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Katie spoke with Opposition Leader Lia Finochiarro · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: And we know that right now. Lea Fanocchiaro, the opposition leader,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: joins us on the line. Let me just make sure
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: I've got that line up. Good morning, hang on a second.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Leah, Good morning, Katie.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: I'm here.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: I'm here, just juggling everything here this morning. And well,
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  Speaker 1: we've just heard from Matt Cunningham out there at Howard
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  Speaker 1: Springs from Sky News three absconders out of the Center
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  Speaker 1: for National Resilience. At this point in time, we don't
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  Speaker 1: know whether they are or are not COVID positive. About
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  Speaker 1: four forty this morning, it was reported that they'd scaled
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  Speaker 1: the fence and fled the area.
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  Speaker 2: How shameful is it that between four forty and now
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  Speaker 2: not no territory and has heard from Michael Garner or
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  Speaker 2: Natasha Files or any front from the Labor government about
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  Speaker 2: what is going on either the same people or are
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  Speaker 2: happy to stand up in front of the flags and
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  Speaker 2: give press conference after press conference when COVID is going
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  Speaker 2: their way. But we've seen in an absconding a person abscone.
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  Speaker 2: Last week, we saw the Health Minister blame it on
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  Speaker 2: the storm. Now we've got members people who were in
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  Speaker 2: Howard Springs out presumably on the loose, who knows where
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  Speaker 2: they are, and the Gunner government are nowhere to be seen.
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  Speaker 2: So I think that's pretty appalling form that we haven't
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  Speaker 2: got better communication out of government on what the status
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  Speaker 2: is today.
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  Speaker 1: Well, what we know right now is that police and
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  Speaker 1: staff at that center are currently confirming the identity of
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  Speaker 1: these people who've escaped prior to releasing further information. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: is that fair enough that they actually wait until they've
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  Speaker 1: got the ride info before they go out and speak
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  Speaker 1: to the media.
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  Speaker 2: I think the Gunner government should have come out and
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  Speaker 2: laid people's concerns. They should have thanked police, asked Territorians
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  Speaker 2: to cooperate with police who are out there trying in
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  Speaker 2: very difficult circumstances to undertake the roadblog. They should have
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  Speaker 2: let people know how many people had ascondered. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: it's just completely typical of the Gunner government to bury
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  Speaker 2: their head in the stem when it comes to bad news.
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  Speaker 2: And I just want to thank our police who are
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  Speaker 2: out there this morning, and everyone who obviously probably ran
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  Speaker 2: late for work and all those other things. You know,
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  Speaker 2: it's a very difficult situation. But what remains is that
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  Speaker 2: there are three people from that quarantine facility on the loose,
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  Speaker 2: and you know, are you worried that it doesn't result
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  Speaker 2: in a major outbreak, Leah?
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  Speaker 1: Are you concerned that these three people could actually have
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  Speaker 1: COVID and we're not aware of it at this point? Well,
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  Speaker 1: of course.
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  Speaker 2: It's always a concern. I mean, you know, of course,
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  Speaker 2: we had that person abscone last week. Unfortunately they weren't.
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  Speaker 2: We don't have any real information about the three people
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  Speaker 2: who are out today, so time will tell them and
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  Speaker 2: hopefully it all works out. But ultimately it raises big
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  Speaker 2: questions about what is going on within that facility. Why,
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  Speaker 2: all of a sudden are people able to abscond. Has
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  Speaker 2: the government made any changes to how that facility operates,
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  Speaker 2: And there's a lot of question marks around why this
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  Speaker 2: has happened, Lea.
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  Speaker 1: Somebody has suggested on the three sixty text line this
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  Speaker 1: morning that I need to electrify the fence. Is that
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  Speaker 1: something that we should be doing out there?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know, I don't know the rules around that,
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  Speaker 2: but certainly, you know, it raises questions. Of course, our
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  Speaker 2: police are under a huge demand. We have had police
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  Speaker 2: being drawn from all over the territory to deal with
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  Speaker 2: the lockouts and lockdowns that we have had and continue
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  Speaker 2: to have, and of course you know, police attrition is
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  Speaker 2: at a rate that we can't even replace, So I've
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  Speaker 2: got no doubt that there's an enormous strain on the system.
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  Speaker 2: I know that we've recruited Australian Federal Police to come
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  Speaker 2: and help support the territory in running that quarantine facility,
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  Speaker 2: but you know it's not good enough and we can't
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  Speaker 2: see people absconding from that facility. So the Gunner government
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  Speaker 2: need to explain how this has happened and what they're
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  Speaker 2: doing to better support our police and our health professionals
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  Speaker 2: who are out there every day trying to contain COVID
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  Speaker 2: to that facility.
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  Speaker 1: Well, Leah, we know that this is a big concern.
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  Speaker 1: We here on three sixty will make sure that we
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  Speaker 1: keep our listeners up to date with any of that
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  Speaker 1: information as it comes to hand. But I do want
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: to go across and talk about the situation in Parliament.
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  Speaker 1: We know that legislation around abortion passed through Parliament last night.
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  Speaker 1: There were some really impassioned speetures, including one from the
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  Speaker 1: Opposition spokesperson for Health Bill Yan, who revealed his own
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  Speaker 1: choice not to abort their unborn daughter twenty five years ago.
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  Speaker 1: I know that several MLAs did express concern about allowing
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  Speaker 1: abortions beyond twenty four weeks. The legislation did pass, Lea.
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  Speaker 1: Did the COLP members support it in the end.
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  Speaker 2: So the legislation did pass. It didn't include to a division,
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  Speaker 2: so people's vote wasn't recorded. But ultimately the legislation has
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  Speaker 2: passed that will come into effect. Certainly, Mary Claire Boothy
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  Speaker 2: made it very clear our Member for Brennan, she made
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  Speaker 2: it very clear that she did not support the bill
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  Speaker 2: in its current form. Members of Parliament spoke to that
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  Speaker 2: same effect. But ultimately we spent a lot of time
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  Speaker 2: going through the bill in some detail to ask the
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  Speaker 2: questions of the Health Minister that people who did have
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  Speaker 2: concerns were asking us.
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  Speaker 1: Well, and I know that you know that obviously that
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  Speaker 1: legislation passed. There was a lot of other things discussed
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  Speaker 1: yesterday in Parliament as well, though during question time you'd
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  Speaker 1: really taken the opportunity to try to drill down on
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  Speaker 1: the Government over their proposed public service pay bonus. Leah,
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  Speaker 1: what exactly is your concern here? Do you feel as
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  Speaker 1: though those public servants should just be getting an increase
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  Speaker 1: to their salaries so that it's not a bonus, it's
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  Speaker 1: something that they should be receiving each and every year.
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  Speaker 1: What do you think needs to happen.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, we've firmly been of the view that the plan
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  Speaker 2: for budget repair, I mean tax payer is paid for.
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  Speaker 2: And the Gunner government commissioned a plan for budget repair
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  Speaker 2: that was in twenty nineteen, and that plan clearly that
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  Speaker 2: it's fair and reasonable for the public service to get
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  Speaker 2: a one thousand dollars a year pay rise. That way,
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  Speaker 2: it limits that wages growth but also ensures that there
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  Speaker 2: is wages growth. Now the Gunner government has come out
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  Speaker 2: and backflipped on that recommendation of the plan for budget repair.
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  Speaker 2: They've now come out with some extremely expensive bonuses scheme.
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  Speaker 2: We're calling it the bogus bonus because of course it's
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  Speaker 2: a four year pay freeze by another name. The Gunner
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  Speaker 2: government hasn't come out and explained the financial modeling of
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  Speaker 2: how they're going to afford that, and of course what
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  Speaker 2: we're saying is that public servants can't take a promise
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  Speaker 2: of a bonus to the bank and secure their mortgage,
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  Speaker 2: whereas real wages growth gives them that security and their
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  Speaker 2: employment to be able to make plans for their life
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  Speaker 2: and have that certainty.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, ultimately, though we are still talking, my understanding
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  Speaker 1: is that we are still talking about public servants receiving
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  Speaker 1: ten thousand extra dollars over that four year period, no
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  Speaker 1: matter what job they are in. Now, I certainly understand
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  Speaker 1: what you're saying, that you know that they do deserve
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  Speaker 1: or that they you know that they should have the
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  Speaker 1: opportunity where they've got that surety within their jobs. And
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  Speaker 1: I get that if you're in the public service right now,
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  Speaker 1: you'd be thinking to yourself, well, why shouldn't we receive
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  Speaker 1: that increase each and every year, and why should we
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  Speaker 1: take it as a ten thousand dollars you know, lump
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  Speaker 1: sum or some which is a bonus. But for a
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  Speaker 1: lot of people listening this morning that work in private enterprise,
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  Speaker 1: they will be thinking to themselves, why is the taxpayer
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  Speaker 1: footing this? No matter how you bundle it up.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the distinction is we absolutely agree that
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  Speaker 2: the private sector, many people will not be getting a
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  Speaker 2: bonus or a pay right. And this is the problem
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  Speaker 2: with Michael Gunner's inability to grow our economy is terrible
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  Speaker 2: economic management, and we have the worst performing economy in
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  Speaker 2: the nation for twelve consecutive quarters. That aside that, there
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  Speaker 2: is an EBA negotiation for the public service. So the
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  Speaker 2: question is what are we going to do about that.
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  Speaker 2: Michael Gunner is saying, here, we'll give you ten thousand
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  Speaker 2: dollars cash, take that away and go and spend it
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  Speaker 2: on Christmas presents. We're saying that that is where has
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  Speaker 2: that come from? How much is that going to cost?
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  Speaker 2: That is unreasonable, and it's unreasonable for a number of reasons.
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  Speaker 2: First because it's bloody expensive.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, but then then a lot of people listening we're thinking, well,
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  Speaker 1: a lot of people listening though, will be thinking to themselves, well,
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  Speaker 1: the colp is, you know, is hedging their bets. They're
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  Speaker 1: sort of having it both ways. We're trying to have
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  Speaker 1: it both ways here where they're saying that the public
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  Speaker 1: service should still get a pay rise, but you don't
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  Speaker 1: like what the government is proposing.
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  Speaker 2: Well, the government aren't proposing a pay ride. They want
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  Speaker 2: to be really clear in the distinction. We are proposing
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  Speaker 2: a one thousand dollars a year payride. So that means
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  Speaker 2: this year public servants will get one thousand dollars added
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  Speaker 2: to their salary. Next year they'll get another one thousand dollars,
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  Speaker 2: and on and on that go. What Michael Gunner is
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  Speaker 2: proposing is frozen paint. So the pay level stays the
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  Speaker 2: same four years. But at Christmas he will give people
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  Speaker 2: four thousand dollars, so four times the amount that we're proposing.
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  Speaker 2: Next year will give them two thousand dollars, a year
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  Speaker 2: after that two thousand dollars, and the year after that
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  Speaker 2: two thousand dollars. We're saying that's come from nowhere. It
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  Speaker 2: doesn't follow the plan for budget repair, it doesn't deal
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  Speaker 2: with our a spiraling budget, and it doesn't give security.
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  Speaker 2: So and Michael Gunner's scheme everyone losing.
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  Speaker 1: So what's the difference between in terms of the financials.
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  Speaker 1: How much is what you're proposing going to cost the
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  Speaker 1: taxpayer and how much is what the government's proposing going
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  Speaker 1: to cost the tax payer.
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  Speaker 2: In our calculations, and we've been rejected briefings from the
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  Speaker 2: Gunner government which is absolutely appalling, both from the Commissioner
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  Speaker 2: for Public Employment and from the under Treasure, which just
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  Speaker 2: shows you how open and transparent this government wants to be.
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  Speaker 2: But our figures clearly show that there's about one hundred
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  Speaker 2: million dollar difference between our proposal and Gunner's proposal, and
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  Speaker 2: our proposal is about one hundred million dollars cheaper but
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  Speaker 2: gives greater certainty to the public service. And the unions
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  Speaker 2: have even come out and said that this bonus is
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  Speaker 2: nothing more than a bribe.
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  Speaker 1: All right, let's move along, because there is something else
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  Speaker 1: I want to ask about this morning, and we're running
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  Speaker 1: out of time, but I do want to ask. I
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  Speaker 1: know that yesterday on air, we spoke about a report
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  Speaker 1: by the ABC which outline tougher bail laws have triggered
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  Speaker 1: a surge in young people being held in detention in
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  Speaker 1: the Northern Territory, including the first ten year old to
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  Speaker 1: be held at john Dale Facility since that twenty seventeen
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  Speaker 1: Royal Commission into Youth Detention. Now, Leah, what do you
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  Speaker 1: think that these changes to the bail laws? Say? I mean,
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  Speaker 1: we understand that this data which has been obtained by
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  Speaker 1: the ABC shows almost sixty young people per day have
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  Speaker 1: been detained in Darwin and Alla Springs during November, which
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  Speaker 1: is almost double the daily figure from six months ago.
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  Speaker 1: But what do these numbers indicate to you.
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  Speaker 2: Do you know what they show me, Katie that even
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  Speaker 2: with these weak bow laws that the Gunner government have created,
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  Speaker 2: we've got more use than ever in youth detention, which
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  Speaker 2: means there are more use than ever committing crimes because
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  Speaker 2: imagine the volume of young people who are not going
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  Speaker 2: to john Dale who are committing hideous crimes regularly across
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  Speaker 2: the territory. And I just think this show the total
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  Speaker 2: failure of the Gunner government to be able to deal
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  Speaker 2: with this issue. And it goes to the core of
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  Speaker 2: their weak approach right from the start, where they've watered
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  Speaker 2: down Bower laws, warded down youth justice laws, disempowered our
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  Speaker 2: police and of course the thirty five million dollar payout
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  Speaker 2: to use criminals being the biggest insult to victims and
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  Speaker 2: territoriums Now.
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  Speaker 1: One of the things though, that youth advocates are saying
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  Speaker 1: is that we shouldn't have children as young as ten
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  Speaker 1: being locked up in john Dale. They are saying that
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  Speaker 1: we need to raise that age of criminal responsibility. I
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  Speaker 1: understand the Chief Minister Michael Gonna confirm yesterday on ABC
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  Speaker 1: Radio that yep, they're going to raise it. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: I been saying that for quite some time. But the
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  Speaker 1: reality is here, we've got ten year olds who are
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  Speaker 1: out on the street doing the wrong thing. Where are
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  Speaker 1: they going to go if they're not going into detention?
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  Speaker 1: And I certainly don't think that ten year olds should
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  Speaker 1: be going into detention, but we've got an issue where
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  Speaker 1: they clearly don't have somewhere else to be.
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  Speaker 2: It means they'll be back out on the street committing
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  Speaker 2: more crimes. Katie, we absolutely will not support raising the
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  Speaker 2: criminal age of responsibility and you're right, no ten year
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  Speaker 2: old should be in prison. But if there is a
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  Speaker 2: ten year old in prison, it means they have done
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  Speaker 2: a long, severe string of offending. So the bigger question
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  Speaker 2: there is how does a ten year old get to
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  Speaker 2: the point where they are able to commit that many
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  Speaker 2: crimes that they end up in a correctional facility. And
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  Speaker 2: this is where there is a huge problem with territory
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  Speaker 2: families being in control of the care and protection of
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  Speaker 2: children and of youth justice, which is why if I
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  Speaker 2: was Chief Minister Katie, we would be separating those out
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  Speaker 2: because it is failing territories, it's failing victims, and it's
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  Speaker 2: failing to use themselves well.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: Lea Finocchiaro, the opposition leader. We are going to have
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  Speaker 1: to leave it there. Thanks so much for having a
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: chat with us this morning.
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  Speaker 2: Take care everyone.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Thank you.