Latest / Yaron Brook Show / Conversation with Agustina Vergara Cid -- Milei & Argentina; Immigration | Yaron Brook Show

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Conversation with Agustina Vergara Cid -- Milei & Argentina; Immigration | Yaron Brook Show · Yaron Brook Show

0:02
Speaker 1: A lot of food of the metals, national elements, and
0:09
Speaker 1: an individual wats.
0:14
Speaker 2: This is?
0:19
Speaker 3: All right? Everybody, Welcome to your one book show on
0:22
Speaker 3: this Monday.
0:24
Speaker 1: I am really, really, really happy to have Augustina with me.
0:31
Speaker 3: What's your official title of the institute these days?
0:35
Speaker 2: These days simon Managing editor and associate fellow.
0:39
Speaker 1: All right, managing editor and associated editor at the inn
0:42
Speaker 1: Land Institute, and really how the Institute's preeminent writer on
0:47
Speaker 1: issues related to immigration. She has a regular column basically
0:51
Speaker 1: in the Orange County Register and uh is through that
0:55
Speaker 1: carried in a bunch of different newspapers around the country.
0:58
Speaker 3: I guess it's it's it's sometimes syndicates.
1:01
Speaker 1: And in addition all that, she's from Argentina, maybe the
1:06
Speaker 1: most exciting country in the world right now, at least
1:08
Speaker 1: in terms of good things happening. There's a lot of
1:10
Speaker 1: exciting places where bad things are happening, but Argentina seems
1:13
Speaker 1: to be one where good things are happening.
1:16
Speaker 3: So I want to start there. I want to start with.
1:21
Speaker 1: I mean, you grew up in Argentina and you came
1:22
Speaker 1: to the US as an adult. She experienced Argentina. You
1:26
Speaker 1: know the culture, you know the country, you know how
1:29
Speaker 1: people live in people's attitudes, and you visit now you've
1:34
Speaker 1: actually still got family there and you have still have
1:37
Speaker 1: quite a few connections in Argentina. What is the difference.
1:41
Speaker 1: What's it like since me Lea has come? Can you
1:45
Speaker 1: tell you know when you visit there that something has changed?
1:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, first, thank you so much for having me
1:53
Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. Yeah, So since Mila are elected,
1:57
Speaker 2: there's been a change. So essentially the first things first,
2:01
Speaker 2: it's not like Guargentina turned prophray market overnight when he
2:04
Speaker 2: was elected. I think in a natural what essentially happened
2:08
Speaker 2: was people were seeing what Venezuela works like, and they
2:12
Speaker 2: were seeing that if we continued with the Kisheners, with
2:14
Speaker 2: the left, with the parentists, we were going to end
2:17
Speaker 2: up there. In fact, the Kirshner's were big allies of
2:20
Speaker 2: Chaves back then, back a few years ago, and of
2:23
Speaker 2: Maduro in more recent years. So they essentially just went
2:27
Speaker 2: for the alternative but was most radical, but most radically
2:30
Speaker 2: opposed and different different from that from that from that option.
2:36
Speaker 2: So that's more things went into a But that's essentially
2:40
Speaker 2: I think part of it. So that's important because when you.
2:45
Speaker 2: I was in Argentina November. I'm going again in a
2:48
Speaker 2: few weeks. And part of what has happened is that
2:53
Speaker 2: you see, I see the economy recovering. And I talked
2:57
Speaker 2: to a lot of people there. I know a lot
2:59
Speaker 2: of people that have been businesses from you know, a
3:01
Speaker 2: construction company CEO to you know, people who have like
3:05
Speaker 2: video producers and who have like small businesses, and what
3:09
Speaker 2: they see is like, yeah, things are are really hard
3:12
Speaker 2: still because it's not easy to recover from, you know,
3:16
Speaker 2: decades of misery that Argentina and like status controls and
3:22
Speaker 2: control of the economy. But it is at least now
3:25
Speaker 2: it is a predictable economy, which means that yes, things
3:30
Speaker 2: are expensive for several reasons and things are still adjusting,
3:33
Speaker 2: but at least you know, you know the price of goods,
3:36
Speaker 2: what things are gonna cost tomorrow, what they're gonna cost
3:39
Speaker 2: in a week, but they're gonna cost in a month.
3:41
Speaker 2: So that is a big deal and a lot of
3:44
Speaker 2: people are supported of that, and they're willing to put
3:46
Speaker 2: up with, you know, this period of time of adjustment
3:48
Speaker 2: until things really really get back to normal. But there
3:52
Speaker 2: is also a lot of a lot of resistance from
3:57
Speaker 2: certain sectors because this is a country where people who
4:02
Speaker 2: basically most people live in there, grew up in a
4:04
Speaker 2: very very stated system, with the government telling them what
4:08
Speaker 2: they should do, how much grocery items cost. So there's
4:13
Speaker 2: a lot of resistance to what's going on because now
4:16
Speaker 2: they are responsible, they're starting to be more responsible for
4:19
Speaker 2: their own life essentially, and so and milais in the
4:23
Speaker 2: economy economically challenging a lot of the assumptions that people had,
4:27
Speaker 2: So that's why you see some of the protests and
4:29
Speaker 2: things like that. But honestly, I think those are mostly
4:33
Speaker 2: more like organized groups from the patterness and the left
4:36
Speaker 2: that are causing that trouble.
4:39
Speaker 1: And so Millie one, I mean, they did very well
4:43
Speaker 1: in the parliamentary election, and to some extent, I think
4:46
Speaker 1: people were surprised.
4:47
Speaker 3: Were you surprised that how well that went?
4:51
Speaker 2: I was because in September Argentina had local all elections
5:00
Speaker 2: in Buenos Aires and Milay did like Milay's party did poorly.
5:05
Speaker 2: So I mean, I honestly did not know what you
5:08
Speaker 2: think because that surprised me back in September and I thought,
5:12
Speaker 2: I I can't believe this is actually how people are
5:17
Speaker 2: reacting to his measures, but also was Buenosiders, which has
5:21
Speaker 2: always been not the capital, but the rest and people.
5:29
Speaker 2: There's a lot of parentism there. Paranism is very active there,
5:32
Speaker 2: so they have a lot of influence. So I thought
5:34
Speaker 2: there was a very bad sign to what was going
5:36
Speaker 2: to happen in the in the in the mid terms.
5:40
Speaker 2: But it turns out that the midterms obviously were federal elections,
5:44
Speaker 2: and he ended up doing remarkably well. It wasn't the
5:48
Speaker 2: absolute best case scenario, but pretty close. So it sort
5:54
Speaker 2: of surprised me because of the previous election. But then
5:58
Speaker 2: they all I mean, I don't have evidence that there
6:01
Speaker 2: was fraud before, like in September in Buenos Aires. I
6:04
Speaker 2: wouldn't claim that, but it's interesting that the results in
6:07
Speaker 2: the same province were much more favorable to Melae in
6:09
Speaker 2: the federal elections or they change the voting system to
6:13
Speaker 2: a different paper valid so that was an interesting fact.
6:20
Speaker 2: I think some people are looking into that, but honestly,
6:24
Speaker 2: I think I think people are really willing to go
6:29
Speaker 2: the distance with Milae and truly give him the four
6:31
Speaker 2: years to see how if he can turn things around.
6:34
Speaker 2: And I think most people understand that two years weren't enough,
6:37
Speaker 2: so they voted for him.
6:39
Speaker 1: And in the streets of Montasius, is there a different vibe.
6:41
Speaker 1: I mean, do you do you have a sense of
6:44
Speaker 1: people is a different day on the ground.
6:49
Speaker 2: It is. There's so the welfare state with the parentess,
6:54
Speaker 2: with the cover the Buenos Aires province government is it's huge.
7:01
Speaker 2: There's so many people receiving welfare and you know, in
7:04
Speaker 2: exchange for votes and whatnot, and there is there's so
7:08
Speaker 2: many government employees. I'm pretty sure that in the province
7:14
Speaker 2: of whats Aires the state government is probably the biggest
7:20
Speaker 2: employer there or pretty close. So a lot of people
7:24
Speaker 2: have a lot to lose if the parents go away.
7:26
Speaker 2: So it is a little bit different. But even then,
7:30
Speaker 2: I think because the life that they're living in many
7:34
Speaker 2: areas in Montos Aires is truly not a way to live.
7:37
Speaker 2: It's extremely unsafe. But like you literally go out, you know,
7:41
Speaker 2: go out to work in the morning and you don't
7:43
Speaker 2: know if you'll come back, Like you have to have
7:46
Speaker 2: any feel like a like a contingency plan in case
7:49
Speaker 2: someone literally shoots you. So it's no way to live.
7:53
Speaker 2: It's extremely unsafe and it's just constant mystery. There's it's
7:57
Speaker 2: just hard to progress. People you know, end up going
8:01
Speaker 2: to the capital city to progress and be able to
8:05
Speaker 2: pursue more ambitious because it's impossible to do it in
8:07
Speaker 2: the problems of Buenos Aires for the most part. So
8:10
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people live are getting just
8:12
Speaker 2: tired of that and want to see if there's an
8:15
Speaker 2: alternative to that.
8:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean when I was in Buenos Aires last time,
8:18
Speaker 1: which is about I don't know, a year and something ago,
8:22
Speaker 1: I like to talk to the uber drivers because I
8:26
Speaker 1: think you get a sense of what's going on among
8:29
Speaker 1: the public. And in London I always talk to taxi drivers.
8:32
Speaker 1: You get a real sense of what do we all
8:34
Speaker 1: kind of working class Brits think. And Uba drivers were
8:39
Speaker 1: all positive about me Lay, they were all enthusiastic and
8:42
Speaker 1: excited about him, and it was really it was hotening
8:47
Speaker 1: and exciting to see, what is your assessment so far
8:52
Speaker 1: of Melas? That is, how much has he done? What
8:56
Speaker 1: do you think he still has to do in the
8:58
Speaker 1: four years that he has this round in order to
9:02
Speaker 1: win re election, in order to really put Argentina on
9:05
Speaker 1: a path to prosperity.
9:08
Speaker 2: So honestly, what he has to do is just be normal,
9:13
Speaker 2: which is because we like a normal as in like
9:16
Speaker 2: acent a decent leader who won't try all the bs
9:22
Speaker 2: and who won't try to trample over the rights of
9:25
Speaker 2: Argentinians like the Currishner state for so long, which is
9:28
Speaker 2: I understand high power for a politician, but honestly, in
9:34
Speaker 2: I think the most important thing what Argentinians care about
9:37
Speaker 2: is the economy. That's it, because that is really driving
9:41
Speaker 2: everything else. Argentina has two main issues, the economy and
9:45
Speaker 2: then it's really unsafe, and part of the reason why
9:49
Speaker 2: it's unsafe is because of the economy. So the economy
9:51
Speaker 2: is truly the key to unlog prosperity for everybody obviously,
9:55
Speaker 2: and freedom economic freedom. And I think honestly he's been
9:59
Speaker 2: doing a really good job in the economy. My assessment
10:03
Speaker 2: of him is positive in terms of his economic agenda.
10:07
Speaker 2: I support most of the things he's done. The most
10:11
Speaker 2: recent news is, for example, the labor reform, which is
10:16
Speaker 2: so so long overdue, and it's going to be huge
10:20
Speaker 2: because I mean, the Argentina you know, labor system is
10:24
Speaker 2: just really really complicated, and it makes it impossible to
10:30
Speaker 2: hire people, It makes it it makes it extremely honorous
10:33
Speaker 2: for an employer to hire people. It makes it really
10:36
Speaker 2: hard for the employee to negotiate terms with the employer.
10:39
Speaker 2: It's just a disaster and it's holding people back. That's
10:42
Speaker 2: why most people employed Argentina are informal, like meaning black
10:47
Speaker 2: market that they're employing in the black market. That's one
10:51
Speaker 2: thing that he's trying to do. And I believe the
10:54
Speaker 2: reform past the Senate. It needs to go to the
10:57
Speaker 2: Deputies now, so that is going to be big. And
11:02
Speaker 2: also so he's focusing on the economy and safety. One
11:05
Speaker 2: of the recent things he basically ended the picquettis, which
11:10
Speaker 2: is you've seen it, if you've been to Buenos Aires,
11:12
Speaker 2: you've seen it. But people just you know, block the
11:15
Speaker 2: streets and protests and just start hanging out there just
11:18
Speaker 2: protesting whatever. And they it's completely disrupted to everyone else's lives.
11:23
Speaker 2: And that used to be considered like people have a
11:25
Speaker 2: right to do this and to disturb, you know, the
11:29
Speaker 2: public thoroughfare. Milay said no more, and he basically all
11:34
Speaker 2: that ended that practice, at least in Buenos Aires. So
11:38
Speaker 2: it's more respectful generally speaking of the rule of law
11:41
Speaker 2: in that regard. So and now there's a reform to
11:47
Speaker 2: lower the age where minors can be put on trial
11:52
Speaker 2: for a crime, essentially from sixteen to fourteen, because there's
11:56
Speaker 2: a lot of you know, children criminal you know teenagers
12:01
Speaker 2: who you know, get high on drugs essentially and just
12:04
Speaker 2: go ahead and choot people. And he's trying to fix
12:07
Speaker 2: that through that lower in the age. So there's there
12:13
Speaker 2: are several things that he's been doing well in terms
12:15
Speaker 2: of the economy and you know, criminality and safety. My
12:20
Speaker 2: assessment on those two things is generally positive. Now foreign policy,
12:26
Speaker 2: he's he's better for sure than the previous governments from
12:32
Speaker 2: the cushioners. He's trying to allow him to become allies
12:35
Speaker 2: with Western countries and generally you know, free countries versus
12:40
Speaker 2: the cutioners who were like with Russia, China, Venezuela. So
12:44
Speaker 2: that is good. I don't love he's extremely obsequent relationship
12:48
Speaker 2: with Trump. I don't think he needs to do that,
12:51
Speaker 2: and it's going to come to buy to buy him
12:53
Speaker 2: in the future. But generally I approve, and of course
12:56
Speaker 2: he has other things I disapprove of. I he's getting
13:02
Speaker 2: better now, but for a while he really was not
13:06
Speaker 2: the biggest friend of freedom of the press. He would
13:12
Speaker 2: be not just critical but threatening of you know, of
13:18
Speaker 2: the press, which you know the press can be extremely misleading,
13:21
Speaker 2: and you know, we know what it's same as in
13:24
Speaker 2: the United States, but he was coming across as really
13:28
Speaker 2: threatening the press. And then of course he has views
13:32
Speaker 2: an abortion that I don't share. I don't know that
13:35
Speaker 2: in his first term he's going to try to get
13:38
Speaker 2: rid of the right to an abortion. If he does that,
13:41
Speaker 2: he's going to try to do it on a potential
13:43
Speaker 2: second term. And of course I don't I have philosophical
13:47
Speaker 2: differences with him. He's an archo capitalist.
13:50
Speaker 3: I don't know what it means inside his head, but
13:53
Speaker 3: I sort of hates the state. He hates the.
13:56
Speaker 2: State, Yeah, he does. But and there are other things
14:01
Speaker 2: that he does that I, as you know, as kids say,
14:05
Speaker 2: I find really cringe, as in, it's just how you're
14:09
Speaker 2: the president. Can you please behave like the president? But anyway,
14:13
Speaker 2: that does not have a direct impact of policy generally speaking.
14:16
Speaker 2: But yeah, so he is definitely a mixed character. But
14:20
Speaker 2: in the economy, I think he's essentially good for now,
14:25
Speaker 2: so we'll see.
14:26
Speaker 3: So he promised.
14:29
Speaker 1: When he first ran, he promised to dollarise the economy
14:32
Speaker 1: and to get off the pay so any sense of
14:35
Speaker 1: why he hasn't and whether that's not part of his
14:38
Speaker 1: platform for a second term.
14:42
Speaker 2: I don't know why he hasn't. I mean I have
14:46
Speaker 2: heard explanations from his minister, from his ministery minister, Minister
14:51
Speaker 2: of the Economy. I am not clear on exactly the reasons,
14:55
Speaker 2: whilst I'm not an economist, so a lot of that
14:57
Speaker 2: goes over my head, but I do think it is
15:01
Speaker 2: part of the plans. So essentially, now you it's not
15:06
Speaker 2: like you can't have transactions in the US dollars. You can't,
15:11
Speaker 2: like you have a current that you can when you're
15:14
Speaker 2: entering a contract with someone, you can't stipulate that you
15:16
Speaker 2: get paid or like the transaction happens in US dollars.
15:21
Speaker 2: So you can do that which you couldn't do before.
15:23
Speaker 2: So for instance, if you're a landlord and you're renting
15:26
Speaker 2: a property, you can ask for the contract to be
15:30
Speaker 2: such that you get paid instead of in pesos that's
15:33
Speaker 2: the equivalent of in US dollars to the depending on
15:38
Speaker 2: how it's priced that day or that week or whatever.
15:41
Speaker 2: So that you can do which has had, like I understand,
15:45
Speaker 2: a positive positive impact in housing. You can also get
15:50
Speaker 2: like if you sell a house, you can't get paid
15:51
Speaker 2: in US dollars too, because the pesol is just too unstable. Still,
15:57
Speaker 2: even I think the the inflation is still very high
16:01
Speaker 2: and the past was still very well at all. But
16:04
Speaker 2: I don't know more details of to why he has
16:07
Speaker 2: delayed more measures to that effect. I think potentially in
16:14
Speaker 2: his campaign for his second term he might address that.
16:18
Speaker 2: I think it's possible.
16:20
Speaker 1: Okay, a few questions about me lay Let's say, could
16:25
Speaker 1: you compare contrast Milai's actions and rhetoric versus the tea parties?
16:32
Speaker 3: How about the general population's reaction?
16:36
Speaker 1: So any sense of how he does he sound like
16:39
Speaker 1: the tea party used to sound in the US?
16:41
Speaker 2: We're talking about the tea Party, the original Tea.
16:44
Speaker 3: Party or the original Tea Party.
16:46
Speaker 1: Well, no, the Tea Party in the two thousands two
16:50
Speaker 1: thousands look one thing, and I think it applies in
16:55
Speaker 1: broader terms.
16:58
Speaker 2: First of all, I wasn't of a is to understand
17:01
Speaker 2: much of it in the in the two thousands, but
17:04
Speaker 2: I was still in like what primary school or something,
17:08
Speaker 2: so I and I haven't reviewed much of it lately.
17:13
Speaker 2: But one thing that stands out about me lay from
17:18
Speaker 2: any other really politician or political movement is as he's
17:22
Speaker 2: very philosophical, he's flawed, very flawed, and I he he
17:29
Speaker 2: gets things wrong, in my opinion. But he does talk
17:32
Speaker 2: about collectivism, he does talk to some extent about individualism.
17:37
Speaker 2: He does talk about what freedom actually enables and what
17:42
Speaker 2: logs in can help unlock in humanity, and that is
17:47
Speaker 2: and he you know, he actually has done his homework.
17:51
Speaker 2: He has read his authors that he likes to cite,
17:53
Speaker 2: and he's not just name dropping. He actually and I
17:56
Speaker 2: know for a five because if I know people that
17:58
Speaker 2: know him, he has actually read those authors and actually
18:02
Speaker 2: learned from them. So I think his more philosophical view
18:07
Speaker 2: is something that I don't remember seeing in any other politician,
18:12
Speaker 2: not even in the US, which should be the standard
18:15
Speaker 2: for that because we're a country like a philosophical country.
18:18
Speaker 2: So I think that is an important difference from most
18:24
Speaker 2: other politicians aboutical movements.
18:29
Speaker 1: Roman asks, what would it take for me late to
18:32
Speaker 1: become an objectivist?
18:37
Speaker 2: Well, he has read Ironbrand, I'm pretty sure he read Atlas.
18:45
Speaker 2: He I think he read Capitalism The Unknown Ideal. Well,
18:53
Speaker 2: one of the things that he would have to change
18:55
Speaker 2: is he would have to change his inn arch of
18:57
Speaker 2: capitalistic stance, and that might unlock a lot of other things.
19:04
Speaker 1: To give religion, you have to really understand her epistemology
19:08
Speaker 1: and metaphysics and yeah, and uh and and and the ethics.
19:13
Speaker 1: I think he's still got elements of collectivism.
19:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. He has this view, for instance, of
19:20
Speaker 2: business people as which he says business people are moral,
19:25
Speaker 2: they're heroes, which I applaud is amazing. Nobody says that
19:29
Speaker 2: like ever, which is it's great that he's saying it,
19:32
Speaker 2: But he essentially the justification keepers is they are heroes.
19:36
Speaker 2: They're moral because they create so much prosperity for all
19:41
Speaker 2: of us. And that I've heard a lot of coopase.
19:45
Speaker 2: I do criticize him about that, and I get a
19:47
Speaker 2: lot of replies say like, oh my god, that is
19:48
Speaker 2: such a minor difference. It is not because you're embracing
19:54
Speaker 2: sort of altruism, right, and you're embracing collectivism because.
19:57
Speaker 1: A utilitarian he's embracing kind of Arran utilitarianism. Yeah, you
20:01
Speaker 1: have to bury Rothbod very very very deep in his backyard,
20:06
Speaker 1: very deep. And Hope you know both Rothbot and Hope,
20:08
Speaker 1: and I hope he should be easy because Hope hates
20:11
Speaker 1: Malay so constantly is criticizing malaise, so that one.
20:15
Speaker 3: Should be easy. Yeah, I mean, you'd have to choose
20:18
Speaker 3: to become an objective.
20:19
Speaker 1: Is there any way to find out if he's read
20:21
Speaker 1: Free Market Revolution, which I handed to him and he
20:24
Speaker 1: said he would read it, So we have to find
20:27
Speaker 1: out if I.
20:28
Speaker 2: Can try to find out.
20:30
Speaker 3: But see if you can find out. I'm curious.
20:33
Speaker 1: I haven't heard from him, so I assume he did
20:35
Speaker 1: if he read it he didn't like.
20:37
Speaker 3: It, or but he's busy too.
20:42
Speaker 1: All right, Let's see how much Argentinian trade is conducted
20:46
Speaker 1: through crypto.
20:50
Speaker 2: I honestly don't know. I I know that in the
20:56
Speaker 2: last four or five years there's been like a big
20:59
Speaker 2: book movement for crypto and a lot of people are
21:05
Speaker 2: getting involved in crypto and trading in crypto. I don't know.
21:10
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be able to say like how much. Of course,
21:15
Speaker 2: I mean, there's the there's a certain scangal that Relay
21:20
Speaker 2: is involved in with crypto, and we can go into that,
21:25
Speaker 2: but I don't. I'm not entirely sure. I know that,
21:28
Speaker 2: like among younger people, it is a big it is
21:32
Speaker 2: gaining a lot of team it got to Argentina. It
21:37
Speaker 2: got to be like a real big thing in Argentina
21:39
Speaker 2: a little bit later than the US, but I remember,
21:41
Speaker 2: starting like twenty thirteen, people were already talking about I
21:45
Speaker 2: remember SFL chapters in Argentina, you know, kind of like
21:50
Speaker 2: pushing that and having talks about it, and then in
21:53
Speaker 2: the last several years is finally taken off.
21:55
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I mean, I think they usually use
21:59
Speaker 1: what's called stable coins, which is a way basically to
22:02
Speaker 1: transact in dollars without the currency risk. But it's not
22:08
Speaker 1: stable coins are not crypto in the sense of bitcoin
22:12
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Somebody says, I mean, one thing
22:17
Speaker 1: says here, around twenty percent of Argentina is reported using
22:21
Speaker 1: crypto commocy for transactions of some kind. My guess has
22:25
Speaker 1: given bitcoins weakness a lot less today than maybe a
22:29
Speaker 1: few months ago. You don't want to transact in something
22:33
Speaker 1: as volatile as a bitcoin. Let's say that Michael says,
22:39
Speaker 1: is we lay exceeding expectations.
22:42
Speaker 3: How far can he or will he go?
22:47
Speaker 2: I think he is exceeding expectations in terms of the economy.
22:51
Speaker 2: He for instance, the inflation in twenty twenty five was
22:57
Speaker 2: something like thirty one percent I believe or something along
23:02
Speaker 2: those lines, which is extremely high. Right for especially for
23:05
Speaker 2: Americans here, it's like, oh my god, we would be
23:07
Speaker 2: on the streets just burning everything down. But for Argentina
23:12
Speaker 2: it's remarkable. It's the lowest inflation in I think like
23:14
Speaker 2: eighty years or something like that. And nobody thought nobody,
23:19
Speaker 2: I mean, people voted for him as but like all
23:20
Speaker 2: the experts and whatever, almost nobody believed that he was
23:24
Speaker 2: going to be able to begin stabilize in the economy
23:27
Speaker 2: and to obtain inflation. And he's doing it, which is
23:30
Speaker 2: it's crazy, like it's it's in terms of crazy to
23:34
Speaker 2: see this phenomenon happening in Argentina of all places. I
23:38
Speaker 2: never thought i'd see today.
23:40
Speaker 1: The cut government spending, which no other politician anyway in
23:44
Speaker 1: the world actually does. He's actually cut them out of mind,
23:48
Speaker 1: not the growth way, the actual amount of money.
23:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, which yeah, nobody does that like. And part of
23:57
Speaker 2: it is he was he was not willing to compromise
24:02
Speaker 2: on that. He wanted to achieve zero the deficits, which
24:05
Speaker 2: he did pretty shortly after he got elected, and he
24:09
Speaker 2: would not compromise on it. He would say that is
24:13
Speaker 2: one thing, like no matter what. I am not compromising
24:16
Speaker 2: on that because that is absolutely key. And he used
24:19
Speaker 2: to have this saying saying no plata, there's no money,
24:23
Speaker 2: like if people came to him like, oh, we need
24:25
Speaker 2: spending on this and you know, public worlds, no plata
24:28
Speaker 2: and it was just no, like I don't have money,
24:30
Speaker 2: I don't have the money. I cannot make it up.
24:32
Speaker 2: I'm not going to print it like end of story.
24:36
Speaker 2: And I think that is really valuable.
24:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm surprised inflation is not lower.
24:42
Speaker 1: Something's going on there with They're stop printing money somehow,
24:46
Speaker 1: giving inflation as thirty percent.
24:48
Speaker 3: So I'm curious what actually is going on.
24:50
Speaker 1: But haven't I need I need to dig deeper into it.
24:54
Speaker 3: Let's see. Roman asks why did Malay join the Board
24:57
Speaker 3: of Peace?
25:02
Speaker 2: So I don't know. I mean, I think basically the
25:07
Speaker 2: main reason is Milay it wants to be really really
25:12
Speaker 2: good friends with the United States, and he believes that
25:17
Speaker 2: the best way to do that is to basically do
25:20
Speaker 2: almost everything. And I'll say why I said almost but
25:24
Speaker 2: almost anything that Trump wants him to do. And he
25:27
Speaker 2: wants to be really seen as really friendly even in
25:31
Speaker 2: personal terms, even with Trump. He thinks that he is
25:35
Speaker 2: helping him for some reason. I don't know that he
25:38
Speaker 2: actually admires Trump. I actually have reason to believe that
25:41
Speaker 2: he doesn't actually admire Trump or like him very much. So,
25:46
Speaker 2: but he the way that the kid he has the oxete,
25:49
Speaker 2: So he's trying to show Trump that they're friends. Essentially.
25:54
Speaker 2: I think it's a lot of pressure from you know, Trump.
25:57
Speaker 2: I think he waived the fee whatever, however many millions
26:01
Speaker 2: or billions of dollars the entry fee was or something
26:05
Speaker 2: like that. I don't know, Argentina didn't pay that, or
26:08
Speaker 2: maybe the fee was for permanent members. In Argentina won't
26:11
Speaker 2: be a permanent member. I'm not sure, but I think
26:13
Speaker 2: it's mostly just a piecing Trump to be honest.
26:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's right.
26:19
Speaker 1: Was ugoim le bovogt in drugs and Argentina and the Melea.
26:25
Speaker 2: So I think I think Milay so Milai is making
26:33
Speaker 2: a big deal of, you know, ruling out the cartels,
26:37
Speaker 2: because there are a lot of cartel activity, particularly in
26:40
Speaker 2: the Santa Fe, in the province of Santa Fe. And
26:44
Speaker 2: there is also because of the long you know that
26:49
Speaker 2: for a long time the custeners were allied with the
26:51
Speaker 2: with the Maduro regim and the Maduro regime was involved
26:54
Speaker 2: in a lot of drug trafficking and cartel's cartel activity.
26:59
Speaker 2: Also the that the border there's like we have like
27:05
Speaker 2: a it's called Griply Front at the Triple border in Argentina.
27:11
Speaker 3: That was.
27:13
Speaker 2: Just insane, how much drug traffic in human trafficking and
27:18
Speaker 2: whatever happened. So Milay is trying to turn that down.
27:22
Speaker 2: He has been successful in part doing that. And I
27:28
Speaker 2: don't but I don't think that he as a libertarian.
27:32
Speaker 2: I don't think that he personally is in favor of
27:34
Speaker 2: the war on drugs. I think he but I don't
27:38
Speaker 2: know that that he thinks it's something that he should
27:45
Speaker 2: It's a hill he should die one. So I think
27:48
Speaker 2: that's part of it.
27:49
Speaker 1: And he appease as conservative coalition members right, and they
27:55
Speaker 1: would be very opposed to drug gliberalization. So even though
27:58
Speaker 1: he might want it, he couldn't get it. He couldn't
28:01
Speaker 1: get his coalition members. And you are it's not the
28:04
Speaker 1: given the economy, it's not the hill he wants to
28:06
Speaker 1: it's not the battle he wants to fight right now.
28:09
Speaker 2: Yeah. As to Uruguay, I honestly, I I don't know
28:13
Speaker 2: I don't know that they are that much more, that
28:18
Speaker 2: much more liberal, so to speak, than Argentina.
28:22
Speaker 1: They had they had a president who I think the
28:26
Speaker 1: criminalized some drugs and and uh it was very pro
28:30
Speaker 1: drug globalization. And but Uruguay sounds like a pretty cool place.
28:34
Speaker 1: I mean, low taxes, nice beaches, modern city.
28:40
Speaker 3: Have you been there?
28:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, I used to go there almost every summer.
28:45
Speaker 3: Is it as nice as the stories? I've never been,
28:47
Speaker 3: so one of one of the few countries I haven't
28:49
Speaker 3: been to.
28:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's it's it's it's nice. It's smaller, it
28:54
Speaker 2: is like a small Montebello is like a very small wins.
28:58
Speaker 2: It's like a short you know, we jump on a
29:02
Speaker 2: little ship and a few minutes later you're in You're
29:05
Speaker 2: in Monteville and or why. Yeah, it's nice, it is,
29:11
Speaker 2: but it used to be part of Argentina. Like it's
29:14
Speaker 2: basically it's very very similar to Argentina in terms of culture.
29:19
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's nice, but also in Argentina, I mean,
29:25
Speaker 2: I'm not sure that that it is that much more
29:28
Speaker 2: liberal in terms of drugs. So I would have to
29:30
Speaker 2: look into that, but I don't know.
29:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, can you elaborate on how relate threaten the media
29:38
Speaker 1: and why it's not just a show of power to
29:42
Speaker 1: make media to act more responsibly truthfully, or am I naive?
29:46
Speaker 2: Well, a show of power coming from the president is
29:49
Speaker 2: threatening by definition, So I think that's partly what it was.
29:55
Speaker 2: He was extremely still less, but he would show at
29:58
Speaker 2: more more more often. He was extremely frustrated with how
30:05
Speaker 2: the media reported on him, and I, in a sense,
30:09
Speaker 2: I get it, because the media would just make stuff
30:12
Speaker 2: up or like, I understand in terms of you were
30:17
Speaker 2: a precedent, right so, But but sometimes he would even
30:23
Speaker 2: react really badly to really valid criticism, and he would
30:27
Speaker 2: get mad when people who would he would consider more
30:31
Speaker 2: or less ideological allies would criticize him with in good
30:35
Speaker 2: faith saying like, oh, okay, we are aligning in many things,
30:40
Speaker 2: but this thing you're doing this way, I don't agree
30:42
Speaker 2: with that. I think we should do this other way.
30:45
Speaker 2: He would really really dislike that. He would, you know,
30:48
Speaker 2: go off, like he would go on to interviews and
30:50
Speaker 2: just start insulting, naming specific journalists. And you know, if
30:58
Speaker 2: you're just a regular citizen who cares like you can
31:01
Speaker 2: name whoever you want, You can call them names. Sure,
31:04
Speaker 2: I mean it might not be very tasteful or whatever,
31:06
Speaker 2: because he would even use extreme profanity, mean extreme profanity.
31:11
Speaker 2: But when you're the president and you're doing that, you
31:15
Speaker 2: you can't you have you know, the government has the
31:19
Speaker 2: monopoly in the use of force. When you, as a president,
31:23
Speaker 2: are you know, saying that the press shouldn't report on this,
31:27
Speaker 2: they should report on that other thing, then you that's
31:31
Speaker 2: a problem because it's it's it's inherently threatening with the president.
31:35
Speaker 2: That's that sort of thing. And yeah, that's part of me.
31:39
Speaker 2: Lay it's like he and by the way, people reacted
31:43
Speaker 2: very radly to that. That's one of the things that
31:46
Speaker 2: in the elections, like in you know, when they were
31:48
Speaker 2: pulling people. But that's one of the things that really
31:50
Speaker 2: bother most people. And so it has changed some now,
31:55
Speaker 2: but yeah, and it is just it was really not
32:00
Speaker 2: good and really really warrying at one point. Again, he's
32:05
Speaker 2: getting better now, but we'll see what happens.
32:09
Speaker 3: All right, let's see.
32:13
Speaker 1: Gary says, no high plata plata. Yeah, there's no more
32:18
Speaker 1: sounds like a great presidential slogan, almost as good as headlines.
32:24
Speaker 1: They ain't no such thing as a free launch. That's
32:27
Speaker 1: not even headlines that's uh Friedman, I thought, thank you, Gary.
32:31
Speaker 1: Let's see Roman asks is Patagonia developing through liberalization? Are
32:37
Speaker 1: you seeing any changes in Patagonia?
32:41
Speaker 2: So I know that there is some. So part of
32:47
Speaker 2: what Mille is trying to do is open Argentina to
32:49
Speaker 2: foreign investment, which the previous governing was extremely nationalist. They
32:54
Speaker 2: wouldn't allow that. And part of it is oil, and
32:57
Speaker 2: there's quite a bit of oil in that area. And
32:59
Speaker 2: I know that there are some conversations really is having
33:02
Speaker 2: or I'm not sure how developed and those plants are,
33:08
Speaker 2: but I know that there are plans for investments in
33:11
Speaker 2: Paragonia along those lines. But also, honestly, Argentina is such
33:15
Speaker 2: a beautiful country every time I go, because I now
33:18
Speaker 2: live here and I live in California, so it's extremely beautiful.
33:22
Speaker 2: But even when I go and I go to places,
33:25
Speaker 2: you know, like the Ciareras in Korada where my family is,
33:29
Speaker 2: it's like, WHOA, I sort of forgot how beautiful this is.
33:32
Speaker 2: And it's there's so much potential that is untapped because
33:37
Speaker 2: the economy has been so close for so long, and
33:39
Speaker 2: Patagonia is one of those areas where there's so much
33:43
Speaker 2: potential for investment, even the ski resorts, which are in
33:47
Speaker 2: incredible areas, but they're underdeveloped there. Pretty it's like you're
33:51
Speaker 2: skin in the seventies basically or the eighties eighties, because
33:55
Speaker 2: there has been no investment. So there's a ton of
33:58
Speaker 2: potential there, and I think that it's only a matter
34:01
Speaker 2: of time until there's way more investment there in most areas.
34:05
Speaker 3: What what What area has the shale oil?
34:08
Speaker 1: Because I think I think Argentina has the second largest
34:11
Speaker 1: reserves in the world.
34:14
Speaker 3: A fracking, you know for fracking. Where's that? Where is that?
34:20
Speaker 2: Uh? That is uh true? Let me let me look
34:23
Speaker 2: it up now, can Yeah, in the.
34:31
Speaker 3: Patagonia in Patagony area.
34:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, so sort of south west, the closer to Chile.
34:41
Speaker 1: Close to mountains. Okay, you mentioned skiing. Jacob asks, how
34:46
Speaker 1: is skiing in Argentina. Who's ski is there? Is it
34:50
Speaker 1: only the ultra rich? Lots of Argentinians on visas in
34:54
Speaker 1: US ski resorts, So I'm curious.
34:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, so skiing, Well, I'll say I snow work first
35:02
Speaker 2: of all, but I have been. I have snowhork in
35:04
Speaker 2: Las Lenas, which is in Mendoza right at the limit
35:07
Speaker 2: with with with with Chile. Uh it's it's great. It's
35:11
Speaker 2: some of the best places for s kid. It's very
35:16
Speaker 2: open and in that particular area there's no trees, so
35:20
Speaker 2: it's it's very very open. The terrain is incredible, lots
35:25
Speaker 2: of snow generally. And then you have Patagonia, which is
35:29
Speaker 2: more like I would compare it to more similar to
35:32
Speaker 2: like northern California, like Lake Taho that area, but.
35:38
Speaker 3: That motive impossible to get to.
35:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really hard to get to Patagonia, and that's
35:43
Speaker 2: one thing also that should change, uh, and see how
35:46
Speaker 2: we can fix that.
35:47
Speaker 3: Probably they can pave some of the roads, have more.
35:52
Speaker 2: Flights there too, get working in those airboards. But generally
35:57
Speaker 2: people yeah, I mean mostly upper middle class people have
36:04
Speaker 2: access to that because it's it is very expensive.
36:09
Speaker 3: Yeah.
36:09
Speaker 1: My my scariest airplane flight, and I fly a lot,
36:13
Speaker 1: as you know, my scariest airplane flight ever was from
36:18
Speaker 1: Califate to Barrilocchi.
36:21
Speaker 3: Really, I thought I was more than once.
36:25
Speaker 1: We thought we were going to die another Timelinus or Cantenas. Yeah,
36:31
Speaker 1: I can't remember who the airline was, but it was
36:33
Speaker 1: just one thing after that.
36:35
Speaker 3: I'll tell you the story. One day. It was quite
36:37
Speaker 3: an Adventure.
36:40
Speaker 1: Roman says this, Argentina need more ports.
36:49
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't. It's not something that stands
36:53
Speaker 2: out as an immediate need to me. Buenos Aires is
36:58
Speaker 2: the biggest, the biggest area of the poor because it
37:03
Speaker 2: comes from you know, many many years ago, where it's
37:07
Speaker 2: closer to Europe. It's basically the closest area ma Marethime
37:12
Speaker 2: area to Europe. I don't think so. I don't think
37:18
Speaker 2: it's not something that stands out it's needing attention.
37:22
Speaker 3: But maybe right how is trade volume with China versus
37:26
Speaker 3: the West? Changing? Do you know Argentina's trade with China?
37:31
Speaker 2: No, I don't. I haven't looked into this for a while.
37:36
Speaker 2: I know that essentially Milay started off saying that we
37:39
Speaker 2: will not trade with basically saying we won't trade with China,
37:43
Speaker 2: basically like being very hostile to non free countries. And
37:48
Speaker 2: then they he kind of changed his tune quite a bit.
37:51
Speaker 2: What I'll say is day to day part of what
37:55
Speaker 2: happened is it used to be so imports used to be. Also,
38:00
Speaker 2: if you want to buy on Amazon or on you know,
38:04
Speaker 2: Shane or one of these Chinese manufacturers or sellers or whatever,
38:09
Speaker 2: you wouldn't be able to do that for many reasons,
38:11
Speaker 2: but some of the important It was extremely expensive to import.
38:15
Speaker 2: If you wanted to buy I don't know, a pair
38:17
Speaker 2: of headphones, it was really hard to do and it
38:20
Speaker 2: would end up costing a lot. Now that is not
38:22
Speaker 2: the case anymore. So a lot of people are buying
38:24
Speaker 2: on these platforms from China and that has for sure
38:30
Speaker 2: increased a lot.
38:34
Speaker 3: All right, I think that's our last me lay question.
38:37
Speaker 3: Let's shift to talk about immigration, the fun topic.
38:45
Speaker 1: So you know, a lot has happened since I think
38:47
Speaker 1: we talked last about immigration, and of course the big
38:50
Speaker 1: change is is what's been happening with Ice over the
38:54
Speaker 1: last over the last few months. So give us maybe
38:59
Speaker 1: a uss of kind of the state of immigration enforcement
39:04
Speaker 1: right now and how you evaluate it.
39:09
Speaker 2: Well. I think that immigration enforcement is following the playbook
39:16
Speaker 2: set up by Obama. Essentially a lot of the things
39:22
Speaker 2: that we're seeing, not everything, because things are going further now,
39:26
Speaker 2: but a lot of what we're seeing is what happened
39:28
Speaker 2: during the Obama administration. Who he said this, he set
39:32
Speaker 2: the tone I think for immigration enforcement. And there are
39:37
Speaker 2: many important differences between what Trump is doing now and
39:40
Speaker 2: Trump's attitude towards in immigration enforcement very different from Obama's
39:45
Speaker 2: atitude towards IMIGGI enforcement. We can talk about that, but essentially,
39:49
Speaker 2: I think that Trump is taking this precedent and everything
39:54
Speaker 2: that immigration laws technically allowed him to do and just
39:58
Speaker 2: running with it. But he's going further and further into
40:02
Speaker 2: like actually breaking the law. And I remember I had
40:06
Speaker 2: I gave a talk about this precisely this last June,
40:11
Speaker 2: I think it was, and at that point, most things
40:15
Speaker 2: he was doing, not everything, but most things were essentially
40:19
Speaker 2: what the law allowed, just to the extreme. Now he's
40:23
Speaker 2: just pushing it beyond what the law allows.
40:27
Speaker 1: Give us some examples of him pushing beyond what the
40:30
Speaker 1: law allows.
40:32
Speaker 2: So, for instance, in Minnesota, there were a lot of
40:35
Speaker 2: people who were detained who had asylum appending asylum applications,
40:42
Speaker 2: who were or or actually I think some of them
40:44
Speaker 2: who already had asylum. He he rounded up a lot
40:49
Speaker 2: of these people, shipped them to Texas for and you know,
40:53
Speaker 2: to revet them allegedly and then just let them go
40:58
Speaker 2: like okay, just you're fine, go, but you you were
41:01
Speaker 2: that they were detained for days and that is just
41:04
Speaker 2: not what what are we doing? Also, I think obviously
41:10
Speaker 2: the detainment of you citizens for exercising the freedom of speech. Technically,
41:18
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, if someone is actually obstructing an investigation
41:23
Speaker 2: and actually getting in the way, technically, I believe they
41:26
Speaker 2: can be detained. But people filming people just observing, I
41:33
Speaker 2: don't think that is the case. But of course they're
41:34
Speaker 2: saying that you're obstructing investigation or or an operation and whatnot,
41:38
Speaker 2: and they're still being detained. So yeah, I it's he's
41:45
Speaker 2: pushing it really far. And not to mention which I
41:47
Speaker 2: think is the most outrageous thing that has happened, which
41:50
Speaker 2: is sending people to say God in Nel Salvador. I
41:55
Speaker 2: think that is not that is well beyond I think
41:57
Speaker 2: any precedent at all in US history, and that is
42:01
Speaker 2: completely new, and that is it's extremely scary, and I
42:04
Speaker 2: can't believe, honestly that not more people have been talking
42:09
Speaker 2: about this, because that is one of the worst things
42:11
Speaker 2: he has done in terms of immigration.
42:13
Speaker 1: Now he did stop that, and it's not doing it
42:15
Speaker 1: again after the court basically ordered it stopped, right.
42:18
Speaker 2: So for now, but we'll see. I mean, remember part
42:26
Speaker 2: of what's still going on, the saga with Abrego Garcia,
42:29
Speaker 2: this guy that was they could they could send him
42:32
Speaker 2: anywhere except to a savagor. Yep. And they sent him
42:36
Speaker 2: to Savador and then they didn't want to bring him back,
42:38
Speaker 2: and then they had to bring him back, and they
42:39
Speaker 2: are still pursuing him and trying to essentially ruin his life.
42:44
Speaker 2: I don't And now a judge, judge last week, I
42:46
Speaker 2: think Thursday, I want to say, ordered the Trump administration
42:51
Speaker 2: to bring back many of the men that were sent
42:53
Speaker 2: to a savar and are now in Venezuela. He ordered
42:57
Speaker 2: them to be returned. I don't know that the Trouble
43:00
Speaker 2: administration will comply with that order. So this saga I
43:03
Speaker 2: think sort of continues.
43:06
Speaker 1: Uh what do you see is kind of where this
43:08
Speaker 1: is heading? Uh the leaving Minneapolis, do you think do
43:15
Speaker 1: you think they're gonna lower their temperature and and moderate
43:19
Speaker 1: to what do you think is next vice?
43:24
Speaker 2: I think ICE is going to go to a different
43:26
Speaker 2: city at some point. Remember they've been sort of a
43:30
Speaker 2: national tour. They were in Los Angeles, they were in Chicago,
43:34
Speaker 2: they were in I forget where they were before Minnesota,
43:39
Speaker 2: but there. Essentially it's a national tour where they go
43:43
Speaker 2: to cities and basically blue cities mostly I think that
43:50
Speaker 2: that's what's going to happen next. I don't know where
43:52
Speaker 2: they will go next. It will really depend on what
43:54
Speaker 2: happens with the temporary protected status of immigrants from different
43:58
Speaker 2: where they are like several asked for as for instance,
44:01
Speaker 2: they were gonna go to I think Ohio at some
44:04
Speaker 2: point because there were TPS was about to be revoked
44:08
Speaker 2: for Haitian immigrants, so they were gonna go there to
44:10
Speaker 2: catch them like literally the next day. So it really
44:15
Speaker 2: depends on what happens in the and that TPS was
44:18
Speaker 2: about to be resented for for higher Haitians and then
44:21
Speaker 2: it just TPS. It's temporary protected status is an immigration
44:27
Speaker 2: status which essentially means that the person is in America
44:32
Speaker 2: because their country of origin is going through a really
44:36
Speaker 2: turbulent time, whether it's a national like a political upheaval
44:40
Speaker 2: or you know, natural catastrophe or something like that, where
44:44
Speaker 2: they cannot they're not safe, they cannot live in the
44:46
Speaker 2: country of origin origin, so they are they can come
44:50
Speaker 2: to the United States and they have temporary protected status,
44:53
Speaker 2: meaning they can be here for a while legally and
44:59
Speaker 2: until all the conditions in their countries improve. So the
45:03
Speaker 2: Trump administration was trying to terminate that for Hashi like
45:07
Speaker 2: they did for Venezuela, and so I believe the plans
45:12
Speaker 2: were for us to go to some of the cities
45:15
Speaker 2: where there are a lot of Asian immigrants and conduct
45:19
Speaker 2: operations there. A judge ended up postponing essentially this, so
45:25
Speaker 2: we we don't know what's going to happen with that,
45:28
Speaker 2: but I do think they're going to continue this. I
45:31
Speaker 2: don't think that much has changed. One thing that was
45:36
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say encouraging, but different was that home and
45:40
Speaker 2: last week when he announced it and in the ending
45:44
Speaker 2: of this operation in Minnesota, he said that there had
45:47
Speaker 2: been some mistakes, which is something that I have never
45:51
Speaker 2: heard this administration admit about anything at all. So that's different.
45:57
Speaker 2: I guess. I wouldn't say it's encouraging, but it's different.
46:00
Speaker 2: I don't think they're going to turn it down because
46:02
Speaker 2: I think that this whole thing is St. Stephen Miller's dream,
46:07
Speaker 2: and I don't think he's going to give up that dream.
46:09
Speaker 2: So as long as St. Stephen Miller is there, this
46:13
Speaker 2: is going to continue.
46:14
Speaker 3: Yeah.
46:14
Speaker 1: And I always thought Homand was one of the worst people,
46:17
Speaker 1: and now compared to everybody else, he seems like a
46:19
Speaker 1: more reasonable guy. That's I think that's how bad things are,
46:23
Speaker 1: is that homand gets to be reasonable.
46:26
Speaker 3: So when people tell you, you know, but they're just following
46:31
Speaker 3: the law, right, they're resting.
46:33
Speaker 1: Illegal immigrants, they were legally here, the deporting them, you know,
46:38
Speaker 1: they shouldn't be here to begin with. What do you
46:41
Speaker 1: say to people about the whole issue of illegal immigration?
46:48
Speaker 2: First of all, I would say, I mean, if these
46:52
Speaker 2: were about illegal immigration, it would look different. But they
46:58
Speaker 2: it's just about immigration. They're also attacking legal immigrants, and
47:02
Speaker 2: I can expand on how that's happening. So it is
47:06
Speaker 2: about immigration. They don't want immigration, period. It's not about
47:10
Speaker 2: being legal illegal they don't. They're trying to even attack
47:13
Speaker 2: natural citizens like you and me. So it's not about
47:18
Speaker 2: illegal immigration. But it is true that illegal immigrants, I mean,
47:22
Speaker 2: if you read the law like illegal immigrants are generally
47:26
Speaker 2: you know, faur geting for deportation, it's true the law
47:31
Speaker 2: is really truly draconian. But it's also true I think
47:36
Speaker 2: that there's a reason why this law has been exercised
47:38
Speaker 2: with so much discretion. Usually where like you had people
47:43
Speaker 2: that had been here for twenty years or forty years.
47:47
Speaker 2: Even I was reading a case earlier today, been here
47:51
Speaker 2: for forty years, working peacefully. They don't have legal status,
47:54
Speaker 2: but they were not deported, and they were checking in
47:59
Speaker 2: with us ICE monthly, going to an ICE office and
48:03
Speaker 2: then like, Hi, I'm here, I'm working. I'm not doing
48:06
Speaker 2: anything wrong, and ICE would essentially it's essentially a discretion issue.
48:11
Speaker 2: Like people who are peaceful, like you were going to
48:13
Speaker 2: let them be here. But I'm not saying it's great
48:15
Speaker 2: because there's no path to legalizing that sort of situation.
48:18
Speaker 2: That's why people don't do it. It's not like people
48:20
Speaker 2: are illegal because they want to, it's because there's no path.
48:25
Speaker 2: So I think what has to become increasingly clear, and
48:30
Speaker 2: I think is that which can be if you want
48:33
Speaker 2: to see this way as silver lining of all of this,
48:36
Speaker 2: is like Americas are confronting what the laws actually are.
48:41
Speaker 2: So I hope it becomes increasingly clear that the law,
48:44
Speaker 2: the laws need to change.
48:47
Speaker 1: So do you think there's any path that law's changing?
48:50
Speaker 1: I mean, are you seeing any shifting in kind of
48:52
Speaker 1: American people's attitude towards that, because there's always been opposition
48:56
Speaker 1: to kind of legalizing the illegals.
49:01
Speaker 2: Yes, but I think that the polls have been showing
49:04
Speaker 2: increasingly the opposite of what I think the Trump administration
49:07
Speaker 2: would want, which is a lot of support for immigration
49:11
Speaker 2: and a lot of support for expanding paths to immigrate
49:16
Speaker 2: here legally and for people who are here legally or
49:20
Speaker 2: ready to get to regularize their situation. I think some
49:24
Speaker 2: people say, Okay, maybe not citizenship, because you know, the
49:27
Speaker 2: left likes to talk about the path to citizenship. Some
49:31
Speaker 2: people say, like, well, maybe not citizenship, but can they
49:35
Speaker 2: get a green card and just leave out in the open,
49:38
Speaker 2: like meaning like not you know, in the shadows as
49:41
Speaker 2: illegal immigrants. I think there's increasing support for that, and
49:46
Speaker 2: I think part of what's happening is, you know, as
49:49
Speaker 2: much as the Trump administration tries to paint immigrants as
49:53
Speaker 2: literal aliens from a different planet who are not human,
49:56
Speaker 2: for like, who are not you know who take call
49:59
Speaker 2: the welfarees so they are mootures. But also they take
50:02
Speaker 2: all the jobs, so they have some you know, some
50:06
Speaker 2: capacity to take all the welfare and take all the
50:09
Speaker 2: jobs and buy all the houses. They are these scapegoats,
50:12
Speaker 2: and they try to humanize them. But people are seeing
50:15
Speaker 2: that the people getting the poor are the neighbors, are
50:19
Speaker 2: their friends, Are the people who work at the store,
50:21
Speaker 2: are the legal immigrants who married an American and went
50:25
Speaker 2: to the Green card interview and got detained and are
50:27
Speaker 2: now have been detained for three months. So people are
50:30
Speaker 2: starting to see that these immigrants and this, you know,
50:34
Speaker 2: these non human entities that the Trump administration is trying
50:39
Speaker 2: to portray them at these evil immigrants, are actually normal
50:43
Speaker 2: people like them. So I think there's a lot of
50:47
Speaker 2: coming to terms with that, and I think the support
50:53
Speaker 2: for more legal immigration and for potentially a path to
50:58
Speaker 2: legalization for legal immigrants, I think it's in.
51:01
Speaker 3: Well, maybe that'll be a good thing that comes out
51:05
Speaker 3: of all of this. We can hope. It's going to
51:07
Speaker 3: be tough.
51:08
Speaker 1: I still see so much hatred out there for immigrants.
51:13
Speaker 1: There's a section of the population that just thinks this
51:16
Speaker 1: is the most important issue in the world.
51:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true, but I don't think it's a large
51:22
Speaker 2: part of the population. I don't think enough to stop
51:25
Speaker 2: potential reform. Now the word is also what is our
51:28
Speaker 2: reform going to look like? Because I've said this many times,
51:31
Speaker 2: but the immigration system does not need to be reformed,
51:35
Speaker 2: It needs to be completely rethought. So to actually be
51:39
Speaker 2: worthy of this country. I don't see that happening anytime soon,
51:44
Speaker 2: but I do hope that, you know, we get reforms
51:46
Speaker 2: that could interest a little bit closer to freedom. But
51:49
Speaker 2: we'll see.
51:50
Speaker 3: So Mari Alyne asks, what are some of the first changes.
51:54
Speaker 1: You would make to US immigration law? Also thank you
51:58
Speaker 1: for the introducing me to the America Immigration Council, and
52:01
Speaker 1: they wonderful work. So what would be some of the
52:03
Speaker 1: first changes you would make.
52:06
Speaker 2: So some of the first changes I would make is
52:09
Speaker 2: I think the best way to well, obviously the border
52:13
Speaker 2: is the border numbers are much better now because obviously,
52:16
Speaker 2: if you turn America into what it is right now,
52:18
Speaker 2: nobody's going to want to come. That's one way to
52:20
Speaker 2: address in you know, immigration, just like the Cuba addressed immigration,
52:26
Speaker 2: they turn into an awful place, so nobody wants to
52:28
Speaker 2: go there. So I'm not saying the America is on
52:32
Speaker 2: park with Cuba, but like if you inflict terror on people,
52:35
Speaker 2: they're not going to want to come here. So one
52:38
Speaker 2: thing I would do in you know, a normal time
52:44
Speaker 2: is expand pathways for the people actually crossing through the border,
52:48
Speaker 2: which people cross through the border because they do not
52:51
Speaker 2: have another way to come here. So expand work visas
52:56
Speaker 2: for the type of workers like non as they call
53:00
Speaker 2: it non skilled unskilled, which I don't like that way
53:04
Speaker 2: of putting it, but that's what it's called unskilled immigration.
53:07
Speaker 2: So your gardener can come here, your waiter can come here,
53:12
Speaker 2: your chef can come here, you know, and just they
53:15
Speaker 2: don't have a lot, they don't have a university degree
53:18
Speaker 2: or they don't have any specialization like that, but so
53:20
Speaker 2: they can come here legally. And there are many ways where,
53:24
Speaker 2: like you know, you can have the employer sponsor them
53:28
Speaker 2: and then sort of vouch for them and if they
53:31
Speaker 2: commit a crime or so, I don't know. There's so
53:33
Speaker 2: many ways and so many proposals that people have proposed
53:40
Speaker 2: to address certain issues about that. So that is one
53:43
Speaker 2: change I would also in terms of H ONEBB stays,
53:48
Speaker 2: for example, I would uncop the H onebv sas they're
53:53
Speaker 2: also in terms of so green cars are extremely limited,
53:59
Speaker 2: I would un cupped green cards as well, And I
54:01
Speaker 2: would change so in a given category of employment green cards,
54:07
Speaker 2: Say you get a green card and then you want
54:10
Speaker 2: to bring your family, and then you bring your wife
54:12
Speaker 2: and a kid, and then it turns out that two
54:15
Speaker 2: of those green cards in that very limited amount for
54:17
Speaker 2: workers go to you for your kid. So there that
54:21
Speaker 2: is that needs to stop. There needs to be extra
54:24
Speaker 2: green cards for those people essentially, So those are I
54:28
Speaker 2: think some of the things that need to happen also,
54:32
Speaker 2: but there's so much that even like people don't realize.
54:35
Speaker 2: Another thing is if you're here on an H one
54:37
Speaker 2: B and you've been here trying if you're from India,
54:40
Speaker 2: for example, and you're trying to apply for a green card,
54:45
Speaker 2: it takes about over one hundred years for your day
54:48
Speaker 2: to become current. If you're from India want a green card,
54:51
Speaker 2: So you're gonna be waiting, You're gonna die, and you're
54:53
Speaker 2: not gonna be able to get a green card. You're
54:55
Speaker 2: gonna be able to be in the United States, but
54:58
Speaker 2: essentially on your age one status, which is a temporary visa.
55:02
Speaker 2: And while you are waiting for your green card, in
55:05
Speaker 2: the meantime, you have had kids for example, right the
55:08
Speaker 2: problem is when your kid turns eighteen and you don't
55:11
Speaker 2: have a green card, they themselves lose status if they
55:14
Speaker 2: weren't born in the United States.
55:16
Speaker 3: And if you.
55:17
Speaker 1: Lose your job, like thousands of Indian engineers just did
55:21
Speaker 1: an Amazon when they fired people.
55:23
Speaker 3: You have to leave the country.
55:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can try to find another job, and if
55:30
Speaker 2: you get it, that's great. But if you can, I
55:31
Speaker 2: think the great spirit is something like sixty days. I
55:34
Speaker 2: believe if you can find it, off you go. So
55:39
Speaker 2: there's so many injustice. The kids that came here when
55:42
Speaker 2: they were two years old and now are turning eighteen sorry,
55:46
Speaker 2: twenty one, and then not eighteen twenty one, and then
55:50
Speaker 2: they're going to have to potentially leave the country if
55:53
Speaker 2: they cannot get a different visa for themselves. That that
55:58
Speaker 2: is absolutely outrageous, and those things are some of the
56:03
Speaker 2: things that need to change. There's there's a lot.
56:10
Speaker 3: So you are going to be publishing an article.
56:14
Speaker 1: About Ivan's immigration to the United States, So what can
56:20
Speaker 1: you tell us about that story?
56:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I could tell you a lot. So I'm
56:26
Speaker 2: going to try to keep it brief. This is my
56:28
Speaker 2: favorite project that I have ever worked on, so essentially,
56:34
Speaker 2: I love My favorite subgenre of books is like an
56:37
Speaker 2: immigrant memoir. I'm going to go an immigration story. I
56:42
Speaker 2: have read so many of those. It's just my favorite thing.
56:45
Speaker 2: I find it incredibly inspiring and it's just as an
56:49
Speaker 2: immigrant myself. I see myself in many of these people
56:53
Speaker 2: writing these stories or telling these stories. And I always really,
56:57
Speaker 2: you know, other than a man I ran for her philosophy,
57:00
Speaker 2: I do admire her a lot because of her personal story.
57:04
Speaker 2: I think it's an incredible story as an immigrant from
57:07
Speaker 2: Soviet Russia. And I was always fascinated by her journey here.
57:11
Speaker 2: And I realized, I mean, there are a lot of
57:13
Speaker 2: excellent work that objective scholars have done, you know, a
57:17
Speaker 2: biographical work, but I always wanted to read and like
57:26
Speaker 2: the can her immigration story specifically? And I asked, I
57:30
Speaker 2: asked myself questions like why did she actually decide to
57:33
Speaker 2: come here? Why not go somewhere else? What was her
57:36
Speaker 2: relationship with her family when she just immigrated here? What
57:40
Speaker 2: do we know what she thought? What she maybe wrote
57:44
Speaker 2: other people? Like when she arrived? I wonder like does
57:48
Speaker 2: she miss her mom? Like I missed my mom? Like
57:51
Speaker 2: that sort of those sorts of questions, And and I
57:55
Speaker 2: couldn't find, you know, an article or a book or
57:58
Speaker 2: anything to telling her life from that specific angle. So
58:03
Speaker 2: I decided to write it myself, and we've been working.
58:07
Speaker 2: I asked Brandon Licy from The Rat and Archives to
58:09
Speaker 2: write it with me because obviously there's a lot of
58:13
Speaker 2: archival and biographical material that he handled very well that
58:17
Speaker 2: needed to be in the article. So we've been working
58:20
Speaker 2: together for about a year developing this article where we
58:24
Speaker 2: tell her immigration story, and her immigration story actually starts
58:27
Speaker 2: when she was a little girl. It doesn't start when
58:29
Speaker 2: she gets on a boat and comes to America. It
58:32
Speaker 2: starts many many years before, and we tell that full story.
58:35
Speaker 2: And we told her story when she when she gets here,
58:38
Speaker 2: and how her life is like here as a new immigrant.
58:42
Speaker 1: So can you tell us anything about how she came
58:48
Speaker 1: to the United States, Because I mean, this is this
58:51
Speaker 1: is nineteen twenty six. The immigration law passed in nineteen
58:55
Speaker 1: twenty four that really restricted immigration from Eastern Europe, basic
59:00
Speaker 1: in Russia, basically a restricting immigration overall.
59:04
Speaker 3: So how did you get in?
59:07
Speaker 2: Yeah? So yeah. The Johnson Ritact in nineteen twenty four
59:11
Speaker 2: was the first big sweeping immigration regulation in the United States.
59:17
Speaker 2: There had been others before, but this was the biggest
59:21
Speaker 2: one that encompasses most of Eastern Europe and all of Asia,
59:26
Speaker 2: most of Asia. So for there were about two thousand,
59:33
Speaker 2: so that's what lot of ladies essentially implement quota so
59:36
Speaker 2: each country only could bring certain number of immigrants. The
59:40
Speaker 2: quota for Russia was like twenty two hundred, and you
59:45
Speaker 2: had to meet certain requirements to be able to immigrate
59:49
Speaker 2: to the United States. Iron ran even if she had
59:52
Speaker 2: met those requirements, I mean, twenty two hundred visa seam
59:55
Speaker 2: may seem like a lot, but it's actually not a
59:57
Speaker 2: lot at all, not even black then, So essentially what
1:00:01
Speaker 2: she did is well, first she managed to leave Soviet
1:00:04
Speaker 2: Russia to get an exit permit, which because Sovie Russia
1:00:07
Speaker 2: heavily restricted who could come and go, you couldn't leave
1:00:12
Speaker 2: just freely. And she was able to get out of Russia.
1:00:16
Speaker 2: And then she goes to the embassy in Ritiga in Latvia,
1:00:20
Speaker 2: because the US didn't have diplomatic relations with Russia because
1:00:23
Speaker 2: it did not recognize Soviet Russia as a legitimate government.
1:00:29
Speaker 2: So she goes to Latvia and she essentially lies to
1:00:34
Speaker 2: the embassy officer, to the consular officer, telling him that
1:00:40
Speaker 2: she was only going to visit family in Chicago and
1:00:44
Speaker 2: that she had no intention to stay in the United States.
1:00:48
Speaker 2: She even tells him that she she implies this is
1:00:55
Speaker 2: all based on her recollections many years later, right, So
1:00:58
Speaker 2: we don't know exactly what would happened. It's her memory,
1:01:02
Speaker 2: but she says that she essentially implied that she was
1:01:05
Speaker 2: going to marry a Russian man. So obviously she's going
1:01:08
Speaker 2: to come back, and the consular officer, you know, grants
1:01:12
Speaker 2: her the visitor visa. So with a visitor visa, she
1:01:16
Speaker 2: was able to come to the United States and then
1:01:18
Speaker 2: she and then she stays and she marries an American
1:01:23
Speaker 2: Frank O'Connor, and then she gets permanent residency through him.
1:01:28
Speaker 1: So she lied to get into the US, yep, And
1:01:31
Speaker 1: she came on a she came on a visitor visa,
1:01:35
Speaker 1: and yet she worked.
1:01:38
Speaker 2: She did work which was at the time not allowed.
1:01:42
Speaker 1: Wouldn't be allowed today either, right, so she was she
1:01:45
Speaker 1: was clearly deportable.
1:01:48
Speaker 2: Well we go, yes, I mean you have to also
1:01:52
Speaker 2: keep in mind that immigration regulations were not what they
1:01:57
Speaker 2: are today in terms of how they were in persia,
1:02:00
Speaker 2: in society. So you know, right now, like if you
1:02:03
Speaker 2: try to work illegally, I mean it's really hard, but
1:02:07
Speaker 2: like you can get such up. But like you're gonna
1:02:09
Speaker 2: if any big job that you want, actually reputable job,
1:02:12
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to go with e verify, and you know,
1:02:15
Speaker 2: it's going to be really hard to get a job illegally.
1:02:18
Speaker 2: Back then, it wasn't like that. And people have a
1:02:21
Speaker 2: top of mind right like, oh, illegal, the illegals are working,
1:02:24
Speaker 2: it's illegal work. Even if you are, you know, in
1:02:27
Speaker 2: favor of imigration, you keep it in mind because also
1:02:29
Speaker 2: they can come after you and whatever. So it wasn't
1:02:33
Speaker 2: like that back then. But and this was the start
1:02:38
Speaker 2: of these regulations in the nineteen twenties, these regulations were
1:02:43
Speaker 2: starting to slowly get against team. But because in part
1:02:48
Speaker 2: of how communications happened, it didn't happen even as fast
1:02:51
Speaker 2: as now. People took a little bit longer to catch
1:02:55
Speaker 2: up to these things. So it wasn't really that much
1:02:59
Speaker 2: of a thing. But it is true that she did
1:03:02
Speaker 2: break the law by working.
1:03:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh wait, one other things. So last year he
1:03:10
Speaker 3: became a US citizen.
1:03:11
Speaker 2: I did.
1:03:12
Speaker 3: Congratulations.
1:03:14
Speaker 1: So you know, given the shitty state of America today,
1:03:20
Speaker 1: I can say that, how does it feel to become
1:03:22
Speaker 1: an immigrant in spite of that?
1:03:26
Speaker 2: Well, I so I became an American on paper at
1:03:30
Speaker 2: least on July third last year, right before the fourth
1:03:36
Speaker 2: of July. And it was like with my wedding, like
1:03:43
Speaker 2: the most important day of my life. Like I I
1:03:47
Speaker 2: can literally start crying. Everyone I used to think about.
1:03:50
Speaker 2: I have my religions have a recording video. Every time
1:03:55
Speaker 2: I watch it is guaranteed I'm gonna start sobbing because
1:03:58
Speaker 2: it's it was so an important moment in my life,
1:04:02
Speaker 2: and it was already in the midst of these chaos
1:04:06
Speaker 2: in America. I remember at that point, it was right
1:04:10
Speaker 2: at the start of these ICE Asians starting to show
1:04:13
Speaker 2: up to immigration interviews, and it was the start of
1:04:18
Speaker 2: the big operations by ICE. That was shortly before my interview,
1:04:24
Speaker 2: was a few weeks before my old ceremony, and that's
1:04:27
Speaker 2: when I started. They came to LA and I remember
1:04:33
Speaker 2: after my interview, I saw ICE agents got on the
1:04:36
Speaker 2: elevator with me at the building right after my interview,
1:04:41
Speaker 2: and it was at that point already was terrifying, but
1:04:44
Speaker 2: it wasn't even what it is now. But we were
1:04:47
Speaker 2: already in the midst of this, and honestly, I would
1:04:52
Speaker 2: do it again like now, tomorrow, next week, in ten
1:04:57
Speaker 2: years because to me, but going on right now, it
1:05:00
Speaker 2: is not representative of the values that I am pledging
1:05:03
Speaker 2: allegiance to and it's not. I don't think it's representative
1:05:08
Speaker 2: of America. What's going on right now. I think it
1:05:10
Speaker 2: is a betrayal of America. I think it's a betrayal
1:05:13
Speaker 2: of values, our constitution that I have vowed, vowed to
1:05:17
Speaker 2: defend and I will. All so, i am proud to
1:05:23
Speaker 2: be an American, and I'm proud to have become an American,
1:05:26
Speaker 2: even in challenging times that could have been like, well,
1:05:29
Speaker 2: maybe I do it, but like because I'm going to
1:05:32
Speaker 2: be safer, but kind of like not make a big
1:05:33
Speaker 2: deal a big deal about it. No, I make a
1:05:36
Speaker 2: big deal about it, and I told everyone because you know,
1:05:39
Speaker 2: I am proud of it, and I am no. I
1:05:44
Speaker 2: want to defend this country to the best of my
1:05:47
Speaker 2: ability against what's happening right now, which I think is
1:05:51
Speaker 2: basically an American.
1:05:54
Speaker 3: Good. We're glad to have you.
1:05:57
Speaker 2: Thank you. I want to hear your story at some point,
1:06:00
Speaker 2: which one your naturalization journey.
1:06:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't remember much of it, so you know,
1:06:07
Speaker 1: I have a lousy memory. So anybody wanted to do
1:06:10
Speaker 1: a your run book biography, it's hopeless. But I got
1:06:16
Speaker 1: naturalized in two thousand and three for some reason. Revitalga
1:06:19
Speaker 1: naturalized before me. There was some technical issue. I can't
1:06:24
Speaker 1: remember what it was, but you know, I had to
1:06:27
Speaker 1: go through student visa for six years, practical training visa
1:06:34
Speaker 1: for one year. Was it H one something and I
1:06:39
Speaker 1: don't think it was H one B but like a
1:06:41
Speaker 1: special talent visa the one I think it was an
1:06:44
Speaker 1: one something like that. Then a green card, then citizenship.
1:06:50
Speaker 1: But each step is a nightmare. Each step is paperwork. Luckily,
1:06:56
Speaker 1: because I was working for university, they did most of
1:06:59
Speaker 1: the World Book and it all went through fine. But
1:07:03
Speaker 1: I didn't get my citizenship until I was already working
1:07:07
Speaker 1: for the Institute for you, right, So, but.
1:07:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was.
1:07:16
Speaker 1: It took sixteen sixteen years on the date, from the
1:07:21
Speaker 1: time I got to the United States until it became
1:07:24
Speaker 1: a citizen.
1:07:24
Speaker 3: It was sixteen years. So yeah, all right, let's see,
1:07:30
Speaker 3: we've got we've got some questions.
1:07:32
Speaker 1: Okay, West, says Augustina. Do you read fiction, any favorite
1:07:38
Speaker 1: genres or authors? Looking for some recommendations for new stuff?
1:07:44
Speaker 2: I don't read a lot of fiction, honestly, When was
1:07:47
Speaker 2: the last fiction I read? I read? I read? I
1:07:54
Speaker 2: read a novel that was the equivalent of watching a
1:08:00
Speaker 2: dumb Netflix show that you just want to numb your
1:08:04
Speaker 2: mind because I was a little stressful or some things
1:08:06
Speaker 2: and I wanted to, you know, So I read it
1:08:09
Speaker 2: like today. Nothing to recommend, nothing to recommend, I will
1:08:13
Speaker 2: say my favorite book of fiction, leaving aside the Rance fiction,
1:08:18
Speaker 2: which is genuinely my favorite. But leaving that aside, which
1:08:23
Speaker 2: people listen to you don't need that recommendation. I haven't.
1:08:27
Speaker 2: It's I would say. I the book Worther by Geth
1:08:33
Speaker 2: is like really old books, seventeen hundreds. It's an I
1:08:38
Speaker 2: think it's called an epistolary novel. It's essentially letters that
1:08:42
Speaker 2: the character rights to someone else. It's extremely sad, but
1:08:47
Speaker 2: it is so beautiful. I love poetry, so it's very poetic.
1:08:51
Speaker 2: So if you want to read something sad but really
1:08:53
Speaker 2: deep and beautiful and moving, I recommend that book. Very good.
1:08:58
Speaker 3: What it's called Slower.
1:09:00
Speaker 2: Wether or sometimes they call it The Sorrows of Young Worthers.
1:09:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, okay, yep yeah.
1:09:08
Speaker 1: One of the first romantics in Guta and Chilo, with
1:09:13
Speaker 1: the first romantics really in Germany.
1:09:17
Speaker 2: Oh and one book I finished that I actually had
1:09:20
Speaker 2: never read. The whole thing I had read many years
1:09:22
Speaker 2: ago in a rich version is limits. I actually read it.
1:09:25
Speaker 2: I finished it late last year, read the one chapter.
1:09:28
Speaker 2: They thing I loved it. But yeah, also, this audience
1:09:32
Speaker 2: does not need that recommendation.
1:09:34
Speaker 3: Who Go? You got to read who Go? Guys? Sorry us.
1:09:40
Speaker 2: Keep trying fiction non fiction. I got you, but not
1:09:44
Speaker 2: with the finish the fiction.
1:09:45
Speaker 3: It's shows. But I don't know how you are with movies.
1:09:49
Speaker 1: Okay, what says is the character of Private Vasquez in
1:09:54
Speaker 1: Aliens the movie a huge to Hispanic people, even though
1:09:59
Speaker 1: she was playing by nonspagnic actress.
1:10:04
Speaker 2: I Alien like the one with Sigourny Weaver.
1:10:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think this is the second one Aliens
1:10:11
Speaker 1: with an acid Dan, so it's number two, and there
1:10:15
Speaker 1: was a character.
1:10:16
Speaker 2: I've never heard that meaning of her being a hero.
1:10:20
Speaker 2: But also, don't rely on me, because I am with
1:10:23
Speaker 2: movies even more than I am with fiction. I am
1:10:27
Speaker 2: the least movie person you will ever meet. Like, I
1:10:30
Speaker 2: don't watch movies very rarely watch the movie. Maybe I
1:10:33
Speaker 2: watch two movies a year.
1:10:34
Speaker 3: Really really right? Uh so don't ask about movies. Let's see.
1:10:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not gonna be able to help you, like
1:10:44
Speaker 2: other than a few Disney movies and the Airstorre movie.
1:10:49
Speaker 2: Does that count which one the Arastorre Taylor Swift. That's
1:10:54
Speaker 2: the only that she's a.
1:10:56
Speaker 3: Taylor Swift fan. So I don't know.
1:10:59
Speaker 1: Uh, okay loan the center. Stina tell us about how
1:11:04
Speaker 1: AOI is educational programs benefited your intellectual career and anything
1:11:10
Speaker 1: she else meaningful to you. More people should take the
1:11:14
Speaker 1: opportunity to learn with AOI or donate to support the programs.
1:11:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree with that. So I actually recently
1:11:24
Speaker 2: did an interview about this. Maybe I can find a
1:11:27
Speaker 2: way to share it. But essentially, the air educational programs
1:11:31
Speaker 2: have benefited me from the start of, you know, my
1:11:36
Speaker 2: journey with objectivism. Back in like twenty thirteen when AARI
1:11:42
Speaker 2: campus first started that the website was like really elementary
1:11:46
Speaker 2: and nothing like it is today. There were like, maybe
1:11:50
Speaker 2: I don't know, ten courses online and I found it.
1:11:55
Speaker 2: I was still living in Argentina. I had no contact
1:11:57
Speaker 2: with ARI at that point, but I googled, I ran whatnot.
1:12:00
Speaker 2: I found the campus and I started listening to the courses.
1:12:05
Speaker 2: I would listen to them on my phone while going
1:12:08
Speaker 2: to because I walked to school and I walked a lot,
1:12:11
Speaker 2: so I would listen, and then at home and whatnot.
1:12:14
Speaker 2: And I remember I listened to the fountain Head course,
1:12:17
Speaker 2: I listened to the anthem course I listen. I listened
1:12:22
Speaker 2: to a course of my own car, the morality of freedom,
1:12:27
Speaker 2: which is still away like all of these you guys
1:12:29
Speaker 2: should go and listen, and it just blew my mind.
1:12:33
Speaker 2: The death of the analysis of the novels, the and
1:12:36
Speaker 2: then on cars perspective, the morality of freedom like that
1:12:43
Speaker 2: phrase is something I had never heard before. And how
1:12:47
Speaker 2: on Car talked about it, how he taught the subject.
1:12:50
Speaker 2: I found it completely mind blowing. And then I consumed
1:12:54
Speaker 2: everything campus then I ended up getting more in touch
1:12:59
Speaker 2: with a R and coming briefly for a few weeks
1:13:03
Speaker 2: here too, to the Irvine office. That's when I met
1:13:06
Speaker 2: first met you year and you probably don't remember, no,
1:13:09
Speaker 2: of course not. We were eating tacos.
1:13:11
Speaker 3: I remember.
1:13:13
Speaker 2: We had a lunch outside of the office, and I
1:13:17
Speaker 2: was because I listened to you a lot. I still
1:13:19
Speaker 2: don't listen to you, but at that point it was
1:13:21
Speaker 2: like my lef went off. At that point, it was
1:13:24
Speaker 2: basically every day and I was really nervous to meet
1:13:28
Speaker 2: you your own because I was like.
1:13:29
Speaker 3: Oh, my God, this is everybody is I know it
1:13:33
Speaker 3: shouldn't be.
1:13:34
Speaker 2: Guys, now I'm not nervous anymore.
1:13:37
Speaker 3: Your own don't worry.
1:13:39
Speaker 2: Uh And but and then I was accepted into the
1:13:43
Speaker 2: Objectives Academic Center, which was a precursor of the under
1:13:46
Speaker 2: University an ARII courses. It was very competitive, it was
1:13:50
Speaker 2: not open to like it is now to most people
1:13:54
Speaker 2: who want to learn. So the Objectives Academic Center really
1:13:58
Speaker 2: was honestly more for CHI done law school, and I
1:14:01
Speaker 2: did six years of law school because I went to
1:14:03
Speaker 2: law school in Argentina and it's longer and it's harder, frankly,
1:14:07
Speaker 2: but so it completely changed my way of thinking and
1:14:12
Speaker 2: of understanding objectivism. I thought anew objectivism until I went
1:14:16
Speaker 2: to the o C. And then after that, shortly after
1:14:22
Speaker 2: I finish, OIC was able to come on board and
1:14:24
Speaker 2: work at ARI and been taking courses ever since. I
1:14:27
Speaker 2: actually did retook many of the OC classes because sometimes
1:14:31
Speaker 2: each year they would be different. And then with the course,
1:14:37
Speaker 2: I took many of the courses that what we're called
1:14:41
Speaker 2: now the are live courses, and it's just completely changed
1:14:48
Speaker 2: the way. It's a lot of methodology with this, something
1:14:51
Speaker 2: that I really needed and it's such, it's so incredibly valuable.
1:14:56
Speaker 2: I really wish more people would be aware of these programs,
1:14:59
Speaker 2: and they are available. It's top notch, truly, including also
1:15:04
Speaker 2: the writing course that Keith Lockage still still teaches. I
1:15:07
Speaker 2: used to be ta for that course. It completely changed
1:15:10
Speaker 2: my way of writing. Writing used to be torture for
1:15:13
Speaker 2: me before I took that course, which taught me an
1:15:15
Speaker 2: actual methodology, an actual process, an actual writing process. So
1:15:20
Speaker 2: it's been amazing and I still take courses and I
1:15:24
Speaker 2: recommend it to everybody. And yeah, the only way we
1:15:27
Speaker 2: can keep this going if people support support that work
1:15:31
Speaker 2: through the donations.
1:15:32
Speaker 3: Absolutely, that's great.
1:15:36
Speaker 1: As Gristina's one of our real success stories at AA.
1:15:42
Speaker 1: It shows but more movies. Have you seen the film
1:15:45
Speaker 1: District nine. What do you think of the way it
1:15:48
Speaker 1: portrayed the immigration problem. I don't know if you've seen
1:15:51
Speaker 1: District nine.
1:15:52
Speaker 3: I saw.
1:15:53
Speaker 1: District nine is just the one in South Africa. God,
1:15:59
Speaker 1: I can to remember shas, but I you know, it's
1:16:03
Speaker 1: it was like an independent movie, but I can't remember
1:16:06
Speaker 1: the details of it.
1:16:07
Speaker 3: I'm sure it was good, all right.
1:16:11
Speaker 1: Richard says, when my step son became a US citizen,
1:16:14
Speaker 1: the oath included that he would take up arms to
1:16:17
Speaker 1: defend the country.
1:16:18
Speaker 3: Do you recall that part of the oath? What do
1:16:21
Speaker 3: you think about it?
1:16:23
Speaker 2: Yeah? I recalled it's the part that says I'm ranking
1:16:30
Speaker 2: out on exactly how it is. But essentially, if you
1:16:33
Speaker 2: are required to take up arms to defend the United
1:16:38
Speaker 2: States or to perform some sort of civilian like duties
1:16:46
Speaker 2: related to that, that you will, I mean, honestly, if required,
1:16:54
Speaker 2: and it is I mean, we're all we're assuming that
1:16:58
Speaker 2: we have a pro America government, right and like what
1:17:02
Speaker 2: we're what we're doing here is and we are being America.
1:17:07
Speaker 2: I would defend this country. I would. I don't. I
1:17:09
Speaker 2: think it really depends on the context. But I would
1:17:14
Speaker 2: go to great length to defend this country. I mean
1:17:18
Speaker 2: I'm not. I mean, you don't want to give me
1:17:20
Speaker 2: a gun. I have no idea how to shoot, Like
1:17:22
Speaker 2: I would shoot myself before I can shoot anybody else
1:17:24
Speaker 2: or anything else. And you I'm not the person if
1:17:28
Speaker 2: I would require to to perform other things that I
1:17:31
Speaker 2: can actually do in a context we're talking of, of course,
1:17:37
Speaker 2: it would be extremely rare and weird, and it's a hypothetical,
1:17:40
Speaker 2: but I would defend this country if you need be,
1:17:43
Speaker 2: And I do defend this country through my speech, so
1:17:46
Speaker 2: I would, you know, I put my life on the line,
1:17:49
Speaker 2: sort of not my life, but I put my thoughts
1:17:53
Speaker 2: out there and expose myself to a lot of things
1:17:56
Speaker 2: in order to defend this country and if need be,
1:17:58
Speaker 2: which would be extremely weird and rare, but I would
1:18:02
Speaker 2: do the same with my body.
1:18:03
Speaker 3: So let's see.
1:18:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the most important, the most important defense
1:18:11
Speaker 1: of America is an intellectual defense of America.
1:18:13
Speaker 3: And yeah, that is what we are doing.
1:18:18
Speaker 1: Okay, Michael, can Ice be defeated? Has it already been
1:18:24
Speaker 1: largely defeated?
1:18:30
Speaker 2: I think that because they have gotten so out of control.
1:18:34
Speaker 2: And basically every American or not basically, but every American
1:18:38
Speaker 2: is aware of what ICE is and how it operates.
1:18:42
Speaker 2: There is a lot of support now to abolish ICE,
1:18:45
Speaker 2: which used to be a very extreme, very left you
1:18:49
Speaker 2: know as long and from the left that people used
1:18:52
Speaker 2: to consider extremely extremely extreme. Now it's basically mainstream. So
1:18:58
Speaker 2: I think there is going to be a post to
1:19:00
Speaker 2: form DHS. Remember the DHS came to exist after ninety
1:19:06
Speaker 2: eleven and as a reaction to that, and there were
1:19:09
Speaker 2: many problems with DHS from the get go. But I
1:19:14
Speaker 2: think there is a lot of political like people Americans
1:19:18
Speaker 2: are disapproving of these tactics and they want to abolish eyes.
1:19:24
Speaker 2: The thing is, abolish eyes is such a it's very
1:19:30
Speaker 2: like lukewarm. It's like tep it. You don't like you
1:19:33
Speaker 2: need to change the immigration system. Ice exist because we
1:19:36
Speaker 2: have laws that need to be enforced in this way,
1:19:39
Speaker 2: meaning that require this sort of enforcement. So you need
1:19:43
Speaker 2: to change the whole thing. Abolish eyes is just what
1:19:47
Speaker 2: are you gonna do? Like, who's going to enforce the
1:19:49
Speaker 2: demigration you have to have if the immigration laws needs
1:19:52
Speaker 2: to be inforced to enforce to this extent and they
1:19:55
Speaker 2: and you have so many violators of the laws because
1:19:57
Speaker 2: it's impossible to come legally to America. Basically, who's going
1:20:01
Speaker 2: to enforce them? You need to change the whole thing.
1:20:03
Speaker 1: Yep, Thanks Michael, Dave fifty dollars. Thank you, Dave, And
1:20:09
Speaker 1: I saw the sticker as well.
1:20:11
Speaker 3: Thank you for that.
1:20:12
Speaker 1: Dave says, thank you for the transparent exposition on immigration.
1:20:18
Speaker 3: Thanks Dave, appreciate that. Okay, Jacob, what do I use
1:20:22
Speaker 3: the youth? I think this is related to Argentina. What
1:20:25
Speaker 3: do I use the youth to drugs.
1:20:26
Speaker 1: And violence, where the parents so adult figures to stop
1:20:30
Speaker 1: a fourteen year old from getting high and shooting people.
1:20:35
Speaker 2: I think a lot of it is. So you see violence,
1:20:40
Speaker 2: and you see drugs in America too, but it is different,
1:20:44
Speaker 2: and you see obviously gun violence in America, but it's
1:20:47
Speaker 2: it's different. I think in Argentina it's mostly poverty. I mean,
1:20:54
Speaker 2: and of course, but it's not poverty of as in
1:20:58
Speaker 2: it's deeper. It's generations of poverty, of generations where people
1:21:04
Speaker 2: have been very poor or they have been basically surviving
1:21:11
Speaker 2: because of government welfare. Essentially we're gonna pay you to
1:21:15
Speaker 2: do nothing. So it's generations of people that have grown
1:21:19
Speaker 2: up not seeing their parents get up early in the
1:21:21
Speaker 2: morning to go to work. And so it's a life
1:21:25
Speaker 2: devoid of work. It's a life that doesn't have much
1:21:28
Speaker 2: meaning even so there's nothing to there's nothing to strive for,
1:21:37
Speaker 2: there's nothing. Life is just hanging out with your homies,
1:21:41
Speaker 2: just drinking, doing drugs, and you want the latest phone,
1:21:46
Speaker 2: but you don't have enough money for the latest one,
1:21:48
Speaker 2: but you want it. And it's essentially people get high
1:21:51
Speaker 2: in order to be able to gain the courage to
1:21:54
Speaker 2: go shoot someone for their phone or their shoes or whatever.
1:21:58
Speaker 2: It's a generational problem. It's a philosophical and generational issue.
1:22:03
Speaker 2: I blame for a lot of it. I blame Peron,
1:22:06
Speaker 2: who is the one that grew the welfare stage dramatically
1:22:09
Speaker 2: and made people think that they were entitled to everything
1:22:13
Speaker 2: they needed. Eva Peron said, where there is a need,
1:22:17
Speaker 2: there is a right. I mean, whatever you need, it
1:22:19
Speaker 2: is your right to get it. It is your right
1:22:21
Speaker 2: to get it. So I'm gonna go shoot it. If
1:22:23
Speaker 2: it's my right to get it, I'm gonna go get
1:22:24
Speaker 2: it from someone else. It is my right. So I
1:22:29
Speaker 2: blame Peron for the mostly him for the philosophical demise
1:22:36
Speaker 2: of him of Argentina. But yeah, it's essentially, it's essentially
1:22:42
Speaker 2: that it's a philosophical issue.
1:22:44
Speaker 1: Dim down, all right, John, who has a single track mind.
1:22:51
Speaker 3: He's got three questions.
1:22:52
Speaker 1: We'll start with this one, Augustina, do you support open
1:22:54
Speaker 1: immigration of Muslims?
1:22:57
Speaker 3: Oh?
1:22:57
Speaker 2: This this, I think I know who this person is.
1:23:01
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's this person who.
1:23:04
Speaker 1: There are plenty of them, so I don't know this
1:23:07
Speaker 1: particular John, but maybe he's.
1:23:09
Speaker 3: A bit.
1:23:11
Speaker 2: I don't know when I don't like to use the
1:23:14
Speaker 2: phrase open borders or open immigration because I do believe
1:23:18
Speaker 2: in many many restrict not many many frustrations, that's not true,
1:23:21
Speaker 2: but in restrictions, several restrictions immigration, at least three of them.
1:23:25
Speaker 2: One of them is for national security reasons. And I
1:23:29
Speaker 2: think it depends on what the Muslim is, who the
1:23:32
Speaker 2: Muslim is essentially, what is this is in this individual
1:23:36
Speaker 2: part of hamas is this individual part of Alcada? Well know,
1:23:41
Speaker 2: so no open immigration meaning no restrictions whatsoever. Now I
1:23:45
Speaker 2: don't support that.
1:23:47
Speaker 1: All right, let's finish up with John. Okay, he asks
1:23:50
Speaker 1: a Christina, do you think Islamic immigration into Europe is
1:23:53
Speaker 1: being good? For example, wham wtha ham is the you know.
1:24:02
Speaker 2: I don't think it has been in many respects because
1:24:07
Speaker 2: Europe has been horrible. Europe is a is a readable
1:24:11
Speaker 2: like they stand for nothing and they let anything go,
1:24:14
Speaker 2: They let anything happen for fear of coming off as racist.
1:24:19
Speaker 2: They have no ideology, they have no values to protect,
1:24:24
Speaker 2: and they have let you know, they have let any
1:24:28
Speaker 2: anybody run over them like essentially no character whatsoever. Sorry,
1:24:33
Speaker 2: europeans no offense. But what Europe has done is really
1:24:39
Speaker 2: truly not enforced the law. I have read some about
1:24:42
Speaker 2: this own. Car Nicos, soucier Copoulos and I have a
1:24:45
Speaker 2: podcast episode that we did a couple of years ago
1:24:48
Speaker 2: about the problems with immigration in Europe and why the
1:24:57
Speaker 2: way that Europe has treated immigration is not how we
1:25:01
Speaker 2: should do it in the United States. But I don't
1:25:03
Speaker 2: think that can happen in the United States because we
1:25:05
Speaker 2: actually we we we we have way more of a
1:25:11
Speaker 2: backbone than Europe, and we have values to defend and
1:25:15
Speaker 2: we know what we stand for. I don't think that
1:25:17
Speaker 2: that can never happen here. I mean not ever. I
1:25:21
Speaker 2: mean you again, as long as we continue being in America,
1:25:28
Speaker 2: which is not this is not we should not take
1:25:31
Speaker 2: that for granted.
1:25:31
Speaker 1: Essentially, all right, continuing with your on single track mind, Augustina,
1:25:37
Speaker 1: what is an ideal immigration policy with regard to Islamic immigration?
1:25:43
Speaker 2: It the same as an ideal immigration policy for everyone else.
1:25:49
Speaker 2: People who are threatned to national security objectively, and you
1:25:55
Speaker 2: have to define what that is, people who have a
1:25:58
Speaker 2: criminal background, people who have infectious disease that is contagious
1:26:02
Speaker 2: reaching a certain level, it should not be.
1:26:04
Speaker 3: Allowed to come here, but everybody else should.
1:26:10
Speaker 2: Yes, basically, I mean, this is in an ideal society.
1:26:14
Speaker 2: We are not there. I mean I don't think you
1:26:17
Speaker 2: should open the word again metaphorically speaking, I don't think
1:26:23
Speaker 2: you should overnight open the water. That would be chaotic.
1:26:26
Speaker 2: You cannot deregulate big things like that overnight because it's authoritarians.
1:26:32
Speaker 2: Ran herself said that, right.
1:26:36
Speaker 1: Let's see, I like numbers says, do the ends justify
1:26:43
Speaker 1: the means? When people falsely claim TPS status in their
1:26:49
Speaker 1: quest to achieve the American dream.
1:26:55
Speaker 2: You cannot falsely claim TPS. You have to come from
1:26:59
Speaker 2: a country where it is actually there is an issue objectively,
1:27:02
Speaker 2: like Venezuela, where you know there's a lot of political prosecution.
1:27:07
Speaker 2: So you apply and then the government if you meet
1:27:12
Speaker 2: the requirements of TPS, you may get temporary protect the status.
1:27:19
Speaker 3: And so I mean it's it's a funny question.
1:27:23
Speaker 1: After we just told you that I ran lied in
1:27:25
Speaker 1: order to get into the United States. If you're running
1:27:29
Speaker 1: from a dictatorship and it's a life of death issue, yeah,
1:27:36
Speaker 1: absolutely if you have to lie in order to you know,
1:27:38
Speaker 1: so you could I guess what he means is if
1:27:41
Speaker 1: you say.
1:27:44
Speaker 3: You know, I'm a.
1:27:45
Speaker 1: Political review GEO, I need asylum, right, but then you
1:27:49
Speaker 1: go in front of a judge and the judge evaluates
1:27:51
Speaker 1: whether that is true or not.
1:27:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, But like I think, but this this person, I mean,
1:27:58
Speaker 2: I'm not sure they know what TPS is is not
1:28:00
Speaker 2: the same as asylum. They're very different aspects of the
1:28:07
Speaker 2: immigration law it is. I mean, you asking for asylum
1:28:12
Speaker 2: the TPS, you don't have that director of a path
1:28:15
Speaker 2: towards citizenship or whatever as you do with asylums. And
1:28:18
Speaker 2: of course the question is about asylum. That's a different story.
1:28:21
Speaker 2: But yeah, you're going to have to eventually prove in
1:28:23
Speaker 2: front of a judge that you actually have these issues,
1:28:27
Speaker 2: that you are politically prosecuted and all of that.
1:28:29
Speaker 1: It just shows you how complicated the American immigration system is,
1:28:33
Speaker 1: unnecessarily so, Roman says, when should immigrants be granted citizenship?
1:28:43
Speaker 2: I think, and I think I'm not sure. I think
1:28:46
Speaker 2: you don't think it should be alone. It should be really,
1:28:50
Speaker 2: really hard in many years. I think that is your view.
1:28:53
Speaker 1: Roughly speaking, I don't particularly I think very few people
1:28:56
Speaker 1: should be citizens period. I think Americans should be citizens either.
1:29:01
Speaker 1: So my have a radical view about citizenship. I think
1:29:04
Speaker 1: I think voting needs to be earned, and just because
1:29:06
Speaker 1: you were born in this country doesn't mean you should
1:29:08
Speaker 1: be able to vote.
1:29:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, and I know I know a lot
1:29:14
Speaker 2: of people that I respect that think it should be extremely,
1:29:16
Speaker 2: extremely hard for immigrants to gainship citizenship. I don't think
1:29:21
Speaker 2: it should be that way. I think it should be
1:29:27
Speaker 2: not as difficult as other things. I think you can
1:29:30
Speaker 2: discuss how many years after right now. It's depends on
1:29:35
Speaker 2: when you get your Rink card and how you got
1:29:37
Speaker 2: your Grink card. It's five years or three years after
1:29:39
Speaker 2: you got your GREENK card, how you got your Green card,
1:29:42
Speaker 2: maybe like may take twenty years or may take two.
1:29:45
Speaker 2: It really depends. I think that if you pass your
1:29:51
Speaker 2: test and you show that you know what America's political system,
1:30:00
Speaker 2: even that, given that people are subject to potentially other
1:30:13
Speaker 2: potentially constraints in the countries of origin. I'm saying this
1:30:18
Speaker 2: because I'm thinking about some people that have been here
1:30:22
Speaker 2: for years and that are still and can't apply for
1:30:29
Speaker 2: citizenship and are still being either taxed by their home
1:30:32
Speaker 2: countries or subject to their legislation in many respects. I
1:30:37
Speaker 2: think they should be able to renounce a citizenship potentially
1:30:41
Speaker 2: if they want and be able to become Americans if
1:30:43
Speaker 2: they saw desire. Again, for me, also, becoming an American
1:30:47
Speaker 2: is such a philosophical It was such a philosophical choice.
1:30:50
Speaker 2: It wasn't paperwork. And honestly, for most people that I've
1:30:54
Speaker 2: met that have become Americans, for most of them, it
1:30:57
Speaker 2: was never a paperwork thing. It was actually a big
1:31:02
Speaker 2: moving event and it meant a lot to them. And
1:31:06
Speaker 2: I think that is different from what it is in Europe,
1:31:08
Speaker 2: for instance, because again we stand for something. So yeah,
1:31:13
Speaker 2: I think you can discuss how long, how many years,
1:31:18
Speaker 2: but I think it shouldn't take as long as it
1:31:22
Speaker 2: takes in many cases.
1:31:26
Speaker 1: All right, let's see Roman says, is it wrong to
1:31:29
Speaker 1: deport criminal immigrants if you believe in the morality of
1:31:33
Speaker 1: your justice system, and deportation means exporting evil?
1:31:38
Speaker 2: Wait can you repeat that?
1:31:39
Speaker 3: She's asking?
1:31:40
Speaker 1: If you deport a criminal, then why would you deport him.
1:31:45
Speaker 1: It's a criminal, your sentence up to.
1:31:47
Speaker 3: Jail, he goes to jail. Why are you kind of
1:31:50
Speaker 3: exporting his evil to another country?
1:31:53
Speaker 2: Well, if you send that person back to where you're
1:31:57
Speaker 2: not exporting, if you send that person back to where
1:31:59
Speaker 2: they came from, I am in favor of deporting criminals
1:32:05
Speaker 2: one violent criminals, and but yeah, there's something to say
1:32:14
Speaker 2: about whether you I think deportation is a big punishment.
1:32:22
Speaker 2: But there's something to say about and that is a
1:32:24
Speaker 2: question that has to be answered by potentially legislator. How
1:32:28
Speaker 2: do how does the the time that they have to
1:32:31
Speaker 2: serve for whatever crime they committed sort of interact with
1:32:35
Speaker 2: the deportation, because there are some cases where people have
1:32:38
Speaker 2: committed heinous crimes as some immigrant zoos, just like some
1:32:42
Speaker 2: American zoo, and they have been deported and not serve
1:32:47
Speaker 2: their time, and they have were just deported. So but
1:32:50
Speaker 2: there's also something to say about why would America spend
1:32:55
Speaker 2: taxpayer dollar dollars when this person can just be the
1:32:59
Speaker 2: meaning calling this person in prison, when they can be
1:33:01
Speaker 2: deported and someone else can deal with it. That those
1:33:04
Speaker 2: are questions that you know, would need to be answered.
1:33:07
Speaker 2: But I don't think it's unjust to the poor criminals,
1:33:12
Speaker 2: if that's part of the question.
1:33:15
Speaker 1: A woman asked, how do you defeat trump volcism? I
1:33:22
Speaker 1: guess blood and soil and kind of nationalism.
1:33:27
Speaker 2: I mean, this is gonna sound kind of like a
1:33:30
Speaker 2: cliche for for for people, isn't it. But honestly by
1:33:34
Speaker 2: pushing better ideas, I don't. I mean it's a I
1:33:41
Speaker 2: mean I wouldn't say that Trump has a philosophical view.
1:33:44
Speaker 2: By Trump, I think you mean more more mostly the
1:33:48
Speaker 2: the administration, because Trump, I don't think is particularly I
1:33:53
Speaker 2: don't think he even reaches a level of a nationalist,
1:33:55
Speaker 2: not even that. But I mean, the only solution that
1:34:00
Speaker 2: I can think of is better ideas. And I know
1:34:04
Speaker 2: that sounds very abstract, but it's just the truth individualism,
1:34:09
Speaker 2: and yeah, that is the only way.
1:34:11
Speaker 1: That's why we're fighting this battle, all right, Gary says
1:34:15
Speaker 1: mainstream America.
1:34:16
Speaker 3: I think would be very excited for.
1:34:18
Speaker 1: Politician who made immigration, green card, work, permits, residency easy,
1:34:23
Speaker 1: but citizenship.
1:34:24
Speaker 3: And warfare very very hard.
1:34:28
Speaker 1: I mean, that's part of why I say it should
1:34:31
Speaker 1: take a long time to be citizens. Partially it's to
1:34:34
Speaker 1: get people to admit that they really don't want these people.
1:34:38
Speaker 1: It has nothing to do with them becoming citizen. And
1:34:41
Speaker 1: you know, so it's like they'll take warfare, okay, so
1:34:44
Speaker 1: we'll ban warfare for immigrants to you, okay, with immigrants
1:34:46
Speaker 1: then not really, we won't give them citizenship, but they
1:34:50
Speaker 1: can stay here for the rest of your life, you're
1:34:51
Speaker 1: okay with immigrants, then not really. So partially it's to
1:34:54
Speaker 1: push them to admit to what really is driving them
1:34:59
Speaker 1: was just a hatred of others people.
1:35:02
Speaker 3: But I wish that was right, Gary, I mean, that would.
1:35:04
Speaker 2: Be great, That would be better than what we have now.
1:35:08
Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't think the problem is the problem
1:35:11
Speaker 2: that Americans have is with people becoming citizens on the
1:35:17
Speaker 2: countrary my own experience in America, when I've discussed me
1:35:24
Speaker 2: becoming a citizen, it's like, oh my god, it's best
1:35:26
Speaker 2: news I've heard today, Like it's just very welcoming. So yeah,
1:35:33
Speaker 2: I don't know that focusing on not giving citizenship shortly
1:35:38
Speaker 2: after becoming after getting a grink or whatever, I'm not
1:35:41
Speaker 2: sure that that it's.
1:35:42
Speaker 3: It's it's the argument that.
1:35:48
Speaker 1: If you allow lots of people in from socialist countries,
1:35:52
Speaker 1: they bring their socialism with you with them and then
1:35:54
Speaker 1: they all vote democratic. So my response to said, okay,
1:35:58
Speaker 1: so let's not let's make it so they never vote,
1:36:02
Speaker 1: so don't make them citizens?
1:36:03
Speaker 3: Are you? Are you willing to accept them that?
1:36:06
Speaker 1: And and that's when I think you you push them
1:36:08
Speaker 1: into the corner and you realize that that's not what's
1:36:11
Speaker 1: really going on.
1:36:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like, honestly, to that argument, I sort of responded, yeah,
1:36:18
Speaker 2: that's true. That's why Florida is notoriously socialistic and communistic.
1:36:24
Speaker 3: In Texas, all those all those Mexicans in Texas voting. Yeah,
1:36:28
Speaker 3: I know.
1:36:31
Speaker 1: Under Center says citizenship, welfare, and voting for immigrants are
1:36:34
Speaker 1: red herring issues.
1:36:36
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
1:36:37
Speaker 1: If immigrants could never be citizens, get welfare or vote
1:36:40
Speaker 1: MEGA or vote MEGA, will still oppose them racism and
1:36:45
Speaker 1: zero sum mentality.
1:36:48
Speaker 3: I think that's right. Sadly from Mega, that's true.
1:36:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, because even Trump got I think closed or maybe
1:37:00
Speaker 2: record numbers of votes from Hispanic voters and naturalized citizens
1:37:07
Speaker 2: and or not, and still here we are.
1:37:11
Speaker 3: I don't think you will again. We'll see, all right.
1:37:15
Speaker 1: A Roman says, what do you answer people who oppose
1:37:19
Speaker 1: immigration because they.
1:37:20
Speaker 3: Fear for their lives and jobs? How do you convince
1:37:25
Speaker 3: them to support immigration?
1:37:29
Speaker 2: So I don't know that if having a conversation or something,
1:37:33
Speaker 2: you can convince someone to support immigration. But I can
1:37:39
Speaker 2: tell you one thing that I challenge is the all saying, oh,
1:37:46
Speaker 2: the immigrants take the jobs, which has been I've done
1:37:51
Speaker 2: research on this and has been a thing since the
1:37:54
Speaker 2: eighteen hundreds, So it's nothing new at all. Most of
1:37:58
Speaker 2: the arguments against immigration are old, really really old is
1:38:03
Speaker 2: early eighteen hundreds, sometimes late seventeen hundreds. So yeah, I
1:38:09
Speaker 2: always challenge that premise. It's, you know, because what you're
1:38:14
Speaker 2: essentially saying when you're saying they take all the jobs,
1:38:17
Speaker 2: like the jobs, it's like you, because you were born here,
1:38:20
Speaker 2: you have a right to a job, and you have
1:38:23
Speaker 2: a right to force an employer to hire you over
1:38:26
Speaker 2: someone else that they want to hire because you were
1:38:29
Speaker 2: born here. So that premise of usually part of what
1:38:34
Speaker 2: I challenge is that premise of you know, if they
1:38:38
Speaker 2: take the jobs, and the jobs belong to someone, and
1:38:41
Speaker 2: if the jobs belong to someone, then someone is being
1:38:43
Speaker 2: forced to provide those jobs to the Americans. So that
1:38:48
Speaker 2: is one of the things that I challenged, and honestly,
1:38:50
Speaker 2: I've found people were like, you know, when you can
1:38:53
Speaker 2: tell the person who's like, oh, I haven't thought about
1:38:56
Speaker 2: that before. So that that's part of what I do.
1:39:02
Speaker 2: But also it is really being afraid. It's it's being
1:39:09
Speaker 2: afraid of competition. It's you know, being afraid that you're
1:39:14
Speaker 2: that you can't get better and you cannot compete with
1:39:17
Speaker 2: an immigrant who is another person again, is not an alien,
1:39:23
Speaker 2: that is, you know, more capable than you inherently or anything.
1:39:29
Speaker 2: So you know, to be an American, compete, you know,
1:39:32
Speaker 2: get better, improved.
1:39:35
Speaker 3: Yep.
1:39:36
Speaker 1: And and just as a reality, economically, immigrants create more
1:39:40
Speaker 1: jobs than the so called.
1:39:42
Speaker 2: Tic Yeah, it's it's true though people, I think there
1:39:48
Speaker 2: are so many If if you were a matter essentially
1:39:51
Speaker 2: of telling people all the economic arguments in favor of immigration,
1:39:56
Speaker 2: we would be we were doing a completely difference. People
1:40:00
Speaker 2: don't care. It's it's I don't. I think it's pretty
1:40:03
Speaker 2: abstract to them.
1:40:04
Speaker 3: Yep.
1:40:04
Speaker 2: And it doesn't I don't know, it just does not.
1:40:07
Speaker 3: Well again, it's more red herrings.
1:40:09
Speaker 1: It's it's the ultimate thing that they object to is
1:40:12
Speaker 1: they have a zero sum mentality, so they don't get
1:40:14
Speaker 1: the economics. And they do believe that they're entitled to
1:40:18
Speaker 1: a job because they were born in They don't want competition.
1:40:23
Speaker 1: It's the same reason they opposed trade, because they're competing
1:40:25
Speaker 1: with some guy in China is workie and that's not
1:40:28
Speaker 1: acceptable to them. They have this job, they always had
1:40:30
Speaker 1: this job, and they should keep this job. A Roman asked,
1:40:34
Speaker 1: are you a globalist?
1:40:38
Speaker 2: Me? Yeah, can you define that.
1:40:42
Speaker 3: No, it's an antic concept. So there is no such
1:40:44
Speaker 3: thing as a globalist romans. So it's it's it's it's meaningless,
1:40:49
Speaker 3: completely meaningless. Nwick.
1:40:54
Speaker 1: What led to immigration restrictions beginning in the nineteen twenties
1:40:57
Speaker 1: and earlier.
1:41:00
Speaker 2: I have a talk that I gave in twenty twenty
1:41:02
Speaker 2: four at Okon about this topic. You can find it.
1:41:07
Speaker 2: It's called America's History of Immigration Restrictions. So I give
1:41:12
Speaker 2: like a thorough explanation in that talk, but I can
1:41:16
Speaker 2: tell you essentially it was philosophically, it was essentially tribalism
1:41:26
Speaker 2: and these So we've been talking about just now about
1:41:31
Speaker 2: the jobs. So the first big immigration restriction was the
1:41:35
Speaker 2: Chinese Exclusion Act the in eighteen eighty two, and that
1:41:43
Speaker 2: excluded the Chinese because there were all these concerns about
1:41:49
Speaker 2: the Chinese work harder and they work like sixteen hours
1:41:53
Speaker 2: a day and we cannot compete with that, or the Chinese,
1:41:56
Speaker 2: you know, they look different, they eat different food like
1:41:59
Speaker 2: you can see these tribalism in discussions in newspapers at
1:42:03
Speaker 2: the time and everything, and they were declared an invasion
1:42:06
Speaker 2: the Chinese is similar to what we hear today and
1:42:10
Speaker 2: then after that, what essentially happened is a lot of
1:42:19
Speaker 2: really bad pseudoscientific research, so to speak, and claim started
1:42:27
Speaker 2: gaining traction, and there were a lot of people saying that,
1:42:33
Speaker 2: you know, immigrants from Eastern Europe are inherently lazy, or
1:42:38
Speaker 2: are inherently flawed, or are inherently just you know, they're
1:42:44
Speaker 2: affecting the racial stock of America and we cannot have that.
1:42:48
Speaker 2: And a lot of people don't know that a lot
1:42:51
Speaker 2: of the reasoning behind the Johnson roar in nineteen twenty
1:42:54
Speaker 2: four was eugenics and trying to keep the quot racial
1:42:59
Speaker 2: purity of America. In fact, there was this book called
1:43:05
Speaker 2: The Passing of the Great Race by an author called
1:43:08
Speaker 2: Madison Grant, who was a notorious I kind of pronounce it.
1:43:14
Speaker 2: He was the favorite eleergenics who his book was cited
1:43:22
Speaker 2: in congressional debates over the Johnson read Act. And then
1:43:26
Speaker 2: Adolf Hitler would write a letter I forget to whom,
1:43:31
Speaker 2: but he would write that that book was his Bible,
1:43:35
Speaker 2: as he called it, and part of what inspired his own,
1:43:39
Speaker 2: you know, insane ideology that ended up in the Holocaust.
1:43:42
Speaker 2: The same book that inspired Johnson react in nineteen twenty four,
1:43:46
Speaker 2: So there was a lot of that are going on
1:43:49
Speaker 2: and then people ate that up. And in that talk
1:43:56
Speaker 2: that I gave, I show how these horrible ideas permeated
1:44:01
Speaker 2: the culture and how people were even you saw ads
1:44:05
Speaker 2: on the newspaper and you know, just people really embracing
1:44:09
Speaker 2: these eugenics and they were in favor of many of
1:44:12
Speaker 2: these restrictions to in order to preserve this coo racial
1:44:17
Speaker 2: purity of America if America.
1:44:19
Speaker 1: Were a race, Jacob, do we underestimate the damage caused
1:44:26
Speaker 1: by World War One?
1:44:27
Speaker 3: So much damage the culture, way of life.
1:44:30
Speaker 1: Immigration came from immigration restriction I guess came from was
1:44:35
Speaker 1: soon after World War One?
1:44:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's I mean the immigration restriction started before.
1:44:45
Speaker 3: That.
1:44:46
Speaker 2: They had started to gainst team play before that. But yeah,
1:44:51
Speaker 2: there were many people coming here after the war, which
1:44:55
Speaker 2: probably exacerbated this. This is you I haven't particularly looked
1:45:04
Speaker 2: into that in detail, so, I mean, other than you know,
1:45:07
Speaker 2: there were many people escaping the world coming to America.
1:45:11
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's possible that it is underestimated. What do
1:45:13
Speaker 2: you think you're on?
1:45:15
Speaker 3: Yeah?
1:45:15
Speaker 1: I think World War One is a major, major turning
1:45:18
Speaker 1: point in Western history. I think it's the end of
1:45:22
Speaker 1: the nineteenth century. It's the end of the optimism. Confidence
1:45:25
Speaker 1: in Western civilization is destroyed. A whole generation of young people.
1:45:31
Speaker 1: A young man die, you know, the and iinman said,
1:45:36
Speaker 1: some way I can stream a way. She said something
1:45:39
Speaker 1: like if you if, if you didn't glimpse kind of
1:45:43
Speaker 1: the pre World War one world, you don't know what
1:45:47
Speaker 1: life can be.
1:45:48
Speaker 3: Right, So there was a there was a.
1:45:51
Speaker 1: Sense of optimism and positive, you know, a positive view
1:45:57
Speaker 1: of life, a benevolence that just never came back to
1:45:59
Speaker 1: the West after that. The trench warfare all over Europe,
1:46:04
Speaker 1: the millions of kids that died just horrific. And I
1:46:08
Speaker 1: think that that just deflated a lot of people. It
1:46:11
Speaker 1: turned them towards eugenics even more so, and it made
1:46:17
Speaker 1: the West much more defensive and much more scared, and
1:46:20
Speaker 1: much more afraid, and much less confident in its own values.
1:46:24
Speaker 1: And I think two happens as a consequence. And I
1:46:28
Speaker 1: think the immigration restrictions and a lot of bad things
1:46:31
Speaker 1: happened around the same time.
1:46:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, for sure, But what I'm so the eugenics
1:46:37
Speaker 2: movements in America and in respects immigration started.
1:46:41
Speaker 3: Before, starts well before.
1:46:42
Speaker 1: But I think that I think all the one accelerates
1:46:46
Speaker 1: all the bad trends. It makes them stronger, it makes
1:46:48
Speaker 1: them bigger because of that loss of trust in civilization
1:46:55
Speaker 1: and Western civilization, its ability to progress, and its morality
1:46:59
Speaker 1: after the horrors of war to one. But it's yeah,
1:47:04
Speaker 1: it's interesting. It's worthy of study. At some point, somebody
1:47:09
Speaker 1: should write a book. Layan writes, what do you think
1:47:13
Speaker 1: of the movies about immigration, like Green Card or The Proposal?
1:47:20
Speaker 1: I haven't watched them, Okay, so I can't remember The Proposal.
1:47:23
Speaker 1: I can't remember what that's about. But I really like
1:47:26
Speaker 1: Green Cord. Green Card is a fun movie. Is yo
1:47:27
Speaker 1: all Dipeldu who who is a is a immigrant to
1:47:34
Speaker 1: the not an immigrant. He's got a visa in the
1:47:37
Speaker 1: United States, so he but he wants to stay. So
1:47:40
Speaker 1: he marries this American for the green card and they
1:47:44
Speaker 1: set it up and then they try to fool the
1:47:49
Speaker 1: the immigration agents that come to interview them and determine
1:47:53
Speaker 1: that they're really married and all of that. So they
1:47:56
Speaker 1: have to learn about each other and everything, and in
1:47:58
Speaker 1: the process, of course, they fall in love. But then
1:48:01
Speaker 1: he gets deported because they realize because their agents discover.
1:48:04
Speaker 3: That anyway, it's a cute movie.
1:48:06
Speaker 1: It shows the insanity of the and the lengths to
1:48:11
Speaker 1: which people will go in order to become American citizens.
1:48:15
Speaker 3: And I'm I'm gill. That is, you do what you
1:48:20
Speaker 3: have to do to become an American citizen. I always said.
1:48:23
Speaker 1: People would say, yeah, you're on you're a legal immigrants,
1:48:26
Speaker 1: so you're okay, And that's say, you know, if I
1:48:28
Speaker 1: couldn't come here illegally, I would have come illegally and
1:48:30
Speaker 1: I would have found a way.
1:48:32
Speaker 3: And that always stops them. Uh, that's the reality.
1:48:35
Speaker 1: If if, if you, if your values are such that
1:48:40
Speaker 1: America is the place to live, the only place to live,
1:48:44
Speaker 1: then you find a way to get you. So I
1:48:47
Speaker 1: like the movie. I like Jall de Padu. So you know,
1:48:50
Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's a it's a comedy. It's
1:48:53
Speaker 1: a romantic comedy.
1:48:55
Speaker 3: It's fun. I think you'd like it.
1:48:58
Speaker 2: Maybe I'll watched it. Maybe I'll don't make the one movie,
1:49:00
Speaker 2: make that one movie I watched this year, he called.
1:49:03
Speaker 1: Green cod I don't know if it's the one movie
1:49:05
Speaker 1: I would encourage you to watch this year, but it's
1:49:07
Speaker 1: it's a decent movie.
1:49:10
Speaker 3: There are great movies that you should watch this year.
1:49:12
Speaker 3: But that's for another time.
1:49:15
Speaker 1: Let's see Roman, how should immigrants with convictions breaching the
1:49:22
Speaker 1: penalty code. I don't know what that means, and their
1:49:25
Speaker 1: potential threat to commit crimes be treated by the state. Well,
1:49:30
Speaker 1: if they're criminals, they should be put in jail or
1:49:33
Speaker 1: deported or both.
1:49:35
Speaker 3: I guess. I'm not sure what the question is.
1:49:38
Speaker 2: And if they're trying to come to the US, it's
1:49:41
Speaker 2: been probably probably shouldn't be let in, depending on what
1:49:46
Speaker 2: the crime is, if it's a violent crime, for instance,
1:49:49
Speaker 2: And I say depending on what the crime is, because
1:49:53
Speaker 2: you can literally be accused of a crime of terrorism
1:49:56
Speaker 2: by the Venezuelan government, as Maria Corina Machello has been,
1:49:59
Speaker 2: for instance, the opposition leader in Venezuela. And it's yes,
1:50:03
Speaker 2: it's not true, and rightly she's been she I think
1:50:07
Speaker 2: she's currently still in America. She's been let in into
1:50:09
Speaker 2: America because those charges are.
1:50:11
Speaker 1: Not real and because because she gave then over price
1:50:15
Speaker 1: to chump, So how can he not allow her to
1:50:18
Speaker 1: stay in America?
1:50:21
Speaker 3: Roman says, what is national security?
1:50:26
Speaker 2: That's a great question. I think that nowadays anything can
1:50:32
Speaker 2: be everything, and anything is done in the name of
1:50:35
Speaker 2: national security. So we need an objective definition of what
1:50:39
Speaker 2: is national security. And because that has become maybe it
1:50:45
Speaker 2: always probably you will notice better than medium, it was
1:50:49
Speaker 2: maybe not ever well defined what it actually is. So
1:50:53
Speaker 2: we need a real good concept, true objective concept of
1:50:57
Speaker 2: what that is. Because right now everything is natural, everything
1:51:01
Speaker 2: is an emergency, or everything is done in the interest
1:51:04
Speaker 2: of national security.
1:51:05
Speaker 1: No, it's become an excuse for statists to take control
1:51:08
Speaker 1: of our lives. You know, it's basically the protection of
1:51:13
Speaker 1: individual rights of America, the rights of Americans, their lives
1:51:16
Speaker 1: and their property from the protection from foreigners.
1:51:19
Speaker 3: So to the extent that somebody.
1:51:21
Speaker 1: Poses a threat to the lives of property of Americans,
1:51:25
Speaker 1: you can ban them for national security reasons. National security
1:51:28
Speaker 1: relates to the lives and property of Americans, and there
1:51:32
Speaker 1: are very few people like that.
1:51:34
Speaker 3: So that's terrorists right in the context of immigration, it's.
1:51:38
Speaker 1: Spies, like if Russia sends a bunch of people who
1:51:41
Speaker 1: are going to spy for Russia, that's a violation of
1:51:44
Speaker 1: national security. But that's about it. Terrorists and spies. I
1:51:46
Speaker 1: can't think of any other category there would be that,
1:51:50
Speaker 1: you know, Islamists in the context of you understand the war,
1:51:57
Speaker 1: you'll engage in with the Islamist move the jihadi movement.
1:52:02
Speaker 1: It's a subsection of Muslims who are committed to the
1:52:05
Speaker 1: destruction of the West. There are threats to national security
1:52:08
Speaker 1: because they want to overturn the government of the US.
1:52:10
Speaker 3: So things like that.
1:52:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, AmAm on you see voting as a privilege and
1:52:18
Speaker 1: not a right. Could you expand on that please, Well,
1:52:20
Speaker 1: for another time, we can get into this. I think
1:52:22
Speaker 1: I've spoken this in the past. I don't think voting
1:52:25
Speaker 1: is that important in a free society. Voting is a
1:52:29
Speaker 1: relatively minor issue. There's not a lot to vote on.
1:52:34
Speaker 1: The voting is not that important, you know. But it's
1:52:38
Speaker 1: really really important that the people who vote know the
1:52:41
Speaker 1: system of government that they are supposed to vote about.
1:52:44
Speaker 1: And I think anybody who's going to vote should have
1:52:46
Speaker 1: to pass a test that you understand the Constitution, you
1:52:50
Speaker 1: understand the Declaration, not the kind of test they do today,
1:52:52
Speaker 1: which is you memorize a bunch of answers to a
1:52:55
Speaker 1: bunch of questions, but a real deep understanding of the
1:52:58
Speaker 1: nature of government, not an opinion about it, just the
1:53:02
Speaker 1: nature of art.
1:53:03
Speaker 3: So when you vote, you're voting with some knowledge of
1:53:08
Speaker 3: at least the system that's engaged in it.
1:53:11
Speaker 1: If you also think about it just mathematically, your vote
1:53:14
Speaker 1: doesn't count. It doesn't matter.
1:53:17
Speaker 3: You.
1:53:18
Speaker 1: Most of us go to vote to satisfy our own
1:53:22
Speaker 1: sense of we want to vote, we want a voice,
1:53:25
Speaker 1: we want to you know, take a claim.
1:53:28
Speaker 3: It doesn't really matter in the big picture. So I
1:53:32
Speaker 3: just don't think voting is that important.
1:53:33
Speaker 1: Citizenship is important for other reasons, As Augustina said, You
1:53:37
Speaker 1: get a passport so you get to travel. You can
1:53:40
Speaker 1: give up your previous citizenship so you don't get taxed,
1:53:42
Speaker 1: you don't get regulated.
1:53:44
Speaker 3: So there are issues with citizenship that do not relate
1:53:46
Speaker 3: to voting. I think voting is a separate issue.
1:53:52
Speaker 1: And you know, in an ideal world, it's not clear
1:53:57
Speaker 1: you need passports. I mean, a lot of things would
1:54:01
Speaker 1: be different in in a in a in an ideal world.
1:54:05
Speaker 1: So I'm not going to get hung up on an
1:54:07
Speaker 1: issue of voting because it's not like that's an important
1:54:10
Speaker 1: issue right now. That is, that is not what we're
1:54:14
Speaker 1: fighting about, all right. Jackson says, I can't wait to
1:54:18
Speaker 1: read Yo and Brandon's essay. Nothing has provided me as
1:54:22
Speaker 1: much joy since I started studying objectivism. Then Iran's biography,
1:54:27
Speaker 1: her life was greater than fiction. Someone please make a movie,
1:54:32
Speaker 1: a good one. We need a good movie.
1:54:34
Speaker 2: Good. Yeah, I'll watch that movie.
1:54:37
Speaker 3: Oh, even Christina will watch a movie about Ironman. That's good.
1:54:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, thank you. The articles come in later this week,
1:54:46
Speaker 2: by the end of the week, and we're really really excited.
1:54:49
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's a story that it's it's really worth
1:54:53
Speaker 2: telling from from specifically from that perspective of, you know,
1:54:56
Speaker 2: an immigrant to America. So I'm very excited.
1:55:00
Speaker 1: Excellent, all right, Danielle asks, how did you get into Inland?
1:55:06
Speaker 2: So I heard about her a few years ago, several
1:55:10
Speaker 2: years ago. Now, I guess I'm getting old. So I
1:55:14
Speaker 2: heard about her. I was listening to a to a
1:55:18
Speaker 2: radio show. Was in the United States at that point.
1:55:21
Speaker 2: I was working legally for the Haters. I was working
1:55:26
Speaker 2: in California, North Lake Tahoe in California, and I heard,
1:55:31
Speaker 2: you know that statistic or not a statistics, or that
1:55:34
Speaker 2: fact that people throughout I don't know if it's true anymore,
1:55:37
Speaker 2: but that Adra Shack is the second most influential influential
1:55:41
Speaker 2: book for America, as second.
1:55:44
Speaker 3: To the Bibles on the CEOs and it was never true.
1:55:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, I figured it's a really bad statistic. But and
1:55:56
Speaker 2: someone said like that when I heard it, commonly, oh
1:55:59
Speaker 2: that's how or something like that. And because I was
1:56:02
Speaker 2: really not a fan of religion anymore, having been raised Catholic,
1:56:06
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, what is that? And he caught
1:56:08
Speaker 2: my attention. So I looked into Adrashrugged, and then the
1:56:13
Speaker 2: rest is history. I read everything I could get my
1:56:15
Speaker 2: hands on. That's a very abbreviated version of the story. Yeah.
1:56:21
Speaker 2: But when I read it, so I was in law school,
1:56:24
Speaker 2: and I was the first year of law school, and
1:56:27
Speaker 2: it was long book. Obviously it was. I had it
1:56:32
Speaker 2: on my computer. It was hard to read. I didn't
1:56:36
Speaker 2: have much time. So I read it, but not with
1:56:39
Speaker 2: the attention and the detail that I should have that
1:56:42
Speaker 2: it deserves, and not with and it took me a
1:56:46
Speaker 2: long time. So I don't even remember if I finished
1:56:51
Speaker 2: it at that point. But I what really got me
1:56:56
Speaker 2: into and Ran was I was at a bookstore in
1:56:59
Speaker 2: Argentina and I saw the Virtual of Selfishness in the
1:57:03
Speaker 2: and I bought it. I thought that I was like, oh,
1:57:06
Speaker 2: this is the same lady, and I bought it. I
1:57:09
Speaker 2: found the title really intriguing and then that's when really
1:57:13
Speaker 2: that's what really impulted me.
1:57:17
Speaker 3: Cool, Marilyn.
1:57:20
Speaker 1: I think some people, especially union members, opposed immigration because
1:57:25
Speaker 1: many immigrants will work harder for less money.
1:57:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's I think that's that's that's true. In for instance,
1:57:35
Speaker 2: you have I remember in twenty sixteen Bernie Sanders coming
1:57:39
Speaker 2: out against immigration because of the unions.
1:57:41
Speaker 3: Essentially that's always anti immigration because of unions.
1:57:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's not like the left is actually pro
1:57:49
Speaker 2: immigration for other reasons too. But like, I mean, we
1:57:54
Speaker 2: can go into a discussion, but the left is not
1:57:58
Speaker 2: pro immigration. But like they favor some immigration, but you
1:58:01
Speaker 2: have to be poor and destitute and an asylum seeker
1:58:04
Speaker 2: or seeking refuge for them to accept you. But they
1:58:08
Speaker 2: are not really that into h one Bb says, because
1:58:11
Speaker 2: it's ambitious people who want to come here to work.
1:58:14
Speaker 2: It's like, so I don't think either the left or
1:58:19
Speaker 2: the right are really pro immigration.
1:58:21
Speaker 1: So lond Sans says, better ideas is the answer. If
1:58:26
Speaker 1: one understands it, commits to a life of reason, purpose
1:58:28
Speaker 1: and self esteem, they wouldn't waste time thinking about who's
1:58:32
Speaker 1: stealing their jobs, who has.
1:58:34
Speaker 3: What skin to skin tone. Yes, I think that's absolutely right.
1:58:40
Speaker 3: A woman asks, have you read Infidel by Iron hoc Eli.
1:58:44
Speaker 2: I did, no, not Infidel. Actually I read Pray not Infidel.
1:58:55
Speaker 3: Okay, which is a second book.
1:58:56
Speaker 2: I think, yes, the second third.
1:58:59
Speaker 3: Maybe, Yeah, Infidel is a great book.
1:59:03
Speaker 1: All right, last question, that's not a question, I guess, rus,
1:59:06
Speaker 1: says Augustina. Watch Brooklyn another movie recommendation. It's one of
1:59:13
Speaker 1: my favorites. It's also about an immigrant. It's just an
1:59:15
Speaker 1: immigration story.
1:59:17
Speaker 3: Oh so if you like immigration stories, you should watch
1:59:21
Speaker 3: immigration movies.
1:59:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'd rather read immigration memoirs and biographies and Whatnot's.
1:59:29
Speaker 3: A reader not a watcher? Okay, Yeah, I don't.
1:59:33
Speaker 2: I mean I will watch shows, but movies it is.
1:59:35
Speaker 2: We can go into all these kind but I don't.
1:59:38
Speaker 2: I don't. I'm not that attracted to movies. It's just.
1:59:46
Speaker 3: Exactly what it is you have seen, nuanautica.
1:59:49
Speaker 2: No, I haven't seen most of the movies that most
1:59:55
Speaker 2: humans have watched.
1:59:58
Speaker 1: All right, I think we go one most thanking of
2:00:00
Speaker 1: Ironman's life. I see that Iron RAN's Sense of Life
2:00:03
Speaker 1: documentary is streaming free on two B. Is it worth watching? Absolutely,
2:00:10
Speaker 1: It's a fabulous documentary. Definitely worth watching.
2:00:14
Speaker 2: I have watched that. Oh, documentaries, by the way, I
2:00:17
Speaker 2: watch a lot of that, Okay, but not movies.
2:00:19
Speaker 3: But yeah, that's movies.
2:00:21
Speaker 2: That documentary is great.
2:00:23
Speaker 1: Yep, definitely worth watching. I didn't I don't know what
2:00:26
Speaker 1: to be is. I guess it's a streaming thing. But
2:00:30
Speaker 1: but yeah, if it's free on two B, definitely watch it.
2:00:32
Speaker 1: It's it's fantastic. I've got the DVD or the Blu
2:00:37
Speaker 1: ray or something somewhere somewhere in the house.
2:00:42
Speaker 3: All Right, this was a pleasure. Thank you, Augustina. Oh
2:00:45
Speaker 3: and more.
2:00:48
Speaker 1: Neo says, when I talk to my immigrant friends and
2:00:51
Speaker 1: I tell them it's their job to integrate into our culture,
2:00:54
Speaker 1: they get mad. They say that the West is about
2:00:57
Speaker 1: different cultures working together.
2:00:59
Speaker 3: Any opinions.
2:01:05
Speaker 2: I I find it interesting that I've never met an
2:01:10
Speaker 2: immigrant that has told me that. And I've met many,
2:01:12
Speaker 2: and I am one myself.
2:01:14
Speaker 1: So.
2:01:16
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't I mean it really, It's like
2:01:21
Speaker 2: the question is just assumes. So many premise like integraate.
2:01:24
Speaker 2: What do you mean integraate? Because right now you have
2:01:27
Speaker 2: people who think that you know, what's his name that
2:01:30
Speaker 2: I went to testify in front of Congress. I think
2:01:32
Speaker 2: it was a director of us. Now, who was it
2:01:34
Speaker 2: that said that it claims that white culture is being raised.
2:01:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, I showed clips of them.
2:01:43
Speaker 2: So when someone without much context tells me that sort
2:01:48
Speaker 2: of thing, I immediately am very like, okay, well, what
2:01:51
Speaker 2: is it that there is that you want them to
2:01:54
Speaker 2: inter it too? Is it that you don't like tackle trucks.
2:01:56
Speaker 2: I'm not saying this person is saying that, but many
2:01:59
Speaker 2: of them are like, yeah, I like the tackle trucks,
2:02:01
Speaker 2: and I don't like this Smellenium food.
2:02:02
Speaker 1: And you know, well he said something about white food.
2:02:05
Speaker 1: He misses white food, the tasteless bland.
2:02:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, what is white food? Even? Like what Burger and Valtario.
2:02:12
Speaker 1: Well, and they don't realize that like French cooking, like
2:02:14
Speaker 1: French cooking that's good, and Italian cooking. The only reason
2:02:17
Speaker 1: those taste good is because in like the fifteenth century
2:02:21
Speaker 1: or the fourteenth century, they started importing spices from the East. Right. Everything,
2:02:27
Speaker 1: any spice, any kind of flavor that exists in European
2:02:31
Speaker 1: cooking has its origins in Asia. European food. If you
2:02:37
Speaker 1: go to England and you ask for British food, you
2:02:39
Speaker 1: can get a sense of this is bland. Tasteless, horrible, disgusting.
2:02:45
Speaker 1: It takes the rest of the world to make European
2:02:47
Speaker 1: food edible.
2:02:50
Speaker 3: That's just my view. Yeah, that's white food.
2:02:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm used to Argentina for a cook. Argentina for
2:02:59
Speaker 2: my I was and my husband, who is an American,
2:03:01
Speaker 2: is extremely happy about that. And it's definitely loveland.
2:03:06
Speaker 1: But that's that's because the Italians who came to Argentina
2:03:10
Speaker 1: got the spices from Asia.
2:03:12
Speaker 2: Yep. But yeah, is it your job, like if if
2:03:17
Speaker 2: you come to America to like respect individual rights and
2:03:22
Speaker 2: to like not violate the rights of other people and
2:03:26
Speaker 2: to be a peaceful person and work and not get
2:03:30
Speaker 2: try to you know, gain the system and get Yeah,
2:03:33
Speaker 2: that is your job, as it's your job to as
2:03:35
Speaker 2: an American to do that if you want to thrive
2:03:38
Speaker 2: in America and if you want to respect what we
2:03:41
Speaker 2: stand for here, which is individual rights. But that's no
2:03:44
Speaker 2: different than people that Americas are immigrants. We all have
2:03:49
Speaker 2: to do that as like very basic thing to live
2:03:52
Speaker 2: in society.
2:03:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, America is also a melting pot, so remind them
2:03:57
Speaker 1: of the melting pot of nowogy. Yeah, you keep the
2:03:59
Speaker 1: good stuff, but you do integrate into the good stuff.
2:04:03
Speaker 1: In America, the principles on which made America. I think
2:04:06
Speaker 1: it is your responsibilities an immigrant to absorb.
2:04:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and of course, like there's there's things that
2:04:15
Speaker 2: that is the most important thing. But then after that,
2:04:18
Speaker 2: if you're peaceful and you know you're not voting anyone's rights,
2:04:21
Speaker 2: and you're not barbaric, which most immigrants are not, then
2:04:26
Speaker 2: that's the basic. But if you want to integrate, Yeah,
2:04:29
Speaker 2: like I love football now and I used to be like,
2:04:31
Speaker 2: I don't understand this game? What even is this? And yeah,
2:04:34
Speaker 2: it's a quintessentially American sport and it's great, but that
2:04:38
Speaker 2: you know, I wouldn't be any more or less American
2:04:41
Speaker 2: if I if I didn't like it.
2:04:43
Speaker 1: So yeah, I used to like football, don't anymore. So
2:04:47
Speaker 1: you can even change that. What was your team or
2:04:50
Speaker 1: is forty nine ers San Francisco for the nine Ers?
2:04:53
Speaker 1: Oh no, you're on the best quarterback in all of history,
2:04:58
Speaker 1: Joe Montana was the best qu and then and then
2:05:01
Speaker 1: they had the best they have the best what you
2:05:03
Speaker 1: got wide receiver, I ever, Joey Uyce. They were a
2:05:06
Speaker 1: great team. Late eighties, early nineties, they were amazing.
2:05:12
Speaker 2: Interesting, I became a Lions fan.
2:05:15
Speaker 3: A Lions fan Detroit.
2:05:16
Speaker 2: Oh god, yes, I've never stood foot in Detroit. I
2:05:21
Speaker 2: just got my pick of thirty two teams, and I
2:05:23
Speaker 2: looked into them and I watched documentaries and I picked
2:05:26
Speaker 2: the Lions.
2:05:27
Speaker 1: So I don't watch football anymore. It's too violent, so
2:05:31
Speaker 1: I've I've written it off. So I like good quarterbacks,
2:05:35
Speaker 1: so I usually gravitate towards the teams that have great quarterbacks.
2:05:40
Speaker 2: Well, Jared Goff with the Lions is great.
2:05:43
Speaker 3: I don't watch football anymore, so I don't know you. Yeah,
2:05:46
Speaker 3: I'm missing out, all right, Thanks Agustina. It's good to
2:05:50
Speaker 3: see you. Thank you here having sure, bye bye, guys,
2:05:57
Speaker 3: I will see you. I will see you tomorrow. Um tomorrow.
2:06:03
Speaker 3: Three p m s constin three pms costin by everybody.
2:06:09
Speaker 1: Mm hmm