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Occultinarium - EP 5 - Q/K/Cabbalah Introduction · OCCULTINARIUM

• Lynn: Hello and welcome to tonight's episode of the Occultinarium. We are the voices of the Occultinarium and today's hosts are... Luigi: Luigi Amelie: I'm a lady. Lynn: Lynn Today's is quite an exciting one I think because we are going to dive a little bit into the Kabbalah Q K C knows we will talk about it ⁓ the of life and there's a lot to talk about and there's so to explore and I personally I'm at the surface of understanding it or you know even comprehending the whole thing Luigi: Hahaha Amelie: You Lynn: So I'm pretty sure we're gonna have several episodes dedicated to this huge topic. today we're just gonna play a little bit with ideas ⁓ have a little intro session of ⁓ we got introduced to it and ⁓ we think about it ⁓ ⁓ we know about it ⁓ all that. And before we dive in... because that's our little tradition, we are going to pull a secret tarot card that we were going to reveal at the end of the episode. And today's honor went to me. So I will shuffle my deck. And using the Thoth deck again. I should just ⁓ change deck these episodes. sorry. ⁓ Make it ⁓ Amelie: Yeah, maybe that could be something exciting. Luigi: Ha ha, spicy rap. ⁓ Lynn: Just hit people with a completely different deck. I was like, let's discuss this one. I should do that. Amelie: I should do that. I'm up for it. Lynn: Yeah. Luigi: Especially since most of us, we got so many decks. Amelie: Yeah, it's nice to use them. Nice to use them for different things. Yeah. Lynn: So many decks, so much to discuss. Yeah. ⁓ absolutely. And show them off and then, you know. All righty. Let's see what we got. All right. this will be good. OK, this is going to be good. All right. ⁓ So is pulled. So that for. Let's see. of the three of us, think Luigi is the one who is most, what say, knowledgeable, ⁓ about it. We could maybe start addressing the spelling first. We were to go into history as well, but Adriana... Luigi: Versatile. Yeah, yeah. Lynn: knows a bit more about it and she unfortunately couldn't join us today so we'll cover this in a different episode so nothing for the history freaks today I think but yeah if you talk about a little bit about the different spellings of it to start with Luigi: Hahaha Yes, so obviously, full disclaimer for everybody listening to the episode today, none of us claim to be experts, but we are ⁓ in the ⁓ in the Tree of Life, ⁓ have been for a few years through our studies, through passion. So we're going to talk about it from a perspective of what we learn on our journey ⁓ and a perspective, most of all, of our passion towards it. So yeah, I think... ⁓ Lynn: you Luigi: Kabbalah, Kabbalah, like, you know, where is the accent? That's also another mystery, another question. But yeah, I think you may come across ⁓ least, at the very least, three different versions of how it's spelled, like Lynn said just now. ⁓ you may come across a version spelled with a K and usually two Bs. And you may come across a version spelled with a C rather than a K. Ultimately, the that I use, and I think if I can say this, ⁓ that... Both Amelie and Lini, you also came across this system through our studies and our common history. It's the one with a Q. So Kabbalah is spelled with a Q and with one B, I suppose, as well. ⁓ it's worth pointing out that spelling, so Kabbalah, for those of us who may know about this, may not know about this, ⁓ Kabbalah rooted in ⁓ Jewish mysticism traditions. and Hebrew being an incredibly beautiful language is also, and many authors speak about this, it's also quite tricky to translate. So take every translation, especially the ones that will throw you away with a grain of salt, entertain sit with them, meditate with them, and enjoy them. So yeah, you will have it spelled with a K, C, or Q, and what are the differences? So if it's spelled with a K, it will usually refer to the... I don't know if original is the right word, but let's use it. Original, OJ, means Jewish mysticism tradition. But if you spell with a C, it refers to ⁓ Christian spin that the Christians of the time gave the system of the tree of life. Lynn: questions. Luigi: And then if it's spelled with a Q, that speaks of not necessarily a more modern one, but definitely a more eclectic one, I suppose, because the one spelled with a Q is also referred to as Hermetic. So it's rooted in the beliefs and and the traditions of Hermeticism, which we can talk about in more detail even later or in another episode. ⁓ that's the one that I think I, and ⁓ would say even Amelie and Lynn, were most versatile on. ⁓ the Hermetic will draw from... a plethora of different traditions, different belief systems, including alchemy, like we said, hermeticism, a bit of paganism is in there as well. list can go ⁓ and on on. So Yeah, ⁓ I the Golden Dawn, although like the Hermetic Kabbalah technically came out of the... came out of the spotlight, I suppose, came out into the spotlight around the Renaissance ⁓ era, apologies. ⁓ Lynn: the golden dawn is like, yeah. Yeah. Luigi: ⁓ guess the people of the Golden Dawn that we know of, they were not alive ⁓ unless they know something that we don't, ⁓ know, like immortals and the Illuminati, etc. But yeah, you're completely right though. The hermetic order, again the word hermetic comes up again, but the hermetic order of the Golden Dawn is the one that definitely brought Kabbalah in the mainstream, whether it's the occultism mainstream or simply the media mainstream. Lynn: eternal life. ⁓ Amelie: ⁓ yes. Luigi: and that would have been around the end of the 1800s, beginning of the 1900s. So in that regard, you can think of it as modern, suppose. Lynn: Mm. Yeah, I was sure anyway. mean, we can talk about the use, if we can say, of it as well later, but the way that I feel like we, or at least me, let's start, I can talk about myself. The way I got introduced to it was mostly through terror. Although I do remember faintly like 20 years, no, no. 15 years ago, think. Not that old, yeah. But I was, lived in Ireland for like a year as an au pair. And that was in my, ⁓ was already a pagan then, ⁓ like a heathen. ⁓ ⁓ I connected with the pagan people ⁓ the area, in Cork, I was living in Cork. And so, and they had like a weekly, yeah, they had weekly meetings ⁓ stuff and they, did... Luigi: Hahaha Lynn: They also had some lectures in a sense. And I remember one of the guys there, he did a lecture on the Kabbalah and I'd never before that ever heard anything about it. Like it was a fresh concept. ⁓ I just remember like he drew like on the blackboard. It was also like really classic, know, still with blackboards and with like, you know, ⁓ chalk. ⁓ drew it on the blackboard and I was just like, I remember I so zoned out because this was like just ⁓ I did like. Luigi: hahaha Lynn: I understood like nothing about it, like I had never heard anything. So I was just like for my 19 year old self, it was too much. remember it very little. I just remember that it was like this whole new concept I've never heard about that seemed like really deep and really like mystical and magical. But I did not have the sense for it at that point of time. you know, ⁓ it was the path ⁓ for me. Luigi: Hmm. there. Lynn: to jump into that at that point. I knew like I had this fascination. I was like, this is fascinating. I just have no idea what it's supposed to be or what it means or what it means for me. And now with being so much deeper into the tarot system for myself, and I mean, always you don't have, I guess you don't have to know anything about the Kabbalah to be able to do tarot maybe, but I feel it's a very big. It means rooted on it, like the system is based off of it. it definitely helps a lot knowing something about the Kabbalah and being able to draw ⁓ It just made my entire tarot game so more versatile and so much more deep. yeah, just so much about it. And it's ⁓ really just super I just feel, yeah, like, mean, what is it? ⁓ Is it a to life? I don't know. What is it? Luigi: Yeah, I mean, can be so many things, like you said, a map. You can use it as a map to understand the process of manifestation and even as a secret. I use the word secret loosely, but for the purpose of entertainment, a secret guide to enlightenment, even a system of emanation. There's so many ways to refer to it. And I guess this is part of the beauty of the tree itself. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Luigi: It's a system that has been around for quite some time and has its structure and has its symbolism and yet once you start applying it to your own life or once you start your own journey with this system, it takes a shape of its own, which is very unique to you and your identity and it helps you get to know you on a deeper level, I suppose. And you said something very poignant there. Lynn: you Luigi: which is also a reason of debate in many circles. I'm Amelie, we'll come to you in a second, but I've also discovered the tree through Taro. And obviously I discovered Taro first and then the tree. ⁓ And you need the tree to do Taro? Do you need Taro to do the tree? Well, who knows? My humble is that if you use them together, none of them is bigger than the other, but if you, ⁓ they need another, almost like... ⁓ almost like the tree needs both days of rains and days of sunlight, etc. So again, you said that as well, in your own words, if you use them, I don't know, your data processes or even readings or journey, they take different shapes and different shades. There will a bit of a commotion, a positive commotion, know, things are not going to be so ⁓ status quo. I say that in a Lynn: Mm. Luigi: in an adventurous and exciting way. There's definitely an element of, oh wow, things that I could never have thought of, dreamed of, visioned. Here they are, here they are, right here at the palm of my hands, basically. Lynn: Yeah, and the connection, mean also just the connections. I mean, there are so many systems and we're to talk a lot about tarot because we're tarot people. But it's just, you know, if you just pick up a tarot deck for the first time and then, you know, you knock, OK, there's a major arcana, there's a minor arcana. OK, I don't know what this means, right? It goes from one to so and so and then from zero to ten and whoop whoop. But it seems... Amelie: you Luigi: Yeah. Lynn: not connect or you don't understand the connections, right? Or it's like, it's just, you know, it's just something that somebody made up. mean, it is right. But I mean, it's like, hmm. But then when you more of it and then you apply also the tree of life or the Kabbalah to it, and then you suddenly see the connections from from to the other. And how is like, you know, how, you know, how is, for example, the death card ⁓ to the attestment or attestus, know, or what is, you know, like things like that. So it's, yeah, I don't know. It's just huge. Luigi: Yeah, it draws you in though, it draws you in. And I think a beautiful metaphor for it, the tree uses a symbolism of a tree. ⁓ if you look at the tree as I don't know, as a house or as a temple, ⁓ something that you can just stare ⁓ in awe and be like, but that's why meant, I used the word house in the beginning, then the tarot becomes the different keys that you can open and access the different rooms in that house, the different rooms in that temple. ⁓ ⁓ the structure of everything is built and everything connects and everything takes you to somewhere different. ⁓ Yeah, I that's how I experienced it somehow. ⁓ And obviously was aware of Taro even in childhood because he came about whether in conversation or through the media. ⁓ But yeah, tree did not come around until I discovered Taro. Lynn: Mm. and Luigi: I basically I was recommended a book, which is a beautiful book. It's the Tarot Bible by Sarah Bartlett. It's a bit of a standard. When I say standard, meaning like it's the go-to. If you're learning Tarot, you may want to get your hands on this book and sit with it, play with it. But basically Sarah mentions the Tree of Life towards the very end of the book, but only for like a couple of pages. So she gave us like this entire book, you know, with so many pieces of information about the minors, the court, the majors. ⁓ And then there is this mention of this tree of life, ⁓ I knew the ⁓ tree of life from the necklace that I wore ⁓ I was 16, but that's more of a Celtic reference. ⁓ I was like, ⁓ I wonder what's going on there. ⁓ then the more I tried to approach other people, you know what I found in the book? I found the tree of life. ⁓ a lot of people, even people that were ⁓ practitioners or tarot aficionati, aficionados, Lynn: you Mm. Mm. ⁓ Luigi: a while they were all like, I don't what you mean. What are you talking about? ⁓ You there was an element of why is nobody talking about this ⁓ and I was more intrigued And I just went in it ⁓ Lynn: you Right, yeah. Amelie: Yeah, do agree with you. I had this while when was looking at a lot of people on YouTube do just reviews of cars just ⁓ doing readings and stuff, mostly I just really like ⁓ looking when they're just or even just through different decks and stuff because I find that fascinating. So many of them do say that they don't really want to get into Kabbalah because it feels difficult or they don't feel like they want to study it. There's so many of them and I find it so strange that, you know, why wouldn't you? because it's like if you have been reading cards for so long, wouldn't you want to kind of like take the extra step and have like an extra layer to things? I also noticed that a lot of them say like they prefer, you know, the RWS decks because they like to be more intuitive while they're really scared of the Thoth deck. ⁓ I think that's probably because of the Kovala. Lynn: you Amelie: in it because they feel like, you have to have so much knowledge and you have to study. It's like a study deck. You have to study so much. But I feel like, you can study if you want to. You don't have to. But it just feels like an extra layer. ⁓ it just makes it interesting to know these things. ⁓ know it's nothing to be afraid of. I say this now because maybe in the beginning ⁓ well, ⁓ think just like Yulin. Lynn: Mmm. Amelie: you know, when I first saw it I was like, no idea what this is, I will try to ⁓ this. So I was reading about it and I not have anyone to talk to. ⁓ So was no like, no one I could ask. I just had to like read on my own. And the I was reading the more confused I got. ⁓ I got con, I knew about it, but I was never like, interest in learning it ⁓ I read this book. We been talking about what we're into, but it's a whole other chapter. one of favorite... He's not just author, he's like master, but I've ⁓ been reading a of books, well, all of the books of his. is of Louis Marquet his second book that he published was in public ⁓ was ⁓ Book Orion and in was the Kabbalah tree and his first book basically established what I was feeling about. ⁓ cult things or like within me very personal I just, that just really spoke to me. So for me reading this book with the Kabbalah I was like I need to understand this because obviously it must be very important ⁓ and was reading it and have to reread it ⁓ and what he in the first book is like if you feel like you understand what I've written or don't the chapter Lynn: Mm. Mm. Amelie: don't feel like you should force yourself to read it. Just stop and come back to it whenever you feel like you're ready for it. And that's what I did. I literally stopped at that chapter about Kabbalah. I read it, read it again, the whole chapter. And then I remembered what said before and I was like, I feel like I don't have the skill to understand this. So I stopped. And then I didn't touch it for a while. And then it kind of creeps in, right? You have your tarot deck and obviously you start Googling things and it comes back up again. So I read it again and I felt like, okay, I understand this better. And I was like getting into it. And I think it does really help with the tarot because it's like a map of like a key or a map. it makes things like logical in a way, but you also have the, that intuition of like what these like archetypes are. And so yeah, that's kind of like, I didn't get into it because of Tarot, but it did help. mean, in the book, he also like talks about Tarot as well, but I wasn't like super into it. but yeah, I'm just really like, happy that that was kind of like my first. I don't know, yeah, first touch of it, or first, because it was mentioned, yeah, exactly, because it was mentioned by someone that I connected with so well. it became ⁓ important. So I never kind of gave up on learning more about it. Yeah. Lynn: first touch. Luigi: Encounter. Lynn: Mm. ⁓ think ⁓ of the things you said, Afat, it's quite a key, it? Like you said that maybe, like that they were afraid of it. And I was just like thinking in my head, know, a lot of people, like they're afraid to understand on deeper levels. It's like this, ⁓ that and then how I feel like, because like when I was introduced to it, like say 15 years ago, you know, it was very much all like more like woohoo and like very dark and like this, ⁓ know. Luigi: Yeah. Lynn: dark or not necessarily dark magic, like was still kind of very covered under this very shrouded and kind of, this could be dangerous or whatever kind of thing. Not like I was thinking it, but I feel like, you know, world around me might be thinking, yeah, the perception, like also with tarot, that's similar. We talk about that at some point as well, but ⁓ yeah, know, like RWS or ⁓ Thoth Luigi: there was a perception. Amelie: Yeah. Lynn: A lot of people I know are scared of the Thoth. Nobody around me who reads Tarot uses a Thoth bag and they're all like, ooh, and it's my favorite deck. Once I connected with it, it was just like, anyway, ⁓ aside, this kind of trepidation of understanding on a deeper level, think might connect a little bit with this anxiety to understand yourself on a deeper level. Getting a little philosophical here, but you know, because it does, does unlock so much. And I've always been a little strange in the sense that I'm attracted to things that I'm a little bit scared of because I feel or I've learned that when there's a resistance or when there's a certain type of fear that that is actually showing you like where you're supposed to go. Luigi: Possibly, that's a good point. Yeah. Lynn: And a lot of people are like disagreeing, like, no, there's a bad vibe in this forest. This means you have to stay out, you know, and I've always been the weirdo. It's like, ⁓ this is a little scary. I'll go in respectfully, you know, always, you know, sometimes I get definitive stop signals, you know, but like just this tingly feeling of something is like weird or a little bit scary that that I'm like very I'm like going to be like at the edge of it and being like, OK, but. Luigi: Yeah. Lynn: Is there somebody there? know, is there something there? Yeah. Yeah. Luigi: Yeah can't remember on top of my head specifically, but I remember like Joseph Campbell obviously when he talks about the hero's journey. There's part of the journey that I think it's called the inner cave or the inner most cave could be called something different. But that the part of the hero's journey where ⁓ like you out Lynn, there may be an environment or a situation or a call for action where every single signal says keep out, stay But the only way progress on the hero's journey is to go through the whether it's a place, a physical place, or whether it's just an action, an adventure, a chapter, etc. etc. ⁓ And think, like you said, to do it with respect and to do it with an element of curiosity, again, it really on the situation and reverence, thank you, ⁓ and it really on the situation at hand, because we wouldn't necessarily say, ⁓ yeah, by all means, play with fire, but we're just simply... ⁓ Lynn: Hmm, reverence. Luigi: If there is a resistance, there is a fear, one should or can question what the fear is rooted in an extent. Understand ⁓ fear that seems to be predominating in the given circumstance, I suppose. Lynn: No, no, no, I'm I'm making a face. We know why. Amelie: kind of asking myself like why, why should I be afraid of this? and in my mind I'm like whatever it is, surely we can come to an understanding. I'm always like thinking like yeah it's also like you have to, when you say you have to approach something with caution is more of like a respectful thing. to kind of like maybe also step back sometimes and look at things from like a different perspective or for like ⁓ I and maybe like stop and then ⁓ get more information or get more knowledge or get more experience and then straightforward ⁓ just have like ⁓ it's of like caution not like ⁓ someone is going to eat you alive. Lynn: Hmm. Amelie: but it's almost like if you go through something too fast before you actually reach certain levels of skill as well, then you will not understand it. It's not something that you have to like, there's the goal and you have to get there as soon as possible. Like it is in many, many times in, you know, in normal life where you have to like get to the goal as soon as possible. It's also about like the journey and actually learning something. Lynn: ⁓ Amelie: and not just reading and memorizing, it's also about like experiencing different aspects of things and it's good to experience being scared and it's good to experience like all like the bad feelings as well. Otherwise you have no idea how it feels like, you know, it's just a part of the journey. And I think the caution there as well is because not like, not everybody can handle certain Lynn: Yeah. Mm. Mm. Luigi: and Amelie: aspects of things and... ⁓ Lynn: Yeah, it's also just like I feel that very often just as a test and and sometimes we we make it through the test and sometimes we don't but that doesn't mean that if you Say fail test that doesn't mean that you failed necessarily. It just tells you that You're not there yet. Like for example, like me like my first contact with the Kabbalah I wasn't you know, I was I found it very fascinating but it's like I wasn't there I didn't pick it up until like ⁓ 12 years later or something. And then suddenly it was just like making so much more sense. And I wouldn't have been able to this back then. I don't think I would have because I didn't have this connection to the tarot either. So it was a very like a concept that was ⁓ far away from my applications of magic or paganism or whatever the stage that I was back there, know. And ⁓ now I more in my backpack like more tools and more understanding now it's a completely different thing. ⁓ Luigi: Yeah, and I think you hinted at something very relevant there. I think a lot of us as people, we tend to be drawn to concrete, you know, I want something that will have a beginning, a middle, and possibly an end, especially in terms of learning, you wanna master the learning. And that can, by all means, that can happen with tarot and the Tree of Life slash Kabbalah, et cetera. But I think a beautiful thing about tarot, and ultimately about the Tree of Life and Kabbalah, is that it's a... an ever-going, ever-flowing, ever-growing journey. If you're seeking, by this date I would have mastered the whole of it. You might have mastered the aspects of it, depending on how you would use it in your life. But it's almost a companion, both Taro and the tree. I refer to them separately, but in a way it's almost like talking about the same thing. ⁓ almost a companion that never leaves you. Lynn: Hmm. Luigi: ⁓ through life. as you change in your life, both the tarot and the tree will change with you and that can be destabilizing perhaps because you're like, ⁓ but where is the consistency? But that's the thing, the consistency is in the ever flowing, ever going, ever growing evolution of yourself as well as the magical keys that you have in your hands, you know, the cards and the tree, etc. Lynn: We're going, yeah, this is exciting. We're going off on like so many tangents and touching upon so many things, to it back to bring it back to to the tree of life, I will I think for for our viewers rather than our listeners, I'll bring up an image that found on Internet if belongs to somebody, please say, ⁓ please say, tell us. an image of it so that for those of you that don't actually know what the hell we're talking about. Luigi: Hahaha! Lynn: what it even looks like. ⁓ will pull up an image and then maybe we can start if you want to talk about the structure because there's pillars and things. So ⁓ yeah, ⁓ so will just put this up here. ⁓ So there we have an image and there's some tarot images here on it as well. So you ⁓ can just don't to too much into that like the viewers. Luigi: Yeah. That is... ⁓ Lynn: which is focusing on the Luigi: So think like one thing that we might have mentioned before, but we're going to mention it now, like kebala. What does kebala mean? And it generally translates to to receive. ⁓ So supposed be receiving something. ⁓ But what something is, both myself and Amelie and Lynn, we have some ideas and there are some ⁓ ideas that not even ours. They're just like part of the traditions in terms to what we're supposed to receive. ⁓ But I to... answer that question now will be premature. So we'll let you just sit with the translation of the work, Kabbalah. And then later on, we have to remind ourselves this, but later on, at some point during our journey with podcast, we'll go back to the attempt to answer that. But as you can see from the image, so you've got 10 circles connected by what we will call branches and or ⁓ paths, I suppose, ⁓ refer traditionally. And the circles, usually they are referred to as, like Lynn pointed out, Sephirot. Sephirot will refer to the plural of the word, and Sephirah's word speaks the individual one. And ⁓ what Sephirot translate to? That's another of hands, because there several translations. I think you translate it roughly into... You can translate it Lynn: Do do do do do do. for all the Final Fantasy fans out there. Luigi: Yeah. can translate it roughly into spheres, also like a ⁓ shining sapphire perhaps, ⁓ or simply emanations, because that's the thing about the tree. I guess if you to put it into one plane, not plane, but in one ⁓ singular concept, is all about emanation, involves a system of emanation. And as you can see, the tree is organized with this tensephira, or tensephira rather. and it goes from 1 to 10, so 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, And those different numbers obviously refer to the different stages of the evolution of that emanation. And yeah, you see that the way that they organized, so you have the 1 at the very top, and in terms of the tree, the number 1 called Kether, which translates to crown, that's supposed to be the roots of the tree. So in a way, this is an upside down tree in the way that we see it, or in the way that we experience it or perceive it, because the roots start from the one which is in the heavens, the skies, beyond veil world, I suppose. ⁓ And top the tree, which I don't know what's it called in English, but you know, with all the leaves, et cetera, ⁓ that would at the bottom. Is that what it's called? ⁓ We call chioma, like hair. ⁓ Lynn: You actually call it the crown. The crown of the tree. Yeah, yeah, it's called the crown, top. Luigi: you at of the tree, funnily enough, it would be at the bottom where the number 10 is, that is representing the physical manifestation of the tree, or that emanation evolutionary journey, I suppose. So yeah, have the number 1, at very top, and that's called Kether, which translates, funnily enough, to crown. And then you will see that on the... So if I look at the tree in front of me... Amelie: You Luigi: On the right side of the number one, of first sephiroth kether, we have ⁓ down the right, further down on the right, the second sephiroth, ⁓ and is called Chokhmah, or probably, forgive my pronunciation, it could be more like Chokhmah. My pronunciation in Hebrew is super strong, so apologies. ⁓ But ⁓ yeah, Chokhmah roughly wisdom, or roughly, translates into wisdom. And we can go into more details either later on or in another episode because obviously we will not be able to cover the tree in a single episode. We might not be able to cover the tree in 10 episodes. It may be a lifelong journey to even try and attempt to cover the tree if such a thing is possible. But yeah, let's limit ourselves for now by giving you, especially people that cannot see the image that I'm talking about that we're looking at, giving you the... the structure of the tree like Lynn said and the title of the sephiroth and the translation of them and so forth. So if Lynn: Also for anybody who's listening, can simply look up Tree of Life or Kabbalah Tree of Life on the internet and look at a picture. There's lots of them and it will be much easier for you to follow along as we go. Luigi: Yeah. Yeah, that part will not be hard to source. Lynn: ⁓ Amelie: You Luigi: So from Chokhmah, if we go to the left, which is also on the bottom left of the first sephiroth, Kester the Crown, we now have the third sephiroth, the third sphere, and that's called Binah, and that translates to understanding. we have this 1, 2 and 3, and those are referred to as supernodes, and they are probably difficult to... not difficult, but they are definitely the highest expression of the Divine Realm and therefore they are in a way unattainable for us to fully comprehend and or experience but that's the beauty of it so there you have it, the first, the second and the third now, underneath, if we go back on the right where Chokhmah is, underneath Chokhmah, so still on the right but below Chokhmah we now have the fourth Sephirah and that's called Chesed, that translates to Mercy, however, ⁓ myself and probably even Amelie and Lynn, personally am not super fond of the word Mercy, ⁓ it troubles me a little bit sometimes, for that we don't need to cover right now I suppose, but there are titles and or if not translations that you can refer to this individual, Sephirah, and sometimes Chesed referred to as Gedula. can also translate or be referred to at least love and I think that's the most beautiful way of translating it or referring to it, just the word love, which is quite universal ⁓ as word, as a term filled with meaning and truth and ⁓ beauty coming on by the way. ⁓ So yeah, have Chesed ⁓ underneath ⁓ second And now... Lynn: you Luigi: jumping back on the left, you can see right now we're doing a zigzag movement, so from the top of the tree, which is Kether we went ⁓ to the right and then crossed around the left and then we're crossing down ⁓ the right again and now we're crossing, we're going across to the left. There's lot of zigzag movements going on for now and that is the movement of emanation and manifestation. So on left now Lynn: And as you can also see, just following the movements from one sephiroth to the other, you're not actually necessarily going over the paths. Because you might have noticed that if you're seeing it in front of you, like going from one to two to two to three, you see you can follow the paths that are on there. But if you're jumping from three to four, there's not actually a direct path connecting them. So we are just zigzagging from sephiroth to sephiroth right now. Luigi: Exactly. Amelie: that serpent. Lynn: Serpent. Luigi: Yeah, the path. Well, I guess like in this case, without confusing anyone, but I guess in the case of the manifestation, that would be the path of the dove. And then if we were talking about the opposite direction, that would, yes, we'll be indeed talking about the path of the serpent. But yeah, after the fourth one, we find the fifth sephiroth, which is underneath the third, and that is called Geburah I believe... Obviously my Hebrew again is not amazing or perfect, but spelled like Geburah but because of the ⁓ Hebrew language it's pronounced Gevora, like with a V, Gevora. And ⁓ again, translates into severity, and that's again another term that I particularly do not enjoy, find it too harsh to be honest. So there are other and translations and references that you can use in this case. So in the case of Geburah ⁓ like in the... that we're looking at right now, the translation has been given to the word strength and sometimes I also in the past used the one for power and sometimes even courage. So the fifth one. ⁓ Now ⁓ zigzagging once but we're going towards the center rather than on the right or the left. ⁓ So the center which is further down, ⁓ so you look at the Kether top one and you go further further further down underneath but in the center, the fourth and the fifth, so underneath Chesed and Geburah ⁓ will have in the center now the sixth sephiroth, and ⁓ will be Tiphareth which to beauty. And this is, ⁓ every single is obviously incredibly valuable and important and astonishing, but for the of our ⁓ tradition and our and... journey that Lynn and Amelie and I have been on Tiphareth is quite important to say the least. You can call it the heart of the tree as it's at center. ⁓ Lynn: Thank And it's quite enjoyable. It's like an enjoyable place to sit in. Luigi: Yeah, yeah, even if you can gather some of it, you know, from the word itself, different meaning beauty, like it's definitely a place of not just comfort, but definitely a place of high bliss. highly a place of incredible bliss. Let's leave it. Let's say that, I suppose. And now zigzagging, well, zigzagging now continuing further down on the right, which is now underneath the fourth Sephirah. So underneath has it. ⁓ We now have the seventh one, and that is ⁓ the beautiful Netzach, one of my favorites, which again traditionally translates to victory, and you can use the word victory, ⁓ I believe a closer translation and a more favorable of mine, I suppose, ⁓ eternity. So would be the last Sephirah ⁓ on we call the right pillar, which I should have referenced before, so... Basically, these 10 spheres are divided in 3 different pillars, a right pillar, a left pillar and a central or middle pillar. As you can see, the Chokmah ⁓ second sephiroth, will be at the very top of the right pillar, otherwise known as the pillar of ⁓ or the pillar of force. ⁓ prefer to use the term force. Mercy ⁓ the of the pillar is given by the central sephiroth of the particular pillar. ⁓ So the right pillar, we've got so far to Netzach so in the right pillar we have number 2, Chokmah Wisdom, number 4, Chesed, Mercy or Love, and number 7, Netzach or Victory or Eternity. those three, ⁓ ⁓ create the right pillar, the pillar of force, but the middle one, being Chesed, being Mercy, that's what assigns its title to that pillar, the pillar of Mercy, because again, ⁓ central, I suppose, represents equilibrium and balance. So in a way the central sephiroth that's not even a verb isn't it, but provides equilibrium and balance to the whole pillar itself. And on other hand, although we haven't got to the ⁓ last ⁓ of pillar, but on the other hand you have the third, the fifth and the eighth. ⁓ So from we were in Netzach just a moment ago, we now cross ⁓ the tree and go into the left side ⁓ and we reach eighth sephiroth. Lynn: you Luigi: and that's called Hod which traditionally, usually it's used with glory, but you can also use the word splendor, ⁓ I also prefer. And that would be the last sephiroth of the pillar of ⁓ what call the pillar of severity, or the pillar of strength, or the pillar of form. And that be the left pillar. So as you can see, once again, you have ⁓ three sephiroth that pillar, which would be the third, the fifth, and the eighth, otherwise known as Binah, Geburah and Hod, and they will form the Pillar of Form. the fifth one, being the central one, the middle one, it equilibrium and balance to the pillar, and that's where it borrows its title from. And from the ⁓ it gets quite to talk about them because it's so beautiful. ⁓ But from the now we're going to go back into the middle pillar now, and we're going to find the ninth sephiroth, called Yesod Lynn: You Luigi: or translated to foundation. last but not least, underneath Yesod, so now we're going directly down below in the middle, again, we the tenth sephiroth called Malkuth otherwise translated to kingdom. And that would be again the crown of the tree versus the roots. yeah, I think a brief... At least let me know if you want me to elucidate on any kind of passage, but... That's at least a nice breakdown the tree, ⁓ its skeleton at the very least, ⁓ the translation of the titles of each sephiroth. Lynn: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, yeah. Amelie: think that's a great breakdown. It's easy to understand even though if you're not really familiar with it I think it's a great breakdown. Lynn: We just had a discussion before we started the episode about language and how about ⁓ things are just not properly translatable because there's just so much that goes with a word in one language that like emotions and the whole context ⁓ you can not necessarily transfer to another as easily. so like none us speak Hebrew. So we obviously don't ⁓ have whole connotation ⁓ of the word means in its entire context of the culture. ⁓ I all of us are multilinguists as well. So we we know struggles of trying to, you know, translate one language into another, you know, make yourself known in another language. And you usually feel with or, know. But what I find, and I'm a language nerd, if that's not very obvious So what I find really interesting is then to see different translations the different Sephiroth in different languages. They're not always back to this English translation. And so what we just covered is, I would say, probably like the most basic translation or the one that not basic, the like the baseline that would most people refer to or it's like the common ground. Yeah. The accepted. Yeah. Yeah. Popular or like most accepted version. there's also other ones that I've read that are quite interesting and probably a bit confusing if you're completely new to this because then suddenly like, you know, like, ⁓ mercy? Is it love? Is it something completely different? Because the one that I have, for example, the fourth would be Luigi: Yeah, the most popular out there, I would say. Lynn: densification. So it talks about, you know, pulling, pulling together of something, which is again, you know, a different, different vibe from what been talking about. While the five is ⁓ upheaval. So like, you know, more like the spreading of things, you know, like there's a lot of, ⁓ yeah, a lot of relations between different sefiroth that Luigi: Mmm. Hahaha. Lynn: We cannot even touch upon here, but I think we should some episodes about the individuals as well and see how they connect to each other. I find it, I personally find really interesting and that, I ⁓ I remember which source it is. It was a German, a German book about Kabbalah and Tarot. ⁓ And they also, use like they for for Tiphareth the sixth one they they just call it the center then what i find interesting also that seven and eight have a very different so like Netzach and Hod have a very different translation because then he goes into ⁓ disintegration in Netzach and into structure in Hod Luigi: makes so much sense. Lynn: It makes sense, right? Like if you know the system, it makes sense. If you don't know the system, I was like, I don't, you know, but like if you know it a little bit, it's like, huh, yeah, you know, and, and yes, so it is, is called reflection. Luigi: that's beautiful. Lynn: Yeah, right. So it's really lovely, I think, to kind of look into different languages as well and see how they it, really. So I mean, it's an interpretation. Also two and three, they ⁓ that one, it's a Chokmah, wisdom. And they say ⁓ energy Binah, we have here is understanding. Amelie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Lynn: and now they say form. So they put energy and form into it. And that also, you know, Amelie: This is why I find it so, like I said before, like you almost have to feel itch each Sephirah. almost have to kind of like, you can't just memorize it because it's also about what it actually does. And it's ⁓ amazing there are so many different people or so many different traditions that have translated this because everyone would find something easier. Like I find it very difficult to remember the Hebrew words because it doesn't... I don't connect with the words well as I would, ⁓ know, I can remember the planets and then you know more about the planets or, ⁓ know, obviously English words. ⁓ like ⁓ would connect so much more with that explanation because it ⁓ away takes you to, you know, like, ⁓ this is... what it is, know, it's a contraction, or it's ⁓ explosive. it's, in case, it's like easier to connect with what supposed to be, and you can go from there. ⁓ So I many times maybe people are afraid, maybe because you like you need to memorize ⁓ everything like correctly Lynn: Mm. Mm. Amelie: in certain languages and stuff, but I really don't feel it's the case. And if it makes it easier someone to go through, it's not easier, but a path of naming them with words, for example, which if that makes it easier for you to understand what it is, start from there. I don't see that there's no, ⁓ and... Lynn: Mm. Amelie: Once you know this, then you can dive into more. But like, don't make it difficult for yourself. ⁓ Lynn: Yeah. Yeah, or just cheat, you know. Yeah. Or you could just cheat if you like math best, you know, then just go like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10th sephiroth you know, and then you don't give it a name at all and just give it a number and people will still know what you're talking about, you know. Amelie: Yeah. Luigi: Yeah, and there are so many correspondences as well that you can use that we haven't even touched upon. It stands to reason that at least one type of correspondence will sit with someone and be like, okay, that's the one that I'm gonna use, whether it's colors or animals or planets or plants or gemstones, et cetera, et cetera. Amelie: Yeah, exactly. Lynn: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. yeah yeah i would actually yes Amelie: make your own tree with the words that you feel, you know, but then obviously remember, maybe remember the numbers just in case if you're talking to someone else, but you can literally make your own one how you want it to be, you know, how you feel they, you know, and then you just go from there. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Yeah, so I would really, because don't know anything about this and if you know, Luigi I'd really love for us to touch upon what animals are connected with the different Sephiroth. But ⁓ for who are actually also looking at it and since you already mentioned it now with the planets, ⁓ Amelie, we'd Luigi: ⁓ yeah, we can. Mm. Lynn: We just go really quickly through the planets for those who cannot and especially for those who cannot see it. If you know the astrological then you will already see planets correspond to the different ⁓ Sephiroth. But you just go quickly through that and then ⁓ maybe through animals after that. Amelie: was just thinking about like, what about ⁓ sephiroth that we cannot see? Luigi: yeah, Daath ⁓ Lynn: ⁓ yeah. Should we talk about that? Should we talk about? Yeah. Yeah, let's. there's a hidden one. Luigi: Yeah, we can mention it because I Daath definitely deserves a platform of itself, ⁓ but we can definitely mention it. Lynn: I mean, we can make an entire episode on it, so... Luigi: entire series. Amelie: Yeah, I just feel like worth mentioning if we're going to put the planets in there because ⁓ one that we're looking at now is different from the one that I would follow ⁓ I feel like it feels like it needs secret sephiroth in there. ⁓ Lynn: Yes, true. Yeah, right. Yeah. And yeah, and for like, those of you who are like actually looking at it, where would you place it if you're like talking about, mean, big hint on the screen right now, right? But but where would you place it? If you see the tree of life, a hidden sephiroth where should it go? Hmm. in the big in the big place where there's nothing. Right. So I another one here. I'll just put it up to the camera real quick and you probably won't be able to see it very well. Amelie: You Luigi: Hahaha Yeah, peace. ⁓ Lynn: but here you actually see it where it's to be, where they it. Yes, ⁓ put it up to the other ⁓ camera here as And there's also different translations on one, think, than on the one that I'm currently screen sharing. ⁓ Luigi: ⁓ what's the one that you use in your translation? Lynn: Well, I tend use the Hebrew words because the are always so different. So I'm a bit better on just going like, you're talking about Chesed okay, or Kether ⁓ And some of I remember Kether as a crown always. So I'm more into Hebrew words. And then if I have like a blackout and I don't remember the Hebrew words, I'm just going with the number. ⁓ Luigi: haha ⁓ Lynn: I see the tarot like a tarot card in my head. It's that one. It's one for the cups ⁓ you But ⁓ this it goes about it has crown wisdom understanding love will actually for Geburah It translated as will and then it has here actually Tiphareth is self-consciousness I go more for it with beauty, but this has self-consciousness Luigi: Mm-hmm. Ooh. Lynn: And then Netzach as feeling Hod as reason. So the, you the feeling thinking thing. And yes, sort as the unconscious where you have the moon, spoiler, ⁓ and ⁓ Malkuth the physical body. That's ⁓ that it. Luigi: Mmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. And you know that you had the upheaval, the destruction, what would you have for Daath your system? Lynn: ⁓ I think that one didn't have Daath or it don't ⁓ it covers it later ⁓ in the things that are noted down it only it noted one through ten and there's nothing on Daath but maybe they were referring it ⁓ later so I don't know. This one has Daath actually as knowledge. Luigi: ⁓ I see. Yeah, which is ⁓ a good term, well, a good... is roughly what it translates to, like dath, meaning knowledge. ⁓ dath is tricky to talk about, but when I say tricky, it's purely because, again, ⁓ creates so much debate lifelong followers of the tree, etc. ⁓ It's a subject of debate, purely because, ⁓ if go back to the ancient texts... where the tree comes from, I suppose. There is a strong emphasis on the tree possessing only 10 Sephirots, not 9, not 11, 10. And so there is constantly the debate about Daath and what Daath truly means or represents. But yeah, like you pointed out, it will be placed in between 1 and 6, so in between Kether the Crown and 6 being Tiphareth the Beauty, in a place, in a space on the tree's map. that we call and refer to as the Abyss. Yeah, so we can definitely go into it unless any of you two want to add more to it. But you know, the whole conversation about the Abyss and what is knowledge, why knowledge, why 11, easy or easy no, a Sephirah, and origins, et cetera, we can ⁓ all of that more in detail in the future, I guess. ⁓ Lynn: you Amelie: We can definitely dive into it at some point. I just feel like it has to be named at some point because we cannot forget about it. Lynn: Yeah, absolutely. Mm. Yes. No. Luigi: Yeah, it's good that you pointed it out because like Amelie said, another good way to refer to the Sephiroth for people that may not be as versatile keen on learning the Hebrew, etc. You also got the planetary correspondence. But then that differs the traditional versus modern, I suppose, because ⁓ in the traditional system... The first and the second Sephirah would not have a planetary influence or rulership, but it can if you use a different system. like you see in the image that we just shared on the screen here, the planet ruling or influencing the first Sephirah, Kether of the Crown, would be Pluto. And then the second Sephirah, Chokmah Wisdom, that would be in this... Diagram would be ⁓ Uranus influencing or ruling the Sephirah but in other versions that Amelie pointed out at the beginning of the episode it would be Neptune and Uranus There you go Lynn: Yes, and this as well would be Neptune. Amelie: Yeah, I'll normally go for with Neptune as well. Lynn: you Luigi: and Uranus would be in the hidden Sephirah, as we call it, Da'ath. But those three in particular, Da'ath, Kether Chokmah so the Crown, the Wisdom, the Knowledge, in terms of the planetary rulership, there's room for... there's space for adjustment and preference, I suppose, because it is a bit more fluid than the other... than the others, purely because the others have been around for an incredible amount of time and the system was structured the way that it was structured, I guess. brings us to the third sephiroth, so the third one, Binah the understanding that is influenced and /or ruled I say influenced and /or ruled because influence and rulership is two different things depends on how you approach the tradition or the system, ⁓ may apply to you more than the other. Lynn: Mm. Luigi: So I use them as a Catch-22, I suppose, ⁓ policy. yeah, you have Saturn in Binah, in the understanding, in the third, Sephirah. ⁓ in the fourth, in Chesed, Love, have Love or Mercy. We have Jupiter, beautiful Jupiter giving us all of its blessings. ⁓ And then Geburah apologies, in the fifth, Sephirah, ⁓ we have the Mars. ⁓ influencing and all ruling. And then in the sixth the beauty, we have the sun itself, the of all life. And then Netzach, probably one of my favorites, we have Venus, a bountiful ⁓ planet and archetype us pagans. And then on the Hod, the splendor, we have Mercury. then... ⁓ We have Yesod, the foundation, I like the word reflection from before. But we have the influence or the rulership of the moon, the beautiful moon. Again, here very pagan, very... Yesod and are definitely where I hang around the most for most of times that I work with a tree, ⁓ for clear reasons. then at the bottom with Malkuth we have Malkuth being the kingdom. Lynn: You Amelie: You Luigi: So here we have, it depends how you take it, because the system and the tradition offers different views, suppose, not necessarily views, but adaptations. you the element of Earth, or the planet Earth, I suppose, but also you ultimately have the division of the four elements as we know in our lived experience. So Malkuth offers a lot nuance, I suppose. Lynn: I think, I didn't hear whether we've mentioned it, but in other also the systems that don't use ⁓ the ⁓ new as we might call them, ⁓ that ⁓ Chokmah the signs ⁓ connected with The two, the zodiac, yeah. Luigi: ⁓ yes, you're right. Yes, so the wheel of the zodiac. Yeah, so the wheel of the zodiac would be in the traditional system, would be influencing or ruling Chokmah And Kether the Crown in the traditional system, I suppose, wouldn't have a rulership at all, a planetary rulership, an anthropological rulership, because again, the crown, Kether, it's the source of everything, so in a way, that's where everything came from. There's nothing before... Lynn: Yeah. Luigi: When say there's nothing before it, it's technically not correct. But for the sake of what we're talking about, I'm gonna say there's nothing before it. Amelie: Let's not go that far. That's a different episode. Luigi: Hahaha! Lynn: Not into nice discussion, yeah. Yeah. But it's like, you start talking about things and then you just naturally go on and then you go deeper into the rabbit hole. suddenly you're like, talk about... ⁓ what is the abyss? That's how goes. But yeah, please indulge me on the animals, but just that because I'm a big animal person. ⁓ Luigi: Yeah Hahaha! Amelie: It's just in our nature, isn't it? Luigi: Yeah, the thing about the animals specifically, I suppose, not just the animals, but since we're talking about the animals, will say I would highly doubt that they will be part of the C, the Cabbalah with the C or the Kabbalah with the K. ⁓ think it's purely, I'm happy to be wrong, but as far as I know, it's purely part of system that we use in hermetic Qabbalah, so the one with the Q. ⁓ So, like I said, there are plenty of correspondences and they are all these correspondences that help the practitioner or the magician the witch, whatever you want to assign to yourself, ⁓ it you to work with the tree through those symbolisms, ⁓ through ⁓ correspondences, this case, ⁓ the of the animal kingdom. And again, The correspondences may vary depending on what system you use, who you learn it from, who's original creator ⁓ those correspondences. ⁓ they just offer you an additional layer to everything that you're doing ⁓ in of how you work with a tree, experience the tree, and ultimately work with the tarot as well. And may also give you some pieces of enlightenment around ⁓ certain animals around certain tarot cards, as we experienced previously as well. ⁓ if memory serves me right, the animals to ⁓ Kether would be the hawk and the swan. Yeah, guess, you know, it's... We can discuss or at least workshop why, because not every single source will... Lynn: Yes. Luigi: detail like this is why we're choosing it but through meditation you can achieve your own conclusions ⁓ obviously you know the swan itself both swan and the hawk you think of them as Royal in a way isn't it like at least in the UK the swan you know is protected by the crown you can't kill them you will get to prison if you kill a swan but but so have the aspect of royalty when I say royalty purely because if you translate Kether you get the word crown so there is an aspect of importance in Kether, but that goes beyond the translation of the word crown. there is an aspect of liminal especially in the Celtic tradition, the swans be thought of or conceived as animals capable of traveling from this realm to the next realm. And there are several like legends and stories of ⁓ chariots of ever creatures being pulled by a group of swans, is beautiful. And the hawk, guess as well, like an aspect of royalty in that as well, but also the hawk as in the vision, isn't it? So very much speaks of the vision ⁓ there is an aspect of vision which will influence the entire system of the tree. ⁓ I ⁓ or at least I realized through the meditation that it's relevant to Kether because it's the vision of the light that do we ever... Lynn: Mm. Luigi: Will we ever be able to conceptualize or fully experience or fully embody, who knows? So there is that aspect of clarity and yet it's a clarity covered in mystery. ⁓ Lynn: There's so many deities also that are connected with like hawks or falcons. So I mean, have like obviously Horus you have Freya with her falcon thing, have, yeah, Artemis, Apollo, Apollo with a hawk as well. Yeah, there's a lot. These beautiful ⁓ birds prey. Luigi: yeah. Exactly. ⁓ there you have ⁓ least two of the traditional animals. And by the way, you can probably follow ⁓ not follow, but discover these correspondences if you explore ⁓ such as, you Alistair Crowley and the Unfortune, all the luminaries ⁓ of Tree of Life and the Tarot and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, etc. They all speak, they don't necessarily speak about this at length, but they definitely mention this at some point in tables of correspondences. And yeah, so Chokmah and Binah, I'll speak about them together I suppose, that's because the ⁓ animal or the animal kingdom correspondence is, funnily enough, men and women, us as animals. So you will have men for Chokmah ⁓ and for Binah. ⁓ And reasons we obviously go into, for anybody who's we can go into detail, ⁓ we can... Lynn: Yes. Mm-hmm. Luigi: touch the tip of the iceberg here, but obviously both Amelie and Lynn and myself, ⁓ are fairly aware of ⁓ we have the woman and the man. But those of us who are less familiar with the tradition and the system and the story of the tree, know, ⁓ ⁓ also known as the supernal father and Binah as the supernal mother. And that can be a hint for you as to why we have man and woman as representing the animal kingdom, because we are animals after all, we mammals, isn't it? Just different from... don't think that's an atrocious thing to say. ⁓ next one though, in Chesed that's one of my favourites, if not my favourite, it's the unicorn. Lynn: Yes, we are. Amelie: Yeah. ⁓ Lynn: No. Amelie: Cool. Luigi: Yeah, Lynn: You said like the love, love, love and yeah, mercy idea. Luigi: Yeah, well I guess also when we speak of royalty, suppose, by the way, I'm full disclaimer, full disclosure, I am not a at all, like I am a bit not pro-monarchy, but when you think of the concept of monarchy or royalty, we know that like in the UK for instance, ⁓ a clear symbolism of the monarchy is the lion and the unicorn. ⁓ obviously if we were to once we discuss ⁓ Lynn: Right, Luigi: in more detail in the future. There is a royal attribution to also Chesed and we can talk about it more in the future. But think that also possibly connects, if not justifies, the correspondence a unicorn in Chesed. There's also other which are connected to the Abyss, but we can touch upon those later, I suppose, because I don't want ⁓ to discombobulate too people too soon. In Geburah we have... What's a better word? You know like, confused would be a... confused would be a better word. ⁓ Lynn: You just did with that verb you chose. ⁓ discombobulate yes. Confuse. I love that though. Amelie: Hahaha I don't know if it's a better word, but I guess it's more understandable. Lynn: It's more understandable, it's a better word to tell somebody or to use a word for confusing people or being confused because it's very confusing. works. ⁓ Luigi: Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, a lot of them were discombobulated. think my nephew told it to me as well. ⁓ maybe it was a TV show. In we have the mighty Basilisk. Lynn: Yep. ⁓ Thank Luigi: So, know, like, Geburah gets a lot of bad rap for many reasons that, again, we can cover going forward, you know, ⁓ ⁓ Put an extra reason to why Geburah is so feared, and then you have the Basilisk with of its ⁓ death-inducing power, I suppose. But, Dulcis in we've got ⁓ in Tiphareth now. There's not just one, you notice in Kether we have the Lista Capo, in Tiphareth we have between 2 and 3, so you have the Phoenix, ⁓ with its power of resurrection obviously, but also have the Lion, and you also have the Eagle. Lynn: you works, yeah. ⁓ Luigi: So that's something, yeah, and that's another thing to ponder on, like the placement of the hawk in Kether versus the placement of the eagle in Tiphareth, and that's a whole conversation in itself, and I love that. Lynn: I have to say Yggdrasil and our tree of life in the Norse tradition, is ⁓ eagle and there is a hawk in there. Luigi: okay, okay. ⁓ gets juicier and juicier. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The hawk likes to sit on top, on top, on the hawk is on top of the eagle usually. And you also have a squirrel running up and down, you know, but so, but yeah, there's a hawk and an eagle in our version of the world tree as well. Very. Mm-hmm. Luigi: Ha ha ha ha Definitely something to explore then, cause I wasn't aware of that. ⁓ In Netzach so again here we go a few, so we definitely have the Leopard ⁓ and Lynx. But additional, ⁓ not always, but additional can be the Dove and the Sparrow. Lynn: is very different like energy if you have like cats and then you have the prey of the cats in the same sephiroth Luigi: Yeah. Yeah. And then in Hod you have, I believe you have the Jackal and the Twin Serpents. What's he called the Twin Serpents? So it's a serpent with two heads basically. As far as I'm aware. And then in Yesod you have the Tortoise, the Elephant and the Toad. You have the Toad as well. Lynn: specific. Luigi: in Malkuth ⁓ have last but not least the Sphinx. Lynn: That's so interesting. I would think like, because the tortoise, elephant and toad, they're all such earthy kind of, I feel like they're very earthy animals. Or between earth and water, guess, but they're very earthy. So I would have, you know, placed them in something that's not the moon and then ⁓ Sphinx. yeah, would probably put that like, yeah, that's interesting. It's probably not I would have. intuited those last Luigi: Yeah, I think it's a fair point that you raised because even the elephant, know, the turtles and the toad, ⁓ can think of them as earthly as well. But I think there's a bigger secret there. Hopefully not opening too much of a bigger rabbit hole here. You know, like as ⁓ the if you even at the tree itself, ⁓ you see the first access beyond the physical realm, beyond earth, beyond the physical experience is the moon, isn't it? Is Yesod Lynn: sure. Mm. Hmm. Hmm. Luigi: So that's the first portal into the realm of emanation, into the realm of magic, into the realm of mysteries, into the realm where everything does not have to make sense any longer. I think there's a bit ⁓ food for thought in having those ⁓ conceptualized animals in the Sephirah of the Moon. But also if you reflect on the top deck, you will then connect the dots, I suppose. on the presence of some of those animals on some of those cards, in particular the Princess of Cups and the Hierophant or as I refer to them, the Sage. Lynn: Mm-hmm. was a really good introduction to the Qabbalah. Was anything more you feel you wanted to add for just a introductory episode? Luigi: For me, I'm good. I definitely get very emotional in a good way. ⁓ get very moved whenever approaching the topic of the Tree of Life because I feel like it's so ⁓ Lynn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Luigi: and it's so beautiful. there's no light available where I am right now. The has set, so I'm just gonna be a floating head. But no, ⁓ like I said, I think... Lynn: You're just floating it, yes. ⁓ Luigi: You pointed out at the beginning, Lynn, nobody has to get into this. I think I encourage, I would encourage anyone to get into this. was even thinking about it on my way back from the gym today. I was thinking of people that I spoke to recently being like, I'm so bored, I got nothing to do. And all I wanted to tell them was just pick up the trio life. Just pick up the trio life that you something to do, man, for a very long time. So yeah, I appreciate that it can be incredibly overwhelming and incredibly complex. ⁓ Lynn: Yeah. Luigi: I think that's why I personally find it beautiful. It's in its complexity that I find ⁓ beauty because he offers the opportunity to sit, back, either sit or stand back and ponder, workshop, build and break down at the same time. ⁓ almost like therapy. ⁓ yeah, thank you all both for supporting me with this. ⁓ Lynn: Yeah. ⁓ Amelie: There's so many of these. Oh, thank you for your knowledge, really. This definitely. Lynn: here. Yeah, that was really enlightening. Also speaking of therapy, my cat has been sitting on my lap for the past few minutes and it's just like the the Netzach of... yeah, he's just like sitting there and like washing himself having a good time. Amelie: ⁓ Luigi: Bless them. Lynn: bless the cats. Amelie: ⁓ yeah, definitely. I've been overthinking this Qabbalah as well. And I discussion about this ages ago with someone, but it's probably maybe popular theory, but it's still a theory in my head somehow. Lynn: ⁓ Amelie: And I'm like, I just felt like Qabbalah is just something that is just really, really old. I'm like, who were the actual original people that were like into stars and the universe and stuff? I'm like, ⁓ like really, really, really, really, really ancient Egypt. I'm like, it be something like a connection there. And then it's been picked up and then, ⁓ you like you know when you when there's like people moving into places and they like pick it up and they kind of like ⁓ we have to preserve this and it's like i just feel like it's just way way older than like the Jewish Kabbalah i just feel like there's something before that it's probably something before that as well you know like this is my brain always goes to like some really like old Luigi: Yeah. Lynn: you Amelie: old, extremely like, ⁓ yes! And I just like, I just feel like that this whole, maybe it's, maybe because, maybe I'm just like biased because like it's always been ⁓ that with me, but I, ⁓ I'm thinking about Egypt is not the way it is now and it's not the way it's been portrayed in history, ⁓ like before it got destroyed, it was like when things were like Luigi: Destinations... Roots... Amelie: in my brain, necessarily peaceful, but when people ⁓ in touch with nature and ⁓ higher spirits and all of that. And to me, just like, I think I just feel like there's a connection with it. ⁓ a connection ⁓ me. And would love to explore that more, but it's obviously probably just me thinking about it. But it's like amazing. Lynn: No, don't. Yeah. I think it's like, I mean, also think about interconnectedness of things. I mean, just the that old ideas or ideas in general, they get circulated and recycled so much. And then if you're diving into this idea of like a shared consciousness, even or like a genetic code or whatnot, you know, there's ⁓ so much there to possibly like explore and that could be there like that maybe people from like 10,000 years ago or like even stone age people had some sort of concept of something like a whole system of how reality was built up or reality or the world or something and then maybe that became an idea and then like even just here like you know like with the Celtic tradition that the trees are very central right but then also in the Luigi: Mm-hmm. Lynn: in a Germanic tradition. I mean, we are so close, you know, it's so close, like geographically. So it's not really that strange. But also, like in the Norse tradition, there's a tree the center of everything, the Tree of Life that holds all the worlds. And we have nine of them in the Norse mythology. ⁓ the worlds are like in the branches of this big tree. And we have like the Kabbalah Tree of Life, which is very abstract. Amelie: Yeah. Lynn: know, tree it's still, know, kind of, you know, ⁓ so ⁓ still Yeah, and ⁓ I I bet, mean, if there's any people like watching, listening, who know of other like traditions ⁓ where trees a central role, it's just like drop us a comment or something that things to, ⁓ that would interesting to explore because I think that's, ⁓ it's probably a lot more... Luigi: It's got the tree essence in it. Amelie: It's a tree. Lynn: in a lot more traditions than the ones we touched upon today. And again, you know, if it's a genetic code or some shared consciousness or something, you know, or recycled ideas, it's just, you know, it's, yeah. So I'm a bit. Amelie: Yeah, I think the tree in general, think, I don't know, maybe it's just thinking logically in a sense, but a tree can get extremely old. if you're looking at the tree as because it's alive, because it has roots, it feeds itself, it has like, you know, Lynn: Mmm. Amelie: leaves and it has this cycle of life but it just lives and it lives for so long it sees everything yeah sees everything around itself and I like I mean I like I said before I'm into a lot of conspiracy theories and stuff but there's a lot of I mean I don't know if it's true or not but I just like I just find fascinating just there's like a lot of Lynn: Yeah, much longer than this. Yeah. Thank Luigi: Hahaha Amelie: or a lot of like little mountains that look like really old tree trunks and they're like huge and I mean like huge because what happens to like old tree it gets like it's really really old it becomes you know like stone and stuff so I'm just in my mind I'm like it makes a lot of sense that it is a tree because a tree grows tall so it's like closer to I guess the divine closer to you know the heaven the fact that it's so it sees ⁓ so years, so many decades. It makes sense. It doesn't make sense enough for anything else. Lynn: Yeah. And I think just, yeah, yeah. And I mean, also just as a symbol of something that, tangent, but, know, as a symbol of something that anybody, like any animist or natural, you know, if you look at a tree, it connects ⁓ earth to the heaven. If you just look at it, you know, it's that pillar that connects the both. So it's very close to heart or close to like a spiritual. Luigi: Mm-hmm. Amelie: Yeah. Lynn: wisdom or understanding that there's something very special about them. ⁓ Luigi: Yeah, and in a way, very own statement, it's kind of like not the only purpose, but a main purpose of the Tree of Life and least the Kabbalistic system, you know, it's how we incorporate physical experience and physical existence, but with the ethereal and spiritual and invisible, for lack of better words, invisible presence. ⁓ Amelie: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Lynn: think that would be really good to pick again in a next maybe or in a future episode because we haven't really covered on how to actually use it or what to do with it. ⁓ So yeah, I think we could pick that up again. ⁓ Yeah, we about so many things. There's so much talk about really here. I think that, yeah, would be really exciting to ⁓ look at in a episode. But yeah. Luigi: Yeah. We covered a lot, we just didn't cover that. ⁓ Lynn: Thank you so much for everything. Yeah, that's really good. I guess we're ready for the card reveal. Do you want to guess out of the 74 cards? Luigi: So please, yeah, stick with us. Should we reveal the card? Oh no, I wonder if it's a... because we talked about the tree I wanna hope that it's a minor but who knows Amelie what do you think? Lynn: guesses. Amelie: I know it would be really cool if it was the fool to be honest but Lynn: No, it's neither. It's in between, but it's also really unfair, like What do you think? guess the tarot card I picked. No, it is ...discuss! It is the hermit. Oh, Amelie: Ha ha ha! Luigi: ⁓ okay, okay. I Amelie: love it. Luigi: take it. ⁓ Lynn: yeah, we're taking it. We're not. Amelie: But that is, that very on point, Lynn: Yes, like when I pulled it I was like, ⁓ yeah I feel Kabbalah, hello. ⁓ Amelie: as say. Luigi: Ha Amelie: This is something you definitely can do, sit in a cave and just read and read and study and study. Get enlightened and maybe like explain to others what it is about. Lynn: Mmm, yeah. But I feel... Yeah! go ahead, Louisey. Luigi: It is. I was just gonna say, no I was just gonna say it is very likely that if you, depending on how passionate you become about the Tree of Life and Tarot and Qabbalah you're very likely to end up living the life of the Hermit Lynn: The hermit, yes, yes. But I was just like, when I pulled it, I looked at it, I was just like thinking, yeah, this is Luigi today, you know, it's just like going forth, like with his little light shining, like a light on what the Kabbalah is for all of us. With his old wisdom. ⁓ Amelie: Yes. Yes. Luigi: Ha ha ha! ⁓ and yet here I am surrounded in darkness. Lynn: Yeah, but you have like a single source of light, is your screen, you know, so that just, you know, that's the light. Luigi: Yeah, no, that's beautiful. And I guess like the hermit is connected on more than one ways, on more ways than one to the tree itself and perhaps even to the creation of the tree. But that again would be another rabbit hole and another juicy topic to talk about in the future. Lynn: Yeah, but also like we talked just set with the trees how trees connect the earth to the sky and then you have like these images of like the hermit being like very much connected with the underworld the I mean, you know Virgo he's like very earthy and all that you have like characters in there. So like, you know but then this idea of I don't know where I got this idea from right now, but this image of like the hermit moving up a mountain. Where did I get this image from? I'm sure maybe like the Led Zeppelin, know, like the Hermit was also kind of on top of a mountain with his But like this idea, you know, that a as well as like the underground. So you also have like this kind of a kind pillar. Like they said, my head, there's like this kind of pillar there. Luigi: Haha Sending a Amelie: Am I being silly or isn't he on top of the mountain in the RWS? I'm trying to like find it. Luigi: Yeah, yeah, on the smith deck he's on top of the mountain. Lynn: Yeah, isn't, yeah he is. Amelie: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. that makes like just a lot of sense. trying to find it. ⁓ yeah, here we go. Yeah, because it's like, yeah, he's on top of the mountain there. So unless it's... ⁓ Lynn: Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. tough people here. Luigi: Yeah, no, and I think... Lynn: Mmm. Luigi: Yeah, and I think as well, very relevant to our conversation today, the moment that we started talking about the... What's the word I'm looking for? I guess the questionable correspondence of the tortoise, the toad and the elephant to the sphere or sephiroth of the moon. I think that's also a bit hermit, because like you pointed out, there is the Virgo correspondence, again, very earthy. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Luigi: and yet the number nine, the number of the moon. So in the conversation that we had amongst all the things that we talked about, I think the hermit showed up right here, right then. Lynn: Mmm. Mmm. Wow, yeah. Yeah, that's true. That's heavy foreshadowing. right. Interesting. Amelie: feel so far the hidden, the secret cards so far and all the episodes have been very spot on. Lynn: Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's like... Yeah. Luigi: ⁓ yeah. But they will be, wouldn't they? they're bound to be. Amelie: true this is this is our way to say that tarot works. It works in mysterious ways but it works. Lynn: works, it's something. ⁓ Luigi: Yeah. the cards know what they talk about. Lynn: They do. They do. Amelie: they do. And if you doubt, they will also know. find out sooner or later that they're right. ⁓ Lynn: True. ⁓ wow. Well, yeah, I think that concludes tonight's episode. Thank you so much for ⁓ joining and for watching or listening. We will drop ⁓ down below references to books that we made ⁓ during the Stay tuned. See you again in the next rabbit hole. Bye. Luigi: Bye! Amelie: Unscramble your mind. Lynn: No. Luigi: get ready for it.