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Two Sons: Genuine Faith vs. Empty Promises · Main Thing Podcast

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Amen reminder for us to recall in today's divisive and dark culture, From foundational truths and scripture to the hot topics of today's culture.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Allow this podcast to inspire and motivate you on your faith journey.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Well, we're so glad you're back with us for the Main Thing podcast with Pastor Steve.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Pastor Steve, thanks for being here, absolutely.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: As always you kind of have to be here because your name's on it.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: So glad you're here.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: But we're going to do a parable today.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: That's really kind of one of those obscure parables.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Most people probably have read it and maybe just went right over it.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Or you might read this parable and they'd be like that's not in the Bible, but it is so before we get to the scripture in the Bible, but it is so before we get to the Scripture.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: I got a question for you.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Let's start here.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: What matters more, our words or our actions?
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: Oh, our actions absolutely.
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: Words only have value when they're backed up with action.
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: Otherwise they're meaningless.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Okay, so I want to go off on a little bit of a tangent here, before we read the scripture.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: I was thinking this morning as I was preparing for this between me, you and Chet, we have 15 kids, and I believe and correct me if I'm wrong, but you have five grandchildren, right?
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: That's correct.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: So thinking back to raising your boys and I'm thinking back to raising my kids, what is one of the hardest things about raising kids, in your opinion?
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: Probably the hardest thing, and I think it's a dual thing living your life before them, because they observe, they see who you are, how you handle things, how you respond.
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: So, living your life before them in a way that would be honoring to Christ, and then navigating the values that you're trying to instill in them, while fighting the values culture is trying to instill in them, but you couldn't have answered that any better.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: We didn't talk about this question beforehand.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: But to segue into that, when we're trying to instill values and we want them to live a certain way, I'd add to that that what we're trying to do is do a heart change.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, you know, and one of the things I've found as we do this parenting journey is you know, we can sometimes make our kids do the right thing or say the right thing because they fear a punishment or whatever, but we can't make a heart change.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: And I think, really, what we're talking about today is this parent who desires a heart change of his kids.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, you know.
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: So let me read our parable.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: This is Matthew 21, 28 through 32.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: It would just be called the two sons.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: Here's what it says.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Jesus tells the people listening probably some Pharisees there and he says what do you think?
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: A man had two sons.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: He went to the first and said so who's Jesus talking to here?
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: to start off with this parable, Well, he's talking to the chief priests and scribes, if you back up in that chapter, so he's talking to the chief priests and scribes, if you back up in that chapter, so he's talking to the religious leaders of the day, and, if I understand it correctly, the conversation's about obedience, doing what the Father responding to him in obedience, what he's asked you to do.
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: He's never complimentary of the religious leadership in the New Testament.
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: They seem to always be missing the mark, and so, as best I can understand this parable, it's about obedience and the first son you would think is obedient, but he's actually not Delayed, obedience is disobedience.
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: And then the second son is just blatantly disobedient.
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: So both of them are disobedient, and then he drives home the point of you know, when you're confronted with the opportunity to know Christ with the gospel, you respond.
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: Neither one of these two sons responded correctly to the father's request, and so they're both disobedient.
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: In that sense, they both missed the mark.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: So would you say, this is in fact a gospel parable.
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: I believe it is.
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, it's a little more vague than a lot of the parables, but yeah, I think it's very clearly about the gospel.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: You know, as I read it and we talk about the gospel, I think one of the things that's been good over the years is the experience.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Probably you had the experience I had growing up in church.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: It seemed to me that what I was taught growing up is that your salvation consisted of your words.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: In other words, you pray the right prayer and you're saved.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: And this one turns that on its head right.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: It absolutely does, because the word's been nothing here.
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: You know I get frustrated when our Calvinist brothers say things like there's no such thing as a sinner's prayer.
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: Well, but if you go to Romans, we're told to accept Christ into our heart and our mind.
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: And so how do you do that?
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: I have never taught a person that you just pray this prayer and magically you're saved.
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: I think that what we call the sinner's prayer is just a tool, okay, and then I always explain now, in doing this, you're committing your life to Christ, You're believing these things, You're buying in.
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: He now is your master, your boss.
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: Man, I've never once in my life, I believe, tried to teach anybody easy believism.
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: Okay, but we have been guilty of that in churches as a whole, of telling people just come down the aisle, pray this prayer, you're in, you've punched your ticket, don't worry about a thing.
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: And I think we probably have misled not us individually here, I don't believe we've done that, but a lot of evangelical churches, I believe, have misled a lot of people.
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: And they prayed the prayer and they don't understand.
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: There's a commitment and a change, a miracle that has to take place.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: So if we look at these two brothers or these two sons, the second one said he's going to go.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: Two brothers or these two sons, the second one said he's going to go and he never did.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, so there's no repentance, there's no obedience there.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: What does that look like today?
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: I guess when you were just talking about the gospel, we pray to prayer is that kind of the same thing, you think?
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: Well, I think with the second son, he's just clear I'm not interested, I don't want it.
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: And so I think the way it corresponds to us today is there are a lot of times you share the gospel with your child or a family member and they just reject it.
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: He rejected the father is what he did in this parable.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: And so the first son.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Would this represent, though, somebody who did come to Christ?
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: Was there repentance there by his actions?
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: You know, it's hard to know for sure, but it appears to me that he went begrudgingly.
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: Okay, I can't state that for a fact, that's just my opinion, but it appears he went begrudgingly.
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: He didn't want to go, he told him he'd go, and out of obligation he went begrudgingly.
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: He didn't want to go, he told him he'd go, and out of obligation he went.
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: And I think, especially in the South, we have a lot of people that attend church because it's what you do in the South, it's cultural.
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: Good people go to church and I think he might line up with that crowd pretty well.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: Well, if I go back to the parenting thing for a second, it makes me think about.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: You know, with my kids, there's such a difference between telling them to do something and then eventually going off and doing it, and then doing what needs to be done long before you ever say a word.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: You know, that's when parenting becomes, uh, really enjoyable, I guess.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, you know, yes, um, and so we're looking at both these sons, and whether it was I'm not going to do it or I'm going to tell you I'll do it, I'm not, or I'm going to do it, but I don't want to, but would they both miss the mark there?
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: they both miss the mark.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, would you say.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: That would maybe as hypocrisy some of the hypocrisy we see in the church today Could be.
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: I believe the Christian life is lived properly when it's lived in a joyful, willing response.
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: We're not hedging, and I think you see the first son hedging and the second son flatly rejecting.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so what does true repentance look like, then, for somebody who not going grudgingly, not being obedient even though they don't really want to, or just outright rejecting?
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: What does true repentance look like when you have we're presented with the gospel?
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: I think 2 Corinthians 5.17 is a definition of true repentance.
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: The old things have passed away.
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: Behold, all things have become new.
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: It is a transformation of one's mind and heart.
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: Your intentions change your appetite changes your language changes your hopes and dreams, change your purpose for living changes.
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: When we say the old things have passed away, it's indicative of my old life.
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: Everything I was has been replaced by the transformation of Christ in my life, and so what you see in this parable is two individuals that have not been transformed.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, I always think it's helpful when you're reading Scripture to try to put yourself back in that time, in that culture, and picture what it would have been like.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: So I picture Jesus talking to this group of Pharisees, group of scribes, group of religious professionals, and maybe over on the side, or probably because they don't feel comfortable being near Jesus.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: You got all the people in the gutters of life the prostitutes, the tax collectors, the ones that are hated and I just picture Jesus looking at the Pharisees and saying, yeah, you guys don't have a chance.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Y'all are nothing like these ones over here who were obedient.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: And if we could move that over to today's culture, I mean, what does that look like?
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Who are the ones do you think?
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: Jesus would be saying you didn't accept.
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: Sure, we have to remember what the New Testament, jesus in particular, is teaching us is religion is a crutch, and this is what we have to remember.
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: All religion is man-made in an effort to worship God, and the Jews, in their man-made religion in an effort to worship God, got it totally wrong, and they were putting ball and chain around people's ankles.
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: There was no joy, there was no freedom, there was no expectation of good life in worshiping God.
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: It was all restrictions and rules and everything you couldn't do and what you had to do to please God.
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: And Jesus comes along and he says you'll know the truth and the truth will set you free Free from what Religion, and we're just as guilty.
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: Today we want to hold up our religion as our banner, and our banner is not our religion, it's Jesus, and so I think we're still making the same mistakes.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: You know, the Pharisees had all their rules in regard to the Ten Commandments and all that and they said you had to follow.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: What are some rules we do today?
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Do you think you know what I mean?
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: I know we have our unwritten rules in church that if you do this, it means you really love Jesus.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: If you do this, you're a good Christian.
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: Well, it's what I said in the last podcast.
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: It's the old adage I grew up with you don't drink, cuss, chew or run with girls that do.
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: We've got all these little things that, in our mind, make you a good Christian or not, and they have nothing to do with our relationship with Christ.
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: You know, our relationship with Christ provides freedom to live life in joy.
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: It's not constricting, it's expansive, and every church I know, this one included.
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: You've got all these people who have in their image, an image in their mind.
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: This is what a Christian is and unfortunately, most of the time they're totally off the mark.
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: You know, a good Christian does these things, whatever they may have in their head, and if you do this, you can't be a good Christian.
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: I'll give you an example.
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: I served on a college board some years back and we had this one board member who wanted to get the president run off.
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: So he comes to a board meeting and the president of the college and the head of the English department the president was a man, head of the English department was a woman and they had been at a conference together and this board member came in and said and we need to address this trip because she wore fishnet stockings on this trip, mm-hmm, and I was blown away.
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: I'm sitting here thinking what does that mean?
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: He was obviously implying that she dressed inappropriately, some kind of sexual innuendo or whatever, but in his mind he was very genuine.
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: In his mind, a Christian woman that would wear fishnet stockings was not a good Christian.
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: See, that's the kind of stuff that we come up with in our heads.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: You know, the big topic nowadays is yoga pants.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah well.
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: I'd be the first to say somebody need to tell someone you know.
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: But, yeah, I'll leave that there.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: You're going to get us in trouble on the podcast.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: We're going to have some emails here.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, jesus even made up a word for the Pharisees.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Before Jesus, nobody used the word hypocrite, right, okay, called the Pharisees hypocrite, being something they weren't.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Do we have that issue in the church today?
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: We do in its truest sense of the word.
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: Hypocrite was a word that was used in the theater.
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: You know, in ancient theaters, when they changed characters, they would put a mask over their face to become a different person.
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: And that's where that word comes from, and it's the idea that you're wearing a mask.
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: You're not who you really are, you're someone else.
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: And look in its simplest form, all of us are hypocrites to some degree.
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: There are times that, maybe intentionally or not intentionally, we're not who we really are in a moment, in a place in time, and so you know we need to take that to heart.
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: I think Christ died for us to be who we are in him, to be genuine in him, not to be hypocrites in any way.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: So I think that brings up another question why do we value image over obedience?
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: I don't really understand it.
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: I think it's human nature.
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: We want to see the best in people.
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: We want to see people doing what we think is appropriate and right, and the problem with that is when it comes to image.
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: We all have our own set of rules and guidelines as to what the proper image is.
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: You know, james was very clear faith without works is dead, and so image is useless unless it's backed up by an actual doing of what that image is.
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: You know, one of my favorite books and I forget the title one of Jimmy Carter's CIA agents that was assigned to him wrote a book, as they always do, after Carter was out of office, and he tells the story of how Carter always carried his own suitcase.
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: He wanted people to see him carrying his own suitcase, but what people didn't know is it was always empty.
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: He never carried his own suitcase, he just carried one to give the image to people that he was a regular guy.
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: In essence, he was not.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: You know it's funny Every morning Kelly and I get up and we make coffee and we have some time before the kids wake up to talk and all that.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: But I remember a couple of years ago when we started doing that Kelly would never drink her coffee and so it ended up just getting poured down the sink.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: And I remember one time I asked her about it she says I think I like the idea of coffee better than I actually like coffee.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: And I think that's what we do as Christians.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: A lot of us like the idea of being a Christian way more than we like actually being a Christian.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: And we see that everywhere in society.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: We see the kids playing baseball.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Who've got the.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: They look like major leaguers decked out and they probably can't catch a ground ball.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: I know me and you see this on the golf course when we see some guy look like he's coming off the PGA Tour who can't hit the ball 20 yards.
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: Why you got to bring me up.
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: No, I believe neither of us look like we're on the PGA Tour.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: But we do.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: We like image over obedience and I think both these sons were trying to present an image over their obedience?
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, you know.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: And so what are some subtle ways we do that, like we say we'll do something but we never do?
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: What are some ways we do that you think in the church?
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: Oh goodness, there are many ways Um sharing our faith, tithing, um, you know, actually interacting with other believers, building the family Uh, there's a plethora of things that that we're in love with, the idea of that, that we seem to never get around to doing as we should.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Willing to do the work, huh.
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: So, going back to this parable being warned about the gospel, if we got right down to it, how does this parable explain the gospel?
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: Well, the gospel is immediate, and I think it's immediate because none of us knows how much time is on our life clock, and so when you have the opportunity to respond to the Father, you need to do it, then in that moment.
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: Doing it later may be too late, and not doing it all is be too late, and not doing it all is certainly too late, and so I think, if I'm understanding this parable right, it's about being obedient to the Father right now not later.
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: I've heard a lot of deathbed confessions in my life and I always think I just can't help myself but think, yeah, you got lucky.
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: You know the good Lord let you die slow.
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: And you realized I think that's the second son, you know.
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: You realized.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: But you're not guaranteed.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: That's the danger.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, if I could to end today, if I can bring it back to the parenting thing, you know we want our kids to have a different heart and ultimately, either those sons, their heart changed.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: Right, you know, and right, we come to christ when our heart turns from ourselves to Almighty God and we have a heart change and that's how we know that Christ has come into our life and redeemed us.
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: Absolutely.
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: One of my boys told me one time when he was a teenager.
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: He came to me and he said Dad, I'm tired of being a preacher's kid.
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: And my response to him was well, let's talk about this Because the standards of our home.
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: I've never raised my kids to be preacher's kids.
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: I've never once said to them because I'm the pastor, you have to go to church.
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: Because I'm the pastor, you can't do this or that.
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: Never once.
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: I've been very conscious of that, because a pastor's kids deserve to be raised as the children of their parents in their home, not under the microscope of a bunch of church members.
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: And I said so.
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: Let's understand this the standards we have for our home.
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: If I were a doctor or a ditch digger or a plumber or whatever, our standards would be the same because they're Christian standards.
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: They have nothing to do with being a pastor.
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: So if I resign today and you're no longer a pastor's son, nothing in our home changes for you.
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: And so I think the desire for your children is for them to understand they have to own their own relationship with the Lord.
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: Just like they can't get into heaven because their daddy's a pastor, their relationship has to be individual with him, it can't be on their parents' coattails, and so if you can find a way to help them understand that God has no grandchildren, just children, then you've done a good thing with your kids, a positive thing.
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: But I would also say that's one of the hardest things to get them to understand.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: Also, yeah, absolutely yeah, all right.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that's going to wrap up today.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: Talk about the two sons.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: Next time we do a podcast, we're going to do something a little different.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: We're going to take a break from deep talks about Scripture and we thought it'd be fun to talk about some of the stories, some of the things that have happened over the years with being First Baptist and being coming to church and just how did we get to where we are today.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: So I hope you guys will join us next time.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Thanks again for listening.