Latest / Family Tree Food Stories / What Ketchup Teaches Us About Patience, Power, and Taste

Transcript

What Ketchup Teaches Us About Patience, Power, and Taste · Family Tree Food Stories

0:00
Nancy May: Good day, Sylvia.
0:02
Lovely.
0:02
How are you today?
0:03
I hope it's a lovely day.
0:05
Sylvia Lovely: Oh, it's, always a lovely day if you make it that way, right?
0:08
Nancy May: That's right.
0:08
it's even more lovely when your last name is Lovely.
0:11
Sylvia Lovely: There you go.
0:12
Mm-hmm.
0:13
Nancy May: before we start, we're gonna dive into.
0:15
how to subscribe to the podcast and we have a lot of listeners, but I'm not
0:20
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0:21
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0:26
tree food stories.com.
0:29
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0:34
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0:42
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0:47
As I said, in addition, you'll hear later on that we have a book, you probably
0:51
do already know that we've got a book called My Family Tree Food and Stories.
0:54
At the top of the page, there's a little click.
0:56
You can click on book and you can get some information about the book there too.
1:00
But.
1:00
Today's episode is all about ketchup, Who would think that ketchup was
1:05
a serious question or even an interesting question, but it really
1:08
is a fascinating subject I think.
1:10
Sylvia Lovely: Sure is.
1:10
And let's leave out its cousin Mustard for a change.
1:14
Usually have to share the stage.
1:16
Nancy May: No ketchup.
1:17
gets to be red all over the place.
1:19
after all, we are the color of February red, like heart
1:22
red.
1:23
Sylvia Lovely: Heart red.
1:24
ketchup is really a test of patience.
1:26
It's a trust exercise.
1:28
It's sure got a mind of its own.
1:30
always gives us a burp when it finally comes outta the bottle saying,
1:33
Hey baby, you don't control me.
1:36
And that's, that's when, that's, that's when I get explosive.
1:39
Okay.
1:40
With ketchup, we have a, we have a strained relationship.
1:44
Nancy May: or the ketchup gets explosive on you right Out of the long neck bottles.
1:47
Of course we have the different kind of bottles today, but even still the
1:50
old fashioned long neck bottle, it makes you work so hard to get it out.
1:56
Which again, like you said, is one of the tests of patience.
1:59
So I guess food really teaches a lessons of.
2:02
in this case, is teaching us the lesson of patience and anticipation
2:06
being a good thing, which I dunno, sometimes patience isn't so good for me.
2:12
Sylvia Lovely: I know.
2:14
you know the way I see it that when I feel in a mood slow down, I
2:18
apologize to ketchup out loud, but then I also can share a few choice
2:24
words that I won't share unless you think this should get an our rating.
2:28
Nancy May: I've kicked the butt of a, ketchup bottle a couple of times myself,
2:32
but I think it's a brilliant marketing strategy that they had, because you really
2:36
do look for the ketchup to come out and just not come out as a blob, but it's,
2:40
Sylvia Lovely: Yeah.
2:42
Nancy May: the desire, I think.
2:43
Sylvia Lovely: you're gonna get it that way.
2:45
you know, either it's slow or, Have you ever had it where it
2:48
just dumps all of it out at once?
2:50
Nancy May: Oh, of course, right?
2:51
Yeah.
2:51
There's more ketchup than there's hamburger.
2:53
Sylvia Lovely: Yeah, you gotta like it, which I do actually.
2:56
I do like it.
2:57
I haven't noticed by the way that it comes now in low sodium and low sugar.
3:02
So
3:02
Nancy May: Did you see that it came in green?
3:04
At one point, I think it was Heinz decided that they were
3:07
gonna change the color of ketchup.
3:09
There's a whole psychology, of food and the color of food, or whether we
3:13
want it or not, and I know fried green tomatoes is a big thing in the south.
3:18
Sylvia Lovely: Mm-hmm.
3:19
Nancy May: I can't wrap my head around a green tomato and eating it.
3:23
It's just not my tomato jam.
3:26
Sylvia Lovely: you are missing something, let me tell you.
3:28
That is so good.
3:30
But fried red tomatoes are just as good too.
3:32
But I gotta tell you, green ketchup just won't cut it with me.
3:37
Nancy May: No.
3:38
Sylvia Lovely: Uhuh.
3:38
No, no way.
3:40
Nancy May: let's go back to a little bit of the history of, ketchup because
3:42
I think this is really fascinating.
3:44
did you know that it didn't start as a bunch of mashed up tomatoes
3:49
and it didn't even start in the United States or in America?
3:52
And it definitely didn't start by putting it on hot dogs and hamburgers.
3:57
Sylvia Lovely: you have robbed me of my will to live.
3:59
Go on.
4:01
Nancy May: Oh, please.
4:02
No, no.
4:02
We need you.
4:04
let me tell you a little bit about ketchup because we all have a ketchup
4:08
story somewhere along the line, but ketchup began its life as a fermented fish
4:12
sauce in 300 bc. Can you imagine that?
4:16
I mean, wow.
4:17
It goes, I guess it's bc I dunno, 300 BC was, it was well
4:21
past cave man stage, but even
4:23
Sylvia Lovely: this was a long time ago.
4:25
Nancy May: It was a long time ago before my day and age.
4:27
Anyway, it started in southeastern China as a salty, funky kind of fish sauce made
4:34
with meat byproducts, fish and soybeans.
4:38
And the whole idea was it to give it a longer shelf life, As we call it today,
4:43
but it was also used to pour all over bad tasting foods when they're out on voyages
4:49
and traveling everywhere in long faring sea voyage, all the, I mean, you think
4:54
about it, you're out on a ship with a bunch of your other friends and you got
4:59
to eat all the stored meat that's been there for, let's say two or three months.
5:03
It's gotta taste Pretty nasty and rancid, and they didn't have
5:06
refrigeration in 300 bc, but
5:08
ketchup was stuff that they just put all over everything to make it taste good.
5:13
Sylvia Lovely: yeah.
5:14
Yeah.
5:14
it's a kind of a, an original travel food you know,
5:18
Nancy May: Yeah, pre those little, packets that you get at
5:20
McDonald's and everywhere else.
5:22
Yeah, I guess you could say it was the original Road Trip Companion
5:26
Sylvia Lovely: lemme ask a question.
5:27
Yep.
5:28
Do you save the little packets even though you have plenty of ketchup in the kitchen?
5:32
Nancy May: No, I don't do it with ketchup, but I do it with
5:34
the mayonnaise for some reason.
5:35
I don't know
5:36
Sylvia Lovely: Isn't that weird?
5:37
Yeah.
5:37
Isn't that weird?
5:38
Nancy May: it's a, it's a food story.
5:40
Sylvia Lovely: it may go back to our deprivation ancestors or something,
5:44
Nancy May: it must be something to do with a hoarding mechanism.
5:46
And the other thing is, I, I catch all those little, some of it's not the sweet
5:50
and low, but the yellow sugar packages.
5:52
Sylvia Lovely: Mm-hmm.
5:53
Mm-hmm.
5:53
Mm-hmm.
5:54
Oh, yeah.
5:55
I got it.
5:56
Nancy May: Ketchup is kind of an endurance food runner
5:58
I call it gastronomic marathoner because it's lasted so long, and
6:03
that's kind of a perfect picture.
6:05
But let me tell you just a little bit more about.
6:07
Ketchup because it actually has a very long, long history.
6:11
Obviously it started in 300 bc, but during the 17th century, European
6:15
traders found the sauce in Southeast Asia and brought it back home with them.
6:20
And then the British Cooks created their own version using other such ingredients
6:24
as anchovies and mushrooms and walnuts.
6:26
And it wasn't this.
6:28
Thick kind of sauce.
6:29
It was a little kind of runny, which was interesting.
6:31
Then in 1726, John Knott's cookbook, the court cookery.
6:38
Can you imagine the whole court had their own cookbook, and
6:41
Elizabeth, Eli, sorry, Eliza Smith's cookbook, the Complete Housewife.
6:46
I am sorry.
6:47
I really hate that name,
6:49
but Eliza obviously wasn't a woman's libber So anyway, both the court cookery
6:54
and her complete housewife cookbook included recipes for ketchup, which were a
6:59
mixture of vinegar, regular vinegar, white vinegar, anchovies, shallots, lemon peel,
7:04
and horse radish on top of everything else with a bunch of other spices.
7:08
Sylvia Lovely: but, but no tomatoes, huh?
7:10
Nancy May: No tomatoes.
7:11
No.
7:11
Wait
7:11
Sylvia Lovely: Oh, okay.
7:13
Alright.
7:13
Hold on.
7:13
Hold on.
7:15
Nancy May: because, remember tomatoes were thought to be poisonous.
7:17
So, they didn't use tomatoes.
7:20
But around 1830, a physician in Ohio by the name of Dr. John Cook
7:25
Bennett, claimed that tomato ketchup.
7:28
Now you start adding tomatoes to the sauce
7:30
Sylvia Lovely: All right, now you, now you talk me off the ledge.
7:32
Mm-hmm.
7:32
Nancy May: I'm talking off the ledge.
7:33
Don't worry about it So he said that tomato ketchup was a medicine that
7:37
could treat conditions like diarrhea, indigestion, jaundice, and he made
7:43
it in pill form, which is crazy.
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And then he sold it to pharmacies and grocery stores.
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Now tomatoes are supposed to be good for you anyway.
7:50
But all that acid in the tomato, I guess is a cure off to everything.
7:54
And since we did a show on food as medicine, we probably should have
7:57
added ketchup as a medicine, right?
8:00
Sylvia Lovely: Yeah.
8:00
I think later on you're gonna talk about that, Lipo or some something in it.
8:04
Something in it,
8:05
Nancy May: yeah.
8:05
yeah.
8:05
but back to the original roots, it really wasn't an additive to improve the flavor
8:09
of boring, nasty tasting foods, which is
8:13
Sylvia Lovely: Hmm.
8:14
Nancy May: kind of interesting.
8:15
Sylvia Lovely: so its original job was.
8:17
Fix this.
8:18
like what we do today.
8:19
people, like my chef at Azure, cringes, when people drench his creations
8:24
with ketchup, and I am one of those,
8:27
I like, okay, I have to say this quietly.
8:30
I like ketchup on a steak.
8:33
Nancy May: Oh, I do too.
8:34
Sylvia Lovely: there you go.
8:35
I'm in good company.
8:36
Nancy May: So I have, to admit though, in my refrigerator, I have
8:39
ketchup that's sugar free ketchup.
8:41
Sylvia Lovely: Mm-hmm.
8:42
Oh yeah,
8:42
Nancy May: And somebody once said, that must taste really nasty.
8:45
' cause Heinz has sugar in it and everything else.
8:47
I think it's a better tasting ketchup than the regular ketchup.
8:50
This one is, it's called, the primal brand, primal Ketchup.
8:54
It's very, very good.
8:55
Sylvia Lovely: Yeah, I would think it would bring out the tomato taste more.
8:59
and sugar kind of tend to alter taste,
9:02
and sometimes that's on purpose.
9:03
Nancy May: right and, and ketchup was really never meant to be delicate.
9:06
It was meant to kick butt and remove the taste of stuff.
9:09
So you're right.
9:10
You might just eat a spoonful of ketchup and go
9:12
Sylvia Lovely: Mm-hmm.
9:13
you know, tomatoes, were not, as you've pointed out, were not a big thing or
9:17
even trusted in the early states.
9:19
And so, that's really hard for me to believe 'cause they're so
9:22
good for you and they're so tasty that, gosh, who started that rumor?
9:26
So it took a while.
9:28
Nancy May: yeah.
9:28
Have you ever tried making ketchup?
9:30
Sylvia Lovely: Never.
9:30
I'm not gonna do that.
9:31
I'm not gonna do that.
9:33
It's too easy to go to the grocery store and we don't use it that
9:37
much now if my grandchildren are over here all the time, they drench
9:40
everything in ketchup, like ruins their meal if they can't have ketchup
9:45
and Oh yeah.
9:46
Nancy May: And And what about mayonnaise?
9:48
So mayonnaise is another
9:49
Sylvia Lovely: Not so much.
9:50
Not so much.
9:51
Nancy May: No,
9:52
Sylvia Lovely: you know, one of the great debates out there is
9:53
do you put ketchup on a hot dog?
9:56
And that's a raging debate.
9:58
And that's, yeah.
10:00
So it's kind of interesting.
10:01
my hubby does.
10:02
I don't,
10:04
Nancy May: a, my dad.
10:04
talk about tradition.
10:05
I guess My dad used to make his own salad dressing
10:09
Sylvia Lovely: mm-hmm.
10:09
Nancy May: when we were kids, when he was feeling, I guess.
10:12
Food feisty.
10:13
my dad was, my dad was a pretty much meat and potatoes kind of guy.
10:16
Not a lot of fancy stuff, but he liked mayonnaise and everything
10:19
all on, on top of everything like you did with your ketchup.
10:22
So he would make his own French dressing, which was basically nothing more than
10:26
mayonnaise and a lot of ketchup and a little bit of Worcestershire sauce.
10:30
And he'd mix set up and put drench it all over everything.
10:32
So Ketchup really has a good weighted.
10:35
To be in addition to other things.
10:37
I guess drenching it on other things
10:39
Sylvia Lovely: so he made it kind of into a. A, salad dressing,
10:42
kind of a Russian dressing
10:44
Nancy May: like a, but yeah, Russian or French, I don't know what that is.
10:47
Sylvia Lovely: Yeah.
10:47
That kind, that has that kind of reddish tension to it Hmm.
10:50
Nancy May: because you've got the white of the mayonnaise.
10:52
Have you ever made mayonnaise?
10:53
Sylvia Lovely: No, and I, I don't typically do mayo, so you know, very
10:58
rarely, unless I do eggs or something and I do deviled eggs and I, I might, but
11:04
Nancy May: it's a fun experiment to do.
11:06
I've, you haven't made mayonnaise.
11:08
I would suggest doing it.
11:09
It's really simple.
11:10
You just take a couple of egg yolks, you throw 'em in the blender, you wear 'em
11:13
on up, and you slowly, slowly, slowly add like a drizzle of, of oil into the blend.
11:20
And you'll see how it whips up into this cream.
11:23
And then you just add a little bit of lemon juice, a little bit of lemon
11:27
juice, and then dry mustard or Dijon mustard and a little salt and pepper,
11:32
and voila, you have your own homemade mayonnaise, and then add ketchup to it.
11:36
Then you've got your dressing too.
11:38
Sylvia Lovely: yeah.
11:38
you know, that's kind of interesting because they tell you that if you're
11:41
really wanting to get away from ultra processed foods to make your own
11:45
salad dressings in your own mayo, because if you look at that ingredient
11:49
list on the back, it's some pretty weird sounding stuff, you know?
11:53
so I've started doing some of my own salad dressing, but I gotta get used to the
11:57
bitter taste or I gotta add more honey,
11:59
Nancy May: I have to say.
12:00
There's a little bit of bite to it, but, it is a lot easier
12:03
to go to the grocery store and.
12:05
I'm kind of a,
12:06
Sylvia Lovely: Mm-hmm.
12:06
Nancy May: I I have discovered down here, down south, it's a south southern thing.
12:10
. Duke's
12:10
Sylvia Lovely: Oh, Dukes.
12:11
I was gonna say Dukes is popular here too.
12:13
They say Do Dukes do it.
12:15
but anyway, moving on.
12:16
Did you know that the first known tomato-based ketchup recipe was
12:20
published in 1812 by a Philadelphia scientist named James Mease
12:24
and as we mentioned tomatoes were still viewed, with suspicion by
12:28
some in the US and Europe, they have slowly gained popularity.
12:31
Yay.
12:32
the love of ketchup, really took off after the Civil War, and we've talked
12:37
about how picnics were popular during that time as families gathered together.
12:41
To watch the battles.
12:42
I can't imagine wanting to do that, but I need to be entertained , they
12:45
didn't have Netflix and crime dramas.
12:47
Okay.
12:47
And all of that good stuff, so,
12:49
Nancy May: I'm gonna guess a ketchup was a lifesaver in more ways than one to some
12:52
of those soldiers in the field, especially those being, oh God, it's so gruesome.
12:56
And
12:56
watching that sry, I can't, I just can't imagine, and if they wanted to eat
13:01
good, I mean, they worked so hard in the field, so well in the field being
13:05
shot at that they had to have ketchup to spice up the picture a little bit.
13:08
Sylvia Lovely: yeah, so I can't imagine, that, but anyway, it was a use of,
13:12
ketchup and red, and it's kind of red.
13:14
very red.
13:15
but you know what?
13:16
Always got me caught.
13:17
Up as a kid how to spell it, and where'd they get that name?
13:21
and I'm not alone.
13:22
Apparently for a long time there was a lack of consensus on how to Spell it.
13:26
K-E-T-C-H-U-P, which eventually became something of a joke.
13:30
So the domestic chemist from 1831 counted three popular spellings.
13:35
That was K-E-T-C-H-U-P, the most known, kaupp, C-A-T-S-U-P, and Ka.
13:42
Which I like.
13:43
C-A-T-C-H-U-P.
13:45
And so these three words indicate a sauce the author writes, of
13:49
which the name can be pronounced by everybody, but spelled by nobody.
13:53
Nancy May: I love that.
13:54
Sylvia Lovely: All right.
13:54
In line with the Times, the book notes that ketchup is the product of the
13:58
liquification of salted mushrooms, and it makes no mention of tomatoes.
14:03
What is wrong
14:04
with this schizophrenic condiment?
14:06
Nancy May: Yeah.
14:06
we already know that you like ketchup, but, I can't even imagine why it would
14:10
be fishy ketchup to begin with anyway.
14:12
Sylvia Lovely: I know how weird.
14:13
Anyway, it's survived, hasn't it?
14:15
Nancy May: It has,
14:16
Sylvia Lovely: In one form or another.
14:18
Nancy May: let's, take a, a, quick break, but before we do that, I wanna
14:21
share a little story about, lost recipes, which is important because
14:25
part of this is what we're talking about in many cases of, our book.
14:28
But I got a note from one of our local neighbor who bought
14:31
our book and said, you know.
14:33
I got a call from my niece the other day who wanted my recipe for chicken, and
14:38
she had tried several different recipes and they just weren't Kathy's recipe.
14:43
So Kathy said, that's pretty easy because I've never written it down.
14:46
So now she's written it, down, so her niece and others will
14:49
have it for years to come.
14:51
But.
14:51
This is a ketchup story.
14:52
My mom had a recipe for some sort of pork chops that include french onion
14:57
soup and ketchup, and I remember those as a kid, and they were so good.
15:02
Sylvia Lovely: You mean together?
15:03
Nancy May: Oh yeah,
15:04
Sylvia Lovely: Hmm.
15:04
Nancy May: she pan fried the pork chops and then added french onion soup.
15:09
I don't know whether it was Campbell's mixed with the ketchup or something,
15:12
but it was a saucy kind of thing, and then just cooked them on the stove top.
15:16
Those were like one of my favorite meals, and I never got the recipe.
15:19
And I can't figure it out.
15:21
So it's a lost recipe that I've got I'm glad that Kathy's not
15:25
losing her recipe for her family.
15:27
let's take a quick break because there's a lot more in store about
15:30
ketchup and hopefully not lost recipes, but we'll be right back.
16:01
So we're back Sylvia.
16:02
How many ways do you like to use ketchup?
16:05
Sylvia Lovely: let's see, french fries, although I'm not addicted to it the
16:08
way my grandkids are, in steak and any kinda meat, although if it's a really
16:13
good sauce, I can leave the ketchup off.
16:16
and then you mentioned meatloaf, I think at some point
16:18
Nancy May: Meal?
16:18
Yeah.
16:19
Do you like it on eggs?
16:20
I think that's
16:21
disgusting.
16:21
Ketchup on eggs.
16:22
Sylvia Lovely: no.
16:23
But, the home fries maybe?
16:24
Yeah.
16:25
Nancy May: Yeah, that's not a breakfast thing for me.
16:27
Sylvia Lovely: So anyway, yeah, I'm pretty standard
16:29
Nancy May: did you know that the most popular ketchup brand today is Hinze?
16:33
I think that's kind of obvious.
16:35
Sylvia Lovely: Oh, that is kind of obvious,
16:36
Nancy May: Although I do like my primal non-sugar but that a whole history of
16:40
Heinz company is kind of interesting beyond the fact that so many families have
16:44
made huge businesses out of food and food.
16:49
Family food recipes, and this was kind of the same.
16:51
So he's company was founded in 1876 and became a major force in popularizing
16:57
the condiment of ketchup, and it eventually became an American staple.
17:01
I can't remember not having ketchup in our refrigerator as a kid.
17:05
Do you?
17:05
Sylvia Lovely: Oh no.
17:06
It's always been there.
17:07
Yeah.
17:07
I mean, it was a staple.
17:08
Mm-hmm.
17:08
Nancy May: So the name, and the original Long Neck bottle
17:12
brings back so many memories.
17:14
unfortunately you have those squeeze bottles, it's just not the same.
17:19
Sylvia Lovely: I know as that glass bottle,
17:21
Nancy May: yeah, I love the fact that Heinz is now, this year
17:24
coming up on its birthday.
17:27
we have to put a candle in our ketchup next time we eat it,
17:29
Sylvia Lovely: Mm-hmm.
17:30
Mm-hmm.
17:31
Nancy May: but, so here's a little factoid.
17:33
Did you know that the 57 number 57 branding was actually a marketing
17:37
ploy rather than a factual count of the items in the product?
17:41
Sylvia Lovely: You know, I had never really thought about it.
17:43
So it's not six seven, huh?
17:45
Nancy May: No, now it's not six seven, it's five seven.
17:50
I think we need to do a whole TikTok thing on six seven with Hinze.
17:53
But anyway, Henry Hinze, was a bit of a backpedal on the story, and he
17:57
said actually that 57 was created by the combination of his two favorite
18:02
lucky numbers, five and seven.
18:04
Sylvia Lovely: There you go.
18:05
Nancy May: He thought so he figured from a, this is the market over the years,
18:08
I had spent my early years in advertising and my husband called me marketing slime
18:13
because darn those marketers, you know, they way of manipulating our brain.
18:17
I think Henry Hinze was one of those as well, but he thought that the number seven
18:21
has a psychological influence that anybody at any age can actually understand,
18:25
like kids even understand the lucky number seven, it's not three, it's not.
18:30
Six, seven.
18:31
It's five and seven, so that was rather fascinating.
18:35
And then he put it on the classic long neck bottles.
18:38
Sylvia Lovely: Yeah, and I, know that there's kind of an engineering
18:41
sciencey piece to this on those bottles.
18:45
according to the company, this embossed number serves a functional purpose.
18:49
We've all done it the optimal.
18:51
Tapping spot on a glass bottle it works.
18:54
It really works
18:58
miles per hour.
18:59
I mean, yeah,
19:01
I
19:01
love that discovery Hey, have you heard people at a party?
19:05
people you don't know.
19:06
And you'll say, this happens a lot at horse events because
19:09
there are people from everywhere.
19:11
And you'll say, tell me where you're from.
19:14
Oh, I'm a Heinz 57.
19:15
It means they're a mix of a lot of things.
19:18
Nancy May: Or your dog.
19:19
is a Heinz 57.
19:20
Sylvia Lovely: Yeah.
19:21
Nancy May: I tell you, it's brilliant marketing in the long run because
19:25
you always think of ketchup, but I've never tapped it on the neck.
19:28
I always smack it on the butt.
19:30
Sylvia Lovely: then I guess you like the waiting game, don't you?
19:33
Nancy May: I, I guess
19:34
Sylvia Lovely: No.
19:35
I've thrown it against the wall, but I mean, no, not really.
19:37
I'm
19:38
not that bad.
19:38
Nancy May: Catchup story.
19:39
Sylvia Lovely: All right,
19:40
Nancy May: Okay.
19:40
So growing up my mom's best friend, Carol Kocka, oh my God.
19:45
Long story short, but on the side Carol had contracted pancreatic
19:49
cancer and, and later on in life, and she eventually passed away.
19:54
I never heard my mother cry.
19:55
My mother called me and told me that she died, and all I heard was my
19:59
mom crying on the other side of the
20:00
phone.
20:01
It was just heartbreaking, but I don't wanna leave on a sad note.
20:04
I wanna share a, a positive note because Carol lives on in many memories
20:09
with me, and I used to babysit her kids and she would always make the best
20:14
meatloaf And it was always slathered with tons of ketchup on the top.
20:19
Sylvia Lovely: Oh yeah.
20:21
Nancy May: It was amazing.
20:23
I have never been able to replicate quite that taste that I think
20:26
something about who makes it too
20:28
Sylvia Lovely: Mm-hmm.
20:29
Oh yeah.
20:29
It's always about that, right?
20:31
and the memory that it creates.
20:34
that was a staple in our house.
20:36
And meatloaf and ketchup, exactly the same thing, and I don't know what it
20:40
is, but before they started making soda, have you noticed how sodium,
20:44
low sodium, Condiments or Campbell soup don't taste quite as good.
20:48
Nancy May: They're awful.
20:48
Yeah.
20:49
Sylvia Lovely: And I think somehow that saltiness in the tomato with she kind of
20:53
thing filters down into the porous parts of the meat, the hamburger
20:58
meat that you put all that together.
21:00
That's my theory.
21:01
I'm not a food scientist, but that's what I think happens.
21:04
So it permeates and then it's juicy.
21:07
It's just wonderful.
21:09
I love
21:10
Nancy May: It gives a little, crunch to it too when it's cupped.
21:12
Sylvia Lovely: that top is, is crunchy.
21:14
Oh, yes.
21:15
I love it.
21:16
I love it.
21:17
Nancy May: You know what's interesting about ketchup in,
21:19
general is that we probably have some memories about certain ketchup.
21:22
the brands that we like or where we got the
21:24
more being at camp, right?
21:26
If camp didn't have the ketchup, then you couldn't eat camp food for sure as a kid.
21:31
But, here are a few other uses for ketchup that you may not have thought about.
21:36
First of all, I had a family member who thought of.
21:38
Ketchup is a vegetable.
21:40
I will not share who that individual is because it will get me
21:44
in a boatload of trouble.
21:46
But no ketchup is not a vegetable,
21:49
Sylvia Lovely: Yeah.
21:49
the school systems certainly agree with that.
21:52
Nancy May: right?
21:52
Depends upon it.
21:54
You can actually clean metal with ketchup.
21:57
Did you know that?
21:58
Sylvia Lovely: No, I don't think I'm gonna try that.
22:00
Nancy May: I'd be, I'm gonna have to try it.
22:01
I haven't tried it.
22:02
We'll let Bob try it.
22:03
But if you're out of metal, Polish, Polish and you, just say you've got some
22:06
silver, some old grandma, silver, and it needs to be polished up, grab some
22:09
ketchup and thanks to the acidity, it will actually shine up copper and brass.
22:15
And I think silver too, like a pro.
22:18
But please rinse it off before you put it.
22:21
it back in your mouth because I don't know, maybe the
22:23
Sylvia Lovely: Also, my only question here is you got, you
22:25
gotta actually polish things.
22:27
Nancy May: Yeah, I always try and put it in the dishwasher, hoping
22:29
the dishwasher will make the thing,
22:30
Sylvia Lovely: There you go.
22:31
and, you know, ketchup's bright red color wasn't always so innocent.
22:35
Oh, this, this is gross.
22:36
Some manufacturers used You know, I'm surprised people didn't live beyond 40.
22:41
Nancy May: Right.
22:42
Sylvia Lovely: coal tar.
22:43
Yeah.
22:43
Coal tar is that COAL folks, to achieve that perfect primary red
22:49
color, imagine what was in it, gets its color today from real tomatoes.
22:54
Now I've not looked
22:55
Nancy May: What is coal tar?
22:56
Do you know what coal tar is?
22:58
Sylvia Lovely: no, I mean, I'm
22:59
Nancy May: I think of, I think of cult tar as the stuff that
23:01
you put on, road tops when
23:03
Sylvia Lovely: Yeah.
23:04
Yeah, I think it is.
23:05
I think it is.
23:06
It's black and icky and But you know, I haven't looked at the ingredient list.
23:10
Like when you talk about making your own, it might be worth it because
23:13
I'm really big into avoiding.
23:15
Ultra processed foods.
23:16
I mean, why not eliminate risk where you can and, and in the book I'm reading
23:21
about the history of cancer, they think that's kind of the new frontier of cancer
23:26
research is the relationship to food.
23:29
in all.
23:30
Nancy May: I think there's a big deal.
23:31
There's a big deal on
23:32
Sylvia Lovely: And what causes what and all that.
23:34
and during World War ii, which dictated a whole lot of our interesting traditions
23:38
today, ketchup wasn't just for burgers.
23:41
It was a culinary lifesaver for soldiers.
23:44
Its strong flavor.
23:45
Again, helped mask the taste of blend military rations like the meatloaf.
23:50
I think the sodium
23:51
soaks down.
23:53
Yeah, ketchup to the rescue, one tin can at a time.
23:56
And it was easy to carry and it, it.
23:59
kept well.
24:00
So I think that's kind of cool.
24:01
Nancy May: Have you ever had one of those, or, or CI guess
24:04
they're C rations, not K rations.
24:06
Have you ever had one of those?
24:07
Sylvia Lovely: No one either.
24:09
Nancy May: So little side detour in the story.
24:12
up north when they had some hurricanes that just hit and we, our town was out
24:17
of electricity for, I think the longest was almost two weeks without electricity.
24:22
It was a long, long time.
24:24
The town was, and I guess it was FEMA too, was handing out the
24:28
military rations to families.
24:30
Based on how many people you had in your household.
24:32
So Bob hoarded them.
24:35
We still have
24:36
Sylvia Lovely: I bet, I bet he gets those packets too.
24:38
He is probably
24:39
got a
24:39
whole
24:39
Nancy May: the whole package, he says you have to try it.
24:41
I, I am not trying it.
24:43
I try to taste it one, and first of all, it has something like
24:46
25,000 calories in one packet.
24:49
It's
24:49
Sylvia Lovely: Oh
24:49
Nancy May: I'm not eating that.
24:51
Sylvia Lovely: Uhuh.
24:51
Nancy May: But the cookies are always good and they have some ketchup in there too.
24:55
But, it's kind of interesting that those things survived.
24:58
No wonder the ketchup survived in those things because I think they really needed,
25:02
it was pretty nasty and salty and anyway.
25:05
here's some other interesting things about ketchup.
25:08
Did you know that we consume about 300 million pounds of ketchup each year.
25:15
That's roughly 13 billion servings and about 71 pounds of ketchup per person.
25:21
I know I don't eat that much
25:22
Sylvia Lovely: Somebody is getting a lot of ketchup.
25:24
'cause I don't even come close.
25:26
Nancy May: I don't think I even buy two bottles of a and a course.
25:29
maybe be two bottles in the course of a year Anyway, When you think of it from
25:31
an economic perspective, economics of food, that's about 12 million tons of
25:37
ketchup at a value of worth $900 million.
25:41
I'm gonna go make a bottle of ketchup and see if I can sell it.
25:45
Sylvia Lovely: Mm-hmm.
25:46
if you.
25:46
Right now, in this day and age, say it's non-processed, it's
25:49
got, blah, blah, blah, and you
25:51
Nancy May: Yeah.
25:51
I don't think it should be called ketchup.
25:53
I think it be, should be called ka ch instead.
25:57
Sylvia Lovely: That's funny.
25:58
Oh, that's funny.
26:00
Yeah.
26:00
So
26:01
Nancy May: anyway, one more thing.
26:02
Do you know that, the episode that we did on food and medicine, that ketchup was
26:06
now sold in the 18 hundreds as a medicine.
26:09
So I think that we really should go back to maybe, like I said before, adding
26:13
ketchup as medicine in that other episode.
26:16
we'll put a link into the show notes because well.
26:19
If you can't hear me now, I have a cold.
26:22
So, but the reason why it was considered a medicine is apparently ketchup contains
26:27
phytochemicals and lycopene, which has been attributed to reducing cancer risks.
26:33
And the other thing is that, you can consume it like a tomato juice.
26:37
So
26:38
I wouldn't sure I would, I wouldn't consume ketchup like a. Tomato juice
26:42
or sauce, but I guess you could put it in a bloody Marion vodka probably
26:46
takes care of some of that too.
26:47
Sylvia Lovely: There's something about Lyco, lyco li lycopene.
26:51
yeah, I can't which way it goes here.
26:54
That cooking the tomatoes.
26:56
Actually releases more of it, or it's not cooking them.
26:59
Yeah, it's one or the other.
27:01
'cause I, I wish I could have thought about looking that up
27:05
because that's kind of interesting.
27:07
I think it's that cooking actually releases more of that.
27:11
So your recipe of your mother, putting ketchup in and cooking might be a good
27:15
Nancy May: we ate a, we, a lot of ate of it was, let me say that straight.
27:19
We ate a lot of ketchup, soaked with onions.
27:22
Sylvia Lovely: Mm-hmm.
27:23
Nancy May: Pork chops.
27:24
Sylvia Lovely: anyway, kind of interesting, but whatever,
27:27
you can, it floats your boat.
27:28
You can load it on your burger.
27:30
They don't count it as a vegetable, so you might wanna add something,
27:35
onion, something, I don't know.
27:36
Nancy May: onions is also onions in your sock.
27:38
Also, another good remedy according to grandma.
27:41
I did not know that.
27:43
cooking tomatoes actually makes the lycopene release.
27:46
Usually cooking kills stuff,
27:48
Sylvia Lovely: know.
27:49
That's why we need to confirm that.
27:50
I don't know.
27:50
Somebody out there let us know.
27:52
Nancy May: I have to say that anytime I cook tomatoes, it's usually in a
27:56
tomato sauce for spaghetti or lasagna
27:58
or something like that.
27:59
I'm always add adding like a bottle of red wine, so tomatoes, a little
28:03
lycopene, a little grape juice.
28:05
I think it's probably doing its job really
28:08
Sylvia Lovely: Yeah, you haven't lived in the south, so you've had
28:11
fried red tomatoes and corn meal.
28:14
I like fried reds more than I like fried greens because they're tender oh gosh,
28:19
Nancy May: Probably juicier too, right?
28:20
Sylvia Lovely: and I make up my own recipe.
28:22
You're supposed to put like flour and cornmeal together and
28:25
blah, blah, blah.
28:25
But I, and I know it's a binding thing, but I just lather them, know, put
28:30
'em through, like, make 'em moist and then they catch the, or an egg as, as
28:35
a binding agent, and then you can dredge them and then you put 'em in.
28:39
And of course, the little rumbles that fall off the tomato are really good.
28:42
And then I put Parmesan on top and it's,
28:44
Nancy May: Ooh, that
28:45
Sylvia Lovely: that.
28:46
Yeah.
28:46
Simple, simple, simple, simple.
28:49
I'm simple.
28:50
Nancy May: I think the moral of this show should actually be good things come to
28:54
those who have a little patience can wait for the katchup to slow down to the flow.
28:58
Of 0.28 miles per hour.
29:01
I don't have that patience, but I've got as you get older,
29:05
Sylvia Lovely: Well,
29:05
Nancy May: But anyway,
29:06
Sylvia Lovely: yeah.
29:06
most of us have probably converted to the plastic bottle.
29:09
'cause I know my kids, although they got into the smacking it on the 57 and maybe
29:14
they get just a high on bottle butt too.
29:16
smacking it there.
29:18
Nancy May: think, every kid should have the challenge or
29:20
be given the challenge of.
29:22
Taking ketchup out of a long neck bottle and not putting your knife down it.
29:26
Sylvia Lovely: Oh, I know I've done that.
29:27
Nancy May: So, if you have a great story or memory or experience about
29:31
Katchup or any other kind of condiment, we'd love to hear your story.
29:35
go to podcast.family tree food stories and click on contact.
29:39
there, you can send us a note and we'll take it from there, And remember to
29:44
subscribe, share, and like the episode.
29:46
And never forget every meal has a story and every story is a feast.
29:51
Take care.
29:51
We'll see you soon bye-bye.