Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Teen girl found shot dead after hysterical 911 call. Murder or suicide?

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Teen girl found shot dead after hysterical 911 call. Murder or suicide? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace. What city is your burgessing?
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know where I am. I'm yeah, I'm good. Listen,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: take a deep breath. You know a city you're in?
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Are you in brex Hill? Are you hold on? Hold on?
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Let me see I'm I'm yeah, I'm in Breckshill, all right?
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: And you're calling from age four h three five? Yes, yes,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: I'm connecting. I'm connecting you right over to brecks Hill.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna be right here with you. Don't hang up.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: M Wow, you are hearing a nine one one call
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  Speaker 1: that will send shivers down your spine. A teen commits suicide.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: That's tragic in itself, But is that the whole story?
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I may see, Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: for being with us. Take a listen to more of
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: that nine one one call. Let's see what clues have
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: been left behind. Nine one My friend. My friend tried
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: to take a bunch of pills to kill himself, and
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: so I went to go and get him, but I
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: she shot himself. I mean, I mean some local park
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: in Breakfell. Is he alive? Check or anything like that? Okay,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: what's your what is your location? I guess in Breckville.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Oh hunt, let me see what was that happen in
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  Speaker 1: the full reservation in Breel Reservation. I'm down one of
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  Speaker 1: the one of the side streets off off Breakville Road.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: More of that nine one one calling and immediately leaps
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: to my mind. Who is making the call and why
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: are they there at a suicide? I mean, typically if
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: somebody's with you, they're talking you out of committing suicide.
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  Speaker 1: So at first, of course you want to believe the
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: person calling nine one one, But then I mean it's
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: got a dot on somebody. Why is this person calling
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  Speaker 1: to tell me about suicide? Why are they there as
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: a witness? What an all star panel? We have? Ashley Wilcot,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: judge and trial lawyer. You can find her at Ashley
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Wilcott dot com. Stephen Lampley were now detective at Stephen
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Lampley dot com. New book Outside Your Door on Amazon.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Doctor Katherine Maloney, Deputy Chief Medical Examiner there at Erie
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: County with Nicol City Forensics. Don't ask her or how
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: many autopsies she's performed. You don't have time to hear
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: them all, literally hundreds and hundreds. Doctor Carla Manley joining me,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: psychologist and fear specialist at doctor Carla Manley dot Com
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: of so many books, her most recent one Aging Joyfully
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: on Amazon, and right now to Fox A Cleveland investigative
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: journalist Peggy Gallick. Peggy, I've got so many questions about
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: this nine one call, but let's start with who is
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: the victim and what are the circumstances surrounding the victim's death. Well,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: the victim police are just giving us the name of eighth.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: This was a juvenile, This was an According to the
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: autopsy reporter, it was a female. She was a female,
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: and they're only giving us the first name of eighth. Now,
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  Speaker 1: the she apparently was having some issues and she was
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: picked up by her friend. Who you heard on that
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: nine one one call with me, Peggy Gallock, Fox A Cleveland, Peggy,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: I find it very curious that she Ace is not
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: alone at the time of her suicide. Let me just
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: start at the beginning. Where did the suicide take place? Sure,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: the suicide took place at the Brexville Reservation of the
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: Cleveland Metroparks. It's in Brexville, Ohio, which is outside of Cleveland,
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  Speaker 1: about twenty twenty miles east outside of Cleveland. So let
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: me understand is that a park. You're saying reservation is
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  Speaker 1: a park or a nature reserve? What is it? It's
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: a park, it's the Cleveland Metro Parks is all over
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  Speaker 1: the Cleveland area, obviously, and it's a It's a very curious,
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: It's very curious. Peggy with me from Fox Say Cleveland
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  Speaker 1: investigative journalist, Peggy Gallop. Because you know, doctor Carla Manley, psychologist, author, specialist.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: You know, I've studied and studied and studied over many
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: many years the method and assessment of homicide and suicide.
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  Speaker 1: It's very unusual. That's someone I'm just this is all anecdotal,
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  Speaker 1: to leave your surroundings such as your home, and go
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  Speaker 1: to an open area, unless you're jumping off a cliff,
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  Speaker 1: to shoot yourself dead. Because typically, and my experience over
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  Speaker 1: many many years, people commit suicide alone where they won't
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  Speaker 1: be discovered, for instance, in their home with the door
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  Speaker 1: locked and shut. I find this very odd to carl A. Manley, absolutely,
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  Speaker 1: there is definitely something bizarre about the situation where there
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  Speaker 1: are two people present, one is not talking the other
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  Speaker 1: person out of committing suicide. But indeed what seems to
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  Speaker 1: have happened is that it was the person was enabled,
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  Speaker 1: and that makes it a really suspicious situation, right. You know,
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  Speaker 1: there's a fine line, doctor Carlo Manley, between enabled and murder.
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  Speaker 1: But long story short, I find it very very unusual
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  Speaker 1: to ask you, Willcott that there's a witness to a suicide.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I'll never forget, Ashley, never forget. David was
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: coming home to New York. They'd been out of town traveling.
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  Speaker 1: It was either right before or right after we had
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: the twins, and he had taken a really early morning flood.
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  Speaker 1: He was getting back into Legardi, like you know, getting
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  Speaker 1: there at seven or eight in the morning. Anyway, he
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  Speaker 1: came to the door him somebody at the door. I
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: ran to the door to see who it was. At
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  Speaker 1: twins were asleep, and I opened the door. His face
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: was as white as a sheet, Ashley, I said, what
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  Speaker 1: is it? He said, I saw a guy jump off
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  Speaker 1: a bridge, so he had to be coming over the
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: fifty ninth Street bridge to get to our place from LaGuardia. Anyway,
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  Speaker 1: I said, well, are you sure, and he went yes.
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  Speaker 1: The guy had on a coat and I saw it
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  Speaker 1: fly up around him as he jumped, and that detail
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  Speaker 1: was so graphic. I mean, I knew that's what he
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  Speaker 1: had seen. It was not a mistake, said, as you
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  Speaker 1: call a police. He went, yes, I called police immediately
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  Speaker 1: and they were on their way, and before I got here,
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  Speaker 1: I heard sirens. So it was just it just threw
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  Speaker 1: him off, and it threw me off to the point
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  Speaker 1: I still remember it. And Ashley, I recall my very
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: very dear friend in the cable TV business, Bob. We
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: had known each other for years and years. Out of
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: the blue, I find out he committed suicide. He went
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: swimming at night in the San Francisco Bay. Of course
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  Speaker 1: I've never been convinced to a suicide, but it's just
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  Speaker 1: such a shot, such a shock. My point is, Ashley,
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  Speaker 1: how can somebody stand by and let that happen? Well,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: what goes hand in hand with suicide, Nancy, is that
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  Speaker 1: you are by yourself, or in the alternative, sometimes you
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  Speaker 1: hear about more than one person, but they commit suicide together, right,
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  Speaker 1: So it doesn't make good common sense and it doesn't
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  Speaker 1: feel right that somebody else is present when there's a
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  Speaker 1: suicide and they survived, because that's not typical. That's not
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  Speaker 1: usually what happens at all. Stephen Lampley, you've been around
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  Speaker 1: the block a couple of times. What do you think
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  Speaker 1: about there being a witness to a suicide. I don't
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  Speaker 1: like it. Well, Nancy, there, you're correct, But there are
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  Speaker 1: rare instances where an Indian I've never been on one
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  Speaker 1: of those where an individual would be with someone attempting
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  Speaker 1: to talk them out and they would just all of
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: a sudden commit the act suicide. Anyway, those are very
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: very rare. The closest that I have ever come to
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  Speaker 1: that in twenty one years was attempting to serve a
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  Speaker 1: juvenile pickup order on a juvenile and before I got
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: to his bedroom, he committed suicide. He knew I was coming,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: but we didn't know he had a gun. But you're right,
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  Speaker 1: it's very very rare for two individuals to be there
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  Speaker 1: and the other party actually commits suicide in their presence.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, a team commits suicide. You know,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: I've got so many questions about it, and I'm going
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: to circle back to doctor Katherine Maloney regarding trajectory path
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  Speaker 1: and how you can really health this was a suicide.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: But with me Fox Say at Cleveland investigative journalists Peggy Gallock,
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  Speaker 1: Peggy Okay, back to this. You're telling me they're out
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  Speaker 1: in like a nature preserved type part. They're about twenty
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  Speaker 1: miles outside of the city of Cleveland. They certainly wanted
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: to get away. I mean, it just seems to me
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  Speaker 1: that your friend would know you've got a gun and
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  Speaker 1: you're driving twenty miles away where nobody will be around.
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  Speaker 1: What time of the day or night was it, and
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  Speaker 1: how did this unfold? Peggy? This happened at night about nine,
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  Speaker 1: about nine forty six on July twelfth, So it was
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: just starting to get dark that you know, that time
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  Speaker 1: and summer, and this was out in the picnic area
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  Speaker 1: north of the Picnic Area as that reservation at the time,
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  Speaker 1: So they pretty much felt that they were going to
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: be by themselves out in that area. Take a listen
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  Speaker 1: to what else we learn on the nine one one
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  Speaker 1: call ye swallow a bunch of pills. And so I
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: went to get I pulled over because I had my
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  Speaker 1: phone in my trunk, uh huh. So I got out
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  Speaker 1: of the car to grab it. He grab it, got
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  Speaker 1: out of the vac None of your thought, you know that, right?
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  Speaker 1: You know, absolutely, Are you the friend who called Parma
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  Speaker 1: or brought lights police earlier. No, somebody else called, I
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  Speaker 1: believe so, yeah, I think they did. How old was
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: your friend? Okay? Eddy, he said he told you he
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  Speaker 1: was going to take some pills. Take He did take pills,
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  Speaker 1: and he did take pills. Okay, he was throwing up
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: at the window of my car. Wow, more of that
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  Speaker 1: heartbreaking nine one one call. Now you're hearing the voice
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  Speaker 1: of nineteen year old Duncan macleroy. Listen to Morre. How
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  Speaker 1: old are you? Duncan? Oh come today because it was
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  Speaker 1: highly a good one. But is he ready to do? Yes? Okay? Nothing? Okay?
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: How do you spell your life from slate? Why ou
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: r ock? Okay? Conam, my dad hasn't had it for
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: so long. You're hearing more of that nine one one call.
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  Speaker 1: We understand according to the caller that Ace just a
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: seventeen year old girl, swallowed a lot of peels. Then
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: they pulled the car over to get the phone out
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  Speaker 1: of the trunk, and apparently somehow was there a gunshot wound.
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  Speaker 1: Peggy Gallop Fox say Cleveland, how was the death? Ostensibly
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  Speaker 1: a suicide achieved? It was gunshot. Ace, the seventeen year
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  Speaker 1: old died of a gunshot wound and police. Then you
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  Speaker 1: know they arrived at the scene and try to put
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  Speaker 1: this together. So with a gun. Now on the phone
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  Speaker 1: on the nine one you hear a lot about um
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  Speaker 1: her Ace taking some pills. And I find that interesting
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  Speaker 1: in itself, because in my mind, Ashy Wilcot, if somebody,
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  Speaker 1: if my friend were stuffing peels down enough to kill themselves,
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  Speaker 1: I turned out to get to the ear pronto instead
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  Speaker 1: of continuing on. But that's not what happened. And according
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  Speaker 1: to the nine one one call, it sounds like Ace
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  Speaker 1: grabbed a gun, ran into the woods and shot herself
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  Speaker 1: in the head. Now, the whole thing's not fitting together
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: for me, Ashley. No, not for me either. And keep
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: in mind that friends know what other friends are going
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  Speaker 1: through and how they're feeling and what's going on with them,
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  Speaker 1: and so honestly, most people are good. Most people know
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: if they have a friend that's going through these things,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: not only would they rush into the ear call nine
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  Speaker 1: one one, they certainly would not keep a firearm somewhere
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  Speaker 1: that would even be accessible to their friends who may
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: be struggling. Let me go now to Nickel City Deputy
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Chief Medical Examiner there at Erie County with Nickel City
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: forensics at the Erie County Medical Examiner's Office. You know
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: her well, doctor Catherine Maloney. Doctor Maloney, what are some
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  Speaker 1: of the ways you can look at this team girl's
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: dead body and determine whether this was accident, murder or suicide. Well,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: what you can look at is the location of the
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: gunshot wound on the head. There are certain areas, especially
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: when you have a long arm like a shotgun, where
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: it's easier to shoot oneself, whereas other areas of the
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: head where it would be difficult, if not impossible, because
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: of the way you have to kind of hold one
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  Speaker 1: arm out very far away from your head to get
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: to the trigger because the barrel is so long. The
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: other thing to look at is whether or not there's
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: fouling or gunpowder in the wound or around the wound,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: and the type of damage that was inflicted to the head.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: Another issue when we're talking about homicide and suicide to
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: doctor Carlo Manley, psychologist, you can find at doctor Carlo
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Manley dot com her new book Aging Joyfully on Amazon.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Doctor Carla, again, if you look at suicide statistics, it
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: is extremely rare for a female to shoot themselves dead.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: I mean suicide is definitely categorized by age, by gender,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: by race, by socioeconomic standards, by education. Who kills themselves
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: and how and where? And it's almost unheard of for
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: a female to shoot herself dead, Doctor Carlo Manley, those
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: are the statistics. Does it happen? Sure? Is it often?
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  Speaker 1: Very rarely so? Which which adds fuel to my flame
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: of what really happened. Absolutely, when you look at what
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: happened at her age, female identified as male right growing
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: up outside the window, that would be more consistent somebody
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: who had taken pills. And I absolutely agree. Turn around,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: you would normally take that young woman to an emergency facility.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: But to have her shoot herself in the head, it
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. Again, with the statistics, it's very inconsistent.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the weapon. To Peggy Gallup fox Sake,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: Cleveland investigative journalists, what kind of weapon was it? According
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: to the report here, it was a rifle. It was
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: a twenty two hour caliber ammunition with the report says, wow,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: So talking about a rifle. Back to you, doctor Kathy Maloney,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: how hard is it to shoot yourself dead with a
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: rifle a long gun? I mean, just think this through.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: It's not like you hold a handgun up to your
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: head and pull a trigger. You have to turn the
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: thing with the barrel pointing toward you and pull the
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: trigger backwards, like say, for instance, with your rib, pulling
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: it back toward your index finger, and propping the gun
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: up with your left hand if you're right handed, in
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: the reverse if you're left handed. I mean, that's not
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: an easy thing to do, is it, Doctor Katherine Maloney.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: It's definitely a lot more difficult than it would be
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: with a handgun, for sure. And there are also certain
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: areas on the head where it would be nearly impossible
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: to shoot oneself. Obviously the back of the head, and
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: even that the temple would be very difficult. Usually with
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: long arms, you see people shoot themselves you know more,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: I guess in the face or in the chin, because
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: that's easier. Yeah, And another thing, Jackie Howard here in
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: the studio is pointing out all this happened in the
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: time the friend went to the car trunk, she got
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: a gun. The victim, a stinger, got a gun, ran away,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: got to the woods and shot herself in that brief
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: amount of time. Okay, guys, let's go back to the
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: moment and the last of what we have with the
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: nine one one call, the one who told me that
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I could buy a gonna huge gat in with Anny. Yeah,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: I wonder. I'm wondering now if you just did it
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: so that he would have somebody with a gun your
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: fault Crime stories with Nancy Grace, the one who told
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: me that I could buy a gonna una in Anny, Yeah,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: I wonder. I'm wondering now if you just did it
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: so that he would have somebody with a gun, not
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: your fault. Do you have your headlights on your car, Dunkin, No,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: turn them on for me. That would be able to
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: help them find you a little quicker. Okay, I think lights,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: but they're they're leaving again. What's that? I saw lights?
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: But they got the dark again. They went past him again.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: He can't tell me where he is. Okay, I'm not
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: doubting the crying, the crying, that's a man crying. That's
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: not teen year old Duncan Chelroy crying. But then suddenly,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: when there he's asked a question, he straightens up and
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: gives a straight answer. Is it true, Peggy Gallock? These
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: two only met about two weeks before the shooting. That's
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: what he's telling police. That's his statement to police. So
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: you know they are still digging into this and still
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: being investigated to see exactly when they met. They're going
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: through social media to try to determine that. But that's
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: what he told police. Are these two in a romance relationship? Peggy?
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: He is saying no, but again that this is his
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: statement to police, and he's given inconsistent statements to police
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: according to the reports. So we don't know the truth
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: at this point. But he said no, wait a minute,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: you say they are inconsistent statements. What inconsistent state police?
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Now wait, let me understand. What if I understand, let
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: me make sure I have this right, sure too, Ashley Willcott.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: So these are two teams, the female victim, Ace Stinger,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: seventeen and the young man Duncan McElroy, the one crying
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: on the phone, nineteen year years old, have only known
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: each other two weeks and he's saying it's not a
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: romance or sex relationship, and he's been called an inconsistent statement.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Something is not fitting together, Ashley, Yeah, no, something doesn't
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: add up. And let me remind you, even though he's
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: a young man at nineteen, the brain's not fully developed.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: So basically you have two teenage brains and there is
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: something amiss. It doesn't make sense that he allegedly knows
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: these things about his friends and his behavior. Something isn't true. Well,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: another issue to add another wrinkle to this and trying
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: to figure out what happened is that Ace identifies she's
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: a young girl, she's a young lady. She identifies as
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: a man, and that adds a whole other layer of
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: potential emotional issues. How do I know if she hasn't
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: been bullied, How do I know if people didn't make
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: fun of her, How do I know if her family
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: had rejected her? To add to her emotional state, his
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: emotional state, it's it's very confusing and doctor Carlomanley at
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: doctor Carlomanley dot com, psychologist and fear specialist. Life is
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: hard enough, especially for teens, right even for a not
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: I trying to make everything and I know a lot
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: of people disagree with this as simple and straightforward for
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: the twins as I can. I try to give them
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: a smooth road and help in absolutely any way I can,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: whether it's laying their clothes out in the morning or
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: reminding them of the homework assignments to make their life
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: a little bit easy, because when they get older, life
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: is going to be hard. It ain't easy punching a
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: clock every day and making a living and putting up
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: with just life in general. Then you throw in identifying
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: with your the opposite gender, which has got to be
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: emotionally trying, and you know she's face rejection, probably ridicule.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: People have mistreated her, and that adds a whole another
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: layer for her. Doctor Carla Manley, absolutely when you add
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: in the piece of gender identity issues again, developmentally, for
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: a young person brain not fully milinated until they're twenty five,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: it's very difficult for them to not have Wait a minute,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: are you telling me what Ashley Wilcott said is true?
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: The brain is not formed. I thought she was just
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: fully milinated until twenty five, meaning it misfired. What are
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: you saying malinated? That sounds like laminated. What are you
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: saying the brain it's not fully what milinated, so that
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: the that the covering of the of the neural pathways
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: doesn't allow for misfiring, so that you're thinking without your
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: brain misfiring on you all the time. And so what happened, Well,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Ashley then apparently you're right, Ashley, maybe that, and I've
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: got lamination on my mind, Becau John David, nothing would do,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: so we get a laminating Now we're laminating everything, Ashley, everything.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: So you're right. I was just gonna say, did Nancy
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Grace say I was right on air? Can we just
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: play that twice and I'll get off now? Okay? Good? Thanks? Yeah, sadly,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: sadly where you know, this going straight out on the airways,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: so there's no way I can redact that. So you're right, Ashley,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: you win this round. But this is just this is
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: just the battle. It's just a skirmish. There's the war
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: to be had, doctor Carlomanley, So what's your point? I
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: think you're right, But what's your point You're getting at
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: as it relates to a stinger this girl. My point
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: is twofold a. You have the neurobiologically, you have the
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: teenage years being rather unsteady. That part is normal, we
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: expect that. Yet when you add in gender identity issues
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: the facts that go along with that, which are increased
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: rates of bullying if there is not adequate support at home,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: increased rates of suicidality, increased rates of anxiety, and depression.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: And if they don't have friends who are supportive, then
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: we have even more issues because gender identity is a serious,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: serious mental health concern. And again I want to I
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: want to point out we are not in any way
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: saying a mental health problem like a mental illness. And
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: I just find it very hard to believe that when
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: you have some type of an identity issue that how
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: can we discount that we're on the outside looking in.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: That is what how she felt, and we can't negate
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: that that is not a mental illness. That is how
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: she saw the world. Now, I'm certainly not a shrink,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: and so I can't help, but I do know I
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: don't want this suggested to be any type of a
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: mental illness or a defect. This is the way she
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: was created. She was created to identify with a different gender.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: That's her business, not mine. My business is what happened?
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: How did she end up dead? Now? Peggy Gallott earlier
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: had mentioned something about inconsistent statements. Could one of those
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: be about the rifle? What did he first say, I'm
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: talking about their little friend. Well he's not a little
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: he's nineteen years old, Duncan McElroy. That's an adult under
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: the law. What did he say about where the rifle
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: came from? As we remember and we heard him that
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: nine one, he said that you know that Ace stole
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: the gun from the trunk, from the back seat, from
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: the trunk when he stopped at the road. Later, when
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: he talked to police at the station, after he was
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: given his Miranda rights, he gave another statement. He then
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: told police, whoa so he gets arrested and has given
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: his Miranda rights. Yes, so police had to think that
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: he duncan McElroy was involved. Okay, go ahead, right and
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: the first he was voluntarily agreed to go to the
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Metroparks to give another statement. Once he was there, they
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: immediately gave him his Miranda rights. He then said that
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: he purchased the box of the ammunition and the rifle
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: on the same day, separate, two separate purchases, on July twelfth,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: and that he provided the rifle and ammunition to Ace,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: who was sitting in his vehicle at the time of
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: the purchase. Wow, which is different than what he said
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: on the nine one one. That is a lot different.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to police talking to McElroy. Did
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: you see a firearm it's fine. Is it back there
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: on him? Okay, there's something on your five stories with
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Could you see a firearm? It's fine, give
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: it back there on him. Okay, there's nothing on you? Right,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: So okay, what's yeah? Right? You're hearing him speaking. And
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: this is the person that we now know has been
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: given Miranda rights. Duncan McIlroy Now take a listen to
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: our friend Hannah Catlett at nineteen News. The man says
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: everything unfolded when he pulled his car over inside the
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Brexville Reservation. The police say there have been inconsistencies in
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: his stories and that that's why he's now a suspect
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: in this case. Police say the two had known each
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: other for two weeks. Officer said mckelroy tried to kill
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: the victim four days before he made this phone call too.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Just a short time before the call, police and McElroy
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: told them he'd purchased a rifle and ammunition. Tonight, he's
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: facing murder charges and four counts of assistant suicide. The
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: photo of this gorgeous young teen Ace Stinger found dead
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: in Breakfell just outside of Cleveland, and she has got
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: the most beautiful smile she doesn't look sad or depressed,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: which of course is no indicator. I don't know what's
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: going on in her personal life behind closed doors, but
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: I just heard something that made me stop in my tracks.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: Peggy Gallup, Foxay Cleveland investigative journalist. Is it true that
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Duncan McElroy tried to kill a stinger four days before?
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: The report that I received said the defendant tried to
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: kill the defendant four days before. So police are giving
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: me a little bit of different information than what I
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: heard on there. They're saying that he tried to kill
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: himself for days prior. Okay, that doesn't make sense to me.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at both of these and they both look
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: are baby faced and Ohio man just nineteen now accused
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: of helping a seventeen year old commits suicide by buying
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: a gun and AMMO and has pled not guilty. But
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: look at this evidence. McElroy buys the gun, buys themo,
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: drives ace the teen to the breakful reservation it's like
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: a nature preserve, then helps the teen commit suicide by
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: shooting in the head. I mean, when you lay it
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: out like that to doctor Katherine Maloney, what more can
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: you tell us about the friends six themselves. Well, really,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: with the autopsy, I mean, you could try looking for
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: a trace evidence and try looking at the characteristics of
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: the wound to see if you can tell something about
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: range of fire. That would be pretty suspicious as opposed
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: to a close range. And that's really the type of
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: information you're going to get from performing an auto absolutely.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: For instance, if duck On McElroy, now charged with murder
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: and assisted suicide, had gunshot residue on himself, that means
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: he is at least thirty six inches close to the shooting,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: because that's about how far gunshot residue. It's like baby
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: powder can travel at the time a weapon is fired.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: To ask she Wilcot, judge and trial lawyer. You can
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: find her at Ashley Wilcot dot com. Do you believe,
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: based on what you know about the case, there is
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: enough evidence convictim. Do you think that there's enough evidence
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: to convictim of some crime, for instance, assistance with suicide,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: Whether or not there is enough evidence to convictim of
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: murderers specifically going to depend on the forensics, because I
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: need to know a little more information about we're his
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: fingerprints on the gun, what was he doing specifically, and
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: then maybe I'm very curious about what she just said.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: If there are fingerprints on the gun and what more
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: forensically do we know to Peggy Yallick Fox at Cleveland, Peggy,
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: what do we know about forensics right now? We don't
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: know too much because that's still under investigation. We've been
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: trying to get the autopsy report and some other information
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: from that and we haven't been able to get it yet.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: It should be released in the next few weeks because
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: this is going on in court right now, So of
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: course the defense attorney is putting in, you know, requests
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: to get that information from the prosecutor, so we should
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: be seeing that sometime soon. There are also four counts
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: of assisted suicide. So let me understand something, Ashley Wilcot.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Is the murder, would the murder merge under the law
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: with assisted suicide or will they be standalone counts? For instance,
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: let's just say I shoot Jackie here in the studio,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: shoot or dead. Sorry, Jackie, it was nice knowing you.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: You're wonderful, rest in peace. I wish you only the
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: best in the next life. But the aggravated assault of
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: me holding the gut up and scaring her merges with
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: the murder, so there won't be two different sentences on that.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: So in this case, do you believe assisted suicide would
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: merge in that manner with murder? I don't, And here's why, because,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: in the state of Ohio, assisted assists suicide or assisting
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: suicide means knowingly helping the parent, excuse me, the person
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: not the parent, helping the person committed or attempts suicide,
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: versus the murder statute that specifically requires that it was
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: an intentional killing. And so I do not think it
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: would merge. That's my interpretation in the statute. I'm very
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: curious why they are not releasing any more information. What
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: more evidence, if any, do they have Peggy Gallot to
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: show a murder. Well, right now, the police are saying,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: you know, he provided that inconsistent statement, so that put
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: up their red flags right away. So they brought him
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: in to talk to him more, and he gave the police,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: you know, more information that you know he did get
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: that gun that day, that he actually provided the rifle
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: and ammunition to her when she was sitting in the car,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: So that was enough for them to arrest him. After
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: that time, he got a couple of lawyers and quit
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: talking to police. So they are still you know, putting
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: this all together, going through computers and phones. So try
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: to get this. It's in court right now. The prosecutors
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: actually wanted to revoke his bond last week and they
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: were able to work something out with the judge. But
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: they've added to his bond requirement that he's not allowed
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: to talk to any mine or or any high school
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: student other than his siblings, which I thought was very
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: interesting that they added that as part of his you know,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: bond to let him get out. And he is at
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: a facility right now, a mental health facility. Peggy Gallack,
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: just to buddy the water. Is it true that Duncan
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: McElroy is also charged with pandering obscenity involving a minor? Yes,
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: it is absolutely. He is facing one kind of that,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: you know, the four counts of the assistant suicide also
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: furnishing the firearm to a minor, but also that pandering
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: obscenity is definitely included in that. Well, I mean, what
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: are the facts surrounding the pandering obscenity? Plice aren't giving
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: us too much on that at this point, other than
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: he had some sort of images in his phone or
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: his computer. That's all that they're telling us that at
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: this time. I will tell you that adding fuel to
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: the flame is the fact of an alleged murder attempt
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: four days before the shooting. So we'll see how this
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: all pans out in a court of law. To Ashley Wilcott,
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: do you believe that there is a dangerous trend off
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: assist to suicides now? Well, you know, I don't know
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: that there's any more of a trend than there ever was,
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: or that it wasn't happening before, or rather, I think
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: the distinction is now the law is looking at it
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: and actually charging those who are assisting with murder or
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: assisting with suicide. So we know this is the second
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: case that you've covered specifically, and the young lady that
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: was texting our boyfriend in the car then committed suicide.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: So I think the trend now is as a society,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: we're not going to put up with this. These are
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: going to be individuals that are going to face criminal
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: charges if they make the decision to help their friend
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: do these things. Do you believe? Dotor Carlomanley, psychologists fear
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: specialist at Door Carlomanley dot Com that treatment should be
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: harsher or less harsh on people that assist with suicide.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: I think that it's important to look at the circumstances,
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: and I think that if it's something that's been that's
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: difficult because if it's a life threatening situation, somebody who's
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: suffering from cancer, that sort of thing that's considered you know,
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: assisted suicide, right. But in this case, where it's a teen,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: where there are alternatives, where there is help available for
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: whatever unrest is going on, I think that that's an
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: incredibly serious action and something that is very close, if
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: not akin to murder. Nancy Grace crime story is signing
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: off goodbye friend,