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Your Struggles Are Not Your Fault, But It's Your Responsibility to Change · Mental Health and the Mission of the Church

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: The hardest person you ever have to learn to love is yourself.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: I promise you.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: Now, you may have been abused, and you say that's gonna be pretty hard.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: Let's put that on the shelf for now.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: But if you start with yourself, because what happened with that person has damaged your ability to love yourself.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because probably deep down there, you've taken some degree of responsibility for what happened.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: And you have probably no responsibility for what happened.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: The key to the whole bottle is learning to receive and rest in the Father's love.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because how you learn to love yourself is by learning how to let him love you.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because when you learn how to let him love you, it's on, baby.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's on.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: In a sense, be careful with this, everything's downhill from there.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: I want to fit you with a pair of glasses that helps you see the person in the mirror differently.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then every person you encounter, I want you to see through Shades of Grace.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Continuing where they left off in episode one, in this segment, Chip focuses on how learning to let God's love in leads you to love yourself, why freedom and lasting change is so rare, and how most of your struggles are not even your fault.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: And now, here's our guy ministering to all our hearts.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's Pastor Chip Judd, and you're listening to Mental Health and the Mission of the Church podcast.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh for your quick take.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: It says he he said 90% of people spend 90% of their time not present.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: In other words, not even aware of ways that they could be more free.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Does that sound too extreme?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: 90%?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Or you're like, no, that's true.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, obviously there's no way to verify those numbers, but let's just say it's a high percentage of people that in in the moment they're in, wherever they're sitting, standing, walking, talking, there's more of their attention on issues behind them and in front of them than right there with them.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, why did this happen?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: Why did that person do?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: And what does it say about me?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then going forward, why would I expect this to work out?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: Why, why do I think this is not going to happen?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: And in other words, it just pulls you out of the moment you're in.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, it makes you make poorer decisions, actions, reactions in the moment you're in, which then creates sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's a vicious cycle.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: It really is.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's dive into shades of grace.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I was concerned about it.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: And let me very clarify: the shades are sunglasses.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: We're not talking about like uh shadowy shades.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: Imagine Jesus wearing a pair of sunglasses.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, in fact, that might be the cover, we'll see.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: But um, he just looked at people through different glasses.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's what we mean by shades of grace.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: Learning, I want to fit you with a pair of glasses that helps you see the person in the mirror differently, and then every person you encounter, I want you to see through shades of grace.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: Man.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: And if you can do that, your your life is gonna be changed.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Joey, I'll tell you this, man.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: The hardest person you're ever gonna have to learn to love is yourself.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: I promise you.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Now, you may have been abused, and you say that's gonna be pretty hard.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: Let's put that on the shelf for now.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: I agree, it's gonna be hard.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: But if you start with yourself, because what happened with that person has damaged your ability to love yourself, because probably deep down there you've taken some degree of responsibility for what happened, and you have no responsibility, probably, for what happened.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: It it affects us in ways that are immeasurable when you learn to love yourself.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: And really, all that means is to see yourself the way God sees you.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: Say about yourself what God says about you, and enjoy your own presence, company.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when you love somebody, you enjoy their company.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm alone in the room and I like everybody in there.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: And would you say that is the main that's the key or the main ingredient to love others is first figuring that out?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because you kind of referred to that earlier.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not loving yourself well, you're gonna have a heck of a time trying to love other people.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: Would you say that's that's yeah, but let's yes.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh can't remember how you put it, but the way you worded that makes me want to go here.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Remember his answer love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, then love your neighbors yourself.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: I I see it as a threefold love, love yourself, love others.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: And here's the deal: first John 4 19 says, We love him because he first loved us.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: The key to the whole ball game, the key to the whole ball game, and we'll get into it in the book, is learning to receive and rest in the Father's love.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because how you learn to love yourself is by learning how to let him love you.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because when you learn how to let him love you, you're you're it's on, baby.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's on.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: In a sense, be careful with this, everything's downhill from there.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: So many things are affected by that.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: So many different things.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, how common is it for Christians to find this peace and abundant life that Christ wants for us?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: You say something about this in the book, and we've talked about it before, but something to the effect of it's very common that people give their hearts to Christ, they find hope, and their lives stay jacked up.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: And they're chronically struggling with things that are very unhealthy for them.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is that the norm for Christians?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I would add to your their struggle, is it's 90% of the time fixable.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: 80% for sure.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Joey.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: Probably the quickest, simplest answer, and it's probably stark to some people, uh, is uh what we call the parable of the sower.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: Jesus said the sower went to sow, and he sowed on four soils.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh by the roadside, rocky soil, among the thorns, and good soil.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: And why do I bring that up?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because uh by the roadside to somebody who's half in, half out, they haven't even really decided to get in the game.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: And uh hopefully they will.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: I don't believe that's a permanent, I don't believe any of these are permanent states.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think most people read this parable, including myself, for most of the time, as there's only one category of folks who became born again.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: You you would disagree with that.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, no.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: So are are all four of these categories, would you say, generally speaking, these are this is body of Christ people that we're talking about?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: I would prefer to call them.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: I would prefer to call them stages in our development as followers of Christ.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: So these this is sheep.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: We're talking sheep here.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: Now that first one by the roadside, you know, I don't know.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: Half in, half out.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: The second one says rocky soil, and think about this for a minute.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: Which it says he sowed seed on rocky soil.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: Which was there first, the rocks or the seed?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: The rocks.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: So the thorns, he sowed seed among the thorns, which was there first?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: The seed or the thorns?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: The thorns.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: In a counselor's perspective, that's what you call pre-existing conditions.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: See what I'm saying?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, the condition of your heart determined how you received the seed.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Whoa.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: So Jesus knew about science?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: Jesus knew about science, psychology.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: He knew about the de devastating effects of trauma, early life trauma.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: He knew about the distract the devastating effects of distraction and misaligned goals and purposes.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't it crazy that he knows it more than the most advanced psychiatrists, right?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: There's stuff in scripture that is mind-blowing when you look at it from a certain angle.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I I guess by that scripture, you got four soils.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: I would say about 25% of believers have truth that has transitioned from head to heart.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: That is like I love how you put it earlier that there's no going back.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: Why?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's now, I love this phrase, it's embodied truth.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's now a part of you.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: Head knowledge is not embodied yet.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: Embodied is when you've experienced it, it tingled to your fingertips.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know that you know that you know that you know it's real.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I would say, and some of it's the church's fault because of the way we present truth, um, and we'll talk more about that at some point down the road.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm comfortable saying about 25%.
• 9:17
  unknown: Jeez.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm not discouraged by that.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not mad about it, but I am challenged and I am hopeful.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: It helps me get out of bed every day.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it gives me, it lends to me more meaning out of the narrow path versus the wide path.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think the wide path are necessarily a bunch of people on their way to hell.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe, maybe a form of hell on earth, but I think the narrow path, I think the wide path includes a lot of people who have found Jesus as their savior.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: I would put it this way: a lot of people that it could be everybody that's lost is on that that wide path, but it's also people who got in, got, you know, John chapter 3, Nicodemus comes to Jesus, and Jesus says a couple of really cool things.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: Unless you're born again, you can't see the kingdom.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: You can't even appreciate.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: Remember, Jesus said the kingdom's at hand, it's here, it's accessible, it's within your reach.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: But you can't see that unless you're born again.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then he said, you can't enter it unless you're born again.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: So here's what I mean.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: I believe the wide path can include even Christians who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: So they're born again, John chapter 3, and they've seen the kingdom maybe, and they've entered it, but they've only gone in a step or two.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: The narrow path is learning how to find the kingdom every day.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: What does it mean to live under the kingship of Jesus?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: What does it mean to allow him to do surgery in my soul and curb my appetite, build my character, change the way I react to different issues and situations in my life?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: Max Lucato has such a cool story in one of his books.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: I love his books.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: I call them soul massages.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: The kids' books, right?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: You don't read, you read his kids' books.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, no, no.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, even his adult books are not what I'd call deep, but they're but they're wonderful.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: They are wonderful.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: They're profound.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great word for it.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: But he's got one story, he says this you know, uh mom's in bed, middle of the night, and Johnny's sleeping in his room.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: He's 10 years old, we'll say, and mom hears a thud and she runs in there.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Johnny fell out of bed.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: And mom says, Well, Johnny, how'd you fall out of bed?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: And he says, Well, I guess I stayed too close to where I got in.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I think is wrong with most Christians.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: They've entered the kingdom, but they're staying too close to where they got in.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: They got their get out of jail free card, miss heaven, make hell, miss hell and make heaven, but they're not pressing on to grow and learn.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't mean that as criticism.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, I think part of it's the church's fault.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: There's an infinite supply of things we can learn and experience in our relationship with God.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I believe even when we even if we've lived our life pursuing God, even after we die, there's gonna be more and more and more.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: And um it better get it better keep getting better and better, or else it's gonna get boring.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and that that's what's so crazy to think about heaven is you know God's got a good plan of how eternity is gonna be awesome.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's why some of the stuff you hear taught about heaven is just forgive me, but it's just dumb.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: But uh why is true freedom so rare amongst our brothers and sisters in Christ?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll throw your words at you if you want to unpack any of these, but lack of hunger for understanding, low tolerance for discomfort, uh shortcut, shortcutting the spirit, and idolatry.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, a shortcut spirit.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: Meaning, meaning you get a headache, you just take aspirin instead of after your tenth headache, instead of saying, God, why do I keep getting the headache?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: But that's not my answer.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I believe prohibits us from finding and and walking out the answer.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: The uh that question, and and this is in the book, that question was what drove me when I wrote a course called Foundations of Christian Counseling years ago, and I currently have it recorded under the title uh Keys to Real Freedom and Lasting Change.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: I asked the question, why are real freedom and lasting change so rare?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean among Christians.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: I came up with two answers.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: And and and the more I weighed them, the more I played with them.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: I was I'm still good with it.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: John chapter 3, someone's born again, they can see the kingdom, they've entered the kingdom, they're washed in the blood, all that good stuff.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: And why is it so rare that they live in real freedom and lasting change?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I came up with two answers.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: One, uh, they don't understand and appreciate the ongoing process of salvation.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the chapters in the book is about uh spirit, soul, and body.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: And even if you're a dualist, because there's people that are dualists that don't believe there's a distinction between spirit and soul, it's it'll still work for you because uh, and and we might even do an episode on that later, because a friend of mine challenged me in that area who is a dualist, doesn't believe in separation between spirit and soul, even though Hebrews 12 says that it is separated.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: I get where they're coming from, and and I don't have any problem with that, but there's a cool way to look at it that still supports everything that chapter's about.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: But my point is this I was saved, I'm being saved, and I'm yet to be saved.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: What do I mean?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: I was saved in my spirit.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: John says that which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of the spirit is spirit.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: The part of me that was changed, recreated, reborn when I accepted Jesus as my Savior and Lord was my spirit.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Now here's the key.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: My soul, which is the repository for all my thoughts, experiences, principles, values, choices, where I do all the interacting with you is my soul didn't change.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: My body will be renewed, recreated at the coming of the Lord.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I was saved in my spirit, as saved as I'm ever gonna need to be.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm being saved, made whole in my soul, and one day I'll be saved in my body.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: So if you don't understand that, a couple things happen.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: You don't understand why a born-again Christian can still struggle with sin.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: Why?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, because their soul's not re renovated in that area.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you don't understand how that same person can stand before God in in full forgiveness and grace and welcomeness because in their spirit God sees them as purely as he sees Jesus.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a it's a a legal standing versus an experienced reality, you might say.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: And and so if you understand what happened, what's happening, and what is yet to be happening, it it just changes the way you look at yourself and your fellow believers.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: Because you look at yourself and say, you know, I I'm saved.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm being saved.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: What does that mean?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: God's renewing Romans 12, too.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: Be re be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm being renewed.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know what?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm still gonna act pretty poopy sometimes.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: So that's number one, not understanding and appreciating and and and cooperating with the ongoing process of salvation.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then the second is you continue to live after you're saved by the same rules you were living by before you were saved.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: And what I mean by that is family system stuff.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I learned that the way you get love is to earn it.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: I learned that, you know, you compare yourself to others.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: I learned all these things in my early life, and I'm continuing to live that way even after I've accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: So those two things cover a lot of ground.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: One way or another, that drives my thinking, those two simple thoughts.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: What does it take for me to be cooperatively involved in God's ongoing process of saving me?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: And what rules, principles, actions, reactions am I still participating in, consciously or subconsciously, that I learned earlier in life.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: And if you work on those two things with the help of God and others, you're gonna experience more freedom and change than you ever thought possible.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: It does.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll I'll just state the obvious that this is obviously a very meaty book, jam-packed.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: And my contention would be listen to this conversation freely, just let the words kind of sink into your heart, and then pretty much, you know, this mini book has got everything in there that we're talking about, you know.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's stuff worth looking at more than once, and really asking the Lord to let some of these truths sink in in a profound way.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so I want to add that we're kind of switching gears when it comes to how we look at others.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: And a statement that you said and have said many times, and it's been a life-changing thing for me.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I filter all my thoughts through this now, and it's that everyone is doing the best they can with what they have.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: And some points that you make in the book is you literally ask the question, is it your fault you struggle with depression?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Is it your fault that you struggle with anger?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Is it your fault that you even struggle with addiction?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd love for you to unpack because you said earlier that it's really not your fault.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd like to hear why.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then at some point I want to go in the direction of is anything our fault?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because life decisions, we have to take responsibility for things that we've done.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: So let's park that car for a second and let's get to why is the vast majority of our issues that we deal with on a day in and day out, and some people have self-loathing problems.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: They look at themselves in the mirror and they're like, Why did you drink again?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Are you kidding me?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it not their fault?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, in this moment, we we won't give a complicated answer because there's layers to it to really drive it home to people.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: But uh, you know, I love to I love to ask this simple question.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: Did you get to pick your family?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, do you remember being a disembodied spirit, you know, floating around in heaven or somewhere, and an angel came to you and said, you know, Joey, would you would you go down and be um what's their names?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Your parents.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: Barbara and Virgil.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: Barbara and Virgil.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Rest in peace.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Virgil, that's the name there.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Barbara and Virgil.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Can you imagine a little kid being named Virgil?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds like an old person's name.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but back then I think it was, you know, how old was he when he passed?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh he was 78.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: So 78 years ago, you know, Virgil.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of I I get you.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's kind of an old person's name.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, my real name is kind of that way.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 77.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: 73.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you didn't get to choose your family.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: So what does that mean?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: That means uh uh That's a big piece, man.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, dude, a sperm and an egg came together.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: One sperm, one egg, out of thousands of sperm, and you know, all the different eggs that are inside your mom.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: And those both carried these DNA helixes and blah, blah, blah.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: We all know this stuff.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that combination determined, determined things about you that there's no virtually nothing you can do about.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: You can't change your height, can't change your eye color.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can use me for example, my predisposition to depression and anxiety.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't choose that.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's no doubt about it.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: There's family history.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: Joey's dad dealt with intense, severe anxiety and the other.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: We think his dad did too.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: They just didn't look at it as well.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: Probably at least two or three generations.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: Now, when you see that pattern, you can be pretty sure I'm not.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: Doctor, so it's it's not my job to diagnose that, but you can be pretty sure there's a genetic component to it.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: And depression and anxiety both have have a tendency to have that component to it.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Not in every case, but in many of them.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: So you got those kind of genetics that affect your physical qualities, your like as you as you referred to your brain and its capacity to do different things.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um there's several mental health disorders, mild or severe.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the thing we we we tend to forget that there's mild forms of every mental health disorder that we just consider annoying.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: But it's still on that continuum that could have been inherited.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: Also, along with n not not getting to choose your family, genetically it affects you.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: But you also didn't get to choose the home context.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Is it is it warm, is it is it cold, is it angry, is it happy, is it peaceful, is it chaotic?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: So we just moved to nurture.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: Nature nurture?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: Nature nurture.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, there's people that fall on both sides, some that it's pretty popular now in the medical circles to s to go pretty far nature.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: But I I'm pretty convinced it's I don't know if it's even, I don't know, but uh but it they're both pretty powerful.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then the third is the one you made reference to, and that is your life choices.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: So you've got nature and nurture, you've got what I call uh multigenerational predisposition, and what I call early life imprints, which would be nature and nurture, and then you've got choices.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like I believe you can inherit a tendency toward something, but it it doesn't activate unless you say yes to it.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and as you're talking, the the that third component, personal choices, is still hinged on the first two.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Partly, at least.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, there's a subtlety to it.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's easier to talk when you're talking speaking in a crowd or whatever, to talk about the big broadstroke stuff.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: But there's subtleties to it, like what you just said.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like the subtlety of, well, you know, I I I chose a profession that was uh non-threatening and I knew I could do easily.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then you say, oh, well, you know, that's not genetics, that's your choices.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but what if in childhood I was never encouraged to take risks?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: What I what if I was never encouraged to see myself as competent and capable?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: So, in a sense, yes, it even affects the choices you make later in life.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: I would say that's a big part of my story, that that it wasn't as much genetically that I was affected.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: Of course I was, but mine was more uh nurture that affected my confidence and my willingness to take risks and take on responsibility.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening to Mental Health and the Mission of the Church.
• 25:34
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• 25:38
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• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: You can also follow Chip on Instagram at Chipjud and find free resources for your spiritual and mental health journey at chipjud.com.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks again for listening, and we'll see you next time on Mental Health and the Mission of the Church.