Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Transcripts From The Hearing Dealing With Tyler Robinson’s Courtroom Appearance (Part 7) (7/31/26)

Transcript

Transcripts From The Hearing Dealing With Tyler Robinson’s Courtroom Appearance (Part 7) (7/31/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome back to the program. In
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: this episode, we're going to get back to the Tyler
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Robinson hearing about his court appearance the court, all right,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: and is there anything further from either side that you
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: wish me to consider? And before I go there, I
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: also want to clarify that my understanding is I'm not
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: ruling about the media. I'm not ruling about which hearings
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: he should or should not be able to attend. My
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: understanding is that's going to be further briefed, and so
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: I want to be clear that even though it is
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: there is an attachment, that that's not the expectation of
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: my ruling on Monday. I'm ruling on the issue of
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: striking the motion, which is obviously the easier of the motions,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: and in regards to how he is dressed and whether
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: he is restrained is my focus, even though I've heard
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: from both sides about other issues. I want that to
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: be more fully briefed, even though it does touch upon that,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: and it sounds like we may have the time if
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: we continue the thirtieth hearing so that the issue is
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: not immediately upon us. But with that, I want to
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: open it up to either side. Any other information or
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: argument you want me to consider as it relates to
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: those three issues, Mister Ballard, Well, I think your honor
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: raises a good point in that if we're going to
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: have further briefings on an issue that talks about potential
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: limitations on what the media can cover, and if the
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: ruling is going to bear directly on the ruling on
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: the motion today, then I think maybe, and we're not
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: going to have that hearing on the thirtieth, then maybe
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: the Court delays its ruling on this motion until it
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: has the fully brief motion about what the media can do.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Mister Novak, if I may, that reminds me that I
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: did forget something, but my co counsel wouldn't know because
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: I didn't share it. The suggestion that this court can
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: order the entire world not to say anything about mister
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Robinson is or what he's wearing in court is both
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: in practical I think it's a prior restraint and the
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: burden would fall on us to enforce it. I mean,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: that's what's asked with a question mark at the end.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: It's completely unenforceable. The idea of prohibiting cameras and video
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: in the courtroom is very easy for this court to enforce.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: That's easy what people can say outside the courtroom, even
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: if it's constitutional. I understand that it's very common for
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: courts to order the media not to comment upon what jurors,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: what they look like, information they provide in Vordeer, like
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: all kinds of limitations. But to somebody to somehow believe
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: that this court can effectively prohibit everybody, every blogger in
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: the world from commenting on what mister Robinson is wearing
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: in court is totally unenforceable. And I actually don't think
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: anybody is going to enforce it other than the defense,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: and that would be completely impractical. I mean, our effort
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: to keep track of who is saying what about our
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: client is already, you know, an insane project. And I
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: also don't think that if this Court were to eliminate
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: cameras and video in the courtroom, which I know we
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: haven't fully briefed at all, doesn't go to the shackling issue,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: because the shackling issue is about other constitutional rights than
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: just the first concern, which is the visual appearance of
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: somebody in shackles suggests that they're guilty of something. Because
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: the other two interests are the decorum in the courtroom,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: the sanctity of the courtroom, and the sixth Amendment right
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: to be free from shackles in order to participate with
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: your counsel. So I don't think that banning video depictions
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: from the courtroom addresses the shackling issues at all. The
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: court all right, mister Ballard, Mister Ballard, if I could
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: just add your honor, your honor has a difficult decision
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: to make. Really, what it comes down to is a
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: weighing right, a balancing of the defendant's right to a
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: presumption of innocence and a fair trial in security and
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: at trial. There is no question that all right to
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: a fair trial and to the presumption of innocence when
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: you're in front of the jury, there is no question
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: that the balance tips in favor of the defendant's requesting.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: At pre trial hearings, calculus is completely different. And even
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: with the media, and even if this court is uncomfortable
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: with an order saying don't talk about it, don't write,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: don't state the way the defendant appeared in court, I
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: think a description of the way the defendant appeared has
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: far less prejudicial potential prejudicial impact than a photo, which
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: I think the court could restrict a photo or a video.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Just two other issues, Your honor, I'd like to briefly mention.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: Defendant repeatedly made the point that the state hasn't provided
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: any individualized information about the defendant. The state hasn't done
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: that at this point because there's no requirement for the
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: state to do so. Until this court finds that it's
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: going to plow completely new ground and extend the rights
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: that defendant's asking for beyond the jury process, then there's
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: no need for the state to provide that information. And
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: as far as the right to present, a defendant is
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: guaranteed the right to be present. This is from State
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: versus mastis a Utah Supreme Court opinion that cited in
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: both of all of the briefing from both sides. A
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: defendant's guaranteed the right to be present at any stage
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: of a criminal proceeding that is critical to its outcome
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: if his presence could contribute to the fairness of the procedure.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: And it's the state's position that defendants certainly would be
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: entitled to be present in the courtroom with his counsel
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: during those kinds of proceedings. But in others, he does
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: not need to be in the courtroom. He can still
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: be present, but he can't be present virtually where he
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: can communicate in real time and confidentially if necessary. And
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: just one final point, your honor, it sounded to me
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: like defense counsel was saying that if he were in
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: civilian clothing redacted. I'm curious if that's accurate, but that
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: might be one way to further balance interest the court.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Thank you, And just to clarify, I don't mean to
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: repeat myself because we're coming to an end. I'm not
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: making a ruling on what hearings he can or cannot
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: be on that, I'm assuming both sides is requesting more
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: briefing on simply limiting it to the motion to strike,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: the filing of the state, the clothing issue, and the restraints.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: I just don't want there to be I don't want
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: there to be any miscommunication or expectation. Are we all
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: on the same page, mister Novak. We're asking leave of
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: the court to more fully address what we thought which
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: we addressed very very quickly, which we thought was emotion
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: under seventeen dot five to limit mister Robinson's appearances. We
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: want to address that more fully. So for example, in
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: the state's paper they address the eleven factors that a
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: court should consider under seventeen dot five. I didn't want
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: to take that up today given the timing, but yeah,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: we want to address that more fully and we will,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: and we can work it out with the state, whether
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: we file simultaneous briefs or apply and sir reply, or
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: whatever we call it. They're saying they didn't file emotion.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: We thought they filed emotion, so we filed an opposition
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: to nothing. We'll get the court points and authorities from
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: both sides. The court, thank you. I just want to
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: clarify that, all right, it sounds like with the expectation
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: and does Monday one o'clock on, webe's work for all parties,
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Miss Nestor, Yes, Sir, the court, And because we are
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: in a skill proceeding, I want to address an issue
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: that goes to the very heart of what we're dealing with.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: It seems to me that we're addressing the issue of
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: mister Robinson's dress and restraints. And because that ruling will
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: be public and will be streamed, it seems to protect
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: the interest of mister Robinson his constitutional rights. First of all,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: he should be able to participate, but it seems counterproductive
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: if his camera was on, because it would defeat the
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: whole purpose of why we're here. How do all parties feel.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that's what should happen. I'm saying I
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: want your input. So we're all in agreement. Come Monday
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: at one o'clock, mister Novak, we're agreeing to a WebEx
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: hearing as the Court proposed, which would mean that for
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: this for the Court to issue its ruling, right, the
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Court's not entertaining more argument. The Court is issuing a
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: public ruling on documents that were mostly publicly filed, and
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: then there was an appropriately sealed argument. We are okay
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: for purposes of receiving the court's ruling with mister Robinson
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: appearing from the jail audio only for the same reason
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: we did last time, and for the reason that the
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: court just dated the court all right, And I just
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: wanted to check because I don't want us to get
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: out there and someone has an issue, because this kind
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: of goes to the heart of what we're dealing with today.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Mister Novak, Yeah, the Court, thank you. I think we're
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: all on the same page. Mister Ballard. I think it's
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: the perfect procedure. You're honor the court, all right, So
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: we have that Monday at one o'clock via WebEx in
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: regard to are we in agreement to strike the thirtieth
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: the hearing on the thirtieth, mister Novak, Yeah, And our suggestion,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: if we may, is that the Court give us a
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: date that's convenient to the court in early January. I
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: think we can work out amongst ourselves as schedule for
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: sort of briefing all of that stuff, with the understanding
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: that we will file our motion before Thanksgiving and the
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: parties have committed to working through the responsive pleadings in December.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: We just would like the Court to tell us, while
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: we're all here with our calendars, what works in January.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: The Court, all right, let's pull up a date. But
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: while we're going there, one of the purposes of the
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: thirtieth hearing is I wanted to get an update on
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: the discovery because that's going to guide where we go.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: And I just wanted to check the pulse of both
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: sides to see where we're at, to see are we
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: on track. And the state is indicated they wish to
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: be setting a preliminary hearing. So while we have the time,
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: I'm fine with that. I think it's appropriate. I want
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: that time to be well used to ensure that we
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: don't come back on the thirtieth and say, oh, your honor,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: there was this issue with discovery. Now we're back another
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: sixty ninety days, and so that was one of the
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: purposes of the thirtieth hearing. I want us to have
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: an ability to address that in a timely basis, for
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: mister Robinson's speedy rights and for alleged victim rights of disposition,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: as well as in the interest of justice. And so
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: I know it's late, but I want to touch on
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: that to see where we're at, if we have any
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: other issues that we can quickly address, or if we
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: just need another hearing. And so I wanted to keep
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: us on track for everyone's benefit. Mister Grunnader, Chad Grunnader,
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: for the State, your honor, I can provide an update
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: for the court and defense counsel in the State. We
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: met before this hearing and talked about this. First of all,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: our offices are working together, our paralegals are in constant
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: communication about sending and receiving discovery. We have to date
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: as of this afternoon, received in the range of about
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: four thousand eighty five files from law enforcement. We received
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: about seventeen hundred of those within the last probably twelve hours.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: There's a process that our office is going through and
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: making the necessary redactions per statute, per the law, and
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: then we're moving that to the defense as quickly as possible.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: We've provided fourteen hundred and forty two files to the
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: defense so far, so it's about thirty five percent of
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: what we have in hand right now. Every week, at
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: least once a week, we provide a batch of information
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: to the defense. There's been a couple of hiccups because
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: of the size of the files and the system we're
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: using that we're working through. I think we're getting to
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: the bottom of that, and we'll continue to work through
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: that when issues arise. We're also identifying the dates when
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: the information is received and trying to push that out
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: chronologically to the defense as quickly as possible as well.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: This case involves a lot of surveillance camera from UVU,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: and we're starting with September tenth being the most probative,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: most important day, and then working backward from that. So
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: we're trying to prioritize our efforts as well. So I
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: think we're making progress there, and I think we're going
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: to iron out a few kinks and the progress will
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: be expedited as we move forward. All right, folks, we're
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: going to wrap up right here, and in the next episode,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: we're going to pick up where we left off. All
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: the information that goes with this episode can be found
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: in the description box.