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Transcript

Good on Paper Isn’t Good Enough · The Science of Leading

• 0:00
  Hey everyone-welcome back to The Science of Leading.
• 0:02
  I'm Claire Monroe, and as always,
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  I'm here with Edwin Carrington.
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  So...
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  I've been thinking about something we kinda touched on a few episodes
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  ago-how interviews can feel, I dunno,
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  just super generic.
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  Like, you ask someone about their background,
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  maybe their skills, and you get these...
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  polished answers.
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  Totally rehearsed.
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  But is that actually useful?
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  I mean-is it even telling us what we really need to know?
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  That's a great
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  question, Claire.
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  And you're not wrong-most interviews stick to what's on someone's CV.
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  You
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  get the what they've done part,
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  sure.
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  But not the how they'll actually show up when things get tough-or how
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  well they'll fit into your team's rhythm.
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  I've seen it again and again:
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  someone looks great on paper...
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  but a few months in, things start to unravel.
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  And more often than not,
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  it's not about their skills.
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  It's about how they think,
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  how they behave-and whether their values actually sync with yours.
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  Yeah-and
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  the cost of getting that wrong?
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  Ugh, it's huge.
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  I think I read-maybe it was SHRM?-that hiring someone
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  who's a bad cultural fit can cost,
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  like, 60% of their salary.
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  And that's not even counting the morale hit
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  or how it slows everyone else down.
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  It's...
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  kinda wild.
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  That's exactly right.
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  And I'll tell you, early in my career,
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  I made that mistake myself.
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  I remember hiring a brilliant analyst-top of her class,
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  technically sharp.
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  But within weeks, it was clear she struggled with our team's fast-paced,
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  collaborative style.
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  She preferred to work alone, needed a lot of structure,
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  and, well, our environment was anything but structured.
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  The tension started to build, and eventually,
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  she left.
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  The team was frustrated, she was unhappy,
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  and we lost months of momentum.
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  It taught me that technical skills are just the starting point.
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  If you don't dig deeper, you're flying blind.
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  Yeah-and when you get that
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  wrong?
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  Oof.
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  It's expensive.
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  I think I read somewhere-maybe SHRM?-that hiring someone
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  who's a bad cultural fit can cost,
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  like, 60% of their salary.
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  And that's not even counting the morale hit or how it slows everyone
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  else down.
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  It's...
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  kinda wild.
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  That's spot on.
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  And I've been there-early in my career,
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  I hired this analyst who looked perfect on paper.
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  Top of her class, brilliant with the numbers...But she needed a ton of
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  structure, preferred working solo-and our team?
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  Total opposite.
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  Fast, collaborative, messy.
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  Tension built fast.
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  She left, the team was frustrated,
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  and we lost real momentum.
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  That whole situation taught me something: technical
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  skills?
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  Just the starting line.
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  If you don't dig deeper,
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  you're basically flying blind.
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  Totally.
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  And I think a lot of leaders still-like-underestimate how much that
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  kind
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  of mismatch affects the whole group.
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  It's never just one person-it's the
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  entire team dynamic that gets shaken.
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  Exactly.
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  A bad fit doesn't just cost
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  money-it chips away at trust, burns energy...
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  and sometimes even drives your best people away.
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  That's why,
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  like we've said before, you can't just rely on gut instinct or a checklist.
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  You've
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  gotta go deeper.
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  Ask: How do they handle setbacks?
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  What drives them?
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  Do their values line up with ours?
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  Okay-so...
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  let's talk about that.
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  Like, how do you actually do it?
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  We've talked a
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  lot about behavioral questions on this show,
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  but honestly?
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  I still feel like there's a gap between knowing you should ask them...
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  and knowing which ones actually work.
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  What are the kinds of questions
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  that really get to the heart of who someone is?
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  Great place to start.
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  The
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  best behavioral questions ask for real,
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  specific examples-like:"What's the hardest decision you've had to make
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  in the past six months?"Or: "Tell me about a time you missed a goal.
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  What did you take away from it?"These aren't just about what happened-they
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  show how someone thinks under pressure...
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  whether they reflect, whether they own their mistakes.
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  You're looking
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  for accountability.
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  Self-awareness.
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  And alignment with the values your team actually lives.
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  Oof-yes.
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  There's
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  also that question: "What role do you naturally take on in a team?" I
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  love that one.'Cause it's not about a right answer-it's about alignment.
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  Like,
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  if your team's super collaborative,
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  and someone's wired to work solo...They might be brilliant,
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  but still struggle.
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  Exactly.
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  And this is where the conversation's evolving.
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  We're
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  moving from hiring for "culture fit" to hiring for "culture add."It's
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  not about finding someone who's just like everyone else-it's about finding
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  people who bring something new to the table.
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  Fresh perspectives.
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  Different thinking styles.
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  That's where innovation starts.
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  Stick to sameness-and you risk groupthink
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  and blind spots.
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  That totally tracks.
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  I'm thinking back to the first time
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  I was on a hiring panel...I was so focused on whether someone would "fit
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  in," you know?
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  Looking back, I probably missed out on people who could've
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  actually helped us grow.
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  If I'd had questions like,
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  "How do you prioritize when everything's urgent?" or "Tell me about a
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  time you went above and beyond,"I think I would've seen the real person-not
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  just the résumé.Okay, so-we've talked about the questions.
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  But what about
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  the tools?
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  I know a lot of companies are using assessments now-like,
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  the OAD Behavioral Assessment.
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  How does that actually work in practice?
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  Is
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  it really that much better than just...
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  trusting your gut?
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  That's a fair question.
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  Behavioral science has come
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  a long way-and tools like OAD are designed to bring clarity where gut
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  instinct alone falls short.
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  Instead of just guessing,
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  you get actual data.
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  Things like: how someone handles ambiguity,
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  whether they prefer autonomy or structure,
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  how they respond to feedback...It's not about replacing interviews-it's
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  about adding depth.
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  For example,
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  OAD uses psychometrics to map a candidate's traits to your real-world
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  work environment.
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  Are they energized by independence?
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  Do they need consistency?
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  That kind of clarity helps you hire with confidence.
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  So,
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  it's like...
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  you're looking for alignment between what someone says in the interview-and
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  how they're actually wired?
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  And if that doesn't line up...
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  that's kind of a red flag?
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  Exactly.
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  You want that consistency-between their
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  answers, their energy, and what your team actually needs.
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  And tools like
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  OAD help you spot that.
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  One company I worked with?
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  They realized they'd been hiring for "fit" for years...
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  and ended up with a team that all thought the same way.
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  Once they started
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  using behavioral assessments, they brought in people with totally different
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  strengths.
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  Some challenged the status quo,
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  others brought fresh energy...
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  and suddenly, the team was more innovative,
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  more collaborative-and way more resilient.
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  That's so cool.
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  And it really
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  ties back to what we said earlier-about "culture add" over "culture fit."Like...
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  bringing in people who stretch your team in a good way instead of just
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  keeping things comfortable.
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  So yeah-don't just go with your gut.
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  Use the
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  science, ask better questions, and look for that deeper alignment.
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  Well
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  said, Claire.
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  You can teach skills.
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  But values alignment?
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  Behavioral fit?
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  That's what builds teams that last.
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  And with the right
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  tools, you can make those calls with a lot more clarity.
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  Alright-that's
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  a wrap for today's episode.
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  If you wanna see how tools like OAD work in
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  action, head over to OAD.
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  ai and try it for free today.
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  Seriously-it's eye-opening.
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  Thanks,
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  Claire.
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  Always a pleasure.
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  And thanks to everyone listening-keep asking
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  the right questions.
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  We'll see you next time on The Science of Leading.
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  Bye!