Latest / The Trauma Therapist / Episode 778: The Inspiring Memoir of an Incredible Marine with Dedoceo Habi

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Episode 778: The Inspiring Memoir of an Incredible Marine with Dedoceo Habi · The Trauma Therapist

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All right, welcome back to the Trauma Therapist Podcast. My name is Gamiferson.
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My mission is to help trauma therapist be their incredible selves, to be
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human, to be real, not just a clinician. I'm a big believer
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in who we are is more important than what we know, and this requires
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cultivating authenticity, genuineness, and vulnerability, and that requires intention. Can learn
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more about my courses and workshops by going to the Trauma Therapist project dot com.
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That's the Trauma Therapist Project dot com. Let's get started, all right,
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here we go. So five four, three, two and one,
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our folks, welcome back to the podcast. I am thrilled to have with
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my guest today, the Docio Hobby, the Dosho welcome. Thank you very
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much. As an honor to be on board and to share and learn,
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I appreciate that. So. De Doco is a disabled veteran. He's on
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the side of taking charge of one's life and getting better. His book is
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titled Memoirs in the Moment, and he wants to give voice to those who
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are living productively with post traumatic stress disorder to help change the paradigm of thinking
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around PTSD. Memoirs in the Moment is an honest portrayal of the intersection between
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service to others and the impact of PTSD in the life of one service member
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who served in Berut. The book represents an honest look at the motivations,
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thoughts, and perspectives that challenge mister Hobby daily and some of the ways he
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has learned to cope. All right to docio. Welcome once again, Before
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we could go in here, share with our listeners where you're from originally and
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where you are currently. Sure again, thank you. So I'm from Savannah,
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Georgia. I'm a country boy at heart. We lived up and down
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the East Coast throughout my life and development as a child. I ended up
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with today, which is in the Los Angeles area. Okay, okay,
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so we're to begin here. Well, let me put that to you.
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How did all this start for you? First of all, talk a little
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bit about your entry into the service. Sure, So, I graduated high
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school at the age of sixteen in Savannah, Georgia, and then I went
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to college. By the time I was in set, i was seventeen.
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But the environment that I was in just did not resonate with who I was
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at my core. At about the same time, one of my classmates had
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just got back from Marine Corps boot camp, and when I saw the change
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in him, I knew the second I saw him that's the route I wanted
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to take. So by the time, by the end of that year,
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actually I had enlisted and was making plans to get to Paris Island to begin
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my journey as a marine. So I was motivated by the evolution I saw
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in one of my classmates, one of my close friends and classmates. What
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was it specifically that you saw. I saw that he possessed himself in a
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way that I thought was admirable. He was self aware, he was clear
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what his next step in life was, and he just resonated a certain confidence
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that I did not have. Sounds good to me. I think we all
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could use some of that. So what happens? Yeah, So going to
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the Marine Corps, I was. I I just turned eighteen when I went,
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and I was seventeen when I signed up, and I ended up in
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Jacksonville, North Carolina. By the time I was nineteen years old, I
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found myself on a Mediterranean cruise where we spent our time. This was nineteen
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eighty three, and we ended up spending our time off the coast of Baby
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Lebanon. We were there as a part of a multinational peacekeeping force. A
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lot of different nations were involved in trying to create enough space so that the
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Lebanese people could create us stability, a stable government, and govern themselves.
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But those that were against it decided that that was not something they wanted to
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happen. So in the morning of twenty three October nineteen eighty three, a
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terrorists came in and blew up the barracks, killing two hundred and forty one
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service members. I happened to be on an Ewogma at the time, where
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we processed a lot of the wounded and some that didn't make it. Then
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they offered, they asked for volunteers to go into retrieve any other personal effects
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or anything else that we might encounter there. I volunteered to go in and
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then if I may so, I just want to get clear on where so
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the barracks blew up or was blown up, and where were you at the
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time at the time it exploded. I was on the Ewo GiMA. We
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were off the coast, about two three miles off the coast, and the
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moment it happened and shortly the after, we pulled up anchor and came in
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closer to the shoreline so that we could uh bring the wounded and deceased in
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a lot more quickly, okay. And then you also volunteered to go back,
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right, volunteered to go in to recover any personal effects or any anything
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else we found. And so I went in, and that's when I got
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fired upon sniper fire coming our way, that kind of thing. And then
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shortly thereafter there was there was some exposures as well that went on. Uh,
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shortly thereafter we got the call to return back to base and then process
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that's back on board. Wow, so they were waiting for people to go
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back in and help. Oh my god. Okay, So what happens next?
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Well, as as old of that, that's when my change occurred.
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I was not aware of it, of course to me, I was.
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I know, I was consumed by a certain anger. What I saw it
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was surreal. It was one could never imagine that they would be exposed to
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such things. I'll put it to you that way. The things you hear,
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the smells and so on and so forth, they haunt you. So
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afterwards, you know, we went back to work. As we did during
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those days. We never talked about anything but as we did back in those
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days, and it was like nothing ever happened, but the change had occurred
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to me, and as a result, I was a different person. I
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had a very short wick, if you will. I'm always angry, always
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wanted to attack, always, and also that was compounded by a feeling of
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hopelessness that was consuming me. How nineteen years old and so after, as
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you said, there was no quote unquote processing of this for you on how
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this may have impacted the people who went back exactly, Oh man, no
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processing. And so ultimately I got ot the Marine Corps. I really I
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had developed a really bad attitude around the Marine Corps because of the fact that
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we felt so helpless, and we saw the results of this sense of helplessness
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in real time, we were exposed to in real time. So I got
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out and for the next thirty thirty years or so, I lived with PTSD
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undiagnosed, and because of that, my life was a series of terrible tragedies
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that happened. I was homeless three times, married multiple times, so any
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understanding of what was going on, like oh my god, something's going went
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on or did you, But did you sense a change in yourself? I
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was not aware of the change. In fact, when I got back home
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from Beirut, my youngest brother, who could clearly see the change, told
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me I had gone crazy. He told me something that was wrong and that
8:16
I need to talk to someone. And my response was, there's nothing wrong
8:18
with me. Everyone else has a problem and that's something they got to deal
8:22
with. I got to worry about it and I kept moving. So I
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was in denial for many many years. As a result, of course,
8:31
again that my life was a series of ups and downs, a lot of
8:33
tragedies along the way, a lot of ruined relationships. I wished away everyone
8:37
who I valued. It was a really bad situation. I reached a really
8:43
low point, and finally my wife she said to me, in the in
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the only way that only she could, that I need to go and talk
8:56
to someone. I happen to han't night me is night tremors and such all
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these years and no one had ever told me. She told me. Uh,
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And it really surprised me that she would be that honest with me about
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it. Uh. And so out of you know, okay, I'll go
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do it kind of thing. I'm still in denial about my situation, so
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I go, I'll go talk to someone. So I went to a local
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VET center in Philadelphia, and within the span of one meeting, it was
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clear that there was something really tragic going on with me. They had me
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going in twice a week from that moment until I started gaining some control over
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things. They slowly started educating me around what was actually happening, why it
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was happening. I had to learn the different tools to cope with it over
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and over time, and didn't happen overnight, of course. What was your
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what was your reaction? How did you take it when this therapist said to
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you, this might be PTSD? From what happened, how did that go
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down? Well, initially it was like, okay, even if it is
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PTSD, I'll just get this treatment and then I'll be fine. I'll be
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good. Boy. Boy was I wrong with that? So what actually happened
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was after maybe i'd say about a month or two, while we were in
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conference, I shared with her. I said, well, I'll be glad
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when we finished this therapy so that I can finally move on with my life.
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And then she said, well, I just want to be clear with
10:43
you about something. She said, You're going to have to deal with this
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dourescr life. That's what PTSD is. It's something that you have to asters
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your life. And I cried. I cried because I had been living with
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such misery, this darkness that just consumed my soul, constant feeling of anger,
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all these different and I wasn't aware that I could I could learn a
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different way. So it just really it was one of the lower points in
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my recovery, if you will, because it forced me to really look at
11:18
myself in the mirror and ask if I had the mustard, if you will,
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to keep this fight going and do my due diligence to create a plan
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to manage and mitigate some of the impact of PTSD in my life. Wow.
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First of all, I just want to pause here, and you know,
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thank you for coming on here and sharing this story. I mean,
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I think it takes a lot of guts to do that. And it's just
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freaking crazy that you know, here in America, this is too going on
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the treatment of veterans from what you're seeing about that particular point with therapists,
12:09
when when she let you know that this was going to be a long journey
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for you. It sounded like she was giving you some straight news. Was
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she was? There also some hope in that in terms of well there's a
12:26
way to move forward. Well, one of the things that you know,
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once she saw my reaction, she was real, very understanding, very compassionate
12:35
towards me, and very supportive. And one thing she did say is that
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while it may seem like this is something that is overwhelming that you just can't
12:45
overcome it, just know that if you do the work, if you do
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the work, things will get better. And I held on to that.
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If I do the work, I had to give it a shot because the
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alternative was that getting more misery, more living in this this dark place which
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had an outcome that that was not favorable to me. Uh, And so
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I did the work. Were you if I may ask, were you using
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substances? I wasn't. I wasn't using it. Well, that's not true.
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I drank, drank. I guess I drank a little bit more than
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I could admit. Sometimes for me it was more about trying. Like,
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for instance, there was a time when I lived in Oakland that my thing
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was to walk the streets with my gun because I was looking for a way
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out. A way out meaning you get into a fight with a gunfight with
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someone and they kill you, you kill them. Kind I was at that
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point my life. I was. It was just there was nothing, no
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light in me that I could see. Wow. Wow. But again I
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got past that, and then in fact, right after that time is when
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right after that time is when I met my wife and later moved to Philadelphia,
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which is where I started getting access to care. Okay, so go
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ahead. I was just gonna say, your wife sounds like a pretty incredible
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person. I got very lucky. What was her response? How did she
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react when she learned that you were going through this, not that you were
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even going through this process, but the way you were. You talked about
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her mentioning your night terrors. How did she respond to all this? You
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know, I don't really know. I guess I just got lucky because you
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know, again, of all the women I have been with in my life,
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she's the first and only one to really say this is what was happening
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to me. So her position was I care about you, this is something
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that's happening that's beyond the school of what I can do for you. But
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the very least I could do is let you know that I'm here for you.
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Whatever it takes, this is what you need to do, but you
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need to go talk to someone. So she was smart enough to know that
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that was something that that was an area that she had no exposure to,
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no expertise in, and it was beyond the scope of what she could do
15:22
in the relationship, and that she could only hope that I would take her
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advice and go talk to someone. When that therapist was upfront with you and
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told you that you had to, you might be dealing with this, you
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know, for the rest of your life. What happened after that, well,
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I was you know, it was a long walk home for one thing,
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trying to come to terms with it, and and quite frankly, it's
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taken years for me to come to terms with even the fact that I have
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PTSD. There's still that part of me that wants to deny it. But
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it was a long process and I just I just decided that the best thing
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I could do is try put forth the effort to at least go through the
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to to talk about what I was experienced, to try and figure out how
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I can navigate this thing so that they won't have power over me, but
16:18
that I can have power over it. And so it just took a lot
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of time, a lot of talking, a lot of self reflecting, reflecting,
16:30
and a lot of honesty, you know, And ultimately it got down
16:33
to slowly and ultimately it got down to the fact that I had to learn
16:40
to focus on making decisions that reinforce my values. Because of that, I
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was able to step aside from the haunting memories or the haunting thoughts that come
16:53
into my head, and then I can say, Hmm, if I do
16:59
this, will it bring me closer to my value or will it push me
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further away from the things I value? And so because of little tricks and
17:07
tools like that I've learned through the years, I've been able to get slowly
17:11
gain control over how PTSD impacts my life. Wow. I love that.
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I mean, I think that's pretty profound and something I think we all should
17:22
be doing as really being having that type of awareness about whether our options are
17:30
moving us closer or further away from our values. You know, you said,
17:34
uh previously that it took you a while to even admit that you had
17:40
PTSD, and you know many times you wanted to deny it. And this
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might seem, you know, like an obvious question, but for you,
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what was behind the denying it? Why? Why were you kind of lured
17:52
to deny it? I would say maybe being macho, maybe being a marine,
18:00
maybe being a man. You know, we cannot disclose any vulnerabilities.
18:07
We got to always be Johnny on the spot and grind through it all these
18:14
different ideals we have around what it means to be a man or what it
18:18
means to have served in the military. I was contending with that, and
18:22
ultimately the other thing was is who likes to think about themselves as being weak?
18:29
Right? And to me that was probably the biggest the biggest challenge.
18:34
I had to realize that being able to speak your truth is not being and
18:40
being vulnerable is not a weakness. It's a strength. And I had to
18:45
learn that. I have to relearn it over and over again until I got
18:47
to a place where Okay, I can talk about this thing and be honest
18:51
with people about it and it's not a weakness that I'm doing it. It's
18:55
a strength that I'm doing it. Were there any did you have any fellow
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marine who were experiencing similar things? You know, what's interesting is I have
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three friends who I was real close with back in those back in eighty three,
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we were all in Bayroud at the same time, and I was the
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only one who volunteered to go, and I was all who got fired upon
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of our group. And after beauthe I separated from them. We just went
19:22
our separate way, or I went my separate way from them. They stayed
19:26
in contact. Thirty five years later we reconnected. So we reconnected a couple
19:32
of years ago in New York City, and they two have the same residual
19:38
type of effects from that experience. Each of them is dealing with some kind
19:45
of PTSD or emotional issue in their lives as a result of their exposure to
19:51
what happened to us. And then I have another friend who was actually in
19:55
the building, the only person out of his room who survived. He we
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talk about it a lot, and one of the things he says to me
20:03
over and over again is he he wished he was on my side, and
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he wished that I could have been on his side, So that I don't
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because he doesn't. He has a different type of experience. He he's really
20:21
excitable about things. So it affects us all in the subtle differences between the
20:26
level of impact it has in each of our lives, but each of us
20:32
has the same kind of thing happening. I don't remind everyone that I'm speaking
20:36
with the Hobby. His book is called Memoirs in the Moment. All right,
20:42
let's just pause here for a second to thank our sponsors. All Right,
20:48
we are back. You talked about this therapist with the other therapists that
20:57
they've worked with. Okay, yes, I mean, there's obviously a lot
21:02
to talk about here, but I am curious about what, really what are
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some of the things that helped you move through this process and deal with this'
21:15
That's a really good question. I think the biggest thing was that they I
21:19
was able to find a therapeutic environment that I felt safe in. One of
21:26
the benefits that I realized over and over again through the VA is that I
21:33
actually had there's a certain bond that happens with service members that's unlike a bond
21:38
we may have with like our sibling, our brother, who a sister who
21:42
may not have served. And because of this bond, when I walked into
21:45
some of the VA facilities, I initially some of my initial fears were put
21:51
to rest. I felt more secure in those environments just walking in the door.
21:56
One of the other things that I came to realize is that you have
22:00
to find a therapist who works with you. There's a synergy and a trust
22:08
that happens. Sometimes it happens a lot quickly, more quickly than others.
22:14
But if you don't have that trust, if you don't have that synergy,
22:18
if you don't have that willingness to be open and honest, then you're doing
22:22
yourself a disservice. Or if the therapist is not at a place where they
22:26
really can connect with you or understand where you're coming from, that can do
22:30
you a disservice because you may find yourself getting more frustrated with the kid that
22:37
you're getting. So I just had to learn that I have to become my
22:40
own advocate around my mental health care. And unfortunately, fortunately fortunately for me,
22:49
ninety nine percent of those that I came into contact with with good people
22:55
who really want the best for me, and I could tell it. So
22:57
that was very com to me as well. Was it crucial for you to
23:04
have a therapist who was in the military and or one who I had to
23:11
combat experience? Was that was that crucial for you. For me, it
23:15
was not crucial. What was important was that there could be other veterans who
23:22
were speaking with that therapist who feel comfortable because to me, if if he
23:27
passed, if the therapist passed that test, then and I'm trusting of my
23:33
fellow veterans, then I don't have to worry about it. Now. I
23:37
just had to figure out what my relationship with this therapist would be. So
23:44
for me personally, that was not a priority. The priority for me was
23:48
finding someone who I could work with who would help me figure out what tools
23:53
I needed to focus on to build myself up. Now, more specifically,
24:00
of treatment, what did you find helpful? Was it talk, therapy,
24:03
exposure, therapy, Medication was what? For me, It's all about meditation.
24:14
One of one of the tools I've learned is when I get to a
24:17
certain anxious place, I have to remove myself from that environment or step away
24:23
and meditate. Meditation allows me to separate fact and fiction. It allows me
24:30
to say, wait a minute, there is no no, there is no
24:34
no no sniper up there. There is that is not going to happen today.
24:44
So this fear that's causing me to want to shut down and step away
24:48
is unjustified, right, So I had to learn. So meditation gets me
24:53
the space, and then focusing on my breathing that helps me with distress was
25:00
as well. So that's been critical to me. I'll do that in a
25:04
heartbeat, as they say, because I find it that has been very helpful
25:08
to me. So talk to us about how this book was born. Memoirs
25:15
in the Moment, sure so as a result of the many because I've now
25:21
been actively in therapy for about twelve years now. So as a result of
25:26
the years, I started talking about my experience in Beaiiru, first with family
25:32
members and then with others. And what I discovered is by talking to people
25:37
from this perspective, not from I got this terrible problem, but this is
25:41
what happened and this is what I'm doing about it. From that perspective,
25:45
I felt empowered to do more. So I've always been one to believe in
25:52
writing and the power words, and so I wanted to chronicle my experience in
25:57
living with PTSD, not from the standpoint of how bad it is, but
26:02
from the perspective of while this has happened to me, and this has been
26:06
my experience, we can always make choices to get us to a better place,
26:14
which is what I've done. So the genesis of the book was I
26:17
just wanted to share this story in the hopes that somebody out there could read
26:21
it and start thinking, you know what, I can take the next step
26:25
in my journey as well now because he did it as he went through all
26:30
the things he's going through, and what I need to do is nothing compared
26:33
to that, or maybe it might be a lot, but I can take
26:36
that next step because someone else has done it before me. And that's the
26:40
whole just behind the book is to give people a sense of you can move
26:44
forward despite whatever challenges you may face. You just have to be willing to
26:48
do the work and be honest with yourself. You know, as you're talking,
26:52
it sounds so crazy to remember you saying you were in Oakland walking around
26:59
with it gone, just waiting for someone like to piss you off or whatever.
27:04
It's all the way right here to hear you talking about beautifully articulating the
27:11
purpose of this book. I mean, that's such a it seems like such
27:15
a distance, does it it circle, Yeah, it is, and and
27:19
I'm happy about that. You know, we can always look back and find
27:26
things to regret, and so on and so forth, and I think there's
27:30
always going to be that, but I choose to look at it from the
27:33
standpoint of I need to get through the gauntlet to get to where I am
27:37
today so that I can be a better service, be more authentic to those
27:41
who I want to help with the work that I'm doing around PTSD. When
27:45
you say authentic, what do you mean in that context? For instance,
27:51
oftentimes, when when you're speaking to another person who was in the military about
27:56
some traumatic experience or their mental health, first thing out many of their mouths
28:00
is, well, if you haven't been there, you don't know what I'm
28:03
talking about. And that's a very honest statement. Well, now, because
28:07
I've shared what I've been exposed to, and I've shown that even through all
28:12
that and all the years of ups and downs, you can get to a
28:15
better place. Now, I can speak with some authority, some authenticity to
28:19
a veteran who may be just coming out and say, look, I understand
28:23
exactly how you feel. This is what what happened to me, what I've
28:29
had to overcome, and these are things you need to be mindful of in
28:33
your journey to getting back to being your complete self. How did you organize
28:40
the book chronologically? So it's all about sharing my early So I go back
28:48
to my first the first thought I can remember as a young child in the
28:52
deep Woodard, Savannah, Georgia, and what and how I viewed and perceived
28:56
life. Then to the moment in time on went through October when we lost
29:02
the service members in Beiru, and how that that shift occurred. So I'm
29:06
going by the various years in my life chronologically to tell a story about how
29:11
I came, how I went from uh, innocent little child to young marine,
29:18
to angry marine, to homeless civilian to okay, a man about building
29:26
himself up and reconnecting with his life and reconnecting to what is most important to
29:30
him, which is family and my values. So it chronicles that. It's
29:36
I experience. You know, you mentioned values a couple of times, and
29:41
I think that was a very again, the very kind of strong statement about
29:45
being aware of whether your options are moving you toward away from your your values.
29:52
When did that realization become u for you? Because I could imagine that
30:03
at some point you were like, I don't even know what hell my values
30:07
are? You know? Right? Yeah? So I have to thank my
30:11
current doctor for that. I won't give a name to him, I can
30:15
say that he has spent a lot of time work helping me work through a
30:21
lot of these different things. And he started doing this exercise with me.
30:25
Whereas when I'm facing a dilemma in my mind is dilemma. He get a
30:30
piece of paper and on one side he writes the positive result and on the
30:34
other side he write the negative result. And for me, I'm a very
30:37
visual person as well, And so we would go through this exercise when he
30:41
said, Okay, you have to make a decision, and you're gonna go
30:45
this way or you're gonna go that way. The question is which these two
30:48
directions is the direction that supports your value. And then when confronted with that,
30:53
I'm now saying, okay, if I say I'm about my family,
30:59
then I should call my son, right. So little things like that.
31:03
So over time what happened was I began to see that by doing that exercise
31:10
and making that a part of how I navigate how I do things, I'm
31:12
actually building myself up and I'm building towards the things that I value most so
31:18
that I can have a relationship with my son, with my daughter, with
31:22
my mom, with my brothers and sisters. I can have relationship with my
31:26
nieces and nephews. I can get out and say hello to a stranger and
31:30
not feel that this strangers trying to hurt me. All these different things over
31:33
time, when I began to see that there is the tangible results of me
31:38
taking that position. When I was able to see that, it became a
31:45
part of how I navigate. That's not to say I don't still slip and
31:52
get caught up, but I can say that when I do slip, Now
31:56
what used to take a couple months or a couple of weeks for me to
32:00
get over can take a couple of days or a couple a couple of hours.
32:05
So I'm able to better manage the realities of my emotional experience because I'm
32:10
focusing on my values and something bigger than me. Wow. All right,
32:16
So as we kind of wind down here, do those show who's this book
32:22
for? This book is for anyone who's gone through any type of traumatic experience,
32:27
whether it's military or not. Because trauma is trauma. There are different
32:30
degrees of it. But I do believe that human being responds pretty much in
32:35
the same way to traumatic experiences, or they begin to display the same kinds
32:40
of behaviors as a result of it if it goes unchecked or unaddressed. So
32:46
it's for anyone who's dealing with a trauma in their lives who want to get
32:52
a sense of what can be accomplished if you just do the work. It's
32:57
a light read, it's not technical. Told us about. I try to
33:00
have as much fun with it as I can by talking about some of the
33:05
laughs in my life as such as well. But it's a very honest portrayal
33:08
of what my life has been from that point to this. For the therapists,
33:16
we're obviously a lot of therapists are listening to this of all different kinds.
33:20
Survivors, what suggestions would you have to the therapists who are listening to
33:27
this in terms of working with veterans And I would also even go so far
33:37
as to say working with men who've experienced trauma. Wow. So I like
33:45
to think, which is really ironic, because there's that part of it I'm
33:51
always fighting with, but I like to think that there's goodness in all people
33:54
first and foremost, and what happens is life happens in that and this can
34:00
get clouded. So what I would what I would do is I would encourage
34:04
all therapists who are interested in providing services to those with PTSD or military or
34:09
mail to keep pushing forward to create a space where the veteran or the individual
34:17
can feel safe, can feel that that you they are being heard, uh,
34:23
and that you're not you're not making any assumptions or that you're not just
34:28
checking ABCD off the list. Right. I know that a lot of the
34:34
evaluations have to deal with scoring and so on and so forth, and that's
34:37
that's fine, that's needed. I think though, what a veteran or what
34:42
I needed was to be able to talk to someone in a safe place where
34:46
I can get to a place where I was vulnerable. And I don't know
34:52
that I could say it was a conscious choice. I just feel that looking
34:55
back, that's what was needed, that's what I needed, and that's what
34:59
happened. It caused me to feel less fearful about taking the next step in
35:05
my evolution. So I would say, create that kind of space. Now,
35:12
I've never seen it. I've heard that some some therapists have kind of
35:15
tried to push back on a person's experience. I would say, please don't
35:22
do that, because whether we imagine the experience or whether it really happen in
35:30
our minds, it's real to us, and we develop our persona based on
35:35
what we believe. And so the challenge then becomes, how do you navigate
35:39
that in such a way that you don't then you keep the person individual interested
35:46
in the services that you're offering them. And so that's the challenge. And
35:52
to me, it's all about being able to acknowledge this is what this person
35:55
believes right here, right now, while you can see it's the truth and
36:00
not as well, it's not real. That's where that person is right now,
36:04
so we have to kind of walk him or her to a better place.
36:08
Awesome right to do. So, you know, what's the best way
36:12
for people to get in contact with you? People can reach me through my
36:15
website, which is Memoirs dot Work https Memoirs dot Work. They can also
36:24
learn a little bit about the Bayviot experience there and they can purchase the book.
36:30
We are on Barnes and Noble and we are on Amazon, so they
36:36
can purchase a book from there. But again they can also get access to
36:40
helpful things right now on the website, for instance, you can do a
36:44
survey or self assessment if you will, to see if you are dealing with
36:49
any of the traits of PTSD, that kind of stuff. I wanted to
36:52
be helpful to people right now so that going forward they can have a place
36:57
where they can use use those resources to continue to build themselves. Awesome.
37:02
We'll have all those looked up the show notes page at the Trauma Diapence podcast
37:07
dot com. Deducio, love to have you back, man. You are
37:12
awesome. Thank you so much for joining me anytime. Thank you all right,
37:15
Thank you for what you're doing. I appreciate it, and we veterans
37:19
appreciate it as well. Thank you. Shiate that all right, take care,