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UnchainedTV: Cruelty - Get The Hell Out Of Fashion Now! · UNCHAINEDTV'S Truth Files with Jane Velez-Mitchell

0:00
Now, here's your host, Jane Velez Mitchell.
0:03
You are looking at a woman performing an
0:06
incredible burlesque show.
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However, those are not real feathers, although they
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look just like real feathers.
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This is a cruelty-free fashion show.
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And this entire hour is going to be
0:19
cruelty-free, where we show you there is
0:22
no place for animal cruelty in fashion.
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Those are not real feathers.
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There is absolutely no need whatsoever to torture
0:31
any animal for fashion.
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Monica Kaye is the woman holding those feathers.
0:38
She's gonna be joining us today.
0:40
And there she is, Monica.
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We've got other fantastic guests, but take it
0:44
away.
0:45
Tell us about your campaign to end feathers
0:49
in fashion.
0:50
Hi, Jane, thanks for having me on.
0:52
I started the feather phase-out campaign in
0:57
January of last year, so it's been 13
1:00
months now.
1:02
And I was primarily motivated to begin this
1:06
campaign because as a dancer and as a
1:09
vegan, I'm very aware of how feathers are
1:13
used in all forms of dance.
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And it was always upsetting to me to
1:20
be in dressing rooms or even be an
1:22
audience member at a show and see feathers.
1:26
And I've met a lot of performers that
1:30
are either vegan or close to vegan, and
1:34
they also would prefer to use a non
1:39
-feather item, but we've just been kind of
1:44
just doing what everyone before us does.
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Typically, when you dance, you have a mentor.
1:50
When you're learning dance, and if the mentor
1:53
uses feathers, then the student ends up using
1:55
it.
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And that just keeps passing on and on
1:57
and on, generation to generation, practising using feathers.
2:02
And I never had to use feathers in
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any of my acts.
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And I came up with this faux feather
2:09
burlesque fan, and people are interested.
2:12
And I think that there's a need for
2:15
faux feathers in burlesque because the demand is
2:18
there.
2:18
People want to use them.
2:20
And I wanna say, and I'm gonna put
2:22
it right here in the comment section, you
2:25
have a show coming up, and it is
2:27
going to be a very, may I say,
2:30
sexy, glamorous event in Pomona, and it's cruelty
2:34
-free.
2:35
You said you would participate only if it
2:37
was cruelty-free.
2:38
Tell me about that.
2:39
Yeah, so when I started the campaign, unbeknownst
2:44
to me, and I'm finding this out now,
2:47
studios all over the world are using a
2:49
tutorial that I made to make these fans.
2:53
And there was a studio in Pomona where
2:55
a few of the students kept making these
2:58
faux feather fans using the feather phase-out
3:00
tutorial.
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And the owner of the studio decided to
3:04
reach out to me and invite me to
3:05
be a part of their Valentine's-themed show.
3:08
And I have been trying to retire for
3:13
a while now to move on to other
3:17
things.
3:18
And when she asked me to do it,
3:20
I thought, well, this would be a good
3:22
opportunity for me to get, just like with
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the vegan fashion show in Canada, this would
3:26
be a good opportunity for me to prove
3:28
that these are faux feathers, they're beautiful, burlesque
3:31
artists can use these.
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The audience, they don't even know that, they
3:37
can't even tell that they're fake.
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Like, they think they're real feathers.
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So I was pretty much motivated to do
3:44
the show because I could be on stage,
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get proof, photographic video proof that these are
3:51
usable props.
3:53
And, but the caveat would be that I
3:56
wouldn't want to participate in the show if
3:59
somebody else were using real feathers.
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Because that's just always been a real downer
4:05
for me as a performer.
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And I think- And you, this is
4:09
great activism by saying, look, I'll participate if
4:13
it's cruelty-free.
4:15
You made the entire performance cruelty-free.
4:18
Where'd it go?
4:18
I want to very quickly play your, just
4:22
a tiny snippet of your how to make
4:25
faux feathers tutorial that's all over YouTube.
4:29
Let's just take a quick look at it.
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And this video is going to show you
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how to make collapsable burlesque fans, just like
4:35
these, out of faux pompous.
4:37
So this stuff, not the real stuff.
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Got disassembled faux pompous.
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They come wrapped like this.
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So you just take that paper off, throw
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it in the trash, disassembled pompous.
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I also have some where I've trimmed the
4:57
stems off.
4:59
Wow.
5:00
So that's what people are using all around
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the world.
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The tutorial you created so that those who
5:07
want to have that feathery look, I saw
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it at the Superbowl.
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I mean, I pray that those weren't real
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feathers, but I just saw it this past
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weekend at the Superbowl.
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You're nodding your head, Nina Jekyll.
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You are a fierce campaigner against cruelty, the
5:22
leader of, and indeed Lady Freethinker in the
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house.
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And you have unmasked the most extraordinarily horrific
5:33
cruelty involving fur.
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And we're only gonna show a couple of
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photos because honestly it is just too disturbing.
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But your investigation has shown that fur unfortunately
5:45
is still continuing and still causing torture to
5:49
animals.
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It is.
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In fact, we found thousands of foxes and
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raccoon dogs just languishing in tiny filthy cages
6:02
on two Chinese fur farms.
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This was an investigation in cooperation with Paws
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of China, a local organisation.
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And as you can see there, this is
6:14
actually in transport.
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So after they're removed from their breeding housing
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cages using metal tongs or poles, they're crammed
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into these tiny, tiny cages and shipped off
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to slaughter.
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Some of them were actually slaughtered on site
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and very often they were seen moving, thrashing
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around, blinking, still visibly conscious even as they
6:42
were being skinned.
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So the animals are very much being skinned
6:46
alive in this industry.
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I know it's horrifying to talk about it,
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but unfortunately fur is still to some people
6:54
fashionable.
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And to think that these animals undergo such
7:00
suffering, so much pain and agony just so
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somebody can wear a coat or a trinket,
7:06
it is hard to wrap your head around.
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And I do hope that with these findings,
7:12
we can expose the reality of this industry
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to more people and help them make more
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compassionate decisions because nobody needs to wear fur.
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Those faux feathers were absolutely gorgeous.
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I love them.
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Similarly, we have all kinds of faux fur.
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You can wear any type of colour and
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texture imaginable and not have to kill an
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animal to do it.
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It's beyond comprehension evil.
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And I am proud to say that I
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am, and so are you Nina in California,
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which just became the first state in the
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nation in January of 2023 to officially ban
7:52
the sale and manufacture of any new animal
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fur products.
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Of course, it's a question of enforcement.
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Already some activists have gone and tried to
8:01
determine whether it's being enforced.
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And there are stores that one activist found
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pretty easily that still were selling new fur.
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And when she confronted them about the law,
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they said, so it seems, but they acted
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like they didn't know.
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So we have to make sure our government
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enforces the law in California.
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And this incredible activist said, everybody needs to
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become the fur police and go into stores
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in California and ask them, even with a
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hidden camera, are you selling fur?
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And if they start showing new fur, that
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is in violation of the law.
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They need to be prosecuted.
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And that is something that I certainly hope
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happens because a law is only as good
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as its enforcement.
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Now we've got the fashion show, the vegan
8:53
fashion show founder here from Canada.
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Vicky, we are so proud to have you.
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And I wanted to show a little bit
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of, you sent me some clips.
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I could have been watching them all day
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and all night because they were so glamorous
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and exciting.
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But tell us about your, the vegan fashion
9:15
show in Canada and how it is really
9:18
changing the game.
9:20
And by the way, this is still technically
9:22
New York Fashion Week going on.
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And we certainly hope that there's no fur,
9:27
no feathers, no silk, no wool.
9:30
Unfortunately there probably is, but take it away,
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Vicky.
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Hi, thanks for having me.
9:36
So yeah, I think a lot of the
9:37
people in the Toronto area and I'm sure
9:41
everywhere else, they don't really know what's going
9:44
on and how these animals become materials.
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And I say that in quotes for the
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fur industry, leather and everything like that.
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And so what we do is even for
9:56
our model casting, we'll have a presentation about
10:00
it.
10:01
We preview trailers for different documentaries such as
10:04
Slave.
10:07
Yeah, so I mean, I really started doing
10:09
this because of activism that I was doing
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and doing friendly outreach.
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And then I realised people were like, well,
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aren't you wearing leather shoes?
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And it's so easy to think, oh, what
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a ridiculous question.
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But people really don't know.
10:27
They don't know that the cheap old school
10:30
vegan leather exists, let alone next gen materials.
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And you still placed so many cutting edge
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fashion materials in your show.
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And I wanna get to that in a
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minute, but I have to tell you, the
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lines are lighting up.
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I think you're all familiar with Paige Parsons
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Roach.
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Your question or thought, Paige?
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Thank you, hopefully you can hear me.
10:59
Is it true that there are millions of
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animals that are actually bred to become costumes,
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become fashion and so forth around the world?
11:09
Can somebody else read me that, thank you.
11:11
Yeah, I mean, who wants to take that
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one, Nina?
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I mean, yes, animals are bred in those
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tiny cages that we uncovered in our investigation,
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a variety of species.
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We saw foxes, red foxes, Arctic foxes and
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raccoon dogs.
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Obviously there are minks and other animals as
11:30
well.
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And most of the fur right now is
11:35
distributed from China.
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There are still some other countries who also
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distribute, although thankfully it has been banned, I
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believe in about 20 countries raising animals for
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fur, which is phenomenal.
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But as long as people continue to purchase
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it and there's a market, it's going to
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be very hard to stamp it out completely.
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So we really have that power of choice
11:58
as consumers to stop this cruelty from happening.
12:02
You know, just yesterday I was walking my
12:05
dog.
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Zuh, you may hear them in the background
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every so often.
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And they remind us that these are sentient
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beings who are just like children and who
12:15
need to be protected.
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And my dogs and your dogs are no
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different than the dogs that they are torturing
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in China and in other parts of the
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world, okay?
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But there was a woman wearing a fur
12:27
coat and I've seen her several times.
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She had a dog and I walked right
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up to her and I said, I certainly
12:32
hope that's, oh, I had a feeling it
12:35
wasn't, but it made me disgusted that even
12:38
today walking around, you still see people, it
12:42
wasn't a full length fur coat, but it
12:44
was, you could see the fur trim.
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And it's like, wake up people.
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I mean, it's just beyond comprehension to be
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walking a dog and essentially wearing dogs at
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the same time.
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So, you know, it's really upsetting.
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And we, look, I was polite.
13:03
I didn't scream in her face, but I
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said, I certainly hope that's faux.
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And I think as I was walking away,
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she said it wasn't and tried to offer
13:10
an excuse.
13:11
But really to wear that is to essentially
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applaud animal torture.
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That's what it is.
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I can comment too on Paige's enquiry.
13:25
There's very little visibility in the feather supply
13:29
industry.
13:30
But what I did find was that there
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are birds that are protected across the world
13:36
in various countries for different reasons.
13:39
And so there is a lot of black
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market trading, illegal trading, smuggling, illegal slaughter of
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birds, some of which are protected, some are
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not.
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And so wearing feathers and treating it as
13:53
if it is a fashionable, desirable product encourages
13:58
that kind of black market trading.
14:01
Thank you so much for that.
14:03
We're gonna go out to the phone lines.
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We've got another caller, Nilo Farr in Dallas,
14:08
Texas.
14:09
Your question or thought for our panel, fighting
14:12
cruelty in fashion.
14:16
Hi, I am an animal activist in Dallas
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Fort Worth.
14:22
It's a privilege courtesy of Unchained TV.
14:26
Ending cruelty in fashion should be a winnable
14:29
campaign and we've come a long way.
14:32
Yet circa about a decade ago, it seemed
14:36
that satin fur was in sight.
14:39
But fur came back mostly in trims and
14:44
liners.
14:45
What remains as the fundamental challenge today to
14:50
eliminate cruelty as vegan fashion becomes more trendy?
14:57
Well, I'm gonna hit that with Nina and
15:00
then we'll go back to Vicky.
15:02
Yeah, that's a great question because we really
15:04
have come such a long way.
15:06
And for a while it seemed like fur
15:08
was just going to disappear very quickly.
15:10
Unfortunately, it's rarely quite that simple and there's
15:13
a pendulum.
15:14
It tends to swing right now.
15:16
We are seeing that mop wife fur trend
15:20
happening, unfortunately, which has made things more difficult.
15:25
That said, I do believe that the momentum
15:27
is still there.
15:28
And as long as we keep talking about
15:30
it, as long as we keep showing people
15:32
the reality behind it and offering those amazing
15:37
vegan fashions that you mentioned, I do believe
15:40
that not only is it winnable but we
15:42
will win this soon.
15:45
Patience is a must in activism, even when
15:49
it's an issue that just seems so obvious.
15:54
Fur is not relevant.
15:55
It does not need to exist.
15:58
And I think we're in those last stages
16:00
and that we will see a final nail
16:05
in the coffin fairly soon.
16:08
Yeah, and I mean, to me, it's a
16:10
contrarian indicator.
16:11
If you feel the need to wear fur,
16:13
to me it says you have a low
16:15
self-esteem because if maybe in the 19th
16:18
century, it was something that the upper classes
16:21
wore to distinguish themselves from the peasants or
16:23
whatever, but we're not in that stage anymore.
16:27
The most famous and the richest people in
16:29
the world walk around in t-shirts.
16:32
They hold investor meetings in t-shirts.
16:35
So a fur is really a contrarian indicator
16:40
and I do wanna get to some more
16:43
video on the vegan fashion show out of
16:46
Canada, but we've got more callers.
16:48
Annie in Sherman Oaks, your question or thought
16:50
for our fabulous panel.
16:53
Oh, hi, thank you, Jane.
16:55
Thank you fabulous panel, incredible work you do.
17:00
Yes, it's so disgusting that people do not
17:03
realise the cruelty behind the scenes.
17:06
Aside from doing the fashion show, Monica and
17:11
Lady Freethinker, all of you are amazing.
17:16
What methods are there companies to take over
17:20
the companies that actually sell real fur from
17:27
the animals, fur feathers and all that?
17:29
I'm an activist, I'd love to do that,
17:32
you know?
17:33
Yes, thank you.
17:35
Part of it is convincing companies that sell
17:37
fur to not sell fur.
17:38
And generally that takes some pretty intense protest.
17:43
And I've seen it, I've worked in these
17:45
campaigns.
17:46
You ask nicely, you send letters, you send
17:49
videotape, you do petitions, nothing, nothing, nothing.
17:52
And then when you start protesting inside their
17:55
stores, outside their homes, at events, like there
18:00
was a famous furrier who was being feted
18:02
at the Metropolitan Museum of Art.
18:04
And it was disrupted by activists who played
18:07
sounds of animals being skinned alive.
18:10
It was after that, that he came out
18:11
and said, I am no longer selling fur.
18:14
But it takes that kind of really intense
18:18
confrontation, appeals to conscience almost never work when
18:23
it comes to corporations.
18:25
And that is something that is very, very
18:27
sad, but it's very true.
18:30
Nina, just address that, and then we're gonna
18:32
go to Vicky.
18:33
Yeah, I mean, when there's profit involved, it
18:36
makes ending cruelty that much more insurmountable.
18:40
But when you add that public pressure, especially
18:43
when press gets involved, and when public opinion
18:46
starts to turn against that company for the
18:49
cruelty, that's where you can make inroads.
18:52
And we have seen it happen.
18:54
You know, now most major designers have stopped
18:57
selling fur, you know, really because of that
19:00
public pressure.
19:01
And there are a couple left, you know,
19:02
right now there's a really big push to
19:04
get Max Mara to stop selling fur.
19:07
And you just have to keep clamouring away,
19:09
be persistent, keep that message out there, get
19:12
it seen by as many people as possible.
19:14
And that tide does turn against that company
19:17
with enough pressure that things change.
19:19
All right, one more caller.
19:21
We've got Tom in Chicago.
19:25
Your question or thought for our panel.
19:27
Hi Jane, thanks for taking my call.
19:30
My question was that about celebrities that will
19:32
wear fur.
19:34
The other day, Reba McEntire is wearing a
19:36
fur coat.
19:37
Okay, a couple of years ago, we saw
19:38
a big boy at the Superbowl wearing a
19:39
fur coat.
19:40
Lady Gaga's wearing fur.
19:42
Why don't we reach out to the celebrities
19:43
and say, please not endorse these products because
19:46
they influence thousands, if not millions of people.
19:48
Someone needs to reach out to them and
19:50
say, do not wear fur, advocate, do not
19:52
cause the suffering and torturing of animals to
19:55
wear fake fur, things like this, if they
19:57
can influence these people.
19:59
It's really frustrating to see them do these
20:01
things.
20:01
It's so unconscionable they would wear fur products
20:04
and influence their audience, if you will.
20:06
Anyway, you could reach out to them and
20:08
tell them, please do not wear fur and
20:09
be an advocate for going fur free.
20:11
Thank you for taking my call.
20:13
Yeah, and I want to point out, I
20:14
do not have the ability to live television
20:18
confirm or deny any of the claims that
20:21
was made by that caller.
20:22
I don't know if those particular examples are
20:26
correct, but there were people, and it's hard
20:29
to tell when you're watching on TV, who
20:31
are watching major events that almost always you
20:34
see somebody that looks like they're wearing fur.
20:38
So let me move toward Vicky.
20:40
Vicky, how do we combat this?
20:44
You're doing it proactively with your fashion line
20:48
and it's very effective because your fashions are
20:52
gorgeous.
20:52
And so people would want to look like
20:55
that, look like you, look like the women
20:58
on the runway and the men on the
20:59
runway.
21:00
Yeah, I think people are very impressionable.
21:05
Things that we're seeing on social media, I
21:07
think people see it glamorised and we need
21:09
to let them know it's coming from violence.
21:12
It's not glamour.
21:14
We need to stop romanticising fur, for example.
21:19
And I think we need to take a
21:20
systems thinking approach.
21:22
There's just so many different angles we need
21:24
to attack this issue from.
21:26
And I feel like everyone can find their
21:28
own way to do their part.
21:30
For myself, I felt like the vegan fashion
21:33
show was something that I could do just
21:35
based on my experiences, experience with brands, networking
21:39
with influencers and brands over the years, and
21:42
just being a model in the past myself.
21:44
For me, this was the way that I
21:46
felt I could best do something about it.
21:50
There's so many things I wanna do, of
21:51
course, but I do like fashion and I
21:54
know a lot of my friends and acquaintances,
21:57
they like fashion and I want them to
21:58
know where it comes from.
22:00
I think everyone deserves to know how their
22:02
fashion is made and what it's really made
22:04
out of.
22:06
Yeah, and I wanna jump to the actual
22:09
fashion show as it happens.
22:12
So you can take a 32nd sense of
22:15
being there in Canada at the vegan fashion
22:18
show.
22:19
Let's listen to this and then we'll talk
22:20
on the other side.
22:21
And it's a fashion label based in Beijing,
22:23
China.
22:24
The designer brand was co-founded by Trans
22:26
Boundary designer, Stephen Shen and director, Louis Yin.
22:30
The designs are simple, structuralist, easy to wear
22:34
and dispels gender.
22:35
QZ Shen has won the Love Design Award
22:38
from PETA Asia.
22:50
Now, it seems like that is the cutting
22:53
edge in fashion.
22:54
It was gender fluid.
22:56
It was based out of China.
22:57
It got a PETA award.
23:00
Like you, vegan fashion is on the cutting
23:03
edge of fashion.
23:04
Yeah, we had a great mix of designers.
23:09
We had an indigenous designer, which is great
23:11
because a lot of people in Canada, at
23:14
least I know think that indigenous and vegan,
23:17
it's like conflicting, but it doesn't have to
23:18
be that way.
23:20
We had a faith-based designer.
23:22
And I think it's just good to intersect
23:25
with different values and causes and show that
23:29
everyone can be compassionate with their fashion choices.
23:32
No matter what you're looking for, there's something
23:35
out there for you.
23:36
Excellent.
23:37
And we've got more callers.
23:39
Let's see who's up next.
23:40
We've got Tiffany in Los Angeles.
23:42
Your question or thought for our fantastic panel.
23:47
Tiffany.
23:50
Gorgeous.
23:51
And it's really inspiring to see this.
23:53
I felt so, I won't mention any names,
23:55
but after watching the talent at the Superbowl
23:58
and then seeing them in a long white
24:01
fur jacket, I was just so disgusted.
24:04
So this is really inspiring.
24:07
Are there any plans to bring the show
24:08
to the States or Los Angeles in particular?
24:12
Good question, Vicki.
24:14
We could use it.
24:15
Now, I wanna say, we do have a
24:17
vegan fashion scene here.
24:21
And I was just, in fact, we did
24:22
a video about a vegan fashion show here
24:25
in Los Angeles, downtown LA, Michelle and I
24:28
were there and it was pretty fantastic.
24:31
But the more, the merrier, right?
24:32
There's a whole bunch of non-vegan fashion
24:35
shows.
24:36
We should have tonnes of vegan fashion shows.
24:38
Go ahead, Vicki.
24:40
So right now, yeah, as you said, that
24:42
there already is a vegan fashion week there.
24:45
So we're actually just focused on Canada right
24:49
now.
24:49
So we already have covered Toronto.
24:51
This year we're gonna be in Vancouver and
24:53
Toronto partnering up with Tanted Expo.
24:57
In the future, we'll go to Montreal as
24:59
well.
25:01
But yeah, and there's a lot of things
25:02
we can do online to reach people.
25:05
So yes, the more, the merrier.
25:06
I hope that there is more vegan fashion
25:08
events all over the world.
25:09
I also, I was thinking, recently, I wish
25:13
I called it Next Gen Fashion Week because
25:15
now I'm just such, I'm a geek for
25:17
all these new materials coming out.
25:20
But when I had thought about this idea
25:22
originally years ago, next gen fashion and materials
25:26
were not really coming out.
25:28
So I wasn't even aware of the term
25:30
next gen materials at that time.
25:33
So, you know, every year there's changes, there's
25:36
so much more innovation every year and I'm
25:38
just really excited about it.
25:39
Well, let me just show the purse runway
25:41
show.
25:42
This was part of your vegan fashion show
25:45
in Canada and this was next gen materials.
25:48
Maybe you can explain a little bit.
25:51
Yes, so this is made out of Mirum.
25:55
So Mirum is, you know, the most commercially
25:58
available right now material that is plastic free,
26:01
a vegan plastic free material.
26:03
But not only is it zero plastic, it
26:05
is low carbon.
26:07
It takes no water to make.
26:09
It's non-toxic, it's all natural.
26:12
It's circular and by circular, I mean, that
26:14
is what Mirum wants us to say when
26:16
we talk about it, but what it really
26:18
means, it is biodegradable in the right conditions.
26:23
I don't say that it's recyclable, you can
26:26
endlessly recycle it because I don't think recycling
26:29
is like, you know, the end all solution,
26:31
but it's circular.
26:32
You know, there's just really no downsides to
26:34
it.
26:35
So, I mean, of course, let's not kid
26:37
ourselves, overconsumption is the biggest problem.
26:40
So I'm not saying to like go buy,
26:42
buy, buy, but there really is no more
26:44
excuses.
26:45
You know, we have the leather industry saying,
26:48
oh, like vegan leather is plastic, blah, blah,
26:50
blah.
26:50
And by the way, with people that say
26:53
that, I'm glad that people are concerned about
26:56
plastic pollution, but I hope they don't eat
26:58
fish because the fishing industry is a really,
27:01
you know, top polluter there.
27:02
So anyways, back to vegan fashion, you know,
27:05
there's just no excuses now to be wearing
27:09
real leather.
27:10
What I don't get is that fashion always
27:13
tries to be on the cutting edge.
27:16
Fashion really is about evolution, the evolution of
27:20
style.
27:21
And you'd think that everybody would want to
27:26
embrace the very latest.
27:27
Now we know with a lot of fancy
27:29
electric luxury cars, there's vegan leather and vegan
27:33
leather has taken over.
27:35
I love to look at people's feet when
27:37
I'm walking in a crowded area and I'm
27:39
seeing more and more people are not wearing
27:41
leather.
27:43
Maybe, you know, on Wall Street, there's a
27:45
lot of leather shoes, but everywhere else, it
27:47
seems that a lot of shoes are just
27:49
non-leather.
27:50
I was at a very hard show, showroom
27:55
the other day where there were shoes everywhere
27:57
and there was a tag, I'll leave the
27:59
brand name out of it, said vegan leather.
28:01
And I turned to the woman, I said,
28:03
oh, I said, this is vegan leather, what
28:06
about this?
28:06
And she said to me, all of our
28:08
shoes are vegan.
28:09
Like I was an idiot, I was like,
28:10
yay, yay.
28:12
So, I mean, let's do a round robin
28:15
on this.
28:15
Like why, Monica, you're in fashion, you're in
28:21
burlesque, you're in, you know, basically it's about
28:25
wanting to be attractive, wanting to be sexy,
28:27
wanting to be cool, wanting to be the
28:30
latest and the greatest.
28:31
Why would people wanna be in this old
28:33
fashioned materials?
28:35
Yeah, I mean, I think that people just
28:38
kind of do what the people around them
28:41
do.
28:42
And when it comes to fashion, I think
28:45
that people are influenced.
28:48
I think someone had mentioned that earlier.
28:50
I think also there's two groups, there's two
28:52
mentalities.
28:53
One group just doesn't, maybe doesn't care about
28:56
animals.
28:56
One group just doesn't care.
28:58
The other group cares, they just don't know
29:01
the truth, right?
29:04
And then real quick about the community that
29:07
I'm focused on, the burlesque community, they happen
29:09
to be very confident.
29:11
They have lots of self-esteem.
29:13
It takes a lot of self-esteem and
29:14
confidence to perform on stage.
29:16
So this is the group of people that
29:18
I think would easily transition over to faux
29:21
feathers because they are not trying to, burlesque
29:27
is all about challenging status quo.
29:29
It's all about creativity and uniqueness and embracing
29:34
things that are different.
29:37
So, you know, this notion of like, okay,
29:40
well, people wear fur because they want to
29:42
seem elite or upper class or whatever.
29:45
That doesn't necessarily have to be the case
29:48
in burlesque because these dancers actually do care
29:51
about animals.
29:52
It's just, they are not being told the
29:54
complete truth.
29:55
And what is the truth?
29:56
We don't know because there's not a lot
29:58
of undercover investigations regarding feathers.
30:01
There's the down feathers, down feathers not too
30:05
much used in burlesque.
30:07
And then there was the expose on ostriches,
30:10
but that's it.
30:11
Like there's no other undercover stuff regarding feathers.
30:15
I think what you're saying is people think,
30:16
oh, they just fall off the animal and
30:18
there's no cruelty.
30:19
And that's not true, correct?
30:21
No, that's not true.
30:23
There's no way that, well, first of all,
30:26
ostriches don't moult.
30:28
So ostrich feathers are probably one of the
30:30
pop, the most popular feather used in burlesque.
30:33
And ostriches do not moult.
30:35
If you ask a company that profits off
30:38
of ostrich feathers, they're gonna say, oh yeah,
30:40
there's a moulting season.
30:42
But they're probably referring to when they're plucking
30:45
feathers off and they're just calling that a
30:47
moulting season.
30:48
And companies that do not profit off of
30:50
feathers, bird experts, things like that, they'll say
30:54
that ostriches do not have a moulting season.
30:58
Yeah, there's an in demand for feathers.
31:00
There's just thousands and millions and millions of
31:03
feathers.
31:03
For example, the Big Bird.
31:06
Yeah, I have to keep brand names out
31:08
of this.
31:09
But let's go to Michelle Celestino, our social
31:13
media director and a fashionista who does OMGLA,
31:18
which is one of our series looking at
31:21
fashion in Los Angeles.
31:22
What are your thoughts?
31:24
Well, first of all, I wanna say all
31:25
of you are so amazing and I'm so
31:27
glad we're doing this segment.
31:29
I love fashion.
31:31
I always loved fashion.
31:32
I think one of the biggest things for
31:35
me to go from plant-based to vegan
31:37
was changing out the fashion.
31:39
And I have a lot of friends that
31:41
are conscious, but they don't know what to
31:44
do.
31:45
So I think what it is, and I'd
31:47
love to get everyone's opinion, maybe it's changing
31:51
the perception of luxury because that's why a
31:54
lot of my friends who buy all the
31:56
brands and all the clothing, it's the idea
31:59
and perception of what that means and the
32:01
luxury of it.
32:02
And your feathers are amazing.
32:04
I think they're even prettier in that, like
32:06
you can dye them and do different things
32:08
to them.
32:09
What do you all think?
32:11
I think we should have a variety of
32:15
different price points for, I'll talk about vegan
32:19
handbags because this is just in my life
32:21
so much, but people will complain if it's
32:25
too costly, but at the same time, yeah,
32:27
we do need to address the luxury desire
32:30
as well.
32:30
So I think it's great to have lower
32:34
price points for more affordable vegan handbags and
32:38
other types of materials, but then also have
32:41
the luxury brands as well.
32:43
So I think that's gonna be very helpful.
32:45
And there is this unfair association with vegan
32:49
products, particularly handbags and shoes as plastic, but
32:54
you're pointing out that this product here is
32:56
not plastic and it's very environmentally sound.
33:00
Yes, and we're gonna see more and more
33:02
of that.
33:03
There is a lot in the works right
33:04
now from different material manufacturers, but this is
33:08
the most commercially available one right now.
33:10
Yeah, and I have to say also that
33:13
Vegan Women's Summit is coming up here in
33:16
Los Angeles where there's a plethora of entrepreneurs,
33:21
women entrepreneurs making incredible vegan products.
33:25
I attended the Vegan Women's Summit in Brooklyn
33:27
last year.
33:28
There were people making pineapple leather and all
33:31
sorts of leathers from these great products.
33:35
And honestly, I have a cork leather backpack
33:39
that was made by a vegan fashion designer.
33:42
I thought, how long is this gonna last?
33:44
It has lasted beyond all of my other
33:47
products.
33:48
It is so durable.
33:50
So Nina, what do we do to counteract
33:54
this notion that somehow, and this is put
33:56
out by industry, that if it's not leather,
33:59
that A, that leather is natural, which it's
34:02
not, that leather doesn't require a lot of
34:04
chemicals.
34:05
It does.
34:06
That vegan products are somehow plastic.
34:09
They're not.
34:10
Of course, you can have plastic.
34:12
There's plastic with leather.
34:14
There's plastic without leather.
34:16
But how do we counteract this misinformation?
34:20
Right, I just wanna say that I also
34:22
have a cork leather bag that I absolutely
34:24
love.
34:25
I don't know if it's the same brand,
34:26
but it's super high quality, soft, pliable.
34:31
So, I mean, there is definitely a perception
34:33
that if it's not real leather, then it's
34:35
some sort of synthetic plastic, terrible for the
34:38
planet.
34:39
And we do have to overcome that.
34:41
And I think the more products that come
34:43
out that are made from natural materials will
34:46
help perpetuate that.
34:48
Not all vegan leather is just a cheap
34:51
plastic pair of shoes from Amazon.
34:53
There's really a high-end, well-designed fashion
34:58
out there as well.
35:00
I will say that I doubt that most
35:03
people buy leather because of environmental concerns.
35:08
I don't, I mean, some people, yes, that
35:10
might be their impetus.
35:11
For others, I just think they're not really
35:14
thinking about it because leather is just so
35:16
pervasive.
35:17
It's considered normal among many fashion brands when
35:22
you do look at their higher-end shoes,
35:25
that they are made from animal skins.
35:26
That's just the way it is.
35:27
And we need more education, more variety.
35:31
There's still this perception that leather is just
35:33
this sort of by-product and animals aren't
35:35
really harmed for it.
35:36
And it's okay to buy.
35:37
I think there's a lot of consumer education
35:39
involved.
35:40
And there's also a lot of pressuring and
35:44
encouraging brands to come up with more products
35:48
because as much as we have out there,
35:50
the majority of what we see is still
35:54
made from animals.
35:55
Yeah, but I try to be hopeful.
35:58
And of course, our rural population is increasing.
36:01
So even when we have positive trends, we're
36:05
always fighting the numbers because even if more
36:07
and more people are wearing non-leather shoes
36:12
and going with vegan leather in their cars
36:17
because there's so many people, it seems like
36:20
we're always fighting just the sheer numbers of
36:24
humanity making bad decisions.
36:26
But I'd like to think that getting to
36:30
Michelle's point, that there's now an association of
36:34
vegan leather with luxury.
36:37
Teslas are obviously luxury cars.
36:39
They're vegan leather.
36:40
And some of the other electric cars are
36:43
mimicking that with the vegan leather.
36:45
When I first, I remember when I first
36:48
asked for a non-leather seats in a
36:51
car that I was buying, I was basically
36:54
like accused of being cheap.
36:56
And I was like, no, I do this
36:58
for philosophical reasons.
37:00
And that did not, now I think people
37:03
really understand that there's a good reason to
37:07
switch to vegan leather, a lot of people
37:09
anyway, and that it is associated with luxury.
37:12
I mean, I think we have to, whoever
37:14
frames the debate, wins the debate.
37:18
Maybe a round robin on this, how do
37:20
we better associate vegan products, and I'll start
37:24
with Vicky, with luxury and point out that
37:28
those other products are not just passe, okay?
37:32
But they're really vulgar and they're something that
37:38
you shouldn't wanna be associated with.
37:40
That's why I was shocked to see the
37:41
lady just yesterday with the fur.
37:43
I was like, gross.
37:46
I hope I don't run into her today
37:48
if she's washing this.
37:49
Go ahead.
37:52
So yeah, that's one reason I felt that
37:54
the Vegan Fashion Show is important to provide
37:57
a platform for the brands that are passionate
37:59
about the same things that we are as
38:01
well.
38:02
And also just for the community to celebrate
38:05
compassionate choices, because when we don't have, you
38:10
know, we'll talk about the models a lot
38:13
because I've been so close with them and
38:16
I know where they're coming from.
38:18
And when there's nowhere to be a model
38:21
and celebrate compassionate choices, it's just kind of
38:24
left out of the conversation.
38:25
And so I wanna make it, I didn't
38:27
wanna do a bad job.
38:29
I didn't want this to be like some
38:30
little put together last minute kind of fashion
38:33
show because I wanted to show that this
38:35
can be luxurious and desirable as well.
38:38
So yeah, I think really just displaying how
38:40
good it can look is very important.
38:43
And this can be on social media.
38:45
This can be at fashion shows when we're
38:47
having conversations with people, you know, the image
38:50
of vegan fashion definitely needs some help.
38:53
And I wanna say that the pandemic, I
38:57
think put the nail in the coffin of
38:59
fur because as we know, if you've been
39:03
watching the news that during the pandemic mink
39:07
in Europe became contaminated, they got the virus
39:12
and they put hundreds of millions of them.
39:15
I don't remember exactly how many millions, but
39:18
it was like literally dozens of millions of
39:20
them to death, horrible death.
39:24
And not only that, but there was a
39:27
lot of video of all these minks being
39:30
put in dumpsters, white minks with blood all
39:34
over them.
39:35
And any last vestige of an association with
39:41
glamour, I think was destroyed, thankfully.
39:44
I consider those mink martyrs, martyrs because they
39:48
showed just the horror of it and also
39:51
just strip the glamour from it.
39:54
And I was wondering, Nina, since you're very
39:57
involved given your undercover investigation showing the horror
40:02
of it, if you could comment on that
40:03
a little bit.
40:04
Yeah, so what COVID did was effectively end
40:09
mink farming in some places of the world
40:12
because the farmers all of a sudden had
40:14
to cull their entire populations.
40:17
And as horrible as that is, that all
40:21
of those animals died needlessly, what came from
40:26
that was that it didn't start up again.
40:30
I believe Denmark is an example of that.
40:34
Now, obviously the industry is still happening as
40:36
we saw in China in our investigation as
40:39
well as in other parts of the world.
40:43
But that mass culling and sickness that happened
40:49
on fur farms had a huge impact in
40:52
the industry and the way that the governments
40:55
perceived that industry as well.
40:58
So, at least there was some positive of
41:02
all those minks dying and future minks were
41:07
saved as a result of that.
41:10
Yes, and I mean, it's a process.
41:12
What I always try to point out to
41:13
myself when I get frustrated is it's hard
41:16
to see progress in real time.
41:18
All of this is a blink of an
41:20
eye in the span of geologic time, even
41:22
from the agricultural era to the industrial era,
41:26
it's all happening.
41:27
But for us, it seems like forever.
41:30
Ultimately, we're gonna have to switch because our
41:33
planet cannot sustain what's happening.
41:36
And all leather, yes, leather and fur from
41:39
animals should be absolutely banned.
41:42
And we'd like to remind everybody that here
41:45
in California, happy to say that there is
41:50
a fur ban in place.
41:52
As of January 1st, 2023, it is illegal
41:56
to sell or manufacture new fur in California.
42:00
Unfortunately, there is an enforcement issue and there
42:04
are activists who have gone out there and
42:06
literally Googled fur stores and gone into those
42:09
fur stores with a tape recorder rolling and
42:13
they're selling new fur.
42:15
So, we've got to crack down on that.
42:17
And maybe you wanna take that one up
42:19
as your next investigation, not to give you
42:22
any assignments.
42:23
Everybody's an assignment editor and I hate when
42:25
people do assignments to me all the time.
42:28
But the point is that it's a giant
42:31
leap in the right direction, but it's gotta
42:33
be enforced.
42:34
It absolutely does have to be enforced.
42:37
And step one, pass the legislation.
42:41
Step two, make sure that people follow it.
42:44
And that's why enforcement is so crucial.
42:48
And I'm happy that there are activists who
42:52
have seemed to identify certain retailers who are
42:55
still selling real fur.
42:58
And hey, maybe a Lady Freethinker investigation is
43:01
coming up, I don't know.
43:03
But it's something that must be monitored.
43:05
And in the meantime, we'll continue to push
43:07
for other bans.
43:09
There are other areas that hopefully will ban
43:12
fur soon as well.
43:13
Progress has been slow, but we've seen that
43:16
it's possible.
43:17
And I do believe that it is in
43:19
the future eventually.
43:20
And I wanna point out something that one
43:23
of our commenters is saying, which is a
43:25
very apropos point.
43:28
When we're talking about Canada, a bill has
43:30
been introduced to the House of Commons to
43:32
prohibit fur farming in Canada.
43:35
In fact, Unchained TV has an entire documentary
43:37
about this called Ending Real Fur, which I
43:40
urge you to watch.
43:41
Just go to watch.unchainedtv.com and you
43:45
can see this documentary which premiered on Unchained
43:47
TV and has gotten about 100,000 views
43:50
so far.
43:51
So it's doing very well.
43:52
But what is the situation, Vicky, in Canada?
43:55
Because Canada, because it's cold, a lot of
43:58
people use that as an excuse.
44:00
Of course, it's no excuse.
44:02
People aren't wearing fur coats to the top
44:04
of Mount Everest or wherever they're climbing in
44:06
cold weather.
44:08
Synthetics are obviously far more sophisticated.
44:11
But where does it stand in Canada?
44:15
So we've had some, I would say, success
44:18
in British Columbia, which is on the far
44:21
east side of Canada, and, or sorry, west
44:26
side.
44:27
And yeah, so I think what we can
44:29
do as activists or just concerned citizens and
44:33
consumers is just follow the nonprofits that are
44:37
really working on this and Ending Real Fur
44:41
is one, Animal Justice is one.
44:43
And just, we have to think about the
44:46
political aspect of it and the laws and
44:48
just really support the nonprofits that are trying
44:51
to make change.
44:52
I would like to see more bans all
44:54
across Canada.
44:56
Because yeah, it's a public health risk.
44:58
There's so many reasons not to be wearing
45:01
fur.
45:02
Oh, absolutely.
45:03
And the pandemic risk is still there.
45:08
I just don't understand how, despite the pandemic
45:14
causing millions, many, many millions of minks to
45:18
be killed.
45:19
They would have been killed anyway, but just
45:21
killed on mass.
45:22
A mass, whatever you wanna call it, a
45:25
genocide of these animals.
45:27
It's still something that is a hard sell
45:30
for some politicians.
45:34
It seems like what, do you ever wonder,
45:37
Nina, what's it gonna take?
45:39
We also, just looking at the pandemic, I
45:41
mean, just speaking of the pandemic, it was
45:44
a zoonotic illness, most likely started in the
45:48
Wuhan wet market where they were killing many
45:51
different species and co-mingling blood and stacking
45:55
animals together.
45:56
Or even if you think of the outlier
45:58
theory of the Wuhan lab, they were torturing
46:01
animals there.
46:02
It stemmed from animals and nonetheless, it doesn't
46:05
seem like, despite all that, our culture has
46:11
really woken up to the self-destructive nature
46:16
of animal exploitation.
46:19
Not quite.
46:21
Thankfully, things have improved dramatically, but we do
46:24
have a long way to go.
46:26
I know before we mentioned the profit factor,
46:30
and the truth is that there are lobbyists
46:32
in the fur industry who do not want
46:35
this trade to end because their livelihoods go
46:39
away with it.
46:40
And that makes the battle in politics, especially
46:44
that, much more difficult.
46:46
And we need politicians who care less about
46:50
lobbyists and more about morality, the truth be
46:55
told, to get that legislation passed.
46:58
And in the meantime, we need to work
47:00
on our end to get that public pressure
47:02
out and encourage other consumers just to turn
47:08
away from it, to turn away from it.
47:09
And many already have.
47:12
It's gonna happen.
47:13
I know that it's going to happen.
47:15
And it just takes all of our voices
47:17
to make it.
47:19
I will say, I think it requires, and
47:22
I'm not proud to say this, I wish
47:23
I didn't have to say this, but I
47:25
think it requires public shaming of corporations that
47:29
allow any of these big, big events, whether
47:33
it's the Super Bowl or the whatever, there's
47:37
obviously producers, there's gatekeepers.
47:41
And if somebody is hell-bent on wearing
47:43
fur, there's got to be consequences for that
47:47
in terms of public shaming.
47:49
We did that at one point.
47:52
A little group of ours went down.
47:54
I think it was one of the big
47:56
shows.
47:57
It was a couple of years ago, so
47:58
I don't wanna say which one, but there
48:00
was somebody who was wearing fur.
48:02
It was advertised beforehand that this was the
48:05
outfit, and we went down and protested right
48:07
outside.
48:08
And it did have an impact for the
48:10
people coming in.
48:11
And most of the people coming in said,
48:12
that's horrible, that's horrible, that's horrible.
48:14
But there's gotta be a concerted effort where
48:17
when somebody goes out of their way to
48:21
wear real fur, okay, at a very large
48:25
event that is gonna have an impact on
48:26
people all around the world, that there are
48:29
consequences for that, that there is some kind
48:32
of public accountability.
48:35
What do people think about that?
48:36
Monica?
48:39
Yeah.
48:41
I think that that's wonderful, that's great.
48:45
Feather Phaseout actually has plans on possibly doing
48:49
some demonstrations next year.
48:52
The goal was to phase out feathers by
48:54
2025, so next year, doing some protests.
48:58
I think that where I'm at right now
49:02
in terms of trying to gain a following,
49:05
the course that I'm taking is giving people
49:08
the information, as much information as I can,
49:12
so that they just don't even want to
49:16
buy it.
49:16
I don't know what's going on with musicians
49:19
and concerts, like if there's a wardrobe department
49:22
that's encouraging the performer to wear a certain
49:26
thing.
49:27
So I can't really speak to that, but
49:29
with the burlesque community, the dancers choosing their
49:34
own outfit.
49:36
And so if I can just make sure
49:38
that everyone in the community understands, like this
49:40
is where feathers are coming from, and then
49:46
let them make the choice, because I think
49:48
if they have the information, they're going to
49:51
choose the non-feather alternative, the faux.
49:55
And I want to just point out, for
49:57
those who might be just joining us, those
49:59
are not real feathers taken from animals.
50:03
Monica's entire campaign, Feather Phase Out, is to
50:07
show people that, look, you can't tell the
50:09
difference, continue on.
50:10
Yeah, and the burlesque, and I'm just going
50:13
to speak from burlesque, because that's what I
50:14
know, but the dancers that I've met, deep
50:17
down inside, they know that they don't want
50:21
to use feathers.
50:22
They're just doing it because that's the uniform
50:24
of this art form.
50:27
And that's what everyone, they go to a
50:29
show and they're in the dressing room, everybody's
50:31
got feathers.
50:31
So they're just kind of doing whatever everybody
50:33
else is doing.
50:35
But I think that they know deep down
50:37
inside that there's something secretive about this industry.
50:41
If you email a company that sells feathers,
50:44
hey, where are the birds?
50:46
What's the deal with the feathers?
50:48
They always say the feathers come from industries
50:53
where the feathers would otherwise be discarded.
50:56
So that statement instantly makes the dancer feel
50:59
like, oh, well, I'm actually helping because this
51:01
would go in the trash.
51:02
But it's a lie.
51:03
Well, it's a lie, yeah.
51:05
And it's also incomplete.
51:07
It's a vague way to validate this purchase.
51:11
Like, look, it's going to get thrown in
51:12
the trash.
51:13
You might as well just buy it.
51:14
And so, and then the person that buys
51:16
it, just that's the end of the discussion.
51:19
Well, it was going to get thrown in
51:20
the trash.
51:20
It's not complete.
51:21
And so that's what I'm hoping will happen
51:24
with this campaign is eventually more and more
51:27
information's going to come out.
51:29
Like, let's see these birds.
51:30
Let's see how they're kept.
51:31
Let's see how they're killed.
51:32
Let's see how the feathers are plucked.
51:34
Whether the bird is alive or whether the
51:36
bird is dead, the feather is plucked.
51:39
Absolutely.
51:40
Okay, we only got a couple of minutes.
51:42
First of all, I do want to point
51:43
out one thing that somebody said to me
51:46
who was in the fashion industry, and that
51:48
is that the people who dress the celebrities
51:52
are always looking for some new angle or
51:55
something that's different.
51:58
And so it's sort of a lack of
52:00
imagination that they're often the ones pushing fur
52:05
on, or feathers, or other animal products onto
52:09
the celebrities because they've got to make them
52:12
look different.
52:13
I mean, when you see these red carpets,
52:15
it's all a big competition.
52:16
Who's going to be in the paper the
52:18
next day?
52:18
Who's going to be on the viral?
52:22
Who's going to go viral?
52:23
So how do we reach those designers, Vicky,
52:26
and those people who dress the celebrities?
52:30
Well, as a publicist myself, I would say
52:33
we need to connect with their publicists and
52:37
show them the really neat options that are
52:39
out there.
52:40
There is actually plastic-free faux fur as
52:43
well.
52:43
And some of it looks really outrageous.
52:47
It's really fun.
52:48
It can be sparkly and colourful, and you
52:51
can make really cool costumes with all of
52:53
these materials.
52:55
And so that's the same with what Monica
52:57
is doing.
52:58
We have to just show that it's possible.
53:00
And then, you know what?
53:01
It gives a good story angle to say,
53:03
not only is this a really unique outfit
53:07
and all extra and everything, but it's also
53:10
environmentally friendly, well, it has environmental benefits, I'll
53:14
say.
53:14
And we can talk about that.
53:16
That's like a news story.
53:17
You know, there's some good things to talk
53:19
about.
53:19
So I think our publicists and, you know,
53:22
whoever else is, like stylists, for example, that
53:25
are in charge of helping the celebrities get
53:27
dressed, I think they should be thinking about
53:29
this too.
53:29
Like, let's get you in the news for
53:31
a good reason.
53:32
All right, final thoughts.
53:35
Nina Jackal, where do we go from here?
53:38
I think there's a lot of hope in
53:41
this area.
53:42
This is, as someone said, a winnable campaign.
53:45
I think we're on the right track.
53:47
Everyone on this panel is doing amazing work.
53:50
It's been a pleasure to be here with
53:52
you all and just keep getting the word
53:54
out, keep the pressure on, and keep shopping
53:58
for those wonderful vegan alternatives.
54:01
Absolutely.
54:03
Monica, you've got the final word, my dear.
54:07
Artists, creators, people that sew.
54:09
If you make things, if you're an inventor,
54:12
this is just me getting the ball rolling
54:14
on faux feather fans.
54:16
Make a faux feather, improve on this design,
54:19
because I can't do it alone.
54:21
If we all work together, we can come
54:23
up with something that's really beautiful, that's plastic
54:25
-free, that's bird-free, compassionate, and beautiful.
54:29
Absolutely, and as we wrap up, I always
54:32
urge everyone, please download, download the Unchained TV
54:40
streaming app.
54:41
It's so easy to download.
54:43
You can download it for free on your
54:45
phone.
54:45
Just go to your app store or on
54:47
any Samsung TV or on any TV using
54:50
Amazon Fire Stick, a Roku device, or an
54:52
Apple TV device, or you can just go
54:53
to unchainedtv.com and watch it online.
54:57
Thank you.
54:57
Fantastic panel.
54:58
You're all my heroes.
54:59
We will see you next time here on
55:01
Voice of America Radio.
55:03
Bye.