Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Cops: Swim Team Star Rapes Coed in Dorm Room, Flees to Canada

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Cops: Swim Team Star Rapes Coed in Dorm Room, Flees to Canada · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:06
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Well, it's happened again, according
0:17
Speaker 1: to a rape victim and police investigators. How many times
0:24
Speaker 1: will an athlete get preferential treatment after brutal rape charges?
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Speaker 1: This time we have a University of Utah swimmer actually
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Speaker 1: skipping the country and fleeing to Canada when his alleged
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Speaker 1: rape victim finally finds her voice and makes a complaint.
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Speaker 1: Talk about flight as being in dish of guilt. You know,
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Speaker 1: when a lot of jurisdiction's flight as inn disha of
1:05
Speaker 1: guilt is no longer a jury charge. A judge doesn't
1:11
Speaker 1: tell the jury that they can consider flight as evidence
1:15
Speaker 1: of guilt. However, it can still be argued by prosecutors.
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Speaker 1: And I've never seen a case fit for that argument
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Speaker 1: as this case an elite university swimmer accused of rape.
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Speaker 1: Besides to what go on Vaca in Canada? Never seen
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Speaker 1: Niagara Falls? Do you believe that? Because I don't? Imancy Grace,
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Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
1:44
Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Serious ex sem one to eleven.
1:47
Speaker 1: How do the whole thing start? Take a listen to
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Speaker 1: our friends at Fox thirteen.
1:52
Speaker 2: A sophomore on the University of Utah swimming and diving
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Speaker 2: team has been charged with rape a student at the
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Speaker 2: Utah Police she met nineteen year old Ben Smith in
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Speaker 2: her dorm building last August, and later that day he
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Speaker 2: visited her in her room and started kissing her. She
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Speaker 2: said she told him no multiple times, but he kept
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Speaker 2: forcing her into various sex acts. When police interviewed him,
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Speaker 2: Smith first den I knowing the victim, but then acknowledge
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Speaker 2: having sex with her and knowing she was in pain.
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Speaker 1: Oh, dear Lord in Heaven, I haven't even gotten into
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Speaker 1: the beginning of the facts, and it's like deja vu,
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Speaker 1: a bad flashback, because that sounds like every rape case ever.
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Speaker 1: Let me just go straight out to Donna Kelly. I've
2:36
Speaker 1: got an all star panel including Jared Page with the
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Speaker 1: guiptp art daily in Salt Lake City. But Donna Kelly,
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Speaker 1: former Utah Senior Deputy District Attorney attorney for crimes victims,
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Speaker 1: helped form the Utah County Sex Crimes Task Force. Can
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Speaker 1: they at least come up with a different story, because
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Speaker 1: first of all, it's that it didn't happen. Oh who,
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Speaker 1: I don't know her, and then you go, oh, well, look,
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Speaker 1: here's video from the bar and there you are sitting
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Speaker 1: beside each other on a bar steel. Oh that girl,
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Speaker 1: I still don't know her. I just saw her in
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Speaker 1: the bar. I had nothing to do with her. Well, sir,
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Speaker 1: if you look at the rest of the video, you
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Speaker 1: see you and her leaving the bar together. Oh yeah,
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Speaker 1: you know what I did offer as a gentleman to
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Speaker 1: walk her to her car because it was late at night.
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Speaker 1: And sir, we have your fingerprints on her car. Well,
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Speaker 1: I opened the car door for her. On the inside
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Speaker 1: of her car. Well, you know what. I sat in
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Speaker 1: there for a few moments and we talked. Well you
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Speaker 1: know what, she says, you raped her. Well, we may
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Speaker 1: have had consensual sex, but she wanted it. Well, the
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Speaker 1: rape kit nurse says she was raped. And your DNA
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Speaker 1: is there. See how the progression of that story go's
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Speaker 1: Donna Kelly. So here we say what who we see
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Speaker 1: him saying? What did it? Oh? Yeah her, that was consensual.
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Speaker 1: It's the same old, same old. Can't they come up
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Speaker 1: with something? Need just want surprise me?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you're right on, Nancy. I mean, many times
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Speaker 3: you will see and I've reviewed literally thousands of police reports,
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Speaker 3: many times you will see sort of the progression of
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Speaker 3: the suspect realizing that they are going to be caught
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Speaker 3: in the lie.
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Speaker 4: So the lie.
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Speaker 3: Starts changing as the interview progresses. Now this one, I
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Speaker 3: don't know, but it appears to be changing according to
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Speaker 3: the officer's knowledge and use of facts with him, and
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Speaker 3: he begins to evolve, the story begins to evolve, hopefully
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Speaker 3: to get him off the hook. But that is very common.
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Speaker 3: That is not unusual at all as we see in
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Speaker 3: these types of cases.
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Speaker 1: And that is where Rachel D. Fisher comes in. Registered nurse,
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Speaker 1: sex Assault Nurse Examiner s a ne expert, witness, private investigator,
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Speaker 1: author of Taking Back the Pen, Forensic Nursing Consulting and Education.
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Speaker 1: You can find her at legal r inconsult dot org. Rachel.
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Speaker 1: That's when I need a rape kit nurse or a
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Speaker 1: doctor that performed the rape kit. But it's usually you guys,
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Speaker 1: the rape kit nurses. I call them. You're a sane
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Speaker 1: sex assault nurse examiner. How can you It's basically a
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Speaker 1: pelvic and for all of youse, I just saw Jackie
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Speaker 1: just like, uh, make an you face. Yeah, nobody wants
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Speaker 1: to go in for a pelvic but a rape kit
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Speaker 1: nurse basically performs a pelvic exam times one hundred. So
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Speaker 1: how can you look at a woman's private parts and
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Speaker 1: help shine a light on whether she's been raped or
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Speaker 1: had consensual sex.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, so it starts with the basics. When that patient
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Speaker 5: comes in after being victimized and they turn to us
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Speaker 5: and tell her story, they have to sign a consent
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Speaker 5: form for us to basically interrogate them, go to those
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Speaker 5: deep moments of traumas bread their legs, poke, prod and
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Speaker 5: penetrate them again. So we're collecting evidence in this rape
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Speaker 5: kit and it's a very vigorous, intense process, but they
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Speaker 5: have to sign consent for us to do that. So
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Speaker 5: the issue here is he sexually assaulted y rapeder without
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Speaker 5: consent and she had to go through that process of
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Speaker 5: penetration by a stranger again because of what he did.
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Speaker 5: And so that process that they go to coming to
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Speaker 5: the hospital is a vulnerable one and it's very invasive.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's going to sign up for that voluntarily, But
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Speaker 1: what would you expect to see. I know, you do
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Speaker 1: a vaginal exam, you do a right combing of the
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Speaker 1: pubic hair to find out if the defendant's hair is
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Speaker 1: there or for any fibers or basically any of it
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Speaker 1: its you can find. You do an anal swab. Who
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Speaker 1: wants to sign up for that? Nobody an oral swab?
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Speaker 1: What would you expect to see in the vaginal or
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Speaker 1: anal exam that would say this woman has been right,
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Speaker 1: this was not consensual.
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Speaker 5: Do we look for any kinds of infection or injury
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Speaker 5: or cares. We photograph them as possible, but we swab
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Speaker 5: for DNA evidence and that is what goes into the
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Speaker 5: race kits. So if they're unconscious of they don't remember,
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Speaker 5: we just swab every area, the anus, the vagina, the
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Speaker 5: outer lits, the mouth, anywhere that could have been touched.
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Speaker 5: We swab and we go inside and we put that
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Speaker 5: swab inside those private areas and we look for pain.
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Speaker 5: So for swobbing, they tell us what hurts, and it's
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Speaker 5: guided by the history of what they remember happened. And
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Speaker 5: we'll take their blood, so we'll an iv in them,
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Speaker 5: take their blood, try to look for any drugs or
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Speaker 5: alcohol that was you, and then we put this all
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Speaker 5: in the kit and hopefully we're able to find DNA
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Speaker 5: from who hurt them. Sometimes there's foign objects inside them.
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Speaker 5: If it was done on the ground or in the woods, depending.
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Speaker 5: We look first things from the crime scene as well
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Speaker 5: on the patient's body.
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Speaker 1: So you can look with your exam into the vagina
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Speaker 1: and rectum and you can actually see tearing, blading, or bruising.
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Speaker 5: Yes it's not always president, but we're able to see
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Speaker 5: that when we put the speculum inside or if you
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Speaker 5: have to put anything into the rectum, you're able to
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Speaker 5: look for the jersey inside their body from what happened
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Speaker 5: to them forcefully.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, I is.
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Speaker 1: I'm heading to Jared Page joining us in the Get
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Speaker 1: Part Daily and Salt Lake, but I want you to
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Speaker 1: hear our friends at crime online dot Com.
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Speaker 6: The alleged assault took place in a dorm room at
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Speaker 6: the University of Utah on August sixteenth, but the victim
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Speaker 6: did not report it right away. The official report was
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Speaker 6: made in February, with university police detective Francisco Chevez investigating
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Speaker 6: the claims. After talking to the alleged victim, Chevez spoke
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Speaker 6: to Ben Smith. At first, Smith denied knowing the young woman.
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Speaker 6: He later changed his official statement, claiming he did know
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Speaker 6: the woman and the two had consensual sex. Smith conceded
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Speaker 6: that the woman was in pain throughout the encounter. University
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Speaker 6: police did not arrest Smith at that time. When they
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Speaker 6: returned a few days later with a restraining owner, Smith
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Speaker 6: had packed his bags and left.
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Speaker 1: Okay, there's so many things wrong with what I just heard.
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Speaker 1: Not that they're factually incorrect, they're just wrong. His denying
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Speaker 1: that he knew the woman had ever met her, then
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Speaker 1: oh yeah, I did meet her. Did you rape or
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Speaker 1: know that was consensual? How can you go from I've
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Speaker 1: never met her to oh, yeah, we had consensual sex? Guys,
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Speaker 1: is a lot more than I can play in sound bites.
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Speaker 1: I'm going to go straight out to Jared Page joining
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Speaker 1: us Get Park Daily in Salt Lake City, who's been
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Speaker 1: on the case from the very very beginning. First of all, Jared,
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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I know a little
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Speaker 1: bit about this guy's background. Jared Page, take a listen
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Speaker 1: to ourcut one crimeonline dot Com.
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Speaker 6: After graduation, Smith announces he will attend the University of
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Speaker 6: Utah in Salt Lake City in the fall to pursue
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Speaker 6: a bachelor's degree in marketing. As a freshman member of
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Speaker 6: the university's diving team, Smith wins the men's competition at
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Speaker 6: the Air Force Diving Invitational. Smith finished up his freshman
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Speaker 6: year for the University of Utah diving team, coming in
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Speaker 6: second in platform diving at the PAC twelve Diving Championship.
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Speaker 1: Wow. So this guy, the alleged rapist, is a superstar Jared.
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Speaker 7: Yes, by all accounts, he was a rising star, rising
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Speaker 7: diver on the University of Utah men's swimming and diving
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Speaker 7: team and had a strong freshman season and then came
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Speaker 7: back this incident there. The soptomore season started in September,
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Speaker 7: where this alleged indident alleged date took place in August
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Speaker 7: or just before that. And again, as as you noted,
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Speaker 7: the woman did not come forward immediately, and he continued
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Speaker 7: to compete and competed as recently as February tenth. So again, yeah,
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Speaker 7: this was an athlete who was having a really successful
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Speaker 7: career at the University of Utah.
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Speaker 1: I mean, for petty Psyche wins right off the bat,
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Speaker 1: he wins the men's competition at the Air Force Diving Invitational.
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Speaker 1: Then he finished our freshman year coming in second in
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Speaker 1: platform diving at the PAC twelve Diving Championship. That's no
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Speaker 1: small thing. I mean, he is elite amongst the elite
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Speaker 1: in the university system, and when you hear about the
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Speaker 1: way they met, it's almost as if it's out of
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Speaker 1: a rom com, a romantic comedy. Take a listen to this.
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Speaker 6: After a strong finish at the PAC twelve Diving Championship
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Speaker 6: as a freshman, nineteen year old Ben Smith is ready
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Speaker 6: to take on his sophomore year at the University of Utah,
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Speaker 6: and on August thirteenth, Ben smith sophomore campaign gets off
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Speaker 6: to a promising start, finishing third in a dive meat.
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Speaker 6: Three days later, August sixteenth, walking with a group of
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Speaker 6: friends through a common area, he meets a young woman
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Speaker 6: reading a book. After a brief conversation, they exchanged contact
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Speaker 6: information and go their separate ways. Later that afternoon, Ben
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Speaker 6: Smith reaches out to the young woman.
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Speaker 1: I'm just thinking this through. I want to go to
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Speaker 1: Scott Johnson joining US forensic Psychologists, joining US out of
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Speaker 1: Minnesota specializing in sex predators. Also professor Florida Gulf Coast University,
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Speaker 1: and you can find him at Forensic Consultation. Scott, thank
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Speaker 1: you for being with us. You know, when I heard
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Speaker 1: about how the rape suspect met the alleged victim, it
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Speaker 1: reminded me. Let's see, it's a Meg Ryan Tom Hanks movie.
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Speaker 1: Oh wait, it's You've Got Mail. It's You've Got Mail.
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Speaker 1: And she owns a bookstore and he owns a bookstore,
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Speaker 1: and he always is like spying on her in a
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Speaker 1: loving and caring way, and she's always sitting there reading
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Speaker 1: a book. And so it's my understanding, Scott Johnson, that
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Speaker 1: he's walking with a group of friends, he sees her
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Speaker 1: reading a book. He goes over and they talk for
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Speaker 1: a while in exchange numbers. That's the meet cute, the
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Speaker 1: setup for a rom com, as they call it. Now
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Speaker 1: my question to you, Scott Johnson, is in a way
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Speaker 1: the way that they met without in that lower her
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Speaker 1: her barriers. I mean, it just seems so normal and
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Speaker 1: friendly and kind of romantic. It's not like he's trying
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Speaker 1: to pick her up at a bar and immediately make
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Speaker 1: out with her. It sounds so innocuous, which I think
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Speaker 1: would lower her inhibitions and lower her protective nature.
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Speaker 7: Oh absolutely.
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Speaker 8: And his narcissism with this, I think demonstrates that he's
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Speaker 8: a predator. He knows how to groom, he knows how
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Speaker 8: to schmooze. He can take his time to do what
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Speaker 8: he wants to do, to get the victim in a
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Speaker 8: vulnerable situation to, as you say, let her guard down,
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Speaker 8: feel trustworthy.
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Speaker 9: Right.
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Speaker 8: And so he knows what he's doing, but he's very
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Speaker 8: good at it and very good at putting her at ease.
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Speaker 8: And that's certainly psychopathic traits, you know.
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Speaker 1: Donna Kelly. Many of the rape victims that I've represented
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Speaker 1: and worked with, they feel like it's somehow their fault. Oh,
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Speaker 1: I shouldn't have been at this bar. I shouldn't have
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Speaker 1: been out so late, I shouldn't have been wearing a
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Speaker 1: short dress. I shouldn't have been jogging and tied sent
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Speaker 1: a workout, braw all. That's complete and total bs. It
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Speaker 1: is not the rape victim's fault. Ever. This woman was
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Speaker 1: sitting there, minding her own business, reading a book, but somehow,
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Speaker 1: some way, I guarantee you, on some level, she thought, wow,
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Speaker 1: I should have fill in the blank.
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Speaker 10: Right.
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Speaker 3: I've worked with probably about three thousand victims over my career,
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Speaker 3: and I can tell you that in almost every case
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Speaker 3: there is some of that going on with all the victims.
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Speaker 3: And my understanding from talking to experts about this sort
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Speaker 3: of feeling, this sort of response is that it's your way,
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Speaker 3: your brain's weigh of protecting for the next time. In
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Speaker 3: other words, you want to feel safe. You want to
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Speaker 3: feel like you're safe in the world. And so what
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Speaker 3: you do is you go back and you analyze and
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Speaker 3: reanalyze what's happened, and you think of ways that you
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Speaker 3: can be safe for the next time. And so that
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Speaker 3: kind of response is very common on the behalf of
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Speaker 3: sexual assault victims. They need to be safe and feel
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Speaker 3: safe for the future, and that's their attempt to do that.
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Speaker 5: You know, I think it's really in this case, right,
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Speaker 5: go ahead, Yes, so is briefly, so she was just
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Speaker 5: talking about kind of fight fly their free response, and
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Speaker 5: so fight flight or freeze is what trauma victims typically do.
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Speaker 5: And everybody always asks, well, why didn't she just run?
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Speaker 5: Why didn't she leave? And then the victims blame themselves. Well,
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Speaker 5: if you hold it out what society holds, So why.
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Speaker 7: Didn't she run?
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Speaker 5: You look at him and you say, well, why did
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Speaker 5: he run from this scenario? So use that same predicate
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Speaker 5: and why did he run away from it?
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Speaker 1: That's a really good art argument.
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Speaker 8: What about it, Scott, Well, I was just going to say, also,
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Speaker 8: you know, Both of these experts are right on queue
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Speaker 8: here with why victims blame themselves. And also the perpetrator
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Speaker 8: was blaming her. He was minimizing throughout, and he was saying,
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Speaker 8: I'm just going to do this, I'm just going to
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Speaker 8: do that, and so he's putting her in a precarious
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Speaker 8: spot where he's catching her off guard, and therefore she
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Speaker 8: has that delayed reaction. But regardless of how she reacts,
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Speaker 8: things are still going to happen. So he minimizes what
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Speaker 8: he's doing, justifies what he's doing. Oh, it's just a
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Speaker 8: little bit, or it's just.
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Speaker 1: This, you know what. You're all three, so right. Have
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Speaker 1: you ever heard the phrase wolf in sheep's clothing? Well,
17:42
Speaker 1: listen to our friends at crime Online.
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Speaker 4: Nineteen year old sophomore Ben Smith messages the young woman
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Speaker 4: he met in the dorm common area. He asks where
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Speaker 4: she is and where her roommates are. Innocently enough, she
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Speaker 4: replies her friends are at an on campus event and
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Speaker 4: she is alone in her dorm room. Minutes after he
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Speaker 4: finds out she is alone, Ben Smith is at her door.
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Speaker 4: After some small talk, Ben suggests that to play a
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Speaker 4: game of truth or dare. Smith reportedly starts kissing her
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Speaker 4: and asking her about her sexual history. Smith pushes her
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Speaker 4: shoulders to lay her down on the floor. The woman
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Speaker 4: pushes Smith off of her and tells him quote she
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Speaker 4: does not want to do that and more. Even though
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Speaker 4: the young woman tells Ben Smith she does not want
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Speaker 4: to have sex, the teen swimmer reportedly ignores her, takes
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Speaker 4: off his shirt and pants, and grabs the woman by
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Speaker 4: the back of her head. According to an arrest warrant,
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Speaker 4: the young woman tried to push back up, but he
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Speaker 4: held her head down. She pushed Smith again in the
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Speaker 4: chest and told him no, but Smith replied, okay, fine,
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Speaker 4: Then he allegedly climbs on top of her, continuing the assault.
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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Me With Me is Jason Jensen, out
19:05
Speaker 1: of Salt Lake City, private investigator, owner of Jensen Private Investigations,
19:10
Speaker 1: co founder Cold Case Coalition, and you can find him
19:13
Speaker 1: at Jensen Private Investigations dot com. Jason, thank you for
19:17
Speaker 1: being with us in this case. We see in increments,
19:22
Speaker 1: increments leading up to a full blown sex attack according
19:27
Speaker 1: to this victim. And you know it starts off with
19:33
Speaker 1: the meat cute okay. Then he comes over, then he
19:37
Speaker 1: finds out she's alone. Then there's the truth or dare.
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Speaker 1: Then there's the kissing, and then there's the grabbing by
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Speaker 1: the shoulders. I mean it leads up to a full
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Speaker 1: blown brutal rape. Very often in court. Some jurisdictions have
19:56
Speaker 1: required corroboration, and I'm putting air quotes around that, in
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Speaker 1: other words, bruises, tears, broken bones, ripped clothing and the course.
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Speaker 1: A lot of courts didn't like that. A lot of
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Speaker 1: prosecutors like me, didn't like that because, as in this case,
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Speaker 1: it was so incremental. You don't have a broken jaw
20:20
Speaker 1: or a black eye. It's like, you know, you you
20:24
Speaker 1: slowly turn up the temperature and the lobster doesn't even
20:27
Speaker 1: know it's dying. All right, it's too late. By the
20:30
Speaker 1: time it gets hot, it's boiled. So now in many
20:35
Speaker 1: jurisdictions there is no longer that requirement of physical corroboration
20:39
Speaker 1: for a rape. To corroborate a rape victims story, and
20:42
Speaker 1: think about it, no other you say you got arm robbed,
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Speaker 1: does there have to be corroboration?
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Speaker 10: No?
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Speaker 1: Do when your car gets stolen, do you have to
20:53
Speaker 1: corroborate your story?
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Speaker 11: No?
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Speaker 1: Only in rape cases is was that required. And it
20:58
Speaker 1: got to a point where here's what you use, anything
21:02
Speaker 1: like I don't know the car mileage, the position of
21:09
Speaker 1: the seats in the car, him loose in the bottom
21:15
Speaker 1: of the store. I mean, you could use anything, a
21:17
Speaker 1: button being torn off, anything for corroboration, until most juristications
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Speaker 1: got rid of that requirement. But rape is still rape,
21:26
Speaker 1: whether you're beaten to a pulp or not.
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Speaker 11: Correct, Nancy, I mean, you look at the information that
21:33
Speaker 11: was filed. The particulars are pretty well outlined from the
21:38
Speaker 11: detective the progression of his interview, and you're right, there
21:42
Speaker 11: is no evidence of an aggravated assault in the commission
21:46
Speaker 11: of this crime, and it shows that he lured her
21:50
Speaker 11: in and easter as he progressed step by step.
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Speaker 1: You know another thing, Jared Page, You know for many
21:57
Speaker 1: many years, guys are not allowed email dorms. I guess
22:01
Speaker 1: that's all over.
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Speaker 7: Yeah, that is that is true. And uh, you know,
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Speaker 7: and again as you mentioned, whether it's whether it's a
22:09
Speaker 7: a dorm room, is is is your residence, it's a
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Speaker 7: place where you live, and you know it's it's It
22:16
Speaker 7: was a situation where that relationship really went quickly and
22:22
Speaker 7: found out that she was going to be alone in
22:24
Speaker 7: her dorm room and took advantage of that. And and unfortunately,
22:29
Speaker 7: you know, you would hope that your college students when
22:32
Speaker 7: you're going to school, that you're safe in your dorm room.
22:35
Speaker 7: I mean that should be a place that you consider
22:37
Speaker 7: home and a place of safety.
22:39
Speaker 1: Guys, I want you to hear more of what we
22:41
Speaker 1: uncovered during the investigation. Jack Let's play our cut eight
22:46
Speaker 1: our friends at crime Online.
22:48
Speaker 4: During his interview with Detective Chavez, Smith gave the officer
22:52
Speaker 4: the names of two of his friends to talk to
22:54
Speaker 4: and find out about his character. Smith assumed his friends
22:57
Speaker 4: would paint a flattering picture, but instead they provided insight
23:01
Speaker 4: into a possible sexual predator. The first friend said that
23:04
Speaker 4: Smith keeps a list of women he has sex with
23:07
Speaker 4: and shares the list with people to show off and
23:10
Speaker 4: to quote feed his ego. The other friend told police
23:13
Speaker 4: that Smith brags about the number of women he's had
23:16
Speaker 4: sex with.
23:16
Speaker 1: Okay, well, that didn't help out very much to Jared
23:19
Speaker 1: Page joining us in the get part daily there in
23:22
Speaker 1: Salt Lake City. So to try to show what a
23:24
Speaker 1: great guy he is, the suspect, Benjamin is it Smith
23:30
Speaker 1: or Smith?
23:31
Speaker 7: I believe it is just Smith because it's spelled with
23:33
Speaker 7: a why it is still with the y.
23:35
Speaker 11: Yes?
23:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, Benjamin Smith says, Hey, I'm a great guy. Here
23:40
Speaker 1: are two of my friends. Ask them. I'm really surprised
23:43
Speaker 1: the investigators even asked them, but they did. They go
23:47
Speaker 1: and ask them for a glowing recommendation to Jared Page
23:50
Speaker 1: and they get the exact opposite.
23:51
Speaker 7: Yeah, if I'm interesting too that his character would some
23:54
Speaker 7: of the ones that kind of added him as being
23:58
Speaker 7: somebody who bragged about it conquests and kept a list
24:01
Speaker 7: and kind of that you know, fraternity like atmosphere that
24:07
Speaker 7: you know that I know a lot of the college
24:10
Speaker 7: athletic programs are not are trying to keep out of
24:14
Speaker 7: their locker rooms and this day and for certainly these days,
24:18
Speaker 7: and I think the university does a good job of that.
24:21
Speaker 7: But yeah, it's his his own character. Witnesses let people
24:27
Speaker 7: know that this was this guy, this is what he does.
24:29
Speaker 7: And he told police he also bragged about being the
24:34
Speaker 7: first time for a lot of women, how he enjoyed that.
24:37
Speaker 1: What why Manute? What did you just say?
24:40
Speaker 7: Yeah? I just noticed in the police documents that we
24:45
Speaker 7: obtained during the interview, he had said that he often
24:49
Speaker 7: has been first time for women, and that's one of
24:54
Speaker 7: the things that he likes as part of a conquest,
24:56
Speaker 7: is to try to be their first.
24:58
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm just letting that so can for one moment.
25:01
Speaker 1: You know what, I really don't know who to go
25:04
Speaker 1: to on this one, Dona Kelly.
25:08
Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am.
25:09
Speaker 1: You know that's uh, that's a first degree felony a
25:14
Speaker 1: hole right there. I don't guess you've ever prosecuted one
25:17
Speaker 1: of those, have you.
25:18
Speaker 3: I have had some experience with that, yes, And it
25:22
Speaker 3: really shows how he very clearly how he views women
25:26
Speaker 3: as objects for his youth and discarding it really shows
25:32
Speaker 3: that he doesn't think of them as real people. He
25:35
Speaker 3: thinks very black and white. They exist for his pleasure.
25:39
Speaker 3: And that was a stunning admission on his part and
25:45
Speaker 3: also really interesting that he has very little self awareness.
25:50
Speaker 3: You know, he believes that the names that he gives
25:54
Speaker 3: the police officers are going to, you know, have this
25:56
Speaker 3: glowing image of him, when that was not did all
26:00
Speaker 3: the case, and so he has very little interest any
26:06
Speaker 3: self awareness, and which is very typical of a creditor.
26:13
Speaker 1: Scott Johnson for asic psychologist. What is she saying about
26:16
Speaker 1: self awareness as it relates to this guy, Benjamin Dennis
26:21
Speaker 1: Kai Smith.
26:22
Speaker 8: Well, I think again it goes back to the psychopathic
26:25
Speaker 8: traits of narcissism and really believing that whatever he does
26:29
Speaker 8: is right, is in his mind delusionally it is okay
26:33
Speaker 8: to do what he did.
26:34
Speaker 1: List and what does he do? Put thee beside the
26:37
Speaker 1: ones that were once sub verging for he got hold
26:39
Speaker 1: of him, you know what, you kind of and I
26:41
Speaker 1: think it was you, Scott Johnson. But guys correct me
26:44
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong. That said the way he would say,
26:48
Speaker 1: oh just a little bit, just a little bit, just
26:51
Speaker 1: a little bit, you know what, that's really airbrushing. What happened?
26:55
Speaker 1: She victim pushed Smith off her and said she didn't
26:59
Speaker 1: want to do that, says the warrant. He ignores her,
27:03
Speaker 1: removing his shirt, unclipping her bra then took off his pants,
27:07
Speaker 1: grabbed her by the back of the head, forced her
27:09
Speaker 1: to give him oral sex. She tried to push back,
27:13
Speaker 1: but he forced her head down. According to the warrant,
27:17
Speaker 1: she pushed Smith's chest and was able to stop. She
27:21
Speaker 1: shook her head indicating no, and he replied, okay, fine,
27:26
Speaker 1: I'm reading from the warrant. I'm not just making this up.
27:29
Speaker 1: He then after he said okay, fine, clombs on top
27:33
Speaker 1: of her, takes off her underwear, saying everything's fine, and
27:38
Speaker 1: ignoring her objections that she did not want to have
27:42
Speaker 1: sex with him, He says, what is this Something is
27:45
Speaker 1: supposed to make her feel better? Quote I won't go
27:47
Speaker 1: all the way in just a little bit. For a minute,
27:52
Speaker 1: I won't go all the way in just a little bit.
27:54
Speaker 1: The warrant states Smith then forced himself on her. In
27:58
Speaker 1: other words, he did go quote all the way in.
28:01
Speaker 1: When he was nearing ejaculation, he asked if he could
28:04
Speaker 1: ejaculate in her mouth. She said no, so he ejaculated
28:08
Speaker 1: on her stomach and then wait for it, wipe the
28:13
Speaker 1: ejaculate with his fingers and put it in her mouth.
28:18
Speaker 1: After denying he knew her, he admitted he did know her,
28:21
Speaker 1: they did have sex, and that he knew she was
28:23
Speaker 1: in pain throughout. Now, can I tell you the first
28:27
Speaker 1: time I had to let loose his string of that
28:30
Speaker 1: kind of talk, with every curse word I have ever
28:33
Speaker 1: known to a jury, I actually had to practice. I
28:35
Speaker 1: can hardly say it all. But you know what, if
28:38
Speaker 1: you want to put somebody in jail, you got to
28:43
Speaker 1: have Let me just say the backbone to say it
28:47
Speaker 1: out loud. Now, just to top it all off, he says, hey,
28:53
Speaker 1: listen to my good friends. He'll tell you what a
28:54
Speaker 1: great guy I am. And they really unload the truth
28:58
Speaker 1: on this guy. But I want you to hear what happens.
29:02
Speaker 1: Then our cut ten are friends a crime online.
29:07
Speaker 12: The alleged assault took place on August sixteenth, but was
29:11
Speaker 12: not reported until February. On February sixteenth, the University of
29:15
Speaker 12: Utah was made aware of the allegations when detectives went
29:19
Speaker 12: to his room to serve a restraining order. Smith's roommate
29:22
Speaker 12: informed the detectives that Smith had moved out.
29:25
Speaker 1: Moved out, Okay, now take a listen to our cut
29:29
Speaker 1: seven our friends at Fox thirteen.
29:33
Speaker 2: Police say two friends of Smith told them he keeps
29:35
Speaker 2: a list of people he's had sex with to brag about.
29:38
Speaker 2: Police say soon after being interviewed, Smith moved out of
29:41
Speaker 2: his dorm and returned to Canada. There is now a
29:44
Speaker 2: warrant out for his arrest. Utah Athletics says they learned
29:47
Speaker 2: of the allegation on February sixteenth.
29:49
Speaker 1: Big question to Jared Page Get Part Daily, why did
29:55
Speaker 1: they interview him? They knew the victim's complaint at the time,
29:59
Speaker 1: and then they let him go.
30:01
Speaker 7: Well, yeah, I am not so sure. The timing the
30:04
Speaker 7: police reports don't aren't great with the dates of when
30:07
Speaker 7: the report came in, when he was interviewed, how many
30:10
Speaker 7: many days took place. But yeah, I guess, I guess
30:14
Speaker 7: when they did interview him. He was not detained at
30:17
Speaker 7: that time because he was allowed to go back to
30:19
Speaker 7: his dormitory and clear out and head home to Canada.
30:35
Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace IRV Brandt joining me, Senior Inspector,
30:44
Speaker 1: US Marshall Service International Investigations, Chief Inspector DOJ International Affairs
30:51
Speaker 1: as Department of Justice, has worked in embassies all around
30:55
Speaker 1: the world. Author of a brand new book, I Believe
30:59
Speaker 1: his eight solo shot Curse the Bluestone on Amazon Earth.
31:05
Speaker 1: They hear the victims complaints, and yes, she didn't come
31:09
Speaker 1: forward immediately, not unusual. She did come forward. She told
31:14
Speaker 1: them what happened. They go interview him, they catch him
31:17
Speaker 1: in a lie, and they let him go when they
31:21
Speaker 1: go back to issue the arrest. Want he quote moved
31:24
Speaker 1: out in other words, fled to Canada, helped me out?
31:28
Speaker 1: Or why didn't they arrest him immediately, Nancy.
31:32
Speaker 9: On the face of it, you would it would seem
31:35
Speaker 9: there was probable cause for the arrest just from the
31:39
Speaker 9: interview and from the victim's statement, But the investigators chose
31:45
Speaker 9: to take his statement and continue the investigation, and he
31:49
Speaker 9: fled to Canada, which is not going to help him.
31:54
Speaker 9: The US and Canadian authorities have a great working relationship,
31:59
Speaker 9: whether it's the Royal Canadian Mounted Police for the Vancouver Police,
32:04
Speaker 9: and there's an extradition treaty, a strong extradition treaty and
32:08
Speaker 9: police where we can extradite Canadian citizens. So he's not
32:14
Speaker 9: going to escape justice by any means.
32:16
Speaker 1: I can't wait to tell a Jerry about him fleeing
32:18
Speaker 1: to Canada. Guys, take a listen to our cut nine
32:20
Speaker 1: crime online.
32:21
Speaker 12: As soon as Ben Smith found out he was the
32:24
Speaker 12: subject of a sexual assault investigation, he packed his bags
32:27
Speaker 12: and headed for Canada. A charging document mentioned Smith's time
32:31
Speaker 12: on the university's diving team, quote Smith left school and
32:35
Speaker 12: returned to Canada. Smith was a member of the University
32:38
Speaker 12: of Utah's diving team, and, according to the University of
32:42
Speaker 12: Utah records, was on scholarship. It says Smith's flight from
32:46
Speaker 12: the jurisdiction only after learning of an investigation into his
32:49
Speaker 12: actions while enrolled in college classes as a student athlete
32:53
Speaker 12: on scholarship, demonstrates the strong likelihood that he will not
32:57
Speaker 12: submit to the court's jurisdiction and, if released on bail,
33:01
Speaker 12: will flee again. The document states, the charging documents request
33:05
Speaker 12: that Smith be held on no bail if he is detained.
33:09
Speaker 1: So what is the easiest way for someone to get
33:13
Speaker 1: in to Canada to flee the jurisdiction? And how many
33:19
Speaker 1: more times will athletes college athletes get a slap on
33:24
Speaker 1: the wrist for a full on rate? Does the name
33:30
Speaker 1: brock Turner ring a bell? Take a listen to our
33:33
Speaker 1: friend Matt and Gutman ABC and our cut fourteen.
33:36
Speaker 13: The public outcrank still soaring tonight over a six month
33:39
Speaker 13: sentence slapped on former Stanford University freshmen Brock Turner or
33:44
Speaker 13: sexually assaulting a twenty two year old woman while she
33:47
Speaker 13: lay unconscious next to a dumpster outside this front house
33:51
Speaker 13: last year.
33:51
Speaker 2: The judge is basically saying, you know, it doesn't matter
33:53
Speaker 2: what your past actions were, just don't do it again.
33:56
Speaker 1: I don't think six months was nearly enough. Yeah, I
33:58
Speaker 1: would agree with that. Take a listen to our friends
34:00
Speaker 1: at NBC cut fifteen.
34:02
Speaker 10: With a hard push of the jailhouse door, former Stanford
34:06
Speaker 10: swimmer brought Turner was met by a crush of cameras.
34:09
Speaker 1: Are you thinking about?
34:10
Speaker 10: He spent only ninety days in jail for sexual assault?
34:14
Speaker 9: Are you?
34:16
Speaker 10: NBC News was given exclusive access to evidence in Turner's case.
34:20
Speaker 10: File pictures show him with a torn shirt hours after
34:23
Speaker 10: he was tackled by students who saw him on top
34:25
Speaker 10: of an unconscious female behind a dumpster on Stanford's campus.
34:29
Speaker 10: Interrogation tapes taken after his arrest showed a calm Turner
34:33
Speaker 10: responding to questions from a detective, saying, my intentions were
34:37
Speaker 10: not to try and rape a girl without her consent.
34:39
Speaker 10: I was just trying to hook up with a girl.
34:41
Speaker 10: When pressing Turner about the victim, the detective asks, if
34:44
Speaker 10: you saw her again, would you recognize her? Turner responds
34:48
Speaker 10: probably not.
34:50
Speaker 1: And then, of course in our cut twenty two from CBS,
34:55
Speaker 1: how many college football stars gap rape charges? Take a listen.
35:03
Speaker 14: The Ohio State University football players a Mere Reap and
35:07
Speaker 14: Joson Went were booked into this Columbus jail late last
35:10
Speaker 14: night after turning themselves in. The criminal complaint alleges that
35:14
Speaker 14: on February fourth, a nineteen year old woman was having
35:17
Speaker 14: consensual sex with Reap when she stopped, stating she did
35:21
Speaker 14: not want to continue. Detectives say went then enter the
35:24
Speaker 14: room and Reap, after asking if Wynt could join, pushed
35:28
Speaker 14: her down by the neck, and the two men allegedly
35:30
Speaker 14: raped her. Afterward, the report says, Reepe told the victim
35:34
Speaker 14: to say the incident was consensual on a video as
35:37
Speaker 14: he was laughing and she was crying.
35:40
Speaker 1: Of course, many football supporters claimed the players should not
35:46
Speaker 1: be in jail and that they were wrongly accused. So
35:51
Speaker 1: Jared Page joining us Erv Brandt, Rachel Fisher, Jason Jensen,
35:56
Speaker 1: Scott Johnson, Donna Kelly, I want to hear your thought
36:00
Speaker 1: of what should happen now. But Jason Jensen joining us
36:04
Speaker 1: Utah private investigator, What do you make of the way
36:08
Speaker 1: the investigation has unfolded to this juncture.
36:11
Speaker 11: Well, Nancy, it really does look like there was a
36:14
Speaker 11: textbook approach by the detective from the university police department.
36:21
Speaker 11: And I'm not surprised, I mean, after what happened to
36:25
Speaker 11: star athlete Lauren McCluskey in twenty eighteen, it costs the
36:30
Speaker 11: university thirteen point five million dollars after she was murdered
36:34
Speaker 11: by her ex boyfriend. In spite of repeated the claims
36:41
Speaker 11: of worry and complaints about her ex boyfriend's behavior to
36:45
Speaker 11: the administration and to the police department, nothing was done.
36:49
Speaker 1: Guys, This student athlete Benjamin Smith wanted on rape, forcible sodomy,
36:56
Speaker 1: forcible sex abuse goes on the lamb. What do you think,
37:02
Speaker 1: to everyone on the panel, and to you, specifically, Scott Johnson,
37:09
Speaker 1: why is it so difficult for university administrators to accept
37:14
Speaker 1: that athletes commit rape just like all other rapists.
37:19
Speaker 8: I mean, I think part of that is the idea that,
37:22
Speaker 8: you know, people lie, and somehow we still blame victims
37:25
Speaker 8: and we still hold victims accountable for so much of
37:28
Speaker 8: what happens despite the perpetrator premeditatingly engaging in violent behavior.
37:35
Speaker 8: And the second piece, of course, is the liability aspect.
37:38
Speaker 8: If we have someone on our campus that's committing violent acts,
37:43
Speaker 8: if we didn't act quick enough, obviously we're liable. But
37:48
Speaker 8: if we act too quick and it turns out not
37:50
Speaker 8: to be true, then whose rights did we violate? When
37:53
Speaker 8: in fact they should be saying, bottom line as we
37:56
Speaker 8: protect the campus first and let the investigation fall where
37:59
Speaker 8: it falls.
38:00
Speaker 1: To Jared Page joining us Skip Part daily in Salt
38:03
Speaker 1: Lake City. Do we have any idea of where he's
38:06
Speaker 1: been hiding out in Canada?
38:08
Speaker 7: Well, he's he is from British Columbia, and so I
38:13
Speaker 7: know that's where. That's where he's listed in the charges
38:18
Speaker 7: and it's believed to be fled from and University of
38:22
Speaker 7: Utah police working with the private investigator, that's where they
38:25
Speaker 7: located him. Found that he was in Canada. The details
38:28
Speaker 7: about exactly where he was hiding and has been hiding,
38:32
Speaker 7: but it was confirmed that he did across the border
38:35
Speaker 7: and again he's he's home there.
38:37
Speaker 1: Jared Page is joining us SKIP Part daily. We're learning
38:40
Speaker 1: as we go to air that he has been returned
38:44
Speaker 1: to the US or he is returning to the U
38:47
Speaker 1: S What the US? What do you know?
38:49
Speaker 7: That's correct? So, according to Salt Lake County District Attorney's office,
38:54
Speaker 7: he was arrested. The location and circumstances of that or
38:59
Speaker 7: are unconfirmed to me. Media reports have reported that he
39:03
Speaker 7: was arrested in Seattle, the circumstances of which whether he
39:08
Speaker 7: was caught when he was coming back across the border,
39:11
Speaker 7: or exactly what took place, I do not have that.
39:14
Speaker 7: We have reached out for more information, but we do
39:16
Speaker 7: know that he is in police custody now, so he
39:18
Speaker 7: is no longer hidden from police.
39:22
Speaker 1: We wait as justice un false. Goodbye for him