Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / #HURDLEMOMENT: An Important Conversation On Runner Safety With Jessie Zapo

Transcript

#HURDLEMOMENT: An Important Conversation On Runner Safety With Jessie Zapo · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

0:00
Speaker 1: We're tired of women talking to women about being harassed
0:05
Speaker 1: about all of the things we deal with because we
0:09
Speaker 1: know already and the conversation now needs to push out
0:14
Speaker 1: beyond that, in particular our male counterparts.
0:32
Speaker 2: What is shaken? Emilyavadi?
0:35
Speaker 3: Here, you are listening to another installment of Hurdle Moment
0:40
Speaker 3: from Hurdle.
0:41
Speaker 2: A Willness focus podcast.
0:43
Speaker 3: Reconnect with everyone from your favorite athletes to top experts
0:46
Speaker 3: and industry CEOs about their highest hies, toughest moments, and
0:50
Speaker 3: everything in between. We all go through hurdles in life,
0:54
Speaker 3: and my goal through these discussions is to empower you
0:56
Speaker 3: to better navigate yours and move with intention so that
1:00
Speaker 3: you can stride towards your own big potential and of
1:03
Speaker 3: course have some fun along the way. For today's episode,
1:08
Speaker 3: I am bringing in my girl, Jesse Zappo. She is
1:12
Speaker 3: a performance coach for Adidas Runners as well as the
1:16
Speaker 3: founder of Girls Run NYC and I would be remiss
1:22
Speaker 3: if I didn't say that right off the bat. I
1:26
Speaker 3: hate how relevant the topic of our conversation is today.
1:31
Speaker 2: I had Jesse.
1:32
Speaker 3: Come into the studio to record a couple of months ago,
1:37
Speaker 3: shortly after we sat down for a forum panel discussion
1:43
Speaker 3: on runner safety here in New York. I had Jesse
1:46
Speaker 3: come in. We chatted one on one and as this
1:50
Speaker 3: episode was slated to run this week. As I was
1:53
Speaker 3: editing this episode, I caught the news that a twenty
1:56
Speaker 3: six year old woman was shot during her run on
2:02
Speaker 3: Monday night, January thirtieth in Nashville, Tennessee. And I just
2:07
Speaker 3: sat here at my desk beside myself because it's like,
2:12
Speaker 3: you want to ask, like, when is this going to stop?
2:14
Speaker 3: And the answer is there is no answer. When we
2:19
Speaker 3: had the conversation about runner safety back in twenty twenty two,
2:24
Speaker 3: it was shortly after the murder of Liza Fletcher, and Liza,
2:30
Speaker 3: as we say in this conversation, was not the first
2:33
Speaker 3: person to lose her life on a run and certainly
2:38
Speaker 3: not the last. And so in today's conversation, as I said,
2:43
Speaker 3: a little too relevant this week, we talk about a
2:48
Speaker 3: lot of things when it comes to runner safety. We
2:49
Speaker 3: talk about how the two of us as New Yorkers
2:53
Speaker 3: feel about running right now, both alone and in groups.
2:57
Speaker 3: We chat about how you can be more safe on
3:02
Speaker 3: the run and maybe tools that the both of us
3:04
Speaker 3: are using. We also address the topic of allyship and
3:09
Speaker 3: what it can look like for people to come together,
3:12
Speaker 3: regardless of gender, women, men, non binary folks coming together
3:17
Speaker 3: to show up for one another on the run to
3:20
Speaker 3: make our communities safer. It's a timely discussion, It's an
3:25
Speaker 3: important discussion, and I'm so grateful for Jesse's time and
3:29
Speaker 3: truly insightful takes on how we can take care of
3:34
Speaker 3: one another on the run. Make sure you're following along
3:37
Speaker 3: with Hurdle over on social It's at Hurdle Podcast. I
3:39
Speaker 3: am over at Emily a body. If you want to
3:42
Speaker 3: chime in on this, if you have a listener question
3:44
Speaker 3: that you want to share, I'm all ears. The link
3:47
Speaker 3: to leave me a voice message and share a question
3:50
Speaker 3: is in the show notes. Also of note, I'll be
3:53
Speaker 3: hosting another panel discussion on runner safety the week of
3:57
Speaker 3: LA Marathon on March fifteenth. More details to come, but
4:00
Speaker 3: if your local save the date. And with that, let's
4:03
Speaker 3: get to it. Let's get to hurtling Today, I'm sitting
4:13
Speaker 3: down with Jesse Zappo.
4:14
Speaker 2: How are you doing?
4:14
Speaker 1: I'm doing well.
4:15
Speaker 2: Thank you.
4:17
Speaker 3: Your voice sounds so nice on podcast. Has anyone ever
4:21
Speaker 3: told you have a nice podcast voice?
4:24
Speaker 1: Actually no, but I send voice notes to people and
4:27
Speaker 1: people like that, so.
4:28
Speaker 3: Oh see, okay, well, Jesse, Jesse is your full last name, Zappo.
4:35
Speaker 1: It is not so Zappo is my dad's nickname. It
4:39
Speaker 1: became kind of a family nickname. My childhood name is Jesse.
4:45
Speaker 1: When I got into my first career as an art therapist,
4:50
Speaker 1: everyone knew me as Jessica Zappo Technie, which is my
4:54
Speaker 1: full name. And then my little sister said, I'm going
4:57
Speaker 1: to make you a Facebook account. You should get on Facebook,
5:01
Speaker 1: and I said, okay, but I don't want my professional
5:05
Speaker 1: folks to find me on Facebook. I want to keep
5:07
Speaker 1: it separate. So I was like, let me use my
5:08
Speaker 1: childhood nickname, Jesse Zappo. And then that's where the running
5:12
Speaker 1: community found me and knew me as Jesse.
5:16
Speaker 3: Well, I'm glad to have you, whether we go full
5:19
Speaker 3: last name or partial last name. We are here today
5:23
Speaker 3: to talk or continue our conversation on runner safety, you know,
5:28
Speaker 3: for those of you that maybe out of the loop.
5:30
Speaker 3: I hosted an event over New York City Marathon weekend
5:34
Speaker 3: and Jesse was a part of that dialogue and we
5:39
Speaker 3: chatted on runner safety, especially in the wake of events
5:44
Speaker 3: that have happened recently. Jesse herself is the Adidas Runners
5:48
Speaker 3: Performance coach and captain and also the founder of an
5:52
Speaker 3: organization here called Girls Run NYC. And So, because so
5:57
Speaker 3: many of you reached out to me and said that
5:59
Speaker 3: you wished that you could have been a part of
6:01
Speaker 3: that conversation or listened in on that conversation, I asked
6:05
Speaker 3: Jesse if she would do me the honor of joining
6:07
Speaker 3: me in the studio so we could kind of rap
6:10
Speaker 3: about it and talk about some of our takeaways, but
6:12
Speaker 3: also bring forth some of that information. I'd love it
6:16
Speaker 3: if you could give the hurdlers a little bit of
6:19
Speaker 3: information about you and your journey with running, because obviously
6:23
Speaker 3: it's not like one day you raised your hand and
6:25
Speaker 3: you said I want to be the Runners performance coach
6:28
Speaker 3: for Adidas. So talk to me a little bit about that.
6:30
Speaker 2: Yeah.
6:31
Speaker 1: Thanks. So I think people reach out to me a
6:35
Speaker 1: lot and ask like, how how did you get to
6:37
Speaker 1: where you are? That's interesting. You're a woman, you're a
6:41
Speaker 1: performance coach, you you know, work in the community space.
6:46
Speaker 1: It was not a linear path by any means. I
6:49
Speaker 1: think my journey definitely started. I was a teenager. I
6:55
Speaker 1: ran track and field, I played volleyball, I had a
6:59
Speaker 1: sports affinity and background growing up. Also was one of
7:04
Speaker 1: eight children, so a lot of the time I was
7:09
Speaker 1: playing with my siblings and also had an interest in
7:15
Speaker 1: helping others. It's kind of always been a piece of
7:18
Speaker 1: my identity was volunteering or tutoring or you know, always
7:25
Speaker 1: sort of thinking social justice minded. So when it came
7:31
Speaker 1: time to think about college I went to I had
7:34
Speaker 1: a couple of different routes, like go play volleyball at
7:37
Speaker 1: a school, or go to art school. I chose art school,
7:42
Speaker 1: which led me down a path towards art therapy. I
7:45
Speaker 1: was working in actually a maximum security facility with young
7:49
Speaker 1: people outside of Detroit and as a teaching artist, and
7:54
Speaker 1: so I just saw the importance of helping others. I
7:58
Speaker 1: think I was kind of raised that way, and as
8:03
Speaker 1: I moved to New York, studied art therapy here, became
8:06
Speaker 1: an art therapist, but always had running as a thing
8:09
Speaker 1: I did for myself. I got into distance running when
8:13
Speaker 1: I was in my twenties, kind of for stress management.
8:17
Speaker 1: Always ran alone until I was bartending in the No
8:23
Speaker 1: Lita Ish Lower East Side area. Kept running into this
8:27
Speaker 1: one particular person who was like, Hey, do you want
8:30
Speaker 1: to come try my run group, and I think after
8:35
Speaker 1: like six months, I was like, all right, fine, I'll
8:37
Speaker 1: come try your run group. And that turned out to
8:39
Speaker 1: be the New York City Bridge Runners in its infancy.
8:43
Speaker 1: I started out running with them and just loved the
8:47
Speaker 1: community aspect of being around other people who wanted to
8:52
Speaker 1: push themselves to be better, but that were also kind
8:56
Speaker 1: of like non traditional runners. So I don't think I
9:00
Speaker 1: ever identified myself really as a runner, but had been
9:03
Speaker 1: running ten years up to that point.
9:06
Speaker 3: Right, isn't that funny that people do that all the time. Yeah,
9:09
Speaker 3: it's like, oh, I don't know if I'm a runner,
9:11
Speaker 3: but yet you go out three times a week and
9:13
Speaker 3: you have shoes that you specifically run in.
9:16
Speaker 2: It's just an identity, yeah, an identity thing. Yeah.
9:19
Speaker 1: And I think even maybe, and that was like early
9:23
Speaker 1: two thousands, there was a very different way that people
9:27
Speaker 1: presented themselves in the world because this is pre social media,
9:30
Speaker 1: so it was kind of hard to like give yourself
9:33
Speaker 1: a title, like it felt like you had to earn
9:36
Speaker 1: something to have a title. So I think this idea
9:41
Speaker 1: of calling yourself a runner, you were like, can I
9:43
Speaker 1: call myself a runner? I didn't do XYZ, right, and
9:48
Speaker 1: I feel like we've moved way beyond that at this point,
9:51
Speaker 1: and hopefully people who run can add that as part
9:56
Speaker 1: of their identity.
9:56
Speaker 2: Thank god. Yeah.
9:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really beautiful to hopefully empower people and access
10:03
Speaker 3: point regardless of where they are on their journey. And
10:07
Speaker 3: I feel like this sentiment keeps coming up on the
10:10
Speaker 3: show lately, but that idea of in order to be her,
10:13
Speaker 3: you need to see her. Now on social media we
10:17
Speaker 3: see runners of all types.
10:19
Speaker 2: Still.
10:19
Speaker 3: That doesn't mean, though, that runners of all types always
10:23
Speaker 3: feel welcomed in the running community right from the get go,
10:26
Speaker 3: but I do believe that that at least empowers more
10:30
Speaker 3: individuals to call themselves a runner. Absolutely.
10:33
Speaker 2: Yeah.
10:34
Speaker 3: Okay, so you were bartending, you say, fine, I'll try
10:38
Speaker 3: your run group, and suddenly you're running with Bridge Runners.
10:42
Speaker 2: Yeah okay, yeah.
10:44
Speaker 1: And you know that was like, I don't know, two
10:47
Speaker 1: thousand and four or somewhere around then. I was still
10:53
Speaker 1: early twenties. I thought three miles was a lot, and
10:59
Speaker 1: so I I think I ran four miles like the
11:01
Speaker 1: first time I ever went with them, And there was
11:04
Speaker 1: that moment, I mean, that's an unforgettable moment for me,
11:07
Speaker 1: which was just like breaking the three mile barrier, which
11:10
Speaker 1: to me is a real thing. Three miles is always hard.
11:13
Speaker 1: So that was a moment where I saw that there
11:17
Speaker 1: was something more on the other side. And then I
11:19
Speaker 1: think I continued to chase that idea of something more
11:24
Speaker 1: with a group of people who were actually very supportive.
11:29
Speaker 1: And it also happened to be a group that was
11:31
Speaker 1: running at night. And you know, I worked in night life,
11:35
Speaker 1: so I wasn't getting up early to go run. That
11:38
Speaker 1: wasn't in my schedule. It wasn't really in my like
11:41
Speaker 1: ability at that time. So to have a group that
11:44
Speaker 1: was meeting at seven or eight at night and running
11:47
Speaker 1: in the dark, like I could do that because it
11:51
Speaker 1: was a group, and it was a group of guys
11:53
Speaker 1: that I felt safe running with. And I think, you know,
11:58
Speaker 1: I mentioned it on the panel because I was sitting
12:01
Speaker 1: next to Coffee and he was talking about he loves
12:03
Speaker 1: running at midnight, and I think a couple of us
12:06
Speaker 1: women were like, Oh, my god, wouldn't that be nice
12:10
Speaker 1: to be able to run at midnight as a woman
12:12
Speaker 1: and not have to worry about it. And it was
12:15
Speaker 1: being in that group that provided that access point for
12:19
Speaker 1: me where I didn't feel afraid because of having the
12:22
Speaker 1: men in the group who were supportive and protective. But
12:26
Speaker 1: it's not lost on me that there are certain doors
12:29
Speaker 1: that are shut for folks because of our gender, because
12:36
Speaker 1: of our orientation.
12:39
Speaker 2: Yeah.
12:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, First things first, it's so interesting to hear you
12:43
Speaker 3: say that when you first started running, you were exclusively
12:47
Speaker 3: doing it alone. Knowing that now today, how often would
12:51
Speaker 3: you say that you actually run alone?
12:54
Speaker 1: Honestly, it's pretty rare. Although I will be going into
12:58
Speaker 1: a training cycle in the off season right now where
13:02
Speaker 1: a lot of those miles are probably going to be
13:04
Speaker 1: alone because my running buddy moved to la oh gosh.
13:09
Speaker 1: So it's a little daunting. Yeah, And it means I
13:13
Speaker 1: have to think about what my day looks like.
13:16
Speaker 3: I had that thought for the first time the other
13:19
Speaker 3: day as well. I haven't been running a lot since
13:22
Speaker 3: everything happened with Liza Fletcher, and the people listening to
13:26
Speaker 3: this don't need me to tell them that. Obviously, Liza
13:29
Speaker 3: is not the first runner to be injured, harassed. She
13:34
Speaker 3: was unfortunately kidnapped and murdered. But she's not the first
13:38
Speaker 3: and she won't be the last. And all of this
13:41
Speaker 3: makes me think about how I feel about running early
13:45
Speaker 3: in the morning, something that once gave me so much
13:48
Speaker 3: solace and now the thought of it makes me truly
13:52
Speaker 3: pretty anxious.
13:53
Speaker 1: I think it's really unfortunate to keep having this conversation
13:58
Speaker 1: over year after or year, and I think that's where
14:04
Speaker 1: what kind of got me to the point of where
14:06
Speaker 1: the focus of my energy is right now on the
14:10
Speaker 1: issue of safety, which is that it's not a women's issue,
14:16
Speaker 1: it's a human issue, and getting to the root of
14:20
Speaker 1: why and really finding action oriented ways of approaching it,
14:27
Speaker 1: because because we're going to keep having this conversation right
14:31
Speaker 1: where we have a lot of power in the running
14:34
Speaker 1: community that we're already living existing in is that we
14:40
Speaker 1: have people coming together across gender, ethnicity, orientation and finding
14:45
Speaker 1: some common ground and running. And so it already is
14:49
Speaker 1: this like massive group of people who we could mobilize
14:53
Speaker 1: towards doing something positive. And I think we saw a
14:58
Speaker 1: lot of that, like you know, into twenty one, just
15:02
Speaker 1: the social change aspect of being able to bring folks
15:07
Speaker 1: in the running community together. And so I think this
15:09
Speaker 1: topic of women's safety not just women's safety, it's safety
15:14
Speaker 1: for people of color, for LGBT plus community, that that
15:19
Speaker 1: is something that people can rally around that we could
15:22
Speaker 1: actually make some really positive change towards But it's not
15:27
Speaker 1: it's not going to end like it's not going to
15:29
Speaker 1: end gender based violence. But I think the point is
15:32
Speaker 1: that we want to feel like we have some power
15:36
Speaker 1: to make some.
15:37
Speaker 3: Steps before we dive a little bit more into that.
15:40
Speaker 3: I want to bring up some statistics for us to
15:44
Speaker 3: work off of. So in a recent Runners World survey,
15:48
Speaker 3: eighty four percent of women noted that they'd been harassed
15:51
Speaker 3: while running, seventy percent of men have not. Twenty five
15:55
Speaker 3: percent of those surveyed said that they're regularly subjected to
16:00
Speaker 3: sexist comments, are unwanted sexual advances, and one in five
16:05
Speaker 3: have felt more harassed since the first national lockdown. Also,
16:10
Speaker 3: let it be known that those that identify as BIPICK
16:15
Speaker 3: or LGBTQ are more likely to experience sexual harassment, sex
16:20
Speaker 3: based discrimination, and sexual assault. How does hearing all that
16:26
Speaker 3: even make you feel?
16:28
Speaker 1: It makes me feel angry.
16:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I would have.
16:32
Speaker 1: To guess that many people have been pushing that anger
16:36
Speaker 1: down for a long time just so that they can
16:40
Speaker 1: get themselves to get up and go out and run.
16:43
Speaker 1: There was a woman actually at our panel who's towards
16:47
Speaker 1: the end was like all of this, like it's so frustrating,
16:51
Speaker 1: Like how do we still feel hopeful to keep lacing
16:55
Speaker 1: up and going out and running? Like it's it's really hard,
16:59
Speaker 1: And I think it's true.
17:00
Speaker 2: I think.
17:02
Speaker 1: It's almost like this topic is opening up a Pandora's
17:06
Speaker 1: box because it's something we've been dealing with, or deal
17:10
Speaker 1: with on a daily basis, that you put away so
17:13
Speaker 1: that you can keep going out the door and going
17:17
Speaker 1: to work. You can keep putting your shoes on and running.
17:19
Speaker 1: You can sign up for another marathon and train for it,
17:24
Speaker 1: and you know, we're we are fortunate we can keep
17:27
Speaker 1: doing that. Not everyone has had that experience. For some
17:31
Speaker 1: it can be debilitating and it means they're not going
17:34
Speaker 1: out there and running.
17:35
Speaker 3: Right right, And so this then brings us to that
17:39
Speaker 3: conversation of how we can move forward despite at times
17:44
Speaker 3: being so crippled, and that for you, with your work
17:50
Speaker 3: at Adidas Runners, has really become a conversation about allyship.
17:56
Speaker 2: So why don't we dive in there?
17:59
Speaker 3: Why don't you tell me little bit about what allyship
18:02
Speaker 3: looks like in the case of gender based violence?
18:07
Speaker 1: Yeah? Absolutely, I mean to rewind a little bit to
18:14
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, there was a professional athlete who ran
18:18
Speaker 1: for Adidas. Her name was Agnes tear Up. She broke
18:23
Speaker 1: the world record in the ten k at this race
18:26
Speaker 1: called Road to Records. She was a Kenyan athlete, young
18:31
Speaker 1: at the beginning of her career, and several of her
18:34
Speaker 1: fellow athletes also raced for Adidas. She was murdered a
18:40
Speaker 1: few months later after winning the world record and by
18:46
Speaker 1: her partner. So it was a domestic violence incident. And
18:53
Speaker 1: when that happened, I think, you know, I'm as a
18:57
Speaker 1: an athlete who works for Adidas, but just on a
19:00
Speaker 1: different end in the community aspect. It shook up the
19:04
Speaker 1: community within Adidas because they were like, it felt really
19:08
Speaker 1: close to home. And so that sparked a conversation amongst
19:13
Speaker 1: all of the women coaches and captains who were within
19:17
Speaker 1: Adidas Runners globally around gender based violence. And once you
19:25
Speaker 1: start the conversation, you'd begin to hear more and more
19:27
Speaker 1: and more stories of incidences. So the initiative that we
19:35
Speaker 1: basically came towards was we're tired of women talking to
19:40
Speaker 1: women about being harassed about all of the things we
19:45
Speaker 1: deal with because we know already and I think that
19:52
Speaker 1: we felt the conversation now needs to push out beyond that,
19:57
Speaker 1: in particular our male counterparts. And then when that conversation
20:02
Speaker 1: started happening, people were like yeah, they started sharing things like, oh,
20:08
Speaker 1: as a women coach, you know, some of my male
20:11
Speaker 1: counterparts don't like support me and they don't support my voice,
20:14
Speaker 1: and so like athletes don't listen to me and they
20:16
Speaker 1: It just started this whole other conversation around like the
20:21
Speaker 1: support from male or non women counterparts within our own
20:26
Speaker 1: communities and how that was happening really great in some
20:31
Speaker 1: places and then not as great in others. And so
20:36
Speaker 1: we kind of started from there with this initiative and
20:40
Speaker 1: it's called with Women We Run. And the idea is
20:43
Speaker 1: one sort of identifying the issues. And I think you
20:49
Speaker 1: know where gender based violence comes from, or violence against
20:54
Speaker 1: others is is often someone feeling that someone else is
20:57
Speaker 1: lesser than or that's societally people are lesser than or
21:02
Speaker 1: othered and so it's a deep issue. But the idea
21:08
Speaker 1: around creating allahship, whether it's for our BIPOC community members
21:15
Speaker 1: or LGBTQ community members or women, that it's standing alongside
21:21
Speaker 1: someone and saying like they actually deserve equal or more
21:27
Speaker 1: support and representation at this time, and so I think
21:31
Speaker 1: it's has started with conversations. It started with people sharing
21:36
Speaker 1: personal stories and then listening, and then I think the
21:41
Speaker 1: goal is to go further from there, which is like
21:46
Speaker 1: also understanding like what are some of the issues that
21:49
Speaker 1: women are facing on a daily basis, or what are
21:52
Speaker 1: some of the ways that our counterparts are maybe contributing
21:57
Speaker 1: to those issues or they're not contributing to a solution.
22:02
Speaker 1: We're still in the beginning of it, but to me,
22:07
Speaker 1: it feels like the type of work that is going
22:11
Speaker 1: to need to happen for longer change and lasting change,
22:16
Speaker 1: versus other things that we already have to do, which
22:20
Speaker 1: is like take self defense courses or Carrie Mace or
22:26
Speaker 1: Carrie abiity or tell people where you're running. Like there's
22:28
Speaker 1: all these practical things that like we should do and
22:32
Speaker 1: we know we have to do, and it's important to
22:36
Speaker 1: identify those. So we're also like helping other women create
22:40
Speaker 1: safe practices around running. But like that's only one layer,
22:45
Speaker 1: and I think the deeper layer is okay, outside of that,
22:51
Speaker 1: are what are our male coaches doing within our communities
22:55
Speaker 1: to make a safe space. You know, what type of
22:57
Speaker 1: behavior maybe goes unchecked even within our own groups. And
23:04
Speaker 1: for me as a woman who's leading a community, a
23:08
Speaker 1: lot of times it also feels not great to be
23:12
Speaker 1: the one that's like calling out behavior that's bad because
23:16
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, then you're also you're continuing to put
23:20
Speaker 1: me in this like space of being the mother or
23:23
Speaker 1: being you know whatever, and that's not solving the problem.
23:27
Speaker 1: And so it's been really cool to have these conversations
23:32
Speaker 1: with other men who are like, yeah, I stand next
23:35
Speaker 1: to you and like I'm going to call out that behavior,
23:40
Speaker 1: like I'm going to make sure I'm not contributing to
23:43
Speaker 1: it because I'm more aware of what you're going through.
23:52
Speaker 3: It's about that time in the episode where I think
23:55
Speaker 3: the good people that make this content possible a huge
23:59
Speaker 3: things today to my friends at Bandit Running. If you've
24:03
Speaker 3: been with me for a while then you know that
24:05
Speaker 3: Bandit is truly one of my staples for running gear,
24:09
Speaker 3: actually started by a friend of mine here in Brooklyn.
24:12
Speaker 3: I cannot get enough of their new winter collection with
24:17
Speaker 3: their soft Speed fabric system. So let me tell you
24:21
Speaker 3: a little bit about soft Speed.
24:22
Speaker 2: Soft Speed.
24:23
Speaker 3: The leggings, the quarter zip, even the headband. It is
24:27
Speaker 3: so soft. The inside of soft Speed, it's peached and
24:31
Speaker 3: feels like a warm hug on your skin, and the
24:34
Speaker 3: outside makes.
24:35
Speaker 2: It even better.
24:36
Speaker 3: It's smooth and sleek and it just hugs my body
24:39
Speaker 3: in all of the right places. I just had coffee
24:42
Speaker 3: the other day with Artith, saying she is one of
24:45
Speaker 3: Bandit's co founders and one of my buddies. I've sat
24:49
Speaker 3: down with her so many times over the last few months,
24:51
Speaker 3: and I'm so inspired by both her tenacity as an
24:56
Speaker 3: entrepreneur and also her true passion of making the best
25:02
Speaker 3: clothing possible to help women feel powerful in their bodies.
25:07
Speaker 3: It's the little details in each piece, like I'm talking
25:10
Speaker 3: ideal fitting phone pockets and strategically located zippers. No detail
25:16
Speaker 3: is too small. Now I am so amped to be
25:19
Speaker 3: able to give you fifteen percent off your first order
25:22
Speaker 3: to try band it out. And if you know bandit,
25:25
Speaker 3: then you know that they don't do offers frequently, so
25:28
Speaker 3: this is totally something you want to take advantage of.
25:31
Speaker 3: All you've got to do is use code Hurdle one
25:34
Speaker 3: five at checkout and you're good to go. Bandit also
25:37
Speaker 3: has free shipping on orders over one hundred dollars, and
25:40
Speaker 3: if you're in the New York area. They just opened
25:43
Speaker 3: a store in Greenpoint again. Head on over to bandit
25:46
Speaker 3: running dot com. Use the code Hurdle one five at
25:50
Speaker 3: checkout to get fifteen percent off your order today. And
26:03
Speaker 3: I think that word the awareness is really just so
26:08
Speaker 3: important because it isn't until someone maybe brings something to
26:15
Speaker 3: someone else's attention that they can even begin to understand
26:21
Speaker 3: how it feels to be the other. I shared this
26:24
Speaker 3: example at the panel event. But I was going to
26:30
Speaker 3: be biking uptown to support a friend that was running
26:33
Speaker 3: an ultra marathon, and he was going to start running
26:37
Speaker 3: at I believe like six forty five or seven am,
26:39
Speaker 3: which meant that I had to leave where I live
26:42
Speaker 3: in Brooklyn around five point fifty and a friend of mine,
26:46
Speaker 3: a male, and I were going to bike up together,
26:49
Speaker 3: but we were going to meet up in between our
26:51
Speaker 3: homes and he suggested, how about on the Manhattan side
26:55
Speaker 3: of the Williamsburg Bridge For those that aren't familiar with
26:59
Speaker 3: New York that would have reques me to bike over
27:01
Speaker 3: a bridge alone.
27:02
Speaker 2: At five point fifty in the morning in the dark.
27:05
Speaker 3: And I said to him, I was like, I want
27:07
Speaker 3: to bike up with you, and I need to bike
27:09
Speaker 3: up with you, because I actually don't feel safe doing
27:11
Speaker 3: that on my own, and it was something that no
27:15
Speaker 3: shade to him, but it's just not something he thinks
27:17
Speaker 3: about as a man. And so it's bringing this awareness
27:22
Speaker 3: talking about the things that we do right now to
27:26
Speaker 3: feel safe, things that maybe others who aren't in the
27:31
Speaker 3: position that I'm in or you're in, haven't really had
27:34
Speaker 3: to think about before.
27:35
Speaker 2: And there's no like, there's no shade in that.
27:39
Speaker 3: It's genuinely just this is what I go through, and
27:42
Speaker 3: I want you to understand what I go through so
27:45
Speaker 3: that we can make better decisions together moving forward. Yeah,
27:50
Speaker 3: and I also appreciate you bringing up like some of
27:53
Speaker 3: those like loose maybe tools that we have within our toolbox,
27:57
Speaker 3: the birdie carrying me, running with friends, knowing your route,
28:02
Speaker 3: being able to turn on something like a beacon, or
28:04
Speaker 3: the garment live track so that people can keep up
28:06
Speaker 3: with you while you're on your run, Like all of
28:08
Speaker 3: these things. I'm sure no one listening to this like
28:11
Speaker 3: that's the first time you've heard of them. But again,
28:14
Speaker 3: there are so many people that don't think about those
28:17
Speaker 3: tools when they are gearing up to lace up and
28:19
Speaker 3: get out, like we mentioned our friend whose nickname is
28:22
Speaker 3: Coffee going out and running at midnight.
28:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh midnight.
28:29
Speaker 1: I know. But and you know, honestly, even for like
28:35
Speaker 1: thinking about Coffee too, Like even for him, it's not
28:38
Speaker 1: even necessarily safe to be going out running at midnight.
28:41
Speaker 1: And so and that's the other thing is like this
28:43
Speaker 1: is it's not just a women's issue. This is an
28:46
Speaker 1: issue for like all of our counterparts who are bipoc.
28:50
Speaker 1: It's an issue. It's a huge issue for LGBTQ plus
28:54
Speaker 1: folks in particular. I think there were even more stats
29:00
Speaker 1: that I saw when we were really creating them with women.
29:03
Speaker 1: We run initiative around just how LGBTQ plus counterparts are
29:10
Speaker 1: really at like the highest risk of being attacked. And so,
29:15
Speaker 1: you know, I think this is like a starting point,
29:18
Speaker 1: right is and we're coming to it as women, as
29:22
Speaker 1: white women, so we're coming to it from our lens.
29:25
Speaker 1: So even like there's stuff that we need to learn
29:27
Speaker 1: by listening to others who are different from us. So
29:31
Speaker 1: I think, really, you know, like we said starting the conversation,
29:35
Speaker 1: it's hard, Like it's not a comfortable conversation. It doesn't
29:39
Speaker 1: feel great because like we don't have all the answers,
29:44
Speaker 1: but like starting the conversation is super important.
29:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And and something else that we spoke about
29:50
Speaker 3: at the event, which I heard after had a pretty
29:54
Speaker 3: big effect was the idea of the different groups that
29:58
Speaker 3: we can have within our communit for communication to encourage
30:02
Speaker 3: safety between amongst one another. Right, So, there is a
30:08
Speaker 3: group that is in Brooklyn and they have a WhatsApp
30:12
Speaker 3: group that members can come in and chime in and say, hey,
30:17
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about going running at this time, Like does
30:19
Speaker 3: anyone around does anyone want to join? And of course,
30:21
Speaker 3: like all the individuals within the group, they know each other,
30:24
Speaker 3: so there's like some comfortability there. But upon sharing that
30:29
Speaker 3: at our event, I ran into two women that belonged
30:33
Speaker 3: to a different group that runs out of Manhattan and
30:37
Speaker 3: they said, oh, we actually created a WhatsApp group after that,
30:40
Speaker 3: and it's been super helpful, right, just so that people
30:42
Speaker 3: know that if you want to get out, that you
30:44
Speaker 3: don't necessarily need to run alone, and that like it
30:49
Speaker 3: seems so small, but it can make such a major difference, right,
30:54
Speaker 3: And I even think it's like the access to that,
30:58
Speaker 3: it's the it's not having a stigma or about the
31:03
Speaker 3: fact that you want to run with somebody else and
31:05
Speaker 3: someone's like, you can't just go for a run. You know,
31:07
Speaker 3: there's there's no input from other people in the club
31:12
Speaker 3: saying like here's Emily asking again to see if anybody's
31:17
Speaker 3: around for a run, Like no, like you're her teammate,
31:20
Speaker 3: so like, if you're around for a run, then say
31:23
Speaker 3: you're around for a run, and if you're not, there's
31:25
Speaker 3: nothing to say about the fact that this person's just
31:27
Speaker 3: trying to be safe in their execution.
31:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, which I think is challenging.
31:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. I love that people immediately coming out
31:37
Speaker 1: of that conversation were like, oh, let's try it right,
31:40
Speaker 1: like that openness to there are some other things we
31:44
Speaker 1: can do and we know it's an issue. I love
31:48
Speaker 1: that it's funny because well it's not funny. But immediately
31:53
Speaker 1: after the Eliza Fletcher tragedy, you know, I brought it
31:58
Speaker 1: up to one of my colleagues and not not specifically
32:04
Speaker 1: like on the Adidas Runners Leadership team, but someone who
32:07
Speaker 1: also runs, and they were the first thing they said
32:10
Speaker 1: was like, why was she out at four am? And
32:13
Speaker 1: you know I immediately was just like, ah, like I
32:16
Speaker 1: like I had all these things I wanted to say,
32:17
Speaker 1: and I was just like, oh my god, Like you know,
32:21
Speaker 1: there was that immediate judgment of like, well, and I
32:25
Speaker 1: think we get that too, which is like, what was
32:26
Speaker 1: she wearing, why was she why was she wearing that,
32:29
Speaker 1: Why was she out at this time? Why was she alone?
32:31
Speaker 1: Why did she choose that route? And I think, I
32:36
Speaker 1: mean obviously, like we know the answers to those things.
32:39
Speaker 1: She's teacher, she's a mother, Like it makes sense, Like
32:42
Speaker 1: we get it. Like I think a lot of women
32:46
Speaker 1: were like, of course that's when she would run, so
32:48
Speaker 1: she could get up then and you know, take care
32:50
Speaker 1: of her kids and go to work.
32:53
Speaker 2: But yeah, like.
32:54
Speaker 1: Even like bringing that level of awareness to other runners
32:58
Speaker 1: who like, don't it's not a concern of theirs, like
33:03
Speaker 1: or they're not even thinking this is an issue, And
33:06
Speaker 1: there are so many things like that. I think one
33:08
Speaker 1: thing that was interesting after our panel discussion, a lot
33:13
Speaker 1: of people reached out to me after that, like immediately
33:17
Speaker 1: folks that I don't know that well, who either were
33:22
Speaker 1: very thankful that the conversation was starting or who felt
33:25
Speaker 1: like there was so much more that we need to
33:27
Speaker 1: talk about. And I was like, oh, yeah, this is
33:31
Speaker 1: really just a tip of the Iceberg.
33:33
Speaker 3: To be honest, Yeah, was there like a prompting in
33:37
Speaker 3: the other things that we should be talking about?
33:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm and this one kind of hits home for me.
33:44
Speaker 1: But a couple of people were like, we need to
33:47
Speaker 1: talk about our groups being safe, our groups feeling like
33:52
Speaker 1: a safe space where women are not being sexually harassed
33:56
Speaker 1: or worse. And I was like, oh shit, yeah, I
34:03
Speaker 1: mean we were talking so much about, you know, strange
34:06
Speaker 1: the idea of strangers being a danger, but like, what
34:10
Speaker 1: about the people around you? What about the people that
34:12
Speaker 1: are close to you? And how do we deal with that?
34:16
Speaker 2: Yeah?
34:17
Speaker 3: I don't have the specific statistic, but I know that
34:19
Speaker 3: you're more likely to be harassed by someone that you
34:22
Speaker 3: do know than someone that you don't. And that is
34:27
Speaker 3: just so heartbreaking because for so many, myself included, I
34:31
Speaker 3: often think of the run community as an outlet, as
34:34
Speaker 3: a safe space, but you never know, you never know
34:38
Speaker 3: what could happen, and so it's difficult and like frustrating
34:43
Speaker 3: and heartbreaking to an extent to think about that place
34:47
Speaker 3: that often we look to you for community being a
34:50
Speaker 3: place that also could be troublesome or even triggering for some.
34:57
Speaker 3: Now when you say the concept of we need to
35:00
Speaker 3: be more maybe supportive or inclusive within our groups. I
35:04
Speaker 3: know that that also extends, And this is a conversation
35:07
Speaker 3: we had on that evening about even pace inclusivity, right,
35:13
Speaker 3: because oftentimes many people are husband to show up to
35:17
Speaker 3: different running groups because they're scared of being quote unquote
35:21
Speaker 3: the slowest, being left behind.
35:22
Speaker 2: No one wants to be left behind.
35:24
Speaker 3: And perhaps I would argue more often than not that
35:28
Speaker 3: the people that feel that way are women. So when
35:31
Speaker 3: we say pace inclusivity, what do you what does that
35:37
Speaker 3: mean to you? How can we be more conscious of
35:40
Speaker 3: making sure that everyone within the group is safe and
35:43
Speaker 3: accounted for.
35:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great I mean, that's so interesting because
35:49
Speaker 1: I'm it's making me think about lots of like early
35:54
Speaker 1: running experiences I had, where especially if you're new, Oh,
36:01
Speaker 1: you might be one of the slowest people, or you
36:03
Speaker 1: might be one of the less fit people, because that's
36:07
Speaker 1: kind of a common experience if you're new to a group,
36:10
Speaker 1: like you may not have built up the fitness base,
36:13
Speaker 1: you might not have years under your belts, et cetera.
36:16
Speaker 1: So I can recall like plenty of times being the
36:19
Speaker 1: last one in a group, even getting lost and kind
36:23
Speaker 1: of just being like, uh, you know, good thing, I
36:25
Speaker 1: know my way around like a little bit. It does
36:28
Speaker 1: tend to I mean, there's lots of different reasons why
36:32
Speaker 1: maybe the men, maybe men who are slower don't approach
36:35
Speaker 1: groups because they feel the same way, you know, and
36:38
Speaker 1: like I don't know, I'm sure there have been plenty
36:41
Speaker 1: of times there are men in our groups that show
36:43
Speaker 1: up in there in the back as well. But it
36:46
Speaker 1: does tend to skew women, yeah, from what I've seen,
36:51
Speaker 1: and that does it can become a safety issue from
36:55
Speaker 1: a physical standpoint of getting lost or getting left behind,
36:59
Speaker 1: and so well, yeah, thinking about that within our groups,
37:02
Speaker 1: like who is looking after the back of the group,
37:06
Speaker 1: And I can think of some actually power Malu stands
37:09
Speaker 1: out obviously as like a really incredible figure in the
37:13
Speaker 1: running community, who's if you ever ran with him, He's
37:17
Speaker 1: super caring and he will always be in the back.
37:22
Speaker 1: He's literally like making sure no one gets left behind.
37:26
Speaker 1: And I appreciate folks like that who kind of set
37:30
Speaker 1: aside their own maybe running goals for the greater good
37:35
Speaker 1: of other people. So I love that. I love that
37:38
Speaker 1: groups have spaces like that or they think about putting
37:43
Speaker 1: people into leadership positions that are also helping out beginners
37:48
Speaker 1: or people who are slower in the back.
37:50
Speaker 3: Speaking of people in leadership positions, this also brings us
37:53
Speaker 3: to that important conversation about groups having both male and
37:57
Speaker 3: female leadership right making sure that individuals feel comfortable speaking
38:03
Speaker 3: to whoever they may choose to speak to about how
38:07
Speaker 3: they feel in the group, their safety in the group,
38:10
Speaker 3: and things like that. So why would you say that
38:13
Speaker 3: that is also important to have genders represented at the
38:18
Speaker 3: group leadership level.
38:19
Speaker 1: Diversity in representation in leadership is important for many reasons.
38:26
Speaker 1: One of those reasons being that you have that person
38:30
Speaker 1: to say or challenge, Hey, you just said we should
38:34
Speaker 1: do it like this, but also what about this? So
38:38
Speaker 1: there's an alternate perspective that's brought to the table when
38:43
Speaker 1: you're even just planning something like a run, So already
38:47
Speaker 1: there's that there's someone else thinking about others versus there
38:52
Speaker 1: being one maybe one viewpoint or one perspective. In particular, also,
38:58
Speaker 1: having women in leadership, I've witnessed it bring more women
39:01
Speaker 1: into a group because they see a woman leading and
39:06
Speaker 1: they're like, okay, so someone might be looking out for
39:09
Speaker 1: my interests or this might be a safe space. I
39:12
Speaker 1: think it sort of indicates even just from appearances, this
39:15
Speaker 1: could potentially be a safe space to join. And then,
39:19
Speaker 1: like you were saying, having someone else who could potentially
39:24
Speaker 1: be a listening ear if something was going on, if
39:27
Speaker 1: something was happening, and that might not always be the
39:32
Speaker 1: coach or the leader. It might be a pacer, or
39:34
Speaker 1: it might be a community member who's been there forever
39:38
Speaker 1: and people confide in them and they feel comfortable to
39:42
Speaker 1: share what's going on. I know within the groups that
39:46
Speaker 1: I've led, there's always eyes and ears that like sort
39:50
Speaker 1: of know what's going on, that will know way before
39:54
Speaker 1: the coach or the captain knows. And so creating a
39:58
Speaker 1: space where they feel safe enough to bring that to
40:01
Speaker 1: you and that you could come up with a solution
40:04
Speaker 1: for what happened, I think is super important.
40:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is super important.
40:09
Speaker 3: And this takes me too, or it makes me think
40:13
Speaker 3: of kind of going back to that residual frustration that
40:17
Speaker 3: was echoed across the room, this concept that we're still
40:23
Speaker 3: having these conversations. I don't know what to do next,
40:26
Speaker 3: and I think the best thing to do is really
40:30
Speaker 3: just start, like just start having conversations like this one
40:36
Speaker 3: with people that you care about, with fellow runners, and
40:40
Speaker 3: then take any sort of action that you can to
40:44
Speaker 3: make yourself feel at least one percent safer when you
40:47
Speaker 3: head out there. Right, So, for me, last week, I
40:50
Speaker 3: went to I go to an all women's strength class
40:54
Speaker 3: once a week, and I love that space. And literally
40:58
Speaker 3: the coach bought us all all pepper spray to have
41:02
Speaker 3: a it. Like my heart feels some kind of way
41:05
Speaker 3: that like that's the thing that we were distributing at
41:07
Speaker 3: our women's strength class.
41:08
Speaker 2: But I feel thankful.
41:11
Speaker 3: Not only that now I obviously have this tool at
41:14
Speaker 3: my disposal if I should need it, but also like
41:17
Speaker 3: a space to air out how I feel about my
41:20
Speaker 3: frustrations within this group of female runners who are making
41:24
Speaker 3: time and it a priority to strength train also, which
41:27
Speaker 3: is something that I haven't typically done in the past.
41:31
Speaker 3: You know. The action item is like, how can you
41:34
Speaker 3: make yourself feel one percent safer because of all those
41:39
Speaker 3: reasons that you articulated at the top of how running
41:41
Speaker 3: made you feel? Right, Like, all of those reasons are
41:43
Speaker 3: why we keep running. I keep running because I want
41:46
Speaker 3: to feel capable. I want to be reminded of my
41:48
Speaker 3: own potential. I want to be able to de stress
41:50
Speaker 3: about my day. And that is why despite this, these
41:55
Speaker 3: tragedies happening every so often unfortunately, like we keep playing
42:00
Speaker 3: sing up right. So I owe it to myself if
42:03
Speaker 3: I want to keep doing the thing that I love
42:05
Speaker 3: so much that makes me feel some kind of way,
42:07
Speaker 3: to have these talks and think about what I can
42:11
Speaker 3: do to get one percent safer. What would you say
42:16
Speaker 3: is something that someone listening to this could do to
42:22
Speaker 3: head in that direction?
42:24
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean as the community person, I'm always gonna
42:31
Speaker 1: push finding a buddy.
42:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you'll find.
42:35
Speaker 1: Buddies in the unexpected places. I've had people become my
42:39
Speaker 1: running buddies who never thought they would want to ever
42:43
Speaker 1: run in their life. And there were different reasons why
42:46
Speaker 1: we got together and did it. One in particular, I'm
42:50
Speaker 1: thinking about my friend Anna, and I was like, she
42:53
Speaker 1: wanted to get coffee in the morning before work. This
42:55
Speaker 1: is years ago, and I was like, cool, we will,
42:58
Speaker 1: but we have to jog, like to we have the
43:00
Speaker 1: jog two miles and then we'll get coffee and a bagel.
43:03
Speaker 1: And she was like, okay, I could do that, and
43:06
Speaker 1: it became a thing. It turned into a whole group
43:08
Speaker 1: like of folks, and we used coffee and bagels and
43:12
Speaker 1: donuts and whatever at the end, but it really became
43:15
Speaker 1: this like camaraderie of folks getting together just to move
43:20
Speaker 1: and definitely like, can you enlist someone right, like to
43:24
Speaker 1: be your accountability partner, to be that person that you're like, hey,
43:28
Speaker 1: I'm going out for a run. Maybe you meet me
43:32
Speaker 1: like part of the way, and then we text each
43:34
Speaker 1: other when we leave, and we text each other when
43:36
Speaker 1: we get back. Like, it doesn't always have to be
43:39
Speaker 1: that you run everything together, right, Maybe you find a
43:42
Speaker 1: group that feels comfortable for you to join. And there's
43:47
Speaker 1: so many different groups, at least here in New York
43:50
Speaker 1: where it's a luxury. Outside of New York, it's not
43:54
Speaker 1: like that. I know, there's plenty of friends of mine
43:57
Speaker 1: and people who live elsewhere where there's like one run
44:00
Speaker 1: club in the whole city, right, So that's tough, right,
44:04
Speaker 1: And so I think, you know, if you can find
44:08
Speaker 1: a buddy and that they somehow are your partner, that's great.
44:14
Speaker 1: If not, then it does become those things where you're like,
44:19
Speaker 1: all right, when are the safe times for me to
44:21
Speaker 1: be out? What are the safe places that I feel
44:24
Speaker 1: comfortable in? You know, I'm going to Austin for the holidays,
44:28
Speaker 1: and I like to run when I'm there, and I
44:30
Speaker 1: actually find that it's a little bit harder to find
44:34
Speaker 1: running routes there, even though people are like, there's such
44:36
Speaker 1: a big running city and like, but where, But Ladybird
44:39
Speaker 1: Lake is one place I'll go run because I know
44:42
Speaker 1: that it's all runners there, Like people are running walking,
44:45
Speaker 1: and I know when they're going to be there, and
44:47
Speaker 1: so I plan. I'm like, Okay, I've got this amount
44:50
Speaker 1: of distance I'm going to do. If I have to
44:53
Speaker 1: loop it, I loop it. But I just stay in
44:55
Speaker 1: the most populated area. I go during daylight hours my
45:00
Speaker 1: day around it. And I do that because it's a
45:03
Speaker 1: priority for me, and I understand like everyone doesn't have
45:06
Speaker 1: that luxury. But those would just be like a couple
45:10
Speaker 1: of tips. But I feel like there's so many things
45:12
Speaker 1: we could do.
45:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that that one of knowing your route,
45:16
Speaker 3: like really at its foundation, is just so important, right,
45:19
Speaker 3: Like just so important to know where you're going and
45:22
Speaker 3: have an awareness around you. For sure, I'm like sitting
45:26
Speaker 3: here chuckling a little bit, not because of our conversation,
45:28
Speaker 3: but literally for the last I think forty one minutes
45:31
Speaker 3: for a better part of it, there's been like sirens
45:33
Speaker 3: outside and I feel like it's like oddly fitting for
45:37
Speaker 3: the topic. So apologies to anyone who has been hearing
45:41
Speaker 3: those as we record. I'm glad that we were able
45:45
Speaker 3: to like sit down and jam a little bit about
45:47
Speaker 3: this and to you know, your point and what's been
45:50
Speaker 3: said so many times throughout this episode is like, really,
45:52
Speaker 3: this is just the tip of the iceberg, and the
45:55
Speaker 3: best thing that we can do is continue to have
45:58
Speaker 3: conversations like this. I know that I will be hosting
46:03
Speaker 3: some sort of a large format conversation on safety during
46:06
Speaker 3: LA Marathon weekends, so stay tuned for that if you're
46:09
Speaker 3: out in that area or plan on running. Jesse, how
46:13
Speaker 3: do the hurdlers keep up with you? How do they
46:16
Speaker 3: follow along with you? Give us some information?
46:18
Speaker 2: Can they run with you?
46:19
Speaker 1: I r L Yeah, So a couple of things. I'm
46:24
Speaker 1: Jesse Zappo on Twitter and Instagram. More active on Instagram.
46:31
Speaker 1: Probably the easiest way to find me is also at
46:34
Speaker 1: Girls Run NYC. We do a weekly workout on Wednesdays
46:39
Speaker 1: at six Where do you directly mccaren track, which also
46:44
Speaker 1: that was another thing we created Girls run as a
46:47
Speaker 1: women's specific space, and we made it on the track
46:52
Speaker 1: so that no one would ever get lost or ever
46:54
Speaker 1: get left behind. So that was our pace inclusive strategy.
47:00
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean you can find us on Instagram.
47:04
Speaker 1: We always post. If we're taking a day off, we
47:06
Speaker 1: usually post it there, but we're once a week. And obviously,
47:12
Speaker 1: like you know, for folks who aren't in New York City,
47:17
Speaker 1: sometimes just following along and seeing what other people are
47:19
Speaker 1: doing can make you feel like you're a part of
47:22
Speaker 1: something bigger. So yeah, keep it active, follow along, keep up.
47:27
Speaker 3: I'm over at Hurdle Podcast and at Emily a Body
47:30
Speaker 3: Another Hurdle Conquered.
47:32
Speaker 2: Catch you guys next time.