Latest / The Scene Projects / Richard Melbourne on Music, AI, and the Future of Independent Artists

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Richard Melbourne on Music, AI, and the Future of Independent Artists · The Scene Projects

• 0:18
  Welcome in to another exciting episode of the scene.
• 0:20
  I am your host Bubba Sartz, and with me today is producer, sometimes cohost, and my friend,
• 0:27
  Richard Melbourne.
• 0:28
  Richard, welcome to the show.
• 0:30
  And songwriter.
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  I'm a songwriter.
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  And songwriter.
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  Right.
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  Before producer.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, you just have too many damn things going on, brother.
• 0:37
  So forgive me.
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  I do.
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  I I like a full plate though.
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  It's just it can get a bit too full sometimes when you yeah.
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  You got artists ringing you at God know five in the morning from Africa just to tell you how
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  great your song is.
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  It's like, you alright?
• 0:52
  Yeah.
• 0:52
  Yeah.
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  You're good.
• 0:53
  Appreciate it.
• 0:54
  Yeah.
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  DND.
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  I'm gonna tell you right now, Richard Melbourne.
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  My my phone lives on it.
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  So before we get into everything that you're working on, I I know that, you know, obviously,
• 1:06
  you've become a big part of the scene projects and the Phoenix Rise family here recently.
• 1:12
  But before we get into all of that and these incredible opportunities that are that are
• 1:16
  befalling you right now, just wanna get a little bit of your backstory out there, and
• 1:19
  then we'll pick it up from there.
• 1:21
  Sure.
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  So I was born in South Yorkshire.
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  We're very working class upbringing to a single mother, and I I got bullied a lot of schools.
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  And when I was 14, I got given a guitar for Christmas, spent the next six to eight months
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  learning everything from what we start with, which is smoke on the water to Beatles to
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  everything Oasis.
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  I was a big Oasis fan when I was younger, Foo Fighters and stuff like that.
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  And then there was an expressive arts evening at school, like at Christmas.
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  I got up and did three songs.
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  One was Blur song two.
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  I think one was Little Richard and a Christmas song.
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  And then from that day forward, nobody ever picked on me again.
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  After after that, there was like it was like the the script flipped and I realized that
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  music was my passion and I was writing songs since day one.
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  So the first day I got a guitar, I wrote a song.
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  It wasn't very good.
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  I can't remember which one it was but I should probably remember to be fair.
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  But yeah.
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  So I know I was writing music up until probably 2000 and what was it?
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  06/07?
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  '5 no, '5.
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  It would have been '5.
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  And in 2005 started a band called No Avey on the TV.
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  We sort of came up in that Sheffield scene with Arctic Monkeys, Melbourne, Little Man Tate,
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  Reverend of the Makers, all these sort of bands that were coming out of Sheffield in South
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  Yorkshire at the time.
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  It was a big scene.
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  It's like when Manchester was in the nineties.
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  It was like Sheffield in 2005, 2006 was like the scene.
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  And we came up with that.
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  We started touring.
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  We played o two wireless festival with the Who, watched a football match for Roger Daltrey,
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  which was highlight of that.
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  Yeah.
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  And then we play we did a music video.
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  We won this competition called Road to V, which was on channel four, which is like a big
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  channel in The UK.
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  And we we came second on that and yeah.
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  And we thought did a lot of touring, but we were a wild band.
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  We were drinking a lot, doing a lot of sleeping on people's floors, touring in vans and stuff
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  and got to 2008 and I was just burnt out.
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  Went out on a night out, met a guy, offered me a place in university as a digital designer and
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  sort of changed careers.
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  Went to university just randomly overnight.
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  Did now I've been a designer ever since.
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  And then in 2018, picked a guitar up again, realized that that passion was still there and
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  just started writing again and songs just started flowing ever since.
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  Probably got about 60 songs now written that I just sat there that are decent.
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  I'm starting to bring them to fruition now.
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  But, yeah, that's pretty much it.
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  And then probably last couple of years again, been really just hard at it, just producing,
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  writing songs, playing guitar, just everything.
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  Yeah.
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  Been at this a long time.
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  What changes and this is gonna be a two parter.
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  Right?
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  What has changed for the better, and what has changed for the worse?
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  Well, I mean, there's been bad changes and good changes every generation going back to when
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  Dylan went electric to you know what I mean?
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  Coming forward to CDs, to Napster's, the live I dice to download on Napster.
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  I'm I'm OG when it comes to streaming.
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  Trying to download doctor Dre all night and your mom picks the phone up and cuts it off.
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  Yeah.
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  So so what's changed?
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  I mean, we'll get into the whole AI revolution soon.
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  But, like, yeah, I'd say the music industry died for me when Ed Sheeran had nine of the top
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  10 in The UK for his divide album.
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  That was when they started counting streams rather than album sales.
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  It was streams became part of the charts and I think that that was the moment I realized that,
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  okay, you shouldn't be able to have nine songs in the top 10 at the same time.
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  That's just crazy.
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  It was like that was sort of the flick switch for me when it went it went bad.
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  Like streaming was never a bad thing, but then when streams became part of the charts, I think
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  the charts became meaningless a little bit, like nobody really cares about chart positions
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  much anymore.
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  I think that the fact that artists people talk about why people don't go into a studio for a
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  year anymore and write an album and record an album.
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  There's no money.
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  There's no money in it anymore to like the stone roses, a big band from The UK, they spent
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  eighteen months in a massive studio recording their second album.
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  Nobody's gonna give them the money anymore to do that, to give an artist eighteen months in a
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  studio to find what the sound is they're looking for.
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  And I had a massive studio a couple years ago.
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  I spent about 20 to 30,000 on it, a lot of equipment, soundproofing everything.
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  And that was just to be able to record demos.
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  It was like at the point where technology had not got to the point where it could help you
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  enough and, like, the whole AI thing, there's good points and bad points.
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  I think that if you use it for creativity and to write your songs, that's not good.
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  You know, a song songwriter should be able to write lyrics, write melodies, use an
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  instrument, whether that's a guitar or piano.
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  But what it has done, it's allowed me to get a guitar, play something, turn that into a
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  saxophone, and put that back in the song.
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  And I think that's great because it's it's opened up a world where you don't need to be
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  spending thousands anymore to create songs.
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  So I think that I think AI should go into a plug in for Pro Tools where it masters your
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  song for you, it makes your song for you, or you say, take this layer and change it into a
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  saxophone, take this layer and change it into a piano, whatever, and integrate it like that,
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  like you do native instruments or waves or something like that, and make it for people who
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  actually write music rather than create me a song about ketchup or something.
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  You know what mean?
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  Just make it a tool for artists rather than a tool for anyone to use because I don't think
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  people have a problem with AI.
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  I think people have a problem with the amount of AI that's coming out.
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  The amount of songs that are flooding out from everybody, whether you're a songwriter or not.
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  So I think that the every generation, there's something that's been bad, something that's
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  been good.
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  I think the good thing about AI is it's broken the pay barrier down for artists.
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  The the studios used to control everything, where you could record, how you could record,
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  how much you could record, and it used to be about who had the most money.
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  There was a there was a an interesting theory about why people from rich backgrounds, kids
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  tend to do better in the music industry and tend to get more breaks, and it's because
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  they've got the money to promote it.
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  They've got the money to get their name out there and buy ads and buy all this and all that
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  and have the best studios and get engineers and stuff like that and songwriting teachers and
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  vocal coaches and and working class lads and girls and that don't get much breaks anymore.
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  I mean, look at Oasis.
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  I love Oasis.
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  There's no one's gonna walk into a bar anymore and give five lads from a council estate a
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  record deal.
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  That's those days are gone, where people with no money, no followers got a record deal.
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  Like, now you've got to have 100,000 followers before a label will even consider you, which is
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  crazy.
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  You could have the best song in the world, and they won't consider you because you don't have
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  enough social media followers.
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  That's where we're at with labels.
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  So when labels are kicking and screaming about AI, I think you've done this to yourself.
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  I'm sorry.
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  You have.
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  You've done this to yourself by not putting you've basically made it a business rather than
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  about the art.
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  It was an art form that made money.
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  Now it's a it's a business that has art part of it to make money.
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  So I think that's a a perfect way to put it, and it's a shame because we've both been in
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  this industry for a long time.
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  You, you know, similar to myself.
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  Right?
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  We never really truly made it.
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  We got to do some really cool things along the journey, but never made it to a point where it
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  was going to be a long term career for us.
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  And I think that both of us probably could have made it had we been born a decade earlier.
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  Right?
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  Had we caught a wave in the eighties where bands were still getting signed and doing
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  things, we would have been talented enough to do that.
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  But happenstance, born a decade too late that our coming of age was also in the age of the
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  music industry floundering and now being all but dead to the point that the sharks are just
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  eating the sharks.
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  Right?
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  The the major labels are buying up the other major labels, and Netflix is buying iHeart and
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  and all of these massive mergers and acquisitions that have been happening over the
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  last twelve months that I know a lot of artists probably don't follow, but it tow it tells you
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  where things are going.
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  And I think one positive that's going to come out of it is a thirst for organic music again,
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  for organic fan bases, for smaller communities.
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  Will you be selling out the o two?
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  Probably not.
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  But is that really what you need to, one, make a living as an artist and, two, feel like
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  you've succeeded?
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  And I think a lot of artists mindset around an artist career are changing as well, and we all
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  have access now to the tools at a very affordable price to record at home like you you
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  can in your beautiful home studio.
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  And, you know, there there's millions of those now.
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  Right?
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  Instead of being one studio in Abbey Road or, you know, that that have it here, we have
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  Capital Records out out in, you know, Los Angeles as well that are cranking out all of
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  this music.
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  We could have and be recording that quality of songs if you have the talent.
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  Right?
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  I I think it all comes back to that as well, but to be able to bring that.
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  But you could also hire the talent from around the world, get the best, and not have to fly
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  people in either.
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  We can send the stems back and forth and build really amazing music remotely.
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  I've done it myself for some of my songs, and I've also done it where I just had all my, you
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  know, my friends in a studio space.
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  And I don't see one of them being over the other.
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  I see it as music.
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  You know, I have not dipped my toes very much into the AI space.
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  It took me long enough to figure out how to do it on a guitar and and write songs myself.
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  I don't have time to write a learning curve to figure out AI, and I don't want to just offload
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  that creativity because that's, like, the only thing I have.
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  I don't have millions of fans.
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  I don't have a lot of those things.
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  So, like, that process to me is everything.
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  That that feeling at the end of it that, no.
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  I did that.
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  You can't take that away from me.
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  I did all of that.
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  And and I think we're going to get back to a space probably in the next three to five years
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  as now the AI companies are investing, you know, billions of dollars into it for
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  themselves, that their goal is to just push the artist out completely, build AI artists, build
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  AI music, and just own all of it and not have to pay a human being.
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  Famously, a friend of mine who worked at A and M Records back in the seventies said, you know,
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  the higher ups there is like, well, why don't why can't all these musicians go just go get
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  day jobs?
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  Like, why do we have to deal with them at all?
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  And and they've always been the industry has always been seeking to get the creative out of
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  the creation.
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  Yeah.
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  I mean, to be fair, I so for example, I do use AI for my demos because I hate working with
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  session singers, especially for demos because if you've ever done it, it's very painful.
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  I mean, most of my AI is vocals because I sing it into here as a guide vocal then replace it
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  because it is just a demo.
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  But the music and stuff I old I do myself, like, I even start some of this I got a synth
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  here, a mini Nova.
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  I've got usually two more keyboards here.
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  I've got my guitar there.
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  I've got another electric around the corner, and they all start on that and then the beats
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  usually done in Pro Tools and whether that's with splice or whatever or whether I've just
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  done it on the keyboard with the sort of different sounds and I'm actually investing a
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  new Roland because they got loads of cool sounds on it.
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  But I'm now putting out a song.
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  So I'm a songwriter, so technically my job would be to create a demo, send it to an artist
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  and go, do you love this song?
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  And they'll go and rerecord it anyway.
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  So what's the so there's no harm in using AI for that because I'm not putting it out saying,
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  this is my song.
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  This is my voice.
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  This is my I'm an artist.
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  This is my song.
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  No.
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  I'm saying, I've done a demo, sang the guide.
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  I think it'd be good for, say, Sabrina Carpenter.
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  So I find a voice that's fit sounds like Sabrina Carpenter, replace myself, send it to
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  her and go, what do you think?
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  Do you like it?
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  And she'll go, yeah.
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  Love it.
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  Okay.
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  So if it was to be released as a main song, which is why I'm doing one of my songs right
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  now, I then go back to the drawing board from scratch, do a brand new beat, pan everything
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  where it needs to be panned, whether get a session drummer in maybe or something, get a
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  new base, get a new whatever it needs.
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  Orchest I've got a full string arrangement being done right now by a professional orchest
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  orchestra and composer, and then it's all humans.
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  I wouldn't be putting something out as a release that's got any AI AI on it at all.
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  The AI is purely there to facilitate the demo and to get the rough idea of what we're doing
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  of like, oh, I need so for example, I've got next song I'm working on, I've got a trumpet.
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  I'm not gonna go pay somebody to come up with a trumpet line.
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  I can do that on the keyboard then replace it and then go get a real person to them, figure
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  out what the send them what I've done on the keyboard as notes and get them to record it
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  properly.
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  So if you're an artist, I think that you should be putting things out that are genuine, that
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  are human.
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  If you're a producer and a songwriter, I don't see the harm in using it a little bit to
• 14:25
  produce a demo because somebody's gonna rerecord it anyway.
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  But, unfortunately, what we have is all of these, I would call hobbyist songwriters and
• 14:34
  people who are fresh to it that plug something into Sunu are like, I wrote a song, and I got
• 14:39
  this.
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  And then they're like, I can put it on Spotify, so I'm gonna do that.
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  And what they don't realize is that they are devaluing all of music because of the way that
• 14:48
  these companies are set up and how they pay out that you're putting your song into a pool with
• 14:53
  something that somebody spent hundreds of hours creating and putting out there to the world and
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  went through all of those painstakingly hard moments to do.
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  And, so that's the double edged sword of the AI usage.
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  Right?
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  I agree with you, Richard.
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  And I think it's incredible that people who wouldn't, that don't have musical talent to be
• 15:13
  able to get the song that's inside of them, those feelings that are inside of them outside
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  of them.
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  I just don't think it's right that they should be able to then release that out into Spotify
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  and devalue our creations because we do it in the old way, I guess.
• 15:29
  The old fashioned way Yeah. Of
• 15:30
  Of actually playing instruments.
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  If I was to if I was to speak speak to Suno and sit him down, I would say, right.
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  You need a free version or whatever low price version that people can put write me a love
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  song that gets tagged one way, and then you have a hex so a version that you pay $500 a
• 15:48
  year for something that's a professional music version, which makes people upload a reference.
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  So you can't just say create me a love song.
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  You've got to upload a song already done or a guitar or anything, some sort of audio
• 16:00
  reference that's got to be uploaded.
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  And it gets tagged a different way where it said, this is using it some AI, but it's but
• 16:08
  done by a person who's a musician, and you've also it gives you the option to get rid of
• 16:13
  vocals.
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  You can have an instrumental.
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  You can take out tracks rather than having one render that's just a render.
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  You can everything's a separate track, so you can just take the base off or whatever and you
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  can get so you can mix the real with the AI, and it's not and but it's done by somebody who
• 16:27
  knows how to make music, and this is a professional version that's integrated with Pro
• 16:31
  Tools for the musician.
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  And then you've got this other version which is not allowed on Spotify, which is not allowed to
• 16:37
  be used to upload onto streaming and stuff like that.
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  Because you can tag files now with different tags that say this is allowed, that's not
• 16:44
  allowed.
• 16:45
  It's we do have that technology.
• 16:47
  So I think that there is room for AI moving forward.
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  We already have AI mixing and mastering mastering going on.
• 16:52
  It's not great.
• 16:54
  But I I mean, I still wouldn't use it even if it was.
• 16:57
  I'm thinking about this song that I'm doing.
• 16:58
  I said to you before the show, I'm actually inquired at two studios to get this mixed and
• 17:03
  mastered, Abbey Road and Rockfield.
• 17:06
  So the place where the Beatles went and the place where Bohemian Rhapsody was done because
• 17:09
  I want this song to be the best it can be.
• 17:11
  Also, I just wanna sit at that piano and play be play Bohemian Rhapsody.
• 17:15
  That's my dream.
• 17:16
  So but but yeah.
• 17:18
  But as I still think though, even a human engineer, they they're like an extra session
• 17:23
  musician to me.
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  A human engineer, Rooks.
• 17:25
  I can produce to a to a standard.
• 17:27
  I I still am the one who gets all the elements back and goes, right.
• 17:31
  That should go there.
• 17:32
  That should go there.
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  Cut that bit out.
• 17:34
  I don't want that.
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  I want that.
• 17:34
  And I I will produce the whole arrangement, and then the final mix will be done by a
• 17:39
  professional mixer who's been doing it for ten thousand hours or whatever in a professional
• 17:43
  studio because that's like hiring another session musician.
• 17:47
  They're good at what they do.
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  I'm good I'm good at ideas.
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  I'm good at writing.
• 17:50
  I'm good at knowing where to put things, but I don't know what compressor to use on what thing
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  and all this stuff.
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  That's their job.
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  You know what mean?
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  I like to work with people who know what they're doing and I would never proclaim to be
• 18:01
  the best at everything.
• 18:02
  I just know what I'm good at and then I hire people who are good at other things to to work
• 18:07
  with me sort of thing.
• 18:09
  Well, and that kinda brings us around to why the Scene Projects and the Phoenix Rise, you
• 18:14
  know, the the Scene Projects Academy and this community that we're building that you're
• 18:18
  becoming such an integral part of are are showing so much success in a short amount of
• 18:23
  time.
• 18:24
  Right?
• 18:24
  It's hard to believe looking back that AJ and I just met each other six months ago.
• 18:29
  Right?
• 18:29
  And and you even less and all these new artists that are coming in and coming in through the
• 18:35
  podcast of unsigned spotlight and and having the ability to connect with so many artists and
• 18:40
  then reaching back out to them and and having it when we need a vocalist that you're no
• 18:45
  longer just scouring the Internet.
• 18:47
  We're able to go to our community and to say, hey.
• 18:49
  We need this, this, and this.
• 18:51
  Is that you?
• 18:52
  And people are able to respond to that.
• 18:54
  And having seen success in that in a very short amount of time gives me a lot of excitement for
• 19:01
  the future of what we're growing and to get back to creating music with other humans,
• 19:07
  having the ability to create the demos with AI so that we're not we're not trying to
• 19:13
  necessarily, you know, reinvent the wheel.
• 19:15
  And it's here.
• 19:16
  Right?
• 19:16
  It's a it's not like it's going anywhere.
• 19:18
  It's not going to be outlawed.
• 19:20
  It's not going to not become a part of the music industry anytime soon.
• 19:23
  I think it's going to change.
• 19:24
  I think we're seeing with the lawsuits and things that are starting to come out.
• 19:27
  There's gonna be some massive changes in that world over the next eighteen months.
• 19:30
  It's the wild west and the usage sides.
• 19:33
  Right?
• 19:33
  Things that don't matter to people that are just creating music who don't have a lot of
• 19:38
  musical talent to bring out.
• 19:39
  But I think that the way you're using it to create demos instead of having to try and like
• 19:44
  you said, spend an exorbitant amount of money on studio musicians and then having to deal
• 19:49
  with all of those personalities and time and people just not doing it.
• 19:53
  When you can plug it into the AI at this point and in a couple hours, have it fleshed out the
• 19:58
  way that you wanted and go, okay.
• 20:00
  Now I need to find x y z players or performers or vocalists to to work into these spaces that
• 20:08
  I have filled in the gaps with.
• 20:10
  And I I don't see I don't find anything wrong with it.
• 20:12
  Honestly, I don't find anything wrong with the creation with AI for people that know nothing
• 20:17
  about music.
• 20:18
  I I don't have a problem with it.
• 20:19
  What I have a problem is that they have an open platform to be able to release it, which
• 20:22
  devalues the work that you're doing in your studio.
• 20:25
  Like, they're not the same thing.
• 20:27
  Right?
• 20:27
  And and I think that what we're working very hard now to do is to find that distinction.
• 20:35
  Right?
• 20:35
  And what are we going to do?
• 20:37
  But it's fine.
• 20:38
  I mean, it's not a big deal.
• 20:39
  If people are gonna listen to great.
• 20:41
  Right?
• 20:41
  They've already devalued the music industry for artists to the nth degree anyway.
• 20:47
  Right?
• 20:47
  So it's not that big of a deal, but there's still a little bit of you know, there there's
• 20:53
  still something in there, and I don't know if I necessarily feel it in, a I don't know if I
• 21:00
  feel it on a personal level.
• 21:01
  Right?
• 21:01
  I I don't know that I feel I just don't I don't care.
• 21:03
  If you're creating something, I think that's wonderful.
• 21:06
  But, and I'm not making any money off of my Spotify streams.
• 21:10
  The 12 monthly listeners that I have aren't moving the needle for me in that platform.
• 21:14
  I don't spend any money to push people onto that platform, but I have friends that do very
• 21:18
  well there.
• 21:19
  And I hate to see them lose what they have worked so hard to build because Johnny down the
• 21:25
  street learned how to use Suno and is just creating 50 songs a day that are all kinda
• 21:30
  crap, but Spotify is giving him an open lane to release them out there and devalue further the
• 21:36
  product that we've spent so many years, you know, honing our talent and then hours and
• 21:41
  hours and thousands of dollars to create and get out there onto the airwaves.
• 21:46
  So, like I said, double edged sword.
• 21:49
  I I still don't really know where I stand on all of it, but I hate to see artists who have
• 21:55
  just been beaten down over the last two decades because of the technology and streaming and
• 22:01
  where everything has gone to take another massive hit like this.
• 22:05
  And there's a there's some big conversations to be had in that realm.
• 22:09
  Yeah.
• 22:09
  And it's sad because a song like too little too late that I've got that I wrote about domestic
• 22:15
  abuse, physical abuse, AI can't write about that.
• 22:17
  That's a life experience that you have to go through the emotion and people feel that.
• 22:22
  They feel when a song was written by AI when somebody wrote it.
• 22:25
  They do and that's the problem.
• 22:27
  It doesn't matter what it sounds like.
• 22:28
  It's and I think you can I can tell whether a song is AI or not and the lyrics usually give
• 22:33
  it away to me?
• 22:34
  Like, the the not the vocals, the lyrics because it's still not very good at writing
• 22:38
  lyrics because lyrics it's like writing poetry.
• 22:41
  It's a human thing.
• 22:43
  Like, life experience goes into lyrics like it does poetry and stuff.
• 22:47
  So you can the funny thing is the people I've seen kicking off about it are all singers.
• 22:53
  There's no guitarist going, AI is taking my job.
• 22:56
  There's no drummers going, AI is taking my job.
• 22:58
  It's all singers.
• 22:59
  So I don't know what the correlation between that is, but I've seen a lot of vocalists
• 23:03
  really vocal about AI.
• 23:05
  But, like, none of the other musicians are going, I'm a guitarist and I'm like, whatever.
• 23:09
  I know what I do well.
• 23:11
  So I'm a songwriter.
• 23:12
  I I could get threatened and go, oh, it's gonna do what I can do and everything, but it can't
• 23:18
  do what I do.
• 23:18
  It can't do what other people do because it's a computer.
• 23:21
  Humans being
• 23:22
  express itself.
• 23:23
  It can't express the human experience, which is what music at its essence is.
• 23:29
  And and that's why I don't feel threatened and and why I support people that are out there
• 23:33
  creating.
• 23:34
  I just think that there needs to be some distinctions and a little bit of separation out
• 23:39
  there as far as, like, this was created, you know, using and maybe it's a percentage.
• 23:45
  Right?
• 23:45
  Maybe, hey.
• 23:46
  This was used 75% AI, but that's their real voice, and they wrote those lyrics or it's vice
• 23:51
  versa.
• 23:52
  Right?
• 23:53
  It's it's I created all the music, and I used an AI voice because I can't sing where the
• 23:58
  like, there's so many different angles to it.
• 24:00
  Right?
• 24:00
  It's such a nuance deep conversation.
• 24:03
  Maybe we should start another podcast, Richard, since we're becoming better and better friends
• 24:08
  just digging into AI every week and music and and what's happening in that world.
• 24:13
  I know that's exactly what we both need is one more thing to do.
• 24:16
  But Exactly.
• 24:19
  Tell me about you got a song coming out.
• 24:21
  AJ Waller, our brilliantly talented cohost and and and the founder of Phoenix Rise.
• 24:28
  You're a manager, but also a brilliant songwriter in his own right.
• 24:32
  You guys worked on a song together that's now going to be going out this June with Fathers
• 24:39
  for Justice.
• 24:40
  Tell me a little bit about, first of all, the process and then kind of that feeling of
• 24:45
  knowing that, like, oh, this song that we thought was really good is now going to be
• 24:51
  heard by millions of people.
• 24:53
  I mean, all credit goes to AJ for this.
• 24:55
  I just I I came in and helped.
• 24:58
  So his version was about eight minutes long, and it was like an epic epic song that I
• 25:05
  thought was like, I went and mowed the lawn and come back and it was still going.
• 25:09
  I was like, yeah.
• 25:09
  It's like but he had all these verses and he had he had a long chorus and stuff and he wrote
• 25:14
  all these amazing lyrics and this amazing melody.
• 25:17
  And the essence of the song was there and as a producer, when I'm I'm not write it's not my
• 25:22
  song I'm writing really, I'm just sort of producing.
• 25:25
  It's the producer's job to be impartial to come in and not be precious to the and go, right,
• 25:29
  cut that from the verse, that chorus needs to be cut out of there, put that in the bridge and
• 25:33
  stuff, and to arrange a song in a way that the the listener is captivated all the way through.
• 25:39
  They're not bored.
• 25:40
  They don't get stuck on the chorus too long.
• 25:42
  There's the bridge is in the right place.
• 25:43
  The breakdown happens at the right area.
• 25:45
  The solo is long enough.
• 25:47
  So I just came in and did that really.
• 25:48
  I came in and I restructured it.
• 25:50
  I changed it.
• 25:51
  It was more of a rock song, like heavy rock, and I came in and added a bit of an eighties
• 25:56
  flare to it, but I what I did with the e q was I I call it adding air.
• 26:01
  So at the top of the e q, pull it up so this sort of this breath to the song like an air and
• 26:06
  it just gave that sort of feeling.
• 26:08
  I know it it was weird.
• 26:10
  When I did that mix, it just had it.
• 26:13
  Sometimes you can't put a finger on what it is with a mix.
• 26:15
  Sometimes you do a mix and it's like, that's it.
• 26:17
  I don't know why, but that's it.
• 26:19
  There's just a feeling in the song, in the in the sound.
• 26:22
  It's just there.
• 26:23
  The vocals were on point and the vocals are really difficult to get.
• 26:28
  So we had a we tried a real singer and he had the right tone but not the right emotion.
• 26:34
  So the song is about age AJ's daughters and he hasn't seen them for a long time and stuff and
• 26:39
  and about he his sort of journey.
• 26:42
  And he was single, this guy, he had not had kids.
• 26:45
  And it's hard to explain to somebody who's not a father what being a father is like.
• 26:49
  Do you know I mean?
• 26:49
  I have four kids.
• 26:50
  I know exactly what being a father is like.
• 26:52
  You have kids.
• 26:52
  It's it's a feeling that you think you're gonna know what it feels like until you have it and
• 26:57
  then it's something you never forget but something you could have never expressed unless
• 27:00
  you feel it.
• 27:01
  It's one of those things.
• 27:03
  It's like, I can tell somebody what it's like to jump out of a plane but until you jump out
• 27:07
  of a plane in a parachute, you don't know what it's like.
• 27:09
  It's a feeling.
• 27:11
  So anyway, so we loved his tone and his delivery.
• 27:16
  So what I did was I managed to some to use a a program, another AI program but not Suno, to
• 27:22
  use my diction sort of thing but his tone and we sort of did like a mash up between the both,
• 27:28
  you know what I mean.
• 27:28
  And it sort of used my delivery, but his sort of vocal and tone and stuff.
• 27:33
  And it came out great.
• 27:34
  It was a lot of work though as far as like we used to call it tape work back in the day.
• 27:38
  So I've recorded on tape.
• 27:39
  I've recorded in a pig style.
• 27:40
  I've recorded on the karaoke machine.
• 27:42
  I've recorded on pretty much every so when people say to me, oh, it's AI.
• 27:46
  Use AI.
• 27:47
  I'm like, I have recorded on stuff that you'd probably didn't even know about, like, in
• 27:51
  places you probably didn't even know about.
• 27:52
  I have seen every generation of recording from, like, when but we used to do it on tape to now,
• 27:57
  so I'm not too bothered about what they say.
• 27:59
  But, yeah, the song in the end was really good.
• 28:04
  But I the Farbars for Justice thing, I didn't know he was gonna do it.
• 28:07
  He sent it off and I he said, oh, Farbars for Justice are interested.
• 28:10
  And they it was so funny because when we got Matt, the founder, he said, we get thousands of
• 28:14
  songs per year.
• 28:16
  Thousands.
• 28:16
  And I'm like, oh, not another song.
• 28:19
  Oh, not another song.
• 28:20
  And they must get loads of songs, especially now with AI.
• 28:22
  Can you imagine how many people are sending them songs?
• 28:25
  And his team said, no.
• 28:27
  You need to play this.
• 28:28
  You need to listen to it.
• 28:29
  So he played it and he got back and said, we love it.
• 28:32
  We'd like to use it for our twenty fifth anniversary.
• 28:35
  And we said, yes.
• 28:36
  And then it was like, right.
• 28:37
  We need a video.
• 28:37
  We need teasers.
• 28:38
  We need this.
• 28:39
  We need a cover.
• 28:39
  We need.
• 28:40
  So then it was down to me to like,
• 28:41
  oh, wait.
• 28:42
  We need it all tomorrow or yesterday.
• 28:44
  Pretty much.
• 28:45
  Yeah.
• 28:45
  It was like, we've got a week to do two teasers, which we did.
• 28:49
  So we come up with a concept for the video.
• 28:51
  Now we can't go out and shoot a bespoke video.
• 28:54
  We don't have the time.
• 28:54
  We've got a month till till father's day and we had literally a week until the teasers.
• 28:59
  But what I did have was access to a lot of shoots that have been done by professional
• 29:03
  videographers of all sorts of different stuff, and it's all I can use and I do use it for my
• 29:09
  own videos.
• 29:10
  So but it's coming up with a concept that fits because you think for a five minute video, it's
• 29:14
  nearly five minutes.
• 29:16
  There's not gonna be enough clips to have one character or one thing, so we need a concept
• 29:20
  that can go across five minutes but have a familiar feel.
• 29:25
  So what I came up with was try and find as much footage of fathers with their daughters, with
• 29:30
  their sons as possible, but like home movie footage.
• 29:33
  So that was one angle to the concept.
• 29:36
  So the concept is we've got all these fathers looking out at the ocean, which is the songs
• 29:40
  called Oceans Keep Us Apart.
• 29:42
  And they're all looking a bit somber obviously because they miss their kids and daughters and
• 29:46
  stuff and they're thinking about their families.
• 29:48
  And then interweaving that with home movie footage of kids playing and stuff and like so
• 29:54
  it's like their memories.
• 29:55
  So suddenly you're tapping into them.
• 29:56
  They're looking at the ocean and then it goes to a and it's really clear in four k and it's
• 30:00
  got good all all being colorized the same.
• 30:04
  And then every different person cuts to a different child in their memory in, a home
• 30:08
  movie footage.
• 30:09
  So it's like you you tugging on the heartstrings a little bit, getting a glimpse
• 30:12
  into what they're thinking about while they're looking at the ocean, while they're walking
• 30:15
  around, while they're doing this.
• 30:16
  And I thought, I can get enough fathers, five or six, and get enough to be able to cut this
• 30:22
  together and it'd be like this, not just about one father, not just about it's about all
• 30:27
  fathers and about their their memories of their kids and the fact they all miss them and stuff.
• 30:31
  So so yeah.
• 30:32
  So it was coming up with a concept really and finding the footage.
• 30:35
  But The song, it's all AJ.
• 30:36
  I just came in and produced it.
• 30:38
  I just came in and went, that bit's good.
• 30:40
  That bit's good.
• 30:40
  Get rid of that bit.
• 30:41
  That bit, we need to be sound more eighties.
• 30:43
  We need to have a bit more symph here and stuff.
• 30:45
  So but it was his song.
• 30:46
  His melody, I just trimmed and made it sound a bit better.
• 30:50
  So
• 30:51
  Well, that's gonna be such a massive moment for all of us.
• 30:54
  Right?
• 30:54
  And one of those watershed moments for everything that we've been building and
• 31:01
  growing, and what an incredible an incredible feeling for AJ.
• 31:06
  I know it is.
• 31:07
  We talk every day.
• 31:08
  In fact, I I'm well behind on my daily phone call with them now.
• 31:12
  But to have Fathers for Justice feel the emotion in the song and to say, we want to use
• 31:19
  this for our twenty fifth anniversary, and we want to have this as our flagship and to have
• 31:25
  that out there.
• 31:26
  And especially when you consider the thousands of submissions that they're getting year over
• 31:31
  year to be selected is an incredible honor.
• 31:35
  And I know I'm just so proud of AJ.
• 31:38
  I'm so proud of you guys for pulling this all together in a short amount of time.
• 31:42
  And I can't wait to see I can't wait to see what it does.
• 31:46
  Right?
• 31:47
  But I also can't wait to see the lives that it changes as these fathers listen to it and go,
• 31:52
  that's my story.
• 31:53
  Right?
• 31:54
  Because that's what music is, and that's what AI can't replace because AI can never tell my
• 32:00
  story.
• 32:01
  And I think that's that's a great way to put a bow on this conversation at least, Richard.
• 32:08
  I know we got your you know, everybody can find your music, Spotify and YouTube, Raw 84, r a w
• 32:15
  84, Spotify and YouTube for our audio only listeners.
• 32:18
  Video, you guys can see it scrolling across the bottom.
• 32:21
  Richard, it's been an absolute pleasure getting to know you over the last few months and
• 32:26
  getting to actually spend some time with you here chatting today.
• 32:30
  Anything else that you wanna plug before I let you go?
• 32:35
  Well, no.
• 32:35
  I mean, to be fair, my my stuff's gonna be really big big going out in, like, July,
• 32:40
  August.
• 32:41
  So I'm aiming for July, August to get these songs out.
• 32:44
  But I want it to be right.
• 32:45
  I've gotta get it mixed.
• 32:46
  Like I said, I'm looking for rappers.
• 32:47
  I'm looking for singers, I'm looking for the right voices.
• 32:50
  I've got 50 songs and I'm starting with this one and then I'm just gonna keep making them
• 32:54
  better and releasing them and at the end, putting all the giving opportunities to all
• 32:59
  these in these good people that we found in the scenes project as well.
• 33:03
  I'm looking forward to working with yourself on a song.
• 33:05
  We've got a song that we're working on together, which is really exciting.
• 33:09
  So that that looking forward to that as well.
• 33:10
  I think the summer's gonna be busy.
• 33:12
  I'm already busy.
• 33:13
  I think the summer's gonna get even more busy.
• 33:15
  So
• 33:16
  Yep.
• 33:17
  I couldn't agree more, and I'm looking forward to creating a lot of music with you over the
• 33:22
  rest of our lives and creating music with a lot of other really talented artists.
• 33:26
  So all you artists, please join our academy, thesceneprojects.com/academy.
• 33:31
  Find out more about us and everything that we're doing.
• 33:34
  Have an opportunity to work with AJ and have him guide your career in much the same way that
• 33:38
  he is guiding Richards now.
• 33:40
  And, you know, if you need a producer, we know a guy.
• 33:44
  So absolutely adore you, Richard.
• 33:47
  I I think you're a wonderful addition to our team, and I'm really happy to have you as part
• 33:51
  of the scene.
• 33:52
  So thank you.
• 33:53
  Happy to be here, mate.
• 33:54
  Always.