Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / [EP 411] Paul Weller: The Ever-Changing Man with Kevin Sedelmeier

Transcript

[EP 411] Paul Weller: The Ever-Changing Man with Kevin Sedelmeier · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

0:00
Speaker 1: It doesn't help when you appear on The Tonight Show
0:02
Speaker 1: supporting your first solo album and Jay Leno refers to
0:05
Speaker 1: you as Peter Weller, like Robocop. For a young fellow
0:08
Speaker 1: like me at the time in college, that was a travesty.
0:10
Speaker 1: How do you not know that?
0:12
Speaker 2: We're totally booked.
0:13
Speaker 1: Rock and roll! Well, I think I'll leave you to
0:16
Speaker 1: your reading. Little Hand says it's time to rock and roll.
0:19
Speaker 1: Rock and roll! We are totally booked.
0:27
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Booked on Rock, conversations with authors, musicians,
0:30
Speaker 2: and insiders revealing the stories behind classic rock's greatest songs, albums,
0:35
Speaker 2: and artists. And if you enjoy the show and you
0:38
Speaker 2: would like to contribute, you can sign up for the
0:40
Speaker 2: Booked on Rock backstage pass on Patreon for just $ 5
0:44
Speaker 2: a month. You'll get every episode commercial free and before
0:46
Speaker 2: everyone else. You can use the link in the show
0:48
Speaker 2: notes or visit BookedOnRock.com. Now on to our guests. Few
0:52
Speaker 2: artists have built a career as varied, influential artists and
0:56
Speaker 2: fiercely independent as Paul Weller, from the urgency of the
0:59
Speaker 2: jam and the musical reinvention of the style council to
1:02
Speaker 2: a solo career that has stretched across decades. My guest
1:06
Speaker 2: is author Kevin Settlemyer, whose book, Paul Weller, Song by Song,
1:10
Speaker 2: takes a deep dive into every track of Weller's solo career,
1:14
Speaker 2: uncovering the stories, influences, and creative choices behind one of
1:18
Speaker 2: British music's most enduring and respected artists. Welcome to the podcast, Kevin.
1:23
Speaker 1: Well, thank you, Eric. I Appreciate being here very much.
1:26
Speaker 2: What a career Paul Weller has had. You were saying
1:29
Speaker 2: just before we started recording, the first idea was maybe
1:33
Speaker 2: to include everything into one book. Yes.
1:37
Speaker 1: So when I pitched it, I had read a Kate
1:39
Speaker 1: Bush song by song. And this was over four years ago,
1:44
Speaker 1: maybe June of 22. And I just thought, do you
1:47
Speaker 1: all have any interest? So I did the book proposal.
1:50
Speaker 1: And yeah, they're all good. And then along the way,
1:54
Speaker 1: They said, hey, it's too long because there's 35 or
1:58
Speaker 1: so studio albums. And so we split it up. And
2:01
Speaker 1: by that time, I had to go back and separate
2:04
Speaker 1: the like the works cited, which doesn't sound like a
2:07
Speaker 1: big deal, but it kind of was just because there's
2:10
Speaker 1: so many and you want to be as accurate as
2:12
Speaker 1: you can. But then they split it up. So it's
2:14
Speaker 1: all good. But it would have been like a tome
2:17
Speaker 1: because he has so many.
2:19
Speaker 2: You open the book with that disconnect between Paul Weller's
2:22
Speaker 2: enormous stature in Britain and And the fact that many
2:24
Speaker 2: Americans still barely know who he is. Why do you
2:27
Speaker 2: think Weller never translated to America the way so many
2:30
Speaker 2: other British artists did?
2:32
Speaker 1: Well, that's a great point that so many other ones did.
2:35
Speaker 1: So you don't hear people say the Clash were too British.
2:39
Speaker 1: But if it were the accent, Joe Shrummer and Weller
2:43
Speaker 1: kind of had a similar, I guess, accent when they sang.
2:47
Speaker 1: I think a couple of things. I don't think it
2:48
Speaker 1: was that important. And not just Weller, but I've never
2:52
Speaker 1: got the impression that whether it was Rick or Bruce
2:56
Speaker 1: in the Jam or Mick or Steve or Dee, that
2:59
Speaker 1: it was a big deal. Now, obviously, money and record
3:02
Speaker 1: sales would be pretty awesome. But as an example, in
3:06
Speaker 1: the Jam, while they were touring America, when Going Underground
3:10
Speaker 1: hit number one, they just got up and left and
3:14
Speaker 1: went to Britain to do Top of the Pops. And
3:17
Speaker 1: so they just abandoned the tour. And even before that,
3:20
Speaker 1: they were opening for, I think, Blue Oyster Colt. or
3:24
Speaker 1: in the late 70s. Weird. Which, no, knock on wood.
3:27
Speaker 2: But it's an odd.
3:29
Speaker 1: It sure is. And so they appeared. He was on
3:33
Speaker 1: Tom Snyder in a panel one time in the late 70s,
3:37
Speaker 1: early 80s. They were on Fridays. He was on American Bandstand.
3:42
Speaker 1: They were the jam war. But it didn't, I don't
3:46
Speaker 1: think enough time went into it just because he didn't
3:49
Speaker 1: care as much. It wasn't a priority to, And over
3:53
Speaker 1: the years, he's kind of been good about being appreciative
3:57
Speaker 1: of the loyalty, even though the numbers aren't obviously there.
4:00
Speaker 1: And it's always disappointing when I point out Paul Weller
4:04
Speaker 1: and people don't know, because to me, that's like Springsteen
4:09
Speaker 1: or Jeff Lynne or something like everybody should know this person,
4:12
Speaker 1: don't they? And so and also it doesn't help when
4:16
Speaker 1: you appear on The Tonight Show and play supporting your
4:20
Speaker 1: first solo album and Jay Leno refers to as Peter Weller,
4:23
Speaker 1: like Robocop. Yeah. And I remember watching that.
4:26
Speaker 2: That's in the book. You mentioned that.
4:28
Speaker 1: Yeah. That was a, for a young fellow like me
4:31
Speaker 1: at the time in college, it was a travesty. Like,
4:33
Speaker 1: how do you not know that? But anyways, so I
4:36
Speaker 1: don't think it was a real big effort to do so. Um,
4:39
Speaker 1: I think he's appreciative of it, but I don't, I
4:42
Speaker 1: don't think he misses that opportunity. And I don't even
4:46
Speaker 1: know if he would do differently really, but, um, Which
4:51
Speaker 1: is interesting, because he even said to me, when we
4:54
Speaker 1: saw him in Chicago, and I kind of explained my fandom,
4:59
Speaker 1: and he's like, I didn't know anybody in Kentucky knew
5:02
Speaker 1: who I was. And so that just struck me as,
5:05
Speaker 1: it's odd that in our own little worlds, you know,
5:09
Speaker 1: you have a big, big, they're your big star, and
5:12
Speaker 1: other people don't even know who they are.
5:14
Speaker 2: By the end of the 80s, he had that enormous
5:16
Speaker 2: success with the jam and the style council behind him.
5:20
Speaker 2: But then he goes from that to having no band,
5:23
Speaker 2: no record deal, very little confidence. Do you think losing
5:27
Speaker 2: almost everything professionally was ultimately necessary for the solo artist
5:31
Speaker 2: that he became?
5:32
Speaker 1: I think maybe the lyrics did turn, I think, around
5:37
Speaker 1: that time, meaning less political. That was a humbling time, firstly,
5:43
Speaker 1: because he also sold Solid Bond Studios because he needed
5:47
Speaker 1: the money. And that's when the record was first released.
5:52
Speaker 1: I remember getting the CD single, Ear Existence. It was
5:56
Speaker 1: a great record store here in Louisville. And they had
5:59
Speaker 1: the very first Into Tomorrow, about May of 91. And
6:04
Speaker 1: that was on Freedom High Records. I'm like, well, I
6:06
Speaker 1: don't know what that is. That was just his own.
6:08
Speaker 1: He put up the money to call his label that.
6:11
Speaker 1: And then the Japanese company took it over. They distributed it.
6:15
Speaker 1: So here's a fellow with all of those like literally
6:19
Speaker 1: multiple number one albums and singles. And he couldn't get a, well,
6:25
Speaker 1: very few gigs. I think Ding Wells might've been one
6:29
Speaker 1: of the binger ones in England. And that might've been two,
6:31
Speaker 1: 300 people. And he was, it had to be quite
6:34
Speaker 1: humbling to him. And I got the impression from researching
6:39
Speaker 1: stuff that DC Lee said he kind of was miserable
6:41
Speaker 1: at times.
6:42
Speaker 2: Of course. I mean, that messes with your head.
6:44
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. But you know, it may, maybe it's, um, Interesting.
6:49
Speaker 1: It could be quite humbling, I suppose. But as it
6:53
Speaker 1: turned out, like you said, there's a silver lining there.
6:57
Speaker 1: And his creativity started coming back. And he got time
7:01
Speaker 1: to spend with his two youngest, oldest kids, his two
7:05
Speaker 1: youngest at that time. So it probably was a cathartic thing,
7:10
Speaker 1: but it's not like he asked for it. That's for sure.
7:13
Speaker 2: How challenging was it for you to interpret his songs?
7:17
Speaker 2: Because he doesn't particularly... like analyzing where songs come from
7:21
Speaker 2: and he's called the creative process almost impossible to explain.
7:25
Speaker 2: So what was your approach in that sense?
7:27
Speaker 1: There are some songs that you, you, like any other artist,
7:30
Speaker 1: you can, you can kind of go back and, and
7:33
Speaker 1: he will say, Oh, this one came from this painting. Um,
7:37
Speaker 1: wings of speed originated from a painting he saw. And
7:41
Speaker 1: so there are those that are pretty tangible. Um, that
7:44
Speaker 1: pleasure from the situation in Minnesota a few years ago.
7:48
Speaker 1: There are some things he's written in response. But it's
7:51
Speaker 1: kind of hard sometimes because his style of writing has
7:56
Speaker 1: changed a bit. Not so much in the 90s, but
7:59
Speaker 1: obviously in the past few years. So there are some
8:02
Speaker 1: songs I really love. I can't find any. I'm just
8:06
Speaker 1: giving my nickel and dime on a few of them
8:09
Speaker 1: because I can't find any record of him even necessarily
8:13
Speaker 1: talking about a meaning and some are more evident, you know,
8:17
Speaker 1: above the clouds, self-doubt creeped into a lot of the
8:21
Speaker 1: songs in the early nineties. And so I think instead
8:23
Speaker 1: of looking outwardly at the British society in politics, the nineties,
8:29
Speaker 1: and after that period, you mentioned, I think he started
8:31
Speaker 1: maybe looking inward a little bit. So self-doubt seems to
8:34
Speaker 1: crop up a lot on those first three albums is a,
8:37
Speaker 1: is a theme. Yeah.
8:39
Speaker 2: The first one was the self-titled debut in 1992 coming
8:42
Speaker 2: out of the style council. Weller said that he had
8:45
Speaker 2: become so dependent on sequencers that he'd almost forgotten how
8:48
Speaker 2: to build a song with guitar or piano. But then
8:51
Speaker 2: Into Tomorrow became the first song in a long time
8:53
Speaker 2: that genuinely felt right to him. What came together, in
8:57
Speaker 2: your opinion, during that period that allowed him to rediscover
8:59
Speaker 2: his instincts as a songwriter?
9:02
Speaker 1: I kind of think maybe that the modernism of the
9:06
Speaker 1: new decade, which was the 89 style council rejected by Polidore.
9:11
Speaker 1: So here's your label you've had for 12 years and
9:14
Speaker 1: you've had them once and they say this just isn't
9:16
Speaker 1: good enough. And so, you know, in hindsight, trying to
9:20
Speaker 1: be objective, it would certainly be, I think it would
9:24
Speaker 1: probably be 35 maybe on my list of all the albums,
9:29
Speaker 1: but I appreciated the direction. But like you said, it
9:32
Speaker 1: was all sequencers. There's like saxophone, there's some horns on
9:36
Speaker 1: maybe one track, but it's pretty much behind a computer
9:41
Speaker 1: or keyboard. And there's no guitar. Well, I shouldn't say no,
9:44
Speaker 1: very little. And so I think an artist such as him,
9:48
Speaker 1: there is an organic element to music. And I think
9:51
Speaker 1: he kind of realized maybe I should get back to
9:54
Speaker 1: that because he used the stuff during the Style Council days,
9:59
Speaker 1: but it essence it was very soulful and it didn't
10:03
Speaker 1: feel that way to me at least on that last
10:05
Speaker 1: rejected record and so I think he got back to
10:07
Speaker 1: basics and some people said he would say he would
10:11
Speaker 1: not play the guitar for a brief period there in
10:13
Speaker 1: the late 80s or publicly which I'm not sure why
10:17
Speaker 1: but it was a nice return to form because like
10:21
Speaker 1: you said, it leads off of the guitar riff right away. And, um,
10:25
Speaker 1: it shows that modernism, the mod, uh, looking into tomorrow
10:29
Speaker 1: and into the future. So it was a different change. And,
10:32
Speaker 1: and be honest with you, I think the B side,
10:35
Speaker 1: here's a new thing. It, it ranks right up there
10:38
Speaker 1: to me with his top 10 solo songs. And nobody
10:41
Speaker 1: ever mentions that because it's, it's a horror. It's just
10:45
Speaker 1: a wonderful slice. of soul music basically. But yeah, I
10:49
Speaker 1: think you're right. I think he got tired of not
10:51
Speaker 1: being organic, not sitting down with a guitar or a piano.
10:56
Speaker 1: And he wanted to get back to some basics really.
10:59
Speaker 2: And what were his roots in their soul? There's quite
11:02
Speaker 2: a few influences there.
11:04
Speaker 1: Here's more. As I looked in this, I knew about
11:08
Speaker 1: a lot. I mean, obviously you knew the kinks and
11:11
Speaker 1: the who and how he revered Townsend and Ray Davies
11:15
Speaker 1: as songwriters, but, In the early 90s, he got into
11:20
Speaker 1: people who I wouldn't have thought previously, and people, you know,
11:24
Speaker 1: Neil Young and Steve Winwood.
11:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, that Neil Young, I hear it. Reading your book,
11:31
Speaker 2: I would never have thought of that before, but reading
11:33
Speaker 2: the book, I'm like, wow, there's some guitar work in
11:36
Speaker 2: there that's very Neil Young-like, or more so Crosby, Stills, Nash,
11:41
Speaker 2: and Young. Oh, yes.
11:43
Speaker 1: Well, he even covered Ohio on a B-side in that era.
11:48
Speaker 1: And I think the pastoral nature of those first couple albums,
11:53
Speaker 1: like Country off the second one, Wildwood, it's very much
11:58
Speaker 1: of that sort of feel.
12:01
Speaker 2: And I don't... Was he a Dylan fan?
12:05
Speaker 1: You know, that's funny. He did cover all along the Watchtower,
12:09
Speaker 1: but His version was, I think, more of like Hendrix.
12:14
Speaker 1: So it really wasn't. I don't hear him talk about
12:17
Speaker 1: Dylan much. He will talk. Well, and he never talked
12:21
Speaker 1: about Bowie until I would say that I was aware
12:25
Speaker 1: of publicly until, you know, maybe 15 years ago. And
12:28
Speaker 1: he starts saying how much he likes her now. And
12:31
Speaker 1: then he named one of his sons Bowie. So back then, though,
12:36
Speaker 1: there was a. In the late 70s, he would go
12:40
Speaker 1: on record and say, I don't want to listen to
12:41
Speaker 1: music from people with beards. And so he didn't like
12:46
Speaker 1: that whole sort of arena rock. And it's really interesting
12:50
Speaker 1: how people mature and think that, you know, Robert Plant
12:54
Speaker 1: and Paul Weller duet on the last album of covers.
12:59
Speaker 1: So I think you're right. There's Northern soul music, American
13:04
Speaker 1: soul artists who I have no idea who they are.
13:08
Speaker 1: They're big for them. Nolan Porter. I couldn't have told
13:11
Speaker 1: you who that was. Yet he covers him. And then
13:14
Speaker 1: his sort of protege is kind of the Stone Foundation.
13:18
Speaker 1: They sing a song with Nolan Porter. And then he
13:20
Speaker 1: gets on stage with Weller in L.A. And people I
13:24
Speaker 1: was not aware of. So it's kind of all over
13:27
Speaker 1: the place from obviously the Beatles. I guess everybody's influence
13:31
Speaker 1: of that age. But you're right. He started getting more,
13:34
Speaker 1: I think, of the singer-songwriter of that time. And then
13:38
Speaker 1: he kind of, a little bit of the soul was
13:40
Speaker 1: on hold. Not completely. Above the Clouds is very Marvin
13:44
Speaker 1: Gage to me. So he did. He kind of embraced
13:49
Speaker 1: more stuff. And that's even more so now, I think.
13:53
Speaker 2: You mentioned Wildwood. That restored his reputation in 1993. Much
13:57
Speaker 2: of it made with musicians playing together live. Sunflower was
14:01
Speaker 2: essentially captured in two takes. The title track was built
14:04
Speaker 2: around an unusually simple repeating chord sequence. How important were instinct, simplicity,
14:10
Speaker 2: and spontaneity to what made that album work?
14:13
Speaker 1: I think that was sort of the answer to the sequencers, period.
14:20
Speaker 1: I mean, I still like Life at a Top People's
14:22
Speaker 1: Health Farm from 88, but even on that album for
14:26
Speaker 1: the Style Council, half of it was pop and a
14:29
Speaker 1: little bit of sequencing, but the other half was orchestral.
14:33
Speaker 1: So I don't think he ever would say fully embrace that.
14:37
Speaker 1: But when he did it and then went back to
14:39
Speaker 1: real instruments and sometimes he would be in the studio
14:44
Speaker 1: and maybe he and Steve White would just start playing.
14:46
Speaker 1: And there's a there's a really good video online of
14:48
Speaker 1: Steve White describing like like Sunflower and then drumming on
14:52
Speaker 1: that song. And so it was way more organic. I'm
14:57
Speaker 1: going to say fewer over overdubs. I don't know for sure,
15:01
Speaker 1: because back then Steve Craddock wasn't on the album. And
15:04
Speaker 1: so Weller, most of the time played all guitars or
15:09
Speaker 1: most of the time. So there was mixing and stuff,
15:11
Speaker 1: but you're right. It is much more, he and Steve
15:14
Speaker 1: White and whoever at the time was the bassist, Damon,
15:18
Speaker 1: or in that case, Nelson, Marco Nelson. Yeah, they were
15:22
Speaker 1: there together playing. It was much more of a old
15:26
Speaker 1: school and I think it made it more intimate as
15:29
Speaker 1: well on those albums.
15:33
Speaker 2: And then there was 95 Stanley Road. And it takes
15:37
Speaker 2: that regained confidence that Weller had and turns it into
15:41
Speaker 2: his biggest solo success, The Changing Man. Interesting. Borrowed noticeably
15:46
Speaker 2: from an ELO song. Is it 10538 Overture?
15:49
Speaker 1: Indeed, yeah.
15:50
Speaker 2: Yeah. And You Do Something to Me became one of
15:53
Speaker 2: his most beloved songs, despite being far less straightforwardly romantic
16:00
Speaker 2: than people assume was this the point where he became
16:02
Speaker 2: completely comfortable drawing on his influences without being defined by.
16:07
Speaker 1: That i think weller probably liked the move as a
16:12
Speaker 1: young guy more than he paid attention to yellow um
16:15
Speaker 1: although he did there's a quote somewhere of him saying
16:20
Speaker 1: if we get sued that's on you brendan the producer
16:24
Speaker 1: um and and so the irony is i just wonder
16:27
Speaker 1: fast forwarded 15 years when Bev Bevan comes to drum
16:31
Speaker 1: on two tracks on Wake Up the Nation. Did that
16:34
Speaker 1: conversation ever, I mean, it wasn't Bev's song that he wrote,
16:37
Speaker 1: but did that come up? That would be really interesting
16:40
Speaker 1: to hear at that time. I don't know. Well, it
16:45
Speaker 1: was just, I wouldn't say Stanley wrote, you're right. He's
16:50
Speaker 1: like the only album, maybe his biggest selling ever. He
16:54
Speaker 1: was well over a million just in England.
16:57
Speaker 2: Number one in the UK.
16:59
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. That's the thing.
17:00
Speaker 2: Weller's four times platinum album.
17:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. And even in America, you do something
17:06
Speaker 1: to me, I think was in the movie. I don't know.
17:09
Speaker 1: I haven't thought about this in years. The truth about
17:10
Speaker 1: cats and dogs. Back when my wife and I were dating,
17:14
Speaker 1: we'd see a movie all the time. And then all
17:17
Speaker 1: of a sudden. I hear that. I almost want to
17:19
Speaker 1: tell everybody in the theater. Yeah, it was stranger than fiction.
17:24
Speaker 1: I think it's it was maybe that's entertainment. The Will
17:26
Speaker 1: Ferrell movie is just and I'm like, oh, my gosh,
17:29
Speaker 1: that's great.
17:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's cool. That means somebody who's the producer or
17:32
Speaker 2: director is a fan.
17:33
Speaker 1: Right.
17:34
Speaker 2: It's got to be.
17:35
Speaker 1: Well, I was the goober who as a kid, as
17:39
Speaker 1: a teen in the 80s, rented the VHS of Vision Quest.
17:43
Speaker 1: just to see where Shout to the Top by the
17:45
Speaker 1: Style Council was. Wow. And, of course, it was buried
17:49
Speaker 1: in a scene in a restaurant you could barely hear.
17:52
Speaker 2: That's awesome, but you are hardcore. That's the kind of
17:56
Speaker 2: stuff I do.
17:57
Speaker 1: Oh, good. Thank you. It makes me feel a little
18:00
Speaker 1: more normal.
18:00
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I've said it pretty much every episode
18:03
Speaker 2: how much I love Van Halen, but when David Lee
18:06
Speaker 2: Roth was solo and his career was really, you know,
18:09
Speaker 2: nobody was really following him much. And he had a
18:11
Speaker 2: song in the Sergeant Bilko soundtrack with Steve Martin and,
18:17
Speaker 2: and it was called bad habits. And I just remember
18:20
Speaker 2: renting it and why, Oh my God, that's Dale. Where's that? What,
18:25
Speaker 2: when did you record it? You know, I want to
18:26
Speaker 2: know everything about it. You know, it's so funny.
18:28
Speaker 1: Back then it wasn't like today you could go on
18:32
Speaker 1: a record store and see something that just came out
18:34
Speaker 1: and you, you didn't know it.
18:36
Speaker 2: Right.
18:36
Speaker 1: It's just so different now, but, But yes, thank you
18:40
Speaker 1: for that's good. It makes it a little bit better. Now,
18:43
Speaker 1: I hope you didn't take it to the full extreme
18:45
Speaker 1: that when my wife and I were dating, this would
18:48
Speaker 1: have been, you said, Stanley Rowe, probably right after Stanley Rowe.
18:52
Speaker 1: And I gave her a quiz. She had to identify,
18:55
Speaker 1: was it the jam, the style counselor, or Paul Waller-Solo?
18:59
Speaker 1: And despite her pathetic performance, we didn't break up. But
19:04
Speaker 1: now she's the one who texts me when WFPK in
19:07
Speaker 1: town plays one of his songs. So it's come full circle.
19:11
Speaker 2: I love it. That's awesome. And by the way, all
19:13
Speaker 2: these albums, you know, going through while I was reading
19:16
Speaker 2: the book and preparing, it's like all of these UK,
19:20
Speaker 2: all these albums in the UK charts, top 10, most
19:23
Speaker 2: of them, number two, number one. I mean, several at
19:27
Speaker 2: number two, several number one. top five i mean it's
19:30
Speaker 2: amazing i mean then but you go over to the
19:33
Speaker 2: right side of the screen you look under us and
19:36
Speaker 2: none of them charted except for one which was a
19:40
Speaker 2: sonic kicks in 2012 made it to 166 that's his.
19:45
Speaker 1: You're right and that and to me as a long
19:49
Speaker 1: time fan that's not there's a few the best song
19:52
Speaker 1: was left off to me Starlight but the point is
19:56
Speaker 1: that's surprising and he has appeared during that time on
20:01
Speaker 1: like late night television on Jimmy Kimmel what was the
20:06
Speaker 1: other he was on something I don't think Jimmy Fallon
20:08
Speaker 1: but But the point is that he has, when he's
20:10
Speaker 1: in America, made some appearances. And I think the really
20:14
Speaker 1: good interviewer on CBS, the Mason fellow, I think he
20:18
Speaker 1: interviewed him even. So it's not like he is not
20:22
Speaker 1: has any sort of presence. I don't think the promotion
20:26
Speaker 1: is particularly good. And I don't know if back then
20:30
Speaker 1: Polydor or Island or Go or Disc or whatever would think, well,
20:35
Speaker 1: he's a little too old to break. And so maybe
20:38
Speaker 1: we don't want to invest as much. Yeah.
20:41
Speaker 2: You don't think about that. The average fan may not
20:45
Speaker 2: think about that, but if you study this stuff enough,
20:46
Speaker 2: you realize it's management. It's the label. It's like, how
20:50
Speaker 2: much are they getting behind it?
20:53
Speaker 1: Sure. And really he's only had one top 40 single
20:57
Speaker 1: in America in any incarnation. Yeah.
20:59
Speaker 2: What's what would be his most popular song as a
21:02
Speaker 2: solo artist? And then what would be, What would be
21:04
Speaker 2: a song by the jam or style council that somebody
21:06
Speaker 2: here in the States knows?
21:08
Speaker 1: To me, in the States, probably Town Called Malice. It
21:12
Speaker 1: was the number one in England. I don't know if
21:14
Speaker 1: it's charted here. I think it's on the Valley Girl
21:16
Speaker 1: 2 soundtrack, in case anybody's looking. Probably That's Entertainment would
21:22
Speaker 1: be an American song by the jam because 120 Minutes
21:26
Speaker 1: would play That's Entertainment. I'm guessing those two. They did
21:31
Speaker 1: play The Bitterest Pill. But those two probably in America,
21:36
Speaker 1: as far as the style council, the only hit was
21:39
Speaker 1: My Ever-Changing Moods, and that hit 29. And You're the
21:44
Speaker 1: Best Thing was like in the 60s, maybe. But the
21:47
Speaker 1: other stuff didn't chart. Their most famous song might be
21:52
Speaker 1: Shout to the Top, though, if I were guessing. And
21:54
Speaker 1: I'm not looking at Spotify plays. That might be their
21:58
Speaker 1: most recognizable outside of long hot summer or I would
22:03
Speaker 1: change moods. You do something to me solo. That's probably
22:07
Speaker 1: one of the most well-known across the board. And again,
22:12
Speaker 1: there's a difference in England, you know, going underground would
22:14
Speaker 1: be one of his biggest in England or eating rifles,
22:16
Speaker 1: not here. So that he hasn't had a top 40
22:22
Speaker 1: in England, which is not a Weller fault. I think
22:24
Speaker 1: it's just how we calculate our charts these days since
22:27
Speaker 1: maybe no probably from Wake Up the Nation, maybe? It's
22:32
Speaker 1: been a long time.
22:33
Speaker 2: I could look here.
22:35
Speaker 1: But, you know, what you said is so true. He
22:38
Speaker 1: has had a number one album of new material for
22:42
Speaker 1: five consecutive decades.
22:44
Speaker 2: Yeah.
22:44
Speaker 1: Not to, like, a Greatest Hits compilation only. And from
22:48
Speaker 1: me looking stuff up, I think maybe Gilmore, you know,
22:52
Speaker 1: is the only... And Springsteen, maybe, I'm not positive, but
22:55
Speaker 1: I know Gilmore has, whether Pink Floyd or not, And
22:59
Speaker 1: Weller almost had six decades because the couple of the
23:04
Speaker 1: jam records before sound effects were top 10. But yeah,
23:10
Speaker 1: I don't know the huge discrepancy because as you pointed
23:14
Speaker 1: out earlier, music is sort of international. And so it
23:19
Speaker 1: always surprises me how some bands just haven't caught on.
23:24
Speaker 1: When they're played in your home all the time and
23:27
Speaker 1: how they're not big, big time.
23:29
Speaker 2: Getting back to his solo catalog, 97, he put out
23:31
Speaker 2: Heavy Soul. And he deliberately made it rougher and more
23:35
Speaker 2: aggressive than Stanley Road. On Brushed, Steve White used that
23:39
Speaker 2: almost Tomorrow Never Knows style drum pattern just to cut
23:42
Speaker 2: through all the guitars and effects. How much of that
23:45
Speaker 2: record sound came from careful planning? And how much came
23:48
Speaker 2: from musicians reacting to each other in the studio?
23:51
Speaker 1: You know that, oddly enough, that title to me is
23:54
Speaker 1: a dual meaning. It is a heavier record. There's more
23:57
Speaker 1: guitar sound. The title track is, I don't mean this
24:02
Speaker 1: in a bad way, but it is less melodic than
24:05
Speaker 1: most Paul Miller songs. It's like white sky off Saturn's pattern,
24:09
Speaker 1: but it's heavier and that's okay. But the heavy soul reference,
24:13
Speaker 1: I think he himself, this was not probably his best
24:17
Speaker 1: personal time. And so I don't know when they officially divorced,
24:21
Speaker 1: but the story had it that even in Glastonbury in 94,
24:26
Speaker 1: He told Steve White that they're broken up, he and D.C. Lee.
24:30
Speaker 1: So the aftermath of that and his resurgence of huge
24:35
Speaker 1: fame in England didn't apparently go real well. Because he's
24:40
Speaker 1: not a dude who cares about fame, but it looked
24:42
Speaker 1: like for a little while he might have gotten caught
24:44
Speaker 1: up in it after Stanley Rowe. So heavy soul, I think,
24:48
Speaker 1: is a little bit of a play on words. The
24:50
Speaker 1: music is heavier, by and large. But I do think
24:53
Speaker 1: there's something about... how he was feeling at that time.
24:57
Speaker 1: There's still some pop stuff and up in Susie's room
25:00
Speaker 1: is a really catchy song with a good string arrangement,
25:03
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's a much heavier album all the way around.
25:06
Speaker 1: I think too, personally.
25:09
Speaker 2: Heliocentric from 2000. That was not an easy recording process.
25:14
Speaker 2: He called, he likened it to pulling teeth is what
25:17
Speaker 2: he said, probably because the sessions were scattered across different studios.
25:21
Speaker 2: How much did that fragmented recording process contribute? to an
25:24
Speaker 2: album that he himself has never really seemed all that
25:27
Speaker 2: satisfied with.
25:29
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think you're right.
25:31
Speaker 2: I don't know.
25:31
Speaker 1: I don't get, I think he's scarred, but I think
25:35
Speaker 1: his judgment is probably because of that. It wasn't a
25:37
Speaker 1: ton of fun to record. I mean, compare that to
25:41
Speaker 1: when they did the studio one 50 posts. Apparently that
25:44
Speaker 1: was a lot of fun for the band. This, I
25:47
Speaker 1: get the impression wasn't when you go to all those
25:49
Speaker 1: different studios. And also it was a lot to, with
25:53
Speaker 1: the arrangements, you know, Robert, well, we had, we had, what,
25:57
Speaker 1: Robert Kirby, I guess, the string arranger for Nick Drake.
26:02
Speaker 1: He's the one. And so this time Weller wanted not
26:06
Speaker 1: soul strings as much as British strings, if that makes
26:10
Speaker 1: any sense. I kind of get that. And so there
26:14
Speaker 1: was a lot to that. And with the orchestration on
26:16
Speaker 1: the many of the tracks and all the different studios,
26:19
Speaker 1: I think what it became was, And I don't think
26:24
Speaker 1: he views music as laborious. So that's probably why there is,
26:29
Speaker 1: you know, a little bit of a bad taste with that.
26:31
Speaker 1: But to me, there are four or five on there
26:35
Speaker 1: that are loveless is just a great song to close
26:38
Speaker 1: the album. And the song about his daughter is really good.
26:43
Speaker 1: Sweet pea. So he's a little harsh maybe on that one,
26:47
Speaker 1: but I think maybe it's from the experience that, as
26:51
Speaker 1: much as if he didn't like some of the tracks.
26:53
Speaker 2: And that could be what led to the next one,
26:56
Speaker 2: 2002's Illumination, where you've got a change here. He starts
27:00
Speaker 2: to move away from the sound he developed with Steve White.
27:04
Speaker 2: Simon Dine enters the picture. It's written in the stars.
27:08
Speaker 2: Mix of soul, loops, hip-hop production, psychedelia. This is the
27:13
Speaker 2: stuff I love. What did Simon Dine bring to Willow
27:16
Speaker 2: that began changing the way he thought about making records
27:18
Speaker 2: in general? Well, he is.
27:20
Speaker 1: really good about soundscapes and not, not in the, like
27:26
Speaker 1: the field music sort of little venture that Weller did
27:29
Speaker 1: a few years later, but I mean like adding instrumentation
27:32
Speaker 1: and effects. And so he did bring, he brought a
27:35
Speaker 1: different sound that again, branched out from the more guitar
27:40
Speaker 1: focused band of the early nineties. And he did add
27:43
Speaker 1: to the sound. There's a little bit more experimentation on
27:47
Speaker 1: that record. I think as is now we'll continue that more.
27:50
Speaker 1: But Dine also, I give you, to me, the best
27:54
Speaker 1: example outside of Weller, he did some stuff on the
27:58
Speaker 1: Trash Can, Sinatra's album, Pendulum, and you can hear some
28:02
Speaker 1: of the strings and different things, and it's quite like
28:07
Speaker 1: what he did with Weller's work at the time. So
28:09
Speaker 1: he brings a lot of sound, and he does a
28:12
Speaker 1: nice job of really adding, I think, the texture to it.
28:17
Speaker 1: So I think Anytime Weller thinks nowadays that he's older,
28:20
Speaker 1: somebody can bring something to it. He embraces that a
28:24
Speaker 1: little bit more. So I think like his whole career,
28:27
Speaker 1: after a little while, he gets tired or wants to
28:30
Speaker 1: try something new. And it was good timing for him
28:32
Speaker 1: to come in as a producer dying at that time.
28:37
Speaker 2: Kevin Settlemeyer is the author of Paul Weller's Song by Song.
28:40
Speaker 2: Studio 150, you mentioned that one. That's from 2004. It's
28:44
Speaker 2: his first covers album. It's made at a time when
28:46
Speaker 2: he simply wasn't writing. And then he returned almost immediately
28:50
Speaker 2: with a burst of new songs in 05, as is now.
28:54
Speaker 2: Did immersing himself in other people's songwriting actually teach Weller
28:59
Speaker 2: something new about his own? Did that inspire him?
29:02
Speaker 1: I think that album, you know, sometimes we kind of
29:04
Speaker 1: dread the cover's record. Occasionally, it feels obligatory. Or it says, hey,
29:09
Speaker 1: my favorite artist just has nothing to say. And this one, though,
29:14
Speaker 1: to me, and again, I'm... Grew up first with the
29:19
Speaker 1: Style Council, so 84, and then by 87, I had
29:22
Speaker 1: all the jam and all that. So it's a little
29:24
Speaker 1: different for me. I liked that record a lot because
29:28
Speaker 1: it felt more soulful. Some of the arrangements are really
29:33
Speaker 1: nice on there. Even the Neil Young birds, the piano
29:37
Speaker 1: on that, and he's becoming a more competent musician. pianist
29:40
Speaker 1: at this time, Weller is. And so that record to me,
29:44
Speaker 1: while it was kind of writer's block, it served a
29:49
Speaker 1: huge purpose for sort of the sound trajectory to change.
29:55
Speaker 1: And to me, it was all a good thing. I mean,
29:58
Speaker 1: the last one he just did, there was a covers record,
30:02
Speaker 1: Find El Dorado. He actually said straight up going in,
30:06
Speaker 1: like my next record is going to be, because right
30:08
Speaker 1: now on covers, I don't have a lot to write
30:10
Speaker 1: about right now. But he wanted to do a record.
30:13
Speaker 1: And so I think that was very different in how
30:16
Speaker 1: it served a purpose. I think you're right. Going into
30:19
Speaker 1: As Is Now, that record sounds fresher to me. there's
30:24
Speaker 1: different type of songs on there than I would have
30:26
Speaker 1: found on Heavy Soul. And so to me, at least,
30:30
Speaker 1: it may not be his best record, but it fits
30:32
Speaker 1: in the chronology really well as a place where his
30:35
Speaker 1: career kind of took off again.
30:38
Speaker 2: I'm curious. So you started with Style Council. How did
30:41
Speaker 2: you discover them? MTV video?
30:43
Speaker 1: Back in the day, that was a hit song. So
30:47
Speaker 1: local radio played it. And so... It was like a
30:52
Speaker 1: slice of sunshine. That first album, which was in the States,
30:58
Speaker 1: My Ever-Changing Moods, which, by the way, the British folks
31:03
Speaker 1: will hate me, but both that and Internationalist compared to
31:07
Speaker 1: My Favorite Shop, we got the better track listing in
31:09
Speaker 1: America because we got some singles that weren't on that.
31:12
Speaker 1: But they were great. That record with My Ever-Changing Moods,
31:17
Speaker 1: it was unlike anything I'd ever heard. And so this
31:22
Speaker 1: is around the time that, you know, I have an
31:24
Speaker 1: older brother. That's where I got so much love of
31:27
Speaker 1: music from.
31:28
Speaker 2: Same here.
31:29
Speaker 1: Oh, really? Oh, yeah.
31:30
Speaker 2: Same here. Two older brothers.
31:32
Speaker 1: How old? How much older is he?
31:33
Speaker 2: So, yeah, my next oldest is two years older than me.
31:36
Speaker 2: So that's how I got into the 70s and 80s stuff.
31:40
Speaker 2: And then my oldest brother is seven years older than me.
31:44
Speaker 2: So he introduced me to this stuff prior, 60s and 70s.
31:48
Speaker 1: Oh, my brother's about seven years. I bet you had
31:53
Speaker 1: similar albums in your home than my brother. So I
31:57
Speaker 1: remember he listened to it after I bought it. It
32:00
Speaker 1: was rough. This is so savant-like. It was about June 20th, 1984.
32:05
Speaker 1: It's odd. I can remember some Dates of Buying Style
32:08
Speaker 1: Council records.
32:09
Speaker 2: Wow.
32:10
Speaker 1: The cost of loving was the day of the NCAA
32:12
Speaker 1: championship in 87 because I carpooled guys home from school,
32:17
Speaker 1: but we stopped at your ecstasy in the snow so
32:19
Speaker 1: I could pick that up. So it's odd when you remember.
32:22
Speaker 1: That's awesome. My brother said, I don't think you're going
32:25
Speaker 1: to like this because I went to like a Louisville
32:28
Speaker 1: Redbirds game or something that night. And fewer words have
32:34
Speaker 1: ever been less prophetic because it was unlike anything I'd
32:38
Speaker 1: ever heard. And so it's sort of like the lexicon
32:41
Speaker 1: of love two years prior was probably one of the
32:43
Speaker 1: first records I got without like my brother having any influence.
32:48
Speaker 1: But my ever-changing moves on the radio, hit radio in
32:52
Speaker 1: Louisville is how, like literally. Our house didn't have, this
32:56
Speaker 1: sounds terrible, didn't have MTV until 1995. So I would
33:01
Speaker 1: see it at other people's houses and Friday night videos,
33:05
Speaker 1: of course, but I don't even think that was on
33:06
Speaker 1: Friday night videos. And so- Yeah, it was just hearing
33:11
Speaker 1: that one song, knowing this is unlike anything I've ever heard.
33:15
Speaker 1: And I just listened to it on a walk last
33:17
Speaker 1: night with headphones. And it is really, it's outstanding. And
33:23
Speaker 1: when you listen to each instrument, it still really holds up.
33:27
Speaker 1: And it doesn't have that, it's 80s, not at all.
33:29
Speaker 2: There's something special. Yeah, that band that you connect with
33:32
Speaker 2: or an artist you connect with, that moment is, it's
33:35
Speaker 2: so powerful. It really is cool. And it sticks with you.
33:38
Speaker 2: And then as you get older, you can hear the
33:39
Speaker 2: music a little bit differently. Hear things maybe you didn't
33:43
Speaker 2: hear before.
33:43
Speaker 1: It's not like I seek out new music maybe as
33:46
Speaker 1: much as I did in college. I want to hear
33:49
Speaker 1: new music and I want to be exposed to new bands.
33:51
Speaker 1: But I am totally comfortable also going back to the
33:55
Speaker 1: bands that I liked when I was 17.
33:57
Speaker 2: Sure.
33:57
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't have any problem with that.
34:00
Speaker 2: Absolutely. 2008's 22 Dreams. Yes. Weller deliberately stopped worrying about
34:07
Speaker 2: what his audiences wanted, and he broke up a successful
34:11
Speaker 2: working formula, brought different musicians in as needed. So why
34:16
Speaker 2: was dismantling what already worked so important to making this is,
34:19
Speaker 2: I would say, one of his most adventurous records?
34:22
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, the gift hit number one, and he
34:26
Speaker 1: broke up the jam. And so Steve White's only on
34:30
Speaker 1: one track on this record. And so if you go
34:34
Speaker 1: online and read stuff, there are many people who will say, boy, Damon, Michelle,
34:39
Speaker 1: and then Steve on guitar, and then Steve White on drums.
34:45
Speaker 1: Like they always say, that is the unit. I think
34:47
Speaker 1: he's had good units the whole time. And I've only
34:51
Speaker 1: saw the old incarnation once. And so I think they're
34:56
Speaker 1: all good. They're all talented musicians. But there was something.
35:01
Speaker 1: I mean, I get it. I think he wanted to
35:03
Speaker 1: try something different. And he was turning 50. And I
35:07
Speaker 1: guess he thought, you know, I'm going to do a
35:09
Speaker 1: present to myself. And you're right. He was less concerned.
35:13
Speaker 1: I mean, pleasantly surprised and appreciative. But he started becoming
35:18
Speaker 1: at the stage where, you know, he doesn't care. Nobody's
35:22
Speaker 1: going to tell him you got to write a hit single.
35:25
Speaker 1: And so it worked out fine. It was critically acclaimed
35:28
Speaker 1: and sold well. So it worked out.
35:31
Speaker 2: And then on 2010's Wake Up the Nation, he sometimes
35:34
Speaker 2: didn't even enter the studio with a finished song. Simon
35:37
Speaker 2: Dine gave him the loops, sounds, or backing tracks, and
35:39
Speaker 2: he would respond to them. Now that approach, that continued
35:43
Speaker 2: into 2012's Sonic Kicks. How fundamentally did that change his
35:47
Speaker 2: idea of what songwriting could be?
35:49
Speaker 1: That was pretty huge. He would come with songs, obviously,
35:55
Speaker 1: and flesh them out, maybe do a demo in the
35:57
Speaker 1: old days. and everybody, I mean, you can go back
36:00
Speaker 1: on the extras, the jam extras, or the style council,
36:03
Speaker 1: that whole collection, and you'll hear his demos himself, and
36:07
Speaker 1: then you get to hear how the band, you know,
36:09
Speaker 1: fixes them, I guess. With that, though, when he got
36:13
Speaker 1: to that period, you're right, he would come in and
36:16
Speaker 1: not necessarily have, bring songs to the studio, and so
36:21
Speaker 1: it was a sense of collaboration that he didn't, not
36:26
Speaker 1: that he was selfish in the past, but he gave
36:30
Speaker 1: up some control. And so, yeah, and that's sort of,
36:35
Speaker 1: he still feel, I feel he's probably more of that
36:38
Speaker 1: direction today than he was, say, the direction in 1985. So, yeah,
36:46
Speaker 1: one other thing, and I don't know if this coincides
36:48
Speaker 1: with that, but when he stopped drinking in 2010, I
36:53
Speaker 1: think that factored in to the creativity process and and
37:00
Speaker 1: literally the the introspective ability and and and i and
37:04
Speaker 1: i may be way off but it seems like that
37:06
Speaker 1: did coincide with his desire to have other creative inputs
37:11
Speaker 1: and respect those and kind of go with that you
37:14
Speaker 1: know i don't know but it sure seems um because
37:17
Speaker 1: his his now wife basically said you can have you
37:21
Speaker 1: know alcohol or me and boy when you read interviews
37:26
Speaker 1: of him after 2010 And you have some online, like
37:30
Speaker 1: Far Out Magazine always says, there's six people Paul Weller
37:33
Speaker 1: can't stand.
37:34
Speaker 2: Right.
37:34
Speaker 1: Well, this is a useless article because these are comments
37:37
Speaker 1: by and large, either out of context or really old.
37:41
Speaker 1: Really old, yeah. Yes. If it's 1996, that is probably
37:46
Speaker 1: not the year that you want to hang out with Paul.
37:50
Speaker 1: I would guess because that was when, you know, I'm
37:52
Speaker 1: a rock star, which is pretty typical. I mean, here's
37:55
Speaker 1: the guy who felt uncomfortable at Band-Aid. Here's the guy
37:59
Speaker 1: who walked to the recording studio with a walking stick
38:03
Speaker 1: and didn't come with a, with a, with a chauffeur limousine.
38:07
Speaker 1: And so I think it posts that and then post drinking,
38:11
Speaker 1: there was a clarity for him that it probably helped
38:16
Speaker 1: in him working with other people and taking input and
38:20
Speaker 1: being more collaborative. And that's hard to say because I
38:23
Speaker 1: think solid council was a collaborative sort of unit and
38:26
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think after 2010, that also helps explain
38:30
Speaker 1: maybe some things.
38:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, he does talk. He said he grew as a
38:34
Speaker 2: human being once he got sober, but it seems like
38:37
Speaker 2: that in turn, he grows as an artist as well.
38:40
Speaker 1: Oh, great point. I think there's a correlation, sure.
38:43
Speaker 2: After three albums with Dine, 2015's Saturn's Pattern begins Weller's
38:50
Speaker 2: production partnership with Stan Kuybert. What did he bring that
38:55
Speaker 2: allowed Weller to keep experimenting without repeating the methods that
38:58
Speaker 2: he had developed with Dine, even though they were working?
39:01
Speaker 1: That's a good question, because there was and I forget
39:04
Speaker 1: the specifics. I think it was a bit of a
39:06
Speaker 1: falling out or or maybe he started producing at Dine
39:10
Speaker 1: and the sound didn't, you know, go maybe what he
39:13
Speaker 1: was hoping. So he tried to try to stand out.
39:17
Speaker 1: And I don't know if there was animosity now or anything.
39:21
Speaker 1: But I think that's kind of Weller to a degree.
39:24
Speaker 1: I don't believe from what I know that, I think
39:28
Speaker 1: he and Steve Wright would get along just fine today.
39:31
Speaker 1: I'm guessing. I mean, it was a treat on the
39:34
Speaker 1: documentary Long Hot Summers to not know and at the
39:37
Speaker 1: end have the four of them do it's a very
39:41
Speaker 1: deep sea. It was like your childhood came back and
39:45
Speaker 1: all these years later. So I don't think there's animosity
39:48
Speaker 1: and I just think Stan brought a different bit of
39:52
Speaker 1: the production sound. Like that album, Saturn's Pattern's got some
39:57
Speaker 1: sort of moody, sort of late night atmospheric sort of
40:01
Speaker 1: sounds to it. And I don't know if that's achieved
40:04
Speaker 1: with Dine. It's not as peppy. It's a bit different.
40:11
Speaker 1: Going My Way might be the most sounding, most Dine
40:15
Speaker 1: sounding song on there. But some of the other ones,
40:18
Speaker 1: I don't know if he achieves that with Simon Dine
40:21
Speaker 1: in that case. So it could be what he's looking for.
40:24
Speaker 1: I mean, The Promise has some great songs that Bruce
40:27
Speaker 1: Springsteen released years later. He didn't feel like they fit
40:31
Speaker 1: with darkness. So maybe it was the same sort of thing.
40:34
Speaker 1: He was looking for a vibe and this other producer
40:37
Speaker 1: could give it. Now, that's a bit speculative, but it
40:40
Speaker 1: certainly has a different sound than the previous few records,
40:44
Speaker 1: for sure.
40:44
Speaker 2: 2017 is a kind revolution. This is interesting because this
40:48
Speaker 2: goes to what we were just talking about in him
40:51
Speaker 2: evolving as a person and an artist. We find him
40:54
Speaker 2: here talking about a hoped for spiritual revolution built around
40:59
Speaker 2: kindness and compassion, which is something that you wouldn't have
41:05
Speaker 2: heard from in the nineties. Right.
41:09
Speaker 1: Probably not. Yeah. Well, what's that's, nine years old now
41:14
Speaker 1: or something although i just got a kind revolution t-shirt
41:17
Speaker 1: online because um it's so applicable the theory and theme
41:24
Speaker 1: of that is like so applicable today um more than
41:30
Speaker 1: than 2017 kindness and it's a good play on words
41:34
Speaker 1: but um i think there was a point when he
41:37
Speaker 1: he realized that the quote revolution, uh, or the change rock,
41:43
Speaker 1: maybe music can't do it on its own. Like he
41:45
Speaker 1: would have thought as an 18 year old. And so
41:48
Speaker 1: I think that's partially one thing that separated the jam
41:50
Speaker 1: from some of the other bands then was it wasn't
41:53
Speaker 1: just angry. Uh, the response was pretty well calculated for
41:59
Speaker 1: a fellow who, you know, didn't go to college and
42:01
Speaker 1: was a good observer. Um, but that was when he
42:05
Speaker 1: was younger. Um, By the time you get to Counter-Revolution,
42:09
Speaker 1: there's some really interesting, the cranes are back. You know,
42:13
Speaker 1: that's another metaphorical sort of thing. Is it the birds
42:16
Speaker 1: coming back in seasonally or is it the cranes of construction?
42:21
Speaker 1: And is that construction really progress? So I think there's
42:25
Speaker 1: a lot of deeper thoughts on there, but it also
42:29
Speaker 1: has some really cool, unique sounds and one tier of,
42:35
Speaker 1: in particular, is, I think, a real bold song. And
42:40
Speaker 1: it just sounds great to me. So that record, I
42:43
Speaker 1: think that one is of that little era, really kind
42:48
Speaker 1: of the standout of those few in that period.
42:55
Speaker 2: What about the soundtrack he did to Jabo? What do
42:57
Speaker 2: you make of that? Because that was released the same year,
43:00
Speaker 2: and he's writing for a fictional character, the character struggling
43:03
Speaker 2: with alcoholism. in boxing so some personal connections there.
43:07
Speaker 1: Oh you're exactly right because his dad was an amateur
43:10
Speaker 1: boxer that's exactly right and longtime manager too and then
43:14
Speaker 1: he did that great song in trees about partially about
43:18
Speaker 1: his father and his father was in like a nursing
43:21
Speaker 1: home or whatever they called it in england so yes
43:23
Speaker 1: he had a lot of homage to in same way
43:24
Speaker 1: empty ring was a boxing reference on 22 dreams as
43:29
Speaker 1: far as that record um i don't know um The
43:35
Speaker 1: reference to boxing jawbone is kind of interesting because it
43:39
Speaker 1: has a little bit of that field sound, not quite
43:42
Speaker 1: what he would do for that experimental record. But there's
43:44
Speaker 1: only two songs, I think, with lyrics. And both of
43:48
Speaker 1: those are quite poignant. The ballad Jimmy McCabe is really wonderful.
43:54
Speaker 1: It's just acoustic. And same way with the bottle. So
43:58
Speaker 1: you got to believe when he's writing the bottle that
44:02
Speaker 1: there is some personal experience involved. that he's able to
44:05
Speaker 1: bring that goes beyond whatever the script said about that character.
44:10
Speaker 1: And so those two songs, there's some real interesting music
44:14
Speaker 1: on there, but those are the two with lyrics, and
44:19
Speaker 1: they are very folksy or whatever you want to call it,
44:22
Speaker 1: but they're pretty poignant knowing his history and then knowing
44:26
Speaker 1: the character, the boxer.
44:28
Speaker 2: Following year, 2018's True Meanings. I mean, this guy was working.
44:32
Speaker 2: In the 2000s, in the 2010s, right up until now.
44:36
Speaker 2: It's amazing.
44:37
Speaker 1: I don't know if a lot of people have in
44:39
Speaker 1: their 60s, they have this great period of almost artistic resurgence.
44:44
Speaker 2: But kind of did.
44:46
Speaker 1: Right.
44:46
Speaker 2: He suddenly turns away from electronics. He goes more towards
44:49
Speaker 2: acoustic music and orchestration with Hannah Peele becoming a crucial collaborator.
44:55
Speaker 2: What made stripping everything back feel like a step forward
44:58
Speaker 2: for him rather than a retreat into the past?
45:01
Speaker 1: He'll say that he had written the song Gravity a
45:05
Speaker 1: few years before and it didn't have a home because
45:07
Speaker 1: it didn't sound like the other records. And so in
45:10
Speaker 1: a way, he kind of wanted to create an album
45:13
Speaker 1: around that. And so a lot of those numbers, you know,
45:16
Speaker 1: are acoustically based. And that one has a really simple,
45:20
Speaker 1: nice string arrangement. And, you know, it's almost like he's
45:25
Speaker 1: doing heliocentric music. the way he would have wanted to
45:29
Speaker 1: do it in the first place. He's at Black Barn,
45:32
Speaker 1: although sometimes the strings are recorded at Abbey Road, depending
45:35
Speaker 1: on the record. Um, and it just, it works. It's
45:39
Speaker 1: back to basics, but it's also, he's never done an
45:42
Speaker 1: all orchestrated record. So it is the, the quintessential mod
45:46
Speaker 1: move to keep moving forward. And so much of that
45:51
Speaker 1: record works so well. Um, I mean, moving on is
45:58
Speaker 1: and he had a couple of songs where he wrote
46:00
Speaker 1: with other people. But that's right. To me, the top
46:04
Speaker 1: of the solo can and that and aspects and may
46:07
Speaker 1: love travel with you like a hardcore jam fan who's
46:10
Speaker 1: never forgiven him. They may not like that, but I
46:14
Speaker 1: love that closure.
46:15
Speaker 2: It's it's it's it's.
46:16
Speaker 1: Sort of like Ringo singing Good Night on the White Album.
46:20
Speaker 1: I don't know. It works for me. But that record
46:23
Speaker 1: got him back to another direction, a more acoustic bass.
46:27
Speaker 1: But the strings were a new thing. And then he'd
46:30
Speaker 1: revisit them on the orchestrated songbook. But he's always used strings.
46:34
Speaker 1: You know, you go back to even the Bitterest Pill,
46:36
Speaker 1: even one jam song, but the Style Council was replete
46:40
Speaker 1: with them. And they had a really good string arranger.
46:42
Speaker 1: So he's never been far from it, but he had
46:44
Speaker 1: never delved into it like he did, well, half of
46:47
Speaker 1: Confessions of a Pop Group. But that record, True Meanings, Yeah,
46:51
Speaker 1: it was justifiably a big hit in England because it
46:55
Speaker 1: was adventurous, but at the core of the songs were
46:58
Speaker 1: really good.
46:59
Speaker 2: Two years later is On Sunset, 2020. And now he's
47:03
Speaker 2: singing about, writing about aging, memory, his past, but he
47:09
Speaker 2: still sounded contemporary and he's still sounding adventurous, right? I mean,
47:13
Speaker 2: how is he able to look backward like this without
47:16
Speaker 2: allowing nostalgia to take over the music? I mean, is
47:18
Speaker 2: that what, is that your opinion? I mean, it seems
47:20
Speaker 2: like that.
47:21
Speaker 1: Is that, Oh no, you're you're again, I sometimes chuckle
47:24
Speaker 1: because your questions are incredibly astute. And for the home viewer,
47:28
Speaker 1: I'm not getting the extra, you know, cash incentive to
47:31
Speaker 1: say that you're a great question.
47:32
Speaker 2: And you did not feed me these questions.
47:34
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness.
47:36
Speaker 2: No. I, yeah, these, and honestly, I, I, I'm a
47:42
Speaker 2: new fan of his, you know, I mean, I just,
47:44
Speaker 2: I can't say, I mean, I knew of his work and,
47:48
Speaker 2: Being a music fan, I would see his name in
47:50
Speaker 2: the pictures and I'd say, yeah, recognize him. But this
47:53
Speaker 2: allowed me to really invest in his music.
47:55
Speaker 1: Well, that's wonderful because to me, it's been part of
47:59
Speaker 1: the soundtrack to my life since I was 14 years old.
48:02
Speaker 1: So I'm appreciative. It's sort of like when Kate Bush
48:06
Speaker 1: got popular because of Stranger Things. I didn't begrudge a kid.
48:10
Speaker 1: I listened to her in high school, but I'm glad
48:12
Speaker 1: now they know who she is.
48:14
Speaker 2: You know where I first heard of her was on
48:15
Speaker 2: Peter Gabriel's Soul. Oh, well, don't don't give up.
48:18
Speaker 1: Don't give up. Absolutely.
48:20
Speaker 2: Oh, who is this?
48:21
Speaker 1: Oh, that was the year I think my brother got
48:23
Speaker 1: the whole story. And then so and then Hounds of Love.
48:28
Speaker 1: So 85, 86 or whatever. And yes, then that put
48:31
Speaker 1: me in for sure.
48:33
Speaker 2: But getting back to the question. So, yeah, how is
48:34
Speaker 2: he able to do that? I mean, at that age,
48:36
Speaker 2: it's hard for artists to to not sound like they're
48:40
Speaker 2: dipping too much into nostalgia.
48:41
Speaker 1: And he would hate that. he definitely would not want
48:46
Speaker 1: to be a nostalgia act. I mean, he's been, what
48:50
Speaker 1: was the quote from many, you know, the only way
48:52
Speaker 1: I would reform the jam, obviously prior to poor Rick
48:56
Speaker 1: Buckler's passing, was if my family's penniless and living on
49:00
Speaker 1: the streets, essentially. And so he would not be a fan.
49:04
Speaker 1: He would look at that as looking back. And actually
49:08
Speaker 1: early on in the solo career, he wasn't a big
49:10
Speaker 1: fan of doing style council and jam songs. This year's
49:15
Speaker 1: set list in England, I would love to have had
49:18
Speaker 1: that set list. it is even more jam and style
49:21
Speaker 1: council uh but he did have the song foundation's horn
49:24
Speaker 1: section so that did allow some of that to happen
49:27
Speaker 1: but i don't know i he he wants to keep
49:30
Speaker 1: moving and um these records have been a creative spurt
49:36
Speaker 1: uh over the last few years so On Sunset, though,
49:40
Speaker 1: he specifically references going back to California because the jam
49:46
Speaker 1: played there like one of his early memories of coming
49:51
Speaker 1: to America. And so even that video, he's driving around L.A.
49:57
Speaker 1: But his son, I think, lives in L.A., his oldest son.
50:00
Speaker 1: So it's not like he begrudges America at all. It's
50:05
Speaker 1: just that I think now he can look back And
50:09
Speaker 1: realize that when you get older, you can be introspective
50:13
Speaker 1: and reflective. That doesn't mean that you're backwards thinking. I
50:17
Speaker 1: think as he's got older, he's been able to differentiate that. Yeah.
50:20
Speaker 2: And the sobriety probably plays a role in that as well.
50:24
Speaker 2: It's opening up.
50:25
Speaker 1: I bet so.
50:26
Speaker 2: Yeah. He was closed off for quite a bit with
50:29
Speaker 2: the alcoholism. Black Barn, is that where most of the
50:33
Speaker 2: stuff he recorded at? Was it Black Barn? Is that
50:35
Speaker 2: his go-to?
50:36
Speaker 1: Yeah. I should know. I'm sure it's in the book.
50:39
Speaker 1: What album he started at Black, but he's owned Black
50:42
Speaker 1: Barn for quite a long time. And other bands do
50:45
Speaker 1: play and record there. But yeah, I mean, that's part
50:49
Speaker 1: of maybe part of his creative resurgence is that he's
50:53
Speaker 1: got a place. You know, he doesn't have to. Well,
50:56
Speaker 1: he hasn't had to rent one out in a long time,
50:58
Speaker 1: but I'm saying he doesn't. It's very convenient and it's
51:02
Speaker 1: very in the pastoral. So I think that also has
51:05
Speaker 1: a little bit of an effect.
51:07
Speaker 2: So having said that, then 2021's Fat Pop Volume 1
51:11
Speaker 2: was made under the strange conditions of lockdown, which a
51:14
Speaker 2: lot of artists went through this, but he sometimes recorded alone,
51:17
Speaker 2: sent the tracks to the musicians to add their parts remotely.
51:20
Speaker 2: So do those limitations lead to creative choices that maybe
51:26
Speaker 2: wouldn't have happened if everybody had simply been together at
51:29
Speaker 2: Black Barn? And are you happy with that? Do you
51:32
Speaker 2: hear the difference?
51:34
Speaker 1: And again, and again, this is just, you know, a
51:36
Speaker 1: fan's opinion. Nothing. I really like that record. And I'm
51:40
Speaker 1: not because it's it's it's a little sunshiny in the
51:44
Speaker 1: South Council way. There's a lot of the rhythm guitar
51:48
Speaker 1: that reminds me of those days in particular. And it's
51:51
Speaker 1: got some catchy beats. They're all short songs. It feels
51:55
Speaker 1: like they could all be singles almost.
51:57
Speaker 2: So recording remotely didn't affect it negatively.
52:00
Speaker 1: See, if anything, he was putting out these home videos,
52:04
Speaker 1: just acoustic guitar, like sitting on the steps. And a
52:07
Speaker 1: lot of people were doing, Mary Chapin Carpenter, I remember,
52:09
Speaker 1: you would see these videos. And some of those songs
52:12
Speaker 1: were the new songs he was writing that became on
52:14
Speaker 1: Fat Pop. So I guess as an artist, If you
52:19
Speaker 1: have time on your hands, he would be so bored.
52:24
Speaker 1: I would think somebody like him. He's always thinking or
52:27
Speaker 1: wanting to work or whatever. So I think it probably
52:30
Speaker 1: actually was a good thing for him. And that record,
52:34
Speaker 1: that record sounds very fresh to me. And so, yeah,
52:39
Speaker 1: the other musicians kind of knew what parts to play.
52:42
Speaker 1: And it sounds really good knowing, like you said, some
52:45
Speaker 1: of that is pieced together. And so maybe that is
52:48
Speaker 1: a record you literally technologically couldn't do years before, but
52:52
Speaker 1: it does sound good and fresh and something good came
52:56
Speaker 1: out of lock up, lock, lock down or lock up.
52:59
Speaker 2: Locked up, locked out.
53:03
Speaker 1: They're all song titles probably like, right. Anyway, sorry.
53:07
Speaker 2: What, what's remarkable about him. He's known for being very guarded,
53:11
Speaker 2: selfish about songwriting, but then here we go again with,
53:14
Speaker 2: pulling out another surprise, nine of the 12 songs on
53:17
Speaker 2: 2024-66 are co-writes. This is unusual for him. What changed
53:22
Speaker 2: in Weller that made giving up some creative control so
53:27
Speaker 2: appealing to him later in life?
53:29
Speaker 1: You know, I think part of that was at that time,
53:33
Speaker 1: which continued on to the next year with the cover circuit,
53:37
Speaker 1: he had said something to the effect of, right now
53:39
Speaker 1: I don't have a lot to say. I've kind of
53:41
Speaker 1: said a lot. in these 40 years. So I, I
53:43
Speaker 1: are 50, what, almost 50. I don't have a lot
53:46
Speaker 1: to say. So if I feel like these words mean something,
53:51
Speaker 1: then I'm going to approach them as the songwriter. Now
53:55
Speaker 1: he's still, most of these writing the music and not all,
53:58
Speaker 1: but most of them writing the melodies. So, you know,
54:02
Speaker 1: like the one song Suggs, he thought Suggs wrote it
54:04
Speaker 1: and it was Suggs' friend who had written this poem.
54:08
Speaker 1: And so that is what's really interesting. And that is
54:12
Speaker 1: Weller embraces if he thinks something's good, he will work with.
54:17
Speaker 1: I mean, he's worked with tons of people just in
54:20
Speaker 1: the past five, six years and a variety of artists.
54:25
Speaker 1: And so he says that why he would get defensive
54:29
Speaker 1: back in the day and maybe rip on an artist.
54:32
Speaker 1: He has said that was his own insecurity, that maybe
54:36
Speaker 1: he wasn't as good of a player, a guitarist, a musician,
54:39
Speaker 1: a singer. And I think over the years, he's probably
54:44
Speaker 1: a better craft at his art and as a vocalist.
54:49
Speaker 1: So I think he kind of likes the singing part.
54:52
Speaker 1: It's almost like Elvis Costello. I wouldn't have thought when
54:56
Speaker 1: I heard the Armed Forces record that he would serenade
55:00
Speaker 1: us with Burt Bacharach melody. So there's an evolution again
55:04
Speaker 1: there as an artist that continues to, I think, make
55:07
Speaker 1: him relevant. not like a Bowie or Neil Young.
55:10
Speaker 2: The Boneless Podcasting Network. It is what you want it
55:15
Speaker 2: to be. Listen with confidence. Find El Dorado from 2025.
55:39
Speaker 2: That's the second covers album that you talked about. This
55:42
Speaker 2: is 20 years after Studio 150. He let Steve Craddock
55:45
Speaker 2: largely make the record while he concentrates on singing. He's
55:49
Speaker 2: willing to step back and become primarily an interpreter. What
55:52
Speaker 2: does that say about his confidence?
55:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point. He has a lot of
55:56
Speaker 1: respect for Steve Craddock, for sure. And really, that album
55:59
Speaker 1: is more Steve Craddock's than Weller's in a lot of sense,
56:03
Speaker 1: because he played so many instruments and produced it. And
56:07
Speaker 1: so I think for Weller, it was probably a fun
56:10
Speaker 1: thing because you're 100% right. He's approaching something in a
56:14
Speaker 1: way he really hadn't, and that was an interpreter. And
56:17
Speaker 1: so these songs, unlike some of the Studio 150, he
56:20
Speaker 1: really didn't even know. Or like Richard Hawley would say, hey,
56:24
Speaker 1: this is a really good song. And he didn't know it.
56:27
Speaker 1: And then he would, oh, yeah, I guess I could
56:29
Speaker 1: do something with that. So you're right. He only, I think,
56:32
Speaker 1: plays on two songs on that record. And so, yeah,
56:36
Speaker 1: I think you have to have some confidence and just
56:39
Speaker 1: comfort in who you are. And, and I would say
56:42
Speaker 1: at this point, he is more so that, and like,
56:47
Speaker 1: if you meet him now, it's just a pleasant fellow
56:50
Speaker 1: who's incredibly appreciative. And I think that that shows the maturity.
56:55
Speaker 1: And obviously when you're 68, you're a lot different than
56:58
Speaker 1: when you were that 18 year old kid on the
57:01
Speaker 1: first record. So, like people he's evolved musically and then
57:05
Speaker 1: just as a person i would say.
57:07
Speaker 2: What are the standout covers on that album.
57:10
Speaker 1: You know for there's one card where there's smoke there's
57:13
Speaker 1: fire it's super simple but like so many of the
57:16
Speaker 1: covers on there they are by artists i had never
57:19
Speaker 1: heard of before so in that case in a book
57:22
Speaker 1: like that i'm kind of given the background on the
57:25
Speaker 1: original song so like rural haggard that's a thing there
57:29
Speaker 1: are people there still could be jam fans right now
57:32
Speaker 1: who are still living and like perpetually turning over as
57:36
Speaker 1: if it were their grave to think that the jam
57:38
Speaker 1: man covered a country star. And so that was something
57:42
Speaker 1: Weller didn't even know what it meant because white line
57:46
Speaker 1: fever has certainly connotations of drugs, but it was the highway.
57:50
Speaker 1: And so when he learned that, I think he embraced
57:52
Speaker 1: the song a little more because as a traveling musician,
57:55
Speaker 1: you see the white lines of the highway. So some
57:59
Speaker 1: of those songs he really didn't know very well at all.
58:02
Speaker 1: And so To me, one of the best songs on there,
58:05
Speaker 1: oddly enough, is a song that his bassist, Jake Fletcher,
58:09
Speaker 1: wrote for his band. Very little-known song. P.P. Arnold recorded it,
58:15
Speaker 1: who famously sang with the Rolling Stones and a whole
58:18
Speaker 1: bunch of other acts. Steve Craddock produced her album. There's
58:22
Speaker 1: an odd Kevin Bacon thing to Weller. There's so many bands,
58:26
Speaker 1: whether it's Noel Gallagher, even. There's so many odd interwebbings
58:30
Speaker 1: of that. but that song adultery street, no, no reference
58:34
Speaker 1: to Roger. That is a really nice melody. And I
58:38
Speaker 1: think Weller handles that one particularly well. Yeah.
58:41
Speaker 2: These are obscure song get written by Jim Fletcher.
58:44
Speaker 1: Yeah. There that's his basis. And I didn't know his
58:47
Speaker 1: basis was on a band before and that's off their record.
58:51
Speaker 1: It's a really nice song. So no, there's not a
58:54
Speaker 1: lot of famous songs.
58:55
Speaker 2: Well, the only, well, that's the only one that's I
58:58
Speaker 2: started a joke. by the Bee Gees, which isn't even,
59:02
Speaker 2: you know, maybe not everybody even knows that song.
59:05
Speaker 1: Although I would be shocked if he did, like, staying alive. Right.
59:09
Speaker 2: I was about to say.
59:11
Speaker 1: Not that he hasn't done some disco sound. You beat
59:13
Speaker 1: me to it.
59:14
Speaker 2: Right. You beat me to it. So let's finish up
59:17
Speaker 2: with this. You end by describing Weller as an experimental traditionalist,
59:21
Speaker 2: somebody deeply rooted in soul, R & B, mod culture,
59:24
Speaker 2: and classic songwriting who was always searching for the next thing.
59:28
Speaker 2: So after you go through his entire career song by song,
59:31
Speaker 2: is that contradiction ultimately the best explanation for why his
59:34
Speaker 2: solo work has remained so vital for more than three decades?
59:38
Speaker 1: Somebody, I may be as well, but the reference is
59:41
Speaker 1: it's not, if you're, if you're good, it's not copying.
59:46
Speaker 1: It's like nicking. Meaning that, yeah, start sounds a bit like,
59:52
Speaker 1: like a tax man. But, I learned a lot about that,
59:58
Speaker 1: that there are so many songs I wasn't aware of.
1:00:00
Speaker 1: Then when some, you read, it sounds a little bit
1:00:01
Speaker 1: like this and you play and you think that is
1:00:04
Speaker 1: probably where he got inspired by that. Like, like a
1:00:06
Speaker 1: Steve Winwood song or a small faces song. But, but
1:00:09
Speaker 1: one thing I think that I learned from that is
1:00:12
Speaker 1: that for most of us, it was new. So if
1:00:15
Speaker 1: you told me he he's able to take his influences and, and,
1:00:19
Speaker 1: and to me and make something new with it. And
1:00:22
Speaker 1: so even though all his records, if you'd line them up,
1:00:26
Speaker 1: they're so different in style. And there's not, but yet
1:00:31
Speaker 1: they're all Paul Weller records. And I think that combination,
1:00:36
Speaker 1: you know it's him, but on the same time, you
1:00:38
Speaker 1: don't know what you're going to get. And so I
1:00:42
Speaker 1: think that kind of keeps it interesting. And for him,
1:00:45
Speaker 1: he would be bored, I think, of doing the same
1:00:50
Speaker 1: sort of record. And I think that's one reason I
1:00:54
Speaker 1: think heliocentric was really important. Because another heavy soul I
1:00:58
Speaker 1: don't think would have done well for his trajectory because
1:01:02
Speaker 1: they would have been too safe and too similar. And
1:01:05
Speaker 1: a guy who doesn't like to be that way, that
1:01:09
Speaker 1: wouldn't have worked. So, yeah, I think that's part of it.
1:01:12
Speaker 1: It's not that he's reinventing himself. It's just that he's
1:01:16
Speaker 1: doing different things and he can do those different things competently.
1:01:21
Speaker 1: But it always has the passion to it.
1:01:24
Speaker 2: What is the next thing? Now I'm curious. What do
1:01:27
Speaker 2: you think he's going to do next?
1:01:28
Speaker 1: I know that he's been in Black Barn and recording.
1:01:32
Speaker 1: I don't know if that means he's recording his stuff
1:01:35
Speaker 1: with other people. But he was on, early this year,
1:01:39
Speaker 1: I guess, the Frank Pop Ensemble. Never heard of them.
1:01:44
Speaker 1: A German outfit. And he co-wrote and plays guitar and
1:01:47
Speaker 1: sings the lead on a song. And it's... I really
1:01:52
Speaker 1: like it. But it's so... Weller-ish, but yet that band
1:01:56
Speaker 1: has their sound. It's just he's always wanting to do something,
1:02:00
Speaker 1: the next thing. And so as long as he still
1:02:04
Speaker 1: has that, I think he'll put out music that is entertaining, adventurous.
1:02:10
Speaker 1: And sometimes, you know, you got to really think through it.
1:02:14
Speaker 1: And I hope young people don't give up on that
1:02:17
Speaker 1: idea of an album. Because Spotify, we can go to
1:02:20
Speaker 1: the next song. And he wanted 22 Dreams to be
1:02:23
Speaker 1: a unit, an album, because he probably grew up with Sgt.
1:02:26
Speaker 1: Pepper and records that were a song cycle. So yeah,
1:02:30
Speaker 1: he's creative. And I think that you probably won't get
1:02:33
Speaker 1: the same album twice from him any longer, and you
1:02:37
Speaker 1: very seldom did. And I think that's kind of one
1:02:40
Speaker 1: reason he's endured so long is because he is, as
1:02:43
Speaker 1: the song said, the changing man. And he has my
1:02:46
Speaker 1: ever-changing mood. So I think some of these are emblematic
1:02:50
Speaker 1: of his style.
1:02:54
Speaker 2: Paul Weller's Song by Song out now. Find it wherever
1:02:56
Speaker 2: books are sold.
1:02:58
Speaker 1: I wish. I don't know if it's in England. It
1:03:00
Speaker 1: might be in a bookstore. If you go to a
1:03:03
Speaker 1: Barnes & Noble in Hartford, say, and it's there, I
1:03:06
Speaker 1: would be shocked beyond belief. But it is certainly available
1:03:09
Speaker 1: online at Barnes & Noble and Amazon and all of that.
1:03:12
Speaker 2: It's a great series of books, Song by Song.
1:03:15
Speaker 1: It really is. And they were so nice. And the people...
1:03:18
Speaker 1: at Fon Hill I kind of said but I would
1:03:21
Speaker 1: want to do it kind of the way I would
1:03:24
Speaker 1: want to do it and and so they didn't have
1:03:27
Speaker 1: any apprehension because there's a lot of goofy comments in
1:03:31
Speaker 1: there and things that maybe made me laugh that no
1:03:33
Speaker 1: one else will but they were really nice about that
1:03:38
Speaker 1: because as you said earlier there's some songs geez I
1:03:41
Speaker 1: don't know what to say about them because there's just
1:03:43
Speaker 1: not as much information and so you try to make
1:03:46
Speaker 1: the best of it but um It's easy to write
1:03:49
Speaker 1: about something that you really like and care about that
1:03:51
Speaker 1: has meant something to you. So, you know, it's a
1:03:56
Speaker 1: labor of love in that sense because there's tons of sources.
1:03:59
Speaker 1: But I'm glad it made me go back and put
1:04:04
Speaker 1: internationalists on vinyl on the turntable. And I hadn't done
1:04:08
Speaker 1: that in 30 years because I only had the CD
1:04:10
Speaker 1: or whatever. So it was really nice to revisit some
1:04:14
Speaker 1: with more, not scrutiny, But to really listen to some
1:04:18
Speaker 1: of them and realize why did this kid in Louisville, Kentucky,
1:04:22
Speaker 1: who knew nothing about Margaret Thatcher, somehow feel connected to it.
1:04:27
Speaker 1: And it's been that way throughout the whole solo career
1:04:29
Speaker 1: as well.
1:04:30
Speaker 2: Are you online, Kevin? Can people reach out to you online?
1:04:33
Speaker 1: Sure. I mean, I have the cleverly titled Kevin Settlemeyer
1:04:37
Speaker 1: dot com. And I do put like a blog on there,
1:04:41
Speaker 1: which I'm sure no one really has read yet. And
1:04:44
Speaker 1: I'll put entries. But the last one was my, like,
1:04:46
Speaker 1: if I had to do a mixtape for the summer
1:04:48
Speaker 1: of 26, like I did as a kid on a
1:04:50
Speaker 1: TDK 90 minute cassette, what would it be now? And
1:04:54
Speaker 1: so I just do various or put a short story
1:04:57
Speaker 1: on there or something like that. But you can also
1:04:59
Speaker 1: get the books. There's links on there to the, to
1:05:02
Speaker 1: that and the other couple of books, um, that takes
1:05:05
Speaker 1: you right to Amazon.
1:05:06
Speaker 2: So perfect. All right. So whoever's listening, go down in
1:05:09
Speaker 2: the comments or in the show description, look for the link.
1:05:12
Speaker 2: If you're listening, click on the show notes and you'll
1:05:15
Speaker 2: see the link there. I'll put it in there for
1:05:16
Speaker 2: people to connect with you. Kevin Settlemeyer. Thank you. This
1:05:20
Speaker 2: is great.
1:05:21
Speaker 1: Well, Eric, I appreciate your wonderful host, super knowledgeable and
1:05:26
Speaker 1: so nice. And you have such a good variety on
1:05:28
Speaker 1: the show. Like literally it's, um, I'm really glad I'm
1:05:31
Speaker 1: aware now because it's a great channel to watch. So
1:05:34
Speaker 1: thank you for having me. That's it. It's in the books.