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Sam and Ceschi of Codefendants · Caught on the Mike...

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Disclaimer, the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: Listener discretion is advised.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: On this episode of the podcast, we're stepping into the crime wave.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: With the code defendants, damage that needs along with the help of no effective satellite, have built something that's not just fun and hip-hop together with Zero Apollo.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: And the newest single rival featuring the DOC proves it.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: Look at how that collaboration came together for a second time.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: What's behind the upcoming single Lonely Lives starring Jacob Noel of Sublime and what fans can expect from their new album, Libert, dropping on April 3rd?
1:02
SPEAKER_00: This is raw, unfiltered, and exactly how it's supposed to be.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, this is Caught on the Mike.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Caught on the Mike.
1:20
SPEAKER_00: I've got two certified musical felons joining me today.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: The co-defendants, I got Sam and Chesky.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: We're talking about their explosive new single, Rivals, featuring Hip Hop Legend and your favorite rappers, favorite rapper, the legend, the DOC.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: What fans can expect from their upcoming album, Lifers, dropping April 3rd, and the next single, Lonely Life, starring Jacob Noel in the video.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: Punk and hip hop and no rules.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: I absolutely love it.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: Sam Chesky, thank you for joining me on the show today.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having us.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: How are you doing, man?
1:56
SPEAKER_00: Man, I'm I'm great.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: Like I said, I'm jealous of your weather.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: I'm in Lincoln, Nebraska, and it fucking sucks outside.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's pretty nice out here.
2:03
SPEAKER_02: Kind of a chilly, kind of a chilly day here today.
2:06
SPEAKER_02: It's like low, low 70s, I believe.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: That's a good day here, man.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: That's a good day.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: Let's get right into it.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: Rivals is your second collaboration with the DOC.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: What made you guys want to run it back after Fast Ones?
2:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh man, uh the DOC, the way we look at it, our relationship with him is he's always gonna be a co-defendant.
2:28
SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
2:29
SPEAKER_01: Like in our hearts, he's he's a part, he's like, he's a part of the band.
2:35
SPEAKER_01: Whenever he wants to be, wants to do something with us, he's always beyond welcome and invited.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: And um when we started this second album, Fat Mike came up with the music.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: He called it Slow Punk, and it was it was inspired by early 1980s, like sludge, sludgier punk from from the early 80s LA.
2:57
SPEAKER_01: And um we immediately thought DOC would be sick on it.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: We wanted to hear his voice on it.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: Punk rock and hip hop has always coexisted, whether people realize it or not.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, you think back like Blondie having Fab Five Freddie in the heart of glass video and the clashes music, and it's like it's amazing.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: So, how did the initial conversation about like punk gangs versus Compton gangs turn into the concept for this track?
3:26
SPEAKER_02: I think it was just you know the obvious correlation with like some of the some of the like craziness that DOC came up around when he moved out to um the LA area with all that stuff, and just us growing up in the Bay Area in San Francisco, Chesky over in the Berkeley area, Oakland area, and then him going through the I don't know.
3:48
SPEAKER_02: It just organically just came together.
3:50
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's always been we've always known somebody that's in some kind of weird gang throughout our whole lives, but that's just been being a teenager in the 90s, I guess.
4:00
unknown: Right.
4:00
unknown: You know?
4:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think uh DLC's stories about the early death row days triggered a lot, you know, like it it kind of it kind of got us thinking about a lot of that.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: And it was it was actually a combo between DLC and Fat Mike because Fat Mike, the way he talks about the early he's in Los Angeles and the and the punk gangs, that was something that uh the chaos of that whole time.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: I mean, fat mike's been at shows and seen people stabbed in front of them and killed in front of you know that's in the early 80s it was chaotic.
4:31
SPEAKER_01: So he I think it was sort of his idea to begin with to bring that up while we were also kind of talking to DOC about the early days of Death Row and the crazy shit he had seen, you know.
4:42
SPEAKER_00: You know, that's a that's a good call out because there are very similar vantage points from the early days of punk and the early days of like, you know, West Coast hip hop, you know, as people call it gangster rap.
4:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man, I I hadn't even thought about the early days of Death Row.
5:01
SPEAKER_00: I I'm a nerd about that shit, by the way.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: It's right, Sam.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you were there when DOC was recording that story about Death Row that I don't think it's come out or anything, but Yeah.
5:14
SPEAKER_02: Um I know, I can't talk about I'm not allowed to talk about that shit.
5:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: He was uh when I met when I met him, he was at Fat Mike's house on location because he was trying to they were doing the documentary and they were filming all these interviews, and he was just telling this story about um an acquaintance of his was a guy that owned the the rights to death road, the actual name, and they wanted to sign it over.
5:41
SPEAKER_02: And Suge Knight asked the guy and the guy said no, and they were in an office.
5:45
SPEAKER_02: And then these other guys came in, they started beating this dude down to death, and he was like grabbing onto like DOC's leg, like looking up at him, being like, Yo, Doc, help me.
5:56
SPEAKER_02: And he was like, you know, he he said it great when he said like when he came from Texas, he was just a musician, he was just like a young kid, you know.
6:04
SPEAKER_02: He could just write, he was just writing for gangster rappers and stuff like that.
6:08
SPEAKER_02: Uh and then he had to kind of like put on the face, well, this guy was getting beat down, you know, even though he was scared to death.
6:15
SPEAKER_02: But you know, that was the type of people he was around where like there were real consequences and you could really get fucked up.
6:22
SPEAKER_02: I mean look at vanilla eyes.
6:24
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, I was gonna call that out too.
6:27
SPEAKER_02: It's like it's like humorous to think about, but like if you were old Rob Van Winkle fucking hung outside of a hotel room like Michael Jackson's baby, dude, it'd it'd be a different story.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: For sure, for sure.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: So what does working with somebody like the DOC bring creatively that challenges you guys or elevates you guys?
6:48
SPEAKER_02: He's got a strip club.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: Was he the owner of that strip club?
6:50
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
6:51
SPEAKER_02: He seemed like the owner.
6:52
SPEAKER_02: If not, he was definitely the mayor.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: He definitely made the call so you weren't completely fucking arrested that night.
6:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, or or beaten up.
7:01
unknown: Yeah.
7:01
SPEAKER_02: I did almost get away.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: When DOC snaps his finger at that strip club, everyone listens.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: Fucking height.
7:08
SPEAKER_02: But maybe for getting any glass objects near concrete.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: Or or fucking golf carts on the premises.
7:18
SPEAKER_03: Hey.
7:21
SPEAKER_03: You know?
7:22
SPEAKER_02: So what's the story behind this, guys?
7:25
SPEAKER_02: It's a just uh just you know the age-old tale of an Irish man and his whiskey.
7:32
SPEAKER_03: At a strip club.
7:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
7:36
SPEAKER_02: Exotic games.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: We can actually answer that question, the original question though.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: What's that?
7:44
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, yeah, that yeah.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: What did C bring to you guys that like challenges you or elevates you?
7:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean he's fucking for one, he's one of the he's one of the great, if not the greatest one hip hop fucking writers of all time.
7:58
SPEAKER_02: You know, he's a his lyrics, he's a he's like the lyricist, lyricist, like you said.
8:02
SPEAKER_02: He's like the every rapper's favorite rapper.
8:05
SPEAKER_02: So just to even be in a room with a guy is fucking humbling, let alone be able to collab not once but twice on on you know on some shit.
8:15
SPEAKER_02: And it's been it's been awesome to see him um fucking just like work with Fat Mike and you know work through some shit, even though he wasn't 100% confident with his voice, it's like through punk rock and that hip-hop, you know, melding right there.
8:33
SPEAKER_02: You got to be in a zone where punk rockers are like, nah, fuck that, that sounds good in our world.
8:38
SPEAKER_02: You know, you don't have to have this smooth voice.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I felt kind of I think it's felt like some sort of liberation for him to just be able to use his natural voice, and we love it.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: We love how it sounds on that trip.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: Hell yeah, and it sounds great on that track for sure.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: So you know, you know, we kind of you kind of mentioned growing up as teenagers in the 90s, and uh we talked about the uh hip-hop and punk kind of crossing paths and sharing countercultural roots.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: We kind of evolved to today, and we live in this age of streaming where people don't look as genre boundary lines quite like they used to.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: How has that affected your guys' experience, like blending the styles of music that you guys do?
9:25
SPEAKER_00: Did it come across naturally, or is that something you guys had to work towards?
9:29
SPEAKER_00: I think it's pretty natural.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: We grew up listening to all of this music, so when we started making our own stuff as kids, even we were already blending all these sounds.
9:39
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've heard stuff from Sam on old cassettes that Sam did where he's clearly doing punk rock songs, but with samples and uh with drum machines and stuff, and I did the same thing.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: We we both were influenced by all of it.
9:53
SPEAKER_01: This is just our a natural progression for us.
9:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't think we ever uh we've never once been in the studio and said, okay, we have this song, now we have to we have to blend it with another genre.
10:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
10:08
SPEAKER_02: We just we f we make whatever we make whatever we make, and you know, it takes a minute to get there sometimes, sometimes it doesn't.
10:16
SPEAKER_02: Me and Chesky live together, he has to deal with me.
10:19
SPEAKER_02: I just sit here and just like try to make melodies all day, any chance I get.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: Whether it's gonna be a drum and bass song like we're fucking with this morning, or you know, or Chesky playing this straight Spanish guitar or like a cumbia song, or you know.
10:35
SPEAKER_02: I think life it's really gonna um people that are into the codependent sound and you know the way we organically go through, like go to different spaces musically, I think they're really gonna like this new album.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: Dude, I love hearing that.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: So that said, do you feel that lifers and the single Rivals is partly like a middle finger to genre purists saying, fuck it, we we play by our own rules.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: At least like the lyrics I've I'm saying are just like we when we first came out as codependents, a lot of the punk purists were like, they hate rap, a lot of them, you know, but I don't I don't think that's I don't think that's everybody clearly.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: But when they started hearing rap on the code defendants record that was aligned with Fat Records and whatever, they were really mad about hearing rap.
11:31
SPEAKER_01: And so this was sort of a middle finger to all that.
11:34
SPEAKER_01: Like this is a our our version of punk is punk to me has always been more about energy, community, and and I don't know, just an anti-authoritarian stance in general.
11:45
SPEAKER_01: It's like that's my version of punk.
11:47
SPEAKER_01: So it and we didn't never have much to do with genre, including the early days when Dubregae was was all over punk music and in England.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: It's like it's it's always been a punk punk rock as we know it has sort of you know has has changed many times, but it's always been kind of open to genre shifting, in my opinion.
12:09
SPEAKER_01: So people trying to gatekeep that I think is bullshit.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: So that's sort of what we're talking about.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: Sam?
12:19
SPEAKER_02: Nah.
12:19
SPEAKER_02: They people can chime in with their two cents, like everybody can have their their opinion of like what there's so many there's so many subgenres within every genre, you know, and there's subgenres and subgenres now.
12:35
SPEAKER_02: It's it's just like it's too subjective to even have a rational conversation about.
12:41
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, absolutely.
12:42
SPEAKER_00: People just look at music as being music anymore.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: And to to me, that's kind of encouraging to a certain extent.
12:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:48
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we're from the gen I mean, we're from generations of like skate videos and stuff, or it was, you know, it was like Helmet, and then the Far Side, and then Fagazzi, and then like the Minuteman, or like Mike Watt or something, you know?
13:05
SPEAKER_02: So all the way to like Fleetwood Mac.
13:08
SPEAKER_02: So you really got the the broad strokes of all these different genres, and then we came up and there were iPad or i iPods and the fucking shuffles, and now you know, it went from there being you know the the stoner metalheads, the jocks and the cowboys, you know, and that's all they listened to was their specific genre of music, and that's what how they identified with their you know social groups.
13:34
SPEAKER_02: Now it's just a a melding pot of everything.
13:38
SPEAKER_02: Like you don't know who knows about what, you know?
13:41
SPEAKER_02: So I love it.
13:43
SPEAKER_02: I love this I love this uh direction that it went in because it's just like it opens up to me a lot more music and to everybody else in the world a lot more music than they would have normally had to listen to if you were born in fucking 19, 18 having a fucking piano, you know.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: So what's the biggest evolution between this is crime wave and lifers?
14:10
SPEAKER_01: That's a good question.
14:12
SPEAKER_01: I think uh I I would say from my perspective, Fat Mike's involvement on Lifers, he stepped it up and became a lot more involved with the with the production of the whole thing.
14:26
SPEAKER_01: He produced, of course, he produced the first one as well, but the first album, we kind of brought most of that album to him before he was involved.
14:35
SPEAKER_01: I think with this one, he's super involved in every step of the way, like obsessively involved, you know what I mean?
14:41
SPEAKER_01: So I think that was the big uh the big difference.
14:44
SPEAKER_01: Even though all of us wrote and yeah, there there are a lot more tracks that like Fat Mike had, you know, basically wrote the music for on this album.
14:52
SPEAKER_01: Well, on the first album, he only wrote maybe two or three parts of the album.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
14:59
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
14:59
SPEAKER_02: I'm just glad it it's done so we can write more like new stuff.
15:03
SPEAKER_02: I'm always just into writing new shit.
15:06
SPEAKER_02: I'll like I'll like revisit all these songs when it's time to go like tour and we gotta play them all to like push the album, but I'm just like focused on doing all this new stuff that we're currently working on.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: So dude, I think that's the internal struggle of every musician.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: I know back in the day when I was playing in bands, it was like I'd be on the verge of a CD release party, and I'd be like, dude, I'm ready to just release the album after this.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: I'm over this one already.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:32
SPEAKER_02: I mean it's interesting to see albums like that because when the albums are done, it is kind of you know, it it encapsulates that one specific moment in time, you know, the year or the two years that it took to make it.
15:45
SPEAKER_02: And so every time you go back and you revisit it and you listen to it, you're gonna like those emotions and shit are gonna come back up.
15:52
SPEAKER_02: But, you know, as a musician, if you got a 12-song um album, by the time you get to the 12th song, like the first song sucks.
16:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you've already 11 songs better as a musician.
16:07
SPEAKER_02: And so, and you've had to listen to all those songs over and over just to even to record them, and then you have to go tour 'em and you gotta do this, so it's like I don't know.
16:17
SPEAKER_02: I just really enjoy the feeling of writing new shit.
16:21
SPEAKER_01: The songs don't suck, but you just lose perspective when you have to live, you know, chip away over and over again for years.
16:28
SPEAKER_02: So it's it's like saying the same word over, like when you say the same word over and over and over again, just you know, it it just after you know, two minutes, three minutes, it just loses the fact that it's a word and it's just like this weird sound now.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: Right.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: You you almost gain the same perspective when you walk away from a song or a group of songs for a long period of time and then you come back and revisit them again?
16:51
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, absolutely.
16:52
SPEAKER_02: Like I've been digging up a lot of old um stuff from when I was like a teenager when we were doing like the underground hip-hop stuff.
16:59
SPEAKER_02: And it's cool to like just listen to where you're you know, it's like a time capsule, you know.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: You're like, damn, I was super stupid back then.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: Does lifers feel like a more personal or more confrontational album than the last one?
17:14
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: In some ways, for sure.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: Like, think about that last song.
17:18
SPEAKER_01: The last song on the record is I think it's confrontational because we were dealing with a lot of the issues that came out of struggles with management and agencies from our when we first started Codefendants.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: So we are sort of reacting to that in a way.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: Like if you if you listen to De La Soul's first album and then listen to their second album, De La Soul is Dead, this is sort of like our De La Soul is Dead in the sense that we're reacting to the initial response and all the business shit that we had to deal with for the first time, and all the touring and management and agencies that we had to deal with with the first album.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: So that this is kind of like that record.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: In a way, it is more confrontational, you know.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: But I don't know if it's I'm gonna I think the first album's pretty fucking personal.
18:09
SPEAKER_02: So I feel that I feel that it's like that when we came in at a weird time, like right after right as COVID was ending.
18:19
SPEAKER_02: And then we also came in and with uh with a style of music that wasn't easily put anywhere or categorized anywhere.
18:28
SPEAKER_02: So we were kind of just like, you know, nobody really knew what to do with us.
18:32
SPEAKER_02: We made, and we just fucking Mincheski had a conversation about it before we signed up with anyone or even set let anyone fuck with it, was that we were like, look, we have the original demos that we have before any of the labels like even hear it.
18:47
SPEAKER_02: And if they go do some cornball shit with our stuff, we have the original stuff that we made, and we can just say, like, hey, look, this is what we did.
18:56
SPEAKER_02: And I feel like the time that we came in was right at that weird, awkward moment where everybody was kind of realizing that that whole system with the label and these fucking 40 leechers that have these weird fucking jobs that are just filling things, it's an antiquated system now.
19:17
SPEAKER_02: And the gatekeeping shit is all falling apart because there's too much information out there, everything's open source now.
19:23
SPEAKER_02: If you have a fucking half of a brain and a personality and can like freak with other human beings, you can book your own shit, you can manage your own stuff.
19:32
SPEAKER_02: You have to just build your own team.
19:34
SPEAKER_02: You can't let people come in and fucking blow smoke up your ass about what they've done or who they know and how they're gonna fucking do all this stuff for you.
19:45
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like it's like a Coke dealer who's never gonna, they always got fire.
19:49
SPEAKER_02: I got the fire, I got this is pure coke, you know.
19:52
SPEAKER_02: No.
19:53
SPEAKER_02: Like I don't even buy it, don't ever buy off anyone that says it's pure.
19:56
SPEAKER_02: You know, buy off the dudes that's like, yeah, this is normal ass coke, bro.
19:59
SPEAKER_02: It's just mid.
20:00
SPEAKER_02: You know, at least you can trust that person.
20:03
SPEAKER_02: But I feel like that's that's the the the shape of the record labels when we came in, or at least the people that fucking got thrown into our cipher, um, which were a few, you know, a couple bad apples, but they were just like that's what they were.
20:19
SPEAKER_02: They were like, it's fire, it's fire, it's fire, it's fire, and then just ship the bed around every corner and we paid for it.
20:26
SPEAKER_02: You know, we had to take a whole year basically off to regroup, but now we have an amazing fucking team and the people at regime are fucking killing it.
20:35
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
20:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, our manager Phil is just fucking just, I don't know.
20:42
SPEAKER_02: Just it's great.
20:44
SPEAKER_02: It's great.
20:45
SPEAKER_02: I like we we really like where we're where we're going right now and trying to put it all together so we're in charge of what's going on, and everybody that's on the team is gonna is equally distributed the fucking income when it comes in because everyone works just as hard.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: So I love that, man.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: You guys have another single coming soon.
21:05
SPEAKER_00: It's called Lonely Life.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: Jacob Noel stars in the video.
21:09
SPEAKER_00: I have watched a sneak preview of video, and anybody that's watching or listening to this, dude, you gotta check it out the minute it drops.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: It's absolute fire.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: How did that connection with Jacob happen?
21:21
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that happened with the regime team that we've been working with, which which we just shouted out.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: Jacob and Sublime work with regime that they they uh are managed and basically they run the distribution and and everything for Sublime as well.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: So we we started working with them earlier this year and uh actually, well, sorry, not earlier, this last year, about end of last year, and uh and Kevin at Regime hooked that up.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: Like he he introduced us, he introduced us to Jacob.
21:56
SPEAKER_01: Jacob was injured during the shoot and And he was on tour with his band Jacobs Castle and came all the way down from the Bay Area to South Central LA first thing in the morning to shoot that and was such a trooper and was super.
22:12
SPEAKER_02: After playing a show with a broken leg, he drove fucking down with his homie and made it.
22:17
SPEAKER_02: He thought he was just and he was just under the impression he was gonna be doing like a walk-on roll or just some background stuff.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: And there was like, you know, day up, they're like, now he's the main main person in the videos.
22:30
SPEAKER_02: He had like a full day of work ahead of him.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: He's an awesome fucking dude.
22:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we were there basically all day till like 11 at night shooting that video, and he was a trooper the whole way and super cool.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: So what can fans that haven't seen it yet, I don't know when this is gonna drop exactly, what can they expect visually from the video?
22:52
SPEAKER_02: I use the they use the cameras that they filmed the Dune with the Dune movies and the show Severance.
23:00
SPEAKER_02: So it's like really clean, I don't know, it's fucking futuristic.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it it it represents, you know, some of my lyrics, and especially like the the first uh the first verse of the song is about alienation in modern times, right?
23:17
SPEAKER_01: I feeling like we're connected to everybody through social media, whatever, yet still feeling alienated and not really connected at all.
23:26
SPEAKER_01: So we're so the director took those lyrics and kind of made this concept of us being in this glass box while this kind of paparazzi is looking at us, and Jacob's playing the role of uh of an off office worker who's losing his fucking mind and in this glass box while everyone's staring and pointing fingers at him.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: And so yeah, that's kind of the concept behind it.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: Love it.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: And you guys have a show coming up, I think what, March 5th with Jacob's Castle as well?
23:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's uh a showcase for Regime.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: Pretty much everyone, uh a bunch of the groups involved with Regime.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: Regime also goes way back with uh with in the hip-hop world as well, you know, dealing with um dilated peoples and uh um Everlast and House of Pain and um you know they go they go way back with a lot of with a lot of accent hip-hop, but this is more on the rock side of things.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: Um and it's a showcase of for the groups that they're involved with.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: Now you guys have shared stages with exhibit dilated peoples who you just mentioned, DJ Quick, and of course, as we talked about working with the DOC, that's some rare air to be breathing.
24:46
SPEAKER_00: What have you guys learned from hip hop royalty like that?
24:51
SPEAKER_02: Well, I learned that that Mike learned not to walk into uh people's recording booths while they're recording, wasn't fucking miming, trying to tell them what to do.
24:58
SPEAKER_02: What is that story?
24:59
SPEAKER_02: There was like a there was that it was just like a it was just like a funny moment where uh we were we were with one of the dudes from Wu Tang and he was doing a verse and uh Mike was like I don't like how he's doing his verse.
25:13
SPEAKER_02: He's like I gotta tell him how to how to how to spit that and I was like Mike like don't you don't go tell the man no Mike just don't do it and so he he like fucking went in there and did it and the dude was like yo man you better get the fuck out of this fucking Mike booth like let me do what the fuck I'm supposed to do.
25:36
SPEAKER_02: I was in the I was like in the engineers just laughing.
25:38
SPEAKER_02: I was like fuck man, it's so funny.
25:41
SPEAKER_02: But um, I mean I mean it's been like I said before, it's just it's just like extremely extremely humbling, and we're like we're super fortunate to be in some of the circles that we get to be in and actually get like paid attention for like music and stuff.
25:58
SPEAKER_02: So you know, I think that our main goal is just to like just stay stay doing what we've always been doing, and that's just be fucking weird, weird music people, weird weird music artist types, you know?
26:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like for me, I feel like I came up more in hip-hop.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: I I did solo stuff for over over 20 years, and I came up even though I was in bands early on and doing hardcore and punk rock kind of stuff.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: I was I came up more in hip-hop and I got to meet a lot of my heroes in hip-hop early.
26:37
SPEAKER_01: Now I've been over the last few years, I've been meeting a lot of my heroes from punk rock.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: And and you know, we're sharing stages with descendants and circle jerks and people like that.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: It's it's insane for me, even though it's kind of been the opposite.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: Like Sam has been in that punk rock world a lot more, you know, ever since Get Dead started.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's it's been a big shift for me.
26:59
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, hip-hop is actually something I'm a little more accustomed to being around, and and those OGs, you know.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: So it's been cool.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: Whether it be punk or hip-hop, is there somebody that's still on your dream collaboration list that you haven't worked with yet?
27:14
SPEAKER_00: Tom Waits.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: That's a good choice.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: I'd say Andre 3000.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: Oh, hell yeah.
27:19
SPEAKER_00: Oh hell yeah.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: Gosh, both of you guys, great answers.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, hey, I mean, what up to you?
27:27
SPEAKER_02: You know?
27:28
SPEAKER_02: I thought it was good work.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: Damn, damn.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: So any of the artists that you've worked with, whether it be in either community, have any of them given you advice that's kind of stuck with you over the years?
27:40
SPEAKER_02: My I mean, fat mic told me a long time ago when um after our got signed to Fat Records, was that the uh most punk rock thing you can do is apologize.
27:54
SPEAKER_02: And the only other thing I heard was if if you wanted to have longevity within the music industry, especially if you're gonna be in a band, the you can't you can't have resentment towards other people getting opportunities that you think that you should have gotten, or you know, you think that you deserve this because you've put in this much time doing it.
28:18
SPEAKER_02: It just doesn't work like that.
28:20
SPEAKER_02: Like you gotta be doing it just to be doing it.
28:22
SPEAKER_02: I mean me and between me and Chefski we have probably over 50 years of, you know, playing for three people you know, on the floor on the floor co coffee shops and shit, you know.
28:35
SPEAKER_02: So not ever thinking, you know, it was like being a skateboarder back in like 1990 or something, you know, it's like there's just there was no out there's nowhere you're gonna go with it.
28:45
SPEAKER_02: You're doing it because you you just you have to do it.
28:50
SPEAKER_02: You know you just gotta stick with it and do it because you love doing it and it'll it'll show up, you know.
28:58
SPEAKER_02: Or it won't.
28:59
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't know.
29:00
SPEAKER_02: How about you, Chelsea?
29:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just learned over the years that the thing that's been the most effective and what I've seen is a combination of just what I call illogical persistence.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of what Sam's talking about.
29:17
SPEAKER_01: You don't you don't persist just because you're just because you're seeing things happen as far as your career or whatever.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: You you do it because it's something that doesn't even make sense.
29:28
SPEAKER_01: You have to drop everything to drop everything and make yourself have no other option.
29:34
SPEAKER_01: And I've and I've had I've had older, more established artists kind of tell me that as well.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: When you when you kind of look at uh when you look at music as a hobby and not your entire life, that's kind of when you when you start letting go of it.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
29:50
SPEAKER_01: Another thing I've learned is that comfort is the death of creativity.
29:55
unknown: Yes.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: The more comfortable you are, um, the less you're pushed to create something that makes you feel.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: Um and I I've experienced that in small degrees, so I I kind of see it.
30:09
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we we experienced it when we lived with uh when we moved out here to Vegas with that mic, we lived in like this straight mansion.
30:16
SPEAKER_02: We had like a fucking waterfall and a trampoline in the ground, and there was ping pong tables and pool tables and a movie theater, and the whole Fat Records recording studio is down in the basement.
30:28
SPEAKER_02: I didn't write one fucking song for a year.
30:31
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we finished a couple songs, but I didn't write one song per year, and then when the the day I was like, you know, I'm not gonna be staying here, I'm gonna like be grabbing my own spot.
30:43
SPEAKER_02: The day I s I just said that like three songs came out in like a week.
30:49
SPEAKER_02: You know, and it's because like Chesky just said, like cut I mean, it's it's it's a weird fucking thing because you don't want to get cliche with it, and you don't want to say that like yo, you have to suffer to make art.
31:02
SPEAKER_02: You know, but at the end of the day, it is what it fucking is.
31:05
SPEAKER_02: Nobody wants to hear how tight the mansion is or how tight the fucking tour bus is, or fucking how much and you know, how many songs are about being happy.
31:15
SPEAKER_02: I mean probably three of them.
31:17
SPEAKER_02: You know, you got you got don't worry, be happy.
31:20
SPEAKER_02: You got fucking, you got happy if you're happy and if you're happy and you know it, clap your hands.
31:27
SPEAKER_02: There's like three fucking songs, you know.
31:28
SPEAKER_02: Nobody gives a you know, but that being that being said, it's like uh my my friend Jabber has some stickers, he uh does stuff with Inner Klein and some great artists, but he's got stickers that says you you you don't need a lot to have enough.
31:45
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: Those are good words, man.
31:48
SPEAKER_02: So it's uh it's you gotta just kind of keep your keep your ego in check and make sure that if you're getting if you're getting extras, the people around you are get are getting run off of that.
32:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: So when lifers drops April 3rd, what do you want people walking away with?
32:09
SPEAKER_02: Fucking three copies each.
32:11
SPEAKER_02: No shit.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: Honestly, as far as when they listen to the record, I just hope that it can alter some of their perspectives.
32:22
SPEAKER_01: You know, anytime I release a record sometimes I think about how much a sentence, a single sentence, can change someone's day.
32:32
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you can walk into a room and scream something and it and it changes someone's entire perspective on life.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: And uh, I think there's a there are moments on this new album that that could do that, you know, or at least help people help people think about the state of the world a little bit better, or state of think of the state of their own lives a little more.
32:50
SPEAKER_01: I mean that's all that's all we could hope for with art.
32:53
SPEAKER_01: It's us having a conversation with other people about what we're experiencing, and uh hopefully if they could connect with it in some way, that's that's the that's the goal, you know.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: That's all it's ever been.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: So, what does success look like for co-defendants in the rest of 2026?
33:12
SPEAKER_00: Work, work, work, work, work, work.
33:15
SPEAKER_02: That's it.
33:16
SPEAKER_02: That's all we want to do is work.
33:17
SPEAKER_01: Just consistent work.
33:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just consistent.
33:21
SPEAKER_02: We're really excited to be uh getting the our our whole band is like now solidified with our friends from Zeta.
33:29
SPEAKER_02: You know, we have Tony and Chino, and then we also have Marcel who's doing our sound everywhere we go, who's really like dialed it in.
33:36
SPEAKER_02: And this year we get to try to carve out as much time as we can with Zeta to actually um write music with them instead of getting the music to play because they're they're all such amazing musicians, and I'm really excited to see what that psychedelic rock codependence meld type shit comes out with because it's fun.
33:57
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's playing with them is fucking amazing.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: Dude, that's amazing.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: Album drops April 3rd, 2026.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm stoked for it.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: I've heard it, I've heard a nice little sneak preview of it.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: I actually did a little drive around town Wednesday afternoon.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: Car was just bouncing full volume.
34:17
SPEAKER_00: I cannot wait for the rest of the world to hear it.
34:20
SPEAKER_00: Guys, thank you.
34:22
SPEAKER_00: Let everybody know that's watching or listening where they can find you guys online.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: The main place is uh Instagram.
34:31
SPEAKER_01: That's the most updated place, and we're codifendants legal fund on Instagram.
34:35
SPEAKER_02: So fuck yeah, I love that.
34:37
SPEAKER_02: Check that out.
34:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and we'll be uh we'll be releasing uh uh our own little uh website here coming up where we're gonna have like more interactive stuff and more content coming out and oh yeah, codefendants legalfund.com also yeah.
34:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:51
SPEAKER_01: And we're we're working on more stuff to connect even uh on a more personal level people directly.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: Because Crime Wave, this is Simewave, is our community and our label that we're starting as well with the help of Regime.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: And and so yeah, that's what's that's what's going down.
35:11
unknown: Yes.
35:12
SPEAKER_00: I love it, guys.
35:13
SPEAKER_00: Guys, I have really enjoyed getting to know you.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, I would love it if you know maybe a little later down the line we uh we circle back and we talk about things after the album drops.
35:26
SPEAKER_02: Anytime, man.
35:27
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna be having uh we're gonna be uh doing podcasting over here too.
35:32
SPEAKER_02: So we'd love to talk some shit uh back and forth.
35:35
SPEAKER_02: We're also gonna be having uh doing a reoccurring fat mic's fat mic again.
35:39
SPEAKER_02: He's gonna come through and sit down periodically with us and do some stuff.
35:43
SPEAKER_02: So we look forward to it, man.
35:45
SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much for having us on here.
35:47
SPEAKER_02: We really do appreciate it.
35:48
SPEAKER_00: Sam Chesky, thank you.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: The code defendants, guys, check them out online.
35:53
SPEAKER_00: Guys, the world is a much better place with you in it.
35:56
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for doing the show.
35:57
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Chester.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: Okay, thank you, man.
36:00
SPEAKER_00: Once again, I'd like to thank my friends Sam and Chesky for joining me on the show today.
36:06
SPEAKER_00: Give them a follow at codefendants underscore legal underscore fun on Instagram.
36:13
SPEAKER_00: Check out their new music as soon as you can.
36:17
SPEAKER_00: The video for Lonely Life just dropped.
36:19
SPEAKER_00: It features Jacob Noel of Sublime.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: Check it out.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: Great guys, album comes out in April.
36:26
SPEAKER_00: You heard it all.
36:27
SPEAKER_00: While you're being generous with the follows, make sure you're following Caught on the Mike on all social media platforms.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: Give me a subscribe on YouTube, and you can visit me at my website, www.caughtonthemic.com.
36:41
SPEAKER_00: Shoot me an email, caught on the mic, m-e at gmail.com for all guest inquiries.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: This has been Caught on the Mic with Michael Clark.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm Michael Clark.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: Until next time, thank you.