Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Chef John Brand | Building a Successful Restaurant Ep. 134

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Chef John Brand | Building a Successful Restaurant Ep. 134 · Chef's PSA Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello chefs, this is Chefs KSA podcast.
• 0:02
  I'm your host Andre Natera. On today's episode I have my
• 0:05
  friend Chef John Brand, been a chef for over 30 years.
• 0:09
  He is currently the director of Culinary endeavors in San
• 0:12
  Antonio, TX, which he overseas and is involved in a lot of
• 0:17
  restaurants at the Pearl. This episode we get into
• 0:20
  basically building a restaurant from zero.
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  Everything from the RFP, dealing with ownership, creating the
• 0:29
  right concept, building a culture, getting the right team,
• 0:32
  hiring them, and what it takes to be successful.
• 0:35
  You don't want to miss this one. I hope you enjoy this
• 0:37
  conversation as much as I did. This episode of Chef's PSA is
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• 1:26
  It's good to see you for people that don't know, because you
• 1:29
  have a very complicated job that you do.
• 1:31
  You're you're a chef, but you're also a lot of other things.
• 1:34
  And I feel like you got a lot of irons in the fire.
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  So I can't do a good job explaining exactly what it is
• 1:41
  that you do, even though I did like my little 10 second intro.
• 1:44
  Can you tell people just kind of what your job is?
• 1:47
  Well, I mean, my history is, is as of a chef, but you know, 30
• 1:50
  some 36 some years in a kitchen. But and now I work for a group
• 1:56
  and and I think my title is director of culinary endeavors,
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  which is encompasses a whole bunch of things to do with
• 2:03
  restaurants, with kitchens, with operators within finding future
• 2:06
  operators. And another part of that is last
• 2:10
  year we founded a hospitality Academy and, and so we started
• 2:14
  teaching some classes, which is where you and I got degree
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  introduced again as a, as a speaker for, for this program.
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  And now this Academy is off and running.
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  And now I'm just on a strategic advisor for it.
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  But my role as in my title, I work for a small equity group
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  that helps fund other restaurants.
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  In the portfolio of restaurants that you have, how many, how
• 2:37
  many are kind of how many were you involved with?
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  I'm involved with more than a dozen, more than a dozen that
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  are that are that we are are primarily active in and then
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  we're also investing in more. So we have three more
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  opportunities opening up next year, few more new spaces, three
• 2:53
  more the year after that and two and two to four and 27.
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  So for people that don't know, this is all mostly inside of the
• 3:00
  Pearl, yes? Or is it all all inside the
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  Pearl? All of it's inside of Pearl and
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  a Pearl format of expanding. So some great restaurants in
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  there. And then you know there and if
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  there was an opportunity for a second Gen. space in there, we
• 3:11
  would be a part of that as well. So for people that are
• 3:14
  listening, people that are in San Antonio, obviously the CIA
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  is right there, but you have a ton of restaurants with some
• 3:19
  great chefs. You have, you know, the Emmer
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  and Ride Group has the the Poland Market and Isador with,
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  you know, Ladino and Cosi Cured is there.
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  I'm trying to think of all the great restaurants that are
• 3:30
  there. Well, Sully and Manchi Shu, I
• 3:32
  would, I also, you know, recognizing of this Sully and
• 3:36
  Manchi Shu restaurant group that that that's based on property
• 3:39
  who do quite well. But yeah, there's, there's 28
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  plus restaurants on, on property right now.
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  Not in addition, there's a there's a food hall, and within
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  the Pullman, there's four restaurants alone.
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  Yeah. So if you had to come up with
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  what a winning strategy looks like, so obviously you've seen a
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  lot of these restaurants come in, some be successful, maybe
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  some more successful than others.
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  What is a winning strategy look like for people listening that
• 4:01
  are thinking I want to open up my own restaurant?
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  What are some things that you need to take into consideration?
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  I would, you know, look at what if you're going into business,
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  you're going in there to create a customer.
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  So what kind of customer are you going to try and create and what
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  and why? Why do you need this or why do
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  they need this? So understanding how the if
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  you're going to put some create a menu, create a restaurant,
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  create a space, what about it is compelling to to draw a customer
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  into it? And and then knowing on your
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  winning strategy of who, who is that customer?
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  What is their household income? What do you expect to make?
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  What kind of what kind of food are you going to serve that
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  would drive a business? And if that guest is, is if, if
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  you are serving some quick, fast and easy and convenient, it's a
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  short walk up, you're doing a great service and plus your
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  location is going to matter a little bit too.
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  Who are you competing against and what are you doing to stay
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  in your lane? Like what's your identity?
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  So as a as a young chef or a young restaurant tour that wants
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  to get into it, you, you almost need your own board of directors
• 4:58
  to help guide you in that right path.
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  You know, personal board of directors.
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  You have a lot of different restaurants and there's some,
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  you know, more fine dining, some Mediterranean, some Mexican,
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  some How do you, if someone's looking to build a restaurant
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  and come into this group, how much are they looking at the
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  competition and saying you want to absolutely do nothing like
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  this style of food, not only from a price standpoint, but
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  also from a concept standpoint? Yep.
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  Yep. And that's part that's part of
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  what what we do is help balance it out so no one cannibalizes
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  each other. We don't really want to see it.
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  And yeah, a lot of places, let's say you take a burger, for
• 5:35
  example, a lot of places have a burger on the menu.
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  We get that, but it's not it's not the identity of the
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  restaurant, but items that are on your menu.
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  You should stand out for what you have.
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  So knowing who you are as a chef or what your restaurant stands
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  for, those are the items that people are going to be drawn to.
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  And having menu items that are, like I said, compelling and not
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  groceries. Like she didn't want to put
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  stuff in there. I can make it home.
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  I would I go out to have you make it and the dentist 1800 I
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  give up. I'll just go there to eat
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  because it's what I already had. What do you, what do you mean by
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  it not just being groceries? You're talking about just
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  ingredients? Yeah, you do at home.
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  Yeah, exactly. Have a have a in it.
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  What you know, I'm I'm more in saving ingredient based chef.
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  So I mean, sometimes I work best with it, with sourcing with with
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  best with, you know, with minor manipulation, you know, and what
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  can you do from scratch that made that makes it taste good?
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  What's the story behind the story is huge.
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  You can't just put on a mini and not expect to to let it sell,
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  sell. It could be Lt. but what's the
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  story behind the BLT? Let's make it.
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  Let's come up with something. You can say it's my grandma's
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  recipe. Great.
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  But you know, maybe your grandma wasn't a good cook.
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  You know what, maybe. But you know what, like what did
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  you? But that's a great story.
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  So you can tell like I learned this from my grandma, whatever,
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  whatever it might be. So I suggest that your menu
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  items and the balance of those don't run into conflict with
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  what your neighbors are selling. You know, you think of
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  commercial real estate. No one.
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  You have to put 2 nail salons in a commercial real estate because
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  they can't. But you don't want to put 2
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  restaurants at the same time next to each other because you
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  want you want to have that variety.
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  So there's a, there's this restaurant in Detroit that
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  serves Coney dogs, right? They're right next to each
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  other, right? Right.
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  And so they're competing. And I think the story is like
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  they were brothers or they're, they're relatives of some sort.
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  And now they're, everyone goes to 1, then they go to the other
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  the same thing like Philly cheese steaks.
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  There's a lot of restaurants like that, but that's not
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  necessarily the best business model.
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  So there's unicorns out there that exist that, but for the
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  most, for the most part, you don't want to be serving the
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  exact same thing that your neighbors, right?
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  Right. When I was still chefing, I used
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  to get really frustrated when I would come up with dishes and,
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  and you know, back then all chefs were borrowing inspired,
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  stealing ideas, right? And it would frustrate me like
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  someone down the street that's my competition would serve the
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  exact same thing that I'm serving.
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  It's like steal from Chicago, steal from another city, don't
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  steal from down the block. Back in the day, you used to
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  steal from our cooling air or something like that.
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  I got that. I can.
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  But before you could track it, now you have Instagram and
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  digital and you can track everything immediately.
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  But back then you couldn't. You could.
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  You could look at Gourmet and say I must twist that.
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  Find a way to make it work and do it 100 times tonight.
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  Have you ever been in a situation now where you know
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  people are coming in with new ideas and how do you, how do you
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  guide them and say, hey, look, maybe that's not the right
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  concept for what we're doing here?
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  How do you how do you have those conversations with chefs and
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  restaurant tours when they're coming in to be so that they're
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  good partners? I think showing them the
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  landscape of the area, like what what's missing and what we know
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  is missing. I mean, anybody can pick anybody
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  can pick apart a restaurant menu or, or how many, how many
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  restaurants are on that street that are too many, but helping
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  them balance out like this is what's really missing.
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  This is this is the information that we have.
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  We kind of know when the traffic's coming.
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  We get we know when are on based on sales.
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  We know what we kind of know what people are buying.
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  We know what's man, we know what's missing.
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  And just because it's missing doesn't mean you have to do it
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  or you get to do it. If you want to fill a void and
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  that menu item, let's have the whole concept work around that.
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  So I helping them balance that out and then knowing what
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  they're sourcing is going to be is can they get a year round or
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  is it just the is just the quick seasonal thing?
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  And if it's something is on the menu way past its season, the
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  customer can spot that real quickly.
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  No one has to eat watermelon salad right now.
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  Yeah, no, no. So for restaurants that are now
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  coming in and now they're established, the brick and
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  mortar is built, the operations are going, what is some of that
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  winning strategy to stay open and, and have longevity in the
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  game so that they're not, you know, open one year and then all
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  of a sudden they have this this downturn in business and they're
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  you're looking to get a new restaurant in there.
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  You know, I think also it all starts with, with a, with a
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  guest, obviously. So if you're, if you're
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  successful, you have guests in seats and, and, and yeah, people
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  vote with their fork, right. And so you got to listen to
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  that. You got to watch what, watch
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  what you're serving, how much of it you're serving and what, what
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  is, what is actually being cleared from the table as well.
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  And I kind of tell you what, what, what your right amount is.
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  So getting to know the guests and that starts with hospitality
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  at the at the front door and and and just inviting the guests to
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  come in. I would recommend getting to
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  know your your customer a little bit the regulars, you know, if
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  there's some way you're able to keep track of things, you get to
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  know names. Smile is huge.
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  So that that wouldn't open up a lot of doors as far as to
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  staying open is building that loyal clientele.
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  And too often where they there's a restaurant, there's not.
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  There's just service. There's no engagement.
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  Right, One of the things that you all do very well is you have
• 10:37
  this hospitality cat. We were touching on that
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  earlier. But what's unique is that it
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  pulls from all the different from Hotel Emma, from the
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  restaurants to pulling in future leaders and bright, bright
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  leaders to come and learn from, you know, the brightest minds,
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  right, right, right, right, right, right.
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  So I think that's pretty interesting that, that the
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  investment in the people is there because you, you clearly
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  have a culture of hospitality. And for people that don't know,
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  like if you're in the San Antonio area, I've said this
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  1000 times, the best hotel I've ever stayed at is hotel I'm in
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  Texas. It's it's amazing.
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  And you could see the hospitality and the attention to
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  detail. They just got two Michelin keys.
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  So I mean, that says a lot. 2 Michelin keys.
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  I think it's incredible. But that whole area has really
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  become, I don't want to say it's a food Mecca in Texas, but it
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  kind of is. It's evolving into that.
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  There's obviously other great spots in Texas in Austin,
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  Houston and Dallas. But I feel like in San Antonio,
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  like, wow, you you can't, you could, you can't throw, you
• 11:42
  could throw a rock and hit a great restaurant.
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  Right right there, right, right, right.
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  Has the perspective changed on from the San Antonio dining
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  scene since the introduction of all these great restaurants?
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  In the yeah, I think it's helped the rest of the city.
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  I'd like to think that there it's fun to have that sense of
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  discovery and, and and and people love to have that little.
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  I found this place or I have this place, right.
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  And, and some of some of them are at Pearl and some other
• 12:06
  parts of the city. So I do believe it.
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  It's it's brought more energy to San Antonio.
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  San Antonio is great as a tourist destination.
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  It's great grapes. Livable city.
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  But most people only think of the River walk, right?
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  Right. Or the hour we're.
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  Still on the River Walk, but we're just, you know, a mile and
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  a half from an epicenter of it, right?
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  We're creating our own end of it.
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  Right. And you have the CIA right
• 12:28
  there, which is now this, it's this incubator for talent,
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  right. So now, now you have the
• 12:34
  opportunity to go to the CIA and then you could work in the
• 12:37
  Pearl, you could work at any of those restaurants.
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  And then it expect it trickles out into the rest of the city.
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  Yeah. So overall.
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  Then and there are some Michelin award and recognized chefs that
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  came out of that CIA program in San Antonio.
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  That's right. Shout out to Diego into the CIA.
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  He's a CIA graduate. And Nicola and Nicola.
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  Yeah. So Michelin, it's it's producing
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  Michigan start. So that's, that's a big attract
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  attraction for young talent to move to San Antonio.
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  It's becoming, I mean, it's giving the other Texas major
• 13:07
  cities a run for your money, right.
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  So let's just say new restaurant is opening.
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  What's the advice that you're and, and specifically in the
• 13:15
  Pearl, but this could also be general advice to other chefs
• 13:17
  and restaurant tours that are opening restaurants.
• 13:20
  What is the the advice that you're giving to a new
• 13:23
  restaurant owner to set them up for success?
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  Outside of, you know, outside of their of their, of their
• 13:31
  funding, but knowing what their financial sourcing is and what,
• 13:33
  what their expenses are going to be.
• 13:35
  Too often they just want to do something, but they haven't
• 13:37
  figured out everything to cooking is the easy part.
• 13:41
  The rest of it is, is and that's, that's almost less than
• 13:43
  half the job. So you know, knowing what
• 13:45
  everything costs, knowing what all your, your expenses are,
• 13:49
  what your lease is, what's all detailed in your lease, what,
• 13:53
  what your, what your human capital costs are, which don't
• 13:55
  always get considered in and how.
• 13:58
  And then from that, you know, what are your core values as a,
• 14:00
  as an operator? What are your non negotiables
• 14:02
  that you want to have for yourself and also for your
• 14:05
  people and for your customer? So for people that have never
• 14:08
  opened up a restaurant, and there's a lot of young chefs
• 14:12
  that listen to this and that, you know, they have a dream of
• 14:14
  one day open up a restaurant on average, what is a brand new
• 14:18
  build restaurant going to cost? Couple million.
• 14:22
  Yeah, for an elaborate restaurant.
• 14:24
  Oh, a little bit more, yeah. Four or five maybe.
• 14:26
  Easy, easy. And then for, you know, just
• 14:29
  the, the, the, the basic restaurant in a box.
• 14:34
  Oh, less than a million or less. You know, it's obviously there.
• 14:38
  You know, having a second Gen. space is great between the kind
• 14:41
  of living with someone else's. Explain what that means for
• 14:44
  people. Second generation space, like it
• 14:46
  was a restaurant before and it's and the hood's already in place
• 14:48
  and and the equipment's probably 23510 years old.
• 14:53
  You might have to replace it, but you might be able to live
• 14:54
  with it and work. It might lower your your entry
• 14:57
  cost to get into. So it's a little bit more
• 14:59
  turnkey. Yeah, exactly.
• 15:00
  And probably and probably a quicker turnkey.
• 15:02
  So like you better have your concept and your ideas and your
• 15:04
  program down pat because that build up, there's no build.
• 15:08
  It's like it's empty now. We need to go in there and you
• 15:10
  have three months to get it up and running before you start
• 15:12
  paying rent. So you were talking about making
• 15:16
  sure that you understand understand your financials in
• 15:18
  and out. We talked about this with
• 15:20
  Tavelle on the on the last episode.
• 15:21
  Like if you think you have $1,000,000 but you don't know
• 15:24
  where it's going, you don't have a million.
• 15:25
  Dollars, right? No.
• 15:27
  You need to know where every single dollar is going and where
• 15:29
  your spend is, what your margins are, what your projected margins
• 15:32
  are, and then how to pivot. Yes, right.
• 15:34
  If if you're not hitting the number, I think.
• 15:36
  Right and then and having almost an emergency fund, right, So you
• 15:40
  never have to do a capital call like how, how how can you say so
• 15:44
  far had that your payroll account Denver gets below that
• 15:47
  you never that you can always provide for your people.
• 15:49
  So you said something interesting.
• 15:51
  So for people that are like, I want to open up a restaurant and
• 15:53
  then they're like, what's a capital call?
• 15:55
  What is that? So what is that?
• 15:57
  What is that phone call? Capital call would be like you
• 15:59
  need some capital to make payroll, you need to and you're
• 16:02
  going to look to your investor. Right, we didn't make enough
• 16:04
  money. Yes, exactly.
• 16:05
  And we have X amount of employees that need to be paid.
• 16:07
  Yeah. And then and you have a
• 16:08
  percentage in a business and maybe maybe you're 5050, maybe
• 16:11
  you're I would recommend everybody's 51 or 49, right?
• 16:14
  And then someone gets that pick up that that missing piece.
• 16:18
  So the capital call is usually probably not so great, you know,
• 16:21
  because normally that means there's other things going on.
• 16:23
  Yes, yes. And someone needs to come to the
• 16:25
  table. Now a quick cap I'll call if
• 16:26
  you're, if you're active and operating well, well that might
• 16:29
  mean, you know that might be need to be a reduction staff and
• 16:32
  and one of those investors needs to come in and work basically to
• 16:35
  help offset some of the costs. So for restaurants that are in
• 16:39
  that situation, you know, you're opening up a restaurant.
• 16:42
  So now, you know, OK, we we know what we know where our money's
• 16:45
  going. Now, what are some of the other
• 16:47
  things that we're looking at? How do we build that identity of
• 16:50
  what that restaurant looks like to make sure it's successful?
• 16:54
  It kind of goes back to the what, what is your local market
• 16:57
  relevance in the community? How are you going to show up in
• 16:59
  the community? And what, what do you, you can't
• 17:02
  tell the customers what they need and you know, they're going
• 17:06
  to tell you what they need. So listen to your community and
• 17:09
  like what, you know, advice would be like what's missing in
• 17:12
  your area that you feel like you have a need to compel a need to,
• 17:16
  to do, Because if you start telling me you need to eat my
• 17:19
  food and you need to eat it this way and you're going to love
• 17:21
  this and we're only open for five hours a day.
• 17:23
  They're like, we don't need that.
• 17:25
  You know, it doesn't work here. Doesn't, doesn't, this community
• 17:28
  doesn't, doesn't, doesn't. There's no, it doesn't fit
• 17:31
  anywhere and you have no competition for it.
• 17:34
  Right. I was talking, you know, I
• 17:35
  talked to a lot of chefs. I was talking to a chef the
• 17:37
  other day. I won't say who, but it's, it's
• 17:39
  almost like, and this has happened and you know, this has
• 17:42
  happened. The owner gets a phone call from
• 17:44
  one of their buddies. Hey, I ate in your restaurant.
• 17:46
  You really need this on the menu.
• 17:47
  And I really think it would be better if you had if you started
• 17:49
  doing this right? And they don't really know
• 17:51
  anything about this is the owner's friend personal
• 17:54
  reference. And so the owner gets a lot of
• 17:56
  this feedback from their friends that they invited in to eat who
• 17:59
  don't eat at that restaurant regularly.
• 18:01
  They just came in because. And then they that trickles down
• 18:04
  to the operators and say, Hey, we need a rebrand.
• 18:06
  My friend says we need we need chicken fingers on the menu.
• 18:09
  Right, right, right. I had somewhere since I, I moved
• 18:12
  across country for a job and the first thing I did is I rewrote
• 18:15
  the menu from what was existing. It was second Gen. space and and
• 18:19
  I took it off and, and sure enough, one of the the head
• 18:21
  people comes up and says you can't do that.
• 18:22
  It's my wife's favorite dish. I'm like, I didn't move across
• 18:25
  country to make a crab cake. I'm not different.
• 18:27
  Right, right. So how do you, how do you manage
• 18:32
  the relationships between the, the, the people in the building,
• 18:35
  the, the chef operators, owners, and then, you know, the, the
• 18:39
  investment team, the people that are financing in.
• 18:41
  So it's now that 4951 split, someone has 51% of the vote, but
• 18:46
  sometimes that fifty or more or more, right?
• 18:48
  But that 51% of the vote sometimes wants to do things
• 18:52
  because they they have those knee jerk reactions.
• 18:56
  They do. I think all comes back to our
• 18:58
  relationships. It just comes to to to to being
• 19:01
  approachable and always being able to have a conversation and
• 19:04
  talk to talk few things. And if there is a red flag,
• 19:06
  being able and willing to answer any question and talking through
• 19:10
  it, Let it. Let's not telling people what to
• 19:12
  do. I mean what they're that they're
• 19:14
  the genius. They're the artists in the room.
• 19:16
  Let them do what they know best and it's helping and steer him a
• 19:20
  little bit if they need it but don't.
• 19:22
  But it's last seen the last thing, you know, we've all had a
• 19:26
  lot of bosses. You know, no one needs another
• 19:28
  boss. You know, they need some help,
• 19:30
  need some guidance. It kind of goes back to that
• 19:31
  board of directors comment like have some people who are your
• 19:33
  mentors, who are your guide? Who can, who can you take a
• 19:36
  little wisdom from? What would you do in a
• 19:38
  situation? Type as you ask a lot of
• 19:40
  questions and listen. I used to.
• 19:43
  I have a I've said this before and yesterday I said you have
• 19:45
  capitalists hiring artists and then they wonder why the
• 19:47
  relationship doesn't work. Yes.
• 19:49
  Right. You know, we're in, it's a
• 19:51
  restaurant business. Like, no, I'm in it for the art
• 19:52
  and craft events. Like, OK, it's like oil and
• 19:55
  vinegar. Right.
• 19:55
  Let's say I've had plenty of people come and tell me what
• 19:57
  kind of restaurant I need there. Well, I don't need that right
• 20:00
  now. So going back to the subject of
• 20:02
  a new restaurant coming in, how do they look at the org chart?
• 20:06
  Like how are how are they developing not only just the
• 20:08
  restaurant but also that org chart when it comes to the
• 20:13
  opinions at the table? The OR charters that you know
• 20:18
  that the person on top is the one who's making the decisions.
• 20:20
  But but who else is? Who else is going to be there
• 20:22
  when they're not there? Because they're not going to
• 20:24
  always be the main operator in the building at all time.
• 20:27
  But who do you call when there's when there's an issue?
• 20:29
  When and that issue, you'd hope you don't have to call a whole
• 20:33
  happy do an emergency text at some point because something
• 20:35
  happened because they'd already be aware of it and they would
• 20:37
  just handle it. But who is there?
• 20:39
  First Lieutenant? Who's the one on the line?
• 20:41
  Who's there? Who's there chef to party?
• 20:43
  Who's the one you can go to? Who's the one that you can count
• 20:45
  on on being there? So as long as they have that
• 20:47
  involved and it's not just based on a random schedule that you
• 20:52
  know who who's in charge at all times, who's going to be in the
• 20:55
  building. That's huge presence, presence
• 20:57
  wins. There's plenty of of vacant
• 21:01
  owners and operators or you know, for a while, you know that
• 21:05
  there was a back under. There was a lot of restaurants
• 21:07
  for the this chef's last name was not here.
• 21:09
  Oh, chef's not here, right? Or Chef just left and I you
• 21:13
  change the name. I came in here looking for that
• 21:16
  person. Or I guess I was looking for
• 21:17
  that person and they had a new last.
• 21:19
  Name Vegas had a problem with them, right?
• 21:21
  That was the Vegas problem, yeah.
• 21:23
  Where's Gordon Ramsay? Where's Joel Robichon?
• 21:25
  Right, right, right. That's why you like your
• 21:28
  comments of, you know, shake in, shake out.
• 21:30
  Everybody knows that that person left or not.
• 21:32
  Yeah. When, when you're building that
• 21:35
  org chart and you're looking at the team that you're developing,
• 21:38
  how important is it to, to make sure that the right positions,
• 21:45
  the not just the right positions, but the right amount
• 21:47
  of positions? Because a lot of times we open,
• 21:49
  it's like we need a Psalm, we need a back waiter, we need 2
• 21:51
  back waiters. We need an expediter, we need,
• 21:53
  we need 2 hostesses, we need the dream maker.
• 21:55
  And you know, and you have all these ideas and it sounds good
• 21:58
  when you're just opening the restaurant and you're creating
• 22:00
  dreams. It's a lot of payroll.
• 22:02
  It's a lot of payroll, and then the reality kicks in when
• 22:07
  someone's just building a restaurant.
• 22:09
  How do you get involved to sometimes have those more
• 22:13
  difficult conversations and say, hey, I know you think that's the
• 22:17
  right move, but I promise you, based on opening 12 restaurants
• 22:22
  in this location, that might not be the right way.
• 22:25
  I think that causes it in the, in the, in the, in the business
• 22:28
  plan process like filling out that business plan.
• 22:30
  And once you put in those numbers for what your salaries
• 22:31
  are going to be and all the extra costs when it comes to
• 22:34
  human capital costs, when it comes to the healthcare and so
• 22:36
  forth, you really see what, what, what's your return on that
• 22:40
  going to be? And is that?
• 22:42
  Where does that weight lie in those columns?
• 22:45
  And it might be in salary, it might be in front of house
• 22:48
  wages. It might be in back of house
• 22:49
  wages. And then help that almost helps
• 22:52
  determine your menu. Like how deep is a is a wine
• 22:54
  program going to be if we don't have a Psalm or what, what, what
• 22:58
  are we trying to to fill here? Because when you start filling
• 23:01
  out those numbers for first year, second year, and then you
• 23:03
  blow that up to 10 years, you're going to see like when, when
• 23:06
  you, when are you going to expect to return?
• 23:08
  It wasn't an acceptable amount of time or expect to return.
• 23:11
  You know, 2-3, four years would be great.
• 23:13
  You know, it takes a couple years for a rush and I get its
• 23:15
  footing and its identity and to kind of come out of the get its
• 23:18
  groove, but that they should be making money by 5 and 677 years.
• 23:24
  It should be. But if they're not, then there's
• 23:26
  some, there's a a problem in that business plan somewhere
• 23:30
  where their expenses are. And you would know that upfront,
• 23:33
  I guess is my point. Before he got.
• 23:34
  So, yeah, you want all this now you need a building.
• 23:37
  You can't just raise many prices there to meet that.
• 23:39
  Like now, you might have to open up for a lunch service or a
• 23:41
  breakfast service, whatever it is to cover your costs.
• 23:43
  Right, and a lot of restaurants, you know, they when they're
• 23:46
  opening up, like you have these ideas, like I want a dinner only
• 23:48
  restaurant close two days a week and you know, everyone gets two
• 23:50
  days off and or we're going to go to the Fort.
• 23:52
  Like it all sounds great until you put on paper and you're
• 23:54
  like, how are we going to do this?
• 23:56
  One of the challenges, and I push back on this is a lot of
• 24:00
  people are talking about like the industry needs to change.
• 24:03
  And it leads to look at this like the reason I don't touch on
• 24:06
  that subject a lot is because I don't know how to fix that
• 24:08
  problem. It's like I don't know how to
• 24:10
  fix where all flows two days a week, everyone gets two days
• 24:13
  off, 4 day, four day work weeks. Everyone only works 40 because
• 24:17
  there's a lot of other problems that go into that, you know,
• 24:19
  there there's a talent pool, there's a limited number of
• 24:22
  resources that you're working with in in terms of the people
• 24:25
  that work in the kitchen. There's turnover, there's demand
• 24:29
  there. We're not making up.
• 24:30
  We need to open up for brunch, which is like my pet peeve,
• 24:33
  right? We're not doing business is in
• 24:34
  great open up for brunch, solve it.
• 24:37
  You got to figure it out, right? So a lot of these conversations
• 24:39
  have to come up in in the restaurant world and I don't
• 24:43
  know how to solve it. That's why I don't necessarily
• 24:46
  say I got all the answers. This is what it is.
• 24:48
  I was specifically with that because I do think that at a
• 24:50
  certain point when you're looking at the business, you
• 24:53
  realize it's not a playground and your margins are that thin.
• 24:56
  And sometimes you're not making any money and you're pulling,
• 24:59
  you know, you're, you're working through a slow summer out of
• 25:01
  negative because you know you're going to make money in September
• 25:04
  and October, whatever the case may be.
• 25:06
  That's something that I think a lot of people don't fully factor
• 25:09
  in when they're opening up their first restaurant.
• 25:11
  I was talking with, I was talking with Tavelle on the, on
• 25:14
  the last episode and we were talking about COVID and we were
• 25:17
  saying that when it was announced in, in Texas, it was
• 25:20
  during South by. And so a lot of these
• 25:22
  restaurants had were sold out, booked for private parties and
• 25:26
  they had their bills paid for the next three months.
• 25:29
  And then when South by Southwest cancelled, all these other
• 25:33
  restaurants just lost the amount.
• 25:36
  They lost the money that was going to carry them for the next
• 25:38
  four or five months. And so when you're opening these
• 25:41
  restaurants, how important is it to have these mitigation plans
• 25:44
  in place? Massive.
• 25:47
  Is that, is that part of the opening strategy that you're?
• 25:49
  Talking about operating expenses, like your free opening
• 25:51
  expenses as well as like what, what's going to carry you and
• 25:54
  then how far? Because you don't want, you'd
• 25:57
  hate to go down the road and realize that you're just
• 25:59
  bleeding right away. Because if that's no fun for
• 26:01
  anybody and it could be those costs, you got to find out where
• 26:04
  those costs are tied up. Some, some will say, well, it's
• 26:06
  in the menu. We got to fix the menu and put
• 26:08
  different things in menu. And then then you lose your
• 26:09
  identity because you keep changing it and shape shifting
• 26:11
  it or, or you change the, the staffing payroll somehow.
• 26:14
  Like I've seen people go from, well, they've been hourly.
• 26:17
  I'm gonna make them salary this week.
• 26:18
  I can't just do that just to save costs.
• 26:21
  Well, and also we were talking about this earlier, the owner
• 26:23
  comes in or an owner, an owner comes in and says, Hey, I, I, I
• 26:26
  talked to my friends. We are not doing the business we
• 26:29
  want, but business isn't terrible.
• 26:31
  It's just OK. It's not where you want it, but
• 26:33
  it's just OK. And they say we need a rebranded
• 26:35
  reconcept thinking that it's going to bring all this new,
• 26:40
  these new diners in. It doesn't work that way.
• 26:42
  They've already given you the chance.
• 26:43
  It just because you said we're no longer Italian fine dining,
• 26:48
  now we're Italian red sauce is like, OK, I'm still not coming
• 26:50
  back. Right, right, right and any cuz
• 26:51
  you haven't. And now you lost the ones that
• 26:53
  you did. Have yes, yes, and you lost the
• 26:55
  menu items that were people came for specifically.
• 26:58
  I always want to have that dish, whether I ordered it or not.
• 27:00
  I knew that they always had and it was consistent and and then
• 27:03
  it's a ton of investment that you just lost not only your name
• 27:06
  and your location, but if you didn't open up right, you're
• 27:08
  toast and you can you can hardly fix it.
• 27:11
  And when you change in your identity, you don't know what
• 27:15
  lane you're in and you try and throw a bunch of things at the
• 27:17
  menu and like if you have an Italian restaurant Maxine or
• 27:20
  you're serving sushi and burgers, like wait a minute,
• 27:22
  what are you? That's not what I came for and.
• 27:25
  So now you're alienating your, your, your loyal guests to pivot
• 27:29
  to a concept that also might not work right, right.
• 27:32
  And then you, you might have just speed up the closing
• 27:36
  process, right by changing concepts midway instead of
• 27:40
  instead of looking at what it is.
• 27:41
  And so how do we fine tune what we're doing?
• 27:42
  Is it, is it a marketing push? So.
• 27:45
  If it is those menu items that the owner said wanted, say
• 27:47
  great, I'll run it from special. Let me run it and see how it
• 27:50
  goes. I mean, let me sell it on the
• 27:51
  inside. Let me run it to the team first.
• 27:54
  Let me run it to the guest first.
• 27:55
  We'll see how this really bounces back.
• 27:58
  So if you have this restaurant that's in existence and they are
• 28:00
  struggling a little bit, what are some of the initial
• 28:05
  strategies that you guys come to the table with and said, OK,
• 28:08
  we're not where we need to be. We're we're about 60% of where
• 28:11
  we'd like to be. What what are some some of the
• 28:14
  the first things that you're going to look at to give the
• 28:16
  business a little bit of a push to bring them back?
• 28:19
  And I would recommend this, and I've done this and, and, and not
• 28:21
  just where I work now, but in, but in, in a, in a former life.
• 28:26
  But it's, it's never a surprise, especially if you have about,
• 28:28
  let's say a monthly OPS review, like come to the table, let's do
• 28:31
  a monthly OPS review and let's tell, tell us where you're at.
• 28:34
  You, you know, where you're at, where you spent the most money
• 28:36
  on. Why did they go up front and do
• 28:38
  the insurance costs come up, whatever it might be?
• 28:40
  Like where do these expenses come from?
• 28:42
  And are you paying an influencer now to put some stuff out like
• 28:45
  he didn't budget for? I've seen places for forget the
• 28:48
  budget for Christmas trees, like, oh, well, now we got to
• 28:51
  spend some money on that because we didn't put in the budget.
• 28:53
  But none of it should be a surprise on expenses.
• 28:56
  Yes, if somebody leaves the operation and you're vacant and
• 28:59
  you have a hole and there's a salary to fill, that could be a
• 29:02
  surprise. But if you have a monthly option
• 29:06
  review with your partner or with your, if it's, if you're the CEO
• 29:09
  or whatever, whatever role you're playing, if you're always
• 29:12
  at the table, it won't be a surprise.
• 29:13
  What are some unconventional tactics that you've seen that
• 29:16
  have worked well that you know the audience could learn from
• 29:20
  When to bring the business back? And commercial tactics would be.
• 29:24
  Let's get the story of, of, of who's whose face is on that
• 29:28
  place, who's the identity? What's the story of that person,
• 29:30
  let's say, or what's the story of that food and why guests
• 29:33
  should come there. So non conventional tactic would
• 29:35
  be let's do benefit at volunteering for the for the
• 29:39
  food bank. Great, great thing to do get you
• 29:40
  get your name and your face out there.
• 29:43
  Any, any there's always a charity event going around and
• 29:46
  always doing being present at those because how you show up in
• 29:50
  a community is going to help bring in some more guests.
• 29:52
  Yeah, you might be just serving a little something on toast, but
• 29:56
  you're going to engage with some guests that you wouldn't
• 29:57
  normally get a chance to see. And if it's at the right market,
• 30:02
  let's say if it's at the right place, you know, if maybe you
• 30:05
  have a favorite farmer, maybe go to their farmers market.
• 30:07
  You pop in and do something with them, like partner up with
• 30:10
  somebody. There's, there's tons of access.
• 30:12
  But if you don't show up in the world and you just play, I'm
• 30:14
  quiet, I'm hidden, I'm not, don't look at me.
• 30:17
  Or if you show up too forcefully, it's hard telling
• 30:19
  people what they need to eat, then you're not really being
• 30:22
  present to it. But be open and available.
• 30:24
  I mean, humility is the biggest thing, you know.
• 30:26
  Open and available. The willingness to learn in the
• 30:28
  face of reality. Yeah, I, I know because of what
• 30:32
  I do. You got to, you got to put
• 30:33
  yourself out there. People see you, right?
• 30:35
  So whether for me it's like the podcast or social media,
• 30:38
  whatever. It's good to be relevant.
• 30:39
  It's very. Good to be relevant, have the
• 30:40
  right guests on for me. But one of the things that I
• 30:43
  used to do when I was a chef, and I would advise this for
• 30:46
  people, this is kind of an unconventional tactic is get on
• 30:49
  some boards with some different organizations, whether it's the
• 30:53
  the food and wine board or the culinary school board, Get
• 30:55
  people to know you. One of the things that I used to
• 30:58
  do when I would do like the food festival circuit, especially if
• 31:01
  I was on the board, right, which always help is I'd say I want
• 31:05
  this spot between these two restaurants because I know if
• 31:09
  they're coming to if they're coming to the hottest BBQ spot
• 31:11
  and they're coming to the hottest restaurant and I'm
• 31:13
  sandwiched in the middle, right, You're going to you're going.
• 31:16
  To get some ancillary right. So positioning yourself at these
• 31:20
  food festivals, being at the right ones.
• 31:23
  And that's also something is like every now and again, when I
• 31:26
  was a chef, I would say I want to be in as many food festivals
• 31:29
  initially as I can. And then after a while you pick
• 31:31
  and choose, right? Once they know you, it's like,
• 31:33
  no, I, I don't do that one, but I will do this one.
• 31:35
  And you get into the right ones. Who else is going to be there?
• 31:37
  OK, right. And you and you start to
• 31:39
  associate your, your name or your restaurant or your brand
• 31:43
  with these other ones. Everyone just assumes, OK,
• 31:45
  they're at the same level. And I think that's something
• 31:47
  that a lot of people, a lot of people don't see the the
• 31:53
  immediate ROI when they do these food festivals.
• 31:55
  And then, but as a, as a young chef, I would, I would recommend
• 31:57
  you volunteer one of those. Yeah, because no one's going to
• 32:00
  turn down free help like Chef. I'm here, I work here, I'm going
• 32:02
  to school here. Whatever might be.
• 32:03
  Let's go and, and just watch and learn and do whatever they say.
• 32:06
  Yeah, you're going to get connected, but you're going to
• 32:08
  witness so many things that you could never get in a day of
• 32:11
  school or a day at work. And all the people you're going
• 32:14
  to run across, like I saw them, I saw them perform that.
• 32:16
  I saw them do that. I saw how popular were or how
• 32:18
  least popular work, what dishes work, what don't.
• 32:21
  But that's advice for young chef.
• 32:22
  You want to get out there and see what work really works with
• 32:24
  the crowd because there's some fantastic personalities out
• 32:27
  there. And something else.
• 32:29
  Just shake their hand and say, hey, I'm looking for a job if
• 32:32
  you're hiring, right? Right, right.
• 32:34
  And you'd be very surprised how many chefs are going to say, you
• 32:37
  know what? I have a vacancy and now I know
• 32:38
  your name and I know your face and I like the fact that you
• 32:41
  help me. You're in, right?
• 32:43
  Sometimes it's just that easy. Right.
• 32:44
  And that's what's great about the guide that came out.
• 32:47
  But I remember back when the Sagat guide was around, you
• 32:49
  would get applications from people would say like I saw your
• 32:52
  saw your restaurant in the Zagat.
• 32:54
  I want to work. Into the Zagat?
• 32:55
  I don't know. I don't know.
• 32:58
  I was thinking about that the other day.
• 32:59
  Turned into something else. I forgot what it was, but I
• 33:02
  remember getting like actual letters from people saying I saw
• 33:05
  you again, you know, do you have any opportunities?
• 33:07
  I mean, that's like porn, honey down your ears of the chef.
• 33:09
  Like I'd like to work for somebody who was recognized,
• 33:11
  right. And if you and if you are at
• 33:13
  these festivals or these events, the volunteer like you know, for
• 33:17
  whether a share of strength or or no kid hungry, whatever it
• 33:20
  might be, you can get get in front of these folks and and it
• 33:24
  could help your career quite a bit.
• 33:25
  Yeah, I want to talk about, I want to talk about two things.
• 33:29
  I want to talk about the, the business plan, the the beginning
• 33:32
  stages when someone's opening up a restaurant and starting with
• 33:36
  the business plan, but then also going into the RFP.
• 33:39
  What, what is it that makes a good business plan for the, for
• 33:44
  the, for the person that's opening for the, the restaurant,
• 33:47
  but also for someone that's reviewing the business plan and
• 33:51
  looking at the RFP, What are you, what are you looking for
• 33:53
  also? I'm looking for for their voice
• 33:56
  and a part of it. I don't want it.
• 33:57
  I don't want the business plan where they're just numbers
• 34:00
  filled in and then they have to try to meet those numbers.
• 34:02
  I'd like them to help fill it out.
• 34:04
  And we'll go by each day part. Like what do you think you're
• 34:07
  going to do for lunch on January 17th?
• 34:09
  And let's and then what's your average check going to be for
• 34:11
  that? And then we'll kind of look at
• 34:12
  that through seasonality and do that for every day of the year.
• 34:17
  What, what days are going to be closing on Christmas And we'll
• 34:19
  make sure we cross that day off. And then we'll do all that math.
• 34:23
  And how many guests do you think you're really going to do and
• 34:26
  knowing in the area what your comp set is, how many, how many
• 34:29
  guests, how many are they doing? And if you have access to that
• 34:32
  information or a few visited those restaurants, like man,
• 34:35
  they're they're jamming for lunch.
• 34:36
  OK, I could probably get some of this business or they're really
• 34:40
  slow for lunch. I'm not going to get much at
• 34:41
  all, but their their take out is huge.
• 34:45
  So what's the missing on on on that?
• 34:48
  So I recommend by once you go through that those you're going
• 34:51
  to get a Goodyear of sales basically.
• 34:54
  And then you can multiply that by 10 and figure out a 10 year
• 34:57
  plan. But then you start figuring all
• 34:59
  the other costs. How many people are going to
• 35:00
  end? I've had operators actually
• 35:01
  write out schedules for the year, like who's going to be
• 35:04
  there, what hours they're going to work and what shifts are
• 35:07
  going to get covered by the hours of operation, What's the
• 35:09
  prep time and so forth. Is there a commissary involved
• 35:12
  for some of them, for some of them knowing all of your
• 35:15
  details, what do you, I would just know all your costs.
• 35:19
  You know, I had somebody come in and say that they were paying,
• 35:21
  you know, a couple 100 bucks a month lesson in kitchen dish
• 35:25
  machine supplies. Like where are you getting those
• 35:27
  from? Because there's no one I can get
• 35:29
  them for that cheap. You know, they did it fall off a
• 35:31
  truck. Like where, where, where are
• 35:32
  these costs going? Because that's those aren't real
• 35:34
  costs. So having that balance of
• 35:36
  knowing what are true costs within the market helps quite a
• 35:40
  bit. And then if, if you were going
• 35:45
  to give advice to someone, so we, we talked about making sure
• 35:47
  that you know all your numbers, you know, every single day you
• 35:49
  have schedules written out. But what are some of the other
• 35:51
  things that make a good business plan that they should?
• 35:56
  What are some of the things that they should check off to make
• 35:57
  sure that they give it to anyone before they before the potential
• 36:01
  investor looks at it? I think I think it can go into
• 36:07
  how is your customer going to be that?
• 36:09
  Do they like it? Are they just going to use it
• 36:10
  when they feel like it or they do they love it or do they
• 36:13
  identify with it? How does your customer, how are
• 36:16
  you going to keep that customer and knowing before it gets
• 36:19
  checked out, they need to know where you sit in the market and
• 36:22
  how often, how frequent is this going to be and what's the.
• 36:25
  And so, yeah, you look at, you know, people get done like a
• 36:29
  lease could be 10 years is, is scary because thinking of some
• 36:32
  concepts of how long do they how long before they change or the
• 36:34
  chef changes or, or that food style changes and it's just not
• 36:38
  relevant anymore. Think of the old cuisines that
• 36:40
  that that used to be real popular that you don't see any
• 36:43
  restaurants like them anymore. So what's the longevity of that
• 36:47
  concept? Is it is the true least really
• 36:50
  only five years or is it? Is it can it be 10?
• 36:53
  Is it is it a there's some foot that will always BBQ will always
• 36:57
  be with us. So anybody does that.
• 36:58
  You're you're great. That's not that's never going to
• 37:00
  leave. But there are some concepts out
• 37:01
  there that hinge on on time and they hinge on the household
• 37:06
  income of your guests. Once that guest ages out,
• 37:10
  they're not going to be your guests anymore.
• 37:11
  What are some of those Evergreen concept that you could look at
• 37:15
  and say it's going to be good, it was good 10 years ago, it's
• 37:18
  going to be good 10 years from now?
• 37:20
  A good Anything that that invokes a story or a piece of
• 37:24
  nostalgia. If you think of a If you think
• 37:29
  of a well, let's say found a table, I mean that's there
• 37:32
  anything that that that can use locally sourced one because that
• 37:35
  allows a lot more creativity within a chef.
• 37:36
  So somebody who's going to want to know that their food's coming
• 37:39
  from a local source, probably not every ingredient, but a
• 37:42
  good, good portion of it. Anything of a European concept
• 37:46
  is going to last a bit. Well, they won't guest want to
• 37:49
  know what they're going out for brought for French tonight,
• 37:51
  brought for Italian tonight. We're going out for Spanish
• 37:53
  tonight. Those will always stay no matter
• 37:56
  who's running the ship because everybody wants it.
• 37:58
  But once you start getting into, I'm not knocking on, you know,
• 38:04
  not a negative comment, but once you start getting into Country
• 38:08
  Club food, you know, where every, every guest is an owner
• 38:10
  of the menu and you have a wide variety of different things.
• 38:13
  And it just becomes it's ubiquitous items that that no
• 38:18
  one really wants. I always, I'm always fearful of
• 38:20
  menus that have that have culinary bankruptcy written all
• 38:23
  over them. Nope, Chef gave up.
• 38:24
  We just mailed it in and now we're all serving cop salads.
• 38:28
  It's a great cop salad, but tell me the story behind it first.
• 38:31
  Don't just put it on a mini and walk away.
• 38:33
  There's there's that period in time where it's like, and no
• 38:35
  knock 10, it was like, everyone has Brussels sprouts, everyone
• 38:37
  has a charcuterie board, everyone has a flatbread.
• 38:39
  Like it's just the Evergreen items.
• 38:42
  OK, There's there's nothing here that you can't really find in
• 38:45
  any other restaurant. It's it's your version of of
• 38:48
  this dish. But like where else we got?
• 38:50
  Nothing, Yeah, nothing that we do is is it hasn't been done
• 38:55
  already. It's that much difference.
• 38:58
  Now, if you were, if you had a crystal ball and you, and you
• 39:02
  were thinking like, OK, this is a, this is a unique concept that
• 39:07
  really needs to be explored more, right?
• 39:09
  You, you, you see like based on all the restaurants that that
• 39:13
  are in the Pearl, what do you see coming down the road that is
• 39:16
  maybe just at its beginning stages and, and pretty soon you
• 39:19
  feel it's going to be ubiquitous everywhere.
• 39:22
  I I not predicting for the Pearl, but I would predict for I
• 39:25
  would I would think there would be a stronger surge towards I
• 39:30
  like to I like to see more from South America and more from more
• 39:33
  from Africa. I'd love to see some more of
• 39:35
  that cuisine start shaping up our our menus or our
• 39:39
  restaurants. Specifically, like specific
• 39:42
  South America. Peru, Colombia, I think there is
• 39:46
  some Brazil officer there and it's not just their, not just
• 39:51
  the ingredients, but I do think that there is a it's another
• 39:55
  frontier and we're always looking for a sense of
• 39:57
  discovery. So what are we going to discover
• 39:59
  yet that's not being done. I know I'm not predicting
• 40:01
  anything, but I would like to think that we've covered a lot
• 40:05
  of ground in the last. 100 years, that's that's in the
• 40:08
  United States. That's undiscovered territory.
• 40:10
  Yeah, yeah. So I want to talk about again,
• 40:13
  we're building a successful restaurant.
• 40:15
  One of the most important things is employee retention, making
• 40:17
  sure you have the right team, hiring.
• 40:20
  What are some of the strategies that you think are the most
• 40:25
  successful to make sure that you're building the right team,
• 40:27
  building the right culture, and also through building that that
• 40:31
  culture, you have great retention, low turnover.
• 40:36
  It's higher, I see it's always hiring the right person, but
• 40:39
  what? But knowing what that person, if
• 40:41
  they have a goal and a succession plan for themselves,
• 40:43
  you know, somebody just wants to be a soldier and and be a line
• 40:46
  cook, they're that that's fine and good, but but they should
• 40:49
  also have a dream as well and what what they want to and how
• 40:51
  can you where do you see them in your organization have a goal
• 40:56
  for them as well? Do you, do you have like
• 40:57
  specific hiring questions and how you filter people out?
• 41:01
  Yeah, I mean. Personally, I mean.
• 41:03
  Personally, yeah, I want to know.
• 41:05
  I want to know what they cook on their day off.
• 41:07
  I want to know what they spend their money on.
• 41:09
  And when it comes to food, you know, if they have just a couple
• 41:13
  knives but a whole lot of tattoos, you know, maybe not the
• 41:15
  right place to be putting your money out.
• 41:16
  You know, what are they spending their money on?
• 41:18
  Travel to go out to a bunch of different restaurants.
• 41:19
  Have they have they experienced the range of BBQ to Taco stand
• 41:26
  to to Michelin have it? Where have they been that really
• 41:29
  inspires them and where do they want to go?
• 41:32
  Where where is there? If they're super happy to stay
• 41:35
  in that same place, fantastic. Let's explore everything in this
• 41:38
  area and get to know the entire market.
• 41:40
  And that means not just like restaurants, but I'll run the
• 41:44
  gamut of a high dollar to low dollar one.
• 41:46
  When you were still chefing, were you, were you putting
• 41:49
  people through like a cooking practical?
• 41:50
  Yeah, yeah. What was it?
• 41:52
  I used to do simple ones and I was like several, like flip a
• 41:56
  couple eggs, cut some chives. Let's see you know that they're
• 41:59
  straight. Let's see how you do it, how you
• 42:01
  clean, how your night skills were.
• 42:03
  I haven't make a burger, just make a burger.
• 42:05
  That's an identity, just something everybody has a
• 42:07
  burger. What's your burger?
• 42:08
  And let that seat it together. So those are yeah.
• 42:12
  I used to do make a vinegar. I'd do the do the whole thing,
• 42:15
  bake a cake, whatever it might be based on the job.
• 42:17
  One hand quinelles, that was a big one too, that that could
• 42:20
  tell you a lot right away off of off of somebody.
• 42:23
  Yeah, I would always do a little bit of something.
• 42:26
  And that wasn't just make a whole dish because then that's
• 42:30
  kind of stage or, you know, some people would try to bring in
• 42:33
  food like, no, no, no, get on the line and just work with
• 42:35
  somebody. I want to see how you connect
• 42:36
  with them. Right, it's interesting that you
• 42:40
  say like cut chives or make a one hand canal, sometimes flip
• 42:43
  an egg, right. What I would tell people is like
• 42:45
  make an omelette diced onion. That's it though.
• 42:46
  That's all I want to see and dice at the best of your ability
• 42:51
  and make the omelette to the best of your ability, like the
• 42:53
  most perfect diced onion. And then you see like it's a,
• 42:56
  it's a poorly diced onion. And you think that's if that's
• 43:00
  the best, right? I know where.
• 43:01
  You're at right, right. There's no wrong answer, you
• 43:03
  just know where they're at. But, and hopefully they haven't
• 43:06
  talked too big of a game or too less of a game in themselves,
• 43:09
  but they've shown up and are willing to do whatever you ask
• 43:12
  them to do. It's funny what I would do
• 43:14
  cooking practicals for. Usually I would do a more
• 43:16
  serious cooking, practical sous chefing up and once they would
• 43:19
  find out. So mine was like an artichoke, a
• 43:21
  whole artichoke, a whole, a live lobster of a whole fish and a
• 43:24
  whole chicken. And I would tell them, look, you
• 43:27
  have two days, three days, however long you want, but I
• 43:29
  want to see two dishes with each ingredient.
• 43:31
  And you can use anything you want.
• 43:34
  You have complete access to the kitchen, and you can take as
• 43:37
  long as you want. And you'd be surprised how many
• 43:38
  people wouldn't show up. Oh, really?
• 43:40
  Yeah. Once they knew what it was like,
• 43:43
  because you know this like they're now in a sous chef
• 43:46
  position or up and they skipped a couple of things like I would
• 43:50
  buy my fish already cut so I don't know how to butcher a
• 43:52
  fish. Or I bought all my artichokes in
• 43:54
  a can and I know I'm cooking tomorrow and I've never cleaned
• 43:59
  an artichoke and I don't have enough time to learn how to
• 44:02
  clean the artichoke. One of the task was to tornado a
• 44:05
  potato. Yeah.
• 44:06
  And you go home with potatoes, and you used to be practicing
• 44:08
  all night, right? Can you still tornado potatoes?
• 44:10
  No, not as well as I used. To I can still flute a mushroom.
• 44:12
  Yeah, Yeah, I can still flute a mushroom.
• 44:13
  I was, I was, you know, Thanksgiving recently and I had
• 44:17
  carrots. I was like, can I still tornado?
• 44:18
  Yeah, right. So I grabbed Noah was looking
• 44:20
  I'm tornado carrots. Like that's not good.
• 44:22
  But back part of back to part of that practical was also to to
• 44:25
  eat with that person. Yeah, and, and, and not just
• 44:28
  once, but twice to see what they they ordered.
• 44:30
  Say, are they exploratory in their menu?
• 44:32
  It's, I mean, I had a interview on a chef interview once and the
• 44:36
  candidate ordered the same moment two days in a row.
• 44:38
  I'm like, he came all the way here.
• 44:40
  Do I have the same thing twice? You know, they give him a job
• 44:42
  specifically for that because he wasn't willing to try out the
• 44:45
  rest of the menu. Interesting.
• 44:47
  And so now that they're in the building, you've hired them.
• 44:50
  They they cut the chives beautifully and they ordered
• 44:53
  something different for breakfast.
• 44:54
  Right. So now that they're in the
• 44:56
  building, how do you structure the culture so that you have
• 45:00
  less turnover? What's your retention plan?
• 45:04
  First starts out, which is respect for each other and
• 45:06
  respect for everybody's job. And I would say that that that
• 45:09
  person, that culture is going to show up best for them if they
• 45:12
  can do about any job and they don't hold it as power over
• 45:15
  their their positional authority over somebody else.
• 45:19
  The broom doesn't know who used it.
• 45:20
  So they they should be able to sweep the floor and mop the
• 45:22
  floor as well as anybody else. And it's it.
• 45:26
  By the way, I'm gonna use that on chefs.
• 45:27
  PSA. The broom doesn't know who used
• 45:29
  it. Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna
• 45:31
  put that up maybe tomorrow. I'll tell you that's fine.
• 45:34
  And someone else told me that too.
• 45:36
  Yeah, it's not mine. Yeah, yeah.
• 45:37
  It's a good one though. But I always remember that
• 45:40
  because it doesn't, doesn't matter who's in the in the room.
• 45:43
  You don't need a, a name on your jacket to, to tell you who's in
• 45:46
  charge. It's you would know that within
• 45:48
  the first 3 milliseconds of walking in the room, who's,
• 45:50
  who's looking at you, You can tell who's in charge in that
• 45:53
  room. And it may not be the chef, and
• 45:54
  maybe it might be a wine cook. Yeah, it's interesting that you
• 45:57
  bring that up. Early in my career.
• 45:58
  I went through this phase, you know, it's like my second
• 46:01
  executive chef job. I went through this phase where
• 46:03
  I got rid of the the title. Yeah, it's just, you know, plain
• 46:05
  white chef. Like I'm just one.
• 46:06
  I'm done, man. I was like, and someone one of
• 46:09
  the the newer cooks was back then is like you'd needed
• 46:12
  embroidery back, right? Right.
• 46:13
  Like nowadays you don't. Need.
• 46:15
  Yeah, now you don't need it. But back then you needed your
• 46:18
  embroidery, right? And so one of the newer cooks
• 46:20
  from culinary school said, hey, chef, why don't you wear your
• 46:23
  embroidery like executive chef or whatever it is?
• 46:26
  I said, because I think you should know that I'm the chef
• 46:30
  based on how I on on how I carry myself.
• 46:33
  He's like, yeah, I didn't know you were the chef for weeks.
• 46:37
  So I was like, OK, lesson learned.
• 46:39
  I wasn't carried myself well in that kitchen.
• 46:42
  I just thought that was funny. It's like, yeah, that that I was
• 46:44
  going for something and it completely backfired on me.
• 46:47
  That was too funny. So now you're building the the,
• 46:51
  the kitchen culture. And if you had to build the
• 46:56
  perfect kitchen culture in your mind, what would that look like?
• 47:00
  What are what are some of the top things?
• 47:02
  You know, let's just say the top three or four things that that
• 47:05
  would would be non negotiables in your kitchen.
• 47:08
  And I hate to use the non negotiable term but you know
• 47:10
  what I mean. I think carefully knowing,
• 47:12
  knowing what's on the menu would be the first one knowing,
• 47:14
  knowing what you're cooking and knowing and respect for those
• 47:16
  ingredients. And I've seen so many people
• 47:19
  who've never eaten in the restaurant, they don't know that
• 47:21
  they'd even want to want to participate.
• 47:23
  So an invitation to participate and then getting know real
• 47:26
  quickly with who they're working with.
• 47:28
  And it's all because you only know as much as the people you
• 47:30
  work with. But if you come in with your
• 47:31
  head down and you walk in wearing headphones, you're
• 47:34
  already disengaging yourself from from from the process,
• 47:38
  asking a ton of questions, asking if there's notes or how
• 47:42
  it was done, if there's any record of it.
• 47:44
  So you see, you're staying on track.
• 47:46
  Asking for asking for help is a is a huge one.
• 47:50
  Asking if you can stay longer. You're like, is there anything
• 47:52
  else you need? That's all the best words you
• 47:53
  can say is like, what else can I do for you, chef?
• 47:55
  Or what else can I do? So I would look for a culture
• 47:59
  that that's helping each other and that's going to show up
• 48:02
  really well. If you just do your station, do
• 48:04
  your do your job, do your thing and do your prep list and you're
• 48:07
  out, that's not participatory. But but how do you create that
• 48:10
  culture if it if you're taking over as a chef or you're opening
• 48:13
  up and you're starting as your own and maybe these people don't
• 48:16
  know that those are the things that you're looking for.
• 48:19
  I, I part of that would be part of the interview process.
• 48:22
  So it wouldn't be a surprise to them that, that, that they
• 48:26
  should know their job well. I would know their job well and
• 48:28
  I could do it, but I wouldn't use it as power and no one else
• 48:30
  should use it as power. That it's not AI think that
• 48:34
  culture of, of, of, I guess working together and not being
• 48:38
  told, not being told what to do. So people tend to have some
• 48:43
  context and some stories for what you're doing.
• 48:45
  I get it. Makes it easier to relate to.
• 48:48
  One of the ubiquitous challenges that we have in the industry
• 48:52
  there, it's everywhere, is there's sometimes a clash
• 48:55
  between the service team and the culinary team.
• 48:57
  How do you bridge that gap? What are some things that you've
• 49:00
  seen that are success? Family meal?
• 49:01
  Family meal. Yeah.
• 49:02
  Sharing a meal together, inviting them to participate in
• 49:07
  them in the in the plating. In in the plating or in the
• 49:09
  service food. Too often we get what we look
• 49:11
  at, look at food like standing up.
• 49:12
  We're always looking at sitting down.
• 49:14
  And they're the frontline. So what you asking them for
• 49:16
  their feedback? Do you think this is a hot
• 49:21
  topic, right? Do you think it's better to have
• 49:24
  one person in charge, the chef or the GM?
• 49:27
  Or do you like the 5050? I think they're always, there
• 49:32
  always needs to be a 5149 and then it can be the if it's the
• 49:35
  dining room and if it's the dining room, then that person
• 49:37
  should be 51 for which but your partner in the kitchen, it
• 49:40
  should be a 51% who kind of makes that rule.
• 49:43
  But there shouldn't be so many people that no one can manage,
• 49:45
  can't out manage. In my case, if you stress,
• 49:48
  stress managing a six person team, you're not going to do
• 49:51
  what I'll do on 30 or 40 or 50. And, and I think over time, we
• 49:57
  haven't always gotten better at managing more.
• 49:59
  We put more buffers in place and that's, that doesn't always
• 50:02
  help. And then you have these
• 50:04
  divisions that aren't always working together.
• 50:07
  I found I and I agree with you. I found that the most successful
• 50:09
  restaurants usually one person is I know like 11 Madison Park
• 50:12
  might be an exception. They've, they've figured
• 50:15
  something out over there. But I I've seen in my career and
• 50:19
  in most successful restaurants that I know, there is usually
• 50:21
  one person that has 51% of the vote.
• 50:24
  On top of that, if I had to go even further, I would say that
• 50:28
  one person is usually the chef. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 50:31
  Not all, not all cases, but in most cases most successful ones.
• 50:35
  I'd say the person When the chef has 51% of the vote, I usually
• 50:39
  feel like those restaurants, the food is better, the service is
• 50:42
  better, the culture is usually better.
• 50:44
  Usually, obviously there's that's not that's not
• 50:46
  everywhere, but the individual that's carrying the 51 percent
• 50:51
  of oak makes all the difference in the.
• 50:52
  World, they carry a lot of the risk, a lot a lot of the
• 50:55
  responsibility as well. Yeah, that's interesting that
• 50:59
  you say they carry a lot of the risk because they do.
• 51:01
  And I think a lot of people underestimate sometimes when
• 51:05
  you're coming up as a young cook and you see that person, they
• 51:08
  said, well, they get all the glory.
• 51:10
  They get to put all the dishes on the menu, They get all this
• 51:12
  stuff and I'm over here chopping onions all day and they're
• 51:14
  taking credit for my work. It's like, yeah, but they're
• 51:17
  also carrying all the risk. You only see the the positive of
• 51:20
  what they go through. And I.
• 51:22
  Want to ask those people to ask questions of that person
• 51:24
  charging, how did you get here? What did you make any advice for
• 51:27
  somebody else? What would you tell somebody who
• 51:30
  had that had that question to know what they went through?
• 51:32
  Because you might look at it like that way, but you, you
• 51:35
  think of your first chef job, that was a huge amount of weight
• 51:37
  that you were carrying and nobody knew that but you.
• 51:40
  Right, right, right. And you can't show it and some I
• 51:44
  mean you, you show it maybe to to your close inner circle, but
• 51:47
  a lot of people don't understand sometimes when you're the chef,
• 51:50
  especially of a larger operation, you've been a chef of
• 51:52
  a larger operation. As soon as you walk through the
• 51:54
  door, it's like, hey chef, you got a SEC, Hey chef, you got a
• 51:56
  second, you got to go to the hey Chef and no one's ever coming to
• 52:01
  you for something positive. Always falling, The best thing
• 52:06
  is going to happen in the first part of the day and you could be
• 52:08
  the best thing that happens to that person that day, so you
• 52:11
  have to show up positive. If you know, as we're as we're
• 52:15
  getting close to the end is one of the the few questions that I
• 52:17
  I like to wrap up with. If you had to give advice to a
• 52:22
  young green cook that's just starting out in the industry and
• 52:26
  just wants to make it in the world, what would be something
• 52:30
  that you need them to hear now that you wish you had heard when
• 52:33
  you were just starting out? Smile, make connections, be, be
• 52:37
  present, be available. I, I, I wish I had.
• 52:42
  I wish I, I kind of, I, you know, I, I grew up in kitchens
• 52:45
  where talking was the ruin of authority and, and, and so the
• 52:49
  less said was more powerful. And now you have to, now you
• 52:53
  have to talk more. You have to be, you have to be
• 52:55
  more pathetic, be compassionate, be kind.
• 52:58
  That wasn't always the case. I, that it was not, not
• 53:02
  everybody. You do have a voice and you do
• 53:05
  be collaborative. So I would I would encourage the
• 53:09
  young people to to smile, be engaging, be collaborative, get
• 53:12
  some thoughts, and participate. And if you had a chef's PSA out
• 53:17
  there, what to do, what not to do, what would it be?
• 53:21
  Besides, yeah, the broom doesn't know who you.
• 53:23
  I'm going to use that. That's fine.
• 53:26
  I would, I would tell, tell first of all, smile and keep
• 53:29
  yourself clean and organized and get your stuff done on time.
• 53:31
  Yeah, yeah. You might think you need more
• 53:33
  hours in a day of it just means you're working slower to get the
• 53:35
  same amount done. So I, I, I would encourage you
• 53:38
  to to, to taste everything. I could switch stations up, you
• 53:42
  know, cook everything through a good take note, take a ton of
• 53:46
  notes. I used to sleep with with books,
• 53:48
  actually your bed and then take notes every night.
• 53:50
  And if somebody ever called me for a for a menu dish or an item
• 53:53
  or a recipe, I had it back when you used to keep things in paper
• 53:57
  in your in your knife roll. If you could reframe, this is
• 54:01
  something that I was, I think about often.
• 54:03
  If you could reframe once a lot of chefs are really unsecure
• 54:06
  when they come across them. Do they don't know how to do
• 54:08
  right? And instead of embracing it like
• 54:09
  we're talking about the artichokes or whatever, right,
• 54:12
  You need to reframe that as a young cook whenever or, or as a
• 54:16
  chef, even as a mature chef, whenever you come across
• 54:18
  something that you don't know, that should excite you because
• 54:20
  that's a learning opportunity. And when you're in the business
• 54:23
  for quite some time, you get fewer and fewer of those the
• 54:26
  longer you're in it because you, you get a rhythm, you know a lot
• 54:29
  of things. But when you're a young cook,
• 54:30
  everything's new, everything's exciting.
• 54:32
  I don't know what a bechamel is. I don't know what a brew is.
• 54:35
  It's all, it's all new. But then and you're and you were
• 54:38
  OK asking questions when you did it now, but as soon as you
• 54:41
  you're at a place where you do know, all of a sudden when you
• 54:44
  come across something that you don't know, you don't have that
• 54:46
  same excitement. No, because it's a threat on
• 54:48
  your ego. Yeah, And you don't have a
• 54:49
  conviction of the confidence to do it.
• 54:50
  I mean, I remember chefs are doing things, and I thought
• 54:52
  that's the way you always did them because it was golden.
• 54:54
  We were popular, we're successful.
• 54:55
  That was the way to do it. I did it in another kitchen.
• 54:57
  I'm like, who the heck are you? Where'd you learn that?
• 54:59
  That's like a hack move. You would never do that.
• 55:02
  Yeah. And so you learn from that.
• 55:04
  Like, you're right. I didn't.
• 55:05
  I didn't know I was doing it wrong.
• 55:07
  What do you got an example? I can, I can.
• 55:10
  And it was delicious. Don't get me wrong.
• 55:12
  I have great memories of it, but I remember it was a it was a
• 55:16
  hack way of doing duck on feet and it was, it was seasoning it
• 55:20
  in Syria in a pan and then throw in the oven and it wasn't the
• 55:25
  the curing for 24 hours. It wasn't any of that.
• 55:28
  And it wasn't the IT was, it was different and I thought but the
• 55:31
  but doing it for the first time, I thought it was delicious.
• 55:33
  You know, it had five spice, lots of star knees, right,
• 55:36
  right. That fusion thing was going on,
• 55:39
  but I was in. But I thought that wasn't the
• 55:41
  best method and I learned later it wasn't a bad I made and I I
• 55:44
  challenged myself to make a better duck on feet.
• 55:47
  It's funny how I was thinking about this the other day and you
• 55:49
  probably remember this, like when I first worked in a in a
• 55:52
  banquet and catering operation at a hotel, I was so impressed
• 55:56
  by the volume and the numbers that they could just like, how
• 55:57
  do they do it for 200 people, 500 people?
• 55:59
  It just blew my mind, right? And I remember I was a
• 56:03
  relatively green right out of culinary school.
• 56:06
  And there I would idolize these this banquet cook because he
• 56:10
  would he just grilled 500 chicken breasts off and he would
• 56:13
  grab the whole sheet pan and flip it on the grill.
• 56:17
  So when I was doing that sort of vice, I would take all the
• 56:20
  notes, sorry, I would dig out of the garbage the old banquet
• 56:23
  event orders because I would knew what we prepped.
• 56:25
  I would know what what, how much is ordered and then see what
• 56:27
  what actually was leftover and matched off of that knowing I
• 56:30
  was never going to waste that much food again or I was never
• 56:32
  going to run out. No reverse plate UPS, you know,
• 56:34
  for anything like that. So I would track all that and
• 56:37
  keep an eye on like that menu worked or that menu did not
• 56:40
  work. And he's same with the
• 56:41
  restaurant too. This item is on there because
• 56:43
  it's on the banquet menu or this item is on there because so and
• 56:46
  so said it had to be there, but it doesn't sell and you knew
• 56:48
  what the sales were. You get to tell me you're making
• 56:50
  like you never. I wanna be a mass station.
• 56:52
  I don't to prep anything because no ones ordering it right, but
• 56:55
  it kind of goes back when you're building a restaurant.
• 56:57
  How many steps does it take to make that dish literally?
• 57:00
  How many footsteps does it take to put it together?
• 57:02
  What's your longest ticket time? I remember syncing on one
• 57:06
  service because of a salad. It's purely because a salad had
• 57:09
  too many steps. To it touch.
• 57:10
  Points. Yeah, and it took too long to
• 57:12
  get it to a line, fix the salad some amount and everything
• 57:14
  sailed after that. Right.
• 57:16
  It's amazing how just one dish can just bog down the whole the
• 57:18
  entire line and it. Wasn't a cook.
• 57:19
  It wasn't a cook. It wasn't.
• 57:21
  I tried everything right? Why is this not working?
• 57:23
  But it was. And, and sometimes it's the chef
• 57:25
  needed to say, you know what, I know that's your dish, Just take
• 57:27
  it off, right? You're crashing that that's
• 57:29
  yours. Just take it.
• 57:29
  Off and restraints the hardest because you think I'm selling so
• 57:32
  much of this. I'm tired of it.
• 57:33
  Well, you know what? You need it.
• 57:34
  You probably need to let restraint walk away from it and
• 57:38
  know that the guests love it and and maybe raise it by a dollar.
• 57:42
  Chef, last question, if you had a Mount Rushmore of chefs for
• 57:46
  you, who would be on that Mount Rushmore of people of legacy
• 57:50
  chefs that you think, OK, these are the four greatest chefs to
• 57:53
  you? 4 greatest chefs.
• 57:59
  I always I had a similar question and it was always like
• 58:01
  if you were if you were running a restaurant, who would you want
• 58:03
  to be in the dining room? Like who's out there?
• 58:05
  My my, my Mount Rushmore of chefs would be Jeremiah Tower,
• 58:09
  probably Thomas Keller, Paulo Coos and the fourth to be
• 58:14
  unnamed yet. I'm not sure you know what it's
• 58:16
  going to be one there. I worked with a couple people in
• 58:19
  my career that I know that'll go farther than me.
• 58:22
  One's international, one's domestic, and I would want that
• 58:25
  for it because I know one of them is going to or both of them
• 58:28
  could be there could be 5. But but I but, but you think of
• 58:32
  somebody in your career that's that person's got it and they're
• 58:35
  going to go say you've given them all the tools to go even
• 58:38
  farther than you. There's two people in this world
• 58:41
  that I know will go farther than than me.
• 58:43
  Well, then this leads to another question and I, and I know I
• 58:47
  said that was the last question, but how do you recognize that
• 58:51
  talent? Because I'm, I'm the same way
• 58:52
  you, I've come across a certain number of people and you're
• 58:55
  like, they got it. What is it that you see in
• 58:57
  someone? You know that they they just
• 58:58
  have it. It almost gives you goosebumps.
• 59:02
  Like like, like you sense it. Like there's, there's a force
• 59:05
  there that you just need to steal the ship.
• 59:09
  You just need to guide them. You just need to be there for
• 59:11
  him. You need to kind of let them get
• 59:13
  out of their way, but but keep their guard rows on it and be
• 59:16
  there, be present for him. But it's it's a moment, you
• 59:19
  know, you know what, it doesn't happen that often, but that
• 59:23
  person is going to excel in anything they do.
• 59:26
  And it's going to always be food related and it's going to be
• 59:28
  either either leading a kitchen or you're writing a menu or
• 59:31
  something. But they have it.
• 59:32
  They know exactly what their flavors or tastes are.
• 59:35
  They're a prodigy. It's like someone picking up a
• 59:37
  guitar or playing piano when they're young age.
• 59:39
  They they just have it. Well, chef, where can people
• 59:41
  find you? I'm in San Antonio.
• 59:44
  I work at the Pearl and yeah, it's a great spot.
• 59:49
  Yeah. All right.
• 59:50
  Well, it's good seeing you. Yeah, same here.
• 59:51
  We gotta do it. Yeah.
• 59:52
  Yes, Chef, it was great. Thank you.
• 59:54
  Well, I hope you enjoyed that episode.
• 59:55
  If you want us for the show, go to chefspsa.com.
• 59:57
  From there, you'll get directed to support in all sorts of ways,
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