Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Building a start up financial planning company during lock down with Gregg Moss

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Building a start up financial planning company during lock down with Gregg Moss · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: And today's guest is Greg Moss.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Greg is a financial planner.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: He spent 20 years employed and then set up his own business, 11.2.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's an IFA, and today he talks about his transition from employed to self-employed.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: We also discussed the types of clients that he is now attracting by not being in an institution that avoids interacting with what I would consider the next generation of clients.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: So we discussed his client acquisition strategy.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: We also talk about things like restricted covenants and his thoughts around restricted covenants and what he did to ensure that when he set up his own business, that the clients followed him and there wasn't a drop in in income.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: We also talk about sort of personal branding, social media, coaches, and really what to do to attract the new generation of clients and how really we are in a start-up phase within the financial planning profession.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Why is that term not used enough?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: We're in a start-up phase.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's an exciting place to be.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great conversation with Greg.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoy it.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Hey Greg, thanks so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: How are you, my man?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really good, thanks, Sam.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, good to be here.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: How are you doing?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very good.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very good, thank you.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um you got obviously tagged in one of my posts by a mutual friend to say, get him on the podcast.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: He needs to get out of there.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: So here we are today recording one.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I can blame him if it goes spectacularly wrong and I make an absolute fool of myself.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but uh yeah, he's a no, he's a he's a good guy.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's a he's a non-financial planner that I spent a lot of time talking about um financial planning with uh Jay.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: So he's uh yeah, he's he's a good chap, and we talk about a lot of uh sad work-related stuff, and he thought it'd be quite good to get uh to get involved in this sort of thing.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: So um his background's law, isn't it?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's a legal engineer now.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: So he's uh yeah, I work with him at a at a law firm where I I practiced uh for a few years as a as a as a non-lawyer, as a financial planner.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we did a lot of work together on kind of client-related stuff, but yeah, he's he's he's one of those annoying guys that's just good at too many things, you know.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: So he's uh he's a kind of brilliant lawyer plus like a brilliant technologist.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: So he's kind of moved more into that.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: And he's uh he's writing code for a law firm, I think, uh at the moment.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: So he's moving into the tech side of law.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now I know him through his sister because I was at the same school as his sister and we had a bit of a relationship.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh interesting.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder if he remembers that.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: We need to perhaps if he's listening to this now, he'll he'll he'll remember.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Complicated subplot there, isn't there?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: We need a diagram to understand how this all fits together.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's like an EastEnders episode this podcast today.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna have to look at it.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was thinking more Holly Oaks, actually, but yeah, no, East Enders works too.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so name anyway, Oaks, isn't it?
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, Greg, thank you so much for joining me today, as I said.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, really great to have you on the podcast.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: I've obviously known you for quite some time.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: And when I very first got into recruitment, I placed you, didn't I?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, into a role with Towery uh about 11, 12, 12 years ago, I reckon.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I hate when I hate when you say things like that because it makes me realise how how long I've been knocking around the industry and how old I am.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: But uh yeah, yeah, time flies, doesn't it, when you're having fun.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um I remember it, yeah, remember it well.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: And uh obviously you would recommend my services to everybody you speak to, surely.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, everybody I meet, just you know, yeah.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: There we go.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'll stop recording now, just release that on on LinkedIn.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yeah.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, almost just cues at the post office, just people in the street, you know, whatever.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Just uh yeah, yeah, you need to speak to this guy.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, great stuff.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: So today, really, I want to get into the podcast because I know that you've gone through down, you've gone down through the employed route, if you like, within financial planning, and um you've stepped outside of employed and you've now set up your own business, which is 11.2.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I really always like to talk to financial planners that have gone alone basically and set up their own businesses because A, I think it's a really brave thing to do anyway, running your own business.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I always like to understand why, what got you to that decision, and um, you know, the experiences you've had so far in in like running your own practice, you know, is is it as you planned it?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: And being a business owner myself and fully aware of the multiple hats you have to wear when running a practice and running a business, it's um it's never as easy as you think it is.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm very keen to understand your experience.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very much an area of um recruitment that I specialise in, which is this self-employed area.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: I really enjoy it actually because there are so many levels to it.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's not as simple as placing somebody in an employed role, it's it's very, very different.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, just to kick things off though, uh Greg, what would be really fantastic is just could you give us an overview of just how you got into the profession and maybe a quick sort of brief uh overview of your um your career today?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: It would be fantastic.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh absolutely.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's uh well if a point of order, first of all, uh you you you say, you know, brave uh um going into self-employment.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: It took me 20 years to do it, right?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: So uh so I I'm absolutely a I feel like a bit of a chicken, you know.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: I sort of sort of um speak to some young guys who are just entering the industry and you know do a bit of mentoring.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, a lot of these guys are just bang up for going straight into self-employed roles and running running their own thing.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh yeah, it always makes me feel a little bit ashamed of myself for taking 20 years to take the plunge.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I got there in the end.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I mean, in terms of my my work history, um I yeah, I've been uh scarily, I've I've been around for almost exactly 20 years now.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: I I realised when I was I was working it out.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I started life uh in a national IFA, which I chose to be a down in Bath.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um I joined that very rare thing, um, uh a grad scheme there.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I kind of fell into it because I had absolutely to be absolutely no idea what what financial advice was.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Financial planning wasn't really a thing then because it's a very different sort of industry.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I thought, well, this sounds interesting.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I sort of remember reading the spec and thinking, you know, so lots of you know, helping people solve problems and um you know they made it sound sound interesting, so I was I was intrigued.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I was going for all sorts of jobs at that point, so I could have done something completely different.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um but uh but I joined there and I was I was glad I did.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: I got some really, really good training off some really good guys.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, one thing, you know, that that long ago, the industry was a completely different place, so you know, far less emphasis, I guess, on on technical knowledge and and training and you know, formal training, particularly through C PFS.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, some people uh had um, you know, advanced certificates and you know, sort of um pension transfer qualifications, but it was rare, you know, um they were kind of uh yeah, they they sort of stood out.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um and um obviously that's all changed now in in really good ways.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um but what they were really good at, and I think what what the industry was really good at generally then was um uh was all the soft skills training.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you know you join and you know you're you're hot housed a bit, I think, places like that.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: So you're kind of you know you straight into face-to-face client meetings very, very early in your kind of development, which is uh kind of terrifying, um, potentially dangerous, but also quite beneficial if it works out for you.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because you know, you just you you're just forced to learn all those soft skills quite uh quite quickly to sort of survive in that role.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think it is I think it's changed.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: I I think you know these days it takes a lot longer to kind of get in front of clients, and uh, I think some firms have gone kind of the other way, actually, you know, in terms of you know, you know, young, kind of ambitious graduates join, and you know, they they don't get that kind of experience for quite a long time.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: So there's it's probably probably a happy medium, but it was very much the the opposite back then.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I spent a few years um there um and and had a good time.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um I left to do something a bit different.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: I worked in in marketing agencies for a couple of years and did a master's in that and uh you know, I just wanted some more some more business qualifications, which have sort of helped me since um because it's all it's all relevant, but um I was lured back to to financial advice after a couple of years uh of that, and I've I've sort of I've I've stayed here ever since.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: So when you were you said you mentioned there sort of back in the day, you were sort of thrown into financial planning then.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: So not so much that academy approach or that power planner route into becoming a financial advisor.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was straight in here's some here's some clients get stuck into it.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Was this pre-RDR or just pre- yeah, you're you're you're you're deliberately trying to make me feel feel old now, but it's okay.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: I it's all I'm not gonna do.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, listen, we we agreed the other day.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still I'm still a young financial advisor.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh only because financial advisors are so old.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's all it's all relative.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um but but yeah, yeah, I so this this yeah, this was this was pre-RDR, way before before RDR.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: So um the the kind of qualification benchmarks were were much lower, you know, the the the um the fewer hurdles really.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, in fact, you know, my I remember, you know, it was uh you had to get through your FPC.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, in in in old money, I think it was three papers, wasn't it?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, sort of certificate level stuff.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you kind of got on with those very, very early.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd be there sort of sitting FPC one and two um within the first couple of weeks and you know, not really knowing what an ISA was, and you know, not long after that you're kind of qualified to go and see clients, deal with their kind of uh complex needs.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's um so um see so yeah, no, it this this was pretty RDR, but but you know, the thing about back then was you know that uh it wasn't comp it wasn't the wild west completely.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: There were still really, really good advisors that did all these papers because they wanted to, you know, um and they wanted to be to be good.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, you know, I I was very lucky to be, you know, to work under some some really, really good guys um back back in those days that that you know, sort of you know, cool.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that sort of cutting your teeth quite early on, though, you know, being thrown into the deep end, um it it taught you a thing or two about financial planning and financial advice because you mentioned you were at Chase DeVere.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Was that like in the because Chase DeVere used to well kind of one of the early adopters really of having um uh phone-based advisors as well?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, that's what we was that what you were doing.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, that's where I started.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that was that was kind of that was sort of the training ground, I guess.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we we we we advised, and it's interesting because we advised sort of solely over the phone and and email and and and stuff.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, it was kind of, I mean, they they used it then, I don't know how it operates now, but it was it was sort of you know a training ground for guys who joined the industry without much kind of knowledge of of things and learned the ropes, and then you got to you got you became a face-to-face advisor once you'd sort of proved yourself and you could, you know.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think within about a year I'd I'd I'd done that, and then I spent the rest of my time there kind of on the road as a face-to-face advisor.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, you look back and you think actually that was pretty forward thinking.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and um, I mean, a funny thing is, you know, bearing in mind that was that was all those decades ago.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, actually, you know, during lockdown, um, it's it served me well, you know, because you know, being having having to kind of do all your business uh via, well, we didn't have Zoom back then because it wasn't invented.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think the internet was, but yeah, um, I don't think there was such a thing as Zoom.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but but you know, just having to sort of take on new clients, you know, sort of purely via kind of phone and email and and entirely remotely.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's not new, you know, because I've I've done it since since since back then.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, you look back and you think actually it was quite a forward-thinking kind of way of of operating.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you learn some good skills then as well, don't you?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know it's amazing what you what you can do remotely.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I sort of tend to think now that you're actually quite small if you can get in front of of clients and have all the kind of non-verbal stuff, and you know, you obviously have much richer meetings if you're forced to not have all that sort of stuff, you have to work a bit harder, I think, to um to have good meetings.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: But no, absolutely.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I and I I'm sort of all for these telephone-based financial advice propositions because I mean you've got Tilney that that have got one.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know Chase DeVere is still kind of operating that space, and a few others that starting to grow these telephone-based propositions.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: And um you're absolutely right, it's a really good ground for someone to get into because you get to speak to, you get exposure and you get to speak to so many clients.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: And um, because you're phone-based, you've got that kind of uh supervisor with you at all time.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: So when you have a question or you can prepare for a call, you've got someone next to you or someone within the team who's probably done it before, and it's a lot quicker and easier to get you through the processes of of understanding the uh the process, if you like, of effective financial planning around a specific product type, perhaps, or a specific type of client that you're dealing with.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and also what I found with those telephone bases ones as well is that they were more willing to take somebody on that's got the level four qualification and perhaps some experience off of uh marketing or something like that, or coming from an account manager role, um and more inclined to really, really take somebody in.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: And what you find is they spend a couple of years in that zone, don't they?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then naturally progress into um a face-to-face financial planner.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd like to see more of those really, because I think that's a really great way to get more people into the profession and to give them that grounding.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because as you rightfully said, you know, administration to power planner to financial planner, that's your typical route.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it tends to be the typical route for anybody coming in who's not got any experience.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: So perhaps a grad, perhaps someone in the early stages of their of, you know, in the early part of their 20s, for example.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm not sort of poo-pooing that route at all, because I think the route itself lends uh a kind of uh cruel, you know, walk before you run type approach uh to financial planning.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it can also be a disadvantage, that kind of natural kind of progressive route to anybody that wants to step across from a profession where perhaps they might have been earning some considerable money, but now want to step into financial planning and they've got all the skills and all the attributes, but want to step straight into the role of financial planner.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps they've got really good clients, perhaps they've got a really good network of introducers already in place that they just want to leverage off of.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's where you've then got that barrier to entry that's happening, but it's getting kind of better, I suppose.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, St.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: James is placed and quilted with all these academies, but it's very kind of like that's the route, and that's the only route if you haven't got any actual experience of financial advice.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas um, I think if the only way this advisor gap is gonna get smaller is if firms are willing to take on people straight into financial advice positions that have got the skill sets and the attributes that are transferable.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, I like that I do like that telephone-based stuff.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you've had a good experience within within sort of financial planning.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: What's really interesting is that whilst you when you got into the profession, you thought, I'm gonna leave and I'm gonna go and do something completely different.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: So what why was that?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: What was the what was the reason for that?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I mean it's interesting.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: I I I guess like I suppose a lot of people who kind of go into financial advice roles, I fell into it.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't really know what a financial advisor was, you know, before you know, before I got my first job in it and for a for a while afterwards as well.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I kind of, you know, I had this sense that that I hadn't kind of come to it as a sort of positive decision almost.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, it was something that I wasn't quite clear about what the other options were.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I did a humanities degree, so you know, sort of, you know, not not it's some economics, but not all that relevant.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I was quite keen to um to get some some business qualifications as well, which you know sort of served me quite well since.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: So um I uh yeah, so I left there after after a few years just thinking I'd I'd try some other stuff and add some strings to my bow.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I did my um uh masters at Bristol Business School.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that was that was good.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: And um uh it was mainly uh a marketing-based qualification, so I kind of got interested in that and and spent a few years in in marketing agencies and I really enjoyed it actually.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was really good.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I guess what I missed, I missed all the kind of direct with client stuff, you know.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: So working in a marketing function, you know, you're working on some really interesting strategic stuff behind the scenes, but you're a few steps away from the actual end user.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: And um, what I think is, you know, I I kind of figured out in that role that I I'd really liked about financial advice was you know, you you are in front of people um um, you know, dealing with sort of wants and needs directly.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, but you can also use some of that sort of strategic marketing, um, kind of know-how um uh in your role as well, but but also you're sort of, you know, you're you're there at the I guess the sharp end, you know, to use to use the cliche.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I sort of find um I find I I enjoy it and I sort of realized when I wasn't doing it anymore that I missed it and that I that I had enjoyed it.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: So so yeah, I went back and um and I was glad I did, you know, because I I think uh and I was glad I took a break from it as well, because I think without that, I think I wouldn't have really had to think much about what I liked about it and why I wanted to do it, you know, and and you know there's nothing wrong with that.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: I know some people just fall into a career and they just keep doing it because it pays the bills and works okay for them, but I like to feel sort of you know driven.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: I like to feel like I know why I'm doing something and what the point of it is, you know, and why it um, you know, why why why it sort of uh fits in with how I want to to um you know to design it.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: When you've been so used to a client-facing role and a relationship building role, you kind of when that's the only thing that you ever know.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's like when I was younger, I did sales and it was like the only thing I ever knew.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: I know I bossed out of school, and the only thing you could really go and do was work in sales.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: I used to knock on people's doors at like 17 years old, trying to get them to change over their their their um electrical providers.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: I you know, I cut my teeth in some really sort of salesy type positions.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I always had a negative, yeah, I had a really negative view, I guess, of what sales was.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was cold cooling, it was horrible, you know.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I and I kind of like um stepped away from that and then moved into like customer service.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I loved customer service because it's that real customer experience, enhancing the customer experience, solving problems, you know, understanding what their their worries were, their concerns, and really kind of solving the problem, but also being that balance between, you know, you're being your expectations are too high or your your your your thought process is completely out of whack.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, you need to look at it from this perspective.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I think customer service, for example, was a really um interesting area to get into because it showed me the other side of sales, you know, sales and customer service.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then I worked in an area which was very process driven and and the administration and managing a team around that, and then you could see them marrying it all together.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I think sometimes you have to kind of uh your first what you think is you the only thing you know, you have to step outside of it and learn some other skills or see things from another perspective to see what part you actually really like.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: And like you, I really enjoy relationships.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I like to build a relationship with somebody, I like to understand their ups, their downs, what makes them tick, and try to solve a problem for them.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's very much, isn't it, what financial planning is now.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's very relationship-driven.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, you've got that marketing experience.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: Touching on that, do you think there's lots of transferable skills from marketing that work incredibly well within the financial planning profession?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I do, um, actually, you know, and I I think um I think a lot of it is is is to do with psychology, you know.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think you know, it's it's just a it's just a question of of the sort of scale, you know.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think when you're trying to sort of run a marketing campaign and figure out um, you know, a marketing strategy for for a business, you're you're you're sort of thinking about you know the the end user experience and just trying to multiply that across people and and uh come up with a a way that works.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you know, in in your dealings with individual clients as an advisor or as you know, as any other professional, you're you're trying to solve those individual problems and see where, and I think also when you're sort of you know, when you're new business focused and you're sort of pitching for new um stuff, which you know I've I've tended to be when I was employed and I still am now as a self-employed guy, um, you're you're always sort of having to think about you know where the value is for these clients, right?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so you know, because you're always having these conversations where they're they're they're trying to figure out whether to engage you and there's a cost for for that, um, but but there's also you know you're delivering value for that cost.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and I think particularly in financial advice, uh people seem to grapple with that more.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm not sure, I'm not sure why, but um, you know, I I guess because you've got the DIY route, which perhaps you maybe don't have, so it which I think is is fine, you know, I've got all these different approaches that coexist.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I'm I'm quite used to having these conversations with people, just very honestly and transparently about okay, well, here are the different things you can do.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um and if you want to go with us, here's where we think we can deliver value for you for our costs.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, it all comes down to marketing, doesn't it?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's like that, you know, that that that perception of value and you know, you how you as a business demonstrate before you've actually engaged the client that you're able to add that value and then you know and keep demonstrating it.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you know, I think it's spot on, you know, I think I think it's relevant.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: And and I guess now as a um, you know, as a business owner, like you said earlier, you've got all these hats, haven't you?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, I'm I'm doing the marketing um in a sort of more formal sense as as well as the kind of direct with client stuff and the advice so I can see how it all fits together.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, cool.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, leading up to that then, so obviously you had a career, you've you've had a good, you know, a career where you worked in financial planning, you then left, did marketing, got your head around that, decided you want to go back to financial planning and financial advice, back into an employed area, worked your way through there, but then you came to a point, you came to a decision where you thought, I don't want to work for anybody else anymore.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: How did you come to the decision that you wanted to go self employed?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it yeah, it took me a while, I I guess.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: I wish I'd done it earlier in in a lot of ways, but then you know, um, it's um I'm I'm glad I got I'm glad I'm glad I got here in the end.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, for for me it was it was a sort of gradual thing, you know.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've been very Lucky to work for some really great firms with some really, really great people over the years.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and I was I was I was happy in a lot of those roles.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I think as I sort of developed and and kind of acquired more experience and started to think a bit more um generally about you know how to um how how to do the job and and and you know all the stuff that goes around the job as well and how that should be done.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think what I started to realize that I was kind of in in these these big firms um that are you know there's a lot of established ways of doing things, a lot of legacy issues, and actually a lot of the problems out there in the industry and a lot of the the things I was interested in looking at at how to solve uh they evolved very quickly, and and um I think they need new approaches to to deal with them.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And and what I sort of started to realize gradually was that it's actually very hard to respond to those um quickly enough and in the right way and flexibly enough in in a big firm where you're just one voice and there's all this other stuff to fight against, which often doesn't make sense.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know what it's like in big firms, you know, there's a process and uh everyone knows it's not the right process, but Dave came up with it and he'll be really offended if you change the process.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: So um it's uh so you know, which is which is fine, you know, that that's that's all part of the rich tapestry of working for big organizations.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, when I started to kind of think about actually, you know, what what do I want to do, what what kind of really gets me out of bed in the mornings, and it's it's this kind of interesting emerging areas of advice, like how do you close the advice gap, you know, broaden the market for financial advice to to younger people, to people who might not ordinarily engage a financial advisor who look different from your typical client of a financial advice firm, things like EST investing, you know, it's all very, you know, requires, I think, quite a lot of flexibility of thought around how it fits in with your investment proposition and all of that stuff.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: And what I was kind of realizing is that in order to really do a proper job of tackling these, you just need to be quite nimble and you need to be quite, you know, able to be very forward-thinking.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and it's a heck of a lot easier when you're in a you know your own small organization where you can you can control the direction of travel a lot more easily.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that's what sort of finally pushed me into the decision to do it was just, I guess, wanting to make an impact in some of those areas that I was getting more interested in and feeling like I was, I guess, you know, limited by my ability to sort of to make a good go of it elsewhere.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think, yeah, spot on.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think a lot of people find that in the traditional financial planning firms, um, especially where they have the processes in place that have been there for years, you know, the appetite to perhaps change or develop the even the clients that you're actually targeting and what you're going after, and having the foresight to see that these individuals are going to need financial planning.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um perhaps we need to change our approach to how we communicate, um, or even things, simple things like adopting a really interesting or engaging digital marketing strategy, going after certain clients that you wouldn't typically consider would be a client of that firm.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um as a lot of people that sit in there seeing the changes that are happening around them and financial planning with a lot of firms is just stagnating, you know, their whole kind of ethos, their outlook, you know, even their branding, it's just so dated, you know, it's like something from the bloody 80s.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you think to yourself, how are you even winning clients?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you then you get to the crux of it that you know, a lot of these people are a lot older, you know, and and this is me being ageist here, but the average age of a financial advisor is 50, 60 years old, their clients are pretty damn old, they're not after new clients as such, you know.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: They're they are within that wealth management space where they're looking after people that have got money, you know, minimum 50k invested in assets, and they're not too concerned about the next gen.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Why should they be when their business model isn't about that?
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it leaves a great gap, as we rightfully have pointed out, the advice gap, you know, this great big gap of individuals, clients that are out there that need servicing via financial planner.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: But hey, they need to find that financial planner, and the way they do it is through searching on Google, Instagram, TikTok.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was chatting to a financial planner today about TikTok.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, there are all these different platforms when you can get your message across and win that client through relationships.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: And the next gen, not even the next gen, our generation, like you and I are both like, I'm 40 this year.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we we try before we buy, we look online, we look at a company before we even make a decision to engage with that company.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're doing a beauty parade ourselves on our mobile phones on the way to work, yeah.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: We're building, we're building trust and we're building relationships with people before we even pick the phone up.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I think if you're not doing that within financial planning, you're being left behind.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the best ways you can do that is to work on your personal brand and be a master of your own destiny and set up your own company because you choose the direction of where it goes.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find as well that do you know what I love about being a business owner?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's recruitment, but I just love the fact that I can do what I want.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's good, isn't it?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have to tell anybody.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, I'm I sometimes it's it's hard because you don't have anybody patting you on the back and you don't have anybody sort of you know almost guiding you or coaching you to where you need to go.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it can be quite difficult sometimes and quite lonely.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: But there is something beautiful about getting up in the morning and you don't have to answer to anybody except the wife.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I always, always that have you.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: And absolutely, absolutely.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: I I I couldn't agree more.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what, I bet I bet you do get up, and I bet I bet I bet you put a you know a lot of hours in because it it's it's weird, isn't it?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is what I've found is that in the last because about a year we've been up and running.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I've I you know it's been the you know the probably the hardest working year that that that I've I've got in my not that you know, not that I didn't work hard before, I hasten to add, but but you know, I I I guess you have that secret fear, don't you, that when you set up on your own and nobody's sort of you know measuring your output and telling you what to do, that I don't know, you know, maybe maybe you won't do it.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know, I guess, do you in advance?
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I suppose you don't know what that that kind of what your self-motivation looks like in that completely different environment.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: But but no, absolutely, I'm sure it's the same for you.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I um I'm more energized and motivated.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you sort of think why?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's because I've got control over some of those things that I previously didn't, you know.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I have the ability to now, you know, to try and speak as a business with with a with a tone of voice that appeals to you know some of these investors, these potential clients that are just put off by all the trappings of of the traditional advice industry.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I'm really passionate about that, you know.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's really it's really great.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: And also I've got this direct line to the clients now, you know, I can I can change process processes for them, you know, I can listen to to their concerns about what they don't like about things we've done for them for 10 years at different firms and and make changes.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and of course it's been a year where where clients have had a lot of you know a lot of need for support.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I've spent a lot of time kind of um having those conversations with them.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's massively motivating, isn't it?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, you want to do it just because not because somebody's sending a TCF questionnaire to a client to make sure that they're happy, or or you know, because you you know you want referrals off them or you want to hang on to their business because you've got targets to hit, you know, you do it because you know they're you you've looked after them for a long time and they're great guys and you want to help them carry on being successful.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um you want them it's not so much you want them to like you, but you do, I guess.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: You but you want them to trust you and you want them to I'm really needy as well, absolutely.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, aren't we all?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we do.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't it wasn't hung enough as a child, was there?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um by ways, mine, mine, mine.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, pretty much, yeah.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Pretty much why people just run their own businesses, control freaks, I think.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Needy control freaks, I think that's that's it, isn't it?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Pretty much, yeah.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: I've definitely gone through that stage.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that doesn't when you grow a business and you start employing people, and then that's the weird one, right?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was when you start growing a business, employing people, then you expect people to do what you do.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, you can't expect, you know, people are people, they're their own, they think the way they want to think.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: You can guide them and coach them.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: But if you lack the ability to do that, like I had, I was a nightmare for years.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: I was just like, Why are they doing it that way?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: Why are they doing it they're gonna do it my way?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it did me absolutely no favors.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: And the day I let go and just sort of said, Well, you do what you want, and as long as within the common as long as it's within the framework of this, you you treat it like your own business.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: The day I did that, oh my god, the weight off my shoulders.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was just like, Oh, right, actually, this is okay, you know.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't need to know the ins and outs of what you're doing and be worried about wrecking my reputation because you're not a dipstick and I don't hire dipsticks anymore.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, it's it's it's true, isn't it?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think if you're kind of very you're exacting about you what you want and you want kind of real excellence in the firm, then it's it's quite a hard thing to, you know, I can see that we're very small now, but as we grow, you know, making sure that people kind of get that, and and perhaps there'll be people who don't get it to the same degree that you do.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: And um, it's um no, it it's tough, but at the same time, I really, really want to be, you know, a proper uh a delegator, you know, give people because I've I've been on the other side of it as an employee, and I don't want to stifle people.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: I want them to feel like they can, you know, really bring their A game and work on you know areas of work that kind of get them really energized.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's one of the that is one of the positives about being employed for so long, is that you do have that experience being on the other fence, the other side.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think when people jump straight into self-employment and run their business, they want to do it, that's where it becomes tricky because you haven't dedicated, you haven't dealt, you haven't spent enough time with other employees and maybe managed within that space as well.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there's certain skill sets you lack when you become a lone wolf too early on.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think that's the beauty of going into these corporate environments.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you bring somebody out of like an HSBC who's become like a manager or whatever, um, and they go in and set their own firm up, yeah, it's an absolute baptism of fire because they've gone down a bank assurance route into IFA or something like that, and they go that's completely different, but they have so many skills that they've learned from the employed background um that are so transferable that set them up up against somebody who's just jumped two footed into being self-employed.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: So um so when you set up, so when you made the decision to be going become self-employed, how did you go about doing it then?
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: So if someone's listening to this, they're employed at the moment, what did you do?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Did you pick up the phone to a recruitment consultant?
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Did you do some do you did you do some research online?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because as a financial uh planner going self-employed, there are routes, aren't there?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: You can be um directly authorized, you can be a registered individual, you could be an appointed representative, you could join a national or a network or um you can outsource compliance only.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: So what did you do then?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: What was your sort of strategy when you decided, right, I'm going self-employed.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: What was your first step?
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's hard, isn't it?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: You're right.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: There are so many ways to do it.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you sort of realize when you kind of when you start doing your research, uh, you know, I guess how how little you know is somebody who's just been really looked after uh in an employed role.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Everything's just sort of happened around you.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like actually, this is this is a whole other world out there.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I mean, you know, pretty much the you know, we looked at all the the various options that that you kind of you describe and talk to to mates who've who've done it before and had some really helpful conversations with some other people, you know, that that that were very good in that kind of uncertain zone where we weren't, you know, we knew we wanted to do it, but weren't sure how.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um and the way that we've approached it is we're um we're with a network, so we're with sense, um, and we're we're very happy with that.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it it was a bit of a lot of due diligence actually on, you know, I think we we realized that's certainly an easier route, less risky route for getting kind of up and running um uh as a firm because you know you sort of sub out all of your key compliance and they just take care of all that really terrifying stuff that you know potentially keeps you up at night.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we're we're you know super low risk as well.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we want to do things sort of in the the the right way and be told how to do it the right way.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we knew we needed that really robust compliance input from somewhere.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I guess you could go directly authorise and buy in that compliance function in some form, but I felt like you know, having that kind of wrapper of a you know being an AR firm and a good network um around you um gave us a lot of comfort and and they've been great guys, you know.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not just compliance stuff, you know, a lot of the practice management, um of course they they you know they see good practice across a lot of firms.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, this there's been some really good input around investment proposition stuff and you know, um our regulatory documents and all those bits and pieces that we we were clueless about.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um so uh so yeah, we're we're we're with sensor that works really well.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the reason it works, it works well from our perspective is that um they're they're very, very good at all the compliance stuff that you know it's it gives us comfort to be able to sort of know is is is is in hand.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, very flexible about kind of practice level stuff, um, you know, as long as they're kind of happy that you're involving them with the right stuff at the right times, um, you know, you're you're you're sort of pretty free in terms of what markets you're interested in and stuff like that, which is you know important based on what we were talking about earlier about having the flexibility to to try and you know go after types of client than than you might in a traditional firm.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and they're they're big on you know independence as well.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I've always almost always worked as a as an IFA um with a sort of whole and market remit.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of important to hang on to that.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: I do think that's an important thing to to keep.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that was that was a big thing as well.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: So so yeah, we're we're an AR firm of theirs.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but in terms of you know our marketing strategy and and and our clients and what they look like, um, I don't I'm not sure that would look particularly different different if we'd gone the directly authorised route, because you know, they were very clear about the bits that they do.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: As you sort of said, you know, when you start to look at your options, going one of the one of the things I always say to somebody is look, you know, you need to build your own brand because it's your baby and you want to be able to position yourself and your proposition you know the way you want to.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: But going down the RI route as a registered individual, or even some, yeah, mainly as a registered individual, you will be taking on somebody else's branding, and you don't really have any control over that.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I think with the dawn of digital marketing and social media and the way it's going forward, is that you need to be in control of your brand.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's your own personal brand, but it's the branding of your company as well.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you need to be able to change it as and when and put content out as and when that reflects the type of clients and market that you're looking to tap into.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: And when you are reliant upon another firm, it's very difficult to do that, self-employed or employed, you know.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where a lot of the frustrations come.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, late, you know, and that is within financial planning, there are a lot of firms that don't really engage with digital marketing at all or social media.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I can see the cut the guys who are working in those firms feeling very um stifled.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: It was only recently that St.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: James's Place even let their partners um, you know, do their own marketing and and work on their personal brands.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember speaking to loads of those guys and they were stifled, you know, because they were limiting the availability of how to get themselves out there.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, AR is perfect, isn't it?
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: If someone looks after all your compliance, you might be able to tap into a bit of their administration power planner support.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Not only that, but they've got experience of helping other firms and um can explain and take away a lot of the fears and worries and concerns that you might have.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: And compliance, I speak to directly authorised firms that are quite small and adamant they wanted to go directly authorised.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, all the Gabriel reports, all the stuff that you've got to do, it keeps you, does keep you up at night.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you need somebody in your business is purely 100% focused on compliance.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think you can be a two-man band or a one, you know, two-person, one-person company directly authorized without sweating a lot, you know.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's a huge, huge cost of time and money that that that's associated to it.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: So fair play to you, the route that you've gone down.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: Second time I've had someone on from Sense Network, I get a lot of um positive vibes from um uh Sense Sense um Sense Network, isn't it?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: It is Sense, because you've got Sense Investments as well.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: Sense Network.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's very positive.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, let's talk about your company you set up then.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: So 11.2, yeah?
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is your new firm.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: So who is in it?
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: Is it just yourself or is there anybody else?
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh myself and my co-director, uh Kate Island, who's uh she's a power planner.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: So work with her in uh previous roles.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, as an advice team, we've um you know, we've had that kind of uh consistency for clients that we've looked after for the last the last few years, which is which is great.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh yeah, we've got some and we're sort of in a bit of a recruitment phase at the moment.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got some probably yeah, it's sort of TBC um details, but we're we're growth oriented, so you know, we're effectively we're one advice team uh at the moment, um, but we're looking to to add advice teams, you know, with appropriate support and and add to advisor numbers um this year.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: So um so so yeah, that's that's our kind of, I guess our next phase of things.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: 2020 was about getting foundations right, you know.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: So just wanted to um you know get the firm set up properly, not rush that kind of that initial building phase, you know, get processes right, get all the sort of tech stack right, um, you know, figure out how how best to do things with you know with with sense and uh um make sure all of the kind of existing client following was all sort of looked after properly and didn't feel sort of left behind by this process.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: So um, but that's kind of where we've been so far, and we we're coming out of that phase into a um into a new one, I think, where you know we're looking a little bit more outside our you know, the the the firm and looking at kind of growth and cooling.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: What a great year, 2020, for you to uh set up.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we I think we I think we got authorized in February, so you know, pretty much immediately into like lockdown one.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh feels like about a hundred years ago.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um but uh yeah, I see I was speaking to Jeff about this the other day, and uh, you know, the great thing about that is I can bore people for the rest of my life about the fact that I set a business up in a pandemic.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, I say yeah.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: I say exactly the same.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: I said I I got in I got into this in um the credit crunch.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, okay, yeah.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think in the credit crunch, financial services in the credit, I'm still here.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's it is a great story, actually.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's not exact not exactly a pandemic though, is it, Sam?
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's uh just a mere banking crisis, and uh I set up the financial plan of life during the pandemic.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: Did you?
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh okay.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well you got me there then.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm on the setting up another recruitment company.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, okay, yeah, yeah.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: You are you win, you win.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'll tell you what, actually, I joined Chase of it uh around about the time of the tech uh bubble collapse.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I did, yeah.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it's too much top track with the maniac.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know it is, isn't it?
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I was yeah, it wasn't yeah, I wasn't taking business risk at that point.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um but but uh uh it's helpful to to have been through a few of these.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, genuinely, you know, to to you know you get the more you sort of you see see off these these kind of weird difficult periods.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: I do think it's good because you just you you get to you know you get to set your set your benchmark appropriately, don't learn, don't you?
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: And you kind of, you know, and you you know what sort of you know what things look like in these sort of slightly distressed circumstances, and I think it helps your outlook kind of later on.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a bit like with clients, isn't it?
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like I always feel a bit wary of these clients who invest kind of right in the sort of you know, in the trough of the market and they and they get nothing but growth for like the first sort of you know five, six, whatever years.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um I do worry about you know what where that sort of you know how how that sets them up for the inevitable bear market you're gonna get at some point, you know, because you know, I think in a way, you know, you'll you're spoiled as a client in a funny kind of way if you have um a bit of a rocky time in the markets relatively early on because you see what it looks like, you sort of stare it in the face and you come through it, you know, inevitably with with you know with good advice.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and and you know, you always kind of remember that, but you'll also kind of always remember that that was temporary and that that you know markets grew through it and stuff.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a little bit the same with business issues, isn't it?
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: If you've kind of been through a tough period, but actually everything's kind of worked and you know you've kind of got through it as a team and come out the other side.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um this is what I'm telling myself anyway.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: Give me another, give me another month of like lockdown free, and I'll I'll change my mind about all of this.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's probably just because it's Friday as well, actually.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: If you'd asked me all of this yesterday, I had a bit of it, really morose.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of afternoon beers, yeah.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so one of the things I would like to talk to you about that comes up a lot with self-employed when people go employed to self-employed is around restricted covenants.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, people spend a long time in an employed position and build very strong relationships, um, whether they be introducers, whether they be clients, uh, very much they become friends.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, restricted covenants, non-dealing clause, non-solicitation clause.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we sign ourselves away, don't we, when we're employed.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: So when you move from an employee background, what was your sort of strategy for year one?
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because you've got to pay the bills, you've got to bring some client money in.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you do.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what was your, you know, I'm not asking you here to divulge if you've broken any restricted covenants or anything like that.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: Were you wearing a wire?
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'll I'll divulge anything.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: This is something that people are nervous and worried about, you know.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, what was your experience about client acquisition within the first year, old and new?
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, sure.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, I we're always ultra cautious about stuff like that, you know, and it it's just it's just one of those things, isn't there, where you know, that that sort of stuff can ruin your life.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we've always sort of you know trodden very carefully with with all of that, that type of stuff.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: I was very lucky, actually, because you know, my um uh for for the actually for the first time in my career, um, in the last employed role that I had before this, I I insisted on um existing clients being carved out of restrictions.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: And and I would absolutely recommend.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I it it's one of those things, you know, you should.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely do.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: If you're an advisor with a client following, and some of those will be friends and relatives and stuff, and you know, and you have the right to take those clients on.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I think.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know that employers probably say, well, you're being, you know, our budgeting is is is kind of geared around the fact that you've got a client following.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: I really like that approach to employing people anyway.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: I just think why should you come in and be cost neutral straight away as a as an employee?
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: But um I I guess that's another, that's another thing.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um I th I think so I so I I think I would, you know, I I wished I wished I'd done it before because I was put in difficult positions with restrictions, like a lot of advisors have been, you know, where you know you build these really, really strong relationships with clients.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: They, you know, bless them, they they they follow you, um, and then they're caught by your general restrictions because you've happened to change employees.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone knows full well that that you know the relationship primarily is with you, and clients, you know, probably see their best chance of continuity with you.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but but you know, they'll insist on keeping them there for that period.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it can be an awful, awful customer experience, I think, you know, because often the thing about that is, you know, I guess in a way, if that happens and clients are getting cruel all over because they want to, you know, the firm wants to retain their business, then it's kind of fair enough because at least they'll be getting some degree of of service.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh but but often what happens is they're parked, you know, they'll there'll be clients who just get, you know, the the firm will be very threatening about about the enforcement of these covenants, but clients don't get a phone call for six months or 12 months.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I've I've seen this happen, and that's just a really crap position to put somebody in, you know, not the advisor, the the client, because they're not getting serviced properly, and potentially there's not the um, you know, because the advisor might have left, their team might have left, there might not be the um the the um the ability to to service those clients properly.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: So so I think that's the big issue is actually it's not just between an advisor and a firm.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: The clients get caught up in it and they can have a really crap experience that they never signed up for.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I I do also think from an advisor's perspective, I think a lot of advisors, you know, it's it's not uh it's not an even sort of contest when it comes to those discussions about covenants.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: So they'll you know, they'll be speaking to a new firm, and you know, of course, at that point, you know, you're eager to say the right things, aren't you?
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody loves each other when you're in the process of of joining a firm.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a bit like a prenup, you know, it's a sort of rowbattle back and say, actually, let's talk about what happens if I leave.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I know I haven't joined yet, but um, it's not easy to have that conversation, you know, it it's you should definitely, and I would say this to advisors you've got a client following, um, absolutely should have that awkward conversation because it's your right to have it.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: And if a firm has a problem with that, you know, then that's potentially not the right firm to join.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's hard to do, um, but but I think that puts you in a in a different position then because you don't have that kind of falling in space feeling for six or twelve months where you just don't have any of that income, but you've got clients who are perfectly happy to pay you that you just can't get hold of yet.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh and which I think is is is the norm.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm I guess I'm very spoilt really because I didn't have to go through that because I was able to, you know, there was an innovation process, clients moved over.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: So there was a few months, I guess, of getting authorized and set up and getting clients over.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I did have that kind of you know, income goes from X to zero for two, three months.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess we had staff costs as well because I wanted to make sure that there was no sort of gap in income for um for the rest of the team.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: So so that got kind of funded along with the setup costs.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it was scary.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, uh, but but the whole time I knew that it wasn't half as scary as it would be if we weren't already in the process of migrating clients and we couldn't even start that for you know X months.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so yeah, it's an interesting area though, isn't it, Covenants?
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, as an employer, obviously I've got a slightly different well, no, I don't have a different view on it, but I can sort of see it from the other side a bit.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's very difficult to hold, it's very difficult to hold up in court, isn't it?
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh a restricted covenant because you're almost sort of incringing on some in somebody's human rights as to who they can and who they should and shouldn't work with.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: You you know, a company will say, well, there are clients.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, you don't own the relationship, it's the relationship where the client the client has the relationship with who the client wants to have a relationship with.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now, it's not even to say that that individual will actually join the financial advisor who sets up his own or her own business anyway, because perhaps they like the company that they do business with.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a bit like, you know, if someone's at Coots, for example, you know, they love the bank card, they love the pen and checkbook, you know, they love the Coots fill, their mates are at Coots and all that.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if the private banker leaves and sets up another company called, I don't know, Dave's IFA, what make, you know, they might not even for 10 years, but we're not coots though, Dave, are you?
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: Dave's IFA.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you've you've hit the nail on the head there.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think the thing about restrictions of that sort is that I think it's it's weak, you know.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think really if you're a confident business and you're confident that the client buys your business and your brand and your people, um, and their relationship isn't just with one individual, then you don't need covenants, right?
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, if a guy walks out the door, they're not going to take their client back because um there's other stuff worth hanging around for.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think the fact that advisors are able to do that, I mean, it's testament to probably those advisors and their their relationships with their clients, but but also I think it's a bit damning in terms of of the firms themselves.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it it, you know, like you said earlier, you know, the kind of the traditional brands in in financial advice market, particularly the bigger ones, why don't they have loyalty?
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why do advisors leave and take clients with them?
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's it's not it's nothing to do with what's in those contractual terms, it's uh it's to do with you know what what what they've done or or haven't done to build their brand and um convince the client that they as an organization are are the thing that's worth staying with.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, I think you know, I'm I'm so as an employer now in a you know firm principle, I'm trying so hard not to uh to to change my mind about things.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, it's you know, I I I like the fact so as we recruit advisors, for example, you know, my my view right now, which is subject to subject to change, um, is um that you know, I really don't I don't want to get into that.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I I want to make sure that advisors um you know uh are you know they have a right to to continue to look after their clients that that might happen to follow them if they decide that they want to do something else.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: And the way I see it is it the onus is on us to make those advisors so happy um working within in the structure that we provide for them that they won't even think about leaving and and then the clients aren't at slight risk.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly right.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, without a shadow of a doubt, people don't leave, people don't yeah.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: So the motivator for somebody wanting to go off on their own is they like to have their own business.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I think running a business, employing people or to even taking people on a self-employed basis, you have to make sure that the person that joins culturally fits your business.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: So they're there are a stage of their life where they don't want to think about the marketing side, they don't want to feel feel like the branding side.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: All they want to do is align themselves with the right culture and trust that the employer or the person who runs the business, the owner, has a good head on their shoulders and a good vision that they can buy into and they can think I can stay here, I feel comfortable and confident.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't mind if I'm self-employed paying 40% away or 30% away, knowing that I'm gonna get looked after in multiple areas.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: So the thought of them leaving anyway becomes less because they're comfortable and then and it's a bit like financial planning, if their lifestyle matches their job, then there's a good trade-off and a good balance.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you expect someone to work in 12-hour days for a 30 grand basic salary and they're on the phone smashing new business all day, but doing none of the relationship building, they're going to get bored, shit lit, and leave, you know.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: So culturally, as a business owner, and this is the best thing for you, it's just to make sure that when you interview those people and you sit down with them, it's just to really dig deep as to where do they see themselves in the next five to 10 years because you'll very easily be able to pick up someone's ambition or sort of um their um uh uh what's it called, you know, when they might want to set up their own their entrepreneurial side, you know.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: And those people are valuable to your business because they because you think, God, you know, if I take that person on now, that's a whole different that guy's got so much drive, he just wants to be part of something, but he doesn't have the confidence right now to set up on his own.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: So bring them in underneath your arm, you could treat them like an individual and an equal, and then all of a sudden you've got a brand new, brand new side of your business and a great partner, not employees.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's how you view those people who come into your practice as well.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: And um, don't treat them like employees, anybody like employees, they should be part of your business.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how I qualify people these days.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: What value add can you bring to my company and where are you going to be in the next five to ten?
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: If someone's if I can feel that they're gonna scoot out the back door at any opportunity, then it's just not cultural fit, it's not fit for me, you know?
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely, absolutely.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's good intel, and and you know, that that's kind of my view on it.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, I I'd say it wasn't inevitable that I would end up working for myself, you know, because you know, hence why I was I was employed for so long.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, I was always seeking that that kind of role where you know had that degree of of ability to be entrepreneurial, to to be creative in the way that you went about getting your business and stuff like that.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I think firms struggled to provide that.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to be different as a firm.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I want to you know bring people in who've got these great ideas, but but they're they're not the lone wolf type, you know, they don't want to go and do it on their own.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: If if they do, then that's fine, you know, there's there's options for them.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, I'm I mean, somebody that we're speaking to at the moment, for example, you know, it's very, very, really, really good advisor, very interested in in getting more into the kind of financial coaching side of things, which things which you you you alluded to.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it's not something I'm I guess I I I touch on it in aspects of my work, but as a sort of as an area of business, it's not something I'm big on.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so my thinking is if if somebody, you know, that's an example, but if somebody can come in with something like that that they know a lot more about than me and they're they they're much more energized about, if if you can give them uh enough control over that that area of the business and you know, kind of collaborate on where the connections are between that and other areas of the business, then um that could be a really, really great hire.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: And and actually if that person you know is happy to do that within the structure that you've built and and you make it work for them in terms of of reward and and job satisfaction, then then that could be a really, really great end result for everybody.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I think that's a brilliant idea.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think you taking on a financial coach, if you can bring somebody in who adopts the position of coach, um financial coach to clients, not only are they not only are they almost taking should hopefully be taken on the whole social media side as well.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um they are pushing and promoting your brand, getting themselves out there and pulling new clients in.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: If you look at the likes of Claro Money, for example, which is a brand new sort of fintech company, their whole focus is on having coaches, financial coaches.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: And those coaches go out through social media, um, pull people in, and in those individuals come in via an app, they can do stuff themselves.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: But when they need financial planning, it gets handed over to a financial planner, and there's so much that can be done via the coach that is value add as well.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know that the coach, you know, lots of coaches now um, you know, are doing financial reviews for people.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's not full financial planning, and I'm investing all your money, it's just like financial reviews, and you can product size that, you know, and YouTube is a powerful platform for that, you know, because there's so much that coach can talk about, and YouTube's got such a huge reach.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's in the financial planning space for coaching, it's it's it's not that competitive at the moment.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I had Peter Komalafe on the website, sorry, on the on the podcast, and his background was um is coaching, you know, the conversation of money.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: He's running the podcast, he's running the YouTube channel, all things that you don't have to think about.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, bring somebody in to do that.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_00: I just think it's an absolute winner in an early start, an early stage of a business, because it's just marketing as well, isn't it?
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's getting yourself out there.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, absolutely, and it is trying to try to reclaim that space, I think, where you know people are are kind of giving that that that coaching.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: I uh, you know, that that really should be something that um advice firms are trying to bring in-house and and link up with the regulated advice side of things.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, it's not happening, is it?
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: Not not well, it is, but not um not enough, probably.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you look at the the real thought leaders out there around money, you know, and it's it's it's it's your kind of it's your Twitter guys, isn't it?
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's your kind of um, you know, you're personalities, it's the guys that's like a TV personality almost, isn't it?
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's yeah, it's somebody out there that can do bite-sized, informative um information, but they're comfortable and they not only that, they enjoy being on camera.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, they enjoy putting themselves out there.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're trying to do the financial planning side of your job and you're thinking, right, I've got to now do the marketing, you don't have enough time in the day.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's as simple as that.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm realizing that in what I do, it's bloody hard, you know.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's very, very hard.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, I guess great.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a great hire, that isn't it.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds good, excellent.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I think I think it's good.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, I sort of I want to, I don't want to lose that at that thing where, you know, I'm probably still thinking from you know both sides of the fence, really.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still sort of thinking about, you know, okay, well, I'm an employer and I want this from this situation, but but also, you know, if I was that employee, I, you know, I I don't want to I don't want to lose that, you know, because I've I've been you know employee for a long time and I I've sort of thought uh you know you see things in a particular way, and sometimes you look at the guys running the businesses and you think, why don't they get that?
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why don't they why don't they know how I feel about this?
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if they just did that little extra thing, then I'd feel so pumped.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'd go and just run through walls for that, you know, but they a lot of these time, a lot of the time these things get kind of missed because of the disconnect.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because it's probably because of what you say, you know, they've been employers for a very long time, um, and they just think about things in a in a different way.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think if you can try and, you know, to some degree occupy sort of both both sides in your thinking, um, then it should all just join up better, shouldn't it?
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: So um that's it's a challenge, I guess.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, 100%.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about clients and in client acquisition because it's not all um novato clients.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's very nice if you can novate some clients when you can't enjoy it.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but a big part of it also is is new business, and you get the opportunity, as you alluded to in the beginning of this call, to start targeting um specific niches of clients that you wouldn't normally target.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_00: So could you give an example of the typical or some of the more abstract clients that you're now giving financial advice to?
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, for sure.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: I th I think I mean, sort of in terms of I thought I think underserved bits of of the market.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's there's a few, you know, and I think they sort of do the rounds.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think like, you know, people who own businesses tend to not not get involved with financial advisors until potentially quite late in the process.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: And we've got some, you know, some good clients who are owner managers and they're good referers.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we we do great work for them.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think I think the other area which I think is potentially sort of um talked about less is your kind of fire um bit of the market, you know, your financial independence guys, so you know, who would tend to be younger and not in, you know, in some ways you you wouldn't think of them as being sort of natural kind of um um seekers of of financial advice because you know it's almost like this this sense.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's certainly a sense in the advice industry that these guys are are kind of uh against the advice function because they're just trying to strip out all the costs that they possibly can and you know of products of advice and where a cost.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh and and and I think you know they they and they want to get all of their advice on TikTok or you know Instagram or wherever, but but I don't think that's true.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I'm I'm I'll um you know, I'm I'm I'm I'm sure enough uh that that it's not true that I think that I think there's a market out there for um for clients who who are in that mindset, who are, you know, who are thinking in those sorts of terms, but actually need and and I think know that that they need, although they might not sort of have articulated it to themselves in that way, um, uh an advisor of of some description, you know, might look like a coach, it might look like traditional IFA financial planner type.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think there's an awful lot of connectivity between the way that that your fire investors uh uh are looking to see things pan out and what a financial planner, good financial planner, is able to bring to things.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's an area of the market that you know I've just struggled to fit clients like that into a proposition at other places.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and since you know we've we've been on our own, we've been speaking to guys like that a lot more through, you know, perhaps channels we wouldn't have before, like social media.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and it's working well, you know, we're we're we're taking on some really, really interesting clients who who have um you know who have that that outlook on things, um, and and it's and it's a good fit.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think the rest of the industry, or you know, not all of it, but I think most of it is is missing a trick there because they're seeing you know this kind of movement as as being an anti-advice movement.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think it is yeah, it's just about yeah, trying to look for you know how you can help in slightly different ways and market yourself differently.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: So don't look at them as almost like um the you know, the uh yeah, you hear the term the DIY brigade.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, here come the DIY Brigade, you know, they're learning less stuff from a YouTube video or um the Reddit groups that are kind of taking down Wall Street, you know.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, love those guys.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what do you what do you think of that?
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting, isn't it?
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh it's very it worries me a bit actually, you know.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's it's it's all it's it's box office, isn't it?
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, who you know, who wouldn't love a bunch of guys on Reddit, you know, taking down some hedge fund guys.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um I guess what I worry about is, you know, I I I think there's this sort of um, you know, this this slightly lazy view that young people aren't engaged with money and they're not very interested in in, you know, in in the the world, world of investment and they don't have the wealth to do anything if if they were.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think any of those things are true.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a lot of money cascading down the generations.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh and I think you know, and it's happening already, and it's gonna happen more.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I also think that a lot of these guys are actually potentially very interested in engaging with the world of finance, which is is what we've seen, right?
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, with all these um uh the these Reddit investors and and what's going on now and and and before that, you know, I know it's it's it's related, but but you know, all of this this um this massive volume of of trading in small accounts on on Robin Hood.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think I think the thing about that is is it sort of proves to me that that there are guys there that want to get their money into the markets and they're interested in how that can work for them.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, how however I think they're they're looking in the wrong places.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think stuff like you know, this, this, this, all this, this GameStop uh stuff and and Robin Hood, it it concerns me that you've got relatively inexperienced in investors, you know, uh getting into the industry in this really kind of gamified way where it's really, really super easy to take out these really complex positions in, you know, in derivatives um using Robin Hood.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, you know, it's it's great that they're engaged and it's great that they're they're they're having this this sort of in you know that that level of interest generated.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, I think I think a lot of people are going to get into positions that that um that they're gonna regret.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think there'll be tears before bedtime, you know, over all that stuff.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the danger there is it just puts a load of people off just engagement with the world of investing full stop.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, I think I I would like to see happen more is is guys like that speak to speak to experts, right?
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I I think that the the challenge there is the experts being able to speak to them the right way in a way that appeals as much as Robin Hood does, or you know, what some guy on Reddit says or some guy on Twitter.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think if you've got you know people in the advice sector speaking to that community in a way that that makes sense to them the same way, I think there's some great clients out there and and some great work that can be done for those clients, but it's a challenge, you know, to communicate the right way, I think.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_00: Communicate and engage in the right way.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps Reddit then, because you know, I never hear of any financial planners that actually engage on Reddit or get involved in it at all.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously it's a platform that that sparks huge communication, doesn't it?
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the thing, and and and also tribes, you know, there's very tribal mentality on the likes of Reddit, isn't it?
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a it's like a public forum in individual communities, and um, whereas communities usually are quite usually you have to go into a community and it's locked off and blocked off from anybody else, and you're part of it.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_00: But these are like open public communities.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_00: So someone who's sort of stroll, you know, typing in some, you know, how to how to invest, or I'd like to take down Wall Street or whatever, can find that find that information so easily.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I just wonder whether or not enough financial planners are using the actual platform Reddit and how powerful Reddit could actually be to educate clients around money, but also to generate the next the next client or influence the next generation that are receiving the higher lump sums as the money passes down the family.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I absolutely.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is this is where my this is my my age, which which you've already established is is advanced, becomes an issue because you know, I'm I I don't use Reddit, you know.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm I'm sort of semi uh O fay with with social media, but but you know, I mean, I don't know how many young people use Facebook these days, none probably.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, I I I guess I'm already starting to feel like oh, you know, can I can I really talk to people at that level?
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's why you know recruitment is so important, getting people in who uh you know who think more like that.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I feel like I'm just about I'm sort of kind of at an age where I can just about relate to people at kind of either end of the age spectrum that that I deal with, and that's uh that that that's good.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_01: But um but but no, I I I think you know, I absolutely I mean guys who are kind of in those communities, you know, who who are looking at becoming advisors and and kind of and and being a voice of the advisor within those communities where they they have credibility would be a great thing, I I think.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think it's it's it's an issue when you think about the average age of age of advisors, isn't it?
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because um, you know, what what kind of um media are are typical advisors using to speak to people, it's probably generally not the sort of media that that those types of clients are going to be looking at, you know.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_01: And um I mean in my in my very limited way, you know, I sort of try and speak about some of these issues.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, a client that we took on, um, you know, like US client, you know, love lovely guys, fire investors, we we took them on through through Twitter.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it was essentially a Twitter acquisition.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, and and we when we started speaking to them initially, you know, it was all about this kind of fire approach.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_01: And they they and they pretty much said, you know, you're the only person vaguely related to the world of advice and you know regulated advice that that's that's talking about about fire anywhere.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I'm not I'm not prolific, right?
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not like I'm I'm an expert.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like I'm out there talking about it every five minutes.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I I just I just talked about it a bit and you know there was a link back to something on our website where we've where we've talked about it and I guess they got a sense that we we got it and you know and that was the start of a conversation and and that and that's where we went.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_01: But you know I I think of those guys I mean uh it's it's it's kind of mind-boggling isn't it in a way that you know in the whole of the Twitter sphere they um you know they just they narrowed their search down to essentially one person at one firm who wasn't even trying all that hard to market themselves as somebody that that's an expert in that so that to me says that there is a niche that does require financial planning.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_00: What's then needed is lines of communication to be opened evidence that somebody within the fire community has benefited from financial planning which they have which is that testimonial my my advice to you would be around this is to raise your profile by connecting with influencers within the fire space.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you're probably fine five to ten of them are out there right with huge followings huge followings and all these people the following are then going to engage with any bit of content that you jewel up with with them.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_00: So if you jumped on some fire podcasts and you talked about financial planning for those that are seeking fire, you know, financial independence retire early and the power of how to partner with a financial planner in the right way I mean that would add so much value and there's so much that you can give because you're an expert within financial planning and they're not.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think by by just doing a quick search as to who these main influencers are, you will find that they will happily get you on their podcast.
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_00: They will happily interview you on YouTube.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_00: They'll happily do some stuff on blog articles because A, it raises their profile a little bit and it's I think interesting for them to talk about um but then you are actually adding good especially if you bring along the guy or girl that you have already um provided a service to who can act as a testimonial so that there is a prime example of a super niche within the next gen within financial planning that requires and and and that's an ex that is like that's an excellent opportunity to raise your profile.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah it's it's it's a good shout absolutely you know it's all about just getting that conversation going isn't it and then if you end up you know I'm sure there are people in the fire community who are violently anti-advisor and anti-traditional advice and that's great you know let's let's have at it you know let's talk about um you know what what what the issues are or perceived issues and um I think that would be a great a great debate to to have because it's probably not really happening is it because probably you've got advisors just assuming that that that you know fire guys aren't really interested in advice and you know maybe those fire guys assuming that the traditional advice industry isn't for them because they don't look like the right fit.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_01: But you know we've got real living breathing clients that are actually you know seeing the link between the two and kind of educating us on on where they see they see the value.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_01: I always think it's you know it sounds like an obvious thing but like listening to real people because you know so much gets decided on behalf of uh uh of clients doesn't it and you know I'm I've been at an industry event a couple of years ago and you know somebody was telling me about you know it was robo advice you know about why young why you know some old guy or why why young people don't want to have face-to-face meetings anymore and they don't want to speak to real people and actually they just want it all in an app it's rubbish you know it's complete rubbish because I you know I I told uh I I got you know my clients are probably skewed a bit younger than average anyway for whatever reason and um speaking to to you know some guy I look after and he was like it's crap I mean he said you know I don't I don't think like that I'm a young person and you know what why why would I want to change you know the outlook that humans have had for like you know the whole evolution you know they want to they want to interact with people don't they they want to take their advice from actual people why why would I want to do it differently and you know just because some guy at a conference says I do.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah it's fear mongering you know yeah it's stirred up by the tech companies but it's also fear from the communities that probably don't embrace technology or understand the value of it technology is always going to it's gonna be there and it's gonna increase and the idea is it's there to improve interaction the very fact that I'm sat here on a you know at my desk you're at yours we're chatting away to each other we've chosen to face we can see each other it it it doesn't but before I was doing any video stuff it was telephone and you know you not being able to physically see somebody was it was like it's actually not it's quite hard and it's quite lonely so why would you remove the need to see somebody yeah what you're just trying to do is is make it more efficient.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_00: So if I can sit down and see 10 people in in my day that's amazing because I've had 10 interactions that I would never have got if I had to get in my car and drive around the country and it'd taken me a week.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know so it's like embrace it face to face is there.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_00: We are naturally social creatures we have to socialize otherwise we get depressed you know it's what we're about is how we learn off of each other.
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_00: And um I think the more you get out there and the more you speak to people the more conversations you have the better.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's I like do me one favor, Greg, just do that.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Make a list of five five sort of influences within that space and just reach out to them because it's very it's a very small task you have to do but I bet you you get some amazing amazing stuff off the back of it and you meet some brilliant people and your your mind expands.
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_00: You might not get something instantly but I bet you get some stuff a bit further down the line.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_00: But also it gives you that experience a bit like this podcast of putting yourself out there and sharing your opinion unapologetically and you're sharing that authentic true self which only helps you grow as a person and gets you out there more.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_00: I can say that because I'm 32 episodes into this podcast never did it before but my God am I out there now and I'm speaking to so many different people I've got so many people around me that are helping me that I never had before you know it's just and it adds value in so many different ways and you I don't know it just makes you feel good as well I think you start to help other people as well it's it's brilliant.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great it's a great thing you're doing you're doing a great thing.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like like you said, you know I think the the advice kind of community I think needs some action some help you know so in terms of sharing best practice and having that community feel especially at the moment you know where you just can't get to events and see people um you know and I think I think stuff like this is great because you just I mean I you know listen to your other podcast I did really um and you can um you know you just you just hear a lot of stuff you know the the from from other places you know and and the thing the thing about it is a lot of it's happening in these small firms isn't it so you know it's it's kind of relatively easy to find out what SJP or wherever thinks about you know X or or Y because it's it's it's out there in you know the public domain but but um and you've probably read about it in in the industry press but you know all so much good stuff is is happening in these small firms in the advice industry and it's quite hard for them to hear from other small firms because actually particularly at the moment how do you do that?
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I think stuff like this is is is great and I think it's going to be challenged as well.
• 1:13:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean you you mentioned in some ways it's terrifying you know going speaking to to five people who um you know potentially have a view that that kind of um that is is opposed to yours and there's a there's a sharing of ideas to happen.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of scary but I quite like to be challenged on stuff like that.
• 1:13:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know it's it's it's healthy isn't it you know I mean I I I I mean again you know may I mean may perhaps I'm I'm sort of you know a bit like with the employee employer thing.
• 1:13:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think my view on you know client acquisition is always I always think it's it's kind of healthily balanced in terms of you know not everyone needs a financial advisor you know not everyone some you know and and restricted advisors aren't evil and you know actually big you know it's it there's the there are a lot of different ways to to cater for people's needs in this 100% there's value add everywhere.
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Don't look for the don't look look for the similarities don't look for the you know too hard the the the differences and if you're looking at differences and then look at the solutions of how you can add value because all people want to do is learn from each other you know I so I love speaking to financial planners because I learn so much personally but also from a business perspective and um you know from my own personal branding and marketing you know I'm building a community soon around financial planner life I'd never have done that if I wasn't speaking to that many financial planners and opening up lines of communication and the one thing that I've definitely picked up is that there is an appetite for financial planners to talk to each other and you hit the nail on the head right financial planning over the next five to ten years and now really is in the early stage of startup you know it may feel like it's traditional been there forever and there's a lot of large firms that have but there's a huge amount of small firms that are in startup stage.
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_00: So this is an exciting time to become a financial planner.
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Great technology you've got marketing you've got branding no one's been doing it before coaches are coming out.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean this is an exciting time exciting period for financial planning and um you know people just need to get behind it and also outside of the profession need to be looking at it and going there's a shitload of money to be made in financial planning.
• 1:15:23
  SPEAKER_00: I know you shouldn't say that oh we should be motivated by money there is a shitload of money to be made in financial planning as a career you can earn good money you can build a really great business that has a good level of recurring income that when you end up selling it you can make a really nice exit you know we're all here to do one thing whether it's build a pension pot that pays our retirement or build a business that pays our retirement and financial planning as a career is very interesting very engaging and very rewarding but it pays well and you can build uh long-term value yeah yeah absolutely no I I agree with that I think that you know I'm very heartened about you know some of the the young guys I speak to who are you know in the process of joining the the the the industry or or deciding whether to I just think um you know it it's it's um there's a big there's a big advice gap you know and I think you know you look at that just just from the outside in I mean there's huge huge opportunity for for for people to get into the industry really really disrupt it because it's ripe for disruption um overly so you know I don't know how it's got away with it for so long really as a as a as a sector you know um and I I think you know smart ambitious guys kind of getting in um can can really you know I I think carve out a really interesting kind of niche for themselves in in in the market because there's there's a lot to go at.
• 1:16:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the other thing that's really good about about the industry and my sort of pitch to people who are you know thinking about whether to to join it I do some some mentoring through the the PFS scheme which is actually really good and I'd I'd recommend it for mentors and mentees alike you know you speak to some of these really young smart guys who are you know either they're in the industry or they're at university and they're they're considering um uh it it as a career um and a lot of them are really they're they're really interested in doing you know what I didn't do and just kind of getting straight into self-employment and just getting into these kind of entrepreneurial spaces very early on and and those guys really really excite me because you know I I think there's probably so much good stuff and good knowledge that that's going to be coming in through through people like that that are just going to just gonna dive in and you know probably make everyone realize that that stuff that's just been taken for granted has been done wrong for you know the last hundred years and and we're all going to find out how how to do it better and differently and then we'll be copying them and I think that's that's that's progress you know um so I think this yeah no I I agree you know I feel very positive about you know going to refreshing and positive look at the future of financial planning not the doom and gloom that sometimes gets talked about so much there is actually positive things happening some amazing talent coming in and as you said is that through like next gen planners that you do that mentoring no no it's it's not so it's the PFS is kind of a a sort of official thing we have a portal for it and but I'm aware of next gen planners as well and that that that's really good and I should I should get involved with that that that too in fact there's this this there's a bit of crossover actually some of the people I speak to through that also are involved with the next gen.
• 1:18:09
  SPEAKER_00: So Adam Owens isn't it that's right yeah yeah I spoke to Adam a couple of times um so we're in the process of doing something together around building a community for financial planner life so you know I'm gonna be looking for for for for mentors really people that can add value and you know almost create an incubator for startup.
• 1:18:28
  SPEAKER_00: So here we are this is financial planning this is what can be done get some brilliant people in there some great you know I'm also looking at people that are outside the profession.
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_00: So bringing in like LinkedIn experts that aren't in financial planning, bringing in marketing experts that aren't in financial planning to be able to give that expertise from an outside perspective instead of it always having to be this insular kind of you know I'm a financial planner who's turned into a marketer and I'll tell you how to be a marketer because I understand financial planning.
• 1:18:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's like well no you know you need people who don't who can challenge the shit out of you.
• 1:18:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:18:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to build this kind of community of people that kind of and I need people in it.
• 1:19:03
  SPEAKER_00: So um I'll be reaching out to my guests and all that kind of stuff to really get this going because I think there's an appetite when you said startup and what I love and it's I tell you something you I said to you I learn on if off every of every call I make right and when you we've got onto the subject about startup that to me is we are in a startup phase within financial planning.
• 1:19:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know why can't why can't we say that?
• 1:19:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great thing and that and I've never heard the term disruptive in financial planning.
• 1:19:28
  SPEAKER_00: And like that's it can be disruptive something can come along and be disruptive and just knock St.
• 1:19:33
  SPEAKER_00: James's place off their pedestal you know this academies that they're all doing which are you know brilliant stuff for the for the profession but it has to you know that can't be the only bloody way for people to get into this profession you know there's some bloody cra clever clever guys out there and girls you know they just need to they just need to know how to do it and perhaps bounce off a few people that have been there and done it got the t-shirt.
• 1:19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah absolutely so you know and I think I think that's the thing that that that's the challenge you know if you're a guy who who you know a girl who wants to kind of get into the industry and kind of do it your own way at an early stage which I think is is a is a potential sort of route in now and something that's interesting to people um you kind of I guess what what you're doing is you're bypassing the sort of thing that I benefited from.
• 1:20:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know you join a big firm and you sat next to some guy who's listening to your calls and telling you that you've got you know you've got the ICR allowance wrong or whatever.
• 1:20:20
  SPEAKER_01: So you know arguably you miss you miss some of the basics along the way and and you know I think um if there's you know community if there's if there's a sort of exchange of knowledge with with guys who've who are experienced practitioners and they've been around for a long time um helping those guys up I I think that's that that's that's got to be a good thing hasn't it because I'll tell you what you know I think that there's a lot of you know there's a lot of firms out there and I think there's a lot of people who probably think like me that that you know they've they've been knocking around the industry for a long time um you know they really really want to see the advice gap closed uh to to a greater degree and they want to see good guys come in and they want to find out what they don't know so that they can sort of evolve things and not get too sort of stuck in in established ways of doing things and um you know I'd I'd really you know I'd love the opportunity to sort of you know help help drag some kind of guys up and get some firms up and running.
• 1:21:06
  SPEAKER_00: As well as a business owner you you know you you've you've got a job to do right you've got to do your job there's only so much time in a day right so you can't go helping everyone all day long otherwise never make any money.
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_00: But if there's something that you're if you can turn around to say someone who's just got their level four qualification off their own back say come and come and work with me right and what I've got is this community you can bolt straight into so if you want to learn a bit about marketing if you want to learn a bit about this a little bit about that and perhaps do some training around this and whatever it might well be it's all in the community and we could we're a member so I'll pop you in the community you can do loads of your learning there um you know CPDs are in there all that kind of stuff as well but at the same time I'll give you on the job work um we've got our you know we've got our community manager um uh and we've got our financial coach they're out there doing the marketing branding making sure our social presence is really good so we're getting lots of people coming through that you can talk to so you can cut your teeth on some of those some of them will want advice some of them won't but guess what that's going to help you out and get you talking to people I mean that's a great model really I think um yeah I think I think definitely think about leading with that social and community focus um because um not enough financial planning firms do that um and um I don't know it'll definitely set you apart 11.2 you know that's the future that's the future of financial planning here absolutely you've you've said you've said it now so that it must be right yeah absolutely definitely definitely we think for a non-executive director role here absolutely bring it on yeah yeah well you yeah you've said it and that's two of us so we m we must we we must be right because we both agree on it so uh no that sounds that sounds that sounds great you know it's uh it's a sort of exciting time funny way you know some funny time to started up um you know what with uh all the other other stuff going on but really exciting time as well because you know I'm sort of just looking outside um the the the firm of what's going on generally and it's just all good stuff you know so uh yeah onward and upward.
• 1:22:59
  SPEAKER_00: I agree Greg look listen really appreciate your time today.
• 1:23:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think we've had a really good conversation um you know and lots have come off of it for myself.
• 1:23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um and um thank you so much for sharing your journey.
• 1:23:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for sharing some of your thoughts and um yeah have a have a fantastic weekend mate.
• 1:23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks a lot mate yeah you too cheers Greg.
• 1:23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Pleasure cheers