Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Si Hart about his choice of The Ark in Space (3/4)

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Talks to Si Hart about his choice of The Ark in Space (3/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt. Pen Knife for doing quicker.
• 0:37
  It wasn't Action TV any longer and nor was it aimed squarely at
• 0:41
  the Boys for a generation. This is what Doctor Who is like.
• 0:45
  In the same way that for better or for worst, the Wet Planet,
• 0:48
  Tomb of the Side Men and Mind Warp all represent their own
• 0:51
  eras. Unlike it's younger cousin
• 0:54
  Alien, the horror here is all conceptual but not too abstract.
• 0:58
  For the kiddies, the set is enough like a hospital for green
• 1:02
  goo to be shocking by it's very presence.
• 1:05
  For a child, the worst thing imaginable is being separated,
• 1:09
  cut off from the familiar world. It's only an adventure if you
• 1:12
  can get home easily, but isolation and not being listened
• 1:16
  to by authority figures are the source of a lot of deep rooted
• 1:20
  anxieties, ones which all adults can remember.
• 1:26
  Welcome back to a Hamster with a blunt pen knife, the Doctor Who
• 1:30
  commentary podcast. So you've just heard an excerpt
• 1:33
  from the About Time. Review Oh, I love those books
• 1:37
  by. Lawrence Miles, you know,
• 1:40
  completely balmy these days, but a very small cookie.
• 1:43
  And Tatwood, who I believe took on the books himself after Yes.
• 1:47
  He's just rewritten that one. Had it sale.
• 1:51
  They're very smart books, those aren't they?
• 1:53
  They are. They get a lot wrong, but their
• 1:55
  essays are very, very interesting.
• 1:57
  Their opinions are what? Yeah.
• 2:00
  I love with me. Yes, and me.
• 2:02
  But that's why I like them so much, because I just argue with
• 2:05
  them. But there's so much detail in
• 2:07
  there. I think the only thing that's
• 2:10
  studied Doctor Who in more detail is hands of a blunt pen
• 2:13
  knife. Yeah.
• 2:15
  Well, overall and we've done a good job.
• 2:18
  You don't want to know how many hours of this.
• 2:20
  Thing there is now. No, I don't, because I know then
• 2:23
  how many hours I've spent listening to this thing, I
• 2:26
  think. You can listen for three solid
• 2:28
  weeks now. Oh.
• 2:30
  My God, imagine how many wrong opinions from Fraser would you
• 2:36
  get in that time. Too many of in that way.
• 2:39
  Endless lies if anyone tried to do.
• 2:42
  I know some people have done the whole run though.
• 2:44
  Yeah, even I haven't done the whole run.
• 2:47
  You tell me off mic which ones you avoided.
• 2:53
  So we're here for part three of the Arcan Space today, and this,
• 2:57
  bizarrely, was the first episode of the Arcan Space that I saw
• 3:00
  part. 3. Yes, because in the very late
• 3:07
  80s, I think this was, would have been early 1989.
• 3:12
  It's my tale of youth here we here we go.
• 3:15
  I was 13 and we had, we had cable TV in Bracknell, which was
• 3:20
  was quite forward and progressive at that time.
• 3:22
  And we had Super Channel which was showing lots of archive TV
• 3:27
  from the BBC and Thames TV. And 1:00 Saturday morning, I
• 3:33
  happened to be watching, I think it was Rent A Ghost with my
• 3:36
  Brother, which was being repeated.
• 3:38
  And he said after the break, Blake 7.
• 3:41
  And then it's just like, Oh my God, Blake 7's on.
• 3:45
  This is Saturday morning. I'm just back from my paper
• 3:47
  round. I've got to find a videotape to
• 3:48
  record, record this because wow, it's Blake 7.
• 3:52
  And so I recorded Blake 7 on the Saturday.
• 3:55
  And is it Ultra World? No, it was weapon from series 2.
• 4:00
  So it was good, good episode to come in with.
• 4:03
  So that was that was great. So I've got got a tape.
• 4:06
  And so with my my wages from my paper round that week, I went
• 4:09
  and bought a new videotape because I thought, well, perhaps
• 4:12
  on Sunday morning Blake 7 will be on.
• 4:15
  And then I got back from my paper round got there about the
• 4:18
  same time as Blake seven had been on the day before and and
• 4:22
  the announcement came on after the break.
• 4:26
  Doctor Who, I was just like, Oh my God.
• 4:29
  And so rush, rush, rush, get this videotape ready, right?
• 4:32
  OK. I don't know what it's going to
• 4:33
  be. What story is it going to be?
• 4:34
  I had no idea because I knew they bought the 1st and they
• 4:38
  bought up to the end of season 15, so it could have been
• 4:42
  anything. And the titles came up and it
• 4:45
  was very exciting. And it was the arcade space Part
• 4:48
  3. And so the very first part of
• 4:50
  the arcade space I saw was Noah's hands coming up.
• 4:54
  Oh my God, and. They showed, they showed 2
• 4:57
  episodes. So that was really exciting to
• 4:59
  have. And I remember coming into
• 5:02
  school on the Monday and my friend Richard, who was my
• 5:04
  Doctor Who found friend at school saying, you won't believe
• 5:07
  what I've seen this weekend like 7.
• 5:10
  And I brought this tape in for you to watch arcade space parts
• 5:13
  three and four. I was just like, Oh my God.
• 5:17
  So that means we're close to Genesis of the Daleks.
• 5:20
  And so. Property in town there.
• 5:22
  Yeah. And so for some reason they
• 5:25
  showed the stories out of order. I think they showed them in
• 5:27
  production order. So we we've met.
• 5:30
  So the next story they showed was Revenge of the Sidemen,
• 5:33
  which was very disappointing because we've got that on video
• 5:35
  already. And then Genesis of the Daleks
• 5:38
  was on, which was, was was brilliant and great.
• 5:42
  And then after Part 2 of Genesis of the Daleks, we got a letter
• 5:46
  to say we've decided due to popularity, we're going to take
• 5:50
  Super Channel away from Bracknell Cable and that's it.
• 5:54
  And so we only got the first two of the Daleks and we were so
• 5:59
  upset. And I wish I'd if I'd known
• 6:02
  weeks before I could have been recording all of this stuff, but
• 6:05
  I had no idea it was on. The trials and tribulations of a
• 6:10
  Doctor Who youth. Exactly so.
• 6:13
  Still remember, you know that panic when?
• 6:16
  You know anything Doctor Who related is going.
• 6:19
  To be on the team. Absolutely.
• 6:20
  Yeah, you've been. Travelling around on the Scotch
• 6:23
  tape. You know, where there might be a
• 6:25
  clip of it on telly addicts or or something like that, a
• 6:27
  glimpse of something that you haven't seen before.
• 6:30
  I got quite savvy in the end because I used to record things
• 6:33
  like Telly Alex, just in case, you know, I.
• 6:35
  Had AI had a tape with that was full of interviews and things
• 6:39
  that I'd recorded over the years.
• 6:40
  I just had ready at the next bit to record you.
• 6:43
  Used to do that thing where you hook one VHS to another with a
• 6:47
  scar lead and then you record clips from one video to another
• 6:51
  because I had a doctor. Who?
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  Oh, I remember we, we talked about this in one of our in one
• 6:56
  of our other commentaries. I think I had AI had an audio
• 6:59
  cassette that definitely had clips from the arcade space on
• 7:02
  it where with favorite scenes or bits of music and things like
• 7:05
  that that I'd I'd. Recorded because I edited
• 7:08
  together, you know, a really fantastic videotape of all my
• 7:12
  favorite Doctor Who clips. I can't be fucking asked to edit
• 7:14
  any of this podcast. Fully of youth.
• 7:19
  I know. Yeah, I know better.
• 7:21
  Things to do with your time now when you get past 18.
• 7:26
  Well, look. Before we go into Part 3.
• 7:29
  Yes. Any questions prepared?
• 7:31
  Oh yes. Oh, sorry, people have taken the
• 7:34
  time. They have Sorry, sorry.
• 7:37
  Thank you. So I'm we're still really
• 7:39
  overwhelmed by this. OK, here's a great question
• 7:43
  from. I saw them coming in and then
• 7:46
  all today and I was going how the hell are we going to get for
• 7:48
  all the. Here's a great question, Hannah
• 7:52
  Cooper. Wonderful, Hannah says.
• 7:54
  Would you have rather been trapped on NERVA Beacon during
• 7:57
  the events of the Ark in Space or Revenge of the Cybermen?
• 8:03
  Oh, neither really. I wouldn't have.
• 8:08
  Time in either. Case In one I'm probably going
• 8:10
  to be implanted with eggs and torn inside out, and in the
• 8:13
  other you're. Going to be shaken to death by
• 8:16
  the Cybermen. The Ark's going to head for the
• 8:20
  OR. Or you've been killed by the
• 8:22
  plague. Yeah, so Hannah.
• 8:26
  I've passed. I don't think this is a great
• 8:27
  time to be stuck in a Doctor Who story, to be honest.
• 8:30
  I don't think this era is a green.
• 8:34
  I do. You know what?
• 8:34
  I'll join around season 16 and go on a fun adventure.
• 8:38
  Yeah, I. Think that'd be yeah, any most
• 8:40
  of those planets look like they'd be quite nice.
• 8:42
  You know, we could have a sort of flight on Tara.
• 8:45
  Yeah, sounds good. And about the countryside with a
• 8:48
  load of rocks. And the wonderful Tom Newsome
• 8:53
  asks, did this story need a bigger budget?
• 8:57
  Yes. Did every classic Doctor Who
• 9:01
  story need a bigger budget? Yes, that's that was the
• 9:04
  question I asked him afterwards. Oh, OK.
• 9:07
  Yeah, no, yeah. Yes to both.
• 9:09
  And Hannah comes back to say, how would this story have coped
• 9:13
  with a smaller budget? Have you seen the Tomorrow
• 9:18
  People? Yes, there's your answer.
• 9:24
  Lovely Tom Newsom is coming on soon.
• 9:27
  Oh, thank goodness. It's about time to go for it,
• 9:30
  Tom. You'll be brilliant be.
• 9:31
  Amazing anymore then? I would say there's Dan
• 9:38
  Hollingsworth asked. Did this story make you afraid
• 9:40
  of bubble wrap? But we've dealt with bubble
• 9:42
  wrap. It made me more afraid of slugs.
• 9:48
  There's a guy here called Fraser Gregory.
• 9:52
  He sounds very sexy, I must say he does.
• 9:54
  That's a good name, isn't it? I like that.
• 9:56
  I like the sound of him. I suspect he's probably from
• 9:58
  Ireland or something like that. Probably, yeah.
• 10:02
  So what does Harry Sullivan add to this story?
• 10:08
  It's the the down to earthness of his character amongst all all
• 10:12
  of this sort of political atmosphere.
• 10:16
  He adds some serious personality to the story.
• 10:21
  Yeah, I think it's he, he has some lot.
• 10:24
  He adds some humour with his bumbling around, which I think
• 10:28
  it it needs. It would be a bit, maybe it
• 10:31
  would be a bit too scary if we didn't have that lighter light a
• 10:35
  shade in there. And I think Ian Martyr does that
• 10:37
  really well. And again, I think he gets
• 10:40
  someone who's on his level to to work with and have scenes with
• 10:44
  in this this episode when Rogan arrives, so.
• 10:49
  And see what if the fair sex being top of the totem pole?
• 10:55
  I say that must give your female chauvinist heart the power of
• 10:58
  goods. Why?
• 11:03
  Because I'll tell you what he brings Fraser, and I know it's a
• 11:06
  word I use a lot, a sense of fabulousness.
• 11:09
  I mean, he's just, he's so charismatic here, Master.
• 11:12
  Yeah, it's, it's weird, isn't it?
• 11:15
  He he really is. He's sort of the downtrodden
• 11:18
  one, but he's just sparkles. Jack Ray's been in love with him
• 11:21
  ever since. Yeah, well, you can understand
• 11:23
  why he is. He's just a really underrated
• 11:28
  actor and it's a shame we didn't have more of him.
• 11:31
  I I wouldn't trade the Doctor and Sarah relationship that we
• 11:36
  get through season 13, but there is a part of me that thinks they
• 11:43
  missed the trick by not keeping Harry on for longer and I think
• 11:47
  he would have added some levity to to a lot of a lot of the
• 11:51
  stories that came. I can't see how he would fit
• 11:53
  into some of them, but Bob Holmes was a genius.
• 11:57
  He'd have made it work. Yeah.
• 11:59
  I mean, this is dark, and so is Genesis.
• 12:02
  So he can work within those stories.
• 12:04
  Yeah. Are we both saying, then, that
• 12:07
  we are Harry Sullivan stands? I think so.
• 12:11
  Stand for Harry Sullivan. That you would.
• 12:15
  Quite a nice way to go into part three, yeah?
• 12:17
  Yes, he's got very good sideburns.
• 12:20
  Did you not see his arse in episode 1 in those trousers?
• 12:23
  Because misses Arse in episode 1.
• 12:25
  Almighty, I mean I bet the production crew are all going up
• 12:28
  and having a pinch. Something for the mums.
• 12:33
  Well, count us in. OK, in 54321, let's go.
• 12:42
  The reason I read that extra at the beginning of the episode
• 12:46
  because I can be a little bit rude about the House Stammers
• 12:49
  Walker's books, which I do think are great.
• 12:52
  They gave us stuff like the Companions, the 60s, seventies,
• 12:55
  the 80's, the Handbooks and things like that, all this
• 12:59
  detail. Their scholarship was was very,
• 13:02
  very good. The bad side of it is it did
• 13:07
  cement that opinion Which. We.
• 13:09
  Talked about sort of combating and and podcasting given the
• 13:13
  alternatives. Yeah, because they're once
• 13:18
  something is written down, it becomes fact when it's not
• 13:22
  necessarily fact I. Basically read it out to justify
• 13:25
  this podcast existence. Well, there we go.
• 13:28
  Well, thank you. Goodness.
• 13:30
  Sorry, can I say something to you?
• 13:31
  Yeah. Hello Space.
• 13:36
  Station. The fact that you are hearing my
• 13:41
  voice, I mean, it's Margaret Thatcher, isn't it?
• 13:47
  Well, it is, but this is before Margaret Thatcher.
• 13:51
  Really, She wasn't even Conservative leader at this
• 13:56
  point, so it was quite, quite pressing again in the way then
• 14:00
  tariff the Zygons becomes. I think this is one of the most
• 14:04
  important scenes in the whole story because he's talking in
• 14:09
  the in her recorded message about the bold, brilliant
• 14:12
  future. And while she's doing that, we
• 14:15
  cut to Noah with the wearing hands, and that's the threat to
• 14:20
  what she's talking. About and for the start he is
• 14:24
  standing to attention and listening proudly.
• 14:27
  And then he starts to to move and you can see the we're in
• 14:32
  part of him sort of taking over. I do think I, I, yeah, it's like
• 14:38
  the crinoid. There are certain layers to the
• 14:44
  transformation. There's different scenes with
• 14:46
  the transformation. We never really see anyone
• 14:48
  transforming, do we? It's, it's no, you know, a.
• 14:51
  Little bit and then a. Mid bit and then the lot.
• 14:54
  Yeah. I think the mid bit is the most
• 14:56
  successful one. Yeah, I think so with the big
• 14:59
  eye. And, and the the way his hands
• 15:01
  sort of withered away as well as.
• 15:03
  And he's moving differently and he's hunched over.
• 15:06
  I'm just doing the actions there.
• 15:07
  For anyone sort of listening, it's.
• 15:10
  Great podcasting well. Done.
• 15:11
  It is. But like the whole idea of him
• 15:14
  fighting against that and, and the way it's done sort of
• 15:17
  physically. Yeah, and he's bashing it
• 15:20
  because he doesn't. He wants to get rid of it.
• 15:24
  Holmes is like, we're not going to just have possession this
• 15:26
  time. We're going to have possession
• 15:27
  and body transformation as well. Don't know, I haven't.
• 15:33
  Someone mentioned about the people in the caskets blinking,
• 15:36
  but I haven't seen any yet. No, I haven't noticed that
• 15:39
  either. So once once you start noticing
• 15:42
  it, you can't. That was my my old friend Andrew
• 15:45
  Kerner who said that. Andrew, I haven't seen it yet.
• 15:49
  Stop spoiling Doctor Who for yourself.
• 15:51
  Yeah, it's not worth it. Just enjoying the story.
• 15:56
  Sorry. Expedite revivification.
• 16:04
  Yeah. He's the, you know, we talked
• 16:05
  about Fuchsium and House, a character in agony, you know,
• 16:10
  from a sort of moral agony. This is that sort of intensity
• 16:14
  again, isn't it? Yeah.
• 16:15
  Good. Oh, sure, people to the earth I
• 16:20
  remember being. I remember being surprised by
• 16:23
  the pronunciation of Wiran because I'd only read it in
• 16:27
  books and so I had no idea that it was pronounced Wiran.
• 16:31
  I thought it was Wiran. Oh, that's cute.
• 16:38
  There's no, because there is no reason to say that that's Wiran.
• 16:41
  They needed an E in it to be Wiran.
• 16:44
  You know, there is a bit of that going on though, you know,
• 16:46
  because I did think it was logo polis.
• 16:48
  And yeah, Mandragora. I dread to think what I thought
• 16:51
  Castro Valva was. Oh, did I?
• 16:54
  Do you ever do the story about Show Me the Cat In?
• 16:58
  Oh yeah, show me. Matt Michaels friend thought the
• 17:02
  cat was called Show. Oh, that's still one of the
• 17:07
  favorite stories I've ever heard.
• 17:12
  Oh, sorry, he's doing his. I know, and we're laughing all
• 17:16
  over just that. The way he's fighting against
• 17:22
  his arm is really great. And I think like the idea,
• 17:30
  forget about the execution a second, the idea of losing your
• 17:34
  body to this thing. And losing your mind to this.
• 17:38
  Thing your body and turning you into something else.
• 17:41
  For a young mind watching this, it's scary, yeah.
• 17:45
  It was scary at 13 when I first saw it, I thought that it's.
• 17:50
  Scary. It's.
• 17:51
  Kind of intensity. I'm scared now of suddenly the
• 17:54
  fact that you're right, that I'm all right.
• 18:02
  Oh. So when he has this idea in a
• 18:03
  minute. He has the biggest grin on his
• 18:06
  face. He does because which is again,
• 18:09
  it's like we said in Part 2 where you said it's that saying
• 18:13
  something serious but playing it differently because that's how
• 18:16
  Tom plays his doctor, that something really serious and
• 18:20
  dangerous he'll do with a grin. And when Sarah goes, oh, look,
• 18:24
  he talks to himself sometimes, but you know, it's because only
• 18:27
  he knows what he's talking about.
• 18:32
  Oh, it's so witty. But it's odd, isn't it?
• 18:35
  Because Sarah hasn't done very much in this at all.
• 18:38
  You. Can see why she was a bit
• 18:41
  actually. She gets more to do in four,
• 18:43
  doesn't she? Yes, she does.
• 18:44
  But here she's just through the most of this episode, she's just
• 18:49
  a bystander. Harry gets to go off and do
• 18:51
  things. In fact, I I do have a tale of
• 18:54
  youth for you in episode Oh my. Goodness, what?
• 18:57
  And it's my most embarrassing moment in all with Doctor Who.
• 19:02
  Oh, right. Go on then.
• 19:03
  I'm ready. I'll.
• 19:04
  Tell you it now. OK, well, it's, you know, the
• 19:07
  bit when Sarah's up the ventilation shaft?
• 19:10
  Yep. And she gets pulled out by by
• 19:13
  the doctor and my mum chose to come into the room and sit down
• 19:17
  and I was like, oh, this arc in space, It's such a great story.
• 19:20
  Like she'll be so impressed with this one.
• 19:23
  And then Sarah comes out and she's doing that whole oh.
• 19:28
  Cond again. You're a brute.
• 19:31
  And my mum laughed so hard she went, oh, that woman, she goes,
• 19:36
  that woman, that the acting is terrible.
• 19:39
  And she's spent, I'm not kidding you, about a decade going to me.
• 19:44
  Oh, Joe Cond again. Well, I have to admit as a as a
• 19:51
  13 year old when I watch that, I thought that scene was pretty
• 19:54
  cringy. I didn't like that.
• 19:57
  You're a Groot. I Oh, there we go.
• 20:04
  And of course, this is the famous scene that was cut
• 20:08
  because Philip Hinchcliffe thought it was too much of Noah
• 20:12
  begging to be killed. And 10 years later, they do that
• 20:18
  scene in Revelation of the Daleks.
• 20:21
  If you hold of me, Natasha, kill me.
• 20:24
  Yeah. It's a check that the cart is
• 20:28
  quite obvious as well, isn't it? It's.
• 20:30
  Yeah, once you know it, I think even before it felt like
• 20:33
  something was missing there. I think it's a shame we don't
• 20:36
  see more of that part of the transformation because that
• 20:39
  looked great. It looks less like bubble wrap
• 20:44
  and it's sort of sort of bulbous and and lumps and things, you
• 20:47
  know? Yeah, yeah, there's, there's
• 20:52
  quite a lot of discussion about that scene in the question.
• 20:57
  So Harrison Chase asks, do they still exist and will they be
• 21:06
  made publicly available? Well, no, they don't still
• 21:08
  exist. If they if they did, we'd have
• 21:10
  seen them. I'd just say, Harrison, thank
• 21:14
  you very much for stepping away from your green cathedral to ask
• 21:17
  us that question. And I'm sure there's some more
• 21:24
  discussion about that. Do you think they should have
• 21:27
  cut that? I think given some of the stuff
• 21:32
  that's coming in this era, no, I think there's there's more
• 21:36
  questionable moments there should have been cut later on in
• 21:39
  this era and it's kind of suggestion rather than showing.
• 21:43
  So I think it's going to handle that.
• 21:46
  But I've not seen the acting. Maybe it was just really.
• 21:49
  No, because he's quite intense anyway, so maybe that was what
• 21:54
  made it too much. That grub going down the cold
• 21:57
  house the first time, I'm like, Oh no.
• 21:59
  Yeah. But like, I imagine that as a
• 22:04
  seriously good special effect. It would be so creepy, wouldn't
• 22:08
  it? I think they got the maggots
• 22:11
  better, you know? I think they did so again,
• 22:15
  because they said they're not going to do these as as puppets
• 22:18
  so they could get a man inside creeping around.
• 22:22
  And Wendy Williams tells a great story about how those scenes,
• 22:25
  the actors couldn't take them seriously because you'd hear
• 22:28
  Stuart Fair inside, and the moment he's crawling around on
• 22:31
  the floor, you just hear the bubbles popping all the way
• 22:34
  through. Feel like there is a mesh lesson
• 22:37
  for the audience of a hamster and a blunt pen knife there.
• 22:41
  Use less bubble wrap. Use more condoms, OK?
• 22:45
  Although I do think like given, I mean, they asked Stuart Fell
• 22:49
  to do some strange things. It does have that sort of
• 22:53
  movement, that reciprocal movement of a bug.
• 22:56
  Yeah, they're thinking about how they move properly.
• 22:59
  I don't know if I've ever heard him talk about this one.
• 23:01
  I remember he talked about being on his hands and knees for the
• 23:03
  Shrivens Ale and that being really uncomfortable.
• 23:16
  We're watching now, Psy. Yeah, this.
• 23:18
  Well we never do this do we? So, so this is the doctor sort
• 23:22
  of working out that the the women will have a pupil stage
• 23:26
  where they properly transform. So they've got time and we've
• 23:31
  got 2 new characters who we haven't discussed who have been
• 23:33
  woken up as well. They are extremely middle class,
• 23:37
  aren't? They they are both with great
• 23:39
  big noses. So yes, Rogan is is played by
• 23:46
  Richardson Morgan, who is returning from the Webophia.
• 23:51
  Who is he in that? He is one of the soldiers again,
• 23:54
  one of the very down to earth. OK, I don't think he's Weems,
• 23:59
  but I think he's one of the the slightly more senior than than
• 24:02
  Weems ones. So.
• 24:03
  So we've got 7 characters now, haven't we?
• 24:05
  So this is more like your sort of standard cast story.
• 24:09
  Obviously someone's there just to be murdered.
• 24:12
  Yep, which is absolutely fine. Someone's there as the villain.
• 24:16
  Yep, And that leaves us two people to populate the Earth.
• 24:20
  Yep, no one spoke of a great blackness.
• 24:27
  The rushing in. Well, we've all been there.
• 24:32
  He meant space. But did he know?
• 24:35
  I've never rushed into a great blackness in my life.
• 24:40
  Many. Have rushed into mine though.
• 24:45
  Oh no, I've just told everyone. Oh.
• 24:48
  Never mind. Well, I'd say you could edit
• 24:53
  that out, but it's a common trait.
• 24:57
  When do I ever edit anything out?
• 24:59
  What we need is the big matrix bleep from the mysterious planet
• 25:03
  over that many of rushing to. Look at that, the grubs pushing
• 25:10
  up against the grill. It is, and that grill is made of
• 25:13
  case hardened iranium that's bent like tin you.
• 25:16
  Know what? When you start talking about a
• 25:18
  technobar, will you get me hard? You do.
• 25:21
  I have AI have a think about Doctor Who, really amazing
• 25:27
  metals that come up. So we've just had in the story
• 25:30
  before, we've had a safe that's made out of diner stream and
• 25:34
  then we've got case hardened Iranium in this one.
• 25:37
  I love things like that. I was just doing a little deal
• 25:40
  in the stock market for Argonite the other day.
• 25:44
  Exactly. Yeah, all of those things.
• 25:47
  Olium. Sigh.
• 25:49
  Olium Matronite 1/5. They're all such a mouthful as
• 25:56
  well, aren't they? Do.
• 25:58
  We have any precious metals or minerals during the Saywood era
• 26:02
  during the 80s? I suppose we've got spectrums.
• 26:06
  We Yes, it's the most valuable substance in the universe.
• 26:10
  Joe I. Think you and I are using that
• 26:11
  little. We're looking younger than ever.
• 26:12
  Oh. Tinklavic.
• 26:15
  Oh, the Tinklavic mines on Raga? Oh no, wait.
• 26:22
  Zytan 7. Of course.
• 26:26
  And then Cartman went. I'm not doing it at bullshit.
• 26:29
  No, but human beings are quite my favorite species.
• 26:34
  Oh, that's so nice, that line, isn't it?
• 26:36
  I love these scenes where he's connected up and we're seeing
• 26:40
  what happened. It's so good.
• 26:42
  And Dudley Simpson is on great form for those scenes as well.
• 26:47
  He's really selling that. I know we talked about Simpsons
• 26:53
  scores before. Extensively and I.
• 26:57
  Know we do like the later ones. I do feel like he's doing his
• 27:03
  best some. Of his he is suddenly elevating
• 27:09
  his work. I think the material is really
• 27:12
  inspiring him to do something different.
• 27:14
  And this is so far ahead of the season 11 scores, which are OK,
• 27:18
  but they're not very memorable. But this one, he suddenly gets
• 27:24
  Doctor Who is scary. So he's going to do everything
• 27:27
  to make it scarier. And with Oh my God that.
• 27:31
  See, I do like that jump scare there where the bug just comes
• 27:34
  out of nowhere. Close the door.
• 27:36
  Shut the door. Then it is sensible enough there
• 27:39
  he just shoots it with it just back up above the camera.
• 27:43
  Absolutely. That's good.
• 27:44
  It's in a minute when it's trying to get in the door.
• 27:47
  It's a bit roady. I love the fact that the doctor
• 27:51
  says to Vira, if anything goes wrong with this, take this up
• 27:55
  and kill me basically. That's a great moment.
• 27:59
  Yeah, and we're we're seeing an expanded version of what we've
• 28:02
  seen in Part 1. So he's the wearing is being
• 28:05
  attacked by the the defence thing and the doctor's feeling
• 28:08
  the pain and it's still struggling on.
• 28:11
  I would just like to take a moment to address Fraser Gregory
• 28:15
  personally at the moment and say this is precisely how you do
• 28:19
  exposition in Doctor Who. You do a very quick POV shot of
• 28:25
  what is occurring, all the back story in a very dramatic way in
• 28:29
  a situation where if it goes wrong, the doctor could die.
• 28:32
  You know, I mean Christian will take note.
• 28:35
  Yeah, and this makes sense of why the cables have been cut in
• 28:38
  Part 1, because now we've seen the Wiran did it because it
• 28:41
  needed to stop the self destruct thing.
• 28:43
  I mean, that could be a Moffit twist.
• 28:45
  Couldn't. It that could.
• 28:46
  Remembering those things. And here we see the beginning of
• 28:50
  Part 1, where it's it's on its way to lay its eggs.
• 28:57
  We know it's June because we've kind of.
• 28:59
  Yeah, but it's the way Virus says it.
• 29:04
  Yeah, it's great. The only thing ever I just would
• 29:07
  love to see. And yeah, a sick bastard.
• 29:10
  I'd love to see the the transformation of June, like,
• 29:15
  yeah, bursting. Oh, look at this.
• 29:19
  Fools. Human.
• 29:22
  Human fools. Look at his.
• 29:24
  Face. Yeah, we're in the fly territory
• 29:27
  now. Yes, and Daniel Rawnsley says,
• 29:31
  do we think as well as aliens being and seed him for this,
• 29:36
  that there's a it owes as much to the fly?
• 29:39
  Definitely yes. Because it's a transformation,
• 29:42
  isn't it? Yeah, actually that's better
• 29:44
  than I remember him going out the door like that.
• 29:48
  Maybe it's because we can't hear the rap hitting the door.
• 29:53
  Especially the sort of trapped in that room.
• 29:56
  We know what's going to happen if he gets.
• 29:59
  And now the doctor seems to be possessed by the Warren and.
• 30:04
  That's great drama. She goes to shoot him, Sarah
• 30:07
  and. Sarah.
• 30:08
  Pulls the gun away. It's great and.
• 30:13
  Again, she's doing that thing of being scared and happy at the
• 30:16
  same time. Doctor, you're going to be all
• 30:19
  right. Yeah, I love that CSO shot of
• 30:23
  the the. Taking away the layers.
• 30:27
  This is the only bit I would definitely would have caught
• 30:29
  this shitty shot of the thing this doesn't.
• 30:32
  Work at all Does it Bless. Oh bless, but I do like the fact
• 30:39
  that Doctor goes up to say hello.
• 30:42
  Aim. Lower Is it because he's done
• 30:45
  that thing and he's got an affinity with it, or is it
• 30:48
  because he's well? I think you're not supposed to
• 30:50
  really know because he comes, when he comes to, he's saying
• 30:53
  Wiran, Wiran, Wiran and it's like, has he been affected by
• 30:58
  this? I think we got we're still
• 31:00
  getting to know him as well. We.
• 31:02
  Don't exactly know this doctor, No.
• 31:06
  I think Sarah's our anchor, isn't she?
• 31:09
  Yes. And we're not seeing a lot of
• 31:10
  her. So it's, it must have been quite
• 31:14
  disorientating. I think for the audience.
• 31:17
  It's so, so different. It's worth remembering after
• 31:21
  that first episode went out the the ratings spike for episode 2.
• 31:26
  Yeah. It's 13.6 million, yeah.
• 31:29
  It's a huge audience. Doctor Who hadn't had audiences
• 31:31
  like that for a long time. It was the 6th most watched
• 31:35
  programme for the week. Astonishing.
• 31:38
  It's almost at the stolen Earth, kind of everyone's talking about
• 31:44
  this. Oh yeah, for sure.
• 31:47
  You've got the Doctor looking at eccentric as hell with Sarah and
• 31:50
  Harry behind looking concerned. If you watch the snapshot of
• 31:53
  season 12, there it is. That's it.
• 31:58
  What do you think of Tom's early costume?
• 32:02
  Because his costume gets refined as he goes along.
• 32:05
  I'm not going to be popular with you now because I think the only
• 32:08
  Tom Baker costume that I struggle with is the Season 18
• 32:12
  One Fair. Enough.
• 32:14
  I like all the others. I've all the others.
• 32:16
  Feel a lot lived in 18, feels very tailored.
• 32:19
  Yep, because it is. And it is gorgeous.
• 32:24
  I love the colour, I hate the question marks, but no, I like
• 32:30
  it. Yeah, he feels cut.
• 32:31
  He, he, he, Elizabeth Slayden says.
• 32:34
  You put on a costume and sometimes you get a lot of
• 32:36
  character from the costume, and I think Tom Baker embodies that.
• 32:39
  Yeah. Clothes do make if a man.
• 32:42
  Sorry. Yeah.
• 32:44
  And they smarten him him up for a while before he goes back.
• 32:50
  But it's quite I always find it sort of after knowing Tom from
• 32:54
  from late series, seeing him in a short jacket always feels a
• 32:58
  bit disorientating. Did you hear that it.
• 33:02
  Goes oh, that's clever. Oh good, since you appreciate
• 33:06
  it, you can go first. You can go first.
• 33:11
  I mean, OK, what other science fiction was about at the time
• 33:15
  Space 1999 was about to be around, wasn't it?
• 33:17
  Yeah. There wasn't a great deal around
• 33:20
  at this point. I just don't think there was
• 33:22
  anything as witty as Doctor Who. No, not at all.
• 33:27
  I love the way Rogan says. It always sends my teeth on
• 33:29
  edge. Yeah.
• 33:31
  And he's so down to. I'm surprised Sarah got back in,
• 33:34
  you know? After.
• 33:35
  Well, yeah. Oh, this is a great way of
• 33:38
  splitting them up, isn't it? Yes.
• 33:42
  So what's he what? He wants to electrify the
• 33:44
  infrastructure. That's right, so that they can't
• 33:47
  get in. Oh, it doesn't.
• 33:49
  Protect the cryogenic chamber. Of course.
• 33:52
  Oh yeah, it goes because they'll eat their way through the
• 33:55
  cryogenic paper like a load of. Jelly babies.
• 34:02
  That's a great one as well. Obviously I am not going
• 34:06
  anywhere. So when you first watched this,
• 34:10
  were you sit in your I Don't like Sarah face?
• 34:14
  Of course you were. Yeah, yeah.
• 34:15
  Well, I'm sort of ambivalent at this point.
• 34:18
  I hadn't gone into fall. I think that was more of my late
• 34:21
  teens. Watched her stories in
• 34:24
  retrospect and. Oh, I can see exactly what she's
• 34:27
  doing, and I think she's wonderful.
• 34:29
  Yeah, I do too. And again, she hasn't got a lot
• 34:33
  to do here, but she does it very well.
• 34:36
  This season, no, she does. They put her through hell.
• 34:39
  Oh, God, yeah. I it was the flight for
• 34:41
  entirety, boys that say, if you were Sarah Jane in real life,
• 34:45
  there is no way you'd get back in that TARDIS and do anything.
• 34:48
  You'd be traumatized for the rest of your life just by being.
• 34:51
  And we talked about it, didn't we?
• 34:52
  About the absolute nastiness of dangling her off the top of the
• 34:56
  rocket when she's falling. Down the gantry.
• 34:58
  Yeah, and when she is absolutely terrified anyway.
• 35:02
  Being tortured by Styre in various ways.
• 35:06
  It's nasty. The claustrophobia in this and
• 35:09
  being frozen, yeah, but the virus in Revenge of the Side
• 35:14
  Men. Yeah, she yeah, she's the
• 35:16
  victim. He's he doesn't want to kill off
• 35:19
  women, but he's quite happy to torture them horribly.
• 35:22
  No. See, now those pupa that we're
• 35:27
  seeing, they do look a bit cardboardy, don't they?
• 35:30
  But. They do.
• 35:31
  It does tell the story. It does and.
• 35:36
  Quite cleverly, the designer you have two like actual physical
• 35:42
  props. And then a few small ones
• 35:45
  dangling at the back. And there's, it's almost like a
• 35:47
  backcloth, isn't it? Of loss?
• 35:49
  So oh, here we go. Oh.
• 35:52
  It's Noah. Oh, there was me saying there
• 35:55
  was no transformation. Yeah, it was a cliffhanger as
• 35:58
  well. Joe, I'm.
• 35:59
  So sorry, in fact, they've been pretty throughout that episode.
• 36:03
  Because it's all the transformation episode, isn't
• 36:05
  it? Yeah, he's.
• 36:07
  Done a pretty good job across the board there those.
• 36:09
  I think that's not bad. That sells the the thing.
• 36:12
  It happens very fast. Yeah, well, and that last phase,
• 36:17
  just losing his face, it's good that it's his face.
• 36:19
  It's like it just means his identity is completely gone now,
• 36:22
  you know? Well, any tweets?
• 36:29
  Sorry. Oh, there's lots.
• 36:34
  It's been. Free for free with the
• 36:35
  cliffhangers. Well, I think the Hinchcliffe
• 36:39
  era is, is one of the golden ages of great cliffhangers.
• 36:44
  And I think it's again, something they talk about where
• 36:46
  they say they wanted to really push the cliffhanger because
• 36:49
  that was the that was the key to getting the audience back next
• 36:53
  week, because you'd have it for a week and discuss it and.
• 36:58
  If that's the golden age, what's the sickly brown age of
• 37:01
  cliffhangers? You know all the the weak turds.
• 37:05
  Well, I think it might be the Colin Baker era I.
• 37:09
  Think there's some good ones there though.
• 37:10
  There's. Some good ones, but there's a
• 37:12
  lot of close up on the Doctor. I think it might be Davidson's.
• 37:17
  That would be the end of me as a Time Lord.
• 37:20
  Not again. You see, I loved that as a kid
• 37:25
  because I'd remembered for to Doomsday.
• 37:27
  I thought that was brilliant that the Doctor remembered that
• 37:29
  he'd nearly had his head chopped off a couple of weeks before.
• 37:33
  Oh, because it was so meta. Yeah.
• 37:35
  That was before meta was a word though, wasn't it?
• 37:37
  Yeah, and I was sick, so I didn't understand that it was
• 37:41
  just a nice it made me made me smile that he'd remembered that.
• 37:45
  So Doctor Oh asks how many were in does it take to change a
• 37:50
  light bulb? You mean how many words?
• 37:55
  Yes. Just one.
• 38:00
  Those mandibles are very adept. Yeah, and would you have one as
• 38:04
  a pet? My wrath.
• 38:07
  Would do the way he's collecting the bugs that come into this
• 38:10
  house. I personally know because I
• 38:13
  couldn't handle the slug. You know the the grub stage.
• 38:19
  Anthony Carroll says do you feel sorry for the Wiran?
• 38:24
  I mean, they're obeying instincts.
• 38:29
  They want to bring down the last of humanity.
• 38:31
  I don't feel too sorry for them, but I think if Chris Reckless
• 38:35
  and Dr. there he'd make a case that the Wiran are as deserving
• 38:40
  an existence as the human race. Absolutely.
• 38:43
  And plutocrat, who apparently is, Lewis Baston says.
• 38:48
  The Wiran are objectively the good guys, aren't they?
• 38:52
  They're desperate genocide survivors confronting fascism
• 38:55
  using the splending method afforded to them by the presence
• 38:59
  of an all you can eat buffet of eugenicists.
• 39:03
  That is a brilliant reading of this story.
• 39:05
  I wouldn't have thought of that. Well done.
• 39:09
  That's such a great reading, and it could have been Elizabeth
• 39:11
  Sandifer that wrote that one it. Could have been, couldn't it?
• 39:14
  That that's yeah, right. That's that's.
• 39:16
  Great. Words.
• 39:19
  We'll go with that then, that that dastardly villain the
• 39:21
  Doctor is about to thwart the worms plans.
• 39:27
  And one oddity, Vyra claims that they don't understand slang.
• 39:32
  Then out pops Rogan, chatting like a 1970s Playboy.
• 39:37
  Says Lord Steerforth again. I like that.
• 39:40
  In a script that is sort of very consistently excellent, that is
• 39:44
  a bit of a jarring aberration. It is, but I think that it's the
• 39:49
  way that homes delineates maybe the levels of people who were
• 39:54
  who have been saved and you need your engineers and engineers are
• 39:58
  always down to earth, salt of the earth bit common.
• 40:02
  He's so good at giving us a class system.
• 40:05
  It is a class system isn't it? And Rogan would have has lots of
• 40:09
  technical skill, but he's probably a bit looked down on by
• 40:11
  Noah and Vyra really. But she comes to recognise his
• 40:15
  worth through this next episode. So.
• 40:17
  But. You said that bringing together
• 40:19
  the classes, so it's like, I don't know the underground
• 40:24
  dwellers in the and the collector or I don't know
• 40:29
  Stotts, the gun runner working for Morgas.
• 40:34
  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
• 40:35
  And it's that juxtaposition of people who shouldn't be working
• 40:38
  together. I.
• 40:39
  Feel, I feel. And then you get.
• 40:40
  Character drama, you know? Psy with these big words.
• 40:44
  I know, right?