Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Jim Oostdyk on the Adventure of Business, Family, and History

Transcript

Jim Oostdyk on the Adventure of Business, Family, and History · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: host Scott Brady, and I am here with Jim Osdike. Now,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Jim has been a good friend of mine for a
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: very long time, and he is the founder, chairman, president.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: He runs Okay for well Drive. But he's not just
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: operated in that capacity within our industry. He's a big
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: champion of tread Lightley and those other organizations that really
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: help keep our trails open. And he's done so much
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: to bring in new products into our country from overseas,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: from Africa, et cetera. I mean, you've even got a
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: great story that we'll go into him. He actually operated
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: the first air locker in the United States.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: So Jim's been.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Around forty years now, right, forty seven Well, so thank
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: you so much for being on the podcast.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me, Scott.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so forty seven years is a long time. But
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: I think one of the things that I've really enjoyed
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: our time together for the last week, where we've we
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: just spent hours in the car catching up on each
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: other's lives. And your story of getting started is so
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: inspirational and I think it's a story that everybody needs
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: to hear. About how important it is to pursue not
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: only your dreams, but something that you're good at, something
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: that you really feel a passion behind. So let's go
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: back in the time machine to how you ended up
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: starting your business and that very cool little gas station
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: that started. Okay for driving you and I drove by
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: it the other day, but let's go back to where
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: that story started.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, nineteen seventy nine, June got out of high school
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: with absolutely no direction. Just knew I liked cars and
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: I was really into the outdoors. So I went backpacking
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: for two weeks to try to figure out what I
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: was going to do, and came back and told my
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: father that I'm probably going to join the military. My
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: father was in the Middle Military. He wasn't too fond
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: of it and said he didn't want me to go.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: So I said, well, I don't know what else to do.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: He said, Hey, there's this little two bay garage for
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: rent three hundred bucks a month. You've been working all
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: through high school. You have some money, He said, start
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: your own business. My father was an entrepreneur, sold his
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: business when I was six, and then mentored people to
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: start gas stations for an oil company. So he was
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: very instrumental helping me, helping my brother, who was very
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: much like me, you know, get started. I opened this
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: two bay garage and trying to find my way what
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: to do there too, selling some gas, which I hated
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: pumping gas. You know, you're going out in the rain.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Some buddy's there and they hand you five dollars worth
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: of gas in the port rain. I was like, I
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: can't do this all my life.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: So I was trying to find my way, and I
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: had a Mustang. A couple months into business, I realized
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: I had no more cash and my father said, get
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: rid of your car. I'm like, no, I'm not getting
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: rid of my car. He said, do you want to
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: be in business or do you want a fast car?
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: What do you want? So had too many speeding tickets too,
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: So sold the car, bought a Jeep, and that's where
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: the four wheel drive thing came about.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: There's a there's a great photograph in your new shop,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: which we'll talk about a little bit later, but it
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: shows that original garage and it shows that beautiful white
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Mustang parked next to it. And I'm sure that that
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: was very difficult. I mean, that's the reality of being
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: an entrepreneur. It's the reality of really going after something
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: that you want to achieve is you got to sacrifice
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: other things in order to be able to achieve that.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: So I'm sure that that was a tough moment. Oh terrible.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: I basically cried. Yeah, when that car went went out
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: of parking lot. Yeah, it was like I bought that
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: car when I was fourteen. I think it was my
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: sisters and my brothers, and then we were going to
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: sell it because it was I had rust and stuff,
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: and my dad gave me a deal on it. But
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: I had to fix it and learned how to braze
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: quarter panels in the car with some neighbors and a
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: neighbor friend painted it for us, and yeah it must inconvertible.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: So cool.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah what seventeen year old boy? Yeah that life was good. Yeah,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: life was good. You ended up with another convertible. You know,
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: you bought a jeep and then you stopped getting speeding tickets.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: But you told me the story about you know, coming
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: around that corner and you know nearly you know, ended
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: the story right there.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: What happened with the jeep. Yeah, so that jeep I
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: had to because I was eighteen. The oil company wouldn't
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: take my check, made me certify it. So I use
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: the guy that delivered the gas would watch the gas
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: pumps in the business and I'd get in my jeep
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: and zip up to the bank and cash or get
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: the check certified. So I'm flying up to the bank
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: with this little four cylinder jeep with eight and three
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: quarter inch drum brakes all the way around. And the
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: guy in front of me stopped short and it was
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: hit a car head on. Hit him or try to
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: throw it into a parking lot. So he threw it
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: sideways into a parking lot. And still remember the pothole.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: As soon as I hit that pothole, rolled it should
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: have died. But no seatbelts were even into jeep. The
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: passenger seat was that you could flip them and pull
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: them right out. So all this stuff is bouncing around,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: you know, as I rolled and cut my arm up,
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: cut my head up. Ambulance comes. Ambulance still went to
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: the bank, certified the check, took it back to the
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: gas station for us, and then yeah, it was crazy.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: That's an incredible story.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: And we were driving, I mean, we spent so much time,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: you know, driving these back roads and through these little
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: towns where I was able to see that original gas
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: station and I was able to see that corner you
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: know where you roll the jeep, and you know, you
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: showed me like where you ended up right against this
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: embankment and everything like that. I mean, it's you know
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: sometimes in life, it's those crazy turn of events that
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: you think that life is over, that you know, this
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: is going to be the end of my business, or
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: tone to be in close to total the jeep. But
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: it was because of that accident that you actually decided
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: to start to work.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: On the jeep, right, yeah, yeah, that accident. You know,
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: like you said, bad things become good things for you.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: So that jeep no insurance on it, so just had
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: you know, basic liability. So I had to bring it in.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: Now it's got no wheels, so I I stripped the
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: old rusty body off of it, looked at it. The
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: frame was good, axles were good, and there was at
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: that time the jeeps were pretty common. People were fixing them.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: There was a guy in Pennsylvania that made fiberglass bodies,
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: so I'm like, that's perfect. I ran out there and
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: got one of those, put that on it, put it
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: all back together, change the motor. Why I was at
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: it because the four cylinder wasn't big enough. Yeah, we
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: talked about that story. I had to put a warn
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: overdrive in it, V six in it. And as I
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: was building that, I saw an opportunity because people would
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: say it and ask me what it was. So I
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: would tell them, you know, it's an old jeep. I'm
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: redoing it and putting suspension in it. And people said,
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: I have one, can you do mine? And then people
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: with trucks would come in, Hey, if you do jeeps,
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: can you lift the truck? Can you put bigger tires?
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: And we sold tires at the time, so we started
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: selling more of the off roadres some cool things. I
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: was ordering from Acme Truck Parts out of California, which
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: you had heard of, Yeah, totally, and all those old companies,
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: you know. I'd read magazine to see what was new,
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: learned and dealt with some other four World Drive shops
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: in the area to get parts from, and just created
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: started creating a business out of that, and changed the
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: name from Jim's Getty because we sold Getty gas to
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: Okay four World Drive.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: And what was what is what does ok mean in
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: the name, Just like it's okay.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: So that yeah, everybody thinks we're from Oklahoma, which isn't
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: decase of the New Jersey. What are you doing with okay? Uh?
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: In school, my last name is very difficult, starts with
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: an O, nz with a K. And I had a
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: teacher that looked at he said my first name, and
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: he gets to my second or my last name and
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: just said Jim okay. And then all my buddies and
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: stuff started calling me okay. And then also as I
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: was doing business, one of my best friends was into
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: it too. He sold his muscle car and bought a jeep.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: His last name start with a K. Mine was with it. No,
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: we were kind of going to do this okay thing
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: on the side may sure and yeah, we just kind
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: of That name was just always around me, and it stuck. Yeah,
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: it stuck.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: We both started with old CJ five's and I changed
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: out the four cylinder too, and immediately regretted it. Like
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: I told you, I ended up breaking everything else on
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: the jeep and it didn't do any better off road.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: So that was an early lesson for me that you know,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: don't do the horsepower trick. First, get some lockers in there.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: If you really want to go in the back country break.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: A lot of stuff with horse fower. Yeah, I broke.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: I broke a lot of stuff that you sat in
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: various states of repair, a lot more than I drove it.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: But I mean, what a story of persistence though, because
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: starting a business like that, bootstrapping it like you did,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: I mean that is extremely difficult. But you talked a
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: lot about the people that you met along the way
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: that really made it possible. You know, I think back
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: on my business and it would have been impossible for
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: me to be successful without incredible employees and other people
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: that just were interested in what I did and wanted
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: to help. And you talked about some of the other
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: shops in the area. You know, what do you think
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: contributed to that making it through that really tough.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: Startup of a business.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: What were some of the attributes that you look back
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: and say, wow, that really made a difference for me.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. A lot of people liked helping me because I
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: was young. Yeah, yeah, you know, I was, you know,
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: eighteen nineteen, and when they found that out, Hey, this
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: guy's trying to start a business. You know, it's it's
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: pretty endearing, it really is. And I wasn't threatening to
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: their business or that they kind of helped me too
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: out of them. And I try to do that too.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: If I see young people in business, try to encourage them,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: try to you know, support them. But that was a
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: big thing, just getting advice from people, asking questions and
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: then telling me. And you know, being that young at
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: that time, we didn't have Google to fix cars with books.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: So if I didn't have the book, I had to
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: you know, make friends with people on a dealership to
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: to how do I rebuild this transmission, you know, And
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: you know, I was buying the books that I could,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: but just tried to set my network up and then
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: the business part of it. I wanted to set us apart.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: We were in a dumpy two bay garage. We were
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: young kids, like, who's going to give us money? So
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: what once I got that jeep done? I did. I
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: did a Detroit locker in the back and a true
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: track in the front. And that business was next to
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: a stream, and I would put take people with me
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: and I'd go down into the stream under the bridge,
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: which kind of blew their mind time, and then it
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: would come out of that creek on the other side
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: into a field and we had crazy you know, stuff
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: like a little obstacle course, and then I'd come out
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: back through the creek, back up the bank, and people
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: had never seen that before. And I had people coming
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: down just to go for a ride with me because
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: it was such a novelty at the time. But that
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: little ride in my jeep is what so many people
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: were selling their cars buying trucks because now there was
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: stuff to do too. There was racing going on fo
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: WORL drive racing, so all of that kind of was
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: coming together at the same time. Seventy nine eighty right place,
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: at the right time, and the right people you know
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: around me. Oh that's good man.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: I mean it makes I think like even if you
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: go to Australia, you go to an ARB store, a
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: lot of them out front they have these mechanized obstacles
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: where they can make it smooth, and then they had
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: these hydraulic rams and they can actually make severe crossed
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: axle articulation scenarios so that someone can come up with
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: a vehicle with the open difts and it starts to
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: spin or maybe starts in tool drive and then fo
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: whel drive and then four low and then the rear
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: locker comes on and then eventually it can be so
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: extreme that you have to have the front locker to
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: get through it, and they sell a lot of lockers
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: because of that, because it really demonstrates. Ah, I've had
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: that happen before, like on the trail, and I remember
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: my tires spinning, and now they don't spin at all,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: so or spin much less.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: So I think I think that kind of demonstration of
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: performance is always so important.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: One of the things that I've really noticed with you
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: guys is I think taking the risk on big objectives,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: on saying, hey, I'm gonna I'm going to bring in
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: an entire line of roof tents, or I'm going to
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: partner with a company like Value Cab and we're going
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: to bring in the entire line that they produce and
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: help them make products for the North American mark. It
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: would you say that those exclusive agreements things like that
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: have made a big difference for your.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Business, Yeah, totally, they've They've We've always been looking, you know,
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: we got When you're into your hobby, you're always looking
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: for how it can be better, and you're looking for
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: brands that are out there. When I started traveling, getting
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: out of the US and looking at other countries. One
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: common denominator was every country I went to, no matter
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: how poor it was, they had four world drives and
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: I almost always saw an ARB sign in every continent
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: or country. And then they always had stuff that was
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: unique to the US, more durable, more utilitarian. So that
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: really I built up an appetite for that. And then Rin,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: my oldest son, I would take him with me, and
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: he had that same passion, and we'd always try to
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: find a local off road shop, sure Mexico or South America, Yeah,
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: and see what's cool. And then when we found something cool,
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: we wanted to bring it back to the US, make
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: sure we could market it correctly here. If it didn't
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: fit our vehicles, which are different, how do we get it,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: you know, to work in our vehicles. Yeah, And we've
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: always had that appetite for something new and better, and
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: you guys have done a great job of that.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, and in speaking of, you know, helping out
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: young people, I think that's one of the coolest things
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: about what you're doing is you get to work with
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: your son every day, and now you get to work
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: with your daughter as well. But you know, Rin has
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: really become, you know, a recognized expert in the industry,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: particularly around overlanding, very much so around the new grenadier.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Tell me how that.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Experience is going for you. What what are you learning
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: about yourself working with.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Your kids, working with your kid You know, when when
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: you're operating on a shoestring budget and you're working your
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: tail off so many hours, you know you're you've got
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: some good people working for you, and you've got to
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: pay him well to keep them. You're always wishing you
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: could clone yourself, and it's kind of rin Is like
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: my clone. I feel having him, and I've got tremendous staff.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: I've got some guys with me forty Scott's been with
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: me forty six years, Mike's forty years, Dave's forty years,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Steve's I think thirty five. Most all of our management
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: team we've been working together for a long time. But
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: rin Is, he's so much myself, and we we're like
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: best friends. And you guys do a lot together. We do.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: You share the same office. We don't fight, you know,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: we just tease each other when it gets to that point,
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: and we understand each other well. And he's really been
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: taking the reins and he's given me a new desire
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: to get the company rolling again. I've seen it. I've
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: seen it.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think that a lot of times founders,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: they build incredible businesses and the second generation, if you're lucky,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: can at least operate them. It's pretty rare that the
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: second generation can grow them. But because of Rinn and
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: his passion for it, you guys are growing again. And
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: that's pretty neat to see. It's pretty rare, and you
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: can see it in Wren's eyes, like he really loves
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: what he does. He's very meticulous around how he prepares
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: vehicles and that results in.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: I think, a better product.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: And so now he's designing his own products and he's
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: working with GP factor, and you guys are just really
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: doing innovative things that I think help you stand apart
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: in a constantly changing business landscape. I mean, the whole
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: idea of being a retail for drive shop. I don't
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: think it has much utility as it used to. But
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: making your own products, having control over that, you know,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: whole manufacturing process, being able to sell them around the
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: country even to other dealers, that's a huge win.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the biggest change how that's evolved into that
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: and a lot of the good shops really struggle to
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: make a living. You know, the their labor rate they
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: can make money on, but they also have to make
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: it on the parts they sell, as a car dealer does.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Sure so in the expense of doing business today with payroll,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: benefits and just everything else rents, that'll keep you up
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: at night for sure. Definitely. Yeah, the margins are are
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: important to stay in business, and that's really that's why
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: a lot of shops have gone out. They just can't.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: You know, the D two C model has kicked in
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: for most of the manufacturers. And but I think everything changes.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: You know, it's going to change again, so we just
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: have to stay on top of it.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Well, and you guys and you guys are and I
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: can see it. And let's talk a little bit about
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: let's pivot the conversation towards some of your travels.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, you talked.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: About spending weeks in Ghana where you helped school, helped
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: do a bunch of construction on the school, you and
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: your kids. How did that experience change you, because that
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: is that's a very small, very obscure country. Not very
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: many people know about it. You know, I only drove
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: through it a couple months ago and it's it's a
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: very unique place in the world. How did that experience
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: change your relationship with your kids, with you opening yourselves
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: up to travel like that.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So the the Africa trip was I had done
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: some trips with Rin and then my son Matthew, and
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: then my daughter is always hearing all these stories and
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: she's wanting to go. And again with that network of people,
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: I always kept my ears open and would ask people, Hey,
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: we're we love traveling to do you know mission work
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: to help wherever we can go? So I did. I
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: took her to Haiti first, and then the next year
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: we had an opportunity to go to Africa. So I
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: figured I'd like to take all three because I've taken
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: them individually, but let's do all three. So Nagana trip,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: we had an opportunity to go to a little town
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: called Tefla and it was like a river town in
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: the middle of nowhere. And the first night we were there,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: we put my daughter in with some other women in
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: a compound and me and the boys stayed in town.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: And we get into town, Julia's all set up and
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: Julia forgets her inhaler for asthma I Rinn didn't want
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: to go back, so Matt and I walked back, thought
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: we were going to get mugged at night, didn't came back.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: But that those basically my kids got so into all
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: these trips. They didn't want to go to Disney, they
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: didn't want to do anything else. They wanted to travel abroad.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, and it's very adventurous. You know. My wife
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: stayed home and prayed.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: For us, and off we went, and we did some
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: wild stuff and made a difference in people's made a
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: difference in people's lives, and exposed your kids to other cultures,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: and just the realization that despite the fact that you're
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: on an entirely different continent and maybe they believe something
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: different than you do, speak a different language than you do,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: that we're all the same totally, and we all have
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: the same goals and aspirations in our life. And I
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: believe for kids that's it's a critical experience for them
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: to have some perspective.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: I recommend it to everybody. Try to do it with
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: your kids. You know, they come back changed and that
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: you know, we always had a four wheel drive to fix.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: We were there and we learned. We learned so much stuff,
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: you know, with these unique four wheel drive systems and
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: going to little shops and watching guys rebuild an alternator
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: how of just junk parts. Awesome? Yeah, it was awesome. Yeah.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: I mean they're so they're not only innovative, but they're industrious.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: I mean they find a way, they find a way
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: to keep these old vehicles moving and going and repairing else.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It makes a big difference. Repairing tail lights on
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: a barbecue. Yeah, one guy was he was melting plastic
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: to make a new tail light, you know, and Rin
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: and I incredible. Can we film you? Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: And then you guys, you guys have done some trips
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: into Southern Africa as well because of your relationship without
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: UCAB and some of the other companies. But what's been
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: some of your most favorite adventures that you've done in
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Southern Africa?
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, South Africa? Just uh, camping with Ala Cab, going
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: to remote places and just the sites you see. Yeah,
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: we're Rin and I are first time we're camping. We're
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: sitting around a campfire and Jeremy goes, you know, a
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: week ago a kid was sitting around this campfire and
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: was missing, and they found that the hyenas dragged him
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: off and ate them right, ye, perspective, we were kept
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: looking behind us, Yeah and yeah, and how you know
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: it's beautiful down there? About how different it is to
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: it could be dangerous, totally so much fun. Yeah, I'm
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: telling you.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, if any other place I would want to
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: live in the world other than America would be South Africa.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: For sure. I'd leave in a minute.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: I want despite its problems, It's just like for me,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: there's no place like it on the planet for sure.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: One of the things that I really wanted to chat
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: with you about on the Podcas asked, And one of
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: the things that I really admire about you is your
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: love for history and the intention that you put behind
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: it to go and find out information about our founding fathers,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: about innovators within industry, the industries that exist all around
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: where you grew up. And that was part of our
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: driving around over the last week is we'd be going
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: down a road and you'd say, hey, Scott, that's Edison
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: one of Edison's homes. So let's let's talk a little
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: bit about Thomas Edison and his connection in with your
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: community and some of the interesting things that you found
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: out about him.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: And his overland travels. Yeah, just the I grew up
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: right around Edison's concrete factory. It was a banded concrete
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: factory next to railroad tracks that I grew up riding
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: dirt bikes on and my sons grew up driving dirt
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: bikes on. And I knew my grandfather had worked there.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: He left the farm to go work at the concrete plant.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: So I started reading books on Edison. Sure it kind
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: of got into it, like I, you know, you hear
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: of them in high school, but you didn't. I didn't
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: realize how many things he invented, and it just it
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: intrigued me from He's from New Jersey too, So I
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: got to see the Edison Museum, which is a national
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: park now, which is incredible too. And then Jason tells
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: me about this camping thing with the vagabonds, him and
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: Henry Ford, Harvey Firestone, John Burrows yep. And I'm like, what,
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that. Jason gave me the book, read
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: the book, and here we are, you know, sitting in
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: a historic building that these guys traveled all the way
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: down and camped at. So so cool.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, one of the things that I noticed from
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: the photos that you showed me a the Edison Museum
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: is you know the chairs that they used for camping,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: they look exactly like the chairs that we use today.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: They're like a wooden butter flight chair. Yeah, like I mean,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: and you know the story of you know, those gentlemen,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: those incredible leaders in industry.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: You know, they all had to get away.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: From the office and go do something fun and it
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: probably gave him all kinds of great ideas and gave
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: them a little mental reset and to work with other
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: people that they cared about.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: But to jump in a couple model ts.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Just like we do today, I mean, they they had
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: to pick up and they had like a canopy over
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: the back of one of them, and you know they
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: had one of them that had a refrigerator in it
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: because it was Thomas Edison. He brought a battery and
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: l camp lights, right yeah, yeah, So like we're here
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: in West Virginia, and I suspect that when they kicked
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: those lights on, everyone in the area none of them
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: had lights. And to see portable lights and batteries, it
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: had to have felt like the first time you saw
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Waimo drive by without a driver behind the wheel. I
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: mean that that's mind blowing. Yeah, and it had to
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: have been mind blowing for these people.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah really, and that was the beginning of motorized vehicle travel, Yeah,
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: you know at that time for sure. And how similar
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: it still is today? Not much different.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: I mean when you were showing me some of the
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: things that they brought along and I was looking at
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: some of the old photos, I mean it's kind of
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: the same stuff.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, utensils, it's kind of stuff.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: And they were working on the trucks and they were
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: getting stuck and you know, pulling each other out, and
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: you know, in fact, I think that they came to this,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: you know, Camp Cheat Mountain Lodge where we're at right now.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: They came here just to get a little bit of
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: a break. Yeah, you know, they had had a really
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: hard go and they wanted to kind of reset and
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: you know, get a shower and probably get a warm meal.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: And I mean that's so similar to travelers today totally.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: And Edison even made fun of them for staying at
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: a lodge, which we've all done.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: This content is brought to you by Overland Journal, our
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: premium quality print publication. The magazine was founded in two
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: thousand and six with the goal of providing independent equipment
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: and vehicle reviews along with the most stunning adventures and photography.
• 28:16
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• 28:20
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• 28:55
  Speaker 2: You know, if you got you're up camping, you're starting
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: to smell pretty bad. Yeah, us stay at a hotel.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: I remember, you know front Runner, which has been in
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: our industry for a long time, that one of the
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: guys who founded is Stanley Oemen is his name, and
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: I would I've traveled with him several times and he
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: will not stay in a place. I mean, he could
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: buy the hotel that we would have stayed at, all
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: of them along the way, but he wanted nothing to
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: do with it. It was his one chance to get
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: out in his overland vehicle, and he wanted to camp.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: He wanted to find a camp site, and he didn't
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: care if he hadn't showered in a week.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: And I think that that was a good lesson for
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: me too, is like, be really intentional about this trip
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: for me has been a wonderful reset. It's been I've
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: been more relaxed over the last couple of days. I've
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: intentionally not done as much work. Sat this morning and
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: read a book and just I mean I took a
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: walk back from the fly fishing stuff that I would
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: normally never give myself permission to do. Yeah, it's a
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: good reminder going up, we don't get most of that. Yeah,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: go out, get a little bit of a reset. Yeah,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: reset in there. Yeah for sure.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Sometimes we're driving point to point and making such a
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: tight schedule. Yeah, that you just don't get time to
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: sit around and enjoy each other.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: So talk a little bit about what you've learned about
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Jason and the Mountain State Overland team and and why
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: you work with them, and what are they what are
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: they helping to provide in the East that I think
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: that this can it's helped grow the community. So let's
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: talk a little bit about your relationship with Mountain State Overland,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: what you guys are working on and how you're really
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: helping to enable travel.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: For East Coast folks. That I give written most of
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: that credit for beginning that relationship with Jason, you know,
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: roughly about the same age we started doing some of
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: the events and ran into Jason and then I remember
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: watch some of Jason's early you know YouTube Gridvengures and
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: we've always we get people excited about their new four
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: World Drive and what it can do. Now you've got
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: to get them out using it. So we love the
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: hookup with people, you know like Mountain State, where hey
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: go with these guys and they'll you're going to see
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: what your four World Drive can do. You're gonna camp,
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: You're gonna enjoy it. Mso Mountain State Overland, they've been
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: great at keeping this East Coast area and myself like
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: educating me on West Virginia. I mean, I've been here.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: This is probably my sixth or seventh time now sure,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: and every time it's different and there's still much more
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: to see.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: It wasn't that bad of a drive. I mean, we
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: took our time, stopped for some good barbecue and stuff
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: like that. But like maybe five hours from New Jersey
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: to here.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: Yep. Yeah, nice day trip. It's you know, it's it's
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: scenic along the way. Yeah. And yeah, those guys have
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: been great at you know. So there's some people that
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: have events and people are satisfied. Yeah, you know. So
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: we always try to hook ourselves up with good vendors,
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: not only for the parts that we sell, but the
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: opportunities that we can hook people up with too.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: The quality of this event is it's really exceptional. I mean,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: and you've got professionals coming in from Washington, d C.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: And from the Carolinas. I mean, people coming in from
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: all over the place to get together, and like we
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: all sit family style down this big table, and I've
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: had great conversations with folks. So it's renewed my interest
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: in learning more about the East. And you know, my
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: grandfather grew up in West Virginia. I just don't know
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: anything about where he grew up. I've never been to
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: the places that he would have been as a young man.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: And so I think I think it's easy to say,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: like Utah is I mean, Utah is beautiful, it is.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: But the thing that's different about here is the depth
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: of the history. It's so extensive, the places that you
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: and I. We stopped in this one little town and
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: here was an inn from seventeen thirty eight or thirty nine,
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: I don't remember, like pre revolution.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Bethlem, Pa. Yeah, pre Bethlin, far before the Revolution. Incredible.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: And then you and I we got to take a
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: walk around Bethlehem Steel and see the size of that
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: operation and that it ran for one hundred plus years.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: I mean that's incredible. Yeah, that's some incredible pieces of
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: American history. Yeah, seeing those sites and spending time with people.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: Last weekend, I had a group.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: We had a trucks and coffee, and I took a
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: group up to Anthracite Outdoor Adventure Area in Pennsylvania, another
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: awesome place. The state of Pennsylvania actually took all this
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: old coal mining land and it's turned in their recreational
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: off roading. And I'm showing these people some of these
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: really cool geological sites and I said, you know, we
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: live at the best time you could ever live. Yeah,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: our forefathers were here busting their butts digging coal out
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: of the earth, breathing that dust and dirt, and here
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: we are driving on it with four world drive vehicles like,
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: how cool is that?
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: And it is it's also I mean you've seen it
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: over forty seven years, but it also feels like, you know,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: we're in a golden era of forward driving the options
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: that are coming out of the factory right now, with
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: how capable these vehicles are. I mean, the fact that
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: something like the Grenadier even exists. It's an entire car
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: company that makes cars just for us. Yeah, just for
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: vehicle based travelers. I mean it's I mean, they're not
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: meant to be rock crawlers. They're literally meant to be
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: travel vehicles.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: They're made just for that. And I mean, how lucky
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: are we.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: If you had a car with a limited slip you
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: felt like you were you had it going on as
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: an operator, I mean in the seventies, like you had
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: you had Posi traction, Oh yeah, had Pozzi.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a story my dad having a Posy traction station
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: wagon trying to get up a snow hill in the winter.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: And now we have push button lockers front and back.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: It's with traction control. It's crazy. It's it's absolutely crazy.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean one of the things that we can
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: learn from you on in this podcast, and I'd love
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts. Jim Is I mean again, you've
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: been doing this for forty seven years. You've four wheeled
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: around the world. You've made your profession out of it.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: You know, if someone is getting new coming in new
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: to for driving, backcountry travel and overlanding, what would you
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: say or the or the first three, four or five
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: things that they need to be paying attention to. Like
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: let's say they come in with a new Tacoma. What
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: are you gonna what are you going to talk them
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: through to help them know what really needs to be
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: paying attention to on the vehicle.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we are sales staff. We've really worked on this
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: for years, like trying to You've got to qualify the
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: customer to make sure we're building out this vehicle to
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: suit what they do. So you've got to find out
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: what they're doing with it. A four wheel drive is
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: a tool for people to do to make their hobby
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: or outdoor adventure better, just like Edison and Ford they
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: use that model t you know, to get down here.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: We have people that use them for work. We have
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: people that use them for play, you know, whether it
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: be fishing, hunting, just off roading, yep camping. Most people
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: today because they're so expensive, want to multipurpose that thing
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: as much as they can. So we want to build
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: it very functional for them, not over build it where
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: it stinks on the road. But you know, if they're
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: going to run the highway speeds at eighty miles an hour,
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: it's got to function good there and be safe as
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: well as get them to the camp or wherever they
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: want to take it off road. And there's a lot
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: of trade offs there, so we have to really understand
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: what the customer wants to do with it. A lot
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: of them don't even know what they want to do
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: with it. They just bought this thing because you know,
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: they maybe they hit an age in life or they
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: got some money and they always wanted one. But then
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: we bring them into the community, and that is probably
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: the thing that I find the most intriguing in this
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: business is the community building. You look at the friendships
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: that are developing here. Sure some are old, some are new.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: We've seen marriages, I've seen I got three generations of
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: customers where the grandpa and me built vehicles together and
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: his kid and his kid. So it's generational and it
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: keeps that family together, you know. So there's so many
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: variables to it, but that foural drive is such an
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: essential tool. I never realized at it as I was
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: getting into it, you know, the community building aspect of it,
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: And that's also.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: That's a great point because it gives gives the customer
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to see what works and what doesn't work
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: in the field. You can talk to other people that
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: have maybe said, you know, like I was talking with
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: one of.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: The guys this morning. He's like, oh, actually, this rack
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: isn't really great for me. I need something different.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and you know, if he's sharing that
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: with someone else, it might save them a purchase of like, oh,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: I've got the same issue where I need something a
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: little bit different. That makes a lot of sense to
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: get the customer plugged in with the community first, and
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: then what would be next after they've gotten plugged in
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: with the community. What do you normally like if you
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: think about someone who wants to they pick up a
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: new Grenadier and they want to drive it all the
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: way down to Panama.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: You guys build a lot of expedition trucks.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: What are what do you find are the things that
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: people should really be paying attention to that helps them
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: have a safer, more capable vehicle.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Just some of our customers want to overbuild a vehicle.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: They want every gadget, every every tool that you could
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: think of, and then they overload it, have too much,
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: and then it becomes a problem. We found we have
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: a lot of customers that just and partly myself and
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: my sons this way. We love to build stuff. Once
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: we're done with a project, we think of ways to
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: change it again or build another project that is your business.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: You have an excuse, Yeah, we do, and we have
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: a lot of customers like that too. The build process
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: of it is fun, and you want to make it fun.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: If you're going to build your house or remodel your house,
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: you want to make it fun. You want it to
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: be yours. You want to have input to it. And
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: we love customers that understand what they have to they
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: know how to use it, because if you're alone and
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: something breaks, you want to have a basic understanding of it.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: It could cost you your life if you don't know
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: how to get get your vehicle started or get it
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: unstuck or whatever.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: Probably even more of a reason not to overcomplicate or
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: overbuild the vehicle.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: Exactly, you've got to be able to service it in
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: the field.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: And if you take a vehicle like a Grenadier, which
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: is you know, it's sold in fifty four countries.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: But if you've got if you.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Completely replaced some critical component of it, where are you
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: going to find spares? Like you can chip in a
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: stock something or other. But if it's been modified and
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: the stock part no longer fits, that can be a
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: real problem.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah for sure. Yeah. No, I mean it seems like, you.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Know, one of the stories that you've told me that
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: I love was, you know, you were the first shop
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: to install an air locker in the US, And like,
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: just tell that story because I think it's so neat.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The guy calls up, I have the I was
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: in Australia. I got this really cool locker and I'd
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: like to know if you guys would be interested in
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: installing it for us. That guy's name is Jim Jackson.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: He was in New Hampshire. He comes down with a
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Ford either I think it was an F one point fifty,
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: like nineteen eighty nine, and we put as a Ford
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: eight point eight differential and we get this thing. We
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: open it up. There's an air compressor, there's a differential,
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: like what is this thing? You know, you had a
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: carrier bearing with a copper line coming out that fed
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: the air that engaged a locker. So we're like this,
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: if this thing works, is amazing. So we hooked it
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: all up for him, put it all on, and I
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: still remember it was across from our shop. There was
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: a big field and a gas pipeline that goes up
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: the mountain and Jim. We get it all done for
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: Jim and he gets in. He goes, let's go see
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: if this thing works. Yeah, we go right to that
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: pipe line and starts slipping. He hits the button, Boom, engages,
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: incredible and up it goes. So that became our relationship
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: with ARB. They were Jim eventually moved the business over
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: to Seattle, much more conducive for importing parts from Australia. Sure,
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: and we've installed hundreds of these air lockers over the years.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: And I have a jeep that's had two of a
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: minute for probably thirty years now. Yeah.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: I mean AARB just celebrated their fiftieth anniversary last year
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: and you're a couple of years away from celebrating the
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: fiftieth of OK World, right, which is awesome.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: We're getting there. Yeah, I mean, if I make it,
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: you'll make it. You'll make it.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: And we got we gotta make sure we fill people
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: in on whatever cool plans you've got, hopefully some big
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: adventure that ren and you get to do for the fifty.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: But a person like Jim Jackson, I mean, the people
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: that you've helped come into this industry. You know, Overland
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Journal wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Arb. Arb took
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: a risk on us, Lisa Wood and Chris Wood and
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: Jim Jackson. You know, I came in with the concept
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: of Overland Journal, and they just said, Scott, we believe
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: in what you do and we want to help you.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: They signed up for an ad campaign before there was
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: even a magazine. And if it wasn't for risks like
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: that that they took on me, I wouldn't have had
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: the career that I got to enjoy. So as an industry,
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: we've got to remember constantly. But like, let's be looking
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: for great people that we can do long term business
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: with and it will change all of our lives for
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: the better.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: I think, Yeah, we're all in it together, you know, Like, yeah,
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: with those names you mentioned were instrumental in helping me
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: as well. Yep, you know. And then what you've done,
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: you know with Overland Journal Expedition Portal was so instrumental
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: and taking the foal drive industry, which a lot of
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: people look down on. Now when I tell people what
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: I do, they get it. Years ago, I'd walk into
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: a bank to try to get money and hey, I
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: got a four world drive business, Like, we're not giving
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: you any what is that? But now people understand what
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: it is, and it's amazing what all those good people
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: have brought, you know to the industry. Yeah, we're all
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: pretty lucky.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: And then you got you know, outfitters and guides like
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: you know, Mountain State, and you got folks that are
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: doing great training, you know, like overland experts back East.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: You know, you've got more and more involvement with tread
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: Lightley And I think there was another tell me about
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: what Nora is.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: Nora is a really cool off road park in New York. Ellenville,
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: New York, about one hundred miles from US and probably
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: even a little less than that from New York City.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: Scott Traeger, who started that, became a good friend. I
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: guided him at the Catskill Jeep jamboree. He had his
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: three I think it was him, his wife and three
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: kids and a TJ. He's a he worked for Bloomberg
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: in New York. Never off roaded, just knew he wanted
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: to get out with his family and do something outdoors.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: And Scott went all in man after that event. We
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: built his TJ up for him and he got into
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: it more and more, got involved with clubs. Told me
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: he's going to buy this land in Ellenville, New York
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: and start his own off road park and quit his job.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: I'm like, what amazing he did. And yeah, he sold
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: his house and moved up there and his wife is
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: awesome and she supported him through all that and now
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: his kids are running it with him and it's it's
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: just a great thing. And they started doing this limited
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: mobility course for people that they are paralyzed and taking
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: them out veterans and just working with some homes that
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: support those people and getting them out doors and little
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: carts that he also rents and sells, and some go
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: off road and off road vehicles and some use those
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: carts just to get outside. That's right. So he's got
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: a five oh one C three now and awesome. Yeah,
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: So there's so many things in all these different communities,
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: not only in our area but throughout the whole country,
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: which is awesome. And I remember when we were at
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: your shop out front. You know, there was a TRX
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: that you guys had helped modify and adjust with the
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: lift mechanism for someone that's a paraplegic that has limited
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: ability to control the vehicle. But because there's so many
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: advanced tools now he's actually able to drive his TRX
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: around and enjoy being in the back country, which would
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: have been very, very difficult, you know, with like his
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: advanced conditions even twenty years ago. Yeah. Yeah, we love
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: doing that for people like that customer Dominic Metimetic Car show.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: He had a motorcycle accident, paralyzed you know, neck down.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: Then it has one arm, you know, use that he
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: can so he can drive, gets in his wheelchair, the
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: side of the TRX goes up, the wheelchair I think,
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: ramp comes down, puts him in and off he goes
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: in a TRX, which is great, so cool, great looking
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: truck and he yeah, he's so excited. You know, we're
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: building it out with the suspension, entire and wheel package
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: that he wants and he's going to go up to
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: Nora and have some fun with it too. So things
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: like that are great.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it I think it's an important reminder that that
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of adventure to be had back east.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of great folks. There's really there's you know,
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: there's excellent shops out here like yours and Mainline and
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: others that are just doing really great work out east
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: and helping people build their vehicles not only for exploring here,
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: but you know, he was just talking with one of
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: the ten Dees this morning and he's so excited to take.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: His Tacoma all the way to Baja.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, so people are you know that are living
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: back here, and we've seen our community grow out here
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: more and more. The number of subscribers in New York
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: and the surrounding states continues to grow. So it's clear
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: that you guys are doing it's making a difference. You're
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: building the community of vehicle based travelers out out east
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: for sure.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, we don't have nearly as much land to
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: play on out here, yeah, but we do have some
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: beautiful places and more things are opening out here, but
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: a lot of our customers will build to go to
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: the west, and it's not like a weekend thing. It's
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: like they're like X over the the big thing.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's right exactly. It's the big thing for them
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: to go do, to go do for the year for sure.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: Let me just kind of wrap things up with this
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: last question. If you were to give any advice to
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: that eighteen nineteen year old self, for anyone that's listening,
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: that's getting ready to start a life of love for
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: vehicles and working on what advice would you give to
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: that younger self, to a eighteen or nineteen year old
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: that called you up on the phone and said, Jim,
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: what do I do?
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: Man? Yeah, I'm always happy to if any of are
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: out there and ever need advice, happy to give advice
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: to young people that are starting in business. And it's tough,
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: stick it out if you feel it in your heart,
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: just stick it out. You know, there's quotes out there
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: like so many people give up right before the you know,
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: the big break happens. I didn't have like a big break.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: It was like a gradual thing. But my wife, you know,
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: stuck with me through so much of it. We there
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: were times we're rolling change so she could go buy groceries.
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: But we believed in it and stuck it out. So
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: just if you know, put the work into it. Don't
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: think your staff is going to do everything and you're
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: going to sit back and be the boss. Get out,
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: do what you got to do. You know, clean the
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: restrooms if you have to, and show your staff that
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: everybody does everything within the organization too. That's what we do.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: Nobody's too good for anything. Surround yourself with great people.
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: That's what I've been blessed with. You know, my staff,
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: my family. That support system gets you through the tough times.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: And there's going to be tough times there.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: As there always is, and that's that's what doing hard
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: things is what can give you those bigger rewards. You
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: just got to get through that. And your reputation in
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: the industry speaks to that. The number of people in
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: my career that have mentioned you and the quality of
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: you and your family, it's an honor to know you, Jim.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: It's I'm honored to be your friend, and I'm just
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: so great that we get to spend this time together
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: here in West Virginia.
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming to Yeah, absolutely know,
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: it's it's a joy.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: It's been awesome and we really thank you all for listening.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, pursue your dreams is go do those hard things.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: If you want to start your business, you know, reach
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: out to Jim, reach out to me, and you know,
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: you might have to sell the Mustang, but I think
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: It's going to be worth it at the end of
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: the day.