Latest / Modern Sacred: Women's Work / Why Women Feel So Insecure (and the System That Profits From It)
Transcript
- Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ hi everyone. It's Abby and I back today. ⁓ And I wanted to start by we have not recorded the two of us for months now because we went on a recording spree and we got a bunch backlogged and then we have had a bunch of lovely guests. And so today we're like back and I feel like we see each other all the time, but it's like, this is a whole new, a whole. Abby: It's us. Chelsea Henderson: energy that I feel like we haven't had in a while. So I'm excited. Hi. Abby: I'm so excited. Yay! Hello everybody. Hi Chelsea. Chelsea Henderson: Hello, hi sweetheart. All right, so today we're gonna jump in and we're gonna talk about insecurity, kind of basic. ⁓ And we're gonna talk about that as it pertains to being women, that as it pertains to aging in the world as it stands today in our society. ⁓ And then I think kind of what we've talked about is we're gonna dive into some of what how those all tie together in terms of the economics behind it, the kind of continuing oppression that we see in our society, right? Am I kind of touching on all the things that we talked about? ⁓ Abby: Yes. Yes. And you know, you're our design girl and there's a design behind our insecurity. That is what we have. We've learned Chelsea and I through researching this, which this will become likely an ongoing series that we touch on many times. We're going to plan to bring in guests and hopefully find an economist to talk about the design behind women's insecurity and how it runs the economy. Chelsea Henderson: lesson. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. Yes. And this is, yes, I'm the design girl. And also this is a bit of a soapbox for me. It's just bad design. It's bad design. ⁓ and in this case, it's not bad design. It's brilliant design. It's just completely inequitable design, specifically designed to, ⁓ alienate and oppress certain populations. And in this case, I think what you and I are going to talk about is our Abby: Me too. Chelsea Henderson: personal experience with being women in this day and age, in this society, and what this specific design, and I think what we're talking about in that case is capitalism, patriarchy, right? Are kind of too big, are too big ticket items that we like to talk about. Abby: Yep. One hit put on each soap box. Ready to go. Standing firm. Chelsea Henderson: Right? Exactly. Our two soap boxes. Look out guys, we're coming for you. And how those affect us. And then we do want to make this an ongoing series in terms of bringing on other guests to talk about it, talking about it in different contexts, right? I mean, I know, and let's just jump into it. I think you and I have been having this discussion for a couple of months now about ⁓ things like Botox, beauty, like kind of the whole beauty industrial complex, clothing, right? And how we kind of weave together our personal values, like how do we live a quote unquote sustainable modern life in a world that's telling us that we need more and more product just to stay relevant as beings, right? As women and the whole aging process. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: like I started doing Botox I was 30 and did Botox and filler essentially until I was 40. ⁓ And stopped two years ago. ⁓ for a lot of reasons. ⁓ But what I have come across now is that I'm starting to look like a 42-year-old woman. And there's something fundamentally bad and wrong about that that I feel this constant need to correct. And I feel pretty clear that I don't want to go back to injecting dangerous chemicals into my body. I mean, obviously, it's not dangerous in the sense that like, don't think I'm going to get botulism from having Botox injected. well, yeah. And I think there's definitely some, you know, the drooping like eyelid where you look like you had a stroke. I mean, there's some shit that can go wrong with it, but there's shit that can go wrong with everything that we're doing in that sense. Right. I think that it feels dangerous to me more as I look back on it in Abby: I did know a girl who went blind from Botox. It went away, but it lasted months. Chelsea Henderson: in the way that it was feeding into itself. You know, it was not the solution. Like, yes, I had a tight lifted forehead and I had the face that more reflected how my face structurally looked when I was 25. But that was not aligned with all the other things that were growing and changing and evolving in me. So I was in one sense, putting a lot of my money and time, it was painful, you know, all these things into having these things done to myself. And yet in the other sense, I was growing and evolving as a woman into this whole new phase of life where I have other offerings and other interests. And it was kind of holding me back in a sense of like holding me in this place of like of immaturity. And so I think there was like this disconnect with like growing wiser, right? Living longer, growing wiser, having more to offer in a sense of being more and more comfortable with just being maternal and loving and creating space, holding space, and then needing my face to look a certain way. And like, it was just became this really big disconnect. so we've talked a lot about that. Abby: Mmm. Chelsea Henderson: right, in the kind of simplest modern day terms of like, am I going to have a bunch of shit poked into my face? But it goes so much deeper, right? Like, am I going to fully embrace this path, this trajectory of aging, which, you know, means I'm still alive. So that's a real positive. But am I going to really embrace it in a sense of like, what can I offer to my community, to my family, to myself, to my society? Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: from this place instead of getting really stuck on needing these little guys up here to go away and needing this, know, for the audio listeners, I'm pointing to my forehead and my wrinkles and needing my skin to be more, you know, what am I holding onto? Like I'm not 25 anymore. So I think that's led us into a lot of different conversations about what that all means. And there's this Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: There's just so much here, right? I mean, you and I have talked about it in the framework of starting a business that's by women for women, about, you know, really creating robustness around our spiritual selves, our energetic selves, right? This energetic work that we offer, right? So, so I guess I'll stop there and hear what you have to say, but that's kind of where we're starting today. Abby: There's so much, yeah. Hmm Yeah, thanks for sharing your side of the journey and for any listeners who don't know Chelsea and I are about 10 years apart. Is that right? I'm 32. I'll be 33 this year so that is always you just turned 42 so we're like exactly 10 years apart and That's always such an interesting perspective because I'm at the age where I'm like Chelsea Henderson: Almost, pretty much exactly. I'm, I just turned 42. So nine or 10 years. Yeah. Yep. Abby: feeling very pressured to start getting that Botox and you were the age that I am when you started a couple years younger, but like that same kind of age and you know, many of my friends do get Botox and look great and they look so much younger than me and they look vibrant and ⁓ the pressure is there and okay, just for me, so many people told me in my 20s that like the 30s are the best. Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm, yeah. Mine too. Absolutely. Abby: Like you finally stop giving a shit about what other people think about you and you really like settle into your worth and you stop putting up with bullshit. I have found that my thirties have been much harder than my twenties on me personally. I'm two years into it, but I have felt more insecure in my thirties than I have in my like, since I was in middle school, I have had more. Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ interesting. Abby: like body dysmorphia in a way of like looking at my face, looking at my belly, looking at my legs, because I was the stereotypical young, pretty, fit, skinny, white girl. And as I start to age and I start to see like my eyebrows aren't as lifted as they used to be and like I'm seeing very minor changes. My lips are thinning a little bit. They're so minor. Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ Mmm. Abby: But I see them and I look at pictures of myself, you know, when I was in my twenties and I see the difference and I know that I could go down to a medispa, get a little bit of filler, get a little bit of Botox and I could easily get that back and feel more confident. But it's the same questions that you're asking yourself, like to what end and when do I accept the fact that I am of the nature to age just like everything? I don't want to delay that acceptance to another 15, 20 years when I could accept it now and be free from it. And so it feels a little bit like a spiritual battle. Especially when you look at your old dog with the white whiskers or, they do, animals, don't have any awareness of that they're aging. And they don't have the same kind of obsession with staying young and Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Mmm. Yeah. Abby: In many cultures, having a very wrinkled and aged face can be a sign of wisdom. And if anything, that's what all the young people can't wait to get to, is being old and respected. And so I've really been in this place of looking at how much of this is conditioned insecurity and that my husband doesn't struggle with this at all. I mean, he's six years older than me. No, gosh, four years older than me. Sorry, Zach. Chelsea Henderson: Uh-huh. Abby: ⁓ five years older, something like that. I always forget. I think he's five years older. He's 37, I think. and he's got, you know, the crow's feet. He's got some gray hairs and he doesn't even use moisturizer or sunscreen. doesn't cross his mind. And I am like, yeah, they are. Chelsea Henderson: He is 57. Same with my husband. And they're both handsome, by the way. And they're both like appealing. Like the more those things actually create appeal for them. Cause they don't look like little twat 20 year old boys that like no one wants to waste their time on. Sorry, 20 year old boys. Abby: Yes, yeah. And why is that? Exactly. Sorry, yeah, you guys have stuff to offer. You'll get there. But yeah, just like this whole idea of like how much of this is conditioned and if it is conditioned, where is this all coming from? And why are women not allowed to age? And why is staying young and hot like the most important thing to us? And it can be confidence. And I've met women who we both have met recently who are just, they're fucking rocking it. I mean, they look good. They are confident. Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Abby: And they get the Botox and the filler and I'm like, yeah, I want to look like that too. But yeah, where's the line end? And if I start going down that journey, at what point do I say I'm done with the Botox and the filler and now I'm going to age rapidly rather than like letting it happen slowly? So that this is a conversation that I know is happening in between girlfriends everywhere. And if it's not happening between girlfriends, it is being Chelsea Henderson: I love you. Yeah. Abby: a battle waged internally and in silence and in loneliness as we all look in the mirror and feel our self-worth in society's eyes withering away. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Well, so a couple things, think, you know, one thing that came up when you were talking is we're talking all about looking young and not about feeling young, right? There's the vitality, like, one thing that I strive for is the vitality of just feeling really good in my body. And I think that, like so many things in Western culture, it's all about the superficial. You know, I've seen women in the richer areas of Denver who have very, very clearly artificially smooth and plump faces and like hunched backs and they move slow and they don't look healthy or comfortable. Those women are probably not waking up every day and going to yoga and weightlifting so that they can like get up off the floor easily, but they're putting tens of thousands of dollars into a smooth face. So it's like, Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: That drives for me the aspect of the conversation around the commodification of this, right? Like this is a product they're being sold, right? Like look this way because that's all that's important. And that to me speaks to the patriarchy of it all, right? Look this way because that's all we want from you, is to look a certain way and to hold this certain function which is very superficial aesthetic, right? The gifts that women bring. are not important in a purely patriarchal led society, or they're much less important. so that's one thing. And then I think to your point about when does it end, I think the hope is it never ends. I mean, that's the thing about capitalism is that it's a machine that intends never to stop. So for it to not stop, Abby: Yes. always to consume. Chelsea Henderson: It needs all of us to consume as long as possible. And I think that's part of what makes the young and the old, you know, so much less viable to a capitalist machine, especially the old, right? The older you get, those who kind of sink into aging well, in my opinion, just sink into what they love and what feels good to them. And a lot of times that's the really, really simple stuff, right? They're not in their 20s and 30s and Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: even in their 40s and their teens especially, and needing people to see value in them, needing to see value in themselves and not knowing how to cultivate that so they're buying stuff to fill the space, right? So that seems like an obvious connection. It's probably much more obvious than what's really happening. I'm sure it's much more nuanced than that. And someone, you know, with a lot more education in this area could speak to it better than I could. But that feels like part of it to me is it's a dismissal of that because it doesn't You're not buying, right? And so if you're buying into that and you start now, I highly doubt suddenly you're going to be 70 and you're going to feel so different if you've invested the next 40 years of your life into this and buying it and holding onto it. You got to become attached to it, right? I mean, that and that's what I'm experiencing. I did it for 10 years and now I'm not doing it. And I see the difference. I feel the difference. I'm treated differently. And so Abby: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Chelsea Henderson: And a lot of things have happened. mean, I've embraced this gray streak in my hair because honestly, it's easier. Like I have a widow's peak. ⁓ Thank you. I love it too. Abby: And it's, I mean, it's badass. I love it. But I can tell, I mean, I can see how, you know, if it's on you, sometimes it's, you can feel different about it, but I think it's so cool. Chelsea Henderson: Well, it's also gray hair, right? Gray hair at the front of my face. So, you know, if I'm talking to a teenager, they are looking at me like I'm 100 years old because what's the difference? Either I'm young or I'm old and in their eyes I'm old because gray signifies old, right? Like that it's that cut and dry and fine. Like that's okay. If I'm talking to a 15 year old, I hope they see me as old because I'm so far past where they are. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Like I want us to be on different planes. And I think that's another thing that came up for me when you were talking is like, we've all seen the mom out with her daughter and you can totally tell the difference, but you can't see the difference. She's wearing the young clothes. She's got this artificially youthful face. So like, you can't see the difference in them as much, but you know there's a difference there. And for me, I feel sorry for that woman and I feel sorry for the daughter. Abby: Mm. Chelsea Henderson: It's like no one is in their place. Everyone is holding on to something and it doesn't seem like it serves any of them. So I feel like I went all over the place there, but also it's speaking to the same thing that this is being driven not by us and it's really not even for us. It's being done to us. Abby: Yes. Yeah. No, it's not. It can feel like it's for you when you walk out of the Medi Spa and you look younger, tighter, whatever, and you're like, ⁓ I just feel so much more confident. And I feel like my old self and my look in the mirror. feel like the reflection looking back on me is what I see in my head that I should look like and all of those things. But all of that confidence stems from an insecurity. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Abby: or a planted seed of you shouldn't look old, you shouldn't have wrinkles, your face shouldn't sag. All of these shouldn'ts is someone out there telling us how we should think and feel. And it reminds me of the book that we've read that we plan to cover at some point during in modern sacred called Made Into Mother by Sarah Durham Wilson. And she talks Chelsea Henderson: Yeah Abby: about this concept of the women's life cycle is, you know, young girl, and then we get into puberty and we go into maiden where we are this young woman. And we go into the mother journey of our life and then finally crone. So there's girl, maiden, mother, crone, four seasons of a woman's life, just like four seasons on the planet. And Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: You know that made in time that is that spring budding flower which we're in right now and in Utah. I they're they're fragrant. They're beautiful. They're plump. They're young. They're fresh. They're bursting with energy there. They seem innocent. It's all of those things. But that petal should give way to a leaf and the leaf is the summer which is it provides shade for all the cover crop below. Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Abby: and it shades us as we take shelter in a tree and it provides this like covering. And so then we, know, go into fall, which is that crone period where there's this beautiful stripping away of color and you see all these beautiful fall colors and then finally winter, which is death. And we, our society just wants us to all stay plumpy pink petals. Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Abby: and never mature into that mother spirit. And that mother spirit is that, you know, capable, empowered, confident in their skills. it's just, you know, contributing to society. There's so many things there and we get so distracted. I get so distracted on trying to stay a young flower and missing the whole point of my life and all this beautiful stage. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Of course I do too. Yes. Well, because what she talks about that I think is important in what you're saying is that the mother energy and the crone energy would balance this imbalanced patriarchal energy, right? We've talked about this a lot that this is not just men and women. This is not about the bodies. Abby: Yes. Chelsea Henderson: You know, there's plenty of women who embrace patriarchy too. There's plenty of men who don't, right? Like this is more about an energy. And the energy that we're seeing in the last several thousand years is it's a small group of people who hoard all the resources and step upon the backs of others to continue to aggregate more and more unfairly, right? I use the... I like to talk about like if you were in a kindergarten classroom and there was one kid out of 20 who took 90 % of the toys and was like, okay, bitches, good luck with the rest. Like these are mine because I said so and because I managed to get to them first and because I managed to disempower that guy over there to, you know, take any of you down if you try to come at me, right? Like there's this whole story that's being told here over and over and over again throughout human history that we're seeing very pronounced now. that a few thousand people in a world of billions have the majority of the resources and are totally fine to let the rest of us scrap it out with what's left over. And that creates all sorts of problems as we are seeing in the world. And I think that the Krone energy, the mother energy would come into that space and say, this isn't working. This is not fair. It's not right. Abby: Yep. Chelsea Henderson: We are a collective. are pack animals. The way pack animals operate is that we care for one another to care for ourselves. So, you know, I think there is, again, we talk about design, there's a design here that's telling us, no, no, no, stay young, stay plump, stay in that space and do everything you can and feel really bad about yourself. Like you are failing if you don't work hard to stay in that space. Because if you cross over to this other space, you're going to start to question us and work against what we're doing here that's so dysfunctional and unhealthy and doesn't work for the majority. And you're going to start to try to rebalance that, right? And that's what Sarah Durham Wilson talks about is like that it's time for all of us to step out of the immaturity of getting stuck in maiden phase because we're contributing to our own oppression. We are our own perpetrators in that way when we're sitting here going, wish my skin looked like I was 25 again, but I'm 45. Well, just be 45. Like you're getting stuck on the most superficial part of yourself. And listen, I think we both know women who get Botox, who get all sorts of things done and they're fabulous. They're beautiful. They're gorgeous. They, you know, this is not again, this is not, this is systemic. Abby: Yes. p 45 Absolutely. Chelsea Henderson: Right. And so it's more a conversation about the system. Right. If you want to get Botox, get Botox. And I mean that to you, Abby, if you want to get Botox, get Botox. I mean that to me. If I want to get it, get it. It's just another product to buy. We can buy different mascaras. We can buy different massages. We can buy different yoga packages. Like this is the world we live in. There's a lot of options. But I think for us, it's like more having the conversation about what's driving it and what's creating the feeling behind it. Because I think for myself, I will say that there's a lack of alignment when I'm working so hard to increase my consciousness, increase collective consciousness, or expand, probably is a better word, consciousness, and sit more comfortably into who I am outside of just my name and my body and my profession and my... home ownership status and my marriage status and all that, right? Like the who I am in essence could give a fuck about wrinkles on my forehead because it's not about that. Also, I live in the world, right? So like, whatever my essence is inside also needs to have a roof over my head, right? These things kind of, it's always the tension of holding all the things at once. So I feel like it begs saying that like, this is not about those who get Botox and those who don't, it's more about what's driving all of us. Abby: Right. And what system are we and what system are we upholding by doing so, which is something that was really interesting for me to learn. Chelsea and I came across this article at the same time. It just fed it to both of our feeds and we both read it separately. And then we were like, ⁓ I just read this article. I'm like, I read that article. And it was about what's called the she economy, which I had never heard that term before. Chelsea Henderson: to feel so uncomfortable with this process. Yeah. Love, sub, stack. Abby: And for anyone out there who hasn't heard that term, my understanding of it is that a lot of economists are realizing that women drive a large majority of economic spending. spend, we women, spend a lot on, you know, maintaining our appearance, getting your hair cut, dyed, highlighted, getting tan, self-tan, spray tan. Botox filler makeup eyebrow threading eyebrow waxing. I mean the list goes on we get liposuction we get like clothes shoes and bras and Panties and all of those things jewelry and then also in the home We spend a lot of the money that comes into the home whether we make it or our partners make it but we decorate the home furnish it we want to update the Chelsea Henderson: That's not to speak of clothes, shoes, bras. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Abby: Curtains every 10 years, we want to redo the wallpaper. We want new furniture and we're the ones who usually draw that spending, which is the classic. And then the food and it goes on. so, you know, the she economy is that women drive the majority of economic spending, which means that we also drive a lot of capitalism and that the powers that be Chelsea Henderson: The food. the children. Yeah. Abby: have very much realized that they need to target women in order to see higher profits. so that's what they do. They target us and they make us feel, they try to make us feel very insecure. Because first you have to make your consumer aware that they have a problem and then you provide the solution. So, you know, whether that's your Instagram reel of even just influencers at this point, it feels like it's kind of. Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Totally. Right. Abby: a snake eating its own tail, which is what capitalism is, is its constant consumption. So my feed is usually full of women looking perfect. And that makes me feel insecure. And so now it's this thing that's running and they don't even have to do it. They don't even have to influence it anymore. It's running itself where we're making each other feel insecure. And then we buy all this stuff. And really what I took away from that article Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Mm-hmm. No, no, no. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Abby: We will link it in the show notes below if anybody wants to read it. It's a long read, but it's really good. Really good. What I took... She is great. So what I took away from all of that was, whoa, my insecurity is fueling capitalism, which I don't like, and I, you know, all of that. And we have a lot of power, ladies. We have a lot of power. Chelsea Henderson: Yes, it was great. It was great. She's a great writer. We both follow her. She's awesome. Yes, I love that you're saying that. Abby: When it comes to boycotts, when it comes to ⁓ voting with your dollar, women have the advantage for sure. Like 80, I think she said 80 % of economic spending. Don't quote me. Something up there is women. We have the power, ladies. And if we step into that mother and crone spirit and discard some of this just fluff, Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. It was around there. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Abby: young. Again, no shade if you're in that place where you're getting all this stuff done. I still consider it for myself. But that we have a lot of power if we were to step into our fullest mother-crone energy spirit to change the tides of capitalism and to affect major global markets and ⁓ markets in the United States. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Mm. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think something that was really popping out while you were saying that is the fact that also women have always adorned ourselves, right? So there's a lot of... This is a complicated issue. And I think that's why we talk about systemic shift as the most important focus rather than individual. Like this system, this Western, the United States corporations. that exist in our country, prevalently, that are really in our face as Americans are really good at making the individual feel like they own some responsibility here, which in reality, we don't, right? Like I talk about this a lot. The idea of the carbon footprint is like, isn't it convenient for large oil companies if I'm sitting here feeling like a shithead because I flew too many times last year and, you know, I bought too many things on Amazon, it's like, okay, actually, when you do the math, my contribution is so little, it bears not really speaking about and the contribution of these large corporations that have designed this idea of onus on the individual to shift the awareness off of them, because they're the ones. If these corporations made these changes, the Abby: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Chelsea Henderson: the results would be very obvious. We could shift out of a lot of the things we're seeing in terms of the environment, climate change, in terms of resource inequity. A lot of these things are driven by these larger interests. And so it's in their best interest to hire massive marketing teams to make you and I as individuals feel like we're bad humans. because of our personal use, not to say we shouldn't take personal responsibility. If all the people who worked at those corporations took personal responsibility, it would be different. All of us should always be trying to do that, right? It's a constant conversation in my head that I'm having. How can I take responsibility here? Right. I really am. I want to do that. And I wish they would do right. It would make a difference. It's important. But I think that it translates well in this conversation into Abby: Yeah, we all contribute. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: us, we're getting distracted by the shiny thing. So no matter what we're doing to adorn ourselves, I love jewelry. I love clothes. I love, you know, I love to put together outfits. I'm a simple girl. I like a cotton shirt, you know, but I like a certain cotton shirt. I really like the way certain kind of cottons feel on my body, right? I like the way that I can move differently and engage better with my child, with my Abby: Absolutely. Chelsea Henderson: husband with my home when I'm in certain clothing. I like the way certain colors look on me. I think those things are really important because when I was at the lowest of my postpartum depression psychosis journey, I could give a fuck about any of that. And I realized I was so detached from my womanhood, my femininity, that I was like, who cares what I look like? It's all dog shit. It doesn't matter, right? So I think there's like this balance. We can talk about. Abby: Yes. Yeah, yeah. There is a balance. Chelsea Henderson: the corporations, system, we could talk about ourselves. And for us, coming to the table, feeling healthy, vital, beautiful, that's a nuanced journey of our own, and it's important. And I think it's something that we talk about and we encourage in each other. Like, I just got this really cool dry brush for the face to clear the puffiness or whatever. And I'm like, Abby: Yes, it is. Chelsea Henderson: This could be nothing. It's so silly. And also, I love using it. It feels fun. I use my Gua Sha at night. I use my oils. It feels good. I'm putting energy in. Abby: Yeah, it feels good. And I think what you're getting at too is that, and I completely agree, even recently times in my life where I've felt low is like, yeah, I don't care. I just wear dumpy clothes or I don't take care of myself. I have a hard time spending money on myself. that there is, women do adorn ourselves and we are beautiful and we love jewelry and all of those things. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: And I think where the power lies for me as a consumer and for other women out there is to reconnect with our values in our spending. So, you know, buying the organic women-made, women-owned cotton panties from, know, and not going to Victoria's Secret to get three for $5 panties because that system, it's cheap, the clothes don't last, and we are Chelsea Henderson: Mmm, love that. NYAH! Abby: really harming people who are making those clothes, who are poor and polluting the water. So it's taking the money that we already spend on our clothes and our jewelry and our face and our hair and all of that and bringing in our values and shifting them to companies and corporations who are ethical and who are doing it right. And it means that your panties are going to cost $20 a pair. Chelsea Henderson: Hmm... Yeah. Yeah! Yeah, or at least trying to be. Yeah. Abby: they might, know, $15 to $20 a pair. And that's a big difference. $3 for five, three panties for $5 or one pair for 20. That is a values-based decision. I think more women are starting to step into that, especially with like the non-toxic. A lot of women I know at work and other things, they want non-toxic cookware, they want non-toxic panties. And you know, they are very aware of what they're putting in and on their bodies. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm. Abby: and their children and their partners, their food, organic, locally grown, getting a CSA, being part of like you're a local farm. That is, I think, how women can really shift the power that we have in the economy to make a really big impact. Not to say we should stop spending, but we should just be more aware of where we're spending. Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Mmm. Yeah. No, absolutely. I love that you're saying that because I think it goes across, right? Doesn't mean we should stop adorning and making ourselves look and feel beautiful in the way that best presents for us, right? And best kind of creates the feeling for us. But it means we should do so with intention. So whether or not that's, you know, a facial or Botox or a spa day, Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: do the thing that makes you feel good, right? I think that power that you're talking about is so important. It's not drop out. It's not stop, right? We talk about this so much. We're modern sacred, right? We want to bring the sacred into the modern. Neither of us are leaving society. It's not a viable option, right? And not for most of us anyway. So then how do we not just Abby: No. Chelsea Henderson: I love what you said, like how do we hold onto our values? And that is, it takes a little discernment. You know, this is something that you and I are both really conscious of as individuals is the food, right? There's a lot of research coming out now that like the food, right? And this, I mean, this is your wheelhouse, right? There's like digital, the social media, right? These things are designed by people who design gambling. Abby: Yes. Chelsea Henderson: Right? They're designed to be addictive. They're designed food science is them taking something that's supposed to be a basic fuel, nutrients, something that can taste really beautiful, create this experience, have this like tangible, like emotional connection and turn it into something that gives you no nutritional value, but doesn't satiate you and keeps coming back for more. Right? It's a science. It's a product. And those are the things when you hear people talk about like, Abby: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's the whole thing. Chelsea Henderson: shopping the perimeter of the grocery store. The perimeter of the grocery store is your whole foods, typically. And what's in the middle is the stuff that like looks flashy and has a character and has a whole marketing company behind it because it's not actually food. It gives you very little nutritional value. And what we're seeing now is it actually is poisoning you. So that fruity cereal that your kid loves and doesn't fight you on, unfortunately, is giving them very little fuel. Abby: Yes. Chelsea Henderson: to go through their day with and long term is probably giving them some sort of ailment or, you know, cancer, illness, what have you, Autoimmune, yeah. Abby: Yeah, autoimmune disease is hugely related to diet and stress levels. ⁓ Yeah, I mean, you're so right. I've never thought about how an apple doesn't have an ad campaign. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. No, it doesn't, and it's not sexy, right? Like the sexy apple is probably one that is so far gone from the original apple that it's not giving you what you need. So like this has been done in all these areas of our life and look like it's exhausting. Like this is something that you and I have studied. We have based our livelihood around this. So it's not like any of this should be taken lightly. Like, just make these changes easy peasy. If you're like, working and raising kids, you're married, you're trying to keep friendships, like there's a lot going on here. So it's all very exhausting, again, by design. Abby: in. Yeah, it's hard to know like where to put your money. It's hard to know where to put your money when you are on a limited income and you have children that you're supporting or whatever and you're just trying to take care of yourself. going and getting a massage like wherever it's cheapest, you know, maybe it's the place at the mall. What is like a big company. I used to go to this place and Chelsea Henderson: It is. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Abby: Colorado, it was called like Oriental Massage and it's at the mall and it's a bunch of ⁓ Asian people. I hope I'm not offending anybody by how I'm describing this, but I'm just gonna go for it. I mean, very broken English, not much English at all, and they're all just standing in a room. There's no like individual rooms. You just get massaged like there's just rows of tables, but it was cheap. And I recently met someone, his name is Song. Chelsea Henderson: at McInnes. Abby: He's from China. He came here when he was 18 and he was talking about being in the restaurant industry and was human trafficking in so many ways. I he came here legally with all the papers and everything, but in order to have a work visa, I'm going on a tangent guys, but ⁓ in order to have like a work visa, someone had to sign as being like kind of his guardian or like his employer. And so they hired this company to hook him up with a job in the state so that he could get this visa. And it's a... Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: you know, Chinese restaurant and they worked six days a week from open to close. He would also live in the restaurant up above it. Every all of the employees would sleep on the floor and they were worked. Yeah, like 80 plus hours a week. They didn't. He didn't know that you were supposed to get breaks. He didn't know that he wasn't supposed to be working that much. He didn't know that you aren't supposed to be living there and he was not getting paid. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: He was getting paid because he was getting allowed to live there. And like, so I know that I was going to this place to get massages that always gave me the vibe that like, ⁓ is like a human trafficking situation, but it's cheap and I don't have much. And so I'm gonna spend it here as opposed to going to like the local massage place that's gonna be twice as much. So it's. Chelsea Henderson: Right, it's indentured servitude. Yeah. Abby: I say all of that to say that I know it's not easy to decide where to spend your money, but I encourage everyone listening to just start to think about this in your daily life and where can you spend more for the quality good. Maybe it's getting organic oats because those are sprayed with a lot of pesticides if they're not organic or getting organic panties, which last longer. You're going to have them Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Yeah. Abby: you know, way longer, but it's just kind of being aware that we have so much power as women and as consumers to shift the ethics and the values of our nation, which the values that we currently have were shaped by greedy, mostly men trying to take, yeah, take advantage of people. Chelsea Henderson: industrialists? Well, I think, I think to your point, I think that there's specific places where we can make a bigger impact, right? Like, it's really hard. This is why we have these conversations is to just spread this information. Like a lot of people wouldn't think going to a Chinese restaurant, going to a massage parlor in a mall, ⁓ I'm somehow contributing to what is essentially like a form of human trafficking or what is essentially indentured servitude of a modern time, right? Like a lot of people just don't know these things. So I think we have these conversations to expand the knowledge. And then when you're thinking these things through, I think you just start with one thing, you know, like I read this great book in grad school, where this guy tracked products from the inception of the idea, like the idea all the way to the end product. And it was remarkable how Abby: Well... Chelsea Henderson: like he followed a pair of socks, right? And the socks were designed in a, you know, someplace in Los Angeles, and then they went through this entire, and it went global, it was across the world. And when you start to look at, you know, okay, we have to make these socks cost a certain amount to be viable in a competitive marketplace, suddenly you're making a lot of sacrifices to the environment and to humans where these were made essentially by children. for slave wages, like you're talking a couple cents a day, know, a couple dollars a week. Like even in countries where the dollar, our American dollar or whatever their dollars, the rates are different, it's still criminally low, right? The compromises we make to the environment, you know, so I think we start to get into like, this is a much bigger decision than just the underwear and your values. Abby: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: do have to start influencing you there. And for some people, that's just not an option. They're caught up in this system where they're working three jobs for minimum wage, which in this country is not enough to actually hold you above water, hold a family above water. So then, yeah, who gives a shit? Buy the cheapest panties you can find because we just need to cover our butts and keep moving, right? So I think a lot of these conversations are really speaking to those of us who are kind of in that middle range. Abby: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: And we're starting to identify how our values can then be brought to light through these consumer choices. And, you know, it's interesting because I think when you talk about something like food, it's actually economically beneficial to shop the perimeter of the store. That unsexy apple is a lot cheaper than whatever fruit thing that they've created in a Abby: Absolutely. Yes it is. Chelsea Henderson: plastic package that will live for 50 years on a shelf that has a bunch of sugar and coloring and microplastics in it. so you can actually like some of these choices can be economical, but they're more energy. So then your energy costs a certain amount. So I think all of these things. Again, it's so nuanced, right? It's the insecurity that we all have of like wanting to do the right thing, having the bandwidth to do the right thing, having the resources and having the education to do the right thing. I think I know. Abby: I mean, knowing that this is a thing at all. I didn't know about any of this. My husband is very, he's really a values driven person. And when we met, he introduced me to a documentary called The True Cost. And it is a documentary about fast fashion and the true cost behind that three for $5 panties and wear like that, it to have something be that cheap. Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Abby: There is a cost happening somewhere else like you were speaking to Chelsea if someone's not getting paid Some river is getting dumped into with toxins like that pair of panties should be 15 or 20 dollars if everyone's getting paid well And the seeds are grown well, and it's organic and all of that, but I had no idea I no idea I shopped at Victoria's Secret all the time. I would go to the mall. I'd go to hot topic I'd go wherever and just like shop for deals. I'd go to Ross. I had no Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Why wouldn't you? That's... That's the culture! It's there! Abby: concept of this. Why would I? You have to be introduced to it by somebody else. And that somebody else was Zach, my husband, for me. And maybe it's this podcast today for you and you didn't know that there was this whole other system behind the system. And I also wanted to speak back to what you're saying about like, you know, that more middle class, upper class, I, you know, there's also scarcity. Chelsea Henderson: Absolutely. Hmm. Hmm. Abby: So me getting that massage at the parlor, I had tens of thousands of dollars in the bank. And I caught myself just now when I was telling that story, I'm like, well, it's all I had. But the reality is I had more. we have been very conditioned to be afraid of not having enough and to hoard our resources and to... Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. ⁓ okay. Abby: think of just ourselves in that way. So I will go get a cheap pair of panties. I'll go get a cheap massage at a human trafficking place in order to save more money and put it on top of my mountain of money that I have in the bank. And maybe it's not a mountain, but I know like there's just, there's a lot of people out there in this country who do have the wiggle room to spend within their values and to spend more on Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Abby: Ethically made goods and we don't because we're afraid of not having enough and So we hoard it and I'm guilty of this absolutely guilty of this And I just wanted to speak that out. Yeah Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. ⁓ Yes. I many of us are. I love that. And do you think that that I think back to the original kind of entry into this very broad and ranging topic was the insecurity that women hold. And I wonder if that's even more deep for women. I have that scarcity too, where I a lot of times am like, we don't have enough. Holy shit. We don't have enough. I have to buy the three for five because Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: That's how I can save for my family and I'm not worth it anyway, right? Like, who cares? Like, I just need something, so let's go. And I think that I oftentimes do overlook the fact that we own a home and we have a retirement account that's healthy. so we're in a very different position than most people in the world, right? I think that's really hard for a lot of people to consider the concept of like, Abby: Yep. Yep. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Chelsea Henderson: Even within this country, it's so hard for us to recognize how many people are actually going without the basics, right? Not going without getting to choose what kind of product they buy, just going without the basics, going hungry, going without medical care, right? There's some pretty stark differences happening here and some pretty important things for us to consider. And I think that that, again, there's that insecurity of our own value. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: I'm writing our newsletter for this month and our newsletter this month is all about the feeling of having a life that I feel really happy about and I think is beautiful and holding that in this time where people are getting pulled out of their lives and thrown into horrible essentially concentration camps because of, you know, whatever. There's so many issues there and there's... Abby: The color of their skin. Chelsea Henderson: And it's so broad and it's so there's so much shit going on. it's, you know, and and and I think that that speaks back to what you're talking about is like, ⁓ a massage is so indulgent. So I'm not going to go get the nice massage because it's indulgent. And whether or not like for me writing this newsletter, thinking about, that's not I don't deserve to have that because so many don't have it. Right. Abby: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: and having to say, can't help those people if I don't take advantage of the privilege that I have been birthed, I was born into to make this the best that it could be to ripple outward, right? I think that we're living in this time that's so hard to kind of like hold all these things at once. so there's this like, the scarcity feeling again is by design. It is a result of a system like this to make you feel Abby: Yes it is. Chelsea Henderson: Like you've got to do something, be better, buy the thing that makes you better, be prettier, be younger, ⁓ focus in on those products, those commodities, which will make you whole. You know, that's my feeling. I can't celebrate my life because of ice, because of poverty, because of war, you know, like... Abby: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: We're at war with multiple in multiple places around the world. Humans are at war. Like, how could I have a good life? And I think that there's that's again by design is like, yeah, feel bad about it and just keep buying into the system and keep distracted so that you don't stand up and tell those men, those people that war is wrong. This does not serve any of us. This this immigration thing could be handled. Abby: Yes. Chelsea Henderson: Much more gracefully and without physical harm without tearing families apart without killing our own citizens You know, obviously I have a lot of personal feelings about that that I can't hide but Outside of the politics this is driven by the same shit. It's that Don't don't be a wise woman Don't step into that because we this system will break if you all step into that that's why they burned the witches they didn't burn the witches because Abby: Yes. Chelsea Henderson: They were afraid of their magical powers. They burned the witches because they were healing outside of the system that they had built. And so. Yeah. Abby: Yeah, and they're creating their own systems and their own economies. yeah, they're I mean, this is such a deep topic, which is why we said this is going to be an ongoing series because this you know, how women are conditioned to be insecure and how women and men are conditioned to be afraid and to hoard their resources. Greed. I mean, the fact that Elon Musk has as much money as he does and still wants more. If that isn't like Chelsea Henderson: Nah. Yeah. Abby: a disease of insecurity and scarcity that people can have so much and be so consumed with getting more. That is disease. And like, the more I just learn about our country and how it was created, and I'm reading this Western right now called Lonesome Dove, just how we just killed all the buffalo. I mean, this country was built on exploitation and violence. Chelsea Henderson: Yes it is. Yeah. Yes, it was. Yeah. Abby: and those values are still so deep here that we almost don't even see it. And people in Europe and other parts of the world, they see it. They look at America and go, ⁓ my gosh, they're older, they've worked through these things. Chelsea Henderson: because they're older, because they're older, but don't forget those guys were the original colonizers and they weren't even the original colonizers. It's been happening for a very long time. This is the imbalance of that energy that lives in all of us, but more within some than others coming up and being like, we need to take it all or those guys are going to take it. you know, this kind of tribal, you know, it's very innate. Abby: Yes, they were. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: And a lot of us, think, because of the way we evolved, we didn't know that a lot of us existed. But, you know, it's easy for people in Europe to look at us and go, ⁓ stupid Americans, because we're just so young. We're only a few hundred years old. They have a longevity that's allowed them a little bit of frame of reference around what they were doing not that long ago. You know, those guys were out there. We'll take that. That's ours. We like that. That's ours now. Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: because we have more weapons than you and we will just kill all of you if you don't give it to us. I'm sure there's a lot of historians and economists and all that who would love to attack me on my lack of finesse and nuance and detail there and I'm sure that there's a lot that I'm missing but the story overall it's the same fucking thing. Like there's enough here on this planet for all of us and all these restrictions that everybody talks about all the time. Well, economics and this and that and the other. We made that up. We made all of this up. We could do it differently. We just don't want to because someone like Elon Musk has way too much of the resources and gets way too much power because of that. And it is a sickness. You're 100 % right. Someone like him could solve the problems for so many people. If you didn't have the sickness, you would be interested in that. He could still be really wealthy. Abby: Yes. Yeah. ⁓ my god. Chelsea Henderson: and solve the problems of millions of people. To me, that feels amazing. Abby: He could be a healer, but he chooses to be not a healer. He is sick. He's very sick. Yeah. They're very, yep. And that's where women come in. And we are obviously very women focused and you know, we love women here. Um, we've said before, like we love women and men, but women, we have had the right to vote in this country for 105 years. Chelsea Henderson: because he's sick, right? So many of us are sick. And it's not like... Abby: 106 years. So in the grand scheme of things, ⁓ women are kind of just starting to get into the scene. And the fact that we lead many industries, we lead industries in medicine, we lead industries in business, we have the majority of economic spending, we are beginning to step into our power. And that's where our passion with this Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: work that Chelsea and I do is empowered women connected to their values. Even just knowing when you're at the grocery store that you contribute to 80 % of economic spending in the United States, that is power. That is power. And then it makes you aware that every dollar that you spend is a vote for the world that you want to live in. And the more women that we can connect back to their, their values as women, because women are just naturally, because we're not testosterone dominant. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Mmm. Abby: we're naturally more ⁓ collective. Even hormonally, we get more security from being in a collective and being in a group. We think a little bit more about how's this gonna impact everybody? How's this gonna impact Sally down the road? She's a single mom. And we think about all of these things and we're traditionally less non-violent, less violent. And we're starting to step into our power. just, yeah, for anybody listening out here, Chelsea Henderson: Mm. care. Abby: ⁓ I hope this conversation has been enlightening. If you've learned something that you didn't know, or if you have thoughts, or if you are that economist or that ⁓ historian and you're like, ⁓ there's so much more to this that they're not covering, reach out because we'll put you on the podcast. We'll interview you. We want to talk to you. Chelsea Henderson: done. Mm-hmm. Yes, we will. Because there is so much more, right? I mean, we have talked about multiple industries and multiple kind of parts of our existence. And I think that at the end, they really all do tie back. You know, I think that there is a certain insecurity that lives in me that makes me want to hyper focus in the mirror for 45 minutes every night on these stupid wrinkles. Instead of sitting down and meditating and connecting to my highest frequency to try to connect to my neighbor's highest frequency to try to connect to their neighbor's highest frequency to think how can we collectively keep rising up, right? I'm so distracted by this superficial thing because if I get distracted by this, I will go out and buy products that support industry. you know, I think the conversation evolves in like, how can we just kind of again, it's all about the rebalancing. You know, we're not, we're not There is no clear thing here of like, ⁓ just never do this and this will happen. It's all about every day, every time we make a choice, how can we inform ourselves to make that choice just a little bit more aligned with what feels really important to us? And I think that also then drives this kind of question, this kind of introspection about what are your values, right? I think so much of the work you and I have done have driven us into very clear Abby: Absolutely. Chelsea Henderson: awareness around what our values are. And that's something that a lot of people haven't even done. like this is it's just it's so massive. It's so wide. And I think that for us, we're talking about it in terms of like being women in the world and feeling like we have less value, feeling like our offerings are less valid, feeling like we have to fight to even just have an equal. I we've had the right to vote for 105 years, but we're not 50 % of Abby: It's so true, yeah. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: the political power, the political power that makes the decisions that affect all of us, including our bodies, by the way, those men, it's still typically a lot more men, are making decisions about things that affect our bodies alone, right? So there are a lot of things here that are still just so imbalanced that I think that's us having this conversation for that reason, is just driving more this awareness around. Abby: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Hmm? Chelsea Henderson: how can we just take steps toward better balance? And for us, that has been identifying our values and then identifying how we can live aligned with those as much as possible at every step. And this consumer step is one of the biggest, where you spend your money across the board, whether it's on the superficial, whether it's on the adornment, which I think is not necessarily only superficial, but is in that category. Abby: Mm-hmm. It really is. Chelsea Henderson: or whether it's on the food, whether it's on whatever, like how powerful that is, you know? Yeah. Abby: Yeah, so powerful. So much power in our hands to create the world that we want to create. And women, women, we are creators. We literally birth life through our being. And when we are connected with our values and we're empowered, for me personally, it's having other women in my life to bounce things off of, to call when I'm crying, to... Chelsea Henderson: There we are. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Abby: say I'm going to ask for a raise and I'm terrified and get bolstered up by the women in your life, then we are able to make some really big change in the world. And the reason that we have the right to vote is thanks to the suffragettes, the women who picketed the president's office every day, rain or shine, and were arrested and went on hunger strike and were force-fed. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ you treated them like shit. Yeah. Abby: and treated like shit, they won us the right to vote. It was women, which is wild because men are the ones who get, you know, who signed it, obviously, because women couldn't vote, but it was, it was their wives, it was their mothers, it was their daughters who were in their ears saying, I want a voice. And so we really have a lot of power. And I agree with you that I can get, I can get very distracted that 45 minutes in the mirror, Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Abby: even just in my own mind, I could spend that time calling a friend and checking in on her. I could be spending that time, you know, looking up, volunteering, like just different ways that we could change this. We could reroute this ship if we weren't so distracted on our looks. Chelsea Henderson: Absolutely. Yeah. ⁓ And listen, I think that like you take that 45 minutes and you dance or you do some movement, some yoga type of stretching, drop into your body, have sex with your husband or whoever it is that you have sex with. those, that shift in energy is a healing moment that then allows you, like I was saying earlier, that balance of having a, holding a good life in a hard world, right? That allows you to go out into your community. Abby: Yeah. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: and show up better for your family, your friends, people you interact with on a day-to-day basis in your community, which then it's that ripple effect. And I am going to base my whole freaking life on that ripple effect because I am not in a position to make change at a larger level. I'm not the person who's going to run for office. I'm barely the person that's even going to pick it at this point in my life. But I am the person who can make Abby: Me too. Chelsea Henderson: the change with that moment, that shift that like, I'm going to put this energy here to then ripple outward and see that happen there. So I think that that is, it goes a lot further than we think. And then you don't have to feel bogged down with every single choice. It's just, you know, this moment I'm feeling invested. I'm going to make this different choice. You've already set a ripple. Abby: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And if you are someone out there who has affluence, who has money, you have a lot of power with how you choose to spend it. That could be canceling your Amazon account and being willing to pay for shipping because you don't want to support Jeff Bezos and that whole thing. It could be, mean, if you are able and willing, Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm Abby: and feel called to really infuse your values into your decisions and how you spend your money. I mean, there's just a lot of agency there. depending, you know, there's no shade or shame for wherever you're at. But speaking as someone who has money from, you know, working, I don't have, you know, tons of money, but I have enough to not buy at Amazon or I have enough to buy organic. And I'm thankful for that. And I want to create a world. Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Abby: that that is more accessible and that starts by creating the demand for it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's very powerful. Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. And that's the vote you're placing every day, you know? It is. It is. All right. Well, let's keep this conversation going. I think, you know, we went all over the place today and I think this is a great initial discussion to just be like, this is where all these topics lead us to, right? And I know, right? Because then there's... Abby: So it's not so easy to decide if I should get Botox or not because this all goes around in my head and I'm like, I don't know. Why am I? It's not so easy. Chelsea Henderson: Then I'm like, there's a grocery store and I don't even know what's happening. But I think that this, I've said this a lot recently and I'm going to stick to it. This conversation, these conversations, if nothing else, let's just keep having these conversations. Go sit down and pick the brain of somebody that you respect and ask them, you know, what's the thing you've been experiencing insecurity around recently as a woman? You know, go find that other woman in your life who you're like, I love her vibe, I love her energy. I'm gonna talk to her about this and expand the consciousness around this because none of us have the solution. If one of us does and we're holding back, then that's whole other conversation. None of us have a clear solution. So I think it's all about. Abby: Yes. Chelsea Henderson: expanding the consciousness, the awareness, resources, sharing the resources. Women, like you said, Abby, are more collaborative by nature. And I think that collaboration will be one of our paths to our next phase of evolution. Let's all work together and share our gifts because what I'm really great at, you might not be as good at, and then vice versa. And then we can balance each other out and continue to elevate. And I think that's where this is so important. It's just... have the conversation and give each other those little bits of resource, of edification that we can kind of just collectively continue to rise. And I think the system changes from that. We work here locally and this community gets more robust. It's gonna outpour into other communities and then countries and that, it's just, I think there's a lot of power there, so. Abby: There's a lot. Yeah. Well, thank you everyone for listening and for being part of that conversation. ⁓ share this episode with a friend or next time you and a girlfriend are talking about feeling insecure or any of these topics, share the episode and have a conversation about your values and the kind of world that you want to create as women. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. Yes, and we are going to keep having the conversation too. And I think probably break this out into specifics around things that really feel the most powerful and we will go from there and broaden it out from there. So I'm excited to keep it going. Abby: Me too. All right, everybody. Chelsea Henderson: Okay. Until next time. Love you guys. Bye.