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D. Jeremy DeMar | From Rochester Dispatcher to 911 Thought Leader · The Wilmac Wire

• Emily McNulty: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, welcome or welcome back to the Will Mack Wire. Thank you so much for tuning in. Today's guest on the Will Mack Wire is a familiar face to us, both Rochester-wise and 911-wise. We've been running into him on the conference circuit a lot this summer, and it's actually where we originally met him. And every time we do, it's just a wonderful conversation. So needless to say, we're really glad to get him on the show. Today we're sitting down with D. Jeremy Demar, a Rochester native who spent 15 years at Monroe County ECD before going on to lead 911 centers in Springfield, Massachusetts and New Jersey. He's now on the private sector side and a futurist and thought leader in the 911 space where he focuses on AI and G911 and emerging and disruptive technology. He also recently launched his own podcast called Your 911 Future, which I strongly suggest you check out after listening to this episode. We covered a ton with Jeremy as per every episode, but we discussed with him his career journey, what surprised him most going from a public sector to private sector. We discussed AI and 911, which Jeremy speaks on in conferences about often. and what human in the loop versus human on the loop actually means, which was a really interesting conversation and probably could have had its whole own episode, but we'll save that for a future date. We also discussed what Jeremy is trying to build with his podcast and how that his experience in the 911 space has led him to creating this, your 911 future. Like I said, go listen to it wherever you listen to podcasts after this episode. Given that... Jeremy grew up right here in Rochester. There was a little local flavor in there too. So thank you so much to Jeremy for joining us on the Will MacWire. We truly appreciated it and love seeing him at conferences. So I will turn it over to today's episode of the Will MacWire with Jeremy Demar. Okay, we're gonna get things started by introducing our guest. He is a Rochester native who spent 15 years at Monroe County Emergency Communications, working his way up from dispatcher to supervisor. He went on to lead 911 centers in Springfield, Massachusetts, and New Jersey. He's now a futurist and a thought leader in the 911 space, focused on AI, NG911, and emerging technology. If you've attended a public safety conference, you might have heard him speak or saw him work in the expo floor. He's the creator and host of the Your 911 Future podcast. Welcome to the Will MacWire D. Jeremy Damar. Jeremy, thanks for joining us. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Thank you both. I feel like I just saw both I did see I just did see both of you. So yeah, we we've been on that conference Emily McNulty: Yep. Last week, not too long ago. Stephen McDonnell: Okay. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: circuit together. Yes. Emily McNulty: Yeah, it's been it's been a busy summer. We've seen you I think more than we ever had have the past like two months or so. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: It has. It's been good seeing you guys at those shows. It's awesome. Especially on a on a national level. That's definitely a good thing. Emily McNulty: For sure. All right, Jeremy, you know how this goes because I know you're a listener of the podcast. but we're gonna do a brief icebreaker called this or that to get you a little bit more introduced to our guests. So there's three lighthearted prompts, and you can choose either or and then just explain why. Okay, so the first one is Rochester related, garbage plate or Wegman sub. When's the last time you D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Wow. Emily McNulty: had a garbage plate? D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: That's not okay, well I I'm gonna I'm gonna change it up a little bit. me twenty years ago, garbage plate. Me today, Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: I'm I'm doing the Wegman sub all day long. Yeah. 'Cause I got I'm Emily McNulty: I think I'm D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: gonna have to go to bed at some point and I wanna be able Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: to sleep through the night. So yeah. Emily McNulty: Yeah. that's that's for sure. I think I'm Stephen McDonnell: Well. Emily McNulty: in the boat now where garbage plate is no Stephen McDonnell: When is the last time you had a garbage plate? D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: It's it's been a minute. I mean, you know, well, of course we're gonna we're gonna talk about 911. You guys know where ECD is, it's literally across the street from Stephen McDonnell: Right. Right there. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: where they were invented. So but but even then, Emily McNulty: Excuse, yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: I I think people would people suggested at one point, well, you work right across the street, you must eat them all the time. No, no. I mean, I'm already a big guy, I don't need to be any bigger, but yeah, to answer your question, man, it's I bet I've I bet I've done more on the homebrewed side than I have on going to a restaurant because Stephen McDonnell: Yeah, yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: I can kind of tailor how they're made a little bit, but an actual from Rochester, I bet it's been a couple of years, at least. At least. Stephen McDonnell: We actually for telecommunicators week this year, we asked Monroe if we were g delivering a lunch one day and we're like, Do you guys want Tajos? And they're like, No, no, no. Emily McNulty: There I know. Yeah. yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Depend I think I think it probably depends more on which crew's there, but you know you Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: know why a lot of them say that though is because inevitably there will be times when like maybe you were running late for work and I'm I'm I'm going the the E C D route with this. You're running late for work, you didn't have time to bring your lunch, whatever it happens to be. The option, the the the best, the most vi well, maybe Emily McNulty: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: not the best option, but the most viable option is to go across the street. So Stephen McDonnell: Easy. Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: yeah, when it's there all the time for you to say, hey, you want us to bring you plates? No, no. Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Let's do something a little little let's do some Wegman subs. Let's do some Wegman subs Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. Emily McNulty: Yeah. Hey, we we brought we bring Wegman subs in the office a lot, but we Stephen McDonnell: That's popular. Emily McNulty: we've done garbage plates in the past and every time we do it, everyone in the whole afternoon is like, Why did we do this? Or they're like falling asleep at their desk. So D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: E every every time my wife and I are in town we stop at we're we're name dropping here, right? We stop at Costanza's sausage out on Emily McNulty: No. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: out on Basket Road, I think it is in Webster. And I picked up the last time I was there in addition to all the, you know, sausage and that kind of stuff, there was this Rochester hot sauce in there. And I've I in fact I had some of it last night. There's I got this jar of it, I'm like, Yep. It's just nice sometimes to be able to heat that up and and Stephen McDonnell: It is. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: use it yours use it yourself, so it's cool. Emily McNulty: Yeah, wonderful. Well thanks for sharing, Jeremy. next one for you is hosting a podcast or hosting a webinar. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Well, I'm gonna I'm probably gonna have to default the podcast now, right? Because I I wanna Emily McNulty: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: try to I do I do enjoy webinars. I you know, we were talking actually before the recording today and webinars that I've hosted are generally done live, whereas podcast, at least in my experience, nowhere near as experienced as you guys are with it. I'm still very new to that process, but that's the recorded side of it. So I think there's an element of maybe an element of concern and surprise when you're doing a live one versus a recorded format where you can go back and edit out mistakes. So I'll say for the purposes of your question today, I would say the podcast is when I'm leaning more gu really 'cause I'm learning. I'm learning. You guys have already learned a lot. I'm now learning a lot about how to try these to make these a little bit better. So Emily McNulty: Yeah, yeah, I have an idea for you. I'll pitch ya harder afterwards, but we go to a conference and we do a live podcast at the conference. There we go. Baby steps. We'll get through this one first. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Yeah, yeah. Let baby stops, baby stops, baby steps. I'll I'll Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: watch I'll just watch you guys and then I'll say, okay, that I let them work it out and then I'll go do it. Emily McNulty: Yeah, love it. All right. And then last one, speaking at a conference or connecting with your peers in the expo hall. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: speaking, only because Emily McNulty: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: I can I can connect with so many more folks from the nine one one community. I mean my folks I can talk to all the time, whether it be in the you know, in the expo hall or in you know, a teams meeting or something like that, but to really be able to go out and chat with professionals from all over the nine one space, there's no better way to do that than in a speaking session. Emily McNulty: Yeah, I I I love it. I I think after seeing a few of your speaking sessions, just so impressed. And I I am curious if what has been like your biggest audience at at a conference. 'Cause you typically get a full room. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Yeah, I mean there's there's a couple of funny stories where because of timing, who my competition like I it's friendly, right? I call competition, but depending on who I'm I'm speaking aga that didn't sound right. Depending on who is running at the same time as I am speaking, they might have more draw than me. But I I would say my average, depending on the size of the conference. We we did really well at APCO. I did a session on AI there this past week and Man, I wanna say we had like between fifty and fifty-five in that room. It was there was quite a few people in there, but I think a lot of it has to do with topic also, right? So if you're Emily McNulty: Mm-hmm. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: talking about something that's really hot, like recruitment and retention or mental health and wellness, I mean you you might Stephen McDonnell: Yes. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: have more of a draw. The fact that I was talking specifically about AI and and the AI landscape in 911, I I I find, much like you guys probably do, I find that the folks that are coming into that are definitely the folks that are really trying to learn more. about that specific area. And maybe it doesn't maybe it doesn't foster as much of an audience, but the folks that are there are are genuinely pretty engaged. It's good. Emily McNulty: interested. Yeah, for sure. For sure. It's we've talked about it before at conferences, how interesting it is, how the psychology behind like the title of the session, how much that matters. Like it's it's wild. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: And you wouldn't and you wouldn't think so. I mean a lot of t I I think there's a lot of folks, you know, that present that think, hey, I'll just pepper AI and it everybody will show up. No, it has to be it has to be a little more creative. The other side of that though, I've had rooms where I thought it was going to be a good turnout and I had five people show up. And what I've Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: done in situations like that is I'm not going to cancel it. I I literally sat down, we all got around this table and we had a round table session. It was much more intimate, more personal, and we really spent a lot of time. So I can, you know, I can I can take advantage of either opportunity to really explore with folks and kind of see what's going on in their landscape. Stephen McDonnell: Yeah, we we've definitely seen both sides of that. But I also want to ask, I've seen you speak, you're a phenomenal speaker. How long have you been doing it? And obviously you didn't start at where you are now being a phenomenal speaker. Did it take practice? Was it kind of natural repetition? How did you get to where you're at now? D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Well, if my wife were here, she'd probably say all he does is talk and run his mouth. So may maybe maybe to some degree it's natural. I don't know. I do enjoy it. in fact, again, I I know I've shared with with both of you a actually Emily Emily and I were talking about this at Apco, but the whole podcasting side of things for me is much more of a challenge when I'm talking to a camera than when I'm talking to a room with fifty or a hundred people in it. I'm much more comfortable in that setting, which you'd think it would be the polar opposite. But best way to answer your question, I would say probably Probably when I was a like maybe two thousand and nine, two thousand ten is when I first started when Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: I when I moved from dispatcher one at at E C D to dispatcher two and I was you know, I was doing those things and then I started really I was working on things for college and I was doing a variety of different things there and I really started to get more involved with Apco and Nean. I think that Apco and Nean involvement is really what drove me to wanna get out and and just kinda reach out and talk to people about a variety of different topics. So It's yeah, it's been now that I think about it, it's probably been a good fifteen years of of working Stephen McDonnell: Yes. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: in the space and and doing this. But you only you only get better at it by doing it and doing it and doing it. That's why I tell Emily McNulty: More you do it. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: people if you if you're if you're Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: even questioning whether or not you'd be good at it, just just rip the band-aid off and go do it. Just sign up, get in there and I've had people reach out to me. I've encouraged people, I Hey, if you have questions, comments, concerns, if there are things that you're not sure about, reach out to me and let's have a conversation because I'd love seeing other people in the industry get involved in that. I think it's great. Emily McNulty: Yeah, yeah, that's wonderful. And we'll we'll dig into that more, Jeremy, talking about your your podcasts that you recently launched and and that sort of thing. But I I want to start more on your career journey. So for our listeners, like I mentioned in your intro intro, you grew up in Rochester. You're a Rochester Rochester native and you got your start in public safety as a high school senior joining a fire and EMS explorer post. So what kind of drew you into that space? D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: So I think for me and and again, you you had the luxury of me starting my podcast before we actually recorded this one. So you were able to go in and watch some of that. So you've got some intel that probably other folks wouldn't even have, but Emily McNulty: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: I I translate it back to when I I I think I was a junior, I don't know if I was a senior, I think I was still a junior in high school. I s I was working in a movie theater. And actually I can we can talk about Rochester. You guys will be able to relate to this. So now it's an AMC on Empire Boulevard. It used Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: to be a Lowe's back in the day. and I started out there working in the concession stand. I was an usher. I did a bunch of different things. But the fire department I was with, West Webster Fire, they were like one street over. So like Empire Boulevard's here and like you know, the gravel road is right here, it kinda runs behind it. So anytime the department would go anywhere to a call, you know, they're gonna go this direction or to this direction. So I don't know what the percentage is. We'll call it fifty percent to make the numbers. Anytime they'd go to a call, I'd you I'd see trucks rolling down the street. And I remember Even before I was thinking about joining, how much that intrigued me. Like w where are they going? What are they doing? What's happened? And then of course you'd see the the police cars going after that. And you I always found myself compelled with wanting to know where they were going. Now there was a guy that was working at the movie theater with me who was a member of the Explorer Post for Wes Webster at the time. And he used to carry a pager around. Of course, any time these guys went out on a run, his pager, you know, beep, beep, beep, it would go off and you'd hear the broadcast and that just That got me even more interested. I'm like, this is really cool, because now I now I actually know where they're going. there's nothing worse, by the way, than reading something in the paper the day after and and seeing that whoever's reporting on it, it's nothing about it's nothing like what actually happened at the scene. But Stephen McDonnell: What I D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: I remember going up to him and I'm like, hey, you know, what's this thing all about? And he's like, yeah, fire department, explorer post, you join it, and then after a few years, you join as a full out member of the fire department. And after a couple of conversations, he invited me to one of these explorer post meetings. And I went up there and and you see the trucks in the apparatus bay. I mean, it's the first time for me. I think I was really up close and personal with the equipment, the apparatus. You get in this room with other people that are really passionate about public safety, about the fire service, those kind of things. And it just I think it just started blossoming from there. And the minute that I found out how I could get more involved with this, obviously I you had to have your parents sign off on something. I don't think if I was if I was 18. I don't know. I wasn't of age to go in my myself at this point, so I think I still needed to have my parents sign off on it to get me in. But once I was in, it was just the sky's the limit. I was just a sponge. I was soaking it all in. I was wanting to learn more and more about this. And of course the first thing you want to I want to go to the call. I went and they're like, Easy there, Tiger. You gotta actually train up a little Emily McNulty: Mm-hmm. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: bit before you just start showing up on scene. But that I would say Explorer Post with Wes Webster is definitely where that that public safety itch for me first got scratched. Emily McNulty: Right, right. And so th you talked about it, you spent fifteen years at E C D, and started as a dispatcher, you worked your way up to your way up to a supervisor. So what was it like kinda growing through the ranks and at a certain point where you're like, Okay, yeah, I do want to keep growing in in this center? D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Yep. So when I started in it was February of 2003. When I started at ECD, I was hired in as a dispatcher one. It's it's so, by the way, it's so cool talking to the two of you in Rochester. I mean, literally right outside. It was funny. Emily was doing a podcast once and I saw the buildings in the background. I'm like, I feel like I'm at home. I feel like I'm at home. It's kind of cool. Emily McNulty: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: But it it's funny I say that because here we are talking about ECD, which is literally down the street from you guys. But when I Emily McNulty: Mm-hmm. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: started out, it was a dispatcher one police. That's what they were hiring for. I don't remember the exact number of years I was there, five or six or something like that, before I went through that. But I was just excited to be there. at the time my wife and I, we had two kids. I don't think our third one was on the way yet, but I quickly discovered, and we fast forwarded a little bit here in this, but I quickly discovered that I was working career EMS at the time. the unfortunate thing is when you have a a a growing family and an EMS salary to support it, it's not really conducive. It it doesn't really work that way. So that's ultimately what led me to go to take the civil service exam for dispatcher and ultimately what landed me at E C D. Stephen McDonnell: were you EMS in Webster before you came back to D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: I worked volunteer EMS in West Webster because at the time they had two ambulances. I don't think the department still has I think they've disbanded the ambulances. It's now handled separately. But yeah, I that's really where I Stephen McDonnell: That's it D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Emily talked a little bit earlier about high school and those kind of things, but I took my EMT certification while I was in high school. In fact, that's what ultimately gave me the extra credit that I needed to graduate. I was a half sh I was a half credit shy of graduating when I was a senior and found that out when it was too late to do anything about it. And one of the folks that was a high level player, I think with Parrington Ambulance out in Fairport, who was also an administrator in Webster found out about my plight. We had a sit down and he said, Well, if you can manage and pass a three, you know, a a a a three college credit level course with EMT, I think we can give you the half a credit of high school credit. And that's ultimately how I got through high school. EMT saved me in that realm. But yeah I was I was doing EMS, EMT with Wes Webster, and then I would later go on to do it commercially with a couple of different providers in in the county. But at the time, again, going back to what Emily was talking about, as much as I loved EMS, it wasn't really enough money at the time to support a growing family. So I knew I was gonna have to do something else. That's again how I ultimately ended up at ECD. Started out as a dispatcher, did that for or police dispatcher did that for roughly six years. took the promotional exam for dispatcher two, dispatcher two in Rochester, of course, is police fire and EMS. It's all three. did that for a few more years. And I think at that point I had either finished my undergraduate degree and was just getting started in my graduate program. At any point I decided I was going to take the test for supervisor. And that's where I would spend the last wanna say six to seven years of my career with ECD before I would go off and and start running centers. Stephen McDonnell: even going kind of back in between going from all your EMT stuff to communications, how did how did you know that's where you wanted to go? Were you looking at different options at that point? Or did you know, all right, I wanna go in into E C D, I wanna go be in part of the communications? D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: I'm glad you asked that question. And that's it probably good that we're talking about that too. My original plan when I got into the fire department was to be a career firefighter. It was not to go to 911. Never, never was that. in fact, the 911 thing only came into play because it was, you know, it's it's an in it well, now today I would tell you it's directly connected to public safety. Back in the day, I would probably tell you it was an indirect connection. It was something that was closer to the fire service. But yeah, I wanted to be a career firefighter. That was That was why I went. I was going to college at MCC for fire protection technology. A bunch of the guys that were in my class, when I started doing the math on this, it was crazy. I mean, they've already got well over 20 years with Rochester Fire and some other departments there. But that was the road I was going down. I was gonna be a career firefighter. And it wasn't until I had an opportunity with I was a retail manager for a company called Radio Shack. that that was another one that came up in one of my podcasts, but Stephen McDonnell: Okay. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: I I guess I attribute Radio Shack in some ways to doing some good and some bad for him. Well, maybe maybe it's all good, right? Because the Radio Shack really just solidified my interest in technology, especially emerging and disruptive technology for as disruptive as it could have been in the early nineties. but also what it did is I had an opportunity to become a store manager, which was ultimately when I decided I'm gonna I'm gonna bow out. I'm gonna quit school basically. I'm gonna start pursuing this other opportunity with the shack. And you know, I'm still doing my my Wes Webster and my volunteer stuff, but as far as the hard and fast moving towards being a career firefighter, I kind of backburned it at that point. So the ECD piece though, because again, loosely connected, now recognizing of course it's very connected to public safety, because it was there, this going there allowed me to kind of kill two birds with one stone, right? I could stay doing my things with the fire department. I could still get my fix on the EMS side of things. And now I'm still absolutely involved. in all things public safety. So E C D that's kinda how that whole progression worked out. Stephen McDonnell: Out of curiosity, and I should probably know this, it's naive, I know so I grew up in Fairport, I know all that, and I th and D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Mm-hmm. Stephen McDonnell: Pittsford, it's all volunteer. In Rochester, speaking of this very Rochester-centric question, D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Mm-hmm. Stephen McDonnell: what how many of the departments are paid versus volunteer? D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: but I've got there's better people to answer that question than me, especially today. I've been I've been gone since twenty eighteen. I still obviously know a ton of people up there, but quick answer to that one is a lot of the volunteer departments, which are you know, obviously City Rockster paid department. There's also a lot of the suburban departments out there that are a combination of paid and volunteer. Stephen McDonnell: Okay. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: I would I I'm not even sure exactly what that mix is, but I like at one point Wes Webster had they had like a laborer who wasn't a full out, you know. paid firefighter, but it was somebody that could do those kind of duties. West Webster may have, and I hope my if my friends are watching this, sorry guys, I'm I'm maybe Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: I'm putting this out a little bit further than I should, but they probably have some career staff now working on a Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: on a full time basis. But a lot of the volunteer departments in Monroe County, because of difficulties of challenges with recruiting and retaining their personnel, probably more so recruiting than retaining personnel, but they've had to go down the road of looking at career staff or supplementing with career staff to make sure that they're adequately equipped to respond to emergencies. So where it was really the center of the city or the city proper that was the paid version of that, now you're seeing paid opportunities throughout a lot of the county departments as well. Emily McNulty: Right. Okay. So Jeremy, I have to ask, so fifteen years in Rochester, you moved into director roles in Springfield, Massachusetts, and New Jersey. So what drove that decision to leave? And then on top of that, what was it like stepping into a director role? D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: scary. Really scary. I will I can tell you that so I started my the role in Springfield as director started in January of twenty eighteen. It's funny because I told some people this story. I I literally left E C D on a Friday and I started my new job on a Monday. Like some people would probably say, Okay, so maybe he's gonna take like a couple of weeks or a month to gather his thought. No, no. And and Emily McNulty: Yeah. Right. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: why not why not pack up and move down with my little UHAL trailer to a city I've never even been to before or know anything about during a snowstorm and and move into my, you know, dumpy little apartment at the time. Because again, remember, I wasn't bringing my family with me. They were staying back. Stephen McDonnell: That's what I was gonna D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: They're staying back in Webster. You know, my wife, Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: my wife had a job, the kids are in school. Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Dad's going to Springfield, gonna be living living on his own during the week. But yeah, to to answer your question, I remember walking out of EC. I I remember it like it was yesterday, walking out of E C D that night and getting into my car and being like, What what the hell did I just do? Because I'm because I I'd been there for 15 years. I mean, it was what I knew. I mean, granted. I was still in the 911 space, but I was I'm going to a city I've never been to. I'm not taking my family. I'm I'm taking a department head role where previously, you know, it's yeah, there was there was some nerves there. There was some nerves there. And it it took a little while to settle in. I remember the reality for me vividly was when my wife, I think it was my wife, actually a couple of the kids. I think all the kids were down there helping me move in. But I remember, you know, kissing her goodbye, kissing the kids goodbye when they went back to Rochester and I was like, Boy, you talk about reality setting in. I'm just sitting in this apartment by myself and I'm like, I I wow. I mean just Stephen McDonnell: What grades were your kids in? Do you remember? D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: what would that was twenty eighteen? Well one of yeah, Austin would have graduated already. Yeah. So maybe one when I graduated, one was close to graduating, and the other one was a yeah, the other one was if my my youngest who's now almost twenty-four, she's finishing grad school. but she would later come down to join me in Springfield and end up going down to going to school in Springfield. So it was nice having her come down and join. She actually came down before my wife. we didn't end up buying a house in Springfield till September of twenty eighteen. So for the first nine months, I was down there by myself. Stephen McDonnell: You were just wow. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: and every and every weekend, this is the crazy part. I had a really good team in Springfield, but every weekend I would I'd go home. I'd literally I'd Emily McNulty: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: drive back to Rochester every Friday and then every late Sunday or early Monday I'd come back in the morning. And I did that for a while just to try to just to try to manage it. So I there was at least some similarity of of a normal life at that point. Emily McNulty: Right. Stephen McDonnell: That's a tough that's a tough lifestyle for nine months. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: It was yeah. And then I did that twice. I did that I did that with New Jersey too, which we can talk about. But you would have thought I would have learned the first time. It was it was scary. I'm not gonna lie. There's to to pack to leave your family, to leave everything that you know, and to go somewhere that you've never really been before, even though it's only one state over and it's only four and a half hours away, huge responsibility, huge, huge change, huge change. Emily McNulty: Yeah, so Stephen McDonnell: So you did the same thing with New Jersey, except they were in Springfield at this time. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Yeah. It was actually during it was during COVID, maybe March, April of 2020, whatever it happens to be, and there was an opportunity at a center down in New Jersey, and I was I was looking to make, you know, looking to make a change for a variety of reasons, but this opportunity came up. I said, you what, I'm gonna interview for it. if I if I don't get it, no big deal. If I do, I'll cross that bridge when I got to it. I went down there for a day, had the interview, within an hour they called me back and say, Hey, we'd like you to come down and and run the center for us. So when the opportunity presented itself, I was like, Maybe this is the the right thing to do. I am I'm absolutely a firm believer in fate. I think things happen for a reason. I think the fact that I saw that opportunity and that it seemed to be aligned with what I was really trying to do was why I ended up there. So Stephen McDonnell: The the traffic from Springfield to New Jersey is probably quite different from your the traffic to Rochester to Springfield. Emily McNulty: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Well here's the interest here's the interesting thought. Remember I I left in what March April of twenty twenty, which was right in the middle of the pandemic. So I used to be able to do that commute from Springfield to it was New Providence, New Jersey. The center was Mountain Valley Emergency Communications. But I used to be able to do that commute in two and a half hours. Stephen McDonnell: Wow. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Yeah, and wasn't I wasn't driving recklessly or speeding. I mean, I was being responsible. But yeah, two and a half to three hours tops. And I and I did that. But as the as the pandemic kind of waned and people started getting back out on the road again, Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: I remember it was my birthday probably in 2021. I was coming back for the weekend for my birthday, and it literally took me six hours to get home. And I'm Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: like, I'm I am I I'm calling my wife. I'm like, I cannot believe The tr and it was like the middle of the it was like a Wednesday or Thursday. Wasn't it? I was like, this is insane. I'm like, people are clearly back out doing things again. and Emily McNulty: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: and my my answer to that was instead of taking like the parkways and those kind of things back, I just took eighty seven up the up to the Stephen McDonnell: Up yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: throughway and took it across. And it was that was a definitely that was a better play for me towards the end. So but a good opportunity nonetheless. Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. Emily McNulty: Jeremy, before I move into our next session next section, excuse me, I wanted to ask like you worked in three different centers. Were they like vastly different or did you find like some similar like were there was it more similar than you thought? D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Similarities, yes. Emily McNulty: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: all all dramatically different. ECD is I mean, you and you guys know, one of the largest per capita centers in the country. one, you know, probably averaging 1.2 to 1.3 million calls a year, 84 different law enforcement, fire and EMS agencies. At least that was how many were there when I left. but you know, crazy call volume, you know, things can you know, we we had separate call takers, separate dispatchers. you know, three supervisors, those kind of things. But going to Springfield, a smaller center, the biggest challenge there, of course, was I had police dispatch in one building on one CAD platform and I had fire dispatch in another building on another CAD platform. So they weren't even talking to each other. So that was that Stephen McDonnell: Cheers. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: was really for me, that was mission number one getting in there. But the call volume was dramatically different. off the top of my head I wanna say maybe like four three hundred thousand to four hundred thousand calls a year. So roughly a third Maybe a little less than a third of what we were doing in Rochester, which was nice. I'm not I'm not gonna lie. You know, coming into the middle of summer in Rochester at Shift Change, I used to work Four to Midnight, which was Third Platoon. I think they now have five shifts, but at the time we only had three. And I would come in on like a July or August on a Saturday, and there was, you know, the events were Stephen McDonnell: I'm sure. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: just stacked up. It was so busy. So to go from that to going to a center where they didn't have nearly as much volume, it was was kind of nice. Stephen McDonnell: I'm actually surprised Springfield has had that less a volume than us here. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Yeah. Population wise, a fraction of what raw I mean, when you look at Rochester right now, and Stephen McDonnell: Yeah, I didn't realize that. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: I'm not sure what it is now, but if you take rot factor in Rochester and Monroe County, it's Stephen McDonnell: County, yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: I I mean at one point it was I think it was over a million, maybe it's a little lower than a million now, but if you included everything, the so the the the size of the population has is obviously a big driver on that. Stephen McDonnell: It's it's just under a million now. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Yeah. So so and I I know it's an I d I don't know what the actual a hundred and sixty six thousand a hundred and sixty six Stephen McDonnell: Spring and so Springfield is it? D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: thousand rings a bell for me for Springfield. We could look it up, but it Stephen McDonnell: Okay, okay. Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: was it was a fraction of what Rochester's population was or is. Emily McNulty: Okay. so Jeremy, after years on the public side, you you've moved to the private side now. So how D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Mm-hmm. Emily McNulty: did your experience working in PSAPs kind of shape how you approach your work now on the vendor side? D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: I think greatly, and I would say that because there was so many times as a director of of two centers where I would have in in fact it's funny, I you guys can appreciate this being in the space. You have vendors and then you have industry partners. Vendors are, you know, they come and want to sell you their stuff. Industry partners are legitimately there wanting to learn about your business, what you're doing, how you operate, how they can help, those kind of things. So for me, coming from a space where I sat behind the desk and I had my share of vendors come in and try to sell me their wares, even before making an an accurate determination as to whether or not I was a good candidate for what they were selling. I really wanted to incorporate a lot of the lessons learned from that being on the other side of the table into what I was doing for the private sector. I think I've I've managed to do that pretty well and shared a lot of my experiences with my colleagues about, hey, here's some of the things that you can do To really kind of go above and beyond and to really make yourself you know, put yourself in a better situation with the folks that you're talking to on the other side of the desk. There there are far too many organizations out there that, you know, it's they think the name just gets them everywhere and it's like, no, you you you legitimately have to understand the the pain points and challenges that are facing this individual and that's really what you should be doing to address whether or not what you're providing is is gonna help them. Because if it doesn't Yeah. I don't I I don't wanna I don't wanna just put something in somewhere just to say, yeah, they're a customer. There has to be a way to kind of help them fill that need. And I think my experience all the way from dispatcher all the way up to director to centers really helped me paint that picture for for the folks I've been involved with. Stephen McDonnell: So I think it's great and I feel like PSAPs are unique. I don't know if it's always been like this, and you can probably tell us more, but I see it quite often compared to some of the other industries where in that people that were actually sitting in the seat like yourself are moving to the side that's building and creating and trying to help the PSAPs. And I think that's important for the the vendor side, the the side that's trying to build this stuff to assist the 911 to have that input and have that. professional experience instead of people that never sat in the seat and are just trying to develop this stuff. It's great to sit and talk and go on ride-alongs and but it can never replace an actual human being that's been there for 15, 20, 30 years that can sit and help you day to day. So I do think that that's a good thing that PS the PSAP industry does. Is that always been like that or is that relatively relatively new? D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: You you I feel like you're seeing more of that now. I I feel like you're Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: seeing more of the companies that are out there operating in the space. I mean, you guys are on LinkedIn. I spent a little time on LinkedIn. Stephen McDonnell: Mm-hmm. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: but you guys you guys see what's going on there, but you're I seeing a lot of folks that are leaving the public sector space for private sector opportunities. And and I always and and again, I'm a I'm a I'm a champion for anybody out there that wants to do anything they can do to improve 911 for the people that work in it. In fact, that's that's my mission. If people are asked me, what is your why? What why do you do what you do? yeah, I have loyalty to my company, but my biggest thing is to make sure that I'm making the environment better for the 911 professionals that work in it. Doesn't matter where I am, that's my goal. That's my mission. So when you see these companies out there bringing in folks that came directly from the 911 space, what that tells me is that they're they value that experience. They value that knowledge. They want to be able to incorporate that into their their practices, how they do things. and more importantly, Emily McNulty: Mm-hmm. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: recognizing, and again, this is something I I certainly didn't coin the phrase or the terminology, but I've I've told people many times, if you've walked into one nine one one center, you've walked into one nine one center. You can't it it's very difficult because of the nature of the work and the of this profession to standardize a solution for everybody. It's just not as much as we like to do that from an integrator, from an industry partner standpoint, the 911 profession is very custom. It's very I need this to do this for me or this for me, whatever it happens to be. so I think that's where these folks that really have that knowledge, that baseline experience and understanding of what goes on from the time of the call to getting it entered to dispatching it to, you know, to doing protocols, EMD, those kind of things. Having that baseline knowledge of how all that works really helps industry partners go above and beyond when it comes to serving their customers. Emily McNulty: Yeah, I I like the fact that you call it industry partners versus a vendor. I think that's a an important an important distinguishing factor 'cause even I D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: If you ever heard have you ever hear me refer to somebody as a vendor, I mean that kinda okay. Maybe I maybe I'm giving away too much, but Stephen McDonnell: We I I no I ironically at dinner this weekend one of our customers said the same thing. He had the same thing. He's like, There's vendors and then there's partners he he said very specifically customers are vendors that we consider partners that are here in it with us trying to help our specific center. Emily McNulty: makes me think too Steve of our conversation with Ivan a couple months ago when he brought that up about how like how often he has to go to the to the vendor and ask for help when in reality it should probably be the other way around if it's a partnership. You know, we should be making that effort to to speak to our customers and making sure they have everything they need and not just put it in and leave, you know. So it's a it's a powerful, powerful change in terminology and thinking. So I appreciated you calling that out. I you answered two of my other questions I had in here when you were talking about your why, which which I love that you bring that out up, because I'm a big believer in always remembering your why. But I have to ask, like, what surprised you most about the private private sector coming from the public sector? D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: I would say that I shouldn't say it I shouldn't say it surprised me, but it was somewhat of a rude awakening when you come from the public sector space, which is very, in many ways, it's very methodical. It's it's it's not tomorrow. I need it tomorrow. I need it tomorrow, those kind of things. It's Emily McNulty: Uh-huh. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: very, you know, it's paced, right? It's it's gradual. Coming into the private sector, it's now, now, now, deliver, deliver, deliver. You know, Emily McNulty: Yesterday. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: we w we want the solution. If we're not first, we're last. Those kind of things. And again, this is Emily McNulty: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: this is this is a baseline. This isn't speaking to any one specific organization. It is Emily McNulty: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: a baseline of, you know, the these companies, these organizations, these industry partners wanna get out. They wanna they wanna they've got these great things, they've got these great solutions out there that they wanna get into the center, but they're you you kind of have to match the pace. in many ways of of the folks that you're working with. And the sales cycle for a lot of these centers, you guys know this, the sales cycle in many times, in many cases is extensive, right? It might be Emily McNulty: Mm-hmm. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: a year, might be two years, depending on what they happen to be rolling out. So there maybe there's an expectation on the part of that private sector entity that says, Hey, we wanna we wanna get this in or we wanna have this thing, we wanna have all these numbers in by the end of the year. But it's like this isn't happening until Q one of next year. So that's, you know Don't even don't even think about that. So there's there's in some cases a rush, right? Maybe a motivation or or or desire to kind of push, move the chains, try to make that process work a little bit better. But I think that's in some cases that's a mistake because these organizations, these these public sector entities, they may not have control of that. And I think that's where that whole relation, you know, we talked a little bit about the relationship piece, the industry partner versus vendor. Industry partner, you're sitting across the desk from a 911 leader and you're saying, Hey, tell me about this, tell me about this. You've established what the issue is or or what you're going to try to help out by implementing your solution. But I think a big part of that conversation also has to be timeline, right? It has to be what are your expectations relative to, you know, procurement cycle, how we're going to deliver it, support after delivery, those kind of things. So these are all things that I as private sector entities, I think we kind of expect that folks are going to have that all locked up. But I also think we have a responsibility to help them work through that process because a lot of folks, especially in smaller centers, this might be the first time they're going through this. You it might even it might even be the first time that a leader in this space is having to do an RF. You know, maybe they're buying consoles or maybe they're buying a CAD system, whatever it happens to be. They may be relying on us as industry partners to provide that additional intel and to have that baseline understanding and and that compassion and that empathy when It's not moving quite as fast as we'd like, but we're really kind of at the we're we're at the mercy of of their systems, their policies, their procedures, their municipalities, whoever's controlling that. we need to make sure that we're cognizant of that throughout that process. Emily McNulty: and I Yeah, no it D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: I think I answered that. There was a lot of information in that answer, right? Emily McNulty: experienced he has to Stephen McDonnell: on Emily McNulty: say. Stephen McDonnell: Well, I think and I I do think, I mean, i in in general, VCs and private equity and that type of capital look at public safety is it can be difficult because you can't really control or force or you know, doesn't matter how hard you work. The they're gonna buy at their timeline and how they want to buy. And that's just how it is. And so if you have outside money where the company's under pressure to be like, well, we need to get these sales, it's not gonna work very well. So D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Con convert conversely, you have those situations which I'm sure you guys love where they call you up at the end of the year, they've got ninety days left. Hey, I gotta spend an extra of this. Can you can you help me spend it? Absolutely, I can help you spend Yeah. Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. Yeah. So it goes it goes both ways. But I think to your point, if you're a partner and can ha have some empathy and understanding, then D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Yeah. Yeah. Stephen McDonnell: you can also set up your business functionally to make sure the business can operate within that and you can be there at the end of the year when something like that happens. So D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: And I would tell and I would tell this to the to any industry partner watching this, you know, when you guys finally put this out, but anybody watching this from the industry side, you have to have that level of compassion and care for the folks that you're out marketing your solutions to. I mean, if you if you don't, it's going to become painfully obvious very early on in the process that, you know, maybe there's a there's an issue with patience or the lack thereof, whatever it happens to be, but You you need to you need to understand the needs of your customer. I don't even it it's not even just nine one one or public safety, right? This is this Stephen McDonnell: General. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: is customer one run. understand the needs of the people that you're marketing to, or it's gonna be very difficult for you to be successful with with selling those solutions. Emily McNulty: 100%. And even on an elevated scale, like the people that we're selling to, their concern is the safety of their community. So D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Yeah. Emily McNulty: putting that in perspective too is is always important to remember. 100%. Yeah, exactly. Let me just pile on. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Just to add a little more stress to it, right? Yeah. Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. Emily McNulty: okay, so Jeremy, I I'd be remiss without talking with you about innovation and the disruptive technologies that that you talk about often in in in your speeches and in your podcast and your webinar. So technology though in 911, it feels like it's evolving faster than it ever has. Like in the past few years, it's sped up tremendously in my eyes. So you've got NG911, you've got that AI, real-time translation, connected vehicle data, a bunch of different complex items. So is there anything right now that you feel like is the most exciting to you or that you find yourself reading more and more about? D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: AI is gonna be the I mean that's gonna be the c it's how Emily McNulty: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: c how can you not be excited about what's going on with AI right now? And I I'll reference that conversation you you were asking about, you know, the session I did at ApcO. see we're dating ourselves. If I date myself by saying last last week, because I don't know when this is gonna air, Stephen McDonnell: Thank you. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: but so when I when we're at Apco in August and I did that session on AI, I mean Emily McNulty: Yep. Stephen McDonnell: You're pro. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: you've got you've got that you've got that group in there and They're they're just firing questions at you from all different directions. So you go in really wanting to be able to convey to this group, you know, you want to get these certain points across, but inevitably the conversation drifts and goes a different direction. The and the what-ifs here and the what-ifs there. But what I generally try to do in the same kind of in the same line of thinking is what we were just talking about relative to, you know, industry partners going in and talking with nine one leaders. I try to get a pulse of the folks that are in the room to see. Okay, what of the content that I'm planning to present are you definitely going to be interested in? And if there's things that aren't in my deck or in my plans to talk about, let's make sure that we get those out as well. But that's to go back to what excites me the most, I'd be I would be lying to you if I told you it wasn't AI because it is developing so quickly, so dynamically across so many different thresholds. if companies right now aren't talking about the work either that they're doing in AI currently or their plans to do it. I just don't know how much of a how much of a future these organizations have if there's not aspects of AI. And I say that because unlike a lot of the other technology that I've seen in 911, and I'm sure you guys have seen this as well, when you go into a lot of 911 centers, a lot of times you get folks that, you know, maybe they put the hand up and say, I'm, you I'm I'm a year and a half, two years out from retirement. I'm not going to change anything. Or I want to see what somebody else does before I start rolling these solutions out. You have to remember when you walk into situations like that, that all of us, when we started out as dispatchers all the way up to directors, we were we were taught the CYA acronym very, very early on in our careers. So CYA is it's kind of that overarching mantra, right? It's that I don't want to do something and risk a problem occurring because of my choice to implement it. I say this because Where a lot of the technology that you've seen folks reluctant to roll out, what I've really been impressed with and what surprises me even more is how quickly the nine one one community is deciding to embrace. Maybe Emily McNulty: Mm. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: maybe embrace is too strong a word. How quickly the nine one one community is deciding to at least learn more about the technology and what the benefits are of it. Because a lot of times you have to go around, you have to talk to a lot of these folks, say, look, I I'm don't I'm not trying to push you one way or the other to to procure, to buy, to implement, to deploy, any of those things. What I am encouraging everybody in the 911 space to do, and even not in the 911 space, I'm encouraging all these folks just to learn about it, to get out there to play with the tools. A lot of those tools don't cost you anything. That I mean you can get into these frontier models at at I think they're still a no cost option. I don't think they've eliminated that. I've I haven't been in that realm for a little while, but hopefully they're still out there. But that's that's the beauty of this is we're giving people the opportunity to get in and learn about it. And I'm really starting to see that. at these conferences, at these presentations, people just they're soaking it in like a sponge, wanting to figure out how they can roll that out. Stephen McDonnell: That's great. We we definitely see it too. Emily McNulty: I'm yeah, and I I want to ask too, Jeremy, because I know like Steve and I, we've definitely seen too attentiveness around AI for sure. Like you said, you kind of changed the word embrace a little bit, but learning more about like the the fear of replacing people, of of getting it wrong or something like that, because there is high risk within 911, understandably. So so have you experienced any like pushback in your talks about AI or like Challenging questions or more common, like objections that people will raise. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Yeah, I try to be very when I'm doing my sessions, I try to be very objective, right? I'm I'm trying to not take a specific position on anything. And I do my best to give everybody a voice, to give everybody the opportunity to to weigh in. I would say overwhelmingly the single biggest thing that maybe is preventing AI from doing more within the nine one one space right now is there's a lot of folks out there that have trust issues. And I don't think it's just in the nine one one realm. I think it's an overarching concern about, you know, how much how much of my internal workflow do I want to release into these models to allow it to do different things for me. great case in point, the the session that I just delivered at APCO, the very last slide I did we had an open forum discussion on human in the loop versus human on the loop. And because I really wanted to get kind of a baseline understanding as to what people thought about this, you know, human in the loop basically being every single it's transactional in a way. Every single thing that's going on within 911 and a human in the loop model, a human has to approve it. Versus human on the loop, where we start leveraging agentic AI and maybe having 911 professionals, maybe the ones that are being hired in the future, instead of specifically doing a single task like handling a 911 call or dispatching, those kind of things, maybe these 911 professionals of the future are now looking at, you know, managing six, seven, eight, ten agents all doing these different roles. human on the loop. And then there's even we had some discussion beyond that to see what it would look like. But, you know, you can I think a lot of times when you're having conversations about technology with people, it's very easy to think pie in the sky never happened long after my career is over with. You really can't say that with artificial intelligence. It is moving so rapidly that w we're we're not talking about five, ten, fifteen years out. We're talking about twenty twenty seven, twenty twenty eight. I mean we're talking about next year. And that's That's the crazy thing for me and I think for you guys as well because people in this business know even if they're not doing anything with AI now, you're you're absolutely gonna have AI in the future, somewhere down the line. Stephen McDonnell: So go into that human in the loop versus human on the loop. and I I'm with ya. I I keep my hands on everything AI not only in 911, but I do feel even more so on 911 because of what type type of call taking it is. It's it's life and death, death. It's not someone calling in because their credit card didn't work or they need a refund. It's it's it's D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Right. Right. Stephen McDonnell: life and death. That maybe there's a little bit greater of a trust issue. Totally understand everyone definitely has it. You go on them anywhere in the media, you'll see it. But and I get the 911 having it a little bit more than some other people. And maybe some of the things we talk about is it's like a phased approach. Like let's start with human in the loop, get you get everyone comfortable with what AI can do, and then bring on human on the loop when you guys feel comfortable with what AI's powers are are. that's at least kind of the approach we we've been taking, because human on the loop can be like, whoa, what that true agentic AI is powerful. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: yeah. Yeah, and I think what's what's even crazier about that is the number you know, and I I know you both listen to podcasts. I mean, I listen to my share of them, but one of the podcasts I listen to, the the the guy that runs this podcast, he's very open about the fact that he he says, first of all, if you're listening to this podcast, you're already you're already part of a very small group of people that are really you know going out of their way to educate themselves on AI. But the thing that he reminds his listeners of periodically is keep in mind that you're probably in the I don't know, two to th I forget what the number was, maybe two to three percent of the of the community out there that's actually learning about this and and not necessarily embracing it, but spending time learning about it. The gross majority of people out there in the public right now don't know anything about AI. All Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: they know about is what they're hearing on TV or what they're hearing their friends talking about. he also suggested in this podcast that the gross majority of companies are not prepared. don't really have a specific AI strategy, which I was like, wow, that that kinda boggles my mind. So fortunately being with an organization now that is, you know, very much embraced AI and is doing a lot of different things in the space, much like what you guys are doing, I don't have to worry about kind of being roadblocked from working with a lot of those technologies. And frankly, as I mentioned earlier, to really succeed in this space, to be able to move, to be able to excel within the nine one one and public safety space, you're gonna have to have some kind of an AI plan. or or some type of an AI based solution to guarantee yourself any kind of success in the future. I think without that, at some point it's gonna be the kind of thing where they're like, wait, it's not in the cloud, wait, it's not AI based. It's not well, you know. on prem, in my opinion, Emily McNulty: Right. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: at some point's probably gonna be a thing of the past. I think it's already kinda going that way, but I think it's gonna be a thing of the past Emily McNulty: Mm. Yeah, we'll get that. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: sooner than we than we think. Stephen McDonnell: Well, we we always talk about nine n PSAPs are some of the only industries out there that are predominantly on prem still. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Yeah. I mean, and again, that's that whole that's that whole CYA Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: mentality, right? It's it's it's legacy, it's legacy practices put into place. So again, even more of a reason why those industry partners that are working in a space where maybe it's cloud-based solutions, maybe it's AI, when legacy dictates that on-prem has been the way it's always been, that's the safest model. It's on us as folks in the industry partner space to say, Hey, recognize why you're doing these things. But I just wanna make sure you're educated on why these are some of the other approaches that might be beneficial to you and make sure that you are able to address all those questions. Emily McNulty: Right. Jeremy, before we before I I get I ask you more about kind of your podcast and what you're doing with it, I did want to ask you kind of about a specific use case that we're seeing with AI in terms of protecting telecommunicator wellness. You talked about it a little bit before, the retention piece, the the wellness piece, how that's always been a draw, and now AI is starting to come into that conversation too. and you know we're we're in a similar boat, approaching it from the scheduling and staffing side. But how D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: yeah. Emily McNulty: do you think AI can be used to improve? The wellness, peace. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Number one, we need to keep the whole premise of we we've done a really good job as a profession, as an industry, keeping the mental health and wellness messaging top of mind, right? When I joined Emily McNulty: Mm-hmm. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: I won't even say I it was before nine one one. It was when I was just in the fire department. It was always if you had a bad call, if you saw something that wasn't really good, it was you know, walk it off, dust dust yourself off and and come back in and do your thing. Fortunately, we've gotten away from that. We we've gotten out of the point where there are support resources available. There are the folks recognize the type of secondary stress and vicarious trauma that our 911 professionals are exposed to as part of the public safety intake process. The beauty of that is that because they recognize that now, we're starting to see from a 911 standpoint the resources being available, which previously might have only been available to like law enforcement, fire, EMS. For many, many years. And I think in some cases, in some jurisdictions, this is still the case. 911 operates behind the scenes. Very few people, if any, see it. And I think that's why a lot of times we didn't get the support we needed for our 911 professionals. We've definitely seen maybe not a 180. I I think there's more work to be done in that space. We can definitely be doing more. Our buddy Roxy Van Gundy, who I know you guys talked to on the podcast a while back. I mean, she's she's huge on the mental health and wellness thing. And I think it's great that Roxy's taking over. you know this year as Nina president and she's really going to be able to speak to a lot of it. But we are definitely seeing improvements in that in centers throughout the country. How do I think we can continue to leverage that? I'm going to go back to the AI discussion. When I think about things like sentiment analysis, gesture recognition, some of those different areas, especially when we talk about those centers that are bringing incident related imagery into Other center is part of workflow. So you know, via IRI, it's gonna be still images, streaming media, video, those kind of things. Since the first 911 call was taken in February of nineteen sixty-eight, our job has been one of listening. We've all become incredible listeners. We can hear things during a conversation that the average person could never hear. But we've never had the visual piece, right? We've never had the visual side of that. So now we're suddenly gonna plunge our folks into this space where not only are you gonna hear it, but now you're gonna see what's happening as well. Many directors, many nine one one leaders in the space are convinced that this is gonna have negative implications on their people, potentially getting people to leave the profession early, retire early, got or or those new folks that are coming in. I don't wanna look at it. I don't mind listening to it. I don't wanna look at it. Now we could do a whole separate session on IRI because I think Emily, you know, Steve, you might know. I this is what I spent my graduate studies working on and and wrote a thesis on this, but I think By and large, the biggest concern that a lot of these folks have is because we're changing the dynamic by which 911 information is coming across. And we're kind of being we're kind of having our hand forced a little bit in this because everybody carries one of these things around, right? Everybody wants to be able to interact and engage with 911 the same way they can ordering a pizza or, you know, put buying airline tickets, whatever it happens to be. So there is kind of a push on the part of the public to say, hey, we want to be able to send pictures to you. How do we deal with that? When we talk about it from an image standpoint, if I'm a 911 leader and I'm reluctant to have my people looking at those things, maybe I leverage AI to do image analysis for me. Maybe maybe I'm having it evaluate video. maybe I've got a camera pointing at my telecommunicator, my dispatcher, whatever it happens to be, and through gesture recognition and sentiment analysis, maybe it's identifying, hey, this person is exhibiting signs and symptoms of PTSD or vicarious trauma, whatever it happens to be. Now I've got an extra leg up. Before, as supervisors, We were limited to what we knew was going on at the time on the floor. Maybe there's a bad accident. Maybe there's a a domestic problem that resulted in an assault and somebody getting injured. We only had that information in supervisors that we were aware of as part of a call that was going on. Now I've actually got this separate tool, this AI-based tool running in the background saying, hey, your operator at position, whatever it happens to be, just had a, you know, a CPR call on a on an infant or or there was a drowning victim, whatever it happens to be. The floor got really good at making sure that we understood that there was a big event going on, but wouldn't it be nice, especially on a busy day, to have other platforms, Stephen McDonnell: Mm-hmm. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: AI based platforms saying, Hey, heads up, your call taker over here is dealing with this, your dispatcher's dealing with this. I think that's how you're that's really for me, that's the force multiplier is how Stephen McDonnell: Mm-hmm. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: AI is going to help improve those situations and really identify for us the the folks that might need more assistance. Stephen McDonnell: We could have whole podcast of our own that. That I I have like twenty questions, but I'm like, ask around. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: We could. We could. We could. We could. Emily McNulty: Yeah, that's interesting. Stephen McDonnell: But I think that's great. I Yeah. Emily McNulty: Yeah, next one. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: I love I love talking about incident related imagery, by the way. If you want to do a separate one, we'll we'll do that sometime. But Emily McNulty: Yeah, that's interesting. Stephen McDonnell: Well, it's interesting because I think some of the most important use cases in nine one one with AI right now are coming out on non emergency cases. So, you know, the actual humans shouldn't have to deal with it'd be nice if they didn't have to deal with non emergency that they could focus on what they really needed to go. Yeah. Yep. Yep. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: And they sh and they and they shouldn't. I mean, you are you are a nine one one professional. You are an emergency communications professional. And dealing with somebody's barking dog or an illegally parked vehicle, you should not have to do that. I'm sorry. And I think that's Stephen McDonnell: Correct. And then D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: you know, we we haven't really we haven't talked today about like consolidation efforts or regionalization efforts Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: when it comes to nine one one, but I think in my opinion, that's what's happening, especially with a lot of these smaller centers when these communities come in and you know they've they've had They've had this person that's been out at the reception desk answering their phones and pouring coffee and greeting people. We can be, we can, we can definitely be good with people when we have them on the phone. But a lot of those things that a lot of these agencies that are consolidating, they expect they're gonna get that same, you know, I hate to call it this, but I'll that hand holding level of service. And frankly, in 911 center, that's just not possible. So non-emergency call diversion, I Stephen McDonnell: Yep. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: love it. I love it. Is it I'm telling you right now, if I was a director at this time. I'd be having those conversations because I want to steer as much of that away from my people as possible. Stephen McDonnell: Yep. And and I think we see a lot at in the centers. They talk about it a lot. But to your point, you're talking about the world has turned into with with our phones, obviously. You just held it up. Everyone if I were in a nine one emergency calling about someone else, I would probably want a FaceTime to be like, Hey, look at you look at what's going on rather than me trying Emily McNulty: What should I Yeah, tell me. Stephen McDonnell: to articulate it. But on the flip s and so I can see the public wanting that, but on the flip side to your point, yeah, that's traumatic. I don't want to deal with that. But that's another perfect use case for AI to pop in. So I I think both those are great. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Yeah, and we haven't we haven't we haven't really talked about recruitment or retention, which continues to be the single biggest problem facing nine one one right now, but you you've got the folks that have been doing it for fifteen, twenty, twenty-five years, maybe those that are close to retirement, they're accustomed to doing things a certain way. And then you've got this newer younger generation. I remember when I was the young guy, I'm not that anymore, but you got this newer, younger generation coming in, which they're in many cases a little bit more tech savvy, maybe a little bit more accepting. However, we also know there's some issues with you know. maybe maybe they're not quite as tolerant as some of the folks that have been doing it for a while when it comes to like forces, mandates, being forced to stay and those kind of things. So we have that generational piece is something that has to be worked through as well. But I think when it comes to things like imagery and those things coming into the center, you know, maybe some of the younger folks that are coming in because they're coming into it and it's a newer, newer thing, maybe that's something Stephen McDonnell: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: that they would be more adept to deal with or more open to be dealing with. I don't know. I Nobody's got that figured out yet. It's still if there was one thing I can tell you I walked away from after doing my research for my my thesis, it's that more research needs to be done. I can tell you that much. Emily McNulty: I love it. Well, thanks for sharing about that, Jeremy. I I appreciate your your input. Like Steve said, I think we might have to have you on again to dig even deeper. but I I like I said before we wrap, I you just launched your 911 Future podcast. and it's focused on career growth, on leadership, and just on the future of emergency communication. So what inspired you to create it? Who are you hoping it reaches? Just share it with us so our listeners can hear it too and and tune in. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Sure. So I I try to keep the title simple. So your nine one one future, you can go to YouTube and find it there. I've got a Facebook page, you can go there and like it. That'll give you the announcements for when the new ones are coming out. quick answer to your question is when I started in the nine one one profession, depending on who the individual is, you're gonna get some people that wanna come in and and their immediate goal, and I certainly fell into this category was all right, I'm gonna come in, I'm gonna do my time in this position, then I wanna promote into this one. I'm gonna do my time here, then I'm gonna promote you know, it's you're f you're fast tracking yourself. So for me I think that was a big driver behind why I started this because the one thing that I really didn't I we had a great director who who supported me in a lot of different ways and and did a lot of cool things for allowed us to get out get out and do a lot of different things within the 91 community, which was awesome because I know there's a lot of directors in the country that don't have maybe they don't have the wherewithal to do that, maybe they don't have the budget for it. you know, my director, John, at the time was great about letting us do that thing. But I really had to figure out how How kind of that career path worked out. I mean, aside from, you know, okay, here's the test for dispatcher two, here's when it comes out, what can I, what can I do to prepare for that? What can I expect when I take the civil service exam? What types of things am I going to have to do? Should I get promoted in that position? How does that role differ from here? So a lot of those things you can answer internally, but I think as you start to move up within the 911 space, especially when you start to look at administrative, you know, supervisor director level roles. There wasn't really a resource out there to say, here's what you should be doing, here's some of the things that you should be reading, here's the certifications or the credentials you should be seeking to do that. So what I really sought to do with your 911 future, and again, it's I think I've recorded one episode. There's another one gonna be coming up soon, but it's very early on the process. But what I really want to be for the 911 professionals out there is a resource, right? a as somebody who's sat in a in a variety of different seats over the course of the last 20, 25 years, now being in the private sector. I want to encourage folks to reach out to me and say, hey, you know what? Maybe I just started. Maybe I've only been here a couple of weeks, but I love the job. What's next? Or maybe I want to know about, you know, ApcoRPL or Nina ENP, those kind things. I want to learn about those. A lot of times you have to, you know, there's a lot of information online, but us outside of that, people didn't really know where to go. So if I could be that mentor, if I could kind of help people move up within the profession, and God knows, we need amazing leaders. We need incredible leaders. We have so many. Awesome folks that are nearing retirement right now that are moving away from the 911 space, which is creating these openings. And every time that happens, you know, you you've got to have some kind of succession plan in place. I want to really help those leaders of tomorrow. I want to keep that interest there, but I want to make sure that I can kind of help guide them along the way. And if it means pointing them in the direction of a specific certification class or credential or going to school something for whatever it happens to be, that's really what the podcast is all about. It's it's about leadership. It's about understanding what it takes to move up within the 911 profession. It's identifying the areas where opportunities may come up or or may pop up. And of course, you know technology was going to be a big part of that. So technology, leadership, and moving up within 911. Those are the three kind of target areas I'm really going to be focused on. Emily McNulty: Yeah, that's wonderful and so exciting to to see it kind of come into fruition. Like like you said, you've spoken for so long. Like let's put those thoughts out there even more and just keep keep distributing them. 'cause someone I'm sure is very glad to hear it. So wonderful. Thanks, Jeremy. Steve, do you have any other questions for Jeremy before for our guests before we wrap up? Stephen McDonnell: No, this has been great. I'm very excited to start listening to your to your podcast. I'm congrats on getting that going. I think it's very important to mentor young people, especially in nine one centers. I don't have the background you have, but if there isn't that those people out there doing that right now, I think it's great that you're stepping up in that position. And it's very important for the younger generations to know exactly, you know, what the r possible roadmaps they have in to leadership spots. So kudos to you on that. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Yeah, thank you very much. And I think again, I think when you when you talk about like police fire and EMS, I mean very visible to the public. People tend to know about it just from from seeing in the public. Nine one one is still kind of the great unknown, I think, for many, especially the people that are just joining the profession. So hopefully I can be a resource to them. Emily McNulty: Thanks, Jeremy. Is there anything else that we didn't chat about in today's conversation besides your podcast that we can encourage our listeners to listen to or that you'd like them to know about? D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: We've chatted about a lot today. I don't know I don't I don't know what I don't know I mean one of the things I can talk about is the work that I've done with both Nina and Napco on the standards development side. So if you have folks out there that don't really know what they can do to get more involved, and maybe they think they maybe they have some maybe maybe they're they think they're restricted because there's money or funding that's associated with their involvement in these kinds of things. it's very easy to get involved virtually in these committees and these working groups and really be a part of affecting positive change within the nine one one space. So I see a l I I've chaired these groups, I've vice chaired them, I've just been a participant. But the beautiful thing about this is this allows folks from all over the country, regardless of where they in are in the nine one one space, to get involved and learn a lot about the inner workings of what's going on from a standards development basis. So That would that would probably be the only other thing that I would say, man, get involved. Especially Emily McNulty: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: the newer f especially the newer folks that maybe want to just don't know how to start. Emily McNulty: Yeah. And like you said about speaking, the best thing you can do is try it out and then you can learn. So D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I I I hemmed and hawed with this podcast for the longest time and finally said, you what, I'm just gonna go rec I'm gonna go record something and see what happens. I mean, I've been thinking about Emily McNulty: Yeah. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: it for months, but you guys Stephen McDonnell: Good for you. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: might have actually had a little to do with that, and then I was watching I think Emily McNulty: Well it. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: the bigger thing for me was spending the amount of time that I spend on YouTube, which is probably way too much, and saying, if I'm sitting here watching this much stuff, other people will maybe watch my stuff. So maybe that's why I did it, but it's fun. Thank you. Emily McNulty: Heck yeah. Heck yeah. Love it. Well, thank you, Jeremy. That's that's wonderful. I I encourage all our listeners to check out Jeremy's podcast, your 911 Future, available wherever you listen. so Jeremy, thank you so much for joining us on the Will MacWire. I have to call out if for our listeners, if you don't follow Jeremy on LinkedIn, you definitely should. He is a great, great personality on on LinkedIn. A real joy to to see all your posts, and you can find them at D JeremyDamar there. And like we talked about earlier, you can find him speaking at public safety conferences. So definitely look out for him if you're going to any of the ones coming up. All right, Jeremy, that's all we got for you today. Thanks for joining us. D. Jeremy DeMar, MA,CPE, ENP: All right. Thanks for having me on the show, guys. Take care. Stephen McDonnell: Thanks, Jeremy. Appreciate it.