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Bonus: Real Evil in Rock ‘n’ Roll. Is There Any? · DISGRACELAND

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hey Discos, need a little more Disgraceland in your life?
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Just a touch to get you through?
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, me too.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is the podcast that comes after the podcast. Welcome
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: to Disgraceland, the after party. Welcome to the Disgraceland bonus episode,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: a little thing we like to call the after party.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: This is the show after the show, the party after
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: the party, the bridge to get you from one full
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: episode of Disgraceland to the other, the backyard to dig
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: into the dirt. Our mission to uncover the truth, to
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: confront the myth, to reclaim the story. On this bonus episode,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: on the heels of our Alice Cooper story, we're discussing
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: true evil in rock and roll history. Venoms, Kronos just died,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: and are there any real Satanists left in rock and roll?
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: We're here to answer that question and also to get into,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: you know, were there any to begin with? We don't know. Plus,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: which artists from music history have had the greatest second acts?
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: We get into the music that has inspired and confronted
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: your faith with your emails, comments, DMs, and as always,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: a whole lot of Rosie. This is the podcast for
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: the musically obsessed, the outsiders, the independent thinkers who know
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: that the best history is the history that gets buried
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: in Disgraceland is where I tell the stories you'll end
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: up telling someone else. All right, Discos, let's get into it.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: All right, Discos, welcome into the after party. I've got
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: good and evil on the mind this week, just like
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: I did last week. It's partly thematic. It's partly because
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: of the subjects we're discussing here in Disgraceland, talking about
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Alice Cooper this week, talking about Tim Lambesis from As
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: I Lay Dying the week before. It's also Halloween, so
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: I'm watching American Horror Story. I just read The Exorcist,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: re-read it, I should say. I'm kind of watching The
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Exorcist again, low-key in the background. So I've got good
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: and evil on the brain. And when I think about
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Alice Cooper this week's episode subject, obviously a musician who
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: dealt with dark themes. Some might even say the occult,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: but I would challenge that. Alice Cooper... a quote-unquote shock rocker,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: and then you have somebody like Tim Lambesis, who's a
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: quote-unquote Christian metal artist. You got Alice Cooper, who's dealing
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: with these dark themes, and who I mentioned last week,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: I believe, is an actual Christian. You got Tim Lambesis,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: who proclaims to be a Christian and a metalhead, and
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: he's not. He's a charlatan. So there's an interesting dynamic
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: here at play between the two of these guys, and
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: we've got them back to back this week. Another thing
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: that has me think of this is I sat down
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: and I opened up my paper on Sunday, and I
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: want to read you this headline. Conrad Lamp, pusher of
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: heavy metal to its darkest demonic reaches, 63. Reaches, 63.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: That's not the point. The point is this is Kronos.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: This is from the New York Times, Sunday's New York Times.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: This is Kronos from the band Venom. died dead at
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: the age of 63. Venom, known as the band that
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: kind of started it all when it comes to all
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: of the heavy metal offshoots. Black metal, death metal, speed metal, thrash.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Venom is kind of the big bang. And unlike Slayer
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: and Metallica and Exodus and Overkill and Unlike the black
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: metal bands that came after Venom, black metal is actually
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: named after a Venom song. The genre is named after
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: a Venom song. That's how influential Venom was. Unlike these
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: other artists that I just mentioned from the sort of
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: metal subgenres, Venom professed to have a real love of Satan. Now,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: what I'm trying to figure out is, do I believe that?
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: It's funny. I talked about this in the rap party
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: with Zeth. When Venom were making their way over to America,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: all the New York hardcore kids and the artsy avant-garde
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: New York scene got hip to them. I'm talking about
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: very young Beastie Boys and very young Thurston Moore. And
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: they didn't know what to make of them. They kind
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: of thought that they were like a like ironic about
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: what they were doing, about their heavy metal. And then
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: of course they show up to play in New Jersey
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: or New York or wherever for the first time. And
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Mike D from the Beasties and Thurston Moore and those
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: guys are like, holy shit, these guys are serious. So
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Venom the band has this weird kind of dichotomy in
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: and of itself where you're kind of like, what the fuck?
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: This is real? It's so over the top that it's
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: hard to take serious. But this is from the New
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: York Times obituary on Kronos. It says, while bands like
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Black Sabbath and Motley Crue occasionally invoked Lucifer in their lyrics,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: Venom summoned the devil so often that he might as
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: well have been sitting in on keyboards. A core text
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: for the group was the Satanic Bible by the Church
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: of Satan founder Anton LaVey. Goes on to say, this
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: is a quote from Kronos, says, we take it very seriously, Mr.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Lance said of the dark arts in a 1982 interview. Now,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know, as I said, that I believe Kronos
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: and Venom. Here's what I want to understand. How many
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: of these artists, these musicians, these rock stars who dabbled
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: in in Satan and the dark arts and the occult
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: thematically with their music, who were protested by the sort
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: of moral majority at the time. It doesn't really exist anymore,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: but you know what I'm talking about, the Tipper Gores
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: of the world and the evangelical preachers and all the
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: people in the 80s and 90s who were getting their
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: panties in a bunch over rock and roll. And they
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: were protesting certain artists. Venom was on the Filthy 15 list,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Tipper Gore's original list, along with Prince's, Darwin, Nicki, and
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: a bunch of other ones. who among those metal acts
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: or any sort of rock and roll band that dabbled, again,
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: with Satanism and the dark arts, who among them were serious?
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: I'm asking this question because as I think about it,
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: I don't think any of them were serious. Even Venom,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: though I'm not sure about Venom. They may have been
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: the only one. It deserves further research. But this thing
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: is interesting to unpack right now. And what I'm talking
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: about is like, The subject matter here in Disgrace Line
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: gets incredibly dark, especially the Rewind episodes we have coming
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: this week with ACDC. The first one on Richard Ramirez,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: the Night Stalker. That's kind of what started my thinking
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: along these lines years ago. This guy, this killer, this
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: serial killer was the definition of evil, of an evil person,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: like Hitler-level evil. He obviously didn't have the stats that
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Hitler put up. But his darkness came from a similar place.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: He was a really, really fucked up evil individual. And
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: when you look at, again, the protestations of the moral
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: majority around rock and roll and so-called Satanists and heavy metal...
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: they're coming at this from the point of view that
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: somebody like Kronos here or somebody like Ozzy Osbourne or
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Alice Cooper is on the same level with somebody like
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Richard Ramirez. They worry that that's where this is all going.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: And that's another argument in and of itself. But I'm
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: more interested in looking at which among these artists from
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: music history have actually been evil. So let's unpack it.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: The black metal guys, that's where my head goes first, right?
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Varg Vikernes and Euronymous and Dead and all those guys.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: I can go through each one of them and tell
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: you why I don't think they were actually evil, despite
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: the evil that they did, okay? I know that's a
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: very nuanced way of looking at it. But Varg Vikernes,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: despite his modern day, current racist, fucking fascist, whatever Viking
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: shit that he's up to, I don't believe he's a Satanist.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: That's my point. He may be evil for other reasons,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: but I don't believe he is an evil Satanist. Ozzy Osbourne,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: hell no. He was a Christian. Alice Cooper, we've already
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: established this Christian. Look at Slayer. When I first heard Slayer,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: without knowing anything about them, if you told me these
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: guys were actual Satanists, I would have believed you. But
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: then you unpack it a little bit and you understand, no,
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: they're just commenting on this darkness from world history. And
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: Tom Araya, I mentioned this last week, Tom Araya is
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: a Catholic. Kirk and Rob from Metallica, I'm pretty sure
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: they're Christians. So all of these guys, not actually evil.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: All of these musicians. Let's put Kronos from Venom aside.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: We still don't know. I don't know. And again, I'm
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: qualifying evil. I'm trying to get at this question. Are
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: any of the satanic dark arts musicians actually evil? Actually
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: what people say they are? Now, of course, there's evil
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: musicians from music history. I just wrote, what, 7,000 words
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: on Jared Leto last week. And if what they say
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: about Jared Leto, I know he's an actor, but he's
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: a rock star as well. 30 Seconds to Mars is
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: a massive band, if you're not paying attention. I wasn't
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: paying attention. Huge band. If what they're saying about Jared
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Leto is true, it is truly fucking evil. It is
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: truly dark what Reggie Watts is accused of having done
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: to his No. deceased ex-girlfriend. There's a long list of musicians,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: especially in Disgraceland. Big Lurch, Michael Allig, who we had
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: in the archive in the rewind slot last week. I
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: knew Michael Allig a little bit. I got to know
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: him a little bit at the end of his life.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: I had a couple phone conversations with him. I had
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: an ongoing text thread going with him. Did some truly
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: evil shit. Really horrific. The worst possible things you could imagine.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: But was he staying up at night making sacrifices with goats?
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: And I know they're two different things. and I know
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of conflating them here, but I'm trying to
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: get at this question of like, are any of these
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: guys from music history who have been accused of Satanism
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: and of the dark arts, are any of them evil? And,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: you know, I just feel like when I read this,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: when I read this New York Times obituary on Kronos,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: you know, New York Times is a fairly buttoned up organization.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: And it's, This is a half-page obituary. They don't actually
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: say whether they believe that Kronos' satanic affinity is real.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: They don't actually go there. They quote him, but again,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: that quote's from 1982. Dude died at 63 years old
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: in 2026.
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: Okay?
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: You know? And the band has to uphold a certain image.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: I get that. What was the guy doing in his
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: spare time? Is he actually practicing the dark arts? And
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: it made me think, if I were a dark arts musician,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: if I were an actual Satanist, if I truly cared
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: about putting evil into the world, the opposite of what
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: I actually care about, would I be out there on
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: my front foot talking about it? Or would I be
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: working behind the scenes? Like, I don't know, someone like
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: perhaps Jimmy Page. No, I'm kidding. Kind of. I don't know.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: It's that whole thing about the devil, you know? What
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: is it? The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: making people believe that he didn't exist. What's that from?
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: It's that Kevin Spacey movie, Usual Suspects. You know, that
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: was kind of my Jimmy Page take when I got
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: into the research on Jimmy Page. But I want to know.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Because I don't think the Kronos guy was actually an
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: evil Satanist. I don't. I think they dabbled in it
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: for image. They dabbled in it to have a sort
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: of niche to sell records, however you want to frame it.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: You want to be that cynical about it. I don't believe, obviously,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: that Alice Cooper was into all the shit that they
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: were worried he was into. I don't believe the same
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: can be said about, I don't believe Slayer were Satanists
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: or even the black metal guys. They're fucked up, sure, clearly,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: completely fucked up. And all of them, dead, Euronymous, Varg,
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: they all had different reasons for doing the things, the
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: truly horrific things that they did. But I don't think, again,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: I don't think Varg Vikunis is sitting up at night
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: making sacrifices to Lucifer. I think he's up at night
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for his kids to
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: take to school tomorrow, like the rest of us. So
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: the question remains, are there any musicians from music history
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: who are True Satanists. Truly evil.
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: Okay?
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: If you know of any, I want to hear about it. 617-906-6638.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Voicemail and text. It's Halloween. We still got a couple
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: weeks left. We'll continue this conversation next week. Our Rewind
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: episodes coming in the feed this weekend on ACDC thematically
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: are going to work really well with this question. For
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: the reasons I mentioned before. I started thinking about this.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: I've been thinking about it the last few days. And
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: when I woke up this morning, I knew that it
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: was what I was going to bring to the after
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: party today to talk to you all about. And I
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: texted Zeth. And I sort of flipped the question and
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: put it more in the realm of Hollywood. Are there
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: any filmmakers, Kenneth Anger, who else? These guys perhaps from
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Europe from the 1960s. Any filmmakers who are truly evil?
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Any films, besides the obvious possessed films like the whole
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: poltergeist thing, I think Creepshow is another one. Any other
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: films we don't know about that were truly demonic portals
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: that had been opened where horrific things happened to those involved?
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: And again, I'm not talking about filmmakers here necessarily who
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: were just bad dudes, Roman Polanski, et cetera. I'm talking
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: about satanic filmmakers, okay?
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: That's what we're going to get into in the exclusive
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: section of today's after party. Go to disgrace and pod.com
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: to sign up, to become an after party member, to
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: hear that conversation and to unlock ad free listening as well. Okay.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Alice Cooper in the feed this week, coming up this weekend,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: as mentioned, ACDC parts one and part two. I love
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: these episodes cause I fucking love ACDC man. And, um,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Like I said, the sort of Richard Ramirez Night Stalker piece.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: This is our first episode on ACDC. Fascinating story. Really
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: get into the darkness of this guy and how it
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: related to ACDC's music and the treatment they got from
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: the media, which was completely insane. Probably my favorite music
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: from any episode. This and the Miles Davis episodes are–
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: I love the music. Jay-Z as well. This one though,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: just really demonic music. I was super inspired by that
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: World War I movie, All Quiet on the Western Front,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: that I had seen. And we actually used that to
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: inform the music in this episode, along with some Giorgio
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Moroder and some sort of dark horror movie stuff. Really
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: proud of the music in the ACDC Part 1 episode.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Part 2 is a little bit different. It deals with
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Phil Rudd's He troubles the sort of hired hitman stuff
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: that happened later in the career of ACDC and gets
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: into the murder of their manager as well. Really interesting.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Really dives into Malcolm's point of view a little more
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: fully in part two. I think you're going to dig
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: that as well. Anyways, those are coming up this weekend.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Next week, our episode on Reggie Watts. Can you believe it?
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Is that true? Is that when that's happening? I have
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: to double check. Hold on one second. Let's see here.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Going to my little future programming doc here. Hold on.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Stay with me. Stay with me, guys. Yeah, Reggie Watts,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: October 25th. God, it's already the end of October. This
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Reggie Watts episode is a banger. It's one of my
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: favorite new episodes that we've done in the last few years.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: The Reggie Watts story is completely fucked up, guys. Mainly
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: because it's one of these stories where the guy presents
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: himself as one thing, and if what they say about
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: him is true, he is completely something else. And the
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: accusations around him and the death of his ex-girlfriend, recent ex-girlfriend,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: It came out in Rolling Stone. We get into that.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: I do it all through the point of view of
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: Reggie's memoir, his autobiography. There's a lot of quotes in
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: that Rolling Stone expose that came out from people who
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: were friends of Catherine McCullough, Reggie Watts' ex-girlfriend. I've also
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: had people who know Reggie Watts quite well reach out
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: to me and just unsolicited offer me up information about
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: this dude. You know, drugs and psychedelia are at the
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: core of this story. So is sort of another theme
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: is the sort of Gen X 90s of it all.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: And it's all made extra compelling by the fact that,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: you know, whatever you think of this incident with Reggie
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: Watts and Catherine McCullough, you cannot deny the fact that
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Reggie Watts, his talent is through the roof and he
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: is sort of a singular type of entertainer. From the
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: history of entertainment. So this is a fascinating story and
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: I'm really proud of the way it came together. I'm
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: proud of the work that the team did here. All
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: of us on the audio and the video side. Yes,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: the video side. More on that later. But Reggie Watts
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: is coming up next week and I can't wait for
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: you to hear that. But like I said, Alice Cooper. Now,
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: a lot of rock stars checked themselves into rehab. Alice
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Cooper checked himself into an insane asylum instead. At first,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: he was just trying to get sober. But as he
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: got to know the other patients in the asylum, he
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: realized that the hospital is full of characters whose stories
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: were stranger than fiction. And he knew that he could
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: use this to his advantage. There was one dude in
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: there who talked incessantly about his dog. There was an L.A.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: socialite who seemed determined to destroy her own life. A
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Vietnam vet was haunted by the men that he killed.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Alice Cooper, writer that he is, he documented it all.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: He carried a pen and paper everywhere that he went
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: in the asylum, even into the padded cell. Not because
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: he'd been sent there or anything, but because it was
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: a quiet place where he could write lyrics. And that's
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: what he was doing. He was putting together his next record.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: The result was From the Inside, a concept album built
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: around the lives of the patients that Alice had encountered
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: inside that asylum. all made possible by his unorthodox decision
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: to get sober in there. So that is some of
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: what's in the Alice Cooper episode for you guys this week.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: If you have not heard it, I highly recommend you
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: do so. Also going to get into his battle with
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: a demon. All right. Who doesn't like that in the
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Halloween season? That's top of your feed right now. And
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: like I said, come up next in your feed right
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: after that. In the rewind slot, we've got two ACDC episodes. Now, 1985,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: there was a serial killer. He was out in Los
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Angeles and he left his ACDC hat at the scene
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: of the murder that he had just committed. ACDC was
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: not only your favorite band, it was also the serial
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: killer's favorite band as well. The killer believed that Satan
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: spoke to him through ACDC's songs. He listened to Highway
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: to Hell. He recited the lyrics to Night Prowler. as
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: he was hunting his victims. He was soundtracking his murders
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: with ACDC, quite literally. The killer was Richard Ramirez, aka
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: the Night Stalker. But the connection between ACDC and the
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Night Stalker went way beyond music. Now, on the cover
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: of Highway to Hell, you can see Bon Scott in
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: that iconic photo. He's wearing a pentagram around his neck.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Richard Ramirez, the Night Stalker, he carved a pentagram into
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: one of the victim's bodies. He painted a pentagram in
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: blood on another victim's wall, and he carved a pentagram
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: into the palm of his own hand. And when the
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: media discovered the connection between the killer and the band
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: because of this hat, ACDC was held at fault by
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: the press for supposedly influencing the Night Stalker murders. The press,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: as is often the case, was being foolish and more
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: concerned with crafting a scary narrative to sell newspapers. than
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: they were in telling the truth. Now, the truth was
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: that ACDC was just one of the greatest rock and
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: roll bands on the planet. Lots of people loved their music,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: even serial killers. Yes, but the truth did not matter.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: The narrative is what mattered to the media. The media
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: coverage transformed the Night Stalker, Richard Ramirez, who kind of
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: looked like ACDC's former and recently deceased singer, Bon Scott.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: The media coverage transformed Richard Ramirez into a kind of
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: demonic rock star. Women wrote to him, pledging their love
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: to him. They sent him nudes. They hung around the
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: courtroom trying to get a glimpse of him while he
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: was on trial. For a moment, the courtroom stage there,
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: it allowed Richard Ramirez to fill the void left by
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Bon Scott and the Night Stalker had become the rock star,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: at least figuratively speaking. So perhaps, as Bon Scott sang
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: in 1977, hell ain't a bad place to be. To
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: hear the full ACDC story and the connection to Richard Ramirez,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: you got to listen to the Rewind episodes this weekend, people.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: All right?
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Get in there. Now, is Reggie Watts the dude your
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: mother warned you and your sister about? That's what we're
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out next week in the Reggie Watts episode.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know. You like me? You got sisters? Or
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: perhaps you're not like me at all, or you are,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: but you're a woman. And my mom was always, I
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: can just remember her warning my sisters constantly, stay away
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: from this dude, stay away from that dude. And that's
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: what made me, that's sort of the lens that I
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: look at this Reggie Watts story because he presents so differently.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Is Reggie Watts the dude your mother warned you and
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: or your sister about? Reggie Watts presents himself as the
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: oversized teddy bear whose absurdist comedy and music skyrocketed him
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: to Comedy Bang Bang fame and then to become the
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: band leader on James Corden's Late Late Show. As I
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: mentioned before, though, there are those who accuse him of
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: pushing his ex-girlfriend, Catherine McCullough, into heavy drug use and
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: then eventually abandoning her during a mental health crisis that
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: they believe led to her suicide. Now, Reggie Watts is
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: a Gen X kid, okay? Like me, like a lot
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: of you. He grew up worshiping John Hughes films. You
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: can read about that in his autobiography, in his memoir.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: On the surface, Reggie Watts is lovable, okay? Like Ferris Bueller,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: like Ducky. But I want to know, is he more
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: like The Breakfast Club's Johnny Bender? John Bender. I call
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: him Johnny Bender. I believe his actual character name is
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: John Bender. You know who I'm talking about. The bad dude.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: The one that your mom warned you about. But perhaps,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: as we unpack in this episode, he's more like a
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: different 80s character. A different, complex, sinister character from the 1980s.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: We're going to unpack the dark past of Reggie Watts
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: and the accusations against him in this upcoming episode of
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Disgraceland coming next week. I cannot wait. for you to
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: hear that. And that's going to be our question of
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: the week for next week as well. And you're listening
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: to the episode. I want to know, what do you think?
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Is Reggie Watts the dude your mom warned you and
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: or your sister about? Or do we have it wrong?
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Do his accusers have it wrong? Do we got it
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: all wrong with this guy? Do I have it all wrong?
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: I think you can tell which way I'm leaning. Anyways,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: we're going to get into all that. Check it out.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: All right, guys, I'm going to take a quick break.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: back after this with some exciting news and also going
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: to get into your DMs, your phone calls, your text,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: your voice messages, emails, all that coming up right after this.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: All right, guys, we are back. And I am psyched
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: this week because we, all of us, we won three
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Signal Awards. All right. The Signal Awards are a big
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: deal in the podcast industry. Don't ask me why. They
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: just are. That's what people tell me. And this shit matters.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Matters for a lot of reasons. Mostly, it matters because
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: you love this show. You show up for the show
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: every week. And the show has been recognized not just
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: by industry peers, the judges, all that, but also by
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: the listeners, by you guys. We won three awards. We
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: took home the gold for best music podcast, the show,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Obama's Higher Ground Company, their limited series on Fela Kuti.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: They won for limited series. We won for best show,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: which is huge. Took home the gold. We also got
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: listener's choice in that category, which means we not only
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: won the gold, which was an award given by the judges,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: but You guys showed up and you voted and we
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: won the Listener's Choice Award for Best Music Podcast as well,
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: which people tell me who are in the know that
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: that's an even bigger deal. Feels like it because you
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: guys are involved. Finally, we won the silver for best
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: writing for the Patti Smith episode that I wrote and
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: that the team here at Double Elves put together. And
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: I look at it more as just a recognition of
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: our writing in general, mine and Zeth's. Zeth has written
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: some incredible episodes of Disgraceland. I recorded one yesterday on
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Karen Carpenter that I cannot wait for you to hear.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: He's got a new one on Buddy Holly as well
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: that is fucking great. The whole team here, we work
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: our ass off on this show every week. Matt Bowden,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Sean Cahalan, Jamie. runs operations. My dad does research for us.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: All of us here, Ryan Spraker helps out with the
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: music from time to time. And it feels great. I
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: almost forgot to mention Brett, our associate producer here. Just
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: been awesome. It's been awesome this week to get this recognition.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Because on the one hand, you could be like, oh,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: stop blowing smoke up your own ass. And I clearly
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: am blowing smoke up my own ass and the team's
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: ass right now. But it's also You guys know what
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: it's like. You get your head so far into something, man.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: You're so in it that it's hard to detach and
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: to actually go, look at what we're doing here. Look
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: at what we've made and look at how people are
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: enjoying it. And, you know, it doesn't happen. And these
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: things kind of help us take a moment and recognize
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: what we're making, how much we love making it, how
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: grateful we are for you guys and for our partners
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: at Exactly Right, our new partners at Exactly Right and iHeart.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: who have helped this whole thing grow even more over
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: the last year and brought in all these new listeners.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Thank you all. Appreciate you. Three Signal Awards. Pretty awesome. Now,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: you know what else is awesome? Your phone calls, your texts,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: your DMs, your voicemails. Let's get into them, shall we? Listen,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: quick note on the phone calls and the voicemails and
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: the texts. We do this question of the week. And oftentimes...
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: I record these after-party episodes right on the heels of
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: the new episode coming out. So oftentimes, you guys haven't
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: even heard the new episode before I'm recording this after-party.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: So the question of the week that was asked last
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: week often doesn't sort of generate the responses we want
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: until the week after. And I just say, fuck all that.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Who cares? Let's just talk about whatever. Obviously, answer the
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: question of the week. Call me. leave a voicemail, send
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: me a text, 617-906-6638. But I'm going to be less
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: interested in answering these things in sequential order, episodically or whatever.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: We just had this open conversation about music history and
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: true crime, and we're going to foster that, okay? Question
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: of the week, answer of the week, by all means,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: hit me up, but hit me up about anything and
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: we'll get to it, okay? Nothing is off topic is
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: my point. Now, this week, I asked in relation to
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: Alice Cooper, who's had one of the greatest second acts
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: In rock and roll. So this call, this answer comes
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: from Tony in the 206.
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: Jake, hey, what's up, man? Tony from the 206. Good
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: to hear from you. To answer your question, about who
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: has had the greatest second act, I definitely think that
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: if Kanye stays on the route that he is now,
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: he could definitely make that comeback. Now, will he, you know,
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: be the darling that everybody knew and loved? Perhaps his
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: last album was good. But I think the person that
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: had a great second act that honestly gets overlooked just
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: because of his legacy and everything he contributed is Prince.
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: And let me break it down. You see, Prince's last, like,
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: number one hit song was from the Diamond and Pearl era.
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: And one of his last albums that was on the
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: billboards in the 90s was the Emancipations album after his
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: acrimonious split from Warner Brothers. From that point on up
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: until about 2004, he would put out music and do tours,
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: but you never really heard about him. That wasn't until
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: 2004 when he put out Musicology, which was considered to
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: be his big comeback album, and an amazing album that was.
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: It won him, like, two Grammys, and it ended up
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: giving him his most successful tour, the Musicology tour. It
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: was actually called his most successful tour since Purple Rain.
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: So that's why I think it really had a good
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: second comeback that a lot of people kind of overlook. But, yeah,
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: that's just my take on it. Let me know what
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: you think of that. Always good to hear from you.
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: Rock and roll us.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Tony, I love this. I love this because it's one
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: of those things that I never would have thought of.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: And you know, you're absolutely right. And the other thing
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: I would add to what you said here about Prince
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: is that Prince also after musicology, after that era, he
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: sort of had become this, his cultural status had grown,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: had become much more of sort of a beloved icon.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Not that he wasn't always a beloved pop star. He was,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: but he kind of had this mythic thing that had
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: set in that wasn't truly there before. Great, great answer.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Love it. Thank you. Let's go to the 508 on
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: As I Lay Dying.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Hey, Jake. Mike from the 508. It's been a while
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: since I've talked to you directly. So the As I
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: Lay Dying episode, it really got me to thinking, I
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: wonder if you could do an episode on Shlomo Karabach.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: He provided a lot of the tunes that are absolutely
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: the backbone of Jewish liturgy, you know, like Shabbat morning
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: services and holidays. And the thing is, though, you know,
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: when he was around, he was, like, really friendly with everybody,
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: except apparently he was really handsy with the women and
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: girls there. I don't know if he actually raped anyone,
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: but I know there was a lot, a lot of
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: sexual harassment. So, worth looking into.
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: Okay, thanks.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Rock and roll. Okay, Mike, so we're talking about the
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: guy responsible for creating a lot of the music at
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: the core of Jewish liturgy. I believe that's what you're saying.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: And I wonder, though, what era are we talking about here?
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Where is the time period? This is interesting to me.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: I need to know more, Mike. 617-906-6638. Voicemail and text.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Hit me back. Give me a little more info on
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: this guy. And spell out his name for me, too,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: if you can. Hit me on text so I can
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: do a little research. All right. Let's check out the 9-2-0.
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: Greetings, fellow discos. This is Evermore, down low, in the 920,
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: talking about George Lynch, you know. And many great artists,
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: you don't have to like everything they do.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: I like George Lynch, but most of his shit, I
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: don't even understand.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: And getting to.
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: Another fantastic artist that I love is Trent Reznor.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: I love most of his shit, but I don't love everything.
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: Later.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Yo, Evermore, George Lynch... From Dokken? Is that what you're
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: talking about? The guitar player? Right? Are you bringing him
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: up because his daughter dated one of the guys in
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: As I Lay Dying? Is that what you're doing? Are
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: you being real cheeky? Trying to drop some knowledge on me?
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Trying to sneak one by the goalie, as they say?
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: I liked Dokken when they were around-ish. I can't say
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: I purposefully listened to them. I always thought George Lynch
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: was a great guitar player. Are we talking about the
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: same guy Trent Reznor too. Somebody else hit us up
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: about Trent Reznor and having the greatest second act in
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: relation to her Alice Cooper episode. And you know, I
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: don't know much about the fall of Trent Reznor. Speaking
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: of falls, this one comes from Blitz who writes in,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: Hey Jake, I love your show. I've listened since the
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: beginning out here in Bend, Oregon. Originally from Western New York.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: I don't understand how you can think Cobain took his
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: own life. It's just impossible for him to have. If
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: he just shot himself, maybe. If he just overdosed, maybe.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: But the way he was found, the overall weirdness of
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: the situation, Courtney's behavior at the time, literally how he
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: was found in the first place, a random electrician finding
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: him randomly. It just does an omelet. You can mix
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: it up every which way and how Kirk got to
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: where he was and how staged the scene seemed down
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: to the note. Okay, the note, the note I will
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: give you. The note is sketchy. I'll give you that.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: It doesn't compute. Okay. Okay, listen. Blitz, there are a
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: lot of things that don't compute. But when somebody takes
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: their own life, especially a globally recognized pop star, there's
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: going to be things that don't compute. The amount of
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: just eyes on this thing. People are going to find
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: things that aren't there. And so far, what nobody has
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: found is any actual evidence, besides handwriting that may look
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: like somebody else's handwriting, that they haven't found any actual
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: evidence that makes it clear that he did not kill himself.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: And I don't care. I read these articles every week.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: There's a new one in the New York Post yesterday.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: The New York Post is making a living off of
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Kurt Cobain clicks. Okay? It ain't happening, guys. It just
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: ain't happening. There's such a thing as circumstantial evidence, and
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: there's such a thing as hard evidence. They're different. And
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of circumstantial evidence here at Kurt Cobain.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: But I would contend that's because there's just a lot
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: of eyes that have been on this. When you get
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: so many people looking into something and they can just go, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: what about this? What about this? I don't really get
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: your point. He was on heroin so he couldn't shoot himself?
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: And I know he took a lot of heroin. I
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: know that. I know that about the situation. I know
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: it was a lot. But still, you got a few moments.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? You guys are further compelling
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: me into the Kurt Cobain, Courtney Love rabbit hole. Every week,
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: every week, 205 writes in a bit more on the
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: minor cheap trick reference from last week. I also remembered
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Mike Damone in Fast Times singing the Dream Police. So
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: I looked up the scene on YouTube. Damone actually referenced
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: three cheap trick songs in a row. I Want You
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: to Want Me, the Dream Police, and then Surrender. So, Zeth,
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: and Chris from Chicago were each remembering different parts of
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: the same spiel. The girl Damone is pitching the tickets
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: to said that's kid stuff, which reminded me that I
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: actually first saw Cheap Trick on the ABC Sunday morning
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: show Kids Are People Too when I was around seven
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: years old. Patrick in the 205. I remember Kids Are
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: People Too, vaguely. I can't imagine Cheap Trick being considered
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: a kids band, though. That's fucking wild. All right, bringing
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: it back to last week's As I Lay Dying episode.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: This one comes from the 207 via text. Hey, Jake,
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: I haven't written to you before, but I felt compelled
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: to share my thoughts on the As I Lay Dying episode.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: Growing up, I was exposed to a wide variety of
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Christian music, and although I haven't closely followed the Christian
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: music scene in recent years, I was deeply shocked when
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: the news broke in 2025 that Michael Tate, a prominent
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: member of the renowned Christian band DC Talk, was accused
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: of grooming and sexually assaulting three men, It was reported
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: that his drug use and abusive behavior were allegedly the
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: biggest open secret in Christian music. Somebody else wrote me
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: about this. As I'm reading this, I'm kind of like,
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: did I read this already? But I did not. But
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: somebody else mentioned this to me last week. I'm going
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: to go on to continue this text. 207 continues here.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: I was also reminded of John Steingard from the Christian
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: pop rock band Hawk Nelson, who publicly announced in 2020
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: that he no longer believed in God. Both of these
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: stories raise questions about authenticity and accountability in Christian music.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: These artists aren't just entertainers. They're often seen as role
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: models and representatives of the faith itself. And that status
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: can create strong incentives to maintain their image, whether by
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: concealing a loss of faith or allowing misconduct to go
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: unchallenged to protect someone's reputation. I'm curious to know how
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: often the desire to preserve that image comes at the
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: expense of honesty, accountability, and the very values these artists
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: claim to represent. Well, right there, I have an answer.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: I believe it happens a lot. 207 goes on to say,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: I really appreciate the stories you tell because I think
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: many people believe that being a rock star is glamorous,
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: but the reality shows that it's often far from that.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Keep up the amazing show that you're doing. You got it, 207.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much. And you're right. Rock stardom does
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: seem glamorous. And I think about this a lot now
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: because if I'm being honest, I quite like my life.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: I'm very blessed. I'm very grateful to live the life
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: that I live. My family brings me tremendous joy every day.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: My kids blow my fucking mind. And we're in a
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: great season of our family life right now that is
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: completely consumed by my kids' activities and, a lot of
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: sort of the fun early stuff when you're a young
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: couple without kids. That's sort of not what this is
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: about right now, but still it is absolutely incredible. And
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: every week I'm reading about these rock stars. Right now
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: I'm reading about Mary Lou, excuse me, Marianne Faithfull and
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: her time uh, sort of caught up in the whole
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: steam of the Rolling Stones, uh, swinging London era. And
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: it was a time that I, that I, that I
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: used to romanticize, you know, I would have, there's a
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: time in my life when I would have given anything
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: to trade places with Keith Richards or Mick Jagger. But
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: as I read this now, fuck no, man, just God, no,
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: absolutely not. I don't think I've read, yeah, I've read
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: a couple, you know, Alex James from Blur, his book.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: There's a couple autobiographies from rock stars where they make
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: being a rock star seem really, truly great. I'm trying
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: to think of one that marries rock stardom with family life.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: And I don't know that that quite exists. I'm sure
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: it does. I just can't think of it offhand. But
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: we do romanticize this stuff. And the further away I
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: get from that, the less romantic it seems. And the
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: further I get into the research here, obviously, the less
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: romantic it seems. You talk about here, 207, you say,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: I'm curious to know how often the desire to preserve
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: that image comes at the expense of honesty, accountability, and
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: the very values these artists claim to represent. You're talking
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: about this in the context of faith and religion when
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: it comes to Christian metal. the Christian music scene. But
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: I think that the way you just put that can
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: be put on any musician whose image, and this goes
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: for most of them, their image becomes the thing and
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: they have to live up to that. No matter what
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: it is, Alice Cooper, shock rock, or even like a
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: hardcore band who's still out there being hard at 60,
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: jumping around on stage, or whatever it is. Whatever the
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: image is, I guess we're not meant to be one thing.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: We contain multitudes. You know what I'm saying? As it
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: pertains to these Christian guys, it's a whole other thing.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: Because faith, I believe, is a very personal thing. And
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: navigating that through fame is quite something else. 617-906-6638, voicemail
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: and text at disgracelandpod, DMs disgracelandpod at gmail.com. We'll be
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: back right after this with more from you. All right, guys,
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: we're back. Thanks for joining us at DisgracelandPod on the socials.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: I have to say, all the activity on Instagram lately,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: it's been pretty overwhelming. That Screaming Jay Hawkins story we
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: told in the podcast, but then we made a little
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: micro version of the kid thing, the 57 kids on Instagram.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: And holy cow, did that bring in a lot of
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: new listeners. And the comments are fucking hysterical. As I
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: Lay Dying as well, opened us up to some new
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: listeners via the gram. Appreciate you all. Any of you
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: who are into the after party here for the first time,
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: thanks for joining us. You can hit us up on
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: Instagram or any of the other socials as you wish,
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: but you can also call us, 617-906-6638, voicemail and text.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: And of course, you can also email us, disgracelandpod at gmail.com.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: And we're talking about musicians with great second acts. of
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: Alice Cooper. Got this email from Michelle. Michelle writes in,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: hey Jake, enjoying Disgraceland, listening to every episode. It's a
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: great concept and I learned a lot about many musicians
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: I like and ones I don't and or didn't know
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: much about previously. Here are some musicians that resurrected their
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: careers that came back from the dead. Well, maybe not
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: literally everyone, but here are a few that came to mind.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: Iggy Pop, thanks to David Bowie in his time in Berlin.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: Stevie Nicks, Silver Springs, her jumping off point from Fleetwood Mac.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: Ozzy Osbourne, after nearly dying in an LA hotel, the
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: Bark at the Moon era. George Harrison. Paul McCartney. Enough said.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: Roy Orbison. Yeah. Bob Dylan. Okay. ABBA. Don't know about ABBA,
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: but I'm curious. Look forward to hearing from the rest
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: of your audience on this subject. Rock a roll. Michelle. Guys,
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: I'm still taking answers to the question, which artists have
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: had the greatest second acts? Get back to us like
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: Michelle at DisgracelandPod or 617-906-6638. You know I'm here for
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: your Kurt Cobain commentary as well. I see you, Stanley Starbuck.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: Thank you for the email. It's a little long. I
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: might respond next week or I might just respond via email.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: Appreciate it. This email comes from Trey Smith. Subject, Anthony Kiedis.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: Recently found your podcast and love the content and production.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: After listening to several episodes, I searched for an episode
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: on Anthony Kiedis. I did hear the River Phoenix episode
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: and would love to hear something on Anthony. His autobiography,
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Scar Tissue, is pretty wild. Thank you, Trey. It is
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: indeed pretty fucking wild. I've read most of it. And yeah,
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: there's an episode there. I don't quite know how to
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: tell it yet. I don't really know how to present
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: it beside the whole... I mean, his upbringing is pretty fascinating.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: His father... The young girl stuff is, God, I got
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: my head too much in that lately with the Jared
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: Leto thing. But Trey, perhaps sometime soon. Definitely sometime soon.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Shout out to Sarah Lenga, new Patreon member. Thanks for
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: becoming a member and supporting us, Sarah. Shout out to
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: Christina Staggemeier. Christina, thanks for checking us out on Patreon.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: Fran Marks. Coming in at the $ 100 level. Dang, Fran.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: Appreciate you. If you guys want to become All Access members,
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: you can do so for as little as, gosh, golly,
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: a dollar a month, right? You can become a free
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: member as well. Just kind of snoop around. Or you
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: can support us at various levels. Go to disgracesandpod.com to
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: sign up. You're going to unlock ad-free listening. You're going
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: to unlock exclusive content like the conversation I'm about to
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: have with Zeth right here in the after party. And
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: you're also If you can't get enough of Zeth and
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: I throughout the week, right, in the exclusive section of
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: the After Party or in the Hollywoodland feed where Zeth
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: puts two episodes out per week, the wrap party in
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: the screening room, plus we have an archive episode that
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: sort of thematically frames the whole week for you, our
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: sort of Hollywood and true crime play over there in
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: the Hollywoodland feed. Make sure you're subscribed on Apple Podcasts
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. But I'm in there
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: with Zeth and the wrap party giving my recommendations. And
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: if that's not enough for you, and I know it's not,
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: We have our This Film Should Be Played Loud video podcast.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: It comes out once a month. And this month being Halloween,
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: we're discussing Shaun of the Dead. Okay, that's coming at
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: you next week. Going to be an all-access member to
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: cop that. Fran, I see you, buddy. This might be
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: your first This Film Should Be Played Loud. Hope you
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: enjoy it. Go to disgracelandpod.com to sign up and support
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: the show. We appreciate all you discos who are supporting
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: us at all access on either Apple Podcasts or Patreon.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much.
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: All right, guys, we are back.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: Thank you once again for joining us in the after party.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: We're coming up on 300 episodes. We're going to hit
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: that 300 episode mark in January or February. I count
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: episodes as fully scripted episodes. I don't count these bonus episodes.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: They're bonus episodes. 300 scripted episodes, man. That's a fucking lot.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: That's a lot. You'll be new here. There's a lot
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: of episodes in the archive on artists from almost every
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: genre from music. Check that out. If you've got any
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: questions on specific artists you're interested in, hit me up.
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: 617-906-6638.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: Voicemail and text. at DisgracelandPod on the socials. I can
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: point you in the right direction. Let's recap because I
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: got to get out of here. All right. Number one,
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: this week, our new episode on Alice Cooper is available
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: for you right now in the Rewind slot. Number two
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: in the Rewind slot, our classic episode on ACDC. That's
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: parts one and two. Next, number three, coming up, our
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: new episode on Reggie Watts. And I can't wait for
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: you to hear this. Number four, Zeth gives you those
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: Hollywood and crime vibes in the Hollywoodland feed. So make
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: sure you subscribe. Number five, current This Film Should Be
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: Played Loud video podcast episode on on Shaun of the
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: Dead is coming your way next week. Gross Point Blank
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: is available for you to watch right now if you
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: haven't already. Number six, 617-906-6638. Your voice keeps us digging
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: into the dark corners of music history, so keep calling,
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: keep texting with your answers to this week's question of
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: the week or with whatever else you want to talk about.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: Number seven, don't forget discos. This isn't just content. It's
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: a community, a community of the obsessed, and no one
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: cares about music, books, records, and the crime and grime.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: It ties them all together like you do, and, well,
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: that's a disgrace. Back on April 6th, 1988, Alice Cooper
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: finally flushes drugs down the toilet. And this is what
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: America was listening to on that day according to the
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: Billboard charts. Number one, Get Out of My Dream. get
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: into my car. Billy Ocean, last week. Three, peak position. One,
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: weeks on chart. Nine, number two, man in the mirror.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: Michael Jackson, last week. One, peak position. One, weeks on chart.
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: Ten, ten.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: Number three, out of the blue, Debbie Gibson. Last week, four.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: Peak position, three. Weeks on chart, 11. Number four, devil inside,
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: in excess. Last week, seven. Peak position, four. Weeks on chart, nine.
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: Number five. Quit talking and start mixing.