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High Diver Molly Carlson on Being Scared and Doing It Anyway · Mind Over Mountain

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Hi, everyone.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Mind Over Mountain with me, Cheryl Strayed. This week,
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: my guest is elite high diver, Molly Carlson. Molly and
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: I talk about her amazing career leaping off of very
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: high platforms and cliffs about what it takes to do
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: the scariest things and how to love yourself. Let's listen
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: to our conversation. Molly Carlson, welcome to Mind Over Mountain.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: Thank you. I'm so excited.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Well, so am I, because I've just really had so
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: much fun over these past.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: few weeks watching you.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Day by day build up to doing that amazing high
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: dive from that 27 meter platform.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Congratulations on that.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: Thank you. It's so interesting because I'm such a fan
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: of you. So for you to have DM to me
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: on Instagram saying congrats on your 27 meter dive, I
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: was like, is this real life right now? But it
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: was so scary, but so worth it. I'm glad it
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: brought me together with you today. Yeah.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: And I loved our exchange because, I mean, I think
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: it's really wonderful. You know, we have this kind of
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: mutual fan society, right? And I really am inspired by you.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: I have to admit. So we're talking about on Instagram
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: is where I saw you. You know, you were recording
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: this series of dives you did from, you know, working
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: your way up to that 27 meter.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: And every one of them just terrified me.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, really, like we're going to get into that
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: more in a minute. But I think, Molly, the quality
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: that I that I feel so inspired by is is
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: exactly this thing that you so love. you know, readily
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: engage with, you know, you're on that video saying, I'm terrified,
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: but I'm going to do it. Oh, yeah. And then
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: you do it. I mean, it was just so cool,
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: you know, because of course, courage isn't about not having fear.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: It's about like having that fear and doing it anyway, right?
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: Exactly. I think a lot of people forget that you're
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: allowed to have fear. A lot of people think as
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: extreme athletes or not extreme athletes, like you're living with
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: fear every day, but it's like how you can handle
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: it that makes you different. And I think we've really
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: learned as high divers how to be comfortable with fear.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: And to me, what's scarier is not knowing, you know,
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: my anxious feelings. I'd way rather jump off a cliff
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: than deal with my mental health, but we got to
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: be here. We got to do it all. So I
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: think it's really fascinating to put yourself in those environments
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: and then prove to yourself that you can be scared
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: and do it anyways. Yeah.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: And you do it over and over again.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Um, and I'm really curious about that because honestly, like
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: when I watch you even standing on the platform, I'm
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: not even talking about diving off.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Just being up there, like the mother in me just
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: wants to actually like tackle you and snatch you back
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: from the edge.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: No, you and my mom will be best friends. Okay.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: I'm with your mom.
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: And And meanwhile, you're just like, la, la, la. And
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: you go and you're like standing with your toes on
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: the thing and your.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: Heels off it. It's awful. I think we all need
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: to get Cheryl to jump off of a platform. What
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: height would you do? For sure the one meter, the
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: three meter. You could do it.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I do remember. I mean, it's funny.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: You just I do remember as a kid, you know,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: like remember it like some swimming pools would have those
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: like those like really, you know, sort of high platforms.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know how high they were, but.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: It would be like, you know, the kids would be
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: climbing up and then there was always the kid who
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: would get out to the edge and then like chicken
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: out and everyone would have.
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: To get off. But they knew their level.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: They're like, you know, they get up there. And I
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: was maybe one of those kids.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: But but I, you know, I'm curious about that aspect
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: in you that you, you know, how did you come
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: to embrace this sport that is scary and not just.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Scary to like most people, but even scary to you?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, this sport is it's a whole other level of fear.
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  Speaker 3: And I think Unfortunately, I found myself really loving these
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: life or death experiences because I'm so in the moment.
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: I'm someone that lives with extreme anxiety every single day.
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  Speaker 3: So for me to finally have a brain that's quiet
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  Speaker 3: ever since I was young, I've been super anxious since
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: 10 years old and wanted to be perfect and this perfectionism.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: But as soon as I stand on the edge of
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: those platforms, my brain is finally at peace and And
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: everything in my head is just focused on how do
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: I do the safest dive possible? And so for me,
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: it's been my safe space diving, no matter how chaotic
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: home life was, no matter how crazy school or pressure,
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: I could always rely on diving to just give me
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: that Just that moment of, wow, I'm really doing this.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: I'm in the moment. This is my time to not
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: be on social media, to not be listening to the noise.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: It's just time for me to be in the air
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: and have nothing going on that's like stressing me out.
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: I know being on the edge of a cliff should
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: stress you out. For me, it's just been my silence.
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: And I've fallen in love with that because it's just
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: helped me through a lot of things, for sure.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: And do you think that's about.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: The fact that in order to do it as well
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: as you do, and maybe even just to do it
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: at all, it takes an enormous amount of focus and attention.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Do you think that like if one theory of anxiety
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: is this sense of like chaos, right?
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: That you do have.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: To execute with such precision and attention.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: What is your theory of why this feels like your
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: safe place?
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: Oh, I think attention and focus is so crucial in
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: this sport because obviously if your attention's somewhere else, for example,
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: I was at world championships. I was about to win
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: the whole thing and I got in my own head
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: and they called my name and I was like, I
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: could win this, I could win this. And your attention
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: is focused on other things instead of the safety of
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: the dive. And so because I thought I had it
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: in the bag and I was concentrating on it, What
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: are people going to think if I'm world champion? And
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: all these different thoughts that we have three seconds to
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: perform a safe dive. If your brain is focused on
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: 18 other things, you're not going to land safely. So
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: I ended up landing super short of vertical. It hurt
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: my chest. Like I had to get checked out by
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: the physicians there. And it's just it's so important and
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: crucial that if you're not locked in and focused in
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: the moment, you will hurt yourself in this sport as
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: well as like filming for social media. Like I have
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: to make sure that the people on those platforms with me,
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: like I had my boyfriend on the 27 meter platform
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: with me because I don't trust anyone else in my
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: bubble anymore. like he is also a world champion cliff diver.
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: So he kind of understands that flow state. And if
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: I'm nervous, if I'm getting into that flow, he's not
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: going to say anything. And I think just having the
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: right kind of attention when you're going off to do
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: these extreme dives is so important. But you also have
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: to listen to If those brains, like if everything in
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: your head is saying it doesn't feel right, I think
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: it's important to listen to those and walk down. I've
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: walked down many times, just like you, girl.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're like, you've made all the kids get off
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: the ladder.
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  Speaker 3: Of course.
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  Speaker 1: But which is a really fascinating thing. I mean, I
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: think really.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: truly one of the most fascinating things about you, Molly,
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  Speaker 2: to me is this, you know, all of these things
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: that seem like opposite sit very close beside each other
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  Speaker 2: in you, you know, like this wild, this wild, crazy
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  Speaker 2: courage to just like, let's just go fling myself off
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: a really high thing and sail through the air.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: And you always saying, I'm scared, I'm anxious, I'm, you know,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: all of this.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: And, you know, I'm curious about your relationship with fear, like,
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: you know, how do you discern between what you just said,
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: like that feeling where you're like, okay, something's not right.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: And of course, I'm afraid I'm about to do a
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: scary thing. Let's, let's not listen to that scared voice. Like,
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: how do you discern between the two kinds of fear,
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: if you will, the fear that will harm you and
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: the fear that.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Will hold you back?
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: This is a brilliant question. I think a lot of
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: people see fear online as failures. And for me, I
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: feel like I've grown so much from things that haven't
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: gone perfectly. I mean, everyone in sports, anyone who's failed
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: anything or failed a test, like you actually feel more
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: from that and you grow from that. But for me,
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: I feel a huge difference in I'm prepared for this.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: I'm just nervous versus I don't feel completely prepared for
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: Maybe going today isn't a smart decision. And what's amazing
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: about kind of the trajectory of this sport, it's still
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: a very new sport. So we're finding a lot of,
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: you know, you're seeing a lot of cliff jumping online
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  Speaker 3: of people just.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Send it.
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  Speaker 3: It's not my cup of tea, but like some people
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: are sendy, but I like to prepare for six months
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: for one rep. You know what I mean? This 27
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: meter dive, I've been preparing to slow my rotation, to
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: take an impact harder. And for over six months and
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: me and my coach, we come up with these extremely
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: calculated preparation techniques. And if we get all the way
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: and I'm physically prepared, and my mental is still not prepared,
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: then I'm still not jumping that day. I think you
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: need that combination of physical and mental preparation to do
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: anything in this world. I think so many of us
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: forget that the mental side of preparation is half the battle.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: And talking to sports psychs, talking to So many people
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: in your team, in your corner to help you achieve
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: something is way better in my circumstances than feeling alone
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: up on that platform. I love feeling like there's so
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: many people with me. I think that's why I made
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: that 20-day countdown going into 27 Meter because I had...
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: millions of people cheering me on because they wanted to
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: stand on that platform with me. And to me, that
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: helps is when you're extremely prepared, but you know in
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: your gut if you're not ready for something physically or mentally.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: And I think the people that jump when their gut
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: isn't right, that's when they get extremely injured. So you
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: just have to You have to play with the fine
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: lines for sure. Yeah.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: And I would say I would extend that that word
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: jump to not just its literal meaning.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, one of the core truths of my life
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: that I've come to understand is, you know, if I
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: don't feel right in my gut about something, whether it
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: be a relationship, a job, like, you know, a stranger
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: walking up to me, like trust that because it's really
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: never been wrong.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: Exactly. Now your gut, we always say trust your gut,
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: but you like literally have to, whether it's, it's on
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: the ground or 20 meters high, like there's so many
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: things that you need to feel good on the inside
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: before you go for something.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: So you did do this 20-day countdown. It was really
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: fun watching. I hope my listeners will go on your
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Instagram page and feed or whatever the kids are calling
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: it these days and watch those videos of you as
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: you do work your way up to that high level.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: And it's scary and And then it's really beautiful.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: And I especially loved then later when you went in
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: and you showed us in slow motion your dog.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Because it's like, wow, it's absolutely the most graceful kind
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: of flying.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: You're really a gymnast in the air.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: How do you break it down for us?
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: How do you prepare to do these? And, you know,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: first of all, I want to say, too, High dive,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: cliff diving. Is that the same thing? Different terminology? Great question. Yeah.
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: So high diving and cliff diving is basically depends what
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: you're jumping off. So there's a high diving circuit, which
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: is typically always a platform. You do four platform dives
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: into typically a pool. It's more the safer route, and
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: it's typically the athletes that come from traditional Olympic diving.
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: And then there's cliff diving, which is your high dives
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: on steroids because you're jumping off of literal rocks or waterfalls.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: Or sometimes Red Bull calls us, and they're like, can
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: you just do this dive out of a helicopter in
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: two sharks? I'm like, I'm okay.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: You draw the line.
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: And I did that. You paid double, right? Exactly. But no,
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: I think it's so fascinating that the walk up to
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: the high dives, people are like, wow, you must be
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: so you know, calm. I'm like, there's zero part of
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: my brain that's comfortable. Like every single, there's 88 steps
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: on the way up to that 27 meter. And every
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: step I was probably like, I can turn around. I
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: could get a real job. I could get an office job.
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, what should I do? I need to
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: call my mom. Like everything in your kind of animal
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: brain and your realist brain is telling you like, there's
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: no need to do this. But then you're It's the
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: heart that almost keeps you going. And that's where I
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: find myself. As long as the excitement outweighs the fear,
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: magical things can happen. And that's beautiful to me. As
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: soon as I put it, that video in slow motion
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: is exactly how I felt the dive in real time.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: It felt like I was in the air for an hour.
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: Like I had never jumped that high. I was so
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: ready for it. I was so nervous, of course, if
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: my body was going to be able to handle that,
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: but we did everything we could to prepare. And as
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: soon as my toes, like turning around, going backwards, I
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: was going to throw up. And then I was like, okay,
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: trust the training. As soon as my toes left the platform,
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: just pure bliss, like everything, my body just knew what
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: to do. And it was that feeling of flying. It
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: was just me and the air and I could enjoy
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: the moment. And I'm so glad people felt that as well.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: And yet you're moving through an extremely specific series of,
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: you know, how do you train for that? Like, to me,
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: it looks like gym, gymnast training, like that you're spending
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: a lot of time tumbling and flipping and cartwheeling and
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: those things on the ground.
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: There's so much that goes into this sport. It's definitely
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: a lot of conditioning, strength training, physiotherapy. You're doing trampoline.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: You're doing gymnastics on the ground. You're working those cartwheels
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: because at the end of every high dive is that
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: cartwheel branny maneuver, we call it. And to me, it's
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: just playing like, To be 28 years old and to
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: play is my job. Like, this is really beautiful. And
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: I feel like I'm finally giving little Molly, who had
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: a tough time, finally that platform to just be herself
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: and enjoy. So... It's come full circle and I've really
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: enjoyed it.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: That's beautiful.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about little Molly. You, you know, you're
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: Canadian first.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: Is that right?
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: I am.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, I think you grew up in Thunder Bay.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: I did.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: And when I was from northern Minnesota. I was reading
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: a while just to be like, let me come back.
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: And I was like, no way. She's from northern Mississippi.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I mean, we grew up a few hours apart.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: I went on like a 600 mile bicycle trip and
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: went through Thunder Bay.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: I was in my 20s.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: And I spent a couple nights in Thunder Bay. Like
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: out on some kind of like near the water, out
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: on some dock. I can't remember where I was exactly.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: But but so, yeah, like we're we're just I mean, hey,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: we go.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: We're neighbors.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: I always consider myself basically an honorary Canadian because you're
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: northern Minnesota from northern Minnesota.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: It's Canada, basically.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. And you have the harsh Thunder Bay winters like it's.
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: And the Lake Superior is so cold.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Lake Superior is so cold.
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: So you get that wind and it's like negative 50.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: I don't know what that is in Fahrenheit, but it's crazy.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Actually, it's funny you should mention right before our conversation started,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: one of my producers was asking me about Lake Superior.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: And I was like, no, you'll like die in like
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: 15 minutes of hypothermia.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: It's insane.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: No cliff jumping in Thunder Bay.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: No cliff jumping. But how did you begin?
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, you did begin as a traditional springboard and
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: platform diver.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: But before that, I think you were into gymnastics. Is
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: that right?
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: I was. So I had teenage parents, which was pretty tricky.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: They had me at 18 and my sister at 16.
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: And so we kind of grew up in this world
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: where we didn't really have the budget to be doing
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: so many sports. My mom said, okay, I know your
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: girls are really active kids, but you get to choose
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: one sport. And it was like such a dream. We
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: got to go like twice a week. I chose gymnastics.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: I was like, I definitely want to flip my body
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: around and just see what I can do. I'm super
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: competitive person. And my sister chose swimming. And I would
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: always have to go to the pool and watch her practice.
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, respectfully, this is the most boring sport
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: to watch. It's like, I love you, Megan, but watching
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: you just do this. And then out of the corner
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: of my eye, I see these girls my age jumping
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: from really high platforms. I'm like, mom, I would love
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: to try. And she's like, well, we can't afford both.
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: You have to choose one or the other. And at
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: nine years old, I was like, this is the hardest
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: decision of my life. You're such a bitch for making
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: me choose. And then she's like, no, you can do it.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: And so I decided to choose diving. And it was
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: from there, just this beautiful, beautiful, just kind of trajectory.
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: It was really smooth at the beginning where I was
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: just constantly reaching new heights, the youngest girl to ever
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: jump off the 10 meter platform in Thunder Bay, which
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: was very easy. There's no one in Thunder Bay. But
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: it was just so fun. And I loved it. Like,
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: It was just immediately kind of successful, which is weird
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: at a young age to be quickly successful. I think
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: the pressures definitely come around the corner quickly, but I
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: fell in love right there and then jumping off that
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: 10 meter platform because that same thing, it's just that
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: moment of bliss to yourself. You're flying and it just,
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: it was really special.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: Well, and I think too, at a young age, when
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: you realize you're really good at something, there is that like,
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: affirmation and validation that feels like nothing else.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: And you're like, okay, I did this. I can do this.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: I'm going to keep doing it.
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: And then in front of.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: The girls, the boys, I'm like, am I cooler than you? Yeah.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: And yeah, that, that kind of positive attention, it becomes
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: like almost like a kind of nourishment in some ways.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Which can backfire too.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Like if you get too connected to like, everyone expects
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: me to win.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Everyone expects me to do well. I mean, you did.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: Mention that you're a perfectionist and you know, that is
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: such a, like, I think anyone who struggles with perfectionism,
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: it's like you, you, that both can be a great,
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: you know, driver to like help you toward, you know,
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: your achievements. It can also hold you back because you
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: do get in your head about that. How have you
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: reckoned with that.
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: In your life? And being a perfectionist since like zero
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: years old has been, Definitely a journey because being in
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: a sport where you're told you're not perfect every single
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: day is humbling. So you're chasing this 10 that just
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: like rarely exists in the sport of diving. You're being
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: told that, oh yeah, today you're a seven. I'm like, great.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: What do you mean?
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: And you're, you know, you're young and you're 12 and
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: you're being told like, wow, you're... that was a five.
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: And you're like, okay, I'm literally giving my all. And
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: judge sports just come with this, this territory of not
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: feeling like you're enough from a really young age. And
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: that was hard because so much training and so much
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: goes into this. You're now showing up at the pool
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: five days a week and you're putting in four hours
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: a day just to launch yourself over and over again
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: to try to perfect these skills. And then you go
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: to a competition and you just get a good old
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: five out of 10 and you're like, wow, I'm confused.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: Like so much effort goes into just being told you're
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: not perfect. And if you're comfortable with being not perfect,
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: good for you. But if you want to be perfect
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: and you thrive for that kind of feeling of just
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: like really perfect success, then it can be really tricky.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: And so I definitely found myself in that category of
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: loving but hating the sport at the same time. I
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: think I truly loved the sport always, but then the
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: competing and the fear of failure and this kind of
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: loss of love for competition happened at like 12 and 13.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: And you found yourself, I found myself crying very often
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: because I was just, you never know what's going to
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: happen when they call your name under pressure. Yeah. Right.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: And like what number is going to be assigned to
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: your performance?
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: Right. So definitely tricky.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, and yet you have so many, like so
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: many achievements in your back pocket, right?
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: You know, you did, you were a seven time champion.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Canadian junior national champion. You went on to Florida State
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: University and became really one of their most accomplished divers.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: You were a five-time NCAA All-American and many other things.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Am I right about this?
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: You did try to make the Olympic team in 2016
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: and just fell short, finishing fourth. You set your sights
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: on that and didn't get what you wanted. your experiences
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: of success and your experiences of failure. What I'm curious
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: about is, and of course, since then, you've had many,
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: many of both probably, right? What have those things taught you?
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: What have they given you as an athlete and a human?
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: I feel like, unfortunately, my failures did teach me more
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: and helped me love a deeper version of myself because
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: for me, no matter what I was achieving, I still
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: felt this dark feeling of not being enough. And that definitely,
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: like no matter what you achieve, no matter your successes,
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: you are finding yourself alone at the end of the day.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: And that was tricky versus when I was at my darkest,
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: I obviously really wanted to make the Olympic team in
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: 2016 and go to Rio. I had my whole life
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: planned out, obviously. And I was like, okay, I'm going
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: to make the team. Then I'm going to make this
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: Olympics and my life's going to skyrocket. And honestly, to
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: this day, thank goodness I didn't make the Olympics. I
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: think I, I don't know if I would have been here.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: I really had a tough go with an eating disorder,
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: trying to be as small as I could be. And
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: in a judge sport where I'm a really tall diver,
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: I'm five foot seven. I was five foot seven at
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: the time as well. And everyone else winning, these world championships,
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: winning nationals, they're five foot two and they're spinning quickly.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: And I was like, am I, is the only way
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: I'm going to make an Olympic team is if I
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: get smaller. And these questions with yourself at 15 years
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: old are, are really hard. I had a coach tell
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: me straight up, like, you're not going to make the
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: Olympics because you're too fat. And these words scarred me
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: for life. Like at 15 years old, you can't be
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: telling girls you can't say that word ever. Like it's
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: so harming. And so unfortunately I took.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: I would say no matter how old the, the, the,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: but yeah, at 15, forget it.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: You're so vulnerable, so vulnerable.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: And so I took those words personally and kind of attached. Yeah.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: And kind of attached like appearance to success. And that's
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: when it really went downhill for me. I felt really
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: isolated in Thunder Bay. It wasn't really a location where,
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: you know, the best athletes were coming from. So I
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: was training by myself. I have a toxic coach. I'm
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: being told I'm too big. I'm taking birth control for
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: the first time and I'm swelling up. I have no
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: control of, you know, my body at the time. And
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: it was just a really hard time. And I didn't
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: know who to talk to about it because all the
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: Olympians in my head seemed perfect. Everyone posting on social
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: media at the time was their best dives, their biggest successes.
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: It's just a highlight reel. I'm like, is everyone perfect
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: and I'm the only one struggling? Like it felt really isolating.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: And so when I just missed the Olympics, I came
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: forth at trials and they bring top two to the Olympics.
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: And it wasn't this moment of I thought I'd be devastated.
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: I thought I'd see the scoreboard and be like, wow,
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: my life is over. And I saw the scoreboard. I've
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: never smiled so big. It was the weirdest feeling because
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: I was like, I can finally get help. I can
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: finally ask someone. I can change my environment. Not going
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: to the Olympics is going to help me love myself again.
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: I think if I had to go to the Olympics,
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: who knows how small I would have tried to get.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: You would have been like, okay, I've.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Got to be better and better. That is so.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Moving and sad and powerful, Molly.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: It's everything in one. It was tears, but beautiful.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: You know, and the other thing, I mean, I know eventually...
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: you know, you shared this with the world.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: And what you found out is the thing that we
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: all find out when we tell the truth about the
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: hardest things in our lives is you're not alone. And
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: that a lot, you know, all those Olympians that you
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: were seeing who you thought were perfect, you know, a
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: good number of them, you know, I would even dare
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: say a majority of them are struggling in some way
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: that's quite similar to you.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: Well, and now they call me and they're like, thank
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: you for what you're posting. No one could say it
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: back in the day. And I was like, wait, this
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: is crazy that you're messaging me when I wanted to
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: be you so bad. And deep down, you were also struggling. Like,
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: it's such a full circle. Everyone's deep down needs someone
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: to talk to. And we're definitely not alone. But at
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: the time, I thought I was.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: We all I mean, I think, too, you're you there
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: are so many layers. I mean, being a girl or
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: woman and our society, forget it. But like you also
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: are an athlete. Everything's about the body. And you're an
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: athlete where, you know, we can't help but scrutinize. Like,
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: I hate to admit it, but like every inch of
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: your flesh, you're in a bathing suit.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: I was just gonna say my job is literally naked.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, of course, even this past year, like
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: I had a really tough season last summer. And I
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: found myself, I took three months off and I was just,
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: I didn't love competing anymore. I kind of lost myself.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: I got pretty like seasonal depression and I found myself
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: a lot bigger, but like not in an unhealthy way.
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: But then the world kind of, when you have 8
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: million followers, they feel like they have something to say
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: just because I'm posting in a bathing suit every day.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: They say every inch and every difference. And so I
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: found myself needing to go back to my therapist and
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: my trusted people to say, listen, I'm getting a lot
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: of comments on my body right now. I don't want
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: to fall into a toxic cycle again. And to be
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: surrounded by coaches that support me now on that and say, okay,
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: we're going to work through this. We're going to train
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: in a healthy way. We're going to get you to
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: a place where you feel comfortable in your body. You're
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: not harming yourself and, and you're doing it because you
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: love it. And to have coaches like that is, is
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: I hope they find every athlete in this world because
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: they're so special.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: It's so important.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: And I, and I've heard you say too, uh, to
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: your followers, like, don't say anything positive or negative about
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: my body, okay?
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: It's not like only the bad comments.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: It's like, how about we adopt a policy of say
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: nothing about other people's bodies?
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Why do you advocate that? I know why, but I'd
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: love to hear your thoughts on that.
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: Well, you really just don't know what people are going through.
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: Maybe your positive comment on someone's body, wow, you look
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: so good, could come after a week of them restricting.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: or it could come after a week of them not
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: loving themselves and weighing themselves every morning. And you just
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: don't know that to get to that point, they've gone
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: through something hard and you're kind of supporting that. And
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: with an eating disorder brain, oh my gosh, when you
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: start hearing, you look amazing and you're getting toxic and
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: you're getting smaller, you just want to keep going because
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: you almost love those comments. You love hearing that. And
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: that gets really hard as well. So just avoiding the
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: whole thing in general, big or small, whatever sizes, like
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: celebrate the bravery. I think no matter... how you show up.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: It's never about the appearance. It's about the hard work
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: you put in. It's about the person you are on
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: the inside. And it's a hard world out there, social media,
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: but I think we're shifting it to a better place
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: for sure.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: You know, I think that you're part of that. So
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: thank you. Don't make me cry. So there you are on.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: That platform in 2016, falling short of this dream you
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: had for yourself, but feeling kind of grateful for it
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: at the same time, because you know this is a
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: pivotal moment for you.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: You're going to get better.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: And your career pivoted a bit after that too, where
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: you started doing high diving that isn't an Olympic sport
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: and started competing in a circuit or a realm or
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: a world or whatever word we want to use to
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: describe that, you know, the competitions that you entered and
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: really taking those dives higher.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Tell us about that.
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: I think the best decision I ever made for myself
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: was getting out of the environment that made me have
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: a tough time. Being in that Canada-focused Olympic cycle, everyone
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: around you is trying to go to the Olympics. I
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: was like, I think I need to take a step
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: away from my mental health, from my physical health. And
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: I decided to get a scholarship to Florida State University
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: instead of staying in Canada and going that intense Olympic route.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: I was like, well, this doesn't eliminate my Olympic dreams,
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: but it also gives me a whole new opportunity to
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: find myself. And I'm so proud of my younger self
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: for that first week on campus. I walked up to
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: my new coach and I just laid it out on
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: the table. I said, listen, You're getting a version of
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: me that wants to love myself, wants to work on myself.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: I have anxiety. I have a history of eating disorders.
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: Please be kind in this world. And he was like, Molly,
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: are you kidding? I recruited you for the smile that
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: you bring to the pool. And I was like, wait,
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: I'm sobbing. It's like our first practice in Florida. And
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: I'm crying just like I made the right decision. It
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: was this beautiful moment where I could do these four
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: years of university and have no pressure, enjoy myself. And
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: I think that's why I had great results was just
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: because I found a coach relationship that helped me shine
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: with who I was and not what I looked like.
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: And that really, he was the one, John Proctor was
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: my coach. And he was the one that was like, okay,
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: you love to travel. You love a bit of an
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: extreme lifestyle. What are your thoughts on going higher? And
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: I was like, absolutely not. Will I ever jump off
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: a cliff? And he was like, no, come on. It's
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: so your vibe. And I was like, I don't know
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: if I want to be a cliff diving vibe, you know,
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: like it was just it wasn't my my passion at
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: the time. And I watched a few more videos. I
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: actually put on my Instagram story. should I try cliff
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: diving after my diving career? And I remember like 99%
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: of people said yes. And my mom was the other 1%.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: And she's like, don't you dare. She's like, please no.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: And I remember being like, mom, I'm going to try it.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: And I moved to Montreal on a dream. I just
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: messaged Diving Canada and said, it's going to be hard
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: for me to come back to this environment, being surrounded
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: by Olympians. But I know the only pool in the
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: world with an indoor 20 meter is in Montreal. And
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: I would love to try it. And they said, come
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: on over, give it a try. And from that first jump,
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: just like I was 10 years old, like that same feeling,
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: I found myself again. I was like, this is where
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: I needed to be. I also think being in a
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: sport where it's not an Olympic sport, There's no going
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: back to that dark place. I kind of could start
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: this whole new sport and not be the face of it,
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: but kind of start it in a positive way because
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: it is so new. And it's just been a pleasure.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: And you are, you know....
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: One of the big faces in it, Molly.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: As you know, you have finished second three years in
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: a row at the Red Bull World Series. How does
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: that feel to have those silvers? And how does it feel?
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Do you still have your sights set on a gold?
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: I have. My first two years, I was definitely hungry
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: for it. I've definitely won you know, I think I'm
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: at six golds now at world level events, which is amazing.
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: I've never won those like world championships. They've always been
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: world cups. So definitely deep down, I'm like, if I
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: can full circle win a world championship, that's so special.
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: But there's something that's so switched in my brain is
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: that these silvers now are such a dream. Back in
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: the day, falling short, you could almost think of being
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: that perfectionist, being that I always felt like, oh, that
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: wasn't enough today or, oh, it just, I could have
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: been better. And now I'm walking away with like, do
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: you know how cool second in the world is? Like it's,
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: it's so special. Yes. And, and I'm walking away with
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: these whole new perspectives and it's just been such a
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: dream to be able to change that. I never thought
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: my my mental side of sport could be so positive
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: about things. And you still get the media coming up.
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: You get Red Bull. Are you ever going to beat her?
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, honestly, Rhiannon's an icon. Like, good for her.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: And we're talking.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: About Rhiannon Ifland, who, you know, I mean, are you
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: guys friends?
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, how is that?
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: Do you think of what you have with Rhiannon as
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: a rivalry?
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Because the two of you are... so close to each
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: other in competition.
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: I love what me and Rhiannon have. Rhiannon's such a,
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: just icon in our sport, consistently over 10 years. Like
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: she just won her 10th King Kai Healy trophy or
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: whatever it's called. Never won one, so one day. But
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: it's just been so cool because she's always seen me
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: as someone that on my best day, she knows it
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: could be mine. And obviously I do go through my
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: ups and downs with, you know, that performance and those struggles.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: So to see someone just stay so steady, we've just
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: always had this gratitude for each other to push each other.
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: Because before me, it was really her and a huge
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: gap underneath because the sport wasn't coming. So for me
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: to push her has always been fun. And she tells
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: me straight up, like, thank you for making me want
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: to be better. Like, it's a beautiful relationship. And I
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: think you see that big difference between Olympic sports and
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: extreme sports is this family aspect because you don't want
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: anyone to get hurt out there. There's no part of
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: you that wishes, I hope they mess up today because
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: messing up in our sport is a trip to the
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: hospital and you just don't, you don't have that that
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: aggression towards others where when you're growing up, you're on
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: the little one meter, you're like, oh, I hope she
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: falls off. Like, it's like, you can have those thoughts
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: because they're not going to hurt themselves, but it's a family.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: And I think being beautiful, competitive athletes and cheering each
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: other on while trying to push each other is just
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: the community I've kind of wanted this whole time. And
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: I'm super happy I found it.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: And now you have it.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: One thing I'm so struck by, every aspect of our
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: conversation is that you keep returning to this, to abundance,
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: you know, abundance rather than scarcity.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: And I think that that is so beautiful.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: I think so often when we think about competition, it's
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: like who won, who won and who lost, which is like,
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: it's a very sort of one thing or the other,
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: and there's nothing in between. And it can be kind
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: of scarce and skimpy.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: And threadbare. And it can.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: Make us feel either like really like oversized or really
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: small and really like a loser, right?
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: A winner or a loser.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: And I love that you have this wonderful sense of
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: abundance and that you've talked about having like joy in
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: both winning and losing. You did win quite beautifully and
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: powerfully and movingly in Montreal in 2024.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: You won a World Series event. What did that mean?
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: It seemed like it specifically a particularly emotional win for you.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: What did that mean?
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: Was it because you were in Montreal or why was
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: that so meaningful to you?
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: Oh, my gosh, I have chills just thinking about that event.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: I think Bringing this new sport to Canada for the
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: first time was already so exciting. In my head, I
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: already won. I was like, wow, we've made such an
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: impact on this sport that they wanted to bring it
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: to our country. And that was already just so special.
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: And I think that took the pressure off. Like, I
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: just wanted to show up and be in front of
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: Canadians and do my sport and do it well, of course.
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: Of course, deep down, I was like, wow, imagine if
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: I won in Canada. No way it's going to happen,
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: but I'm going to put my heart out there. That
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: was the probably one and only event where my heart
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: was on my sleeve, like full on in the present.
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: I could feel the crowd like in me, like it
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: was like people were diving with me and I started sobbing.
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: I couldn't control this feeling. On the last dive, I
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: was in the lead and Rhiannon had just, She got
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: like eights out of 10. And it was almost like
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: the crowd knew it was possible. And I just started
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: to know. I knew it was possible. It's almost like
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: I know my body's going to go out there and
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: nail it. Like I'm with Canada. It was so cool.
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: And I turned around. My body took over. absolute presence,
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: like nothing, no concerns, just enjoying it. And I got tens.
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: It was so special. And I was like, wow, it's
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: sport is so fascinating that your body just knows what
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: to do in these very intense moments, this flow state.
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: And I just came out of the water sobbing. I
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: run up to my mom. She's like, what just happened?
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: And it was just, it was so special. And then
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: my boyfriend won the men's. So we won together. It was,
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: it was such a fairy tale. And like, truly that
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: moment of, oh my gosh, you can dive so much
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: better when you're enjoying it. And that was the click
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: for me. I was like, wow, it's possible. Like it's,
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: it's truly possible to love your sport and be good
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: at it, which.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: Was really cool.
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: In a moment where it sounds like to me, you're
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: loving yourself.
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: Period.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: That was the most, the most like kindness I felt
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: towards myself as well. Also, I don't know if it
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: was because of all the attention, being in Montreal, everyone's
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: wearing pink, they're matching my swimsuits. I just felt loved,
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: like truly appreciated for me and Every day, no matter
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: how the dives went, I'd go and I'd stand in
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: a two-hour line and I'd meet everyone. To me, that's winning.
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: It's like, oh my gosh, look at this impact we've made.
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: People coming up to me sobbing, like, I got in
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: a swimsuit today because of you. I'm sobbing. I'm like,
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: what do you mean? It was just really beautiful and
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: powerful and it just taught me that the impact we
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: make is another version of winning. And it's very special.
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: Everything just came together.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: That is beautiful.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: The impact we make is indeed another version of winning.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: I love that, Molly.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: So speaking of loving yourself and being kind to yourself,
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: I have a Dear Sugar letter just.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: On this very topic. Can I read you the letter?
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: We have to.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: Dear Sugar, my question is simple but really hard. What
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: does it mean to love yourself? I don't mean just
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: being okay with your body image, though I do think
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: that is part of it too, and I need to
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: work on that aspect in my life. But I mean
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: in a larger way. How do you love all of yourself?
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: How do you love who you are and honor it?
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: I'm 23, and since finishing college last year, I've been
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: drifting between jobs and relationships with different people, both men
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: and women. I'm a woman and bisexual. I don't think
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: I've found my true path yet in any way, And
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: one thing I'm always hearing and reading is you have
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: to love yourself first. I think this is probably true.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: And I don't think I really do love myself. What
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: does it mean to love yourself? And also, how do
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: you do it? I want to take some steps in
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: that direction. And I appreciate you and your guests sharing
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: your wisdom with me.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: Thanks. Signed, Loveless.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great, it is a simple and hard question.
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: And super hard.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: You know, I think that it took me, kind of
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: years to, you know, cause it is, it's a phrase
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: we hear all the time.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: You can't, you can't be loved unless you love yourself.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, I don't know, that can't be true
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: because like most of us, you know, get loved before
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: we love ourselves.
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: We're still struggling.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: And that's the first thing I want to say to
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: Loveless is like, this is one of those questions where
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: it's a journey, right? It's not like, okay, now I
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: have arrived at the place of, you know, self-love. And
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: then now, you know, we are always there. Like, I
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: think it's a daily practice for me. And I'm going
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: to give a little bit of advice first. And then
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: I want to hear what you have to say, Molly.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: But you use that word kindness, Molly.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: And to me, that is core in my experience to
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: loving yourself is learning how to be kind to yourself,
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: like to treat yourself the way that you would treat
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: someone you love or a friend, you know, to speak
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: to yourself. the way you would speak to somebody you
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: care about and hold in high regard, right? And for
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: so many of us, sadly, that's like really hard to do.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: Like we would never say the mean, insulting, harsh things
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: to the people around us, but we say it to ourselves.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: And for me to learn how to just be kind
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: to myself has been really powerful and a lifelong journey.
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: Oh, for sure. It never ends.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: No, that's beautiful. I think... I was going to say
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: so similar is like when I first got into the
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: world of self-love, because at first I kind of toxically
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: was like, wow, I'm going to go down this train
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: of I don't love myself and I'm going to stick
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: on this train because I'll be more successful. And absolutely not,
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: not the key. Hating yourself does not make you any
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: more successful. But I found in the early days of
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: trying to love myself and working on myself was It
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: was way easier to talk to myself if I spoke
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: to my younger self. Because we all do find that
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: easier is to compliment other people. Compliment, you're not going
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: to say mean things to your 12-year-old self either. And
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: so when I would journal, when I would start these conversations,
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: I can't talk to my current self. For me, that's
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: still so hard. I'm like, girl, you're hyping yourself up
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: too much. But speaking to my teenage self just always...
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: gave me gratitude of look how far you came. And
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: that right there like puts you right into the mindset of, okay, wow,
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: like I've actually made it far. And she would be proud.
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: And then you're already in this mental space of, okay,
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: I've come so far. And for me, that's how I
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: started was writing little letters to baby Mal and to
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: try to just tell her what was hard today or
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: how far you've come from those dark moments and And
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: that just puts you in a good place to grow
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: as well and to be proud already, no matter if
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: you're in a good or a bad spot, like you're
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: still here. And that's so special.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: And I love, you know, obviously I'm a writer and
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: your advice to use writing as a way to uncover
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: that sense of loving oneself is so essential.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: I do the same thing.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: The prompt I often give is, you know, write a
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: letter to yourself from your wise inner sage, you know,
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: that voice within you who knows who you are and
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: what you want, you know, that's always a loving voice.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: It's an honest voice and a loving one. I love
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: your technique, write to your younger self. My friend Elizabeth
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: Gilbert writes herself letters from love. You know, it's like,
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: dear Cheryl, dear Molly, dear Elizabeth, dear Loveless, this is
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: love writing to you.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: And here's what I have to tell you today.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: And let me tell you, when you write to your
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: younger self or you write from your wise inner sage
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: or you write from love, good things come from that
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: because you will learn how to talk to yourself with
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: kindness and you will learn how to nurture kindness. And
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: nourish yourself. And it is that whole body thing. It's
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: everything from like literally nourishing yourself, feeding.
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: Yourself, right?
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Learning to love your beautiful, perfect, imperfect body. And also
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: your beautiful, perfect, imperfect life, you know? And engaging with
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: it is worth the time and effort you put in because.
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: It's so worth it.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: It's so worth it. It really is. So Loveless, we
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: wish you luck.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: And I mean, you know, I think to surround yourself
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: with people who are also engaging in that, you know, like,
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's why I think so many people have
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: found you, Molly, online is that you bring to people
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: that sense of abundance and exuberance. You explicitly talk about
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: all the ways you're struggling while also saying, and damn it,
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: I'm going to like, I'm going to love myself even
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: if it's hard.
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: To do. Yes.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: Tell me about that. I mean, you aren't just, you know,
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: like an elite, accomplished person. successful, amazing diver and athlete.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: Stop it, Cheryl.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: You're also like, you know, what we call in these days,
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: like a social media influencer, which to me just means
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: like a lot of people follow you and look to you.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: And I'm curious, like how is it for you being
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: in that role? Is that something that you really set
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: about doing intentionally? And what is it, you know, what
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: do you love about it? What's hard about it? Tell
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: me about being a social media influencer athlete.
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: I did not expect this life. Definitely shocked that posting
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: a few videos can pay my rent these days, but grateful. Wow.
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: But it's lovely. It's just been... it was hard at
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: the beginning because you're your first video goes viral. And
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: I was just showing the behind the scenes of, of
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: high diving. I brought my phone up to the 20
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: meter platform and people were like, why are you jumping
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: out of the roof? Are you okay? I was like, honestly,
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: I don't know yet. We'll see at the bottom, you know?
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: And it was so interesting to just start gathering these followers,
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: like interested in, in my sport, in, in my world.
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: I was just excited. People wanted to see more of
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: high diving. And the first time I hit a million views,
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: I was like, Oh, this is the coolest thing. I
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: want to do it again. How do I do it again?
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: And then, and then I kind of started, cause I
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: liked the aspect of control with food, for example. So
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: I kind of felt myself going into these toxic worlds of, okay,
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: how can I get the next million views? How could I,
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: and then your, your life kind of gets kind of psycho.
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: It's kind of, it's kind of intense when you, you're
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: just looking at numbers and not the joy behind the camera.
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: And I think that's where the first year I was like,
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: I have to do all this, all this, all this
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: for other people. And it's like, okay, but what am
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: I doing for me? And that's going to make you
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: go the furthest. And I think honesty and being real
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: changed the game. Like my first year, of course, I
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: gained followers from jumping off cool things, but it, gained
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: the followers that I didn't connect with. It was the,
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: you're so cool. I like, I don't know. It was
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: just not my, my community. I'm like, where's my anxious
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: girls that can help me get in a bathing suit today?
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: Cause like I might've jumped off that, but I hated
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: that I was bloated in the video. Like I want
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: to be able to talk about those. And probably, um,
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: six months later, I did my first video and it
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: was about bloating. And I was like, I can't, I
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: can't like, I don't want to train today. It sucks
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: that I can't do the sport that I love today
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: because I don't love myself. And the amount of just...
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: comments of people helping me. It was beautiful. I was like,
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: did I finally reach my people? Like this is so special.
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: And so then more videos, just being honest and real.
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: And that's where I found like this community that I
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: wanted to be with. And it's hard to find your people,
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: but once you do like grab them and run like post,
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: post for them, post for like the baby you that
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: needed to hear this stuff. And it was, it was special.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: And the baby you, I mean, you call this community
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: the Brave Gang, right? Yes.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: Tell me about that.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: Am I a member of the Brave Gang?
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Cheryl, you are absolutely.
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: You're so cute. Me and my mom were sitting in
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: our kitchen once and I was like, mom, like I
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: have 500,000 followers on TikTok, which what is TikTok? We
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: didn't even know at the time. And it's 2020. It's
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: like COVID. And we're like, What should we we need
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: like a hashtag people could use because I didn't just
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: want to grow myself. I wanted to grow with people
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: and and celebrate other people because 20 people, 20 girls
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: jump off cliffs for a living. Right. Like this isn't
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: a common sport. Right. So I was like, how can
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: I connect with 500 people? thousand more people but they
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: don't cliff dive and she's like we should start a
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: hashtag and and people could use it to share their
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: own brave story i'm like mom you're brilliant and so
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: i was like brave brave is the top comment in
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: all my posts like no matter what she's so brave
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: i want to be brave like her and i'm like
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: you're already brave like you trust me everyone's brave in
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: their own way And so we were like, okay, brave family,
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: brave community. And then we're like, brave gang. And we're like,
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: we could be like a positive gang, you know, just
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: really special. And it just clicked. And then that hashtag
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: has over a billion, like with a B, views on
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: TikTok of people sharing their own brave stories. And it
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: makes me cry every time just scrolling and seeing people. Oh,
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: I'm just, I'm so proud of everyone. And it just
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: makes it even more special when you You have success
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: and you feel like you did it with so many
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: other people. It's very cool. Right.
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: And from that authentic place, I mean, I love and
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: it doesn't surprise me at all that like what really...
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: the most viral thing that happened to you was about
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: you not showing up and being like, look how amazing
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: I am. I'm one of these amazing divers who can
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: do really scary things. It was, which, which we do
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: love watching that too, but it was like, I feel self-conscious.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: I feel bloated. I feel bad about myself essentially. And
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: that kind of truth is like what, what people, what
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: brought those people to you. So it's this authentic sharing
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: of who you are and what you were feeling inside.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: So what's next for you, my dear?
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, like you've, you've, I was going
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: to say you've climbed a lot of mountains, but maybe
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: a better metaphor is like you've jumped off of a
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: lot of mountains.
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: Girl, you've climbed a lot of mountains. That's right. I've
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: jumped off them.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: I'm the climber, you're the jumper.
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh.
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: My next thing is to get to a pool with
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: you and we jump together. It'll be so fun. No,
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: for me, like I have.
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: My childhood thing of going up that ladder. We'll have
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: to hire a bunch of kids.
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: I love I love it. You got this. But I
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: have a few more competitions this year. So I'm going
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: to I have two more of the 2026 season and
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: try to go out there and just enjoy it. I've
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: really been sitting second in the world again because I've
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: been having fun. And that to me is the biggest
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: joy is like this balance of doing projects and diving
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: off 27 meters, but still being competitive. Like I've really
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: found my perfect balance and it's been lovely. So we
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: have a few trips coming up and then something big
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: might be coming out this fall of secret project. But yeah,
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: I think you're going to freak out when you see
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: this one. I don't think you're going to be able
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: to watch personally. Okay.
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: It's too scary.
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: You and my mom can shut your eyes.
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: All the mothers, all the mothers of the world will
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: be like, turn to the screen.
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: You're like, it sounds great.
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: It sounds terrible, actually. It's really scary. But I'm inspired
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: that you do it.
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: And I think that you and so many other great
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: athletes expand the world for many of us who will
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: never tiptoe to the edge of that.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: Platform and dive off.
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: Because it is important that we, in so many ways,
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: do that ourselves in whatever way, whatever it stands in
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: for the platform in our own lives, that we learn
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: how to go to.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: The edge and dive in.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for sharing this conversation with me, Molly.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: It's been a pleasure to talk to you.
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: This went so quickly. I feel like I'm FaceTiming my
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: best friend, but thank you. That was so special.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: I was. I hope our paths cross in real life sometime.
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: We have to. Thank you so much.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: Say hi to your mom.
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: She loves you. She's obsessed.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: If you'd like to write me a letter seeking advice,
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: please send it to me at deardearsugar at gmail.com. And
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: your podcasts. Happy trails, and I'll see you next week.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: Mind Over Mountain with Cheryl Strayed is an iHeart Women's
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: Sports production produced by Brittany Brown and Rodney Brown of
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: Barbara Jean Productions. Supervising producer is Kaylin West at Realm.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: Associate producer, Amaya Brathwaite. Our executive producers are Molly Barton,
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: Jerry Carita, Grace Fuse, and Jessie Katz. Our theme song
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: is composed by Gramascope Music. Don't forget to rate, review,
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: Happy trails, and I'll see you next week.