Latest / Wrongful Conviction / #064 Jason Flom with Calvin Johnson

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#064 Jason Flom with Calvin Johnson · Wrongful Conviction

0:02
Speaker 1: I've never been in trouble in my life. I didn't
0:03
Speaker 1: even have a parking ticket, you know what I mean.
0:05
Speaker 1: I was brought up with cops are the good guys.
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Speaker 2: I didn't know what was going to happen, but I
0:11
Speaker 2: do know that everything was stacked against me.
0:14
Speaker 1: Everything like everything.
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Speaker 3: This isn't supposed to happen this way. I'm innocent. I
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Speaker 3: know I'm innocent. I know I had nothing to do
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Speaker 3: with this. How is this possible?
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Speaker 4: I grew up trusting systems. I've grew up believing that
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Speaker 4: every human being should do the right thing. And that's why,
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Speaker 4: even though I knew I was dealing with four other people,
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Speaker 4: I wasn't going to break anyone to get me out
0:38
Speaker 4: of prison because I wouldn't live with the fact that
0:41
Speaker 4: I break my way out of my wife's death.
0:44
Speaker 1: I'm not innocent, too proven guilty. I'm guilty until I
0:47
Speaker 1: prove my innocence. And that's absolutely what happened to me.
0:51
Speaker 1: Our system. Since I've been out ten years, it has
0:53
Speaker 1: come a little ways, but it's still broken.
0:56
Speaker 4: I totally lost trusting humanity after what's happened to me.
1:02
Speaker 5: This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful Conviction with
1:19
Speaker 5: Jason Flohm. Today, I have a very special guest, my
1:23
Speaker 5: friend and my colleague on the board of the Innocence
1:26
Speaker 5: Project for a long time, Calvin Johnson. Calvin, welcome to
1:30
Speaker 5: the podcast.
1:32
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you for having me.
1:33
Speaker 5: Jason Calvin, you are an extraordinary I don't embarrass you,
1:36
Speaker 5: but you are an extraordinary person. Your spirit really lights
1:42
Speaker 5: up every room that you walk into. And I've seen
1:44
Speaker 5: you walk into a lot of rooms, so I know this.
1:46
Speaker 5: But your story is insane in many ways, but also
1:51
Speaker 5: typical in certain ways of wrongful convictions. And I want
1:55
Speaker 5: to get right into that and I'll explain what I
1:58
Speaker 5: mean as we go along. But this goes back to
2:01
Speaker 5: nineteen eighty three, but I want to go back even
2:04
Speaker 5: a little further than that, because you grew up in
2:07
Speaker 5: a very nice environment, good family. I mean, can you
2:10
Speaker 5: explain what your childhood was like.
2:14
Speaker 2: I really had a really great childhood. I was brought
2:18
Speaker 2: up in a middle class setting. My father was a
2:21
Speaker 2: lawyer and my mother, she worked at a college as
2:26
Speaker 2: an administrative assistant. My father later became a senator, the
2:31
Speaker 2: first black state senator in Hamilton County in Ohio. So
2:36
Speaker 2: I really was brought up in a very nice setting.
2:38
Speaker 2: I remember living in a nice home, having my own room,
2:41
Speaker 2: even had a game room with slock car racing sets,
2:46
Speaker 2: train sets. It was just a very, very very nice environment.
2:51
Speaker 2: I also kind of say, when I look back at it,
2:53
Speaker 2: I felt kind of protected because I wasn't exposed to
2:57
Speaker 2: a lot of negative things. Are a lot of bad
3:00
Speaker 2: things in the world. So I can remember days like
3:03
Speaker 2: when the first time I saw when Martin Luther King
3:05
Speaker 2: got assassinated and I saw my mother crying in front
3:08
Speaker 2: of the TV. It had a profound effect on me
3:11
Speaker 2: because I was like, well, what's going on? I saw
3:14
Speaker 2: people riding riding and people protesting, and it's kind of
3:19
Speaker 2: just opened up my eyes to a lot of things.
3:21
Speaker 2: I said, Wow, look, look what's going on in the world.
3:24
Speaker 2: It's things out there that I hadn't even been aware of,
3:27
Speaker 2: and it really, really I started looking at the world
3:30
Speaker 2: a little bit different.
3:31
Speaker 5: Now. None of this would have prepared you for what
3:35
Speaker 5: was about to happen on that faithful day in nineteen
3:39
Speaker 5: eighty three when your life literally went from being I
3:43
Speaker 5: want to say a dream, but like your whole future
3:47
Speaker 5: was in front of you and everything was looking good.
3:50
Speaker 5: You're a smart guy. You came from a great family,
3:52
Speaker 5: you had good upbringing, you had every opportunity to be
3:55
Speaker 5: successful in the world, and then all of a sudden,
3:59
Speaker 5: you get arrested and charged with a crime that you
4:02
Speaker 5: had no knowledge of it nothing to do with, and
4:04
Speaker 5: then ultimately charged with another crime. I mean, this is
4:07
Speaker 5: a crazy story because there were two separate incidents, one
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Speaker 5: of which was used against you in the trial for
4:14
Speaker 5: the other one, and then later on when the charges
4:16
Speaker 5: were dropped for that one, it was too late because
4:18
Speaker 5: you were I mean, it's really a nutty and terrifying scenario.
4:22
Speaker 5: What happened to you? And can you explain the circumstances
4:26
Speaker 5: of how this happened in the first place, and why
4:29
Speaker 5: did they focus on you, and how could they have
4:32
Speaker 5: gotten this so wrong?
4:34
Speaker 2: Like you said, it is a little crazy, Jason, it
4:37
Speaker 2: really is. I'm to just go back just a little
4:40
Speaker 2: bit further in my upbringing, because I remember when my
4:44
Speaker 2: family moved to Atlanta, Georgia, and we moved into this
4:48
Speaker 2: really nice neighborhood where there were professional football players and
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Speaker 2: doctors and lawyers and people in the political field. And
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Speaker 2: I'm riding around on mini bikes and motorcycles, was growing
5:00
Speaker 2: up and just living a great life, and it was
5:04
Speaker 2: it was considered the upper echelon of Atlanta for blacks
5:08
Speaker 2: at that time. And I went to college, and once
5:12
Speaker 2: I graduate from high school, I went to college with
5:14
Speaker 2: as you said, I went to college. I was at
5:17
Speaker 2: Clark College in Atlanta, Georgia and getting my education and
5:21
Speaker 2: I graduated with a bachelors's Arts and Mass Communications. And
5:25
Speaker 2: you would never imagine anything like this happening to me.
5:29
Speaker 2: But then I had a little bit of a wild streak.
5:33
Speaker 2: Like most kids, I was adventurous. I didn't just always
5:36
Speaker 2: stay on the upper echelon side with the good kids.
5:40
Speaker 2: I had the tendency to go over into the to
5:44
Speaker 2: the lower neighborhoods. I wouldn't say, I don't like to
5:46
Speaker 2: say lower, but I would say economically not as successful
5:50
Speaker 2: as we were. And when I used to go over there,
5:53
Speaker 2: I just hang out with those guys. And I was
5:56
Speaker 2: doing a few things things that I shouldn't have had
5:58
Speaker 2: no business doing, I have to be honest about it. Drinking,
6:01
Speaker 2: smoking marijuana, having fun, partying, chasing the girls, and I
6:06
Speaker 2: just got involved into things that had no business being
6:09
Speaker 2: involved with. I knew people that would buy hot items,
6:12
Speaker 2: and I knew people that were committing crimes, and I
6:16
Speaker 2: got mixed up with some of the wrong people and
6:18
Speaker 2: I actually did somebody had no business doing. That started
6:21
Speaker 2: the ball to rolling. I put myself in that position
6:24
Speaker 2: in the beginning. I did commit a burglary to I'm
6:29
Speaker 2: gonna tell you what led up to that. I had
6:32
Speaker 2: brought some marijuana one day and at time when I
6:35
Speaker 2: was buying the marijuana, the police actually pulled up and
6:39
Speaker 2: arrested me and charged me with the marijuana. Having that case,
6:44
Speaker 2: I went to see a lawyer, and the lawyer was
6:47
Speaker 2: pretty expensive and I didn't have the money. So my
6:51
Speaker 2: friends on the other side of the track said, wait, man,
6:54
Speaker 2: we can get you some money. Just go ahead and
6:56
Speaker 2: if you bring us a few hot items and we
6:58
Speaker 2: will take care of it and you can get you
7:00
Speaker 2: a lawyer. So I went across to What I did
7:03
Speaker 2: was I committed a burglary and got caught, and that's
7:06
Speaker 2: what really started everything I was. I pleaded guilty to
7:10
Speaker 2: that because I was guilty. You know, I a set
7:14
Speaker 2: responsibility for anything that I've done. But if there's something
7:18
Speaker 2: that you say that I did that I didn't do,
7:20
Speaker 2: then we got a battle.
7:21
Speaker 1: On our held.
7:22
Speaker 5: So that's that's what put you in the crosshairs of
7:26
Speaker 5: the authorities. Right, So when this, you know, when they
7:30
Speaker 5: had this terrible incident where this woman had her house
7:34
Speaker 5: broken into. It was in College Park, I think, right, Georgia,
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Speaker 5: and a woman's house was broken into and she was
7:41
Speaker 5: tied up with a belt or strangled with a belt,
7:43
Speaker 5: and then I mean, it's a terrible, terrible crime, and
7:46
Speaker 5: she was raped and robbed and the whole thing. And
7:51
Speaker 5: then how did it end up where they came to
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Speaker 5: arrest you? What made them suspect that you were the
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Speaker 5: guy that did this? Ultimately was proven that you didn't.
8:00
Speaker 5: But how did that? I mean, can you explain that
8:02
Speaker 5: whole scenario, because that's where this thing goes really off
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Speaker 5: the tracks.
8:07
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm explaining as best I can. At the time,
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Speaker 2: when I got arrested for the burglary, that's basically all
8:14
Speaker 2: that I was guilty of. They had some other crimes
8:19
Speaker 2: that happened, a rape or two that happened in the
8:22
Speaker 2: area of the burglary, and so they decided that they
8:26
Speaker 2: were going to clear the record books and charge me
8:28
Speaker 2: with those rapes. And this was back in nineteen eighty one,
8:33
Speaker 2: and we were getting ready to go to trial and everything,
8:36
Speaker 2: and the only thing that really cleared my name was
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Speaker 2: that the lady that was assaulted and rape in this
8:43
Speaker 2: particular case, she was honest and I really appreciate her honesty.
8:47
Speaker 2: She said that I'm positive that the person that raped
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Speaker 2: me was an uncircumcised individual, and I had been circumcised
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Speaker 2: since birth because I was born in Cincinnati, Ohio, in
9:00
Speaker 2: the Jewish hospital and was circumcised since birth. And so
9:05
Speaker 2: once that was brought out, they dropped the charges on
9:09
Speaker 2: the rape, and basically I just went to prison for
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Speaker 2: burglary and I did about a year, maybe a year
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Speaker 2: and a half, got back out, started my life over,
9:20
Speaker 2: trying to do the positive things and working out every day,
9:24
Speaker 2: going to work every day. I was living in my parents'
9:26
Speaker 2: house at the time, and shortly one day I was
9:30
Speaker 2: coming home. I never forget that day. It was a beautiful,
9:32
Speaker 2: beautiful day that day. It was a spring day, and
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Speaker 2: I was coming home and I felt a strange feeling.
9:38
Speaker 1: Some just wasn't right.
9:40
Speaker 2: And as I walked into the house, no sooner than
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Speaker 2: I walked into the house, there was that knock on
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Speaker 2: the door, like, don't doom.
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Speaker 1: I tell people that was the weight of the state.
9:49
Speaker 1: They busted the door.
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Speaker 2: They put handcuffs on me, extremely tight, so tight that
9:55
Speaker 2: I still got bruises on my wrists all these years later,
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Speaker 2: and they dragged me out and they charged me with
10:00
Speaker 2: these rapes. And it was the same police officers they
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Speaker 2: had arrested me earlier, and so now they're charging me
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Speaker 2: with some more rapes, saying that you got to be guilty.
10:09
Speaker 2: We feel you're guilty of this. But I, you know,
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Speaker 2: I was innocent. I had no connection with the victim
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Speaker 2: or anything. And I remember being in that cold, damp,
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Speaker 2: dark cell and just waiting to be to be clear. Now,
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Speaker 2: any day I thought that, okay, this is America.
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Speaker 1: You know. I brought up in America believing in.
10:28
Speaker 2: The judicial system and injustice and justice for all, and
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Speaker 2: once that happened, I just I just never, ever, I
10:36
Speaker 2: never believed that I would go to prison. I said,
10:38
Speaker 2: any day they're going to walk in here and say, hey,
10:41
Speaker 2: you're not guilty, You're free.
10:43
Speaker 1: And this is.
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Speaker 2: Basically how it had all started. Those same police officers
10:48
Speaker 2: that had previously arrested me a couple of years earlier,
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Speaker 2: rested me again in nineteen eighty three and decided that, Okay,
10:54
Speaker 2: now we're going to make sure that we got this
10:57
Speaker 2: guy this time. But they had the wrong guy.
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Speaker 5: I'm getting the very strong visual of you and knowing
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Speaker 5: you as I do, and every time I see you
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Speaker 5: wearing a suit and a big smile and everything else,
11:07
Speaker 5: and now I'm picturing quite the opposite, right, I'm picturing
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Speaker 5: you in this, as you said, the cold, dark, damp cell,
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Speaker 5: and still thinking that the justice system is going to
11:18
Speaker 5: be just, and that because you didn't do and had
11:23
Speaker 5: no knowledge and weren't involved in any way any of
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Speaker 5: these in these particular crimes, that you were going to
11:28
Speaker 5: be freed probably relatively shortly in this, but this proceeded
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Speaker 5: to trial in actually a shorter time than many of
11:38
Speaker 5: the cases that we see here. It was about six
11:40
Speaker 5: months right until you ended up actually on trial for
11:42
Speaker 5: your life, literally for your life.
11:45
Speaker 1: That's true, Jason.
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Speaker 2: I mean they put me into a live lineup before
11:50
Speaker 2: I went to trial, and in that live lineup, they
11:54
Speaker 2: actually were trying to select the person that committed the
11:57
Speaker 2: crime and the individual Joel who I actually went to
12:02
Speaker 2: prison for with a life sentence, the individual that actually
12:05
Speaker 2: went to prison for picked out another person did not
12:09
Speaker 2: pick out Calvin C. Johnson Jr. And all this was
12:12
Speaker 2: brought out in a preliminary hearing where they were trying
12:15
Speaker 2: to decide whether or not if they were going to
12:18
Speaker 2: indict this case and carry it on over to have trial.
12:21
Speaker 2: I remember during a preliminary hearing when it was brought
12:24
Speaker 2: out that hey, this individual picked out somebody else. I'm
12:28
Speaker 2: sitting there thinking like, wow, you know, am I gonna
12:31
Speaker 2: go home?
12:32
Speaker 1: Now?
12:32
Speaker 2: Are they gonna go ahead and just drop the case.
12:34
Speaker 2: And then there was some other facts brought out because
12:37
Speaker 2: they asked this individual about her identification procedures how he
12:40
Speaker 2: was identified, and apparently they said that I was supposed
12:45
Speaker 2: to have been identified through a photographic from a photographic lineup
12:48
Speaker 2: in the beginning, and in questioning this individual, they said, well,
12:53
Speaker 2: what kind of photographs were they?
12:56
Speaker 1: Color? Were they black and white?
12:58
Speaker 2: And she was kind of shaking, like, you know, she
13:00
Speaker 2: wasn't sure, and she actually said, well, I think they
13:04
Speaker 2: were color. They were color pictures. So later on we
13:08
Speaker 2: brought a police officer in who had been said questioned,
13:11
Speaker 2: so he didn't hear what she said. And when he
13:13
Speaker 2: came in, we asked him, do you have the pictures
13:16
Speaker 2: with you today that Calvin Johnson was identified from? And
13:20
Speaker 2: he said, yes, I do, and he showed them to
13:22
Speaker 2: us and they were a serious of small black and
13:25
Speaker 2: white pictures. And I'm sitting there in the courtroom, you know,
13:30
Speaker 2: my eyes are wide, my head is shaking back and
13:32
Speaker 2: forth because I'm in disbelief, and I'm saying, well, cat,
13:36
Speaker 2: to just see that something is not right here. And
13:39
Speaker 2: I kept believing that I would actually that at that moment,
13:43
Speaker 2: and it meant minute.
13:44
Speaker 1: He would say, Okay, you're free to go.
13:56
Speaker 2: I remember going back to my cell and sitting in
13:59
Speaker 2: there selling, you know, just wondering what's going on, what's
14:03
Speaker 2: going on? And so one day they dragged me out
14:05
Speaker 2: their cell, Jason. They just took me and they jack
14:08
Speaker 2: dragged me out. They handcuffed me all around my waist
14:11
Speaker 2: and around my ankles and took me to a local
14:14
Speaker 2: hospital and set me in a room with the door
14:16
Speaker 2: wide open, and then they made me strip down and
14:19
Speaker 2: they just they didn't close the door. It was inhumane.
14:21
Speaker 2: And they started plucking hairs from my body and taking
14:24
Speaker 2: blood samples and for comparison purpose to see if anything
14:30
Speaker 2: mashed up with the individual that committed the crime. And
14:33
Speaker 2: as they did all this, Jason, I remember when they
14:36
Speaker 2: came back and they said, well I got I got
14:38
Speaker 2: good news and I got bad news. I said, well, well,
14:41
Speaker 2: what's the good news and what's the bad news. Well,
14:43
Speaker 2: the good news is that the hair samples came back
14:46
Speaker 2: and they matched. They belonged to a person of African
14:50
Speaker 2: American ancestry. But the hair sapple did not match you.
14:54
Speaker 2: I said what, I said, Well, am I going home now?
14:57
Speaker 2: And they said, well, no, that's the bad news. You know,
15:01
Speaker 2: the blood sapple came back and it was all positive.
15:03
Speaker 2: They didn't have DNA technology, they weren't using it in
15:06
Speaker 2: the courts at that time, and said, oh positive, Well,
15:10
Speaker 2: most of America. America is a positive. Majority of the
15:14
Speaker 2: population is oh positive. And because I'm all positive, the
15:18
Speaker 2: person that committed crime was OH positive, they decided, okay,
15:21
Speaker 2: we're gonna go forth with the trial because he must
15:23
Speaker 2: have committed the crime. I mean, it was really really crazy.
15:27
Speaker 2: I mean even the jury selection was crazy. They it
15:30
Speaker 2: was in the county that were predominantly white, Clayton County, Georgia,
15:34
Speaker 2: and they had three or four blacks, which they systematically
15:37
Speaker 2: struck from the jury and I ended up with all
15:40
Speaker 2: white jury. The victim was white, and as we proceeded
15:45
Speaker 2: to the trial portion, I'm sitting there facing the all
15:49
Speaker 2: white jury with a victim that's white, that's crime, and
15:52
Speaker 2: pointing the finger and saying, this black man raped her.
15:55
Speaker 2: What chance do would I have? Jason? I mean, what chance?
15:57
Speaker 2: In a situation like that, you have no chance forsoever.
16:00
Speaker 2: And that's why I emphasized the fact of the fact
16:03
Speaker 2: that you know, a jury needs to be culturally diverse,
16:06
Speaker 2: different ethnic backgrounds, otherwise you don't stand much of a chance. Basically,
16:11
Speaker 2: I was railroaded, and through the course of the trial
16:15
Speaker 2: a lot, a lot of evidence was brought out in
16:17
Speaker 2: my behalf. I had alibi testimony. I was at home
16:20
Speaker 2: living with my parents. We had a dog, you know,
16:24
Speaker 2: my dad. I didn't even have a car at the time,
16:26
Speaker 2: and my dad, you know, was take would take me
16:28
Speaker 2: to work in the morning time every day. And all
16:31
Speaker 2: this was brought out. You know that you know that
16:32
Speaker 2: I was at home my parents. My plury came, he
16:35
Speaker 2: testified at the trial, and he even showed my employee
16:38
Speaker 2: ID picture of me having a full beer. Said Calvin
16:41
Speaker 2: Johnson has a full beer that had a full beer
16:43
Speaker 2: at that time, and they didn't they.
16:46
Speaker 5: Didn't wear so that the victim had told the authorities
16:53
Speaker 5: that the assailant was clean shaven, Is that right?
16:57
Speaker 2: Well, she said that he had I think if I
17:00
Speaker 2: remember correctly, that she said that he had a mustache,
17:05
Speaker 2: and she didn't even describe anything about any facial hair
17:09
Speaker 2: until later on where she actually said that it may
17:12
Speaker 2: have been some stokee so, but she never mentioned anything
17:15
Speaker 2: about a food.
17:16
Speaker 1: Yeah.
17:16
Speaker 5: So so here you are, I mean, and what's you know,
17:20
Speaker 5: what's common common factors that we see in your case
17:25
Speaker 5: our eyewitness misidentification and unvalidated or improper forensic science. And
17:30
Speaker 5: in this case it was flawed zerology, right, because, as
17:33
Speaker 5: you were saying, the idea that the lab analysts testified
17:37
Speaker 5: at trial that thirty six percent of the male population
17:40
Speaker 5: could be excluded as potential contributors to the semen was
17:44
Speaker 5: absolutely wrong because in this case, the victim and the
17:47
Speaker 5: and the perpetrator shared shared common traits which actually meant
17:54
Speaker 5: for reasons that are that are complex in science. But basically,
17:58
Speaker 5: the victims blood group markers could have been masking the
18:00
Speaker 5: perpetrators and under such circumstances. The failure I'm reading this part,
18:04
Speaker 5: the failure to inform the jury that one hundred percent,
18:07
Speaker 5: one hundred percent of the male population could have been
18:10
Speaker 5: included and that none could be excluded, was highly misleading.
18:14
Speaker 5: Even still though all you're doing, even if she was right,
18:17
Speaker 5: which she wasn't, you would say that you could only
18:21
Speaker 5: eliminate thirty six percent of the population. That's not enough
18:24
Speaker 5: to convict somebody instead of the prison for the rest
18:26
Speaker 5: of her life when you have all of this exculpatory
18:28
Speaker 5: evidence that was brought forward. But the fact is you
18:31
Speaker 5: were in an impossible situation, as you described, and you
18:37
Speaker 5: had virtually no chance. So what was that moment if
18:41
Speaker 5: you could describe the courtroom at that moment, was when
18:46
Speaker 5: the most terrible moment of your life when the jury
18:49
Speaker 5: came back and rendered you guilty.
18:53
Speaker 2: It was sad. The reason why I use the word
18:56
Speaker 2: sad because my parents were there. I'm a pretty kind
19:02
Speaker 2: of look at myself as a pretty tough guy. But
19:04
Speaker 2: I hear the guilty verdict and I'm looking back. That's
19:08
Speaker 2: the first idea. I look back at my mom and
19:12
Speaker 2: I can see the expression out her face, the expression
19:15
Speaker 2: of a disbelief. But my dad was he it was like,
19:20
Speaker 2: you know, he had a serious look because my dad
19:24
Speaker 2: had a little more knowledge and he knew what was
19:26
Speaker 2: going on, and he knew that my chances were slim,
19:29
Speaker 2: So I don't think he was surprised. But a mother's
19:33
Speaker 2: love for her son is something special, and it just
19:36
Speaker 2: it literally broke her heart.
19:38
Speaker 1: And I could see it.
19:38
Speaker 2: I can see it at that time, and that's what
19:41
Speaker 2: bothered me more than anything, you know, looking back and
19:45
Speaker 2: only seeing my mom's expression, you know, and I can
19:48
Speaker 2: see it. It was written all over her face. And shortly
19:51
Speaker 2: after that, my mom did suffer a very serious stroke
19:54
Speaker 2: because it broke.
19:56
Speaker 5: From now you get taken away, ultimately sentenced to a
20:00
Speaker 5: double life term, right and taken to prison. And I've
20:08
Speaker 5: heard you in a speech that you gave, very powerful
20:11
Speaker 5: speech that you gave. Explain what that was like. And
20:14
Speaker 5: it just blew my mind to take us there, Calvin,
20:18
Speaker 5: you what prison were you sent to?
20:21
Speaker 2: I was sent to a prison in South Georgia. I
20:23
Speaker 2: was actually sent to the hardest working state prison in
20:27
Speaker 2: the state of Georgia.
20:28
Speaker 1: At that time.
20:29
Speaker 2: I was young, twenty five years old, and they decided that,
20:33
Speaker 2: you know, this is a young person that he can
20:36
Speaker 2: go down there. And it was really basically they send
20:39
Speaker 2: you down there to this prison and you work. It's
20:42
Speaker 2: a work camp, and everybody in the prison. It's a
20:46
Speaker 2: small prison, know the more than maybe by two hundred men,
20:48
Speaker 2: but everybody there either has life sentence or twenty years more.
20:51
Speaker 2: There's no short time as there at all. It's a
20:54
Speaker 2: close security prison. And you go outside and you're early.
20:59
Speaker 1: In the morning. You wake up in the morning and
21:00
Speaker 1: they feed you.
21:02
Speaker 2: They walk around for a shotgun above you, like as
21:04
Speaker 2: if to say, hey, you know, feed my boys good.
21:07
Speaker 2: And the Wharton's walking around and he's looking down at you.
21:10
Speaker 2: And then they take you out. And I remember working
21:13
Speaker 2: in swamp land and swamp water and with water up
21:18
Speaker 2: to my knees, with moccasins swimming around, and every now
21:21
Speaker 2: and then you run across a rattlesnake. And this was
21:24
Speaker 2: something that I never dealt with in my life. It
21:26
Speaker 2: was it was really, it was just it was crazy,
21:30
Speaker 2: and I had to make this adjustment to just deal
21:32
Speaker 2: with that and to deal with the violence of prison
21:35
Speaker 2: where you sleeping in your bed at night with your
21:37
Speaker 2: with your shoes on because you never know when you
21:40
Speaker 2: might wake up in the middle of the night. I
21:42
Speaker 2: remember one time an individual I was sleeping on a
21:46
Speaker 2: double bunk and the bump below me started shaking in
21:48
Speaker 2: the middle of the night, and I looked down and
21:51
Speaker 2: the guy below me were being stabbed because he borrought
21:54
Speaker 2: some money I bought. Basically, it's not money, but cigarettes
21:58
Speaker 2: are candy or something, and he didn't pay his debt,
22:01
Speaker 2: and so it's his own world. It's we call this
22:06
Speaker 2: on the outside the free world. The prison world is
22:09
Speaker 2: a whole different world in itself, and it's run differently,
22:12
Speaker 2: and it's just a matter of survival. You got You
22:15
Speaker 2: go in there and you try to survive. And the
22:18
Speaker 2: strong pay pray upon the week, so you have to
22:20
Speaker 2: be strong. So during the course of years when I
22:23
Speaker 2: was in prison, I used to just lift weights all
22:26
Speaker 2: the time. It was a way, it was a therapy.
22:28
Speaker 2: It was a way for me to relieve some of
22:30
Speaker 2: the anxiety and the emotions that were After I lifted them,
22:34
Speaker 2: I was too tired to do anything or to get
22:36
Speaker 2: in any trouble. Plus it built me up physically so
22:39
Speaker 2: that I could defend myself, or at least people would
22:42
Speaker 2: think twice about before trying to take advantage of me anyway,
22:45
Speaker 2: because I was physically fit. And those years went by,
22:49
Speaker 2: and I remember being in prison and they wanted us
22:53
Speaker 2: to you know, prison doesn't rehabilitate you, but they like
22:57
Speaker 2: to make society think that they and their rehability tain people.
23:01
Speaker 2: And they had this program in there called the Sexual
23:03
Speaker 2: Offenders program that they wanted me to be involved in.
23:07
Speaker 2: And I'm like, hell, you want me to be involved
23:10
Speaker 2: in the sexual offenders program? And so I had people
23:14
Speaker 2: make suggestions and say stuff like, you know, even my
23:16
Speaker 2: family just say just just do the program, play along
23:20
Speaker 2: with them so that you can get out. And so
23:23
Speaker 2: you actually think about this, you know, crazy thought. But
23:26
Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, I can't sit there and say I
23:29
Speaker 2: did something that I didn't do. So I went ahead
23:32
Speaker 2: and got into the program for a little while. And
23:35
Speaker 2: as I was in the program, you go through the
23:37
Speaker 2: first half, I felt terrible. I'm sitting in the room
23:40
Speaker 2: with sexual predators, rapists and child molesters, and I just
23:45
Speaker 2: I just don't feel right. I don't say anything. I'm
23:48
Speaker 2: just sitting there in the room every day going to
23:50
Speaker 2: this little class. And then finally they complete that part
23:53
Speaker 2: and you get to the second portion of the program,
23:56
Speaker 2: and they say that order to complete the program, you
23:58
Speaker 2: have to sign an admission again up and I'm like,
24:01
Speaker 2: what sign a mission to guilt? I said, I can't
24:04
Speaker 2: do that. I can't do that because I'm not guilty.
24:08
Speaker 2: And then I went to see my counselor, and the
24:11
Speaker 2: counselor looked at me and looked me in my eyes
24:13
Speaker 2: and told me said, listen, if you don't sign that
24:16
Speaker 2: mission to guilt, you'll probably never ever get out of prison.
24:19
Speaker 2: You'll be here for the rest of your life. And
24:21
Speaker 2: so guys were taking this course and signing the missions
24:24
Speaker 2: of guilt and then they would get parolled out. But
24:28
Speaker 2: I sat there. I thought about it. I prayed about it,
24:30
Speaker 2: and I thought about it. I said to myself, I'd
24:33
Speaker 2: rather die in prison to sit there and say that
24:35
Speaker 2: I did something that I didn't do. I said, what
24:38
Speaker 2: kind of life would I have come out of prison
24:40
Speaker 2: with that stigma over me. I said, I couldn't live.
24:43
Speaker 2: I'll walk out into my yard and the neighborhod run
24:45
Speaker 2: out and grabbed the children and run inside the house.
24:48
Speaker 2: That's not a life, that's not a life. So I
24:51
Speaker 2: refused to do it. Those years went on, and those
24:53
Speaker 2: years went on within prison, and I remember getting to
24:57
Speaker 2: a point where my tempers started getting short, I started
25:00
Speaker 2: being anti social. I felt like a walking time bomb.
25:05
Speaker 2: I felt like a rubber band being stretched to a
25:08
Speaker 2: point that was just getting ready to take pole and
25:11
Speaker 2: just pop. And I remember at that point, at that time,
25:15
Speaker 2: I just got down on my knees and I prayed.
25:18
Speaker 2: I prayed, and I couldn't deal with the burden. That's
25:21
Speaker 2: when God entered into my life and my life changed.
25:24
Speaker 2: And then I remember hearing about DNA technology.
25:37
Speaker 5: This is down getting to the part of the story that's,
25:40
Speaker 5: you know, always the best part, I guess, right, which
25:44
Speaker 5: is when things turn around in the right direction. And
25:47
Speaker 5: in your case, it was the Innocence Project, which obviously
25:51
Speaker 5: I have a very close connection with, being the founding
25:53
Speaker 5: board member and being having served on the board for
25:56
Speaker 5: so many years and so many years alongside you, and
25:59
Speaker 5: so you started learning about the DNA technology and it
26:04
Speaker 5: must have been like a light bulb going off, like, wait,
26:06
Speaker 5: there might be hope for me after all.
26:08
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that's exactly what happened. I was working in
26:13
Speaker 2: the library in the prison. Because of my educational background,
26:18
Speaker 2: they gave me a job in the library, and they
26:21
Speaker 2: had the regular library for the prisoners to convicts, and
26:25
Speaker 2: they also had a law library that you could use
26:30
Speaker 2: at times. And the staff member who he ran both libraries,
26:35
Speaker 2: and he would allow me to have access to go
26:37
Speaker 2: into the law library whenever I wanted. And one day
26:40
Speaker 2: I stumbled across an article of DNA technology where people
26:46
Speaker 2: were actually getting out of prison based on this technology,
26:50
Speaker 2: and I said, Wow, now I'm trying to figure out
26:53
Speaker 2: how the heck can I get a DNA test.
26:56
Speaker 1: I really really, really really really.
26:58
Speaker 2: Wanted to do that to to prove that I was innocent,
27:02
Speaker 2: but that was a struggle in his self. And they
27:05
Speaker 2: had a guy named Jim Browner Jim Bonner. He used
27:08
Speaker 2: to come into the Prisident. He was with the project
27:10
Speaker 2: called Prisident Legal Counseling Projects, who did little simple stuff
27:15
Speaker 2: like haybist corporates for prisoners and so forth. And I
27:19
Speaker 2: talked to him. I told him about my situation, and
27:22
Speaker 2: he's actually the one that got the bass started in
27:24
Speaker 2: the beginning, because when I told him about it, I
27:27
Speaker 2: told him my whole story. And after that I looked
27:29
Speaker 2: him in the eye and said, you don't have to
27:30
Speaker 2: believe a word, I said, I said, but let me
27:32
Speaker 2: send you my transcript. And I gave him my transcript
27:36
Speaker 2: and one day he read it and he came back
27:38
Speaker 2: he said, Man, I can't believe this. He said, I'm
27:41
Speaker 2: really I really wanted to try to do something to
27:42
Speaker 2: help you, because this is an atrocity in itself, and
27:46
Speaker 2: he said, I just can't believe that this happened to you.
27:49
Speaker 2: And he started trying to see if there was some
27:51
Speaker 2: type of way that we can do something about my situation,
27:56
Speaker 2: and he found basically emotionn't called the extraordinary motion based
28:02
Speaker 2: on newly discovered evidence, and to try to see if
28:05
Speaker 2: they even had the evidence, if it still existed. And
28:08
Speaker 2: so they went on the search to see if the
28:10
Speaker 2: evidence even still existed, and in my case is one
28:13
Speaker 2: of the really strange cases because at first they couldn't
28:17
Speaker 2: find it. But what happened was they had actually were
28:22
Speaker 2: going to destroy the evidence. There was no laws at
28:24
Speaker 2: that time. They said they had to keep it after
28:26
Speaker 2: after the trial, and the evidence had been thrown into
28:29
Speaker 2: a trash bend to be destroyed, and somebody from the
28:32
Speaker 2: court they saw it and they said, hey, why is
28:35
Speaker 2: this evidence being destroyed and throw it away, and they
28:38
Speaker 2: took it and they put it.
28:39
Speaker 5: Back hold on a second miracr The evidence that freed
28:43
Speaker 5: you was actually in a trash can and somebody saw
28:46
Speaker 5: it and had like your name on it or something
28:48
Speaker 5: like that, and was like, wait, let me pluck that out.
28:50
Speaker 5: Is that that seems like it seems unreal?
28:53
Speaker 1: It does.
28:54
Speaker 2: It does seem very unreal. But this is exactly how
28:57
Speaker 2: it was explained to me that it was actually, you know,
29:00
Speaker 2: in the trash bend to be destroyed.
29:03
Speaker 1: I look at that. It was a miracle. It was
29:05
Speaker 1: a miracle.
29:06
Speaker 2: And so the evidence was was brought back out and
29:10
Speaker 2: that was the evidence that they were going to test.
29:12
Speaker 2: But then after that they took and the prison and
29:16
Speaker 2: Legal Counselor project that was helping me with this guy,
29:20
Speaker 2: they actually stopped the project. So I'm looking, I said, well, wow,
29:24
Speaker 2: now what did I do? And then a friend, a
29:27
Speaker 2: friend of mine who knew the plight of my situation,
29:30
Speaker 2: who lived in Ohio, who I grew up with.
29:33
Speaker 1: They were at I.
29:34
Speaker 2: Guess what you call a place where you hand out
29:37
Speaker 2: food and clothing and so forth to people to come
29:39
Speaker 2: through that are in need. And some guy this was
29:42
Speaker 2: in Ohio. I don't know who the guy was, but
29:44
Speaker 2: some guy was in the line and he was young.
29:48
Speaker 2: And my I call my aut Marty, who was my godmother.
29:52
Speaker 2: She said, well, you know, man, why don't you have
29:55
Speaker 2: a job. Why are you in this line? And he said, well,
29:58
Speaker 2: I just recently got out of prison. And he told
30:00
Speaker 2: her about he mentioned about the Innocence Project. He said,
30:04
Speaker 2: they got me out of prison for a crime I
30:06
Speaker 2: didn't commit. And they said, wow, you know, give us
30:09
Speaker 2: the information. Just give us that information and we'll bring
30:11
Speaker 2: you some more clothes and help you out a little
30:14
Speaker 2: bit more. Just give it the information card. We know
30:16
Speaker 2: somebody in the same situation. And they wrote me a
30:18
Speaker 2: letter and he gave me the information about the Innocent Project.
30:21
Speaker 2: And that's when I got in contact with the Innocent Project.
30:24
Speaker 5: And this was not too long after the Innisce project
30:26
Speaker 5: had started, because we're talking about late nineties now, right,
30:31
Speaker 5: And so yeah, so you because I know that you
30:33
Speaker 5: were the first DNA exonery in Georgia, right, Yes, that's
30:41
Speaker 5: a powerful thing. I mean, that's that no one's ever
30:44
Speaker 5: going to take that away from you. I know that's
30:45
Speaker 5: not you know, I always say to all the guests
30:48
Speaker 5: that we have on the show. You know, I'm happy
30:50
Speaker 5: you're here, but i'm sorry you're here because you're a
30:52
Speaker 5: member of a club that no one should ever have
30:54
Speaker 5: to be a member of, and no one would ever
30:55
Speaker 5: want to be a member of. But that is an
30:57
Speaker 5: amazing distinction. And of course now you're so serving with
31:00
Speaker 5: distinction not only on the Interst's Project board in New York,
31:02
Speaker 5: but also the board of the Georgia Intercess Project. So
31:05
Speaker 5: that's so there's two there's two miracles here, right, One
31:08
Speaker 5: is pulling the thing out of the garbage can, and
31:10
Speaker 5: the other is bumping into this guy sort of randomly
31:13
Speaker 5: who had this information that you were looking for. And
31:17
Speaker 5: then things started to really progress.
31:20
Speaker 2: Once I got involved with the Innocence Project. Actually, uh,
31:24
Speaker 2: you know, once they took it, I actually I had
31:27
Speaker 2: very strong faith in them. I believed once they took it,
31:29
Speaker 2: I said, okay, wow, just a matter of time before
31:32
Speaker 2: I walk away and then I'm free. But then they
31:35
Speaker 2: took and they had my evidence tested, and once they
31:39
Speaker 2: had it tested, it came back where it was inconclusive.
31:43
Speaker 2: At first, it actually came back inconclusive. And then I
31:46
Speaker 2: remember talking to Barry and Peter on the phone, and
31:50
Speaker 2: they were saying, you got a choice. You know, what
31:52
Speaker 2: are you going to do now? They said, all the
31:55
Speaker 2: evidence is basically almost almost used up. If we continue
31:59
Speaker 2: to test, then what happened is if we use up
32:02
Speaker 2: out evidence, you'll never get out of prison. Come, we
32:04
Speaker 2: won't have anything else to test. All You can wait
32:06
Speaker 2: till years later when technology improves, as we get better technology,
32:11
Speaker 2: then we can test that small amount of evidence and
32:13
Speaker 2: try to get the proper result. They said, we do
32:16
Speaker 2: an know a guy in California named doctor Edward Blake
32:19
Speaker 2: who's really good. Now it's up to you to make
32:22
Speaker 2: that decision. And I decided, you know, at that time,
32:25
Speaker 2: I said, well, you know, let's go ahead. Let's go ahead.
32:29
Speaker 2: I we rather were using up or not, you know,
32:31
Speaker 2: let's go forward. And they sent it out to a
32:34
Speaker 2: guy named doctor Edward Blake, and doctor Edward Blake tested
32:37
Speaker 2: it and he came back with the results. And I
32:39
Speaker 2: can't really say how you know the numbers, but I
32:43
Speaker 2: know will proven beyond any reasonable doubt that there was
32:46
Speaker 2: no way through then that technology that I could could
32:48
Speaker 2: have committed the crime. And that was in November of
32:52
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight. And it still wasn't until nineteen ninety
32:57
Speaker 2: nine before I actually was able to walk out of prison.
33:01
Speaker 5: So let's talk about that. June fifteenth, nineteen ninety nine,
33:05
Speaker 5: was your exoneration date. And what was the scene in
33:10
Speaker 5: the courtroom. Let's do this again, right, so this is
33:14
Speaker 5: your back in court. Was it the same court where
33:17
Speaker 5: you were convicted?
33:19
Speaker 2: It wasn't the exact same courtroom, but it was still
33:22
Speaker 2: it was Clayton County with Clayton County. Well, I can
33:25
Speaker 2: remember before I before I even walked into the courtroom,
33:29
Speaker 2: Peter Newfield was there and he was my attorney that day.
33:33
Speaker 2: And Peter walked up to me and said, uh, Calvin, uh, there's.
33:38
Speaker 1: Going to be some some some newspeople.
33:40
Speaker 2: It shouldn't be that bad, but there's gonna be some
33:43
Speaker 2: cameras and so forth that may be uh waiting on you.
33:47
Speaker 2: And he asked me. He looked at me, he said, Calvin, Uh,
33:50
Speaker 2: what do you planning to say? And you know I
33:54
Speaker 2: have a way of answering questions and I just looked
33:56
Speaker 2: at him and said, Peter, don't worry, I'm not going
33:58
Speaker 2: to embarrass you and just kind of laughed.
34:01
Speaker 1: And then we went.
34:02
Speaker 2: Into the courtroom, and I remember my family was there.
34:06
Speaker 2: My mother couldn't be there because she was bedridden at
34:10
Speaker 2: the time, so she was in a medical facility but
34:14
Speaker 2: so she couldn't be there, but my father was there,
34:16
Speaker 2: my sisters were there. I remember the judge going through
34:20
Speaker 2: the proceedings and I remember him saying, well, mister Johnson,
34:24
Speaker 2: you're free. I remember the prosecutor. He walked over to
34:27
Speaker 2: me and he he never did apologize or anything. He
34:32
Speaker 2: just kind of reached out and I did shake his hand.
34:35
Speaker 2: People wondered, would I even shake his hand, But yes,
34:37
Speaker 2: I shook his hand. I shook his hand and he
34:40
Speaker 2: said something like, well, uh, I wish you the best.
34:45
Speaker 2: But you know, at the time, we felt like we
34:47
Speaker 2: were doing what was right, you know, so you know,
34:50
Speaker 2: and I kind of I didn't say anything, and so
34:53
Speaker 2: we walked on out and all these cameras were there,
34:56
Speaker 2: and so it was a good feeling. I walked out,
34:59
Speaker 2: and you know, this sunshine. It was another beautiful day,
35:03
Speaker 2: and all I wanted to do was go see my mom.
35:05
Speaker 2: And I went to see my mom and she was
35:07
Speaker 2: bed rim She had a trichia and her throat so
35:10
Speaker 2: she couldn't hardly talk but I saw when she saw
35:13
Speaker 2: me a tear, a tear ran down her face, and
35:16
Speaker 2: I told her that was a tear of joy, and
35:18
Speaker 2: that was the most special moment of me being released
35:21
Speaker 2: when I walked into that room.
35:22
Speaker 5: It's a beautiful moment, like you said, and it's so
35:25
Speaker 5: great that she lived to see it. You know, it's
35:28
Speaker 5: this silver lining in this dark cloud. And so one
35:32
Speaker 5: of the silver lines in this dark cloud. And now, Calvin,
35:36
Speaker 5: let's see it's now here. We are twenty eighteen. So
35:39
Speaker 5: you've been out for nineteen years now, and tell us
35:44
Speaker 5: what your life is like. I know you went to
35:47
Speaker 5: work for the transportation authority down there. Marta wrote a book.
35:52
Speaker 2: Yes, wow. Well, first of all, when I got out
35:56
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety nine, I got involved with a company
35:59
Speaker 2: called tech Real, which was a Christian company, and they
36:02
Speaker 2: actually I went on a missionary trip with them to
36:04
Speaker 2: your Godda, Africa, and that was amazing. It was a
36:09
Speaker 2: very humbling experience because it's a very it's a third
36:12
Speaker 2: world country and people are very poor over there. But
36:15
Speaker 2: we went over there and we actually went into the
36:18
Speaker 2: bush area. We went to Capola University and they made
36:22
Speaker 2: me the main speaker and I was shocked because we
36:24
Speaker 2: had other ministers with us who had churches, but yet
36:28
Speaker 2: they made me the main speaker. I couldn't believe it,
36:30
Speaker 2: but I shared my story. It was very well received,
36:33
Speaker 2: and it was a very humbling, humbling experience. And I
36:37
Speaker 2: remember my dad making jokes like saying, hey, you know,
36:40
Speaker 2: you're just as you're two minutes of fame. It said,
36:43
Speaker 2: it's not gonna last. But it just kept going on.
36:45
Speaker 2: It kept going on. And I remember being on different
36:49
Speaker 2: shows different Today, good Morning America, The Today's Show, and
36:55
Speaker 2: BT with Tavis Smalley, and here I am traveling around
36:59
Speaker 2: and I'm speaking and I'm sharing. And then I remember
37:02
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago went by and they formed
37:05
Speaker 2: the board of directors for the Innocent Project in New York,
37:08
Speaker 2: and they actually asked me would I like to sit
37:11
Speaker 2: on the board of directors? And I was shocked. I
37:15
Speaker 2: mean it was I was so honored to be asked.
37:18
Speaker 2: I was the first designery in the in the country
37:21
Speaker 2: to sit on the board like that on the Innocence Project. Well,
37:24
Speaker 2: I mean this, this was it was. It was amazing
37:26
Speaker 2: to me, uh, just to be able to sit there
37:29
Speaker 2: and to share and to give my my input. You know,
37:33
Speaker 2: sometimes I actually sometimes I felt overwhelmed being around such
37:37
Speaker 2: powerful people, and I remember I was being so thankful.
37:40
Speaker 2: I remember sometime driving down the street and just looking
37:43
Speaker 2: at my house and and almost crying. You know, I
37:47
Speaker 2: didn't cry, but I would feel like crying because I
37:50
Speaker 2: was just so thankful that that people that I didn't
37:53
Speaker 2: even know reached out to to try to help me.
37:56
Speaker 2: The volunteers, the supporters, the state have, the attorneys, people
38:03
Speaker 2: that I look now as being great people in my eyes,
38:05
Speaker 2: who are not just great people, but they're my friends.
38:08
Speaker 2: I look at Barrysheck and Peter Newfield and Maddie Delone
38:11
Speaker 2: and the Jason Floms of the world as great people
38:15
Speaker 2: that have made a difference. They have changed lives, that
38:18
Speaker 2: are making difference into this judicial system that we have
38:22
Speaker 2: in this country. That's not perfect. It's a great country,
38:25
Speaker 2: but the system has some flaws because anything that man
38:28
Speaker 2: may not be perfect. And so my life went on.
38:31
Speaker 2: My life went on. I've been married twice. My first
38:36
Speaker 2: marriage I end up getting a divorce, and my second marriage,
38:38
Speaker 2: believe it or not, I'm actually going through a divorce.
38:42
Speaker 1: But hey, I'm free. I'm free.
38:45
Speaker 2: I've been at my job now at the Transportation Agency
38:48
Speaker 2: with Martyn Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit Authorities for nineteen years.
38:53
Speaker 2: I could probably retire in another year if I want to.
38:56
Speaker 2: And I still do a little a few speaking engagements,
39:00
Speaker 2: travel here and there and share my story. As you said,
39:03
Speaker 2: I did write a book called Exit the Freedom, which
39:06
Speaker 2: I tell people is not just a physical exit, but
39:08
Speaker 2: it's a spiritual exit also, And so my freedom came
39:12
Speaker 2: even actually before I walked through those doors. I felt
39:15
Speaker 2: free on the inside and that meant a lot. And
39:19
Speaker 2: that's why I was able to forgive and let go
39:21
Speaker 2: and move on with my life, which was one of
39:23
Speaker 2: the most important things that I could do, was take
39:25
Speaker 2: control by forgiving and letting go through the power of
39:29
Speaker 2: God and saying thank you, thank you for this opportunity
39:33
Speaker 2: to the people that touched my life and made it possible.
39:37
Speaker 1: And here I am now. I live, I have a
39:39
Speaker 1: nice home. Jason.
39:40
Speaker 2: You know, I got three dogs, my daughter lives with me,
39:44
Speaker 2: and I got a sports car, and I don't I
39:48
Speaker 2: don't ride motorcycles anymore. I rode motorcycles for years. I
39:51
Speaker 2: love motorcycles, but I actually gave it up this year
39:54
Speaker 2: in January and that's that's this is my life.
39:57
Speaker 1: I I'm very very m beautiful.
40:00
Speaker 5: Uh it's a beautiful ending. It's not an ending, but
40:03
Speaker 5: it's a beautiful phase that you're in, I guess you
40:05
Speaker 5: could say, with the with the three dogs and the
40:07
Speaker 5: daughter and the and you. And it's like, uh, it
40:12
Speaker 5: really does put a smile on my face thinking about
40:14
Speaker 5: how how you've been able to you know, persevere and
40:19
Speaker 5: overcome and and really triumph and build this wonderful life
40:23
Speaker 5: for yourself. Before we wrap up, Calvin, I'm actually remembering, Uh,
40:28
Speaker 5: you and I shared the stage one time at an
40:30
Speaker 5: and it is Project event and this was right after
40:33
Speaker 5: you had gone to Aspen, Colorado and you told the story.
40:37
Speaker 5: Do you remember that story?
40:39
Speaker 2: Oh?
40:40
Speaker 1: Which one the one when when you and yeah, you
40:44
Speaker 1: can remember, I remember.
40:47
Speaker 2: I really yeah, I love to tell that story because that,
40:51
Speaker 2: you know, that was one of the highlights since I've
40:54
Speaker 2: been free.
40:54
Speaker 1: That was one of the highlights.
40:56
Speaker 2: Is that is at the top, I mean next to
40:58
Speaker 2: you know, my daughter being barn and these events like
41:02
Speaker 2: that which are very special because uh, you know, but
41:05
Speaker 2: this this this was I remember I had a speaking
41:07
Speaker 2: engagement in Aspen, Colorado. Okay, never been to Asspen, never
41:11
Speaker 2: been to Colorado, never been skinned before in my life.
41:15
Speaker 2: And I'm just I'm just planning to go there for
41:17
Speaker 2: a couple of days. I remember, Uh, you and I
41:20
Speaker 2: we spoke and you said, you said, Calvin, you can't
41:23
Speaker 2: go to Aspen just for a couple of days and
41:25
Speaker 2: not ski. You hold up, let me let me, let me,
41:28
Speaker 2: let me take care of something. Let me make a
41:29
Speaker 2: phone call. Next thing I know, you called me back
41:31
Speaker 2: and you say, hey, you know, Calvin, you know you're
41:34
Speaker 2: gonna stay there for for almost a week, you know,
41:36
Speaker 2: some more, a couple of extra days, and I'm gonna
41:39
Speaker 2: have somebody who's gonna get in touch with you, and
41:42
Speaker 2: you're gonna go skin. And sure enough, I went out
41:45
Speaker 2: there and a guy came and he introduced himself and said,
41:48
Speaker 2: I'm here on behalf of Jason Flom. He took me
41:51
Speaker 2: uh and brought me some ski gear and so forth,
41:54
Speaker 2: and then we went to the uh with skin and
41:56
Speaker 2: I had a private instructor, and I remember what the
41:59
Speaker 2: private instructor he. Uh. He kept taking me back and
42:03
Speaker 2: forth on the baby slope because this is my first
42:06
Speaker 2: time ever skinning in my life. But I'm loving it.
42:09
Speaker 2: And so the second day, I went, skin, I'm begging
42:12
Speaker 2: this guy to take me to the top of the mountain.
42:15
Speaker 2: But he's you know, he's like, man, this is just
42:16
Speaker 2: your second day's skin, I'm not going to take you
42:19
Speaker 2: to the top of the mountain. I said, you got
42:21
Speaker 2: to take me to the top of the mountain. I said,
42:22
Speaker 2: I don't know if I ever do this again in
42:24
Speaker 2: my life. I said, this is this. I want to
42:26
Speaker 2: go to the top of the mountain. And at that time,
42:28
Speaker 2: I used to ride sport bikes, and I had sport bikes.
42:31
Speaker 2: They should go zero to sixty in two seconds. And
42:34
Speaker 2: so I'm telling this guy, said, hey, hey, man, I
42:37
Speaker 2: ride a motorcyculd have go zero to sixty in two seconds. Now,
42:40
Speaker 2: if I can do that, you could take me to
42:41
Speaker 2: the top of the mountain. And so I went to
42:43
Speaker 2: the top of the mountain and I started coming down
42:46
Speaker 2: and when I first took off, I hit one of them.
42:48
Speaker 2: I guess I was on one of them slopes. I
42:49
Speaker 2: guess it was one of the higher degrees, and I fell,
42:53
Speaker 2: but I got right back up, and then I said, okay,
42:56
Speaker 2: I got it. This time I got to keep zig
42:57
Speaker 2: zagging to slow myself down, and so I got up
43:00
Speaker 2: and I kept zig zagging back and forth going down
43:03
Speaker 2: the slope. And then when I got to the point
43:05
Speaker 2: where I could see the bottom, I turned straight and
43:09
Speaker 2: I just started flying. And then I can hear the
43:11
Speaker 2: guy that instruct it behind me, hollering. He behind me, hollering,
43:14
Speaker 2: slow down, slow down, slow down. Now I'm just flying
43:18
Speaker 2: down the slope having a great I got the biggest
43:20
Speaker 2: smile on my face from ear to ear.
43:22
Speaker 1: And I get to the bottom and I don't fall.
43:24
Speaker 2: I spend sideways and I stop, you know, and he's
43:28
Speaker 2: behind me just shaking his head.
43:30
Speaker 1: And I'll never forget that.
43:31
Speaker 2: I'm so thankful to you, Jason, for giving me the
43:33
Speaker 2: opportunity to go skin. I haven't been skinned since, but
43:37
Speaker 2: that one time, I'll never fundy.
43:39
Speaker 5: I actually remember, if I remember, correct me. It was
43:42
Speaker 5: a long time ago, but I remember when you gave
43:43
Speaker 5: that speech and you said, you said, he says, I'm
43:46
Speaker 5: not taking you to talk about it, and you said
43:47
Speaker 5: to him, it's slightly different than what you just told
43:50
Speaker 5: me now. But I don't know which version is correct.
43:52
Speaker 5: But you said, I survived sixteen years in a maximum
43:56
Speaker 5: security prison. Take me to the top of the mountain,
43:59
Speaker 5: and I was like, oh.
44:00
Speaker 1: Man, yeah, yeah, I did. I said that too.
44:04
Speaker 5: So that's a great story and I'm glad it just
44:07
Speaker 5: came back to me. It must have been fifteen years
44:10
Speaker 5: ago when I heard you tell that story. But Calvin,
44:13
Speaker 5: we have a tradition at Wrong for Conviction, which our
44:17
Speaker 5: listeners are very familiar with by now. I think it's
44:21
Speaker 5: a lot of people's favorite part of the show. I
44:23
Speaker 5: know it's my favorite part of the show. And that's
44:25
Speaker 5: the part of the show where I stopped talking. And
44:28
Speaker 5: as we wrap up and before I thank you one
44:31
Speaker 5: final time for being here, I just want to leave
44:33
Speaker 5: the mic on and ask you if you have any
44:36
Speaker 5: final thoughts that you want to share with our audience.
44:40
Speaker 1: It's all yours.
44:43
Speaker 2: First of all, I just like to say that I'm
44:46
Speaker 2: very thankful. I like to thank my mother and my father,
44:50
Speaker 2: who no longer here. My father passed away in June
44:53
Speaker 2: or this year, and that was a little bit rough
44:57
Speaker 2: because I got to spend a lot of time with them.
45:00
Speaker 2: I mean, I are very we were very close, and
45:03
Speaker 2: my mother and I we were close. She passed away
45:06
Speaker 2: back in two thousand, but they instilled in me a strength.
45:10
Speaker 2: I used to always say, you're from good stock, You're
45:12
Speaker 2: from good stock, and he gave me that inner strength,
45:16
Speaker 2: and that's what helped me when I was in prison.
45:18
Speaker 2: Despite everything, I will not let prison break me.
45:22
Speaker 1: In prison with.
45:23
Speaker 2: Design is designed to tear you down, destroy you, and
45:26
Speaker 2: break you into what they want you to be, and
45:29
Speaker 2: I wouldn't let them do it. I never allowed them
45:31
Speaker 2: to break me. I stayed positive. There were times when
45:36
Speaker 2: it was a little bit rough, but all in all,
45:40
Speaker 2: you know, I believe that one day that even with
45:42
Speaker 2: the flicker of hope was just about to go out,
45:45
Speaker 2: that candle was about to be distinguished. I still had
45:48
Speaker 2: that flicker of hope that one day that I will
45:50
Speaker 2: walk out of free man. And I actually said that
45:52
Speaker 2: on the day of my sentences, that I believe that
45:56
Speaker 2: the truth will come out one day. I can say
45:58
Speaker 2: thank you all day long because there's so much to think.
46:01
Speaker 2: And those who I haven't even mentioned by name, I'm
46:04
Speaker 2: thankful to them because, uh, there's volunteers that I don't know,
46:08
Speaker 2: the supporters that I don't know. There's some staff members
46:12
Speaker 2: that I don't know up at the Innocent Project. But
46:17
Speaker 2: the project has grown so much. It was so small
46:19
Speaker 2: when I first got out. Now it's a it's a
46:22
Speaker 2: it's a nation. Guy has a national network, has projects
46:25
Speaker 2: all across the world, and it's it's it's really unbelievable.
46:29
Speaker 2: I got a chance this year to go to the
46:30
Speaker 2: UH to the network conference and to see how it
46:34
Speaker 2: has grown and to see that there are people there
46:36
Speaker 2: from from different countries, and it was I'm just I'm
46:41
Speaker 2: I'm glad to be a part of this. This this
46:43
Speaker 2: this amazing movement that's making a difference and changing laws
46:48
Speaker 2: and not only changing laws, but helping people to get
46:50
Speaker 2: the life back started all over again. And that's basically,
46:54
Speaker 2: you know, all that I can say right now is thank.
46:57
Speaker 5: You, Calvin. I want to thank you for being so
47:00
Speaker 5: to a great advocate and just such a great example
47:03
Speaker 5: of human potential. And the work that we do is
47:08
Speaker 5: you know, because of people like you, and you know,
47:12
Speaker 5: we'll never stop. We're going to keep fighting and fighting
47:15
Speaker 5: and fighting until there's no more fighting left to be done.
47:19
Speaker 5: And so again, Calvin, I just want to thank you
47:21
Speaker 5: for sharing your story here on Wrongful Conviction. I wish
47:25
Speaker 5: you all the best. I want to thank in addition
47:28
Speaker 5: your the ski instructor, the one that the two Day
47:30
Speaker 5: Ski instructor Chuck Kessler for keeping you alive in spite
47:34
Speaker 5: of the fact that you made it difficult for him,
47:37
Speaker 5: and yeah, and anything. The last question I want to
47:41
Speaker 5: ask you is if people want to book you for speaking,
47:44
Speaker 5: are you still doing that? Would you like to share
47:47
Speaker 5: an email address or a website or anything like that.
47:50
Speaker 2: Yes, that's my email address is e x I t
47:56
Speaker 2: O f R E e x oh free e x
48:01
Speaker 2: I t O f R E E at yahoo dot com. Uh,
48:06
Speaker 2: feel free to email me anytime. I'm still doing speaking engagements.
48:11
Speaker 2: And yes, I'm available off days on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.
48:15
Speaker 1: I do work. I do have a job, but I
48:18
Speaker 1: usually can fit it in audio.
48:19
Speaker 5: So email Calvin for bookings or for advice on phishing
48:23
Speaker 5: or anything else you can think of.
48:25
Speaker 1: Maybe he'll even give you a ski lesson.
48:27
Speaker 5: Calvin, thank you again.
48:28
Speaker 1: For being here.
48:29
Speaker 5: I look forward to seeing you again soon. And to
48:32
Speaker 5: our audience, thank you read the book too, Exit to Freedom,
48:37
Speaker 5: Calvin Johnson, Exit to Freedom, don't forget to order that
48:41
Speaker 5: and uh, I'm gonna order one myself today too. So
48:46
Speaker 5: once again, thank you to everyone for tuning in. This
48:49
Speaker 5: has been a very special episode with my friend and
48:53
Speaker 5: Xannerie Calvin Johnson.
48:55
Speaker 1: Thank you, Jason, don't forget to.
49:02
Speaker 5: Give us a fantastic review. Wherever you get your podcasts.
49:05
Speaker 1: It really helps.
49:07
Speaker 5: And I'm a proud donor to the Ennosnce Project and
49:09
Speaker 5: I really hope you'll join me in supporting this very
49:12
Speaker 5: important cause and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go
49:16
Speaker 5: to innosonsproject dot org to learn how to donate and
49:19
Speaker 5: get involved. I'd like to thank our production team, Connor
49:22
Speaker 5: Hall and Kevin Wartis. The music in the show is
49:25
Speaker 5: by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure
49:29
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Speaker 5: Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm
49:36
Speaker 5: is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association
49:40
Speaker 5: with Signal Company Number one