Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / Ep. 222 ~ Good Lord Billy Joe...

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Ep. 222 ~ Good Lord Billy Joe... · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

0:14
Everything is going to hail down here in Daxtas. Yeah, what's up,
1:04
everybody? Welcome to the show. This sears your boy big blah vibe with
1:08
you coming in hot on this ass microphone. Hold on a second, all
1:17
right, maybe that'll be a little better anyway, what's up? This is
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episode two hundred and twenty two of the Loan gun Man Podcast, and today
1:30
we're gonna be talking about Oswald's voyage to Europe via the SS Marrying Lights.
1:41
We will also be discussing the antics of the FBI in light of the events
1:52
of the assassination and what was going on behind the scenes. We all know
1:59
that the FBI wants to always paint a picture, you know, of this
2:04
pristine organization that can do no wrong. So it's interesting to see what they
2:13
were self disciplining themselves behind the scenes. What we'll get there, I promise
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um. First off, if you'd like to follow along and interact with the
2:30
show, Twitter at the Loan Goverment seven boom. That's it. I want
2:38
to get into a troll fest. Head over to YouTube and search for the
2:43
Loan Government podcast channel. Make sure you like and subscribe and get notifications when
2:49
new videos dropped. There I said it. Also a lot of people are
2:57
asking Roger. Theme music is done by the band Shepherd on Fire. The
3:05
intro track is called Unwanted and the outro track is called Black River. And
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once again, thank you Roger and Shepherd on Fire for allowing me to use
3:20
you're awesome music as themes for the show. It's much appreciated and makes the
3:27
show sound fucking awesome. So there's that, all right. So let's get
3:35
into Oswald's trip. Okay, So Oswald is in the Marine Corps, right,
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he is granted an early gook jars to take care of his mother,
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who had a candy jar fall on our face. Now, I'm not sure
3:57
if this is a legit excuse or what's going on here? You know,
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apparently that's the excuse. M. Marguerite never refuted it. Marguerite said a
4:14
lot of shit throughout the years until she died, but she never refuted the
4:19
candy jar and the face story. So for what it's worth, So,
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upon returning home to take care of his busted up mother, he uh,
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well, within three days he stays here about three days, I guess.
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He helps her out, He pulls her, pulls her nostrils, back out
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of her brain um and within three days he is hopping on a freighter heading
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her Europe. Okay. Freighter heading called the SS Mary and the Lightness oh
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y k E s Now. The SS Marion Lakes was not a love boat
5:08
type brood ship you know of in any former fashion. It was more of
5:13
a cargo ship. In fact, there were only four passengers other than straight
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up cargo and freight on this ship making their way to Europe. There was
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of course Lee Hoggy Oswald. Where was a fellow who we're gonna be talking
5:34
about here today by the name of Willie Joe Willie Joe Lord, Oh Lord,
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Willi Joe Lord. And then there was also some kind of military major
5:48
and his wife Okay on board. So to take you through the story.
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On June twenty six, nineteen sixty four, there was an affidavit executed for
6:08
the President's Commission on the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy in the form
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of very sworn Affidavid I, Billie Joe Lord, being duly sworn say,
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I am an airman third class in the United States Air Force. I am
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in the three hundred fortieth Bomb Wing Combat Defense Squadron at Bergstrom Air Force Base
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in Texas. I am twenty two years old that my parents lived in Midland,
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Texas. After graduating from Midland High School in nineteen fifty nine, with
6:56
the financial assistance of my parents, I made plans to continue my education in
7:00
France. Something in August from nineteen fifty nine, I made an application of
7:13
a passport. An on or about September fifteenth, nineteen fifty nine, I
7:18
departed Midland, Texas via train for New Orleans, Louisiana, arriving there at
7:24
about September seventeenth, nineteen fifty nine. I spent the next three days touring
7:31
the city of New Orleans and making several trips to the ticket office of the
7:36
Likes Lines. The cost of passage aboard the S S. Marion Likes mounted
7:45
to slightly more than two hundred dollars, okay with Paul's there for a second,
7:56
so it was about two hundred bucks for a trip to year up on
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the SS Marion Lights. Now this is I mean Oswald had just gotten out
8:05
of the Marine Corps. He likely would have had money saved up from the
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time that he was in the corps, so this is not an on the
8:13
remo possibility that. Okay, Oswald paid his way. You know this is
8:20
not post return where he's hopping from job to job with Marina and the kid
8:28
and not making any money scraping by. So okay, we can go with
8:35
that. Please continue, Billy Joe. All right. I registered and stayed
8:43
in the LaSalle Hotel on Canal Street, which was near the City Library.
8:50
I visited the library several times during the stay in the city. During this
8:54
period, I did not know Lee Harvey Oswald. Now I thought long and
9:03
hard about reading this and the Billy Joe Lord voice, but I decided to
9:09
see against it. Um. I likely couldn't make it through. Um,
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so that's on me. You know, I'm just not feeling up to the
9:20
task today, So pardon me. It'll just be written or read in the
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old Rob Clark accent, big bad Bob accent, whatever whatever you want to
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call it. Oh God, damn it here, Billy Joel Lord, No,
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I can't. I can't do that. On September the twentieth, nineteen
9:48
fifty nine, I boarded the freighter SS Marion Likes at New Orleans. Upon
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boarding the ship, I was shown to my room, and when I got
9:58
there, Harvey Oswald was already there and moving in. We were to share
10:05
this room. I had never before seen nor heard of Lee Harvey Oswald.
10:11
Lee Harvey Oswald and I shared this cabin for the duration of the trip to
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France, which was fourteen days long, folks, fourteen days long. So
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that's two weeks. Yeah, my dad, Belly Joe Lord here was stuck
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in a cabin with Lee Harvey Oswald on his long ass trip over to the
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Europe. I'm going to go study in France. Get me an edge location,
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you know what I'm saying. So two weeks is a long time to
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be stuck in a tiny cabin on a giant ship with somebody you don't know.
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Now. Fortunately they happened to have a similar background. They're both former
11:01
military, they're both about the same age, so you know, you would
11:07
think that they would talk. All right, let's continue high. In our
11:15
first conversation, Oswald said he was recently discharged from the Marines and then he
11:22
had worked in some technical field while in the Marines. He indicated that he
11:26
was somewhat bitter about the fact that his mother had to work in a drug
11:31
store in Fort Worth and was having a quote difficult time. He also said
11:37
he would probably return to the United States to work. He gave no indication
11:43
of his ultimate destination, although he said he was going to travel to he
11:52
was going to travel. He was going to travel somewhere and in Europe and
12:00
possibly attend school in Switzerland if he had sufficient funds. Also, in this
12:05
first conversation we discussed religion. I do not know. I do not know
12:13
why we discussed religion, except that possibly he noticed it I had a Bible.
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Oswald maintained that he could not see how I could believe in God in
12:24
view of the fact that science had disproved the existence of God and that there
12:28
was only match her. After the first day, I hardly conversed with Oswald
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at all. Oswald was not outgoing, and neither was I. We just
12:41
were not very friendly individuals. Besides Oswald and myself, there were two other
12:48
passengers aboard the ship. They were a retired US Army colonel and his wife,
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Colonel and missus George B. Church Junior. All four of the passengers
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generally ate their meals together in the ship's officers mess. Oswald ate most of
13:03
his meals with us. I do not recall Colonel at Church and his wife
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associating very much with Lee Harvey Oswald. I shared a closet with Oswald,
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but I did not notice anything out of the ordinary among Oswald's possessions. He
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did show me either his military identification card or his passport, I can't remember
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which. Oswald did not indicate that he might defect the Russia at all the
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best of my knowledge. Oswald did not receive any correspondence or communications while aboard
13:37
the ship, nor did he associate with any of the ship's crew. Oswald
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never mentioned any contacts or friends in Europe. He appeared to be a normal,
13:48
healthy individual, mentally alert, but extremely cynical in his guneral attitude.
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On October the fifth, nineteen fifty nine, our ship arrived France and I
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disembarked from the ship, and I never saw or heard from him again.
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It's my recollection that he departed from the ship after my departure. I had
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written my mother about all the passengers, and when Oswald affected, she sent
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me a newspaper clipping about it. Oswald's been a great deal of his time
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during the trip on the deck. I do not recall him doing any reading.
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I do recall, however, that there was a radio speaker which received
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programs from Europe, and that Oswald and the colonel seemed to understand a little
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bit of the foreign language that came over the speaker. I thought it was
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German, but I'm not sure. I attended the Institute of France Studies that
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the city of Uller, Province, Tourraine, France, from October fifty nine.
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In February sixty two, its teramintedly while attending courses at the University of
15:05
Quatul to those France and at the Supreme we have that wrong something Sorbonne University
15:22
of from Paris, France. I returned to the United States aboard a board
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be something ship Liberty in June of nineteen sixty. I went to France again
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in February of nineteen sixty one for further education and return of the United States
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in February of nineteen sixty two. Signed this twenty sixth day of June nineteen
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sixty four. Billy Joe, Lord, good Lord, all right, So
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there's what, Billy Joe, how did you say? The Warrenant Commission.
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That's his alfa, David Folks Billy Joe. On December second, nineteen sixty
16:11
three, Billy Joe Lord was interviewed by the FBI. Apparently they tracked him
16:18
down pretty quick, and this is what their report says. Billy Joe Lord,
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US Air Force assigned to eight hundred and sixty second Combat Defense Squadron my
16:32
Not Air Force Base, Rural Minor, North Dakota. Advised as follows.
16:37
He entered the United States Air Force on September twenty eight, sixty two,
16:40
at Amarillo, Texas, and has been assigned to the Mino, the Air
16:45
Force Base in Rural my Not since December sixteenth, nineteen sixty two. Okay,
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so, at the time he was on the boat with V. R.
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Vosswold, he was not military yet. Apparently he joined after if you
16:59
see his education abroad. In the spring of nineteen fifty nine, he graduated
17:07
from the Midland High School, Midland, Texas. In the fall fifty nine,
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traveled to France, where he intended to enter a language school to obtain
17:14
a major in language and literature. He first met Lee Harvey Oswald when he
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departed from New Orleans the latter part of September fifty nine aboard the S S.
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Marian Likes, a freighter. Oswald occupied the same cabine as Lord.
17:29
En route to France. He recalled observing Oswald's passport and visa and noting the
17:36
name Lee Harvey Oswald on the passport. However, he was unable to recall
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at this time Oswald's destination as reflected on the visa attached to the passport.
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He did recall that the freighter stopped at only two ports, Lace Police France
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and Import in England, and that Oswald did not disembark in France. In
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addition to himself and Oswald, there were only two other pagels on the freighter,
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namely have retired US Army major and his wife. Names unrecalled who he
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believed were from the state of Florida. Okay, so during his FBI interview
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he could not remember their names. But seven months later and his Affidavid to
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the Warrant Commission, he does, okay, uh, we believe who he
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believed were from the state of Florida, he vaguely recalled they were traveling to
18:38
either Ireland or Swatland. During the entire trip, he ate actually had very
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little conversation with Oswald, as Oswald was a very cynical, surly unfriendly type
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of individual who obviously did not desire to associate or engaged in conversations with his
18:57
fellow passengers. On the first day of his trip, Oswald did engage in
19:03
a very limited amount of conversation. He recalled Oswald told him that he intended
19:07
to vacation in Europe, with no specific area in Europe being mentioned. He
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further recalled Oswald saying that he might possibly attend some unknown school in Switzerland.
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Oswald had no time indicated that he had any intention of going to Russia.
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He never had any reason to believe Oswald could be an agent of any foreign
19:29
government or that he was inclined towards Communism, he advised. Oswald never discussed
19:36
his background with him, other than the state that he was from New Orleans
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and was just recently discharged from the RNs. Oswald stated that his mother lived
19:44
in Fort Worth and was employed in a drug store in Fort Worth. Oswald
19:48
seemed very bitter about the economic conditions of his mother. Oswald, however,
19:55
did not comment on the economic conditions in the United States were discussing to confuse
20:00
he recalled it. Although Oswald never specifically stated he was an atheist, he
20:06
gave this impression stating that on one occasion that only matter existed and everything came
20:11
from matter. Oswald appeared to be somewhat of an intellect, having above average
20:15
intelligence, but did not appear to do any reading aboard the ship. Oswald
20:21
did not appear to be a violent or a fanatic individual. The first time
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he actually knew that Oswald had traveled to Russia was when he was in receipt
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of a newspaper clipping from his mother, Missus Leela Lord Leada Lord, from
20:38
Midland, Texas, in which it was reported that Lee Harvey Oswald, a
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twenty year old X marine from Fort Worth, had he announced his American citizenship
20:49
and it turned in his American passport and requested Russian citizenship. He said he
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believed the article appeared in the Fort Worth newspaper during November nineteen fifty nine.
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His mother had recalled the name of Oswald from a letter he Lord had written
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to his mother upon arriving in France, mentioning to her that Oswald had been
21:11
his roommate on his voyage over Yonder. All right, it's pretty cut and
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dry stuff, right, you know, nothing nothing to see here, nothing
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too crazy. And then froms the year nineteen seventy seven, when old Billy
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Joe Lord, that's a bright idea of writing a letter to America's most beloved
21:36
president, mister Jimmy Carter. Yeah, near, mister President. I have
21:49
refrained from troubling you with the contents of this letter as long as I possibly
21:56
could, But I have finally decided that the personal letter to you is in
22:02
the end in your interest and in the country's interest. I'm simply trust grabbing
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notes which I sit down about two weeks ago, and which concerned and must
22:12
concern any leader of this country. All right, Sir, was Lee Harvey
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Oswald's roommate tabinmate on the SS Marion Likes, which sailed from New Orleans to
22:26
France in this September of October nineteen fifty nine. I have recently been the
22:33
subject of surveillance, harassment, pressure tactics, and possibly terror tactics. First
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in September, when I was teaching in Japan, someone broke into my house
22:47
rifled through my papers, but stole nothing. I returned to the United States
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shortly thereafter, and back in Texas. I was suddenly and then probably sorry.
23:03
I lost my place here suddenly, and I'm probably the subject of a
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blitz of contacts by telephone from persons wanting to know urgently and insistently what I
23:15
knew or remembered about Oswald. No one had asked me anything about Oswald since
23:19
the time it had warrnant commissioned twelve years ago. The blitz of calls came
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out of the blue. It was highly improbable, and after the break in,
23:29
I was suspicious. I stalled these people, who represented two major national
23:34
publications during this period of non cooperation. I received another surprise, another first
23:42
from me. Two Iranian gentlemen, bald, mustachioed, pointy shoes I appeared
23:56
at my door. My mother's house was up for sale and they were perspective
24:02
buyers. A small ad had been placed in the paper. The Iranians strode
24:07
through the rooms in a very cresory, almost arrogant manner, based off the
24:12
front yards, and drove away. The sale of the house had been discussed
24:18
on the phone among family, a small ad had been placed. Only one
24:22
other couple showed up to look at the house. Neither I nor my mother
24:26
sixty three, had ever received a visit from Iranian gentleman before. One of
24:34
the parties which has plits me with phone poles trying to persuade me to tell
24:37
them what I know about Oswald. Is engaged in a very costly project which
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allows them to locate, interview, monitor, and influence every single available person
24:48
whoever knew Lee Harvey Oswald. And this just in advance of the new governmental
24:52
investigation by the House Select Committee on Assassinations. I fully I finally consented not
25:02
to grant an interview, but to allow the publication's representative to explain their project
25:08
to me in person. After a lunch with this person, I was told
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that if I refused even to meet with him, pressure was in the offing
25:18
through two Midland men. Mister Jim Allison, publisher of the Ultra Conservative reported
25:25
telegram my employer out of necessity and for the moment, and mister George Bush
25:30
Junior. The researcher said he had asked an acquaintance, a mister Beamis,
25:38
chairman of the Republican Party in Virginia, an owner of a string of hotels
25:44
in that state, for help in persuading me to tell what I know about
25:48
Oswald. After this revelation, and when I still refused to be interviewed,
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the publication's leg man made an effort to purchase my knowledge about Oswald. I
25:57
refused, and he left. Shortly thereafter, my mother discovered that her telephone
26:03
had been bugged. The casing around the dialing apparatus had been pulled out about
26:08
a half inch. It was so obvious as to be grotesque. But we
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cannot doubt that someone entered the house at a time when I was at work
26:19
and my mother was away. She returned to the house, however, at
26:23
an unaccustomed time. I have been in anguish for weeks, mister President,
26:29
trying my best to laugh at my apprehensions and to see these events as fortuitous
26:34
ones. Experience, common sense, and logic persuade me otherwise. So I've
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been compelled to react to all this in the form of a statement, and
26:45
it may shed some light on the reasons for the intrusions late lately into my
26:49
life. Speaking is the man who spent more than two weeks in the same
26:55
ship's captain with Lee Oswald at the time of his nineteen fifty nine the effect,
27:00
and speaking as a man who has been who had been the subject of
27:04
the above described tactics of Howers, I offered the following considerations to the American
27:11
people and to people everywhere. Number One, it is CIA and FBI relations
27:18
with Leoswald which has been covered up since November twenty two, nineteen sixty sixty
27:22
three. It is the CIA and the FBI which have concealed and destroyed evidence
27:29
of their relationship with Oswald prior to November twenty two, sixty three. It
27:34
is the CIA which has from the beginning fabricated or distorted certain Cuba Oswald relations
27:41
and certain Cuba JFK relations as a smokescreen and decoy to conceal the CIA Oswald
27:47
relationship. I can testify and others can testify that the CIA did not conduct
27:53
a real investigation of the so called defector Oswald in fifty nine. The CIA
28:00
has long been concerned about witnesses who can testify to this oversight on their part.
28:07
Number five, they did not conduct a real investigation because mister Oswald was
28:11
a bogus defector. Number six, The CIA is concerned lest the knowledge that
28:19
Oswald was a fake defector in nineteen fifty nine, linking him to the CIA,
28:25
and also linking him with the CIA on November twenty two, sixty three.
28:30
But there is an impressive body of evidence that CIA used and abused Oswald
28:34
as late as November sixty three, number seven. It is the CIA Oswald
28:41
relation to the FBI Oswald relation which have necessitated the thirteen year cover up.
28:47
In eight, A necessary conclusion is that CIA and FBI elements in sixty three
28:52
are suspected in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. Nine. The assassination
28:59
of John Entity has every appearance of something that our first American who deta mister
29:07
President as a man, a father, and a concerned citizen, I plead
29:12
that you would act energetically. Also if you were in my shoes, I
29:17
believe that you should be aware of the fact that one of your fellow citizens
29:21
does not feel that he, his wife and three children, and his mother
29:25
are safe in Middland, Texas. I conclude, mister President, by assuring
29:30
you that I have the most enormous respect for you and the most hope inspiring
29:34
indications of your good will as of your rare ability to lead this nation without
29:41
flattery. You are quite simply the political light of this period in history.
29:47
May God be with you. I apologize for the crude and doubtless offensive tone
29:52
of this letter. I hope you understand, sincerely, Bill Lord to know
30:00
more Billy Joe folks, just Bill. Finally, we also have the envelope
30:10
that's the best too, President of the United States, the Executive Office of
30:14
the President, sixteen hundred Pennsylvania Avenue Northwest, twenty five hundred Airmail Special Delivery
30:26
Jones. Now, apparently, mister Lord it's tired of being harassed, in
30:41
his view, and has some certain thoughts about the FBI and the CIA at
30:47
this point in nineteen seventy seven, And I can't say that he's very far
30:52
off base. You know, he believes that they see the fake defecting program
31:00
him was part of the CIA project. He believes the FBI had ties to
31:06
Oswald, and he believed in the CIA for doing things with Cuba, and
31:15
I wanted to cover up that fact. So I can't say that he was
31:18
too far off base. He was definitely a man ahead of his time with
31:23
his knowledge of just a regular citizen with grand delusions. The descending president in
31:33
nineteen seventy seven gave it two damns about him, which prompted this FBI response
31:44
some three weeks later from then Director of the FBI, Clarence Kelly, who
31:53
was not one by Richard Nixon in eighteen seventy three. He was the first
32:01
not acting director. He was the first director after Jager Hoover's death. He
32:15
served until from nineteen seventy three to February of seventy eight, so almost five
32:23
years. He was a lifelong FBI guy. Retired from the FBI in nineteen
32:30
sixty one, went on to become chief police in Kansas City, Missouri.
32:38
Very involved in police associations received him Hoover met Gold Medal We're Outstanding job service
32:45
in nineteen seventy. This guy was a definitely a Hoover stalwart. So we
32:58
have this letter rememberandum from the Director of the FBI, Clarence Kelly, to
33:06
the Special Ason in charge of al Paso, February twenty fourth, nineteen seventy
33:13
seven. Enclosed were two copies of a letter an envelope received from the complainant
33:19
Bill Lord. Also enclosed were two copies of an f D three h two
33:24
reflecting an interview with a Billy Joe Lord on eleven thirty sixty three, and
33:30
two copies of an affidavit of a Billy Joe Lord as it appears in the
33:34
Warren Commissioner Report we've read from both of those folks. El Paso Division is
33:40
requested to contact Billy Joe Lord acknowledge of the letter and obtained full details regarding
33:52
any additional information he wishes to provide regarding the allegations set forth in his letter
33:58
of February second, nineteen seventy seven, euro Indices revealed that a Billy Joe
34:04
Lord was in fact a cabin mate of Lee Harvey Oswald during a two week
34:08
ocean voyage from New Orleans to Europe which took place in nineteen fifty nine.
34:14
During the course of your interview with the complainant, ensure that he has advised
34:19
in any fears he may have for his personal safety should be referred to the
34:22
local lease and not the President of the United States nor the FBI. If
34:30
a review of a passo Indices should preclude interviewing the complainant, set forth your
34:36
recommendations for not interviewing him in an inappropriate communication. However, if the complainant
34:42
is interviewed, su lh omn the results within twenty one days. Note,
34:52
the plainant in his letter of two two seventy seven, indicates that he was
34:57
a cabin mate of Lee Harvey Oswald in nineteen fifty nine. The complainant was
35:00
interviewed by our Minneapolis division in November sixty three regarding said voyage, and the
35:07
complainant additionally filed in Affidavid with the Warrant Commission and no time do the complainant
35:12
mention any of the allegations specifically pointed out one through nine as set forth in
35:17
his letter of two two seventy seven. This instructs l PASO to interview the
35:22
complainant regarding any additional information he may have and to s U LHM the results.
35:32
So they are to go talk to Billy Joe lord I guess nicely explained
35:47
to him to stop writing letters to the President of the United States and drowning
35:52
out wild accusations about the CIA and the FBI, and then if he's concerned
35:57
it all about his personal saying too that he should give a talk to his
36:00
local police department and not the FBI or the President. Thank you very much,
36:06
have a great day, Billy Joe lord In, You're fifteen minutes of
36:10
fame. Bill, fuck yourself. I just find it so hard to believe
36:16
that you know of the people that spent all this time with Lee Harvey Oswald,
36:20
he'd never talked to him. Even when you're the only other motherfucker on
36:25
a passenger or on a ship brown for Europe, a two week long trip.
36:31
You're sleeping in the same room with him every night. Your underwear it's
36:37
volded next to his underwear in the closet for two weeks straight. That you
36:45
never talk about anything meaningful. I find it so hard to believe. I
36:52
don't know. Maybe that's just me, all right. Next upsode table,
36:58
a little bit about the notorious FBI came across this. Some newspaper articles from
37:10
New Orleans Times Pecune sent to Dan Hardway on the US House Select Committee on
37:17
Assassinations. Dear Dan, enclosed are two newspaper articles which might interest you in
37:23
light of Lee Harvey Oswald's activities in the Fair Play for Cubic Committee in New
37:28
Orleans during the summer sixty three. Please play ast them on to any members
37:32
of this day if you might be interested in them. Presently, i'm preparing
37:37
them Rember Random on Oswald and the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, which I
37:40
hold to complete before I returned to school in mid January. I will certainly
37:45
send you a copy when it's finished. Best of luck in the coming year,
37:47
Sincerely, Mark Allen. So the first thing we have here. From
38:08
November thirty, seventy seven New Orleans Time Pecune an article by Kenneth Weie entitled
38:17
FBI in New Orleans set up a phony right wing group to discredit the clan.
38:27
The New Orleans office of the FBI waged an extensive dirty tricks campaign against
38:34
Louisiana units of the ku Klux Klan during the nineteen sixties in an effort to
38:39
disrupt and demoralize the organization. Went into newly released government files. At one
38:46
point, the FBI set up a completely fictitious right wing organization to discredit the
38:53
KKK leadership and lured clan members to join in it. The New Orleans FBI
39:02
office also suggested, but apparently they were fully implemented, a detailed plan to
39:07
harass leftist and anti war student groups at college campuses in New Orleans and elsewhere
39:15
in Louisiana. Documents reveal a wide net work of FBI sources and key informants
39:21
on Louisiana campuses who kept the government informed in detail on activities at kew Lane
39:30
University of New Orleans, Xavier Grambling and elsewhere. The FBI operations were part
39:37
of a national, long term campaign of disruption and harassment of groups the agency
39:43
considered subversive. Targets included the Clan, the Communist Party, so called New
39:51
Left organizations, and black extremist organizations. Details of the operation, called intel
40:00
pro short for Counterintelligence Program, were released by the agency in response to a
40:07
request under the FOI Act. More than fifty two thousand pages of previously classified
40:14
FBI files on the operation were made public. The documents, many heavily censored
40:22
before being released, revealed in unprecedented detailed FBI operations during the fifteen year harassment
40:30
program. There was ordered discontinued in nineteen seventy one, including use of the
40:36
press and media contexts to convey the messages the FBI wanted to disseminate it.
40:40
For example, the documents indicate that efforts to discredit the ku klus Klan included
40:46
assisting WWLTV and the production of a documentary on the organization. The assistance was
40:53
being in the form of information given to the television station by the agency on
40:57
a confidential basis. The emphasize the clans violent and unlawful activities. According to
41:04
the documents, In another incident, the FBI consider distributing copies of an article
41:12
that appeared in The Times Pecune, which urged the crackdown on radical student groups.
41:15
However, the documents are silent on what, if any role the FBI
41:21
had in getting newspaper the newspaper to initially publish the article. The New Orleans
41:28
FBI officers dirty tricks campaign against the clan included formation of a fictitious right wing
41:34
organization called the National Committee for Domestic Tranquility or otherwise than as the NCDT,
41:45
which issued a newsletter in personal correspondence to clan members in an attempt to discredit
41:50
it to discredit Robert Shelton, the Imperial Wizard of the United Clans of America,
41:58
it is the objective of the Bureau to create the impression that within the
42:02
invisible Empire exists the Semblance Open, an organization which seeks to criticize clan leadership.
42:14
The phony organization operated from a Dayton, Ohio post office box, had
42:17
a fictitious executive director who worked to the address of known clan members and even
42:23
opened a regional office in Alabama. As part of the dirty tricks campaign,
42:30
the FBI sent tourist literature from the DC Chamber of Commerce to clan members.
42:37
The mailing was quote intended to further instill a fear in these clansmen they would
42:43
be called to testify before the House Committee on Unamerican Activities. According to the
42:49
documents, the mailings for clan members appears to have been successful and remembered the
42:53
developed secrecy which historically is supposed to surround the clan. So you know,
43:02
I'm reading you this so you get the idea of the links that the FBI
43:09
would go to with their co intel pro operations to discredit and diminish and ultimately
43:20
disband certain groups. And then there's this also another newspaper article from The Washington
43:28
Post from November the twenty second, nineteen seventy seven, exactly fourteen years to
43:35
the day after the assassination by John Jacobs staff writer, entitled FBI proposed using
43:43
prostitutes to shame Castro backers. Shortly after the unsuccessful Bay of Pigs invasion of
43:50
Cuba in April nineteen sixty one, the FBI began a campaign to infiltrate pro
43:54
Castro groups in the United States and publicly discredit their leaders by such means as
44:01
setting them up with prostitutes. Newly released FBI documents have revealed the anti Castro
44:08
campaign, with part of the FBI's massive counterintelligence program Cointel, pro to neutralize
44:15
and disrupt domestic groups and individuals known to be critical of American policies. Nointel
44:22
documents released yesterday under a Freedom of Information Act request showed that in June of
44:29
sixty one, j. Edgar Hoover approved establishing hotel programs and Cuban Field and
44:37
are in an attempt to disillusion current members of such procaster of groups as July
44:42
twenty sixth Movement and the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. The documents do not
44:50
mention Lee Harvey Oswald by name, whatever he claimed membership in the Fair Play
44:55
for Cuba Committee and said he had opened a New Orleans brand shortly after November
45:01
twenty seco sixty three, The group claimed disclaimed Oswald as a member. The
45:07
Warrant Commission later concluded that he had sought and been granted membership in the Fair
45:15
Played for Cuba Committee in May of nineteen sixty three. The documents reveal a
45:20
systematic pattern of disruption similar to co intel pro operations against such groups as the
45:25
Socialist Workers Party and the Black Panther Party. The New York Office of the
45:31
FBI, which originated the program, sought to create and fostered distrust and an
45:37
antagonism among the officers, and also recommended using city and state law such as
45:44
fire, health, travel, and tax regulations who obstruct these groups. In
45:52
August eight, nineteen sixty one, memo from the New York Office to the
45:55
FBI Director described confidential sources setting up dates with leaders of the Fair Play for
46:02
Cuba Committee. The New York Office will make the necessary arrangements with local police
46:08
members said to possibly have Blank picked up on local charges in the of any
46:14
places himself in a compromising position through his association with professional prostitutes. If that
46:22
didn't work, the memos said, the Bureau would consider giving the prostitutes names
46:30
to the local vice squad along with the instruction. The quote discreetly indicate that
46:37
Blank was the source of the information regarding the arrest. In either event,
46:43
the memo concluded an NY the New York officers of the opinion at valuable ramifications
46:51
Night results to the benefit of the Bureau. Among the officials of the Fair
46:57
Play for Cuba Committee three, the embarrassment brought upon them to compromise the leadership
47:04
with the July twenty sixth movement, the Bureau wrote a phony letter to the
47:12
move Amiento Revolutionaryo in Havana, accusing a key leader in the New York group
47:17
of embezzling movement funds. The letters suggested a total reorganization of the executive board.
47:25
Blah blah blah deleted. Is nothing more than a counter revolutionary worm,
47:32
a draft of the funding letter said, and his attitude has destroyed the foundations
47:37
of the movement, but there is still time to try him and let him
47:42
serve as an example to those who make trouble for the revolution. So you
47:47
can see that even as early as nineteen sixty one, the FBI was trying
47:55
to discredit various procaster groups, including the Fear Played for Cuba Committee, and
48:02
has been alleged on this show before. It appears to be exactly what they
48:08
were setting Oswald Well to do concerning the Fair Play for the Cuba Committee.
48:25
Now, let's get back to what the FBI was doing concerning Oswald and its
48:34
various contacts over the years with Oswald. So in June twenty six, nineteen
48:40
sixty two, and Fort Worth agent John Fayne and Burnett Tom Carter interviewed Lee
48:49
Harvey Oswald, the first interview by the FBI of Oswald. Upon his return
48:53
from the USSR, Oswald agreed to contact the FBI should he be contacted by
49:00
a Soviet intelligence. Two weeks later in Dallas, James Hosted checks the records
49:10
of i NS for background information of Marina Oswald on the request of agents Fame.
49:20
One months later in Fort Worth, John Fame determination of Oswald's employment,
49:28
alert Oswald to possible Soviet interest in him evaluation if Oswald constituted a security risk
49:36
to the US. Host he keeps Marina Oswald case, not the Oswald's case.
49:46
Marina Oswald's case in inactive pounding status for six months from the period of
49:54
July sixty two to Marches sixty three. March four six. Host he determines
50:00
Oswald and his wife have moved from Fort Worth to Elsbe Street in Dallas.
50:07
This ends the six month pending status of the case and this starts host these
50:12
efforts to investigate Marina on the basis that the FBI conducts an investigation of immigrants
50:17
on a selective basis, and Marina was then selected. A week later in
50:25
Dallas, host He determines from Elsbe Street landlady that the Oswalds had been evicted
50:32
a week earlier. When March the third, postal authorities reveal Oswald's new address
50:38
his two one four Neely Fret. A couple of days later, host He
50:45
verifies the Neely Street addressed. Hostie then checked Oswald's files and files a letter
50:52
from the New York FBI office advising Oswald was on the mailing list of the
50:59
New York paper Daily Worker. March twenty fifth, sixty three, Hosting sends
51:07
a request the FBI headquarters to reopen the Lee Oswald case. Mid May sixty
51:15
three, Hosting Lawrence that the Oswalds have left in Nearly Street address. June
51:21
of sixty three, host He receives a communication dated April twenty one, sixty
51:25
three from New Orleans FBI advising a confidential informant reports that Oswald has been in
51:32
contact with the Fair Play for the Cuba Committee in New York, at which
51:37
time Oswald said he had passed out pamphlets for the FPCC. June seventeenth,
51:44
in Dallas, host He receives the communications New Orleans FBI advising Oswalds in New
51:50
Orleans and requesting information on him. August tenth, New Orleans, John Quigley
51:58
the interview conducted at Oswald request to speak to an FBI agent following his arrest
52:02
for disturbing the piece while distributing FPCC pamphlets. Three weeks later, October third,
52:12
Dallas hostee receives a communication from New Orleans advising that the Oswalds have left
52:16
the New Orleans area. Three weeks later, October twenty fifth, Dallas host
52:24
he receives communication from New Orleans FBI advising him Oswald had visited the Soviet embassy
52:34
in Mexico City, interesting that they knew that. Early October twenty nights,
52:51
hoste Dallas receives communication from New Orleans FBI advising that Oswald's new addresses twenty five
52:59
fifteen West Street, Irving, Texas. Also same day, host he makes
53:07
a pretext call to Dorothy Roberts of twenty five one nine West fifth Street and
53:13
determines that the twenty five fifteen address is the residence of Ruth Payne, with
53:19
whom Marina lives. So you got a host he knocking on the neighbor's door
53:24
asking about this. Yeah, that's not going to start a ship show in
53:28
the neighborhood. Remember First, Dallas Hosty interviews Ruth Payne, who admits that
53:35
Marina lives with her, but not Lee. Paint informs Hosty Oswald works at
53:38
the Dallas, Texas Book Depository. Host he meets Marina for the first time,
53:49
leaves his name and phone number with Ruth Payne. Three days later,
53:53
Dallas Hosty makes a pretext call to the book Depository and confirms the twenty five
54:00
fifteen West Fifth Street. A Dress sends request to New Orleans office to make
54:07
Dallas office of origin for Oswald case. So no wonder Oswald's getting pissed off.
54:13
You got people going to the neighbors, You got the FBI calling his
54:17
place of mark asking about him, went to verify an address. I mean,
54:22
come on, dude. One day later, Dallas Hosting the hosting and
54:32
Wilson learned from Payne that Oswald had visited family. Paine did not know where
54:37
Oswald lived in Dallas. Remember twenty second sixty three hosting and book out interview
54:44
conducted after Oswald was taken into custody. Following the shooting of JFK. Oswald
54:51
exhibits great hostility towards the FBI men, especially HOSTI who Oswald said that he's
55:00
heard about the four So I bet he did. If that dirty, nasty
55:07
rumor is true about post the raping Marina, hmm interesting, all right.
55:17
So you know when all this stuff went down with the assassination and Lee Harvey
55:23
Oswald, and you know, I just told you what the FBI did it
55:30
with his information. So, in December of nineteen sixty three, in connection
55:39
with Bureau of investigations concerning Lee Harvey Oswald and or the assassination of President Kennedy,
55:45
seventeen Bureau employees, five field investigative agents, one field supervisor, three
55:51
special Agents in charge, four FBI Headquarters supervisors, two FBI Headquarters Section chiefs,
55:58
one inspector, and one assistant director of the FBI were disciplined in December
56:02
of sixty three for shortcomings in connection with the investigation of Oswald prior to the
56:08
assassination. The disciplinary action taken was as follows. Now here's what happens,
56:19
folks, when you make the FBI look like fucking idiot. This is how
56:25
you get got by j Edgar Hoover, and it don't matter who you are.
56:31
From the field agent all the way up to an assistant director of the
56:36
FBI, he came down on him. You do not make the FBI look
56:40
bad in the eyes of the public. Never period, end of discussion,
56:45
folks. And of course none of this was made public at the time.
56:50
So here we go. Number one, a special agent in Dallas who had
56:53
investigated responsibility for the Oswald case was censured and placed on probation for inadequate investigation,
57:04
failure to interview Oswald's wife until after the assassination, delayed reporting, failure
57:10
to place Oswald on the Security Index, and for holding investigation in abeyance after
57:15
being in the receipt of information that Oswald had been in contact with the Soviet
57:21
embassy in Mexico City. And they named this guy, and I think we
57:25
all know who he is, Special Agent James Hostie Votes. And you may
57:32
be asking yourself, what does censured mean? Okay, really doesn't mean much.
57:39
The definition of censured is to express severe disapproval of someone or something,
57:46
especially in a formal statement. So basically they got written up and it's going
57:54
in their file, okay, which is never a good thing. When you
58:00
hear the words censured moving forward, you know what that means. But poor
58:07
hosting man. So he got censured, he got placed on probation. Number
58:15
two, the field supervisor in Dallas with supervisory responsibility for this matter was censured
58:22
and placed on probation as well, for failing to ensure that the case was
58:28
more fully investigated and reported, and for not placing Oswald on the security index,
58:32
and for concurring with decision to hold investigation in abeyance. You know there's
58:39
another big word, abeyance. What does that mean? It means a state
58:45
of temporary disuse or suspension. Basically means they're not doing shit about it when
58:54
they should be. Basis is what that means. Number three, a special
59:00
agent in Dallas was censured for failing to have the Oswald case reopened after being
59:07
informed that Oswald subscribed to The Worker, an East Coast communist newspaper. I'm
59:13
pretty sure that's fame. A lot of these names are not unredacted if you
59:22
will on this on this page. Number four, a special agent in New
59:29
York was censured for failing to promptly disseminate fair play for Cuba information. To
59:32
Dallas concerning Oswald. Number five, another special agent in New York was censured
59:38
for failing to ensure that the fair play for Cuba information concerning Oswald was more
59:44
properly promptly disseminated to Dallas. Number six, a special agent in New Orleans
59:51
was centsured for delayed reporting and failing to have Oswald placed on a security index.
59:58
Seven and eight too special in charge who were assigned to Dallas during periods
1:00:02
covering the Oswald investigation were censured for their overall responsibility in this matter. Time
1:00:10
Number nine is totally blacked out. I can read a little bit of it
1:00:17
says the special Agent in charge in the New Orleans office was censured for failing
1:00:28
to something, delaying reporting this matter, and for failing to put Oswald on
1:00:34
the security in deck. Number ten, an FBI Headquarters supervisor was censured and
1:00:42
placed on probation for family to instruct the field to conduct background investigation concerning Oswald
1:00:47
upon his return from Russia, Family to have Oswald's wife interviewed, Family to
1:00:52
put Oswald on security in decks, and for not reopening the Bureau of File
1:00:57
to follow on this matter. Another their FBI Headquarters supervisor was censured and placed
1:01:02
on probation with the famili to take action on a teletype advising that Oswald had
1:01:08
been in contact with the Soviet embassy in Mexico City, failing too completely,
1:01:15
failing to completely review the file until after the assassination, failing to instruct Field
1:01:20
to press more vigorously after obtaining knowledge of contact with Soviet embassy in Mexico,
1:01:27
and for failure to have Oswald placed on the Security Index. Twelve. Another
1:01:36
FBI Headquarters supervisor was centured for failure to place Oswald on the Security indecks in
1:01:40
spite of considerable fair play for Cubic Committee activity and previous Soviet defection background.
1:01:46
Thirteen. An FBI Quarters supervisor was centured for delay in handling a cable ground
1:01:52
from Mexico City and for not putting Oswald onto Security Index fourteen. Fifteen,
1:01:59
sixteen, and seventeen. Two section chiefs, an inspector, and an assistant
1:02:04
director of FBI Headquarters were censured for overall responsibility in this matter. In September
1:02:10
of sixty four, as a result of the Warrant Commission report, additional administrative
1:02:15
action was imposed on eight of the above mentioned employees. Who were previously disciplined
1:02:21
in sixty three. That disciplinary action is as follows. Number one, the
1:02:28
the case Asian in Dallas was censured, placed on probation, suspended for thirty
1:02:32
days without pay for inadequate investigation, failure to interview Oswald's wife, delayed reporting,
1:02:39
failure to place Oswald on the security indecks, and for a holding investigation
1:02:43
in abeyance after being in receipt of information that Oswald had been in contact with
1:02:47
the Soviet embassy in Mexico City. It has noted that Special Astion was also
1:02:52
transferred from Dallas to a non preference office which basically means a shithole office September
1:03:01
twenty eighth, nineteen sixty four, and this was Special Agent James Hosting number
1:03:07
two. The supervisor of this matter in Dallas, Gordon Shanklin, was censured,
1:03:14
placed on probation, and transferred for failing to ensure the case was more
1:03:17
fully investigated and reported for not placing Oswald on the security indecks, and for
1:03:23
curing in decision to hold the investigation in abeyance. He was also removed from
1:03:31
his supervisory duties publicly, I'm sorry privately. In April of nineteen sixty four
1:03:39
as a result of his deare elections in the Oswald case. In addition to
1:03:45
the above, eight three other employees who had not been disciplined as a result
1:03:50
of the Oswald case or discipline as below. Another special agent in Dallas was
1:03:55
censured and placed on probation for failing to properly handle and excuse me and supervise
1:04:01
this matter in relationship to the submission of evidence to the bureau. Number two,
1:04:08
an inspector at FBI Headquarters was censured for not exercising sufficient imagination and foresight
1:04:16
to initiate action to have the security index material disseminated to the Secret Service.
1:04:24
Number three, an assistant to the director at FBI was censured for his overall
1:04:29
responsibility in this entire fucking matter. True, I mean the FBI was coming
1:04:41
down on mother. I mean it goes on and on like this, poor
1:04:47
bastard. Another FBI Headquarters supervisor was censured, placed on probation, removed from
1:04:53
supervisory duty, demoded from a GS fourteen to GS thirteen. That means he
1:05:00
out of motherfucker pay cut, and transferred to the field instead of behind the
1:05:03
desk for families to take action. I want to teletype advising of Oswald's contact
1:05:09
with the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City, failing to completely review the file families
1:05:15
to instruct Field depressed more vigorously after Oswald's contact with Soviet Embassy in Mexico and
1:05:19
failure to have Oswald placed on the security index. I mean it goes on
1:05:24
and on. I mean they were dropping the hammer of the gods on these
1:05:29
people for dropping the fucking ball and not doing their due diligence. Folks,
1:05:41
one Oswald and his wife. So do you think they were covering shit up?
1:05:47
Oh? Hell yeah. Inspector Gale telephonically advised at ten forty five am
1:05:57
on this date that he desired exploit nations from James Hostie and the supervisor setting
1:06:03
forth the reasons why a stop was not placed on Oswald's passport with the Department
1:06:08
of State. Mister Gale stated the Bureau did not know Oswald even had a
1:06:13
passport, that he obtained one in June nineteen sixty three on a twenty four
1:06:17
hour turnaround, despite being a former defector. So there you go, folks,
1:06:31
you haven't heard of it before, but they were certainly behind the scenes
1:06:38
at the FBI. Hoo Hoover, not hoog Hoover, was shaking the trees
1:06:44
and rattling some bones because he realized how if this stuff got out, that
1:06:54
the implications of the assassination could be turned around and blamed on the FBI if
1:07:00
they were deemed to be incompetent in their duties. So they did not take
1:07:08
this shit lately, folks. But what are you gonna do? You can't
1:07:16
fire them all, and you can't fire them all. All right, folks,
1:07:26
that's it for another fantastic, hintilating, long gumming podcast just for you,
1:07:34
Episode two twenty two, Douce Douce douce. Then we can eat the
1:07:43
satellite down directly to your ears. Folks. This is your boy until next
1:07:48
time. What are you down out trying? My fast bel all I store
1:08:02
over the black I trust, So run down every bridge and devine and I
1:08:10
the rim now the bron and go without the sign. All that I can
1:08:15
say in the river you are drowning from the kinds of all the play of
1:08:25
the side in my rim. That's don't go fly being runs on damnage that
1:08:34
SHA shall fly for you. I'm the save them at the time that I
1:08:43
have my way. They don't going to going out the sign and a bed
1:08:48
rock tray can run down every bridge, and the b is like the real
1:08:56
Now I'm the barn and no one have the sign ill And I could say
1:09:00
in that grand you are fronding from my kisser, all my friend and brother
1:09:10
side and my grand that's gone gone finding, But I damn that's my shop,
1:09:20
my side. When I will always love you. Yeah, I've gone
1:09:28
away. I will wait for around file the time when I was alone with
1:09:59
my you still, so I won't be born around by the d and my
1:10:08
Grandma were flowing from the kind of all the friend brother side and my grand
1:10:20
that's also faring. But the damnage, I shall shop sid in my in