Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #956 Dysregulated & Dangerous

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#956 Dysregulated & Dangerous · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers. Now, Hello and
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: welcome to the Happy Famili's podcast. My name is Dr
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Justin Colson, flying solo today. Unfortunately Kylie couldn't join the
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: family stuff. This is how life goes sometimes, So every
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Tuesday we do our very best to answer your listener questions.
• 0:23
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• 0:26
  Speaker 1: can simply go to happy Families dot com dot Au
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  Speaker 1: voice message. It's so easy. Dive into happy Families dot
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  Speaker 1: com dot you and let us know what your challenges are.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: We'll do our best to answer them. Receive this one
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  Speaker 1: from Anna in Sydney via email. She said, Dear Doctor Justin,
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  Speaker 1: I have a friend who has a troubled son that
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  Speaker 1: she has struggled to manage all of his life. He's sixteen,
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  Speaker 1: one of three siblings. He refuses to go to school,
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  Speaker 1: has regular tantrums when he doesn't get his way. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: they are still happening as he moves through his teenage years.
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  Speaker 1: The tantrums could be for anything. From being asked to
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  Speaker 1: come inside at the end of a day, to not
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  Speaker 1: getting ready for school, to recently punching his brother because
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  Speaker 1: he was asked to come home from an event. I've
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  Speaker 1: watched the family bend to his will. All the children
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  Speaker 1: have to go to bed at the same time. When
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  Speaker 1: he was seven, his older sister, who was twelve, would
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  Speaker 1: have to be in bed at the same time. He
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  Speaker 1: always has a friend to travel with them on family
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  Speaker 1: holidays so he doesn't become bored and destructive, and he
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  Speaker 1: does nothing at home. I worry that this troubling behavior
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  Speaker 1: and my friend's inability to get on top of it,
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  Speaker 1: is only going to get worse as he moves towards adulthood.
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  Speaker 1: She is at her wits end, and I'm heartbroken watching
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  Speaker 1: her try and fail. Any suggestions. Anna in Sydney PS.
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  Speaker 1: Not sure if it's relevant, but my friend divorced her
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  Speaker 1: ex when the boy was a baby, but has been
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  Speaker 1: with her new husband from a couple of years later
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  Speaker 1: since he was about four. And by the way, what
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  Speaker 1: a dilemma. It ties in with another email that we
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  Speaker 1: received from an anonymous person who said, what do you
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  Speaker 1: do when your child is violent? When disregulated? When they
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  Speaker 1: hurt you or destroy things if they're neurotypical. So we
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  Speaker 1: go to try and tie these two together and hopefully
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  Speaker 1: find some responses that will be helpful. So let's dive
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  Speaker 1: into an answer. Parenting, as we all know, can be
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  Speaker 1: a challenge even under the very best circumstances. But when
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  Speaker 1: you're dealing with a child who seems to thrive and
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  Speaker 1: get energy from defiance and self senderedness and chaos, it's
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  Speaker 1: like navigating a mine field blindfolded. So what I would
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  Speaker 1: say is, your friend has undoubtedly been on a marathon
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  Speaker 1: of a journey already, and with this trouble boy just
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  Speaker 1: a few short years away from adulthood, the path ahead
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  Speaker 1: looks a little bit like scaling a mountain in a hurricane.
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  Speaker 1: This is a really trying time. It's kind of a
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  Speaker 1: time where you feel like you're supposed to be taking
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  Speaker 1: your foot off the accelerator and letting them close through
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  Speaker 1: to the finish, like this is supposed to be the
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  Speaker 1: easier part. And yet time and time again I hear
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  Speaker 1: from parents whose kids are driving them absolutely nuts in
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  Speaker 1: their later teen years. They as they scurry towards race
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  Speaker 1: towards adulthood. When you're trying to manage a child who
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  Speaker 1: resists authority and who is selfish. They prioritize their own
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  Speaker 1: desires above everyone else and above everything else, and leave
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  Speaker 1: chaos in their wake. It's a strain. I mean, this
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  Speaker 1: can test even the strongest bonds. And it sounds like
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  Speaker 1: we've got some very patient parents here and stepparents who
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  Speaker 1: are doing their best, but we've got a kid who
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  Speaker 1: is really pushing. So it's understandable that we've got someone
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  Speaker 1: who feels like they're at breaking point. But despite the
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  Speaker 1: challenges that are ahead, I think it's really important to
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  Speaker 1: remember that there's always time to turn things like this around.
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  Speaker 1: Before this kid steps into the world of being a
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  Speaker 1: fully independent man. Toothpaste isn't all out of the tube. Ye.
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  Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about this fully independent man idea
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  Speaker 1: again shortly, but let's just be clear on a couple
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  Speaker 1: of things. First off, hitting siblings and refusing to go
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  Speaker 1: to school and demanding friends be invited on family holidays
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  Speaker 1: all need addressing. But I feel like this is deeper
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  Speaker 1: than just a list of behaviors that are challenging and troubling.
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  Speaker 1: This is about the boy's fundamental orientation to life. He's
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  Speaker 1: lashing out, he seems to have done so for a
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  Speaker 1: very long time based on the email, and he's unwilling
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  Speaker 1: to contribute in the home. He just doesn't want to
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  Speaker 1: pull his weight. It seems like there's an element of
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  Speaker 1: selfishness for him. But also I'm reading into this a
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  Speaker 1: little bit some indulgence on the part of parents. There's
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  Speaker 1: limited accountability, there's limited responsibility, there's a willingness to bend
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  Speaker 1: to his will. This is a challenging one. Recently on
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: the podcast, we had a conversation about worst advice you've
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  Speaker 1: ever been given, and a number of people said the
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  Speaker 1: worst advice I ever got for parenting was that I
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  Speaker 1: need to break my children's will. So I want to
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  Speaker 1: be clear here, I'm not suggesting this kid's will needs
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  Speaker 1: to be broken, but we do need to work on
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  Speaker 1: him being respectful to authority and recognizing that limits and
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  Speaker 1: boundaries and structures and frameworks and systems, call them whatever
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  Speaker 1: you like, are necessary. Someone's got to be involved in
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  Speaker 1: helping this kid understand how the world works, otherwise he's
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  Speaker 1: going to become a man child. And we just hear
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  Speaker 1: too many stories about men who never get past that
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  Speaker 1: selfish orientation a couple of things that we need to highlight.
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  Speaker 1: When I look at this, I can think of three
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  Speaker 1: central challenges to overcome here in relation to limits and authority.
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  Speaker 1: First off, step parents often face a really tough job
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  Speaker 1: when it comes to laying down the law, even if
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  Speaker 1: they've been in a picture for ages, which it seems
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  Speaker 1: to be seems to be the case in this situation,
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  Speaker 1: teens will hit back with that classic line, you're not
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  Speaker 1: my real parent, why should I listen to you? Now?
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  Speaker 1: I would argue the premise, but the reality is that
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  Speaker 1: step parent intervention can ignite firestorms. This really does need
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  Speaker 1: to be if there's a co parenting relationship with the ex,
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  Speaker 1: if he's still involved and with mum. I think they've
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  Speaker 1: got to take the lead on this one because stepparent
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  Speaker 1: involvement is challenging. If not, then stepparent needs to be
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  Speaker 1: there as a backup and is right to step in
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  Speaker 1: and say, you know what. I know that I'm not
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  Speaker 1: your real dad, I know that your dad's over there,
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  Speaker 1: but the woman that I've married is my wife, and
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  Speaker 1: no one if someone walked into the house and spoke
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  Speaker 1: to my wife the way that you do, I'd drill them,
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  Speaker 1: i'd mail them, they'd be out on the ear, and kiddo,
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  Speaker 1: you're just crossing this line too many times. I know
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  Speaker 1: I'm not your dad, but I'm going to step in
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  Speaker 1: here and draw a line. Now. I know that there
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  Speaker 1: are some people, those who are super progressive, are going
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  Speaker 1: to say a woman doesn't need protection, doesn't need a
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  Speaker 1: man to protect her. Fine, if you don't want that,
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  Speaker 1: go for it. But I've seen it happen time and
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  Speaker 1: time and time again when teenage boys are disrespectful to
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  Speaker 1: their mum and their dad isn't present a step dad
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  Speaker 1: who gently steps in and says, I know I'm not
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  Speaker 1: your dad, and I'm not trying to take on that role.
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  Speaker 1: I'm drawing a line in the way that you treat
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  Speaker 1: this woman beside me because she's my wife. It makes
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  Speaker 1: a difference. And I know it's kind of a nineteen
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  Speaker 1: fifties idea that men have got to be there to
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  Speaker 1: protect their women, But sometimes we don't live in a
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  Speaker 1: perfect world. Like the world is not perfect, and sometimes
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  Speaker 1: kids just need that authority figure and they need to
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  Speaker 1: recognize that they've crossed the line. Cape second, a lot
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  Speaker 1: of people will assume that discipline and discipline's really needed here.
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  Speaker 1: Discipline it means that we need to come down hard
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  Speaker 1: and read the Ride Act to this kid and tell
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  Speaker 1: him to shape up or ship out. But that's not
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  Speaker 1: going to help. And the reason why is pretty clear.
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  Speaker 1: Rules without rapport a recipe for revolt, as well as
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  Speaker 1: that he's almost an adult and he's shown that he's
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  Speaker 1: willing to throw his weight around. So we're trying to minimize,
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  Speaker 1: not exacerbate tension. And if we come in all guns blazing,
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  Speaker 1: you meet fire with fire, right, everything just gets burned.
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  Speaker 1: It's a scorched earth. Policy doesn't work. So we've got
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  Speaker 1: to come up with a way to have the conversation
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  Speaker 1: that's not going to burn the earth. Third, turning the
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  Speaker 1: tie on long standing issues is not a quick fix.
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  Speaker 1: So like when you're trying to shed weight that you've
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  Speaker 1: gained over a couple of years, you don't drop it
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  Speaker 1: all after one gym session or even a week or
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  Speaker 1: a month or more of the gym. It takes a sustained,
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  Speaker 1: hardcore effort to build that positive change. And when I'm
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: looking at this scenario with this kiddo, these challenges are
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  Speaker 1: deeply rooted over time, and the climb is steep at
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  Speaker 1: this point, trying to get a lot done in a
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  Speaker 1: short amount of time. All right, on top of the
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  Speaker 1: question of setting limits, there are developmental realities that we
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  Speaker 1: have to face. Adolescence as a wild ride, especially for
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  Speaker 1: boys got testosterone and the rise, it's cranking up aggression.
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  Speaker 1: Empathy is taking a back seat plas at this age.
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  Speaker 1: It's all about instant gratification. Like you talk to a
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  Speaker 1: sixteen year old long term goals, what's it going to
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  Speaker 1: be like when you're twenty four? You can't even think
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  Speaker 1: about what's happening this weekend, Like the end of the
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  Speaker 1: year doesn't make sense. Forget about it. Asking a sixteen
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  Speaker 1: year old to think ahead, it's like brushing your teeth
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  Speaker 1: while you're munching on lobe larone. It just doesn't work.
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  Speaker 1: So as I weigh up these questions, I can't help
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  Speaker 1: but see a troubled teenage boy who's facing some pretty
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  Speaker 1: tough times ahead. And it's hitting close to home for
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  Speaker 1: this family, if I'm being real about it. A bit
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  Speaker 1: hard for me to acknowledge this, but I see shades
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  Speaker 1: of my own teenage self here. Too quick to anger,
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  Speaker 1: too rebellious, a lot of attitude wagging school, feeling like
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  Speaker 1: I'm owed the world. It makes me tremendously regretful when
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: I think about what I was like as a teenage boy,
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  Speaker 1: because I'm seeing a lot of me in this kid.
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  Speaker 1: But it also offers hope because I think, over the years,
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  Speaker 1: I managed to figure some important stuff out and it's
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: worked out well. So trying to beat entitled out of
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: the kid doesn't work. Cracking down only feels their resentment
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  Speaker 1: and ramps up tensions. The old school eye for an
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  Speaker 1: eye tactic is going to be useless. Teens are in
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  Speaker 1: their own world that they are actually blind to their
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: actions impact. I know I was when I was a teenager,
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  Speaker 1: I had no idea. And here's the critical thing before
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: we get to the game plan. They have reasons for
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: everything that they do, and when we mirror there be behavior.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: When we throw it back at them, when we say, well,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: if you're going to be like that, I'll be like
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: this to you, they go and play the victim card.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: They just cannot see where we're coming from or why
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  Speaker 1: we're reacting the way we are. Let's dive into the
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: game plan. The game plan is like this, grant him
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  Speaker 1: some autonomy. The kids on the brink of adulthood, itching,
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  Speaker 1: itching to spread his wings. But with freedom comes responsibility.
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  Speaker 1: So here's how I tackle it. First things, First, round
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  Speaker 1: up both sets of parents if you can, If you
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  Speaker 1: can get all four adults in the room with this kid,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: lay out some snacks. Food always eases the tension. And
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: if both sets of pearents can't be on this, you're
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: going to need to go at alone. But unified's better
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: than solo where possible. So sit down with your with
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  Speaker 1: his stepdad at the very least, and the dialogue goes
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  Speaker 1: like this. Now I'm going to walk through and explore,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: explain in power method, but it's a little bit different
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  Speaker 1: to normal because of the severity of the situation. Start
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: with some explanation. Explain there's been some tension brewing and
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  Speaker 1: it's been getting worse. It's time to address it. So
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: that's a very short explanation ten seconds or less, and
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: we keep it tight. There's been some tension brewing, it's
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: been getting worse. We're here to address it today. But
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: we're doing this with a smile on our face and
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: with food on the table. Now we explore, So instead
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: of laying down the law, let's hear him out. We're
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: here to back him up, believe in him, and understand
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: what he wants. So we want to dive deep and
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: just keep on asking questions. What is it that you want?
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  Speaker 1: What does adulthood look like for you? What does your
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: next couple of years as we move through to the
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: end of school and get you launched into the world,
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  Speaker 1: What do you want out of that? Do you want
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: to become a dad? Do you want to be going
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: to university? Do you want to be getting an apprenticeship?
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  Speaker 1: Where are you headed? What's important to you? If he
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: sits there and shrugs and no, no, he said, well, buddy,
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  Speaker 1: that's not an answer, because we're here to have a
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: conversation about how we can support you. But to support you,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: we need to know where you're going, which means that
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: you need to know where you're going. And if he's
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: not willing to do the end of work, then that's
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: that conversation. What are you going to figure it out?
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Because this can't keep going. But what we're really trying
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: to do is just listen. No objections, no our rolls,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: no complaints, just soak it in and then explore more.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Make sure you're on the same page. Ask more questions
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: and then keep exploring. So don't rush this, just keep
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: digging with what I think is the golden question. Eventually
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: he's going to say something, he's going to make a complaint,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: and you can respond to that or better yeah, you
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: can say, all right, I hear you. Is there anything else?
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: The golden question in any exploration is is there anything else?
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Because what you'll often find with kids is they'll doubt
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: your sincerity and then they'll throw something up, as I guess,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: a red herring, just to get the conversation out of
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: the way. And when you can respond to that with
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: concern and say all right, I've got it, don't try
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: to resolve that one right now though, Just jot it
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: down on the piece of paper and say, all right,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: so that's obviously a concern. Is there anything else? How
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: else can we help? Where else do we need to go?
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: What else do we need to address? Is there anything else?
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: When we do that, we make pro way faster because
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: we're showing this is not a superficient conversation. We're here
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: for you now. If he pitture his ideas, as you
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: start to explore and explore some more, and explore some more,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: you're starting to move towards empowerment eventually, and if he
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: pitture his ideas, that aren't going to fly. The object
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: here is to not shut him down right away, just
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: lay out what you can get behind, what you can't
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: and why, and then offer another shot at other options
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: and ideas. What we're trying to do here is to
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: guide towards a future plan that he can feel good
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: about because it's his and we're just there to support
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: him along the way. Now, I do want to say
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: this really clearly, finishing school, from my point of view,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: is a non negotiable. Finishing school is needed, research backs,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: it's importance in life success and if you want to
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: get into a conversation on this topic, here's what he
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: needs to know. If you're a guy, I'm speaking specifically
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: about men here, if you're a guy who's taking on
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: the world with nothing more than a high school certificate,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: you are leaving a lot of money on the table
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: compared to your peers who at the extra model and
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: a bachelor's degree or a master's or a doctorate. There
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: was a report tabled in the Australian Parliament Senate Estimates
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Committee Matthias Sinning who is a researcher at the University
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: of Queensland, showed that if you compare the lifetime earnings
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: of men who obtained a bachelor's degree, you're looking at
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: a solid fifty percent more on your paypacket than those
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: without that degree. Now that's not chump change. Plenty of
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: people without a degree do just fine. Money won't make
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: you happy, researchers have Philoso have been saying that for decades.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: But it does buy a higher quality of life and
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: that get away to Queenstown with the kids, or the
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: special anniversary weekend and a Balinese bungalow on the beach.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: It feels much better. But it's only a light financial
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: stretch rather than a painful financial strain. Anyway, back to
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: the conversation with the young bloke, we also need to
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: talk about pitching in at home and respecting relationships. These
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: basics are what keep the household humming. So I'd be
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: pushing for two more things. First, he needs to commit
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: to either full time work or full time education, and
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: he's got to start chipping in with board. Give him
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: a heads up, give him a few months to adjust,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: and then ramp things up a little bit of events
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: warning around expectations and then straight into it. Learning how
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: to handle finances is all part of drawing up and
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: owning his path. As much as you're in his corner,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: he needs to understand the stakes if he veers off course.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Our goal is to stay clear of punishment, but he
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: needs to know there are consequences if he doesn't stick
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: to the plan that you've hashed out together. So that
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: might mean that he's going to have to couch surf
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: with mates until he pulls his head and shows that
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: he's willing to have a go, But you'll have him
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: back so long as he's willing to play by the rules.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Key thing here, though, is that he needs to know
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: it's not a punishment. You ought to be all about
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: emphasizing that your care, that you're absolutely here for him,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: but for your continued support. It's time for him to
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: grow up. And when I read over this email, it
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: just makes me feel a bit uncomfortable with the way
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: that he seems to have been indulged over the years.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Holidays with friends. Everyone has to go to bed when
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: he does, even though they're five years older than him. Tantrums.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: I'm not keen on sort of going over the past
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: indulgence is I don't think that's liking to delete a
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: towhere productive. But let's focus on the big ticket items
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: of stuff that really matters. If he's still chucking tantrums,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: if he's still making life difficult, you've got a couple
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: of choices. I've outlined one of them. It's the big one.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: You have the conversation, and then you're tough it out
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: until he flies the coup. I don't think that he's
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: going to stick around once he's old enough to spread
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: his wings. He's just not that kid, especially if you
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: give him that gentle nudge when he hits eighteen and
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: he finishes school. And sometimes life's best lessons come the
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: hard way. Option two suggests counseling based on what you've said.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: I don't think he'll be open to it. I know
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't have been when I was his age. But
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: this kid needs to work through some stuff, and maybe
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: he needs somebody else to help him with it. The
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: hardest thing to open is a closed mind. Maybe bringing
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: in a third party can help him to open up
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: his mind a little bit. Option three is you push
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: back and make it clear that there are absolute requirements
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: that he follows or he finds another place to live.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: He's always welcome back if he can play by the rules.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: You love him, But there are five other people in
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: the house that have needs as well. So here's the thing.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Most kids come good towards the end of their adolescent years.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: When you spend time laying out a series of expectations
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: where he is taking the wheel, you're much more likely
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: to get better results. Step in and take over if
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: and when you need to. But he needs to experience
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: some authority in his life, and realistically, he needs to
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: be man enough to hear and understand no. And throughout
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: the process, it's so important that you reassure him of
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: your support and your love. No easy answers on this one.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: He's not going to love what he's been told. That's
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: why his voice in the process is going to matter
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: so much. Maybe I can wrap up with this thought
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: groundbreaking book by Richard Reeves. It's called of Boys and Men.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: In this book, Reeves describes the idea of what he
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: calls surplus value. The short version is this, a boy
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: becomes a man when he provides greater value than he consumes. Now,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: if that's what it means to manner. It's the time
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: that this boy became a man, and that's how he's
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: going to do it. Provide surplus value, Provide greater value
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: than he consumes. He's not there yet. This conversation should
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: be directed towards that end. Hopefully that's a helpful response.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rowland from
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. For more
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: information about making your family happy, please check out happy
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: families dot com dot you and hit us with your
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: questions at the easy to use Happy Families dot com
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: dot Au podcast machine. Just go to the website, click
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: the record button and tell us what's on your mind.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: We'd love to hear it.