Latest / Unscripted Direct / Episode 156 - "Was there more flashing than you expected?"

Transcript

Episode 156 - "Was there more flashing than you expected?" · Unscripted Direct

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_08: Unscripted Direct is brought to you by Walk Up, Melodia, Kelly, and Schoenberger.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_08: Based in San Francisco, but with cases all over the country, Walk Up is one of the most respected plaintiffs' personal injury and wrongful death law firms.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: The attorneys at Walk Up are passionate about trying cases, and some of our cases have come from our listeners.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: If someone reaches out to you with a case, we're happy to see how we can help out.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_08: We thank Walk Up for supporting this podcast, our trial outfit community, and the fifth annual national flash trial competition.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: My goodness, five years.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_08: Welcome to Unscripted Direct.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Spencer Plough from Berkeley Lawn.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_08: I'm Justin Bernstein, UCLA.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_08: This week, we previewed Drexel's Battle of the Experts, interview Ohio Northern's director of trial advocacy, Donnie Anderson, and tackle three mailbag questions.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_08: But first, Spencer, it was great to see you last week.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was fun hanging out.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Good times.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_08: We had a little bit of a lodging issue at first.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: We did.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: We did because I've got all these like fatherly responsibilities.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it was back to school night on Tuesday when you were here and you were going to stay here.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I felt bad because I would not be around here for most of the time.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you'd have to just, you know, find something to do.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_08: Brief timeline, uh, original plan.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_08: Uh I would stay with Spencer.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_08: Uh on my way to the airport, Spencer said, actually, maybe you should get a hotel.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_08: And he was like, I'll pay for it, I'll put you up, no problem.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_08: Uh that way you don't have to worry about back to school night.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_08: And then I reported that because of a sales convention, the hotels were twelve hundred dollars a night.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_08: And Spencer said, Why don't you stay with me?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and you know what?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: You're so flexible.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: I should have done that from the beginning.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think you ended up spending the time, the extra time where at a at a uh public library is where you were working.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, I wanted good Wi-Fi.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_08: In San Francisco coffee shops charge for Wi-Fi.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_08: That doesn't happen here in Los Angeles.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_08: SoCal.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, NorCal, great.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_08: Uh so I went to the public library and it was lovely and uh got my work done.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's that is so Justin of you.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I'm glad that it worked out.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: And sorry I wasn't a better host.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_08: You were a great host.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_08: We went to a delicious dinner.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_08: Uh and it was sort of the opposite of a Spencer meal because I think it was food first, vibe second, right?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_08: Like the vibes are fine, but food was amazing.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh one of the Burma superstar offshoots, B Star, cleverly named.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it is excellent.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: I've always really liked it, but I I always just attributed that to how it felt while I was there.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe that was my stomach talking, you know, or my mouth.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_08: I think so.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_08: Uh and then afterwards, obviously I stay with you guys.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_08: I've got to brag about Spencer for a second because I heard about the Tuesday challenge in the show, but then I actually got to see it.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_08: His garage is basically a Home Depot with a car.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_08: And on the wall are like patches for all the challenges that he and the kids have completed.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_08: Like each one like with a uh a drawing of what the challenge is about, the name of the challenge, the date.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, when they're in other countries, they're different colors.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_08: Uh so we've got like international Tuesday challenges.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_08: Uh like I think one of them is like the Marte's challenge.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I love.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: I love doing it.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, yeah.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you got to see it.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_08: For our our our uh less lingual uh listeners, that's Tuesday.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_08: Marte's is Tuesday.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh Marte's right.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, yeah.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: You weren't talking to me.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um you missed the Tuesday challenge.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we had to push it back till Wednesday, a rare exception.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: You missed it, but it was fun.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: We're making uh towers out of toothpicks and seeing what their specific strength was.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: That is how much their mass was versus how much mass they could hold before collapsing.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Very interesting.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_06: I love it.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, good to add.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: What a good dad.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's very sweet of you.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what happened to those little toothpick structures when we put the weight on them?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_06: I do.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_06: Oh.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do the break.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh this week, oh, let's see.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: We had, oh yes, flash trials.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was quite familiar with it.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Getting to hang out at jams over the weekend here in San Francisco.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Let's dole out some awards, or at least announce they had been previously doled out.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Professionalism was won by UCLA.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Our semifinalist were Chapman, new to the competition in South Carolina.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Finalist was Drexel and winner, UCLA.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, they get both professionalism and the first place trophy.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was well deserved, and it was a lot of fun having everybody here.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Congratulations, Justin, and to your fantastic team.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_08: Thank you for hosting us.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_08: I've gotten to talk to students after competitions, and of course, my students were exuberant about the result, but I've never heard students gush about how much they learned and how it was transformative the way my students did for this.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_08: I think the flash trials uh i is is unique and unparalleled in the kind of uh training it requires because they just have to be ready for anything.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_08: Um and I'm really excited for what this means for the rest of the year.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_08: So thank you for hosting this.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I always admire the folks who do four flash trials in two days or six in two days in three days.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, this is crazy.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I I you know I I've not done that many in such a condensed time myself, but I suspect if I did, I would improve my skills.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: All right, we finish talking about one tournament and we turn to another.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Indeed, it's time for Battle, Battle of the Experts, where Justin, you wanted to preview this tournament uh in a somewhat unique way, I think.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_08: So the tournament is hosted by Drexel and their director, Phil Pascarello.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_08: We thought, what if we don't invite Phil to the preview?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_08: What could go wrong?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_08: What could go right?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_08: Who knows?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_08: Have a listen.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_08: We welcome back to the show three of my favorite people in the community.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_08: Brett Bain from South Carolina.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_08: Brett, welcome back.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_05: I got I got to go first.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_08: Awesome.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_08: Thank you.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_08: Kate Donahue from Stetson.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_08: Hi.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_08: And Cornerstone Award winner, Robert Little from Baylor.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I got to go last.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know what that says, but nice to be back.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_04: It says you're the cornerstone.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_08: Exactly.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_08: We thought it'd be fun to preview Drexel's Battle of the Experts without their director, Phil Pascarello.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, why were you guys so uh willing to participate, not just with Phil, but without him?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, the without him part is the critical part.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_04: I would not have come if I had to talk to Phil about this.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_04: So the any opportunity to talk bad about Phil or about Phil, period, behind his back is really what I sport.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: I go to battle to see Jess, and I'm so excited to see to see Jess.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it's okay that Phil's not here.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_05: And I go to battle for the Tom Klein statue.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_05: So uh Brett, you're still in San Francisco, I think, right?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_05: I am, yeah.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_05: You can see it behind me actually.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that is my view this morning.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_05: That is a beautiful view of the Golden Gate.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_05: Uh it looks like you're outside, actually.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I'm camping in the in the woods above the Golden Gate Bridge this morning.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_05: Uh but no, I am still in San Francisco.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_05: It's uh uh foggy.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_08: Congrats on congrats on making the break at Flash Trials.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_08: Our team spaced a couple times, and I heard your students were excellent.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_05: Uh yours were as well.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_05: Congrats on winning Flash Trials as well as most professional team.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_08: Well, we it doesn't really count because Cumberland wasn't there.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_05: Well, it's still it's so I think it's it's a reflection on how wonderful your students were to all the other students that were there, and they truly were.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_08: Thank you.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_08: Uh you traveled with your team, Brett.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_05: How many tournaments do you travel to a year?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_05: Um, that's a good question.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_05: I'm traveling to five this fall and probably four or five in the spring.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_05: So Ted?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_05: Uh I think that might be the most in the community.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_05: Robert looks disgusted with that figure.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_05: Like his heart, his heart is in pain.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_05: Give him another year or two with Nova and he'll start traveling more.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_04: There's no scenario under which I go to 10 tournaments.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, so that's that's an insane number.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_04: I'm I'm in I'm awestruck by you.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_08: Brett, is your position is your position that people travel more when they have children?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_05: Because I don't think that's true for others.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_05: For the first bit, and then it has to fall off after that.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_05: Then you start doing uh dance and cheerleading and competitive cheerleading and all the school events, and then then you have to you cut it down.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_05: Um, this is a dumb question uh that that reveals my ignorance.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_08: What is the difference between cheerleading and competitive cheerleading?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_05: Well, that's a great question.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_05: My 11-year-old informed me of the difference the other day.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, cheerleading is done through the school, where uh anyone can sign up and try to participate.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_05: Competitive cheerleading is where they suck you dry of all of your income and make you travel to all kinds of places uh regionally and nationally to compete for two and a half minutes.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_05: So that that's the difference between the two.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_04: Which one cheerleading is the stuff they make the documentaries about where you looks crazy?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_05: Which one has points?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_05: I want to do that one.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_05: That's the that's the competitive cheerleading, and you're trying to get uh interestingly, you're trying to get zero.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_05: You want to hit zero, is what they call it, apparently.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_05: So I that might not go well for you.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's like golf or endeavor, Justin.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_05: It's like golf, you want a low score?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_05: You will well, you want a high score on your on your uh skill sets, but you want to get zero on the errors, and so that's an actual additional score.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_05: So you're trying to get the lowest error score and the highest uh uh team score.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_05: And yeah, it's like gymnastics in the Olympics, where it's like they have a starting score and then you you know go up and down based on how well you do it.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I don't follow it, I don't know it fully, but I just keep getting told they do fine.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_07: So okay.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_05: All right, back to battle the experts.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_07: Uh Kate, uh speaking of people who coach a lot of teams, how is your fall going?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh busy.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: I've got four this fall, although I did not travel out to first chair, but I will go up to Philadelphia.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, so I'm feeling Brett in the in the busyness, although um he will be traveling more than me.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: But every everything is good, just just busy.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: So what else is new?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_08: Well, the last time you were on the show, it was after you became a tenure-line professor at Stetson, and you'd vowed that you were gonna cut back on the number of teams you coached so you could handle your new teaching and writing responsibilities.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_08: So when you say you're coaching four teams this fall, is that a reduction or is that is that you just breaking your vow and coaching as much as you were before?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I did six last fall.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: So technically it's a reduction.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, although I it's a lot.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think I've a bit mouth a little bit more than I can do right now.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: But I luckily um have a very, very wonderful and supportive husband who is very patient with me while I'm I'm not home many nights during the week and on the weekends.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, so you know it's busy.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: We'll just kind of see how it develops.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm lucky you've got a really, really great team here.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_08: So I thought I thought you were gonna say you you're really lucky to have a a patient, Liz Bowles, who is willing to let you only coach four teams or a slack her.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: I know we had a discussion about mom, my slacking off and my um failure to work hard, um, and how I'm really just throwing in the towel.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so she's really trying to inspire me to keep going.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, well, uh we should keep countering the season.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_08: Maybe, you know, I'm not one to promote gambling, but you know, maybe we can gamble on does Brett travel to more tournaments or Kate coach more tournaments?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_08: That's a good question.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good question.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: Although Brett's a hero, so I don't know.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'd probably put that money, put that money on Brett.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_05: We gotta get Liz to go to more tournaments.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_05: That's what we need.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_08: Well, Kate, one of the teams uh you've already coached as a first year.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_08: I had the pleasure of watching your student, Gabriel Louf.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_08: Am I saying his last name right?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_08: He was really good and really well trained.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: He is absolutely wonderful.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: He's just awesome.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, really great, really great guy.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: He's a three L for us this year.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, yeah, I'm I'm coaching him on our Kelly squad um as well.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm looking forward to getting to do that again.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: He's just awesome.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: A pleasure to coach.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_08: Robert, how are you doing?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_04: I'm doing fantastic.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like a I feel like a loser over here, only coaching two teams this fall.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_04: So apparently I'm slacking massively.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_08: Uh you you were joined by a very special guest uh for unscripted direct.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_08: Her first time on the show.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_08: Can we get a camera pan in her direction?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_04: We can indeed.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_04: Little Nova sit over here watching Sesame Street while I do the Zoom call.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, she's very intrigued by Battle of the Experts, so she's very excited.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_04: But she is a little almost uh five months old.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_04: So she'll be five months old uh at Friday.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_08: So I believe I saw an animal hanging over her.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_08: What animal is that?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_04: There are several right now, but there's a giraffe and an elephant, and then some kind of little rattle star thing as well.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_04: So we've got multiple things.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_04: She pulled the monkey off, so yeah.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_08: I I only saw elephant, and we're going with elephant.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_04: There you go.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_04: Works for me.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, how's she doing?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_04: She's doing great, she's fantastic.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_04: So she was um born very premature, so she was in the NICU for a while, but she handled that great.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_04: And since she's come home, she's doing fantastic and all the little baby stuff, and trying to she's rolling over from her stomach and trying to roll over from back, and she's real loud now.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_04: So she was all loud this morning.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_04: So hopefully she'll uh interrupt us at some point and make some noise.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_04: But she's doing fantastic, so we're all very, very happy.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_04: Mom's great, and everything's worked out really, really well.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_08: Early signs, opener or closer?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um, based on the amount of volume, I'm gonna go with closer.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_04: But it's you know, um either way works for me.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_08: Now, how have you been able to balance fatherhood and in your work at Baylor?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_04: Incredibly poorly.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but uh the funny thing about it is so her mother went back to work.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_04: Mother's a nurse in an oncology clinic.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_04: Her mother went back to work after eight weeks off in the summer, and of course after Top Gun.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I did not go to Scotland this summer, so I was home for a lot of that as well and trying to get work done.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_04: But since her mother's gone out to work, you know, fortunately these jobs are a blessing.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I've been able to stay home a fair amount with her.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we're gonna, and so I've been with her a lot, which is fantastic and it's really great.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_04: My parents have been here a lot.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so they've come down and watched her some so that I can, when I need to be at class and go watch exercises and stuff like that.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_04: And then frankly, it's just, you know, the same thing.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_04: Every night, mom comes home at 5:30 and I leave and go to the law school and coach, and then I come home at, you know, nine or 10 o'clock at night, and we do it again the next day.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_04: So it's just the joys of adulthood, but I wouldn't have or parenthood, but I wouldn't have any other way.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_04: So very worth it.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_04: But also, I'm very tired.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_04: So uh I'm excited about going to Philadelphia because I may go to bed at nine o'clock at night and wake up uh just in time for the first round the following morning.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_08: How many tournaments are you?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_08: You said you're coaching to, I assume it's battle and and tournament champions.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_08: Um, how many are you traveling to?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna travel to both of those.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_04: So her mother's very generous and has allowed me to travel.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think she's happy about it.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, and she keeps saying things to me like, when are you leaving?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_04: Um, with this tone of voice that indicates I should not go someplace.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_04: But uh she's been very generous, and uh, my parents will be here for both of those weekends.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_04: And so I'm very lucky to get to go to both.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_04: But um, frankly, you know, uh part of it is just uh who's hosting them and where they are.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_04: It just kind of didn't want to pass up the opportunity to go.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_04: And and uh I like going so, but just two.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_04: I'm lazy, apparently.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_04: I gotta do way more, is what I'm learning on this on the Zoom call.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_08: I think you're just with two overachievers and Brett and Kate.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_08: Uh let's talk about Battle of the Experts without Phil.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_08: Uh Robert and Brett, what do you think makes Phil so bad at fantasy football?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_08: Because this is a person who listens to fantasy football podcasts, prepares for the draft for days, leads the league in transactions, leads the league in horrific and unfair uh trade offers, and yet has never made the playoffs.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_08: How do you explain his failure?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I would say overactivity is probably the most, I mean, like he's neurotic and crazy and therefore sits around and thinks about it all day long while most of us are just making jokes about it in the uh in the group chat.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um so I think if you think about too much, especially in a league with 14 teams, if you're you're making that many moves, who are you picking up?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_04: There's there's nobody worth putting on the team.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_04: So I would say that.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_04: I also think, frankly, let's not kid ourselves.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we've all seen Phil pick NTC teams.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um not sure he's good at drafting, is just the evidence that I've seen.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_04: It's just it's just you can prepare and prepare and prepare and study, and it doesn't work in any scenario for him.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_04: So I mean, maybe you know, the source of the problem may just be Phil.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_05: No, I agree.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_05: I think he uh he chases players, right?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_05: Like he he doesn't get them before they do things well.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_05: He tries to get them after they do things well, but you know, the players that are that are left on the waivers, uh, you know, they're they're there for a reason.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_05: So they have one good week and he's like, I'm gonna drop somebody for them, and then they just you know crap the bed.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_05: And the people he dropped, you know, AJ picks up, and then AJ, they do well for AJ because they would have done well for Phil.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_05: Phil's not a good, you know, buy and hold investor, right?
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_05: He's he's he's day trading on Robinhood, it's not working out well for him.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_05: Um, he was early, he he was he was late to GameStop, is really the way you describe Phil.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_05: Um he also, you know, his trades.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_05: Have you seen that new Elizabeth Holmes trailer where it's like, why would I deceive you?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, that's his trades.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_05: He's just looking you in the eye like I wouldn't deceive you.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_05: Here are two nickels and a rusty trash can for Lamar Jackson.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_05: And you're for a second, you're like, hey, it's convincing, but then you remember it's Phil and you're like, no, I'm not gonna do that.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_05: And uh I think that's why he finishes like six and eight every year.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_05: Uh no, he he had that one year at seven and seven.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_05: Let's give him credit.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_08: Uh Kate, you are a very successful coach.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_08: You've helped a lot of students improve.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_08: Can you look into the camera and and give Phil some coaching?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_08: Um, what would you say to him to help him get better at fantasy football?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so because I'm not in the league, um, I would actually be way worse than Phil.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: So like I'm at the bottom of the barrel, but my advice to Phil, having just heard this information, would be have patience, my friend, patience.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I'm gonna give him the opposite advice of what I normally do.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh normally I really tell students to really be themselves, lean into their authentic selves, don't try to be something you're not.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Phil, I'm gonna go with the opposite for you here.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: And my advice would be just do whatever Brett and Robert are doing, and Justin or really anyone else, maybe take that approach and then see how that goes.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_05: I mean I pulled it up.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_05: We are a week and a half into this league, and he has twice as many transactions as anybody else in the league.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_05: He's usually like three or four times by the end of the year.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_05: Like this is yeah, no, I know it's gonna be still like less active.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, he has already done eight transactions, and we're only in week two.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_08: No, when I asked you all to join this preview and I said, Hey, we're gonna do it without Phil, I noticed nobody said, Why would we do it without Phil?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_08: You're just like, I'm in.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_08: And Robert said, I'm in.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_08: Uh also, uh, will this preview mostly be about which sandwich place is better?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_08: Yours, maybe mine, or his.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_08: Uh Robert, can you give us the backstory on the sandwich competition?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_04: So I think it was three years ago.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_04: We were sitting at battle and nobody was watching the well, nobody was, I mean, everybody was outside their rounds.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_04: So nobody's watching the round.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_04: And we had a conversation about how I think it was Justin's idea that we should order Italian subs for lunch.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_04: Not, you know, there was gonna be pizza provided for the students, but let's not eat that.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_04: Let's order Italian subs.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_04: So Justin has this idea.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_04: We start to talk about it.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_04: Justin picks a place he likes in Philadelphia, says we're gonna order subs from this place.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_04: He orders the subs, and then I guess they hoagies, whatever they're called, and I'm from Texas.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_04: And then Phil comes down, finds out we're doing this, finds out Justin has ordered the sandwiches, and immediately declares, that place sucks.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna order better sandwiches.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_04: And therefore, he now makes an order of like six more sandwiches.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_04: By the time we're done, I believe we had like 14 sandwiches sitting on the table between like seven people.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_07: In addition to all the food that Drexel was ordering for lunch.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, they had pizza and all kinds of food.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, and I think we're pretty sure we ordered like mozzarella sticks from one of the places and some other things.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_04: Bottom line was an absurd amount of food uh was delivered, all of it very good.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, some better than others, but all of it very good.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so since then, every year on the uh the last couple years on the Saturday of battle, we all order Italian sandwiches and sit around and eat them during the fourth round while our kids are duking it out in their various rooms.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_04: So uh it's one of my favorite parts about the tournament, frankly, um, is is that experience.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_04: So that's why I wouldn't miss it.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_05: I I think the problem was though, you know, Justin ordered from a really good Italian sandwich shop.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_05: And Phil said Jersey Mike's is right down the street.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_05: And he ordered like four Italian BMTs from Jersey Mike's because that's what he thought was like the the sandwich.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_05: And it wasn't.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_05: He was it was just their lettuce just in very good.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_04: I thought he was ordering from like I thought he was just gonna order a couple chicken parms from Buka and then put them on some white bread.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_04: Right, that would make better.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_04: This is the height of Italian culture is this these chicken parms from Buca.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe they're sure we can get a cold cut combo from Subway from him.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_08: You guys are being unfair because unlike fantasy football, with the sandwiches, at least he kept it close.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_08: That's fair.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_08: You know, speaking of Phil, I'm not looking to make fun of him, but it did come up this morning um in our in our uh in our chat.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_08: Uh Kate found out for the first time that Phil is a Disney adult.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_08: Kate, uh, do you want to revise any of your opinions about Phil now that you know that?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, jury's still out.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: I I I feel like I need to have asked some follow-up questions of him when I'm up in Philly.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_07: Um you you can just ask right now.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_07: Brett and Robert can answer.
• 20:56
  unknown: Robert.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: All right, that's fair.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um my initial questions were how many times a year does he go?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: I believe I was informed to four to five.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um suggest their and and their daughter may or may not be attending.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm unclear on that.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then I was curious, like, what is it?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: The Magic Kingdom, is it like Epcot?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: I hear it's Ebcot with perhaps a focus on um the Italian, the the you know, the Italian exhibit.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, all good, all good.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um I have lived in Florida for week, uh going on eight years now.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I have yet to I've gone to Disney one time with my nieces.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_08: So I would say that would you say you're a Floridian now?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: I would say I'm a Floridian now, yes.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I've only been to Disney once with my nieces.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think Phil is yet again beating me in uh Phil has actually been I didn't expect.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_08: Phil has been there twice with your nieces.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: Now I have a lot more questions.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_08: Uh Brett, anything that that Kate needs to know about it?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I would say Kate doesn't make does it make more sense now why most of Phil's been Battle packets are about kids dying.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my god.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it it does.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: He has had an inordinate amount of child deaths in his life.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of kids.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_05: A lot of women.
• 22:14
  unknown: Yeah.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: The look on Robert's face right now.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_07: I thought you were going to say that's why you had a case about a roller coaster.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_07: I didn't know we were uh going to child death.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_07: Oh man's the real battle.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_07: All right.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_08: We should probably say something nice about Phil and his outstanding competition.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_08: Uh so I'll ask each of you what makes battle such a phenomenal competition?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_08: Kate?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'll go with my my classic three things, and yes, I'm holding up the three fingers for the audience.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: You did it really.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_08: No, it was really good.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: It was great.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_08: Because you you asked if the elbow is high enough, and in person it wouldn't have been, but in on Zoom, you're seated.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_08: And so you actually had right, because when we do training, we do the three-finger training on Zoom and three-finger training in person.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_08: You you nailed it.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: So the three things that I really love about Battle is um, first of all, just getting to see all of you.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think the camaraderie amongst the the coaches and the directors who are there is very unique and it's really awesome.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, two is um I think that the packets are always really well well written and balanced, and I enjoy prepping them.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: And that's thanks to Phil and all the time and effort he puts into it.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then my third reason, and I'm sorry, Justin, it's not alliterative, but my third fact um is going to be that um I think their woodshed witnesses are always so prepared and really professional.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I really like that about the competition.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that's those are my three Robert.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_04: So the first time I came was three years ago.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I actually lost to Phil in the NTC Picks contest, and part of the deal was I had to come to battle in person if I lost.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_04: And at the time, I guess it was a punishment.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you you guys, the listeners may not believe I lost to him.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_04: That's hard to fathom given how it's gone.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_04: But uh, and I went and what I discovered is it's probably one of my favorite, if not my favorite tournaments to go to in the year.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, Philadelphia is fantastic.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_04: It's just such a fun where the school is and where the hotel is.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_04: You can walk around that area of Philadelphia.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_04: It's very walkable, it's very safe.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um, there's lots of good food for the kids, like different kinds of stuff for us from Texas, especially, like different kinds of food that we don't get a lot of down here.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I love that part of it, Philadelphia.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_04: Second, uh, I just think it's a really good, hard competition.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_04: People bring really good teams.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of the students there are going to go to TOC or NCTC later on.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of them may have already been at first chair.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_04: Like, so you've got some kids here who are really talented, um, really good teams that you might see in the spring as well.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_04: And so I think if you've got a good group of students who need reps against good competitors, it's really good for that.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's a really unique feature.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_04: I it's so small, you know, it's a smaller tournament, and I think that's really good in terms of the competition.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then I'll agree with Kate, I'll echo what she said.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_04: I just find it to be all the coaches who attend, I think are fun to hang out with.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it's a not a huge group.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_04: You can be in that building in Andrex campus, it's a beautiful building they have with all the courtrooms in it and where they host it on their own campus.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_04: And it's just a really laid-back, you know, it's a very competitive tournament, but as coaches, I think it's one of those opportunities where we all can all sit around and talk, uh, especially early in the year, about what's going on and what's going to happen and where we're headed.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_04: And so I I think the camaraderie is was one of the best parts about it.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_04: I hate to say too many nice things about Phil, um, but it is an incredibly well-run tournament uh with a great packet and all those things.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_04: The students are prepared, and Phil does a really good job running around like a crazy person.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_04: But honestly, it's for my money, it's been one of my favorite things to coach the last three years.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_04: And I started coaching it and haven't given it up for reasons.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_04: So I have nothing but positive things to say about it.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_04: It is easily one of the best competitions in the country.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_05: Brett?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_05: Well, Kate and Robert took most of the things I I would have said, but I'll sort of add on to that, which is in keeping it smaller, what Phil has done, which is very hard to do in running a tournament, is to keep a set of teams where uh when you get there, every team has a chance to win it.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_05: Um it is in the sense of competitiveness.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_05: There is not an off-round, there is not a, oh, you know, that you go to some terms like, well, we should win that one, we we could win that one.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_05: I think a battle, you you know, whatever the draw is going to be, what tomorrow night, Wednesday night, whenever they draw the teams is going, it doesn't really matter because every team you face is gonna beat you or have a good chance of beating you.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_05: And so it it is a level of competition that's hard to replicate in other places unless you get to like you know the break at NTC Nationals.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_05: Like it feels like that kind of tournament.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and that's hard.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_05: He he's fostered that, he's built that, and he is that has become what this comp is.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_05: And I think it's um it's a great testament to how he built it and how he runs it.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, I I'm struck by the fact that there's it manages to balance camaraderie and uh competitiveness.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_08: But I was as I was thinking about this in preparation for our conversation, I was making a list of things I thought stood out, and I was like shocked by how many were on there.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, in addition to all the things you guys said, it runs on time.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_08: Like that is so rare.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, those rounds start when they are scheduled to start.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, there are three judges every round.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_08: There's usually more in the playoffs, there's usually seven in the semis and nine in the finals.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_08: There's food at every opportunity, right?
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_08: The the the welcome, the uh breakfast, lunch, the parties, all of it.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_08: Um every uh room has the whiteboards, the flip charts, the markers.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_08: He does blow-ups and enlargements for every team, like it's NTC Nationals, live streams the playoffs.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, it it's really, really well done.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, you guys mentioned the case.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_08: Kate, you want to tell everybody what this year's case is about?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: Uh this year's case is about um, so it's a car accident.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um a young girl, eight-year-old girl was led off a school bus at um her stop, you know, no crosswalk, dark, rainy, and the the driver lets her off, and there's a car approaching, and she ends up getting struck by that car.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so it's a negligence claim against the bus company, uh, client transportation.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um and uh there are two potential uh affirmative defenses that can be raised, one against the other driver for comparative negligence, and the other against the child for you know running out into the street and not looking to back toward the bus driver, you know, and what she was supposed to do um getting off the bus.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: So um, and those are, you know, what's nice too about it is like the defense can elect some none or all.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and what's nice about it is that you don't you have to plan and you have to adjust to what the other side is doing, uh, which I really enjoy.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um that you know, that kind of realistic component to it um, I think is great.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: So that is uh that's a summary of the cases here.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_08: And what's your theme on the plaintiff?
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: You'll just have to wait and see, my friend.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_08: All right.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_08: All right, we'll we'll do a little bit of gambling.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_08: Uh so first question I'll ask each of you what percentage of ballots will the plaintiff win in the prelims?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_08: Brett?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_08: I know you've never gambled on anything.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I don't, I mean, I don't like to gamble on people's lives.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_05: Um I think it's going percentage of ballots plaintiff wins is going to be 56.5%.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_08: Wow.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_08: Uh Kate busting open her uh her copy of Breaking Vegas 2 by Robert Little.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, hold on, let me slip to Page.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: Is this actually a signed copy here?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to say it's signed by Robert.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's near and dear to my heart.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: I keep it in my office, and whenever I have to reference this type of thing, I break it open.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: Lots of good material here.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um nobody's ever seen Breaking Vegas one.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_04: Like, can you imagine the kind of weird stuff in that one?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_04: You have to be worthy to read the text.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_08: Um gate prediction, plain F percentage in the prelims.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna go, it's it's always so even.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going 5149.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, every time it's it's so tight.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: Phil writes a really good packet.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I'm going, it's gonna be as close as it can possibly be.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_04: Robert?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I think it's I think it's a really good case.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_04: I do think it's balanced, but I'll take I'm gonna middle them.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna go 53.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_04: So I'll say 53% for the planner.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_05: I should have clarified.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_05: Are we doing prices right rules?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_05: Uh no.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, because then Robert should have gotten one, if so.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_08: Uh I I will do prices right in the move.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_08: I'll try, I'll try to to to the corner of the market.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_08: I'll say 50-50, meaning if the defense wins, I get the win.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_08: All right.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_08: One one more gambling question.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, we heard that teams can elect which affirmative defenses to run.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_08: What is the the line, the gambling line over under for how many teams will blame Caroline, the little girl, when they're on defense?
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_08: I'll say one.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_08: One team will do it.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_08: Okay, so Baylor is doing it.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_04: We're not doing it.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, then two.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_04: I did spend a fairly significant amount of time um thinking about theme ideas for the Blame Caroline defense.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm not gonna say any of them out loud, but I did have several um for how you blame an eight-year-old girl for her own death.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_04: But I have to hold on.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_07: What you mean is you're not gonna say any of them out loud today.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_04: We may be saying them Friday.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_07: Well, you've already told some of them to me.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_04: I have said them.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_04: I just I'm not gonna say them here.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um I will say I had this thought though that I am continually when things like this happen, you go to my trial term, you think no one will do this.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_04: At least one person will do it.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm excited for that and want to see that.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_04: Uh personally, if I find out it's happening, I may go watch that round because I am intrigued to see how that sounds.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_04: But I think one.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_04: Kate.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna second that.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thinking I'm thinking one.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be low, real low.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going with one.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: If I have to pick another number, I'll go two, but or one and a half, right?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: If can we do actual lines?
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_05: So you don't push on two.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_05: I get it.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_05: What's a push?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_05: No one knows.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I think one uh I think one will go full on at it.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_05: I think there will be three or four that soft pedal the we're not saying she's at fault, but but but she goes.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_05: You can assign fault to her if you want.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_05: I think I think there'll be like three or four that do that.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, the real question is, and this is not to get more good, the real question is will anybody go with she didn't just walk out in the street, she saw that car coming.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_04: And she had like, you know, that kind of thing.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm saying that hard no, Robert.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_04: Like just get real dark with it, you know?
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_04: Really embrace Phil's child death theme and just go for it.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_05: She had a tough week at Disney.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_08: Oh my god.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_08: I thought that the arguments were gonna be, well, she shouldn't have, you know, had a dark umbrella on a dark night, but you guys are uh taking it to another level here.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_08: I will go with zero.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_08: I'll I'll bet zero.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_04: You're you're all coaching.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_04: So how much time have y'all spent uh with your own umbrella and jacket combo at the at at your in your practices trying to plan out how you're gonna use the the exhibits?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_04: Brett, zero.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_04: Kate?
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: Pretty much zero.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: I will admit that I brought in one of my like zip up black like hoodie sweatshirts to see initially like if we were going to use it, never did and never got to the umbrella either.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll see.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_08: Most of our practices are just choreography.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_08: So those those items feature pretty prominently.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_08: You're just taking tips from singing in the rain.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: I was thinking Mary Poppins, but yeah, either one works.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_08: When you see my my opener spin the umbrella, uh, I want you to know that took a lot of work.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_08: Like she wasn't a natural at it.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_08: We had to we had to really work at it.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm a little superstitious, and it's bad luck to open an umbrella inside.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I was really wary about you know practicing with it.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_08: Uh that's a good point.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_08: I had not I had not contemplated that.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you'll be fine, Justin.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_08: All right.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_08: Last question for each of you.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_08: Can each of you give me a mailbag question that I can ask to Spencer later this episode?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_08: Kate?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, my mailbag question is who wins in an arm wrestling match?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_08: You or Spencer?
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_08: I'm writing this down.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_08: Who wins?
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_08: I mean the answer is Spencer.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_07: Uh, who wins an arm wrestling match?
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_07: Great.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_07: You got leverage.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_07: Robert?
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I really failed at coming up with one of these, but I did think about this one.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_04: So let's assume for a moment that you and Spencer are a mock trial team and you have to compete against two other coaches.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_04: Who what two coaches would you pick to go against in one mock trial round?
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_04: You can use any problem you want.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_04: And why?
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_04: Is it for fun?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_04: Is it because you think you could beat them?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_04: Is it because you just would be entertained?
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what is the reasoning?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_04: But which two coaches would you most want to go against if you were a team?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_05: I love that.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_05: I think you have to make them also answer who do they think they would beat.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_04: I you're you're more than happy to just say we want these two because we think we would crush them.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_04: But that's a bold move when you have a podcast for the community, you know.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_04: But go ahead.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_07: Okay.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, I'm gonna spend all of the time between now and when we record thinking about that question and how I cannot offend people.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_05: Brett?
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_05: I have two, one for Spencer and one for Battle.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_05: So for Spencer, uh flash trials, was there as much flashing as you expected when you started it, or was there more or less?
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, great.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_07: Was there as much flashing as you expected?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_07: Okay, great.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_05: Who would win in a fight?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_05: 100 fill-sized Tom Klein statues or one Tom Klein statue-sized fill.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, 100 fill-sized Tom Klein Tom Klein statues or one Tom Klein statue-sized Phil.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_04: I think for reference, you need to define for the people like number one, how tall is Phil?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_04: And number two, the absolute gigantic size of the Tom Klein statue.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_04: Because I think Tom Klein in that statue is like rocking 10 feet tall.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_05: It it's it's at least I think it's probably 15 feet.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_05: And I'll let you gauge Phil's height publicly on the record during the mailbag session.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_08: Well, all I know is that when I was getting a tour of the building uh as it was being built, it was part of my job interview.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_08: I was lucky enough to have a a uh tour given by Tom Klein.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_08: And the statue wasn't yet there, and he said to me, This is where the statue's gonna go.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_08: It's gonna be seven feet tall, life size.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_04: See, I my favorite part of the statue is still that it's the backside of him faces the door.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_04: So you walk in, and the first thing you see is Tom Klein's backside.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_04: And the thing about that is you have to be real proud of your backside to put negative welcome to the Drexel Law School.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_04: So I've always found that to be the most impressive part.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_07: Uh I'm not gonna make a joke I want to make.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_07: Uh try to keep my job.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_07: Thank you guys for joining.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_08: I can't wait to see you all in a few days.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Describe.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: See you soon.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: See you soon.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_04: Bye everybody.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_04: Bye, Nova.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_04: Say bye, Nova.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_04: She's asleep now.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_04: We put her to sleep.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_04: Uh we'll do that.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_04: Well done, guys.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_05: That's what I think.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_05: Watch yourself.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: You've got some editing to do, my friend.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: Dustin, you weren't done just there.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: You had others you wanted to talk to this week.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, you spoke with Donnie Anderson of Ohio Northern, their director for Alex.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, we've wanted to have Donnie on for a long time.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, he's an excellent coach, great guy.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, and I learned recently an excellent judge as well.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, he was named best judge at first chair.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_08: Uh my students had him as a judge, and they thought his comments were really supportive and helpful.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_08: So I was excited to interview Donnie Anderson.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_08: Welcome to Unscripted Direct.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_08: Please introduce yourself to the jury.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_03: Donnie Anderson.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_08: Now I I noticed you introduced yourself as Donnie.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_08: I've always heard you refer to as Donnie.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_08: Your given name is Donald.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_08: For how long have you gone by Donnie?
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, as soon as I was old enough to realize my father and I had the same name, and I knew it was important.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I had to go by Donnie, and he went by Andy for whatever reason.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_08: Andy?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_03: Andy.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's Anderson.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and I think he had a partner whose name was also Don.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_03: So they had to come up with some sort of distinguishing name, and he went by Andy.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_03: So I know people have known my father as an attorney for a long time, if I hear them call him Andy.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_08: What do you do for a living?
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: I'm currently the trial advocacy director at Ohio Northern University.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_08: Let's start from the beginning.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_08: Donnie, where'd you grow up?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_03: Uh born and raised in St.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_03: Petersburg, Florida, and uh went to Stetson College of Law.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: I went to grade school and uh high school all all my years at uh in St.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: Petersburg.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_08: What did your parents do?
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh father's an attorney.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_03: I practiced with him for many years, and he just retired about two months ago and uh is now kind of hanging out in St.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_03: Petersburg doing the retirement thing at almost 90 years old.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_03: He'll be in September.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_08: That's so cool.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_08: Uh what kind of law did he do while you were growing up?
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: Disability, uh injury law, workers' compensation, social security, disability, uh retirement income, a lot of disability type work, uh mostly uh from the plaintiff's end.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_03: And uh and then my practice, I did most of the personal injury, but I also did criminal defense as well.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_03: And your mom?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_03: Uh she worked with him.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: She she passed about 30 years ago.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: And uh she was a she was the manager of the firm, ran of all our rental properties, and uh she was a law librarian, actually.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_08: So, how much of what you saw from your parents influenced your decision to eventually go to law school and become a lawyer doing similar kind of work?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: Well, if you ask a kid, do they want to be like their dad?
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_03: When they're a kid, they say no, usually to some degree.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I I I didn't know necessarily I wanted to be an attorney.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_03: I think I kind of fell into it.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_03: I wasn't really ready to make a decision when I decided to go to law school.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_03: It was kind of one of those, eh, well, family's done it.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's in the family.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_03: I can't go too far if I do this.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: But uh I started out after I graduated undergrad at University of Tampa, I went to graduate school in South Carolina to get my master's in mental health counseling.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_03: Uh brief foray into that and realized that was not where I wanted to go and decided that I was gonna follow the path and and uh that my father did and became an attorney.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_03: So uh went to Stetson, where he went.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: I graduated to 25 years to the day after my father graduated.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: And my father was, I didn't know it at the time, but he gave me, he awarded me my diploma when I was uh when I was in law school from there.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's so cool.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was nice.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_03: It was uh I didn't know, and uh they line you up alphabetically.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_03: My name is Anderson, so I was up to the front.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_03: I looked out and saw that my family was there for graduation, but my father was not.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_03: I was upset.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_03: And uh once I looked up and saw that he was giving me my my my diploma, it made it a lot easier.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_03: I thought that perhaps he'd missed it or something was wrong, but uh my father did give me my diploma.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_03: It was nice.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_08: That's very cool.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_08: Uh did you do trial team in law school?
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yes, I did.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um I tried out my first year there and did not make the team.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um I thought I was I was wronged, horribly wronged for not being selected.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and I found out that I was horribly full of myself, which was probably why I I didn't make it.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_03: Second time I was chosen as a witness and then earned my way onto the team after that.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_03: So uh it worked out that way for me.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_08: How much do you now use that story of failure turned to success when working with your own students?
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: My students will say way too much because I tell that story a lot.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but everybody starts at a different place, I think, when you're starting this journey.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: And uh we always talk about meeting students where they're at, and where I was at at that time was not at a maturity level to handle the types of things that we require of law students who do this.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I needed some time to mature.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I I I took that time.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: And fortunately, I listened to some people who were important to me uh to take it seriously, and I did.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_03: So and that's how you know that's how how it works.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I tell that story a lot to students, and uh many of them it it works for.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: They realize that they've they've got a lot of put a lot of effort into this, and that's why we've been successful, at least.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_08: Do you think it informs the way you coach?
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_08: Uh the fact that you didn't start out as a superstar.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_08: You didn't start out as immediately the the hand-picked uh golden boy of the team.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_08: You had to work your way toward toward being really good.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, I I thought I was I you know I thought I was God's gift of advocacy.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_03: I thought everybody needed to hear from me at first.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_03: And when I realized that wasn't the case and that it was a team sport, uh I now when I watch students try out, um, I'm looking for different things.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's not necessarily whether they're just they're they're you you gauge, you tend to look for things that indicate that are indicative of maturity in the tryout process a little bit more rather than just performance.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_03: Because I find that just a performance can be faked and a performance in and of itself can just be prepared and and practiced to the point where it looks flawless.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_03: But uh I do try and find out what level where they at, where where are they at in terms of their maturity level, in terms of letting other people shine as as you know, that's critical.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_03: You gotta let you know both people have to shine when they're competing.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, when you're competing for that spotlight, maturity is is is a critical factor.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_08: So you graduate from Stetson in 1998, and then within a few years, you're at a law firm where you're gonna be for 25 years.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, but I'm looking at your LinkedIn, and I did a little research here.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_08: Uh I don't know if you're aware of this, um, but there's a well, I'll I'll just read it and then I'll ask you about it.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_08: Your LinkedIn page says that from 2001 to 2025, you worked at the law offices of Donald C.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_08: Anderson.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_08: It also says that for the exact same time period, 2001, 2025, you worked at the law offices of Donald C.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_08: Anderson the third.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_08: How did you keep your two employers from finding out about each other, Donnie?
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that you know, it looked like there was maybe some accusations of double dipping, so I had to be very careful.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: So uh no, I you know I I was actually a court appointed for uh several years where I did court-appointed work.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: So we created a separate corporation and another firm so that I could do those separately from the firm.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it created less con fewer conflicts, I think.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_03: And uh that that's part of what I didn't realize it appeared that way, but I'll I'll be sure to check that out and fix it.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_08: Well, I I let's hope that the IRS isn't listening to this podcast.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, exactly.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_08: I gotcha.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_08: Um so are you Donald C.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_08: Anderson the third?
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_08: Yes, I am.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_08: How come that he didn't go by Donald C.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_08: Anderson the second then at his firm?
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um I don't know.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna ask him that.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: I think we may have asked him that once, but I think his Father was a doctor, and I don't know.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe he just didn't feel honestly.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_03: I really don't know the answer.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'll ask him and I will see if I can get back to you on that with an update.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I'm sure there was some conscious decision that makes very little sense to any of us.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_08: But no.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_08: Listeners, I will follow up.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_08: This is what we call investigative journalism.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_08: Uh are are you still practicing?
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I do.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_03: I still practice.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'm selective in the cases that I take.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh mostly federal criminal work.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_03: I I take that.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and again, I'm very selective in the criminal cases I still take.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_03: And um I usually keep anywhere from five to ten cases alive still at any given point.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_03: So that's about what I carry right now.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_08: What is your favorite courtroom war story?
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_03: Oh wow.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_03: I wish I'd had time to think of this one.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um you can also pause and think about it before you answer that.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: No, I think one of my favorite ones was uh one of my one of my clients.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_03: I I really when you do court-appointed work, you have to have client control and you have to have those hard conversations with them so they don't do things to to hurt themselves in court.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember one particular uh I told him, I said, look, when you get up, you're asking for the judge to give you mercy.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_03: We're we're pleaing open and and uh the judge is gonna have a great deal to say in what happens to you.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_03: So be honest.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_03: Don't don't try and you know, don't be yesterday, you know.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_03: And uh at the time the judge went through the colloquy and went through the plea colloquy and said, Are you under the influence of any drugs or alcohol that would affect your ability to understand what's going on here?
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_03: He looked at me, and the moment he looked at me, I knew he was gonna say something that I didn't want him to say.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_03: But he looked at me and he said, Yes, Your Honor, I smoked a blunt on the way into the courthouse today.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I looked at him kind of shocked, and the judge kind of looked like she was about to laugh, but shocked nonetheless.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I looked and I said, Well, Judge, you did say to be honest, and he answered the questions truthfully, and I think he did that and tried to make the best of it.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_03: But that was that was a tough one.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_03: And uh the judge did give him some uh respect for having shown up and and been honest and been candid about it, but she did give him a hard time.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_03: And uh that was a fun one.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_03: That was a fun, that was a fun day, but points out that you really have to your clients will say anything at any time.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_03: Uh what was the resolution of the case?
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_03: They put them back on probation.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_03: They put them back on probation.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_03: It was a violation of probation and uh a new law violation, and uh the judge continued his probation based on that.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm sure I have some more juicy ones, but uh yeah, that one that one's kind of lighthearted, I guess I could talk about openly.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_08: Now, in addition to your practice, you also coached at your alma mater, Stetson, for how many years?
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_03: Uh right after I graduated.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_03: Uh 98 is when I graduated, and I started with uh coaching with Pamela Bell, who is now a coach, I believe, at Liberty.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I coached with her the first year after I graduated.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then I coached nonstop for about 12 or 15 years.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_03: And uh then I started back up with Judge uh David DeMurs and Susan DeMurs at Stetson, and I worked with them coaching.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so I've coached my own teams, I've coached with other coaches, and um I've been doing I did that up until about 2021.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_08: What competition result are you most proud of?
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_03: Uh well, recently last year, I I think we we made the semifinals for Kelly Cup, which was uh I I think it's a very difficult competition.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_03: I thought the level of of of competition was out that was really outstanding.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we were so excited to get invited from where we started to where we were last year.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_03: And my that I believe last year was my fourth year here.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um getting to just getting invited was amazing.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think Adam runs a great competition.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_03: And uh when we got there, we were just terrified.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_03: We didn't want to be in the bottom four because we knew he couldn't come back if we didn't get in the bottom four.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: My students kept asking me, How are we doing?
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_03: How are we doing?
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I said, look, I think we lost a ballot to Stetson, but I still think if we win, we might be able to make it.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_03: And we did, and we had it broke perfectly for us.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_03: The right teams that had to lose, lost by the right amount of ballots.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_03: You've been there.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_03: And uh turned out we broke and we made the semifinals.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_03: We lost uh Coach Weams team and uh from Houston, fantastic, well-coached team, obviously by Judge Weams.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, but I have to tell you, those two students who I had working, they they really they had nobody who were above them who'd had any experience with the competition to kind of clue them in about the competition.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so we were all kind of flying blind and we didn't know how it was going to work out, and it worked out in our favor.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I know it's only a semifinal, but it was it was pretty damn impressive for us.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_03: It was a it was a meaningful win, a meaningful victory in our sense.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_08: Well, it's not just a semifinal because it's semifinal, one of the hardest competitions.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_08: Uh for those who haven't done it, Kelly is an Ironman competition.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_08: Both competitors have to do both sides of the case, and the cases are really robust.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_08: There's tons of evidentiary issues, the trials are long, um, and you're facing top advocates from other schools.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_08: So congratulations.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_08: What about your time coaching at Stetson?
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_08: What result are you most proud of?
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I think we were semifinalists against you all at NCTC.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think that was one of my favorite competitions.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_03: Because again, I think the level of competition there is high.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, probably, I want to say that was in 18, 19.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_03: You would probably remember better than I did, NCTC.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but going against one of your teams, uh, it was a loss, a close loss.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: But I felt like our team was very well tested and it was a great problem.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_03: It was a uh hotel liability case where somebody was murdered and uh found in a retention tank or response uh something tanked at a top of a roof of a hotel.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_08: Uh that was like 2021 or 22.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_08: It was online.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_03: It was the beginning of COVID.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_03: But um and so yes, I guess that's why I think I've I'm so proud of that one because it was something where uh myself and Judge DeMurs and Susan de Murs, who coached there and but they've always been partners of mine, uh, we we were trying something we hadn't done.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_03: And we were we weren't we were doing something new on Zoom and trying to relearn how to coach and and learn how to coach a different way.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it showed that what we were doing would translate even online.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_03: And it felt it was kind of a reassuring victory, I guess, for us of of advancing in that competition.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_03: So, but I uh you know, in the end, is the reality is that Stetson, it was expected to advance.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_03: When I coached, you were expected to advance.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_03: You didn't really want to come home without a trophy, and you never do.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_03: But when I came to ONU, we had a different, you know, it was a brand new program.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_03: So the goals were different.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_03: And uh again, the ones that I'm gonna mention now, there it may not be a win, but they're a win for the program.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_03: And and when you're new, that's important.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_08: So let's talk about your move to Ohio Northern.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_08: Um Charlie Rose becomes Dean at ONU in 2019.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_08: In 2022, three years later, you become the director of advocacy.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_08: Obviously, you knew Charlie from Stetson, but how did he convince you to leave Florida where you'd grown up, gone to school, practiced law, coached your entire life?
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_08: How do you convince you to leave Florida for Ada, Ohio?
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I I I mean, it's kind of a a lot of different things.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, as you know, Stetson has a lot of coaches.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_03: Uh they they have a lot of coaches there and they're in very, very good hands.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_03: At the time when Charlie called me, uh, I I mean, I respect Charlie, and everywhere he's gone, he's had success.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_03: So when he reached out to me and asked me if I was interested in in coming up and helping, um, I viewed it as a challenge and something that that I wasn't probably gonna get the opportunity to do at Stetson.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_03: And it was something that was needed here.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_03: They needed somebody to come up and do it.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I had the ability that at that time in my life to do it.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and I didn't want to say no to Charlie because he was uh he offered the job to me and uh we we didn't know what it was.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_03: It was kind of we we didn't have many people returning.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_03: I think we had six people on that first team, and uh Charlie just signed us up for a bunch of stuff.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_03: And uh we just I I was I he called me on August 1st of that year, and I was in Ohio October or uh August 6th, five days later.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I I believed in him.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_03: I believed what he was saying, and I knew what he brought to Stetson.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I felt at that time that Stetson was going to be okay without me.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_03: As as you know, I wasn't bigger than the program.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_03: It was I was part of the program, but I knew that what we built at Stetson could be applied elsewhere, and that's what we wanted to try and find out, and I think we did.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think we at least entering our fifth year, we're competitive where we need to go, and that that is far from where we were when I started.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm really proud about that.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, you know, I just thanked Charlie for giving me that opportunity because I wouldn't have had it without him, and I'm I'm very happy.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_08: You mentioned some of the differences between the two programs going from Stetson to ONU.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_08: What about the culture shock going from St.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_08: Petersburg, Florida in Gulfport and Tampa to Ada, Ohio?
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_08: What are the biggest uh culture shocks to that move?
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_03: Uh well I I remember, I I mean, I'll I'll backtrack a little bit because when uh when I left Stetson, Liz had Liz Bowles had just finished her first year, and I love Liz.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_03: We I she was just coming as I was going, and and we were all working together, and I wish I'd had more time to work with her.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_03: But I remember talking to her about leaving, and I had to tell her that I was leaving Stetson, which was really sad.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_03: I remember I think I had to grab tissue.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_03: I was so upset about it.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_03: But I remember telling her, and she goes, You're not gonna like it there.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's cold, Donnie.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_03: And she reminded me.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I for the first couple months I kept telling her, I'm like, oh, I'm waiting for this, I'm waiting for it.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's not so bad.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_03: Then January comes around, and then February comes around when I'm used to pitchers and catchers reporting in Florida, and that isn't a thing in Ohio.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_03: And that's when I realized that this was definitely different than where I was at.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_08: Now you you're very humble.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_08: You're unlikely to want to take personal credit, but the numbers I think speak for themselves.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_08: 2019, Ohio Northern earned zero points in Fordham's TCPR.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_08: 2020, zero points.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_08: 2021, zero points.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_08: But when you arrive in 2022, this the results skyrocket, completely turnaround.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_08: You've earned Fordham points every year, you've been top 40 in Gavel twice.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_08: You made the break at nine different tournaments, including some big ones, like you mentioned.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_08: You've won a bid to the National Trial League Nationals, won your NTC regional.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_08: What's the biggest thing you changed when you became director of advocacy at Ohio Northern?
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I hadn't even thought about it until you just said it like that.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's a lot.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um the the there was a commitment to teamwork and to doing repetitions, even if it doesn't mean that you're even if it means you're not going to get an opportunity to shine.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_03: Uh what's changed the most was getting people to buy into something that they probably weren't even going to realize was going to help them until a year or two out of law school.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so I had to be honest with them.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I had to I'll I'll tell you what I did primarily was I didn't celebrate nonsense.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't, I didn't have small wins and tell them, hey, you guys were the best.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_03: I I wasn't dishonest with them.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_03: I was very candid, like, hey, well, that's a step, but we got a long way to go.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_03: That was the one thing.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the other was that they they had to buy in that we couldn't have superstars.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_03: We could not have superstars on the team.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_03: Uh if they happened to come and the superstars rose out of what we were building, it would so be it.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_03: But the goal is is that everybody has to have a chance to shine.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the only way you get through those preliminary rounds where all the judges get to see everyone and they get to see all of your flaws.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Charlie always said that uh, you know, you're only as uh as strong as your weakest link.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's true.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's so true.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_03: And if you just have, if you just look for people who are advocates who uh are just amazing from the start, you're gonna have a really small team.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_03: And that's just not the way the world works.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_03: When we're out in the real world, we get to meet with whoever we're paired with as a trial partner.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I think making sure that they that we had the buy-in from the students early on, that they were gonna do the hard work and we were gonna start the students who showed up, not the ones who were just the best.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_03: Once we implemented that and Charlie allowed me the opportunity to make those hard decisions and tell people who were really good that, yeah, we didn't have a spot for them.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, that was the biggest opportunity to change in a place that hadn't experienced much success.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_08: Now, from the outside, you've always come across as a really nice, kind, upbeat, one of the friendliest people in the community.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_08: Is that your coaching style too?
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_08: Or are you a little more bad cop when you're with students?
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_03: Depends on if you ask my, you're gonna ask my students or not.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I I tell them that I'm not here to tell them they're awesome all the time.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_03: I tell them at the beginning that if they want to take trial advocacy and just be told that performing the skill is enough, then that's one class that we have.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_03: But if they want to do this, that they have to be willing to hear the hard things.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_03: They have to be willing to hear the fact that they uh are too loud or too soft spoken, or that they come across being unlikable.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_03: Or you have to talk about things that most people think are very personal attacks, and you have to get over that.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, so I think depending on the student, some students may think I'm very mean for talking about personal things and how you're being perceived.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but I have a feeling in general, most people tell you would tell you that I that I tell you the tough things.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think I'm mean.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, they may sound mean, but I don't think that's I I certainly that's not where I'm coming from.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_03: But uh yeah, I think my my style outside of the courtroom, I am definitely uh pretty laid back.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_03: But in our preparation, I'm very detail-oriented.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_03: I want to make sure we don't miss things.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess detail-oriented, maybe not mean.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_08: You said that when you got to ONU, there were six returning students.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_08: How many students are in the program now?
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I just met with my Chief Justice.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think we're at 22, 22 right now, and that's with two L's and three L's.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_08: Do you do you call the student Chief Justice in person?
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_03: Oh no, I do not.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_03: I do not.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I don't think she'd want me to.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_03: But uh yeah, she's I I've been very fortunate that every year I've been lucky enough to have a uh mock chief justice of in the who's taken that position, uh, who's just tolerated my I I'm kind of I have my hands in everything.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_03: I I kind of coach or have my hands in almost coaching almost all of the competitions in some way.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I felt like um you you have to have somebody like that to help you, otherwise you can't do it all by yourself.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_03: So my my my chief assistant, my chief justice, whoever we choose every year, I've been fortunate to have them uh do all the things that I don't do very well.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_08: Which is a more ridiculous name, calling the student who's head of the trial team Chief Justice, or what they do at William and Mary, which is calling them chief counsel?
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_08: Which one's more absurd?
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_03: I gotta say chief justice.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_03: What we've chosen was uh, you know, I inherited it, and I probably would call it something different if I didn't.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_03: But uh that decision was made before I was there.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I don't know.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_03: Students have a weird way of wanting to keep things that acknowledge their their movement up through the school in terms of uh prestige.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_03: So uh I'm not sure that's going away anyway.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_08: If you have suggestions for a better title, no, I think it's pretty I think I I think it's pretty great.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_08: It but I want to make sure is there a swearing in ceremony?
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_03: Would you like there to be one?
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_03: Because if if that's important to you, then and it would make it more legitimate.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_03: We could definitely do that.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, and to be clear, I don't mean swearing in for them.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_08: I'm talking about swearing in for you because you know when somebody becomes president, the chief justice swears them in.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_08: I want you I want you to have to put your hand on the book, whether that's the Bible or you know, the the Charlie Rose uh book, or yeah I've got some books, but books and books two.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_08: Whatever you want to swear in on, I think the chief justice at your school should be doing that.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_03: Uh well, I will make sure that they do.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure they'd love that.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_03: True.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_03: So, but there to answer your question, that one of your books is actually in our mock trial room.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_03: It made it in there.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_03: I looked and I said, Where the and it's on there.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_03: So if you got a if you've got somebody who bought it, it may have been our school.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_07: Um that that could get you in trouble at Ohio Northern.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_03: Not anymore.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh no, but it's it is funny because I walked in one day and I looked, I was like, I mean, I've read your book, it's a good book.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I thank you.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_03: I saw it and I'm like, that's a really that's they do use it.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so I I mean, I I think it's it's it it should be flattering to you, but they do think the world of you and your program.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_03: So uh you know, they love these things, they love this scripted direct unscripted direct, they love it.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_03: I listened to it.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_03: Uh when I first got here, I told students about it and they thought I was nuts.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_03: But uh, and then all of a sudden they start listening to it.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_03: And then they hear your name's getting predicted or your school's getting predicted, and they think that's really neat.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_03: So what you do is it's good, it's good, and it makes people happy.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so thank you for that.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_08: So I I want to ask you something that I imagine a lot of our listeners are wondering because when we saw over the listserv that uh Charlie was going to Barry back in Florida, where you practiced, where you coached, you know, no, no, not at Barrie, but in Florida.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_08: I think a lot of people were waiting for the next email, which said that you were gonna follow to to Barry.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_08: And we have we haven't heard that.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_08: So sorry if I ask, are you gonna stay at Ohio Northern or are you going to Barry?
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm I'm staying at Ohio Northern.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I I was asked that by quite a few people, and I was actually surprised.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh looking back on it, maybe I shouldn't have been.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_03: But um Charlie gave me an amazing opportunity here that you know I don't know if we asked both of us, neither of us would know what it was that he was asking us to do.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_03: Uh but um I think at this stage of my career, it's probably better for me to kind of continue doing what I've been doing here and and make it I I've just got some things that I haven't finished yet.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_03: And there's some things that I I still want to do within this program.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um and uh I you know, following Charlie to Orlando, and I've well, first of all, I don't know that that offer has ever been made.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_03: It hasn't been as far as I'm concerned.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_03: But second, I I just I have I have a lot of things I want to still accomplish here at Ohio Northern.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I have a lot of friends and family.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_03: I still get to spend some summer and a good amount of summertime over the break with my family and friends in Florida, get to play poker, get to go have some fun.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but that usually as long as I make sure that I re-energize myself and juice up my batteries, I'm I'm ready to go do it every year.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_03: And this is uh we're this this is a program that uh, you know, and you can cut this if you want, obviously, but like this is a rather this is an area of need in terms of geographically for education.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_03: For uh attorney said, I live in a rather rural area.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we're just opening up a rural clinic where we've been given a grant to to expand our reach of our school.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but it it was something I can do more good here in Ohio than I ever could at St.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_03: Petersburg, where I'm one of 50 coaches.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_03: And that's not to slight Stetson because I love my time there.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_03: They're still my friends, still my very close friends, always very good to me, and they'll always help me whenever I need a hand.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh but at this point, I think I think my skills and the things that I can present, I I can do more of that here than I could at Stetson at the time.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_03: And uh that's why I'm sticking around.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_08: Well, that's great.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_08: Uh you're obviously doing a really good job, and they are lucky to have you.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_08: Well, thank you very much.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_08: So let's turn to some fun stuff.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, you've taught and and and coached at two different schools.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_08: So I want to find out which school do you know better?
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_08: We're gonna I'm gonna give you five trivia questions for Stetson and five for Ohio Northern.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_08: Are you ready?
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, I guess so.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_03: Let's give it a shot.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_08: Which one do you want to do first?
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_08: You want the Stetson questions first?
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_08: The Ohio Northern questions first.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_03: Are we doing one and are we going back and then we're gonna go to the first one?
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_08: We're gonna do all five, all five of one and then all five of the other.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well, let's just go with ONU then.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_03: Let's start with that.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_03: That's more recent in my memory.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_08: Uh we within 10%.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_08: What is the enrollment at Ohio Northern?
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_03: Our first year starting class starts at approximately 80 or 90 students.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_03: So how that works out afterwards, I would imagine under 300.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_08: So I need an exact number to guess.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_08: That way I can tell you whether you're within within 10%.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_03: I gotta give you an exact number.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_03: That probably makes sense.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_03: Uh 260.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_08: Ooh, just outside the top, the the 10%.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_08: It's 305 according to the Ohio Northern website.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_08: So just missed it.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_08: But yeah.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we also have an online program.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not sure if that counts that too.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_03: So uh not sure.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_08: All right.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_08: Nice try, defense attorney.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_08: It's open.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, in what year was Ohio Northern founded?
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_08: If you're within 10 years, you get the point.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the law school or the main school?
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_08: The law school.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_06: The law school.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um wow, I don't even.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_03: This is embarrassing.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_03: Uh 1935.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_03: 1885.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_08: It's the second oldest law school in Ohio behind Cincinnati, which was founded shockingly in the 1830s.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, okay.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what?
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_03: There's a sign out front that says that.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I I really should get dinged twice for not knowing that.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_08: So once is gonna be enough.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_08: Uh all right.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_08: So it's the it's the pedit school of law, right?
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_08: Um who is the pedit that it's named after?
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_08: First name?
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_03: Oh gosh.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um wow.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna get fired for this, maybe.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um is it Thomas?
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_08: Uh we're gonna give you the point.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_08: It's Claude.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_08: Claude.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_08: Uh that's that's what we call a pity point.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_08: Uh yeah, this is this is this is rough.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I hope he's not part of my endowment.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, I hope I hope that Barry application is still open.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_08: Uh all right.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_08: Who is the highest ranking person in government in the Ohio government who graduated from Ohio Northern?
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, is it DeWine?
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_03: Mike Dewine, our governor?
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_08: All right.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_08: So since you got that one, I'm I'm taking back the pity point.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_08: All right, so you you have one point.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_08: Can you tell me the Ohio Northern mascot?
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_08: Polar bear.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_08: Yes.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_08: And for a bonus, uh for half a point, uh, what is the name of the the polar bear mascot?
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_08: This is no colour.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_08: This is extra credit.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's claw dying.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_08: Oh, wow.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_08: Okay, well, so no.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_08: Two points, two points for your own higher northern knowledge.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_08: All right, we're heading uh heading to Stetson.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_08: Within 10%, what is the current student enrollment?
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_08: Um 900?
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_08: Correct.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_08: You were within 10%.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_08: Wow.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_08: Uh yep, yep.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_08: Um all right, so you're one for one.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_08: What year was Stetson founded?
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_03: I have no clue.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'll go with uh let's go 1935.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_08: 1900.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_08: 1900.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_08: All right.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_08: In what year did Stetson first rank number one in US news trial advocacy category?
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_03: I would have to say probably in the mid early 90s, late 80s, like 89.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_08: So what what is your if you're if you're within a year?
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_08: Ooh, 1995.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_08: Oh, okay.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_03: That was right when I started at the law school.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_08: Well, maybe that's why.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_08: You started at the law school, you tried up for the team.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_08: They're like, if this guy takes two years to make the team, there's gotta be the number one program.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_03: I love that spin.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_08: All right, so episode 94 of our show, interview Bobby Flowers.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_08: Where was she standing or sitting when she came up with the idea for Eats in 2004?
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, and I heard this whole thing where was she standing or sitting?
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_03: Her location.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_03: I want to say, well, what is it?
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I mean, I would assume it's at a bar, to be honest with you.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_07: So at a you're assuming it's a bar?
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_07: What are you telling us about Bobby?
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_03: Well, no, I've known Bobby, and like that.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's probably where we had the conversation.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm trying to think it was probably over cocktails somewhere on the beach.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I would usually say.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_08: I'm sorry.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_08: It's at her dining room table.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_08: Oh.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_08: Dining room table.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_03: Well, let's grab the whole part about drinks because I don't want her getting upset with me.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_08: So uh we'll see.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_08: We'll see.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_08: Uh but you know, when when when Hamilton talks about the room where it happened for law school trial ad, the room where it happened is Bobby Flower's dining room table.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_08: All right.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_08: Question number five.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_08: Because I think you've gotten one so far.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_08: Okay, you know, you you got the uh the enrollment.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_08: Um 1984 Stetson alum, Rich McKay, later became the general manager for which NFL team?
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_03: They became the general manager of two teams, from what I remember.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_03: And Atlanta, Tampa Bay and Atlanta Falcons.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_08: Uh I think that one's worth extra credit.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_08: We're going to call it a tie between these two.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, you know your schools will say equally well.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_03: I like that.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's a good answer.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_03: I appreciate it.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_08: When I was when I was chatting with you beforehand, Donnie, you said that um, quote, I still play soccer at my age.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_08: Uh what does that mean?
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I uh when I I played it in college, I played it in high school, and then uh, you know, I tried to continue to play every year, and then there was always an under 30 or an under such and such, and then it became an over-30 league and an over 40 league.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I just haven't found an over 50 league.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm 55 now, and I play so when I find one, I usually just kind of come in as a sub and try and preserve my knees as best I can.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_03: But I still like to be able to say I can run up and down the field, and that that's just an ego thing, I'm assuming.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_03: But uh yeah, I still play, but I I don't necessarily think that I'm a plus contributor to any team that I'm on at this stage.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_08: So teasing aside, soccer at 55 is impressive.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_03: I appreciate that.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh like I said, I don't do it well, but I do do it.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_03: So uh that's that and poker keep me busy.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_08: So when did you start playing poker?
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I always played uh, I mean, growing up around the around the table just playing stud, playing some small penny penny games.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but I think right when I started uh right when I started law school, I started playing tournaments at um some of the local card rooms.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't play cast poker.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_03: I play mostly tournaments where you buy in a certain amount, a designated amount, and once your chips are gone, you're out of the tournament.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_03: That's that that's the style I play.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I started playing that right out of law school, right before law school, kind of as a stress reliever.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_03: And then uh I don't know.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_03: I just I've just always done it after I graduated.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's something that I that gives me great comfort, relief, uh stress relief.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think it kind of keeps you sharp in terms of keeping your your brain sharp with math and math skills and and kind of understanding human behavior.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's kind of what what I like about it.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_08: What is your favorite poker story?
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um Oh, okay.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_03: Here's here's a good one.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_03: Where we had there was about five of us left in a poker tournament.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_03: There was about, I think, two or three hundred entries.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_06: And what what what year is this?
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I want to say 2010, 2000, 15, 16 years ago.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_08: And were you were you playing?
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_03: I was playing in St.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_03: Petersburg, Florida.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_03: Uh uh, it was then called Derby Lane.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's called Wind Derby now.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's a dog track.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but it was a tournament and the the prize pool was was pretty decent.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_03: And usually once you get toward the end of a tournament, if the once the blinds get really high and it and there's not much uh action and everybody's just kind of pushing all of their chips in every hand, uh people start talking about making a deal and making a deal where we split the prize pool up four or five ways, we call it a chop.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_03: Uh depending on whether whether it's a good deal or not for me with based on how many chips I have, I'll consider it.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_03: Uh one player in particular looked and said, I'm not chopping with any of you guys because I'm better than every one of you.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's what he said.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_03: He just said because I'm better than all of you.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_03: And and you've played poker before.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_03: There's skill, there's a lot of luck involved, too.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and for him to say that, it looked, and every one of us just looked one at each other at the table and we're just like, we're just gonna raise this guy every time, whenever he's in the hand, because he was such a jerk.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and it was just nobody spoke about it.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_03: We just collectively kind of looked at each other and we knew what we did, and we we busted him out.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_03: We kind of collaborated and uh colluded and all those things you're not supposed to do, but we kind of felt the ends justified the means, and we busted him out, and then we all chopped the moment he was busted from the tournament.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_03: So we all agreed to it.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_03: And now it was a uh a humbling lesson for the other individual, I imagine, hopefully.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_08: That's amazing.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, even if he were the best player, like when you're at that at that stage of the tournament, it's so much luck involved.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_03: So and to say I'm not doing it, I would, but I'm better than all of you.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you're not winning friends and influencing people that way.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_06: Well, that I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm glad that was the result.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, what is the most you've ever won uh at one tournament?
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think my highest cash is like 12 or 13,000 in a tournament, something like that.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_03: Ballpark.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_03: I well, I play lower stakes, my buy-ins and tournaments.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_03: I play like 100, 200 buy-ins.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, the tournaments you see on TV, like uh World Series of Poker, those are you know$5,000,$10,000 buy-in tournaments.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_03: So um I I mean I've had decent results.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's been fun.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_03: I don't consider myself a pro, but I've made a good amount of money over the years at it.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I uh again, it's just such a relaxing thing for me.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_03: It makes me feel it gets my mind off of what we do here, which takes a lot of time and pressure, as you know.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_08: So for so for those who are listening who who aren't vague into poker, um, he's being very humble.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_08: The fact is, tournaments are are much harder than cash games.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_08: I play almost exclusively cash games, and tournaments have almost all of the same challenges of a cash game, uh, same considerations, same strategy, but you also have the tournament considerations the rising blinds, the long hours, uh, the fact that some people are going to be short stacked, and it's just much more complicated, and you have so many more things to think about.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_08: So the fact that you've been successful there is very impressive.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'm very fortunate to have played and uh I I lost a lot of money before I started winning, though.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's just you know, anybody that tells you they didn't they weren't bad at something first, they're they're you we know that they're lying usually.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_03: So there is a learning curve to everything we've done.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_08: What do you think is the b the biggest lesson or two to draw from poker into trilad?
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I absolutely I've thought about this all a lot because it's such I I play poker and I teach.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_03: Those are the two things that I do most in my life.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I think about the term of return on investment.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_03: And a term I always use with my students is is the juice worth the squeeze?
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_03: That's the term I always use.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I've used that in a poker term.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, is that what are we gonna get out of this particular witness?
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_03: If we go down this route, let's cost-benefit analysis each piece of information we're gonna get.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_03: What does it give us?
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_03: What does it take away from us?
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_03: What does it let Justin's team beat us up on during rebuttal?
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_03: What do we get to beat up on them about during rebuttal?
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_03: And we do a we do a cost-benefit analysis for every move that we make and creating our cases and how we're gonna respond to the objections you make.
• 1:13:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's the same thing I do in poker.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_03: I look and I've I'm raising a certain hand, knowing that if you raise me, I have I already in my head, I know what I'm going to do once you've raised.
• 1:13:14
  SPEAKER_03: I I have a method of the way I approach it and the certain value that I'm gonna get out of every move.
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, so it's a cost-benefit analysis that I go through in a poker hand.
• 1:13:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's the same kind of thing I do when I make a decision with regard to what path we're gonna take or what piece of evidence we're gonna try and propound and and what what themes we're gonna use.
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_03: That that's how I I think of it in terms of you you don't wanna put your neck out there if you don't have to, and uh getting as much positive value out of your witnesses without sticking yourself out there and believing yourself vulnerable.
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_03: So uh I think that I think does that kind of answer the question?
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like the connection there.
• 1:13:51
  SPEAKER_08: Last question for you what is your favorite thing you're good at and your favorite thing you're not so good at?
• 1:13:55
  SPEAKER_08: And and it might be soccer and poker, but uh I'm curious.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_08: Favorite thing you're good at and favorite thing you're not so good at?
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um favorite thing I'm good at is I'm I'm I'm really decent in crisis situations.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like when things are a disaster and things are about falling apart, I I keep my head together very well.
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's some it's one of the things that I'm able to do pretty decent.
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_03: Is that when uh when a when a pro advocate doesn't show up for something, I I we've we know I usually know how to put the pieces back together pretty well and I'm I work well under pressure.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um but what do I do?
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_03: What do I enjoy that I'm not good at?
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_03: Singing.
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_03: I like singing, but I'm bad at it.
• 1:14:32
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really bad at it.
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_08: When do you sing?
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_03: Shower privately, yeah.
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_03: In the car.
• 1:14:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah.
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm very, very bad at it.
• 1:14:40
  SPEAKER_03: But I really do like it because I think I'm good for listening to me.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_03: I think I'm okay.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_03: But anybody else who's listened, I'm not not at all.
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_08: So have you done karaoke?
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_03: I have.
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um uh tense you see, things you do for love we do for love.
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_03: That one's a good one.
• 1:14:54
  SPEAKER_03: I've done that one.
• 1:14:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um uh some Bon Jovi ones I've I've really liked.
• 1:14:59
  SPEAKER_03: Some Grateful Dead.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_03: I've but I'm just I'm very bad at it.
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_03: Very bad.
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_03: But I think in the goal in karaoke to do it poorly.
• 1:15:05
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I don't want to be very good at that.
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_08: Donnie, thank you for coming on.
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_08: And uh it was it was nice to get to know you better.
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks a lot.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_03: I appreciate it.
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the book comes up again.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Championship mock trial.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's an excellent book.
• 1:15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've never sworn in on it or taken any oaths on it, um, but I have cracked it open.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh sounds like Donnie's done at least that.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_00: We we appreciate the support.
• 1:15:32
  SPEAKER_08: We're gonna finish strong with our mailbag, and this time it's a triple mailbag.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_08: Three different letters.
• 1:15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_08: Okay, all right.
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_08: It's great.
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 1:15:43
  SPEAKER_08: This one comes from KD in Florida.
• 1:15:46
  SPEAKER_08: Oh, okay.
• 1:15:46
  SPEAKER_08: Uh self-described Floridian.
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_08: She asks, who would win in an arm wrestling match between you and me?
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I usually do.
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um we just went before dinner.
• 1:15:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think I win about 60% of the time.
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_08: Uh that's not true.
• 1:16:01
  SPEAKER_08: I like I like the story.
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_08: I like the made it up, but you you would win 100% of the time.
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think we'd be I think what would happen is we would start arm wrestling and you'd go about three seconds and you just get tired.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, both of us.
• 1:16:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think that's what happened.
• 1:16:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I don't know.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_00: I I guess somebody wins or loses at that point, but I I think it wouldn't be very it wouldn't be worth the price of its free admission if you're he's humble, but he's strong.
• 1:16:24
  SPEAKER_08: Spencer wins.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_08: All right.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_08: Uh second mailbag question.
• 1:16:27
  SPEAKER_08: This one comes from Robert Little.
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_08: Uh and I wish I wish I'd thought about this more because it's such a great question.
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_08: Uh oh, sorry.
• 1:16:33
  SPEAKER_08: It comes from RL.
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_08: In Waco.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_08: Uh Robert asks, assume we are a mock trial team, you and I, uh Spencer.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_08: Oh two-person team.
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_08: Who do we want to face and why?
• 1:16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I didn't understand the question until you interpreted it.
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um Wow, that's quite interesting.
• 1:16:53
  SPEAKER_08: Um, like somebody from the community or or or I think I think yeah, I think which which directors do we want to face?
• 1:17:00
  SPEAKER_08: Which yeah, I think that that's how the question was.
• 1:17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man, California style.
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Do you go East Coast versus West Coast?
• 1:17:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do you take it to the south?
• 1:17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Do you keep it in state?
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_08: Uh so Spencer, before you answer, I'm gonna propose that since we're a two-person team, uh uh, we should obviously face a two-person team.
• 1:17:18
  SPEAKER_08: Well, why don't you pick one of the opponents and I'll pick one of the opponents?
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I like it.
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_00: This is easy um because I like to I like domination.
• 1:17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so Robert Little would be opposite.
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't know if he's related to RL uh at Awaco, but it's funny if he is, because he's the guy we would crush.
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_08: Wow.
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_08: Shots shots fired.
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 1:17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Fired.
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:17:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:17:39
  SPEAKER_00: So so I would probably to make it fair, we probably should give him somebody else to have on his team, though, right?
• 1:17:44
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, it's a good idea.
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_08: So, first of all, I guess the the premise of the questions if we are a mock trial team, only one person is able to give us eligibility, even though we are graduated from law school, and that's that's Judge Robert.
• 1:17:55
  SPEAKER_08: So um he probably can't be our opponent because I'm not sure what that would make us eligible.
• 1:18:01
  SPEAKER_08: Um so that's out.
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_08: I would love to face Stanford, but they don't have a trial out director.
• 1:18:06
  SPEAKER_08: Um I don't know if they teach it.
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_08: Um so I'm gonna go with Jerry Powell from Baylor for a different reason.
• 1:18:12
  SPEAKER_08: Uh it'd be good to see him again.
• 1:18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, really hard hitting there.
• 1:18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_00: He'd kick our bots anyway.
• 1:18:19
  SPEAKER_08: Probably.
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_08: Uh all right.
• 1:18:21
  SPEAKER_08: Last question.
• 1:18:22
  SPEAKER_08: This one comes from Brett Bain.
• 1:18:24
  SPEAKER_08: This one he has he has two questions actually.
• 1:18:26
  SPEAKER_08: One is is just for you.
• 1:18:28
  SPEAKER_08: Spencer, was there as much flashing as you expected at flash trials?
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_00: I I I don't even see why this is a joke.
• 1:18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um everybody was doing flash trials.
• 1:18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um that requires, you know, uh doing uh flashing of flash trials.
• 1:18:46
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, if it if there's a joke in there, it's just lost on me.
• 1:18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there was a lot of it and I expected it.
• 1:18:51
  SPEAKER_08: Follow-up question from Brett then.
• 1:18:53
  SPEAKER_08: Where are the recordings of the rounds?
• 1:18:56
  SPEAKER_08: Okay, uh his other question, he says, since this week is Battle of the Experts, he imagined a battle who would win in a fight 100 fill-sized uh Thomas R.
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_08: Klein statues or one Thomas R.
• 1:19:10
  SPEAKER_08: Klein statue-sized fill.
• 1:19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh hundred fill-sized uh Thomas R.
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Klein statues or one uh Thomas R.
• 1:19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Klein statue-sized fill.
• 1:19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I I think you always gotta go with the numbers.
• 1:19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you just have to go with the numbers.
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean the first 30 or 40 are gone, you know, but it's the numbers, I think.
• 1:19:35
  SPEAKER_08: I I I dug a little deeper because at the end of the day, it's a hundred statues.
• 1:19:40
  SPEAKER_08: They're they're inanimate, and it's one fill.
• 1:19:42
  SPEAKER_08: So the winner is the statues.
• 1:19:46
  SPEAKER_08: All right, we we've teased them enough.
• 1:19:47
  SPEAKER_08: Uh good luck to everybody about all the experts this week.
• 1:19:50
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, we will see you all next week.
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_08: Good luck, folks.
• 1:19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Unscripted Direct is a production of Justin and Spencer.
• 1:19:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're mixed and edited by these damn case.
• 1:19:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not on the lister but want to get our blast email each episode, sign up at www.unscripteddirect.com.
• 1:20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Follow us on social media as follows Instagram or at unscripted direct.
• 1:20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Facebook is Facebook.com slash unscripted direct.
• 1:20:14
  SPEAKER_00: And Twitter is at unscripted.