Latest / Arrivals: A Birth Story Podcast / NICU life with triplets, appreciating your scars, PTSD, and supporting friends in hard times
Transcript
- Merelise Wilson: Hello and welcome back to the Arrivals Podcast. I'm your host, Merelise Wilson, and you're tuning in for part two of Mindy's Triplet Birth Story. So once you were discharged the hospital and came what was that like for Kind of like the day to day of having three babies in the NICU. ⁓ Oof, good question. Hard question. If I were not eight years removed, this would be a question that makes me cry. ⁓ as prepared as I was for that, no one can prepare you for the varying waves of emotions, new You know, navigating a new ⁓ daily routine, also ⁓ juggling, I Travis, ⁓ was already on parental leave, but also sort of tried to coordinate with his company to, you know, save to work immediately while they were in the NICU so that he could save some time when they were actually home. So there were just very real life, hey, what does tomorrow look like? Because we have three babies in a hospital under an incredible care team. Right. It was a whole entire seven days ⁓ before I could hold my babies. ⁓ No, ⁓ I remember getting that first picture though. That day felt incredible, ⁓ but no one me for that period of time. I can't imagine. I can't imagine being separated. And I knew to be ready for that and yet you can't be. No. And ⁓ every ⁓ degree of severity, every reason for a child ⁓ time the NICU is different. ⁓ Truly, I can't emphasize this enough. Like all things considered, I'm so grateful we had three healthy babies. And still there were cords for IVs and monitoring and feeding and they were on CPAP and nasal cannulas and it all was happening on such a quick timeline. I almost didn't even have the time to learn it before they were moving on to the next thing, which is a blessing in disguise, right? As soon as I thought I understood one of the terms, they were graduating to the next level and improving and growing and developing. And that's what you hope for, right? You know, there was the logistical side of it, the actual what we were doing and how, which we've talked about. There's also the emotional realities. And I think that's, I don't want to say hard because you can do it, but it's definitely the toughest part. ⁓ The reality that I had no ability to control anything. You know, you give birth to these babies and you want to be the mother and to let your motherly instincts go wild and to suddenly, and in so many cases, especially with singleton ⁓ births you're just with your baby immediately that bond starts. It was different for us. It was harder to bond through isolates, incubators, cords, nurses, me not knowing what I could or couldn't touch, what beep meant what. It's like they couldn't nurse because they didn't have the function right? you sidebar quickly, nursing was not ever my plan. you know, being fully transparent. I didn't know how I would have sanity, the time, space on my chest. can't even imagine the logistics of how that would work. I had to make a decision on that one to just say, you know what, Mindy? There's ways of help for baby and mom and you do what keeps everyone sane. So I am proud to say I pumped for a year of their life. You pumped for a year? For a year. ⁓ my goodness. The majority of that year or at least the first ⁓ seven months, every three hours. In terms of NICU time... The best part was just cheering on the small milestones. And I think it's such an important part of life is celebrating the small wins. It's a good lesson in general. Such a good lesson. know, there are moments in that journey where people don't even know what you're going through, but you know that the tiniest thing is a huge thing. What do you, what would you tell people who have friends going through a NICU journey or a high risk pregnancy journey? What, what was helpful for you? How did you feel supported during both of those time periods in your life? Great question. you know, we, we did feel extremely supported. had friends offering you being one of them offering meal trains and any support that they could possibly give. think for me, the check-ins like people being curious about those small wins like how so and so doing today, you know, what's the progression. ⁓ There's multiple sides of it, right? There's the emotional side and then there's the stuff that like we weren't necessarily expecting. For us, we were going to and from the hospital every single day. I remember people giving us gas gift cards, know, gift cards to order food, delivery, those little things that could just take something off of our plate, off of our mind where if we had been in the hospital all day long, to come home and have either a casserole to pop in the oven or, you know, a Uber Eats card to just order whatever so that we could just get back to the hospital first thing the next morning. Those things were huge. And that sounds so financial, but it meant far more than that. Friends checking in, not even necessarily on me, but on how the babies were doing in those days that felt like years because they weren't in my home. It meant the absolute world. from a work standpoint, we had at the time the best of the best on both sides of just companies that were supportive. My husband's company. ⁓ offered a sort of flexible parental leave where he could work a little bit while they were in the NICU and then be more of a father when they came home. there's a lot of things I will say about insurance and that's a whole another. I know. It be a whole another podcast, not just an episode, a whole podcast. But no, I could give so much advice to those who are either entering the NICU journey and or supporting someone who is in it. But I think just any aspect of being there and sometimes not even asking what to do, just doing. The decision fatigue is heavy. It's very real. showing up at times like that, I wish I could even say that I specifically remember. And I think that's what's even more important is that it's such a blur and such a fog and such a busy. phase for the person going through it that they just need support and they don't know what to ask for. Yeah. Similarly, as you know, obviously, when my dad passed, And since then, people have asked me how they can support people who are grieving. ⁓ similarly to what you said, a of times I don't remember what people did, but I remember the feeling they gave me. I don't remember what someone said, but I do remember that someone reached out. And there's nothing wrong. You can't say something wrong. At least that's how I felt. Like just letting me know that you cared. I know for me, I second guess a lot of times what to say in situations like that. But now having been on the other side, I'd say, I can say that for me, there's nothing wrong to say. just was, just say something. Just let them know you're thinking about them. Anything. Yeah. Anything. The smallest acts make the biggest difference. You know, I was sort of gonna end with this because we had talked about earlier. I saw a quote by chance within the past week. I'll read it. Quote, every now and then run your fingers across the scar. Remind yourself how far you've come. I think that could be interpreted a lot of different ways. Yeah. Literal scars, emotional scars. For me, I go to literal. You mentioning when your dad passed, you may go emotional. What it means to me is I feel of like grief and joy coexisting. Motherhood is ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ the journey has so many unknowns. ⁓ twists and turns and surprises and things that I thought I could plan that I couldn't and clearly didn't. Decisions to make or in my case lack thereof where I was also sad that I couldn't make certain decisions. So yeah, think a lot of times, you know, I have eight year olds now, I have to truly pause. have to give thanks to my body. And I do, I try to practice this in the weirdest but honest way, most honest way possible. Feel the C-section scar. ⁓ know what your body did. Look at your children, happy, healthy, running around. Like who cares that you'll never wear a bikini again? Look at what you've created. And so for me, it truly is that. Has it necessarily been easy? No. Has it been worth every second? Yes. I've learned so much. I've grown so much. But I think looking back and realizing how far you've come, I think this applies to so much, but motherhood in general, because it can drag on some days and it can fly by in years. And taking that pause to just say, thank you, body. Recognizing your scars and just knowing how far you've come something I'm gonna try and work on more. It's definitely something I can work on more. for sure. That's What was it like once they came home? I know that I mean, not to jump ahead, but I Morgan specifically still came home with quite a few pieces of equipment. it wasn't just like your baby home and it's all easy from there on out. There were still challenges and struggles once they came home. ⁓ remember you seeing me ⁓ my worst ⁓ that period of time. ⁓ emotional realities during the NICU time. But as they transitioned home was equally challenging, ⁓ lot of feelings, so ⁓ and hard. ⁓ And NICU life, ⁓ this me speaking in hindsight eight years down the road. I don't know what I would have said when I was in it. ⁓ I know how lucky we are to have Modern Medicine and amazing NICU teams and hospital teams. What they are able to do for premature babies is amazing. Yeah. My fear was what if I can't do that once they get home? of my other friends shared this, like the fear that are they safer just staying in the hospital? And that starts to creep in your mind. Yeah. Even if all you want is for them to be home, for you to start your family normal, we could not. We were so excited. mean, granted, the transition to home life, it came with all the feelings, all the feelings. But I remember finding out, well, let me back up. We knew based on how they were progressing within two weeks that they were not gonna be coming home on the same day. I think it's actually pretty rare. I would think so. For multiple births, it all just depends on what complications you're facing, right? Like the reason you're in the NICU to start with, plays into when you get to go home. Are you in there for feeding? Are you in there for regulating body temperature? Are you in there for weight? know, prematurity in general, are you in there for respiratory distress? There's so many factors beyond that. I'm so blessed that with three triplets delivered 32 weeks in two days that our NICU time was as short as it was. So Zoe was the first one to come home. We did not necessarily see that coming because she was the one, if I remember correctly, in the most... ⁓ Zoe was the one who had the most respiratory distress at birth and had to be intubated and was given some medicine to kickstart the lungs, surfactant. And suddenly next thing we know, she's the little fighter who's surpassing all milestones and she was in the NICU for two and a half weeks. We couldn't wait to get her home. Because she was the first one, she was the first one to meet our first fur baby. Sweet Gracie. Yes, sweet Gracie. And we got to introduce her to Zoe. And I think the second you walk a baby through the threshold of your front door, that hadn't been there yet and that you've just been waiting day by day to get there. ⁓ It felt surreal. We finally felt like we were real family instead of just like a hospital family. ⁓ But also, I know I for sure underestimated how much of a juggle we were about to face with a baby at home, two babies still in the NICU, life in general, Your body recovering, not only you recovering from- yeah, and that. Yes, not only are you recovering from the surgery, but you also just carry triplets for eight months. that is, ⁓ your body has been through a lot. ⁓ I will say I ⁓ less of the ⁓ needed recovery from the carrying and far more ⁓ the, well, C-section, obviously, surgery, but really ⁓ off the medicine. ⁓ know, I remember you saying that. The ⁓ weirdest few days for me were just ⁓ back to my normal, clear state of mind. ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ off. the meds. So Zoe was home after two a half weeks. Tristan, ⁓ you know, Tristan was in the NICU just under ⁓ four and they have this phrase little boys. I think it's weak white boy. ⁓ I've heard this or something. Something along those lines along those lines. And he was every bit of that definition. There's mostly the worst nursers like, well, we weren't nursing, but that's the context I've heard of. He would fall asleep mid feed. I mean, this started when he still had a tube. Wimpy white boy. That's it. my nurses who hear this just disregard all the things I'm ⁓ white boy. Yeah. And gosh, I love that boy, but he fit every definition. ⁓ and otherwise would have been healthy and ready to be discharged. But he would have a little bit of his bottle and just sleep and sleep and sleep. He wanted nothing to do with developing to leave. So his four weeks were mild. We were like, anytime you want to wake up and finish your bottle, you could probably go home. so we weren't concerned about him. We were not concerned. He took his time. where things really got emotionally hard. And I remember having a night with you during this period of time. It was somewhere between the four to five weeks after they were born. I think we had two babies home. Morgan was still in the NICU. She was having a lot of bradycardias. That was so scary. Yeah. You to tell everyone what that is? Oh gosh, let me try to explain it. You stop breathing? Basically, you stop breathing and the monitor goes off and it looks like your heart is stopped. Yeah, really casual stuff. All I know is my heart skipped. so many beats every time that would happen. Because you think they're dying. They're not breathing suddenly. And I saw enough the very first time I saw her face turn like purple into blue. They resuscitated her. She was totally fine. It was in the NICU. Like that's what they're trained to do. But the PTSD from some of those experiences doesn't leave your brain. No. And yet. You grow accustomed to it? And so there was this period of time where I could not wait for her to get home. would cry every day leaving her. It didn't seem fair that we had this. family of four, there was a missing piece. and yet a part of me. was scared for her to leave the safety net of the NICU. And so when we did finally find out that Morgan was being discharged, she was in the NICU for five and a half weeks. She was still having brates and had to come home on an apnea monitor. I remember. Bless her heart had all the cords connected to her for It was a six month thing. Yeah, you were, you got to be so chill about it. remember ⁓ over time. ⁓ my gosh, over time. But it was so nerve wracking to hold her because she had all these cords coming out of it, like by the, towards the end, even after like, I feel like a few weeks, you were like, it's fine to anyone who would hold her. But was finally you're looking at her and you're like, okay, she's breathing and she's not purple. This is a false alarm. But at first, yeah, poor little thing. I will say the NICU. my gosh, how how thankful I am. But I grew so comfortable to all the life-saving devices that I feared what I was capable of as a mother. And I had to relearn ⁓ to my own ⁓ gut ⁓ my knowledge, my own awareness of my own babies. ⁓ I like this is going to resonate so much with so many NICU moms. ⁓ I can't even tell you the mental like buildup I had to give myself. Like you can keep this baby. I mean, Julie, was like, I asked Priscilla, my sweet NICU nurse friend. I was like, how am I gonna do this? I have three babies. Like what if her monitor goes off? And she was like, you will know what to do. And by the way, those monitors have so many false alarms. PTSD is real. Oh yeah. Or trauma is real, you know, whatever. Yes, all this. We know this. yeah. Does that trigger you? There is. Not anymore, but for years, probably until they were about three or four, would hear our dishwasher finish and I start to like jump. Yeah. Because when we heard that monitor go off, we would drop everything and run to her crib. you know, stimulate her awake, make sure, you know, is it a false alarm? Is she not breathing? Do we need to turn her over? Do we need to, you know, pat her back? The noise is ingrained in my brain forever. I sort of feel bad telling this story. I don't want to scare anyone, but I guess I want to tell the truth of... the pros and cons, the realities, both the physical, the emotional, just truly the realities of going through. This part's not even multiples life. This is just a reality of. And any child with like mild to severe complications. Right. Any medical parent, I feel like, you know. Yeah. Yes. I also think that probably where this will really be beneficial is for other NICU moms who've been through this. It'll be validating that they're not alone. Sure. That there are other people who've have that same trigger, you know, hear that monitor noise and so no, I don't think it has gone away. That's good. Finally positive. If anyone's out there, you're in your three or less. It will go away. Hearing beeps and jumping at the sound of it. No, but I mean, the reality of when they all finally got home at Neon Monitor aside, And then we're home to just a little monitor and trusting cry and trusting that we're just in tune with every need. ⁓ And that felt hard to start with. And then you just get to know your babies. I think even non-NICU parents can relate to that. 1000%. When you leave the hospital with this like two or three day old baby, you're like, are you sure? am I qualified to take this thing home and keep it alive? Like, what? Well, and I've talked a lot about the hard stuff. ⁓ sort of feel bad about that. ⁓ But let me flip it really quick too, because I can't amount, a single term pregnancy, to your point, when you bring a baby home at two or three days old, what? Yeah, that's true. joy we had is our babies were already on a schedule. Right. The NICU did that for us. ⁓ and we continued that assembly line. Yeah. I remember you calling it the assembly line. I still But we would come over and you'd be like, all right, Mere you're on bottle. Which part do you you're on diaper. ⁓ Yeah. We knew exactly when they ate. We knew exactly when to wake them up, change their diaper, feed them, burp them, keep them awake for a little while and right back to nap. Yeah, we were just ⁓ on the schedule and it works for some doesn't for everyone. But let me tell you, multiples parents on there. Do it. Yeah, do it. ⁓ Because we knew when we could expect breathing time, our own time, just a down moment. There's not a lot because you're making bottles, cleaning. I cannot comprehend it. I think about it regularly. There were so many bottles. It was was overwhelming for me as a singleton mom. I can't tell you how many times I thought of you in my newborn days with both boys. I was like, how did Mindy do this with three? But as I've previously stated, if there was anyone who was made to do it, it was you. You're so kind. We did call in the best of the best once everyone was finally home. Yeah. Mom's on call. Yeah. I feel like someone else has already mentioned them. It's like a regular. Yes, I know. Mom's on call sponsor me because someone brings it up every episode. actually, I reached out, Laura Hunter came to our house. Yeah. That's amazing. had twins. Yeah. And Yeah, all three babies were home. So we went through our routine with her and I said, help me survive when my husband travels for work. And so she just showed me the ways that I could bathe them and feed them and survive. Not that it had to happen often, but I needed to know how to be a mom to three babies at once. And, ⁓ that was like one of the hardest lessons during their time in the NICU and when they got home. And I just remember feeling like you can't split love three ways, but your heart does expand. I totally believe that. And I don't know how. I couldn't control that, but it worked, happened. There were a few other things that we did to try and ease our life here and there. We tried to have a night nurse come in. It wasn't really for us the night she came. ⁓ she was wonderful. She was actually one of our NICU nurses. We had had like a house, like a plumbing issue. It was just bad timing. I didn't sleep that night anyways. I wasn't sleeping because I was pumping around the clock. Yeah. Night nurse just wasn't for us. Yeah. We figured out our routine, who does what and when. And and that worked for us. What is something you would say to ⁓ people who are expecting whether it's something you would anything from like a simple to ⁓ like a tool or a device or a new car, all the way to just like- A car. ⁓ All the way Three across. Probably more importantly, like what would you say to them emotionally? Like that something that helped you or stuck with you during your journey, especially in the early days as a triplet mom? ⁓ You're going deep on me. The first thing that comes to mind is trust the process, ⁓ is hard to do. ⁓ emotions are emotions, and sometimes they're hard to control. It's still in my life at eight years old. It is still some days, one day at a time, one day at a time. And pregnancy felt that way and NICU life felt that way. And I think you just really have to like embrace that, trust the process. One day at a time. And take one day at a time. But you know, like there were some things I wasn't great at that I also would probably give advice, but it's pop, call and kettle black. That's okay. Let's be honest. learn. Live and learn. accept help. More of it. However. I won't even go into all the ways that I could have done better still. ⁓ You know, in the NICU days, when you get so hung up on small wins, which is great, I also think, and actually this is not just NICU days, I want to say come home too, like, you know, we're all so ingrained to celebrate the firsts and the milestones and this and that, but. Milestones don't define outcomes. Oh, I love that. Am I saying that the right way? I think that was said perfectly. I have three eight-year-olds downstairs, probably making too much noise, who have dealt with breathing machines, apnea monitors, wearing helmets, feeding therapy, ⁓ you name it. You name it. They talked and babbled at different times. They walked at different times. ⁓ Those milestones that so big at the time. ⁓ and even comparing to other friends who delivered around the same time. They don't define where they are today. ⁓ it's so true. Ooh. It is so I need to remind that to myself often. I will also say, I've had to remind myself that NICU life not for all, but is, can be traumatic and that's valid. I try to be so tough because what else do you do? You're trying to put your best foot forward, right? I had never been a mom before this and that's all I knew. But it doesn't mean it doesn't. impact you. And I've had to think a lot about that over the years. Especially the few years that my dishwasher would finish its cycle and I jump up to check an apnea monitor and then I was like, wait, I have a three year old. Oh my gosh. But yeah, I mean, and that feeds into my like other point is you don't always have to be as strong as you think you do. message for all moms. and everyone. Yes, everyone. Yes. But definitely motherhood. mean, you, as a close friend of mine, have seen and known. I'm so thankful. I did not battle postpartum anxiety, depression, any of that. Like, I just somehow, praise the Lord, like powered through all of those early days. But around the time that the kids were two, two and a half. I think I had my first taste of anxiety, if you will. ⁓ And that was my lesson that being strong and sweeping things under the rug only hurts you in the long run. And as a mom, it's ingrained in us almost to want to everything we can to stay strong. I don't know that I have the solution yet, still at eight years in. But I do think I am reminding myself that it's okay to not be strong sometimes. It really is. And then just the coexisting feelings. Every part of my journey has been coexisting feelings. Light and dark. ⁓ for sure. Yeah. Maybe not anymore. I mean, yes, it's still hard some days and fun. It off scary and exciting. know, and those were shifted throughout the past eight years. Yeah. But it's never been just one. And I think that anyone facing, to come full circle at last, anyone facing a multiple pregnancy, a high risk journey, a NICU journey, anything scary, I think it's just accept that like. Feeling your feelings is so important. allow it to be both and all and not just one singular thing and don't feel guilt for that. It's okay if it feels scary and messy and messy and exciting and all the other things. Well, I don't want to stop talking, but I do feel like our families would probably appreciate if we came and hung out with them. Have our kids knocked on the door recently. bring the kids up, I always like to end by asking my guests to describe birth in three words. No pressure. Just like first thing that pops in your head. Well, unique is the first word. ⁓ I. ⁓ love talking birth stories with you and I've loved listening to all your other guests on your show. No two stories are the same. So true. I I realize mine's like sort of a outlier. I just love the uniqueness of every personal birth story. What is a word for All the things all at once, like all encompassing. All encompassing, yeah. Is that a good word for that? Sure, yeah. I think that speaks to how. It can feel like a lot at once and that's okay too. Yeah. Okay, so what do we have? All-encompassing. Unique. Unique. I've got to go miraculous. I have three healthy triplets that ⁓ spontaneous, fraternal, ⁓ ⁓ First ⁓ where they come from? What the heck? This is my life. ⁓ It feels surreal. Yeah, babies. Yes. That was a very long sentence. Miraculous is the word. Miraculous is the word. So many, I would say stars had to align, but so many chromosomes had to align. Stars is a little bit more, you know, whimsical. Earthy. They're miracle babies. ⁓ They're fighters. They still ⁓ You know, been... ⁓ through some things in eight years. They are strong It is a miracle. ⁓ I am just shocked that this is ⁓ my life still. miraculous, unique all encompassing. encompassing. Are those good words? And they're your words. I ⁓ cannot thank you for all of this with me. It has been ⁓ personally such a joy to about this time period and talk about your kiddos. ⁓ And I know that so women will appreciate your insight, not only from a ⁓ multiple mom perspective or a mom perspective, but just your take on motherhood and everything it entails. I personally have always appreciated your wisdom. You're the sweetest. Well, it's true. I've always loved talking to you and the fact that we're doing it in this format makes me so happy. Me too. For you and everyone else who gets a benefit. Yes. Well, thank you for having me. This has been a joy. It allowed me to reflect and dig back into eight years of memories that are so precious. And let me just remind every mom, please write your birth story down closer to your birth than eight years after the fact. That's a great way to end Let that be my lesson. Final word. All right. Well, you've been listening to the Arrivals podcast. Until next time. my name is Tristan. am years old and ⁓ my thing ⁓ is Legos. Hi, name is Zeh I am eight years old and my favorite thing is cooking Hi, I'm Morgan Zeh I'm eight years old and like sloths and hippos. for listening to the Arrivals Podcast. ⁓ So that was delivery when the babies were born, the best feeling was that they all weighed just about four pounds. Wow. Which, yeah. It's a lot of baby. Thank It was a lot of baby in body. the placentas, plus the blood. Yeah, there was a, I was carrying a lot. Yes. I felt so proud of that though, because you know, I had been working on my diet, not diet, but my nutrition. Right. And to be born at 32 weeks and still have that healthy weight, I think really helped their development. So there were good and bad things, right? know, cause four pounds is also, if I'm remembering correctly, the weight that they have to be to be discharged from the NICU. ⁓ And you know, babies typically lose weight and then gain it back. But yeah, I would say that was one of learning their weights. That birth was one of my more proud high protein paid off. So that was exciting that they were healthy weights, healthy lengths all in all, extremely healthy, what we had expected, except that they had their own premature challenges here and there. And so begins the NICU life that no one can prepare you for, even though we had tried. Let just start saying Piedmont NICU ⁓ is truly one of a kind ⁓ and every single person there. I'm so grateful. Yeah, the best. We had toured the NICU. We knew what to be prepared for. know, and I've already said the NICU is expected. It was not a shock for us. whatsoever. Like the goal was growth and development. The NICU was a step down womb. A transition. was. And we knew that. it was not without its challenges as well. Seeing them in the NICU for the first time, as full of joy as I was. also just felt weird. I was barely lifting my head up. I couldn't hold them. You're learning what you can and can't do with your own children. I was being rolled around and introduced to who's who ⁓ from nurses and doctors. simultaneously also having to learn terminology, ⁓ what equipment does what, ⁓ trying to... ⁓ Absorb like what these new processes and protocols and like what our new day-to-day? Would look like it was definitely a learning curve. Yeah, and it took some time. Yeah took the medicine wearing off I'll tell you that the fogginess was its own thing and then NICU daily life You know, we we did eventually get into a routine. ⁓ how long were you to them therefore great question so ⁓ That's probably one of the hardest parts of this whole entire journey is that they came home from the NICU with staggered discharges, which we were thankful for because, you know, you want them to grow and develop and be ready and graduate. Yeah, more or less. ⁓ But I was not prepared for my heart to need to be in three places at one time. And I physically couldn't. you know, the daily life ⁓ of NICU world, I was pumping around the clock. I was exhausted. We were sleeping at home. That might be the one benefit that everyone was reminding me of is like, rest now. Recover your body, get your sleep, trust that your babies are being cared for in the safest place by professional medical teams who know exactly what they need. We did. We leaned in on that, even though it felt weird and hard and all of things in between. But the daily life was us waking up, driving ⁓ and from the hospital ⁓ day, me pumping around the clock every three hours or as I could to get my production up. We're splitting time between babies. They weren't even all in the same room ⁓ even in the same level of NICU at ⁓ certain times. And you can't once one, I remember you telling me once one baby has come home, they can't go back to the NICU. So it's not like you could all go together. Correct. Like someone would have to stay home with the baby and then the other person would go to the NICU or you'd have to have a family member stay with the baby at home. So you could both go to the NICU together. Correct. There was like a pumping, like a mother's room that if I remember correctly, they could go in there, but still somebody needed to sit with them. So yeah, it was a juggle of again, logistics. Yeah. of who's going where and when and trying to coordinate with the NICU team and their schedules. do rounds, know, family rounds where you get your updates on each child and that's where you're learning about what we're going to try today and if they're ready to, you know, move from this to this. And that's where you're celebrating the little wins or if something scary happened overnight. If they had an apnea, you're learning, okay, you know, this happened and we're concerned about that and now we need to try this. So there were moments that were just ⁓ challenging as we transitioned, you know, both from life and then to going home.