Latest / NO FILTER / _Humiliated by Putin__ Trump frustrated with Putin amid stalled peace negotiations(MP3_160K)

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_Humiliated by Putin__ Trump frustrated with Putin amid stalled peace negotiations(MP3_160K) · NO FILTER

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelenski is accusing Russia in stalling the
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: peace process and quote words, don't work with Moscow. And
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: according to Ashley Parker's new piece for the Atlantic, it
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: sounds like it might be dawning on Donald Trump. Ashley
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Parker and Tom Nichols are still with us. So, Ashley,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: do you really think Donald Trump is evolving on Vladimir Putin?
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Yes and no, with maybe more emphasis on no in
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: this moment. Trump is legitimately frustrated with Putin for a
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: number of reasons. One is that while Trump has real
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: antipathy and sort of genuine animosity for Ukrainian President Zelenski,
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: is Zelenski agreed to a ceasefire, and Trump had sort
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: of believed that Putin and Russia would be open to
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: a ceasefire as well. But once the Ukrainians agreed, Russia
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: has not done that. They've shown no willingness towards a ceasefire.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: And you know, is someone familiar with the President's thinking
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: of explained it to me, he both feels kind of
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: humiliated about Putin quote unquote tapping him along, but also
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: he feels like we called their bluff and they're not
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: actually willing to work towards this. And then there is
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: also and again, this, to be clear, is not new,
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: but there have been photos coming out of the war
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: that are gruesome, that involve children, and we know from
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: past reporting in Trump's first term that these photos do
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: sometimes move the president. It's what got him to agree
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: to greenlight airstrikes in Syria in his first term, and
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: also to issue a rebuke, a rare rebuke against Saudi
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Arabia when he has shown photos of starving Yemeny children
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: from a Saudi blocking So we are seeing Trump be
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: more forceful now. But the interesting thing is that even
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: his frustrated, forceful response may end up benefiting Russia, because
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: he has said a couple of times, I was in
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: the Oval office when this happened, and I pressed him
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: on it. He has said, look, this isn't my war.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: I'm getting sick and tired of it. If these sides
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: won't compromise, I'm going to walk away. The United States
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: will just back out. And to be clear, that's exactly
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: what Putin wants. So in certain ways, Trump is saying Putin,
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: I'm mad at you, I'm frustrated with you, and I'm
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: just going to throw out my hands and essentially do
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: exactly what you want.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Does he not see that as a loss for himself?
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Does he not see is there anybody in his ear
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: telling him that in order to really force Vladimir Putin's hand,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: He's got an armed Ukraine, which is the one big
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: thing that Vladimir Putin doesn't want the US to continue
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: doing armed Ukraine and make Ukraine a part of NATO.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: So Trump, again, I'm just going to put this in
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: a broader historical context. There have been people since Trump
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: came to power repeatedly telling him, you know, with various
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: amounts of force and at various points, Vladimir Putin is
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: a bad guy. Vladimir Putin doesn't want to negotiate. Vladimir
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Putin invaded Ukraine with no provocation, et cetera, et cetera,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: et cetera. The way Trump sees this and this is
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: very clear. And again when we at the Atlantic went
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: in to interview him a couple of weeks ago, he
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: said as much. Again, he views this as not his war,
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: not his problem. He's frustrated by it. He believes he
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: inherited it. He believes if he had been president instead
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: of Biden, this never would have happened, and he sort
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: of either wants to get a Nobel Peace prize from
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: solving it, which seems unlikely, or he wants to wash
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: his hands of it. And if that happens to benefit
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Russia right now, that doesn't seem existentially troubling for this
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: American president.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Tom you right in the Atlantic as well.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Nothing's going to change until Vladimir Putin sees costs for
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: his actions, actual costs, not just Donald Trump stamping his
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: feet on social media, right, you.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: Knows, Ashley's pointing out right now, Donald Trump is threatening to,
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: you know, to do everything Putin wants him to do.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: There are no costs other than the policies that already exist,
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: the sanctions that already exists, the weapons that are going
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: to Ukraine. I think part of the problem here is
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: that Trump doesn't understand that for Putin, this is something deep.
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: This is a part of a deeply held belief that
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: he must control Ukraine. For Putin, everything is transactional. You know, hey,
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: get out of you know, in this war. It'll be
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: great for both of us. We'll do some business. I'll
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: get a peace prize that Trump just doesn't understand that
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: other human beings don't work that way, and that world
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: politics don't work that way. And so you know, there's nothing,
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: there's no cost to Putin to simply say yes, Donald,
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: I totally understand. We're friends. You know, we can talk anytime,
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: because that's that's what Trump things matters. Putin is an
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: accomplished you know, at this point, he is an accomplished
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: world figure who knows how to deal with other people.
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: He was a KGB agent. We say this all the time.
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: He knows how to deal with people and sort of
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: take advantage of their psychological weaknesses. But he's been the
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: president of Russia for a long time, and every time
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: the Trump administration tries to impose costs or talk about them,
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: they back off from it because who just doesn't care