Latest / Love, Happiness and Success with Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby / Daddy Issues: The Hidden Reason You're Never Good Enough | Happiness | E565

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Daddy Issues: The Hidden Reason You're Never Good Enough | Happiness | E565 · Love, Happiness and Success with Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby

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1:54
Speaker 3: For generations, we're handed this image of father as ruler, right?
1:59
Speaker 3: The protector, the disciplinarian, the provider, strong, stoic, silent. He
2:15
Speaker 3: was someone that you were supposed to look up to, fear, often,
2:21
Speaker 3: but not someone you necessarily were supposed to know.
2:24
Speaker 1: If you've ever wondered why you over-function in relationships, why
2:28
Speaker 1: you can't ask for help, or why you keep ending
2:32
Speaker 1: up with people who can't quite show up for you,
2:35
Speaker 1: there might be an answer way deep back in your
2:39
Speaker 1: history related to your relationship with your father.
2:58
Speaker 3: I was the fourth daughter of a father who absolutely
3:01
Speaker 3: should have had sons. He was an incredible athlete. He
3:04
Speaker 3: went to college on a full ride. He was a
3:06
Speaker 3: very skilled golfer, very successful white collar guy, had no
3:12
Speaker 3: interest in us at all.
3:16
Speaker 1: And that's what we're diving into today with my very
3:18
Speaker 1: special guest, Terry Cole.
3:21
Speaker 3: What I learned myself was that men were people to
3:24
Speaker 3: be managed and manipulated.
3:27
Speaker 1: Terri is a psychotherapist who's been in practice for decades.
3:30
Speaker 1: She's the author of Boundary Boss, Too Much, and now
3:34
Speaker 1: a new book called The Father Wound.
3:40
Speaker 2: Terri, welcome. We have so much to dive into.
3:44
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, Lisa. Daddy issues. Such a loaded term.
3:49
Speaker 1: Where do we even begin to wrap our heads around
3:53
Speaker 1: the impact of this primary relationship?
3:59
Speaker 3: Well, I think there's some good questions we can start with,
4:02
Speaker 3: which is why everyone talks about mother issues. And the
4:07
Speaker 3: only time father issues come up is like you said,
4:10
Speaker 3: almost as a joke, like, oh, she has daddy issues, right?
4:13
Speaker 3: But not from a really from a psychotherapeutic lens. So
4:17
Speaker 3: having a father wound, maybe let's establish what it is.
4:21
Speaker 3: According to me, this is a psychological and emotional injury.
4:25
Speaker 3: That stems from growing up with a father who, or
4:28
Speaker 3: a father figure, didn't have to be your father if
4:30
Speaker 3: you were raised by a grandfather, foster dad, whoever, who
4:33
Speaker 3: was absent, abusive, emotionally unavailable to you, emotionally unattuned to you.
4:39
Speaker 3: They could have been addicted. They could have been a workaholic.
4:42
Speaker 3: They could have left you. They could have died. There
4:44
Speaker 3: are so many avenues that bring us to the same juncture,
4:49
Speaker 3: which is having an unhealed father wound as a grown-up
4:53
Speaker 3: woman in this world. So at its core, a father
4:59
Speaker 3: wound is a worthiness wound. It's somehow we learned in
5:03
Speaker 3: childhood that we weren't exactly good enough the way that
5:07
Speaker 3: we were, that we needed to be different or better
5:09
Speaker 3: or prettier or more accomplished or thinner to be worthy
5:13
Speaker 3: of love and consideration. So now you have this connection
5:17
Speaker 3: between working for love and this lack of often inherent value,
5:24
Speaker 3: this feeling of like, I'm inherently worthy of good treatment.
5:29
Speaker 3: So that's what a father wound is. And for me,
5:34
Speaker 3: I saw this over and over again in my clinical
5:37
Speaker 3: practice that I'd been in the trenches for almost 30
5:40
Speaker 3: years where it wasn't like a few people. It wasn't
5:44
Speaker 3: some people. It was so, so, so, so many. And
5:47
Speaker 3: I predominantly treat Women. And often, these are very high-functioning women, right?
5:54
Speaker 3: Because in so many ways, you just attract people who
5:59
Speaker 3: resonate with you and your own life experience. So I
6:02
Speaker 3: like to, and I refer to a father wound as
6:05
Speaker 3: an invisible wound often. Because when you're highly successful and
6:09
Speaker 3: highly capable, nobody's like, I hope Lisa's okay. They're all like,
6:13
Speaker 3: she's fine.
6:15
Speaker 1: Why?
6:15
Speaker 3: Because she's always fine.
6:21
Speaker 1: I have a feeling, Terry, this is going to turn
6:23
Speaker 1: into my own therapy session by the time we're done.
6:24
Speaker 4: Let's go.
6:25
Speaker 2: Looking forward to it. Yeah, exactly.
6:27
Speaker 3: Yeah. High functioning. That we become the people that a
6:30
Speaker 3: lot of people come to. We are the problem solvers.
6:33
Speaker 3: We're very crafty. We're smart.
6:35
Speaker 2: We're strategic.
6:36
Speaker 3: We are doing the thing. But often, and I've seen
6:39
Speaker 3: this in my practice, being highly capable and highly successful
6:44
Speaker 3: makes the wound even more invisible.
6:46
Speaker 1: Right.
6:47
Speaker 3: Because you're like, how bad could it be? Look at
6:49
Speaker 3: my life. I'm making tons of money. I'm in charge
6:51
Speaker 3: of everything. Everyone comes to me. And that doesn't mean
6:54
Speaker 3: you're not suffering. And it doesn't mean you're not exhausted.
6:57
Speaker 3: And it doesn't mean you're not resentful. And these are
6:59
Speaker 3: all the things that if we continue to walk around
7:01
Speaker 3: with an unhealed father wound, they're basically inevitable.
7:06
Speaker 1: Wow.
7:08
Speaker 5: So.
7:09
Speaker 1: Much to dig into. And also, I just want to
7:12
Speaker 1: say for the benefit of our friends here with us
7:15
Speaker 1: today on Love, Happiness, and Successful, tuning in. So Terry,
7:18
Speaker 1: I heard you say that primarily your practice has been
7:22
Speaker 1: centered on women. And I just want to say out loud,
7:25
Speaker 1: I work with a lot of men, honestly, and have
7:27
Speaker 1: met so many men who are also carrying their own
7:32
Speaker 1: wounds and unfinished emotional business related to their relationships with
7:36
Speaker 1: their dad that is just as impactful. And so I
7:39
Speaker 1: hope to represent that perspective over the course of our
7:42
Speaker 1: conversation and just know that this is not intended to
7:45
Speaker 1: be by and for women necessarily. I so value your
7:49
Speaker 1: perspective around what happens to women. And I have to
7:52
Speaker 1: tell you, I could relate so much to what you
7:54
Speaker 1: were saying, Terry, around seeming like.
7:56
Speaker 2: I have it together.
7:57
Speaker 1: I'm always surprised because people will tell me like, you
7:59
Speaker 1: seem like you have it all together.
8:01
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, if you only knew, right?
8:04
Speaker 1: And I probably fit the profile of a lot of
8:06
Speaker 1: women that you work with. My dad is loving, tried hard.
8:11
Speaker 1: I Very critical dude with very strong opinions about the
8:17
Speaker 1: way things should be, including me.
8:19
Speaker 4: And, you know, it influences you. So you kind of
8:22
Speaker 4: have to feel like you have it all buttoned up.
8:24
Speaker 3: And that makes it hard. And I think that it's
8:25
Speaker 3: important that because this can be a barrier to entry
8:29
Speaker 3: to doing this work for people. So let's talk about it. Yeah.
8:31
Speaker 3: You can love your father very much. You could have
8:35
Speaker 3: had a father who did the best they could. And actually,
8:37
Speaker 3: you could have had a great father. And here's the thing.
8:40
Speaker 3: We were all raised in a patriarchy. And if you
8:44
Speaker 3: look at who's the original bad daddy, it is the patriarchy.
8:48
Speaker 3: The original bad daddy is the patriarchy because this is a,
8:52
Speaker 3: it is the water we swim in that women are
8:55
Speaker 3: second-class citizens, that they're less than, that there's the lesser sex.
8:59
Speaker 3: I mean, listen, this is literally a phrase, right? The
9:02
Speaker 3: weaker sex, which is a joke. But this is real.
9:05
Speaker 3: And as much as times have, you know, yes, times
9:09
Speaker 3: have changed, but you have to think about it, Lisa.
9:11
Speaker 3: Women couldn't get alone without a male cosigner until 1986.
9:19
Speaker 2: Wild.
9:20
Speaker 1: I think that so many men are equally impacted by
9:24
Speaker 1: the patriarchy and by sexism because it defines who they
9:27
Speaker 1: need to be in this societal landscape that can be
9:30
Speaker 1: so limiting to them and I think prevent them from
9:34
Speaker 1: being the full range of who they are really capable of.
9:38
Speaker 3: The patriarchy didn't do any favors to men. And men
9:41
Speaker 3: absolutely have father wounds. And from my perspective, the reason
9:47
Speaker 3: when people are like, well, why didn't you write this
9:48
Speaker 3: book for everyone? I'm like, because first of all, men
9:51
Speaker 3: can absolutely learn a ton. You know, I probably 15%
9:55
Speaker 3: of my audience is probably male. But here's the thing.
9:59
Speaker 3: How fathers. father-sons, how they're supposed to, what they're supposed
10:03
Speaker 3: to teach them is different than how fathers father daughters.
10:08
Speaker 3: How they're supposed to, whether they do or not, right? Like,
10:11
Speaker 3: what are we looking for? So my feeling is, of course,
10:16
Speaker 3: with the patriarchy having this outdated, you think about people
10:19
Speaker 3: who were raised in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and the outs,
10:23
Speaker 3: let's just say, there's still an outdated idea of like,
10:28
Speaker 3: you know, we were handed this, generations were handed this
10:32
Speaker 3: image of father as ruler, right? The protector, the disciplinarian,
10:36
Speaker 3: the provider, strong, stoic, silent, right? He was someone that
10:41
Speaker 3: you were supposed to look up to, fear, often, but
10:45
Speaker 3: not someone you necessarily were supposed to know. You know,
10:49
Speaker 3: we have a lot of comedians talking about this. And
10:52
Speaker 3: in my own life, I had three older sisters. I
10:54
Speaker 3: was the fourth daughter of a father who absolutely should
10:58
Speaker 3: have had sons. He was an incredible athlete. He went
11:00
Speaker 3: to college on a full ride. He was a very
11:03
Speaker 3: skilled golfer, had very successful white collar guy, had no
11:07
Speaker 3: interest in us now, but he was a fiscal provider, right?
11:13
Speaker 3: So he was dutiful in ways. And my parents got
11:17
Speaker 3: divorced when I was 13, but My point is what
11:20
Speaker 3: I learned myself was that men were people to be
11:23
Speaker 3: managed and manipulated. Never people to have an open hearted
11:29
Speaker 3: conversation with because they were not people you could trust.
11:32
Speaker 3: It was always the women you could trust, but you
11:36
Speaker 3: couldn't trust men because they were with my father. He
11:40
Speaker 3: made the money. And so in some ways he had
11:42
Speaker 3: the power. My parents got married in 1958 and my
11:45
Speaker 3: mother was pregnant.
11:48
Speaker 1: Right.
11:48
Speaker 3: So at a time when you were pretty psyched that
11:50
Speaker 3: that person was going to marry you because it would
11:52
Speaker 3: have been socially like social suicide to be pregnant out
11:57
Speaker 3: of wedlock in 1958. And there wasn't choices then to
12:01
Speaker 3: decide to end a pregnancy. So we're talking about a
12:05
Speaker 3: different in a way, a different time. But so much
12:08
Speaker 3: of those old images have stayed the same.
12:13
Speaker 2: That's so interesting.
12:14
Speaker 1: Well, and it can take so many different forms. Like
12:17
Speaker 1: just since we're sharing, like my dad was a feminist
12:21
Speaker 1: and my dad was actually in some ways the emotionally
12:25
Speaker 1: safer person in my house. And still though, there are
12:30
Speaker 1: ways that I'm so aware that relationship shaped me.
12:33
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
12:35
Speaker 1: So this is a multidimensional experience here. But, you know,
12:39
Speaker 1: for somebody, our friends listening to this and thinking, I
12:42
Speaker 1: think that my relationship with my dad and the historical
12:45
Speaker 1: patterns that I developed because of those experiences is still present.
12:48
Speaker 2: How do I get into this?
12:50
Speaker 5: How should somebody begin to become aware if daddy issues,
12:57
Speaker 5: for lack of a better word, are present and where
13:00
Speaker 5: they need to go in order to understand this dimension
13:04
Speaker 5: of self?
13:05
Speaker 3: I think we should start with how it presents in
13:07
Speaker 3: your grown-up life, right? Like what does it actually look
13:10
Speaker 3: like in your life? So suffering from perfectionism, feeling unworthy,
13:17
Speaker 3: like chronic self-doubt, people-pleasing. Because here's the thing, even if
13:20
Speaker 3: you're successful, because I know this, I've done both sides
13:23
Speaker 3: of this success, where I was successful very young as
13:25
Speaker 3: a talent agent negotiating contracts for supermodels and celebrities before
13:29
Speaker 3: I became a psychotherapist. And I was literally leaping. up
13:33
Speaker 3: the Hollywood ladder, like just so ambitious. And that ambition
13:39
Speaker 3: is something we should unpack, certainly, because not all ambition
13:44
Speaker 3: is made the same. And I remember my therapist, when
13:47
Speaker 3: I really started deciding that I was going to do
13:50
Speaker 3: this father wound stuff, I didn't call it that, but
13:52
Speaker 3: I'd been avoiding unpacking my relationship with my father, I
13:54
Speaker 3: think for years, because I minimized it. I was like,
13:57
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter. My mother was great. He was whatever.
14:00
Speaker 3: Like he paid for college. Yay me. That was it.
14:02
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Exactly. Who needs him? My
14:05
Speaker 3: therapist had said to me, she was like, oh, let's
14:07
Speaker 3: talk about ambition. And I was like, okay. And then
14:10
Speaker 3: she was like, all right, so let me ask you
14:12
Speaker 3: a question. Do you think you can make the distinction
14:14
Speaker 3: between are you running towards something or is it possible
14:21
Speaker 3: you might be running away from something?
14:26
Speaker 2: Power question.
14:29
Speaker 3: It was the latter. It was running away because I
14:33
Speaker 3: felt that my father wanted a boy. I was his
14:36
Speaker 3: last chance. So I was the ultimate disappointment, gender-wise. So
14:41
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm going to be so successful that
14:44
Speaker 3: I'll be more successful than any stupid son he could
14:46
Speaker 3: have ever had. So it won't matter. This is how
14:49
Speaker 3: I'm going to even the playing field is I'm just
14:52
Speaker 3: full speed ahead. That's what I'm doing because that's what
14:54
Speaker 3: mattered to my father was... achievement, success, good grades. Like
14:58
Speaker 3: this is the only time there was any real interaction.
15:01
Speaker 3: So I was like, okay, well, that's my only avenue
15:04
Speaker 3: to having a connection to him. But what I realized through,
15:07
Speaker 3: and then really obviously Bev and I, my therapist for many,
15:10
Speaker 3: many years, we unpacked what did it mean? And it
15:14
Speaker 3: was that my success was like proof of value. But
15:19
Speaker 3: the problem with success like that is that you're only
15:22
Speaker 3: as valuable as your last success. When you don't feel
15:25
Speaker 3: like you have inherent value, it's exhausting. You're like, now
15:29
Speaker 3: the goalpost is always moving. There's got to be more.
15:31
Speaker 3: So now another, a more famous client, more money, better deal,
15:34
Speaker 3: whatever it is. Back to the symptoms. But I wanted
15:38
Speaker 3: to say that because I feel like a lot of
15:40
Speaker 3: times people think that success means you figured it all out.
15:45
Speaker 3: You're doing great. It just means you're making money. But
15:48
Speaker 3: the question is, what is your internal experience? And on
15:52
Speaker 3: the other side of healing, being in the process of
15:54
Speaker 3: healing this wound is success. I'm doing what I'm doing
15:59
Speaker 3: for joy, for satisfaction, with expansion, with creativity, with flow,
16:07
Speaker 3: with security, which is very different than doing it from fear,
16:11
Speaker 3: which is what really everything was driven by. Fear of
16:15
Speaker 3: not being good enough, fear of being kicked out of
16:16
Speaker 3: the tribe, fear of being abandoned by boyfriends, by anybody
16:21
Speaker 3: for that matter. Okay, back to let's just do our
16:24
Speaker 3: list and then we can unpack them.
16:27
Speaker 1: No, this is so interesting, though. But you're saying that
16:29
Speaker 1: one of the big signals is this feeling like you
16:33
Speaker 1: have to prove yourself all the time. And that if
16:37
Speaker 1: you don't have something to be like, look, see, I
16:40
Speaker 1: am valuable and important.
16:42
Speaker 2: It almost feels like your identity collapses.
16:44
Speaker 3: Correct.
16:44
Speaker 1: That you don't have an internal sense of worth to stabilize.
16:47
Speaker 3: Exactly right.
16:48
Speaker 2: It has to be external.
16:49
Speaker 1: Yes.
16:50
Speaker 3: No, that's exactly it.
16:51
Speaker 2: That's one of the big signs.
16:52
Speaker 3: Perfectly said. So feeling unworthy, which looks like, but also
16:56
Speaker 3: people pleasing, having a harsh inner critic that makes you
17:00
Speaker 3: question your worth, compare and despair syndrome with other people,
17:04
Speaker 3: also having dysregulated emotions, right? So either having anxiety or
17:09
Speaker 3: it could even go the other way where it can
17:10
Speaker 3: just be numbness. feeling overwhelmed by what you're doing, but
17:15
Speaker 3: you're still doing it. Because that's another thing. My people
17:19
Speaker 3: have a tendency to just be like me, just keep
17:21
Speaker 3: going no matter what. If you just don't quit, you
17:23
Speaker 3: can't fail, right? Because you haven't stopped. Self-abandonment is a
17:27
Speaker 3: huge indicator of an unhealed father wound that I've seen.
17:31
Speaker 3: And this is just a tendency to prioritize other people's wants,
17:35
Speaker 3: needs over our own. It impacts, it could be your body,
17:39
Speaker 3: your time, your finances, right? Your emotional well-being. Because it's
17:43
Speaker 3: exhausting on your own list. Having crappy boundaries is another one.
17:49
Speaker 1: Well, and I know you talk so much about boundaries.
17:51
Speaker 1: And I'd love to get your perspective on that because you've.
17:54
Speaker 2: Done so much work.
17:55
Speaker 1: But the relationship between, you know, this type of, gosh,
17:59
Speaker 1: father wound. And then this orientation towards.
18:03
Speaker 2: Abandonment of the self.
18:05
Speaker 1: What is the relationship there? How does that turn into self-abandonment?
18:10
Speaker 3: If the person who was supposed to protect you and
18:14
Speaker 3: think about you and be attuned to you and worry
18:17
Speaker 3: about you couldn't, didn't, wasn't, the message is so clear
18:24
Speaker 3: unconsciously that perhaps you are not someone worth protecting. So
18:30
Speaker 3: it's way more important when you learn that to make
18:35
Speaker 3: sure other people are comfortable, make sure other people are happy.
18:39
Speaker 3: You know, one, what I did, because there wasn't a
18:42
Speaker 3: lot of information out there, at least on this, honestly,
18:44
Speaker 3: there was tons of stuff and tons about mothers and
18:47
Speaker 3: attachment theory, of course, because researchers looked where they expected
18:51
Speaker 3: to find problems. No one expected fathers to be attuned
18:54
Speaker 3: to their kids. They were like helping out at home,
18:56
Speaker 3: quote unquote. They were babysitting. their own children babysitting. So
19:01
Speaker 3: when you think about this, if this person doesn't think
19:06
Speaker 3: you're worth protecting, how does that impact what you think
19:11
Speaker 3: about yourself? And it just does. And I think that
19:16
Speaker 3: this whole thing about attachment theory too, which I talk
19:19
Speaker 3: about in the book, the conventional wisdom says you have
19:22
Speaker 3: one primary attachment style, let's say.
19:26
Speaker 1: Yes.
19:27
Speaker 3: And the internet just decided this was like a hard
19:29
Speaker 3: science and anyone in the business knows.
19:31
Speaker 5: It is not.
19:32
Speaker 3: But it is value, right? There is value to understanding
19:36
Speaker 3: our tendency, our relational tendencies, right? Because then we can
19:39
Speaker 3: do something about them. But what I learned and what
19:43
Speaker 3: I was going to say before, my God, my brain
19:44
Speaker 3: is dead, is that because there wasn't a lot of
19:48
Speaker 3: research out there, what I did is I went to
19:49
Speaker 3: my community. and I gathered 650 women who were self-identified
19:53
Speaker 3: as having father wounds. And I went to the source
19:56
Speaker 3: of like, how did this affect you? So one of
19:59
Speaker 3: the areas that it really affected was sex. Sex, sensuality, sexuality.
20:07
Speaker 3: Where And this is where the self-abandonment, see, I was
20:10
Speaker 3: getting all the way around the barn to come back
20:12
Speaker 3: to self-abandonment because that was my point I wanted to make.
20:14
Speaker 5: I love it.
20:15
Speaker 3: Which is that the self-abandonment piece, even sexually, they were like,
20:20
Speaker 3: who could worry about my own pleasure or my own orgasm, right?
20:24
Speaker 3: I just wanted my partner to be satisfied. And if
20:28
Speaker 3: they were, then it was fine. The same management that
20:34
Speaker 3: high functioning codependence, which this is another sign of having
20:38
Speaker 3: a father wound, is we're doing all the things for
20:40
Speaker 3: all the people, controlling the shit out of everything, doing
20:43
Speaker 3: our very best to do that because we don't trust.
20:46
Speaker 3: And if we're not in the head of it, sort of, right?
20:50
Speaker 3: We're worried about how other people feel and what they're
20:52
Speaker 3: doing in their lives. And we can't stop auto advice
20:55
Speaker 3: giving because we really just don't want anyone to have
20:58
Speaker 3: any problems. This is part of the process. But you
21:01
Speaker 3: can see how hard it would be to be in
21:04
Speaker 3: a vulnerable receiving position in sexually or, or anyway. So
21:09
Speaker 3: we're going to get to that because the next one
21:11
Speaker 3: is this hyper independence that comes along with having an
21:16
Speaker 3: unhealed father.
21:16
Speaker 1: It's so interesting because like we had, it sounds like
21:19
Speaker 1: we had different genres of debt, like just the way
21:22
Speaker 1: that you described your debt, very different from mine. But still,
21:25
Speaker 1: like so much of what you're describing, like I can
21:27
Speaker 1: still relate to personally. And I'm sure that a lot
21:29
Speaker 1: of our friends listening can as well. This idea of
21:32
Speaker 1: hyper independence. I'm fine thinking more about other people than.
21:35
Speaker 3: You are about yourself. And that's fascinating. Overgiving, overfunctioning. Again,
21:40
Speaker 3: think about codependency, any kind. So I coined a phrase,
21:44
Speaker 3: high functioning codependency, which is what my second book was about.
21:47
Speaker 3: Because what, the codependency, the way that we knew it
21:52
Speaker 3: in the industry, didn't fit my clients. And the thing is,
21:55
Speaker 3: when I would bring up codependency to them, because I
21:58
Speaker 3: was looking at a codependent relational pattern, they're literally telling me,
22:02
Speaker 3: and I would say, oh, that's, that, okay, so there's
22:05
Speaker 3: a codependent piece there.
22:06
Speaker 1: And just to define our terms really quickly for people
22:08
Speaker 1: who aren't familiar with that.
22:09
Speaker 2: So codependency in.
22:10
Speaker 1: Very broad strokes is over-functioning in a way that enables
22:15
Speaker 1: somebody else to under-function essentially. So you're like supporting somebody
22:20
Speaker 1: else's ability to kind of fly under the radar is.
22:23
Speaker 2: Maybe a simple way to put it.
22:24
Speaker 1: So you see it a lot in like addictions, recovery,
22:27
Speaker 1: you know, one person is the alcoholic, the other codependent
22:30
Speaker 1: person is over-functioning, like calling their boss and telling them
22:33
Speaker 1: that they're sick, like to hide them.
22:35
Speaker 3: Exactly. Thank you.
22:36
Speaker 1: Yeah.
22:36
Speaker 3: And my own definition of high function codependency is where
22:39
Speaker 3: you are overly invested in the feeling states, the outcomes,
22:43
Speaker 3: the circumstances, the finances, the careers of the people in
22:46
Speaker 3: your life to the detriment of your own internal peace.
22:52
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. To the detriment of your own internal peace. Right.
22:57
Speaker 1: So it's not just helping and being supportive. It is
23:01
Speaker 1: actually taking a toll on you.
23:03
Speaker 2: You're worse off.
23:04
Speaker 1: Yes.
23:05
Speaker 3: And you're also likely trampling other people's boundaries in the process.
23:11
Speaker 3: You're like, I'm just helping.
23:12
Speaker 2: Actually, wait, wait.
23:14
Speaker 1: Yes. Hold on.
23:15
Speaker 2: We need to take a super quick break.
23:17
Speaker 1: And so you're saying that this whole pattern makes people
23:20
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23:23
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25:44
Speaker 1: My friends, we are back with Terry Cole, psychotherapist and
25:48
Speaker 1: author of the new book, Father Wound.
25:51
Speaker 4: We are talking about how our old relationship patterns with
25:56
Speaker 4: our dad can show up in our lives as adults,
26:00
Speaker 4: the consequences of that, and how to break free.
26:03
Speaker 1: So Terry, right before we took a break, you were
26:06
Speaker 1: about to tell us how having these father wounds can
26:09
Speaker 1: lead us to not intentionally, but still trample on the
26:15
Speaker 1: boundaries of other people.
26:17
Speaker 2: And I cannot wait to hear more.
26:18
Speaker 1: Okay.
26:18
Speaker 3: So when you're a high functioning codependent, right? We did
26:21
Speaker 3: find that before the break. You are overly invested in
26:25
Speaker 3: what's going on with other people. So we have a
26:26
Speaker 3: lot of external focus, a lot of what's going on
26:29
Speaker 3: with you. And we are auto advice givers often. Someone
26:34
Speaker 3: comes to you with a problem and you're like, I
26:36
Speaker 3: have the perfect oncologist. I have the perfect person for this.
26:38
Speaker 3: I just looked this up. I have a book I'm
26:39
Speaker 3: going to send you. I underlined, I have, we can't
26:42
Speaker 3: stop solving problems for other people when they have, even
26:46
Speaker 3: when they haven't asked us to. So that, whether you
26:50
Speaker 3: think of it that way or not, is trampling on
26:53
Speaker 3: the other person's sovereignty, right? Everyone has the right to
26:58
Speaker 3: succeed and fail, right? To thrive and to flail. But
27:03
Speaker 3: if you're a high-functioning codependent, we do not like people
27:06
Speaker 3: flailing in our vicinity. Please don't, right? We like things
27:11
Speaker 3: to run the way they're supposed to run. If you're
27:13
Speaker 3: in pain, because what happens is, many of us who
27:17
Speaker 3: have unhealed father wounds or you're in recovery, we are
27:20
Speaker 3: super empaths. So other people's feelings absolutely impact us. So
27:28
Speaker 3: our desire, like any form of codependency, regular, you know,
27:33
Speaker 3: Melody Beatty, codependent, no more codependency where you're dealing with
27:36
Speaker 3: addiction or Terry Cole's high functioning codependency where you're dealing
27:39
Speaker 3: with everything. It is an overt or a covert bid
27:45
Speaker 3: to control other people's outcomes. So I love you and
27:50
Speaker 3: I don't want you to be in pain. It's like
27:53
Speaker 3: if your partner comes home, you're in a great mood.
27:56
Speaker 3: Your partner comes home from work and they're in a
27:57
Speaker 3: bad mood. How quickly does their bad mood become your
28:03
Speaker 3: problem to fix. Same thing. Your best friend calls you, right?
28:06
Speaker 3: With an issue. You're like, how did I want you
28:09
Speaker 3: to check your urgency? You guys watching and listening. Think
28:12
Speaker 3: about the last time someone you love called you with
28:15
Speaker 3: a problem. How quickly did you take full ownership of
28:20
Speaker 3: that problem? And I want to make a distinction that's important,
28:24
Speaker 3: which is that I'm not saying your best friend calls
28:27
Speaker 3: and they're in pain and Obviously, if I'm doing, I
28:30
Speaker 3: will step away from what I'm doing. I will say,
28:32
Speaker 3: how can I best support you? That's not the same
28:37
Speaker 3: as immediately getting into fix it mode where you're like,
28:41
Speaker 3: and we think we're doing that out of love and
28:43
Speaker 3: partially we are, but we're really doing that because that
28:47
Speaker 3: person's pain is causing us pain and we want our
28:50
Speaker 3: pain to stop. Does that make sense? I get that.
28:55
Speaker 1: Yeah.
28:56
Speaker 2: And I can relate.
28:56
Speaker 1: And I think especially when I was younger, I can
28:59
Speaker 1: absolutely identify with that. But so interesting what you were saying.
29:02
Speaker 1: And I'm almost wondering, how many therapists have daddy issues
29:07
Speaker 1: that drive us into this? Well, you were saying about
29:10
Speaker 1: the empath part and really being able to have that
29:13
Speaker 1: mind sight and understand how other people feel. I will
29:17
Speaker 1: say though, and maybe, and I don't know, I'd be
29:20
Speaker 1: interested to hear your perspective on the path to changing
29:24
Speaker 1: this response inside of yourself. I think that because of
29:27
Speaker 1: my work as a psychologist, I am now very, very
29:31
Speaker 1: comfortable with people being in their dark emotions. And I
29:35
Speaker 1: really value that. And I don't try to change that
29:37
Speaker 1: for them. And I think that that's helped me create
29:40
Speaker 1: some distance around like needing to emotionally manage other people.
29:44
Speaker 1: Although I can definitely like step in to that if I,
29:48
Speaker 1: but this, this tendency to make other people, people's problems,
29:52
Speaker 1: your responsibility to manage and fix and try to change
29:56
Speaker 1: how they feel for them is is a real sign here.
30:00
Speaker 1: And is that, would you say because of historical life
30:03
Speaker 1: experiences of seeing other people manage.
30:06
Speaker 2: Dad and dad?
30:07
Speaker 3: Yes.
30:08
Speaker 2: And that's how we handled the man in the house.
30:10
Speaker 3: And from so many angles, at least like part of
30:13
Speaker 3: what matters in this book and in this whole conversation
30:17
Speaker 3: about father wounds is what I care about is what
30:21
Speaker 3: is happening in the lives of women. That's my audience, right?
30:26
Speaker 3: The women, That's right. So meaning what is happening that
30:31
Speaker 3: is painful? What is happening that is unsatisfying and making
30:36
Speaker 3: the connection? Because listen, coaching will tell you, well, you
30:40
Speaker 3: just change your mind and you can just do this
30:42
Speaker 3: and you could just do that. As a psychotherapist for
30:44
Speaker 3: almost 30 years, I know we have to go back
30:48
Speaker 3: in time because there are things that need to be
30:53
Speaker 3: acknowledged and integrated into the experiences of your life. And
30:58
Speaker 3: we were taught to minimize what we experience. We were taught,
31:01
Speaker 3: if your father provided a roof over your head, you
31:03
Speaker 3: should be grateful. No, you doesn't have to be perfect.
31:05
Speaker 3: And I'm not saying anyone has to be perfect. All
31:07
Speaker 3: I'm saying is that for once in our lives, can
31:10
Speaker 3: this just be about us? Can we realize that we
31:13
Speaker 3: can tell the truth about what we experienced, about what
31:16
Speaker 3: we didn't, didn't get, and not have it be about
31:20
Speaker 3: anyone else? Just about us, our young selves, so that
31:23
Speaker 3: we can integrate these experiences into which will give us
31:27
Speaker 3: the power to release ourselves from unsatisfying patterns that don't
31:33
Speaker 3: work for us, but we cannot stop them. Because here's
31:35
Speaker 3: the thing. If you compulsively fix other people's problems, if you,
31:42
Speaker 3: you know, people will get pushed back on the internet
31:44
Speaker 3: being like, Terry, maybe I'm just a nice person. Hey,
31:47
Speaker 3: I have no doubt you are a nice person. And
31:51
Speaker 3: if you can't not do it, it is not a choice.
31:56
Speaker 3: It is a compulsion. So you can frame it any
31:58
Speaker 3: way you want. But the truth is, if there's no space,
32:02
Speaker 3: anything that you are consciously choosing, who am I to
32:06
Speaker 3: say whether you should or shouldn't do that? What I
32:07
Speaker 3: care about is what you are compulsively doing that is
32:11
Speaker 3: not in your highest and best for what you want
32:13
Speaker 3: to create in your life. So again, I think acknowledging
32:18
Speaker 3: what happened, those childhood experiences, which I walk you through.
32:21
Speaker 3: One of the first things we do in the book
32:23
Speaker 3: is we unpack your downloaded father wound blueprint because there
32:28
Speaker 3: is absolutely no one size fits all. And in anything psychologically,
32:33
Speaker 3: it is so unique. So what I do in this book,
32:35
Speaker 3: this is not a book that you read. It's a
32:37
Speaker 3: book that you do, right? You read it and you
32:39
Speaker 3: do it.
32:40
Speaker 2: Nice.
32:41
Speaker 3: I love it.
32:41
Speaker 2: The experiential approach.
32:43
Speaker 3: I can share a story with you and I'm happy too,
32:45
Speaker 3: but that's not the same as you going, But what
32:48
Speaker 3: do I need to ask myself? So I always say,
32:51
Speaker 3: I'm nobody's guru, but I certainly am a damn good
32:53
Speaker 3: GPS to get you to the answers that you need
32:58
Speaker 3: within you to spark this liberation from things that no
33:02
Speaker 3: longer serve you. Because so much of this shit is unconsciously,
33:05
Speaker 3: and you know it, right? We unconsciously attract, right? People
33:09
Speaker 3: are like, how does your father wound play out in
33:11
Speaker 3: your romantic relationships?
33:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, that, you know, how it impacts our intimate partnerships.
33:17
Speaker 1: Like you started talking about sexuality earlier, but I'm so
33:20
Speaker 1: interested to know what you've seen around how it impacts
33:24
Speaker 1: romantic relationships, marriages.
33:26
Speaker 3: I do two chapters in the book, one completely dedicated
33:30
Speaker 3: to romantic relationships and one to all the other relationships
33:34
Speaker 3: in our lives and how they're impacted by an unhealed wound.
33:38
Speaker 3: So let's go to the romantic stuff. What happens? Well,
33:41
Speaker 3: Catherine Obau would say, We repeat what we do not repair.
33:47
Speaker 3: This is true in romantic relationships. Freud would call it
33:50
Speaker 3: repetition compulsion, right?
33:52
Speaker 2: Carl Jung had an iteration.
33:53
Speaker 3: Yes, he sure did. I call it repeating relationship reality.
33:57
Speaker 3: So we all have our own way of describing that
34:02
Speaker 3: you don't attract what necessarily you want. You attract what
34:07
Speaker 3: is familiar. And we often mistake familiarity with chemistry. Right.
34:13
Speaker 3: Where we're like, oh, what happens is unconsciously. So for me,
34:17
Speaker 3: I was attracting super unavailable men. My father had the
34:20
Speaker 3: emotional IQ of a sneaker and no and barely a connection. Right.
34:25
Speaker 3: So I was attracting men who were emotionally unavailable and
34:31
Speaker 3: it would be so painful and I would get out
34:33
Speaker 3: of the bed and cry at night. I was like
34:36
Speaker 3: having this whole dramatic, you know, in my 20s experience.
34:39
Speaker 3: Over and over again. And then when I started getting
34:41
Speaker 3: a little bit healthier in therapy, I'd stopped drinking when
34:43
Speaker 3: I was 19, got into therapy immediately. And I was
34:47
Speaker 3: traveling for being an agent and just traveling because I
34:50
Speaker 3: wanted to. And I said to my therapist, Bev, I
34:53
Speaker 3: really feel like I'm changing who I'm attracting. It's so exciting.
34:58
Speaker 3: Now I'm attracting all of these very warm and affectionate
35:03
Speaker 3: and romantic European men. Sounds very special. And then she's like,
35:08
Speaker 3: but Terri... All of these men you've been dating live
35:12
Speaker 3: on other continents. So how are they available? I thought,
35:17
Speaker 3: because they were emotionally available, she was like, hello. She
35:21
Speaker 3: was like, well, how do you feel? And I was like,
35:23
Speaker 3: the same. I feel lonely. I'm left longing. It's the
35:27
Speaker 3: same thing. So it can be very sneaky, even when
35:30
Speaker 3: you start working on it.
35:31
Speaker 1: But smoking a cigarette.
35:33
Speaker 3: Exactly. So we start the repeating process.
35:39
Speaker 2: Realities, right?
35:40
Speaker 3: How do we shift? Because you may say, I would never,
35:44
Speaker 3: ever date someone like my father. And then find yourself
35:47
Speaker 3: in a relationship with someone like your father. So understand
35:49
Speaker 3: that that's part of the human condition. So it's raising
35:53
Speaker 3: awareness is the first pillar of my five pillars of transformation.
35:56
Speaker 3: And that's what we're really talking about is you must
35:59
Speaker 3: look at, and I walk you through it in the book,
36:01
Speaker 3: your romantic history. We do all kinds of stuff about
36:04
Speaker 3: the childhood. Yes, very important. We're unpacking these experiences. so
36:08
Speaker 3: that you're looking at, oh, this makes sense. But we
36:12
Speaker 3: also have to look at your past relationships because you
36:15
Speaker 3: have receipts for everything that you've experienced in your life.
36:19
Speaker 3: It's called your life experience. And it takes willingness to say, okay,
36:26
Speaker 3: I'm going to look at this. Not for blame, for data.
36:29
Speaker 3: We're looking at our patterns to go, wow. Because I remember, again,
36:35
Speaker 3: Bev saying to me years when I was complaining about
36:38
Speaker 3: I don't know. My boyfriend did this. My best friend
36:40
Speaker 3: did this. My boss is an idiot, whatever the thing is.
36:42
Speaker 3: And she was finally like, and this is when I
36:44
Speaker 3: started working on boundaries. She was like, Terry, you are
36:48
Speaker 3: the common denominator in every one of those experiences though.
36:51
Speaker 3: So I can't possibly be, every other person can't be
36:55
Speaker 3: an entitled idiot, right? Is it, are they that or
37:00
Speaker 3: are you saying yes when you want to say no?
37:03
Speaker 3: Are you offering to do things you don't really want
37:05
Speaker 3: to do and they're taking you up on it and
37:07
Speaker 3: now you're pissed? What's really happening? And so what was
37:10
Speaker 3: so powerful about that is when we can turn and
37:14
Speaker 3: look at ourselves and go, okay, what is my 50%
37:17
Speaker 3: of every relationship I've been in? What was I trying
37:22
Speaker 3: to get? What did I think I was getting? And
37:25
Speaker 3: then what did I actually get? So we do a
37:26
Speaker 3: lot of unpacking of your past experiences and But the
37:31
Speaker 3: most important thing and probably the easiest way for people
37:33
Speaker 3: to start a process, if you want to look at
37:36
Speaker 3: what needs your attention, this goes back to what you
37:38
Speaker 3: had asked sort of at the top of this, is
37:41
Speaker 3: we can do a resentment inventory. Resentment inventory. So what
37:52
Speaker 3: does that do for us? It shows us where we
37:56
Speaker 3: are being probably less than authentic in our lives. Why
38:00
Speaker 3: am I resentful? Am I tolerating? Because another thing with
38:03
Speaker 3: father wounds is that often if you had a father,
38:05
Speaker 3: and it doesn't sound like either one of us had
38:08
Speaker 3: this kind of father, but if you had a father
38:10
Speaker 3: who was verbally abusive, emotionally abusive, explosive, right? It can
38:16
Speaker 3: teach you to tolerate really bad behavior and to normalize
38:22
Speaker 3: it where you go, well, men can't handle their anger.
38:25
Speaker 3: This is just how it is. He doesn't mean it.
38:26
Speaker 3: He's going to blow up and then it's going to pass.
38:28
Speaker 1: Yes.
38:29
Speaker 2: Or I deserve it. That's very toxic.
38:32
Speaker 3: What did I do? What could I have done differently
38:36
Speaker 3: so that I didn't make him so mad? So we
38:39
Speaker 3: need to look at all of those dysfunctional and name
38:43
Speaker 3: them for what they are. Because you may not see
38:46
Speaker 3: a red flag where a red flag should be because
38:50
Speaker 3: of what you experienced in your childhood. I remember, and
38:54
Speaker 3: I write about this in the book, distinctly in fourth
38:57
Speaker 3: grade is the first time I ever realized that anyone
38:59
Speaker 3: else could have a father who was like, not scary
39:02
Speaker 3: as hell. And I was at my friend's house and
39:05
Speaker 3: I would always be gone before her dad would come
39:07
Speaker 3: home from work. And my father always came home late
39:09
Speaker 3: because he was a workaholic and a high functioning alcoholic.
39:12
Speaker 3: So I remember her dad Coming home, we were playing
39:16
Speaker 3: at her house, and I immediately went to grab my sneakers.
39:18
Speaker 3: I'm literally hopping down her step, putting my sneakers on,
39:21
Speaker 3: trying to run away.
39:23
Speaker 2: Dad's coming home.
39:24
Speaker 3: Before I even had to interact with him. And then
39:25
Speaker 3: he comes in, and he's like, Terry, where are you going?
39:29
Speaker 3: I was like— and my friend said where are you
39:31
Speaker 3: going and I was like you're busy I should go
39:34
Speaker 3: right out the window I mean not kidding Lisa if
39:38
Speaker 3: I could have jumped out the window I probably would
39:40
Speaker 3: have and the dad because he was not that kind
39:43
Speaker 3: of dad was like Terry stay for dinner and I
39:45
Speaker 3: was like oh my god what okay. I didn't know
39:48
Speaker 3: how to say no. I was so scared.
39:50
Speaker 2: Are you hungry?
39:50
Speaker 3: And then watching this guy who was Italian, very warm,
39:55
Speaker 3: very funny, was super accessible, played with us after dinner.
40:00
Speaker 3: The whole time, I just remember my fourth grade mind
40:02
Speaker 3: was blown where I was like, there is a father
40:05
Speaker 3: that you don't have to be terrified of. This is
40:08
Speaker 3: unbelievable to me. And that was the beginning of me
40:11
Speaker 3: even thinking that something could be different and that I
40:15
Speaker 3: could want something different in my life.
40:19
Speaker 2: That's so powerful.
40:21
Speaker 1: Terry, we have done a lot of work so far
40:25
Speaker 1: and I just, so we need to take another quick break.
40:28
Speaker 1: But first of all, I absolutely love, I just want
40:31
Speaker 1: to say this out loud, that in your book, you
40:33
Speaker 1: have developed a system to help people do the hardest part, honestly,
40:37
Speaker 1: which is get under their own hood and start to
40:40
Speaker 1: get some visibility and self-awareness into these patterns. And also
40:46
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40:48
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40:51
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40:54
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40:58
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41:01
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41:04
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41:04
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41:18
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41:20
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41:21
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43:24
Speaker 3: This is a phenomenal conversation. You guys, we're back.
43:27
Speaker 1: With my very special guest, Terry Cole, author of Boundary Boss,
43:32
Speaker 1: Too Much, and now Father Wound. Terry, we've been talking
43:36
Speaker 1: about so many interesting things, how to get visibility into
43:40
Speaker 1: the way your relationship with your father has impacted you,
43:44
Speaker 1: the patterns you now engage in, starting to think about
43:48
Speaker 1: how to shift some of those so that you have
43:50
Speaker 1: more agency in your life and the ability to, it
43:55
Speaker 1: sounds like, have relationships that are better for you.
43:58
Speaker 3: So let's talk a little bit about what is on
44:00
Speaker 3: the other side of healing. What's the motivation? Why do it, right?
44:05
Speaker 3: Because again, a lot of people are like, oh, I
44:07
Speaker 3: don't want to go back, right? And I understand what
44:11
Speaker 3: is on the other side and literally everything you want
44:14
Speaker 3: is on the other side. So learning how to put
44:16
Speaker 3: yourself first without feeling guilty, realizing that's not being selfish,
44:20
Speaker 3: that's being healthy. Knowing that what you think, what you want,
44:25
Speaker 3: and how you feel is important, but it has to
44:28
Speaker 3: be the most important thing to you. We can always
44:32
Speaker 3: choose to compromise. We can always be generous and giving
44:36
Speaker 3: and kind the way that we are. But here's the thing,
44:38
Speaker 3: if you don't really get what you think, how you
44:43
Speaker 3: feel and what you want matter. And you don't negotiate
44:45
Speaker 3: for that. You don't push for that. You're not living
44:49
Speaker 3: a healed life. So on the other side, you will
44:52
Speaker 3: naturally be just negotiating for your needs more readily, easily,
44:57
Speaker 3: trusting your own instincts and your own decisions, handling your emotions.
45:02
Speaker 3: One whole chapter is on emotions and I call them
45:05
Speaker 3: activation points as opposed to triggers because triggers feel like
45:08
Speaker 3: it's gotta be trauma with a capital T. And there
45:10
Speaker 3: are many things that are activating triggers that are not
45:13
Speaker 3: trauma with a capital T, but they still interrupt our lives.
45:16
Speaker 3: So we talk all about that. Releasing yourself from resentment prison, right?
45:22
Speaker 3: We just process the crap out of all of this
45:25
Speaker 3: resentment so that we're grasping that it's like Buddha said about,
45:31
Speaker 3: I mean, I'll butcher it, but Buddha said about forgiving,
45:33
Speaker 3: you know, not forgiving someone else is like drinking poison
45:36
Speaker 3: and expecting the other person to die, right? Hate.
45:40
Speaker 1: I love that saying, but this is like, I just wanted,
45:43
Speaker 1: because one of the things that you said a couple
45:45
Speaker 1: minutes ago, I could see some people having a reaction to,
45:48
Speaker 1: you said you have to put yourself first and apologetically, right?
45:52
Speaker 1: And I think what you're saying is that if you don't,
45:55
Speaker 1: if you continue compromising and sacrificing, I know it's fine.
45:59
Speaker 2: You're not really not doing anybody.
46:00
Speaker 1: Any favors because it does contribute to that resentment and
46:05
Speaker 1: that emotional exhaustion and like really not being okay.
46:09
Speaker 3: And yes. And let's talk about the nuance of it, though,
46:13
Speaker 3: because here's the thing.
46:14
Speaker 5: Yeah.
46:15
Speaker 3: If you it's about knowing what you want. When you
46:18
Speaker 3: have minor children, you're not putting yourself first. You're putting
46:21
Speaker 3: minor children first because that's the phase of life you're
46:23
Speaker 3: in and that's normal. So none of this is like
46:27
Speaker 3: black and white. What I've seen in my therapy practice
46:31
Speaker 3: is women just defaulting to this self-abandoning position of whatever
46:37
Speaker 3: anyone else wants is fine. Or even though I want
46:40
Speaker 3: to do this, but you want to do something, so
46:42
Speaker 3: I will give up what I want to do because
46:43
Speaker 3: what you want to do, I will prioritize. And I'm
46:46
Speaker 3: not saying sometimes that's not appropriate.
46:48
Speaker 4: It is.
46:49
Speaker 3: But often it's not. And I'm inviting you to think
46:53
Speaker 3: about even the small things in your life, the small
46:56
Speaker 3: preferences that you have, and being able to make time
46:59
Speaker 3: and space for them. There's so much that we can
47:02
Speaker 3: do on our own that doesn't even involve other people.
47:05
Speaker 3: When you stop to say, oh, I have this light
47:07
Speaker 3: in my office that's bothering me. It's too bright. I
47:10
Speaker 3: hate it. Change the light. Get better sheets. Like, Care
47:15
Speaker 3: about how you like your coffee. Don't just say, I
47:17
Speaker 3: like it anyway, because you don't. Be specific. Your preferences
47:21
Speaker 3: are not a burden to other people, but they're the
47:24
Speaker 3: way other people can love you well. Yeah.
47:27
Speaker 1: And just to share perspective, I have also met and
47:30
Speaker 1: worked with so many men who also have that. It
47:33
Speaker 1: is very difficult for them to advocate themselves or to
47:36
Speaker 1: have a perspective or to have an opinion or to
47:38
Speaker 1: say what they want.
47:39
Speaker 2: And so, like, this is really impactful.
47:42
Speaker 1: So what's the question? And I'd so love to hear
47:45
Speaker 1: your thoughts about this, Terry. We're talking about how to
47:50
Speaker 1: heal the father wound once it has happened and heal.
47:54
Speaker 1: For our friends with us who are in some stage
47:57
Speaker 1: of parenting, who are either the father figure in a
48:02
Speaker 1: family or partnered to a father figure that they would
48:06
Speaker 1: like to co-parent with, what advice or thoughts would you
48:11
Speaker 1: have for father figures.
48:15
Speaker 4: To be the positive influence that will develop healthy, children
48:25
Speaker 4: who have confidence and worth rather than wounds they have
48:30
Speaker 4: to deal with beautiful therapists like yourself and you 20.
48:33
Speaker 3: Years all right so so for dads and for anyone
48:37
Speaker 3: in a father figure position one thing is time time
48:41
Speaker 3: without screens right just put your phone down stop interacting
48:46
Speaker 3: with kids with screens just stop please because it's it's
48:49
Speaker 3: really bad for self-esteem be a good listener Stop auto
48:55
Speaker 3: advice giving. You don't need to fix it. Your wife
48:58
Speaker 3: doesn't want you to either. So if you could just listen.
49:01
Speaker 2: Everybody hates that.
49:02
Speaker 3: Literally everybody hates. So I'm sorry that the patriarchy told
49:05
Speaker 3: you you had to fix everything because that isn't your fault.
49:08
Speaker 3: But know that what we really want is your presence.
49:12
Speaker 2: We want your attunement.
49:14
Speaker 3: So if you have a kid that you're raising, daughter
49:17
Speaker 3: or son, and they come home with a problem, the
49:20
Speaker 3: first thing you're going to say to them is, oh,
49:22
Speaker 3: I'm sorry that happened. So tell me, what do you
49:25
Speaker 3: think you should do? Before you say a word, the
49:28
Speaker 3: kid could be 6, 16, or 60. I don't care.
49:31
Speaker 3: Because what we're teaching children is we're teaching them deductive reasoning,
49:35
Speaker 3: critical thinking, right? How do you problem solve if dad
49:39
Speaker 3: is always telling you exactly what you have to do.
49:42
Speaker 3: So we're not looking for you to say, doesn't mean
49:44
Speaker 3: you won't weigh in. They may have a very bad
49:47
Speaker 3: idea of what to do. And you may need to say, well,
49:49
Speaker 3: let's rethink that.
49:51
Speaker 2: Or you could try that.
49:51
Speaker 3: Exactly.
49:52
Speaker 2: Right.
49:53
Speaker 1: But like helping our children trust their own judgment.
49:57
Speaker 3: That alone. How many of us got that from father figures?
50:03
Speaker 3: Maybe not. And I think the most important thing is
50:06
Speaker 3: that when you think about today, Attention is the most
50:10
Speaker 3: expensive coin we spend today. It's attention because we live
50:15
Speaker 3: in such an attention deficit place where people, you're with
50:19
Speaker 3: people who are on their phones all the, I mean,
50:21
Speaker 3: I'm not because I have zero tolerance, but some people are.
50:24
Speaker 2: No, I am.
50:24
Speaker 1: Yeah.
50:25
Speaker 3: Yeah. Can't do it. I'm like, I have a basket
50:28
Speaker 3: in my front door. Put your mother effing phone in
50:30
Speaker 3: there because.
50:31
Speaker 1: Put the lotion in the basket.
50:33
Speaker 3: I'm busy.
50:34
Speaker 5: Yeah.
50:34
Speaker 3: I don't need to look at the top head teenager,
50:36
Speaker 3: my nieces. I'm like, no. Or go in the car
50:39
Speaker 3: if you're going to do that. We need to be
50:41
Speaker 3: together and to actually be looking in people's eyes. I
50:44
Speaker 3: also wanted to tell you, though, I don't know when
50:46
Speaker 3: this is airing, but I have bonuses and free stuff
50:51
Speaker 3: for people who are interested in like, oh, I really
50:53
Speaker 3: want to get moving on this. I want to. So
50:56
Speaker 3: the new pub date is November 17th because of paper
51:00
Speaker 3: shortage or something. So anyway, it was supposed to be
51:02
Speaker 3: October 27th. So what we're doing is on the 15th
51:05
Speaker 3: of October, I have a completely free, Love, Boundaries, and
51:09
Speaker 3: Father Wound. Two and a half hour deep dive with
51:13
Speaker 3: Nedra Tawab, Dr. Alexandra Solomon, Vienna Farron, me, and Dr.
51:17
Speaker 2: Shefali.
51:18
Speaker 3: So it's bright female minds doing something great. So you
51:23
Speaker 3: guys can just go to terricole.com forward slash father wound event.
51:28
Speaker 3: It's right there. It's totally free. And it'll be in
51:30
Speaker 3: all of my, if you follow me on Instagram, it'll
51:31
Speaker 3: be in my link tree. And then on the 24th,
51:35
Speaker 3: we're also doing something that if you pre-ordered the book,
51:37
Speaker 3: I'm doing a three and a half hour deep dive
51:40
Speaker 3: where you're going to be unpacking your own father wound blueprint.
51:43
Speaker 3: So it's going to be a totally experiential thing where
51:46
Speaker 3: I'm providing what's in the book so that we can
51:48
Speaker 3: all sort of work together and really get sort of
51:51
Speaker 3: moving on this healing journey together.
51:56
Speaker 1: What a fantastic offer because, you know, and I think
51:59
Speaker 1: we've all had this experience. You sit down and you
52:02
Speaker 1: inhale a book and you're like, yep, all good ideas.
52:04
Speaker 1: But then when it comes to being able to go
52:06
Speaker 1: there experientially and also apply it, that can be a
52:10
Speaker 1: different animal. So I love it that you're making these
52:12
Speaker 1: opportunities available.
52:14
Speaker 2: Wonderful.
52:15
Speaker 1: Terry, this has been such a fascinating conversation. And I
52:18
Speaker 1: also know that there's so much more. I mean, we
52:23
Speaker 1: had a little sampler of everything going on here in
52:26
Speaker 1: Father Wound.
52:27
Speaker 2: There's just so much here.
52:29
Speaker 1: Any last words for friends with us today? Or if
52:32
Speaker 1: you were to share again, you know, where to continue
52:34
Speaker 1: this conversation, this work. Father Wound will be coming out
52:36
Speaker 1: later in the fall. You have resources available at TerryCole.com. Yes.
52:41
Speaker 3: My last words are that you are worthy of the
52:47
Speaker 3: life and the relationships that you really desire, like your
52:49
Speaker 3: heart's desire. You're worthy of it if you're willing to
52:53
Speaker 3: work for it. So yes, you got to do a
52:55
Speaker 3: little bit of work, but I promise you that freedom,
52:59
Speaker 3: that liberation, that imagine never walking on eggshells again in
53:02
Speaker 3: your entire life. That's what freedom looks like on the
53:06
Speaker 3: other side of healing this wound. And that is what
53:09
Speaker 3: I want for you. And I promise you, I've walked
53:12
Speaker 3: thousands of women through it. And men, and again, for
53:15
Speaker 3: the men in the audience, if you love women, read
53:17
Speaker 3: this book. And I have so many men with my
53:20
Speaker 3: other work too, saying, hey, this applied to me too.
53:24
Speaker 3: So it's, you know, we're all human beings. Like we
53:26
Speaker 3: all have these feelings. But you're worth the work. And
53:30
Speaker 3: you living a life that thrills and fulfills you is possible.
53:35
Speaker 2: Wonderful.
53:35
Speaker 1: Well, Terry Cole, thank you so much for spending this
53:37
Speaker 1: time with us today. What an inspiring conversation.
53:39
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.
53:56
Speaker 2: You guys, such a good conversation with Terry.
53:59
Speaker 1: I hope you got as much out of that as
54:01
Speaker 1: I did. I thought her perspective was so interesting. And really,
54:05
Speaker 1: I think we can all relate, right? How we were
54:08
Speaker 1: shaped with our experiences of our parents. Our dads can
54:14
Speaker 1: be very significant, as can moms. And, you know, one
54:17
Speaker 1: of my takeaways in talking with Terry, maybe you had
54:20
Speaker 1: the same experience, is how much work It can be
54:25
Speaker 1: just to get visibility into ourselves, right?
54:29
Speaker 2: To get under our own hood.
54:32
Speaker 1: And what an experiential process that is. You know, Terry
54:37
Speaker 1: talked a lot about her own experiences of being in
54:39
Speaker 1: a relationship with a therapist who was able to challenge
54:44
Speaker 1: some of her old ideas or.
54:48
Speaker 2: Narratives, right?
54:49
Speaker 1: Like when she was talking about how I am being
54:51
Speaker 1: victimized by all these people and our therapist was like,
54:54
Speaker 1: how are you co-creating this experience potentially, which can be
54:59
Speaker 1: challenging to hear, but also unlocks this whole universe of agency, right?
55:05
Speaker 1: Because if you are collaborating on your life experiences, it
55:11
Speaker 1: means that you also have the ability to change them
55:15
Speaker 1: and to change the outcomes.
55:17
Speaker 2: But none of us.
55:18
Speaker 1: Can do that if we're not aware of what we're
55:21
Speaker 1: doing in the first place. And I know that in
55:24
Speaker 1: my own life, I have had relationships with a variety
55:28
Speaker 1: of coaches and teachers and mentors who have given me
55:31
Speaker 1: that visibility. And it's been so valuable to have somebody
55:36
Speaker 1: who knows us very well and who cares about us
55:38
Speaker 1: to say, you may not have noticed, but I see
55:41
Speaker 1: this thing that you might not see and shine a
55:43
Speaker 1: light on those blind spots. And so Terry certainly offered
55:46
Speaker 1: many ways of cracking into that through her book. But
55:49
Speaker 1: I also wanted to offer, you know, that you can
55:54
Speaker 1: embark on your own relationship with that type of person
55:57
Speaker 1: in your life to do this type of work. There
56:03
Speaker 1: is a therapeutic component. Obviously, we're going into the past,
56:07
Speaker 1: we're seeing the old patterns, but we're not necessarily talking
56:11
Speaker 1: about the treatment of a clinical mental health condition, right?
56:16
Speaker 1: We're not talking about the management of PTSD or an
56:19
Speaker 1: anxiety disorder or depression. We're talking about how to get
56:22
Speaker 1: visibility into ourselves and to learn, grow, develop, and figure
56:27
Speaker 1: out what we need to do differently in order to
56:29
Speaker 1: create different outcomes. And so if you would like to
56:33
Speaker 1: have this type of experience that doesn't pathologize you, my
56:38
Speaker 1: advice is to work with a therapist who is also
56:42
Speaker 1: a certified coach who practices coaching competencies that will help
56:46
Speaker 1: you crack into all of this in a very deep, powerful, impactful,
56:51
Speaker 1: experiential way. but to talk about, so what do we do, right?
56:57
Speaker 1: And so you can have that experience with the clinicians
56:59
Speaker 1: in my network at Growing Self.
57:02
Speaker 2: And it all starts with a free consultation.
57:04
Speaker 1: Come to growingself.com and you'll see a big orange button
57:08
Speaker 1: at the top of the site that says, get connected.
57:10
Speaker 1: And that's all you need to do. Tell us a
57:12
Speaker 1: little bit more about what you're wanting to work on,
57:15
Speaker 1: answer a couple of questions, and then you can immediately
57:19
Speaker 1: book a free consultation. with a clinician on my team
57:23
Speaker 1: who specializes in just that. And it is very important
57:27
Speaker 1: to us that this does start with a no obligation
57:30
Speaker 1: free first phone call because the vibe fit is so
57:34
Speaker 1: important and you need to be shopping around. Who you
57:39
Speaker 1: work with really matters a great deal. And I believe
57:43
Speaker 1: very strongly that you should Get a sense for who
57:45
Speaker 1: people are.
57:46
Speaker 2: Do you feel comfortable with this person? Ask them questions.
57:50
Speaker 1: Do you have experience in helping people work through what
57:54
Speaker 1: I'm hoping to work through? And hear what they have
57:57
Speaker 1: to say so that you can make informed choices about
57:59
Speaker 1: whether or not this is something that you want to
58:01
Speaker 1: get involved with. before making that decision. So that's how
58:06
Speaker 1: we start here at Growing Self. Growingself.com, schedule your free consultation,
58:11
Speaker 1: and just have a first conversation and talk about your
58:13
Speaker 1: hopes and goals for, you know, I'd like to break
58:17
Speaker 1: free from some of these self-limiting old patterns that I
58:20
Speaker 1: seem to have developed due to my historical relationship with
58:22
Speaker 1: my father.
58:23
Speaker 2: Can you help me? And then go from there.
58:26
Speaker 1: All right, you guys, thanks so much for joining us today.
58:29
Speaker 1: And I will be back in touch soon with another
58:31
Speaker 1: episode of Love, Happiness, and Success.