Latest / The Joe Rogan Experience / JRE MMA Show #185 with Ethyn Ewing

Transcript

JRE MMA Show #185 with Ethyn Ewing · The Joe Rogan Experience

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: by night. All day. Good to see you.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: It's good to be here. I like your shirt. I
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: appreciate it.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Professor Finesser. Is that your Professor Finesser line?
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: This is one of my designs of my Professor Finesser line.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Got the cross guard there.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: I like it. That's dope.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: We got a couple different symbols. Something that I'm building up.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: I want to get out to the people.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: It's a cool nickname.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: It's... It's unique for sure. It came about a funny way,
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: but I like it. The mantra that it brings to
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: the fight game and to who I am is perfect.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Well, it's finesse, and you fight with a lot of finesse.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: So we should start from your UFC debut because that
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: was when you really burst onto the scene. You fought
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: this guy, Malcolm Wellmaker, who's a killer, vicious knockout puncher,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: and had a ton of hype behind him because of
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: his performance. Was it the Contender Series where you had
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: the big performance?
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: It was all three of them.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Contender Series, you knocked that dude out. And then I
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: don't remember who was second, but then it was Chris
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Moutinho was the third one that he knocked out like that.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: And you put on a show, man, and nobody had
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: heard of you. And that's one of the craziest things
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: about this sport is that there can be a guy
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: like you that's learning and growing in the shadows. And
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: then they get the call. And on, I think it
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: was two days notice.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: So two days' notice, you fought above your weight because
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: you're a bantamweight normally, and you fought at featherweight. And, dude,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: you just– it wasn't just that you fought a guy
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: who was this vicious striker. It was the calmness and
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: the technique and the smoothness of it all that was
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: so impressive. And I was like, this guy's different. Like
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: the way you fight is very intelligent, and I love that.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: I love watching a guy who's just all technique and
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: and movement and you're you're the epitome.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Of that i appreciate it um that's something i pride
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: myself on that's i think maybe it's because i've i've
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: delved into more of a boxing realm with perfecting the
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: striking and really focusing on um that that technical aspect
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: that style but yeah it's to me to watch guys
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: go in there and just brawl it out and say
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: uh Let's see who can take more punches before the
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: other guy drops is just silly to me. Like you said,
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: I like to fight with finesse. I like to hit
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: and not get hit, and champions don't take return fires.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: I hope to have a lot of longevity with this game,
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: and that's why I fight that way.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: That is the formula for longevity. I was having a
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: conversation with Fedor, the guy who's sitting next to us,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: who's one of the best pool players in the world.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: We just got back from Waze to Well, so shout
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: out to Brigham. and all the people at Ways to
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Wealth for taking care of us. But he and I
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: were talking about fighters and about, it's very similar to,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: I think, everything, whether it's pool or golf. And there's
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: the people that really focus on technique and fundamentals and
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: really objectively look at what they're doing and refine it.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: And we were talking about guys who just stand in
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: front of each other and blast each other. I'm like, look,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: the crowd will cheer. They will love to see you,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: but your career will be shorter, and the end will
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: be bad. The end will be bad. And then you'll
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: probably fight past the time where you should, and no
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: one's going to stop you. Maybe you have one or
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: two close friends that will tell you when you're going
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: to hang them up. But a lot of coaches let
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: guys fight way too long, and I think the organization
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: lets guys fight way too long. There's a few guys that,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: in the past at least, I've seen them on the
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: lineup in an upcoming fight. I'm like, oh, God. And
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: then I see who he's fighting. I'm like, Oh God.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Like, I don't want to see this guy take any
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: more punishment. I don't, you know, enough is enough. And
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: those styles of just face first, just attacking boy, the
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: audience loves you. And that's a trap, right? That is
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: a real trap.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, a hundred percent. And I think that's,
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: it's almost a little frustrating that the general public gives
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: that kind of energy to that kind of a match. Sure.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I get it.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: It's exciting. You want to see blood spilled? Like, people
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: just really enjoy the chaos of all that and all
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: the movement and the energy that goes into it. But yeah, you're,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: you're foregoing that whole technical aspect, like the perfection of
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: controlling the dance from the beginning to the end and
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: everything in between, you know, it's, and it's almost just
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: like a, like an educated street brawler. You're getting in
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: there and just swinging and going crazy. And to me,
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: that's not what martial arts is. I mean, it's, it
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: literally is the, the chase of perfection to it of,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: you know, like, The hit and don't get hit, that
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: is the art of boxing, but the art of striking
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: and martial arts. You want to be near perfect in
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: the way you engage in this. Land the damage and
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: be able to cut those angles, move your head, pull
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: out the distance, and not take any of that in return.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: A lot of guys get cheered on initially, and so
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: it's unfortunate that maybe it's not unfortunate, but you just
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: see it a lot that Yeah, those guys get hyped
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: up at the beginning, and then all the other things happen,
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: like you said.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, look, they are exciting. I love when
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: guys fight like that because it's just crazy to watch.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: But I have to set aside the rational part of
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: my brain that says this is not smart. It's not
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: a good thing for them.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: And there's no future in this. Eventually, it's going to
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: catch up to you.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, if I watch these guys,
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: you know, get after it like Roman Puka versus– His
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: opponent on the Dana White Contending Series this last Tuesday,
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: I believe it was.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, that was crazy.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: Dude, I mean, I've trained with Roman a little bit
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: here and there. He's from the same area as me. And, yeah,
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: the guy's very skillful. But at the end of the day,
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: both those guys walked out of there just busted up.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, they went straight to the hospital. And it's
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: fantastic to watch. But from a fighter's perspective, at least
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: for someone who's engaging in this on the same level
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: as they are, yeah, I don't know. That's why I
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: like Roman. you know, a little bit more of that
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: precise style with the boxing specifically, I guess. I've really
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: drawn a lot of aspects from it.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, for sure. I mean, there's an art to, like,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: a fighter that fights with style and a fighter that
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: fights with finesse. Like, I always go to Izzy in
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: his prime. Adesanya in his prime when he was just
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: styling on dudes. I mean, it was a beautiful thing
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: to watch. It was... It was like a dance. It
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: was almost like he was coordinating them. You know, he
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: was moving them into his strikes and everything was like feints.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: They were all like very specific to gauge reactions. And
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: he put it all into the computer. And the next
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: thing you know, he's tuning you up.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, he's dancing his way out into the octagon
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: and then he's dancing in there, you know? Yeah. And
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: I think the other thing that the general public doesn't
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: understand about this game is that it's a smart man's game.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: It's not a tough man's game.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Well, that's one of the reasons why I wanted to
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: talk to you because I've seen a lot of your
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: quotes online. I've seen you talk. You're obviously a thoughtful person.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: And I think you have to be to have that
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: kind of a style because it does take a lot
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: of thinking. It takes a lot of like what you're
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: doing in there by constantly overloading your opponent's nervous system
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: with movement and constant counters and being like, right out
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: of range, but then right in range and then right
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: out of range. There's a lot of intelligence involved in that.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: And for someone like me who really loves the art
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: of it, I love watching a guy like you fight
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: because I really wish young fighters would emulate people like you.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Young fighters would see a guy like that, like, that's
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: what I want to fight like. I don't want to
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: be this guy who goes in there and the end
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: of my career, my face is just a roadmap of
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: scars and I got CTE, but boy, people remember back
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: in the day when I knocked that guy out or
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: when we had this fight of the night.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's taken a lot of experience, a lot
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: of growth, a lot of seeing different things because when
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: I was a wrestler, it was the Iowa style of
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: wrestling that I emulated and that I hope to emulate,
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: which is just get in your face, break you down,
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: break your spirit, break you physically, just completely wipe you
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: out with just outstanding pressure, you know? And I think
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: I suffered with the finesse, with a little bit of
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: the technicality of setting things up and being smooth because
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: I was just clubbing on your head, snapping people down, going, going, going.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: And I refined that. I've pulled back from that almost
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: too much, I would say, to where if I'm striking
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: with someone, I don't even want to engage in a
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: battle of physicality. These guys try to push and move
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: and get up. And I'm like, I'll sit and I'll
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: dance and I'll roll up and I'll shut them down
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: real quick. and I'm steering them off, and I'm throwing
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: really quick, and they try to get physical where they're
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: really trying to make it a high pace and just
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: more physical. I don't want to engage with that at all.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: I want to steer from beginning to the end. I
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: want to keep my heart rate as low as possible.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: I want to land shots, and then I want to
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: be back to sitting and, like you said, covering a distance,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: controlling everything where I can sit, I can take my breath,
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: and I can see what's coming next, and then I
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: can move accordingly. And so, you know, after being out,
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: For a little bit of time, I've now even elevated
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: to another greater extent in my own mind that I'm
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: now starting to combine the two things to where before
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't say I shied away from it. I'm a
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: tough guy if we want to get physical, and if
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: it needs to go to that, I'm there all day.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: Don't get me wrong with that, but I'm fine in
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: that middle ground where I was too much of that
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: Iowa-style defense without the finesse. Now I was trying to
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: be all skillful, all finesse, dance around the Muhammad Ali shuffle,
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: throw that flicker jab, be out of range, you know,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: and not want to engage in the physicality too much.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: And now I've elevated once again to where I'm finding
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: that perfect middle ground that I'm letting my ego go
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: in the gym to where if we do get into
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: that physicality or someone gets me with something, if it
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: doesn't look perfect, I'm not sitting there thinking, oh, I
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: need to look perfect and avoid these things. Now I'm
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: just sending it and getting after it. So it's an
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: ever-evolving game, and I'm just getting better all the time
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: with everything. So you'll never see me go in there
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: and brawl anybody, but you'll see less hesitation. You'll see
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: more precise shots, and then all the other finesse will
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: always be there.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Well, it is a constant work in progress, right? And
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: I think that's one of the more interesting things about
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: MMA is that you see a fighter when they first
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: start fighting in the UFC, and then you see as
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: fights go on, they get more fights, they get more confidence,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: they get more experience, and they also get significantly better.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: You know, it's kind of rare that you see athletes
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: in a sport, generally speaking, when they get to a
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: certain professional level, they're kind of already at their peak, right?
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: And they might get a little better, but in MMA
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: in particular, you see dramatic improvement in fighters over the
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: course of four or five years, especially if they have
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: good management and good training. And one of the things
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: that you're talking about is letting your ego go in
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: the gym. That is so important. It's so important to
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: recognize that training is for learning. You're not trying to
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: win every training session. You're not trying to win fights.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: You're trying to get better at winning actual fights. And
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: sometimes getting better at winning actual fights is addressing the
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: whatever weird weaknesses or weird places where you're not as
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: comfortable and getting comfortable there. And the best way to
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: do that is just force yourself in those situations.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. A hundred percent.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: It's hard to do though, because guys want to be dominant.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: They want to, you know, you don't want to lose
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: a training session. You don't want to give, you know,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: this guy that you're sparring with the impression that he
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: can kick your ass.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: So you want to get it back on them, but
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: sometimes it's smart to not. Yeah.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: A hundred percent. I mean, I'm, I'm over there. The
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Rotolo brothers are training over there at CSW with Eric
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: Paulson right now. And, yeah.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Those guys are phenomenal.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're the best in the world at what they do.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: They're so fun to watch. Those guys could put jiu-jitsu
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: on the map. Oh, yeah. Because the Rotolo brothers, like,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: when they do jiu-jitsu, it is like this– chaotic, exciting, like,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: very kinetic, very technical path to your neck.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: You know, that's what it is. It's just this constant
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: path to your neck.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: Dude, and they got these monkey arms that it can
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: just wrap around your neck and get that darts choke
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: from anywhere, man. It's ridiculous.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Long arms are awesome.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: The long arms are insane.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Such an advantage. Like, Hodger Gracie had that.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: A lot of guys have that. A lot of, like,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: the best darts guys. Hamzat has that.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: Those long arm guys. Fuck, man.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And then, like you said, like, they're Their ability
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: to– they almost like enforce the chaos because that's where
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: they thrive at.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: All that scramble situation. They're running, doing crazy jumps, like
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: crazy sweep setups. Was it Kate or Ty? I think–
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: I'm going to say it was Ty when he ran
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: and he bounced off the cage or the ropes and
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: he runs back in and double legs. It's like a
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: WWE match. They're like thriving off of that chaotic energy.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: Scrambles. They're so good in scrambles. And it's really interesting watching.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Is it Ty that's doing one FC that is doing
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: MMA fights now?
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: They're both fighting.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: They're both fighting now. And it's going to be exciting
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: to have those guys enter into the UFC someday. Hopefully
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: they will.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. They're just freak athletes. It's something that
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: they've been around since they were super, super young. Yeah,
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: I mean. even, even their striking, you know, it's not
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: super technical quite yet. They're very brand new in it,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: but they're just, they got long reach. They're very methodical.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: They're athletic. They understand distances from the jujitsu world of
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: setting up takedowns and, you know, closing, closing that distance. So, um,
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: but yeah, what I was saying is like going with
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: that kind of a guy, it's like the last thing
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: I want to do is engage in like a grappling
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: position with them in the jujitsu or in the MMA. And, uh,
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: But it's like, yeah, the more I do that, I'm
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: only going to get better at doing that kind of stuff. 100%.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Kill the ego. Engage full head on into what you're
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: bad at. That's the only way to get good at anything.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Another great thing about those guys is they're totally natural.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: And in the jiu-jitsu world, that's rare. Right. That's really rare.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Jiu-jitsu is a dirty sport, man.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Or, you know, I mean, is it dirty if everyone's
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: doing it?
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: No.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Let me say it this way. It's an enhanced sport. Right.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: For the most part, the elite guys are on some–
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Brazilian supplements.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's legal, but they're all doing it. Yeah. They're
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: all juiced up.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's kind of legal. Like Abu Dhabi doesn't test.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: A lot of places don't test.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: So it's like, and you see these guys, there's no way.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: Some of them, and, you know, kudos to guys like Gordon,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: like Gordon Ryan, who talks very openly about it. He's like,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: everybody's on performance enhancing drugs. Why wouldn't I be on
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: performance enhancing drugs? Right. My goal is to be the
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: absolute best that I can be, period. Right. And the
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: idea that the only reason why he's so good is
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: because of steroids is also equally ridiculous. Because when he
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: was younger and when he was much smaller, he was
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: winning tournaments left and right and beating world champions. And
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: he was totally natural.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: There's no way you can say someone like Gordon Ryan
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: isn't the highest prowess of skill set for jiu-jitsu. His
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: technicality and his abilities there are unquestionable. Yeah, I mean,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: what are you going to do? If everybody else is
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: on that level, you're now at a deficit if you're
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: not taking it.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: There's a few guys that don't.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: And maybe, I don't know, obviously there's maybe some strength
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: deficit there, but that's why, again, going back to my
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: style and what I like to do, like the technicality
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: and having that ability, there's– there's just so many aspects
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: to everything. But if you're that much more technical than someone,
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: then that can negate size to some extent that can negate, um,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: strength to some extent. Like there's, there's, there's a lot
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: of equalizers there now, you know, on the, on the
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: opposite end, someone who's got that one hitter quitter, they
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: could be less technical, but they're always dangerous. If they
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: hit you one time and you go to sleep, then
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: all sins are forgiven. They could have got beat up
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: for two rounds straight and they knock you out. That's
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: all the crowd remembers. So, uh, There's a lot that
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: goes into it. But if you're that much more skilled
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: in your technicality, that's– you're going to– to me, that's
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: the best you can do. That's what you're chasing.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: For sure. The really dangerous guys are the guys who
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: have that one-hitter quitter power and then they get real technical. Yeah.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Those are the scary guys.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, for sure. I mean that's– now you have it all.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: That's the pinnacle.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: But it's often not the case though. That's what's interesting
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: is power can be a curse. As can talent. Talent
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: can be a curse too because you don't work as
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: hard because you fuck everybody up in the gym and
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: so you don't show up for practice sometimes. You still
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: fuck these guys up. They're just not on your level
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: physically or for whatever reason. And then there's guys that
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: have that power that always just rely on that power
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: and never really develop the fundamentals. Like Deontay Wilder is
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: a great example of that. Deontay Wilder, who I think
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: is the greatest one-punch knockout artist in the history of
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: the heavyweight division. That fucking guy. And not a big guy. Yeah.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: But his power is nuts. And Teddy Atlas has the
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: greatest definition of it, description of it. He said, it's
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: the great eraser. Any mistakes he makes, one shot erases
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: them all. Yeah. It's so true.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: Oh, 100%. Yeah, I agree.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: But could you imagine if Deontay could move like Tyson Fury? Right.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: If Deontay could box like Tyson Fury? Yeah. Also with
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: that crazy, insane power.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's game over for anybody.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: That's game over for everybody. Who stands in front of
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: that guy? Yeah.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Not a single person, you know?
• 18:18
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• 19:26
  Speaker 1: if he could move like Usyk. I mean, it's a
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: tall fucking order because no one can move like Usyk
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: other than Usyk, but Imagine if he could move like Usyk.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: You know? I mean, N has that crazy stop, bang! Right.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: One shot, you're in another fucking dimension.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's, you know, there's, and then, that's obviously, like,
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: at a personal level, like, some people are blessed with
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: that talent. like you said or a skill set or athleticism.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Well, the power thing is just– it seems like it's
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: a gift.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, it is. I mean I think it was
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: for us. I was talking about Connor and he was
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: talking about how the muscles connect to the muscle head differently.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: It's like a long or a short one. So then
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: you either have like that real explosive power but then
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: your cardio– suffers, whatever it is, he's going into it.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: It's a gift. I mean, can you develop it to
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: some extent? Yeah, of course. Now, the other thing with punching,
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: with striking, is it's not always, like, power that knocks
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: people out. It's the shot that you don't see coming
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: that knocks you out.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, then you can kind of equalize
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: on that playing field, I suppose, to some extent, if
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: you're getting people guessing, you're getting people fainting, you're hitting
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: them with shots that they're not seeing. Yeah. then you're
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: going to get similar knockout finishes like that.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of guys that knock a lot of
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: people out that don't have one-punch power, for sure. Max
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Holloway is a great example of that. Like, Max has never,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: even though he has knocked guys out with one shot,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: it's generally, like, after a bunch of damage. Right. But,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, Max talked about it pretty openly about guys
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: like Conor and Jose Aldo, and he's like, they just
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: get tired quicker because of the speed and power. They're
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: so explosive. It's so much energy to try to close
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: the distance that quick and land those big, nuclear bomb shots,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: but you only have a few of those in a
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: whole fight.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I feel like Max's perspective on those two guys
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: may be construed just because of– I mean, he fought
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: Conor the first time, I guess, when Conor was in
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: his prime, you know, when he was coming up at 145.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: It was almost before his prime.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: It was on that rise.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: They were both kids. I think Max was 20 at
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: the time.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. He was– I think he was like the youngest–
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: UFC fighter at that time or something.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: He was a different human back then.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: For sure. But I just think, because Conor's cardio is
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: something that I have noticed. It wasn't super poor initially.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: When he was fighting at 145, to me, he never,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: like Chad Mendes, they had a lot of grappling exchanges.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Chad took him down. Chad hit him with shots. Conor
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: just stayed nice, calm, cool, and collected. And he got
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: back to the striking where he could do that. But
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: to me, he never was gassed out. But then you
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: watch the second Diaz fight, and he's running around the
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: cage for five rounds. Now he's gone up in a
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: weight class. So then it goes back to what's his
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: training regimen look like? He's not cutting as much weight,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: so he doesn't have to be as disciplined. His diet changes.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of aspects. So, like, I don't know.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: The Conor one was weird to me just because I
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: saw a change in it when he was– At 145,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: he didn't have poor cardio. As soon as he left
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: that weight class, his cardio waned. And then Jose Aldo,
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, that guy was undefeated for, what, 10 years?
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: He was champion for 10 years, and you never saw
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: him get tired. I never saw him get tired. Yeah,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: Max fought him at a certain point when he was
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: a little bit older, this and that. So, I don't know,
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: maybe that's just Max's perspective on that. I'm not saying
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: Max is incorrect in what he's saying, but I don't know. There's...
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: To me, I haven't pinpointed exactly what's the right and
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: wrong way to do everything just because there's so many variables,
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: especially in MMA. I mean, we were kind of discussing
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: it a little bit earlier. It's not just solely that
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: you have good cardio that allows you to continue to
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: perform in that fight. There's another aspect of how calm, cool,
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: and collected you can be because, like we were talking,
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: hitting the mitts and something, if you're real tense and
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: you're just trying to kill them, Yeah, you're going to
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: burn yourself out. But if you're fast and snappy, you're
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: producing just as much, if not more power, and now
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: you're being more efficient with it. And so I don't know.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: The cardio one is a funky one, and combat sports
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: to me.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: It really is. But I think if you look at
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Jose Aldo, Jose Aldo, when he was on top, when
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: he was the king, he was wrecking everybody. And he
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: was the hammer most of the time. And he was
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: so athletic and so fast and had some of the
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: best leg kicks we had ever seen. Like the Uriah
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Faber fight. How fucking tough is Uriah Faber? Because that guy, many, many,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: many humans would have been stopped a long time ago
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: just from those leg kicks. And Uriah just kept trying
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: to the very last second. Even though he was way
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: behind the scorecards, never folded up his tent, he was
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: still trying. But Aldo wasn't the nail. You know what
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: I'm saying? Like there was very few moments in a
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: fight where someone had really started overwhelming him. And one
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: of the things that Max has always been so good
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: at is knowing when to hit the gas and knowing
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: when to just slowly ramp up the pressure. And you
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: see guys start to fade. And Max is a cardio
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: fucking machine. I mean, super disciplined guy. And great camp.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Those guys in Hawaii really prepare him well. He is
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: always like 100. Like the fight with Gaethje. Fighting in
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: the fifth round of a fucking crazy chaotic war at
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: the same exact pace he was fighting in the first round.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: So it's the experience of knowing what your body can do,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: when you can hit the gas, when you need to
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: back off, when to move, when not to, and when
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: you feel your opponent start to fade a little bit.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: You see the mouth being opened a little bit more.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: You see the movement looks a little sloppier.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: Right. Oh, 100%. That's, yeah, knowing when to rest is
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: a big aspect of that as well because you go
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: and you– That's why a lot of the training you
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: do is that short burst. You hit your sprints. Maybe
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: you hit the straightaway on the track, and then you
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: jog and maintain because in a fight, you're never completely resting.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: You're always moving a little bit. That's a huge thing,
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: the experience. I think his style and just what he's created,
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: like you said, in his camp is a high-output, high-volume individual.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: His body's probably become... used to that, and that's how
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: he performs normally.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was shocked that Conor wanted to fight him
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: in his first fight back after years off. I mean,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: five years is a long time to not fight. And
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: then to come back and fight a guy like Max,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: who's been constantly fighting the best guys in the world,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: and knowing that Max is a guy who never fades,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: and he's in very different... I mean, the only guy
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: who's really gotten him out of there is Ilya. And,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: you know, Ilya caught Max when Max went down from
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: 55 down to 45, which I think was a mistake.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: He was so big. He got so big to get
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: up to 55 to fight Justin. And he did it
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: over a long period of time, put a lot of
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: mass on. And then you essentially you're starving yourself to
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: get down to 45 again. Your body's going to be
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: weak no matter what you do. It's not like he
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: was when he was fighting at 45. He maintained a
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: lower weight class, knew exactly when to cut and would
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: make it no problem each time. That last cut to
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: 45 was a nightmare. It was a horror show. And
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: so when he got in there with Ilya, and then
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: you're fighting El Matador, that motherfucker. You want to talk
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: about technique. Technique and his strike, the smoothness and efficiency,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: and the one punch, go night-night power. I mean, that
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: guy has it above it. Who the fuck did that
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: to Charles Oliveira the way that guy did? I mean,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: that's nuts. And up at 55. Oliveira's a big 55, too.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, him moving up to 55, those are some big
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: dogs right there. Big.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Especially when you look at him and Justin. When him
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: and Justin were, like, facing off each other, I'm like,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: that's a way bigger dude. Like, Justin's bigger than me,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: and Ilya's smaller than me. When I stand next to
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: the two of them, I'm like, this is crazy that
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Ilya has the kind of power that he's just wrecking
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: guys even that are way bigger than him. Right.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, his skill set is amazing combined with
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: the power. That's someone you talk about has a skill set.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: And the punching power, you know, and encompasses both those things. Yeah,
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: he's got it all. I mean, and the thing with him, too,
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: is he's just so calm, cool, and collected. I think
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: that's also something. I mean, I do a lot of, like,
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: comparison from Muay Thai boxing to the MMA world because,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm in MMA, so I understand that there's
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: so many different aspects to it where, like, someone could
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: take you down, and that's going to affect your striking skills.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: skill set you know if you got someone who's real
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: dope wrestler and you're and you're a way better striker
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: if you're sitting there and worried about them taking you
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: down and smothering you your striking goes out the the
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: window a little bit because now you have a whole
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: different set of weapons that you're worrying.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: About um and you can get caught easier.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah especially if you're like just loading up on them
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: yeah you're gonna get ducked under and double-legged and and
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: then taken down and that's that's the whole thing but
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: um I forgot where we even started this train of thought. But, yeah,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's his collectiveness, too. But I
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: was saying there's comparisons to all these. And that's why, like, boxing,
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: you see these guys, they might have a couple more rounds,
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: but they come out in, like, the first round. Maybe
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: the second round is a feeling out round. You know,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: it's a slow buildup where they're collecting data. They're setting traps.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: They're doing a lot of that. And you see that
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: in MMA too. It's just not at the same level. Obviously,
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: there's a greater skill set. There's more weapons to worry about.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: It is different. But I don't know. Obviously, I'm reaching
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: for peak perfection with everything. So if we're coming and
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: we're looking at distance control, I think the boxers do
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: it better. If we're looking at setting up feints and
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: working off a jab especially, I think that's the most
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: frustrating thing when I watch MMA or UFC fights. And
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: watch the majority of the guys never, ever use a jab.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: And it's always just this big overhand right. I'm like,
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: what are you doing? you have two hands you have
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: the jab set it up now I'm not saying that's
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: everybody but I see many people doing that but going
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: back to Teporia that's one thing that he does so
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: well is he's a shorter guy he sits back on
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: that back foot he's throwing that jab he's understanding your
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: distance control so he can get in And then that's
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: where he's got that power and he lets that go.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: It's going to be interesting to see how he rebounds.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Because that was a lot of damage. Two fractured orbitals.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: They had to stop the fight in between rounds. And
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: he took big punches from a guy who's got fucking
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: rocks in his hands. I mean, Justin can crack.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: Well, they call him, what, the most violent?
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: The most violent in the game. And I think that
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: stands true. Yeah, that's a hard one to bounce back from.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: It's going to take... extra time of him really letting
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: all his injuries heal and be fully recovered before he
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: even thinks about sparring again, you know, ever getting touched
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: in the face again. Yeah.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know where he's at now, you know, um,
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: but I know that he's still recovering and it'll be
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: a while. I mean, the fight was in June. We're
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: doing this right now. It's August 30th. Was it 30th
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: or 31st? 31st. So, you know, he's had a couple
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: of months, but you know that he probably needs like
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: six months before he's even sparring again.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean, It's going to
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: take some time. The thing that I really hate to
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: see is when you have undefeated individuals like that who
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: have gone undefeated their whole career, feel invincible, and then
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: sometimes that one takes them off their pedestal. Like Jose
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Aldo is a great example of that. He came back
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: and he fought tough, but he just never was the same.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: He was never that untouchable. There's probably many people that
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: I can touch back on, but I think hopefully that's
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: That's the main thing that he's going to need is
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: that mental indestructibility and to come back and just be like,
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: I'm the same person. That one fight doesn't change anything,
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: and I'm ready to go do it again.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: Well, he's a very mentally strong guy, and I think
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: he will bounce back in that regard. There's also just
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: the reality of how much damage, and only he knows
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: how much damage he actually took in that fight, how
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: that affects him as well. Because you know as well
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: as anybody that there's only a few of those kind
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: of fights that you could have in your career. And
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: you've got to be very careful how you recover from those.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: And a lot of fighters, a lot of great fighters,
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: have made a mistake of coming back too soon. Volkanovsky
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: is one that I point to all the time, who's
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: arguably the greatest featherweight of all time. He is one
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: of the most masterful fighters in the game. He took
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: a short, short notice fight with Islam in the rematch
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: and got head kicked. And then I think it was
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: only four months later that he was fighting Ilya. And
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: that is crazy. That's a crazy thing to do. He
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: took a full head kick, shin to the dome, gets KO'd,
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: and then four months later he's fighting the fucking scariest
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: challenger that he's ever had to face. Right.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, 100%. You can't rush back into those things. I mean,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: especially when you're that cemented, you don't really need to
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: rush back into it.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: You have your legacy behind you.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Well, you shouldn't have even taken that fight with Islam.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: There's no way you should take a world championship fight
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: when you're hanging out with your buddies, drinking beer, eating
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: fish and chips or whatever the fuck he was doing.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: He's hunting with Volk over there.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: He's having a good time, but he wasn't in training.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: There's no way he was in training. He didn't look
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: like he was in training physically. His body didn't look
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: the same. Not only did he look out of shape,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: but he definitely looked smoother and less ripped than he
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: usually does.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: There's a difference to being in a two- or three-month
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: fight camp of day in, day out, two, three practices
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: a day. The diet's set. The mentality is set versus
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: I'm just training on the outside of that.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: When you came in on two days notice to fight Wellmaker,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: were you in training at all? Like what was your scenario?
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: I was doing a food eating championship training. I was
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: killing double doubles and three by threes. No, but with
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: that one, I was fortunate because I stay strict pretty
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: much year round. So I had fought in January at
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: the beginning of the year. And then I was supposed
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: to fight multiple times. And I just had. I had
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: two or three opponents pull out. And then I fought
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: November 7th. For the title fight for the A1 combat.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: Which was literally the weekend before. So. Fortunately I did.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: I was. Even though people were falling out. I kept
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: to the course. I stayed strong. I stayed in a
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: fight camp mentality. That November 7th fight ended up happening. So.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: I had a strong two months. Now. Still. Even that
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: one week difference of. go and be in a fight camp.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: And then I have a couple of drinks at the casino.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: I'm eating food. And I thought to myself, because January was,
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: it was a similar thing where they said, February, Australia,
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: get ready, get your passport. Let's look into this, blah, blah, blah.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: You know, I had a, had a nice knockout finish there. Um,
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: but then, yeah, it's just that one week of being
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: off of, of eating whatever I wanted to and just
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: kind of, doing whatever. I ran once. I showed up
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: to sparring and light touch sparred. I had gone to
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: one other practice because in my mind I was like,
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: I need to be somewhat ready for this. I can
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: have a week. I've been in fight camp all year long.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: I can have one week, and then that's the week
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: that they call. It's a 48-hour notice, MSG, 10-0 undefeated
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Malcolm Wellmaker if you want it. And then, of course,
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: I can't say no to that one.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: So had you fought the weekend before the Wellmaker fight?
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: I fought November 7th, yeah.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: Wow. That's actually good. If you didn't get hurt. Yeah.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Well, it was a minute and 30 seconds. I knocked
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: him out in the first round. So it was– to me,
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: it's just the stars aligned.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: I mean– Don't you think it's also good that you
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: just had the experience like seven days prior to the
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: whole thing, getting in the cage, cage shots. You just fought.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: So it's much more comfortable for you than if you
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: had– like Connor taking five years off. As elite as
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Connor is– double champ, one of the greatest of all
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: time for that. Even a guy like that, you take
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: five years off, and you could see what it did
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: to him. It fucked with his head. Oh, yeah.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: You could see it. There wasn't the same Conor energy
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: going into it. Of course, I always want a quick
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: turnaround after I fight just for that very reason. I
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: cut the weight. I know what that's like. I warmed
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: up in the back. With all the anticipation, you know,
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: and that energy flowing through my body, I walked out
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: in front of the crowd. They announced my name. I
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: got there. I actually fought someone. So, yeah, if you
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: have that going for you, then that's, yeah, it's way,
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: way better for sure.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the more active you can be, the more comfortable
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: you can be with the experience as long as you're
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: not getting hurt. Here's a stat that I was reading
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: about Izzy. And people forget about this. When he was
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: a champion, he defended his title a lot, man. He
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: was the guy that they can go, hey, we need
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: someone to headline this card. And Izzy would step in.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: And I think he fought three times. He defended the
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: world title three times in one year, which is crazy.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Because I don't think the middleweight title since he's gone
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: has even been. Like how many middleweight fights have there
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: even been for the title since he's been gone? There's
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: only been a few fights. I think there's only been.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's Sean and.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: And Drikus. Sean and Drikus, too. Drikus and Hamzat.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: And then Sean and Hamzat.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: And Sean and Hamzat. I mean, it might literally be, like,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: maybe five fights since he's lost the title. And, fuck,
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: he defended it more than anybody.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, which is crazy. He defended it three times
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: in one year.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: And then you have this... You know, a huge span
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: of time in between defenses.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: But then there's the question of, like, what is the...
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: When does it become a benefit, and when does it
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: become a detriment? Like, when you're fighting too many times
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: a year, like the Murab-Davish-Willie fight. One of the things
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: that a lot of people talked about after Piotr Jan
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: beat him in the rematch was, what about the strength
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: of schedule? I mean, Murab was fighting constantly. He was fighting...
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: He fought so often and for so many years. You've
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: got to think that at a certain point in time,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: maybe he's doing himself a disservice by being so active.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. I don't know. It's something you've got
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: to feel out for yourself. It's something that you have
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: to know in your heart of hearts, and nobody else
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: can tell you that. Your coach can't be like, no,
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: you're training really well these days. You're super sharp, this
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: and that. If something's off, realistically... You should be perfect
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: going into your fight, especially at a world championship caliber.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: I keep making these comparisons, but it's another thing that
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: I go back to with the boxing world is these
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: guys look at it as a business. Look at Floyd Mayweather.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: He made sure that the cage was his side. He
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: picked the gloves. It was certain people at certain times.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: There's some things to be said about that, but it's
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: a business mindset. It's a very smart approach to it.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: I'm fighting when I'm ready. I'm not fighting injured. which
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: is more of the main thing is people go in
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: there with injuries and get hurt or lose even. That
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: could be detrimental on your record. I think the MMA
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: guys are a little bit more on the tough side
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: instead of the business side of things where they'll fight
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: anyone anytime, which that's how you've got to be, but
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: that's how you build your team around you. You have
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: a team that tells you, hey, this time isn't necessarily
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: the best to go into it. and this and that,
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: and just being a little bit smarter about your schedule.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: it's like yeah us fighters are going to sit there
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: and go i'll fight anyone any given time um doesn't
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: matter but yeah this is this is a business it's
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: not just um fighting like getting in that cage solely
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: it's it's a lot of aspects that go into it.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Don't you think it's way more difficult to go into
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: a fight perfect in MMA than it is in boxing
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: though in boxing it seems like it's much easier to
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: avoid injuries.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: For sure there's there's there's differences I just I reflect
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: back to that I like the way that they conduct
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: themselves I think it's and there's a lot that's to
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: be said to that because it's it's a longer standing
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: sport there's been more time and experience into it but
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: yeah 100% I mean You know, I was, before this
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: April fight, the first round of the day of sparring,
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: I was just going light with Callum Bisping for literally
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: one second. And we moved around, and he's a heavyweight.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: We moved around. He tried to take me down. I
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: stuffed him. He took me down. And I kind of
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: just sat with it because I didn't want to get
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: caught in any knee-tweaking positions or anything because he's just
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: so much heavier than I am. And I sat into
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: a butterfly, which is typically how I would do that,
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: elevate the hips immediately and try to make a scramble.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: And my meniscus just popped instantly right then and there.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: First round of the day, barely had done anything, barely started.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't even like a crazy position. But, yeah,
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: now I've sustained injury. Now I don't go against heavyweights
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: anymore because I'm stupid.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you should never be doing that.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: It's stupid.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: As a bantamweight, you should not be sparring with heavyweights.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Well, that's why I go the first day. Or not
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: the first day, but the first round. I'm just trying
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: to warm up. There's a lot of things to be said.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: I grow and I learn and I get smarter every time.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: I think you should only spar with guys that are
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: reasonably close to your weight period.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: 10 pounds is probably a maximum above you. You know,
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: you shouldn't be going with anybody more than that. Yeah,
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: I get smarter with these things. I do dumb things
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: and I figure for the most of my history I've
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: had to learn the hard way with things so I'm
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: getting better at it. I'm getting smarter. But like I said,
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: it was just a freak thing. It wasn't like we
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: were going crazy hard or anything like It just was
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: the first round. I was just trying to move, and
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: then some little thing happened. How bad is it? It
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: wasn't a full tear, but it happened back in, like, February-ish,
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: right before that April one. So, leading up to the
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Esteban fight, it's like I didn't grapple until the last
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: maybe month of it.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: Oh, so it was bothering you even before that fight.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: It was all the way up to it. I mean,
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: that's when it happened was the April fight, which was
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: the Esteban fight.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: So... Yeah, it's very difficult to avoid everything. There's a
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: lot of different things that won't even seem like a
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: detrimental position. But yeah, you got grappling, which can tweak
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: all sorts of different parts of the body. A simple
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: cut from striking can happen very easily. So for sure,
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: it's much more abundant in the MMA world because there
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: are more weapons. There's a lot of variations of things
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: to watch out for. But that being said, I like
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: to carry... Like I said, this is a smart man's game.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: I like to carry a level of business-wise and smart-wise
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: to this. So though the exact functions may differ, it's
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: the mindset that I like to carry from it.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Right. Well, what you said is perfect, that it's a
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: long business. Boxing's been around for a long time. And
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: the really elite trainers, the really elite coaches, they know
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: how to prepare their fighters. And they know what fights
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: to take and when to take them. Right. And unfortunately
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: with the UFC, like sometimes you get a call like
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: the Malcolm Wellmaker fight, you know, and you're like, oh shit,
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: it would have been nice to get two months to
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: prepare for Malcolm, but I have two days.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: And I just fought, fuck it, roll the dice. And
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: you also were coming out of nowhere. And I don't
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: think a lot of people had time to prepare for
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: you because as good as you are, when you fought Wellmaker,
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: when you fought, uh, How do you.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: Say his name?
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: Estevan.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: What is his? Rafael Estevan.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: Rafael Estevan. He was also undefeated and super skillful. He
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: was a really good fighter and still is. But to
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: have those two performances in a row, the way you looked,
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: you looked like a guy like if you were 20
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: years ago, you would have been a fucking alien. Like
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: no one had seen anybody like you before. That's how
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: much this sport has grown just in 20 years. You
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: go back to like Ultimate Fighter Season 1. There was
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: fucking nobody like you. Nobody like you back then. It
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: really wasn't until Anderson burst onto the scene shortly after
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: that that we really got to see that kind of
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: elite level striking.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, yeah. Talk about an alien for that time.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: That was Anderson Silva. That's one of the top to
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: ever do it. There's no question. Oh, my God.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: People forget because maybe they see his later fights in
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: his career. But you go back and watch him when
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: he was in his prime. I remember when he fought
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: Chris Lieben. And Chris Lieben is a murderous puncher. Like
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: one of the hardest punchers that's ever fought in the UFC.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: He's one of those guys that's got that fucking God-given crack. Right.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: And he's just such a warrior. I mean, wades into
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: the storm, you know. But that style is tailor-made for him.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: And when I was looking at the odds, a friend
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: of mine was there. I go, bet the house on
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: the Brazilian. I go, bet the house on the Brazilian.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: I go, listen to me. This is a motherfucker, dude.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: Just wait. Because that's when he really came into his
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: own over in cage rage. That's when he really became
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Anderson Silva.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: That was a yellow cage? Was that a cage rage?
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: That's when he did that.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: The elbow? The crazy elbow? Yeah. With Tony Fricklin?
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. What was the... It was like a crescent up kick.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Was that pride or was that the cage rage? He
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: was on the bottom and he whipped his leg over
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: the top. It wasn't like a straight up kick. He
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: kind of like brought it over.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Ooh, I don't remember that one.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't recall either. Who was he fighting? I
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: don't know. I'm not good at names always.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: So in Pride, it was– who was he fighting here, Jamie?
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: Japanese gentleman. Yushin Okami. Oh, Yushin Okami. This was Rumble
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: on the Rock. This was BJ Penn's promotion. Look at that. Oh.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just doing things that like nobody had ever
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: thought of at that time.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: He gets that right leg loose, ties his hands up, ba-bow.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: That's crazy. And Okami was a beast. And they fought
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: again in the UFC later, and he KO'd Okami.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, stuff like that, the elbow you're talking about.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: Just a pioneer for it. It's not like he's watching film.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: He's not sitting on YouTube watching people do these things prior.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: He's the one that's coming up with this kind of stuff.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the crazy elbow. You know the funny
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: story about this elbow?
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: No.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: He was training that, and his coach told him, stop
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: doing that. You're not going to do that. And so
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: he made his wife hold pillows at home, and he
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: was practicing it at home. He was having her hold
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: a pillow, and he was just working on the mechanics
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: of that elbow. It's like he wanted to prove his
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: coach wrong. Right. And he wanted to get the knockout
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: with that technique.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: And lo and behold, he did it.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: Well, he had some great fights over there, particularly the
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: Lee Murray fight. Did you ever see that fight? Probably.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: You know who Lee Murray is, right?
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: He's the British dude that.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: Became a bank robber?
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: Was the bank robber, correct.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: Biggest heist in UK history?
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: And that was a bad dude, too.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: Oh, he was a bad motherfucker.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: At the time, everybody was scared of that dude.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: Well, that guy could crack. He was another guy who
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: had crazy power.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: And just a vicious dude. Just an absolutely vicious guy.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: That's the thing.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: He was a legitimate criminal.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. He had that whole aura and persona to him.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was a real gangster.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that brings a little bit more of this, you know,
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: I don't want to say fear, but like.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: Who's this guy?
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: You know, the fucking guy was an elite fighter and
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: he was also a elite criminal.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: He's multi-talented.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's something in a movie, like a guy
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: like who's a top tier criminal who also competes and
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: wins in the UFC. Right.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: And won by triangle. He beat Jorge Rivera by triangle.
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: And it's crazy.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: And you have, Anderson come in and just demolish this dude.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: He just wrecked him. And he wrecked him with technique.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: And it was a lot of it was leg kicks. Yeah.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: He just, Anderson's Muay Thai was at such a different level.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: It was so artistic.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's the perfect word to describe that
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: was artistic because it's just beautiful. The way he set
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: things up. I mean, he made elite guys look very
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: brand new in the cage. And I didn't see very
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: many close fights with him until later in his career.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a later in his career thing. And I
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: always say that with fighters, you really have to look
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: at them when they were at their highest RPM, whatever. Generally,
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: it's only a few years. But that few years, like,
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: judge them by that. Judge them by those performances when
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: they were just on fire. And I tell people you
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: have to always go back and watch those Anderson fights.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: When he front kicked Vitor in the face. First time
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: anybody had ever won by knockout with a front kick
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: to the face in the UFC. Now people do it
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: all the time. Right. But I didn't even think that
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: was a good option. Like there's a video of– and
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: I grew up kicking. There's a video of me and
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: Eddie Bravo. We're working with one of those Bob dummies.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: And he's like, what do you think about a front
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: kick to the face? I'm like, eh, it's better to
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: the body. I mean you could land it to the face,
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: but I don't really see very many guys do it.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: It's much more– Wrong. It's perfect.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: Just watch the Anderson Silva fight.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: And everybody does it now. So many guys get knockouts
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: with a front kick to the face because you don't
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: see it coming when it comes straight up the middle.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: If everything's coming around, then all of a sudden something
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: comes straight up the middle and catches the bottom of
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: your chin.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: For sure. I like that sideline. to the body, to
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: the liver, throwing that heel on the liver. I think
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: that's more of a natural motion, but I have been
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: working with the front kicks. I like them a lot. Uh,
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: especially with that, with the weight on the back leg
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: a little bit. And especially with these calf kicks, people
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: are really trying to bear down and throw the calf
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: kick hard. That's, that's, uh, What was going to be
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: my technique in my last one was when that calf
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: kick comes off the very beginning because that's what a
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: footer does. He comes out, he looks for his distance,
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: and he bases down, and he throws that calf kick
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: almost every single time against every opponent. And I was like,
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: you know, especially because I was planning on going there one-handed,
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: and I was like, I'm just going to pull this
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: front leg up, front kick to the face, and it's
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: going to land. It's going to be beautiful. But, yeah,
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: I started to work that. Like, you put all that
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: weight on that back leg. This one comes up fast.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: And the one I like better, especially with the boxing
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: as I come down here, is kind of getting that
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: lean forward and you're stepping back. And then when people
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: think your face is in range forward, you just pull
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: back and throw that one straight up the middle.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: And you're talking about off the front leg?
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: On the back leg on the second one. You're kind
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: of basing on here and you're stepping back onto the
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: back leg. And when they open up like they're going
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: to throw something.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: You lean back and throw it up the middle.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're changing the distance there. People don't expect it.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: For the calf kick, you're just light on the front
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: leg and you're throwing it off the front leg. Are
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: you sliding forward? Are you just picking it up and stabbing?
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: I just pick it up and stab it because they've
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: got to close a little bit of distance to get
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: that calf. That one's, you know, the kick is a
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: longer range, but that one you have to come a
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: little bit closer for me to throw it appropriately. Some
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: people smack it with the foot or whatever it is.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: I don't like that.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: I like that Dutch style, almost like a soccer kick.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: just you're raising it straight up, and that shin bone
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: is touching that soft calf. And so to do it
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: that way, I get a little bit closer distance, but
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: then that's where, you know, you set it up and
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: all the other stuff. It would be a little safer
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: doing it that way.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the calf kick is interesting because a lot of
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: guys are kind of just going straight up. Right. You know,
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: like you ever see Yuki Yoza fight? Uh-huh. He's one
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: of my favorite guys to watch fight.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: That's probably like the perfect example of throwing a very
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: deliberate and– Technical calf kick is how he does it.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: He destroys people's legs, destroys them, and he's kicking up.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: He's kicking up all the time, and there's no pivot,
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: and it's so fast. It's so fast, and there's no tell,
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: and he's throwing it in every combination. So he's hitting
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: you with a jab. He's inside low kicking you. The
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: left hook, he's outside low kicking you.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just smacking you from all the different levels.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: Constantly. And taking out your base every time. Right. Every
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: time you're close enough, he's taking out your base. Every time.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: Every time. From all angles. I love watching this guy fight.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: He does that cool thing, too. Like what he just did.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: Check out that. Watch it. They gave him trouble for
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: that because you're not supposed to do that in kickboxing.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: See how he does that? He hooks the guy's leg. Yeah.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: So he throws like a half-speed kick. Back it up
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: again so you can see that. He throws like a
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: half-speed kick, holds it, and then trips him.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: My dad was actually just talking about that one with me.
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: That's a very clean technique.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: But he is such a wild guy to watch because
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: of the damage that he does to guys' legs. So
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: this is what I love about the artistic aspect of
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: it and the technical aspect when people figure out, okay,
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: what do you do when you're fighting a guy like this? Well,
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: Jonathan Haggerty figured it out. It's constant switch stances, constant
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: knees to the body, moving, jabbing, constant movement. You never
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: let him get set up for those. And he took
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: a lot of leg kicks in that, but he landed
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: way more than he took, and he won the decision
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: against Yoso. It was a big win. But it was
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: also like a blueprint. Like if people got to see
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: that fight, they see it. So you can find that fight,
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: Jonathan Haggerty and Yuki Yoso.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: He did a really good job of picking that front
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: leg up. And that's– going back to MMA is something
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: that it's still developing, but I don't see a lot
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: of guys– defend the calf kick i see a lot
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: of guys willingly eat them yes and it's like you
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: do that with the shin guards on you could probably
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: spar all day and take calf kicks you know sort
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: of if they're landing clean like really clean yeah you're
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: gonna feel it yeah but for the most part you
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: pick the leg up you pull it back a little
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: bit it doesn't land super flush you could take it
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: with shin guards on you take You take one good
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: one with no shin guards on, it's a completely different game.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: It takes, you know, you're that leg away from you.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Superpower. Your doctor
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: spends eight minutes with you and your insurance decides what
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  Speaker 1: not institutions. Go to superpower.com slash rogan to save $ 50
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: on your membership. Yeah, so look how Jonathan is never stationary,
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: constantly switching stances. Look, I mean, literally constantly and constant movement.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: And then when you're thinking about the legs, the jab,
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: the step forward knee, everything is constant movement. There's never
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: a chance for Yosa to set up a nice spinning
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: back kick to the body there.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: That's so close, too.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: I know. He's wicked, man. This dude's wicked. But Haggerty
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: figured him out, man. Look at that. Outside low kick
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: on a hop. I mean, and constant stance switches and
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: that switch knee to the body. Look, Yosa's looking for those, man.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: You can only take so many of them from this guy, too.
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: He's got fucking stones for shins.
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's got no nerve endings on anything below the knees.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: It's really incredible, man. Watching this fight is a real
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: master class in striking. And this is one thing that
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: I always give credit to one for. I think one
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: has the absolute best strikers when it comes to just
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: pure striking. And the exciting guys that they have over there, incredible.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Azadullah Imam Ghazaliyev, you seen that guy fight?
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: He's my favorite. I fucking love watching that guy fight.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: It's like, Jesus Christ, he's good. And one of the
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: guys that he trains with just fought in the PFL, Megamedov.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: Did you see that fight? No. I forget how to
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: say his name. It's like, I think it's Abu or,
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: I forget his name. But he put on a master
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: class in striking. And he looked just like Azadullah Imam Ghazaliyev,
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: like the way he was fighting, like that style. Long, tall, striker.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: And these Dagestan guys, man. Dagestan's got elite Muay Thai, too.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: That's crazy. Yeah, that's the dude.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: Amru.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: Amru Magomedov.
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: Well, speaking of that.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: Show me a little bit of that. Because this cat,
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: he fights just like Asadullah. Like very similar. And I
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: know they're from the same place.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: You talk about artistic. That's like Zabit.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: Magomedov is another one.
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah. And he was kind of the first of
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: those guys that you go, oh, I think of these
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: guys as wrestlers.
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: But look at this guy. He's throwing 360 roundhouse kicks
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: and wheel kicks.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: He was doing like, I don't know. Not Kung Fu,
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: but one of those practices before he was ever wrestling. Yes.
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like Sanchu or something. But you watch
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: this cat fight. He fights just like Azadullah. He's got
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: that long reach, slick striking, wicked kicks. He throws a
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: lot of high kicks. And that dude Alvarez that he's
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: fighting was tough as shit, dude, because he took a
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: lot before he finally wilted.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: You could see he was hurting from the leg kicks
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: already before that.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: He's getting destroyed.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: This cat's vicious. Being a long guy like that is
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: just so much more beneficial. That's why everybody thinks it's
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: all these big muscle heads like the OG UFC. That's
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: the fighter build.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: The guy on top of the world.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: It's the tall, long, skinny guy that can strike well.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: That's the perfect MMA build.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because they can strike you from six inches away
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: from where you can strike them. That's a crazy advantage.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: Back to where it was with Ty on Thursday, whatever
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: it was. And he's like, I want to say he's
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: at 78-inch reach.
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: He's like, I have a 78-inch reach. He's like, so
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: I can touch you guys from this and that and
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: he's southpaw and blah, blah, blah. But I'm like, well, yeah.
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: That's like a light heavyweight reach. Yeah.
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: It's like, well, no. Dude, both of those guys have
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: crazy long reach. It's ridiculous.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: Real long arms, real long legs. Perfect for triangles. Perfect
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: for any kind of darts. Right. Guillotines, anything. Rear naked
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: with an arm in. Yeah.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: And then he fights southpaw like this. It's like you
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: can touch from a million miles away. That's what me,
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: I'm the opposite. My whole style is all the way
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: out or all the way in. I got to get
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: in and get to work in there, you know. And
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: there's something to be said about that too because those
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: two styles cancel each other out. If you have a
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: long guy, he's not going to fight as well on
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: the inside. It's not saying that he can't, especially with
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: the Muay Thai. The way they clinch is actually very efficient.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: And with the boxing stuff, opening stuff up and being
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: able to get your longer limbs in there is perfectly
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: viable as well. It's just... You've got to play off
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: of your God-given talents and your assets. And so the
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: shorter guy is going to negate the long guy by
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: getting inside. And if the long guy can maintain the
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: distance and keep him there, then he's going to win
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: that all the time.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's benefits to all body types. It's just knowing
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: what to do with that body type. Like, look, Mike
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: Tyson is arguably the greatest heavyweight of all time. He's
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: in the conversation with Ali and Joe Louis and– There's
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: a few guys that you could put into that category
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: as the greatest heavyweight of all time. And I think
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: Mike Tyson certainly in his prime was right there. Lennox Lewis,
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: you've got to put Lennox Lewis in that conversation. Even
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: prime time Larry Holmes, you got to put him in
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: that conversation.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: But Mike Tyson was five 11, you know, as a heavyweight,
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: that's crazy. And he was only like two 15, two
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: 20 in his prime, but that bombing and weaving and
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: constant movement, he would just overwhelm guys. You see the
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: tall guys putting their hands out. They just, they were
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: just dealing with this fucking Wolverine that was running towards them.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And, and I had just seen something from him
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: or read a quote and he, He said, it wasn't
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: my physicality that was my greatest asset. It was my elusiveness.
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: It was that I was so elusive that I could
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: get in and I could get to work, you know?
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: Yes. And a.
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: Lot of people, unless you're like a real practitioner or,
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: you know, a student of the sport, they don't see that.
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: They just see, they just see the bombs coming and
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: they attribute that to, he's got punching power. He's this monster,
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: but there's just so much more intricate, you know, it's
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: like you said about Anderson, like, This is an art form.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: It's a game of setting things up. It's a chess match.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: Everybody looks at it like it's checkers, but there's so
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: many more moves that could be made and that need
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: to be made to be the best at this.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: And you really want to be appreciated by the people
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: that understand that. You don't want to be the guy
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: that gives in to the howls and the cheers of
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: the casuals. The real feeling, the good feeling that fighters
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: get is when someone is a true student of the game.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: who really understands what they– like I love when you're
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: doing this. I love that thing you do. That's what
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: guys want to hear. They want to hear like from
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: their fellow fighters. Like if– like when an elite fighter
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: goes up to another elite fighter, it's like, bro, I
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: fucking love what you're doing. You can see they're like,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: thank you. It's like it hits different. It means more
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: when you know that a guy is really operating at
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: a very high level. Right.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because the rest of the people– I've never stepped
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: room into even a gym to spar or go a
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: couple rounds of grappling.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: Oftentimes they don't know what they're seeing.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: They have no understanding.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: Sometimes they think when the guy's missing, it's because he sucks.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: You know what is funny is that even I have
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: had that realization because growing up, it was like me
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: and my pops watching UFC. To me, that was my thing.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: But I would always sit there and go, well, why
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: doesn't this guy do this? It's right there. Just do that.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: It's right there. It's like, dude, you're not standing in
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: a cage surrounded by thousands of people You don't have
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: the same fatigue. You don't know injuries you're going into
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: with it. You don't know what you practiced leading up
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: to it that you even have the capacity to think
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: about and to act on. It's like there's just so
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: many things. So, like, I watch stuff now, and I'm
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: so much better at that because I'm sitting there going,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: he could do that, but I don't know what he's seeing.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: I don't know what's going on in his mind. So, yeah,
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: there's different levels to it.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's a very complex game.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: It really is. I wanted to ask you a question.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: Do you think that it was a benefit for you
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: to lose your first two fights? Do you think there's
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: maybe something to that? Because we were talking about your
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: first two opponents in the UFC being undefeated until they
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: fought you. They had never experienced loss as a professional before.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: And then they get on this crazy big hype thing.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: And there's something about being undefeated as well, especially when
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: you're a guy like Wellmaker who's not just undefeated but
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: a knockout artist. People get really, really jazzed up and
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: excited about that. Do you think that maybe having that
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: bad feeling of loss earlier in your career maybe grounded
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: you more?
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, certainly. I went 6-0 undefeated as an amateur. But
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: I can tell you at that time, I was not
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: living a fighter's lifestyle to the fullest. At that time,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: I would literally go to practice in the morning. And
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: then I had to go to work at night or whatever.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: But I was like, man, fighting is the best. You
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: just go wake up, practice once. You get to kick
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: it the whole rest of the day. You get to
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: go fight and make all this money and live your dream.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: That's all it takes. This is cool. And I went
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: in all these amateur scene fights, which that's what the
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: amateurs are for, for learning and getting your experience. But yeah,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: it really showed me that there was change that needed
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: to be made in what I did with fighting and
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: what I did outside of fighting and Outside of fighting
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: was arguably more important. There was a lot that I
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: needed to change. A lot that I needed to refocus on.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: And make right by. And it wasn't until I did
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: those things. That I saw this drastic change. It wasn't
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: until I erased all the negatives. And then filled it
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: with all the positives. That I'm able to be on
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: a 10 fight win streak. Doing what I'm doing now.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: Because who knows. Maybe I would have changed that.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: But.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: I don't think it would have been as drastic if
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: I hadn't experienced those two losses the way I did.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: So before those two losses, your first two professional fights,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: were you kind of fucking off?
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. What were you doing?
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: Just everything. I mean, drinking, partying, smoking, drinking, being a delinquent,
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: being not the best partner.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: How old were you back then?
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: I came back from college in 2017. I, uh, tore
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: my meniscus in a dual meet, and then my coach was.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: Same knee?
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: My right knee. Different knee. Coach was an asshole about it. Snap, crackle,
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: popped all the way through the rest of the season.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: Coach was an asshole about it?
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: In what way? Like, you didn't want to admit.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: He just ignored it, like, completely. He just pretty much
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: told me, suck it up. Oh, what a great coach. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: That's why I didn't go back. I mean, it was
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: a lot of things. I was in Bristol, Tennessee, so
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: it's like, There's not a whole lot to do out
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: there coming from SoCal. So that was a culture shock.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: I was on my own for the very first time.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: And then, yeah, I got hurt. So then I started,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: I don't know, everybody else is out there partying and stuff.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: I never partied. I grew up very religious. I was
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: very strict. All throughout high school, I didn't touch anything.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: I didn't look at anything. I didn't want to partake
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: in anything. I just wrestled. My only drug was wrestling
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: back then. That's all I did. And I had a
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: lot of success then. And it wasn't until I deviated
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: from that course... And I started finding fun or enjoyment
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: or maybe just trying to fill time and numb some
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: of the things that I was thinking about or worrying
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: about or that wrestling thing. It might not have been
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: the biggest thing to people, but for me, that was
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: my first time experiencing where I had just placed eighth
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: in the California state. I was fifth at the national tournament.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: I was just doing everything right. I had won the U.S.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: Open for my age division. And then I go to this,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: and I'm on my own for the first time, and
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: I have all this adversity, and it's just like, I
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: don't know. I just felt like, why is this happening
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: to me? I felt like I had been abandoned at
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: that point. And maybe other people would have recovered from
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: it better, but that was a first-time experience for me.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I was barely 19 years old around that time.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: I think I probably started fighting in the amateurs around 20.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: So I was relatively young. So that's when you started partying?
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: As soon as I tore my meniscus, I finished out
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: the wrestling season. And then I remember even school slouched off.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: I wasn't really caring about school too much. We had finals.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: I didn't really even try too hard. And then I went.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: I remember that day. As soon as the last final
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: was done, we all went to my buddy's house. And
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: that's the first time I ever got drunk, like ever.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: And it's not to say that those things are like
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: the end of the world if you're controlling them, but
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: I certainly wasn't, you know. I had like a lot
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: of compounding things being first time, and that carried over.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: It was like that all the way up until, yeah,
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: it was after that second loss. I was probably still
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: not doing what I needed to be doing to be
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: a disciplined athlete, a respectable, just like, you know, good person. Really.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: I wasn't, I wasn't being a good person. And, uh, yeah,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: there was, there was a lot of change, a lot
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: of growth. You know, I had a lot of people
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: guide me back into that. And as soon as I
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: made those changes, yeah, now, now I'm here, haven't been
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: able to live and experience it. Cause that's the best
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: teacher out of all of them. You know, you can
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: go and watch a YouTube video on how to do
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: something right. Like fix a car. Oh, I know exactly
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: where the alternator is. I know where this, this pump is.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: I know how this connects to this. Then the second
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: you open it up, it's like, okay, well, I didn't
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: know I needed this tool. And wow, this is really
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: way harder to pull off. And it's the experience. It's
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: the hardship and experience that teaches you things. So a
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: hundred percent, if I hadn't gone through that, who knows
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: where I'd be and what I'd be doing right now.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: When you hurt your knee in college, was that the
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: first time you'd ever done where you had an injury
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: where it completely compromised your ability to perform where you
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: realize like, oh, Like my body's very vulnerable.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: So I had actually sprained my ankle. It's called the
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: OC duels. It's like the number one and number two
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: in Orange County face off. And I had tore up
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: my ankle pretty good. And I was going into league
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: and then CIF and all that stuff. And I had
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: almost worried that I wouldn't be able to wrestle, which
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: is a big thing. Luckily, I was able to wrestle
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: on that. But yes, I guess the meniscus was probably
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: the first time where it really took me out of
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: my game like that. And to me, it was more
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: of a, I don't know if it was a vulnerability
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: of the body. Like I had come to terms with that.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: I understood that. I don't know. Maybe I thought there
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: was a higher power like protecting me. And at that moment,
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: like I was no longer protected and I had been abandoned.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: And that's kind of what got to me, honestly, is
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: I thought, Like God had abandoned me essentially at that time. Really?
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: You didn't think like maybe God, did you even consider
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: that it was a challenge?
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: I can look back on it and say with certainty
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: that it is.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: You were young.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: I was young and that's why I said I clouded
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: my mind with a bunch of other things and instead
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: of focused on it and thinking about it clearly, I just...
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: just moved farther away from the issue. So like at
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: that time, that's what I thought. Now being a mature man,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: having grown my relationship with God, having read and studied
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: and understanding that, like I said, that those hardships are
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: what build us, is that that's what tests our faith
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: and what really brings us closer to God. Now I
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: see that it wasn't as big as I had made it,
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: you know, but I learned and maybe falling farther down
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: the path taught me even more.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it does. I think failing is actually
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: a very good teacher. I really do. I think in
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: all aspects of your life. And especially when you're a
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: young person, you have this idea of who you are.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: Having that get knocked down where you have to rebuild
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: is very important. Because once you rebuild and you realize like, okay,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: now I know what I'm capable of. Now I know
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: that there's going to be ups and downs, but I
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: must maintain the path. Right. Did you have to get
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: your knee fixed? Did you have to do anything to it?
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they did a scope on it, so they shaved
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: the part that was hanging away, which to me, I
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: wish I had never done because that knee gives me
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: issues to today. Any of this inversion, like a triangle
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: choke with the right leg going over, that meniscus, it
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: was my lateral meniscus outside, it rolls over and it catches,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: so then I've got to bring my leg straight and
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: pop it back into place. It's gotten better. I get
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: through it quicker these days, but.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: They tell you to not even get that surgery now.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: Well, so that my, my second professional fight where I
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: got ankle locked, I got, uh, I think it was
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: like an outside reap and I went to sit up to,
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: to grab it. And he had the position locked in
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: my knee. Just went like eight times in my ear
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: real bad. And it was in the same exact spot,
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: that lateral meniscus, the outer, which, uh, I don't know what,
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: what other ligament is on the outside there, but, uh,
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: To me, it was like exactly where the meniscus on
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: the right leg had happened. But I grabbed up or
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: sat up. I grabbed his arms. I kept trying to
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: fight through it. And then he switched it over to
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: the heel hook on the other side. My ankle popped
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: twice as I rolled. And I finally tapped then. But
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: I didn't even get an MRI on that one. I
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: tried to. It took so long that I was doing
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: the knees over toes and strengthening. And I was starting
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: to move on it that by the time they're like, OK,
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: we can get your MRI in a week. I'm like, dude,
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: I'm already moving and exercising and doing stuff on this
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: like I was cool. But yeah, I never did anything
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: with that. And that knee's really never given me any issues.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: And then the one I got the scope on still
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: bothers me to today.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they don't recommend that anymore because they did a
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: study of people that have had meniscus surgery versus not
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: having meniscus surgery and just rehabilitation. And it shows that
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: rehabilitation seems to be the better path.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, especially for like, I have one that's been
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: scoped and it bothers me all the time. That's the
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: one I got shot up today. It always bothers me.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: It's like there's missing padding on one side of it.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: It's missing. But I had a bucket handle tear, and
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: in jiu-jitsu, it would lock, and my leg would be stiff,
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: and I had to push it back into place. It
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: was excruciating.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: It was like stuck, locked out?
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: It would go back eventually, but sometimes it would take
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: a day before, and it would swell up. But if
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: I knew.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: First of all, this was a long time ago. Unfortunately,
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: there was no stem cells available back then. I would
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: have 100% just done stem cells, and now I would
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: have done the knees over toes stuff and a lot
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: of cycling, like stationary bike cycling at not high resistance.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: It's a fairly low resistance. It's just repetitive motion. It's
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: really good for getting the blood flow to the knees
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: and really good for strengthening up the tendons and the
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: ligaments and everything, but without load. It's just You do
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: it at, like, a very low resistance and just for
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: a long time. Right. And that's really good for your knees. Sweet.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there's so many things. Like, I think even, like,
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: leg extensions would probably be, like, a good little exercise
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: for the knees. I mean, it's a pretty deliberate spot.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, like, backpacking, I think, like, a
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: controlled version of that because there's a lot of times,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: you know, you're dropping down, like, pretty heavily, this and that,
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: which is probably not the best impact on the knee. Yeah.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: But if you were doing it, like, cause that's kind
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: of the knees over toes is he's doing some similar motions.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: If you had some, maybe not as much weight, some
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: weight on your back, you could slowly kind of find
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: that and then have a soft landing. Like, I don't know.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: I was backpacking recently and I was just thinking about this, like,
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: like in a controlled setting, like in a gym, like
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: on a machine that I'm like, maybe not as much
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: as like a steep incline or decline, like something like
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: that would be really good. And then the range of
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: motion stuff is I've had, you know, with, with my
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: injury and stuff and time to step away, I've had
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: like a lot of, opportunity to think. And I feel
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: like I've, I've grown tremendously and it's like, yeah, all
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: the little tiny things like the knees, like they're fine.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: Like I do it. I really don't have an issue
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: too much. Like maybe if I get into that position,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: it'll do it. But it's like, you know, what happens
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: when I do get into like a position, let's say
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: a leg lock position, for example, or like a straight
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: knee bar. And you know, what if my, my flexibility
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: is an issue there, or just simply like a wizard
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: position where the knees getting popped up, like Just any.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: There's a million and one positions that the knees could
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: be compromised there. So, yeah, it's going back, doing a
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: lot of range of motion stuff, a lot of strengthening
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: on the knees.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: Do you do Poliquin step downs? Do you know those? No.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: Charles Poliquin. See if you can find Poliquin. It's very simple.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: You're essentially doing it. Either you're doing it from an
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: incline board with like a little bit of elevation or
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: you're just doing it from a straight up step. And
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: what you're doing is you're just lowering yourself down. So
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: one foot is above on the step and the other foot,
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: you're lowering like that, like there. There you go. He's
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: doing it on plates. Very simple. Very simple, right? I mean,
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: you're literally only going like 10 inches, but you're going
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: up and down like that. And it's just controlling the
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: body weight like that. Phenomenal for knee strengthening and for
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: knee stability. It's excellent. It's one of the best exercises. Sweet.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: Are you doing backwards pulls with, like, either a sled
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: or on a treadmill? Do you walk backwards doing that?
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: I'm not doing, like, really any exercises, weight, and, like,
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, I do little things, but for strength and
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: conditioning after boxing, but I stay away from the weights.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: But it's not even for the weights. I'm talking, I mean,
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: you do it on a treadmill. Okay. You do it
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: on a treadmill, just basically keep the treadmill off, and
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: just with your own resistance, you step backwards. Okay. So
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: you put your back to the screen and hold on
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: to the bars, and you're basically just pushing with your
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: legs going backwards. And it's really good for strengthening your
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: knees and also for blood flow. That's a knees over
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: toes guy thing.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: Okay. All right.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: His page is phenomenal.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: I'll go to the 24-hour fitness and burn out their treadmill.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. You can do that, or you could use
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: a sled. We do it with a sled here. Okay.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: You put the sled, you put like a waist strap,
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: and you just back up and pull the sled. It
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: doesn't have to be a lot of weight. It's not
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: a weight thing. It's really just a circulation thing and
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: a strengthening thing.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: He has another one that you get the band around
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: your back, and then you're kind of– I forgot how
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: he did it. You're essentially like leaned over and then
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: straightening the leg. You're like in a lunge, I guess, actually.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: You're in a lunge. The knee goes over the toes.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: You have the resistance on the back, and then you're
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: pushing and essentially doing the same thing as probably walking
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: back with the sled.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: The band is attached in the front or behind you?
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: It's attached in the front, so your resistance is pulling
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: you forward. Okay.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: And you're lunged over the knee, the knee over the toe,
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: and then you're extending that leg, and it's just hitting
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: that knee perfectly. It's very similar to the one you're
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: talking about, I'm sure.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because so much time you spend pushing forward, and
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: not a lot of people spend much time pushing backwards.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: But pushing backwards is really important. Right. It's really important
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: to just overall knee strength.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: Right. I think the side-to-side stuff, too, is, like, I
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: was almost like, let me get in the sand. And
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: I do a lot of, like, working out in the
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: sand just for the boxing, for the footwork and being
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: able to stay in a stance. But, like, that little, like,
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: side explosion stuff would probably start strengthening those muscles on
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: the side and the ligaments going that way. And then
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to think, like, you know, how do you
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: get that– that motion. I mean, you could get a
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: band and probably like do a kind of like a
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: lateral extension or pull it up into your, like an
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: inward extension.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: You know, he used to do a lot of weird
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: shit with bands, BJ Penn. Oh yeah. He did a
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: lot of weird shit in his prime with like flexibility
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: stuff and developing strength from weird positions with bands. Huh?
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I see, uh, I don't know if BJ was,
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: was a part of that program, but like the Rafael
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: dos Anjos, all the fascia kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, Rafael Dos Anjos was training with Nick Curzon.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: Nick Curzon was a student of Marv Marinovich. And Marv
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: Marinovich is the guy who trained BJ when he was
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: in his prime, when he really got super serious about cardio.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: But it's a very controversial approach. The Marinovich's approach was
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: you already know how to fight, so forget about fight training.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: We're just going to give you the most fucking insane
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: gas tank you've ever had, and that way you'll be
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: able to execute everything you want. And so the primary
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: focus was just plyometrics and their conditioning program. And it
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: was hell. Right. And BJ did not like going through it.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: But when he went through it, he was like unstoppable
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: because he just never gassed.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: And that's the interesting thing. about conditioning in general is
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: we have these ideas of what the threshold is, like
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: what a human body is capable of doing for five minutes,
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: for three rounds or five rounds, like in terms of
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: what kind of pace that you could put up. And
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: then you have certain guys that come along that sort
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: of redefine what the threshold is, like Merab. Rob comes along,
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: and here you got some guy whose gas tank is
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: fucking superhuman. And he makes the best fighters in the
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: world just wilt under this constant pressure being taken down.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: And his strength and his skill as a wrestler is
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: just this constant attack, constant, constant, constant, constant. And you wonder, like, okay,
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: how long did it take to build up that reserve?
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: How long did it take to build up that gas tank?
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: That's not something you can achieve in just one camp. Right.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: Like that's, that's something that takes literally years to develop.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: Oh, for sure. That's why, I mean, like I said,
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: going back to wrestling, my, my, what, what I would say,
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: my superpower, my most utilized skillset was my, my cardio,
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: my gas tank, you know? Um, and I don't know,
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: what is it? Anabolic versus anaerobic, like the striking versus
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: the grappling cardio. I think there's something to be said
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: about that wrestling cardio. Like, just that like strict, you're
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: just grinding it out 24-7. You know, you're always colliding.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: Your muscles are always tensed up. I think there's something
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: to be said about that, that if you had great
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: wrestling cardio, you could do almost anything in the world.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: It builds up a foundation that's kind of unstoppable. Right.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: If you can maintain that kind of work ethic. Right.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: That's the other thing about it. It's the mental toughness
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: that comes from wrestling. Right. When a guy has like
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: an elite wrestling background and he enters into the UFC,
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: I always say, They have an advantage. They have an
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: advantage over everybody else because whether or not you choose
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: to put yourself or you get coached by someone who
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: puts you through hell in camp, with wrestling, you don't
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: have a choice. Everyone's going through hell. There's no easy
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: path to get on a fucking wrestling team anywhere in
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: the country.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: You have to wrestle for your position. It's literal. You've
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: got to battle for that spot. And then the practice
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: is once or twice a day of just purely grinding
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: it out. Staying in a wrestling stance alone is extremely
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: tough to do now you're doing it at elevated pace
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: now you're doing it with someone snapping on your head
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: now you're just like and then you go and you
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: do live wrestling and then finish it up with sprints
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: yeah to me to me there's nothing that beats that
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: like and and i think the the style of it
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: is like go go go like even jujitsu you're finding
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: places to rest you know you can throw on in
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: the guard and and you can you can rest in
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: certain entanglements striking is all about being able to have
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: an explosive motion and then find your way to, to
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: be defensive, to slow down what they're doing. You're either,
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: you're getting in stuff in it. You're at a distance
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: where you can be a little bit relaxed because they
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: can't reach you. Or, you know, you're, you're moving off,
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: making the miss where there's no resistance there. You know,
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: I just, with wrestling, you don't have any of that. There's,
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: there's no chance for a break, especially if you've got
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: someone like Rob, who's just on you 24 seven. And
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: so to me, that's, you know, back to the cardio
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: thing we talked about earlier. I don't know. I, I
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: think if you've got elite wrestling cardio, then you could
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: do all the rest of it. You'd be able to strike.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: You'd be able to do the jiu-jitsu entanglements. You can
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: hang for that duration of time with great cardio.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: It's also if you can figure out how to be
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: a great wrestler, you can kind of figure out anything.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: It's just a matter of taking that same focus that
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: turned you into a great wrestler and applying it to
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: whatever it is, MMA, whatever else you're trying to do.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: If you're willing to go through what it took to
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: become a great wrestler... That's an extraordinary human. Very few
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: people ever reach a very high level of wrestling. It's
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: just too fucking hard. And it's the best foundation for
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: combat sports, for sure, for MMA. Because if you can
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: take a guy down and he can't take you down,
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: that's a massive advantage. Massive. You dictate where the fight
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: takes place. And if you develop elite striking on top
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: of that, it's a perfect combination.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: Oh, for sure. I mean, anybody asking me personally, I
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: would say get a wrestling background. get some boxing, you
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: can figure out the rest of it. You can figure
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: out how to check kicks, block kicks. You can do
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: the rest of it. But if you have those two
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: fundamental core bases, yeah, you're pretty good against most people.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: I would say that too, but I would say another
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: thing is, and this is very controversial. If I was
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: teaching a young kid, I would say get into point karate.
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: Learn point karate. Because if you could learn how to
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: move the way those guys move, The things that those guys,
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: when you see like Michael Venom Page just stump people,
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: they're just stumped. Like, I don't have any, like Kevin Holland,
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: who is, fights everybody. He's fucking competitive with everybody he fights.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: With MVP, he was just stumped. Like, what am I
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: going to, what the fuck am I doing? I can't
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: even touch this guy. Right. That is a giant skill set.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: And I always said before MVP came onto the scene,
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: I'm like, one of these guys, one of these really
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: elite point fighter guys is going to come in and
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: start fucking everybody up because you can't hit them. Yeah.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And that goes back like him and like wonder
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: boy are both the prime examples of a karate style individual.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: Um, and they're really long, so, you know, they can
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: utilize that a little bit to their advantage with that,
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 2: that lungy in and out. But to be honest, yeah,
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: that's something that like I've wanted to delve into a
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: little bit more with myself. Cause I like, I can
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: throw kicks really well. Honestly, I have, I have good flexibility.
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: I have the ability to throw them with speed, with power. Um,
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: But having something like that where you can throw it
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: nice and fast and snappy, those little sidekicks, and the
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: way that they throw the kicks is great. I mean,
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: the only other relation I would have to that is
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: the Savat style. I like the way the Savat style
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: guys throw their kicks.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: I'm not very familiar with Savat.
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: The only thing that I don't utilize myself is a
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: lot of the toe stuff because I'm not wearing shoes. Oh,
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: like toe kicks to the body? They're, like, stabbing you
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: with their toes and everything. Like, they're even kicking, like,
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: your leg.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, Yosa does that. He stabs guys in
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: the body with his toes.
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: It's like the ball of his foot, right?
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: Well, he's going in with the toes, man.
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of, like, slow-mo videos of him stabbing
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: guys in the liver with his fucking toes.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: You know who else is really good?
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: They're conditioning their toes. Yeah.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing is you better have some. You
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: probably have multiple breaks on each toe. 100%. Yeah. Because
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: it's just that's why we were talking about the front kick.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: To the body is good if you do it like
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: a traditional Muay Thai where you're going up and out.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: Which is fantastic. You can produce a lot of speed
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: and power. But I think everybody does this kind of
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: shovel up toes into the body kick nowadays in the
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: MMA world. That's what I see more so. I mean,
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: Conor utilized the heck out of that. Most guys bring
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: the toes up. And you better be very precise with
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: that because all it takes is one elbow blocking down
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: and your toes out.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: Did you see Rodriguez's toes after he fought Fluffy?
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: Did you see that picture? Jim, pull that picture up.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: It's off Gregory Rodriguez, his Instagram page. After he beat Fluffy,
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: he showed a photo. You haven't seen it?
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: I haven't seen it, actually.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, you're going to cringe.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: It's hell. Is it like a John Jones break?
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: Worse. The bones aren't sticking out, but it's hellacious. You
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: look at what happened to his toes.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: Dude, that one, like, that takes it out of you.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: You start smashing your toes like that, and you've got
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: to continue fighting.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: Or you've got to continue into a fight camp with, like,
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: broken toes. Yeah.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: That's one of my wrestling camps. I was chasing my
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: brother in the front yard the day before, and his
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: heel came back, and my pinky toe was like this,
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: straight sideways. Went to the family doctor.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: Look at that.
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. I have a picture just like that, actually,
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: with my fingers, my toes thrown west side.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, look at that. Jesus.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: Ow! Yeah, that's terrible.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: Those feet have seen some elbows, son. Right?
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: It's got a big old bunion and everything on there. Wow. Yeah, that's...
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: And he won. He did it in really good fashion, too.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. There's a guy that's just, I don't understand how
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: he makes 185. Right. I don't understand it. Whenever I
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: interview him, I'm like, you're 220 pounds, sir.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: You're at least 220 and shredded. I know.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's like I guess the bigger guys have
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: a little bit more to lose. They probably float a
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: little bit.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: They definitely do. With all that muscle, you have water
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: to lose for sure. Right.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: If you're shredded, I mean, that's one thing to be said.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: But especially, like, heavyweights, like the Alex Paredes, I'm sure
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: he gets a little bit looser, goes up to 220.
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: But that's still 40 pounds. I mean, that's a lot
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: of weight.
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lot of weight to lose. But I
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, look at Aljo cutting to 135.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: He's, like, 175 pounds.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: But he doesn't do it anymore, and he feels way
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: better at 45. For sure.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: And he had to move up because of that. I
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: think a lot of the bantamweights get up to relatively
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: that weight. I think everybody– I think that's why I've
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: started seeing people try to comment the whole weight bully thing.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: They've said it to me on Instagram, this and that.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: They saw one of my training pictures where I was
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: a little loose, and they're like– the funniest comment was
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: someone was like, hire a nutritionist ASAP. Yeah. And I
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: was just cracking up at that. Like, these guys are
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 2: roasting me. But, yeah, I think everybody cuts relatively the
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: same amount of weight.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: How big do you get? Like, what's the heaviest you
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: get in between? 135. No. That's what you weigh, son.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: What do you weigh when you're thickening up? What's the
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: heaviest you've ever been?
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: Like 175 is probably give or take. Maybe like 178
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: if I'm just full of food, eating and being a delinquent. But, yeah,
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: I get out there pretty big.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: But when you're in camp, like the week before, what
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: do you like to be at?
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: I've had all my cuts right around 150. I don't
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: really get much lower than that.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: That's not too bad.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: It's not the end of the world. I mean, 149, 148.
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: 145 would be beautiful. If I could just do 10,
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: it would be no problem. But this last time we
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: did 11 in one night, and it was smooth sailing.
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: That's another thing. You experience it more, you get better
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 2: and better at it. And I've gotten wiser that the
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: sauna doesn't have to be a million and ten degrees.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 2: The USC portable saunas, I think I maxed out at 150,
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: it said. And I could sit in that for 22,
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: 25 minutes.
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: Is that a red light sauna?
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: The portable ones probably is, right?
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 2: Probably is. I don't recall, but I'm sure it is.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: But that with the emergency blankets and then cooling off
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: in between, that's something that I had to get wiser
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: to as well. Because everybody tries to tell you you're
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: already there, you're already sweating. Don't lose the heat. And
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: it's like, no, dude, this isn't a sprint. This is
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: a marathon. We're taking this nice and easy. So this
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: last time I was taking all my gear off, putting
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: ice on the body, cooling the body temperature back down,
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 2: which is– arguably the most important aspect of the whole
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: weight cut is the body temperature versus the dehydration because
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: the body gets dehydrated and it has more of a
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 2: capacity to deal with that than it does to overheat
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: if you overheat you're done for like that's it is
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: what it is.
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: So is the overheating does that drain you more in
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: terms of like your ability to recover for the next
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: day like so when you're cutting weight if you're doing
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: it like 180 or something like that something high and
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: is it that like because it does wear you out
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: obviously like If I do a sauna session for 20
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: minutes when I get out, I'm tired.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: So you've got to think if you're doing multiple ones
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: of those, if you're trying to make weight and then
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: you have to fight the next day, you went through
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: a lot physically. Right. As opposed to what you're doing.
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: If you got it at 150, it's not that bad.
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: It's just, just sucks a little.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Cause I've done both like, and, and, and that's,
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: you're throwing a sauna suit on as well. You know,
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: the sweet sweat, the sauna suit, and then you get
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: in that, that portable sauna. But it's like before I was,
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: I was doing that with a pair of, of, I
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 2: don't know, like a spandex, you know, like top and
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: bottom and then a jacket and then sweats and then
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: a big jacket. And then I'm getting in the 180,
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: 190 degree, 24 hour sauna and sitting there for 15 minutes.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: It's like, it's like, dude, yeah, I felt there's, there's
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: been weight cuts where I just feel like a, like
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 2: terrible atrocious. I look terrible, you know? And then I
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: have some of these more recent ones where I, I
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: lower the temperature down. I, I, Extend the duration of
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: how long the weight cut is itself. And there's a
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 2: major difference in it for sure.
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: That's really good advice. Work smarter, not harder.
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: You've trained for two months over just pushing your body
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: to the absolute limit. You're going to go fight somebody
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: for 15 minutes, possibly 25 minutes. There's all this hard
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: stuff already happening. That part should not be hard. It's
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: going to be hard, but you should make it as
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: easy as possible. That should be the mindset to it.
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes sense. It makes a lot of sense.
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: Did you see the Moses Itama fight this weekend? I
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: don't think so. Do you know who he is, right? No. No?
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: He, up until this fight, was probably the most promising
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: prospect in the heavyweight division in more than a decade.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: He is a young guy. He's only 21 years old.
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: And people were talking about him being able to break
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: Mike Tyson's record of being the youngest ever heavyweight champion.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: So he missed that mark. And then he finally got
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: a title fight this weekend. Looked phenomenal for the first
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: few rounds.
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: Oh, I know exactly what you're talking about.
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: Yes. And he was fighting this big Croatian cat. I
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: forget his name.
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: Filip Hergozovic. And he couldn't.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: Stunt on him at first.
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. At the beginning, he was tuning this guy up.
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, he's so fast and so elite. But. He
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: had never been into deep water before. Every one of
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: his fights, he'd be able to stop people. And he
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: hadn't had any like real good decision wins where he
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: fought a bit. And he's not the biggest heavyweight, but
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: he's wicked fast. I mean, just wicked fast and beautiful technique.
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: But as the fight went on, he started to fade.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: And in the eighth, you could see him like really
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: slowing down and just really tried to take this dude out,
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: but couldn't and thought he could. It was empty in
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: the gas tank. Instead of boxing him and just outpointing
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: him and being skillful, he just was inexperienced. And he
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: emptied the gas tank. And then Philip came back, man.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he finished him.
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, he finished him in a weird way. It's
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: almost exhaustion.
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was just stumbling over himself at that point.
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: Because they're both exhausted because it was a war. There's
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: a nice right hand. And he stung him there.
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: Well, did you see their little table talk where they're
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: sitting across from each other? And he's all like, it's
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 2: not about... you know, like how many times you can
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: get hit or you can hit somebody. It's about how
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: many times you can get hit and keep coming forward.
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: And then that Moises is like, that's the stupidest thing
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: I've ever heard. He's like, why would you base your
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: fighting style off? Like how many times you can get hit?
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 2: And then lo and behold, you know, like this comes across.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 2: That's why, you know, I talk about technicality and finesse
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 2: and skillset and it's a game of hit and don't
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: get hit. But dude, you could just have someone who's
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: just so tough and just so willing that this is
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 2: a perfect scenario that that's, That's why there are so
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 2: many aspects to this fight game.
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: Well, it was really funny because he was basically quoting Rocky.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: He really did quote Rocky. It ain't about how hard
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: you hit.
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: It's about how hard you can get hit.
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: Right. And keep moving forward.
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: And he pulled a Rocky on him. He literally did
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: exactly what he said he was going to do. But
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: it's all these things. It's like youth and hubris and
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: thinking you're the greatest of all time and looked like
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: the greatest of all time. Pull up a Moses Itama
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: highlight reel. Because if you look at his highlight reel,
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: you're like, this guy's the second coming. Like, this guy
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: is something really special, man. When you watch how he fights,
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, his hand speed, his knockout power. And for
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: a young guy, you know, this fight, I think he
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: was 20. And you look at his highlight reel, you're like, oh,
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: my God, the sky's the limit for this kid. He's
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: just putting everybody out. But, you know, he wasn't really
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: being tested, you know. And then he finally, I think...
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: Was it Derek Chisora? Who did he fight before this fight?
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: He finally beat a top-level guy, and he took him out. But,
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: you know, it was a guy who's a real veteran,
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: been around a long time. And he kind of thought
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: that he could put it on everybody and knock everybody out. But,
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: you know, this is like one of the things about
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: any combat sport is you have to know when to
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: hit the gas... when not to, and you have to
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: have those experiences of these long, grueling fights, and he
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: really didn't have that yet. So his first experience with a, yeah,
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: Dillian White, that's who it was. And his long, his
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: first experience with a real, no, it was Chisora, I think,
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: because I think it was Dillian White first, and then
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: Chisora was the next fight afterwards. Am I right about that?
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 3: No, it's just his KOs on this video.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: What is it? Pull up his record. Who was his
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: last fight before Hergovich? But, I mean, I still think
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: he's got potential to be a world champion for sure.
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, the kid's only 21 years old. Dillian White
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: right there. That's who it was. It wasn't Derek Chisora.
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: It was Dillian White. Jermaine Franklin was right after that.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: So every fight has been TKO, TKO, TKO, TKO, TKO.
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you watch his fights, I mean, they're
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: fucking stunning performances. But wasn't really being tested in that
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: way with a really big, durable heavyweight who could take
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: a shot, who, you know, has a ton of experience. And,
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: you know, now he's got his first loss, but he'll
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: be back. Yeah. He's only 21. Well, that's, you know, on.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: The— that' s how they do it in boxing. They feed these guys,
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 2: build them up. And then when they're solidified, now you
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: fight somebody who's substantial. I've done a lot of comparisons,
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: but that's, to me, where the MMA guys are just
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: more down to go and do their thing. They'll fight
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: anybody at any given time pretty quick.
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: Is that by decision, though, or is that by necessity?
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: Because the UFC, if they call you up and say, hey,
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: in four weeks, do you want to fight for the
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: world title? I know you've never fought in the UFC before.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: In boxing, that's unheard of. That would never take place.
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: But in the UFC, if you're a pretty good fighter
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: and you're doing well and you win a bunch of
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: championships in other organizations and all of a sudden this
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: opportunity arises, we've had guys with their first fight in
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: the UFC fight for the world title.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: That is true. I mean, that's what you get when
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: you have a melting pot of things, though, because those
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: guys are well-established in their own personal lives. careers in
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: maybe wrestling or kickboxing or whatever it is horizon yeah
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: it's not like you're pulling out like the local kid
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: telling him let's go fight for a world title i mean.
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: But they would put all pull out the local kid
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: and fight a guy who has 10 15 fights in
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: the ufc that does happen that happens all the time.
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: Well that's what i'm saying is like i think that
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: the boxers would be more hesitant to take something like that,
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: like you're saying. But the MMA guys are always down
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: to do that kind of stuff.
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: Well, the boxers, though.
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: It's a different culture, I suppose.
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: It is, but it's also the fact that no one
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: gives a shit who the promoter is in boxing. If
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: someone's going to watch Gervonta Davis fight, they don't say, well,
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: who's performing? Hold on. Is this for Bob Arum? Is
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: this for Golden Boy? No one cares. It's just who
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: are the fighters. With the UFC, it's a very different animal.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: So if you get a call for the UFC, like,
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: oh my God, we're in the big leagues. And that's different.
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: They have all sorts of different promotions and different people
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: you can fight for in boxing, but UFC is the pinnacle.
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: If you get the call from the UFC, that's where
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: you want to go. There's a whole lot of differences
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 2: to it. I just think whatever it is that Yeah,
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: the MMA guys are more willing to step in on
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 2: the short notice and put their careers at risk and
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: put their opportunities to continue fight streaks or whatever at
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 2: a risk. So that's how I see it. That's what
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 2: I picked up from those two different things.
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's definitely a different culture, right? It's a culture
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: of accepting those risks and also of probably people that
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: are just much more willing to take a chance, it seems. Yeah.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: Exactly. That's why I think, like, that's us a little
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 2: bit more padded up to it.
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: A little bit more wild to be fighting MMA anyway.
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 2: It's a little bit more wild for sure. Yeah. And
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 2: that's a little bit more of a business, I would say,
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 2: in my opinion.
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: The boxing.
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: The boxing is. Which.
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: Well, you've got a lot of, like, very smart people
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: involved in boxing that are, like, managers and trainers that are, like.
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: really working to build a guy and turn him into
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: a prospect, turn him into a contender, and then turn
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: him into a champion.
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 2: In the UFC, you only have the one organization doing that.
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: And they're managing all the weight classes and all the prospects,
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: and they're picking and choosing certain fights.
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: Not only that, they schedule fights around cards. They don't
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: schedule cards around fights, right? So, like, say if Canelo
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: Alvarez is fighting someone, It is– whenever Canelo's ready to fight,
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: that's when the card takes place. Yeah. Right? So Canelo
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: Alvarez wants to fight September 12th. Okay, great. September 12th,
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: let's put together a fight card around Canelo Alvarez.
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: With the UFC, it's like the UFC's coming to Salt
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: Lake City October 3rd. Who's there? Right. Who wants to fight?
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: We're going to have a fight. Who's going to be
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: on the fight? Who's going to be on the card?
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: And then you put the card together. So it's a
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 1: different animal.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, they're different for sure. Yeah. I mean, I
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 2: try to draw wisdom from all aspects of everything. So–
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: I'm constantly delving into all the different realms myself.
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: Do you, uh, read a lot? Are you a guy who,
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: do you like read any things on, on psychology or
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: on warrior tactics? You ever get into like book of
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: five rings or any of that shit?
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: For sure. I'm reading, uh, it's called Hog Akari right now.
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: And it's essentially, um, it's a, it's a single individual Yamamoto.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: It's like Tunisian or something. I forget his name exactly, but,
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: He served for the reigning leader at the time. His
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: leader passed away. He wanted to commit seppuku because he
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: was of that warrior mentality, but his leader had commanded
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: that no one was allowed to do that. This and that,
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: but he's taken a lot of storylines, inspirations from all
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: these samurai because it's going into a time period where
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: the samurai weren't a necessity anymore. And so... The ideology,
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: the lifestyle, what it meant to live that Bushido lifestyle
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 2: had changed a little bit, and their purpose was different.
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: And my boxing coach gave it to me, actually, when
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 2: I was kind of in this limbo state of, like,
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: it's essentially saying, how should a warrior live outside of
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: the fight? You know, like, what does he need to
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 2: be doing on a daily basis? But then it's, I
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 2: like the real-life, like, storyline, because now you're getting a
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 2: bunch of different perspectives from all these people that were samurai,
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 2: all were warriors who lived that, who, you know, fought
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 2: in battle. And now you get to see like a
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 2: lot of different things. Like someone says, you should do this.
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: And someone says, no, don't do that. And to me,
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 2: I like that because I get to kind of delve
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 2: through all the mindsets and then apply what works best
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: to me, you know, but I love, I love reading
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 2: all that stuff. I've not been so good at staying
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 2: off the phone and, you know, I watch a lot
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: of YouTube, which is, it's always fighting or, some kind
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 2: of gun channel or hiking or camping or hunting or
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 2: spearfishing or something. But, yeah, I'm trying to get way
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 2: better at that. I'm trying to stay off the screens.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: Like I want to be more interactive with the world
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 2: around me, learning things constantly. And so picking up a
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: book and reading it is along that set of goals
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: that I have is continuously be doing that.
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's benefits to a lot of stuff
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: on YouTube. I think YouTube is not social media, and
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: I think I learn a lot on YouTube. For me,
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: I like to wind down on YouTube, just watch some
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: ancient history thing or watch a professional pool match or
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: something like that. It's just a wind-down time. But it
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: doesn't feel like I'm wasting time, whereas if I'm looking
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 1: at Instagram or Twitter or whatever, it feels like I'm
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: doing something I shouldn't be doing that's not beneficial.
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, 100%. To me, as I'm building up my platform
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: and whatnot, I understand it as a business. And so
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: I understand there's some necessity for me to be into it,
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: producing content, not necessarily taking in content. But yeah, a
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 2: hundred percent. It's, it's something that has affected our culture
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: in a large way. It's all the, the, what's it called?
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 2: Like the short term, like media, you know, where you're
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 2: clicking through it. It's just, it's killing our attention spans. It's,
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 2: it's just like, you know, your dopamine is, is firing
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 2: at all times going crazy.
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: It just robs your focus.
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You're getting this, like, that's where, that's where I
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 2: love the YouTube, but I almost have to recognize that
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: just because I'm watching a spearfishing video doesn't mean I'm
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 2: getting in the water and going and spearfishing. Cause sometimes
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 2: I feel like I get my fix a little bit
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: by doing that, but then I have to remind myself,
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 2: it's like, uh, life is lived and your actions and, and,
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 2: in your experiences. So sitting and watching the TV screen,
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 2: somebody else experienced that, you know, you, you get the
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 2: inside scoop. You got to kind of be there under
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 2: the water, watch what's going on, but yeah, you're not
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 2: actually living it. So I like it. I love, I
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 2: love to, to learn from that social media.
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 2: It's, it sucks. It's zapping everybody.
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: And, uh, it's certainly not a part of the warrior lifestyle. Yeah.
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 1: As you were talking about. Oh, for sure.
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, cause then like you want to think about
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: like your, your meditative aspects of like how often, uh,
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 2: Are you delving deep into your own brain and just
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 2: figuring out things about yourself and asking those questions and
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 2: pushing beyond? And when you've got a phone screen stealing
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 2: all your attention, how are you ever doing that?
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, absolutely. You're not. You're not, you know, if
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: you're spending so much time doing that. You're a spearfisher guy, huh?
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: You really like spearfishing?
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 2: I like to spearfish. It's been some time since I've
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 2: been back in the water. I had a buddy that
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: we used to go all the time, and then he
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 2: moved up to Washington. And I don't know.
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: Where are you guys spearfishing?
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 2: We go local. Like, there's a Corona Del Mar beach,
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 2: and then there's a smaller kind of hidden beach that
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 2: you walk down, and it's got plenty of structure and
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 2: all sorts of fish out there. Laguna's got the kelp forest.
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 2: So I've just been going shore diving and going over there,
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 2: grabbing lobster when it's lobster season, grabbing down to the
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 2: honey holes and just grabbing them with our hands. So
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 2: it's all the shore stuff right now. I haven't been
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 2: off a boat.
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: It's for... My friends that have been hunting, they say
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: they love it because they say it's like hunting underwater.
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: It's not really like fishing. You call it spearfishing, but
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: it feels like you're hunting.
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 2: It's, yeah, you're in the action, you know. You get
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 2: to pick and choose which fish you're going to take,
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: which one to let go. And, yeah, you're also, I
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 2: like it because I like the primitive aspects. Like we
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 2: talked about like a little bit of bow hunting before.
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 2: I'm really enthralled with the bow hunting stuff over the
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 2: rifle hunt because, dude, you can sit at like three, four.
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: Sometimes guys are shooting about like a 500 yards with
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 2: this big old rifle and you're just smacking something. It's
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 2: like that thing didn't even like ever know you were there.
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 2: You know, you're just like propped up and there's a
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 2: place for it, I suppose. But having a bow and
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 2: have to get up 30-ish yards, give or take, and
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 2: having to make sure they're not catching your scent and
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 2: having to perform the stock. I like the primitive stuff.
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: I like it.
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 2: I like something that involves a skill set instead of
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 2: just like a technological prowess.
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: No, I agree with you, obviously. I'm a big bow hunter.
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: I don't think there's anything wrong with rifle hunting, and
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 1: it's definitely the best way to acquire meat. If you're
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: just going on a meat hunt and you just want
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: to get your meat for the next few months, a
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: rifle is the way to go. But if you want
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: a real challenge, there's something that's way more special about
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: a bow hunt. It's more difficult. It requires more practice.
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: It requires more of you. Like, I went on a
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: pig hunt about a year or so ago with a
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: friend of mine in California where we had had a
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: successful elk hunt and then we went pig hunting. And
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 1: I hadn't shot a rifle in two years, a year
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: and a half, two years. Like, not one shot with
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: a rifle. Aced this pig at, like, 90 yards like
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 1: it was nothing. Boom, dropped him in his tracks. Like,
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: that was so easy.
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, all you have to do is get the
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: crosshairs on them. Don't flinch. Squeeze the trigger slowly. make
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: sure you're in a good position, and know how to
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: shoot a rifle. And once you know how to shoot
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 1: a rifle, I mean, I'm not taking thousand yard shots,
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: but you know how to shoot a rifle, it's pretty easy.
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: If I was bow hunting, I wouldn't even imagine, if
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 1: I hadn't shot a bow in a year and a half,
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: of even thinking about shooting something with a bow. Not
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: a chance in hell. I wouldn't even think about it
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: for months. I would say, I need to practice, I
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: need to hit targets, All the time, I need to
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: make sure my shot is at, I need to get
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: my technique down. I want to film myself, make sure
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: I'm not doing anything stupid. Like, let me look at
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: my form. Why is my elbow to the right? It
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: should be above. I would never imagine. Rifle's way easier.
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: But the feeling of taking an animal down with a
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: bow is a completely different feeling. It's so much harder
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: to do. It's so much more exciting. And if you fail,
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: it doesn't, you know, many a hunt where you, seven days,
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 1: nothing happens.
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: Okay. That's just part of the thing. Right. But at least,
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: you know, we're out here getting after it and trying
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 1: and you succeed or you fail, but at least you're
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: in nature and the experience of it is still really fun,
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: even if you're totally unsuccessful.
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, that's why with the
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 2: spearfishing stuff, like these free divers that can hold their
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 2: breath up to four or five minutes, you know, and
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 2: they're diving 40, 50, 60, 70 feet. Some of these
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 2: guys out there in the middle of the blue water
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 2: and they're going down to shipwrecks or, whatever structure is
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 2: down there and they're shooting these big old fish it's
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 2: like yeah there's like there has to be a skill
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: set to that it's something you had to work for
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 2: to achieve you know yeah it's something you had to
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 2: build up to so yeah i i love all that
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 2: stuff i haven't been like bow hunt i haven't even
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 2: been rifle hunting it's something that i really want to
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 2: get into i like all that outdoor.
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 1: Stuff we can help you we can help you get
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: into that yeah definitely i'll connect you with some people
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: i i love all.
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 2: That you know i like to backpack i just did
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 2: uh mount whitney last year in august and uh i
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 2: just love being out there in nature so you know
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 2: being able to engage in it that way too is
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 2: like you said the excitement the the build-up the work
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 2: you have to put into it the knowledge you have
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 2: to acquire the people you have to bump into um.
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 1: The meals are a lot different too when you eat
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 1: a meal that you prepared yourself that you went and
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 1: hunted it's just a completely different feeling oh for sure
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 1: and you're living in california now and california is a
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 1: giant pig population There's a lot of pig hunting to
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 1: be had in California pretty much all year round.
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because they're invasive species. That's one that I'll get
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 2: in the helicopter with a rifle and just take those
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 2: guys out because I know they're just destroying animal habitat
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 2: and eating all the food and destroying the geography of
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 2: most places they are.
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 1: Millions of them here in Texas, literally millions.
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they breed like no other too. They just multiply.
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 1: Three times a year they have litter sometimes, at least
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: twice a year. I have some friends of mine and I,
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: we have a hunting lease out here. And as you're
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 1: walking through the woods, you hear them. They sound like demons. Yeah.
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: You hear them fighting with each other in the bushes
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: and shit. You're like, what the fuck am I getting into? Right.
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 1: They sound like monsters, man. And they're everywhere. Yeah. Every
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: one of these ranches out here is infested with pigs.
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're just destroying.
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 1: They have to hunt them. They bring in people to
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: hunt them. A friend of mine has a huge ranch
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 1: out near Fort Worth. And he brought in a bunch
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 1: of Navy SEALs to kill pigs. And they set it
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 1: up like an operation. They literally decided to use it
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 1: for training.
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: And so they, you know, and you can blow them
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 1: up with like thermite. You can do all kinds of,
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: not thermite. What's that shit that they use?
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: Tannerite.
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 1: Tannerite. That's it. Thank you.
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 2: I've seen that video.
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, it's crazy.
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 2: It's flying through the air.
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: It's ridiculous. Yeah, but you can basically do whatever you
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 1: want to them because they're just encouraging people. They're saying, listen,
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 1: other than like declaring war on the pigs and bringing
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 1: in the military and literally going through every state and
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: trying to kill them, like we've got an economic war
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 1: where these pigs are destroying people's crops. Right. I mean,
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 1: literally billions of dollars worth of damage every year they're
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: doing to these farms. Yeah. And they just keep– there's
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 1: more of them every year, more of them every year.
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 1: They're not going to stop fucking. They're just going to
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 1: keep reproducing. Three times a year, yeah. Just going to
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 1: keep reproducing. And it's, you know, really been a few
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: hundred years since they've been introduced to this country. Yeah. Boy,
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 1: they're in every state now.
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, and what are you going to do?
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 2: Just let them continue to roam?
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 1: They're in every state. Are they like New York State
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: and places like that? Do they have wild pigs? How
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 1: many states have a wild pig population? Let's put that
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 1: into perplexity and see what they say. Our AI sponsor.
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 1: I'm going to guess. Let me say 30. I say
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: 30 states have a wild pig population. That's my guess.
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: 30 out of 50. Am I close? How many? 35.
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 1: Figure first to states with documented feral swine presence. I
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 1: like that term. Feral swine presence. Does not necessarily mean
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 1: that every one of these states has a large self-sustaining population.
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: 35 states... Population established numbers can be lower. Some states
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 1: only have occasional sightings, small localized groups. Well, it really
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: depends on where they have farms. States with farms have
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: the real problem. In the Southwest, especially Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Florida, Georgia, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama,
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 1: and South Carolina. Yeah. Wild. It's such a crazy animal, too,
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 1: because they're, you know, they're so smart. They're so smart
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 1: and they're Very durable. Right.
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, some of them get gigantic, like 1,000 pounds, right?
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 1: Not really. See, I used to think that too. Those
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 1: are not really the wild pigs. What those are is
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 1: domestic pigs that got loose. And, you know, the thing
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 1: about domestic pigs, when they get loose, they kind of
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 1: become wild. Their nose lengthens. Their fur gets, like, thicker
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: and bushier. And their talons, or their tusks, rather, actually grow.
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: Which is nuts. Yeah. They actually metamorphosize.
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 2: Well, that's, I mean, that's what like a feral pig is, right? Mm-hmm.
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 2: Was a domesticated animal that became wild.
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: The opposite. It was a wild animal that they took
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: and domesticated, but then when you let them loose in
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 1: the wild, then they become wild again. Oh, okay. That's
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 1: what's weird. Yeah. It's like they originally were wild animals.
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 2: It's such a like crazy transformation.
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 2: All covering hair and big tusks and stuff, and then
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 2: like the pigs you see in.
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: The farm, like. Same animal.
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: What's nuts is it happens quick. Apparently the metamorphosis starts
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 1: to take place. Look this up. See how long it
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 1: takes before pigs start transforming. I think it's like six
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 1: weeks or something crazy. Like it starts to begin. Yeah.
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 1: Or six weeks where they have to feed themselves, where
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 1: they have to forage for themselves. They're like, all right,
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: I guess I'm wild. Yeah. And then they just start
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 1: the transformation. It's a very weird animal. I don't know
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 1: of any other animal that will ask perplexity that. I
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 1: don't know if there's any other animal that does that.
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 1: Domestic pigs become feral and behavior within weeks to months
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 1: of escaping, becoming wary of people, nocturnal, mobile, and able
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 1: to forage and survive without care. But it does not
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 1: literally turn into a wild boar in one lifetime. But
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 1: it does have physical changes. What is the physical change?
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 1: Radically different skull is overstated. Adult pigs can become tougher, leaner, hairier.
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 1: and more elusive as conditions change. Major inherited traits become
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 1: more common when the animals survive and breed, pass on
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 1: advantageous variants over successive litters. Evidence on feralization emphasizes that
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 1: these changes are shaped by both environments and multi-generational selection,
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 1: not an instant biological reversal. Not instant, but they do
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 1: physically change. I don't think this is totally accurate. But
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 1: if you see the biggest pig that they ever shot
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 1: that was a wild pig, I think it's called Hogzilla.
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 1: Have you ever seen that picture?
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 2: I think so, yeah.
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 1: It looks like a domestic pig. It looks like someone
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 1: was feeding that thing a lot and then it got
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 1: out and became a wild pig. Right. I don't know
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 1: how big that was. There's a photo of it, but
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 1: it's one of those perspective shots where the guy's like
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 1: behind it.
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 2: They stand all far behind it. Yeah. Make it look
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 2: ten times larger.
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But it looks crazy. There's one of them where
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 1: one of them is hanging from a tractor, and I
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 1: don't give a fuck how close you are to that thing.
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 1: That thing's giant. How big is Hogzilla?
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 2: That's like some of the gators, or the crocodiles, I mean,
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 2: that they're finding in Africa and stuff. They have the
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 2: pictures sitting next to those things, and they're like 20-plus
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 2: feet long, you know, like ridiculous.
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, crocodiles get big. I think the biggest ones they've
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 1: gotten are like close to 20.
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 2: See, that's the one thing about spearfishing is you know
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 2: the sharks are there, you know.
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 1: Do you ever see them?
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 2: I have not seen. I've seen leopard sharks, but that's
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 2: nothing crazy.
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 1: You never saw a great white?
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: I've never seen a great white.
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 1: If you do, would that be the last time you
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 1: go spearfishing?
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 2: I want to say no, but I don't know. I'll
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 2: have to get there first.
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 1: What if you have to hit one on the nose?
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah. If it's like getting crazy, it's probably like, all right,
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 2: I'm cool on that. But they have all sorts of
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 2: different things.
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this one.
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 2: Ocean Guardians.
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, that guy's definitely behind that thing. But that fucker
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 1: looks like he's got tusks.
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 2: Well, look at that one to the left. The giant
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 2: 36 stone.
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, look at that one, too.
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 3: They said this one was maybe 1,200 pounds. It was
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 3: originally thought of to be a hoax. There's a documentary
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 3: about it. This is back in 2004 and 2005, though. Hmm.
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: What's that one on the upper left? That dude's resting
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: his arm. Is that a real picture?
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 2: That's like a little kid, though.
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 1: But the upper left, the kid.
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 3: This one's way too close for that guy.
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that one's closer than the guy. The guy's behind it.
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 1: But that kid.
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 2: Well, that looks like it.
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, he's not resting his arms on it. He's resting
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 1: his arms. Yeah, it is the same. That's a fat fucker, though.
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 1: Look at the size of that thing. That looks more
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 1: like a domestic pig, though. Like that one right there.
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 1: That's a good example. Go back up a little so
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 1: I can make it small. Yeah. Look at his snout.
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 1: It's actually kind of long.
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 3: They're also still behind it, too.
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 3: Hard to tell how far, but.
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 1: Why do people do that?
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 2: It's big.
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 1: Try to make it look cool, man. I know, but
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 1: it's big. I like how that one says 36 stone.
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 1: That must be an English. Yeah, it's the mirror. That's crazy.
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 1: That's a big pig, but it's not. Like, what is
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 1: the biggest reported wild pig that was shot in Texas?
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 1: Let's ask that. I think that's a porno. Turn that off.
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 3: It's on IMDb.
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 1: The other white meat bites back.
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 3: You said the biggest one shot in Texas?
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 1: Yes. What is the biggest wild hog that was shot
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 1: in Texas? Let's guess. I'm going to guess like 500 pounds.
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 1: That's my guess. That's just a guess, though. No official.
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: Largest ever shot. Most credible. 790-pound boar. Holy shit. Captured,
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 1: not shot. Near DeLeon in Comanche County. January 2015. Weighed
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 1: on certified mill scales. That's fucking crazy big.
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 2: 790's nuts.
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 1: That's so big. Oh, man. Can you imagine millions of
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 1: 790-pound wild pigs running through this country? Yeah.
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 2: That would not be fair.
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 1: Not ideal.
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 1: So never been hunting?
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 2: I've shot some birds with a pellet gun or something.
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 2: That's about it.
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 1: But you want to?
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 2: I would love to, yeah.
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: What would you want to go hunting for? Do you
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 1: have a thing in your mind that you think would be?
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 2: I think something like a deer is probably a good
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 2: starting point.
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 1: Do you know how to shoot a bow? Or would
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: you want to use a rifle?
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 2: I haven't shot compound too often. I shoot a recurve.
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 2: It's definitely not something I'm super practiced with, but I'm
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 2: pretty good with it. I went to an archery competition
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 2: pretty recently and did pretty good with it.
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 1: Did you really? With a compound bow?
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 2: With a recurve bow.
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 1: A recurve bow. Don't hunt with that. Yeah. It's too risky.
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 1: You're not going to.
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 2: That would be.
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 1: You've got to get real good.
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 2: You'd have to.
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 2: A lot of practice, a lot of hunts, and a
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 2: lot of experience.
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 1: How far are you from San Diego?
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 2: An hour, two hours if there's traffic.
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 1: There's a really good archery shop in San Diego. I
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 1: think it's Performance Archery. Is that the name of the place?
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 1: But it's one of the best shops in the country.
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you want to get a compound bow and
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 1: want to get someone to really make sure that it's
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 1: sized correctly, that the draw length is correct and everything
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, Performance Archery. Why are you showing me
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 1: a map? Yeah, just go back to the– It doesn't.
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 3: Show you anything there.
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's in– I've been there before with John Dudley.
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 1: It's a great place, like really elite, 4.6 stars on Google. Yeah.
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 1: It's– you want to go to a really good place.
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 1: So they make sure they set you up correct. Like
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 1: that's a big thing with bows. It's like, you know,
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 1: I couldn't shoot John Jones' bow, you know. He's really tall.
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 1: I'm short. The length would be different. My peep sight
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 1: would be different. It has to all be measured out
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 1: to your size, and everyone's different. So you'd have to
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 1: really make sure that your bow is set up for
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 1: you correctly. And it's just like martial arts in that
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 1: you want to learn correctly first. You don't want to
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 1: unlearn it and try to learn something the right way
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 1: because you're always going to fall back on the way
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 1: you got comfortable with doing it the first time.
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 1: So that's a good thing to do. Nice.
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 2: I've shot a compound bow here or there. But I
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 2: like all that stuff. I'm really, like I said, I'm
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 2: big into continuing to learn lots of different skills, especially
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 2: in that realm. And, yeah, I'm all about it.
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 1: Do you think of that as a way to, like,
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 1: just advance your mental function just in all of life
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 1: that will help your fighting? Like the more different things
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 1: you learn, the more different things you do, that you can, like,
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 1: take things from that and apply it to fighting? Or
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 1: do you just do it because you enjoy it?
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 2: I have to say I do it because I enjoy it.
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 2: It's probably not directly related to fighting, but more of
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 2: the self-reliance and the self-preserverance. To me, at home, making
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 2: my own kydex holsters and my leather holsters and doing
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff is a good start. I
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 2: have this old truck that I want to tear apart
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 2: and learn how to work on it from the ground up. Um,
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 2: being able to hunt and provide like just, I'm always
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 2: thinking like when shit hits the fan, I better be
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 2: ready for it, you know? And so being a martial artist,
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 2: being a warrior encompasses a lot of aspects, you know,
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 2: hand to hand combat is only one of those things.
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of different aspects to, uh, self self perseverance.
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 2: So I think about it a little bit that way. Um,
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 2: I do it cause it's fun and it's, it's just
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 2: exciting to learn a new skill and then have a,
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 2: an end product, something that you'd made yourself.
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's always a good idea
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 1: to be self-reliant. And also, like, if you have a garden,
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 1: that's another great thing. Like, you have a place where
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 1: you can grow your own food. Yeah. So you're not
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 1: getting any pesticides or herbicides or bullshit on your food. 100%.
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, the end goal for me is to have
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 2: probably would not be the only property because my wife
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 2: just loves Southern California so much. But Wyoming, Montana, Idaho,
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 2: go get a couple acres up there, move the family there.
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 2: maybe some close friends, and just have our own little
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 2: self-reliant thing up there with some crop, some wildlife, the
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 2: ability to hunt up there on our land. A lot
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 2: of the stuff I'm seeing up there, they have stocked lakes,
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 2: and the rivers have fish as well. So something like that.
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 1: Would be beautiful. You were really thinking about a possible catastrophe.
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 2: It's always on my mind. No, I just want to
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 2: get away from the hustle and bustle of everything and
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 2: just be out there in nature is really important. kind
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 2: of the hopes for that.
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 1: Are you stuck in California because of your wife and
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 1: what you do outside of MMA? Or have you ever
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 1: thought about moving to a different place to train?
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 2: Well, training is kind of the main thing that keeps
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 2: me there, honestly. My team is there. All my coaches
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 2: are there. Of course, I can bounce around. What gym
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 2: are you out of now? I'm all over the place.
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 2: I train at the Dent Training Center. I train at CSW.
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 2: Fullerton with Eric Paulson. I love Eric. Yeah, he's awesome.
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 1: Didn't your dad train with Eric? He did.
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 2: That's how I got over there in the first place
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 2: because Ben was running the fight practice at CSW then.
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 1: Bro, Eric's an OG.
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 2: He's so dope, man.
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 1: He's an OG, dude.
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 2: He's such a cool guy.
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 1: Eric Paulson was– I remember back in the day when
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 1: he had like a crazy ponytail in the days where
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 1: you could grab hair. Yeah.
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 2: Well, that's why he cut it off.
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 2: I think it was Sean Shirky, right? He was fighting
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 2: him bare knuckle and homie kept grabbing his ponytail and
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 2: and holding him there, and that's the only reason why.
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 2: And I think right after that fight, he went and
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 2: chopped it off and had short hair from that point.
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 1: I know it's nice to be good-looking with long, flowy locks,
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 1: but that shit is– especially back in those days when
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 1: you could grab hair. You remember Hoist Gracie versus Kimo?
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 1: Hoist had a fucking handful of hair when he was
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 1: on top and just blasted him.
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 2: That's– I mean, to me– Cut the hair, man. Cut
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 2: it or braid it.
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 1: Especially if it's the old UFC days where you could
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 1: actually grab hair.
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 2: If you could grab it, yeah.
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, people complain all the time about guys
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 1: grabbing their shorts, and it does happen all the time.
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 1: Guys grab shorts. I'm always like, why are you wearing shorts? Right.
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you wear shorts. Do you wear
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 1: spandex or do you wear shorts?
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 2: Spandex, yeah. Yeah.
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 1: Why are you wearing shorts? Why are you wearing anything
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 1: someone can grab?
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 2: And especially, like, everybody likes the loose, like, the high slit.
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 2: cut shorts nowadays, so, I mean, it's more to grab onto, yeah.
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just don't understand it. Here it is. Yeah,
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 1: it's crazy. Yeah. Oh, yeah, man. This is bare knuckle, headbutts.
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 2: Hey, and then you can kick him on the nuts
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 2: and all that stuff back then.
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 1: Bro, wrestlers were a fucking nightmare when you could headbutt.
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 1: If you go back and remember, like, the Mark Coleman days,
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 1: he would get in your guard and headbutt the shit
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 1: out of you.
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, and how are you getting off of the,
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 2: off your back against a high-level wrestler like that?
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 1: I know, it's crazy.
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 3: He's just grabbing his hair like it's a wrist lock.
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 1: It's crazy.
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 2: He had his hair, and then I don't know if
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 2: Eric escapes or if the time goes out, but Eric
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 2: ends up finishing him at the end of it. God,
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 2: he got a crazy cut here.
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 3: What is this, a floor time count you had to
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 3: get up if you're on the ground for too long?
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 1: Is that what it is? That's WCC. That's crazy. I
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 1: wonder how much time. Oh, it's counting down.
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to see what happens if it gets
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 3: up here.
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 1: Right. Do they stand them up?
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow.
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 1: That's crazy.
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but Eric Paulson is such a legend of the game.
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, he is.
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 2: There's not a day that I go in there and
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 2: learn submission flows from him that I'm not just, like,
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 2: blown away.
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 1: That's crazy. I forgot they did that.
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 1: Well, I think back then in the early days of fighting,
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 1: there was a lot of promoters that were trying a
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 1: bunch of different tactics to try to make the fights
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 1: more interesting. Right.
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 2: That would be the only reason. Like, yeah i don't
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 2: want you to sit and lay there anymore get up
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 2: and start throwing fists again i.
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 1: Hate stand-ups i hate them yeah i hate them with
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 1: all my heart i don't think if in a five
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 1: minute round you should ever be stood.
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 2: Up there's a there's a lot that can go on
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 2: there i mean especially if you're holding position you're regaining
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 2: like your your breath a little bit You're setting up
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 2: a pass or something. You know, it doesn't always look
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 2: apparent to the crowd or to the ref.
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 1: Even if you could hold him down. Like, who cares?
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 1: You could hold a guy up against a cage, right? Okay?
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 1: And all you have to do is, like, land a
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 1: few knees and a few punches occasionally and they'll let
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 1: you stay in that position.
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 2: I feel like they're breaking that up even more and more.
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 1: I don't think you should break up anything. I think
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 1: it should be reserved for fouls. I think if someone
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 1: commits a foul, then you stand them up and then
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 1: you assess whether or not someone gets a point taken
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 1: away or whether or not that person needs time. But
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 1: if it's... Place where you don't want to be and
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 1: the guy's putting you in a place where you don't
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 1: want to be He's winning that exchange right if a
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 1: guy can hold you down You can't get out if
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 1: you don't like it, and you can't get up then
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 1: he's winning right yeah We lose as an audience the audience.
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 3: Loses ten minute limit for ground time.
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 1: What fight was this this is WCC Yeah, what was
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 1: it called? World Combat Championships is that the one where
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 1: Henzo yes? Henzo Gracie fought Ben Spikers you remember that
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 1: one I Oh, dude, this is one of the reasons
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 1: why elbows to the back of the head are illegal.
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 1: Because Henzo, this guy was calling Henzo. There's you, dog.
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 1: Look at that. Henzo was in his hotel room, and
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 1: this guy was calling him every fucking ten minutes to
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 1: try to wake him up. And Henzo had to take
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 1: the phone and shove it in a drawer. He was
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 1: fucking with him constantly. And Henzo got his back and
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 1: elbowed the fucking shit out of him from rear mount.
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 1: So this isn't the same fight.
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 2: It is. Yeah, right here.
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 1: Oh, here it is. That's it. So Henzo gets his back,
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 1: and here it is. Look at these elbows, dude. Just
• 2:10:02
  Speaker 1: ferocious elbows. So this dude was a judo champion.
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 2: I was going to say, why would you wear a
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 2: gi against a.
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 1: Guy like Henzo? And Henzo doesn't have a gi on.
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 1: And then Henzo steps off and then gets on his neck. Oh, shit. Yeah. Ow,
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 1: that was crossing the line. After he just elbowed the
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 1: shit out of him.
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 2: See, you know what's funny is like the 12 to
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 2: 6 rule, everybody fantasizes about like how much better that is.
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 2: And sure, you got some cutting, but your force that
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 2: you can deliver, in my perspective, straight down with an
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 2: elbow like that is so much more tremendous than you
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 2: doing this.
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 1: Yes. This was only– you know why it was outlawed, right? Why?
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 1: Big John McCarthy has got a great story about this.
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 1: When the ESPN people or the Athletic Commission people rather
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 1: were first– deciding whether or not they were going to
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 1: sanction MMA. They had seen these ESPN karate breaking demonstrations
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 1: at like 2 in the morning. And they break a
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 1: bunch of bricks. And they're like, you have to outlaw that.
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 1: That should be illegal. People could die. That's literally what
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 1: they thought was the most powerful strike was the 12
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 1: to 6 elbow. So you couldn't even do a 12
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 1: to 6 elbow standing, which is crazy. You couldn't tomahawk.
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 1: So you couldn't come down with a tomahawk 12-6. Yeah.
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 1: It had to be at a slight angle. It had
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 1: to be some kind of angle, which is the fucking
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 1: dumbest thing ever.
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 2: Chop him in half.
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 1: This, by far, across, like, it's rotating your shoulders to
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 1: do it, like a punch.
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 1: It's the most power.
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, you might get more cutting.
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 1: It's available if a guy's doing this. If a guy's
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 1: covering up like that and you go straight down. For sure.
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 1: But to eliminate it as an option, the only reason
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 1: why was.
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 3: The WCC had two different brackets, grapplers bracket, strikers bracket.
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 3: Grapplers could be on the ground for up to 10 minutes.
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 3: Strikers only had two minutes.
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 1: And submissions were illegal.
• 2:11:58
  Speaker 2: What?
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 1: In a strikers fight? Yeah.
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 3: And then the idea was the winner of both brackets
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 3: would fight at the end.
• 2:12:05
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's so crazy.
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it only made it that one tournament.
• 2:12:08
  Speaker 1: That's so crazy. What year was that?
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 3: 95.
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 2: 4 or 5.
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 1: 95 maybe. Okay. So this is right after the UFC
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 1: burst onto the scene. UFC was 93.
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 3: It just says they were trying to be different than
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 3: the UFC with different rules.
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 2: They're doing something like that again where it's like striking
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 2: only MMA where, I don't know, if you go back
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 2: to the ground, they stand you back up or something.
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 2: Where is this? I don't know. I saw it on Instagram.
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, what is 1FC doing it the right way
• 2:12:35
  Speaker 1: where they just have striking fights?
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 1: They have MMA fights and striking fights. Right. Dude, I've
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 1: been trying to talk Dana into doing that for years,
• 2:12:42
  Speaker 1: you know, because I know they got into Zufa boxing,
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 1: which is great. You know, I'm like, why not? Like,
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 1: when people boo when things go to the ground, how
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 1: about have striking fights? But in his mind, kickboxing in
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 1: America has a stink on it. From the PKA karate days,
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 1: you know, which just wasn't that good. They weren't allowed
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 1: a leg kick. It was all above the waist. Right.
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 1: You know, there was great fighters back then like Rick
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 1: Rufus and a few guys that were like really elite.
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 1: But for the most part, the skill level wasn't that
• 2:13:13
  Speaker 1: high and people never really got into PKA karate. They
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 1: never really got into kick. It never really became the
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 1: kind of success that boxing was. And so I think
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 1: in his mind, that's how people look at kickboxing. Right.
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 1: I think it's the most, it has the most possibility
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 1: in terms of like a sport that is not being
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 1: taken advantage of, like that it has the most potential
• 2:13:34
  Speaker 1: by far.
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, like you say, you look at the one
• 2:13:36
  Speaker 2: championship guys that are over there kickboxing Muay Thai, and
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 2: they're even doing hybrid fights for that DJ versus Ra-Tang one.
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 2: They're switching it up all crazy, and I don't know.
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's getting pretty good traction over there.
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 1: It is. I heard they have some difficulties, and I
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 1: hope they do really well. The world needs more organizations.
• 2:13:59
  Speaker 1: The MMA world needs a bunch of options. Right. And,
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 1: you know, this PFL merger where PFL has merged with,
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 1: what is it? MVP. Yeah. Jake Paul's production company, MVP. Yeah.
• 2:14:11
  Speaker 1: That's great. We need more of that. Netflix is involved. Fantastic.
• 2:14:15
  Speaker 1: You need more. You need more, more options, more fights,
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 1: and it's just going to make more MMA fans.
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:14:23
  Speaker 1: Just for me, when you see a guy like that
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 1: cat that I was telling you about, Mega Medoff, who
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 1: fought for PFL, like, More people need to know about
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 1: these guys. There's so many guys out there that are
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 1: fucking killers, man.
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 2: The talent pool is so deep. Outside of the UFC,
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 2: it's extremely deep. You've got people coming out of Russia,
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 2: these Brazilians, people all over the world that nobody's ever
• 2:14:45
  Speaker 2: heard of just because they haven't been on that big
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 2: stage quite yet.
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 2: I think it would be really cool that we did
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 2: champion versus champion kind of fights.
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 1: It's never going to happen. The UFC would never do that.
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 1: What if their guys win? Fuck you. The benefit of
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 1: it for the UFC is it's so outweighed by the negatives.
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 1: Especially since they're number one. And they're not number one
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 1: a little bit. For the casual, MMA is UFC. It's
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 1: like Q-tips. It's not a cotton swab. It's a fucking Q-tip.
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 2: From a business perspective, I understand it. I think as
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 2: a fighter, it would be cool to challenge yourself once
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 2: you Once you get to that pinnacle, if you have
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 2: title defenses and you're kind of taking everybody out, it's like, hey,
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 2: I really want to be the best in the world.
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 2: Let me fight all the top guys in the world.
• 2:15:33
  Speaker 2: So it may never happen, but it's.
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 1: A cool ideology. The only way it could happen, if
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 1: something like MVP got to a level of prominence in
• 2:15:44
  Speaker 1: the public eye where they developed a roster of champions
• 2:15:48
  Speaker 1: that was equal to the UFC, then it would make sense.
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 1: Then no one's losing.
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, because then it brings in all the crowds
• 2:15:53
  Speaker 2: from everywhere.
• 2:15:54
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:15:54
  Speaker 2: Everybody gets what they want.
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 1: And then you do a co-promotion for, like, a gigantic
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 1: super fight. Like, you know, the UFC's version of Floyd
• 2:16:01
  Speaker 1: Mayweather versus Manny Pacquiao. Right. You know, you have something
• 2:16:04
  Speaker 1: where these guys are so huge. It's just like, let's
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 1: make this happen. Everyone's going to get rich. Let's go.
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. It has to be something of
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 2: that caliber. Like, it has to be a Conor McGregor-level
• 2:16:17
  Speaker 2: champion where that, you know, people are– coming from all
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 2: over anywhere to sign on to buy the fight at
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 2: home or to show up in person. And I think
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 2: you'd have to have two level, two guys of that
• 2:16:28
  Speaker 2: level to bring some of that traction to it.
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 1: Do you think Conor fights again?
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know. It sounds like he's going to.
• 2:16:37
  Speaker 1: I think he does.
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 2: I think he does. The one more and then he's
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 2: done with it.
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I hope, you know.
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 2: It just, that's what, like you say, guys stay in
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 2: it too long. It's like, and some of these guys,
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 2: that's all they know. It's the only thing they've ever
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 2: found success in or found the ability to put food
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 2: on the table or provide for their families. And so, like,
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 2: what else do they know? They gave everything to fighting.
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 1: Well, with Conor, it's not that.
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 2: But that's not Conor. Yeah. He went from such a
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 2: high place to, like, doing what he's doing now in
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 2: the fighting world. It's just, like, why even step in
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 2: and do that anymore?
• 2:17:09
  Speaker 1: I think it's just because he still can for a
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 1: little bit more time. I mean, he's 37, 38 now. Realistically,
• 2:17:18
  Speaker 1: he's got two years left maybe. If you really take
• 2:17:22
  Speaker 1: care of yourself and we both know he's partied a
• 2:17:25
  Speaker 1: little bit.
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 2: I don't think he's going to get back to that
• 2:17:28
  Speaker 2: level of training and mindset to it though.
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 1: You know, it's very difficult to know because he was
• 2:17:34
  Speaker 1: capable of doing it at one point in his life.
• 2:17:36
  Speaker 1: And it doesn't mean that he can never do that
• 2:17:39
  Speaker 1: again just because he's rich. And I think you can
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 1: underestimate a man's character and say that he can't ever
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 1: reach those heights again. A guy like Conor is a
• 2:17:48
  Speaker 1: special guy. It takes a special type of person to
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 1: put on a performance like he did against Eddie Alvarez.
• 2:17:55
  Speaker 1: He was in the fucking matrix, man. To be there
• 2:17:59
  Speaker 1: live when he was doing that, I was like, good lord.
• 2:18:02
  Speaker 1: That was special.
• 2:18:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's pulling it. Eddie's like, Skinning his nose, blah, blah,
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 2: and coming.
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 1: Back with it. And then he's countering instantaneous with perfect precision.
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 1: He was on fire. If he can reach that height,
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 1: as long as his body holds up, but here's the
• 2:18:16
  Speaker 1: problem is both of his ACLs have been torn. Both
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 1: of his meniscus has been blown out. Now with the
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 1: crazy one, with that crazy jumping roundhouse kick, who knows, man?
• 2:18:28
  Speaker 1: Who knows what he could still do?
• 2:18:30
  Speaker 2: I will never say never. It's not that he couldn't
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 2: do it. It's just that, will he do it? Will
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 2: he put that time and effort to recollect and to
• 2:18:38
  Speaker 2: be of that zen, of that Bushido like he used
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 2: to be? Because the way he used to talk and
• 2:18:42
  Speaker 2: be philosophical and stoic about training, the way he explained
• 2:18:46
  Speaker 2: it and delved into it, that's what drew people to
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 2: Connor before anything. The way he talked about the warrior
• 2:18:52
  Speaker 2: lifestyle and he didn't care about anything else and he
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 2: lost his mind to it, those are the things that
• 2:18:57
  Speaker 2: intrigue the people. This real, true warrior persona. And That
• 2:19:04
  Speaker 2: was the biggest question with his last one. Everybody's like, oh,
• 2:19:06
  Speaker 2: do you think Conor's going to do it? Do you
• 2:19:07
  Speaker 2: think Conor? And it was the same answer. Do I
• 2:19:10
  Speaker 2: think he can do it? For sure. But the problem
• 2:19:13
  Speaker 2: with that is Conor's so good at talking that he
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 2: could convince you that he's doing anything. So I'm like,
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 2: I'm not there in his camp. I'm not seeing what
• 2:19:23
  Speaker 2: he's doing behind the scenes. I really can't make that guess, honestly.
• 2:19:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and much like you, I want to believe. You know,
• 2:19:31
  Speaker 1: you hear him talk, you're like, I want to believe.
• 2:19:33
  Speaker 1: I want to see him pull it off. Of course. Yeah,
• 2:19:35
  Speaker 1: we all did. You know, he was a very important
• 2:19:38
  Speaker 1: part of fighting. He was a really special person that
• 2:19:43
  Speaker 1: came along and brought a lot of attention to the
• 2:19:46
  Speaker 1: sport that would not, it wouldn't have been the same
• 2:19:49
  Speaker 1: without him. That whole era of time from 10 years
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 1: ago or whatever it was when he really burst, more
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 1: than that, but I think he won his, what year
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 1: would he win his first title? When was it against
• 2:19:59
  Speaker 1: Jose Aldo? What year was that? It was at the
• 2:20:06
  Speaker 1: end of 2015. It was December 2015. Yeah, so 11
• 2:20:09
  Speaker 1: years ago, really when he became Conor. You know, that
• 2:20:13
  Speaker 1: one punch knockout of Jose Aldo was really when he
• 2:20:16
  Speaker 1: became that guy. I mean, he was huge before that,
• 2:20:19
  Speaker 1: but that was the one. And then, of course, the
• 2:20:22
  Speaker 1: Eddie Alvarez fight was another one. I mean, it's 10 years, man.
• 2:20:25
  Speaker 1: That's a long time. Right. A lot of booze, a
• 2:20:29
  Speaker 1: lot of partying, a lot of fucking off, you know. Yeah.
• 2:20:33
  Speaker 2: A lot of luxury, you know, not waking up. That's
• 2:20:37
  Speaker 2: hard to go right.
• 2:20:38
  Speaker 1: Also, the difference, as you said before, between 45 and,
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 1: you know, and going all the way up, now he
• 2:20:43
  Speaker 1: wants to fight at 70, you know.
• 2:20:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's also, that's a weight class of killers
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 2: right there. You talk about Carlos Prates and this and that,
• 2:20:51
  Speaker 2: and I'm like.
• 2:20:52
  Speaker 1: Morales, bro.
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Morales. That guy's giant. Those guys are all huge.
• 2:20:57
  Speaker 1: Huge.
• 2:20:57
  Speaker 2: Even Ian Gary, you saw him sparring Conor, and he's
• 2:21:00
  Speaker 2: far bigger than Conor is. Conor's not. Conor's not that
• 2:21:04
  Speaker 2: ginormous of a guy, from my understanding. He gets pretty thick,
• 2:21:08
  Speaker 2: but he's not really that big of an individual.
• 2:21:11
  Speaker 1: No, 55 is really probably as heavy as he should
• 2:21:14
  Speaker 1: be fighting at, realistically, when you think about those guys.
• 2:21:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but then is he going to cut the weight
• 2:21:18
  Speaker 2: to do that? It's hard. Is he going to do
• 2:21:20
  Speaker 2: all that stuff?
• 2:21:21
  Speaker 1: Well, if he doesn't want to do that, he really
• 2:21:22
  Speaker 1: probably shouldn't be fighting.
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, the only thing with that is that he
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 2: can kind of pick who it is he's fighting to
• 2:21:29
  Speaker 2: an extent, and so... He can get away with the weight.
• 2:21:32
  Speaker 1: Class thing a little bit. Yeah, he can. He can
• 2:21:34
  Speaker 1: do whatever the fuck he wants. But, you know, if
• 2:21:37
  Speaker 1: I was in his– it's also at his age, should
• 2:21:39
  Speaker 1: he even be cutting that kind of weight anymore? Maybe
• 2:21:42
  Speaker 1: just pick– the real fight is 170 with Michael Chandler. Like,
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 1: have that fight. You want to have one more fight
• 2:21:48
  Speaker 1: and go out?
• 2:21:48
  Speaker 2: That would be beautiful for him, yeah.
• 2:21:50
  Speaker 1: Because Max is a tough– it's a tough matchup for him.
• 2:21:54
  Speaker 1: It's tough. If he doesn't get Max out of there
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 1: in the first two rounds, then good luck with that. Like,
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 1: Max is going to, I mean, Max's whole strategy is
• 2:22:01
  Speaker 1: we're going to drown him. Yeah. That's what his thoughts were.
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's a tough one. Max is as tough as
• 2:22:10
  Speaker 2: they come, and he's fighting the top of the top consistently.
• 2:22:14
  Speaker 2: So he's only getting better. He's only getting more experienced.
• 2:22:17
  Speaker 2: I think Michael Chandler would be great regardless. I think
• 2:22:21
  Speaker 2: it draws the crowd. I think it brings the energy
• 2:22:23
  Speaker 2: to it. I think that's a good skill level for Conor.
• 2:22:26
  Speaker 1: They already went through the whole Ultimate Fighter thing together
• 2:22:28
  Speaker 1: and talked all this shit to each other. It's crazy
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 1: that Chandler sat on the shelf for like two years
• 2:22:34
  Speaker 1: waiting for that fight. And then finally he's like, all right,
• 2:22:36
  Speaker 1: I guess it's not happening.
• 2:22:37
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:22:38
  Speaker 1: He got fucked.
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 2: He did. And Chandler to me is like, he's very
• 2:22:45
  Speaker 2: physically tough. I don't think he is as skillful as
• 2:22:49
  Speaker 2: Max or some of these other guys. So I think
• 2:22:52
  Speaker 2: that's a great fight for Conor. I think that's a
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 2: good one for him to come back on. Yeah.
• 2:22:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, Chandler's a wild dog.
• 2:22:57
  Speaker 2: He is a wild dog, but he relies on that
• 2:22:59
  Speaker 2: too much is what I've seen. It's like he comes
• 2:23:00
  Speaker 2: out all crazy, and it's just like, dude, that's the
• 2:23:04
  Speaker 2: same thing. Start with a jab. Who am I to
• 2:23:07
  Speaker 2: say it quite yet? He's there doing his thing, but
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 2: from my perspective, there seems to be a little bit
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 2: more calculation there.
• 2:23:14
  Speaker 1: Well, it's not going to happen at this stage of
• 2:23:16
  Speaker 1: his career. But, yeah, if you go back and watch
• 2:23:18
  Speaker 1: his Eddie Alvarez fights back when he was fighting in Bellator.
• 2:23:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was like a war back and forth. Both
• 2:23:24
  Speaker 2: those guys hit the canvas like three or four times each.
• 2:23:27
  Speaker 1: Those fights were insane. Some of the, like, for people
• 2:23:31
  Speaker 1: that want to see a great fight that you probably
• 2:23:33
  Speaker 1: never saw before, if you only watch the UFC, go
• 2:23:36
  Speaker 1: back and watch Michael Chandler versus Eddie Alvarez one and two.
• 2:23:41
  Speaker 1: Those fights are nuts. Right.
• 2:23:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like I said, it's just like a. like war
• 2:23:46
  Speaker 2: back and forth, but that's, that's also, and Chandler is
• 2:23:49
  Speaker 2: a very physical guy. He's very explosive. And just think
• 2:23:53
  Speaker 2: of like back at his prime, you know, how much
• 2:23:56
  Speaker 2: more explosive he was, how much power he had, how
• 2:23:58
  Speaker 2: much energy he was delivering to that fight. So, and that's,
• 2:24:01
  Speaker 2: that's why he was performing like that. But like, like
• 2:24:04
  Speaker 2: a lot of fighters, you know, like the Roy Jones
• 2:24:06
  Speaker 2: and stuff is you can't always rely on that, especially
• 2:24:08
  Speaker 2: in your later years. Like that's back to this. You
• 2:24:10
  Speaker 2: got to be thinking with, with this, especially as your
• 2:24:13
  Speaker 2: body starts to get a little bit, slower and not
• 2:24:16
  Speaker 2: as explosive. So, I don't know. He's over there getting
• 2:24:21
  Speaker 2: after it. I mean, that Gagey fight, he was definitely
• 2:24:23
  Speaker 2: not on the winning end of it, but he stayed
• 2:24:25
  Speaker 2: in it and fought hard and then.
• 2:24:27
  Speaker 1: The Poirier fight. He's had some great fights.
• 2:24:30
  Speaker 2: He's had some great fights for sure. I mean, you
• 2:24:32
  Speaker 2: fight a guy like Rufy. Rufy's just on a tear
• 2:24:34
  Speaker 2: right now. If you don't take him down to the ground,
• 2:24:36
  Speaker 2: there's not a lot of people that beat him on
• 2:24:38
  Speaker 2: a pure striking match right now anyway. He's so good. Yeah, he's... See,
• 2:24:43
  Speaker 2: that's another one. That's another, like, individual that you look
• 2:24:46
  Speaker 2: at it like a work of art, you know, someone
• 2:24:48
  Speaker 2: who really understands what it means to be a striker.
• 2:24:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and super creative. Like, he does a lot of
• 2:24:55
  Speaker 1: wild stuff in sparring. There's some awesome sparring footage of him, like,
• 2:24:58
  Speaker 1: pulling off crescent kicks when he's, like, two inches from you.
• 2:25:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's, like, back fist, spinning back fist.
• 2:25:03
  Speaker 1: He's artistic. I mean, he's very creative when he's in there.
• 2:25:06
  Speaker 1: It's beautiful to watch. He's got a great fight coming up.
• 2:25:11
  Speaker 1: Who is he fighting? Why did I blank on it?
• 2:25:14
  Speaker 1: He's fighting someone. Oh, Armand Saroukian. Oh, yeah. Yes. Two
• 2:25:23
  Speaker 1: or three weeks. Yes. Armand Saroukian, and they're fighting in L.A.
• 2:25:28
  Speaker 1: That's a good fight. That's a really good fight.
• 2:25:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the whole thing with him. He's got to
• 2:25:35
  Speaker 2: make sure he doesn't get taken down. Against someone like
• 2:25:37
  Speaker 2: Armand Saroukian, that's a tall task right there.
• 2:25:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. That guy's one of the best wrestlers in
• 2:25:43
  Speaker 1: the sport. It's interesting to see him stay relevant outside
• 2:25:46
  Speaker 1: the UFC when the UFC hasn't been offering fights. That's great.
• 2:25:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:25:50
  Speaker 1: Very smart.
• 2:25:50
  Speaker 2: He's doing his thing.
• 2:25:51
  Speaker 1: He's doing his thing. It's very smart what he's doing. And,
• 2:25:54
  Speaker 1: you know, getting into the RAF matches and doing a
• 2:25:57
  Speaker 1: bunch of different things on social media. He just stays
• 2:25:59
  Speaker 1: out there.
• 2:26:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:26:00
  Speaker 2: He's hanging out with all the Twitch streamers and stuff.
• 2:26:02
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 2:26:02
  Speaker 2: And it's not like he needs money, you know.
• 2:26:04
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:26:04
  Speaker 2: He's good on that part.
• 2:26:05
  Speaker 1: That's weird. It's weird for a guy to be that
• 2:26:08
  Speaker 1: good who's rich.
• 2:26:09
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:26:10
  Speaker 1: He's so good. And so tough.
• 2:26:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, two trains of thought there. It's like you either
• 2:26:13
  Speaker 2: have all the amenities to do so or like you
• 2:26:16
  Speaker 2: have all the amenities so then you're– You're a pussy.
• 2:26:19
  Speaker 2: You don't need to do anything.
• 2:26:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're soft. You just sit around. But not him.
• 2:26:22
  Speaker 1: He's fucking shredded and he grew up rich. Yeah, like
• 2:26:26
  Speaker 1: stupid rich. He's literally Bruce Wayne.
• 2:26:29
  Speaker 2: He's the UFC Bruce Wayne.
• 2:26:31
  Speaker 1: He's Bruce Wayne. I mean he's always got Ferraris and shit.
• 2:26:34
  Speaker 1: You ever watch his video series on YouTube, his training series?
• 2:26:38
  Speaker 2: Which one? Like the logs?
• 2:26:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So they roll into a town. Like it rolls
• 2:26:42
  Speaker 1: into LA. First thing he does is goes and rents
• 2:26:45
  Speaker 1: a Lamborghini. So when he shows up at training, he's
• 2:26:48
  Speaker 1: driving around a rented Lamborghini everywhere. He's got that kind
• 2:26:51
  Speaker 1: of scratch. Right. And yet he's training like a fucking
• 2:26:54
  Speaker 1: absolute animal. And he's a great fighter. Right. I mean,
• 2:26:58
  Speaker 1: he has no flaws in his game. No flaw in
• 2:27:00
  Speaker 1: terms of heart. He doesn't quit. It's like his first
• 2:27:03
  Speaker 1: fight with Islam was fucking chaos. He gave Islam one
• 2:27:06
  Speaker 1: of the toughest fights of his career.
• 2:27:07
  Speaker 2: Right. I think that's probably the closest. I mean, besides
• 2:27:12
  Speaker 2: obviously Islam's loss. Yes. He really got tested like that,
• 2:27:15
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 2:27:15
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 2:27:16
  Speaker 2: And that was a short notice, wasn't it, for Armand?
• 2:27:18
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:27:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So he's got all the skills. He's a top
• 2:27:22
  Speaker 2: contender for sure.
• 2:27:23
  Speaker 1: And when you think about Rufy, the real problem that
• 2:27:26
  Speaker 1: he had in the UFC was that one fight with
• 2:27:29
  Speaker 1: Benoit Saint-Denis where he got taken down. And, you know,
• 2:27:33
  Speaker 1: Benoit is obviously a very elite grappler. So it would
• 2:27:36
  Speaker 1: be interesting to see. if he can avoid arm injuries.
• 2:27:40
  Speaker 2: That's the big question right there for sure. I would
• 2:27:44
  Speaker 2: think that that's what his camp is surrounded around is
• 2:27:49
  Speaker 2: takedown defense, getting up off the bottom, blocking some chokes,
• 2:27:54
  Speaker 2: and being able to get back to the feet. I mean,
• 2:27:56
  Speaker 2: that's the thing. That's, you know– For the MMA striker guys,
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 2: it's not like you have to be, like, the dopest wrestler, like,
• 2:28:03
  Speaker 2: all around. But you do need to be really good
• 2:28:06
  Speaker 2: at defending takedowns.
• 2:28:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:28:07
  Speaker 2: And you do need to have one, two, three escapes
• 2:28:11
  Speaker 2: off the bottom, a sweep, some kind of ability to
• 2:28:14
  Speaker 2: stand up, you know. And then, yeah, get back to
• 2:28:18
  Speaker 2: your feet and make this a close fight. If you
• 2:28:20
  Speaker 2: get stuck on the bottom, then you're done for. You're screwed.
• 2:28:23
  Speaker 1: And I think for a lot of these guys that
• 2:28:25
  Speaker 1: are elite strikers, it takes that one fight where you
• 2:28:27
  Speaker 1: do get dominated on the ground to really have a
• 2:28:30
  Speaker 1: wake-up call. And I think a good example of that
• 2:28:33
  Speaker 1: might be Cyril Ghosn. When Cyril Ghosn fought Jon Jones.
• 2:28:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:28:37
  Speaker 1: And also Francis. Francis beat him up on the ground
• 2:28:40
  Speaker 1: as well. Right. But the Jon Jones one was, I think,
• 2:28:42
  Speaker 1: a real humbling wake-up call because Jon essentially avoided getting
• 2:28:46
  Speaker 1: hit completely, took him down, and strangled him real quick.
• 2:28:49
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:28:50
  Speaker 1: And then he's sitting there like, fuck.
• 2:28:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:28:53
  Speaker 1: From that moment on, that dude's been on a tear.
• 2:28:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, and you see how he performed on the
• 2:28:59
  Speaker 1: White House lawn against, you know, what we thought is
• 2:29:03
  Speaker 1: arguably one of the greatest strikers that's ever fought in
• 2:29:05
  Speaker 1: the UFC, Alex Pereira. And he certainly was at middleweight
• 2:29:09
  Speaker 1: and light heavyweight. But Ciro gone at heavyweight is something special, man.
• 2:29:13
  Speaker 1: There's a good example of a guy that you were
• 2:29:15
  Speaker 1: talking about who hits and doesn't get hit. We've literally
• 2:29:17
  Speaker 1: never seen him get rocked.
• 2:29:18
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:29:19
  Speaker 2: Which is crazy. And he's got that savant. I wouldn't
• 2:29:23
  Speaker 2: say it's completely savate, but he bounces. It's almost like
• 2:29:26
  Speaker 2: that karate savate. He moves really well in and out. Dude,
• 2:29:29
  Speaker 2: if you can do that at heavyweight, you're that big
• 2:29:31
  Speaker 2: and you can move like that, it's going to be
• 2:29:33
  Speaker 2: very difficult for a lot of those guys to track you.
• 2:29:35
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. And, you know, we were talking about, like, point fighting,
• 2:29:38
  Speaker 1: like how point fighting has, like, such a, like, I
• 2:29:40
  Speaker 1: think it's a great skill to learn. Another great skill
• 2:29:44
  Speaker 1: to learn is basketball, and that's what Cyril Ghosn did.
• 2:29:47
  Speaker 1: He played a lot of basketball. And if you think
• 2:29:49
  Speaker 1: about a big guy, Where you're constantly exploding and moving
• 2:29:53
  Speaker 1: and all this different changing directions. Yeah. That would definitely
• 2:29:57
  Speaker 1: benefit you with footwork.
• 2:29:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's all sorts of hand-eye coordination. You've got to
• 2:30:00
  Speaker 2: be very quick and be able to move your hands
• 2:30:02
  Speaker 2: and your feet in succession.
• 2:30:03
  Speaker 1: Because, look, no heavyweights move like that guy. Right. He's
• 2:30:08
  Speaker 1: the gold standard for elite moving heavyweights in the UFC.
• 2:30:11
  Speaker 1: It's zero gone. And there's no close second. Who's a
• 2:30:15
  Speaker 1: close second at heavyweights? You got to go back to
• 2:30:19
  Speaker 1: Travis Brown when he was in his prime. Travis Brown,
• 2:30:21
  Speaker 1: when he was in his prime, was very light on
• 2:30:23
  Speaker 1: his feet and moved very well. But I think Cyril
• 2:30:26
  Speaker 1: Ghosn is like a new level, a new level of
• 2:30:29
  Speaker 1: elite mobile heavyweight who also has ridiculous knockout power.
• 2:30:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I would say the only
• 2:30:35
  Speaker 2: person that rivals his speed and agility would be maybe
• 2:30:39
  Speaker 2: like a Hokie. I haven't really seen.
• 2:30:42
  Speaker 1: Hokit's fast. I don't think he's got that kind of
• 2:30:45
  Speaker 1: footwork speed.
• 2:30:47
  Speaker 2: Not at all. There's no comparison on the skill levels
• 2:30:50
  Speaker 2: of that movement and the striking. He just has similar
• 2:30:54
  Speaker 2: speed and agility.
• 2:30:55
  Speaker 1: What Hokit has is elite wrestling, though. And a lot
• 2:30:59
  Speaker 1: of shit talking.
• 2:30:59
  Speaker 2: A lot of shit talking. He gets people riled up.
• 2:31:02
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I think that's also something that Conor
• 2:31:04
  Speaker 2: did really well is that you got these guys going
• 2:31:06
  Speaker 2: into a fight going, I cannot get beat by this guy.
• 2:31:09
  Speaker 2: He said this and this and this. And I have
• 2:31:12
  Speaker 2: all this pressure, and you could see it. You saw
• 2:31:14
  Speaker 2: it on Jose Aldo. What's the other Brazilian he fought?
• 2:31:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 2:31:23
  Speaker 2: It starts with an R. He's fought him before. Maybe
• 2:31:27
  Speaker 2: it was the second fight. I don't know. I'm blanking
• 2:31:30
  Speaker 2: on his name.
• 2:31:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know who you're talking about. I'm seeing it
• 2:31:32
  Speaker 1: in my head.
• 2:31:33
  Speaker 2: You can see he runs out all crazy. Just everybody.
• 2:31:36
  Speaker 1: He gets them all, though.
• 2:31:38
  Speaker 2: If you have that added pressure, it's a psychological effect.
• 2:31:41
  Speaker 2: And I think Hokit does the same thing. He takes
• 2:31:43
  Speaker 2: people out of their comfort zone. Now everything's extra tense.
• 2:31:46
  Speaker 2: Everything's guarded. You're not taking any chances or risks or
• 2:31:52
  Speaker 2: stepping out of line. You're very, very safe and secluded.
• 2:31:58
  Speaker 2: You have to be loose when you're fighting. You can't
• 2:32:00
  Speaker 2: be thinking that.
• 2:32:01
  Speaker 1: And you probably didn't sleep good the night before because
• 2:32:03
  Speaker 1: you fucking hate this guy.
• 2:32:04
  Speaker 2: And then you're like, yeah, Raul, I'm pissed off. All
• 2:32:07
  Speaker 2: I want to do is take his head off. You're
• 2:32:08
  Speaker 2: not thinking about technique. You're thinking about taking his head off,
• 2:32:11
  Speaker 2: that's it, one big overhand. It's like, dude, when you
• 2:32:14
  Speaker 2: fight angry, then you had all this skill, and your
• 2:32:18
  Speaker 2: emotion could take it right out of you. See, that's
• 2:32:20
  Speaker 2: another aspect of this striking game, of this MMA game.
• 2:32:23
  Speaker 1: Do you think that that should be taught more, the
• 2:32:26
  Speaker 1: mental aspect of the game, of just being able to
• 2:32:29
  Speaker 1: stay in your own head and not get affected by
• 2:32:32
  Speaker 1: these outside influences, not get affected by, and understand what
• 2:32:36
  Speaker 1: these things are. So when you encounter them, You have
• 2:32:40
  Speaker 1: a coach, I think, that could teach you not just
• 2:32:43
  Speaker 1: how to fight but also how to maintain your peace
• 2:32:46
  Speaker 1: of mind and how to maintain your focus and not
• 2:32:49
  Speaker 1: get distracted.
• 2:32:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, 100%. I don't know. Everybody's individual. It's hard to
• 2:32:56
  Speaker 2: have a program because you have guys that go to
• 2:32:59
  Speaker 2: athletic therapists or whatever, like performance therapists, and they certainly
• 2:33:03
  Speaker 2: do all that stuff. I think a little bit is
• 2:33:06
  Speaker 2: you're born with it. You have the ability to control, like,
• 2:33:08
  Speaker 2: emotions better than others. Some people go through, again, back to, like,
• 2:33:12
  Speaker 2: just hard life experiences is the best teacher. So a
• 2:33:16
  Speaker 2: lot of people learn that way. I don't know. I
• 2:33:20
  Speaker 2: don't know what it is for, like, each individual person. Me, like,
• 2:33:23
  Speaker 2: the third person I train with is my boxing coach,
• 2:33:26
  Speaker 2: Dale Roybal. We literally train out of his garage in
• 2:33:30
  Speaker 2: his front yard, you know. And, like, we talk spiritually.
• 2:33:35
  Speaker 2: beyond just boxing. We talk about the world. We delve
• 2:33:39
  Speaker 2: into the spirituality of the gospel and God and what
• 2:33:43
  Speaker 2: that means to us. He's a big-time recurve guy. That's
• 2:33:48
  Speaker 2: who I went and did my archery competition with. He's
• 2:33:50
  Speaker 2: a big-time leatherworking guy. And so we just sit and
• 2:33:54
  Speaker 2: talk about what it means to be a warrior, the
• 2:33:56
  Speaker 2: philosophy and the psychology behind that, what it means to
• 2:33:59
  Speaker 2: control your emotions. When you're engaged with certain aspects in life,
• 2:34:03
  Speaker 2: how do you come out on the other side of
• 2:34:04
  Speaker 2: it Like every day, I mean, oftentimes we stop and
• 2:34:08
  Speaker 2: we're just sitting and talking about things. And, you know,
• 2:34:10
  Speaker 2: my wife's always like, you're just sitting there talking, hanging
• 2:34:12
  Speaker 2: out with them. I'm like, this is part of training, babe.
• 2:34:15
  Speaker 2: We're talking psychology. You know, like it's something we've got
• 2:34:17
  Speaker 2: to spend extra time doing. But I do. Like I
• 2:34:21
  Speaker 2: get there and we'll sit and talk for 30 minutes
• 2:34:23
  Speaker 2: sometimes before we even warm up. I'm stretching and then
• 2:34:26
  Speaker 2: we get into it. He starts wrapping his hands. Like
• 2:34:28
  Speaker 2: we're always just like adjusting and constantly talking about it. So, yeah.
• 2:34:33
  Speaker 1: That's a great resource.
• 2:34:34
  Speaker 2: To me, that's fantastic. It makes fighting spiritual to me.
• 2:34:39
  Speaker 2: It takes it another level up. I got him. We
• 2:34:44
  Speaker 2: really connect on a lot of things. Eric Paulson is
• 2:34:47
  Speaker 2: an absolute legend of the game. I have a lot
• 2:34:49
  Speaker 2: of experience that I learned from him, a lot of mindset.
• 2:34:52
  Speaker 2: He's the same way. Ben Jones, he's the guy that
• 2:34:56
  Speaker 2: you want to go into battle with. He's the one
• 2:34:57
  Speaker 2: that you guys hear in the corner that's super loud.
• 2:35:00
  Speaker 2: He's the kind of guy that, yeah, he's putting you
• 2:35:03
  Speaker 2: through that hardship mentally and physically in the room, and
• 2:35:07
  Speaker 2: if you can endure that, then you can go out
• 2:35:09
  Speaker 2: and fight. So I think there's different levels to it.
• 2:35:12
  Speaker 2: You've got to get it in different ways, but it's interpersonal,
• 2:35:17
  Speaker 2: and you've got to delve into that, and it's got
• 2:35:19
  Speaker 2: to be its own practice, its own training for the day.
• 2:35:22
  Speaker 2: So 100%, I mean, yeah, if you get riled up
• 2:35:24
  Speaker 2: by the littlest thing, and then you go out there
• 2:35:26
  Speaker 2: and you try to go crazy, you're just like a
• 2:35:29
  Speaker 2: kindergartner in this fight game You've lost everything, and emotion
• 2:35:32
  Speaker 2: can do that to you. So, yeah, you have to
• 2:35:34
  Speaker 2: be on top of that. I say there's so many
• 2:35:37
  Speaker 2: levels to this. There's the cardio. There's skill set. There's
• 2:35:42
  Speaker 2: being relaxed. There's an emotional aspect that you have to
• 2:35:45
  Speaker 2: think about because everybody gets hit, and what's the natural reaction?
• 2:35:48
  Speaker 2: I'm going to get you right back. But the best
• 2:35:51
  Speaker 2: fighter can get hit and just not even think about it,
• 2:35:54
  Speaker 2: not even get riled up one heart. Their heartbeat doesn't
• 2:35:57
  Speaker 2: even go up one level. Bam, the game plan stays
• 2:35:59
  Speaker 2: the same. I'm intelligently blocking. I'm doing my stuff. I've
• 2:36:03
  Speaker 2: never deviated from what I'm doing. And if you could
• 2:36:05
  Speaker 2: do that, it's beautiful. You got it.
• 2:36:07
  Speaker 1: That's an awesome mindset, brother. I can't wait to see
• 2:36:10
  Speaker 1: you inside there again. And thank you very much for
• 2:36:13
  Speaker 1: being here. It was a lot of fun. I really
• 2:36:14
  Speaker 1: enjoyed it.
• 2:36:15
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. It was a great experience.
• 2:36:16
  Speaker 1: My pleasure. Good luck in the future. I'm sure I'll
• 2:36:18
  Speaker 1: be calling one of your fights soon.
• 2:36:19
  Speaker 3: Yes, sir.
• 2:36:20
  Speaker 1: All right. Beautiful. Bye, everybody.