Latest / Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel / Rudy Giuliani Discusses 9/11, Politics & Today's Turmoil | Deconstructing NYC's Past, Present & Future

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Rudy Giuliani Discusses 9/11, Politics & Today's Turmoil | Deconstructing NYC's Past, Present & Future · Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel

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• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to Misunderstood. This is Rachel. You could tell
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: I have a really exciting episode today.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: I'm here with former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: a man who took down the mafia, cleaned up New
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: York City and comforted not just me, but the entire
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: nation with his presence and leadership following the attacks of
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: September the 11th.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: It's an honor and a pleasure to welcome.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: You to the show. Thank you, Rachel.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: It's a pleasure to be with you.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: I've wanted to meet you. For 22 years now, but
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: probably longer than that. But I have always admired you
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: and you've been a huge part of my life. Not
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: only because of September 11th, but I don't know if
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: your team told you, but two days after September 11th,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: I went and got a dog to comfort me through
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: my loss. And Andy was my fiance who I lost
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: in September 11th and he forbid me to get a dog.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: I got a dog anyway. But about a week before
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Andy died, the dog who we had only had for
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: a month, he died of distemper.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: I bought him in a pet store.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: I was devastated. And he said, okay, after we were
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: going to Greece, he said, after our trip to Greece,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: we'll get a dog. We come home from Greece. The
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: next day is September 11th. So I had lost my dog.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: I lost my fiance.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: Where does he work?
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: He worked at Sandler O'Neill. Oh, okay.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: So two days after September 11th, I went back to
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: the pet store and I bought a dog.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Who I named Rudy Giuliani.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: And this dog, I'm telling you, to be honest with you,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: was the only stable love of my life that I've had.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: He lasted almost 20 years.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Yes. And so I'm going to show you a picture
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: because I think he's very handsome.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: He's a lot better looking than me. Look at him. Oh,
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: my goodness. Now, what kind of dog is that?
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: He's a Brussels Griffin.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah. What a. Looked like you're very smart, too.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Oh, he was.
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: You could see that.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Took after you, right?
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you. I'm very honored. Yes, yes,
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: of course.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: So anyways, I wanted to get into... I love dogs. Yeah,
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: I know you do. You have one, right?
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: I had one. I don't have one right now. Okay.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: So I wanted to talk to you about your experience
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: on September 11th, because I feel like we obviously have
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: that in common.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: We shared that day.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: I didn't know you when we went through it together,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: but not knowing each other. um so i want to
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: paint a picture for people that are listening right now
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: or watching of what was going on in the state of.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: New york and you know in new york in general.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: In the world homeland security like give us a little
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: bit of a of a paint painting of what what
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: life was like well i mean.
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: It was um it was the beginning of a new
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: administration right uh clinton had had his eight years and
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: then bush won so we were what sort of like
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: about eight months nine months into the into the Bush administration.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: Things were relatively, certainly internationally, things were peaceful. They seemed
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: to be. Although bin Laden had been causing a great
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: deal of trouble. I don't know if we were paying
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: a sufficient amount of attention to it. And he had
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: declared war against us, which I guess we didn't take
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: that as seriously as we should. In the city, we
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: were going through a renaissance. I mean, we were on
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: the cover of one magazine after another as, uh, the
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: city that had reclaimed itself, the city, uh, the city
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: that had come back, um, crime was down to the
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: lowest levels in decades.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: We had gone from 1.2 million people on welfare to 500,000,
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: most of them working. Um, and it was a city
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: with a tremendous amount of optimism. Um, So I think
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: that was a good thing because I think if we
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: had been where we were when I first became mayor,
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: depressed and 75% of the people wanted to leave the
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: city like they do now, uh, we'd had a harder
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: time like dealing with it. Yeah. Um, and, uh, from
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: my point of view, I was near the end of
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: my term. I was, uh, uh, going to figure out
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: what I did next after Labor Day. Right. Um, because, um,
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: I didn't want to spend time thinking too much or
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: looking for a job while I was mayor. It creates
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: enormous conflicts of one kind or another. I had a
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: few ideas of what I wanted to do. I had
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: a contract to write a book.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: Which was very substantial. I think it was a million
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: and a half or two million dollars. Right. So I
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: wasn't worried about supporting myself after I got out. But
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: I also was interested in being– I wasn't going to retire. Mm-hmm.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: In fact, I thought I'd work even harder when I left.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: And so it was about as peaceful as you can imagine.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: The night before it rained really hard in New York.
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: I remember it because it was a rain out of
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: a Yankee game where Roger Clemens was going to try
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: to win 20 games. And I also went to a
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: movie about Pee Wee Reese that night with him. Pee
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: Wee Reese's widow and Jackie Robinson's widow.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: Because the next day we were going to raise money
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: to build a statue of them. And went home, went
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: to sleep, woke up the next morning. It was a
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: beautiful day. And it was also primary day. Okay. So
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: we were having our primary elections, Democratic Party, Republican Party,
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: to nominate the candidates to run for mayor to succeed me. Mm-hmm.
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: And the Democrat primary was kind of crowded. It was
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: like four or five people. Republican primary were really two people,
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: Mike Bloomberg and I can't remember who was running against him.
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: But in any event, I thought, okay, today is going
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: to be a little bit of a lighter day in
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: the morning. So I canceled my morning meeting that I
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: usually had at eight in the morning, made it for
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: the afternoon. And I went and had breakfast with a friend,
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: Bill Simon, and with my counsel, Denny Young, because Bill
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: wanted to run for governor of California. And he wanted
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: my advice. And we went to the Peninsula Hotel. Okay.
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: In Midtown? We had a terrific breakfast. And then.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: What time was that?
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: Well, I probably got there around a quarter to eight.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: And then all of a sudden, as it approached nine o'clock,
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: one of my security people walked in and whispered to
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: Denny Young. And Denny had a very Strange expression on
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: his face, and he said, Mayor, I think we're going
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: to have to leave right away. There's a terrible fire
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: down at the World Trade Center. They think a twin-engine
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: plane hit the North Tower. Right. And it's a disaster. Right.
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: So I got up right away and said goodbye to Bill. He,
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: for some reason, said, God bless you, which seemed kind
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: of ominous. Yeah. Although, because at that point, we didn't
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: know how bad it was.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: And the minute I got out, I looked up and
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: I saw a beautiful sky. And I said, well, this
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: was no accident. So now we have a crazy person
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: or we have a terrorist, one or the other. Right.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: So I just want to say I was in Midtown also.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: I worked for Bloomberg News at the time. I was
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: working on the assignment desk. Mike Bloomberg was my boss.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: And I went into work at 5 a.m. And the
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: thing you remember is how beautiful.
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: That day was. Nope, not a cloud in the sky.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: Not a cloud in the sky, yeah.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: And how warm it was and gorgeous. And also for
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: regular people, it was the first day for a lot
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: of people bringing their kids to school, which was why
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of people were not in the building that day.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: Not as many as would have been.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: So they were.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Running late that morning. But I went in at 5 a.m.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: I remember the the weather like you are talking about.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: And I was sitting on the newsroom floor listening to
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: what was going on.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: We're doing the news of the day, doing our show.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: We had a live show.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: And next thing you know, I hear somebody say the
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: World Trade Center is on fire. And I remember, like
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: you're talking about, everybody assumed and thought and the news
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: was reporting that it was a smaller plane, a guy
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: who probably was out there, didn't know what he was
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: doing and flew into the North Tower.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: So sorry to interrupt you.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: So I got into my van. I sat in the
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: back with Denny and we started down quickly toward the
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: World Trade Center. I tried to reach and I was
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: able to reach a few of police commissioner my deputy
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: mayor joe loda and um but before i did i
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: looked i could see the tower and i could see
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: a terrible fire and it seemed to me it was
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: worse than a twin engine plane yeah immediately uh jenny
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: and i both thought this i think this is worse
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: and i got a call i can't remember the order
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: in which i got them but i got a call
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: from my deputy mayor uh joe loda who told me
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: it's a disaster down here People are jumping out of buildings.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: And I actually thought he maybe was exaggerating a little.
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: Maybe he was caught up in the emotion of it.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: The idea of people jumping out of the building was
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: very hard to take.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: And very hard to imagine of how awful things must
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: have been for their choice to jump rather than stay
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: where they were.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: Then the police commissioner, I talked to the police commissioner,
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: and we didn't know what it was, but We said,
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: we're going to assume it. Let's assume it's a terrorist attack.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: You always assume the worst. We also had a trial
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: going on, uh, three blocks away from city hall, about
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: eight blocks away from the world trade center of, uh, uh,
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: Al Qaeda terrorists. And that had resulted in my having
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: to close down a number of blocks in the city.
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: So we were being warned about attacks, not that kind
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: of an attack, but attacks. Um, And we did know
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: that if it was a terrorist attack, it was probably
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: bin Laden because of the focus on that trial. But
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: at that point, we still didn't know for sure it
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: was a terrorist attack. And as we got about a
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: mile away, very close, I saw a big, big explosion.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: I didn't know what it was. I thought maybe it
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: was a secondary explosion from the first one. And Bernie
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: Police commissioner called me immediately and said a second plane hit.
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: It is definitely a terrorist attack. I said, geez, we're
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: at war. He said, yep. And I tried getting through
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: to the White House and I couldn't. So I said, Bernie,
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: when I get there, let's set up a command post
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: right nearby and let's put in hard lines because we
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: need regular telephone lines. These cell phones aren't working efficiently
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: and we've got to talk to the president. He said,
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: we've been able to get through, and I think we're
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: going to have air cover pretty soon, but we've got
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: to make sure. So I said, okay, well, you set
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: up a command post, and I'll meet you when we
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: set the place we were going to meet, and then
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: we'll have to go over to the fire department command
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: post and make sure everything is coordinated. So I got
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: there 10 minutes later, maybe less. And they came up
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: to me, they meaning my deputy mayor, Joe and Bernie,
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: the police commissioner, the deputy police commissioner, and a group
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: of my staff.
• 12:52
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  Speaker 3: And Joe was the first to tell me again how
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: terrible it was and that we were doing everything we
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: can to clear the area.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Now, at this point, people didn't have the creativity is
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: an awful word, but the creativity to.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Even think that the towers could fall at this point.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Or did you think that there was a chance that
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: they might?
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: You mean quickly? Yeah, quickly.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: Or at all.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: Oh, no. I thought they could fall. You did. Well,
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: not at that point. I hadn't seen quite how bad
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: it was. Right, right. But by the time I left
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: the command post, the fire department, I knew they were
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: going to come down at some point that day or later.
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: But in stages. Okay. Not implode. So I went to
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: the fire department. I took the police commissioner with me.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: I could see that they were setting up a headquarters
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: in a Merrill Lynch building. field office. They threw the
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: people out. People seemed very happy to get out. And
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: they were putting in these big trunks, these big hard lines.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: So I felt pretty secure that we were going to
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: get through. And I said, well, the first thing I'm
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: going to do is I'm going to go see the
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: fire chief because he's running this. And let's make sure
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: he's got everything he needs.
• 14:33
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  Speaker 3: So we walked about three blocks and we got right
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: below the North Tower and Chief Gansey was there with his,
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: the fire department fights a fire with the commander, as
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: close as he can get to getting a full view
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: of the fire, he has like a board, like a podium.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: And on that podium is a recreation of the fire.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: It's where he can move his men around. Yeah. And
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: that's what he was doing. And he already had a
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: lot of people in the building. So I said, when
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: I got there, I looked up and I saw a
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: guy jump. And I tell you, it was crazy. It
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: was really a traumatic experience watching this person jump, watching
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: him come all the way down. And I grabbed Bernie's
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: arm and I said, Bernie, this is different than anything
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: we've faced before. We don't have a plan for this.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: We're just going to have to make the best decisions
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: we can and then ask God to make them right.
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: And he said, well, at least we got a lot
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: of experience. And I said, oh, well, okay. And I've
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: got a lot of experienced people. And I went up
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: to the chief and I said to the chief, can
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: we get helicopters up there? Because there were a lot
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: of people up there. And the chief looked at me
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: and he said it to me in a very interesting way.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: He said, I can't get my guys above the fire.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: So I looked and I could see that there was
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: a firewall. Yeah. And what he was saying is I
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: can get my people. And then he said, I can
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: save everybody. I can save everybody below the fire.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: He was telling me in a euphemistic way. those people
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: up there are dead. Wow. Wow. I don't, I don't,
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: I didn't feel the impact of that until that night
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: when I thought about it. But what he was saying
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: was those people are dead. Yeah. Now I'm emotionally realized
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: because I looked at them and I said, Oh my God,
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: there's people going to die. Yeah. And he said, I
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: can't put a helicopter up there to blow up. Flames
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: are too inconsistent.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: And he said a helicopter rescue for civilians is very,
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: very hard anyway. Right. At that height. But, It's really
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: not in the cards given the flames that are coming
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: out of there. Now, it turns out they did save
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: everybody below the fire. The 9-11 Commission said it was
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: the most effective rescue so far in American history, that
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: they saved every person that was conceivably able to be saved.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: So they saved everybody below the fire. Luckily, they were
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: able to get above the fire. The chief didn't know that,
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: but a few areas they got above the fire. And
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: they were able to get some people down.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: You mean climbing up through.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: The back stairs that weren't affected. But the reality is
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: that 90% of the people above the fire died. Right. Um,
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: and probably even before the bill, many of them, even
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: before the building collapsed from smoking, mostly from smoke.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: Cause the smoke up there was incredible.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: Um, people on the roof maybe survived until the building
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: came down.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: Um, As soon as I finished with the fire commission,
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: I went back to the police department headquarters they had
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: set up. And I asked to get the president. And
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: I got on the phone one of his assistants. who
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: was a good friend of mine and the first thing
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: I asked him is do we have air cover and
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: he said affirmative the minute he said that he was
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: not a military guy and the minute he said affirmative
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: I said oh my goodness we're already into we're already
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: into military language affirmative yeah and it was a funny
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: feeling And he said, yeah, the vice president ordered fighters
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: out to protect New York. They should be there by now. Yeah.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: I said, OK, well, thank God, because we don't want to.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: I said, how many do we know how many more
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: attacks it may be or how many planes are out
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: there or something like that? And he said, we've got
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: about seven or eight that are still unaccounted for that
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: we're tracking and worried about.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: But at this point, had they shut down the airspace?
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: Well, I asked him. I've heard rumors. I said, I
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: heard rumors that they attacked the Sears Tower in Chicago.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: He said, no. The Pentagon. He said, yes. Okay. Yes,
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: they had already attacked the Pentagon by the time this
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: conversation took place. Don't think the plane had come down
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: yet in Pennsylvania. But in any event, he said there
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: were seven more planes unaccounted for And therefore, we should
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: at least be ready for possible other attacks.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: What was your feeling when they told you another plane
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: had hit elsewhere in Washington, D.C.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: My point that we're under attack and who knows what
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: was going to happen. I mean, remember, until later in
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: the day when it stabilized, we were not just working
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: on trying to save people and mitigate. And we were
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: working on this could be five more attacks.
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: It could be.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: So the first thing we did originally is we closed
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: down the bridges and tunnels so nobody else would come
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: in so that whatever number of people we had in
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: the city were frozen. Yeah. And then we tried to
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: get them out. Sure.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: At the same time, we closed the bridges and tunnels
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: because in the first World Trade Center attack, it had
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: been planned in New Jersey.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: And we particularly wanted nobody coming in from New Jersey. Now,
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: since that time we had, we had infiltrated those mosques,
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: which became very controversial later, but I think it was
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: a brilliant thing to do. Yeah. And we knew that they,
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: we knew that they probably were not the cause of
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: it because we knew everything going on in those mosques. Right. Uh,
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: and they had gotten no intelligence about this. So it, and,
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: and they were not connected to Al Qaeda.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: Um, and we were pretty certain it was bin Laden
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: because of the trials there and because of the warnings
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: we had. Uh, We had been warned during the Millennium
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: Celebration in the end of 99 that there was going
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: to be an attack at the New Year's Celebration. And
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: that was going to be from Bin Laden. And as
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: we got closer, the intelligence turned out to be less
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: and less reliable. And I did really consider canceling it,
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: but I didn't. And instead we canceled. And for about
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: two weeks, we did everything we could to make that
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: area safe. We went below ground. I mean, there's a
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: whole city in New York right below ground. We secured
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: that on New Year's Eve. There were police officers below ground,
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: believe it or not, to make sure that nobody could
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: get in there. And that night, when I walked up
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: to press down the button that brings down the door,
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: the ball, which by the way is not really true.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: It comes down automatically and you press a button and
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: you better get it right otherwise you look stupid. But
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: they try to make it look like that. I probably
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: don't trust a mayor to do it on time. When
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: I walked up those steps, it was the only time
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: in my life where I thought I might get shot
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: because they had told us so much about attacks I thought, boy,
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: they just really can't protect you. Yeah. Now, I have
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: had a lot of experience with protection. I was the
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: associate attorney general when Ronald Reagan was shot. And I
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: helped arrest Hinckley. And I helped to rearrange his security afterwards.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: So I was kind of an expert even on my
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: own security. Yeah. Because I had done it for many,
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: many other people.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: And I've been threatened numerous times. And it never bothered me.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: That was the one time I looked at the buildings
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: and I thought about, boy, all they had to do
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: was put one person in there. It's a good shot
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: and I'm gone. Right. And I said- It's interesting.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Sorry. Security is such an interesting thing.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Homeland Security has a huge job that they have to
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: get it right every time and be prepared every time.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: 100%.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: And terrorists only have to get it right once.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: And they don't. Most of the time they get it wrong.
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: Think of all the terrorists we catch. Yeah.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: But- When they get it right, it's... Devastating. It's devastating. Yeah.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: It's like looking for a little thimble in a big,
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: giant bale of hay.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's... With Super Value's Real Rewards prices, you
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: can now get weekly savings on thousands of brands you
• 25:12
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• 25:15
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• 25:18
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• 25:21
  Speaker 4: on your shopping.
• 25:23
  Speaker 5: You know, the other thing strange about it, Rachel, after
• 25:30
  Speaker 5: it happens, you can go back and find the things
• 25:33
  Speaker 5: you should have looked at.
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah. But they were buried. Right. And I've never I've
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: never been a second guesser about this, except a few
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: times where it was obvious. Some of the latest attacks
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: that have taken place. It seems to me something's wrong.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: In our warning system because you've had these people that
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: are mentally ill.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: And they've threatened and they've been online. I think particularly
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: the Boston Marathon, that guy had gone to Russia.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: The FBI decided not to continue but didn't turn it
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: over to the local police. Right. I'd have gone crazy
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: when I was the mayor. They did that to me. Right.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: If they had found this guy who was all involved
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: with the Chechen rebels, had just gone to Russia, but decided, oh,
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: we don't have enough resources, and didn't let the New
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: York City Police Department know, that would have been a revolution.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: I mean, I would have gone crazy. Sometimes you have
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: to do that. You have to stage that in government
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: to get attention. So I think we've gotten sloppy. But
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: the reality is that one, When you found the things
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: that warned about it, they were buried so far in
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: the ground, it'd be hard to say that anybody did
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: anything wrong in not finding it out.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Right, right. After the fact.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: And then the theories, the conspiracy theories about it disgust me. Yeah.
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: They really disgust me. It almost seems sacrilegious, you know.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: I know what happened. Everybody knows what happened.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: So you don't believe it was an inside job like
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: some people?
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: Like the CIA did it or some crazy thing like that? No.
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: Bush did it. Bush did it. Give me a break.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: Give me a break. The poor man. You know, I
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: was with the man a lot during that four-week period.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: The man was ripped apart over it like I was.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: And he did everything. There's not a damn thing we
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: asked him for he didn't do for us. I mean,
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: he was up. I once said that no matter what
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: happens with George Bush, just for the way he reacted
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: after September 11, he'll be a great president. And particularly
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: by hitting them back so fast. We'd have got attacked
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: again if he didn't. I mean, I know that's very controversial.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: But particularly the Afghan war was totally necessary to sock
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: him in the head. Yeah. Because Clinton had been too
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: easy on him. Bin Laden took out a naval ship,
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: other attacks, and we'd go bomb a field. We'd go
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: bomb an empty field. We might as well tell him
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: attack again. Right. And I remember as I was walking along,
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: and this gets a little political, I told Bernie, thank
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: God Gore didn't get elected. Because I figured if Gore
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: got elected, he might, you know. Yeah. He might give
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: him a Nobel Peace Prize. Who knows? But he sure
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: wouldn't hit him hard. Yeah. And I knew Bush. I
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: knew Bush was a tough guy.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: And that he would be a hell of a reaction. Now,
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: you can start debating the Iraq war and all that.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: But that immediate reaction, I think, was critical. to our
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: not being attacked again. And it also took out their resources.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: Those soldiers who were on horses, those people are incredible.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: None of them knew how to ride horses. I met them.
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: They came and brought me, and too bad we're not
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: at home, because I have at home a knife and
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: a headdress of the first guy they killed. Wow. And
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: they brought it to me with a plaque. And they said,
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: I want you to take this for the people of
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: the city. I really should give that to the museum.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: I think I will.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's amazing.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: So let's get back to the day of September 11th.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: What were your feelings when the first tower came down?
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: And where were you exactly?
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: I was in after I finished with the fire department chief.
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: I went back to the headquarters, the temporary headquarters we
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: had set up.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: And what street was this on?
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: So it was on Park Place. and Barrow. So we
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: walked in. The police department remarkably had already transformed it.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: They're all on the phone. And it seemed to me
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: as I walked in, so the White House is on
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: the phone for you. So I went into one office.
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: And it was this gentleman that I mentioned who worked
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: for the president. And I said, I'd like to talk
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: to the president. And he said, we're evacuating the White
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: House and the vice president will call you back. So
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: I had an image in my head that they were
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: evacuating the president from the White House. I did not
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: realize the president was in Florida and speaking to children
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: and what eventually was the case. So that was somewhat
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: ominous when he said that. I thought, my God, the
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: White House is being evacuated. He said, the vice president
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: will call you back very, very shortly. But you have
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: air protection. Be alert to the fact that there could
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: be other attacks. I said, we're anticipating ground attacks, that
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: they might follow this up. They might have people in
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: the city and other cities. My police department is right
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: now securing our 130 locations. So we kept a list
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: of terrorist targets. This started, oh, even before the 93 attack. Remember,
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: I had been U.S. attorney before, which was very helpful
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: because I was very familiar with the Joint Terrorism Task Force.
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: I prosecuted their cases. So the Joint Terrorism Task Force,
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: which is a great idea and started in New York,
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: FBI police department together, sharing intelligence. We used to use
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: arrests of terrorists and then we would go through or
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: the FBI would go through their targets. And from that,
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: we would create a list of their priority targets from
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: one to about 130. And we kept changing it depending
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: on who we arrested. So let's say we had, for example,
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: killed several terrorists in Brooklyn about a year earlier. So
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: we took out of that building all kinds of plans.
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: And based on those plans, and then whatever happened all
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: around the country, which we would get, we would give
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: that to the FBI. They would give us, we would
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: come up with this list. And the number one target
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: on the list was not the World Trade Center. It
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: was the stock exchange. Particularly, almost every terrorist that I
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: ever was involved in arresting or got intelligence about, they
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: had a great interest in our bridges and tunnels. Yeah.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: They had all kinds of plans for our bridges and tunnels.
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: In fact, about a year earlier, we had killed, uh, uh,
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: a guy who had all of the plans for, uh, uh,
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: a subway connection in Brooklyn. And we shot him in
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: the building he was in as he was going for
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: the toggle switch to blow up the building. Oh, wow. Um,
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: So we had a lot of experience with terrorism, but
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: not this particular kind of attack. As soon as I
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: got off the phone, it seemed to me very quickly,
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: one of the policemen came in and said, the vice president,
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: or maybe he said the White House, is on the
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: other phone. So I walked over to offices. I picked
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: up the phone. It was the White House secretary who said,
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: Mayor Giuliani. I said, yes. I said, Vice President Cheney
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: will be on in one minute. I said, thank you.
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: And I'm holding on to the phone. And I have
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: my chief of my security detail, John Huvain, next to me.
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: And all of a sudden, the desk starts to shake.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: It looks like an earthquake. I look outside. I hear
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: yelling and screaming, people going on the desk. John takes me.
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: The phone goes out. John takes me. And John was
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: an Irish football player, big guy. He took me, and
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: he's trying to put me down on the desk. And
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: I said, I'm not going to that desk. Bullshit. I
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: watched Patton. I'm not doing that. So I stood up.
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: I stood up, and I said, what the hell happened?
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: And all of a sudden, Chief Esposito, who is remarkable.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: I had remarkable people. Remarkable guy. I just went to
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: see him in the hospital. Chief Esposito yells out, the
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: tower came down. Now, I thought, and so did John,
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: and so did Bernie, the police commissioner. When he said
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: the tower came down, he meant the tower at the
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: top of the World Trade Center. I didn't think he
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: meant the entire building. But all of a sudden, our
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: building starts to shake like it's going to fall apart.
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: And for about three minutes, I really thought we were
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: going to get killed. I thought it was just going
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: to crash in on us because the building was... So
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: we came out and we huddled together while this is
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: going on. The building is shaking. You can hear noises.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: And did you have windows near you?
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. The window, the windows didn't break, believe it
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: or not, but you could see, uh, outside very quickly,
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: a cloud that looked like an atomic explosion. It looked
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: like what you would imagine Hiroshima, Nagasaki were like. And
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: also in a strange, a strange way, pretty soon wasn't
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: right away. It's like it was, um, It was almost
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: like there was a wind pushing it through. It was
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: like moving.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: So we tried to decide we can't go outside. We
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: can't stay in the building. We just experienced the thing
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: shaking like it was going to fall down. Who knew
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: what was going to happen to it? So I said,
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: I remember this is connected to a building on Park
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: Place where the law department is located. Those buildings are
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: next to each other. I bet there's a connection underground
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: to them. And, um, the police commissioner said, yeah, yeah.
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: So one of them did. So we went down, we
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: went down, this is a group of about 40 people,
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: but it's a very significant group because it's, uh, the
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: police commissioner, the deputy police commissioner and the chief of
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: the police department. Those are the three most experienced people
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: in the police department. There's, uh, three of my four
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: deputy mayors, um, If we had lost that group, the
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: city would have lost two-thirds of its senior management. Yeah.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: So we go downstairs and we try the different exits
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: and none of them open. We go back upstairs thinking
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: maybe things have gotten better and things look much worse.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: Now you can see debris going through the streets. You
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: can see like part of a desk or I don't
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: know what the heck it was. You could just see
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: this debris going through the street.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: And all of a sudden, two guys come up to
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: us that I think worked in the building. And they said,
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: there's one chance that there's a door. They're all locked,
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: but there's one that I think we can get open.
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: Do you want to try again? And we said, sure.
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: So we go downstairs and they opened the door and
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: you could just a sigh of relief. You could hear
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: everybody say, we walk out into the lobby of Park Place.
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: And when we look outside, you sort of say to yourself,
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: I just went from bad to worse because outside was
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: a disaster.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: And people were walking in the building cut.
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: With Super Value's Real Rewards prices, you can now get
• 37:25
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• 37:27
  Speaker 4: when you scan at the till. All you have to
• 37:29
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• 37:33
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• 37:36
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• 37:40
  Speaker 3: And one of my police, one of my deputy police
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: commissioners who had been on my police detail and was a,
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: was a martial arts champion. He comes in looking frightened
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: and cut all right across his face. And he said,
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: it's terrible out there. So we got to decide, do
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: we stay in the building or do we go outside?
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: And I, We talked it over with Bernie and with Denny.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: And we decided, it's the strangest decision. I mean, strange
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: when you think of it in retrospect. We decided that
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: if we went outside, we'd lose less people. Because if
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: we stayed in the building and that building came down,
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: we'd lose the entire top management of the city. Yeah.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: And at this point, other people would join us. But
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: if we go outside, we'll lose some people because they'll
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: get hit. But we're not going to lose everybody. Mm-hmm.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: Were you guys worried at this point that the second
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: tower was going to come down?
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: Didn't even think of it right away.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: And didn't know the tower came down. Oh, right.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: You're still thinking it was the top. Yeah.
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: But, but in the back of my mind and everybody's
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: mind is, this seems like an awful lot of damage
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: for just the top of the building coming down. So
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: we thought that maybe other parts were continuing to come down. Uh, I,
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: and I think then at some point before we went outside,
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: we were told that, that, that the, um, That the
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: tower had come down.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: Entirely.
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but we know what that meant. I expected to
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: see a stump with a lot of the building down,
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: but I never envisioned an implosion. I envisioned it came
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: down like that. So then we did go outside. I
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: held a press conference and I told everyone to go
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: north and get out of there and to remain calm
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: that the police department, the fire department were all coordinated,
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: which they were, and that the rest of the city
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: is being protected against any possible other attack because Bernie
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: and I had dispatched about 150 units of the police
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: department to those targets that I told you about. So
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: we sent some to St. Patrick's. We sent some up
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: to the Bronx. We sent some out to Brooklyn, Kennedy Airport,
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: LaGuardia Airport, the ones that are on that list. And
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: we had run this plan maybe 10 times either as
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: exercises or where we had terrorist attacks that nobody knew about.
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: So this felt comfortable. We knew how to do this. Um,
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: and then all of a sudden we get on the street,
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: we walk about two blocks and I feel John grabbed
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: me again and he starts running me up the block.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: And I said, John, what are you doing? And he said, look,
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: and now we hear this noise. I looked down and
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: he said, I think the second building's coming down. And
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: all of a sudden you see it, you see this
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: thing appear in the, in the Canyon, you know, between
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: the buildings. Yeah. It looks like it has eyes or something. Yeah.
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: And then it starts coming up like this. So we
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: grabbed a lot of people. There was one man who
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: had a hard time walking, and I said, Bernie, let
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: him use your car. So Bernie put a bunch of
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: people in his car and said, get them the hell
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: out of here, civilians. And we continued to walk. And
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: the idea now was, where are we going to set
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: up our command post? Mm-hmm. So we thought of the
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: first precinct, but they would probably have no power. We
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: thought of the police department and called. They had no power.
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: We walked into a big hotel along the way and
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: walked right out because when we walked in, the police commissioner,
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: the fire commissioner and I, we saw that the entire
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: first two floors were all glass. It said it could
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: be a hell of a place. We're all glass. And finally,
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: we decided on. the police academy because the police academy
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: is up around 22nd street. It's out of the area,
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: but it's close enough so you can get there quickly.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: It had power and it's gigantic facility. It's a big
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: facility and it had all the emergency communication equipment that
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: we needed already there. But on the way we passed
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: a firehouse in the village and we decided, well, let's
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: make some phone calls from here. to make sure call
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: the governor. And so we broke in to the firehouse
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: because it had been locked. They were out at the fire.
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: That firehouse lost 12 people. And it was one that
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: I had been to a lot because when I was
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: first mayor, I lost three firefighters from that firehouse and
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: we broke in and I called the governor. And when
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: I got the governor on the phone, he said, thank
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: God we thought you were gone. I said, what do
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: you mean? I thought you were dead. I said, Oh,
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: that seemed kind of weird. Um, They actually had drawn
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: up papers for the emergency governance of the city if
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: I was dead. Wow. My deputy mayor, Rudy Washington, was
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: with the governor, and he was helping them do it,
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: which that's what they should do.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: But I actually didn't know that until much later. Right.
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: That it was that bad. And when he said it,
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: it was a little startling. I knew we were in danger, but.
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: I didn't think people thought we were dead. Right. And
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: I probably, probably didn't realize how long we were trapped
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: because I was so busy trying to figure a way out.
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: It seemed like it went by very fast.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: And then the governor and I decided to meet at the,
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: I told him I was setting up a command post
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: at the police Academy and we decided to meet there.
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: And we made a decision that I think was very,
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: very critical. And as a decision that I, I lecture
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: people about all the time in an emergency. We decided
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: that until this emergency was over, we were going to
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: be together constantly. We're going to put our two staffs together.
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: We're going to hold our meetings together. We're going to
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: make our decisions together. And he said, I will join
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: you at the police academy. And from now on, your
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: staff and my staff will be joined at the hip.
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: And I don't know if he decided. Recommended that, or
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: I recommended that, but we both immediately agreed to it.
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: And the reason we did that is because there's no
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: time in an emergency for the staffs to fight with
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: each other. And they inevitably will. In an emergency, things
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: go wrong. And they're all political. So then they blame
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: someone else. So let's say something went wrong. The governor
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: will be fine with it. I'll be fine with it.
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: The president will be fine with it. But my staff
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: will blame him or his staff will blame me. Plus,
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: you want things to get done like that. So we
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: can't call Albany, get approval, then go to Washington. So
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: they all came together. For the next month and a half,
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: we ran our staff meetings together. He ran the state
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: and I ran the city from our emergency management center,
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: which then moved up to Pier 90 something or other.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: There are a lot of stories that are somewhat well-known
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: in the last 22 years or so that are repeated
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: every anniversary.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: So we know about some of these people that have died.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: Is there a story that stands out to you that
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: people don't know or someone that affected you and still
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: kind of haunts you?
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: I'll tell you one that isn't mentioned enough because you
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: don't know who he is. When I took the first
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: group down first group of family members down to the
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: World Trade Center, which we didn't allow for about 10 days.
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: And I did it by boat because at that point
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: our headquarters was up on the west side, right at
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: the pier, because we needed unlimited space. And we got
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: a boat and we went down and I took as
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: many family members as I could. And one person, was
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: there who had actually been in the building she worked
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: in the building and her father was a firefighter and
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: she worked for i think morgan stanley and she said
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: that i said what you know what what happened in
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: the building because morgan stanley got a lot of people
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: out because of a of the head of security rick
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: rescore who actually went around and to every floor and
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: told them to get out and actually pushed them out.
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: He never got out. He was the last one out,
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: like the captain of the ship. So I knew that story.
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: She said, but you don't know. I wish I could
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: find out who this man is because he was standing
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: by the elevator and he was helping people get on
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: and pushing them in and pushing them in. And I
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: was one of the last people pushed in. And I said, well,
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: you come in now. And he said, no, no, no.
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: let's get the young people. And I've already had my life.
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: And she said, when I got down, as I was
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: coming down, the building came down. She said, and that's
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: going to be with me for the rest of my life.
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: I think about it every night. Yeah. I could see
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: his face saying, I've had my life. You people are young.
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: You go first. I'll get out. Don't worry.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: So do you do something on every anniversary that is
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: special to you?
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Uh, well, a couple of things. I go to
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: the ceremony all the time. I go to church, go
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: to the ceremony. Um, And I get together with my
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: people at night. And then many other things, depending on
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: who needs me. Yeah. I do something with the Tunnel
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: to Towers every year. But I get together at night
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: with the people that I survive with. Yeah. And it's
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: very– I think it's very important to talk about it.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: And I tried afterwards very, very hard to get the
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: right treatment and the right help for a lot of
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: my people, some of whom still resisted because of macho.
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: But the ones who have gotten it have really come
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: through it really well.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: Did you get treatment for yourself?
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: No, but I think I did by talking about it
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: so much.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: I mean, and by getting it for them, I learned
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: an awful lot about what the therapy is and how
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: it works.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: And an awful lot of it is really talking about it. Yeah.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: So it's interesting because I had to go to therapy
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: to deal with it way after. I couldn't at the beginning,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: but it was very hard to speak to somebody who
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: hadn't gone through it. And even when I watch, you know,
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: horrible things that happen, buildings coming down, children being shot,
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: whatever it is, unless you're part of it, you're just watching.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: You're from the outside looking in, and it's hard to
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: really feel the pain that people go through.
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's why. Those groups are so important. Yeah.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: And so for me, talking about it is good, but
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: it's interesting. I still feel the emotions like it's yesterday.
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: Yep. If I get into it, it's like that. I
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: have a very hard time to this day going past
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: that part of town. And my son lives down there now.
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: Lives a few blocks south. In fact, in the days afterwards,
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: I was told nobody's ever going to go back there.
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: Now there are three times more people living there. But
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: it's very hard. And sometimes I'll take a circuitous route
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: so I don't have to pass it.
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: With Super Value's Real Rewards prices, you can now get
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: weekly savings on thousands of brands you know and love
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: when you scan at the till. All you have to
• 49:43
  Speaker 4: do is simply download your Real Rewards app, scan the
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: app at the till, and get great savings on your shopping.
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: New Real Rewards prices from Super Value. Yes, you scan.
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: I've only been to the museum twice, and both times
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: because I had to go. The opening, and then I
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: took President Obama through it.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: And otherwise... when people want to go to the museum,
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: I make arrangements for them and send somebody else. Yeah.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: That's a hard museum to walk.
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: I can't, I can't, I can't. Um, and I've never
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: watched a movie about it straight through the documentaries I've
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: been in.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: Uh, I watched part of them and I put it off. Yeah. Yeah.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: Um, So I just want to tell you a little
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: bit because my, if you were, I don't know if
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: you remember, two days later, an Associated Press gentleman took
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: a photo of me. I was at Bellevue looking for
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: my fiance and just to sort of give you a picture.
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: I do remember.
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: I was 26 years old.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: I had just gotten engaged to who I thought was
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: the love of my life.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: He was 32. His name's Andy O'Grady. And just saying
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: his name makes me cry.
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: Sorry. I didn't mean to do this.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: But I lost everything.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: And going to Bellevue that day, I remember looking on
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: the computer and seeing that he might have been taken there.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: And so with hundreds of other people, I'm standing in line.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: And it was interesting because, you know, everybody made flyers.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: And I don't know why we did that. It was
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: like what everybody did, right? So I got the most
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: recent photo that I had. And I was laughing because
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, God, I would hate this photo, right?
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: But I picked the photo because I loved his smile.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: And I just went where I heard that he was.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: And you're talking to the people in front of you
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: and behind you, listening to their story. And each one
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: was worse.
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: Than the other.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: And it's mothers crying and children crying, looking for their parents.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: And it was just awful. And when I got to
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: the front of the line, they checked his name and
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: said he wasn't there. And there was a bunch of.
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: Sorry, my God. No, that's all right.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: There was a bunch of.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: reporters and they said, just tell us about Andy. I
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: thought it was such a great way to let people
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: know who he was. But looking back, that's what I thought.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: But as a 26-year-old girl, I was like, you have
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: to help me.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know what else to do. I've lost my
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: whole future, my whole life.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: And it was, as a young girl, the worst thing
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: that I've ever been through and I can imagine being through.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: And people don't understand how that affected people's lives.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: And it changes the trajectory of who you are. at
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: that age and probably anyone who went through it, but
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: it was an awful thing.
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: It changed the trajectory of the country. Yeah. And the world.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: It was a, it was an unreal event in terms
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: of being able to describe the magnitude of it. Yeah.
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: It's one of the events. So, I mean, one of
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: the ways to measure the magnitude of it, it's one
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: of those events where everybody remembers where they were when
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: it happened. Of course. I'm sure this happens to you
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: when you tell them you were involved. People almost feel
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: compelled to tell you. People have come up to me
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: in airports and train stations and stopped me because they
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: want me to know where they were. I don't know them.
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: They'll tell me, I was in grammar school at the
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: time and the teacher took us all out of class.
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: Or someone will say, I was at my desk and
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: not even somebody involved in it. I was at my
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: desk and we all.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: Had to leave and And it's the way they connect
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: to that day.
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: Or then people will come up to you who are
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: connected to it.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, right.
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: The ones who were talking to somebody in the building.
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: And then I also lost, that afternoon when I had
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: the second press conference, I was asked, did I hear
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: the tape of the Solicitor General and his wife talking
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: on the phone? That was the plane that went into
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: the Pentagon. And I said, no, I haven't had time
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: to hear anything. And I said, well, the Solicitor General? Oh, yeah, Barbara. Barbara,
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: his wife, died. One of my best friends.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: They'd been in my office five days earlier.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: And I'll tell you, I had to stop and go
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: behind the governor so I didn't cry. Because the deaths
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: that I had heard about up until then, I expected.
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: I expected. I knew what happened. And by the time
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: it was an hour later, I was already in a
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: zone of panic. playing mayor right right but when they
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: hit me with somebody i would never thought of dying
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: in that plane it was like oh my god yeah
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: and then i would say to myself you can't feel this.
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: Now you gotta feel it later yeah that's right you.
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: Gotta feel it you gotta you gotta stop it and
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: you gotta just concentrate you gotta you gotta get this
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: out of your mind because you're not gonna make the
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: right decisions if you get all emotional so right get
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: it out and Think about it later.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: And that day I was working at Bloomberg News. That
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: day I worked until 5 o'clock. I didn't want to
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: go home. And I didn't really shed a tear until
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: a month later when I was in the shower and
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: I was by myself and people had stopped coming around.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: Like you're so surrounded by people at the beginning, right?
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: But then they go back to their lives. And you don't.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: Your life is the same.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: So I think that's when it really hit me and
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: it changed my life. I wanted to ask you about
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: your thoughts on how you feel New York is doing
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: today as opposed to back then.
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: I think New York is doing terrible today.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: It breaks my heart. Somebody came up to me about
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: three weeks ago. A man came up to me. He
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: said to me, Mayor, you know, they've ruined everything you did.
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: And I thought he was being nasty. And I looked
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: at him and I could see almost like a little
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: tear in his eye. And I said, I think you're right.
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: I think you're right. I mean, I didn't think it
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: could be done. I mean, we really had, I left
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: it to Mike. He improved it. We had 20 years
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: of the best city in America.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: Without any doubt about it, we were the best city
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: in America for 20 years. People would come here to
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: learn how to do things. Yeah. When I was going
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: through September 11, Governor Bush and Mayor Daley sent their
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: people here to watch how we handled the emergency because
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: they believed we did it so well. Yeah. And then
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: I went, they were nice enough to invite me to
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: show me what they did. So when I see their emergencies,
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: I feel like, oh, we help them or we help
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: people get in other places, get people off welfare. And
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: we help them find better ways to clean the streets.
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: And we were sort of the leading city. Yeah. And
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: Mike kept it that way. And now all of a
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: sudden it almost as if they can't do anything right. Right.
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: And incredibly stupid decisions that they had like, You know,
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: the mayor announcing we're a sanctuary city and inviting everybody here.
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: And now he's all upset there's so many people here.
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: Well, he invited them here.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: And he decided they could have health care. And he
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: decided they could go to college. And he decided they
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: can vote. Well, why wouldn't they come here? Yeah. And
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: now he's overwhelmed with 70, 80,000 people that he doesn't
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: have the money to take care of the space.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: And he's still doing things like we'll get you a job,
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: which means even more people will come. Right. And they're
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: all illegal.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: If you were mayor right now, is there one thing
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: that you would focus on or do specifically?
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: I'd get them the hell out of here. They don't
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: they don't belong here.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: And the reality the reality is this is the federal
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: government's problem. And the first time somebody bust illegals to
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: my city, I bust them right to Kamala Harris. Yeah.
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: There's a big naval observatory. The vice president lives there.
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: I've been there. She's got plenty of room there. She
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: could have taken care of the first 10,000. Then they
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: would stop. Plus, I'd be on television every night saying,
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: if the president doesn't close the border, we should impeach him.
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: This is all Biden. At the Democratic Convention in 2020,
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: he told the illegals to surge over the border. He
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: told them to surge. He does nothing at the border
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: to stop them. The only people that are checking on
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: them and who they are are the Mexican cartels. We've
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: got people dying of fentanyl in the United States, like
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: at the rate of 100,000 a year. Those are wartime numbers.
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: We're being invaded and they're killing us. And the president
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: is in some kind of a demented state doing nothing
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: about it. And our mayor in New York invited him
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: to come here, but never will say- Biden closed the
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: damn border because he's a Democrat before he's a mayor.
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: My last question on this topic is your thought on
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: crime in the city, specifically the subways. I mean, even
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: as recently as Sunday, another woman was thrown into the
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: subway and is now paralyzed from that.
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like deja vu. Yogi Berra had an expression,
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: deja vu, all over again. Yeah. It's like I'm living
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: in the 1970s and 1980s before I was mayor.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: Do you take the subway?
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: No, I don't take the subway. Wow. But I haven't
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: taken the subway in years. I don't like the noise. Right.
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: Do you have a thought on this latest major issue?
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the man should get a medal.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: The man should get a medal.
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: If I were the mayor, I'd have brought him to
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: City Hall. and given him an award.
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: I would have said that was an awfully brave thing
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: you did. You have no idea if you would have
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: gotten killed. Yeah. This idea like Sharpton gets up and
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: says he was being peaceful. What a lie. I mean,
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: I don't know what kind of minister Sharpton is anyways,
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: a minister who lies. But he was being peaceful. He
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: walked on the train. yelling and screaming, threatening people, throwing
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: garbage at them, telling, telling, telling them basically he was
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: going to kill them. And then he took his jacket
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: off and threw it on the ground. The minute he
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: took that jacket off, you had to say to yourself,
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: now he's going to kill somebody. Yeah. And the, uh,
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: the sergeant, Marine sergeant acted exactly when he should. When
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: that jacket came off, that's the time to stop him.
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: Cause if you wait, you're going to stop him after
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: he kills somebody. Yeah.
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: Uh, I can't imagine that there's a person on that train,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: that subway that doesn't appreciate what he did. I mean,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: people came forward who had been beaten up by this
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: guy and said, I wish Penny was there when I
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: got beaten up. The guy has 45 arrests. So I
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: multiply it by 10. You don't get arrested for all
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: the crimes you commit. Particularly a guy like that. And
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: every time he got arrested, they put him back out
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: anyway because of Cuomo and Hochul and Adams. And I mean, they,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: And this crazy DA we have who thinks criminals should
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: be on the street hurting us. So he did what
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: has to be done in a city in which we
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: basically empower criminals and put them on the street. We
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: have a criminal-friendly district attorney. We have a mayor whose
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: head is somewhere else other than in the job of
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: being mayor. And he did what should have been done.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: Protect people. The city should be doing it. The city's
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: not doing it. Somebody's got to do it. And the
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: guy is a Marine. He's trained to protect people.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: And why they're torturing him, I have no idea. All
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: it's going to do is deter other people. Maybe you're
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: on a subway or I'm on a subway. And the
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: next guy sits back and says, gee, I don't know.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: If I get involved, first of all, I might get killed. Right.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: If I get involved, if I don't get killed, I
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: might go to jail. Now, who's going to come forward
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: except a superhero?
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: I have no idea why we didn't applaud what he did.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: The mayor originally was very good. But now he's doing
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: a whole thing with the family. And you see that
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: the uncle who was the spokesman just got arrested himself.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: So when the family does all this stuff about him,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: I also say, why the hell weren't you taking care
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: of him? Yeah. I mean, you talk about the system
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: failed him. Well, you didn't do much of a job either. Yeah.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, the guy goes into this rehab program and
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: he checks himself out. How come you don't go get
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: him and put him back in?
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Mental health crisis is such a big issue.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: Mental health crisis is an issue, but there's also accountability.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: And don't go start blaming this poor guy who acted
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: that way. Yeah. When I can't imagine you as a
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: family did what you should or otherwise it wouldn't be
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: on the street.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: Right. Well, you're a busy man. I know your places
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: to be.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to do a quick lightning round with
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: you to lighten the mood for one second, if you
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: don't mind.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: Favorite restaurant in New York?
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: Fresco.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: What TV show are you binging right now?
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: I'm rewatching the Tudors. Okay.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: What was your favorite Tina Turner song?
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: Gosh, I don't remember.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: What's love got to do with it? Did you like
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: that one?
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I did.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: Okay. What is your favorite city and why?
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: You mean other than New York? Sure. Well, New York's
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: my favorite city. There's no doubt about it. I debated
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: the mayor of London, who then became the prime minister,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: about which city is better, New York or London. And
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: I won based on the restaurants. Right. There's nothing compares
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: to New York. Okay. New York is a thing unto itself. Okay.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: What does success mean to you?
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: Helping people. I'm feeling a sense that you made a difference.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: What does failure mean to you?
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: Failing to do that.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: Do you know what Scandaval is? Do you know who
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: Tom Sandoval is?
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: Sandoval?
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: Have you heard these names?
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: These are people in reality TV. It's the biggest scandal
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: in America right now.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: I don't watch reality TV much. I know all those
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: housewives things and I've met some of them and they
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: come up to me and say, I'm on the housewives
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: of Mars or whatever. And I say, gee, I don't know.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: That's nice. That's really good.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: It doesn't impress you then?
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: No, the reality shows don't. Okay.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: Um, what are you doing right now that we should
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: be aware of? What should we look for from you
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: in the future?
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm building, I'm building, uh, uh, I'm building my
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: own channel. Now we're up to really good numbers, half
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 3: a million. Pretty soon we're going to expand even further.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: I really feel that we've got to create as many
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: First Amendment respecting media organizations as possible. So I'm in
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 3: the middle of creating one online. Plus here on ABC,
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: I get a chance. I feel like I give people
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: news that's censored, that's suppressed. You know, for example, yesterday,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: Biden said that Pelosi helped get us through the Great Depression.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: That's insane. Recently, he said he gave his uncle the
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: Purple Heart when he was vice president in the White House.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: His uncle was dead for seven years before he was
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: in the White House. So they don't tell people that. Well,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: the American people should be informed that their president is
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: non-competent menace. The president of the United States is losing
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: his brain and doesn't know sometimes where the hell he is.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: When he went to Cambodia, he thought he was greeting
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: the president of Colombia. Those are things that we're entitled
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: to know because a country is entitled to have a
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: president who knows what they're doing and knows who they
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: are and knows where they are. And Biden has been
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: For some reason, the crooked press in this country takes
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: on the mission of covering up everything for him. He's
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: also a massive criminal. 30 years of taking millions of dollars.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 3: I have it all in my apartment on the hard drive.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 3: And he's sitting in the White House. He's obviously in
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: some pretty late stage of senility. And he's a 30-year
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: serial criminal. And I think he's got to be brought
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: to justice.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: And last question.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: Speaking of presidents at the moment, DeSantis came out today
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: or is coming out now on Twitter with Elon Musk,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: as you know, announcing his presidential bid.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: What do you think of the way he's doing it?
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I like the way he's doing
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 3: it because I'm on Twitter. And I was the first
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: one to do, I think, a live show on Twitter.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 3: And we've got tremendous numbers. So all this is going
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: to do is help us. And I actually put that aside.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: I think it was the it. you have to look
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: at it from DeSantis' point of view. He's far behind.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: And so when you're far behind, you've got to throw
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: a curveball. Nobody's going to pay attention to just a
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: regular announcement. So I think it was very smart to
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: do it that way. Even though you say, well, it's
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 3: only a limited audience, it's still millions of people. Second,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: if he doesn't do that, he doesn't get one of
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 3: America's heroes right now sitting next to him. Particularly for
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 3: the right. I mean, I think Musk is probably the
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: second most popular person among Republicans right now. Trump is
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 3: the most popular.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: 70%.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: But Musk is probably the second. And to have him
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 3: sitting next to you is worth a lot at an announcement.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: So you might as well go on his channel and
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: do it. But right now, I think it's probably not doable.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 3: I don't think he can catch Trump. You don't. And
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 3: I have a funny personal feeling about it. Because I
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: do know that Trump made him governor. Not only did
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 3: he make him governor, he sent me there to help him,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 3: ordered me to go there, even though I was involved
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: in defending him at the time. And I'm Italian, and
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: loyalty is very important. And so was he, DeSantis. In fact,
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 3: his family comes from the same town in Italy as
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: my family, in Avellino, Gesualdo. Very few people come from
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: that town. And I don't understand it. The man made you.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: You're a young man. He's an older man. Let him
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 3: have his chance. Let him have his chance to redeem himself.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 3: I mean, he left the country in great shape. This
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 3: crook who's demented took over and ruined the country. The
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: country's ruined right now. Got people killed that shouldn't be killed.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: None of those people in Ukraine be dead if Trump
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: would remain president. Putin would have invaded Ukraine if Trump
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: were president. Not in a million years. So all those
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: people in Ukraine would now be alive if we hadn't
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 3: made that mistake. How about the people in Afghanistan that
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 3: got killed because of him? And how about people all
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 3: over America that are getting killed because he's got Soros
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: district attorneys letting criminals go free? Soros is the biggest
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: contributor to those district attorneys, to Black Lives Matter, to Antifa,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: and to Joe Biden. So we can't take a chance
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: are not winning the next election. We may not have
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: the America that we love if we have it right now.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: And lastly, I just want to throw this in there.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: Do you feel misunderstood? And if you do, what do
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: you think is the most misunderstood?
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: Of course I feel misunderstood. All the people who attack
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: me have no idea what a decent, wonderful, nice person
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 3: I am. And that I'm thoroughly honest. I mean, they've
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: accused me of every crime imaginable. They've investigated me more
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: thoroughly than just about anybody with Donald Trump. They investigated
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 3: 20 years of my business activities. They took everything I have.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: They didn't find anything. They couldn't even make anything up.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 3: So I wish they would stop these ridiculous attacks. I'm
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 3: an alcoholic. Somebody just said that when I wake up
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: in the morning, I drink scotch. It's totally ridiculous. How
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: could I have accomplished what I accomplished? I was an alcoholic.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: I was going to say, how would you get through that?
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: I mean, an alcoholic destroyed the mafia. An alcoholic was
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 3: able to take over the Teamsters Union and change it.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 3: An alcoholic led the city on September 11th or reduced
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 3: crime more than any mayor in the history of the
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: city or any city ever. Nobody comes close to the
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 3: crime reduction that I did. There's nobody, there's no mayor
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 3: in history that ever reduced crime by 60%. And no
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 3: mayor ever saved more black lives than I did because
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: most of the lives saved by that were black. So
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: I don't mind if you politically oppose me. My political
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: views are conservative and Republican. And I respect people who
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 3: are liberal and Democrat. I don't respect people who lie
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 3: about me and get so insane about it that they
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 3: have to personally attack you. And it's getting worse and worse.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: I have read the most ridiculous things about me. that
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: have nothing to do with who I am.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: And the media has such power with narrating a story
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: for someone and the public's appetite for that feeds on
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: it and feeds on it and makes it bigger and bigger.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: And a lot of times people do not know how
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: to defend a fact from fiction.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 3: Sometimes it hurts me. Sometimes it hurts me because there
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: are things that are really important to me. My reputation
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: as a lawyer is very important to me. And the
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: Bar Association of this city, which is left of left
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: of left and woke to an ultra extent suspended me
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 3: because I'm a danger of causing a riot. It's absurd.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: I had nothing to do with that riot. In fact,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 3: a judge, an Obama judge, dismissed me from a case
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: saying that. But the Bar Association still refuses to allow
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 3: me to practice my profession because they hate Trump. The
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 3: hatred of Trump is a sickness. And then they go
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 3: after his lawyers, his friends. They try to destroy you.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 3: They don't just try to oppose you. They tried to
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: destroy you. Took away my law practice. They tried to
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 3: get me fired here all the time. That's why I
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 3: started my own network, my own channel. Because they can't
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 3: stop me. And I'm not going to stop. I'm not
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: going to keep my mouth shut. And I'm going to
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 3: tell the truth. Otherwise, the worst thing would happen. I
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 3: wouldn't respect myself.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: Right, right. So if people want to hear more from you,
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: they can listen to you.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 3: Oh, they can listen to me on RudyGiulianiCS.com. They can
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 3: go right there and they can get everything. They can subscribe.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 3: And then I'm on WABCRadio.com every day and on Sundays.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 3: And then they can go to Twitter and they can
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 3: get me 8 o'clock at night every night. They can
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 3: also get me on YouTube and any of the social
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 3: media at 8 o'clock at night. Great.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: I appreciate you doing this. It was such a pleasure.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: And I wish you the best.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 3: I wish you the best too.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to Misunderstood. I'm your host,
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: Rachel Yucatel. Please be sure to subscribe to the show
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: and give us a five-star rating and review. You can
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: support the show by joining our Patreon at patreon.com slash misunderstood.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: With Rachel Yucatel.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: Do you have ideas for the show or want to
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: reach out? Email us at infomisunderstoodpodcast at gmail.com. That's spelled
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: M-I-S-S understood. Thank you so much, and I'll see you
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: next time.
• 1:13:45
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• 1:13:46
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• 1:13:50
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