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SoWhoCaresAnyway E45 The Quiet Work of Listening · SoWhoCaresAnyway

Welcome to So Who Cares Anyway?, a fortnightly podcast exploring stories that shape care, community, and the systems we live in.
I'm Ruth Germaine, and in each episode I'm joined by my guests, people from behind clinical doors to the North York Moors, whose experiences open a window into how we care for one another.
Together, we explore care through creativity, connection, and the strengths we already hold.
0:30
Because care isn't small.
Care isn't soft.
Care shapes the world.
So who cares anyway? It's time to talk about it.
Today it's a reflection with myself, and it's something that I've been thinking about or think about regularly for quite a long time really.
But I saw something the other day that I just wanted to share.
So the core thing is, that I often think about, is we learn things, we know things, so we might go off on study days, we might go and do things.
But actually when we do that, how do we actually live them in action? And quite often that's really hard to articulate.
I know that myself.
Um, what does it take to turn knowledge into something real in practice that creates change or helps us to do something differently? And why does this matter? Well, I've seen people, you know, I've helped to develop CPD days, courses, training, and I know that they give us information, but that doesn't relate, translate into day-to-day behavior automatically.
That is actually the hard part.
And that's where we need to think about how we value learning events, but we also value learning in the practice, in the moment that it happens.
So let me tell you about the experience that happened the other day.
So I was running some workshops around co-creation with people with learning disabilities and autistic people, and I had a few people that couldn't attend.
So there was somebody who was really keen to meet with me.
So I said, "Absolutely fine.
Let's arrange a separate date and I'll come and meet you."
So I went down to the university, and, uh, when I got there, she was there.
I could see she was nervous, and she said to me, "Oh, I'm a bit unsure now I'm here.
I don't know what you want, um, or if I've got anything that's useful for you, if I'll be able to tell you anything."
So I said, "No, no, I just want to hear from you today about what's going on."
I'd explained a little bit about what I was doing.
I said, "But you tell me about what's going on for you, and then we can use that context for me to think about it and apply it to what I'm doing.
2:50
Don't worry about it at all."
So she told me, she told me about how she was falling between services.
So she'd been transferred from one service to another, uh, hadn't been picked up by the new service.
She was struggling to navigate the system.
And because of what she was wanting to be seen for, she needed extra support.
It was all, seemed complex.
There was barriers everywhere she went, emails and not being able to be seen, seen in person, and this is somebody with lived experience.
That was why I'd invited her to the workshop.
So she was, had-- she told me that she had ADHD, and she had autism.
What she didn't have was she didn't have a lack of knowledge.
She had a lack of support and a lack of recognition as to who she was.
It wasn't anybody's fault.
It was just the way everything was set up.
So I just listened to her and asked her a few questions as we went, and she told me things.
And here's some of the deeper things I noticed about her.
She started telling me about courses that she had been on, that she'd paid for herself, in some cases, in order to improve her career.
She started quoting Carl Rogers that she'd read, so she wasn't talking about some light reading.
She was actually quoting something she had learned and was applying it.
She had insight, and what was really obvious is she'd spent two years trying to get the right care for herself, but she was motivated to continue to try and get that right care, even though she was struggling.
She was motivated enough to come and see me, even though she knew that I wasn't going to fix her.
And possib- probably, I'm not gonna fix the system, if you like, the way things work, whatever you want to call it.
But she was motivated to still come and see me because it might make a small difference for someone, and she was motivated to improve herself.
And she was also obviously intelligent, but what she wasn't getting was she wasn't getting that back or seeing that reflected back to her when she was trying to get the care that she needed.
And then she said something to me.
She just said one small sentence: "People improve when they feel listened to."
And that's the moment when I stopped and reflected and thought, "She's not asking me."
To fix her or to fix the way things work or anything else.
She's not asking anybody to do that.
I mean, obviously, that's what she wants and needs, but actually, she just wants to feel listened to.
And I would probably just extend that to say listened to and recognized.
So I paused for a moment and said, "Oh, that's really interesting," and I was jotting in my notebook as I do, so I just underlined it a few times, which gives me a little moment for my brain to think.
And I thought, "You know, this is an intelligent, motivated lady.
She's got persistence."
Um, that's what I said to her.
I said exactly that to her, "Look at, look, here you are, you're intelligent, and you're motivated."
She brushed it off at first and was like, "Oh, yeah, yeah."
So I said, "No, no, no," I said, "you are.
You've, you've been You've done these courses.
You can discuss in depth reading that you've done.
You can discuss that at depth and apply it and think about it, and you're still struggling to manage this.
That isn't your fault.
6:21
It's just that we need to think about how can we do that differently."
And she suddenly changed from being this, "Have I got anything to give? Is this useful? I'm not sure if this is what you want from me.
Um, oh, I know, I'm just asking for things.
I'm trying to get the right care," to being something else.
Her posture changed.
She sat up straighter.
6:47
She seemed more confident and more present, and she started to talk about what she might do going forwards, whereas when she'd walked in, she felt like she'd done everything.
I didn't fix her.
I just simply listened to her and met her and just showed back what I saw, so I recognized her.
I suppose you might call that attunement.
So knowledge in itself doesn't create change.
Being seen helps people access what they already know.
Being seen, being heard, being recognized, and attunement is the bridge between information and embodiment.
In other words, what we do to what we know to what we do.
And so often, so often, we focus on training and workforce development and modules and people going off to do things.
But people need recognition, and they need to be involved and be a part of that because there's so much that we can learn from other people.
We should learn with and from the people that it's about.
They should be involved in our learning because this lady could tell us so much if we stopped and listened.
And our learning doesn't have to be on a study day.
It can be on the end of a phone.
It can be just stopping and thinking when you get that email land.
I know that's really hard.
I know how busy things are now and how much people have to do.
But it's those small micro moments that make a difference.
That's where change happens.
It isn't the study days.
It isn't the modules.
8:35
And I'm not mocking them.
They're absolutely important.
I've done plenty myself.
But it's when we come back and just take that moment to stop and think and reflect.
So she still needs her assessments.
She still needs her appointments.
She's still hoping that somebody will assess whether she still needs her medication.
And if she does, to be able to get that again.
8:58
This lady still faces barriers and I didn't solve anything.
Sometimes we can't and we have to accept that.
But hopefully I helped to reconnect her with her own agency and her own voice.
So sometimes it's the small things that we can do that make the different biggest difference.
9:20
So remember, next time you're not sure what to do, start with listening.
As she said, people improve where they feel listened to.
9:28
And I will say, take it a step further.
Once you've listened, recognize who that person is.
And if they're not seeing it themselves, show them.
If it's something positive, show them.
Because you don't have to be able to fix everything.
Sometimes being present is enough.
And then afterwards, you can think about or we can think about what is it that we might do next to make a difference.
Because all those micro moments will add up.
I hope you got something from that.
But it was another one of those moments that was sticking in my mind that I've been thinking about.
Thank you for joining me and until next time.
I hope today's conversation gave you something to think about.
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But for now, stay caring, stay connected, stay curious.
Thanks for listening.