Latest / Petty and Unbothered / #8 - A petty divorce album with personality
Transcript
- Robin Axline: Hi, welcome to Two People Deciding Which Minor Inconveniences Deserve Major Reactions. I'm Robin, a creative multi-hyphenate improviser, and ready for all the randomness you didn't know you needed. And here is my co-host with the most, Laura. So, yeah. Tita Lors: you Wait, can I, as an aside, I'll probably take this out later. Our podcast is so bipolar. Robin Axline: What made you say that? Tita Lors: Because it's like tea time with me and then it's like petty grudges or what is it that you say? Minor inconveniences and major grudges. Yeah, I know. we have like different, depending on who's hosting, which is totally fine, we have like, it's a completely different flair or flavor. They're getting two different podcasts in one. Robin Axline: Minor inconveniences. you You guys getting a bonus in there. Yeah. Tita Lors: I know, it's just saying, you're all welcome. Robin Axline: So, yes, so happy that y'all are joining us today. And I've got kind of a... medium or I guess big topic to bring to the table today. It's gonna be a special episode with lots to cover. ⁓ And honestly, I think there's probably gonna have to be a part two because I... it's too much and I don't want to just run past things too much. So I guess I'll get to it. when I have thought of petty things recently, ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ that comes to mind is Lily Allen. Like, seriously. Tita Lors: Sorry. All I think, the only thing really that I know about what you're going to say is what Ian sent us. The receipt dress is the only thing. And then when you said that you're going to dive into it, I was like, yes, cool. I don't have to do any research. Robin Axline: Ugh. Mm-hmm. Nice. That's pretty good. Yeah. I guess you could say not like a hardcore fan, but I've been a fan of her since her first record in early aughts, mid aughts, something like that. ⁓ It was like a pretty, pretty great release. And some of the album or the albums in between are kind of meh. They did come out with Tita Lors: you Robin Axline: Did you, did you, have you heard the one that's like, thank you, thank you very muuuch. Tita Lors: Yes. I really like that song. Robin Axline: That was like her big hit in the middle albums that came out of that. But otherwise I feel like this new, new version of her is like pretty incredible. It really, yeah. And I feel like upon like multiple listens, it gets better. Cause when I first heard it, I was like, ⁓ it's whatever. But then once I thought about it more, it spoke to my love of concept album. Absolutely. Yeah, she's that girl. Mm-hmm. So if if you give it a listen, don't be too harsh. That's at least my experience. But really grew on me, especially because it had a story arc. It starts out almost like a. movie like there's like an opening scene where it's setting the tone and then there's a little bit of like ups and downs chaos in the middle and then it kind of ends on a note that's like the end of the like the thesis statement Tita Lors: I went to a concert recently where it felt like that. She's actually really well known. Why don't I remember who it was? Robin Axline: We went to a concert. I was just like this person, wasn't, yeah, I wasn't paying attention. Tita Lors: Okay, I went because my friend was going, so we have a theater that's near us and they have really good summer concerts usually, like the lineup for this year's summer concert, there's like nine things that I really wanna go to. ⁓ So that year, I think it was last year, my friend was like, do you wanna go to this concert? ⁓ And I didn't, it's not one that I would have originally been like, ⁓ I just have to jump on these tickets, but it was one of like, ⁓ yeah, if you're going, go and it was right like $70 maybe or whatever ⁓ but I think I had a concept of what that was going to be about and the kind of artist that this person was and then we got to the concert and both of us were really confused. Robin Axline: ⁓ yeah. Mm-hmm. What? Tita Lors: Wait, what? Um, I, cause we've, we've known her. I wish I could remember who it was, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm going to try looking it up while, while I tell the story, but she. Robin Axline: I'm just like, who is this? Anyways, keep going. Tita Lors: We thought she was like very poppy or whatever, but she actually came in to, I don't know if it's like grunge music, music originally, but more like rock style. And that seemed to be the kind of music she played originally because everybody was like, yeah, and really getting into it. And she's like, this is my older style of music. But my friend and I were so confused because she was like it was a she's kind of like turned our actor ish. I don't remember what movie she was in. too. But ⁓ she, was like a movie or a play or yeah, like a play that had a whole story arc of like Alice in Wonderland. People are gonna know exactly who I'm talking about. Yeah, they're like. Robin Axline: screaming in their cars screaming on the treadmill Tita Lors: I can't believe you don't know who it was. I, sorry, I suck at remembering people's, probably not, but like, yeah. I don't remember, but it was, it was a really good show, regardless, but yeah, it had like a story arc and I learned about her. Robin Axline: You're causing like car accidents. ⁓ Tita Lors: style and where she, I don't know, like started and I was like, ⁓ this was the most interesting concert I've ever been to, like unexpectedly. But yeah, I'm gonna remember eventually. I'm trying to think of a song that she sang. Robin Axline: Yeah. And there was like good set pieces and... Tita Lors: Yeah, like it was a full story. She and either was even like a movie that was playing where she was like she was the character of Alice in Wonderland. She was a character of Alice in Alice in Wonderland and like going through these different worlds. So every time she would end up in like a different space, she would have a different kind of vibe to her music. So it would go into like rock screamer ish and then like pop and then like Robin Axline: That's cool. At least it wasn't the opposite where you're like, this is terrible, get me out of here or something. Tita Lors: Yeah, it definitely was. God. Although I was recently at a concert like that too. ⁓ yeah, actually that one was super annoying. Sorry, this is such a tangent. ⁓ But that one was super annoying because it was supposed to be like, was that the one? Yeah, so we thought that it was going to be 112 and Jagged Edge and, ⁓ right? And yeah, Tyrese and like all these people. Robin Axline: No. Ooh, nice. ⁓ is that peaches and cream? Is it somebody else? Tita Lors: ⁓ my god. No, no, no, that's somebody else. I think. I'm horrible with artist names. I'm not the person to ask, but yeah, so ⁓ Jagged Edge was actually the headliner and the entire time. Robin Axline: Okay. Tita Lors: either and we were just like yeah I was like okay my ears hurt my head hurts it's a weekday first of all we're all tired we've all been working and it's almost midnight so yeah yeah we ended up leaving in the middle of the Jagged Edge set it sucked but yeah Robin Axline: ⁓ God, that sounds bad. A sound can really make or break a show, Tita Lors: Yeah, it can. So it was, I was really shocked that they would put on a show in this arena and have poor sound quality. And it seemed like they had a different sound crew for each performer because some performers had good sound quality and people who actually worked on it and good lighting and all that stuff. And some of them, was the production value was terrible. And I was like, come on, you guys, what is happening? Robin Axline: That's crazy. I'm gonna share my screen with you really quick. hold on, hold the phone. One second. Tita Lors: just typed pop artist who is now an artist. Robin Axline: ⁓ man, I'm sure that came up with a ton of stuff. check it out. They did do peaches and cream. I was doubting myself. Tita Lors: Okay. ⁓ huh. We did. ⁓ don't. I'm not very good at remembering things. I'm so proud of you. For remembering. Yes. Jesus. ⁓ my goodness. Robin Axline: Thank you for a song from 2001, guys. Okay. I just had to find out for myself. Tita Lors: to prove that you're not crazy. Yeah. ⁓ and I found out that I totally gasped at myself in our first episode where I was like, I'm pretty sure the girl had mentioned something to the guy of like, you know, if you're just gonna, if you don't want to be around me anymore, then just say so, right? Like, don't. Yeah, so she, she did say it, but I couldn't find it fast enough. And was like panicking. So I totally just gasped at myself thinking it didn't happen. Robin Axline: All good. All right, folks, if you were wondering, that's what happened. If you were losing sleep. Tita Lors: Yeah! If you were to sleep about it, which I'm sure you weren't... Robin Axline: Who knows? I mean, our super fans might, might be. So, yes, so where we left off is... Let me dial it back. ⁓ I was talking about how I have this love of concept albums and I actually took a class in college regarding... Tita Lors: Sorry, back to the meowing. you Robin Axline: concept albums and like how an album can take one topic. And I would say probably the one that got pretty popular is of recent years is the Green Day one. And they actually, there was a Broadway musical made off of it. ⁓ it's, You know, hold the phone. What was that? I'm like talking about it. Tita Lors: We're both so I know I'm still my brain is still on like what concert did I go to? ⁓ OK, that one. Yeah, OK. Robin Axline: ⁓ American Idiot, duh. Yeah, yeah, they made a Broadway show about it. ⁓ You are gonna remember that girl's name, I just know it. Tita Lors: I'm literally looking it up right now. This is bothering me so much. You just keep talking. I'm looking it up. Robin Axline: Okay, okay. ⁓ Yeah, so I just wanted to jump right into it and just say, what if... Essentially, people are calling this album a breakup album because it's literally about... ⁓ okay, let's go. Tita Lors: Yes. I found it. It was Halsey. Robin Axline: yes. She is in movies and yes, okay. Tita Lors: Yes, yeah, it's like, what an art. was so master. OK, anyways, I've said enough. Continue. Yeah, Lily Allen. Robin Axline: No, it's all good. No, yeah, that's. She did a pretty creative performance on when she was on SNL, as I recall. So that kind of checks out with her vibe. Yes, so. recent ⁓ times. Tita Lors: Yeah, I did it. Yeah. Robin Axline: lot of things ⁓ been kind of in the press regarding Lily Allen's ⁓ David Harbour, who ⁓ Hopper on Stranger Things. And he was accused of... being offensive to Millie Bobby Brown, she went to the press and said that she was like uncomfortable around him. if you see like on the recent press junket of this last season of Stranger Things, she's like not about like standing next to him or anything. I think as much as she could help it, I think she kind of like was like, get away from me. Yeah, and then in the story, you know, their father, daughters, it's even more weird. Tita Lors: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Robin Axline: ⁓ yeah, and side note, I was in a digital short for SNL and he was the host that time. And I thought he was just really funny and nice because I was like hanging around the set all day. Yeah. Hmm? ⁓ this is like a few- a few years back, but ⁓ I just thought he was nice. I didn't get any vibes like that, so it's kind of surprising. ⁓ and I will tell you, one of the most genuine people was Keenan. Like, you think he is like that, but he really is like that. He do be- be a nice, so. Tita Lors: ⁓ Robin Axline: Yeah, I was like, and he was like, it was this nice because he was talking to everybody. He didn't seem above. ⁓ He didn't have that air about him that there was some kind of hierarchy. So that was refreshing. Anyways. So I didn't get that vibe from him, but apparently it's true. It's true that he's like not the greatest dude. So was kind of hard for me to watch the last season of Stranger Things without that in my head. Yeah. But- Yeah, I know. I mean, this is all, you know, hearsay, but I sounds pretty real to me. Anyway, ⁓ so. This, excuse me. Album that they're calling a breakup album. I was thinking like, is this evidence of what actually happened in their relationship blown up to be entertaining? And she's just using the art for creative purposes to... tell her side of the story or it's just hard to tell like how factual some of this is. But. Exactly. Yeah, so this whole album is basically it kind of starts at the point where their relationship is super on the rocks. And there's like a phone, she kind of reenacts like a phone conversation she had with them. And there's a reenactment of a phone conversation she had with his mistress person also. It's like an interlude almost like you know on the old like rap albums there used to be like these little... I was like hell yeah. Tita Lors: Yeah. Yeah. Hey, do you know so-and-so? Yeah, I know so-and-so. And you know what song I'm talking about too, right? Robin Axline: Yes, exactly like that. Just a little like talking bits. I kind of missed that. So. Yeah. Of course I do. But they squash their beef. Yeah. Tita Lors: Okay, good. They did, yeah. Robin Axline: Okay, so... So this album isn't just a documentary about her heartbreak, it's more like a narrative and it feels like pretty carefully structured and theatrical in my opinion. And it really reminded me of a musical. In fact, ⁓ Lily Ellen confirmed that she was in talks to make it into a Broadway musical. IRL. Yeah, and also like from the clips I've seen of her stage show, it really looks like a play already. Like you saw the dress. So. But yeah, so basically. It's the album like starts out with talking about her West End debut and West End is the Broadway of England, basically. Tita Lors: Yeah. I really appreciate you telling me these things because I won't know what you're talking about. Robin Axline: Well, yeah, didn't want to be like mansplaining or whatever, but I... So it starts with her getting a part in a play on the West End. And it's called 2-22, A Ghost Story. And basically, after that, it goes into... his reaction to her getting the part he's like a jerk about it and she has she literally moved to Brooklyn with him and they bought a house and everything and then she got this gig so she had to go back over the pond and leave the family But basically, it opens kind of like a play, and then there's like all this tension and beneath the whole story, it turns out that they had a decision to open their relationship. And it sounds like it started consensually, but then the lyrics are like... talking about how rules were broken, the boundaries that they had set. And it's actually kind of sad because it sounded like she agreed to it under pressure. And it was more like his thing. So it was kind of unfortunate. Tita Lors: Mm. You never, I think like open relationships in general, you have to respect the boundaries because you're already, there's so much trust already that you're putting into opening up your relationship. There's, there's a lot of love in your, in your like primary relationship, hopefully. And that's a good foundation that then allows you to open it up and explore different avenues of affection or whatever. Robin Axline: ⁓ yeah, go ahead. ⁓ yeah, no, 100%. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, mean, so many things can go south if you don't have just like those things set in place to start out with. And I think a lot of it happens to when the rules get changed in the moment. And I think that's really, really detrimental to any arrangement. ⁓ So speaking of like the phone call she mentions in the song, it's like he calls her while she's in London and is like, basically I need sex or something. And she's just like, well, if that's going to make you happy, I guess, like, okay. So he's already kind of like pushing the boundaries of what they set, apparently. Tita Lors: for it. Yeah. Robin Axline: And so she was like pretty upset about that. And the crazy part is... Or well, one of the boundaries that they set was it has to be somebody that we don't know and you have to pay for it. And it can't be at our house. It can't be at our house. And you can't have like an emotional relationship with this person. I think in one of the songs too, it was like no kissing or something like that too. But that seems a little extreme. Like. Tita Lors: I don't like horror movies. I mean, I know people do it, but... It's not as fun. Robin Axline: Yeah, No, heavens no. So... Basically, you know, all those rules and arrangements went out the window, it sounds like. And her visuals are pretty incredible. Like, the receipt dress is all... Tita Lors: Yeah. Robin Axline: receipts that her ex bought ⁓ for different women. Like presents and things. So... Tita Lors: Okay, well, that's an emotional connection right there. Robin Axline: Yeah, yeah, exactly. ⁓ And another thing that she in the album, she doesn't name the main person that she's talking about, because apparently this woman came forward who was working in wardrobe on a movie that the husband had been working on. So she came forward and she's like, I was that person that he hooked up with. And so she does ⁓ a character in the album and she names it Madeline or Madeline Madeline and The Petty Behavior release started when she was at a, like, Hollywood... Halloween party and she dressed up like Madeline, the cartoon character. Tita Lors: You Robin Axline: Yeah Tita Lors: I mean, go her. Robin Axline: You Tita Lors: Like, this is a really cool way to say that I know, and now you know that I know. Robin Axline: Yeah, totally. was like, it's definitely a vibe. So it was funny because like the people who knew that the songs in the album, it's like, if you know, you know, kind of thing. So I was like laughing when I saw that Madeline costume. But since all this. stuff is becoming unsurfaced, people are looking around on YouTube to find clues. Like I was reading, because I had watched their architectural digest tour back when it was new and now people are watching it really closely and looking out for clues, like how they behave with each other and it's getting crazy. So there's a lot of Tita Lors: Yeah, I mean, when you're doing it that way, though, it just ends up being confirmation bias bias bias. Yeah. Yeah, right. Like this is what I think. And here's the things that I want to use to confirm my bias. It's not actually. Necessarily proof of anything, you're just kind of reading into it what you want to read into it. Robin Axline: Yeah, yeah, yeah. ⁓ right. Yes. Mm-hmm. That's true. Boom. Yeah. Nailed it. So let's see. The... ⁓ this is the other funny thing is I've never seen her perform singing wise, but the last time I was in London, I got tickets to a play that she was in. Because apparently she did so well in that first play that she got cast in a revival of the... It's called The Pillow Man. ⁓ Tita Lors: you Robin Axline: It was like the first time it's been revived, I think. But it was really fabulous and I thought she did a really good job playing the character. mean, she really like commanded the stage and ⁓ very like controlled performance. So she really does have some acting chops, which I was really pleasantly surprised about. Tita Lors: you Robin Axline: But yeah, I do think the reason I couldn't not talk about this is because like literally making an album, Aerie and Your Laundry, like this whole album and then all the little details in the songs, it's not really a breakup album. I feel like it's just like a petty kind of album in a way. Yeah, so I feel like it's like not an accidental oversharing. It's like pretty purposeful, petty behavior. And it's yeah, it's quite revealing in my opinion, but. Tita Lors: Hahaha Robin Axline: Let's see. Basically another thing that's come out is that they are different levels of fame at this point and she's more renowned because she had that big career in the aughts and part of the problem with their marriage is that he was resentful of that. That she was more famous than he was and he couldn't take it. Tita Lors: Most guys can't take it. Yeah. Yeah, I think it takes like a very specific kind of man, especially to take a backseat to their to to their partner right now, even I don't even want to say just a woman in their life, because it's just a very specific man, I think. Robin Axline: Yup, pretty, pretty common. Tita Lors: to be able to be like, yes, please shine and to really like uplift them and put them up. Have you seen all the stuff with like Shakira and her new boo? Yeah. Robin Axline: No, I haven't. Okay. ⁓ and past. Dang. Wow, she found a rare one. Tita Lors: I know, right? Yeah. Robin Axline: Yeah, it's that imbalance. Some people just can't handle it. And it sounds like he's really intentional about it too. That's awesome. Tita Lors: you Yeah, right? I mean, you gotta love a person like that. Yeah. ⁓ Robin Axline: I'll look him up. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. You got to find that person. Tita Lors: Yeah, somebody who celebrates your wins as much, right? Like, matter woman, I think it's really hard for anybody to put aside their own ego all the time whenever their partner is succeed, especially if your partner is succeeding more than you. And if your partner, yeah, right? It's hard to be able to be in a relationship with that person when you're in the midst of your struggle and you're in the midst of your like climb to success or whatever it is that you're trying to do for yourself to uplift yourself or whatever it is, right? Robin Axline: Big time. I mean even in, the, you know, it's been happening for ages, know, women in, I don't know, business or something. Business women. Tita Lors: Hmm. Yeah, or just any in any really like for women in general, right? I think it's Whatever. I don't know. exactly Exactly, like anytime a woman is in like a position of power It's really difficult for men especially to to be okay with that for some reason that I'm sure we all know about but like Robin Axline: Well, we could do a whole thing about that. Yeah, yeah, for some reason, I don't know what... No. Well, stay tuned, everybody. We're going to have an episode on this coming to you real soon. Maybe. Yeah, it's going to be all about the patriarchy and how she's not taking it anymore. Tita Lors: Yeah, hmmm. Yeah, we'll talk about the patriarchy. You Exactly. Well, there is like actually a movement for like the matriarchy. I saw it briefly somewhere, right? Where it's like where the patriarchy focuses on this and these points, the matriarchy focuses on this. And that's why it would be a lot more beneficial to shift into a matriarchy ⁓ style of society than a patriarchy. I'll look it up. We'll talk about it. Robin Axline: Hmm. Yeah, I'm very, very curious. ⁓ yeah, so I basically just wanted to talk about, ⁓ to like, with Lily Ellen doing these visual cues and referencing like this woman who might be the border person who knows repeatedly in songs and the receipt dress of it all, the, Madeline costume. It's like, really to me, it reads somebody that wants people to connect the dots. like Yeah, yeah, exactly. And. I just, I guess I'm gonna land here for now because I just, there's still some deets I need to expand upon in part two. But I guess I just was thinking, yeah, with part two, I just wanna go into maybe some more specifics, some more of the lyrics, et cetera, et cetera. It's like a. Tita Lors: Okay good, that's what I was waiting for. was like, where did me, where's the petty? Robin Axline: Yeah, yeah. But I just needed to set, I felt like I needed to set this up. But I did have some questions that maybe you could help me with that came to mind afterwards. We kind of already talked about the one, how do ⁓ differences in fame success affect relationship dynamics? Check the box on that one. Tita Lors: set the scene. Yeah. Okay. Gay. Robin Axline: how could someone tell if they're agreeing to something that they don't actually want? Tita Lors: to that information, right? And that's why sometimes we'll be like, ⁓ had, just, knew, I don't know, something about that just felt icky or I knew better. Something was telling me, but I did it anyways, or whatever. There's like something felt wrong about that, but then I went down the dark alley anyways, you know? Like, we have a sense, especially women, I think because we're always so hyper attuned. We have been from childhood, from birth, probably we have been so programmed to always be aware of our surroundings and to keep your head on a swivel because everything wants to kill you and everyone wants to kill you. So right, you just have to be so attuned and we're taking all that information in. And when we get those goosebumps or that like ickiness in our tummy or we're sweating for no reason, that's your body telling you something, right? Or when you're starting to feel anxious about a decision, your body's telling you something and it doesn't necessarily mean no, don't do it. it does mean like pause, pay attention to this, because something about this doesn't feel right. And right, like if maybe it's a yes, but there has to be under these specific conditions. It's a yes, but I really just need to understand this further. Or, or it's like, actually, no, I'm just saying yes, because because I'm scared or because I'm worried or, know, when we right, a lot of the things that ⁓ kept coming up in our conversations was the idea of like, if it's not a fuck it's a fuck no. Right, like this is something that we talked about a lot. ⁓ Robin Axline: Right. Tita Lors: And it made, think that because we kept having these conversations, ⁓ that it made it easier to really feel comfortable in our relationship together and in like how we were getting to know each other. ⁓ And because we were all on the same page and we all like, right? That was it, yeah. Robin Axline: Yeah, of course. I mean, that's so important. Tita Lors: Exactly. And so if there's something in your body that isn't a hundred percent agreeing with it, then that's a time to really pause and be like, okay, why am I saying yes? Is it because I wholeheartedly want to do this or is it because you want me to or society wants me to or I'm supposed to or like really why are you saying yes? Robin Axline: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, all of those things. And it's just that we move so fast. And we think, oh, we have to have an answer right now, so better just do it or whatever. Jeez, yeah, I think everybody probably has a little bit of that struggle. Like you were saying, it's kind of baked into, well, women especially, unfortunately. Yeah. Tita Lors: Yeah, I think also for like speaking for the neurodivergent community, right? Like because you're so like hyper focused on what's the right way to exist in this social situation. Right. And like I'm just trying to exist the right way in this context that you just kind of for me, I don't want to be for other people, but for me, at least. I kind just panic sometimes and I'm like, ⁓ I have to talk right away. I have to say it right away. I'm not allowed to pause. I like the right thing to do is to give an answer immediately because that's what the other person is expecting of me. But I'm not honoring myself in that I'm prioritizing other people's expectations and what other people want versus honoring the space that I need to think and to take a moment to really understand what the person is saying. saying, because sometimes for me it takes a minute. Like I see you, I see your lips moving, I hear what you're saying, but it's not actually getting processed in my brain, so it takes me a minute to be like... Okay, yes, here's probably why there's a lot of gaps and a lot of like me over talking over you, because it takes a minute for my brain to work. Robin Axline: Yeah. No, I can totally relate to that. I'm very similar in that way where I have to kind of like, everything's going so fast and then like somebody says something and I just have to like, wait, ⁓ okay, this. I totally know what you're talking about. I'm very similar that way. Not even joking. Tita Lors: Mm-hmm. Yeah. What about for you? Like, how do you know? Robin Axline: Well, I was actually going to mention I do struggle with that sometimes. Just the slowing down and taking the beat can be such a... it shouldn't be that so hard. But sometimes I second guess. Like, I'm like, my heart is beating a little bit faster or... I'm starting to get a headache or my stomach doesn't feel well, all those things. And I kind of second guess it. I'm like, no, I'm just reading into it. I'm fine. Or, ⁓ I'm getting, I'm getting way more aware of those things though. ⁓ and it's really just a muscle that you have to keep, keep on. So yeah, practicing. So I do, I feel like I've gotten a lot better at listening, but I still have a ways to go. Mm-hmm. Tita Lors: What do mean? not, you're not being the way that I know you to be. This is not who I know you to be. Why are you being this way? Why are you being so confrontational? Why are you being so, ⁓ what's the word? Not problematic, but like, ⁓ Robin Axline: Not extra, but. Tita Lors: not extra. Gosh, I don't know what the word is, right? But like, why so disagreeable? Right. And, and they're going to label you, they're going to tell you that you are being a specific way you're being a bitch, you're being this you're being whatever, but really, you're not. I think people really need to hold that in their brain. You're not. You are taking up space, which you are allowed to do. You are trusting Robin Axline: Yeah. Tita Lors: in yourself and your system, in your body, and really trying to listen to it so that you know what you want. These people, either by accident or on purpose, have grown accustomed to pushing your boundaries and knowing that you will not maintain them, that your boundaries are flexible. Don't let them push you. And if they call you a bitch, own that shit. Yeah, I'm being a bitch, and I'm allowed to be. I'm allowed to think this through. And it's really scary. And I hear you. And it takes some time. Start slow. Start small. Say no in little ways. Or if it helps, say yes. Right? Because a yes to me is a no to other people sometimes. If I say yes to taking up space for me, yes to slowing down for me, yes to I'm allowed to think about this for a moment. thin, it's a no for other people because they wanted the answer now. But it doesn't matter because it's a yes for me and respecting me and my boundaries. So start slow, start small. If somebody is like, Hey, I'd really like some ice cream. What do you think? And you don't actually want ice cream. It's okay to say no. Robin Axline: I that. Man, that is so helpful to reframe it that way. It's a yes to me. I really dig that. Tita Lors: Yeah, I, it's hard to say no sometimes. Robin Axline: Boy is it ever. But you know, like, another thing I was thinking is what's kind of awesome is when people call you a bitch or you're not doing what they want. They're actually kind of doing you a favor in a way because they're filtering themselves for you. Because if you're seeing that, then it's like, ⁓ that's a red flag. This person, like, didn't really care about my opinion. Tita Lors: Mm. Yeah. Robin Axline: in the first place. That's something that just popped in my head as you were speaking. Tita Lors: Yeah, yeah. And especially in like dating. ⁓ my gosh, this is so good way to know whether or not this person is for you is to set a small boundary and to say no and see how somebody reacts to your no. ⁓ But yeah, because you don't want to wait until you're like in a compromised position or in bed or whatever and you're trying to say no and nobody's respecting you and those that you'd never want to do that. You know, it wouldn't be great. It would not be safe. So in like the first couple of ⁓ dates when you meet somebody, test how they respond to you saying no. And if they respect it, right? Like even something as small as, do you want to go to this coffee shop? and being like, ⁓ actually I, I like my favorite coffee shop is this one. What do you think going there instead? Right? You're saying no in that sentence. And if they push you or if they like, don't listen to you or if they don't try to come up with some kind of like collaboration, then store that, keep that in your memory bank. Robin Axline: Mm, that's really good advice. I like that a lot. Breathe. Tita Lors: Yeah, from somebody who did not practice what they preached. Now I know better, but like, ⁓ man, those 20s, that was a wild ride. Robin Axline: Hey, now you know. All right. ⁓ yeah, think, well, yeah, that's what the 20s are for, they say, I guess. Yeah, don't do it, we did. Tita Lors: They say, yes, but no. Learn from the lores. Don't do that. Or do. Sometimes it's a good learning experience, but you knew going into it what you were doing, maybe, hopefully, and that experience will cement it for you. Like, okay, yeah, she said that. I didn't listen, but like, now I know why she said that. Robin Axline: through that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, totally. ⁓ man, that was, was, free and answer to my question. I have like so many questions. I'm just gonna like whittle it down to one more for now. Because like... Tita Lors: Okay, okay. ⁓ Save the other one for next week. Robin Axline: Yeah, I could. Yeah, or I might have more questions. We'll see. I'm just a quiz master over here. Hard-hitting questions. All right, I'm gonna do this last one. Is using a relationship as creative material healthy or can it prevent real processing? Tita Lors: Yeah, hard hitting questions. I don't know how other people would answer, but I have in my therapy rooms, encourage storytelling. ⁓ I think that it's really great to listen and hear the way you're telling the story. And it's a really important part of the process because a lot of, a lot of the time in the way you tell a story, we can catch like some kind of. Robin Axline: Mm. Tita Lors: not flaw, like a cognitive distortion is what it's called in cognitive behavioral therapy. like, right, so like a falsehood in the way that you're thinking about something. ⁓ And so I encourage a lot of storytelling, you know, tell me that story. What's here's the story that I'm hearing in what you're telling me. ⁓ And I and I have encouraged people to write, write the story. I've done narrative work with people. Here's the story. We type it out. They say it, I type it, Robin Axline: ⁓ yeah. Tita Lors: We read it over and over again. We talk about the feelings in it. Or we do like imaginative work or you you walk me through the memory of that or tell me what that person in internal family systems, which we've talked about that I'm in love with and part of the cult, but like what that that part of you, right? What is it experiencing and all of that stuff? So I think the storytelling is really, really great. But then what will you do with it? I think is the part that that is important because if you're just doing it but you're not reflecting and you're not learning from it or seeing, I don't know what I'm trying to say, right? But... there's a difference between that, between the spitefulness of it and the intention to harm or hurt someone versus this is my story. This is what happened to me. This is my experience and I'm writing about it and it's a good story. And so, you know, it's coming out. Sorry, whether you like it or not, you know. Yeah, but it was never my intention to hurt you, although you might. ⁓ Robin Axline: Yeah. Tita Lors: get her in the process. right, but again, back to one of my other stories, if the shoe fits. Robin Axline: Yes. I love that story. ⁓ man. But yeah. Yeah, that's ⁓ yeah true. That's a really good way to put it. So you think processing it by writing it out or saying it is helpful instead of yeah I could see that. Tita Lors: that person and what a jerk they are and all of that stuff. And there's no, you're focused externally on that person and you're not focused internally on yourself and your growth and your healing. Just how do I hurt that person and how do I make them feel the pain that I feel versus like I. I don't want to feel I would like for this to just be fully expressed and like, and that isn't to say it's not okay to vent like I fully support a good venting session. ⁓ But that can't be the only thing. Robin Axline: Yeah, yeah, Mm-hmm, totally. Yeah, another great answer. So basically, ⁓ that's, mean, she, the thing I was going to mention is like, she's processing it and using it as content in front of the entire world. ⁓ Tita Lors: you You Robin Axline: Which I, maybe that's cathartic for her. Or maybe she just wanted to be petty and be like, look what you did to me and everybody knows now. Yeah. Right. ⁓ Tita Lors: Yes. Boom. Yeah. or both, right? She's like, because the whole writing process, I'm sure you know, right? It's a long process to create an album. takes months, years, sometimes even to bring something like this to fruition. So she probably spent a lot of time really processing and going over her feelings and, and do, and that these were probably not the initial drafts. This is like, what she called and decided, okay, this is what's okay to share. This is the part of my story that is okay to share. she was, you know, if she was being petty about how she chose that good for her. Robin Axline: Yeah, I mean some of it does come off a bit cheeky, so yeah. But ⁓ yeah. I feel like we've just touched the tip of the iceberg on this story, but, and I hope it made sense. I just wanted to just lay it out. So with that being said, stay tuned for part two. Tita Lors: Yeah. Robin Axline: And that just about wraps it up for this episode. Tita Lors: Yeah, any like call to actions or? Robin Axline: if like this ⁓ rings bell for you and ⁓ you've ⁓ some of betrayal ⁓ and responded to it on a more on the petty scale, please we want to know about that too. Tita Lors: ⁓ my gosh, yes, please. I want to know. Robin Axline: Yeah. We want to know all the details. So you can write us. No, go ahead. Tita Lors: No, it's the delay. Robin Axline: I know. We're experiencing a delay, So it sounds a bit choppy. Sorry. Tita Lors: Yeah. Okay, yeah, go. I know, it's so frustrating. was trying to... Yeah, that's what I was trying to do, I was trying to fix it and then I made it worse on my side. Robin Axline: all good. So tell us everything. We want to know if this rings true to y'all out there and we want to know your stories and we want to know your opinion on... you can even give us an album review if if you so choose. Do some homework. We want to know. That's a great idea. Tita Lors: Ooh, what's the pettiest album you've ever heard? Robin Axline: You have any more? I'm, I'm, uh, I think that's all I need to know, dear audience, for now. Tita Lors: Yeah, yeah, for now. Yeah. So is this a until next time situation? Robin Axline: Until next time. Tita Lors: Fuck it. Robin Axline: Stay petty. Tita Lors: This delay! Robin Axline: Bye! Tita Lors: Bye! ⁓