Latest / Flyer Magazine / Can we keep flying affordable? The Flyer Show October 16 2025

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Can we keep flying affordable? The Flyer Show October 16 2025 · Flyer Magazine

0:07
SPEAKER_03: The beautiful blue sky of Italy.
0:10
SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the Flyer Show.
0:12
SPEAKER_07: Hello and welcome to the Flyer Show from the studio in Wadswick where the wall is progressing slowly.
0:17
SPEAKER_07: We're still looking for a few more bits and pieces.
0:20
SPEAKER_07: My name's Ian Seeger.
0:21
SPEAKER_07: I'm EdHex.
0:22
SPEAKER_07: I'm Dave Corderwood.
0:23
SPEAKER_07: Today we'll be talking to Owen Jones, who's the new CEO of the BMAA.
0:28
SPEAKER_07: Plus there's news of.
0:29
SPEAKER_07: What's the news of?
0:30
SPEAKER_06: There's uh there's an award for a friend of flyer.
0:33
SPEAKER_07: Excellent, that's always good.
0:34
SPEAKER_07: There's a new airfield.
0:36
SPEAKER_04: A new airfield with an iconic British name.
0:38
SPEAKER_07: Blimey.
0:39
SPEAKER_07: I've got news of some CAA seminar webinar and things.
0:43
SPEAKER_04: And uh one of our big airline training academies has ordered five diesel lipers.
0:49
SPEAKER_07: Wow.
0:50
SPEAKER_07: Twins.
0:51
SPEAKER_07: First of all, however, a big, big thanks to Sky Demon.
0:54
SPEAKER_07: Thank you very much, Sky Demon, for supporting the live stream.
0:57
SPEAKER_07: Here is your top tip.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Hannah from Sky Demon, and this is this week's Top Tip.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: In your logs library, you'll find the option to view a summary of all of your logs under the view or flight times button.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: Choose the date range and the timings you want to include in your summary.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: For example, you can show blocks times and engine times in addition to your take-off and landing times if they've been logged.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: A summary will then be generated showing all of the logs within that period that you've saved in your cloud so that you can easily copy the timings into your paper logbook.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: You can even email yourself a copy or print it out.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: For more information, go to our website skydemon.ero.
1:56
SPEAKER_06: Well, I my mind is blown because I've been updating my logbook in completely the wrong way.
2:01
SPEAKER_06: Um when you watch something and you go, Where has that been all my life?
2:07
SPEAKER_07: I know.
2:08
SPEAKER_07: So I remember when I was first learning to fly, I really look forward to that extra line in the logbook.
2:12
SPEAKER_07: And like when you completed didn't crash.
2:17
SPEAKER_07: No, when you'd like, I can put another entry in my logbook, and it seemed to take forever to fill a page because you'd have lessons so infrequently and the weather was rubbish and stuff like that.
2:25
SPEAKER_07: And now I'm sad to say that it kind of about two or three times a year, I have to complete my logbook, which always involves dredging up bits of paper and other bits of electronics and pieces.
2:35
SPEAKER_06: I can clearly see I've been doing it wrong.
2:37
SPEAKER_06: And actually, Hannah has shown me the way.
2:42
SPEAKER_06: Talking of showing the way, um, shall we see uh what way Simon says the weather's gonna go?
2:48
SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
2:49
SPEAKER_01: Evening everyone, hope you're well this evening and getting ready for flying this weekend.
2:55
SPEAKER_01: Got to make the most of it over the next couple of days.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: Things are gonna be turning more unsettled as we go to the weekend.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: So uh get ready for that.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: This is the forecast for tomorrow morning.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: Now I'm gonna be using the um icon model again because it gives us a better idea as to what's going on.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: The times here are in the top right hand corner.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: So for tomorrow morning, we've got a weak front that's through northeastern parts of Scotland, just bringing some bits of sherry rain here.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh, one or two bits of sherry rain lying through the channel as well.
3:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, elsewhere, I think we're gonna be seeing some fog patches across parts of Wales, across parts of northern England, and into parts of Scotland.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: Now they should lift during the course of the morning, and then I think what we're gonna be finding is broken clouds through the day, still fairly misty and murky across many central, northern and eastern areas.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: And you can see there one or two spots of rain just getting onto those eastern coasts.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: Winds picking up in the far west, ice bars closer together there, as you can see, but generally cloud is fairly well broken, two, three thousand-foot bases, topped of around about six, seven thousand feet, and more areas are likely to see breaks in that cloud.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: So it kind of is possible for flying on Friday.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: I think quite local flying though, just keep an eye on uh the gamut and on uh form 215 and the Tafts because I think there will there be some local variations.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: Now, as we go through in towards Saturday, so we find what we find the winds increasing across western areas and also cloud increasing in the west during the course of the morning.
4:29
SPEAKER_01: Look at the rain there coming into Ireland, it's knocking on the door of western Scotland, western Wales, and southwest England by the time we get through to midday on Saturday, and then during the afternoon it just slips its way eastwards so that by the end of the afternoon it's into western Scotland, it's knocking into western parts of Wales and into South West England.
4:51
SPEAKER_01: So non-verse most western areas during the course of Saturday afternoon.
4:56
SPEAKER_01: Elsewhere, actually, it's not bad.
4:58
SPEAKER_01: Base is around three to four thousand feet, tops about eight to ten thousand feet, and maybe a little hazy again, and the breeze is picking up, but it's not too bad.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: However, all change as we get through in towards Sunday.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: Low pressure moving through Ireland.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: There is that rain look moving north and east through the country during the course of the day, becoming quite windy as well.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: It may well be that parts of Wales and southwest England clear to heavy showers through the course of the afternoon.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: Maybe that it turns brighter into the Midlands as well, but a swath of rain moving through during Sunday.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: A lot of uncertainty over the timing of that rain.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: Things may yet change.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: So, again, it's a case really of keeping a very careful eye on the forecast going into the weekend.
5:43
SPEAKER_01: And being able to spot these occasions when there is that uncertainty in timing is one of the things that I look at at Aviation Weather School.
5:51
SPEAKER_01: And I have a single place remaining on my classroom-based course, which is going to be held on Saturday the 15th of November between 10am and 4 pm here at Weather School HQ.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: Come along, we'll have a great day together as you'll learn how to spot weather windows five days in advance, how to make the most of forecasts that you get from official sources, and I will build your confidence in weather and understanding forecasts and making you making them yourself so you can go away and be more confident that you'll be flying more and flying more safely.
6:24
SPEAKER_01: To book your place on the course, just use the QR code or go to weatherschool.co.uk.
6:30
SPEAKER_01: That place is waiting for you.
6:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh your course cost includes all refreshments, your lunch, everything that you could possibly need.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I will leave you with that for now.
6:40
SPEAKER_01: Have a great and a safe flying weekend, and I'll see you next week.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: Bye for now.
6:45
SPEAKER_07: Before we go on, I should probably explain this.
6:48
SPEAKER_07: I stupidly fell off my mountain bike.
6:50
SPEAKER_07: I wasn't going very fast, but it was frankly, it was pathetic.
6:54
SPEAKER_07: It was just a bit of a wobble, off I came, and then there was this kind of crack, and I thought, that didn't sound good.
6:59
SPEAKER_07: I persuaded myself it was a bit of a stone and thought I'd just sprain my ankle, but clearly I haven't, and I've broken the fibula.
7:06
SPEAKER_07: And for anyone who understands these things more than I do, apparently it's uh I got told today it's a Weber B stroke C type fracture, whatever that means.
7:14
SPEAKER_07: I've got no idea.
7:15
SPEAKER_07: I don't know, but all I understand Sounds like a barbecue to me.
7:18
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I only understand fractures in the in terms of spars and bolts and things like that.
7:23
SPEAKER_06: So Yeah.
7:24
SPEAKER_07: I don't know.
7:24
SPEAKER_07: Maybe maybe maybe Henry, when he does the edit, will flush up a little x-ray.
7:28
SPEAKER_07: Who knows?
7:28
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, that'd be good.
7:29
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
7:30
SPEAKER_07: Limey.
7:31
SPEAKER_07: But anyway, that's what that's all about.
7:32
SPEAKER_07: Um shall we check out what's in the news?
7:34
SPEAKER_07: Let's do the news, shall we?
7:36
SPEAKER_06: Okay, who's first?
7:37
SPEAKER_06: You are.
7:37
SPEAKER_06: Am I?
7:38
SPEAKER_06: Oh.
7:38
SPEAKER_06: Well, in that case, it's really good news because friend of Flyer, Mark Greeners Greenfield, um, who's the founder and boss of Ultimate High, uh and obviously occasional contributor to Flyer, he's been awarded the Cumberbatch Trophy by the Honourable Company of Air Pilots.
7:55
SPEAKER_06: Uh, and that award is for outstanding contribution to aviation safety.
8:00
SPEAKER_06: Uh, Greeners was recognized as a masterful instructor in upset prevention and recovery training.
8:06
SPEAKER_06: That's UPRT, to you and me.
8:08
SPEAKER_06: Uh HCAP cited that Greener's reputation is not only built on technical knowledge, uh, but also his outstanding ability to teach and his instinctive understanding of how people learn under pressure.
8:20
SPEAKER_06: Uh and all of us here have flown with Mark.
8:22
SPEAKER_06: He is brilliant.
8:23
SPEAKER_06: Um, and we're not just saying that because, you know, it's Greener's.
8:26
SPEAKER_06: But uh and we've all witnessed him teaching people like um Guy Martin on telly.
8:31
SPEAKER_06: Uh, and it's fair to say there's few people who do it better.
8:34
SPEAKER_07: That's very true.
8:34
SPEAKER_07: Very true.
8:35
SPEAKER_06: I know he sat there going, what do you mean there's people who do it better?
8:39
SPEAKER_07: Um I'd never heard of the Cumberbatch trophy before.
8:43
SPEAKER_06: I had, only because I'd read of the awards.
8:46
SPEAKER_07: I'd been surprised if you hadn't heard of something in ABS.
8:49
SPEAKER_07: Something, yes.
8:50
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
8:50
SPEAKER_06: But no, that is that that's you know, well done, Greeners.
8:53
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
8:54
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
8:54
SPEAKER_06: That's very well deserved.
8:55
SPEAKER_06: And um, yeah, no, Greeners does a fantastic job.
8:58
SPEAKER_07: I wonder if he does mountain bike training.
9:00
SPEAKER_06: He'd been shaking his head in desperation to see if he did.
9:04
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it would be.
9:04
SPEAKER_06: It would be.
9:05
SPEAKER_06: What's next then?
9:06
SPEAKER_04: Well, there's a new airfield, and it's going to have the name of an iconic British manufacturer.
9:11
SPEAKER_04: Is it Miles?
9:12
SPEAKER_04: No, no, it's De Havland Field.
9:14
SPEAKER_04: Whereabouts in the UK, is it?
9:16
SPEAKER_04: Unfortunately, it's not in the UK, it's in Canada.
9:19
SPEAKER_04: Oh.
9:19
SPEAKER_04: Uh that um De Havilland aircraft is consolidating its various operations, uh, basically at a new airfield it's building just outside uh Calgary in Canada.
9:29
SPEAKER_04: Construction starts next spring once Canada is sought out after the winter.
9:33
SPEAKER_04: Right.
9:34
SPEAKER_04: Um De Havland will build three aircraft there.
9:37
SPEAKER_04: The DHC 515 firefighter, that's the water bomber one.
9:41
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
9:42
SPEAKER_04: The uh twin otter, D86 Twin Otter, which is still uh in demand.
9:47
SPEAKER_07: If you've got one of those stats on my bucket list, can I have a go, please?
9:50
SPEAKER_04: There's a new version of the twin otter out, actually.
9:52
SPEAKER_04: The classic 300G, which they launched at the Paris Air Show last summer.
9:56
SPEAKER_04: The third aircraft it's going to build there is the Dash 8.
9:59
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
9:59
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
10:00
SPEAKER_07: That's probably the bread and butter, I'd have thought.
10:02
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, probably.
10:02
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
10:03
SPEAKER_04: It's obviously having to work with not only local government but national government.
10:07
SPEAKER_04: And everyone's very enthusiastic about it.
10:09
SPEAKER_04: I bet.
10:09
SPEAKER_04: I think there's plenty of land in Canada, so they're not pushed to find a find a patch.
10:14
SPEAKER_06: But it's still cool to hear of people making new airfields.
10:17
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and they're going to employ 1,500 people there.
10:19
SPEAKER_04: So it's a big operation.
10:22
SPEAKER_07: Excellent.
10:22
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
10:23
SPEAKER_07: Good news.
10:24
SPEAKER_07: Very good news.
10:25
SPEAKER_07: I want to go over Twin Alter if you go on.
10:26
SPEAKER_07: Um, so I guess it's me next.
10:29
SPEAKER_07: It is.
10:30
SPEAKER_07: Yes.
10:30
SPEAKER_07: Um, so on the 1st of October, not l not that long ago, the CA rules changed around licensing and a couple of other bits and pieces.
10:37
SPEAKER_07: Yep.
10:38
SPEAKER_07: Um do you think that you this is not really a quiz this time, but do you think you're you understand them all, you know them all?
10:43
SPEAKER_07: This is part of the simplification process.
10:45
SPEAKER_07: There was.
10:46
SPEAKER_07: Class one, as it were.
10:47
SPEAKER_06: To be fair, the CIA did produce quite a good simplified guide.
10:51
SPEAKER_06: They did.
10:52
SPEAKER_07: They did.
10:52
SPEAKER_07: We did a video on it.
10:53
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
10:53
SPEAKER_07: They've done some videos on it.
10:55
SPEAKER_07: And as if that's not enough, they've got a series of webinars coming up.
10:58
SPEAKER_07: So if you are interested in aeroplanes or microlites, Thursday the 16th of October is your day.
11:03
SPEAKER_07: If you're more of a helicopters and rotorcraft person, then you'll be looking for Wednesday the 22nd of October.
11:09
SPEAKER_07: And if you're into sailplanes, in cooperation with the BGA, you're looking for Wednesday, 29th of October.
11:15
SPEAKER_07: Now, these are all free, obviously.
11:16
SPEAKER_07: The CA, not even the CA have got enough cheek to charge for that.
11:19
SPEAKER_07: Um, then you just need to register for the webinar.
11:22
SPEAKER_07: So I won't read out the URL because it's long and boring.
11:25
SPEAKER_07: But if you go to the Flyer website and just look at the news story around CA webinars, there's links all the way there, and I'm sure the CA have got it on their website too.
11:32
SPEAKER_07: So uh no excuse.
11:34
SPEAKER_07: Go along, learn some stuff, and it'll be simple, I'm sure, while the CA work on Tranche 2 ready for next year, hopefully.
11:40
SPEAKER_07: Fingers crossed.
11:41
SPEAKER_06: Do we know what's coming in tranche 2?
11:46
SPEAKER_07: I think at this point in time it would be more sort of speculation and other things, but I think there are some good things in there generally.
11:52
SPEAKER_07: Uh I think we've seen from the CA's GA strategy that they produced in the vacuum that the DFT left.
11:58
SPEAKER_07: Um there's some good stuff in there as well.
12:01
SPEAKER_07: And the CA kind of looking to get rid of some stuff and sorry, to delegate stuff.
12:07
SPEAKER_07: Delegate.
12:07
SPEAKER_07: And I think you know, personally, the cynic in me says that's not so much of a philosophical wish to delegate.
12:13
SPEAKER_07: It's more like this is going to cost us less money if we get someone else to do it.
12:16
SPEAKER_07: Or we don't have enough staff, or we don't have enough staff or money to employ any others.
12:20
SPEAKER_07: But still, delegation.
12:21
SPEAKER_07: But we'll take it, we'll take it.
12:22
SPEAKER_07: Whatever the motivation is, we'll take it.
12:24
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
12:24
SPEAKER_07: Um, and I think no, I think there's some good stuff coming along.
12:27
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, okay, great.
12:28
SPEAKER_07: Look forward to that.
12:28
SPEAKER_07: Dave, have you got some trainer news?
12:31
SPEAKER_04: So, Skyborne Airline Academy has ordered five Piper Seminole DX aircraft.
12:37
SPEAKER_04: This is the uh aircraft that's powered by two uh 180 horsepower Delta Hawk engines.
12:42
SPEAKER_04: This is the V4 diesel engine.
12:44
SPEAKER_04: Um and uh they're gonna be delivered probably at the end of 2026 or 27 uh after it gets its type certification.
12:52
SPEAKER_04: Um Piper says the Seminole DX will offer a 35% reduction in fuel burn, which on a twin is quite a lot of fuel.
13:00
SPEAKER_04: They'd also offer a 32% increase in single engine climb rate, which is important for a twin, you know, that uh kind of limits the performance, and a 70% higher single engine absolute ceiling.
13:12
SPEAKER_04: It's a bit of a first for Skyborne to operate the Piper twin because they've although they've got 11 Piper singles at their US base, mostly they've been operating diamond aircraft at their UK base at Gloucestershire Airport.
13:26
SPEAKER_04: So um it'd be interesting to see how it goes.
13:28
SPEAKER_04: I'm guessing that uh probably Delta Hawk want to keep the first batch of these aircraft within the States because let the engine proof.
13:37
SPEAKER_06: And this was uh this was the the collaboration Delta Hawk and Piper was announced at Oshkosh this year, wasn't it?
13:43
SPEAKER_04: That's right.
13:44
SPEAKER_04: It caught everyone by surprise really because there'd been no no word of it really.
13:48
SPEAKER_06: Well, not that I the a a diesel seminole had been on the card off and on.
13:54
SPEAKER_06: Centurion, wasn't it?
13:55
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, centurion for for a few years.
13:57
SPEAKER_06: I mean, there was one one aero Friedrichshaven where all of a sudden this was going to happen and then it it just vanished.
14:04
SPEAKER_07: I mean I think for a while the seminole was kind of like the airplane that schools were buying for multi-engine training.
14:09
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
14:09
SPEAKER_07: Um and then along came Diamond and DA42, um, and to a to a slightly lesser extent the P2006 twin from TechNam.
14:16
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
14:16
SPEAKER_07: And it kind of ate ate their brunch.
14:19
SPEAKER_07: Yes.
14:20
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, so they're they're aiming to take some of that back.
14:23
SPEAKER_07: But uh Oshkos, they had a they didn't have an airplane, did they?
14:26
SPEAKER_06: They had a wing with a with an engine on.
14:28
SPEAKER_06: And I you did you say hoping to deliver end of twenty twenty six?
14:32
SPEAKER_04: Well they're hoping to get uh uh FAA type certification uh it towards the end of twenty twenty-six.
14:39
SPEAKER_06: Which seems seems possible because the engine is certified, isn't it?
14:42
SPEAKER_06: And the airframe is.
14:43
SPEAKER_06: And the airframe, so it just needs the.
14:45
SPEAKER_07: I mean, and Piper know what they're doing when it comes to certification.
14:47
SPEAKER_07: So they're not you know, they've it's not their first radio, as they say, in America.
14:51
SPEAKER_07: No.
14:51
SPEAKER_07: Um see how that develops.
14:54
SPEAKER_04: Of course.
14:54
SPEAKER_04: An American aircraft with an American engine fits in very much with uh bought by a British company.
14:59
SPEAKER_07: That's the first customer.
15:01
SPEAKER_04: But to be kept in America.
15:02
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
15:03
SPEAKER_07: Um yeah, because Skyborne bought what was uh flight safety at Vero Beach.
15:07
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, that's right.
15:08
SPEAKER_07: So they have they have a US base.
15:09
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
15:09
SPEAKER_04: That's a bit pipers base as well.
15:11
SPEAKER_07: It funnily enough it is, isn't it?
15:13
SPEAKER_07: Short delivery flight.
15:14
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah.
15:15
SPEAKER_07: Short taxi.
15:16
SPEAKER_07: Just push it across the ramp.
15:18
SPEAKER_07: It's ready, come and collect it.
15:20
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well, it's the end of the news.
15:22
SPEAKER_04: Shall we talk to our guest?
15:24
SPEAKER_07: Absolutely.
15:27
SPEAKER_04: Welcome to Owen Johns, new boss of the uh BMAA, the British Microlite Aircraft Association.
15:34
SPEAKER_04: So, Owen, tell us a bit about joining the BMAA and what were you doing before?
15:39
SPEAKER_03: So, what I was doing before, um, I was working in education, the education sector.
15:43
SPEAKER_03: Uh, I did 25, 23 years in secondary schools, uh various leadership roles, and then I've just done five years up until the change of role um in apprenticeships.
15:52
SPEAKER_03: Um so similar skills, similar skills to uh leading an organization.
15:58
SPEAKER_06: Pay attention at the back.
16:00
SPEAKER_03: Well, maybe, maybe.
16:02
SPEAKER_07: What was your apprenticeship in?
16:04
SPEAKER_07: No, any joking, any joking.
16:06
SPEAKER_04: So it's about a hundred days since you joined the joined a CEO to the PM.
16:10
SPEAKER_04: Thank you, thank you.
16:11
SPEAKER_04: Um how's that been?
16:13
SPEAKER_03: It's been really, really enjoyable.
16:15
SPEAKER_03: I think there is always the case with a new role where you're learning, you're learning new skills, meeting new people, um, interacting with you know new organizations.
16:24
SPEAKER_03: So there's a little bit of a kind of honeymoon um period in that respect.
16:27
SPEAKER_03: Um but uh we've got a really, really good team at Adderbury, which is the uh the premises for the BMAA where we're based near Banbury.
16:35
SPEAKER_03: Um a really experienced team, it's a real pleasure working with them.
16:38
SPEAKER_03: Um and it's great to also be working for the membership rather than being a member.
16:44
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I'm really really enjoying it.
16:46
SPEAKER_03: It's um still early days, still early days.
16:48
SPEAKER_03: Um and uh it's a pleasure to be here.
16:51
SPEAKER_04: Right.
16:51
SPEAKER_04: Well, um we did meet at the LAA rally and uh we had a quick chat about things.
16:58
SPEAKER_04: You said then it was too early to talk in any detail, but you did say about three priorities you had, the first one being the tech office.
17:05
SPEAKER_03: Yes, so the the the the tech office, I mean, um just practically at Adderbury, we've got uh we've got a relatively small team.
17:11
SPEAKER_03: We've got our our membership and licensing downstairs, and we've got upstairs, we've got our tech office uh team.
17:16
SPEAKER_03: And we've had a couple of challenges this year, in and around um capacity, I think.
17:20
SPEAKER_03: Um and that was my priority back in when was it the LAA rally now?
17:24
SPEAKER_03: End of end of August.
17:25
SPEAKER_03: End of August, end of August on that breezy day on, I think, on a Sunday morning, wasn't it?
17:30
SPEAKER_03: Um and it's really about putting the capacity back into the tech office because we've got a rate uh you know a wealth of experience, um, and we just need to make sure that our members are uh dealt with promptly and issues are resolved quickly.
17:44
SPEAKER_03: And we're very good with our permit renewals, for example, but if they've got minor mods, major mods, uh, and also approvals for manufacturers, we need to do that promptly.
17:52
SPEAKER_03: Um so we've got recruitment, you mentioned it uh two weeks ago, I think.
17:56
SPEAKER_03: That's right.
17:57
SPEAKER_03: Um and we've got a lot of really promising applicants, and we're interviewing next week, actually.
18:01
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, really, really positive.
18:03
SPEAKER_04: Great, great.
18:04
SPEAKER_04: And you also mentioned about the we want to build the membership, which I think anyone in an association wants to do.
18:10
SPEAKER_04: But you really want to sort of try and build a younger membership.
18:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we this year we've had a youth week, um, which we need to tweak a bit.
18:17
SPEAKER_03: Uh we need to make that a little bit more uh across the year so flying schools and um flying clubs can choose when they do their their youth day more of rather than a specific week.
18:27
SPEAKER_03: Um but we also need to appeal to a younger audience.
18:30
SPEAKER_03: Um that's not just about inspiring the youth.
18:33
SPEAKER_03: Uh, for example, I was at REF Sireston, we were at the LEA rally, we're talking about you know big people, but they're not really in the disposable income situation.
18:42
SPEAKER_03: You might inspire them, but they're not going to be buying or or stepping into a micro-life for quite a while.
18:47
SPEAKER_03: So, really, we've got to say to ourselves, as a as an organization, how can we lower um our target audience for BMEA membership?
18:54
SPEAKER_03: How can we get a younger audience?
18:56
SPEAKER_03: Um so that's that's what we're looking at.
18:58
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
18:59
SPEAKER_04: There's been a lot of changes, or there are some recent changes to the PPL licensing, which uh we've talked a couple of news stories on this week about.
19:06
SPEAKER_04: Um it's gonna be quite beneficial for microliting.
19:11
SPEAKER_03: Yes, it is.
19:12
SPEAKER_03: Um, and uh we've been talking to our members.
19:15
SPEAKER_03: We had a webinar only last week about the licensing changes.
19:18
SPEAKER_03: We've got a number of uh pilots, uh myself who've got the original PPL, you know, in the brown envelope and in the brown folder, yeah, kind of grandfather rights and stuff like that.
19:26
SPEAKER_03: How will that change from the um you know the the previous 13-month validity to the 12 and 24, etc.
19:32
SPEAKER_03: etc.?
19:33
SPEAKER_03: I mean, they're the practical details.
19:35
SPEAKER_03: So we've been talking to our members about that.
19:36
SPEAKER_03: But I think the um the alignment and the currency in it around micro-ite hours counting towards other license options is incredibly beneficial.
19:46
SPEAKER_03: And I think that flying schools recognise that.
19:49
SPEAKER_03: Younger people on reduced budgets will also recognise that.
19:52
SPEAKER_03: And that means that if they're on an hours building route and a you know a commercial route, then they can they count now.
19:58
SPEAKER_03: The microlite hours count.
19:59
SPEAKER_03: So I think that will be uh I think it will be a game changer for flying schools, whether it's SEP, micro light schools, uh, and also for the for the micro light fleet as well.
20:07
SPEAKER_06: And we're certainly seeing uh an influx of affordable and very nice quality trainers that are going to elevate the flying training options for people, aren't we?
20:19
SPEAKER_06: And it's particularly in microliting.
20:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think you said the word affordable.
20:22
SPEAKER_03: I I said I spoke earlier, I said more affordable because you know at the LEA rally when we met Dave, you know, there was a you know a wealth of uh rather nice microlites, high-end microlites, um, certainly you know pitching for a certain market.
20:36
SPEAKER_03: But I have had conversations with uh a number of manufacturers, and they're they're recognizing that if they take out or they they they just lower the spec a little bit, they've got some really quite interesting trainers there that will be um a viable alternative to an aging 152 PA28, you know, uh putting fuel in and measuring it in litres and not gallons, those sorts of things.
20:57
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
20:57
SPEAKER_04: But how are you gonna persuade some of these old flying schools to get rid of their you know their 152s and PA28s, which I can slam down and the undercarriage will take it?
21:07
SPEAKER_04: How are you gonna change that?
21:08
SPEAKER_03: Well, firstly, you've got to look at the maths, and I think the bottom line, you know, the XL spreadsheet, your PL will make quite a difference.
21:15
SPEAKER_03: Litres, gallons, first discussion.
21:17
SPEAKER_03: And then secondly, you've got to demonstrate to the flying schools that the the modern microlites are robust uh and they're appropriate for training.
21:24
SPEAKER_03: I do think, I do think it'll be a little bit controversial when I'm I learned to fly in at Shob Dunny.
21:29
SPEAKER_03: I used to see 152s coming around, bang, bang, bang, every time on the stall warning.
21:34
SPEAKER_03: And I think you know, if you you've got to teach with a little bit more finesse, uh and you've got to appreciate that actually we're not just gonna do circuits and bumps, we're gonna actually you know teach the flying skills that are needed.
21:43
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, C 42s, um, you know, they've been in existence for a long time in the micro ice schools, Sky Rangers, for example, and they're and they're they're they're proving longevity and they're proving value for money, and also the feedback from the pilots.
21:56
SPEAKER_03: Dare I say it?
21:57
SPEAKER_03: Dare I say it?
21:58
SPEAKER_03: But if you walk out of the flying school and you say, Would you like to go and jump in that Eurofox or that Pipestrel or that Dynamic?
22:03
SPEAKER_03: Or would you rather go and jump in that 152 or that PA28?
22:08
SPEAKER_03: I don't know that's your favourite aircraft, Ed.
22:12
SPEAKER_03: You know, if you want to go and jump in one of those, it's a bit like saying to somebody with a driver, my my my daughter, you know, just passed a driving test.
22:18
SPEAKER_03: Well, would you like to go and do your, you know, you learn to drive in a Morris minor, or would you like to go and learn in the latest Peugeot or, you know, Toyota or whatever with some emerging technology and Bluetooth and things like that.
22:29
SPEAKER_03: How are we going to appeal to a younger audience?
22:31
SPEAKER_03: Give them something that they can connect with ultimately.
22:34
SPEAKER_03: And, you know, the latest Fleets of Microlights, they do that.
22:37
SPEAKER_03: So I do think we've got a bit of a hearts and minds job because when I've spoken to a number of the, what I would say traditional GA flying schools, they're saying, yeah, but we know, we know what we know, we know our 152, you know, we've painted it, it's still the same broom, etc.
22:50
SPEAKER_03: etc.
22:51
SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think you've got to really look at the bottom line.
22:54
SPEAKER_03: And the bottom line, I was talking to Pete, BGA, and he said the Eurofox as a glider tug has has kept uh at least, you know, five or six gliding clubs, gliding clubs in, you know, operating because they they they couldn't afford to run their chipmunk, they couldn't afford to run their pawnee.
23:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
23:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
23:13
SPEAKER_03: And and and you know, that the the running cost of those aircraft and the Eurofox with a 915, you know, 916 on the front is proving to be uh an able tug.
23:22
SPEAKER_03: Um so if that's keeping gliding schools functioning, gliding clubs functioning, I think the same thing could cascade down to to GA schools as well.
23:30
SPEAKER_03: But it will take time.
23:31
SPEAKER_03: It's a bit of a hearts and minds job.
23:33
SPEAKER_03: And we've got a we are collecting the data.
23:36
SPEAKER_03: We've got a number of manufacturers who were working with us, giving us the stats, and um ultimately you look at a three-year cost model on running costs, I think it'll be compelling.
23:45
SPEAKER_07: The direct operating costs on the on the kind of lighter end, effectively Rotax-powered aircraft are significantly lower than than than they will be if you've got a like AMI or Continental.
23:55
SPEAKER_07: Yeah um and the lighter weight of the Rotax is also a benefit.
23:58
SPEAKER_07: I think when we we saw back in 1994, a long time ago, we started reviewing aircraft with Rotax.
24:04
SPEAKER_07: And I think the the uh what was it called?
24:06
SPEAKER_07: The katana was was probably the first one.
24:09
SPEAKER_07: And the the the GA schools were all like we don't know this, we'd our engineers don't know this, and it's taken a long time.
24:16
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
24:17
SPEAKER_07: General aviation is a pretty conservative place, so it's it's tough to change change minds.
24:22
SPEAKER_07: But I think when you get, you know, it's not only are we all getting older, but the fleets all getting older as well, yeah.
24:27
SPEAKER_07: Uh and getting much more expensive.
24:29
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
24:30
SPEAKER_07: And so I think you know that the the door's ready to be pushed open.
24:33
SPEAKER_03: I think so.
24:33
SPEAKER_03: And we've got we've got microite schools that have run successfully, Eurostar, Sky Rangers, C42, with four or five thousand hours on.
24:39
SPEAKER_03: Um, and and they can demonstrate that that is a much more cost-effective option.
24:43
SPEAKER_03: And that the RoTAX is proved, you know, the 9112 is an absolutely fabulous engine, isn't it?
24:49
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely super power to weight ratio, reliability.
24:51
SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, I've been across the channel this year, no problems at all, with without hesitation.
24:55
SPEAKER_03: I think the days of when I first started flying microlites, some of the early two strokes, you know, 503, 447, you know, you were regularly practicing your PFLs, you know.
25:06
SPEAKER_03: Um, but that that's not the case.
25:08
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you carry on practicing them, but it's rare that you'll have a problem with the 912.
25:12
SPEAKER_03: They're they're fabulous engines.
25:14
unknown: Yeah.
25:14
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I'm with you on that.
25:15
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
25:16
SPEAKER_04: For sure.
25:16
SPEAKER_04: Well, let's launch into our main subject then.
25:19
SPEAKER_04: How can we keep flying affordable or flying for less?
25:23
SPEAKER_04: I mean, micro lights are an obvious place to start, aren't they?
25:26
SPEAKER_03: Well, they are.
25:27
SPEAKER_03: I think they are an obvious place to start.
25:29
SPEAKER_03: Um, the uh the syllabus is a little bit shorter from your uh the the full license, let's say.
25:34
SPEAKER_03: Um they're affordable from a running perspective.
25:37
SPEAKER_03: Um we've got, I mean, syndicates aren't new.
25:40
SPEAKER_03: When I when I started flying as a as a 13-year-old with my dad, he was a uh had a share in a Joe Dell at Shobden.
25:47
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
25:47
SPEAKER_03: Uh and syndicate ownership, I think I still think gets forgotten.
25:51
SPEAKER_03: And that's not a new concept.
25:52
SPEAKER_03: Um not a new concept, but that makes it more affordable in the first instance.
25:57
SPEAKER_03: Um but I but I do think uh you know you only have to click on A4s and you can see the range of microlites and and affordability there.
26:05
SPEAKER_03: Um and microlites now, I mean, there's a another another friend of mine who's picked up a uh a nice little thruster, um, which he takes up with his son and daughter.
26:14
SPEAKER_03: So there's a there's that sort of infusing.
26:16
SPEAKER_07: Not at the same time.
26:16
SPEAKER_03: Not at the same time, no.
26:18
SPEAKER_03: But his son, his son is 16, does all the flights him, he's an air cadet, but he can go up with his dad and in the relative comfort, and I and I think this is a bit of a flex three-axis thing, you know, the winter's coming.
26:30
SPEAKER_03: He says, Well, yeah.
26:31
SPEAKER_03: He says, in the winter, I just drag out the thruster, or he calls it a thrasher, actually, or something.
26:35
SPEAKER_03: And um, he said it doesn't matter if it gets wet, it doesn't matter if it gets muddy, and he's got a 582 on the front, it does gozz on the fuel, but three and a half thousand pounds, that's affordable.
26:45
SPEAKER_06: I know when we've done when we've done our value challenges in the past, that the the the the three axis microlight um uh sector on A4s has been a has been a strong area to go and find that value, isn't it?
26:59
SPEAKER_07: So yeah, I mean there are but the sh the shadow and the thrusters, you can buy that stuff for cheapest, cheapest chips.
27:06
SPEAKER_07: Cheapest chips, yeah.
27:06
SPEAKER_03: And it's affordable, but the the shadow owner I was speaking to at Playstows, um, he's he's put a lot of time and effort into it.
27:14
SPEAKER_03: And the fact is he can work on it and he can modify this.
27:17
SPEAKER_03: He was talking to me about a modification, he would like to change the prop and he'd like to change the gearbox and you'd want a slight bit more thrust and uh and a bit you know, just a bit more performance.
27:25
SPEAKER_06: Was he running that as an SSDR or was had he kept it two seats?
27:28
SPEAKER_06: He's kept it as two seats.
27:29
SPEAKER_06: Okay, yeah.
27:30
SPEAKER_06: And um, you know, that still hasn't found anyone who wants to sit in the back.
27:33
SPEAKER_03: It is quite it would be quite tight.
27:35
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, it would be.
27:38
SPEAKER_07: I'm I'm happy.
27:40
SPEAKER_03: It would be very tight for somebody of my height.
27:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
27:42
SPEAKER_07: Hold on.
27:42
SPEAKER_06: I'm I'm eating in the back of a shadow.
27:45
SPEAKER_07: I wouldn't be able to do that at the moment, that's for sure.
27:48
SPEAKER_03: But he he he pulled it out of his container, and again, storage.
27:51
SPEAKER_03: You know, this is wing a wing fold, no, it's not a wing folder on a shadow, but he lifted the wings off and put them in a rack.
27:57
SPEAKER_03: Um I'd that evening I'd flown a little um SSDR9, uh, which is a trike.
28:03
SPEAKER_03: And again, you know, the wings folded into a container.
28:06
SPEAKER_03: All right.
28:06
SPEAKER_03: So storage, I've got fully rigged hangarage, which is not that cheap.
28:11
SPEAKER_03: It's a nice, it's a nice airfield.
28:13
SPEAKER_03: Um, but but I do think that's another way in which micro rights can be made more affordable because the storage options, again, hangarage, but it all builds up, doesn't it?
28:20
SPEAKER_03: Insurance, running costs, the licensing costs.
28:24
SPEAKER_06: Well, insurance and hangarage are the big numbers, aren't they?
28:27
SPEAKER_07: They are.
28:27
SPEAKER_07: Well, though, I mean I think uh and it's probably the BHPA, perhaps.
28:32
SPEAKER_07: Because you know, if you if you look at uh the Mini Fox at Lideway, oh yeah, if you're SSDR.
28:38
SPEAKER_07: SSDR, the insurance for that is something like 85 quid a year.
28:41
SPEAKER_06: Membership of the BMP, isn't it?
28:43
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, it's like bargain.
28:45
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
28:46
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
28:46
SPEAKER_07: Um I think I mean I think the SSDR side of things, perhaps we can talk a little bit more about that as well, seems to have really been the real cutting edge of of low-cost flying, but also engaged in that flying.
29:00
SPEAKER_06: Well, I guess you you got a BMA might may be seeing more of that, and obviously you've got the sub-70 as well, haven't you?
29:07
SPEAKER_03: Yes, yeah, and I think the sub-70, the sub-70 SSDR, they're they're they're quite difficult to distinguish because you can go and buy a sub-70, you can fly it without a license.
29:17
SPEAKER_03: Right.
29:18
SPEAKER_03: And then where does a sub-70 become an SSDR?
29:21
SPEAKER_03: And it's to do with the the weight of the trikes or the weight of the three-axis aircraft.
29:26
SPEAKER_03: And and actually uh a sub-70 uh flex wing microlight is is quite lightweight.
29:30
SPEAKER_03: You know, you can't put luggage, you're a bit limited on your fuel.
29:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
29:34
SPEAKER_03: So actually, you could you could legally go and do that, but flying schools really push an awareness and some dual training before jumping into no one actually buys a sub-70 and flies it without any training.
29:46
SPEAKER_03: I think you'd be surprised.
29:47
SPEAKER_03: I would be well, I I when I say, you know, if you take Facebook Marketplace and you take you know various things like that, people go, I'd like to go and have a go at that.
29:55
SPEAKER_03: They watch a YouTube clip and off they go.
29:57
SPEAKER_03: And I know from talking to the BHPA, they were saying they have some concerns about unregulated flying.
30:03
SPEAKER_07: I mean, I guess ultimately, if if people are doing that, I mean I think they'd be stupid to do that personally.
30:08
SPEAKER_07: I would agree with you, She.
30:09
SPEAKER_07: But hang on, you know, the fields aren't full of them either.
30:12
SPEAKER_03: No, no, but um I think maybe that survival instinct kicks in after a while.
30:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and there's low energy, low speed, various things like that.
30:19
SPEAKER_03: But I think there's a few have a go heroes who who have watched it on YouTube and go, yeah, I can do that.
30:24
SPEAKER_03: Um so I I'm not advising all over, is that I'm not advising that.
30:29
SPEAKER_03: I'm not advising that.
30:30
SPEAKER_04: But uh I think it's so let's clear up sub-70, sub-70 kilograms.
30:33
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
30:34
SPEAKER_04: An SSDR, a single seat, deregulated.
30:37
SPEAKER_04: Up to 300.
30:37
SPEAKER_03: Uh to 300, yeah.
30:38
SPEAKER_03: 300 kg.
30:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
30:39
SPEAKER_03: And that was the question about the shadow.
30:41
SPEAKER_07: But the sub-70 isn't a max all-up weight of sub-70s.
30:43
SPEAKER_07: No, it's the aircraft.
30:44
SPEAKER_07: It's the aircraft.
30:45
SPEAKER_07: Whereas the SSDR, 300 is a max.
30:47
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, max.
30:48
SPEAKER_03: So actually, we have a number of aircraft in our fleet where they might, and you picked up on the question about the shadow, have they taken the rear seat out?
30:55
SPEAKER_03: Have they taken the seat belts out and put a fuel tank there or put a luggage carrier or something like that?
31:00
SPEAKER_03: And then they could fly at SSDR.
31:02
SPEAKER_03: Um, and it just gives them a bit more freedom to do the modifications, which is what Ed picked up on.
31:05
SPEAKER_03: But I think this owner is wanting to ensure that he can still take people up and it's still on a permit.
31:11
SPEAKER_03: Um, but I do think it just gives them opportunities.
31:13
SPEAKER_03: I know of a couple of shadow owners who have modified aircraft, tried this, tried that, and it just gives them a bit more freedom, really, but doing it all responsibly.
31:22
SPEAKER_06: Um I'm guessing quite a few of your lighter trikes have probably gone the SSDR route.
31:28
SPEAKER_03: Yes, and I think some of our older trikes where people are tending to fire them on their own, they can say, right, well, let's take that rear seat out and put a luggage bag in there, and then I can keep keep flying it.
31:38
SPEAKER_03: So that's affordable.
31:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
31:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
31:40
SPEAKER_07: I mean, I think that's that's in to my mind, that's probably affordable and a good thing for people who are experienced to decide that's the way to go.
31:47
SPEAKER_07: It's probably not the ideal way of bringing new people in.
31:50
SPEAKER_07: No, show them and have a go.
31:51
SPEAKER_03: No, no, any and I think I think people are going to do a trial lesson.
31:54
SPEAKER_03: People are going to do a trial lesson in a two-seat micro lite.
31:57
SPEAKER_03: And if they then saw a single seat one over there, they think, oh, I'd like to have a go of that.
32:00
SPEAKER_03: I think most flying schools will say, well, you know, let's let's train you up.
32:03
SPEAKER_03: And then that could be an affordable route for you.
32:06
SPEAKER_03: But I do know there are a number of people who are flying uh SSDR type microlitz, and they've bimbled around in the local area.
32:12
SPEAKER_03: They've bimbled around in the local area.
32:14
SPEAKER_03: They've done that a little bit more, and then they've said, actually, I'd like to go a little bit further, I'd like to travel a bit further.
32:19
SPEAKER_03: What's next?
32:19
SPEAKER_03: And then it's that stepping stone to a full micro light license.
32:23
SPEAKER_03: So I think it's uh it's a definite way in which to encourage people into the sport.
32:28
SPEAKER_03: Um speaking personally, having flown an SSDR trike last week, great fun, brought back memories of when I learned to fly.
32:35
SPEAKER_03: Um, really, you know, no pod, you know, you could just see everything.
32:38
SPEAKER_03: But then I thought to myself, when I jumped in my microlyte, I thought, right, I've got a little bit more power, I've got a bit more comfort, and I've got a little bit more speed as well.
32:46
SPEAKER_03: So if I want to go places, yeah.
32:48
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I know of a number of people, you know, SSDR trips where they'll put all their luggage and baggage and they'll they'll go bivywacking and stuff like that, you know, and it's great.
32:55
SPEAKER_06: What's their luggage?
32:56
SPEAKER_06: Like a matchbox?
32:58
SPEAKER_03: It's a whole, it's a whole it's a whole art.
33:00
SPEAKER_03: There's a number of pilots I know who share stories of their tents and fitting into this and fitting into that, you know, the little panniers here or a bag above their helmet and stuff.
33:08
SPEAKER_03: So they can pit, they can fit it in and they'll carry the load, but they're not doing it quickly.
33:12
SPEAKER_03: You know, they are pottling along and enjoying the view.
33:14
SPEAKER_03: So it depends what floats your boat, really.
33:16
SPEAKER_07: What what is your microwave?
33:18
SPEAKER_03: Mine's uh uh I've got a share and a quick R.
33:20
SPEAKER_03: So uh yeah, PM quick R with uh 1400 hours on it.
33:25
SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, built in 2000, it's about 19 years old.
33:29
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, um, I think it's you know it's a fabulous machine.
33:33
SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, flew across the channel in the in the summer, down to Chambly.
33:37
SPEAKER_03: Um came back from uh uh Dover to Oxford in an hour and a half, you know.
33:43
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, there's they're they're they're capable machines, capable machines, yeah.
33:47
SPEAKER_06: And what's your view of the of what's being what we're seeing as the the new breed of microlites that they're coming along in the 600 kg category now?
33:58
SPEAKER_06: And obviously, because some people do grit their teeth when when we roll out the word affordable with some of those.
34:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I and I think you'll see some people say light sport microlites and and some of the marketing in and around that.
34:10
SPEAKER_03: Um, I mean, from a from a licensing point of view and for signing off and and all those sort of things, they're still termed a microlyte, but that's a capable aircraft.
34:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
34:18
SPEAKER_03: And actually, we had this discussion at the Playstos Club meeting, we said about the word microlight, and you know, um, we're talking talking to a couple, and they said, Well, we say we've got a two-seat aircraft, and and it's and there's a there's still a there's still a a a bit of stigma attached to the word microlight, and you look at those very capable 600 kg light sport aircraft or light sport microlytes, um, and are they affordable?
34:45
SPEAKER_03: I don't think they are because they're out of my price category.
34:48
SPEAKER_03: I'm assuming they're probably out of most of our price categories, but they will appeal to a certain demographic, and and you know, glass cockpit performance.
34:56
SPEAKER_03: I flew in a 916 um dynamic at the LAA rally on the uh on the Friday, I think it was on the Saturday.
35:02
SPEAKER_03: Wow, incredible, incredible performance, yeah, and incredible fun as well.
35:07
SPEAKER_03: And I think you can get hung up on the weight, but actually you could have easily flown that out of a farm strip, no problem, you know.
35:14
SPEAKER_03: No, yeah, no problem at all.
35:15
SPEAKER_03: So, where does that define you?
35:16
SPEAKER_03: Fun and farm strips, to me, that that's fun flying as well.
35:20
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I mean there there are there's there seems to be a number of airplanes uh uh that are 150k plus.
35:27
SPEAKER_06: There are some there is some stuff though that is sub-100k.
35:30
SPEAKER_06: And I know people again, you know, shiver a bit when you go, that's affordable, but everything has got expensive now.
35:36
SPEAKER_06: You your typical family hatchback is like 30,000 pounds now.
35:40
SPEAKER_07: So I think it's it's it's a shame.
35:42
SPEAKER_07: And aviation is as guilty as this as other areas where we do tend to become a little bit tribal about stuff as well.
35:47
SPEAKER_07: I go, I'm a flex wing pilot, it costs me Jeep as chips, and then somebody goes, Well, I've got a two-seat VL3 that only cost me 200 grand or whatever it they cost, I don't know.
35:56
SPEAKER_07: And then but there are other people who go, Well, I've downgraded from my jet, I've gone to a Malibu.
36:01
SPEAKER_07: That exists for them, you know, and there's part of the difference is there may be people who go, you know what?
36:06
SPEAKER_07: I used to fly this four-seat relatively new Muni, cost me a fortune, can't really afford that anymore, don't need four seats.
36:12
SPEAKER_07: I've I've I've got this, two seats, same performance, a whole load of farm strips.
36:17
SPEAKER_07: I'm loving it.
36:17
SPEAKER_07: I'm still in aviation.
36:19
SPEAKER_07: We need, you know, it it's the more we subdivide, the less helpful it is, I think.
36:24
SPEAKER_07: We are a community of aviators, whether we sub whether we fly 70 kilo trikes or sub-70 trikes, or whether we fly king airs.
36:34
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
36:35
SPEAKER_07: We'll fly.
36:35
SPEAKER_03: I think picking up on your point about tribal, um, that's something microliters as a whole, as a community, have done incredibly well because there is less of that us and them.
36:45
SPEAKER_03: Although actually there's still a bit of healthy banter about trikes or three-axis and stick fiddlers, or you've got the heater on and various things like that.
36:54
SPEAKER_07: Are you soft if you have a heater?
36:56
SPEAKER_07: Well, you know, as you sit there and you're Michelin man battery heated.
37:00
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's true.
37:02
SPEAKER_03: Heated grips, heated blood.
37:04
SPEAKER_06: And you're not going to so is it it's cheating.
37:06
SPEAKER_06: It's like you're going, oh, I have no heater, but I've got this comfy heated suit.
37:10
SPEAKER_06: Let me see your frostbite.
37:12
SPEAKER_03: There's all sorts of tricks like that.
37:14
SPEAKER_03: But um, I do think it is a bit about it it's flying, it's fun, it's enjoyable.
37:19
SPEAKER_03: And and actually, that definition of those microlides, they have to, you know, they have to be short field performance, they have to be in and out of farm strips, um, and they don't need a thousand meters worth of tarmac to to to get off.
37:30
SPEAKER_03: Um, but but some of those are hot ships.
37:33
SPEAKER_03: Um, we'll we'll welcome them because I think that they're they're fun flying, and and that'll probably melcum more people into into the BMAA.
37:43
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna I try not to use the word microline then.
37:46
SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
37:46
SPEAKER_03: Um, but the you know the benefits and being part of our membership, I think it's important.
37:50
SPEAKER_03: Um there'll do a lot of experience of running those types of aircraft and the technical issues and the technical challenges as well.
37:56
SPEAKER_04: Can you have a syndicate around a micro-ite aircraft?
37:58
SPEAKER_03: Uh well I'm in a syndicate, yes.
38:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:01
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
38:02
SPEAKER_04: Just sort of clarify that point.
38:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I'm a s I'm a syndicate.
38:05
SPEAKER_03: We've four of us in a quick car, which is probably worth and probably now worth maybe about 15 or 16,000.
38:11
SPEAKER_03: So just let's round it to 16.
38:13
SPEAKER_03: So that's a 4K share that I have.
38:16
SPEAKER_03: I I've got three teenage daughters.
38:18
SPEAKER_03: Okay?
38:18
SPEAKER_03: All right.
38:19
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
38:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:20
SPEAKER_03: All right.
38:21
SPEAKER_03: Two of them have just learned to drive.
38:22
SPEAKER_03: So I know about balancing costs.
38:24
SPEAKER_03: So I actually I can only make it affordable by being a syndicate member.
38:28
SPEAKER_03: So obviously hangarage is divided.
38:29
SPEAKER_03: Our insurance is a little bit higher because there's a a little bit more risk around the premium.
38:33
SPEAKER_03: Um, but on the whole, that's affordable flying.
38:35
SPEAKER_03: That's back to your point.
38:37
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I bought this, I bought that.
38:38
SPEAKER_03: When I used to have my own Pegasus Q quite a long time ago, I bought that for four or five thousand pounds.
38:44
SPEAKER_03: You know, and so I've used the same sort of equity or same amount of money to have uh as a syndicate ownership in a capable machine that I can get to the Isle of Wight in an hour from Oxford.
38:55
SPEAKER_04: Just in case you're interested, I did spot on A4s a Pegasus Q 912.
39:00
SPEAKER_04: 912?
39:01
SPEAKER_04: They didn't make a 912.
39:03
SPEAKER_03: It's listed as a there must be.
39:04
SPEAKER_03: You need to check that.
39:05
SPEAKER_04: Well, it's 6'5.
39:06
SPEAKER_04: 6.5 they're asking for, right?
39:07
SPEAKER_04: Is that a quantum?
39:08
SPEAKER_04: Quantum, yeah.
39:09
SPEAKER_03: Okay, yeah, that's a good value.
39:10
SPEAKER_07: That's worth buying just for the price, just for the engine.
39:12
SPEAKER_03: Just for the engine, yeah.
39:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
39:14
SPEAKER_04: It's the 80 horsepower engine.
39:15
SPEAKER_07: I personally I think syndicates and uh a way of making that possible are the key to getting people to not only into aviation, but the key to keeping people in aviation.
39:26
SPEAKER_07: I really believe if you don't get in a into a syndicate, and it might be a syndicate of one, which I know that wouldn't be a syndicate, but you know what I mean.
39:33
SPEAKER_07: I I think you know, going into that hourly rental thing and waiting for people, which it is just not a great way after a while of experiencing aviation.
39:42
SPEAKER_07: It if you can if you can choose the right people, then you're golden.
39:47
SPEAKER_07: If you choose the wrong people, it's a nightmare.
39:48
SPEAKER_03: But but I think it's also where you know, flying is a social thing.
39:52
SPEAKER_03: People enjoy talking about flying, um, people enjoy going places, people enjoy spending time together.
39:58
SPEAKER_03: So if you're in a in a syndicate, there's a there's a shared uh experience there.
40:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
40:03
SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think picking up my point about microlighting being a social experience, um, quite often my experience of a GA traditional flying school can be a little bit cold.
40:13
SPEAKER_03: And I don't know if I'm being a little controversial there, but you know, it's you come in, you book your aircraft, you go flying, you come back.
40:20
SPEAKER_03: Maybe there's a bit less of that.
40:21
SPEAKER_03: Um, but syndicate ownership, I think that encourages you to get past year three, year four.
40:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, the journey of a trainee pilot, get your license, take your family and friends up.
40:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you go and do some local cross countries, and then now what next?
40:36
SPEAKER_03: Now, if you've a syndicate member and you're part of a club um and you're regularly doing trips and you're encouraged to go go somewhere um, you know, with a mentor, um, with somebody who can support you with your flying, I think that gets you past year four and year five.
40:50
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I've been across the channel twice.
40:52
SPEAKER_03: So uh this year, uh Jeffrey was my co-pilot, he and I flew down there in May, and he knows about all the guars and he knows about all those those sorts of things because he's done it 15, 16 times.
41:03
SPEAKER_03: I've only done it twice.
41:04
SPEAKER_03: And actually, I've only done it twice.
41:06
SPEAKER_03: I'm a novice in in doing those things, and it's it's stepping out of your comfort zone and having somebody with you.
41:12
SPEAKER_03: And I think that's the point about being a syndicate member or being being part of a group, it's really important to further your flying.
41:19
SPEAKER_07: Back to your previous kind of career that a syndicate, a syndicate done right is the continued education and apprenticeship into aviation from a flying school.
41:28
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah.
41:29
SPEAKER_07: Um and that if if you don't have that, all of a sudden it's like, oh my god.
41:33
SPEAKER_07: And now what?
41:34
SPEAKER_07: And now what?
41:35
SPEAKER_07: And all right, it's okay.
41:36
SPEAKER_07: If you're a what I can't remember what you call it, have a go hero, then that if you've got that kind of attitude, then maybe, but most people aren't.
41:42
SPEAKER_07: No, no.
41:43
SPEAKER_07: And and most people like the social side of things, and and most people like to do things right and understand things.
41:48
SPEAKER_07: Um so I think that's a great part of it.
41:51
SPEAKER_04: Well, I think uh I think it's been a fascinating conversation, I think.
41:55
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no, but it's been really good to have you.
41:57
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, absolutely.
41:57
SPEAKER_06: And you you've clearly settled in, it's it's and it's still relatively early days, but you've clearly settled in pretty well.
42:04
SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, but I think back to what I said right at the start, I think is um we've got a really experienced team who have looked after me and supported me.
42:11
SPEAKER_03: Um I felt very much at home very quickly, and there's a whole, you know, there's a wealth of knowledge and expertise there.
42:16
SPEAKER_03: So I think settling in, we've got a few um new things planned for next year.
42:20
SPEAKER_03: We're gonna do an uh an inspector seminar alongside our instructor seminar, so that's a new one.
42:25
SPEAKER_03: We're gonna do an awards uh evening, uh dinner and dance in March.
42:29
SPEAKER_03: So rather than the um awards being presented at Popham normally, yeah in a marquee, which people are a bit preoccupied, they want to leave.
42:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
42:36
SPEAKER_03: So we're gonna hopefully celebrate and recognise achievement and and uh um you know uh contributions, whether it be people to club flying or maintenance or whatever it might be.
42:46
SPEAKER_03: So we're gonna do that in March.
42:48
SPEAKER_03: Uh so those are two you know relatively new things, but there's a there's other things in the pipeline.
42:52
SPEAKER_03: Um, and then there's just the yeah, there's the day-to-day.
42:55
SPEAKER_03: There's the day to day of just churning through things and and making sure that we're operating and supporting our members.
43:00
SPEAKER_05: Fantastic.
43:01
SPEAKER_05: Well, thank you for taking the time to come and see us.
43:03
SPEAKER_07: Thank you for the I think we should get together in a year's time and do your school report.
43:08
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
43:09
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
43:09
SPEAKER_03: Well, uh yeah, it depends who's marking it.
43:13
SPEAKER_03: Well, we are, obviously.
43:16
SPEAKER_03: I'll get you another tea.
43:19
SPEAKER_07: Great, thank you.
43:20
SPEAKER_07: Thank you.
43:23
SPEAKER_07: Well, what a thoroughly nice bloke.
43:25
SPEAKER_07: Absolutely.
43:26
SPEAKER_07: I think the UK scene for microlighting has got a got a good future.
43:30
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and you know, uh Owen is clearly passionate about flex wings and uh everything about microlighting.
43:36
SPEAKER_06: So um I look forward to seeing how things develop under his lead.
43:39
SPEAKER_07: Right.
43:40
SPEAKER_07: My quiz time, surprise for both of you, but I'm sure I know I know any.
43:44
SPEAKER_07: No, but you you you I'm sure you'll know it.
43:47
SPEAKER_07: We're talking about the club.
43:48
SPEAKER_07: We're talking about the Flyer Club and why you should be a member.
43:50
SPEAKER_07: The first reason you should be a member, well, there's not the first, but one of the equal first reasons you should be a member is the free landing fees.
43:57
SPEAKER_07: For the free landing fees for October, as an example.
44:00
SPEAKER_07: Who knows what they are?
44:01
SPEAKER_06: I know.
44:01
SPEAKER_06: Excellent.
44:02
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
44:03
SPEAKER_06: So yeah, in October, your free landing fees are Perth, Leicester, Audley End, Goodwood, and save at least fifty-two pounds if you do all of that.
44:13
SPEAKER_06: I've read that from Dave's notes.
44:14
SPEAKER_06: There you go.
44:15
SPEAKER_06: And if you do all of that in a month, let us know.
44:17
SPEAKER_07: Send us proof.
44:18
SPEAKER_07: I'll buy you lunch at Woodwick.
44:19
SPEAKER_06: That is a good challenge.
44:21
SPEAKER_06: It's a good challenge.
44:22
SPEAKER_06: I I you know, is anyone gonna do that?
44:24
SPEAKER_06: I'd like to think maybe someone will.
44:25
SPEAKER_06: I hope so.
44:26
SPEAKER_06: Someone wants a lunch at Woodswick, Orkidell, famous for writing many flying adventures in Flyer, uh, famously did all six from Scotland down to Land's End.
44:35
SPEAKER_06: He did.
44:35
SPEAKER_06: In a Eurostar.
44:36
SPEAKER_06: So if Paul can do it, you two can do.
44:41
SPEAKER_04: Hurst to Kupwood is gonna be a challenge in a Eurostar in winter.
44:44
SPEAKER_07: You don't have to do it in a Eurostar, you can do it in whichever airplane you want.
44:49
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, absolutely.
44:49
SPEAKER_07: So other reasons to join the Flyer Club, apart from the fact you get access to everything we create on the website and you get full access to the forum.
44:56
SPEAKER_07: You also get access to member-only webinars.
44:59
SPEAKER_07: We do one of these a month.
45:00
SPEAKER_07: There's a whole library going back a couple of years with all sorts of subjects.
45:04
SPEAKER_07: There's one coming up soon on the 28th of October, I think, if I remember rightly.
45:08
SPEAKER_07: Is that right, Ed?
45:09
SPEAKER_07: That's me.
45:10
SPEAKER_07: Is that you?
45:10
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's me, and we're talking about uh air-to-air photography and tips and tricks for that.
45:14
SPEAKER_07: So that'll be an excellent webinar.
45:16
SPEAKER_07: Looking forward to that.
45:17
SPEAKER_07: We've we've had Steve Morley doing license revalidation and derusting.
45:21
SPEAKER_07: We've had Mark Greenfield doing uh PFLs.
45:24
SPEAKER_07: Award-winning Mark Greenfield.
45:26
SPEAKER_07: Award-winning Mark Greenfield.
45:27
SPEAKER_07: We've had one from the AIB on all sorts of things.
45:30
SPEAKER_07: There's a whole series of them.
45:31
SPEAKER_07: We've had IMC stuff.
45:33
SPEAKER_07: Anyway, loads and loads of it.
45:34
SPEAKER_07: One gets added each month.
45:35
SPEAKER_07: So yeah.
45:36
SPEAKER_07: So it would cost you, if you are not a member already, it'll cost you six pounds per month.
45:40
SPEAKER_07: I usually say per week by mistake, but it is per month.
45:43
SPEAKER_07: Or 62 pounds per year.
45:45
SPEAKER_07: That's got to be the biggest bargain in aviation.
45:46
SPEAKER_07: And frankly, um, we can only create what we create with your help.
45:50
SPEAKER_07: If we haven't got your help, we can't do it, I'm afraid.
45:52
SPEAKER_07: So please uh think about joining and investing that six pounds per month.
45:57
SPEAKER_07: It's got to be the best investment in aviation, I'd say.
46:00
SPEAKER_06: We'd say so.
46:00
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, for sure.
46:01
SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
46:04
SPEAKER_06: Well, it's the big question of the week, and that is what caught your eye?
46:09
SPEAKER_06: So, Ian.
46:10
SPEAKER_06: Is it me?
46:11
SPEAKER_06: Well, I've decided, yes.
46:13
SPEAKER_07: So you know that you know that thing on Facebook sometimes it goes that members of the Dole Men's Club or Dole Women's Club, or well, I think I've developed inadvertently a a little secret place to go looking, and that's in the about pages.
46:27
SPEAKER_07: You shouldn't say I've developed a secret place to go looking on the internet.
46:31
SPEAKER_07: That's a bad that's a bad path.
46:33
SPEAKER_07: No.
46:33
SPEAKER_07: Okay, basically what I'm trying to say is if you go and look at the about pages for several companies, you find a lot more information there than you would normally expect.
46:41
SPEAKER_07: Um and one such is a company we all know and love, Sky Demon.
46:45
SPEAKER_07: So there's go go check out the about page on Sky Demon.
46:48
SPEAKER_07: But apart from anything else, um, did you know for a company that's been going since 2009, not that long in aviation terms, they've got three Queens Awards for Enterprise?
46:59
SPEAKER_07: I did know that.
47:00
SPEAKER_07: You did know that.
47:01
SPEAKER_06: I did know that, only because they're very good at, you know, pointing pointing that out.
47:04
SPEAKER_06: Because rightly, so that's something to be really proud of.
47:07
SPEAKER_07: Did you know that Tim, you probably I think you did know that Tim got an OBE in 2020?
47:11
SPEAKER_07: Tim Obe, yes.
47:12
SPEAKER_07: Yes.
47:12
SPEAKER_07: Tim Obe, yeah.
47:13
SPEAKER_07: Tim Obe.
47:14
SPEAKER_07: However, there's another sentence that I'm going to read verbatim from here.
47:17
SPEAKER_07: It says, as a company lucky enough to make more money than we need, we recognize our responsibility to give some of that money away to good causes.
47:25
SPEAKER_07: We split most of our donations across these categories pilot scholarships, national charities, and local causes.
47:32
SPEAKER_07: Pretty good news, I think you'd agree.
47:33
SPEAKER_07: I knew about scholarships.
47:34
SPEAKER_07: I knew about scholarships.
47:36
SPEAKER_06: Some at least.
47:36
SPEAKER_07: The interesting thing, and the thing that I didn't realise, this is amazing, their charity giving has now exceeded£750,000.
47:44
SPEAKER_07: Three-quarters of a million quid they've given away.
47:46
SPEAKER_07: 91,000 to pilot scholarships,£535,000 to national charities such as uh Cancer Research and other things, and£116,000 to local causes.
47:56
SPEAKER_07: Fantastic.
47:57
SPEAKER_07: Pretty amazing.
47:58
SPEAKER_07: That that's astonishing.
47:59
SPEAKER_07: It is astonishing.
48:00
SPEAKER_07: Well done, Sky Demon.
48:01
SPEAKER_06: And not only that, they're keeping pilots on track and safe and out of airspace.
48:08
SPEAKER_07: Absolutely.
48:08
SPEAKER_07: And and giving them the choice whether they want to fly north up or track up as well.
48:12
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, but clearly where there's no where there's choice, there's no choice.
48:15
SPEAKER_07: There's no choice, absolutely.
48:16
SPEAKER_07: Well done, Sky Demon.
48:17
SPEAKER_07: Top work.
48:18
SPEAKER_07: There we go.
48:18
SPEAKER_07: Dave.
48:19
SPEAKER_04: Yes, well, I spotted last week um that the Pulitzer Trophy is being held again.
48:24
SPEAKER_06: Pulitzer?
48:25
SPEAKER_06: The Pulitzer Trophy.
48:26
SPEAKER_06: Is that for journalism?
48:27
SPEAKER_06: Is that the Pulitzer Prize?
48:29
SPEAKER_04: That's the Pulitzer Prize.
48:30
SPEAKER_04: It's not the Pulitzer Prize, it's the Pulitzer Trophy.
48:32
SPEAKER_04: And it's uh for an electric aircraft air race.
48:36
SPEAKER_04: Um it's actually more than one race.
48:37
SPEAKER_04: It's very complicated the way it's put together.
48:39
SPEAKER_04: Um it's actually a hundred years since the original Pulitzer Trophy for air racing uh took place.
48:45
SPEAKER_04: It was held last week in Springfield, Ohio, uh, which is home to the National Advanced Air Mobility Centre.
48:53
SPEAKER_04: This is drones and electric air.
48:55
SPEAKER_07: People just make this stuff up, don't they?
48:57
SPEAKER_04: I know, but it's very big in America.
48:58
SPEAKER_04: I love to make it stuff.
48:59
SPEAKER_07: So did you know Wadswick was home of the National Advanced German Aviation Broadcasting Unit?
49:05
SPEAKER_07: That is a true statement.
49:06
SPEAKER_04: That's a true statement, yeah.
49:07
SPEAKER_04: Anyway, it is Pulitzer Trophy.
49:09
SPEAKER_04: Competing pilots and teams are flying zero emission, fully electric aircraft across various platforms, you know, from what they call ECTOL, conventional takeoff, and to e VTOL, E vertical takeoff, and something called ESTOL, which is electric, short takeoff.
49:27
SPEAKER_06: We're gonna have to have a more um uh moratorium.
49:32
SPEAKER_06: Moratorium, yes.
49:34
SPEAKER_06: On on acronyms, I feel.
49:36
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
49:37
SPEAKER_04: So the they raced around a 15 nautical mile closed circuit triangular course in staggered heats, and they it working out who was the winner took a few days because of the various handicaps and all this kind of stuff.
49:50
SPEAKER_04: Anyway, the winner was a woman called uh well the pilot was uh a woman called Tyler Prather, who prefers to be known as Tyler P.
49:58
SPEAKER_04: And she was flying the beta alia CX 300.
50:02
SPEAKER_04: Okay, yeah.
50:02
SPEAKER_04: So that's uh that was over in the UK, wasn't it?
50:06
SPEAKER_04: This yeah, this summer.
50:07
SPEAKER_04: This summer, yeah.
50:08
SPEAKER_04: And second was another girl, another woman, Jackie Gaylor of the US Air Force Academy, and she was flying a pepest straw.
50:18
SPEAKER_04: I haven't said pipestroll.
50:19
SPEAKER_04: No, you haven't said, and it shows.
50:21
SPEAKER_04: Pippestraw, Velis Electro.
50:23
SPEAKER_04: Um one of the uh one of the guys we know, I I know, called Adam Twiddle, who's a former RF pilot involved in the UK's Future of Flight initiative.
50:32
SPEAKER_04: Um and he also has formed uh uh a jet broker's company as well, uh as you do.
50:38
SPEAKER_04: Anyway, he was there and he was flying uh in in the event, but he said none of us other pilots could come close to their blistering laptimes.
50:46
SPEAKER_04: So it sounds like he was flying on a pit postroll as well.
50:52
SPEAKER_04: Anyway, it seems to me that that air race is probably a bit like the Royal Aero Club air races, where it's finishly difficult to work out and everyone's got a handicap.
51:02
SPEAKER_07: Um it seems to me that the Pulitzer Air Race prize needs a bit of a marketing consultant because A, if it's really complicated, B, if it takes three days to work out who's won, C, if we'd never heard of it before.
51:13
SPEAKER_07: Yes.
51:14
SPEAKER_07: It's like, what are you playing at, people?
51:16
SPEAKER_04: I think the fact we never heard about it before is probably not very good.
51:19
SPEAKER_04: Clearly.
51:20
SPEAKER_07: The fact that you have a competition, then it takes three days.
51:23
SPEAKER_07: Can you imagine that?
51:23
SPEAKER_07: You go to a Moto GP or a Formula One racing, and they go, right, well, come back in three days, we'll tell you who won.
51:29
SPEAKER_04: I I think part of that was because it was a week-long event and they've had various seminars and presentations along the way.
51:34
SPEAKER_04: The racing was on Sunday.
51:36
SPEAKER_04: They probably didn't want everyone to go home until they'd you know Well, until they were a year older.
51:43
SPEAKER_07: It's all about instant gratification.
51:45
SPEAKER_07: Well, it's a race, but we can't tell you who won because we don't know.
51:48
SPEAKER_06: Clearly, that this this should have been a reason why the um the spirit of innovation was not retired.
51:53
SPEAKER_06: Because some Brits could have turned up and and like raced around and gone, it's like, suck my wash.
52:02
SPEAKER_06: Right.
52:02
SPEAKER_04: I think we need to move on very quickly ahead.
52:05
SPEAKER_06: How about you?
52:06
SPEAKER_06: Uh well, okay, so this caught my eye uh this week.
52:09
SPEAKER_06: And it was something that complete I completely missed uh at Oshkosh this year.
52:14
SPEAKER_06: And it's not an E VTOL, it's an F V TOL.
52:18
SPEAKER_06: And you're all going, what is an F VTOL?
52:21
SPEAKER_06: Uh plus it solves the question that I know some of you may find yourself pondering, and that's what happens if I need a tiny Chinook-style helicopter that packs up into the size of a suitcase.
52:32
SPEAKER_06: Uh well, luckily, that F in F V Toll is for folding.
52:36
SPEAKER_06: Folding.
52:36
SPEAKER_06: Because the Janus one from X Control Systems, uh, which is snappy's they call it aka the flying suitcase, uh, is a foldable vertical uh takeoff and landing aircraft.
52:49
SPEAKER_07: Stick with us.
52:50
SPEAKER_07: Stick with us.
52:50
SPEAKER_07: This is worth it.
52:51
SPEAKER_06: So when packed, it's the size of a big suitcase.
52:54
SPEAKER_06: It weighs 70 kilograms and will go in the boot of a car.
52:57
SPEAKER_06: That will cost you money on Ryanair.
52:59
SPEAKER_06: It will, yeah.
53:00
SPEAKER_06: Um but you don't need Ryanair, because you've got a foldable suitcase Chinook.
53:04
SPEAKER_06: So uh powered by a tiny tub turbine.
53:07
SPEAKER_06: Trubine?
53:08
SPEAKER_06: Turbine.
53:08
SPEAKER_06: Uh the Janus 1 is capable of operating from a space as small as 3 by 3 meters and can take off and land on water if you fit floats.
53:17
SPEAKER_06: Uh it can carry 200 kilograms uh with an endurance ranging from 40 minutes to eight hours.
53:22
SPEAKER_06: Uh tops out at 100 miles an hour.
53:24
SPEAKER_06: Eight hours.
53:25
SPEAKER_06: Eight hours.
53:25
SPEAKER_06: I'm guessing if you don't put a person in it, then it can be because um uh X-Control systems are into drones.
53:31
SPEAKER_06: So I'm guessing if you operate it without a person and you swap that for fuel or something, eight hours.
53:37
SPEAKER_06: But with a person, 40 minutes.
53:39
SPEAKER_06: Tops out at 100 miles an hour will climb to 19,000 feet.
53:43
SPEAKER_06: Though I'm guessing it's got no heater in it, so that's probably gonna be a bit chilly.
53:47
SPEAKER_06: Um X and X-Control say the Janus 1's ultralight weight complies with regulations for ultralight aircraft in most regions around the world.
53:56
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's gonna pose some interesting questions.
53:59
SPEAKER_06: Um uh and they say no pilot license or airworthiness certification is required.
54:04
SPEAKER_06: Well, in some places maybe, but certainly not here.
54:06
SPEAKER_06: Uh fly-by-wire control system means that it doesn't fly, it just it's just point with the joystick and it goes where you want.
54:14
SPEAKER_06: And um and as you can see from the video, this is just a brilliant thing.
54:18
SPEAKER_06: I showed it to you earlier, Ian.
54:19
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and you're like, I want one.
54:21
SPEAKER_06: I'd like, yeah.
54:22
SPEAKER_06: That looks brilliant.
54:23
SPEAKER_06: I haven't asked how much they are, but no, we don't know.
54:25
SPEAKER_06: Critical questions like how much, we don't know the answer to.
54:29
SPEAKER_06: Um, but apparently you can learn to fly uh your Janus in 30 minutes.
54:33
SPEAKER_06: So um, but yeah, like I say, no price as far as I could find.
54:36
SPEAKER_06: Uh, but I do think it's very cool, and I would like one for Christmas X X control systems.
54:41
SPEAKER_06: If you're listening, please just send it to us here at the Flyer Studio.
54:45
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
54:45
SPEAKER_07: I I it's it did look pretty funky, or it does look pretty funky.
54:50
SPEAKER_07: Um tiny Chinook.
54:52
SPEAKER_07: I'd want I don't want I'd want a BRS as well, though, because that's Chinook.
54:55
SPEAKER_07: That's that's those intermeshing blades that you get are all a little bit.
54:58
SPEAKER_06: I don't know.
54:58
SPEAKER_06: That and that looked I was Where's the rocket gotta go?
55:01
SPEAKER_06: It's gotta go up between the two flames through the blades.
55:03
SPEAKER_06: Take them out.
55:04
SPEAKER_06: You'd have to be sure you really had a problem before you pulled the rocket.
55:08
SPEAKER_07: I want you to explosively discharge the rotors, then I can want to initiate a sequence, wouldn't it?
55:13
SPEAKER_06: Maybe not, yeah.
55:14
SPEAKER_06: But anyway, I think that looks brilliant, and that really caught my eye.
55:16
SPEAKER_06: I'm just amazed.
55:17
SPEAKER_06: Apparently it was on the Canadian stand.
55:19
SPEAKER_06: But you know, which is kind of buried in the middle of the street.
55:22
SPEAKER_06: Where's the Canadian stand?
55:23
SPEAKER_06: Well, if you look, if you look uh east from the control tower at Oshkosh, you know you've got all the vendors and you've got the international area.
55:31
SPEAKER_06: Apparently it was.
55:32
SPEAKER_07: So then you got a little bit of a French enclave.
55:34
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
55:36
SPEAKER_07: Talking to which it was that Behringer's 40th birthday.
55:38
SPEAKER_07: Happy birthday, Behringer.
55:40
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
55:40
SPEAKER_06: Um, but yeah, no, it was down there, and I'm not sure it was there all week.
55:43
SPEAKER_06: But uh I'm sad I missed that.
55:45
SPEAKER_06: I think uh yeah, we'd have noticed that.
55:48
SPEAKER_06: Well, I don't, it's quite a teeny tiny thing.
55:50
SPEAKER_06: And you know, it's got like the length of one person, isn't it?
55:54
SPEAKER_06: I know, yeah.
55:54
SPEAKER_06: It's not that teeny tiny.
55:55
SPEAKER_06: I mean, compared to a chinook, it is.
55:57
SPEAKER_06: Yes, yeah.
55:58
SPEAKER_06: But I I think that's that's brilliant.
56:00
SPEAKER_06: I imagine you could turn you could buy a whole load with your friends, get a chinook, put them all in the chinnook, and then like turn up at a fly-in, and then get then like have a load of mini chinooks.
56:09
SPEAKER_06: It could be wheeled out the back.
56:11
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
56:11
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
56:11
SPEAKER_06: What could possibly go wrong?
56:13
SPEAKER_06: I don't know.
56:13
SPEAKER_06: So uh if you've liked any of our uh what caught your eye, please tell us in the comments.
56:17
SPEAKER_06: Maybe something's caught your eye, and uh yeah, share it with us.
56:21
SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
56:25
SPEAKER_07: Dave, you got any events left this this year?
56:27
SPEAKER_04: It's very quiet.
56:28
SPEAKER_04: It's getting very quiet.
56:29
SPEAKER_04: But this Saturday in uh Dublin, there's Pilot Careers Live, our uh event for would-be professional pilots.
56:35
SPEAKER_04: And Sunday for the Diary at Slate, fireworks flying on the 5th of November, which is a Wednesday.
56:41
SPEAKER_07: Yep.
56:42
SPEAKER_04: Perfect.
56:43
SPEAKER_04: Yep.
56:43
SPEAKER_07: Excellent.
56:44
SPEAKER_07: Good.
56:44
SPEAKER_07: Well, in that case, I think that just about wraps it up for today.
56:47
SPEAKER_07: Hope you enjoyed our guests as much as we did.
56:49
SPEAKER_07: There will be a special longer version of that video that'll be available exclusively to members first, um, where we talk to Owen about all sorts of other bits and pieces.
56:57
SPEAKER_07: So uh that's well worth keeping an eye out for.
56:59
SPEAKER_07: Thank you very much.
56:59
SPEAKER_07: Don't forget, join the flyer club.
57:01
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57:04
SPEAKER_07: Please leave a comment and please click like.
57:06
SPEAKER_07: All of those help us immensely.
57:07
SPEAKER_07: But above all, join the flyer club, flyer.co.uk forward slash memberships.
57:11
SPEAKER_07: Stay flying.
57:12
SPEAKER_07: Bye.
57:15
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57:21
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57:38
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