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The Power of Pain with Amelia Boone · Mind Over Mountain

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, This is Cheryl strad Welcome to mind Over Mountain,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: where I have conversations with women about the epic and
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: interesting things they do and their lives and their sport.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Today I talk to the champion ultra runner and obstacle
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: course racer Amelia Boone. We discussed the pain she's had
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: to push through to be the competitor that she is,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: the injuries from which he's had to come back, and
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: also about her personal journey of embracing her truth and
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: ultimately honoring her body. Let's get into my conversation with Amelia.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Amelia Boone, Welcome to mind o Her Mountain.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: I'm really excited to talk to you. You know, we
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: had the great pleasure of meeting I think it was
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen or twenty eighteen. Was at twenty seventeen,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: I think it was twenty seventeen at South and Southwest, Yeah,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: at south By Southwest, and we were chatting backstage and
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: I was like, well, so, Amelia, what do you do?
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: And You're like, well, you know, I'm an attorney at Apple,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: but like my you know, my other big thing is
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: I do this obstacle racing, and you know, I was like, oh,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: what's that? And You're like, oh, you know the Spartan
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Death Race and the World's Toughest Mutter. And I was like,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: I vaguely had heard of these things, and I just
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: knew it meant that you were an absolute like like
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: beast and badass. But then after we met, I went
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: home and I have to say, I did a little
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: research on you, and I was like, what on earth
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: is this woman up to? Like I didn't understand what
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: those sports were. Can you please tell our listeners what
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: they are? What happens in a Spartan death Race, for example,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: or the World's Toughest Mutter. Yeah, it is.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: It's something that's been hard for me to describe over
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: the years, but I always tell people it's it's in
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: an obstacle race. It's kind of a combination of, you know,
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: carrying heavy things and climbing over things and crawling under things,
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: but then running between that and then also not only
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: doing that for three five ten miles, but sometimes doing
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: it for twenty four hours.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: And so I think a lot of people.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: Are maybe familiar with American Ninja Warrior, so I tell
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: them it's kind of like that, but with a lot
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: of running and more endurance between them, and not as
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: much acrobats acrobatics. So it's kind of the strength, the speed,
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: the skill, the endurance and just the ability to kind
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: of keep going, I guess in a lot of those
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: long races.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: And not just keep going but really over some very
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: serious obstacles that cause some trouble. It caught some pain.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's what fascinated me after I met you
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: and really was contemplating this sport and realized that, you know,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: I should say, right now, you are a four time champion.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: You have thirty first place finishes.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Is that right somewhere?
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: I like that? And now you've become in more recent
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: years also an ultra runner, and we're going to get
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: to that in a minute. But I'm curious how it
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: is that, you know, how does one become an obstacle
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: race or is what was your path to this sport?
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: The path was a non traditional one.
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: The path was I was a first year associate at
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: a large law firm in Chicago, and I had a
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: coworker come up to me and be like, Hey, there's
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: this really weird race coming to town called a Tough
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: mutter and you crawl under things, you jump through fire,
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: and let's do it.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: And I had never run ten miles before my life.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: I was kind of a I was a team sport
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: athlete growing up, but I never I never ran track
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: and never ran in cross country, and for some reason,
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: I was like, I don't may maybe I can do it.
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: So I trained and I was like, this will give
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: me a this will give me something to do. And
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: we did did a few of us as co workers,
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: and they all were like, Okay, that was fun and
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: moved on with their lives. And instead I became obsessed
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: and I was like, I want to do the next one,
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: and what's the next one? And I did one more
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: and then all of a sudden, this twenty four hour
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: one popped up and I decided immediately that I could
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: somehow do that, and that was my jumping off point
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: and it's it's been a journey ever since.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: What do you think it is about you? Like your
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: specific character? Because that's my feeling. Like I think if
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: I were ever talked into doing an obstacle raise, which
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: maybe I'm fifty seven, I don't know. I think at
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: this point that that's behind me.
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: I don't know who knows My dad was sixty eight
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: and did one with me, so you will reject it? Yes, yeah, okay, okay,
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: so maybe there's still help for me, Amelia. I don't know,
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: like maybe maybe you gotta you know, I'll join you perhaps,
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: but you'll have to hold my hand through the whole
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: thing because I'm going to cry for sure.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: But what do you think it is? Because a lot
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: of people would do it as that kind of you know,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: one time challenge, like I'm going to see if I
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: could do this. Okay, that was fun and hard, but yeah,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: I'm going to just go back to my like running
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: or my you know, my working out at the gym.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: What about you made you continue on? For me?
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: I have always thrived off of this continual pursuit of mastery.
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: I remember going out and doing this first obstacle race
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: and falling off the monkey bars and not being able
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: to carry those really heavy sandbags and thinking, wait, wait,
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: I want to get better at this. And it was
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: this challenge of something where I was like, I need
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: to see how far I can go in this, and
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: that really kind of lights my soul on fire. Are
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: the things that where I want to learn and I
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: want to take it all in and I want to
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: master And there were so many different skills within these
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: kinds of races, you know, not just kind of the
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: strength to carry heavy things or the agility to hop
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: and crawl and like the ability to run fast, but
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: all of those combined, and that to me was this
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: giant puzzle to be able to try and put together
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: and to see what I could do with that.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: I think that's interesting, you know, it's essentially what you're describing.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: I think as a response to failure or response to defeat.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: A lot of people turn away because it makes you
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: feel bad, right when you can't do something, except I
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: want to say, it seems like from the start you
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: were also pretty successful. Or is that not the case?
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Like what role has did failure? I guess we'll get
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: We're going to get to other things later, but like
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: in those early days, did you immediately do kind of
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: better than expected or or did you have some honest
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: failures and defeat at the beginning.
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: I think that you mind, you this was a young
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: sport too, so we're all kind of learning at this right.
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: But I think at the time what I realized was
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: I had an endurance engine. And so kind of what
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: I learned from that was I could I kept going well,
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: is that I could go without tiring.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: And I didn't necessarily.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: Know that at the time, but I was like, oh,
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: that is a skill that I have in That is
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: something that I enjoy the more. The tangible skills of
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: like doing the actual obstacles, those were things that I
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: didn't immediately master from the beginning and took like some work,
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: but the base that was there that was like, Oh,
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: the feeling that I get for running and doing this
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: on hours and hours on end, that was something that
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: immediately kind of came natural to me and that I
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: wanted to keep.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Exploring, right, which then translated over so you know, I
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: want to say, when you were winning these and really
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: competing in these obstacle races, it was like twenty twelve,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: twenty third teene, twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, right, those were
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: your big champion years and you did mention and I
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: want to talk about this because I do. I want
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: to point out that you weren't just a champion in
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: this sport. You were a pioneer because it was it
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: was early days, especially for women. Is that true or
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: was this something men were doing before women joined in,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: or tell us a little bit about that history.
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think that if you go back, like
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: there were some races back in England actually back in
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: the nineties, eighties and nineties that were always vast majority men,
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: I think, and then but like they slowly started to
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: gain more and more popularity. When I started competing, I
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: think we were about ten percent women. And so it
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: was of this like first twenty four hour race of
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: a thousand competitors, we maybe had max. One hundred women,
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  Speaker 3: and like two women finished the entire race that first year,
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: and so it was very, very very male dominated at
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: the time.
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  Speaker 1: Interesting And how was that for you? Did you experience that,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: as you know, did the men rally around the women
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: and support them and treat them as as peers and
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: equals or did you have to confront some sexism along
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: the way or both?
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: I hang both.
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: I mean the first year or the one of the
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: years that I ran the race, I ended up second.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: I won for women, but I ended up second overall,
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  Speaker 3: and I was only seven minutes behind the male winner.
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  Speaker 1: And so it was.
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: Twenty four hours and I remember at the very end
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: the entire like all the spectators were running alongside me,
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: trying to push to like beat the male because they
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: wanted a female overall winner. And I just remember being like,
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: I can't do it, guys, I'm so tired.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: So there was a lot of support for that.
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: But then there were also times where I think at
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: the back in that era, there was this phrase called chicking,
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: which thankfully nobody really talks about it anymore, but is
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: this idea that a guy would feel really bad about
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: himself if he got chicked, which is been he got passed.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: By a woman.
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  Speaker 3: And there was a lot of that that we had
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: to kind of overcome and be like, there's it's it's
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: not an insult to you. You know, it's not an
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: insult to you, dude that I am passing you on
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: the course. And so I think there was a bit
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: of both. Luckily over the years, I do believe now
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: it's really just a sign of respect. You're seeing women
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: win races outright, and everybody is just applotting, like the
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: egos have dropped and gone away. So that's been very
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: heartening to see.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: That's amazing, And I mean, can I just say, like,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: I'm just so impressed by that finish. I mean that's
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: that's astonishing, Amelia. And I think too part of that
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: and I'll admit because part of that that I grew
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: up in my generation and I think in yours too.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: You're you're a bit younger than me, but like, you know,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: just this idea, a very common refrain is like, you know,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: for a boy to be beat by a girl was
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: the ultimate humiliation and that you know that we that
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: you know, we all received that story that we were
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: weaker and and that just gets in your bones, you know.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: And I think that to see women athletes like you
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: and so many others who are out there saying, you know, actually,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: like I can be faster than you or stronger than
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: you in this particular moment or this race, is really
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: changing the narrative, you know. So thank you for being
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: that pioneer. We needed you, We need you.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: It was fun, it was fun. I had a blast.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Well and what's amazing to me is you're still doing that.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: I would love for you to share with us, you know,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: how you transitioned away from obstacle racing and into ultra
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: running and running really some of the world's toughest trail races,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: longest hundred mile ers, things like that, and you know
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: here you are still very often way at the top,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: not just among women but overall. How did you make
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: that transition and tell us about running so far and
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: so hard?
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think that once again, it was this
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: idea of kind of mastery.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: And I spent several years.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: At the top of obstacle racing and feeling really good
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: and doing well. But it got to a point where
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: I was like, well, what's the next thing, What's the
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: next challenge? What else can I look at here? And
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: for me then I you know, I moved to a
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: place where it's more conducive to mountain running, and all
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: of a sudden was like, oh, I can run these
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: races over these mountains and I can do this. So
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: it was this next challenge for me something completely different,
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: well not completely different, but in more in nature, a
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: little bit different vibe. And it's been you know, it's
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: been a wonderful journey to be able to do that
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: and then also to take on these races that are
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: a little bit out there and that are that are
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: different in their nature. So it's it's been fun.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: When were you given the title the Queen of Fame?
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: Was it in your running career and your obstacle racing career.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: That was obstacle racing career. So and I was I
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: was heavily an obstacle racing. I was living in Chicago
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: at the time, actually, So.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: That's what I's gonna say. You began in a very
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: non non mountainous place, So that's what I want to say. However,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: you can do these sports from whatever wherever you are,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: but it's it sure is helpful to have like a
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: major mountain range in your backyard.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: Though, I will I will say I did train and
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: run for mountain races in Chicago. I was very notorious
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: for running up and down parking garages. So there is
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: always like a way to figure it out. People get
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: creative and actually kind of fun.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, I can relate to that so much as a hiker. Yeah,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: you know that that experience. I mean, you know, like
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: half of wild is about how much my feet hurt. Yeah,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: and yet and the other half is like how transformed
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: I am by the beauty.
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: Right, But I also imagine that your feet hurting, you
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: could forget that because of everything that was happening around you.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't know if it's forget, but
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: I know what you're saying. I mean that that certainly
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: makes it worth it. And I think that I really
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: relate to a lot of the ways you talk about
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: pain and suffering because the way I always put it is,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: for me, the body teaches me what my spirit needs
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: to know and a really key point, you know, like
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: on my PCT hike, for example, it was, you know,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: the body teaching me that I that I could go
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: on even when it hurt, and that I could carry
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: the burdens that life had given me. I was strong
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: enough to carry the burdens and I could continue further,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: you know, going forward even when it hurt, hurt. In
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: a podcast, you said, I feel most alive when I'm
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: out in those races and I'm miserable and I'm suffering
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: and everything in my body hurts, Okay, So I related
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: to that, and to me, that is feeling alive. Now.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: You said that in twenty sixteen when everyone was calling
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: you the Quita Paye, the Quina Pain, and I'm curious,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: you know, ten years out from that that that younger
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: woman who said that had your ideas about the role
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: of pain and suffering in your life and in your sport.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Have they changed over time?
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's such a good question, and I think the
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: answer for me is yes, And I mean it's it's complex,
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: and that I do that quote about feeling the most
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: alive out there and through the pain. Yeah, I do
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: feel that way. But I also have learned that my
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: relationship with pain has changed over the years, and that
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: I think for many years I wore pain as like
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: a badge of honor. Is that this is how I'm worthy,
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: Like I can outlast, I can suffer more, I can
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: do harder things, and then that therefore is my value
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: as a human. And you know, it's taken me many
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: year to understand that I don't have to necessarily do
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: that to my body, and that I can also honor
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: myself and respect myself, like through rest and through nourishment
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: and in so many ways where I'm not just almost
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: like self flagellating my body over and over again. That
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: being said, I still it's this fine balance where I
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: love to be out there. I love to do hard things,
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: but I want to do it now in a celebration
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: of what my body can do, as opposed to like
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: beating my body into oblivion and into submission into trying
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: to force it to do things that maybe it's saying no, no, no,
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: like it's time to take a break.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: One of those things you and I both talk and
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: write about this a lot is two things being true
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: at once, and one of them is that you know,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: pain and suffering is a great teacher, and it's part
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: of usually all the best things and most important things
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: we do, whether that be physical pain or kind of
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: like you know, the psychological pain of like writing a book,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: or you know, you know, being brave or whatever that is.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: But you know, with every virtue there is advice. And
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: I think that when we attach too much of our
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: identity like this sense of you know, it is noble
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: to suffer, we forget one of the most important things
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: about being human is that as we also have to
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: be gentle with ourselves, and we have to forgive ourselves,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: and we have to love ourselves. And sometimes that's about tenderness,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: and that is about saying, you know, I'm not going
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: to walk into the fire.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, And that's been really hard for me. And
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: then that has been a transition over the years to
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: try and say okay, no, like I can I can
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: take a pause I can rest, I can know that
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: that's there and that I can go back there and
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: do it. But also so like I can be compassionate
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: with myself, I can be gentle with myself, and that
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: doesn't necessarily take away what a quote unquote badass I
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: am for example, you know, right, that is that is
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: definitely still a practice for me.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: Right, I mean, I think that's what's so interesting when
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: you know your identity is bad ass in it, you know,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: like being the badass what people say about you. And
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: then when you get that, you know, the queen of pain.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: You know, you start to especially if you tend to
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: be and I guess you are to some degree like
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: most women like a people pleaser. We want love, we
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: want affirmation. Right, And you know, I'm curious, is you
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: recently your most recent race I think was the High
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Low one hundred is that correct? Back last August and
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: you placed second overall in your age agent category, like
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: you did really well, and then tell us what happened
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: a few days after that?
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, actually it happened during the race, is right?
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: But yeah, right, but what you discovered? Like right, you know,
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: so during the race, what happened?
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: So it happened.
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, mile thirty, I was going over this mountain pass
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: and just tripped over a rock like so many other times,
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: landed took like a did a big Superman land and
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: hit my knee really hard on a rock.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: And I didn't think too much of it. But it hurt.
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: But we've done that a million times. And it hurt
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: for the next twenty miles or so, but I ran
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: the next seventy miles on it, finished the race, didn't
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: think much of it. And then a few weeks later,
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: when it's still bothering me, I went in to see
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: a doctor and we did MRI and like, oh, you
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: fractured your patella during this, you fractured your patala and
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: you tore the petel a tend in. And it's been
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: over six months and I still haven't run because of
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: this one freak thing that has been kind of cascaded
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: into a lot of other things. And so, which is
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: always a hard thing that happens when you're sidelined from
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: the thing that you love to do, and how you
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: show up than with that.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: So I'm curious about your your relationship to rest. It
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: seems to be rest might be more challenging to you
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: than running one hundred miles up and down mountains? Am
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: I guessing right?
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: Absolutely? Absolutely?
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: I mean I think that you'll You'll tell a lot
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: of endurance athletes and ultrarunners and they'll say that you
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: sort through things, you process things on your runs, like
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: you that is how you clear your mind, that is,
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: And then other people will say, like, it is a
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: coping mechanism, It is an addiction. It is a way
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: for you to escape yourself. It is a way for
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: you to tire yourself out so much that you don't
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: think about all the things that are going on in
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: your head.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: And I think both of those can be true.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: And I do definitely know that I kind of struggle
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: with that balance, and so during times of injury are
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: the times where I really realize, like, oh, I have
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: to work on myself in broader aspects, not just through
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: a single outlet of my sport.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: And what have you been doing in that direction over
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: these past six months? Like what have you learned from rest?
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what have I learned?
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: Oh gosh that I still don't prefer it now. I
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: think for me, what I've really kind of come to
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: is that I've spent so many years of my life
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: with my body functioning and doing amazing things for me,
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: but then getting mad when it would fall apart, when
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: it would break. And I've also spent a lot of
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: time disrespecting my body and probably not feeding it as
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: well as I should have, as you know, not taking
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: care of it as well as I should have, and
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: I may be paying the price now and for me now,
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: what I am learning is how how do exist in
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: a world where my body may not be able to
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: do the things that I wanted to do right now?
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: But how do I still show up?
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: And how do I find joy even when what you
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: want to do isn't like, isn't capable, You're not able
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: to do.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: That right now?
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: And a lot of people will tell you find other
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: hobbies like just and that has never really resonated with me,
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: but it has. What has resonated with me is just
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: sometimes just sitting with it and learning like you're going
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: to be okay, and you can find other ways of
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: showing up, and but those aren't going to come all
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: at once, So it is a daily journey for me.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: I'm struck by how much of your joy, your struggle,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: your life has been about the body, right Obviously we've
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: talked about you as a cham be An obstacle racer
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: and runner and ultra runner, but also as a lot
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: of people know. In twenty nineteen, you publicly shared that
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: you were going into therapy for a long time eating disorder, anorexia,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: and since then you've really been. Can I just say, Amelia,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: I think I wrote to you after you made that
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: public or certainly commented on your post, and just said,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: you know how powerful it was for me and for
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: so many of us to just see how honest and
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: vulnerable and real you were about the truth of what
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: you were experiencing. So thank you for that. And since
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: then you've continued to talk about it, to talk about recovery.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: You've been through therapeutic programs for your eating disorder before,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: and in twenty nineteen you went back, how have you
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: been since then? Yeah?
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: I mean I have adopted the mindset you know. Look,
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: I was diagnosed with anorexia when I was fifteen, so
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: this was not something that was new for me, and
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: I went through cycles of recovery and relapse.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: And when I you know a part of my story
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: that I never.
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: Really told people because I wasn't public about it was
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: that the reason I wasn't an athlete till my mid
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: twenties was I wasn't allowed to be, you know. They
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: thought that there wasn't a way to do exercise and
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: you know, be in recovery from an eating disort at
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: the same time. So so I think that for me,
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: going back into treatment and realizing that I still had
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: things to work on was the first time that I
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: did that as an adult where it came from myself,
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: not from external pressures, not from my parents forcing me
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: as a teenager to you know, to go into recovery.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: But it was from the.
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: Desire of I need and I want to make peace
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: with my body, and I want to honor it, and
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: I want to figure out if my sport, if what
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: I'd love to do is wrapped up in it, or
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: whether I can separate it, or whether or not, and
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: whether I can do what I so love to do
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: and also be in recovery. And so these past six
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: seven years since I, you know, got out of treatment,
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: this past time have been all about being curious about that.
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: And I firmly believe that recovery for me is a
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: lifelong process. I kind of take the notion of from
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: alcohol synonymous that, like it is something that I have
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: to choose every single day of my life. And so
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: it's been going really well. But I know that I
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: have to stay vigilant and I have to be curious,
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: and I have to tune into my body and to
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: honor that, and it's just always going to be piecing
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: that together.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: I'm going to guess. So much of what you've had
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: to learn in recovery is like, you know, you keep
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: using this word honoring, which is I think a wonderful word,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: honoring your body's need to be fed, to be nourished,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: to be cared for. And here we go again with
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: the two things being true at once, because I think
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: about you know, any kind of endurance sport is also
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: you have to do the reverse of that. Right when
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: you're doing a race is twenty four hours, you have
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: to ignore the exhaustion queue, Like the human body wants
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: to sleep at some point in those twenty four hours.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: You have to ignore the that like I want to
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: lie down and eat a big giant chocolate chip cookie queue. Yeah,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: I want to quit Q You know it really is right?
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, so like the internal struggle as you are
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: competing in these kinds of sports is about and I'm
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: curious what you want to say about that, what you
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: have to say about this, It's about ignoring those cues
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: and then to undo and to recover in so many ways,
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: the kind of that you've had to go through. It's
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: it's the opposite of that.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I yeah, you nailed it, and that
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: I think I told a therapist once that I don't
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: know if I've ever had a gut feeling in my
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: entire life, because what I do is I overthink things
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: over and over over again. And so in terms of
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: the thing that made me makes me so great as
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: an athlete, overwriting those cues, just pushing through it in
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: your brain and say nope, nope, not listening, I'm going.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: I'm going.
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: Is then when you try and take that into recovering
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: from an agent disorder and listening to your body, and
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't know what that is. I don't
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: know what listening in my body is. I don't know
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: what listening to my gut is. And how do I
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: go about that? And and it's it's it's it's hard.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think that's probably why it's been such
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: a struggle for me and so many other people is
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: that it's this switch that you have to flip, and
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: it's a practice that you have to do all the time.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really fascinating to me. I'm curious about you know,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: there was this big response in twenty nineteen when you
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: shared when you were so honest and vulnerable with the world,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: and then since then you've continued to talk about it
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: on your Wonderful I subscribe to your Substack newsletter, and
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: you know, I just love your writing and I love
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: your what you have to say about your life because
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: you always are vulnerable and honest, and I think so
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: much about having an eating disorder is about the opposite
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: of that, right, It's about concealing and hiding and lying.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: I'm curious about how it felt for you to tell
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: the truth about yourself and how it's continued to feel
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: over time.
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: I think the thing that I struggled with the most
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: was I felt this cognitive dissonance between how I felt
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: the world saw me, as you said, like the Queen
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: of Pain, and then how I felt internally, which was
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: this broken human being, that there was something fundamentally wrong
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: with me because I wasn't strong enough to get over
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: an eating disorder on my own. That was what I
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: was telling myself internally, and there was so much shame
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: in that. There was so much shame in hiding a secret.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: There was so much shame in feeling like I couldn't
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: let people see who I really was out of fear
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: of them losing respect for me or not believing that
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: I was the strong female they all thought I was.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: And so I think that.
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: It was so freeing for me because for the first
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: time I felt like what I was feeling on the
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: inside was also what I was letting the world into.
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: And then that was where I could really be my
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: authentic self, Like that was the moment where I gave
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: myself permission to show up in the world as how
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: I actually felt and who I actually was.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: That is so powerful and beautiful, and I know it
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: to be true. I Mean, one of the things that
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: I've really learned in my work as Dear Sugar, you know,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: being on the other end of so many people writing
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: and asking for advice, is I've realized that, you know,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: one of the core truths of I think emotional suffering
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: is exactly what you just said. When when what you're
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: showing on the outside is in contradiction to what's on
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: the inside, right, and that's the fast track to suffering.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: And we're so afraid of telling the truth for the
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: reasons that you cite. I mean, we feel ashamed of
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: who we are. We feel like people won't love us
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: if we show them who we are, and it seems
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: like the scariest thing ever to tell the truth. And
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: yet every time people tell the truth about who they are,
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: what happens is they feel free. Yeah, and and often,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: you know, often they're loved, right. I mean, I'm not
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: saying that you. I mean, I'm sure like anyone in
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: the public eye, you know, you receive negative feedback. And
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: but you know what I observed, like, like I said,
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: people all over the place were like, thank you, right,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: thank you for telling your story, and they continue to
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: say that to you.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and I think that I love it
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: when other people share because you also then say, we all,
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: we all are flawed humans.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: It's just a nature of being human.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: And when you see somebody who seems like they have
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: it all together and that they have everything figured out, I'm.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Like, You're like, well, what's wrong with me?
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: You almost like don't, and then you're like, oh, that
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: person struggles as well and relate. That is how we
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: relate as humans, and that is how we form connection
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: as humans with that vulnerability and that you know, me
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: being open, me being vulnerable allowed me to let people
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: in in my life and to actually have the community
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: that I really wanted. I just didn't know how to
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: go about doing it other than listing all of my
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: accolades and hoping that people would just respect me for
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: winning races.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: Why do you think you chose that? I mean, why
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: at that moment in your life do you think you
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: felt ready to do both things? You know, go back
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: into a therapeutic program, into recovery and tell the truth
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: about it. Was it that you were just old enough
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: by that point and you secure enough in who you were?
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Or why that moment?
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: I think that for one point, I was starting to
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: hit a lot of injuries and a lot of things
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: that were coming from just not feeling myself properly, and
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: so I wasn't able to compete, you know, I was.
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: I was constantly fighting something or another. And I also
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: think at that point I just had been through enough press.
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: I had had enough times where I'd been on podcasts
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: or you know, written in books, and then feeling like
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: I there was this part of me that just didn't
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: sit right with me, and I find they got to
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: a point where I was like, no, I'm not going
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: to First of all, I'm not going to keep treating
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: my body like this. There has to be a different
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: way of existing because what I am doing isn't working,
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: you know, like you talk about just this vicious cycle
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: of doing the same things over and over again and
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: expecting different results. So I finally was like, no, I'm
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: I'm putting that aside, and then also having enough confidence
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: I think in myself that this hasn't worked, so let's
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: try something new. I don't know what's on on the
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: other side, but I have to at least make that
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: leap and figure that out.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Well done, Well done. So, speaking of Dear Sugar, I
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: was wondering, Amelia, would you I have a Dear Sugar letter,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: and I would love for you to help me answer
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: it and offer this letter writer some advice.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: I would be honored.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Yay, Okay, I'll read the letter and then we can
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: chat about it, and then I have more to ask
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: you about about your life. But let's just take us
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: little since we're on the subject, because you'll see that
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: this letter has some connections. Dear Sugar, my question is
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: about how to be a good friend to someone who
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: is going through a difficult thing, but it's also about
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: the larger question of how we as women discuss body
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: issues without triggering or shaming each other. I'll call my
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: friend Jane. We're both women in our mid thirties, and
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: we've been good friends since college. Jane is successful, fun,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: kind hearted, and all around wonderful. Over the years, I've
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: been aware that she has struggled with anxiety, but a
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: few months ago she told me that her primary struggle
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: is bolimia, which began when she was a teenager. She's
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: currently engaged in a therapeutic program, and she decided to
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: tell me about it as a part of her recovery
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: and also because we're close. We had a great talk
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: about it at the time, but it hasn't come up
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: since then, perhaps partially because I find myself uncertain about
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: how exactly to be supportive of her. I don't know
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: if I should bring up the topic and ask about
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: how her therapy is going, or if that would be
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: rude or offensive. I worry that by not mentioning it,
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: I'm sending the message that the subject is shameful. But
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: I also worry about offending her if I bring it up,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: because because perhaps she doesn't want to discuss it with me.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: I truly want Jane to know I'm there for her,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: but I don't want to invade her privacy. My awkwardness
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: about this is exacerbated by another thing. While my friend
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: is healing her body, I'm healing mine too, though in
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: a different way. After decades of struggling with obesity and
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: yo yo diets that never ultimately worked, I've received treatment
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: that has utterly changed my life. I'm taking Zepbound, which
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: is a GLP one GP medication. Over the past six months,
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: I've lost about fifty pounds. I hope to lose fifty
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: more in the months ahead. But even if I didn't
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: lose another pound, this medication has already greatly improved my health.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: I'm no longer pre diabetic, My once very high cholesterol
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: levels are now approaching normal, and I feel better than
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: I have in a long time, which is allowing me
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: to exercise and generally be more physically active than I
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: have been when I was at a higher weight. I'm
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: at the point that people are noticing my weight loss,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: and last week it was a subject of discussion at
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: a dinner with girlfriends that Jane and I both attended,
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: As our mutual friends expressed their support and asked me
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: for details about my weight loss. I found myself clamming
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: up for fear of saying the wrong thing in front
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: of Jane. I like being an open book about being
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: on this medication because it has helped me so much,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: and I know other people who have chronic obesity can
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: benefit from it. But I'm also aware of how messed
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: up our culture is about weight and weight loss and
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: women's bodies. I want to share my story of regaining
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: my metabolic health, and yet I don't want to trigger
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Jane or anyone for that matter. What are your thoughts
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: on this? How do we find our way through this
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: as women? How do we talk about our bodies without
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: either shaming or silencing each other? It seems like such
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: a complex and sensitive subject that I find myself tongue tied.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Do you have any advice for me? Thanks? Signed good friend? Wow?
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: Huh, I mean it makes me kind of tear up
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: just because it's so beautiful and it's so thoughtful and
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: most people wouldn't ever think of that. Ah, I love it.
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: She sounds like an amazing friend, first of all, So
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: she does.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's what I mean, just even like you said,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: most of us are in our own little bodies, right,
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: and we're like and then we forget how And she
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: says it so well. It is so damn complicated. I mean,
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: we could spend a week talking about the number that's
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: been done on us as girls and women and our
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: bodies and men too. I'll include men in that. You know,
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: the there's and it's on every end of the spectrum.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: It's so complicated, and I think I love that this
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: letter brings in I think something that's very much in
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: the conversation now to this other layer where people with
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: obesity are, you know, having lots of experiences with these
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: medications that are really effective in ways that they haven't
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: been in the past. And so we're talking a lot
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: about bodies lately in a public way. I mean, we've
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: always done that. I bet I've seen it ramp up
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: and so wow, okay, so.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, there's so many there's so many much there,
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: and I think I think first of all, and this
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: is what I've always said because I at least from
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: a perspective of support, because people always when I first
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: opened up, I think I then felt, oh, people are
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: going to feel awkward because they don't know what to
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: say or do or how to be around me. And
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: the friends that I appreciated the most were the ones
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: who are like, Hey, I've been thinking about what you said,
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: and I just want to let you know I'm here
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: for you, Like I don't want to pressure you. You
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: don't have to talk about it, and I will follow
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: your lead. But if it ever feels helpful to talk
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: like I am here, I want you to know that
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: because I do believe she said in there, like how
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: do I I feel like I don't want to assume
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: she doesn't want to talk about I don't want her
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: to think that I'm minimizing it, but also just to
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: omit like, hey, I'm a little bit awkward and I
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: don't know how to approach this is one of like
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: the best ways that I know how to break that
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: kind of that kind of wall there, you know. But
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: then I also think it's really important and it's beautiful
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: that she and herself The writer also wants to honor
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: her own journey. And I know for me, a lot
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: of people were always afraid like, oh, I don't want
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: to trigger you. I don't want to trigger you, and
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: or we've had in our society that oh, everything needs
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: a trigger warning, like we have to.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: We've overcorrected for that.
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: And I think the number one thing that I would
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: say is like, you know you are responsible. I myself am.
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: I'm responsible for being thoughtful. I am, but I'm not
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: responsible for preventing all discomfort. And so there are going
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: to be situations where you know, like both you and
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: your friend have entirely different body journeys and that's okay,
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: and we need to embrace that and that you know,
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: she can celebrate your journey and what you're doing for
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: your health, and you can also support and celebrate her
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: journey and what she's doing for her health.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: And that's going to look different.
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: And I think as women, where we come together is
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: where we want to admit that this is awkward, we
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: but we're willing to learn, and two that we're there
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: to support and celebrate each other. And that's not like
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: your story versus my story.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: And I think it's okay to say to actually just
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: say to the friend to say to Jane what she
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: said does, which is, you know, I'm losing weight and
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited about that and I feel great about
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: it and I want to talk about it, and I
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: also don't want to upset you, and I don't know
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: what to ask you, and so can we like just like,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: you know, what, what do you want me to do
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: on this subject? Like do you want to be Jane?
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Do you want to be the friend who I don't
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: discuss uh this journey with which you know, that's totally
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: fine too, Like baby Jane will say, you know, I'm
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: so happy for you, but yeah, this isn't something I
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: want to really talk about. You know, I'm not the
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: friend for you to talk to me, you know, to
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: talk about this. Or maybe Jane will say, no, I
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: feel weird when you actually keep yourself from me, just
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: because I've shared with you my own struggles, you know,
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: and I think that that you know, in any in
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: any relationship you know that we have, whether it's with
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: an intimate partner or a friend or family members, the
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: more we can we can actually listen to each other,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: because that's you know, enter with curiosity. How how would
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: you like me, Amelia to talk to you about your recovery?
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: You know, And and then you get to set your boundaries,
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: you get to state your wishes and I and I
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: think that is especially so fascinating when it comes to
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: body issues, because the body is a strangely public place,
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean? I mean And I can
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: say this myself as somebody, you know, I relate. I
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: relate a lot to good friend. I have gotten up
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: and I've I've lost and gained weight in my adult
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: life significantly. I've been in the obese. I've been obese,
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: I've been healthy weight, I've been you know, you know,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: I've been in all the ranges, and at every step
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: of the way people have commented about my weight. I
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: have said sometimes things that they without were compliments and were,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: and sometimes things that they knew were insults and were
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: and hurt. And I will say that, you know, learning
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: how to set your boundaries about like how you you know,
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: how people get to talk to you about your body
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: is really, you know, is really important. I've said to
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: my friends I've I've lost weight, and I've said to
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: my friend, you know, I've said, I'm I like it
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: when you say I look great. I don't want to,
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: you know, go like deep into the you know, the
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: the nitty gritty about like how many pounds have you
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: lost or you know, how many pounds have you gay
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: did you gain? You know, and you get to set
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: those parameters. When it comes to women and their bodies,
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: it's telling the truth about them and being able to
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: tell an individual truth like here's what I'm comfortable with it,
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: and here's how i want to talk about it.
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: M Yeah, absolutely, And I think that, you know, everybody
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: has the right to that. And I think consent is
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: so important too, and then just being like do you
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: want to talk about this? Is this okay? If I
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: you know, and good friend asking Jane like or is
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: this something that is best left for somebody else? And
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: that consent and then that boundary and then not. And
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: I have an issue with this because if I set
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: a boundary, then I feel guilty for setting a boundary
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, oh no, I'm not so I think
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: that all. So just normalizing that as well, and then
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: understanding that we don't have to be everything to everyone
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: as friends, you know, sometimes is that like maybe this
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: is my friend that I talked to my glp onet
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: or like about that with and then this is my
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: friend that I you know otherwise, but you don't have
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: to make those assumptions, like just like the consent part,
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: ask and figure that out. And then also, as you said,
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: drawing boundaries on what on what is prefable, what is
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: not comfortable. I know, you know when I was younger
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: and I was going when I would gain weight, when
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: I was getting into a healthier body, and people would
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: say you look so healthy as like a pseudonym for oh,
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: you've gained weight, And I remember just telling my family
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: members just please, just I.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: Don't want any comments.
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: I don't want any comments, even if you think it's
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: a compliment. It would be great just to There's so
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: many more and other interesting things for me to talk
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: about than wait, but that's for me personally, as somebody
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: else might it might be great. So it's just knowing
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: that person and asking those questions and not being afraid
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: to answer ask those questions.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's it's a generational thing too, like
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: when I was growing up. I mean, first of all,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: just really like you know, I'm fifty seven, so I
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: was right there in that like if you were like
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: a size six. You know, in Hollywood you were playing
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: the like the fat girl.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: In the movie. Yeah.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, I can't believe sometimes the stuff that we
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: live through, you know. I mean, it was just unbelievably terrible,
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: you know, and and and I think that it led
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: to so much pain and suffering for so many of us.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: That has taken you know, I can speak for myself.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: It's taken years for me to undo it. And I still,
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: you know, like I've had to get out of my brain.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: Like the highest compliment is like, oh my god, you
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: look so thin, you know. And what's been inspiring is
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: to me, first of all, to see so many athletes
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: and people of all different shapes and sizes, you know,
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: at the top of their game and the body positivity movement,
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: but also this next generation. Some of the work that
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: we uh you know, have done and trying to undo
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: some of these narratives, you know, have really changed the
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: next generation. My daughter's twenty, and she's just like, yeah,
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: don't you know, my friends and I don't talk about weight.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: We don't talk to each other about that at all,
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: Just like, don't ever, don't even She's just like, don't
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: even bring that subject up. You know I like that. Yeah,
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: you know, I was like, I can I'm allowed to
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: say like you look, you look pretty, or I like
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: your sweater or but I you know, there's no conversation
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: about the body. Yeah, and I think that's a pretty
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: cool way. And so maybe another way to think about
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: this good friend went talking to Jane and about her
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: and also talking to your friends about yourself. It's like,
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: remember that we're we're not we're not talking about weight
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: not We're not we're talking about health. We're talking about
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: how you feel inside of yourself. Like I love that
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: part of the letter where she's like, I can exercise now,
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: I feel better than I have. You know, my blood
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: work is good. Talk about that, you know. And I
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: think that that reframes this conversation in a way that
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: isn't about shame, but that's about celebration. Yeah.
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, you know, kind of focusing on the function aspect
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: the way you feel and not and not numbers, and
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: that you know that can go in so many ways.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: So yeah, well we wish you good luck, good friends.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: You are a good friend. You are very friend.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, use your words, be honest and vulnerable, be you know,
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: take Amelia as your as your example and just tell
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: the truth about how you're feeling and see what Jane says.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: I think good things come from that. Yeah, so Amelia
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: you are are you like you're forty two?
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: Now?
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: Is that right you?
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: Yep? And I read I think on your on your
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: substack which was the name of.
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: An again, uh race if so loquitur, which is a
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: play on the legal phrase just the thing speaks for itself,
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: which is but yes.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, I haven't even mentioned okay, just meanwhile, meanwhile,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: dear listeners, as Amilia is burning up the earth with
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: like running seven thousand million miles while carrying like buckets
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: of seand or whatever. She's like an attorney full time.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: Uh you work for Apple still I do?
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, so she actually has a real job, a real
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: big job. But this is this is a show about sports,
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: and we're not going to talk about that. But anyway,
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: that's amazing. I do want to actually ask you about
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: like how the heck that you were able to do
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: all that training walls of working full time. But let's
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: just let's just I wanted to ask you. Yeah, I
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: don't want to be derailed you. You are moving into
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: middle age and the body changes in middle age, and
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: I read on your on your newsletter that you felt like, uh,
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: that maybe your best athletic days were behind you. Now.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: I think after you wrote that, then you went on
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: to like, you know, kill it, the and the the yeah,
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: yeah I love that. Yeah, love some and you know,
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: and also kill your patella. But anyway, that's you know,
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: we've already covered that. But like, do you still feel that?
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: And what does that mean to you?
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: What does that?
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: What does that feel like?
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: I think it's how you define best.
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: Like so many things in life, in terms of results,
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: probably me winning as many races as I used to do,
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: for all intents and purposes, it's probably behind me. You know,
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: there are faster people, there are younger people, et cetera.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: But I also look.
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: Now that I run an I race for reasons that
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: are internally motivated. They're not motivated externally by praise or
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: by or by sponsors, and so they it comes from
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: a place for me of just fulfillment and doing what
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: I love to do. And so I think if you
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: define best in that regard, then I do think that
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: my best days can still be ahead of me. It's
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: just all all in in the definition there.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: Over the years, how have your feelings about being a
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: competitor changed.
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: I don't think I'm ever going to get rid of
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: the competitive drive. I mean, it's just it's intrinsic to
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: my nature. But I do think that I have more
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: perspective now, and I think that just comes with age.
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: And I do think now that I during a race,
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: if I was driven like must win, must win, must win,
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: and just head down, not looking around, not taking in
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: my surroundings, not stopping to chat with people at aid stations,
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: It's just it's a type of experience. It's just a
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: different experience. And now I just allow myself a little
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: bit more leeway to embrace, like the full aspect of racing,
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: not just must win sole goal is to win this race.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: Hmm. In some ways that is I think too, Like
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: I love this idea of you in the midst of
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: a really hard race, you know, stopping to smell the rocism.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: Yet you know, I in a metaphorical sense, I read
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: that you pick a word for every year, and twenty
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: twenty six year word is now tell us about that?
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think I have spent so much
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: of my life either self flagellating over mistakes or decisions
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: I've made in the past that I believe were the
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: wrong decisions. Or I have been anxious and worried and
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: fearful of the future of what is to come. And
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: so I've been stuck in either one of those. And
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: what I'm really trying to do this year is like
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: bring myself back to like the one place where I'm
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: free of those judgments, of the self flagellation, of the anxiety,
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: And that is what am I doing in this moment?
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: What am I doing like to be totally present in
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: this moment? And that is where I've like fat where
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: you find peace and so and especially when that now,
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: when you're present isn't necessarily what you want. Like if
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: I had my drothers, I'd be out there running, you know,
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: a race next weekend, but I can't. So how do
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: I find joy and meaning and purpose when your reality
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: in this moment isn't necessarily what you would prefer? And
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: so that's kind of the idea of now for me.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: And And how's it, God, I mean, how do you
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: find that we need we need some tips?
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: I shockingly it's been I mean, it's been ups and downs,
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: like everything, but I have really taken a a step
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: towards a lot of just like noticing. So I'm deep
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: a lot, Like a lot of people, I'm trying to
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: unplug from technology as much as possible, and like I'll
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: go for a walk. I can't run right now, but
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: I'll go for a walk without headphones. I normally just
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: like listen to a podcast or distract myself or listen
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: to music and just notice the little things, notice like
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: the like you know, the leaves on the trail, and
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: just bringing myself back to what I am doing in
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: that moment. For some reason, I don't know what it is,
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: but for some reason that like everything nervous system just
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: comes down, comes down, and I'm like, this is all
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: that matters right now, you know.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: And that's been very helpful to me.
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: And then also just trying to figure out trying different
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: things to see like what does make me kind of
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: come alive? What lights my fire? Where can I give
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: back in other areas of my life? Where can I
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: find meaning and purpose? And for me that's been recently
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: like doing pro bono work and like with certain legal causes,
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: you know, given like current administration and things like that,
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: and so I've been I've been exploring that realm, so
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: learning these things outside of sport, which maybe I should
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: have done when I was in my twenties, and so
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: I was a little bit more well rounded. But hey,
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: never too late to start, never too late to get round.
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah that is for sure.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what is the best advice you've ever received? And
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: then I'm going to ask you the worst advice?
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: Ah, Okay, the best advice I've ever received?
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: I have two different ones.
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: First of all, it's no one cares as much as
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: you do, and or kind of or just no one cares.
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: In terms of I always used to worry that people
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: were spending all their time like judging me or talking
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: about me, or if I didn't win a race, et cetera,
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: et cetera, like oh what would they think of me?
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: And then I'm like, no one is sitting around the
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: dinner somebody said to me once, nobody is sitting around
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: the dinner table talking about you, like they're talking about themselves.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: They're they're wrapped up in themselves.
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: And so whenever anything felt like whenever I felt like
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: something was the end of the world in the biggest deal,
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: it helped me put it into context and being like,
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not saying that I'm not important, because
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: I am important, but like, it's we all have our stuff,
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: and so just to keep things in that perspective, and
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: I think that has been helpful for me if I
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: start a spiral in that regard. And I think the
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: other piece is that you can't control how other people
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: show up in the world. And so that's about me
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: taking personal responsibility for how I show up. But I
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: can't control other people's reactions to me as.
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: Much as I would like to.
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: It's they're having their own internal experiences and trying to
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: do that silly making of trying to get everybody to
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: like you or respond to you in the right way
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: is just never going to work. So there's two pieces.
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: Probably the worst advice I ever got was well, just
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: be happy, just choose to be happy, And it's kind
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: of like that, and I used to try and do this.
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: I was like, well, I can like out gratitude grief,
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: you know, or if I was upset over something and
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: be like, I'm just going to choose to be happy
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: right now. But I've learned so much that like, you
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: can't bypast grief, you know, there's so many great authors
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: out there who've done or so much work around grief,
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: but in anything in life, and that you have to
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: like sit with it and honor that and respect that
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: to be able to move past it, as opposed to
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: being like, you know what, No, I'm just gonna be
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: happy all the time. I'm just gonna be happy, because
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: then once again your internal self and your external self
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: are in a weird dissonance.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're lying, You're lying. Yeah, Yeah, I mean I do.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: I think the I think the path to happiness is
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: to say I'm suffering, and I will suffer and I
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: can keep going, right. I mean, it's telling the truth
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: about who you are. It's a different maybe it's a
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: different kind of happiness. It's not that tearful, exuberant you know,
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: smile always, but that at least that profound sense of
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: oneness with self and the truth. Yeah, okay, Emilia, it
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: has been such a pleasure to talk to you. You're
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: not off the hook yet. I have one more question,
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: but I just wanted to say before I ask you,
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: just like, really, just how touched and moved I am
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: by everything you said today, and thank you for helping
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: me answer that wonderful letter. So you're the Queen of pain.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: We know that that's been well established. If you got
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: to be the queen of something else, what would it be?
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: You get to pick. As the Queen of Pain, you
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: have the power to pick whatever queendom you like. What
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: would you be? Queen of.
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: Pop tarts? Answer?
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: Is that job already taken pop tarts? No?
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: I uh, it's a long running joke, right why I
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: tried forever to get a Kellogg sponsorship.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, wait, you don't have You never got a Kellogg
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: sponsorship because like, like I haven't even thought about pop tarts,
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: you know, for thirty years, except for you always mentioning.
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: Them so exactly exactly, And I know.
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, if they're listening, they need to just sponsor not
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: only this podcast, but all the stuff that you're doing too.
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: No, but if I also, it's especially on brand because
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: you're resting right now, and I'm a better thing to
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: do during rest than to eat pop tart pop tart
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: after pop tart, right.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: I know, I know.
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: But if I was to give a serious answer, I
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: would say I would love to be the Queen of self,
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: compassion and forgiveness. So that is something that has been
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: a struggle for me, and uh, but it's so rich
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: when I can get there and and.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: So that's there's there's my new there's my new goal.
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I'll be rooting you on as you as
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: you climb that mountain to self, compassion and forgiveness. That
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: is a hard path to walk, but it's a worthy
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: one and I know you're going to get there. Dear Heart,
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on mind Over Mountain.
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: It's been so fun to talk to you. Thank you
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: as well, thanks for listening. If you'd like to submit
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: a letter seeking advice, please send it to me at
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: Deardearsugar at gmail dot com and don't forget to rate,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: review and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Happy trails,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: and I'll see you next week. Minover Mountain with Cheryl
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: Strade is an iHeart women's sports production produced by Britney
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: Brown and Rodney Brown of Barbara Jean Productions. Supervising producer
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: is Kaylin West at REALM. Associate producer Amaya Brathwaite. Our
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: executive producers are Molly Barton, Jerry Carreta, Grace Fuz and
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: Jesse Katz. Our theme song is composed by Gramoscope Music.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: your podcasts, Happy trails, and I'll see you next week.