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Defeating Atheist Claims of Biblical Contradictions (part 2) · Relish: a Christian podcast

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You're listening to thursday mornings with alex and don
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team ad don is a pastor with 40
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years experience and alex is just as curious as you are we look at the most
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important and interesting questions about the bible and christian faith so let's
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talk about it pastor don alex how you doing doing all right we just want to
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take a moment in the midst of all the the different podcasts
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to to raise up the fact that when we
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are putting these podcasts together i come into
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it very cold yeah and so some of
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our answers come right off the cuff i mean seriously off
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the cuff and we appreciate all the
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comments that are coming in in this series of of
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videos so keep them coming we want to
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keep the conversation happening and if we
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need to warm up don to the conversation we can
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do that yeah and i could do more study ahead of time but
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in this context we we come to a
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cold right right i think we didn't we didn't
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mention that on the part one of the defeating atheist claims of biblical contradictions
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but we did obviously notice that there was a ton of views on it and even more
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comments and it's obviously something that is a topic that has a considerable
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miserable battleground on it.
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And we're thankful for most of the comments.
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Obviously, some of them are just digs and trolls in there, but there are a handful
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of them that did point out some things.
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Like, for one was just how I read the atheist intro to it.
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Okay, that one was a little, I did read it in a snarky way. That probably wasn't necessary.
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Right. But we want to be part of the conversation. Yes. And we invite your comments,
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and we are not setting them aside.
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We're going to take them seriously and look through them, and they could create
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further content. Right.
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And so we're sticking this piece in here because there's two more episodes.
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There's two more parts to this defeating atheist claims of biblical contradiction.
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That are already recorded. They're already recorded.
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And so we just didn't want you guys to think that we weren't addressing some
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of the problems you might have had with...
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How we were going about it. And so we're going to continue with what we do already
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have videoed, but we will get to these things over the course of time.
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Yep. Right? That's exactly right.
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So enjoy the part two of this series and yeah, keep the questions coming and
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the comments coming and we'll get to those.
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And we thank you for them. Yes, thanks. All right, enjoy.
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Pass it on. Good morning, Alex. You're still wearing the same thing you were
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wearing last week. Yeah.
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Yeah, I know. So it's a good thing we're in a room, you know,
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apart from the rest of everybody else.
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I know, I might need to air it out. We're getting a little stinky in here. It is a little toasty.
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And again, we're continuing with this argument made by atheists that there are definitely.
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Like obvious contradictions here in the Bible.
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And the claim is that if this
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is the inerrant word of god without
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error then there should not be contradictions which is a fair argument to make
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it's fair argument so one of the interesting things here though is that the
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either they're claiming that this is these are proof these are true that that
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what they're saying is inerrant and that makes the authority of god the bible worthless.
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Yeah. Trying to erode the authority of the Bible. Yeah. Yeah.
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And they make that claim.
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The ones that we had done before, you know, it was kind of a schlog.
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Mm-hmm. It was rough to get through.
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Because I feel like we had to do, we were trying to do a lot to prove.
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But I feel like any sort of reasonable doubt here is sufficient evidence.
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And that's not me brushing off.
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Mm-hmm. But. Right. But it was really hard to see where they were going. Yeah.
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And then that is, that is a part. Okay. So, so if they're just laying them out
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there and saying, these are what they are.
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Right. And you just swallow that hook, line, and sinker without any testing
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of it, then it looks like evidence.
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When you get into it, then it's not near as evident that it's evidence. Right.
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And it brings me back to that passage in Matthew where it says,
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judge not lest you be judged.
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And then we kind of stop there because that's a nice thing saying,
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you know, leave me alone. I'll make my own decision, but do not cast pearls before swine.
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And some of these I feel are like... Dig that plank out of your eye.
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Yeah, that kind of a thing where it's, you know, unless you're really diving into this,
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really putting your faith in God to show you what the message says,
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and that's one of the most beautiful things I think the Bible is,
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is that it is such a, it's so beautifully complex.
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It is. So, let's get into the complexity. I already read through this next one
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here, and this one will be easy.
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This one's, there's a contradiction on personal injury. The first one is from
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Exodus 21, 23 through 25. You've probably all heard this one.
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Thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth,
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hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
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And in Matthew 5, verse 39, ye resist not evil, but whoever shall smite thee
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on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
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And what's interesting is in Matthew, Jesus says, you heard an eye for an eye
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and a tooth for a tooth, but I say unto you.
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Yeah, it is interesting. Yeah, they could have just had the first part of that verse as it, right?
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Right, could have brought it. So yeah, Jesus is there blatantly correcting this. Why?
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Is he correcting it or is he raising the bar?
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See, I see it as he's correcting the notion or the correcting how it is being attributed.
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Okay, so we've got Exodus basically laying out for people who are grabbing hold
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of freedom a moral construct.
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By which they're to live in the light of who God is.
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And it's a good construct. Yeah.
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But as we look into Matthew chapter five, we look at all those and we say,
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wait a minute, what's he doing here?
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And he's raising the bar on each one of those from the good moral construct
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of the Old Testament to a new construct when he says, but I say unto you.
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So it's not a contradiction. Confliction.
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It's an escalation. Okay.
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It's an amplification of the original concept into what God wants it to be.
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So then you've heard it said, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth,
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but I used to tell you don't resist the evil person.
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The one who strikes you on the right cheek turned him the other also.
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Now notice what he's done before that, because when he talks about murder,
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you've heard it said, don't murder.
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Anyone who murders is subject to judgment. But I tell you, anyone who's angry has already murdered.
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And he talks about adultery. You've heard it said that you shall not commit adultery.
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But I tell anyone of you who looks at a woman lustfully, you've already committed
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adultery in your heart, raising the bar.
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Anyone who divorces must give her a certificate of divorce.
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But I tell you, anyone who divorces a wife except for marital unfaithfulness
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causes her to become an adulteress raises
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the bar oh it's the same way and and and
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so this is jesus raising the bar doesn't say
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the old concept is dead altogether but my
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people who i'm calling out says jesus
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i don't want you to do tooth for tooth eye for
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an eye i want you to turn the other the cheek okay okay i think there's a lot
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more context to that turning the other cheek thing and i think we talked about
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it in the second or third hillcrest episode when we talked about non-aggression
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principle or non-violence principle one of those two because they are different.
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Where this is a legalistic argument that he's making as far as the turning the other cheek.
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And I believe this is one of those things where it's, you know,
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if someone strikes you on your right cheek. Oh, yes. You're hitting me on my right cheek.
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You're hitting me with your, I forget how exactly this was described.
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So is it always the back of the hand? Back of the hand. It's always the back
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of the hand. So it would be your right hand.
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And that's how someone would hit somebody. Sorry, I wasn't sitting next to my
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wife. Anyway, that's how someone would strike a inferior, like a slave or a subordinate.
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But if you turn to him the other cheek, then you have to use your front of your
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hand, which would make them an equal, or you'd have to change hands,
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which they would not have done because that is an unclean hand.
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That's an unclean hand. And they would be committing a whole different other
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crime for striking someone with an unclean hand. Yeah.
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So there was part of it where I kind of got the impression, and I think we talked
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about this too, and maybe you can correct me.
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Is that the context was that it wasn't to give them an opportunity to hit you
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again, commit the act again.
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Rather, it was a challenge of authority. A challenge of authority.
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Right. Because even Jesus didn't turn the other cheek when he was in front of the...
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Was it Pilate or was it... That was in front of the chief priests and Sadducees.
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The chief priests where one of the guards hit him and he turned and said,
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not here's the other cheek, but what authority do you have to do that?
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Under what law are you allowed to do that?
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That would definitely contradict this passage here, as far as Jesus says,
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turn the other cheek, and then he didn't, unless you understand why he's saying
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it that way. The authority.
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So there's multiple different ways to attack that one, I think, right?
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Do we do it? Okay. So, the next one. Oh, see, we know this one,
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too. We've talked about this one, too. Circumcision.
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This is my covenant. This is from Genesis 17, chapter 17, verse 10.
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This is my covenant, which ye shall keep between me and you, and thy seed after thee.
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Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
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And then in Galatians, chapter 5, verse 2. If ye be circumcised,
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Christ shall profit you nothing.
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Thing oh paul yes
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yeah so is that a
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contradiction though i don't understand how someone reads that
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and says it's contradiction yeah yeah i
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guess no it is a very blatant contradiction blatant contradiction
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in word right but if you understand what
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paul's saying is you know depends on what
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you do on your flesh well that's not really circumcision right is
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your heart circumcised and that's that's where paul would
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be headed so yeah without context on
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that one you could say oh well yeah as far as black and
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white those are contradictions when you understand paul's
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context of those words then you realize there isn't any contradiction right
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agreed yeah one of them's a symbolic thing that was done in the old testament
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to represent something much like a you know what kind of a baptism do you want
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do you want to sprinkle immersion or something does it have That idea is that
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it's a covenant with God and do it in front of others, right? Right.
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And not only that, but even Timothy did the same thing, preached.
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Hey, his is a direct contradiction because he did one thing,
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said one thing, and then did the other, right?
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Right. But for a good reason, at least.
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Yeah. Yeah, I would say for a good reason. Interesting that,
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isn't it Timothy that Paul circumcised in chapter 15 of Acts? Right.
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Because he was going to, yeah. Yeah, we've talked about that before,
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where it's just like, okay, so that was what we chalked that up to, just public relations.
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Well, you're going into this community. You know that's getting right gritty
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for public relations. Oh, boy.
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I've never asked to do anything quite like that.
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No. All right. The next one, I don't know much about this topic, but it's incest.
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So Deuteronomy chapter 27, verse 22. 2.
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Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father,
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or the daughter of his mother. Correct.
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And then Leviticus chapter 20, verse 17. And if a man shall take his sister,
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his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, it is a wicked thing.
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Genesis chapter 20, verse 11 through 12. But what was God's reaction to Abraham,
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who married his sister, his father's daughter.
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And then in Genesis 17, 15 through 16, it says, And God said unto Abraham,
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As for Sarah thy wife, I bless her, and give thee a son also of her.
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Okay, where's the contradiction? Yeah. Because they're trying to say that there was a...
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They're trying to say Abraham and Sarah are brother and sister.
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Right. And they're cousins. Okay.
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So if they haven't got that right, it's hard to figure out what they're talking about.
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Yeah, because that's not the daughter of a mother or a father.
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So the incest one, I don't get where they're coming from.
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Well, it says... And it was sister in the...
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Since we're brothers and sisters in Christ, rather than actual blood sister,
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because Sarah wasn't a blood sister.
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Oh, well, find me Genesis 20, 11 through 22, Genesis, because this is in parentheses.
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It says, but what was God's reaction to Abraham, comma, who married his sister,
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hyphen, his father's daughter, question mark.
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That's the part of it i think is the which is 2011 through 12 surely there's
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no fear of god in this place and they will kill me because of my wife because
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she is really my sister the daughter of my father through though not through
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my mother and she became my wife so he's saying there but,
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when we go back to when he found sarah that wasn't the case well it says there
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in 12 besides she She really is my sister, the daughter of my father,
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though not of my mother, and she became my wife.
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So, that's in 12. Besides, she really is my sister, the daughter of my father,
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though not of my mother, and she became my wife. Genesis 12, 12.
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So, Don's flipping back. He's finding a reference here. 12, 12.
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Egyptians say, this is my wife. And they go, say.
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Okay. So, the emphasis is to say you are my sister.
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Not that she is his sister. Explain that a little bit.
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But when they went to Egypt in chapter 12 of Genesis, when Abraham went to Egypt,
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he told Sarah to claim she was his sister.
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Okay. so that they would not kill him to get her because she was actually his wife. Okay.
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And then our life will be spared.
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And this is the same... Are they speaking to the same... This is the same situation.
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I'm not sure where the contradiction is.
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Okay. He's basically passing his wife off as his sister so that they won't kill
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him to get his wife. Okay.
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So it's the same situation in both places. Okay.
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I was confused with that because i i was under the same assumption so yeah and
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and if yeah there there you go again if people don't understand the context
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right you could make those assumptions where did you look back to well i i will
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look back to 12 12 and 12 12 okay where it gives the gives the first one,
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they will kill me but will let you live
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say you are my sister so that i will be treated well
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for your sake and my life will be spared because
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of you there you go okay yeah and
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this is same situation all right in in 20 yep yep
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all right so the next one we got is trusting god this is from proverbs chapter
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12 verse 2 a good man attaineth favor of the lord okay and then this next one
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is job chapter 2 verse 3 this is a long verse now consider the case of job after
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commissioning Satan to ruin Job financially and to slaughter his shepherds and
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children to win a petty bet with Satan.
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God asked Satan, oh, so that was their context, right?
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Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth,
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a perfect and upright man, one that feareth God, and, oh my goodness, what's that word?
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Escheweth. Escheweth, evil, thank you. And still he holdeth fast his integrity,
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although thou movest me against him to destroy him without cause.
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Or is it a contradiction? I'm not sure. So he's saying that this is about trusting God. Okay.
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And what's interesting is, if you would read that book in context, Job trusted God. Yep.
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And when you get to the last chapter, it really becomes evident what his trust was worth. Right.
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And so there's no contradiction between those two if you read them fully.
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If you put that one verse out by itself, then that makes a difference.
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Okay. So they're saying that this is a petty bet between God and Satan.
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And so they're saying that clearly Job did not have favor with the Lord if God
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is using Job because he clearly trusts God. Yeah.
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So he trusts God, but God has no favor with Job. And so he's...
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He's not favoring Job over anybody else that loves him. Right. Yeah. Okay. So yeah.
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So they're saying that that doesn't seem like it would be favor.
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It doesn't sound like it but when you read the book then you know different
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right beloved servant yeah right okay they're pulling at straws here yeah it's
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not so great there were there were some that you know we'll probably there's
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a few more the next one is the holy lifestyle,
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so this one's from ecclesiastes chapter 9 verse 7 go thy way eat thy bread with
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joy and drink thy I whine with a merry heart. Oh boy.
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And then the other one is from first Corinthians chapter seven,
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verse 30, that they rejoice as though they rejoiced not.
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Boy, they didn't read that whole verse, because that whole verse would sound different than that.
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Yeah, so that was... 1 Corinthians... Chapter 7, verse 30.
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So what they have written down is just, they that rejoice as though they rejoiced not.
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Okay. And now you're going to read the whole thing. What I mean,
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brothers, is that time is short.
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From now on, those who have wives should live as they have none.
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Those who mourn as if they did not.
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Those who are happy as if they did not, were not. those
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who buy something as if they were not theirs to
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keep it were not theirs to keep and those who use
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things of this world as if
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not engrossed in them for this world in
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its present form is passing away and so
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he's saying hey time's short don't live for
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things of the world don't live for things of the world and the
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other one is saying go thy way eat thy bread with joy
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drink wine with a merry heart yeah and and what what solomon's trying to say
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there is don't become anal retentive i mean that context is basically saying
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hey we're human time comes and goes understand that and,
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enjoy what you got so he's he would say.
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Or seven for it is now that god favored yeah
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interesting he cut this part off go eat your
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food with gladness and drink your wine with a joyful heart
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for it is now that god favors what you do always
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be clothed in white always anoint your head with oil he he's saying hey enjoy
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the blessings god's given you okay okay and the other one is saying something
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completely different saying hey don't get so fixed on this world right okay
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that makes sense because Because Ecclesiastes,
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that's kind of like a, you know, it's a, whoa, boy, this is hard.
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You know, be happy. Enjoy what you got, man. And then Corinthians is, don't put so much into.
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Don't be playing out there so much that you don't.
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Care of what's serious because this world's passing away okay
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yeah one's asking is am i doing enough there
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are two correctives can i is it
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corrective saying you know you've got these things and this is not what's important
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and the important piece of these correctives are the fact of the context from
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which they come yeah because at any point in time we could be living as woohoo
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exactly might as well eat drink and be merry because tomorrow we die right and the other
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side is we're so so holy holy minded that we can't enjoy the life that we've
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been given there's different things for holy lifestyles there are people that
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live in depression and they need a reminder that hey you know this loosen up
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dude and of course there's obviously
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there's more than just that i'm not saying that's all someone with depression
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needs but when some of them should feel a little blue a little down you need
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someone to come along and say hey,
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come on yeah let's be happy yeah and then other times you know you're like boy
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i got all this This is nice stuff.
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Let me get some more of it. I hope no one tries to take it from me. I'm going to try to get.
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Yeah, I guess I'll put up more barns. Yeah, exactly.
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Hey, you don't need all these things. The time on this earth is short.
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Let's focus on what's right.
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Focus on what's important. Yeah. Yeah.
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So I'd say that the despair can lead you to things that are not a holy lifestyle
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and the materialism can lead you to something that's not a holy lifestyle.
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You can fall off either cliff. Yeah. Yeah. All right.
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Got that one. So next one is punishing crime. Ezekiel 18, verse 20.
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The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father.
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And the claimed contradiction is from Exodus 20, verse 5.
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I, the Lord, thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers
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upon the children into the third and fourth generation.
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And this is actually...
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I've heard this one before. Yeah. Yeah. nudging a
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change so the father
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visiting the iniquity of the fathers to the third and fourth generation
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of those who sin against the lord
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and i will visit the thousand generations of
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those who love me right and so that
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one is a different context than the ezekiel one the son shall not bear the iniquity
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this was actually speaking that if your dad would kill somebody and all of a
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sudden dies of natural causes you would be liable for that and so then it was taking that away from.
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Okay so that's a a declaration
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of god and then a what a a
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correction of it later i mean that does
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interpretation so this ezekiel passage
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actually has to do with with the the sin
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of the father being spelled out on the son oh okay
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so the son would have to die for the son father's inequity
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i see in the father's place oh i
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see and that's not what is meant i'm a
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jealous god visiting the iniquity of the fathers in the
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in the sin portion but it doesn't it's
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not punitive i see okay and so
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visiting means things aren't going to go well right
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and if you understand sin nature the
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the fact that if okay if there's an
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addictive personality disorder that goes it usually
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goes three generations before it's consumed and changed
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because we aren't we aren't inbreeding basically and
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so then the dna is complemented and
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it washes out lord willing especially if we're living in a christian household
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that's moving against it yeah i can attest to that yeah yeah you can god bless
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you so that makes sense yeah it's a one's based on law how are we going to.
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Govern and inflict justice or make sure justice is served.
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And the other one is a lineage, is a speaking into the next generation of what's going to happen. Okay.
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All right. So yeah, that one's definitely not a contradiction.
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The next one, temptation. Hold on, give me one second. Here we go. Let's see.
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We're left and we're already at okay close this one out
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sorry guys there's gonna be a third one so can
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you pray us out yeah heavenly father we
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thank you that these won't go on forever and we thank you
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lord that we are able to uh share some time with others with alex and i here
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together and also those who are listening so we pray you bless our day guide
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us in your ways help us a better understand who we're to be as your people gathered
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in your name and lord keep the
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questions coming in jesus name we pray
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amen amen everyone thanks for joining
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us for this i hope you find some interest in this
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or and can be a part of the discussion on this a little bit
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i know it can be a little bit tricky but go and look
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at the verses and see you know kind of what you can discern from it exactly
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maybe there aren't people in your life that have these objections to to scripture
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but but they do help us arrive at apologetic yeah and i think it helps us better
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We better understand the word. We better understand the word. We can better share it.
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Yeah. And there's definitely people like that out there that say,
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I don't believe in it because they have that kind of mind.
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Then you can say, okay, so what makes you think that? What makes you think that
26:08
that is a contradiction there? Yeah.
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Or if someone says, oh, hey, the Bible has too many contradictions.
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I don't believe it. Send them to us. Yeah. Show them this episode.
26:17
And the next one. And the next one and the one before that. and
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if you're that person listening to it now what do
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you think because we'd like to know are we
26:26
wrong on something do you think there's something here help us
26:29
out i mean you will be helping us out if you're going to be able to show us
26:33
something in here that you think that we missed something like that i'd be interested
26:36
to hear it yep we're open for that conversation so oh absolutely yeah yeah yeah
26:41
all right everyone we'll wrap this up again next week hopefully so we'll see
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you next week lord willing bye,
26:50
Thanks again for joining us for this week's episode.
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We are both having a ton of fun making these videos and episodes.
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And if you're having fun too, please tell a friend about this and help us to grow this mission.
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Thank you and God bless.