Latest / Let's Kick It Off! / Ep 58: Jamie Jackson EXCLUSIVE: Man Utd Fan Protests, Amorim Sacking, INEOS & Carrick

Transcript

Ep 58: Jamie Jackson EXCLUSIVE: Man Utd Fan Protests, Amorim Sacking, INEOS & Carrick · Let's Kick It Off!

0:00
Let's kick it off. I'm here with Jamie Jackson,
0:02
Guardian. I've seen you've just been
0:03
speaking to Steve in the 1958. Just want to get your views as a
0:06
journalist. You're quite outspoken, which I
0:07
respect. You've always kind of said what
0:09
you feel and what the fans think.
0:11
So just quickly, 20 years on the Glazers, what do you say about
0:13
that to begin with? Well.
0:15
I mean, it's probably the best thing that that ever happened to
0:18
all the other Premier League clubs in the continental top
0:20
clubs that were coming in because of the amount of money
0:23
that that they've taken out of the club.
0:25
Could have been, but on transfers basically.
0:27
And then you could have been looking at a spot like Real
0:28
Madrid, you know. I mean, why can't and Buffet
0:31
play here, you know? The amount of money they
0:33
generate. Anyway, so yeah, it's been been
0:36
not a killer for United. Manchester United is so big.
0:38
But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Real.
0:42
A real shame in a way one deserved.
0:44
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like even just quickly on
0:46
this place, I look at it and I think I get the new project for
0:48
Vineyard, yes, but just like move that fucking railway line
0:51
and raise sell down. Let's have like, get that done
0:54
and then look at the big new stadium.
0:56
It's very interesting you say that, but Andy Burnham came to
0:58
see this. Yeah.
0:58
When we launched the stadium, I actually said to him, yeah, him
1:01
a bit the brilliant about it. That's what I said because he
1:04
mentioned that. So that's a railway station,
1:05
yeah. That's got to be moved, that's
1:07
really. To anything I could really want
1:09
to just came across a bit of an excuse to reason I mean a reason
1:13
not to sort that's what what what what should be done now
1:15
Yeah OK and just very quickly yes you're right clip what
1:17
changed. You see, in the last two years,
1:18
because me as a fan, it's been a total car.
1:20
Crash Well, it's kind of like what Steve just said.
1:22
It's got worse, I think. Yeah, I mean you've had the the
1:25
10 hard thing where nearly sacked him.
1:26
Didn't then sacked him, yeah. Then Ashley fleeve in and out of
1:28
the Amarin thing where he's never going to suit him.
1:44
Let's kick it off. I'm Steve and I'm joined by Ash
1:47
and Jamie Jackson from the Guardian.
1:49
So Jamie, thank you very much for joining.
1:52
I think I met you for the first time down some at Busby Way on
1:55
the weekend. I saw you talking to Steve of
1:58
the 1958, who are obviously organising the protest.
2:01
And yeah, he was so kind. I just kind of pulled you
2:04
afterwards and you gave me a little one minute interview.
2:07
And I actually want to start by talking about the protests
2:09
because other podcasts, you know, have put it towards the
2:12
back end or certain media channels, we won't name them,
2:15
Sky haven't covered it. So, yeah, I just want to know,
2:19
you know, what has drawn you to kind of like, you know,
2:21
reporting on the protests because you don't have to.
2:25
Yeah, I mean, I've done a little bit with them because when they
2:28
did the joint thing with FC United at their stadium, their
2:35
ground last year, I went and did that that that story then
2:38
reported on on the sort of joint action, the stuff outside and
2:44
they went to the sort of one of the bars behind the one of the
2:46
standards in FC United's. Listen, you know, I think it's a
2:51
very interesting and worthy, it's very interesting story in a
2:57
very worthy cause I think there's a lot to be said for
2:59
what Steve's saying. Maybe you 2 gentlemen would
3:01
agree and maybe lots of fans that, you know, let's just say
3:05
specifically Old Trafford, the stadium.
3:07
I mean, I was looking at it again when we met actually on a
3:10
Sunday and it's surrounded by streets, houses, Yes, it's
3:13
great. It's right in the middle of a
3:14
neighbourhood. It's not like sort of out in the
3:16
middle of the, you know what I mean?
3:17
Like a customer belt. And there's nothing wrong with
3:19
that necessarily. But if you've got a stadium
3:21
that's been there since 1910, I think it is that is kind of
3:25
organic and as I say, surrounded by a normal neighbourhood.
3:28
And they're I think that's amazing.
3:30
And so there's a lot to be said for keeping that.
3:32
Now they might argue, well, the stadium is actually moving
3:35
location, you still have that. But what Steve was getting at
3:38
was you've got the Munich tunnel, you know, obviously it's
3:42
sadly, I think it's a 68 or 69th anniversary, very surely that
3:45
horrible tragedy. You've also got that, that
3:48
pitch. I know it's changed what you
3:50
call it orientation, but that grass is basically hard.
3:53
You know, George Boston on it. Rooney, Ronaldo, Bobby Charlton,
3:57
the Busby, basically, yeah. Billy Meredith, I think, unless
4:00
we've got the dates wrong on him.
4:01
You might have predated it, but you're sort of saying you can
4:03
actually look at that. Imagine that.
4:05
And actually when when Eric 10 Haag was the manager, I I wrote
4:08
a prose poetry account of his first season charge.
4:12
It was contrarious. So I was doing it as as the
4:15
weeks went on and well, you know, one of the things that
4:18
struck me was about that, that that that pitch, that stadium.
4:21
And it's the same as when I did a biography of of soul show.
4:24
You know, I looked into the stage.
4:25
It was really interesting. So that's just that that's just
4:28
specifically about the stadium. Then if you broaden out to come
4:30
up with 1958, you know what that's part of which is
4:33
basically they want the glazes out.
4:35
And so Jim Ratcliffe, I can completely see, you know, I'm
4:40
not a fan, but I am a fan of kind of what's right or wrong.
4:43
Hopefully. Yeah, doesn't feel, but it
4:45
doesn't sit particularly right, I think with anyone even Listen,
4:48
I get that United, the most successful club in the land.
4:50
And so anyone, you know, there's the whole thing.
4:51
If you don't support United, then you want them to to lose.
4:53
But I think if you if you've got half a sensible head on you, if
4:55
you're a football person, right, you don't care who you support.
4:59
You don't want to see this this this grand institution, this
5:03
storied football club which has so many amazing players.
5:05
It's an absolute, you know, it's like a sort of Hollywood dream
5:08
factory of, of sporting stories, ups and downs.
5:11
You don't want that to be sort of like torn apart.
5:12
No one wants that because, you know, it's part of without
5:15
Manchester United, you wouldn't have had, you know, the rivals
5:17
who would be Arsenal or Liverpool, you know?
5:20
Yeah, no, I've got lots of friends who are Liverpool fans
5:22
are deep down, they respect United.
5:23
They never admit it, you know. Of course.
5:25
Yeah, yeah. I would be not, you know.
5:26
Same. Same the other way, Jamie.
5:28
Exactly. There you go.
5:29
You want to beat them, but at the same time you come almost,
5:32
you know, it's like Borg and macro in tennis or you know what
5:34
I mean, you want. So, you know, I completely
5:37
respect and understand. And that's why the FC United
5:40
thing was interesting because obviously that was a splinter
5:42
group. Sorry, a splinter, but I was
5:44
splinter club, a club which was formed because when Mark up
5:47
Glazer bought a club in 2005, straight away, you know, these
5:51
people meant some of whom are still there, actually said
5:54
right, we've had enough, We've had enough of this.
5:57
So, yeah, I mean, I, I can relate to it and, you know, it's
6:00
interesting to see where they go next with it because on the one
6:04
hand, I think they, you know, they, they would say, and they
6:07
have said that. Who knows whether it will work.
6:11
But but there's, there's what will work and what will work.
6:13
It is still making a stance. It's still, I think it's
6:17
something to be said, even if you don't get like the Glaze and
6:20
Ratcliffe outfit, something to be said for like making a stance
6:22
and say this is what we believe in going to follow it through.
6:24
And I think that's a really good thing to be in life.
6:27
Yes, sometimes the win is just doing that, you know what I
6:30
mean, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
6:32
Because because we've had, we've had criticism like within even
6:35
our own community, which is literally about 20-30 United
6:38
fans. We've got like a hardcore
6:39
community within WhatsApp. And even a couple of them have
6:43
been quite critical about Sunday and saying, oh, what, you know,
6:47
what's the March going to do? You know, as in on its own,
6:50
which I think everyone understands.
6:52
But I think the idea is that will then build towards
6:54
something bigger. And that may not happen, but I
6:56
think that's the idea. So I think, like you said, you
6:59
know, you could sit back and just complain or you could get
7:02
involved, right? Is that the way you see it?
7:03
Yeah. You have 100% and you know,
7:07
they're getting good numbers. It's difficult because I don't
7:11
know how many it is, but you know, not every fan who comes on
7:14
a particular match day is a sort of like you 2 die hard season
7:17
ticket. You know, they're about to just
7:19
be there for that, for that one game or couple.
7:21
Yeah, that's what I mean. So I understand that, but what
7:25
is the heart and soul of a football club if it's not the
7:28
the fans? It really, I mean, and this is a
7:29
cliche because it's true, you know, without is that qualism,
7:32
without, without fans, football is nothing.
7:35
You. Know I was lucky enough even
7:37
though it's difficult so I was lucky enough to be able to go
7:40
and still report on football games during COVID.
7:42
Yeah, I was privileged to be able to do that.
7:44
You know, people obviously were sort of stuck in the houses and
7:47
I was at those at the stadiums, you know, all the time for for
7:50
the United City games and I love being there, you know, for the
7:53
foot, for the football. But you really saw without fans.
7:57
Wow. You know, it's like a sort of
7:58
almost like a ghost sport. So despite the fact that the
8:03
front mates can be fragmented or you've got different interests,
8:06
you've still got a hardcore or the soul of the club who, you
8:09
know, the people from 1958 maybe a bit like you 2 gentlemen, I
8:11
don't know if I don't know. But you know, they had parents
8:14
and grandparents, you know, who supported United is there church
8:18
or they're sort of it's family for them.
8:20
So, you know, I would never ever dismiss anyone who's who
8:24
believes in anything as long as they're doing it the right way,
8:26
sort of, you know, standing up for it.
8:28
I mean surely you know, you won't go too deep.
8:30
But what is life about if it's not about sort of, We can go
8:34
deep. We can go deep, we like.
8:36
This is an unfiltered pod, Jamie.
8:38
We like going deep. So, so, you know, if you could,
8:41
if you care about something and and you love it, then that in
8:46
itself is a beautiful thing. You know, turn if it's about
8:51
protesting against your football club that you love.
8:53
I mean, it's an amazing thing really.
8:55
I don't know. I just wonder if the Glazers and
8:59
Ratcliffe if they if you could actually get them in a room or
9:02
not even just once but have an ongoing.
9:06
Dialogue. Relationship or called yeah
9:09
discussion with whether they might actually start to feel
9:12
this feel what it really might because they might think they
9:14
understand what it means to be a fun but less you know sort of
9:18
live and breathe it which which I don't I'm not a fan of but my
9:21
my son's son he is he's 14 he loves them he just does you know
9:25
he loves united and so I can see you for him and So what I'm
9:28
saying is is I think it's there's something worth fighting
9:31
for. So as I said earlier, sometimes
9:33
you can, you can lose something, but you've actually you've
9:34
actually won because you made a stands.
9:36
And I think that's what the 1958 are about me, yes, the winning
9:40
by the very fact that they're there doing this, You know, you
9:43
could be one person doing it. It still still is, for me
9:46
anyway, still is worthy or as worthwhile and and as beautiful
9:49
because you know, you've got that sort of commitment.
9:53
Well, it's it's protesting in general, right?
9:55
Whether it's politics or football, it starts with one and
9:59
it grows from there normally, right?
10:00
So you aren't going against the masses.
10:03
And you've touched on it. There is obviously a divide when
10:06
it is this subject as well, which is a shame.
10:08
But I just wanted to quickly touch on the point you mentioned
10:11
about, you know, getting the Glazers or gym in a room with
10:14
the fans. They tried that right after
10:17
Super League in terms of like they had the I think it was like
10:20
a biannual fans forum with Joel Glazer.
10:23
I think maybe once or twice they like met and it was on Zoom as
10:27
well. But obviously that died of
10:28
death, right, In terms of like the interaction after maybe 21
10:32
or 22. I think it was when they did
10:34
that. And I think that's another
10:36
reason why Steve and the 58 are doing what they're doing, right?
10:39
They're absolutely well, we're fed up with the Glazers already.
10:42
And now it's in the OS's turn to be, you know, just as you know,
10:46
inept as as the Glazers when it comes to running this
10:49
magnificent football club like you've touched upon.
10:52
Yeah, and Ash, like you should, you know, we should like let
10:55
Jamie know that, you know, the early days of this pod was like
10:58
a year ago. So it goes back to when, you
11:01
know, the whole Ineos Qatar thing was going on, you know,
11:03
between supporters. Again, we were divided right as
11:06
in who we wanted to take the club forward.
11:09
Especially in this. Yeah.
11:10
So just just for your context, Jamie, like Ash was back in
11:14
Ineos, I wanted Qatar because I wanted the full buyout.
11:17
But obviously once Jim, you know, does the deal gets into
11:21
the club, you know, everyone tries to get a bit hopeful.
11:24
I think even Steve from the 58 said, you know, we tried to give
11:27
him a chance. You want something to believe
11:28
in. But very early on we started
11:31
seeing question, questionable decision making.
11:34
And I, I've heard you speak about it on other channels, like
11:37
goes back to the way they dealt with 10 Hog, which I want to
11:40
touch on because I think your colleague is it Jacob Steinberg
11:43
wrote a very interesting piece pre FA Cup, pre FA Cup final,
11:48
that 10 Hog was going to be sacked regardless of the result.
11:52
So I just want to just dive into there actually, because this is
11:55
when my alarm bells start going off.
11:57
And this is only six months after the deal was confirmed.
12:00
I think it was December 2023. It was Christmas Eve, wasn't it?
12:05
December 23, they announced the deal.
12:08
So kind of going into that new year, you know, it's the very
12:11
early stages of Ineos's management and we know they had
12:14
full control of football. So I want to know like what you
12:17
think in terms of the way they handled those couple of weeks
12:20
before the cup final because we got battered 4 nil by Palace
12:23
away. I remember that and I remember
12:24
thinking this is done. I think a lot of fans were
12:27
thinking that. And then I think clearly what's
12:29
happened. You correct me if I'm wrong
12:30
because you've got the sources. The club started speaking to
12:33
other managers because they thought 10 hug was done.
12:36
You've, you know, your colleague has obviously got wind of it, so
12:38
you've gone with the story. So just if you can rewind back
12:41
to that point, tell us what you were hearing from the inside
12:44
circle and what you made of it. Yeah, I mean, I think
12:52
characterise it kind of perfectly and that's why I
12:55
mentioned it when we chatted on Sunday.
12:56
So they basically wanted to sack him?
12:59
Yes. And I think so.
13:01
So they interviewed a lot, a lot of people at the time.
13:04
Ashford wasn't in there because he's still in gardening league.
13:06
So on the Wilcox dropping it, so for example, I think the one
13:11
they really wanted was too cool. Yeah.
13:14
And he got so close. So they met him in Monaco and he
13:16
kind of, I think he basically said no to them.
13:19
And I think that's kind of what saved 10 Hag at that moment.
13:22
Yes. Yeah.
13:26
I mean, you, you name it, but he sounded out.
13:27
No, people like Gary O'Neill. They even sounded out.
13:29
Yeah. You know, the horrible.
13:31
Yeah. Thomas.
13:32
Frank Thomas. Frank Yeah.
13:35
It was even, well, they spoke to him, didn't they?
13:40
And at that time they actually said no because he plays a pack
13:44
free. Yeah, I mean, that was
13:47
Liverpool's sort of rejection of it as well.
13:49
So they did this whole thing. It was just kind of because of
13:52
people like me, kind of played out in public.
13:54
It was reported on obviously, and 10 hours not stupid.
14:01
And then you get to the final. I don't know if you 2.
14:03
We were there. We were there.
14:05
You must have loved that, right. I mean, I was there report.
14:07
I mean, you know, great day. I'd really well probably the
14:09
best you played until this last. I be with under Carrick, right?
14:12
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, Maynu scored the
14:16
winner, didn't he? Yeah.
14:17
Can actually the first. Yeah.
14:18
Maynu. Yeah.
14:18
That's it. That's it.
14:19
Yeah, just a quick. Aside when Maynu, when Maynu was
14:22
ridiculously dropped by Amrin, I kept on hearing this stuff about
14:25
Maynu's not too mobile and he hasn't got the legs and people
14:28
got the goalies for the FA Cup final.
14:29
We basically sprinted the whole, you know, that was that was a
14:32
back to front move. Wasn't it started by Rash?
14:33
Yeah, yeah. You know, he made the big run
14:35
into the area and I was just anyway, that's that's moving
14:36
aside. So yeah, they did all that,
14:38
decided not to sack him then. Then they had this sort of
14:42
powwow in a beefa when he was on holiday.
14:44
I think when they sort of did, you know, they were going to
14:48
patch you up or whatever, spent all that money in the summer.
14:53
It was an open secret they kind of wanted to get rid of and then
14:55
they keep. And then, you know, I actually
14:58
did a story, I think it was. Yeah.
15:01
It was the week after you'd lost to Liverpool on the Sunday at
15:05
home. 3 was basically. He doesn't.
15:07
We were there. Right.
15:09
Yeah. So it's basically the story was
15:11
if Ted Hogg doesn't sort of what was the phrase used to be sort
15:15
of like address his game model. Yeah, OK, yeah, Be out now.
15:19
Surely they knew what his game model was when they employed him
15:21
initially or, you know, when they figured to get rid of him
15:25
and all the rest of it. And yeah, anyway, he was gone
15:27
about three weeks after that. Yeah.
15:29
And Jamie, I've got a quick question on that Liverpool game.
15:31
Did you do the interview with Omar Barada and Jason Wilcox
15:36
before that game were? Yeah, OK.
15:38
Yeah. So this is this is interesting.
15:40
So yeah, that was about 12:00 in one of the boardrooms.
15:44
Yes, yeah. And in that I was going to
15:47
mention this in that sort of sit down, as with my other sort of
15:50
newspaper colleagues, they went on the record.
15:54
I think it was a Ashraf who said it basically backing tent hard
15:56
to the hilt. So we did that.
16:00
Now I happen to be off the next two days and the next time I
16:02
came back to work was when I just did that story sort of
16:04
saying that he's going to be sacked.
16:07
Let's just say that the club weren't happy because you've
16:10
gone from Ashraf on the record or Barraca, which one?
16:12
It was saying in that sit down. Yeah, he's our man.
16:14
And then I've done the story basically the sacking 2 days
16:16
later and it turned out to be correct.
16:18
Because, you know, how can I say this?
16:23
It was a little, it was an interesting move to, to, to talk
16:27
to us. Yeah, sort of, you know, two or
16:29
three hours before you're playing your big rivals at home
16:31
because if you lose. Exactly.
16:35
You know, the story we did was we published for the next day
16:37
anyway, so it was a little bit sort of hostage to forge when
16:39
you did. Look, I can't remember what the
16:40
score was in that game. Was it?
16:41
Was it 3? Three nil it was.
16:42
Three nil, but I remember we went to the game and I remember
16:45
some of the quotes started floating about, you know, maybe
16:48
even an hour before kickoff about he's our man.
16:52
Yeah, like you said, gameplay or whatever the phrase was.
16:55
So like, yeah, it's bringing back bad memories.
16:58
But yeah, it was it was all true.
17:00
Yeah, that. Was the first big, let's say,
17:02
misstep. I've been polite and then, yeah.
17:05
Was it early December or? Yeah.
17:06
Nashworth girls, right? Ashworth, Yeah.
17:09
I can't remember the game but it was at Old Trafford.
17:10
Newcastle. Newcastle, I think.
17:13
So what happened was after the game, we're in the press room,
17:16
which is sort of under, I don't know if you know where the
17:17
directors sit. It's kind.
17:18
Of yeah, self, self standard, yeah.
17:21
And and I didn't know at the time, but looking back, we then
17:24
did realise a sort of Ashford face Ashworth walk through our
17:27
room because where they sort of where the book is, is you go
17:30
next to you can't exit via our media room.
17:33
You know, he speaks to managers and I think he's just been told
17:35
then that he was on the way out. But that was basically because
17:38
he he didn't think Amory was particularly good appointment.
17:42
Yeah, he was proved right. So we can can we pick up on
17:45
that, Jamie, right. Because like there's there's two
17:47
things that I want to talk about.
17:49
So after Ruben was signed, there was massive reporting from you
17:53
and all the mainstream media about the fact that Omar Barada
17:57
wanted his name associated with this.
17:59
And then as soon as he was fired, there was a backtrack,
18:02
coincidentally to say, oh, Omar, I wasn't as involved as as has
18:06
been made out. Tell us what's the truth?
18:10
Well, but Barada, let me get this right.
18:12
He was involved. He was, he was at the club
18:15
properly, wasn't he? Came in summer.
18:17
Summer 24. Yeah, I mean.
18:20
Pretty sure it was, it was his and Wilcox appointment
18:24
basically. Well at the time Ash was was
18:27
there. But Ashworth, as I say, I don't
18:30
think he was particularly keen because of the system I think
18:33
and I think sort of Ratcliffe outvoted him or you know, he
18:38
out. What do you call?
18:39
It the alternative. Listen, I can I ask because you
18:41
obviously cover Man City as well, from what we heard as well
18:44
is that Man City were looking at Ruben quite, you know heavily
18:48
and obviously Omar has been plucked out of City into United.
18:51
So I always felt he stole Citys homework and just, well, kind of
18:54
went for him on that basis. It may well be an element of
18:57
that. I mean that's kind of what
18:58
garden leaves about, isn't it? Supposedly sort of stops, you
19:00
know, if you go arrival straight away sort of taking ideas or
19:04
projects. I mean, I did I have to do the
19:08
game in which his sporting what Man City Five team was it in
19:14
Lisbon? Right?
19:16
I can't remember. Was he already going to be the
19:18
manager? Yeah, he was.
19:19
He was already going to be confirmed, I saw.
19:22
That, yeah, but of course, what we didn't know was that was kind
19:25
of the start or towards the start of City having a real big
19:27
freefall. If you remember last season, you
19:29
know that period. But you know, you look to that
19:32
and you thought, wow, you know this guy.
19:34
But for me, the biggest thing, and I'm just touched on it
19:37
before and, you know, you can go back and see all the questions.
19:39
That's the biggest thing that said to me, he's not right for
19:42
United. Was this dropping a menu?
19:44
I could not understand it, you know, Amreen, what are you
19:47
doing? This guy 1819 started the
19:50
European Championship final for England right in mid, in central
19:54
midfield. You've got to be some player to
19:57
do that, right? I don't care, you know?
19:59
And he's gone from that to being dropped and oh, is he A10?
20:02
Is he a centre foot? Is he a false 9?
20:04
I don't really feel and I'm just thinking. 100% and then you
20:07
know. Just to Fast forward, he comes
20:09
straight back. He comes back in his first game
20:11
back in Derby and how did he play in that game?
20:14
Unbelievable, you know that this case.
20:16
Covered the most distance in any Premier League game this season.
20:20
But why he hasn't got legs for said?
20:22
You know what I mean? Yeah, We had heated debates
20:24
about Kobe. I was like, really like on your
20:27
side there about why is Kobe not on the team.
20:28
So yeah, within the fan base, obviously, you know that was
20:31
going on as well. Jamie, just quickly back to
20:35
Tenoc. Yes.
20:38
There's there's one notion that everyone talks about when it
20:42
comes to any US with the FA Cup final.
20:45
Like without putting words in your mouth, do you think Ineos
20:48
bottled it because they won the FA Cup final?
20:51
You're gonna blame your colleague Andy Mitten with his
20:54
poll. He's 84%.
20:57
Did he bottle it? I really don't know.
21:00
It's a really good question. Possibly.
21:03
I mean, you know, Jacob Steinberg is a very, very good
21:07
reporter, yes. He would not have done that
21:09
story without him being told from sort of, you know, top
21:13
sources etcetera, for sure. You know, I think it changed.
21:16
I think it changed for sure. Jamie surely, like it's pre cup
21:20
final, they were pretty much decided they're going to sack
21:22
him. Let's not forget no one was
21:24
expecting us to win that final, including us, the fans.
21:27
So they've obviously done their planning and they clearly
21:30
changed because I had the two week review period, didn't they
21:33
after the final that when they didn't make the call.
21:35
So I think clearly they've changed their mind and I always
21:38
said actually, you can back me up on this in our group chat.
21:40
I always said that Jacob Steinberg story was true and
21:44
they've then changed their mind so.
21:45
Yeah. And to be fair, like, look,
21:47
Jacob Steinberg like does a lot of reporting for like Chelsea
21:50
and stuff like that. Normally he's on the money.
21:52
So I think at the time when he reported it, which I think was
21:55
the Thursday or Friday before the cup final, that that was
21:58
what happened. And Jamie, you know, as a
22:00
journalist, you can report something on the day and then,
22:04
you know, football changes. It's some, it's the craziest
22:07
industry in the world, right? You know what?
22:09
It's that is a really prescient thing to say when I sometimes
22:12
get kindly asked to go and sort of talk to students who are
22:15
doing sports journalism, say undergraduate.
22:18
Yeah. But when I talk about football
22:20
transfers, I always say what you just said.
22:21
Then, Ash, something could be true, yes, at 5:00, say on a
22:25
Friday, and by 65 past five Friday, it could be untrue.
22:28
But no one's lied or it hasn't. You know, it's not like you make
22:31
up. It's something that's what you
22:32
got. That's why it's so.
22:34
And actually, that's one reason why managers stroke clubs don't
22:37
like to talk about players, you know, they're wanting to sign
22:39
because it can look really silly, you know, So, so, yeah,
22:43
so. So you're completely right.
22:45
You know, it does change. It's very, very difficult.
22:49
It's the trickiest thing to to report on is is stuff to do with
22:53
either yeah, football managers jobs or or player signings.
22:58
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Store. So I want to just very quickly
23:23
hone back in on the Ashworth thing because I know it gets
23:26
talked about a lot, right? The fact that they of course at
23:29
him for however many months they then, you know, got him out of
23:32
Newcastle, paid the compensation to get him, waited for the
23:35
gardening leave. Then obviously after 2-3 months
23:38
at the club, he's then leaves chemistry issue according to Jim
23:42
Ratcliffe. So I know this headline gets
23:44
talked about a lot, but I really want to hone in on it because,
23:46
again, going back to my concerns as a fan, we've had the F
23:49
debark, the 10 hog debacle. That's one thing.
23:52
The Ashworth one really, really worried me because, and again,
23:56
Ash will back me up here even pre any as I always who said,
23:59
and a lot of people said, Manchester United need a world
24:02
class director of football. I think that was said by many
24:05
fans, many journalists even that was clear as day.
24:07
So when Ineos came in and announced, oh, we've gone and
24:10
got Ashworth, one of the best in the country, England, Brighton,
24:13
Newcastle, I was like, OK, I can buy into this and I I didn't
24:16
want Ineos in to begin with. I was OK, fair enough.
24:19
They've gone and got the best. They then get him in and then
24:23
I'm sorry again, I don't know things as well as you do, but
24:26
for me it's pretty clear Jim Ratcliffe is making football
24:30
decisions. I know he leans on Wilcox quite
24:33
a lot in Barada, but for me they they got Ashworth in position
24:37
and then didn't listen to him. So why would you go and hire
24:40
someone in that position and not listen to him?
24:42
Is that fair, Jamie? The way I'm reading it?
24:45
Yeah. And and it's fair.
24:46
And, and so how I would describe what you fairly describe or, you
24:52
know, the sort of thought process baffling, it's a little
24:55
bit like. And I could sort of see Ameren's
24:57
argument here, even though he wasn't the right man for the
24:59
head coach of United, you know, him saying what in essence, why
25:03
should I listen to Wilcox? I'm the manager as he as he said
25:05
he was, you know, so and I live or die by my decisions and that,
25:09
you know, so. And I got that.
25:10
That's kind of the same with Ashley.
25:11
Why did you get this guy in who? Yeah, I thought that wasn't a
25:15
smart appointment. And actually, you know, I know
25:19
him a little bit. I don't know him, but I've, I've
25:20
come in to, you know, through work.
25:22
I know him a little bit. I remember him at the FAI think
25:25
that was a good. I think he was a good hire, yes.
25:27
You know, that's what I thought, I think.
25:29
I think, you know, he's very good at yeah, over.
25:33
He's measured. He comes across measured calm.
25:36
You know, like, yeah. Organised.
25:38
Yeah, they had a lot of experience.
25:39
You just mentioned it there, two or three major clubs plus
25:42
England, and I knew what he was doing.
25:44
You know, he's with S England. So, yeah, it was S it was on the
25:47
21 Ouch, etcetera. So that that that after 10 argue
25:52
thing, you start to think, listen, you can make mistakes
25:56
any walk of life. It's not about making mistakes.
25:58
Yeah, it's not about not making mistakes.
25:59
That's fine. That's absolutely fair,
26:01
especially if you sort of try to be ambitious and try to do
26:03
something the right way. But that was a you know, it's a
26:08
10 Arg. I thought was the 10 Arg thing
26:10
we discussed was a bit of a farce, right?
26:12
Yeah, yeah, but OK. But then you then you have this
26:14
what I'm on player and you know, and then you know, Ameren even
26:19
said to them he didn't want to come in in mid season.
26:22
Listen, I don't necessarily think, you know, he should have
26:26
waited until the summer, but there's 343 thing and then.
26:32
Out of interest, were there any other names that they talked to
26:34
like seriously like or was it just pretty much Reuben?
26:38
I think he was the only one who's.
26:39
They had him ready to go, didn't they?
26:41
Because as soon as Tanhag got sacked, within 48 hours they
26:45
were flying out to this. But people on the list, but it
26:47
might be the sort of same sort of people they would return to
26:50
like Frank, for example, if that hadn't worked.
26:52
But sure, Ameren was there and at the time he thought was he 39
26:56
at the time? I think, you know, still a very
26:57
young man. Yeah.
26:59
No, I think even though Benfica was his team as a player, I
27:03
think it was when he went to sport and they hadn't won the
27:05
league for for a long time and he won it twice the bounds.
27:09
It's the first time they've done that, that sport.
27:11
They've done it since the 50s a thing.
27:13
But you know, this is not a disrespect thing.
27:15
But the Portuguese league is not the Premier League.
27:17
Yes, it's a bit like, you know, like Moise managing Everton
27:21
going to United. It's different managing United,
27:23
you know, without wanting to sound don't sound vain, but
27:25
reporting on Manchester United, it's different to say reporting
27:28
on ports of like, which is what I did before I got this, you
27:31
know, it's a different, it's a whole, you know what I mean, so.
27:34
Well, it's just not you, Jamie. Like I listened to an interview
27:37
with Ian Graham, right? You know, famous Liverpool
27:40
analyst, he even said like he was surprised United went for
27:45
Ruben because of the squad profile.
27:47
So you're 1 of many in terms of the mainstream media and fans
27:52
like me and Steve saying like, OK, he probably is a really good
27:57
manager, but it really for this club in terms of the squad we've
28:02
got. And yeah, the profile to your
28:03
point, yeah, I mean. That, that, that, you know,
28:06
because I just, I was just saying that I'm thinking about
28:08
this 343 and on the one hand, I'm thinking United don't play
28:11
343. They play with how we want to
28:13
call it 4, you know, 442-4414, you know, but but then you
28:18
looked at the sporting team, it's quite attacking and they
28:20
had these two. There was one guy particularly
28:24
and these two fast wing backs and and I sort of thought, OK,
28:27
if he comes to United and plays his sort of fast hurtling almost
28:30
like wingers, even though the wing backs sort of free for.
28:33
Energetic, you know? Yeah.
28:35
United fans might, you know, warm to that, OK, this is
28:38
attack, this sort of attack United.
28:39
But it just wasn't, yeah, wasn't really there.
28:42
You did have an upturn, obviously this season with more
28:44
goals, but I can't remember. It was last season.
28:45
You just couldn't score any goals and you know it was.
28:47
Just yeah. It was just, it was a.
28:50
Little tried to forget last season, Jamie, to be honest.
28:53
Yeah, I mean, you know, you mentioned before you Bill Bow, I
28:56
obviously did the semi final and the final was an awful game of
28:59
football, wasn't it? I mean, it was just, you know,
29:00
that he lost us. Yeah, it.
29:02
Was terrible. You know, he he fell out with
29:04
people like Ganacho, who you would have thought would have
29:06
been ideal for an attacking 343. Yeah, you know, sort of a
29:09
winger. I don't know.
29:11
It's just the whole thing was a little bit And you know what,
29:13
what what really struck me as someone whose reports on United,
29:16
you know, obviously sitting is always watching football.
29:18
Luckily enough for a living, the very first game after he left,
29:22
it was Burnley away, right? And Fletcher was the manager.
29:24
Or when he got into it and you played 4231 and you saw Bruno
29:28
Fernandez in his, in his number 10 position.
29:30
It was like, wow, was the last 18 moments really, you know,
29:33
with Amerind? Because here it was, yeah.
29:36
Being and he just sort of looked so much more.
29:39
I don't know and this whole thing and I I, you know, I
29:42
hammered away at him on this as well Amerind this whole thing
29:44
like I'm I'm free for free. Not even the Pope can make me
29:47
check see if it's a badge of honour.
29:49
Do you know what right he would say?
29:51
He would say, you know, if I, if I change your ways because of,
29:55
you know, the, you know, if I've changed our ways, it looks like
29:58
the media have made me do it, then what are the players going
30:00
to think about it? I've never said this to him, but
30:02
why? What I would have said was I
30:04
understand what you're saying, but you don't think it's a
30:05
position to strength sometimes rumoured to be able to say to
30:07
your players, maybe I've got this a little bit wrong, we're
30:09
going to go this way now. Just, you know, that's what I
30:11
mean. Again, you always have to be
30:14
right to sort of persuade people.
30:16
Sometimes admitting you wrong gains you more respect, right?
30:20
I think that's the problem, Jamie, Like, you know, you
30:23
touched on Reuben's age. I'm actually born 2 weeks before
30:27
him, right? So I really empathise in terms
30:30
of like what it's what it's like to be in a job like that.
30:33
In terms of like, Can you imagine being 39 going to, you
30:37
know, like you described as like a Hollywood football club?
30:40
And to me the, the job was too big for him.
30:43
Even the the cameras on him, he just said stuff like you would
30:46
never say. Like I remember after the
30:48
Ipswich game, he got rudely interrupted by Ed Sheeran
30:51
shaking Jamie Redknapp's hand. But he told the presenter like,
30:55
oh, like all these interviews during the week, it's like, what
30:58
did you expect? It's Manchester United, you
31:00
know, to use the Gary Gary Neville line.
31:03
And then just repeatedly, like he made headlines for you guys
31:06
without even really have you guys didn't really have to dig
31:10
that deep. What was the what was the heated
31:11
exchange you, you had with him, Jamie, like in the last month or
31:14
so? And there was a specific quote
31:16
that surfaced, but I think it was you that asked the question.
31:19
You have to remind me. So, so, so this this this goes
31:23
this is related to may do right? So what happened right, right.
31:26
This, this is kind of where where not going to say this, I
31:29
don't want to sound big headed, but it part of being a
31:31
journalist is being observing and maybe sometimes picking up
31:35
on something which maybe it's not that day's top story because
31:37
something else on that day's is more, but you store it away.
31:40
So what happened was on Christmas Eve, he did a press
31:45
conference ahead of the Newcastle game, right.
31:47
And in that, in that press conference, he said Kobe Main,
31:50
who is the future of Manchester United.
31:52
So that was that was the top line of that day because, you
31:55
know, mainly have been dropped and you know, he I don't think
31:58
he started in the Premier League.
31:59
And he was saying this was like a sea change.
32:01
But he also said towards the end, I may have to check off
32:05
this press conference on Christmas Eve.
32:07
I may have to change my free for free because I'm starting to
32:09
realise. Yeah, I remember that.
32:11
Yeah. I can no longer get the big
32:13
players or something like that needed for.
32:15
It now yeah, I. Came.
32:17
Out to get the team, yes. I came out of that, I said to my
32:20
desk mainly is the main story. But that quote is interesting,
32:22
right? I'm going to return to it with
32:24
him the next time. And if you look actually on my
32:27
if you look at my ex feed the next guy.
32:30
So you had Newcastle on the Boxing Day.
32:32
Yeah, but actually he actually did play A42 free one.
32:34
Now, if you if you remember, yeah.
32:36
And then the next game was Leeds on the Sunday and there's a
32:38
press conference on the Friday. Now, if you look on my ex
32:40
timeline before that press conference, I don't know what
32:42
day it was. It might be Christmas Day, but I
32:43
mean the Boxing Day. But at some point I I mentioned
32:47
this quote. So this is this is odd.
32:49
Did he not know this a year ago? Yeah, you know, when he first
32:51
got the job that he wouldn't have the money for this free 4
32:53
free thing. So I went into that press game
32:54
was on the Friday and I had free stabs at it.
32:58
First two times he said, you know, I said to him, you said
33:01
this actresses Eve, were you not aware of this a year ago?
33:04
I don't want to talk about that. I've never got.
33:05
Then the third time I said. That was it, yeah.
33:07
Yeah. The thing is people looking at
33:09
this might think it's a bit strange because surely should
33:11
have been aware of this a year ago.
33:13
And then I said, this is, I think this is what Well, this is
33:14
what triggered him. I said, has someone talked to
33:16
you about a change in budget, maybe Jason Wilcox?
33:19
And that's when he couldn't resist longer.
33:21
And he sort of said you're, you know, you are very smart.
33:24
And this goes back. I said oh.
33:25
He called you Claire, that was. That was to you, smart guy.
33:27
Yes, that was it, That was it. If anything he should have said
33:31
I'm a genius, but you know, I'll let that one pass on joking but
33:35
but it goes to what you were just saying then stinking.
33:38
Well, you know. And Ash he he tried his best to
33:43
say anything, but when it came to it, he was triggered.
33:46
And again, the jump in a bit too big for me.
33:48
Couldn't now listen. He'd had a meeting just before
33:51
that press conference because he when he in which Wilcox him had
33:53
a bit of a bit, let's say a heated debate and he walked in
33:57
with a face like Thunder. So I think he was so, so that
34:01
that was then that and, you know, and that then blew up and
34:04
then on the, on the, the Leeds game was on the Sunday.
34:06
I didn't go to it because City were playing Chelsea at home.
34:09
I was their colleague in the away and we actually played all
34:12
right, which was surprising that it blew up after.
34:14
Yeah. Then afterwards this, this the
34:17
sort of basically, I remember talk sport, talk to me about it,
34:19
you know, it's basically 3 words.
34:21
The forward you was it, you are very, you are very forwards.
34:24
You are very smart. But because it was about the the
34:26
Wilcox thing, it gave it, that was the story.
34:28
That's all you needed. So then it was then developed on
34:31
the Sunday. That's when he said all that
34:32
stuff about sporting director has to do his job, blah blah
34:34
blah and. When I was driving back from.
34:37
I'm the manager. Yes, even though I saw my name,
34:41
you did misinformed. So when I was driving back from
34:43
the City Chelsea game, I got a store, I got wind that he could
34:46
be sat the next day. So I did that story and yeah, he
34:50
was sacked the next day. And it's interesting.
34:52
I don't know if you notice, don't know how much you would
34:55
read into this necessarily, but he's not done anything since
34:57
he's the Amory. I don't know if he's going to be
34:59
a big, you know what I mean? Like.
34:59
Yeah, really. Sounds interesting.
35:01
Now, the fact the fanbase have picked up on that and, you know,
35:04
and I'm kind of called it out, you know, there's no statement.
35:06
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I've seen that around.
35:08
So no, that's, that's very interesting.
35:10
Brilliant work. Jamie, have to give give that to
35:12
you in terms of the questioning because not all reporters do
35:15
that. Yeah, my ears just picked up.
35:17
I couldn't believe he was set on Christmas Eve.
35:19
I could not believe he was say I now, you know, realise I'm not
35:22
going to get this money. I was thinking that that is a
35:24
check, you know, something's happened here.
35:25
Well, you know, etcetera, etcetera.
35:27
What? See what?
35:28
Just a very quick aside. In a previous Manchester United
35:33
media world, let's say when Van Hal was the manager, even
35:37
Mourinho, I might not have gotten even a second follow up
35:40
question. Never mind the third follow up
35:42
question, which was the one that's mentioned.
35:45
They were very quiet. What was the oldest lady's name?
35:49
Karen Shop Ball. Yeah, because she was sharp.
35:52
She would shut you guys down like after one question, right?
35:55
You don't normally get follow-ups.
35:58
Yeah, because she was and and enough to she, she was sort of
36:01
Sir Alex Ferguson's, you know, she was, how can I say she's
36:04
part of this, his club. And you know what he was like
36:06
control everything. You listen, I respect all that.
36:08
But what I'm saying is, is it's just, you know, just for anyone
36:10
who's half in trend, if you're a journalist, sometimes it's the
36:14
follow up question. Yes, the second one or the third
36:17
one that that maybe gets the one question.
36:19
It's very difficult because it's that the person you're asking,
36:21
if you don't want to answer, they could bat it away.
36:23
But if you're hitting the right sort of, if it's a, if it's a
36:27
sort of what do you call it, a source bar, you know, there's a
36:31
way of sort of anyway, so yeah, you're just probing them.
36:34
So yeah, I mean good. Stuff.
36:39
You know, on the one hand, I like that they went for who they
36:41
thought was the sort of upcoming star of European football.
36:44
I get, you know, I think that's good.
36:45
You know this, you know, the head coach we but I just feel
36:51
could they have could they have said to, you know, how are you
36:54
going to react? You know, before they gave him
36:56
the job, could they have? Maybe they did.
36:57
But if he did, what did they ask him?
37:00
Reuben, What? What are you going to do if like
37:02
we say, she don't want this player or or if or if you're
37:04
free for free isn't working and we want you to change it Now,
37:07
maybe they did have those conversations.
37:08
He said to them, I'm not changing my 3-4 free and they
37:11
accepted that. But actually the way it was
37:13
played out, they didn't accept it because in the end, Wilcox, I
37:15
think, talked to him. Ameren yeah, I'm sort of said
37:18
that I think you need to change it's 3-4 free because it's not
37:21
going particularly well. But again, why, why employ a guy
37:25
who's got this 343 all the time is saying I'm never going to
37:28
change whatever the poll, yes, why do it if you're not, You
37:32
know, if it's not going to work, it's not the United Way, is it?
37:35
You know, I mean, you know, I think, listen, you should be,
37:39
you know, Ferguson did this, Ferguson, some of that set up,
37:41
you know, really, really sort of compact in Europe.
37:43
But the point is you have an underlying thing, don't you,
37:45
United where, you know, Ferguson, Busby, whoever.
37:48
It's like glamorous football. You know, you're the sport.
37:51
As you tell me, you don't want to lose.
37:52
Course you don't. But if you're going to lose,
37:54
you're going to lose. Going down fighting, Well, that
37:55
was amazing, Yes, rather than yeah.
37:57
Exactly 1 nil in passing forwards risk, yeah.
38:01
Yeah, and that's just to just to end, just to end on Michael
38:05
Carrick, because he seems to have brought those vibes back
38:08
for us fans in three games. So yeah, what do you make of it?
38:11
Have any OS landed on their feet of this appointment?
38:16
That's good question. What I like about on the one
38:18
hand, he's he's the anti Amarin in press conferences.
38:21
So he's very cool. You know, he doesn't want to
38:23
give anything away to people like me, but in the way which he
38:25
does it, I think it's just naturally him.
38:26
It's not like he's uptight. And I don't know what to say.
38:29
I'm just going to. It's just like he's very, very
38:30
calm. He's actually a natural in a
38:32
way. Like, he played like he played
38:34
in in midfield, right? He played like.
38:35
That exactly, exactly, very. But as you're saying, the actual
38:39
football is good on it. You know, it's I mean that game
38:42
on Sunday, free turn. Listen, I'm lucky enough to have
38:46
been there in the last 1213 years.
38:48
That was like my first. I think I love reporting on
38:50
that. I mean that finish Cesco
38:52
Stratford End comes on as the sun.
38:55
Wasn't it? Yeah.
38:55
Top corner, Yeah. You must have loved that, right?
38:58
You must have loved it. I got scared because I had a
39:00
feeling of like the 2008 team in terms of the way we were playing
39:05
the football. Like, you know, it was a little
39:07
bit of a throwback, right? The way we were passing the ball
39:11
in midfield, yeah. Look, I'm actually reporting a
39:15
couple of times where I say there was like an easy flow to
39:17
your. It was like very buccaneering.
39:18
You just passed, you know, it was sort of like really, really.
39:21
Yeah, yeah. Like basically we just said like
39:23
the old United Way. And I sort of said in the report
39:25
it's not been seen and not been seen or seen too rarely in
39:28
recent years, basically sort of since Ferguson left, really.
39:31
I mean, Soul Shower was probably the closest, right, in terms of
39:34
buccaneering style. So, you know, is, is is, you
39:38
know, it's always fascinating to report on Manchester United
39:40
because it's just a sort of story machine and all the rest.
39:43
I'm really interested. How many games left now?
39:45
14, Is it under him? 15, I'm really interested,
39:49
unfortunately, how he goes. Yeah.
39:52
I don't think, I don't think Carrick is going to die
39:55
wondering. I think he's going to, you know,
39:57
he's going to strike a balance between not being silly, but I
40:01
think his thing is. You know, he's brought up under
40:04
Ferguson. He's going to he's going to be
40:05
an attacking dude, yes. And I think fans wherever,
40:09
wherever he succeeds or not. And when I say succeed top four,
40:13
top five would be success or not, I don't I don't think.
40:16
I think at the end of it fans are still going to like love him
40:19
as he didn't play a sort of thing.
40:20
Final question on United, if he delivers Champions League, does
40:25
he get the perm job? That's such a good question,
40:29
love it. Listen, if, if, if, if he's
40:34
playing, you know, if he's playing, if he's doing what
40:36
we're talking about, continue to play, you know, Manchester
40:39
United, Ferguson, Busby, you know, George Best, Rooney,
40:42
Ronaldo stuff, you know what I'm saying?
40:44
Sort of like attacking. Why not?
40:47
Now people will say, Oh yeah, but look, it happened with
40:48
Social. It just because it happened with
40:50
one person doesn't mean to say the next person who's who's had
40:52
the successor interim is going to necessarily go the same way.
40:55
Actually, Social did finish second, third.
40:58
I know that's not good enough at United, but you know, second,
41:01
sorry, 3rd, 2nd and the and the last Europa League final.
41:04
He wasn't that far away from being like, you know, pretty
41:07
successful, you know, yeah, I would give it to him.
41:09
Why would you not? Listen?
41:10
I think the first choice is too cool still, but will too cool go
41:14
there if I don't know. You've got Wilcox basically
41:17
telling Thomas Dukel's won the Champions League, you know,
41:19
exactly Bundesliga. So I said I don't know.
41:24
I don't know. I I would give it to Carrie.
41:27
I'm not a fan, right. But for me, and I know it's
41:31
easier for me to say because I'm not a fan, but say you give it
41:33
to Carrot because he has finished top four and then I
41:36
don't know, by mid-october next season he's sacked.
41:38
So what? You've given the guy a go
41:40
because he's earned it. It didn't work.
41:42
But at the end of the world, you know, you could get in like you
41:46
know, you could get in the sort of that Tony Pulis like manager
41:51
who who who looks better on paper but he's actually bought.
41:54
You're not mean. It's a sport, isn't it?
41:57
After all, the fans are there. The fans aren't there, as we, as
41:59
we all know, for for, you know, for the sort of bottom line of
42:02
like commercial success. They just want to be entertained
42:05
because they pay a lot of money and they love the place to go
42:07
there because it's it's it's alive.
42:08
It's visceral. Yes, it's, you know, it's it's
42:11
life affirming. That's why you got if you like,
42:13
if you love football or sport, then that's what was great about
42:15
this game on on Sunday, you know, the Cesco winner game.
42:18
It was life affirming. I sat there for Wow, that was
42:21
nice. Yeah.
42:21
I'm not even a fan. If you're a fan, more space.
42:24
Yeah, yeah, yeah, wasn't it? Wasn't it?
42:26
If Carrick's doing, yeah, I don't know what you tell me, but
42:30
surely fans would want more of that from him.
42:32
Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, I think a lot of the fan
42:35
base would buy into him being perm if he gets top four.
42:39
And, you know, even if we were just missing out on top four or
42:42
top five, there still might be enough room for him to get it
42:46
because of the way he's playing the football.
42:48
And also he's got the players on side, which I think is massive
42:52
compared to what happened with Reben, right?
42:54
We talked about with Kobe, Maine, you know, you know, he
42:58
seems to be getting out more out of Cesco then, you know, Ruben
43:01
was as well. So yeah, I mean, even to your
43:04
point of like, if you did fire him in October because, like, it
43:08
went wrong next season, Thomas Seacole might be just sitting on
43:11
a beach anyway. Right, Jamie.
43:13
So the one thing that I didn't know until the weekend and
43:16
probably many other sports fans wouldn't know, is that you write
43:19
novels. I've got your latest novel here.
43:22
Tell us about your novel writing.
43:25
Yeah, so that's got our adventures in love.
43:27
That is a tale of sort of acid house era 1992.
43:32
Seventeen year olds fall in love in in Lancaster.
43:37
They they find out who is the local Mr. Big supplying because
43:41
it's like the start of the acid house here is who is supplying,
43:44
let's say the dancing pills to the area.
43:47
They decide to steal 1000. Yeah, decided to steal 1000 of
43:51
these and actually sell them at the last ever legal warehouse
43:56
party and off the the the spoils of selling them run away to beef
44:02
and live forever. Now this this party that they're
44:04
going to sell about actually happened and I went to it was in
44:07
Leeds, even though these these warehouse I was going.
44:10
To say it sounded like a first hand experience I've.
44:15
Made it all up, but the pie was in guildism and actually at the
44:20
time, as a sort of back of the book says that they arrested
44:24
everyone in the real life, partly arrested everyone.
44:28
The 36 people are inside, of which I was one at the time.
44:31
It was the biggest mass arrest in British history.
44:35
They released us all. There's no charges, but I use
44:39
that as a sort of focal point of this story.
44:43
Oh yes, listen, it's teenage romance.
44:45
Partying, dancing, escape to the sun Forever was not to love a
44:51
love it. 90s can't go wrong. Yeah, I'm going to Greece in
44:56
May, so I'll definitely be sitting back on the sun lounger
44:59
reading this. So yeah, we'll put a link in the
45:02
description where people can buy it as well.
45:05
And yeah, it's like I said, it's would never have known this.
45:09
And unless I bumped into you. So the magic of the universe.
45:12
Hey. So yeah, thanks very much.
45:14
Hopefully we'll have you on in the future as well.
45:16
Be great to have you as a friend.
45:18
You are a friend of the pod. Now, officially, we'll send you
45:20
a T-shirt. So thanks for tuning into this
45:24
episode, and we'll catch you on the next one.