Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / The Ingredients to a Winning Routine at Competition

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The Ingredients to a Winning Routine at Competition · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

0:07
SPEAKER_04: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
0:10
SPEAKER_04: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
0:13
SPEAKER_04: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
0:15
SPEAKER_04: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance, from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
0:25
SPEAKER_04: It's the question that's on everyone's mind leading up to competition season.
0:29
SPEAKER_04: What can I do to make sure my routine wins?
0:32
SPEAKER_04: In this episode, you'll hear from two seasoned dance competition judges about the ingredients that make up a winning routine.
0:37
SPEAKER_04: From the big picture to the finer details.
0:41
SPEAKER_02: Hi y'all, it's Courtney Ortiz, and welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact.
0:46
SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, and of course, I am here with my co-host, Leslie Mueller.
0:51
SPEAKER_04: Hello, listeners.
0:52
SPEAKER_02: Hello, Courtney.
0:53
SPEAKER_02: How is everybody doing today?
0:54
SPEAKER_02: I hope everyone's doing great.
0:56
SPEAKER_02: I am doing great.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: I have my sweet little cat Chico sitting right here in my lap joining us for this recording.
1:03
SPEAKER_04: We love an animal friend.
1:05
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
1:06
SPEAKER_02: How's life been going over there for you, Leslie, in New Jersey?
1:09
SPEAKER_04: New Jersey.
1:10
SPEAKER_04: Well, there's tons of fall festival things going on, and the weather is beautiful, and we're finally getting a little bit of foliage, and there's more trees here than there were in Queens.
1:19
SPEAKER_04: So it's really nice to kind of see what fall in suburbia looks like.
1:23
SPEAKER_04: Uh some love in it.
1:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's great.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: I'm happy to be in fall mode as well.
1:29
SPEAKER_02: I love New York City in the fall.
1:31
SPEAKER_02: It's like leather jacket season, beanie season.
1:34
SPEAKER_02: That's my favorite time of year.
1:36
SPEAKER_02: And I've just I've definitely been all over the place.
1:39
SPEAKER_02: I feel like my September that just passed has was crazier than I expected and like unexpectedly crazy.
1:46
SPEAKER_02: I traveled to London with RWS Entertainment and also ran some auditions with them in New York City.
1:51
SPEAKER_02: So it was really cool to uh travel internationally and see some of the talent overseas in London for some cruise ship opportunities.
2:00
SPEAKER_02: Really, really fun stuff.
2:01
SPEAKER_02: I love that I'm able to uh incorporate that into my career.
2:04
SPEAKER_02: It's just like a whole new adventure, but I'm loving every second of it.
2:08
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's awesome.
2:09
SPEAKER_04: I think that's nice to just make the impact around the world as you're doing.
2:13
SPEAKER_04: But yeah, I agree.
2:14
SPEAKER_04: It's been a very very weird um like we we thought summer was busy and then all of a sudden we're in the fall.
2:20
SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, where are my weekends?
2:21
SPEAKER_04: I thought I had weekends.
2:22
SPEAKER_04: I know I just I'm busy.
2:24
SPEAKER_02: You're busy, we're all busy.
2:26
SPEAKER_02: I know.
2:26
SPEAKER_02: And we are still trying to find a time for me to come out over to see your new home in Montclair.
2:31
SPEAKER_02: And it is just truly impossible with our crazy schedules.
2:35
SPEAKER_04: Liter literally impossible.
2:36
SPEAKER_04: So we'll see.
2:37
SPEAKER_04: I I haven't really had many people over anyway because again, it's scheduling is hard and people live everywhere.
2:42
SPEAKER_04: But I'm like, oh, I gotta have a housewarming party at some point.
2:44
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
2:45
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
2:45
SPEAKER_04: And maybe it's gonna have to be like individual housewarming parties because I'm not gonna be able to schedule anything for everybody to be able to come.
2:51
SPEAKER_04: So I feel you.
2:53
SPEAKER_02: I feel you.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
2:55
SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm excited for this week's episode.
2:59
SPEAKER_02: This is a a competition style episode that we wanted to put early on in the season as everyone starts prepping and planning a lot of their choreography and continues to tweak and adjust and drill and clean their dances as this the competition season is quickly approaching, y'all.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: And we're talking about what makes a winning dance routine today with two spectacular IDA judges as guests.
3:24
SPEAKER_02: But before we jump into this week's episode, we want to tell you about some of our sponsors on season five of Making the Impact.
3:32
SPEAKER_02: Our sponsor for this week's episode is Young Arts, an organization that has been a part of my life for the past 15 years.
3:39
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3:44
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4:01
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4:07
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4:12
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4:16
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4:23
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4:56
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5:00
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5:04
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5:07
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5:49
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5:53
SPEAKER_02: Alright, Dance World, it's time to jump into this week's episode of Making the Impact, and I'm so excited for this one.
5:59
SPEAKER_02: We're talking about competitive dances today.
6:03
SPEAKER_02: Those winning routines that you see steal that first place overall slot at competitions throughout the season.
6:10
SPEAKER_02: We're going to talk all about what makes a winning routine and why that dance got first, maybe over your dance.
6:18
SPEAKER_02: Or maybe you were the first place winner last season and you're hoping to continue to be the first place winner into the 2024 season.
6:25
SPEAKER_02: We're going to share all of our tips and tricks, things we've loved that we've seen on stage, things that we may not have loved that we've seen on stage from some veteran judges who are joining us.
6:35
SPEAKER_02: IDA judges are in the house and two brand new guests to our podcast, which I am so excited about.
6:42
SPEAKER_02: The very first guest that I would like to welcome has been on the roster for many, many years.
6:46
SPEAKER_02: I've had the pleasure of meeting her in person up in Maine once or twice before.
6:52
SPEAKER_02: I'm excited to welcome Andrea Tracy to our podcast.
6:55
SPEAKER_02: Welcome, Andrea.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: Hello.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
6:58
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
6:59
SPEAKER_02: So happy to finally have you on the podcast.
7:01
SPEAKER_02: I feel like it's been a long time waiting.
7:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm excited.
7:05
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: And I know you've done your fair share of judging through the years and you're always booked.
7:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yes, for sure.
7:12
SPEAKER_02: Booked and blessed.
7:14
SPEAKER_02: Love it.
7:15
SPEAKER_02: Well, um, if you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit more about you, where you currently reside, where you grew up, any career credits, and what you're currently working on.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: Well, as you said, I'm from Maine.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: That's actually where I grew up, but I have uh worked all around the country.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: I studied in New York at School of American Ballet for a little bit and stuff like that.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: But I, a couple of my career credits are I represented the United States when I was 14 in Japan in a ballet and modern dance competition.
7:46
unknown: Wow.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: And I was a professional dancer for ballet and contemporary and modern for 20 years.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: And then a fun little fact is in the mid-90s, I was in a music video on MTV and VH1.
7:59
SPEAKER_02: I would have I wish that I was in a music video on MTV.
8:02
SPEAKER_02: I watch TRL every day.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I need to, I have to go into like the depths of my records and and find it and post it because it's quite a trip to watch.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: It's pretty funny.
8:13
SPEAKER_02: I need to see it.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then currently I am a mother of two and I teach at a local dance school here, choreographing, teaching, and then judging and all of that.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: So that's my main focus right now.
8:26
SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
8:27
SPEAKER_02: And the season is gonna sneak up on us sooner, like as soon as possible, I'm sure.
8:31
SPEAKER_02: It's already October, but it's gonna be here before we know it.
8:35
SPEAKER_02: So I'm sure that you're ready to hit the ground running, judging all season long.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm super excited for this season.
8:41
SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
8:41
SPEAKER_02: Well, we're grateful to have you here today on this chat.
8:44
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for joining us.
8:46
SPEAKER_02: All right, and our next very special guest is joining us from New York City.
8:50
SPEAKER_02: He is a Broadway veteran.
8:52
SPEAKER_02: I've had the opportunity to even watch him perform in musicals, and he is so talented.
8:58
SPEAKER_02: I'm excited to welcome IDA judge Jodie Renard to the podcast.
9:02
SPEAKER_02: Welcome, Jody.
9:03
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to be here.
9:06
SPEAKER_01: Finally.
9:08
SPEAKER_04: Finally, I know.
9:09
SPEAKER_04: Listen, we gotta save some people.
9:11
SPEAKER_04: We can't, we can't just like shove everybody into season one.
9:15
SPEAKER_02: And we have so many amazing judges on the podcast and to be on the podcast, but also on our roster, that sometimes it's just a matter of waiting for that perfect episode that works with your schedule, works with our schedule, and is something that you're passionate that you want to talk about.
9:30
SPEAKER_02: And here we are today with two brand new guests.
9:32
SPEAKER_02: So I'm so happy that you're finally here joining us.
9:34
SPEAKER_02: And I know that while when you're not in a musical or on Broadway, you're probably judging a dance competition.
9:40
SPEAKER_01: That is very true.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: Very, very true.
9:43
SPEAKER_02: So, Jody, if you wouldn't mind sharing with the world a little bit more about you.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
9:48
SPEAKER_01: I came into dance late.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: I went to a performing at high school and I switched to a dance major in my senior year.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: I helped to form a dance ensemble in my college.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: It was called Wings because we took flight.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: And from there, I moved to New York City and I've been blessed and booked ever since six Broadway shows and counting five national tours.
10:15
SPEAKER_02: What shows are you able to share?
10:17
SPEAKER_01: I can share the shows.
10:18
SPEAKER_01: I made my Broadway debut from an open call with the late grade N ranking, seeing me, and I went into Fosse, and then I started my Broadway disco career with Saturday Night Fever.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: I did Taboo, which is the Boy George musical, and then Legally Blonde, Everyone Loves the Pink.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: And Legally Blonde, I was fortunate enough to be in the closing company of that.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: And then I went on to do Summer, the Donna Summer musical.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: And then a little melancholy with Broadway almost made my Broadway play debut in Thoughts of a Colored Man technically still cast in the show, even though I never hit the stage.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: So there were music.
11:01
SPEAKER_02: You know what's really cool about hearing all the shows that you've done is that they've spanned throughout many different decades, even with Fosse.
11:09
SPEAKER_02: I mean, what year was that when you did Fossey?
11:12
SPEAKER_01: That was 1999.
11:13
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
11:14
SPEAKER_02: And then you were in Dana Summer, which was like a few minutes ago.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: It was 2018.
11:20
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, you've had a 20-year career on Broadway.
11:25
SPEAKER_02: It's amazing.
11:26
SPEAKER_02: And what a way to like exactly and still counting.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: And what an amazing show to kick off with Fossey.
11:33
SPEAKER_02: I mean, was that just a dream?
11:34
SPEAKER_01: It was unbelievable.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: I had seen their out-of-town tryout in Boston.
11:39
SPEAKER_01: So the fact that it was less than six months and I was on stage with a lot of those people, it just kind of blew my mind.
11:47
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
11:47
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
11:48
SPEAKER_02: I and did you have a chance to see Dancing on Broadway?
11:51
SPEAKER_01: I unfortunately did not see Dancing.
11:54
SPEAKER_01: It was like I just started teaching at Amda.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: So it was working with my schedule there because a lot of their later semester students, their classes are at night.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: So it was hard to kind of juggle.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: And then I I got so exhausted.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: It takes a lot to teach, as I'm sure we all can relate to.
12:15
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.
12:16
SPEAKER_04: And it's a different vibe teaching college students too.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes.
12:19
SPEAKER_04: Different kind of exhaustion.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and various levels too.
12:22
SPEAKER_01: They're dance majors, and then they have what's called the integrated program.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: So that's uh music theater students.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: So some of them have never had any dance training at all.
12:33
SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
12:33
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
12:34
SPEAKER_02: So it's like back to basics with these with these dancers.
12:37
SPEAKER_02: Indeed.
12:37
SPEAKER_02: Who are like probably amazing singers and actors, and they need to get a little bit of dancing under their belt so they can be prepared for, you know, whatever's thrown at them when they book Broadway.
12:48
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
12:49
SPEAKER_02: Got it.
12:49
SPEAKER_02: Well, what a perfect person to learn that from with you as such a seasoned veteran.
12:53
SPEAKER_02: And also, like you said, starting dance a little bit later, I'm sure that you could very much relate to those students, you know, looking back.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: Because I was like, was baptized with fire.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: I got thrown into an advanced belly class, and I didn't know what a Tambay Pas de Bure was.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: I was just like, oh, the feet just kind of go and keep the heels forward.
13:17
SPEAKER_01: Ish.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah.
13:19
SPEAKER_02: So amazing.
13:21
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
13:21
SPEAKER_02: Well, congrats on all your beautiful Broadway success and and into the future as well.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure you'll be back on Broadway any day now.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
13:31
SPEAKER_02: You're so welcome.
13:32
SPEAKER_02: Over here in IDA World, we're happy to have you as one of our judges, and you are out and about all season long judging dance competitions, which I think is something I want to get to, Leslie, is the fact that Jody didn't really grow up in the competition scene.
13:46
SPEAKER_02: And Andrea, did you grow up in the competition scene?
13:49
SPEAKER_00: I did partially actually.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: I was doing a lot of performances even when I was still in junior high and high school, um, but at the professional level, more ballets and contemporary stuff.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: But we did competition maybe once or twice a year, but it was not the main focus.
14:07
SPEAKER_00: And I had teachers that, you know, were competition teachers, but I also had, as I was saying, uh Russian teachers um earlier when we were chatting, that their main focus was, you know, training for the professional ballet world.
14:19
SPEAKER_00: So I kind of had my foot in both, you know, pools or whatever.
14:24
SPEAKER_00: And um so I feel like that's interesting when I'm look when I'm judging now because I look at routines kind of from both sides.
14:32
SPEAKER_00: You know, so yeah.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: So I didn't grow up like hardcore competing, but just, you know, a little bit.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: I had to find that balance between the serious training and focusing on routines.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:44
SPEAKER_04: And I think that's, you know, that's a great sort of segue, Courtney, into this conversation.
14:49
SPEAKER_04: Because when we're thinking about a winning routine, yes, it's a very general sort of topic, but it's coming like depending on where you are, the perspective of who is awarding you this winning prize is important to consider.
15:02
SPEAKER_04: Because if you've got a judge, if you've got a panel of judges of Jody's who have Broadway experience, didn't grow up competing, you know, teach at the collegiate level.
15:10
SPEAKER_04: I know Jody, you teach children as well.
15:12
SPEAKER_04: But your perspective on what is going to make a winning routine is going to be different than possibly Andrea's, who comes from a little bit more of a ballet background, maybe a little less competition, you know, and from a different part of the country.
15:23
SPEAKER_04: Like, so I think that's something important for everyone who's listening to to think about is, you know, it is all subjective and it has to do a lot with the people behind the table, which is why here at IDA, plug for IDA, we try to put, you know, qualified, background checked, you know, people with different but valuable perspectives behind the table.
15:43
SPEAKER_04: So you're not just getting Joe Schmoe, who did like a kickball change once and is now a dance competition judge.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think the diversity behind the table is super important.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
15:52
SPEAKER_02: And especially like even, you know, on Jody's end.
15:56
SPEAKER_02: And I know even at for me, and I'm sure all of us can relate, but like when I started doing musical theater, I started to understand stories completely different.
16:06
SPEAKER_02: I I feel like the intention behind what I do as a dancer has completely shifted my view of dance whenever I do a piece, whenever I watch a dance, whenever I judge a dance, entirely.
16:18
SPEAKER_02: If I didn't have that musical theater experience in performing in shows that like everything means something, like it's like driving the story.
16:27
SPEAKER_02: I didn't think about that when I was a competition dancer.
16:30
SPEAKER_02: No one talked about storyline and intention.
16:32
SPEAKER_02: We just made sure our technique was good, made sure our execution was great, and we would win.
16:36
SPEAKER_02: And now I think it's gotten bigger than that for a lot of people.
16:39
SPEAKER_02: And again, like you said, the diversity of who's sitting behind that table.
16:43
SPEAKER_02: I think especially a lot of like musical theater-based judges expect there to be a thorough, it doesn't always have to have a story, but I think that the dancers need to understand what they're dancing about.
16:54
SPEAKER_02: Right.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: Indeed.
16:55
SPEAKER_01: I would say it's less about a story because as you get into more contemporary pieces and even for some lyrical pieces, the story isn't the main focus per se.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: For me, it's about the connection and the intention of movement throughout the piece.
17:12
SPEAKER_01: Because I see a lot of times a dancer will start and they'll get to a movement or a skill that they really enjoy, and their face will be connected to it and they will light up, and then they will drop all of their countenance before they going to the next movement.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: So I think musical theater has helped, I know, in my personal experience, to just carry it throughout to know that the piece starts as soon as you enter the stage, and it doesn't end until you are out of the judge's view or out of the audience's view.
17:42
SPEAKER_04: I think it starts beforehand, actually, mentally.
17:45
SPEAKER_04: I think yeah, well, yeah.
17:46
SPEAKER_04: I mean, and especially with anything like storytelling-wise, something happened before you came on stage.
17:52
SPEAKER_04: Something was the impetus for me to come out here and do this dance.
17:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you have to get in the character or the mood or whatever it is before.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: And I've always said, and I say this in my critiques a lot, is I don't always need to fully understand what the story is or whatever, but I need to understand when I'm watching that you all understand that you are all on the same mental wavelength and focus so that I understand that we're all on the same, we all have the same vision, the same.
18:20
SPEAKER_00: So some people, you know, they give lots of emotion, or I can tell they have a story.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: And in that same piece, someone else isn't giving that same emotion or clarity.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: And so for me, I just want everyone to be on the same understanding of what the piece is, what is the focus?
18:35
SPEAKER_00: Because as Jody was saying, in contemporary and modern dance, and especially in the professional world, there is a lot of times not a spelled out story, right?
18:44
SPEAKER_00: It's more just an intention, a vibe, a focus.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: So as long as that is cohesive amongst all the dancers, then I think that's a strong starting point.
18:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:54
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love that, guys.
18:55
SPEAKER_02: But I feel like that a lot of times, like like you said, it's an it might not be spelled out for you.
19:02
SPEAKER_02: But I do feel like that it might need to be more than it is currently to the dancers, because they're training dancers that don't understand how to like dig deep and find emotion without it being given to them or told to them.
19:19
SPEAKER_02: So I think that I personally can tell that those types of conversations about intention or story aren't happening in the choreography rehearsals and they need to be.
19:30
SPEAKER_02: And the dances that are winning are very, very clear with everyone's on the same page.
19:36
SPEAKER_02: We know what the story is.
19:37
SPEAKER_02: Like I might not, I might not know.
19:39
SPEAKER_02: Like you said, Andrea, I might not know what the story is, but you know what the story is.
19:43
SPEAKER_02: And good for you for talking about that, good for you for like approaching it with the right intention across the board.
19:49
SPEAKER_02: Because there's always going to be somebody in the back that I'm looking at and I can tell if you're not giving the same.
19:54
SPEAKER_02: It shouldn't be led by one person downstage center.
19:57
SPEAKER_02: Everyone collectively in the group has to be on the same page.
20:00
SPEAKER_02: And that could be like a make or break moment, honestly, too, when it comes to performance execution and absolutely intention.
20:07
SPEAKER_04: So that's kind of ingredient number one that we all agree on is you have to have some kind of intention that's clear and not spelled out, but clear enough to the people doing it that we as the audience understand that you know what you're talking about.
20:21
SPEAKER_04: So that's number one.
20:22
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you said not spelled out, and I said it too, but I will say there are some storylines where it does really need to be spelled out.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: And especially maybe sometimes in certain musical theater pieces.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: So it again, it just has to be very clear and everyone on the same wavelength.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:36
SPEAKER_02: But does the choreographer even have know the intention?
20:40
SPEAKER_02: Like that's yeah, that's my other question.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: See, that can be another problem.
20:43
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: They don't know why the dance is happening, or at least to be able to empower the dancers to do it.
20:50
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, that's a whole nother podcast, I think.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: Honestly, I think you're right.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: Season six.
20:57
SPEAKER_00: I think it comes down to the choreographer doing their research too, you know, depending on what the subject matter is, or you know, again, from musical theater, have we researched what this musical is?
21:08
SPEAKER_00: Not just this song.
21:09
SPEAKER_00: Oh, this song sounds great, but what is happening in the musical at this point?
21:15
SPEAKER_00: You know, and because that's when I'm looking at, you know, something from Wicked or whatever, I'm looking at it as if it was part of the show.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: And we're just seeing that excerpt.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: So it needs to, for me, really stay true to what I would see on the stage.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: Not necessarily the exact choreography, but just the the mood and the vibe and the story.
21:35
SPEAKER_04: And if you're gonna choose to take something like a musical theater piece out of context, you better do it so far out of context that I'm like, what is this brand new piece of art?
21:45
SPEAKER_00: Because that's an interesting take on it.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:49
SPEAKER_04: I've seen it attempted, and you can sort of tell, like, oh, I know where you were going, and it's not landing because you didn't go far enough.
21:56
SPEAKER_04: Right.
21:56
SPEAKER_04: So, like that, that again, like if you can go far enough with something.
22:00
SPEAKER_04: Out of the box, that might be a winning routine because you have surprised me.
22:04
SPEAKER_04: Right.
22:04
SPEAKER_04: You know?
22:04
SPEAKER_04: I want to see more of that actually.
22:06
SPEAKER_04: Because, like, could do we really need to see any more uh wicked?
22:10
SPEAKER_04: No.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: No.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: Popular?
22:11
SPEAKER_00: No, that was the first one that popped up in my head.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: But you listen, I like wicked.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
22:17
SPEAKER_01: I mean, yes, but it's just overdone, overdone, overdone.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: I guess that leads to another like tenet of what makes a winning routine is if you pick something that's done over and over again.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: I mean, wicked for musical theater.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: But I mean, how many more dances do we need to see to jar of hearts?
22:34
SPEAKER_01: Right.
22:35
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I don't.
22:36
SPEAKER_02: No.
22:37
SPEAKER_02: You know, thank you.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: It's and again, that kind of goes back to the choreographer.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: Have they done the research with intention of the piece?
22:43
SPEAKER_01: But have you done the research to be like, how often is the song done at a competition?
22:47
SPEAKER_02: 100%.
22:48
SPEAKER_02: Is this absolutely are you current with what's active in the industry?
22:53
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's a part of being a smart choreographer.
22:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, you don't, you know, you don't want to just go to a comp and be like, oh my God, that song is so cute.
23:01
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna use it next season, even though it was the song of the season, and now you're doing the song of the season next year when we really don't want to hear it again.
23:08
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
23:09
SPEAKER_02: Like you have to be active.
23:11
SPEAKER_02: And I think that the hard part is that a lot of choreographers might be homegrown studio choreographers that don't get escape outside of their studio and they might only attend the comps that their studio goes to.
23:22
SPEAKER_02: So then they don't really know what else is going on in the industry besides what they just saw at their competition.
23:28
SPEAKER_02: Yes, we have social media, obviously, but like it's no different.
23:32
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
23:33
SPEAKER_02: It's like a it's a love-hate for me because I feel like what happens is that everyone just watches what's at like the award-winning nationals, like what wins at nationals on social media.
23:44
SPEAKER_02: They go on the YouTube, they go onto the competitions page, they see what won, they hear the song, and then everyone thinks that's the song we need to use next year.
23:52
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, okay, I guess you're sort of doing research, but also that's not it either.
23:56
SPEAKER_02: Like, that's not gonna automatically mean you're gonna win because you use the song that won at XYZ competition.
24:03
SPEAKER_02: Right.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you mentioned YouTube.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: I I go on YouTube, but I go on for a different reason.
24:07
SPEAKER_00: If I find a song I kind of want to use, I actually go on YouTube and see how many dances are posted with this.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: And if it's not smart.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: If it's if it's honestly, I don't even know, even more than five, nope, I'm moving on.
24:19
SPEAKER_00: Or I suggest that if you do want to use a popular song, that your take on it is so different that I'm like, whoa, I never looked at this song in this way or thought of that.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: It if you're gonna use a crazy popular song, to me, it has to be a completely different intention and vibe at this point.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: And we're also at a point musically where there's so many different types of covers of a popular song.
24:45
SPEAKER_01: So it's worth researching to find like this off the wall, like for something that's very like pop, if there's some real slow ballady acoustic version of it.
24:56
SPEAKER_01: That would interest me definitely as an adjudicator.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I find myself perking up when that kind of stuff comes on.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, whoa, this is an interesting version of this song.
25:04
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, or a song I've never heard before, because that's more again, that's more interesting to me than the same thing over and over again.
25:12
SPEAKER_04: And, you know, we have this conversation all the time.
25:14
SPEAKER_04: Like, there's so much music out there, guys.
25:16
SPEAKER_04: It's everywhere.
25:17
SPEAKER_04: There's so much.
25:18
SPEAKER_04: Like, please give, please give other artists a chance, you know, and other other of their albums a chance.
25:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was teaching at a studio uh last week in New Jersey, and one of the teachers was just kind of like observing my class, and I was just teaching jazz class, playing my regular jazz playlist on Spotify that I've spent years curating.
25:36
SPEAKER_02: Honestly, anytime I hear a song that I'm like, oh, this is a bop, I add it to my jazz playlist.
25:41
SPEAKER_02: Like, that's just what I do.
25:43
SPEAKER_02: And the teacher came up to me and they were like, So where do you find all your music?
25:47
SPEAKER_02: Like it's just, it's just so fun.
25:49
SPEAKER_02: And like, where'd you find it?
25:50
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I literally have been curating it for years.
25:54
SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know why other teachers don't do that.
25:57
SPEAKER_02: Like, and then she's like, but like, what?
25:59
SPEAKER_02: I've never even heard some of these songs.
26:00
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, if you find an artist.
26:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
26:03
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, first that's the point.
26:05
SPEAKER_02: Second, like, if you find an artist that you love, or if you hear a song at competition and you're like, Oh, I loved this style, I love this artist, I love their voice, go to Shazam it, then don't just use that song.
26:16
SPEAKER_02: Go to the album, listen to all the other songs.
26:19
SPEAKER_02: There might be another hit on that album.
26:21
SPEAKER_02: Listen to their other albums.
26:23
SPEAKER_02: Like, there's so much more than just that one song that you heard that you think you need to use.
26:28
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
26:29
SPEAKER_02: Unless you're like truly completely inspired by it and you are gonna do something so different, like we've talked about.
26:35
SPEAKER_02: But like, I think the what makes judging fun and interesting is like we've talked about not being predictable, giving us something that is going to just make us like fly out of our seats in excitement, in storytelling, in anything that's just not what we would expect.
26:54
SPEAKER_02: Like, we already have an expectation when I look at the program and I see what song you're using.
26:59
SPEAKER_02: I already have an idea in my head as to what you're about to present.
27:03
SPEAKER_02: If you completely change it up and blow my mind, I'm gonna remember that dance.
27:08
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
27:09
SPEAKER_02: It's not gonna be another Moulin Rouge production.
27:11
SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be something else that's gonna like blow my mind and be like, wow, oh my god, they took this in a completely different way.
27:18
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't know how you can really do Moulin Rouge different, but that's another station because like Moulin Rouge children.
27:26
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
27:26
SPEAKER_04: I know.
27:34
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27:39
SPEAKER_02: Young Arts hosts a national arts competition where artists in over 10 different disciplines can submit to be considered as one of the best in their field.
27:47
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28:00
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28:04
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28:09
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28:18
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28:21
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28:26
SPEAKER_02: If you are in grades 10 through 12, head to their website to learn more and apply now before it's too late at youngarts.org slash apply.
28:35
SPEAKER_02: Thank you to Young Arts for continuing to support me as one of your alumni and for supporting our podcast.
28:47
SPEAKER_04: Alright, so so ingredient number two is like proper song choice, interesting song choice, interesting theme choice.
28:54
SPEAKER_04: Blow our minds.
28:55
SPEAKER_04: What about so this is this is where people I think are gonna get very sticky.
28:59
SPEAKER_04: What about execution?
29:01
SPEAKER_04: Because a winning routine is not full of people who can't do skills, right?
29:05
SPEAKER_04: True.
29:06
SPEAKER_04: Right.
29:06
SPEAKER_01: So are we expecting perfection or are we tiptoeing up to the whole trick question?
29:14
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: Because don't get me wrong, I like for my mind to be blown as I'm sitting behind the table.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: It's like, let me see something that I'm not expecting from these younger dancers.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: But I feel like we're in an era where I'll I'll uh qualify this by saying, in my own humble opinion, I feel like where we it seems that studios are training to do more tricks than they are for technique.
29:43
SPEAKER_01: And again, I'm not trying to be anti-trick, but if all you can offer, or if it seems that all your dancers can offer is a trick, I've already checked out because I can already see that they're going to go to one point of the stage, do a trick, and then walk almost pedestrian-like, to another point of the stage to perform the next trick.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: So for me, it's the predictability.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: The predictability of it, absolutely.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: I want to see a trick that comes out of something technical.
30:12
SPEAKER_01: I want to see, like we've been talking about connecting to that music, give me that intention, carry it through.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: As I say when I'm adjudicating, I need to see that choreographic connective tissue.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: Show me a good pot of beret, triple it across that stage, give me a little tap step, something to get you from one point of the stage to the other and engage us.
30:35
SPEAKER_01: It's like carry the movement through.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: Don't give me this fantastic trick and then walk to the next point of the stage.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: And usually with the emotional countenance gone as well, and then going into the next skill or whatever it is.
30:51
SPEAKER_00: I think technique and transitions are definitely come before tricks.
30:56
SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of what I'm seeing lacking a lot out there.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: And as as Jody was saying, you can I can predict what trick is coming or whatever.
31:07
SPEAKER_00: And I just I want to be caught off guard and not necessarily by tricks, but just by movement quality and transitions.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: But technique for me is the absolute base.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: I don't care how many aerials you're doing or back hand springs or whatever, if we're not straightening our legs and pointing our feet and using our core or doing or understanding how to do a true contraction, then I'm I'm as well checked out, you know.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: So that's for me kind of the base.
31:34
SPEAKER_02: I feel like that people will hate me for saying this, but I feel like that with the addition to levels at competition, the that that is the excuse to why technique isn't prioritized.
31:46
SPEAKER_02: Because competition is about winning, essentially.
31:50
SPEAKER_02: At the end of the day, people want to win and people think that tricks are what win, not technique.
31:56
SPEAKER_02: So when they see, so because of that mindset, people focus on the tricks, even though they're not training in technique enough, and then just scale it back as far as well, we're just gonna compete in intermediate, we're just gonna compete in beginner because we're really not there yet, technically.
32:14
SPEAKER_02: That is true.
32:16
SPEAKER_02: You should be probably focusing on more of your technique.
32:19
SPEAKER_02: But if you are choosing to be in the beginner level or the intermediate level, I don't need a dance full of tricks.
32:25
SPEAKER_02: I need a dance full of foundational technique.
32:27
SPEAKER_02: If you're just those levels, you shouldn't be doing tricks.
32:30
SPEAKER_02: Right.
32:30
SPEAKER_02: But people, but people use it as an excuse to say, well, my technique's not up to par with the advanced because they take ballet three days a week, and my kid hates ballet, and she only wants to take it once for an hour.
32:43
SPEAKER_02: So they're gonna go into the intermediate.
32:46
SPEAKER_02: But oh my gosh, their switch arabesque is out of this world.
32:50
SPEAKER_02: Their headspring is mind-blowing.
32:52
SPEAKER_02: So they're obviously not a beginner dancer, but they're not an advanced dancer, but their technique's not really up to par.
32:58
SPEAKER_02: Like there's always an excuse.
33:00
SPEAKER_02: And it's like to me, and then that also is another part of how the industry has shifted, I think, in in a bad way, because now we're rewarding technique that's not up to par because you're intermediate.
33:14
SPEAKER_02: And that, and to me, that's not really fair either.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know that you guys, I don't do that, and I know you guys probably don't, so I don't know who is doing that, but I just like rewarding the tech yeah, rewarding well, usually what happens in the intermediate in particular is that the dancers that win an intermediate should be in in advance.
33:33
SPEAKER_02: So we're rewarding what you know is actually great.
33:37
SPEAKER_00: I think Courtney, you I think I've heard you say this before and we share the same opinion.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: That intermediate level is the worst.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: And that's what happens.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: You know, I wish there was like recreational and then whatever, competitive or pre-professional or whatever the two.
33:51
SPEAKER_00: I just wish there was two categories.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: Just two.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: That's all we hide in that intermediate level when really they should be in advance doing the tricks that they're doing.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: And and they might not win in advanced.
34:03
SPEAKER_02: They might not win, and that's why they don't do it.
34:05
SPEAKER_02: That's why.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just have, you know, even a different yes, it's about winning, but it's about improving and personal best.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: And when I'm judging, I'm judging you to help you improve as a dancer and take that information with you into wherever dance takes you.
34:20
SPEAKER_00: That's I'm trying to help you get further into the next step of competitive dance or pre-professional or whatever it is.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: I'm not just giving you advice that will that I think will help you win.
34:29
SPEAKER_00: Right.
34:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean, yes, it hopefully will, but that's not the main focus for me.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: And as we've been saying, like adjudication and I mean just performing arts in general, when you're put in front of a panel, it's subjective.
34:43
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you make a sports analogy with this, it's like all of these athletes are competing to go to the Olympics and everything.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: They obviously have the skill, they've qualified to get there and everything, but on the day, right, they could totally lose it.
34:57
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean they're less of an athlete.
34:59
SPEAKER_04: Right.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: It just means at that moment in time, they didn't have it, but they still have all of the rudimentary skills to have gotten them there.
35:09
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like in competitive dance, we're not stressing that.
35:14
SPEAKER_03: Right.
35:14
SPEAKER_01: It's like you need to know from ton dude to ton de flesh to a la second to bring it into fuetes.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: Turned out, mind you.
35:23
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
35:23
SPEAKER_01: But still, I mean, I feel like we're missing those steps, and we're just going to, I'm just gonna teach you how to do a turning disc.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna teach you how to get to second position.
35:33
SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right.
35:34
SPEAKER_00: That's where like the fo that's the focus, is that right, yeah, you're right, you might have an off day, um, but it's not the end all be all.
35:40
SPEAKER_02: Right.
35:41
SPEAKER_00: And I just the mindset needs to shift a little bit.
35:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, even like like with your example, Jody, but uh like with the turning disc, I always teach basics everywhere I go.
35:52
SPEAKER_02: And I obviously, when I start working with the uh studio as a guest teacher, I don't know their level if they're new to me.
35:59
SPEAKER_02: So I just kind of get put some feelers out and we just do some technique across the floor.
36:03
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, okay, we're gonna do two Shannae, two Piquet turns.
36:06
SPEAKER_02: That but the dancers are like, all right, I want to do calypsos.
36:09
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, well, you can't do a calyp until your Shannae turn is is clean and beautiful and strong spot, core activated arms are working.
36:17
SPEAKER_02: Your Shannaes were a hot mess.
36:19
SPEAKER_02: So how do you think that you can execute a calypso when you don't even have that first preparation under clear and understood yet?
36:27
SPEAKER_02: Like we can't be skipping ahead of these foundational skills.
36:31
SPEAKER_02: And we talk about it all the time.
36:32
SPEAKER_02: We just did our back to basics episode on the podcast that I hope everyone goes and listens to because it is, we really talk about this in full detail, but I think that when I know for me, like when it comes to a winning routine, I feel like it's a nice combination and blend of there's some tricks in there, sure, why not?
36:51
SPEAKER_02: But also I can tell that you have foundational technique.
36:55
SPEAKER_02: And the choreographer was smart enough to show me that.
36:58
SPEAKER_02: I always am, I'm always excited when I see a pot de bureau or a triplet step.
37:02
SPEAKER_02: Um it it is not like am, it's not baby-ish to do uh a pot de bureau.
37:09
SPEAKER_02: A pot de bureau can be sexy, it can be hot, it can be fire if you do it right.
37:14
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
37:14
SPEAKER_02: But I think people are like it's not hard enough.
37:18
SPEAKER_01: Are doing pot de bureaux.
37:19
SPEAKER_04: Right.
37:20
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
37:20
SPEAKER_04: Well, and I think every jazz company is all how it's done.
37:24
SPEAKER_04: Like everybody, I think there's something to be said too for not like putting tricks in quotes in this one box because there's all kinds of levels of tricks too.
37:35
SPEAKER_04: So yeah, we're we might be teaching a beginner seven to nine-year-old jazz routine, but we can put a tuck jump in there.
37:42
SPEAKER_04: You could put a coffee grinder in there.
37:44
SPEAKER_04: Like there's there's leveled tricks.
37:46
SPEAKER_04: You don't have to do the top-level trick when you're a beginner, but there's still something fun and different.
37:51
SPEAKER_04: And you can be airborne when you're seven.
37:53
SPEAKER_04: Like that's what kids love.
37:54
SPEAKER_04: They want to be up in the air and flying and like, yes, but a calypso can do that, but so can a tuck jump.
38:00
SPEAKER_04: And so I think again, we have to, we talked about this in the Back to Basics episode.
38:04
SPEAKER_04: We as educators have to be excited about the basics and the basic tricks and the stepping stones to get to these big things.
38:11
SPEAKER_04: Because if we poo-poo them, even in passing, nobody's gonna want to do it.
38:15
SPEAKER_04: Why would I care about a jazz square if you're not excited about telling me how to do a jazz square?
38:20
SPEAKER_04: Like I'm obsessed with a jazz square, just like Courtney's obsessed with a Padaboura.
38:23
SPEAKER_04: Like you can make a jazz square, like everything.
38:25
SPEAKER_04: I need to do a jazz square.
38:27
SPEAKER_04: Listen, you gotta just get it in Palier and then like chasse out of it and like amazing.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: Like what Courtney was saying, and I've, you know, seen excerpts of her classes is if you're gonna do those tricks as as you guys were saying, we gotta work backwards though and talk about progressions, you know, basic progressions to build up to those.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: And I can tell in a dance with certain choreography who's doing those progressions in class and who's not.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: Right.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: And that and that's gonna tell me a lot.
38:55
SPEAKER_00: And it and it will affect your score.
38:57
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can do a calypso, but is the foundation there to build up to it and the technique?
39:02
SPEAKER_00: So it's just because you put a trick in doesn't mean it's gonna score well.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: It has to just be executed safely.
39:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:09
SPEAKER_01: And then going back to those progressions that you were talking about, it's also very evident when the progressions have been done on both sides of the body.
39:17
SPEAKER_01: Oh I find that I'm guilty.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: Some people listening to the podcast might recall me as their adjudicator.
39:25
SPEAKER_01: I will say, that right leg is great.
39:27
SPEAKER_01: What's the left leg look like?
39:29
SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
39:30
SPEAKER_01: It's like that was a great turn on your left leg.
39:32
SPEAKER_01: Can you turn on the right leg?
39:34
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
39:34
SPEAKER_02: Especially if the choreography is only showcasing the one side.
39:37
SPEAKER_00: Well, I was just gonna say, with choreography, and that's another part of a winning routine, is interesting and and sometimes comp not complex, but thought out choreography that is not just right side heavy.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: And this goes for solos, especially.
39:51
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
39:52
SPEAKER_00: I love to see a soloist come on stage and turn both ways, different kinds of turn.
39:56
SPEAKER_03: Right.
39:56
SPEAKER_00: But both ways.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so I feel like it's hugely important to train those progressions or the bar work or whatever we're doing both sides.
40:06
SPEAKER_00: And then in choreography, some of the group leap is leaping across stage left, stage right.
40:11
SPEAKER_00: So we're showing that complexity in the routine.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: And so for that, kids really need to be training and teachers need to be teaching both sides.
40:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I'm not poo-pooing like a nice good botma and everything, but too many times I see, like you were saying, is in a solo, they're just bot mying the right leg and they do it like six times.
40:32
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
40:33
SPEAKER_02: Yep, hundred percent.
40:34
SPEAKER_01: Like I know, because I have a more dominant side of my body as well when I do.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: But I'm not trying to just give you that one side over and over and over and over and over again.
40:44
SPEAKER_01: Even on the collegiate level that I'm teaching now, I see the eyes get really big when I have them reverse a whole combination and go from the other side of the room.
40:54
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
40:55
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, this is this is basic to me.
40:58
SPEAKER_02: Right.
40:59
SPEAKER_01: Or rudimentary, I should say, basic, has another connotation these days.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: But I think that you have two sides of the body, you have two arms, you have two legs.
41:07
SPEAKER_01: We should be able to use both.
41:09
unknown: Right.
41:10
SPEAKER_04: And you're not it's not gonna be perfect on both sides.
41:12
SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, when I was still dancing regularly, professionally, like you asked me to do something on the left, it still does not feel great, but I can do it.
41:19
SPEAKER_04: And it's it's yeah, I'm proficient at it.
41:21
SPEAKER_04: So, like, you know, you can't stop doing something just because it doesn't feel perfect.
41:25
SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, you must do it more to make it closer to perfect.
41:28
SPEAKER_04: Like nobody's gonna be perfect, but yeah, close.
41:31
SPEAKER_01: When I was doing Fossey, like the number crunchy granola suite, it's divided the whole number where some people only do things on the right leg, some people only do things on the left leg, and then there's those few tracks that have to split.
41:46
SPEAKER_01: And I was a swing in Fosse, and they would tell me, okay, you're on for so-and-so, and I'm like, Oh, that's the track where I have to double pay both in the same pass.
41:57
SPEAKER_01: But again, because of my foundation, because of the technique, it's like I was like, it's not gonna look as good.
42:02
SPEAKER_01: Like you were saying, Leslie, it just it's what I have to do, and I have to pull from that core to be able to do it.
42:09
SPEAKER_02: You wouldn't have even been hired for that swing position if you couldn't do both.
42:13
SPEAKER_02: And that's the thing that dancers need to realize in the industry is that you're limiting yourself if you're only doing one side 24-7, and even on the choreographer's end, challenging the dancers to sorry, you might not like this left bop mob, but guess what?
42:27
SPEAKER_02: I'm putting it in here because I want you guys to work on this this season.
42:31
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
42:32
SPEAKER_02: And this, and I get it for solos.
42:33
SPEAKER_02: Like, even when I go and set guest solos, I always sit down with the dancers and I say, What are your favorite like tricks, skills, favorite sides?
42:41
SPEAKER_02: Tell me.
42:41
SPEAKER_02: It's always right, right, right, right, right, right, right for everything.
42:44
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, so is there an I literally ask, is there anything on the left that we can showcase?
42:49
SPEAKER_02: Anything.
42:49
SPEAKER_02: Like, I just want to be able to say, as the choreographer, that I've done my part to try to give the judges what they want, which is variety in movement and um showcasing that you are capable of doing more than just the right side.
43:03
SPEAKER_02: But even when I choreograph, and this is a note for all choreographers, and I would love for us to dive into the choreography aspect of this conversation, I am making sure I actually have a checklist of things that I'm trying to achieve with this specific dancer that I'm creating on.
43:17
SPEAKER_02: I do not give them if more than like three legs in the whole dance.
43:22
SPEAKER_02: If I've seen your sidebot ma once, I don't need to see it again.
43:26
SPEAKER_02: If I've seen your tilt at the very start and that's your that's your like feature, that's what you're great at.
43:31
SPEAKER_02: You have a gorgeous leg line, you want to showcase that tilt.
43:33
SPEAKER_02: Guess what?
43:34
SPEAKER_02: I don't need to see it anymore.
43:36
SPEAKER_02: I can maybe see it once more, but if I've I've counted on the teacher mic before, I have counted.
43:41
SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's the seventh leg I saw.
43:43
SPEAKER_02: Oh, hold on, that's the eighth leg I saw.
43:45
SPEAKER_02: Wait, oh wow, we're still going.
43:46
SPEAKER_02: Here's the ninth.
43:47
SPEAKER_02: It's like, are you kidding me?
43:48
SPEAKER_02: You never want a judge to be sitting there in their head counting, like bored of your good thing.
43:54
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
43:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
43:56
SPEAKER_01: It goes to knowing how many dances you.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: have in that particular competition because if that same dancer is doing that same leg in the same way in multiple numbers, then once again I check out as an adjudicator.
44:12
SPEAKER_01: It's like I saw that in their solo.
44:14
SPEAKER_01: I don't need to see it in the group dance.
44:15
SPEAKER_01: I don't need to see it in the trio.
44:17
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
44:18
SPEAKER_01: It's like you have to keep track of that.
44:20
SPEAKER_00: That became very evident to me when we were in COVID times in block schedule.
44:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
44:24
SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay.
44:26
SPEAKER_00: And I I really hope choreographer I think some choreographers also kind of woke up during that time when they sat at competition and saw block schedule and they saw, whoa, I'm doing a lot of the same moves or giving the same phrase to this piece, this piece or whatever.
44:42
SPEAKER_00: And I really hope that we all looked at our choreography and kind of grew from that and tried to spice it up and change it up a little bit.
44:52
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, you're right.
44:53
SPEAKER_00: When you have the same person or a few people coming out doing the same legs, the same Alyssa Contern sequence in every routine, it loses its power.
45:02
SPEAKER_02: It really does.
45:03
SPEAKER_02: In my predictable again, and that's what we don't want.
45:06
SPEAKER_02: We don't want it to be predictable.
45:08
SPEAKER_02: We want to be excited.
45:09
SPEAKER_02: And I've I talk about this all the time.
45:11
SPEAKER_02: And that's a great uh reference of the block scheduling because and again like yes I think it was an like a rude awakening for a lot of people when they got to see their dances across the board but also like what do you think when you're at recital?
45:24
SPEAKER_02: What do you think when you do your like pre-company run through yeah company run through I'm like how do you not realize this then?
45:30
SPEAKER_02: How have you not realized oh this all looks the same?
45:33
SPEAKER_02: If I'm feeling that as a judge, what are you thinking?
45:36
SPEAKER_02: You think everything doesn't look the same?
45:38
SPEAKER_02: I'm confused.
45:38
SPEAKER_02: Did you really think you went out there with this dance?
45:40
SPEAKER_02: Because it wasn't different.
45:41
SPEAKER_02: It was the same thing.
45:42
SPEAKER_02: The same girls doing the the the skater turn quad whatever it is same girls doing the aerial over here it's like how be different like showcase different people try to that's another thing that I try to do even with when I because again I'm speaking a lot from the fact that I'm not in a studio regularly.
46:00
SPEAKER_02: I just do a lot of guest work.
46:02
SPEAKER_02: But even when I go into a guest uh choreography setting with like a soloist I ask them what's your other do you have another solo?
46:09
SPEAKER_02: And they go Yeah you know I have a lyrical and I'm doing their jazz.
46:12
SPEAKER_02: So like okay so what skills are in your lyrical?
46:15
SPEAKER_02: Because I want to make sure that we're not doing all of the same identical skills in your jazz dance.
46:20
SPEAKER_02: So we show variety.
46:21
SPEAKER_02: Like yes there are there can absolutely be crossover and yes there are some dancers who are great at certain things that we want to highlight.
46:27
SPEAKER_02: But if there's other dancers that are also great showcase them too.
46:30
SPEAKER_02: Don't make it predictable don't make it the same thing every single time because it almost becomes like one of those formula dances where we know oh here we go we're going back into that diamond shape formation.
46:41
SPEAKER_02: We're all about to go do you know this like you don't want us to feel that way as a judge.
46:46
SPEAKER_00: It's just thinking outside the box for me.
46:48
SPEAKER_00: You know just as we were going back to it but just how to be different and unpredictable is hugely important to me.
46:57
SPEAKER_00: And I had a thought back when we were talking about tricks and I just wanted to reference uh one time I was judging and a school came in that was had beautiful technique and their main focus was modern dance.
47:08
SPEAKER_00: And they were up they were up against you know a whole bunch of tricks and all this stuff and that's great.
47:14
SPEAKER_00: But I will tell you we were blown away and they they cleaned house they won everything because it was their technique was incredible and it was a breath of fresh air.
47:25
SPEAKER_00: And the choreography and the formations and the movement quality the textures it was incredible.
47:30
SPEAKER_00: And so I want people to understand you don't only need to do this, this, and this to have a winning routine there's so many different ways to have a winning routine.
47:40
SPEAKER_02: And with that being said, I think what's in important about this choreography side of the discussion is like you just said there's so many different factors that could go into it.
47:50
SPEAKER_02: There have been many scenarios where I'll see a beautiful technical studio come out.
47:54
SPEAKER_02: I mean they're I can just tell their foundational training is out of this world.
47:58
SPEAKER_02: Choreography is not that great.
48:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah and then they're not really gonna win just because the choreography it was just sub part it was just mediocre and I'm I I was like wishing for more I was like oh I wish there was like more artistry or like more intention or more storytelling or more transitions, more visuals.
48:18
SPEAKER_02: Like so many aspects to the choreography creation go into it and it's not just how great is your technique.
48:24
SPEAKER_02: But then the the flip side there's the there's the fact that a lot of people think that you have to hire some million dollar guest choreographer to set a piece on your studio and that's going to mean that you're gonna win because you brought in this guest choreographer.
48:39
SPEAKER_02: It's not about the choreography all the time.
48:42
SPEAKER_02: Yes, maybe you're do maybe you're taking the steps to challenge your dancers and expose them to a different style than what you as a choreographer usually offer.
48:50
SPEAKER_02: But if the execution and the technique doesn't complement that guest choreographer's work, it's still not going to win.
48:56
SPEAKER_02: It might win a choreography award but it's not going to win first place because there were other elements of the formula lacking and the ingredients lacking for that dance.
49:05
SPEAKER_04: That's the sad part about the way competitions have have changed in recent years is you will likely not hear that critique unless you're listening to a teacher critique.
49:16
SPEAKER_04: You're not gonna hear your dancer's technique is so amazing, but this choreography is lacking.
49:21
SPEAKER_04: Right.
49:22
SPEAKER_04: And that is why you are not getting a higher score from me.
49:24
SPEAKER_04: You're not gonna hear that because we're not allowed to say that.
49:26
SPEAKER_04: Right.
49:27
SPEAKER_04: You know, half the time you cannot comment on the choreography because it's out of the dancer's hands.
49:31
SPEAKER_04: So you know if if if you as a choreographer are ever in that scenario where like, well why didn't we win?
49:37
SPEAKER_04: I didn't hear it like all I heard was praise, praise, praise for my dancer's technique.
49:41
SPEAKER_04: Read between the lines and think about what else we can't say because if I can't tell you the thing you need to fix, it's now up to you to figure out well what what didn't they talk about?
49:50
SPEAKER_04: Oh, it's the choreography maybe and then watch it again and say oh yeah that could have been a more interesting transition.
49:55
SPEAKER_04: Oh that could have been something different because we're we're we're our hands are tied sometimes and I know that's a delicate subject.
50:02
SPEAKER_00: You're right as an adjudicator that is hard what you can and can't I I try to I try to say it almost kind of in a nice way I'm like you know these kids are so incredible and I honestly think they're capable of more.
50:13
SPEAKER_00: You know I try to hint at it without you know or I really think we could double time this choreography and change our movement.
50:21
SPEAKER_00: You know I try to give suggestions or compliments but also hint at the choreography issue especially if there's nowhere you know some some competitions have it where it's choreography, music, costumes, technique, you know, there's different categories.
50:36
SPEAKER_00: If I can't do a separate score for uh choreography, I really try to kind of hint at it in the critiques without right you know taking it too far.
50:45
SPEAKER_01: And it's not that we're just dissing choreographers because I know my choreographic voice is is very small and I'm very hesitant because I know what has to go into it.
50:55
SPEAKER_01: It's like you have to assess the dancers you have to see what they can do, what they can perfect in the time period and then be able to carry the intention to be unpredictable like we're talking about on stage.
51:08
SPEAKER_01: It is it's very tall order.
51:10
SPEAKER_01: Especially in three minutes or less right with training dancers absolutely yeah so I guess it's like what we're saying is like trying not to be formulaic and really trying to assess the dancers that you have in front of you.
51:24
SPEAKER_01: The dancers that you have in front of you.
51:26
SPEAKER_04: A hundred percent those kids not the kids in your head or the professionals in your head or who you wish you were working with the kids in front of you and that's I love that point Jody.
51:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah because I feel like that's that's what I'm going to be most interested in behind the adjudication table is like did the choreographer or the teacher take these dancers keep them in mind and highlight the best of what they can do.
51:51
SPEAKER_02: Right.
51:51
SPEAKER_01: And give them that intention that unpredictability and just help them create something for that three minutes that they're on stage.
51:58
SPEAKER_01: It's a tall order we know but still it's like this you have to have that mindfulness.
52:03
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52:56
SPEAKER_02: Learn more and view all of their sock variations now at ApalaPerformance.com that's apo l'a performance dot com and now let's get back to the episode and like with that that's partially why I feel that guest choreography isn't always the way to go because studios know their dancers best the teachers who work with their the dancers week after week know their best.
53:35
SPEAKER_02: They should be able to if you're a smart choreographer you should be able to choreograph this dance for your dancers to highlight and showcase them in the best of your ability when a guest choreographer comes in and you think you're we're gonna have a winning routine the guest choreographer is I've honestly just trying to like figure out your dancers.
53:56
SPEAKER_02: And then the dance might end up being too easy because they've assessed the way that they assessed them might have felt like, oh well they're not really where I you know the technical level where I think so I'm gonna just play it safe and give them a clean dance or they're gonna go above and beyond and over their head and it's not gonna work for them.
54:14
SPEAKER_02: And then you're gonna have to end up readjusting it or maybe you can't based on the choreographer's requests.
54:19
SPEAKER_02: Like it's just not always going to work.
54:21
SPEAKER_02: The only way for me that and I'm speaking as a guest choreographer, you know, some people might be like well oh my God I've brought you in as a choreographer.
54:29
SPEAKER_02: Well guess what I kind of am getting to a point where I only will work with studios that I've worked with before because and unless you're at like to be honest I'm not trying to sound like elitist when I say this but like you have to kind of be at a very high level for me to walk in as an outsider I need it to be a blank canvas.
54:46
SPEAKER_02: I need to be able to pick you to do whatever I want you to do to be able to make my vision come up.
54:51
SPEAKER_02: If I have to cater around all these requests like I can't do the left I can't reverse it.
54:55
SPEAKER_02: I can't do this side of this it makes my job 10 times harder and then the final product's not going to work out because I don't know your dancers.
55:02
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter how great my choreography is, your dancers aren't going to be shown off to the best of their ability because I was limited with what I was able to work with.
55:10
SPEAKER_02: And that's what's hard for guesting.
55:12
SPEAKER_02: So I think like in-house choreographers is honestly the way to go for competition personally, I think unless you're like extremely beyond advanced and you can handle it.
55:21
SPEAKER_00: I mean I'll agree with you 100% there's certain schools that I really have gotten to learn their kids over the years when they have me in as a guest choreographer and now it's becoming a little bit easier for me to set work on them because I know kind of what their focus is and their training and and what kids and everything but I always suggest and when people ask me to set work on them, I like to do a class before 100%.
55:46
SPEAKER_00: Or and I like to be there at least a day or two so that I can really observe and think of a go home that night and think about okay what are we doing tomorrow for choreography based on what I saw today.
55:55
SPEAKER_00: But a class before is really important for me so I can really look at the dancers kind of look at the collective level all of that and then have a little bit of time for me to think and I I tend to choreograph right on the spot but in order for me to do that successfully I need to kind of know what I'm working with.
56:16
SPEAKER_00: So for people that have guest choreographers and that's my recommendation is have them teach a guest class the day before or the morning before or whatever so that you can get the best result out of your choreographer.
56:27
SPEAKER_02: Let's dive into the genre chat of winning dances because I feel like that a lot of people think that contemporary is the only way to win a competition these days.
56:39
SPEAKER_02: Every every first place dance is a contemporary dance that had beautiful visuals and partnering and movement quality and technique and story and theme and all these things is that necessarily true?
56:52
SPEAKER_01: I don't believe so because I think like all the little tenets all the little bullet points that we've been hitting I think if that's in your dance, the genre's not gonna matter if there's that intention if there's that sense of non-predictability if it's been choreographed to the dancers that are actually there's enough like I like to say the choreographic connective tissue then that's gonna be the winning routine I mean it could be anything.
57:22
SPEAKER_01: I mean even if there's an acro piece choreographed that way.
57:27
SPEAKER_03: Right.
57:27
SPEAKER_01: If it's I mean I'm gonna be like look that took me on that journey I saw everything I needed to see to make that the winning routine.
57:35
SPEAKER_04: I think what happens is that if you just look at the program everywhere, there's just more contemporary dances.
57:41
SPEAKER_04: So ratios and math just tell you you know that like it's probably going to be a contemporary routine because there's so many more of them.
57:49
SPEAKER_04: Like that's that's what you're seeing.
57:51
SPEAKER_04: It's not that contemporary is better or contemporary wins all the time.
57:54
SPEAKER_04: It's just that there's more of them to choose from you know and again you have to really stand out in another genre because there's fewer of them.
58:02
SPEAKER_04: So you do like Jody said have to have all those bullet points plus be oh my God that jazz routine just like blew me out of the wild might be more memorable because it is in a contemporary dance dance.
58:13
SPEAKER_04: Right.
58:13
SPEAKER_02: Right.
58:14
SPEAKER_00: Well that's I guess like you know us including all we've been talking about, you gotta know your strengths.
58:20
SPEAKER_00: Like I one of the schools I teach at they are hugely strong in tap and they know that's their strength and they're not afraid to compete with it.
58:29
SPEAKER_00: You know if if you know ballet is your strength, then go for it.
58:33
SPEAKER_00: And that's you know we don't see a lot of ballet win.
58:35
SPEAKER_00: But if a if a ballet comes out and they've got all the ingredients we've talked about and technique, they're gonna do well.
58:42
SPEAKER_02: Right.
58:42
SPEAKER_00: You know, so you've got to know your strength.
58:44
SPEAKER_00: Don't just think oh contemporary you know has a better chance of winning which is not true.
58:49
SPEAKER_00: But you know a lot of people think that and then they'll just stick with it because they feel it's safe.
58:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh go for it and surprise us with what you truly feel like your strength is.
59:00
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
59:00
SPEAKER_02: I think that people especially like before the kids even get involved the kids might like doing contemporary more for whatever reason.
59:07
SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's easier to get away with things in contemporary you know the technique isn't can we kind of do that.
59:14
SPEAKER_02: Or yeah exactly like I meant to have that bent length.
59:17
SPEAKER_02: There's always an excuse in contemporary and it's more easier for the kids.
59:22
SPEAKER_02: And then on the choreographer's end it's easier for the choreographer because then they can disguise all those technical habits and disguise those flaws and just make like a visually beautiful dance.
59:32
SPEAKER_02: But I and I think like you said this the word safe, playing it safe.
59:36
SPEAKER_02: I think that a lot of people want to take the safe route and sure contempor there are contemporary dances that absolutely blow my mind in artistry and create choreography and execution.
59:48
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes yes but so can a jazz so can a tap so can a hip hop so can an acro so can any genre of dance like we've said so I do think it's important to and and like I mentioned it it gets predictable.
1:00:02
SPEAKER_02: Again like if I'm 20 contemporary dances in in a row how are you doing something different in that 20 that's gonna make it stand out and be the winning routine.
1:00:13
SPEAKER_02: And it's the third jar of hearts.
1:00:15
SPEAKER_02: Right yeah in that 20.
1:00:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah like it it needs to it really needs to be completely different in in maybe you have a really unique choreographic style and that's what was memorable about it.
1:00:28
SPEAKER_02: Or maybe their technique was amazing but the choreography was generic or maybe it was a song that I've never heard in my life and all I can think about is the fact that this was just a cool song and I remember it because of that.
1:00:39
SPEAKER_02: Like you truly don't know what will will be that thing that sticks with an audience member or a judge that could make it the winning routine.
1:00:48
SPEAKER_02: But I think another important part to think about is again subjective again depends on who's on your panel, but also again depends on who shows up that day at that event.
1:00:58
SPEAKER_02: Because like you mentioned Jody, it's like if you have all the ingredients, any genre could win.
1:01:03
SPEAKER_02: But just because you had those ingredients and you might have been the first place over competition down the street last week, a different studio showed up this week different set of judges and now the judges like this tap dance more than your contemporary dance that just went premium ingredients circumstantial from the gourmet store.
1:01:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:01:19
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:01:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:01:21
SPEAKER_02: So like yes they still have the ingredients like we've talked about you've done all the work you've done everything right but maybe there was something better maybe the execution was better.
1:01:29
SPEAKER_02: There have been times where I'm like I'm so excited to find out who's gonna win because it was such a close call that I'm like I have no idea how this is going to go.
1:01:37
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
1:01:38
SPEAKER_00: Uh something else going back that you know we talked about we talked about that collective understanding from the dancers but also choreographers I see a lot of disconnect sometimes with the costume choices based on you know it doesn't does that costume fit and work with that choreography and that music to me the whole picture has to make sense and has to complement your dancers has to complement your choreography, the music, the choreography, the costumes all of it I you know I've seen very pedestrian like dancing in certain pieces, but then the costume I don't know has ruffles and rhinestones or whatever and it doesn't make sense.
1:02:19
SPEAKER_00: So it all has to really make sense and for that you know for it to win for me.
1:02:24
SPEAKER_00: That can be a total package.
1:02:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah total total package it's I'm so glad that you brought that up because there have been times where I've been so distracted by a costume that I can't even concentrate on the choreography.
1:02:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah I'm still trying to figure out why are these dancers wearing the you don't want the judges to ever feel that way.
1:02:44
SPEAKER_02: Like that's I think like like one of the main points to get across in this discussion is that like you want to eliminate all of the questions.
1:02:51
SPEAKER_02: I shouldn't be questioning what what what skill that was I shouldn't be questioning why you're wearing that costume.
1:02:57
SPEAKER_02: I shouldn't be questioning what is the story.
1:02:59
SPEAKER_02: I mean I guess like sometimes can because if as long as you know what the story is like we've talked about sure but like I don't want that to be the only thing I think about it is so hard as a viewer and as a judge everyone's like well why are you paying so much attention to that?
1:03:12
SPEAKER_02: You shouldn't be paying attention to that you should be critiquing my dances right you you put it there.
1:03:17
SPEAKER_00: Everything I see on the stage I am judges.
1:03:19
SPEAKER_02: Everything I see everything.
1:03:21
SPEAKER_02: Like I'm sorry whoever says that have you ever tried to turn your brain off of just that one thing that you can't stop thinking about to just plow through and talk about everything else when you have to pee and you're hungry and like you're waiting on a dub interview to like come through on your phone.
1:03:35
SPEAKER_04: Like no there's too many things.
1:03:36
SPEAKER_01: Hour 15 and the rest of the studio is screaming right behind you.
1:03:40
SPEAKER_04: With the air horn and the cowbell.
1:03:42
SPEAKER_04: I mean and I think it's also important to remind everybody because I know people get up in arms about things we are talking about a what makes a winning routine at a dance competition where you have paid money to be judged.
1:03:55
SPEAKER_04: We're not talking about a nice dance routine that you put together to do at your show, your concert, your performance, your recital, your talent show there's plenty of good routines out there that don't need to be judged, that didn't be get created to be judged.
1:04:08
SPEAKER_04: So like do those.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_04: Those are great please 100% do those.
1:04:13
SPEAKER_04: But if you are coming to a dance competition these are the things we're looking for that that are not going to guarantee you to win but give you a better shot at getting a higher score from the people you have paid money to hear from yes yeah Mike Drop Leslie Yes Oh my gosh.
1:04:31
SPEAKER_00: And and for me too like at the end of the day and I know you've had a whole podcast about this but I also am looking at appropriateness age appropriateness.
1:04:40
SPEAKER_00: You know I mean you can come out with the legs high and the straight legs and pointed feet and everything's great but if the song the lyrics or some kind of moves in the routine I that's a full stop for me you know especially as a dance teacher of children I have children of my own that sometimes will be what stops me from and I've heard you andrew I've heard some of your critiques where you where you say it you say this is not an appropriate song.
1:05:07
SPEAKER_04: This is not an appropriate movement.
1:05:10
SPEAKER_04: She's for real about it.
1:05:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah I I mean I'll talk to I will in my critique say ooh I feel like we could have edited that part out or a great question I'll ask is what is that what are you saying with that movement?
1:05:22
SPEAKER_00: What are we trying to say with that?
1:05:24
SPEAKER_00: And it's important and the older I've gotten the more advocate I've you know become for this so if people are asking why why didn't this win when you think you have all the other things we've talked about maybe also look at that and see you know if the subject matter is appropriate or whatever.
1:05:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah it gets really tricky for me because we know the general setup of a dance competition.
1:05:45
SPEAKER_01: The adjudication table is very near the stage.
1:05:48
SPEAKER_01: For me as a male identifying judge if the costume becomes inappropriate then it really is difficult to do my job because if I'm dealing with a possible like Janet Jackson's wardrobe malfunction, like dealing whatever the age group of the dancers, it's like it becomes very uncomfortable, and I can't really pay attention.
1:06:10
SPEAKER_01: Nope.
1:06:10
SPEAKER_01: Goes back to what I'm saying.
1:06:11
SPEAKER_01: It's like I'm stuck on the costume.
1:06:13
SPEAKER_01: I can't really talk about this when I'm afraid something's going to happen and I don't want to be held accountable for this happening or to be mentioning it, but it's literally right there in front of my face.
1:06:25
SPEAKER_00: Be away.
1:06:26
SPEAKER_00: Like every male judge I've yeah, every male identifying judge I've worked with, they've all said the same thing.
1:06:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Jody, as you.
1:06:33
SPEAKER_00: And and they when there is a malfunction, they don't, they're like, should I talk about it?
1:06:37
SPEAKER_00: Do I look away?
1:06:38
SPEAKER_00: It becomes a very, you know, uncomfortable situation, but you want to help the people too and say, Yeah, how could have we avoided this or how can we make it better and safer the next time?
1:06:49
SPEAKER_00: So those are all things that choreographers and teachers really need to consider.
1:06:54
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
1:06:54
SPEAKER_01: But it goes back to what you said.
1:06:55
SPEAKER_01: Make sure it's appropriate.
1:06:57
SPEAKER_02: It we shouldn't, it should there shouldn't even be any potential for that.
1:07:02
SPEAKER_02: There should be absolutely we should have done all of our homework, we should have done all of the the butt glue, the sewing, the the double-sided tape, the anything possible that you think could prevent this needs to be happening.
1:07:15
SPEAKER_02: There are so and I don't I don't care if you had three dance three dances to change, that's not my problem.
1:07:21
SPEAKER_02: I don't want you going out on stage exposing yourself to the world.
1:07:24
SPEAKER_02: You don't want to, the judges don't want to, the audience don't want to, the live stream doesn't want you to.
1:07:29
SPEAKER_02: You have to do everything in your power to prevent that.
1:07:32
SPEAKER_02: And if that means the costume maybe doesn't fit this dancer, maybe we gotta go with another costume, we gotta go with another costume, y'all.
1:07:39
SPEAKER_02: You're under stage lights.
1:07:41
SPEAKER_02: Make sure you're wearing undergarments.
1:07:42
SPEAKER_02: Anything can happen.
1:07:44
SPEAKER_02: Like this And it's a family setting.
1:07:45
SPEAKER_02: Yes, a family competition.
1:07:47
SPEAKER_02: It should not be provocative, it should not be risque, we should not be wearing like garters, we should not like there's so many things that just go over people's heads because they've seen it on YouTube and it won.
1:07:59
SPEAKER_02: I truly believe that's why.
1:08:00
SPEAKER_02: And in instead of thinking, wow, these are 12-year-olds, like wow, these dancers probably they look confident, they're performing confident.
1:08:09
SPEAKER_02: Are they though?
1:08:10
SPEAKER_02: Are they actually confident what they're wearing?
1:08:13
SPEAKER_02: And are you okay teaching them?
1:08:15
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
1:08:16
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
1:08:17
SPEAKER_02: There's such a big discussion, and I think that appropriateness is huge.
1:08:21
SPEAKER_02: But then there will always be someone that says, Well, X, Y, and Z1.
1:08:25
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
1:08:26
SPEAKER_02: Well, that dance who did that that inappropriate song and had barely anything on won first overall.
1:08:31
SPEAKER_02: So obviously the judges don't feel that way.
1:08:33
SPEAKER_02: And people will always come back.
1:08:35
SPEAKER_02: And again, we will go back and say, like we say a million times, is that we truly, there's not a lot that we as judges can do in those moments because we have to judge what is presented in front of us.
1:08:46
SPEAKER_02: And yes, we can maybe do what Andrea said and say it on the mic and say this song is not appropriate, this costume is a little too revealing, but usually there's not a score for costume anymore.
1:08:57
SPEAKER_02: They've eliminated that.
1:08:58
SPEAKER_02: There's not a score for choreography anymore, they've eliminated that.
1:09:01
SPEAKER_02: There's certainly not an appropriateness score in most places.
1:09:03
SPEAKER_02: So and if there is, like I've heard of scenarios where judges have specifically deducted for appropriateness and have spoke about it on the critique and then got complaints about it.
1:09:13
SPEAKER_02: So it's so like we can't we can't win.
1:09:16
SPEAKER_00: There will there is places that said don't, you know, there are some competitions that say don't mark down for music.
1:09:23
SPEAKER_00: Don't those are, you know, considered the perfect part of the score.
1:09:26
SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I'm sorry, but I I'm at the place in my career where I am gonna stand up for that stuff and I will take a little bit off.
1:09:34
SPEAKER_00: If it's super inappropriate lyrics, I'm gonna, I'm gonna deduct a little bit.
1:09:39
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:09:40
SPEAKER_04: And luckily, you know, for for us in this part of our all of our careers, like I I'm not gonna work for somebody who doesn't have my values.
1:09:48
SPEAKER_04: And if I find that I'm working for somebody that doesn't have my values, I'm not working for them anymore because I have other things that I can do.
1:09:54
SPEAKER_04: We are all in demand.
1:09:55
SPEAKER_04: We are all, you know, at the point in our careers where we can choose.
1:09:59
SPEAKER_04: And so, you know, this isn't just a plug for doing your research as studio owners, as teachers, when you're going to a competition, well, do they advertise who their judges are or are they pulling somebody from the side of the road?
1:10:10
SPEAKER_04: Do you are they putting the bios somewhere?
1:10:12
SPEAKER_04: Read the bios because if you're getting a judge that's 21, 22, yeah, you might end up with a Courtney Ortiz who started at 21, 22 and actually was an amazing judge who had the same values that she has today.
1:10:23
SPEAKER_04: But somebody that young may not, may not have developed the values, may not have come from a place with those values.
1:10:28
SPEAKER_04: You just don't know.
1:10:29
SPEAKER_04: So, you know, you got to seek out the places that are gonna, again, have your values.
1:10:33
SPEAKER_04: And if you don't share them, if you're going to a competition and risk a dance number 52 is winning, talk to the competition.
1:10:40
SPEAKER_04: They have control of that.
1:10:41
SPEAKER_04: We don't have control of that.
1:10:42
SPEAKER_04: It is the owner of the competition who's making the rules.
1:10:45
SPEAKER_04: So, and it's up to the customer to say, we're not standing for this, we're not giving you our business anymore.
1:10:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:10:50
SPEAKER_00: So, and that's the other thing.
1:10:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, find a competition that seems to suit you and your values, not necessarily winning always, like where are we going to win the most, but what really matches with our vision?
1:11:02
SPEAKER_00: What matches like our school's kind of vision?
1:11:04
SPEAKER_02: The hard part is that you don't know until you get there.
1:11:06
SPEAKER_02: And I feel like a lot of competitions are like, oh, we absolutely care about appropriateness and we absolutely won't allow inappropriate music.
1:11:14
SPEAKER_02: And then you get there and it's exactly the opposite.
1:11:16
SPEAKER_02: And you're like, uh, you you sold me on the whole appropriate thing.
1:11:20
SPEAKER_02: And where is that being implemented?
1:11:22
SPEAKER_02: It's not.
1:11:23
SPEAKER_02: So I I really encourage competitions.
1:11:25
SPEAKER_02: I hope they're listening to us.
1:11:26
SPEAKER_02: Like, I hope that they're listening to our podcast because we speak about this all the time.
1:11:31
SPEAKER_02: And I don't feel like that there's any change that could be happening in the industry until they start it.
1:11:35
SPEAKER_02: The studios from the top, the top of the studio, the studio owners need to make sure that they are monitoring what is getting presented under their studio's name at competitions and making sure it's appropriate on all levels, costume, song, theme, all of it.
1:11:48
SPEAKER_02: We've talked about it on many other episodes.
1:11:50
SPEAKER_02: The competitions need to implement, start enforcing rules, uh, deduct points, penalize dancers, eliminate, like disqualify dancers.
1:11:59
SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm sorry, and I know that's bad for your business, but that's the only way things will change.
1:12:04
SPEAKER_02: And there's another studio that will come, don't worry.
1:12:07
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:12:08
SPEAKER_00: And I know everyone's like, well, that's not the dancer's fault.
1:12:10
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:12:11
SPEAKER_00: But as we said, when I when I'm judging a routine, I'm not judging just a dancer, I'm judging everything involved in it.
1:12:18
SPEAKER_00: So I'm not trying to punish the dancer.
1:12:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm not, we're not trying to punish any.
1:12:22
SPEAKER_00: We're trying to use this as a learning experience to improve and to grow and all that.
1:12:26
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, yeah, I'm I feel bad that the dancer may not win or score as best as they want, but this needs to be a learning experience.
1:12:34
SPEAKER_00: And I'll tell you why in my critiques that you can hopefully change it and fix it for the next time.
1:12:39
SPEAKER_00: Yep, you know.
1:12:40
SPEAKER_02: Not everyone's a winner, and we've learned that today on this episode because there's only a handful of winning.
1:12:50
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
1:12:50
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of ingredients to what makes a winning dance, and we've talked all about that today on this week's episode.
1:12:57
SPEAKER_02: So thank you to our guests, Andrea and Jodi, for joining us on this fabulous chat.
1:13:03
SPEAKER_02: It was so lovely uh talking with y'all, having you on the podcast for the very first time.
1:13:07
SPEAKER_02: Can't wait to have you both back sooner than later.
1:13:10
SPEAKER_02: And for all of our listeners out there, I hope that this will help you prepare for the upcoming 2024 competition season.
1:13:18
SPEAKER_02: Maybe, you know, approach rehearsal different next time.
1:13:21
SPEAKER_02: Maybe tweak some of the aura that you've been drilling like crazy.
1:13:24
SPEAKER_02: Really uh give a listen, and we can't wait to see your dances this season uh at all of the different competitions around the country.
1:13:31
SPEAKER_02: To our guests, we always have y'all lead us out with one final thought on the topic.
1:13:36
SPEAKER_02: So anything that you'd like to share, you can speak to whoever you'd like, parents, studio owners, the competitions, ooh, other judges out there, choreographers, dancers, whoever you'd like to speak to with one final thought on what makes a winning routine.
1:13:52
SPEAKER_01: I think in general, approach it as just putting your best foot forward, literal and figuratively.
1:13:58
SPEAKER_01: Just think about doing your best in that day, in that time.
1:14:03
SPEAKER_01: You can't think about the winning.
1:14:05
SPEAKER_01: The more you think about the winning, the less likely it probably will happen.
1:14:09
SPEAKER_01: Just really enjoy it.
1:14:11
SPEAKER_01: And that's advice for myself, too.
1:14:13
SPEAKER_01: I am so not the person that enjoys the journey.
1:14:15
SPEAKER_01: I'm looking for the results, but I find the results are better if I just enjoy the whole process, enjoying the journey of putting my best foot forward.
1:14:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would say in jo kind of going off from that, enjoying the chance to perform, right?
1:14:30
SPEAKER_00: And keeping your expectations real and just trying to self-improve from the last time you competed, always trying to better yourself for just the sake of improving and growing as a dancer, as an artist, as a human, and not just make winning the only focus.
1:14:50
SPEAKER_00: That will come if all the other things start to come into place and you change your focus.
1:14:57
SPEAKER_02: We hope you enjoyed our episode this week, all about what makes a winning routine.
1:15:01
SPEAKER_02: Special shout out to our IDA judges who joined us on this episode.
1:15:05
SPEAKER_02: Don't forget to follow them on social media.
1:15:07
SPEAKER_02: You can find Jody on Instagram at other black guy and Andrea at Andrea M Tracy1.
1:15:15
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1:15:22
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1:15:28
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1:15:37
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1:15:43
SPEAKER_02: Be sure to check out IDA affiliated competition, Decca Dance Competition.
1:15:48
SPEAKER_02: Decca Dance Competition is a celebration of artists and the families who love them.
1:15:53
SPEAKER_02: This experience was created not just for competitors, but to honor the educators, choreographers, studio owners, and parents who make the dance community what it is.
1:16:03
SPEAKER_02: Come experience the Decca difference.
1:16:05
SPEAKER_02: With a specialized four-judge panel, an exclusive distinctive scoring system with weighted technique scores, live judges' critiques, and the first fully sprung Omara dance floor in competition history.
1:16:17
SPEAKER_02: We invite you to join them at an event this season as they celebrate five years of Decca Dance Competition.
1:16:23
SPEAKER_02: Visit their website for a full list of upcoming convention and competition events in their 2024 season at Decadance Competition.com.
1:16:32
SPEAKER_04: Stay tuned for our upcoming episodes, including how to teach movement quality, across the floor, and the ins and outs of being a swing.