Latest / Cyrus Webb's tracks / Author Sara Z. Carson discusses DARK MESSIAH on Conversations LIVE

Transcript

Author Sara Z. Carson discusses DARK MESSIAH on Conversations LIVE · Cyrus Webb's tracks

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Conversations Live. I'm your host,
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Cyrus Webb. Glad you all could join us once again.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: For our radio audience tuning in at WYAD 94.1 FM
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: and WYADonline.com, we're glad that you all can be with us. Also,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: join us online worldwide via our podcast at Our Heart
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Radio and Amazon Music, as well as our Conversations Radio Network.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: We're glad you all could be with us as well.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: I'm excited to welcome author Sarah Z. Carson to our
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: broadcast today. She's celebrating a brand-new book that I had
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: a chance to read called Dark Messiah. We're going to
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: talk to Sarah. Not only about the writing journey for her,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: but what it's like for her to talk about topics,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: I think, that are really, unfortunately, something all of us
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: can relate to in some form. But to be able
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: to do it in the way we're able to take
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: a journey with characters that only know what it's like
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: to be able to be bound, but also freed in
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: their own role in that as well. If you guys
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: are not staying connected with Sarah, we'll let you guys
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: know how to do that as well. But Sarah, thank
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: you again for stopping by. I really appreciate it.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: to chat with you, and thank you for all the
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: kind words.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Well, look, the pleasure's definitely all mine. As I mentioned,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: I got a chance to get an early copy of
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: the book, so you've been able to kind of sit
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: with this for a while, Sarah. These characters you've been
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: able to live with, you know, the reviews have already
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: been coming in. What has it been like for you
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: to see the way that people are responding to Dark Messiah?
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's relieving, of course, because when you write,
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: you're sitting with something alone for so long, and... I
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: worry about, is it going to connect with people? Are
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: they going to respond well to it? All of that.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: And so it's been relieving, but it's also been really
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: wonderful to hear from people that they find the subject
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: matter interesting and that they're enjoying reading it. So I
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: have just been sort of humbled by the response to it.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: For myself, Sarah, in reading the book, going into it,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: I love the fact that you make these characters relatable,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: but also even if it's a time period that we
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: may not be familiar with in particular, it still feels
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: so relevant and timely when we kind of look at
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: the world. Did you realize that when you were writing
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: the story, or is it something that just connected as
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: the story was being developed?
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: A little bit of both. I did... I started... getting
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: really interested in the topic of, you know, cult and
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: coercive control. Again, I, I was a true crime kid. Um, when, um,
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: in about 2015, um, during the presidential election, um, just
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: because the messaging that was coming out from one side
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: of the political spectrum was really intensely cult like, and
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: I kept commenting on that to people. Um, and talking
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: about how much it did remind me of People's Temple
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: and Jim Jones in particular. But also, you know, I
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: don't think that I necessarily realized how deep it would
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: go as I worked on the story in terms of,
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: you know, talking about sort of the complicated role of
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: being a victim and a perpetrator in terms of like
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: being a cult member. You know, you are you're carrying
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: out bad acts, but you are also having bad acts
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: done upon you. And then also just the way that
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: we look at women victims in particular in our society
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: and sort of the complicated requests that we make of
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: them to be really perfect if they want our sympathy.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: So I didn't expect that to become so much of
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: my storytelling and Unfortunately, it remains relevant to this very
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: moment and the way that we talk about women who
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: have been, you know, have been taken on by a
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: cause or by an individual or, you know, fallen in
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: love with the wrong guy or taken the wrong actions.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: So I think that there were certain themes that I
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: didn't anticipate would become really sort of poignant as I
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: worked on it or that I would be able to
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: pull out of everyday life at this point in, you know,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: in the 2020s. But, but yeah, it was definitely a
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: mix of those.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And it is so, I mean, again, for myself
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: going into the book, Sarah, when I was reading it,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: I thought to myself how easily today in particular, and
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: even ironically, more so I think today because of social
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: media and, and the way that people connect, that what
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: we see in Dark Messiah, we can see why it
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: is something that is happening today, could happen today, and
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: could even be worsened today. What has that conversation been
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: like for you, either with readers or even with yourself,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: to think about how at a time where things like
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: in the 1970s, things may have seemed so siloed, that
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: even today that same thing can happen and is happening?
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I, I think that, you know, I, I, a
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: lot of the conversations I've had about this, I feel,
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: I feel a sort of a sympathy and compassion is
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: frustrating as it is to, you know, to deal with
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: anyone who is sort of caught up in, in a,
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: a movement of any kind, um, and isn't really listening to,
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: you know, critical thinking around it. Um, I think we're
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: in a very complicated world right now. And social media
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: makes it possible for us to select our own reality
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: in a lot of cases. And also, I think even
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: if you just look back a few years ago to
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: when we were all under lockdown during the pandemic, complicated
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: worlds are tough. And if someone can give us easy answers,
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: it feels really good. And I think that, you know,
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: that is definitely a seductive thing in this day and
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: age because, you know, it seems like we're just constantly
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: dealing with, you know, with just so much information and
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: so many things. And it's really nice when we can
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: get something really simple back to us, you know? And I, yeah,
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: I think like it is, to your point though, way more,
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: way more dangerous now than it was in that time period. Um,
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: just because there are so many, there's so many people who,
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: who say that they have easy answers also. Um, you know, and,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: and also like, I think that, you know, we're all
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: looking for reassurances that we're okay. Yeah.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: And that is what makes dark Messiah so fascinating. Um,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: and I think people will have a, have, a hard
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: time believing, Sarah, this is your debut novel. Because it
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: is something I think that it really does draw you in.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: With the character Nell, I feel like what I love
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: about Nell is Nell does not try to portray herself
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: as a victim. She does not try to portray herself
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: as perfect and innocent. And there's that one scene that
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: you wrote in the book to me that really resonated
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: with that point. and I won't give any context, but
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: you'll know what I'm talking about, where something pretty brutal
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: was happening in front of her, and she basically says
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: to us, people will wonder how these things happen, and
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: yet we stand by and let it happen. What was
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: it like for you to kind of create this character
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: like Nell, who is kind of thrust in this situation,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: but also finds herself almost enveloped in it to a
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: point that at times she doesn't see how she could be.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Out of it. First of all, thank you for saying
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: that about the book. That's really kind. And I think
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: that I really tried to, you know, I really tried
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: to put myself in the shoes of, as I was writing, just,
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: you know, the people... the people who stand and watch
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: these things and don't really know what to do. Because
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: I think that we all want to believe that we
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: would stand up and do the right thing when we
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: see something bad happening. But in the context of her situation,
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: and in a lot of these situations, like you're in
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: a space where standing up would feel really, really, really
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: scary and scary. so much so that I don't think
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: that anyone would want to do it. And I tried
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: to kind of think about the idea of like, you know,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: we see this, this bystander effect in so many times
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: in history where, you know, it's easier to, to try
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: and just like go along and get along in order
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: to survive another day rather than, you know, stand up
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: and say like something is wrong. Like she recognizes that,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: as I think a lot of people would in that
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: situation that the, the value proposition of saying that, that
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: someone is doing the wrong thing is not going to
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: pay off for her. And she's, you know, almost like
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: making a practical decision, but, but also, you know, just
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: unconsciously doing that too, because that's how we protect ourselves. Um,
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: I thought a lot about, you know, the way animals behave, um,
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: in terms of wanting to make sure that they stay
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: at the center of the pack. and not put themselves
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: out in a way that makes them fodder for predators.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: So I think it almost became about really trying to
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: understand those people who maybe aren't you know, standing up
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: and being heroic, but the people who stand by and
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: don't take action because they're thinking about their own survival. Yeah.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: When you just made that animal reference, I thought about
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: another passage in the book, Sarah, where, where dad was
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: saying to them, basically that, you know, I know what's best,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: you know, basically you don't know anything. I know everything.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: And in this particular reference, I remember, as you mentioned, Emma,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: the reason why I thought about it was when he
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: was talking about castrating animals. And, you know, we don't
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: think we won't do it to you, too. I mean,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: I think it's such a fascinating thing to think about, especially, again,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: making it very present to today where people feel like
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: they know better for you how you should live and what.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: You should do.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: What was that like for you in even crafting this
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: story initially, Sarah, to think about the layers that you
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: were willing to go to in telling the story as
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: the author, and then, of course, the characters you were
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: bringing to life in doing so?
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: You know, I think that it was, you know, it's
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: a scary place to visit. It's a scary place to visit.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: I found it, you know, I would, there were things
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: that when I was researching and, you that I was,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: you know, when I was writing that would kind of
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: keep me up at night that I would just, you know,
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: really think a lot about and, and worry a lot
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: about in terms of, you know, first, like, yeah, like
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: going back to like looking at someone and saying, okay,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: they have the answers for me so I can live
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: within these terms. But then sort of the challenges associated
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: with like when those terms are constantly shifting and you
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: have to shift with them. Um, and certainly once, once
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: I bring everyone to the isolated compound for the last
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: part of the book, the idea of being in a
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: place like that and looking around and trying every single
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: day to find the thing that is going to give
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: you a sense of normalcy, um, and a sense of,
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: of sort of like, but I'm safe here and never
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: being able to find it. Um, So I just I
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: thought a lot about that, like almost like the idea
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: of like you're drowning and you're looking for any sort
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: of thing to grab on to, which is kind of ironic,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: I guess, because I think that at the beginning of
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: the book, that's exactly why they join the organization, because
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: Nell and her mother are both drowning and don't have
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: anything to hang on to. And they see this as
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: a life raft of sorts for them and an emotional,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: like a place where they can go and get explanations
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: for the bad things that have happened to them. And,
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: you know, as that erodes, they're once again sort of
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: left to their own devices looking around and saying, okay,
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: what can we grab onto here that's going to make
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: us feel safe again and just not finding it. And
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, there's just, there's so many things
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: that are happening in the world that I looked at too, where,
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: you know, it's a war, it's an attack that's being
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: made where you're looking at that and you're seeing, you're
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: feeling that destabilization that, you know, bad news brings and
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: you start looking around to be like, okay, what is that?
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: Where am I and am I safe? And, you know,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: just trying to find it and the idea of being
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: in a place where you can't is really frightening.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Right. And I think, again, that's why the story, I think,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: will not only draw the reader in, Sarah, but also
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: make them think. There's another great thing that Nell says,
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: you know, that she was told by others. I think
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: one of the characters named Colleen and maybe others, too,
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: about not taking things literally. And I think, again, very
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: timely for today, right, how, you know, You know, things
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: are said and we're told, you know, they don't really
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: mean that. That's not really. And yet, you know, Nell
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: being able to realize, okay, actually I should be thinking
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: about this. You know, and that leads me to the
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: last thing I want to talk to you about, and
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: that is the evolution of Nell. And again, I'll talk
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: about this broadly so we don't spoil it for people.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: If people have not gotten their copy of Dark Messiah,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: definitely I want to invite you guys to get it.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: But I do love the fact that we do see
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: an evolution of Nell in this book from– how she
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: first appears to us looking at the world and what experiences.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: And I think her own determination kind of is able
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: to create in her by the time that we end.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Was that part of the fun thing for you, Sarah,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: to see her own journey in this book?
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. And it was really challenging, too, because I
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: started with her voice. when I started writing and I,
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: I wanted to, you know, I wanted to really carefully
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: thread the needle of her remembering and then also of
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: her kind of developing like herself, self, uh, you know, her,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: her sense of self developing and, and sort of coming
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: to figure herself out, um, throughout the story without, losing that,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: you know, just balancing the, the memory piece of it
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: along with making sure that she was, she was going
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: on a journey that could be, you know, seen and
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: experienced and coming into her own more. Um, but also
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: in a really, you know, in a really flawed way. Um,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: because I think that, you know, where, where she, where
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: she ultimately ends up is, is not a perfect place either. Um,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: but yeah, showing her tenacity and her fight to survive
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: and her willingness to do that. And also, any sort
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: of luck that she has along that way, it sort
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: of bears out the idea that even with all the
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: character in the world, sometimes we don't succeed, was really...
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: It was challenging, but it was also really enjoyable to
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: kind of take that ride with her. She's been really
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: hard to shake off, even as I start to work
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: on my next book, because she really did get into
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: my head. Yeah. and really kind of like is very
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: part of me now where I have to kind of
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: like let her go a little bit so I can
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: move on to the next thing. But she stuck with me. Yeah.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: You know, so it's interesting because you said that, you know,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: some of it in writing this book kind of lingers
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: with you. Do you feel like we will hear from
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Nell again?
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, I thought initially no, but I think
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: that there's, there's a part of me that, that is
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: kind of thinking about like, what else can I, where
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: else can I take her? Um, so possibly I guess
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: would be my, my answer. I, it would have been,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: it would have been a straight no a year ago,
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: but I think that, that it's, it's kind of, It's
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: become more of a lingering idea that I can't quite
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: let go of now where I'm thinking it's more a maybe.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Ah, okay. Well, we will take a maybe. In the meantime,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: our audience can pick up their copy of Dark Messiah
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: from author Sarah Z. Carson. It is available to our
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: friends at Amazon.com. You all can get it in print.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: You can get the Kindle edition as well. Go ahead
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: and start reading it. Of course, also at your... a
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: favorite local bookstore. If they don't have it, I'd be
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: more than happy to order it for you. Sarah, I
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: really enjoyed the book, enjoyed our conversation about it. How
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: can our audience stay connected with you?
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Cool. Yes, thank you so much. So my website is sarahzcarsonauthor.com,
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: and you can find all of my social media handles there,
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: all of which are Sarah Z. Carson. So I'm pretty
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: easy to find. But, yeah, definitely, like, I'm trying to,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: you know, post some behind-the-scenes stuff on Instagram, and I
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: do a lot of, I guess it would be blue-skying
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: or blue-skiing, and really love that platform, so you can
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: find me in those places.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Got it. Well, Sarah, congratulations to you. Looking forward to
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: staying connected with you, and looking forward to our next
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: conversation as well.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Me too. Thank you for having me.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Glad to do it. And we thank your audience for
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: tuning in to another great segment of Conversations Live. Until
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: next time, I'm your host, Cyrus Webster. As always, enjoy
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: your day, enjoy your life, enjoy your world. Thank you
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: for being with us here at Conversations Live. Let's go
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: make today amazing. Take care.