Latest / The Growth Project / Episode 355: Why Stress Isn't Always the Enemy

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Episode 355: Why Stress Isn't Always the Enemy · The Growth Project

• 0:00
  You.
• 0:03
  welcome to the growth project. This is Milt Lauter. Join today with Doctor Gabriella.
• 0:08
  Caveats.
• 0:09
  you know, you becoming a regular here on the podcast. So,
• 0:12
  we appreciate your insight. We appreciate your energy around it. And for those of you new to the podcast, this is called the Growth Project. It is a byproduct of AMP plus. We are a performance psychology practice in Greenville, South Carolina. And we do a lot of different things in a lot of different spaces and sports and corporate America and leadership development.
• 0:30
  And people always ask us, you know, what's your ideal client profile? Who are who are you really trying to reach? And I think the three characteristics we always look for, a sense of curiosity, a sense of humility, and a little bit of passion about what you do. And and that means not only passionate about performance, but passionate about people.
• 0:51
  And how do we find that harmony between one's life and their work and what this podcast is about and what we're about is how do we bring the mental skills that help you be successful in business, that help you be successful in sport? And we're also passionate about how they help you be successful in life and so today's topic is one that is so paramount.
• 1:12
  And and we're talking about Gabby managing stress, managing pressure. And that initial thought around stress and pressure is it's a bad thing. And today we just want to provide a different spin provide some research on why stress isn't always the enemy, and how can we do a better job of managing the pressure and managing that stress?
• 1:37
  Absolutely. I think that's something that is crucial, that we see that not all stress and pressure as bad as actually can benefit you.
• 1:45
  Just learning how to, like you said, manage it and reframe it. Yeah. So so paramount right now. You know, I think if you follow the podcast, if you're new to it, I've worked with Clemson University for 20 years and our football team for the last 17, and this season is not going exactly as planned. And we talk about the difference between a reaction and a response.
• 2:07
  And so when I met with the team last week, I just said, hey, write down what is your normal reaction to stress when you hear the word stress and when you're under pressure, what is your normal reaction? And we're going to talk about what those are. But but what I heard was, difficulty concentrating, locked in, focused on what's right in front of me, racing thoughts.
• 2:31
  Physiologically, we, you know, difficulty breathing, difficulty staying focused. And we know, hey, that's your body's normal reaction. It's doing what is prepared to do. But but I always go back to Steph Curry about how he deals with the stress and pressure of not only being Steph Curry, but playing in the biggest of games. And his comment is always his interpretation of the stress and pressure.
• 2:55
  When he starts feeling that pressure, he reminds himself that he's about to do something special. So that gives us insight to maybe how we are going to be human. We're going to see these factors. But, but it gives us insight to maybe how we can start thinking differently about it.
• 3:13
  you make a good point.
• 3:14
  Bring up the Steph Curry example is that we don't stress or feel pressure around things that we don't value or care about. So there's this inherent, you know, degree of this is important placed on an event and you want to perform well and this is your body actively preparing you to do that. Yeah. So good. And I love that reframe like like things that don't matter.
• 3:38
  We know that classic stress performance curve you know is Dodson the know we always thought it was a bell curve. But recent researchers realize that it's quite not. But in that lower quadrant of stress, you know, the ratio between physiological arousal and stress and performance and that lower quadrant on that bell curve, the performance is not there because they just don't care about it.
• 4:01
  I remember my first year at Kentucky get my doctorate. You're supposed to be smart. I think. Or I think at least it's going to make me smart and I get through. I'm a major professor, doctor Kate says to me, hey, Milt, we've got a problem. Some people think you have a chance to be one of our best students ever.
• 4:18
  And I'm like, well, how is that a problem? She goes, well, a lot of people think you have a chance to be the worst. And I'm like, well, what classes are you talking about? I still remember this in her office. She's like, well, those classes like research methods and statistics and, quantitative analysis. And I was like, yeah, I don't like those classes.
• 4:35
  And so I didn't see the value in them. So there was no pressure. No stress means no engagement, no focus, no effort. And so I love your language, Gabby. The the things that causes stress are things we really value. Right. And that's part of living life. That is I need to hear you say, I had a very similar experience going into my degree, where I completed all my coursework for not performance coaching.
• 5:00
  Yeah, sports psychology and performance psychology. So I ended up having to take a bunch of statistics classes and my first two years of my PhD were not the most motivated on my end. Yeah, because I just didn't care. Okay. Now what I want to do. Yeah. So yeah, it's that direct relationship and so balancing that. And so let's go back on the research about stress and pressure.
• 5:27
  It's such a buzz word. We're overwhelming amounts of anxiety and stress in the world today. The constant comparison and busyness of life. And pressure to perform and the pressure we put on young people to be great at everything, at a at every age. But but lots of research say kind of differences between like stress and pressure and, and positive pressure and negative pressure.
• 5:49
  What's some of the classic research that we know exist. Yeah. Well, we know that there's really two main types of stress. There's distress, which I think is what most people think of when you hear the word stress. It's that negative, connotation. It's where you have a lot of things on your plate. You don't feel like you have the coping resources to do all of the things you need to do, and it creates this, that I should mentality.
• 6:17
  I should be able to do these things. I can't do these things. And the self-talk becomes negative. Whereas the other side of stress is what we call it. You stress. And it's really this positive stress in your life. Getting a promotion, getting married, graduating these are all good things that they bring along with them. You know, challenges they bring along with them, opportunities for growth.
• 6:43
  And you're viewing it that way. Whereas with this stress, you're viewing the challenges as threats, things that you might not be able to overcome. Yeah. And so if we understand a little bit then the stress and distress maybe, of course, I'm biased of being a cognitive psychologist that, as we think about it, you know, the classic old proverb as you think, so you are that if we can see it differently.
• 7:07
  And that's where I think we spend a lot of time in our work helping people understand their normal reaction to stress, that that your brain and body are doing what it's created to do. And so that autonomic nervous system was created. They taught it to me in my physiological psychology class, calling it the four F's. You know, fight, fight, feed that other F I won't mention, but if you think about that, it's all related to our survival.
• 7:36
  So. So walk us through a little bit and I'll and I'll maybe add to it the way it was taught to me, walk us through a little bit of what what is our body's normal reaction that all the nervous system, that sympathetic nervous system gets activated? What are some of the effects on our brains and our body when we feel that stress?
• 7:55
  Yeah. So, so you have the initial physical reaction where you get an increased heart rate. What's happening there is your body is trying to prepare you pumping blood to the areas in your body that you need to perform well, oxygen to the brain, getting you more activated, aware of what's going on around you. Cognitively, you start processing all the stimulus around you, taking in every cue.
• 8:19
  And then, like you said, you're now responding to those. So increased heart rate increased breathing. You can even start to see things like your muscle tension becoming more, activated as well as, I think I already mentioned your heart rate. Yeah. So that that that sympathetic nervous system, that cortisol, that, that, that perceived threat, that cortisol struggle triggers the adrenal glands and adrenaline floods the body.
• 8:48
  And what you're describing, Gabby, it activates everything we need to survive in that moment of fight or flight. And so in addition to the the difficulty breathing, because you're trying to get oxygen to bring in the increased heart, now your body has to get rid of that excess energy. You know, glucose is flowing through the body from the liver.
• 9:05
  And you got all this. So, so the sweat, you see, people sometimes break out in hives because your body's reacting to that. Here's what you don't need. You don't need to eat. So your digestive system shuts down. So those are those butterflies, that, you don't need to go to the bathroom. So your urinary tract and your bowel shut down.
• 9:23
  The cognitively, you start processing that stimulus. And your brain's processing what's a threat? What's not a threat? And so we know the brain narrows its field of vision to really think about the threat. You know, the way it was told to me. The caveman walked outside, and he sees a saber toothed tiger sitting right in front of them.
• 9:40
  If he has to stop and think, What are what I he's dead. So immediately. That's all dynamically, automatically that brain and body is preparing to fight or flee from that saber tooth tiger. He's not worried about the 100 yards away. And so that's what makes dealing with our stress so challenging, because we're so focused on the threat right in front of us, right.
• 10:05
  And, you know, I remember, Rory McIlroy talking about going to the first tee, sitting on a two shot lead in the Masters this year. I mean, trying to win it for 17 years, complete the career Grand Slam. And they asked him in an interview room, hey, what was it like going to that first tee? And he said, your legs feel like jelly.
• 10:26
  You can't walk, you can't breathe, you can't even, process food. You can't eat, and your mind is numb. Those were his descriptors of walking to the first tee, of trying to win the Masters. Right. And and we know what tends to happen. His performance. He gave away the lead very quickly. And so what I think is so important in this part of and maybe you want to hit pause button on on this podcast right now and answer the question that I asked our football team last week.
• 11:02
  What is your most normal reaction to stress? And since we aren't very self-aware, here's what you may want to ask those around you. How do you know when I'm stressed? Yeah, ask your colleagues. Ask your coaches. Ask your partner. Ask your children. The children will tell you the truth. What is stress look like in your life? What is your, quote unquote, normal human reaction to stress?
• 11:27
  And then if you can start understanding how you react to it, what we're going to give you next are some skills of how we want you to respond. And I believe that in a reaction and a response is the freedom to choose. I completely agree. Yeah. The, Viktor Frankl said, but I think it was Viktor Frankl between stimulus and response, there is possibility for action.
• 11:52
  And that's what separates us from the animals as human beings is our brains have the tendency and the ability to choose our response instead of just instinctually reacting to the world around us. Yes. And that reaction is where we have to reprogram, because the instinctual reaction is to, yeah. And most of the time in a negative way, flee or avoid, the stressor or protect yourself from it because you view it as that threat.
• 12:27
  So now choosing an action that helps you take on a more growth mindset, approach it. How do I overcome this challenge as opposed to run from the threat? Yeah. And how do I accept it? And I think to me, when you've heard me talk about playing free, that stands for focus, relax, engage and enjoy the relax. Peace is how do I quiet my mind and quiet my body and what we're trying to do go back to your course.
• 12:51
  Dodson in that inverted you. We're trying to help you find your ideal zone of optimum performance. The Aussie off and the flying. And what we know is you got to activate. And those are things that we value and care about. And so you get to activate your brain, activate your body to get ready to accept that challenge.
• 13:13
  But once we know about that reaction, once we cross that threshold, historically, the research kind of suggests it gives us slow, steady decline. And what we realize is, once we cross that threshold, my brain and my body's ability to perform drops dramatically. It drops off a cliff. And I think, man, I cannot remember the researcher, but I know it's in positive psychology that the research suggests that when my brain is in that negative anxious state, it's 31% less productive, less creative, less innovative, less problem solving, less connected.
• 13:48
  You know, one of the things I talk about a reaction to stress is that makes you selfish. Gabby. Back back to why your brain's focused on you. You narrow down. Yeah, I'm focused on me. And when I am under stress means I cannot see how my stress is impacting you. And then cortisol that stress hormone, also creates separation from others.
• 14:08
  Right. And so you either withdrawal or you just try to do sometimes what you try to do it yourself, which, which why are you laughing. That is.
• 14:20
  The same things I get. That's her. Yeah. And handled herself. Yeah. And and so if you made it through this far then congratulations. You were human. And so what are some skills? What are the four skills we really want to talk about today, Gabby, to help people deal with their stress and to view it as is of, if not necessarily a friend, but at least not the enemy, right?
• 14:42
  Well, the first one is one that I prioritize a lot, and the work that I do with athletes and individuals is cognitive reframing. Really changing the way that you're thinking about the stress in your life. And, we'll go on a whole tangent on that in a moment here. But the next is going to be breathing. So regulating your breath, we know that that has a direct relationship to these autonomic responses and then self-talk.
• 15:10
  So you know something we've had previous podcast talks on. But how do you change the way you're talking to yourself? You know, you're having those 70,000 thoughts a day. And how do we make sure that those are positive, not negative. And then finally focus control. This is so, so important when we think about the different, approaches to where you're directing your focus, avoiding that narrow tunnel vision, being able to still take in the information that you need to, to perform well, so those will really be the four key areas that we'll target in on today.
• 15:50
  Yeah. So let's dive in. I am so heavily cognitive based. Let's dive in on the cognitive reframing, the cognitive restructuring. So so talk a little bit about that. So this one I think back to the article get Excited by Allison Wood Brooks at Harvard. But that Harvard Business Academy and she really did this whole research study where she had different groups of people and they all had to do a task, a public speaking task or a math based task.
• 16:25
  And one group was told to not change anything about the way that they're thinking, just approach it the way they typically would. And another group was told to, you know, even when you feel that pressure, when you feel the stress coming on, tell yourself, I'm excited. And what the results show is that while both groups reported high stress, high pressure, the group that before they perform told themselves, I'm excited.
• 16:54
  I'm not stressed. They performed significantly better than the group that just focused on being stressed. And that resonated with me quite well. And, went down a whole the whole here. And the research is astounding that when you just change the way you're thinking about the stress in your life, you perform better. And if you say, okay, I have a big presentation at work coming up and there's a lot riding on this, you can focus on the negative saying that, well, if I don't perform well, then I'm not going to get that promotion.
• 17:29
  Or you can reframe that and say, this is an opportunity to show how competent I am to prove to my boss that I do deserve my promotion. And that simple reframing takes a lot of the pressure and negative stress away. Yeah. And so being human and that is it's okay to have that negative thought again, your brain's just doing what it's supposed to do.
• 17:49
  And so it's okay to have the negative thought. And and what I want to add here is sometimes asking question from a position of weakness and stress creates even more doubt and anxiety because your brain is automatically telling you, hey, if you're asking yourself, do I have what it takes? Is is this going to go well? Your brain's automatically telling you that it's not.
• 18:08
  And the way I try to teach that, I often ask people, have you ever heard a happy person ask him a happy or successful person? Ask him how successful or a prepared person ask him unprepared. The moment you asked a question, your brain's telling you that you are not. And so that's a normal human reaction to to say, I'm going to lose my job or this isn't going to go well.
• 18:28
  But again, being human, what is my response? So go back to that. Adrenaline. Adrenaline is released not only when we're anxious, when we're excited, when we're fired up, when we're ready to do battle, when we're when we're performing at our highest. And so it's making sure we interpret the emotions correctly. Yeah. I always ask this question, what is the difference physically from feeling stressed versus feeling excited?
• 18:58
  Most times when you ask that question, very subtle differences, if any. Yeah. What happens to your heart rate in both instances, it increases what happens to your breathing. It speeds up. Do you get jittery? Do you get excited? Do you start moving around? Absolutely. When you get stressed, you get jittery. You start fidgeting. Absolutely. So you still have the same physical reactions to these emotions, and it's your choice to say, okay, this is stress or this is exciting.
• 19:30
  Yeah. And how we interpret it can be the biggest difference between being who you want to be and how you want to perform, or not being proud of how you showed up. Good. But what Rory McIlroy is interpretation on that first tee, he said it's good to be emotional. And it goes back to me that value what I'm doing.
• 19:47
  I care about what I'm doing. Go back to Steph Curry, I'm about to do something special. Scottie Scheffler walks to the first tee and he says I am prepared. He's asking questions right. And so how are you going to interpret the emotions. How can you change the way you think about stress. That first part of restructuring and reframing let's lends itself to the power of.
• 20:10
  The second one is that breath control and breath regulation. And the research is pretty profound. Ear is it's hard to be anxious at relax at the same time. Can't do it. Yeah. It's really challenging. So so talk a little bit about the breathing and the proper way of breathing and why that helps reset that sympathetic nervous system. Right.
• 20:30
  Activates that parasympathetic nervous system and brings us back to homeostasis. This is where you get your control back, because this is where you can regulate your breathing in a way so that you slow your heart rate down so that you slow that autonomic response system, and you basically completely disrupt that cycle where by, you know, one of the most, research techniques is the four, seven, eight or diaphragmatic breathing, where you inhale for four counts, hold for seven, exhale for eight.
• 21:04
  If we were to try that right now, I encourage you, if you're listening to try that. So so someone make it like like those who are watching this. What what might that look like? Because here's what I see. Will not you ever tell somebody to take a breath? I go it which which sends a signal to your brain.
• 21:21
  I need more oxygen. I'm really in trouble. I'm really stressed. And we tend to start hyperventilate because we. It's not a diaphragmatic breath. It's just really. I mean, from there. Yeah. Shoulders, shoulders tense it versus that die for magic breath. And so how would you maybe model that. Or is there a can you show them. Maybe
• 21:41
  Yeah. So it's really a deep inhale into belly breathing rather than chest breathing. So when I take this deep breath you won't really see my chest move at all. You would see my stomach start to expand. So you do an inhale through the nose.
• 22:04
  So my shoulders. Yeah. If you are watching, I think that's a distinguishing characteristic. Shoulder stay even. You breathe deep into your belly. And then exhale long and slow. Feel your body fully relaxed with that. And so now we're starting to quiet the mind, quiet the body, and now you're you're in that zone. And in the present moment, which is where life happens and performance takes place.
• 22:34
  And so oftentimes with anxiety, so focus on the future. And then anticipatory anxiety increases that stress level and decreases my confidence. So now we've restructured the brain. I'm thinking differently. It's good to be emotional. I'm about to do something special as well as now. Physiologically, I've created a mechanism to to bring my body back to normal, right?
• 23:03
  Not only bring your body back to normal, but also you mentioned anxiety is one of the biggest symptoms is that is feeling a lack of control. Yeah. And so now you have a degree of control back and you feel like okay I can can change this for me. I can alter the way that I'm showing up. And so those constant thought I need to I have to I should if you just say those to yourself right now, that adds pressure.
• 23:29
  And what we're trying to teach you is that art of performance, the art of leadership is knowing when to add pressure and knowing when to take it away. And what we're trying to teach you today is not, hey, the pressure you're experiencing. Probably very few of you, if you're listening to this podcast, need to add pressure to your life.
• 23:45
  And we're not talking about taking it away, but how do we reframe it? How do we take back control? How do we deal with that stress? To help me accomplish what I want to accomplish and more importantly, be who I want to be? Right? This is extremely relevant right now. We're coming up on holidays. You're going to add to the stress you already have in a good way.
• 24:08
  You're going to probably be going to travel to see family, which can be very stressful, right? Yeah. But it's what we classify as a good stressor. It's just viewing it that way. So hopefully these tools will help you going into this busy season, you know, and so if we think about the two things we've talked about, the cognitive restructuring is changing the paradigm.
• 24:30
  The bread, the breathing regulation is controlling the physiological response. Which now brings me to the present moment, which is where self-talk can really take place in that present moment. And so when we think about the self-talk in that moment, the scripts that we want to create, how do we get our brains to work for us in that moment of pressure and stress?
• 24:49
  What what might you recommend? Well, the research shows that we really want to use self-talk in a way that fits our confidence and our focus, especially when we're trying to navigate stress or high pressure situations. So this is where I always recommend focusing on either positive self-talk or that neutral instructional self-talk, where neutral instructional is going to help you direct your focus to what it needs to be in that moment, and positive it's going to be this, that confidence.
• 25:18
  I've got this. I'm prepared. I've done the work. I know that I put in, you know, hours and hours into preparing this presentation. I've practiced and I feel confident in the key. There is you can't lie to yourself. Yeah. And but what evidence do you have to believe? What you were telling yourself and everything you just said, like you've been through difficult things.
• 25:41
  You've done difficult things in your life. You've accepted the challenge in different areas. I got this, I can do this. So the reason I play homegrown for a football team, Isaac Brown, because it says I have everything I need and nothing that I don't. That's a positive self-talk in that moment to encourage you to take action. And the neutral is is not necessarily necessarily outcome related.
• 26:05
  It's just what can I do next in that moment? What's the next thing I can do? That just keeps me focus on the task and allows me to stay in the present moment. So what might an example of a neutral self-talk be? Well, if we're going with the same example of a presentation, it's could be something as simple as speak clearly.
• 26:25
  Yeah. It could be focus on, the deliverables. What message am I getting across? If we're thinking about sport, it's really much more in detail. I have to. Yeah. Kick the ball for, for my receiver. Yeah, whatever that may be. Or read my keys or, swing thought or, you know, square to the basket, follow through.
• 26:56
  You know, follow through on my backhand. Move my feet. Our defensive coordinator talks about being noisy, like communicate. Those are very specific process scripts that allow you just to stay focused on the task at hand, which lends to my favorite quote, one of my favorite quotes about the road that says success comes with those are too busy, be looking for it, right?
• 27:21
  And so not only are they too busy, focus on the task at hand that they can't worry about the outcome. This is really important. The closer you get to the finish that it's the start, the finish, that anticipatory anxiety getting going. But the closer you get the finish of a sporting event or a presentation or life or a quarter or month or business, your brain peaks ahead.
• 27:43
  Which increases the anxiety and decreases confidence. And then the last piece is in that how can I start focusing what I can control, which may be the most overused, cliche or thing in sports psychology. But but back to what are we too busy doing? I'm too busy. Focus on the things I can control and I know I've got a list of those, but.
• 28:06
  But when you teach this, I don't know how you teach this. When you talk about the controllables, how do you frame it? I always frame it and it occurs framework where I use internal, external, broad and narrow assets for conference. Right. So you have your internal and external access and your broad to narrow access. And each quadrant there's a different type of focus where if we say, okay, I have a, broad internal focus, I'm focusing on just this overarching feeling, feeling pressure.
• 28:44
  I'm feeling nervous. And if that is consuming you in a negative way, let's shift it to something more uncontrollable. Let's shift it to an external narrow for now. Okay? Let's take the focus away from how your body's feeling. The negative, nervous, and shifted on to the task. This goes back to what we were just talking about with the instructional or process self-talk.
• 29:11
  What is one small thing you can direct your focus to that's going to help you move forward? Yeah. And do what you need to. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. And I you know, I always teach kind of the maybe the broad the things we can't control. We can't change the past. We can't change the future. We can't control the outcome.
• 29:27
  We can't control other people. Here's what we can do in the moment. I kind of go back to the thought when we aren't perfect in our thought life. The big picture the one thing we can do is our effort. Control, our effort, that mindset. We're going to be the best that we can be. I'm going be proud of how I show up and hopefully that's good enough to accomplish what we're trying to accomplish.
• 29:46
  Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Well, I've enjoyed this conversation. We think about next steps. If we think about putting these four skills into practice, to me, I get excited for our listeners thinking about how much better your response could be if you put these things into practice around cognitive reframing, around breath control, around, self-talk script and around really just focus on what you can control.
• 30:10
  But what would be some next steps, recommendations of how to put this into practice? Well, the first is really, you know, get comfortable being uncomfortable. Put yourself in those high pressure environments. Try to simulate those emotions that you experience when you're stressed and learn how to regulate them. And a more low pressure environment, right. So you have control.
• 30:34
  You're basically allowing yourself to get. And going back to a big presentation, let me first present it to my spouse or to my coworker. I'll probably still get nervous. I'll probably still feel some pressure. It's not as high stakes. Yeah. So I can learn and practice these regulation strategies. And then that will help me going into the big event.
• 30:58
  And then of course, we have reflection. You first have to ask yourself that question of how do I respond to stress? What is my typical reaction, and what do I need to change about my reaction to stress? And I think those two things are really, really effective for learning how to shift this perspective on what's right.
• 31:23
  Yeah, I love this idea. And I think, you know, it's my view of leadership. It's my view of parenting is, you know, we're talking about building self-efficacy and not self esteem. And as leaders, if we do things for other people, we rob them of the privilege of pressure. We rob them of the opportunity to know they can do difficult things.
• 31:43
  And we have enabled them in such a way that we've undermined their confidence and we've exaggerated that stress response. And so you have to lead yourself before you lead others, and so can you have some courage to step into some difficult situations, some courageous conversations, that thing that you've been avoiding, that relationship that is that you haven't had the courage to speak into or going for that job promotion or dreaming big that you've avoided.
• 32:13
  You've interpreted your stress in such a negative way that you've let it set a limit on who you can become and what you can accomplish. And so I love that self-reflection. Like, how is my stress setting limits on me? How is it impacting me? And if it's good to be emotional, it means I'm still alive. And as long as I'm alive, I got a chance.
• 32:33
  How can I do something differently so I don't look back and wish I could have done what I didn't do when I could have, and and then get other people involved in your life. I've really enjoyed this conversation. I think, I've enjoyed kind of, you know, seeing a fresh perspective from you and your insight.
• 32:52
  And I love the research you've brought to this today. And we'll try to provide those in the, in the podcast. Just if people want to read a little bit more about it, final thoughts or comments about stress, pressure. I think the biggest thing is just to really try to reframe it in this positive way, accept stress.
• 33:11
  It's not going away. If anything, you're going to get more over the coming weeks and months. So just prepare yourself. And yeah, hopefully these skills will help you navigate the upcoming stress in your life. Absolutely. I've enjoyed the conversation. Please, if you enjoyed it, like us or I think that's the right word or what is it? Subscribe.
• 33:31
  That's it. Subscribe. This is not my expertise. And and we always value your questions and feedback. And so if there if you want a more deeper dive into this. If you have a question, if you have reflection, if you have hey, you were able to put this into practice. We love the opportunity to be relevant in your life.
• 33:48
  We love the chance to encourage you, and hopefully inspire you. So thank you for listening. And until next time, continue to be better and pursue better.