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The Nurse Was SHOCKED At Our Daughter's Birth (Real Life Family Team Example!) · The Family Teams Podcast

• 0:00
  I didn't even have this as a goal. It never even entered my realm of thinking. And like Kelsey said, I got emotional. I was just like, what? Like, no way. I wasn't even hoping for that. It hadn't even entered my mind. So just to be able to pass that on to you guys, it is a possibility and that it is something you could have in your hopes and dreams.
• 0:21
  Hi, welcome to the Family Teams Podcast. Our goal here is to help your family become a multi-generational team on mission by providing you with biblically rooted concepts, tools, and rhythms. Your hosts are Jeremy Pryor and Jefferson Bethke, and we can't wait to chat about all things family.
• 0:39
  Hey everybody, welcome back to the podcast. I'm here with my lovely daughter, Kelsey Gull, and April Pryor, my wife. And we're going to have a family conversation. How are you guys doing today? Good, I'm in. And Kelsey Joy is holding Penelope Joy, who is how old? She is less than two weeks. Yeah. 10 days? 11 days. 11 days? Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, well, this is our first granddaughter. And one of the things I think would be really helpful to talk about today is, and one is a little unusual, is that April was...
• 1:09
  a part of the birth process. And I wanted to maybe just start and have you Kelsey talk about, I know there was like, this was not viewed as normal by those who were attending the birth. So maybe you could tell that story and then we will back up and we'll talk about kind of the whole process. But I think one of the things would be really helpful for everyone to like think through and just as we're processing too as a family,
• 1:38
  When you're building a multi-generational family, I think that this could and maybe ought to look different, particularly the way that the mother matriarch, you know, grandmother functions within the family. So we've got four daughters. And so April's been really diligently trying to figure out how to do this because this is going to be a big part of our lives. God willing. So, yeah, Kelsey, why don't you start and maybe tell that part of the story and then we'll back up and kind of look at the big picture.
• 2:05
  Sure. Mom was at my first birth with Elijah. And the way that came about was Matthew, my husband, and I were just talking about who we wanted. At the birth, we were taking a birth class. Both births were in the hospital. And I had to tell them who I wanted to.
• 2:26
  in the room with me and so obviously you know I wrote his name down and he was like is there anyone else that you'd want and I was like well I want my mom there and he was like oh really and I was like yeah I feel like I didn't think too much about it and then I asked mom and I feel like you got emotional but I was just asking and I didn't really think that that was like a huge deal I was just like well you're my mom so yeah
• 2:51
  And she was there for the whole like 30 hours, super long induction process. And that story is very different than this story. But then when I got pregnant again, I asked Matthew, I was like, are you OK if my mom comes again? He was like, yeah, that was great. So we just asked her again and.
• 3:09
  Honestly, I didn't think too deeply about it, but I feel like the two of us had learned and talked a lot about after Elijah's birth and during my pregnancy with Penny about what birth's supposed to look like and historically what it was like and what it's turned into now and things like that. So it was just kind of like an ongoing conversation between mom and I, I feel like the whole pregnancy
• 3:34
  Um, and part of that, what came out of it was her wanting to take a doula course. And I remember when you told me that you signed up for a doula course, I was like, oh,
• 3:45
  Oh, that makes so much sense. Because I had kind of been going back and forth about, like, everyone said, like, you should have a doula if you're going to the hospital because, like, they can help advocate for you and, like, all these things. But they're, like, expensive and they're not usually, like, covered by any type of insurance or whatever. And so I was like, I don't know if I can hire one. And we kind of interviewed one last time and didn't really click with her. And so I was just kind of intimidated by the whole, like, interviewing process. Like, we want a stranger there. I don't know. And...
• 4:15
  And so when you told me that you wanted to take a doula course, I thought that makes so much more sense. Because, I mean, odds are you'll probably be at more births, at least more of mine, and then maybe some of the other sisters and stuff. We'll see. But I got really excited about that. And then you took the course and we're like talking about it the whole time and really into it. And a lot of it was like this...
• 4:37
  like bag of tricks that you bring along with you and things like that. And so if like fast forward to the actual hospital, we had this nurse, her name was Jodi. Shout out to Jodi at CV. And she was awesome. I really liked her and labor and delivery. And somewhere in the after Penny was born and like the golden hour time where they're letting the baby just sit on mom's chest for a
• 5:07
  She said there was some comment about how long I was in labor for. And I was like, well, it was like active labor for probably like 10 hours. But I've had like four days of like what I would call pre-labor, like kept thinking he was going to start and then it would go away and all that kind of stuff. And I just kind of gestured over to mom and I was like, well, I mean, she labored for five days with me. So, you know, I kind of, you know, it's like payback, like making a joke or something.
• 5:34
  And she kind of looked between the two of us and was like, wait, you're the mom? And we were like, yeah, yeah. And she's like, yeah, I'm the grandma. I'm the mom. And the nurse was like, wait, I thought you were the doula. Are you the doula? And like, yeah, well, she's kind of both like, you know, trying to explain. And she was so shocked. And she just kept looking back and forth between the two of us like, what? Wait, you're what? What?
• 6:00
  And during the whole labor time, she never picked up on the fact that you were my mom. And the comment that she made was, you have such good boundaries.
• 6:13
  And she kind of talked about how like usually when the mom's in the room, she, the nurse, has to like, the mom is like a whole person that she needs to like manage and take care of and make sure she's like kept busy and not freaking out and whatever. And she didn't have to do that this time and thought that mom was actually really helpful. And so I think she was just really surprised by that. And so we just came away from that kind of processing like, oh, yeah.
• 6:42
  If a daughter felt comfortable enough to ask her mom to come with her, it still might not be a positive experience during the labor process. And so, I don't know, we've just been kind of processing that a little bit since then. Yeah.
• 7:01
  Yeah. Having a nurse that maybe has seen hundreds of these and never seen anything like this. And I'm sure people listening to this are like, I would never want my mom. She's the last person I'd want while I'm actually, you know, in active labor. And that's really unfortunate. It seems like it seems like there is something natural about this connection as opposed to like really unusual. But it is unusual, like in our culture.
• 7:25
  The Family Plan Calendar is the new way to keep your family team organized. Plan your rhythms, menu, household chores, and notes for the family all in one place. Visit FamilyTeams.com to purchase. Yeah, I'd love April for you to reflect on. What do you think? Yeah, tell us what brought you to want to do this, and how have you thought about this from the big picture perspective about a mother, matriarch, and her daughter?
• 7:56
  Well, I think it was interesting that she, the way the nurse worded it saying, you have such good boundaries. You have such good boundaries. She couldn't believe my boundaries. And I, you know, was kind of like, okay. And she even said something like, you two must get along really well or you must have a good relationship or something like that. Yeah.
• 8:21
  So I just was reflecting on that a lot in the day's hints. And I think that what she was labeling good boundaries, I would call like an understanding of roles. Yeah.
• 8:36
  And I know that we've tried to throw that out, you know, the idea of roles and a lot of modern society. But I think that I like I believe very strongly that my son in law is the head of Kelsey now and that this birthing process is for them to experience together.
• 8:58
  And, um, that although it's a massive privilege for me to get to be a part of it, it's not about me. And, um, so I am there to help Kelsey and support her, um, much as I have throughout her whole life. Since she, since I was pregnant with her, it's been my goal to help Kelsey succeed and do things well. And, um, yeah.
• 9:24
  So in this, in that context, I felt like my role, I understood what my role was. I was mother to the birthing woman. And so I, and then I think my understanding of what that role was, was very much a support role and what needs to be done and what.
• 9:48
  you know, it's about her, not about me. And it's about getting this baby into this world safely. And it's about how can I not get in the way of Kelsey and Matt's relationship during this process, but also...
• 10:04
  It's kind of bonding between him and I as well, because we're working together to get this massive job accomplished of supporting Kelsey in the time of her most vulnerable time in her race is when she's in labor. And how can we, how can I step into that role of...
• 10:24
  making sure she's okay so it doesn't matter if I'm uncomfortable holding my body in a position to you know reach around to her back and make sure that I'm rubbing that one spot she wants in her back while Matt's doing this thing over here like it doesn't matter if I'm getting wet in the shower or those things it's like what is happening to Kelsey what does she need what position is she in all those things um
• 10:45
  It just comes from the instant Kelsey was born. It's like, what does she mean? How do I take care of her? How do I make that happen? And when she said, you guys must get along really well or have a good relationship or something, I was also reflecting on that. And I was like, well, that's a hard one. That's a hard—we fought for our relationship. And we worked really hard through the years to—
• 11:12
  you know, overcome any hurdles that were in the way of us having, um, a good relationship. And so I, I just, I feel like to me getting to be in a birth of a daughter is like a huge, um, fruit of years of hard work, um, relationally and self-sacrifice along the way. It was a huge, like, yes, um,
• 11:40
  epic experience to get to be a part of.
• 11:44
  Yeah. And so many, so many people I think that, you know, we're trying to speak to are probably young moms, you know, maybe with you, you may be listening to this and have a daughter, young daughters, or you're looking forward to maybe someday having daughters-in-law. You're going to be faced with this opportunity. And I think that there, this is a huge epiphany. They, they kind of what culture calls boundaries needs to exist because we decided to throw our roles.
• 12:12
  I think that was the big epiphany that we're all kind of realizing. So boundaries is on the rise as a conversation. And it does make sense that if every single person is just an individual and all everyone's needs are sort of equal and everyone should just fight for their own needs to be met, then you do become a fairly unsafe person. If you if you bring that kind of spirit into the delivery room, like a nurse knows why she's there. Right. She's not there to get her needs. She's being paid a salary in order for her to.
• 12:42
  serve the people that she's serving in the hospital, right? The doctors, all the people, they know their role. But in the family, we've decided let's just destroy all roles and just like pretend like we're just individuals. And that is devastating when it comes to when you actually are trying to function like a family.
• 12:59
  Um, and what we're trying to articulate or trying to understand is that like in the same way that when you're a team and, you know, you wouldn't say if you're, you know, playing some kind of sports team that the quarterback has such good boundaries. He didn't, you know, he threw the ball instead of like, you know, uh, ran for a catch. Like that's not boundaries, right? That's, he understands the difference between his role and, you know, the wide receiver or whatever, right? So in the family, there are these roles.
• 13:29
  Because we've now not only decided to get rid of them, but now generations are being raised having never even seen these roles before. And if it comes up, they're immediately stamped as like, oh, that's regressive, that's traditional, that somehow puts people into...
• 13:47
  into some kind of like unfree, restrictive world, as opposed to the freedom that you guys got to experience and being able to be in the hospital room and have this incredible experience together because you actually understood the roles. So yeah, I think that's a big paradigm shift. So Kels, what are your thoughts about that transition? Yeah, well, I'll say that like, so the way that mom...
• 14:14
  The things that she did in both of my births were like, if one thing needed to be done, it went straight to Matthew. And then if two things needed to be done, then I can do the second thing, is what I would say. But this time, I went into labor on my own. And so I was laboring at home. And it was in the middle of the night. So it was just Matthew and I for a majority of that part.
• 14:40
  And then but mom was like awake and like probably really anxious. Like, is this actually happening now? And so I texted her when my contractions got close enough together. I was like, OK, I think it's time for you to come. And then her and Matthew kind of took turns being with me during my contractions and like finishing packing the hospital bag or loading up the car or whatever.
• 15:02
  And then we had talked about ahead of time that mom would drive so that Matthew, she could drop us off at the door and he could be the one going in with me. And in the car ride, he's like timing my contractions and everything. So I feel like if there was like a role that was...
• 15:25
  closer relationally, like being the one to walk in the hospital and go into triage, like that kind of thing, that automatically went to Matthew. So do you feel like if I had been giving birth like 10 years ago, do you feel like you would have been the same way in the delivery room? Or do you feel like there's something in the raising of teens and adults, like somewhere in that transition that um...
• 15:55
  that part of your role kind of got realized? Because I feel like that the teen to adult transition has been a big learning curve, I guess. Do you feel like that was part of it? Or do you feel like that it's more of like a personality thing that you would have done either way? I feel like it has been a progression. Like definitely the 10-year-ago me, I don't think I would have...
• 16:24
  Yeah, I think it's a really good question. I feel like it's just part of the progression of life, like the stages of motherhood. It just makes sense that this is the order that it would come in and that I'd have to go through these things in order to be here and these things in order to be here. And I think a lot of the term like capacity, I talk about this a lot with like your capacity grows with each step.
• 16:54
  with each passing season, then you're able to tackle more things. And I feel like this is just a natural progression because you've let it be natural. I've let it be natural. The Lord has guided us this way, that it does seem like a natural progression. And the 10-year-ago me
• 17:18
  wouldn't have known how or what or, you know, just wasn't ready or wouldn't have had the training even just like in my mothering. Yeah. That's good. So like a question. Yeah. Well, and I think, you know, one of the things I picture...
• 17:35
  A mom who might be listening to this is thinking, oh, I would love to have that experience with my daughter someday. I want to be the kind of person who could be in the delivery room when she's at her most vulnerable and in a lot of pain to know that she could trust me. And so I like what you're saying, Kelsey. A lot of that maturity comes through parenting teens. Yeah.
• 17:58
  I think there is a lot there's a lot to be said about that. But yeah, I'm curious, April, if there's anything else you would add to that to just like what, like you were giving a tutorial to a mom who wants to have this experience. What are some things you would encourage them to think about or to believe or to do to get ready for this? Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:19
  I would say in the younger years, meaning when your child, your daughter is like, you know, zero to 10 or zero to 12 or something like that, that you're, you know, talking about motherhood in a very positive light, that it's a gift to be able to raise a next generation. To be talking about birth stories in a positive light instead of like a traumatized, terrified way.
• 18:45
  Um, so it's something that your daughters are looking forward to and know that it wasn't like, um, you know, it was something that you experienced yourself and that you hope that someday they get to experience. So a lot of times I feel like at the beginning part of their life, just talking about actual birth and babies and all that is like in a positive light, motherhood, how much I love being a mom, all that stuff.
• 19:10
  is important. And then I feel in the teen years, you don't necessarily even need to talk about those things, but you're working so hard on just your relationship. And I feel like one way I grew a ton in the teen years when my kids were teens, and I still have a couple, but...
• 19:27
  is learning how to back off, learning when to keep my mouth shut, how to control my reactions to things, how to, knowing that I have trained them in this way, and if their actions or their behavior doesn't necessarily match their training,
• 19:43
  not getting, going into despair, just allowing space and time to happen for them to explore things, you know, their life, their reactions, their beliefs, their everything from like what they want to wear to how they're going to drive a car to how they're going to treat those in authority, like all of the things where they start to get a little more freedom and as you watch how they grow and develop, giving them time and space
• 20:12
  to experience things and being able to circle back around. And it makes you more of a safe person if you know you're not just going to be like jumping on every single thing. And I think as moms, we have potentially have so much fear for our kids. Like we fear for their safety. We fear they're going to make a bad decision or they're going to make a mistake. They're going to regret for the rest of their lives. And so there can be all this fear that controls us, but learning how to trust the Lord with them still, it's like,
• 20:39
  you know, the peeling of the hands and opening it up and just saying, okay, God, you see this. You see it. You know what's going on. You're pursuing them. You have a relationship with them. I have to trust the Lord that he is pursuing my child in such a way that I
• 20:59
  They will hopefully meet each other on the pass and my child will fall in love with the Lord. That's my hope and prayer for them. And so along that journey, as I'm stepping back and giving them space, I'm learning how to control myself and with the Lord's help of not controlling or domineering or guilt tripping, all those things that are huge temptations for me.
• 21:22
  um to to back off watch and then i think the marriage process is part of that too like watching your child meet their spouse fall in love not knowing if it's their spouse or not and then them making the decision and then the wedding planning and then them actually getting married and like living the newlywed life you you learn a lot in that stage too yeah
• 21:44
  of trusting the Lord with your kid's future, with their spouse, kind of taking that place in their life. And then believing in my heart that this is a good design. And so if I actually believe it, my actions better match it. So I've had to learn a lot about that. So it comes in stages, but those are from now, from my very limited perspective, because Kelsey's only been married two and a half years. So
• 22:10
  I've only known it for this long, but what I have known would be those things. I've only attended two births of hers. So we'll see if that's something my other daughters want. But you kind of project yourself into the future. If I want her to trust me and want me around in that scenario, I better like...
• 22:32
  you know, not try to pull the wool over her eyes in this decision or not trying to coerce her or, you know, manipulate her into what I want her to do now. I want her to understand that I'm going to want what's best for her. Let her see both sides of the coin when she's decision making and things like that.
• 22:49
  Yeah. I think that one of these that's been really encouraging to me about long-term family relationships is the skill of repair as opposed to perfection. You don't have to treat each other perfectly. You need to love each other. Do you have to be good at repairing relationships if they're strained and become that person who's increasingly safe to be around and
• 23:10
  The feeling that, oh, this, like we've been through hard things, like, like, and we know how to get through hard things. Who else would you want on your team, right? To go through a really challenging thing like a birth. Awesome. I don't know, Kelsey, if you're a good spot to chime in before we close up, see if there's any last things you wanted to say about, about the topic, about either being about somebody who's thinking about.
• 23:33
  like have their mom maybe come and be a part of this or somebody who wants to get to a place where this might be a possible role they could participate in in the future. Yeah, I would say that the vulnerability you feel during birth is definitely to the degree that, I don't know that I would push to have your mom there if she isn't that safe person for you already. But making that a goal in raising your daughter, I think is super worthwhile. So it's kind of that like,
• 24:02
  just that long-term mindset that, you know, you might take 20 plus years before you see if that paid off and if she's going to want you there for one reason or another. But I think it's like, it's a helpful lens to view
• 24:20
  your relationship with her in, I think, the person she's going to want there in her most vulnerable time? Or is this going to make me like a threat to some, like either not make her relaxed? Like some moms don't feel like a threat. They're just a stressful presence. And that's not something that you want to take into the birth with you for physical reasons as well as emotional reasons. Yeah.
• 24:47
  So I think even just being able to like have fun together and have those conversations with one another. And especially in like the teen to adult years, that transition being more of like a friend transition, I feel like has been helpful to where like.
• 25:05
  mom maybe is supposed to be parenting me less and less, but that doesn't mean that we're interacting less or that, oh, now that we can't, now that we're not really interacting in the capacity we were, we don't really know how to behave around each other. It's like, well, now we find fun things that we can do together or productive things we can do together and kind of change the nature, mature the nature of the relationship to the point where,
• 25:33
  Like, you're still my mom in terms of like that comfort comforter and the like, you know, someone that you might go to for advice and things like that. But you're also like a companion as well where you wouldn't be that way to like your eight year old daughter.
• 25:54
  You know, like you're supposed to be more of like the authority and maybe you still do fun things together, but that's a companion. It's not like your primary nature of your relationship. So I feel like that that's been helpful, too, in the past, I don't know, six plus years is us like moving more into that capacity to where we want to share meaningful experiences like that with each other as well.
• 26:22
  Need a blueprint to revise your family to be a multi-generational team on mission? The book Family Revision by Jeremy Pryor is the book that summarizes all the big picture ideas you hear on this podcast. Available on Amazon or familyteams.com.
• 26:38
  Well, it's so good. And this is kind of what we want to encourage you guys as you think about building a family team. Like Kelsey's saying, this isn't something that ends at 18. It's just getting started. But it looks very different when your kids are adults. And part of it is just wanting to prepare you guys for inhabiting and practicing the kinds of roles that will make this part of your life so meaningful for everyone, for your adult children, for your grandchildren,
• 27:06
  Um, and we are very much like in the early stages of trying to learn this, but I think because this is an ancient way, it's not easy to figure this out. So we want to be kind of in real time, you know, being processing, like what we're learning with a lot of y'all who are kind of on this journey, um, maybe a few steps, um, behind us, um, in terms of your age or the age of your kids, but, but we want to like try to figure out, okay, here's some things we're learning that here's a direction that seems really healthy.
• 27:33
  And I just want to say, too, I didn't even have this as a goal. I did not even think it never even entered my realm of thinking about, oh, I hope to be in my daughter's births with them. I hoped my daughters had children and then I got to help with the babies and things like that. But being asked to be part of the birth was actually quite a surprise to me. And like Kelsey said, I got emotional. Yeah.
• 28:00
  I was just like, what? Like, no way. This is... You know, when I processed it more and more later, I just remember thinking, like, this isn't even... This is beyond what I even hoped... I wasn't even hoping for that. I just... It hadn't even entered my mind. So just to be able to pass that on to you guys, it is a possibility, and that it is something you could kind of, like, have in your hopes and dreams. Right. And I think...
• 28:28
  I think in ancient cultures, the women of the family would rally around the vulnerable, you know, member of the family who's in the middle of delivery. And that would have been normal in certain times where I think the family roles were a lot different.
• 28:45
  clearer and now that we primarily function as individuals this is a lot more confusing and yeah and so we're trying to like yeah I think what we're doing is sometimes like you're saying April we don't even know what is normal in those roles until we lean into them and then suddenly notice that something ancient is getting revived so
• 29:09
  And this is one of those things that I'm like, oh, this actually probably it should be normal, but it's incredibly unusual. Let's understand why it's so unusual. And if there is a pathway possibly to this ancient way of being a family, being a multigenerational family. And I think it's really cool. Yeah, just getting to explore this. And I love how you said, look, I think it's important to always.
• 29:33
  not hold expectations over your adult kids, like let them decide, you know, what is healthy. And Kelsey, you said it really well. Like, you know, it's just like, this isn't, this shouldn't, you need to be kind of only inviting somebody in who is like, this is, you're in a position where you should not be operating based on guilt, you know, or obligation. And the most vulnerable moments when you're in this kind of pain and trying to endure this kind of thing, the question really needs to be,
• 30:03
  very much on the mother. Like, what do you need? What would help you the most right now? But to be the kind of person who, you know, would be really helpful. Like that's, that's pretty epic. So awesome. Well, so good to get to process this. I thought that was a really interesting, um, kind of discovery that we're just kind of working through as a family and, um, and love to, uh, and so April, you took maybe just, just to button up, you took a doula course, um,
• 30:29
  Maybe just explain why you did that and what that was about. Would you recommend that for somebody who's maybe thinking about moving this direction?
• 30:40
  Yeah, well, I had been a part of three births, a friend, a sister, and then Kelsey's first, which was fascinating to me. All of them were very interesting and fascinating. And I had my own five birth experiences.
• 31:00
  And so they were all of them very different and for their own uniquenesses of different situations and different things that were happening in the births themselves. And so I was pretty curious about the world, the birth world anyway. And then when Kelsey asked me a second time to be at her second birth, I thought, okay, I'd like to get a little more educated on this. I know it's a rabbit hole. You can go way down and there's lots of like,
• 31:30
  different philosophies there's a lot of different you know tones I guess you could say that people take and I just wanted to kind of get an understanding of what was out there in terms of belief systems or like you know how people do it I'm more on like the natural side of things and so I wanted to experience or like learn more about that so that is why I took a course and
• 31:56
  And in the course, they say that when I'm done with the course, I can say I'm a doula. But of course, I feel like I need to get a little more experience before I actually say that. And I'm not doing it to like do it, get a job or earn money doing it. But I think it's incredibly it was incredibly informative.
• 32:15
  Very interesting to hear my teacher's stories that she had been through, you know, just hear the different stories. I'm in a, my own little world is filled with women having babies all the time. And so just knowing little ways I can support them or help them.
• 32:31
  Um, you know, when they're before they have the baby and then like right after like postpartum, what kinds of things are helpful. Um, so that those, I feel like that's part of me. Again, this journey is just taking me on this. Like I, it's not something I've always wanted to do or I've always thought would be really cool or anything like that. It's like, this is the next thing. And Kelsey just asked me to be at the second birth.
• 32:58
  I would like to learn more about this. So I feel better prepared and more competent. And so I do have my little bag of tricks, little things. And for me, it was also like, so I can help Matthew with his, you know, his part and like maybe have ideas for him if things are stalling out or whatever. And so Kelsey did have a good amount of days of work.
• 33:22
  what we're calling pre-labor, because we weren't sure quite exactly what to call it. And I feel like taking the doula course really helped equip me to help her in those days, because it wasn't like, Matt, come home for work now.
• 33:37
  Like this, it's happening. It was like very subtle things that were happening. And so we were just, I felt like that was a privilege. Myself, my other daughters, Kelsey's sisters, we were all kind of like working together to like watch Elijah and help Kelsey and get half her drink this and try this and try that position. And okay, now let's do this and that. And so that was a very...
• 34:01
  It was a time full of question marks, but it was also a time where we were able to kind of work together and Kelsey was very determined and her energy ebbed and flowed and we were trying to be there to support her during that time. Yeah.
• 34:19
  Yeah. Yeah. Like one of the things that may be a little unusual for people is that, um, you know, we and our family, just theologically, we, we just believe kids, um, we want to have kids early and often. And most people are either negative about having kids, like only have them when they're,
• 34:37
  you know, all the stars align and you can afford everything and everything's perfect. Or, uh, they're very neutral about having kids like, well, it just depends on so many circumstances. And so many times it's negative, many times positive. And we just have an unambiguous positive, um, um,
• 34:53
  like value for children. And when you have that disposition and believe that that comes from the scriptures, the command to be fruitful, multiply the, the declaration that children are a gift from the Lord, then, and that this is just a natural part of the way that God designed his good design for the world and for family. Then of course, yeah, to your point, April, a lot of this is we need to, we need to work as a family multigenerationally to make this accessible, to make this accessible.
• 35:22
  possible to make this sustainable for the next generation otherwise of course they should you know throttle down the number of kids at the frequency um you know that could really be damaging to a young family um so but this is not the way that we were designed to to live we were designed to live with the support of an extended family and what does that look like well it looks like a lot of things during that kind of pre-labor um in labor post-labor you know world so uh anything
• 35:52
  No, I think you're spot on. It was so helpful to have support in those days where it's not intense enough that my husband should stay home from work. But I also don't really want to be alone and I'm uncomfortable taking care of my toddler all day. And so it was so much help to have all of that support those days leading up to it. And I'm so thankful. Awesome.
• 36:14
  Sweet. Well, I'm really proud of both of you guys. This was such a cool experience that you were able to do together. And yeah, I'm excited to see this become possibly more normal for families that really lean into these roles in a really healthy way. So, all right. So thanks for joining me and thank you all for listening today. Thank you for listening to the Family