Latest / Ghost Cult Magazine Podcast / PODCAST: Episode 906 - “Fear the Boogie” - Courtney Gains on His Latest Release

Transcript

PODCAST: Episode 906 - “Fear the Boogie” - Courtney Gains on His Latest Release · Ghost Cult Magazine Podcast

0:00
But I was really set, I was going to be doing acting as a
0:02
profession. So I, I approached that very
0:04
differently in terms of like, I learned all the method
0:07
techniques and everything because I knew this was my
0:08
profession as a musician. I took lessons for a couple
0:11
years, learned chords basically, and then I started writing.
0:15
And that's what I really, really like.
0:17
I like writing music. That's fun for me.
0:20
And it was also a form of a personal expression for me.
0:22
It was a form of way to get things out that I couldn't
0:24
articulate. Whatever pain I might be going
0:26
through this and that I couldn't quite put into words yet, I
0:29
could put it through a song and it would help me get through
0:31
things. So it's, it's always been a
0:33
creative outlet for me. But really since 2020, I was
0:37
like, man, the thing I haven't done, it's left on finish is to
0:39
get my music out. And I'm going to start doing
0:41
that on a real level. And I've just been working at
0:44
it, pushing that stone uphill ever since.
0:53
Hey, this is Don from Ghost Cult and I am interviewing Courtney
0:57
Gaines today. And Courtney is an incredible
1:00
singer, cripple songwriter and a really great guitar player.
1:04
He plays some really great roots oriented music.
1:07
And he might also be that Courtney Gaines that you're
1:10
thinking about and we'll find out.
1:12
So let's welcome Courtney to the to the podcast for Ghost Cult.
1:17
So Courtney, welcome. Thank you, my friend, thank you.
1:21
So, you know, one of the things we were talking about in some
1:24
before the before we got started was the whole idea of the
1:28
Children of the Corn. Yeah.
1:30
Do you get sick of hearing people bring that up?
1:32
Like, are you ever like, I'm not just Children of the Corn, I'm
1:35
Courtney Gaines. It was certainly when I was, you
1:38
know, midway into my career where I was like, you know, I
1:41
got to do something better than that, to have somebody else talk
1:43
about that. But now I'm just happy to be
1:45
known for something, right? And basically I'm known for my
1:48
80s run. And a big part of that 80s run
1:51
of cinema was Children, the corn, so.
1:53
That's really interesting because one of the things I've
1:55
always been curious about, especially going into this, is
1:58
that the transition from actor to songwriter and musician, it
2:04
used to be a very weird thing to think about, especially in the
2:08
80s. Because I remember when I was
2:10
younger and I saw, oh, what was his name?
2:14
Bruce Willis put out a record. And I was like, that's stupid.
2:18
Oh, that's weird. Like, you're the dude on
2:20
Moonlighting, Why are you putting out a Blues record?
2:22
But like, now, you know, we've had all kinds of actors and what
2:27
not putting out albums. My favorite, as we talked about
2:30
earlier, was Billy Bob Thornton. Yeah, you know, and so it's
2:34
definitely there. So what what is that?
2:37
What brought you into that crossover?
2:39
It's, it's, it's been there on my end for a long time.
2:42
It's just people just didn't know about it.
2:43
And, and I've been putting a much bigger push on it the last
2:46
few years. So I started taking acting
2:49
lessons when I was 13 in a professional workshop.
2:51
I also started taking guitar lessons when I was 13.
2:54
So it's it's always been there. But I was really set.
2:56
I was going to be doing acting as a profession.
2:58
So I approached that very differently in terms of like I
3:01
learned all the method techniques and everything.
3:04
I knew this, my profession as a musician.
3:06
I took lessons for a couple years, learned chords basically,
3:09
and then I started writing. And that's what I really, really
3:12
like. I like writing music that's fun
3:15
for me. And it was also a form of a
3:17
personal expression for me. It was a form of way to get
3:19
things out that I couldn't articulate whatever pain I might
3:22
be going through this and that I couldn't quite put into words
3:24
yet, I could put it through a song and it would help me get
3:27
through things. So it's, it's always been a
3:29
creative outlet for me. But really, since 2020, I was
3:32
like, man, the thing I haven't done, it's left unfinished, is
3:34
to get my music music out. And I'm going to start doing
3:37
that on a real level. And I've just been working at
3:40
it, pushing that stone uphill ever since.
3:42
And you know, now we're to this single that just came up.
3:44
We're also going to be putting out a full LP next year.
3:47
So it's, you know, I'm doing it and I'm in Savannah where
3:49
there's a great music scene. I got a band playing regularly,
3:52
cutting my teeth, working on my craft.
3:54
It's been a lot of fun. That's amazing because you've
3:56
been very steadily busy still within the acting world.
4:00
And what? Yeah, like as recent as last
4:02
year. Oh, for sure.
4:04
Like being that you kind of stepped away from it for a
4:07
little bit, now it came back into it.
4:08
Do you favor one or the other, or do you kind of look at each
4:11
other as like a break from the other?
4:13
If I had, if I had this, I would say I favor the music right now
4:16
just because I'm getting to express myself in that medium
4:19
more than I, I have. So it's like it's newer to me in
4:23
that way. You could say, even though I've,
4:24
I've had bands in LA since, since the 80s, you know, since
4:27
the yeah, since the late 80s. But I'm doing on a bigger level
4:31
right now. So it, it, it's more
4:33
artistically satisfying, I'd say.
4:35
But if a great acting role comes along, that would be every bit
4:38
as is satisfying, you know, but a great one, you know, a real, a
4:41
real wonderful film with a really wonderful role, which is
4:44
would certainly be every bit is is satisfying.
4:47
You know. Those those can be far and few
4:49
between though, you know. Like I wonder how many times you
4:52
were like on a set going God I wish I was at home playing my
4:54
guitar. Well, what's been happening
4:57
lately is that there's with the technology, they haven't, you
5:02
could usually shoot a movie on a phone now, right?
5:04
So, so, so it's not like when I started, it was 35mm film and
5:10
that was precious and expensive. And when you were on a set,
5:13
everyone was focused and quiet because if you fucked up a take
5:17
that was like, you know, a lot of money, you know, So it was a
5:21
different, different, there was a different reverence to to
5:24
making the films. Now video, you can burn video
5:26
all day long. Doesn't cost anything.
5:28
And there's a lot more like there's like there's low budget,
5:33
there's even like micro low budget movies out there now.
5:36
And, and a lot of what I call vanity projects where somebody
5:40
can raise a little bit of money and put themselves in it that
5:43
they're not necessarily qualified to be in it, but hire
5:45
a bunch of people around them to make them look good.
5:48
There's a lot of that out there now too.
5:50
So that stuff to me is not is artistically satisfying because
5:54
I've come from the old school. I've been doing this 40 years.
5:56
I know how it's supposed to be. You know, this is how a set
5:59
supposed to be run, You know, shut the hell up while I'm
6:01
trying to work. You know, I'm like the crotchety
6:04
old guy on set, you know? You know you're like.
6:06
You're like, what do you mean green screen?
6:08
You know, Take Me Out to the woods for real.
6:10
I've done, you know, I've done some big time green screen
6:12
stuff. I don't mind that.
6:13
I don't mind technical stuff. I mind that people don't know
6:16
how to conduct themselves on a set properly or you don't have a
6:19
dressing room or things like that because those things were
6:23
invented so that an actor could concentrate on doing his job
6:26
well. But if people don't really
6:27
understand that because they don't know, they don't come from
6:30
they don't they don't necessarily go to LA 1st and
6:32
work in the business for and then start doing films.
6:35
They're just so excited to be working on a movie.
6:37
They're all just, you know, happy and having a gay old time.
6:40
I'm just going to do my job and years, right.
6:43
So it's just it's like that. You know, and that's such a cool
6:46
thought because I've always wondered that, especially about
6:49
musicians turned, you know, yeah, are, you know, actors
6:52
turned musicians and even vice versa.
6:54
But the older I've gotten, you know, so I'm 52 now, but the
6:58
older I get still, I start to kind of understand more and more
7:02
why people do things like that. Because, you know, to go from
7:06
playing music constantly and then burning out on that or to
7:10
go into acting and then burning out on that.
7:13
I mean, like what, what, what a treat it is for you to be able
7:16
to have these individual, these separate worlds where you're
7:19
like, I can live and thrive here and live and thrive here.
7:22
A. Different creative outlet, you
7:23
know, I mean, if you look at, you know, lots of, I mean, you
7:26
know, lots and lots of artists end up doing have some other
7:30
thing they do artistically on the side that that they enjoy,
7:33
you know, you know, sometimes you get caught up in the
7:35
business and the money. Sometimes you just need to do
7:37
something artistic that isn't about that.
7:39
I mean, some of the most satisfying artistic acting jobs
7:42
I've ever done have been theater for free in LA, you know, 99-C
7:46
theater that only a handful of people saw.
7:48
But artistically, it was a very, very, you know, a very
7:51
satisfying experience for me. So you have to find those things
7:54
to keep yourself fresh artistically, I think.
7:56
I think it's important for an artist to find ways to keep
7:58
because the machine, you know, the managers, the agents, the
8:02
movie, they don't care about any of your satisfaction.
8:04
They care. I can put this person in a
8:06
product of mine that will then go on to make money.
8:09
And that's cool. Hey, I've been able to make a
8:10
living as an actor. That's great.
8:12
But but at the same time, they don't care give a rat's ass
8:15
about my artistic satisfaction and nor should they.
8:17
It's, it's, it's a, you know, it's a, it's a corporation, you
8:21
know, So I, it's up to me to keep my artistic juices flowing.
8:26
That's my job to take care of myself.
8:28
And that's why I think people burn out.
8:29
I really do. Oh yeah.
8:31
I mean, and what I, I love that you address that because that's
8:35
not something I think we always think about as artists or
8:38
musicians, that it is our responsibility still to keep
8:42
ourselves happy because at the end of the day, we don't have to
8:46
do anything. If you're signed to a label or
8:49
something is dependent upon you to do a certain thing, like
8:52
that's a whole other story. But even then, like there's
8:55
still ways to not allow yourself to get into this rut.
8:59
And like, what do you think it is about certain people, like
9:02
whether act as a musician or that doesn't, that they don't do
9:06
that, that they find themselves in a hole and burned out?
9:09
Yeah, I don't know, you know it. It certainly is an individual
9:13
thing. I mean, they're even, even at
9:14
conventions, there are people that are happy to be there and
9:17
there are people that are not happy to be there.
9:19
And I don't have a lot of sympathy for the people that
9:21
aren't happy to be there because like #1 you could just stop
9:23
coming #2 it's the easiest damn job description in the world.
9:28
You sit at a table where people are happy to meet you and pay
9:31
you money to sign something they brought or you have and take a
9:34
picture with them. If you put that in a newspaper,
9:37
anybody and their mother would take that job gladly.
9:40
But this guy's sitting there. This guy's sitting there
9:43
bitching him on it. It's like, it's like it ain't,
9:46
you know? You don't like this going to
9:48
leave bricks for a living, Dude, go put a roofs on.
9:50
That's a fucking job. This is a piece of cake, you
9:54
know, But it's all people's mentality.
9:56
It's all how you see the glass half empty or half full.
9:58
You just put out a new song with the Fear the Boogie Man.
10:04
We talked, we joked about that earlier about you I got.
10:08
Boogie man, but the boogie. Man, it's like you're learning
10:12
to talk and punctuation. Usually I sound like I'm talking
10:15
in cursive, but it's that's a whole other thing.
10:19
But like I said, I had gone back and listened to the Journeyman,
10:23
which I absolutely loved. But then hearing fear the fear
10:28
the Boogie, it was a heavier take on what you were doing.
10:31
I thought it was more of a departure until I really started
10:34
to listen to it and I listened to it 3 or 4 times and I'm
10:37
going, this isn't, this is kind of like the equivalent of like
10:40
to me, Dylan went electric. You know, it's like it's a Sonic
10:45
change, but it's still the same. It's just in different rapping.
10:49
That's interesting. Yeah, I hadn't thought about
10:51
that because the number one guy Journeyman was came out in the
10:54
90s. It got on a compilation record
10:57
and ended up doing pretty good in college radio, which was a
10:59
really pleasant surprise. But some great people worked on
11:01
that. Matt saw and produced it for me,
11:03
the drummer from Guns and Roses, and then he got slashed to play
11:06
lead on it, which was just a mind blowing experience.
11:08
To be in a room with that guy playing that was just like,
11:11
like, wow, he looks like he's doing nothing, but he's doing
11:14
everything. You know what I'm saying?
11:16
It's like it's it's incredible. So I wrote that song as well.
11:21
This song I Co wrote with my my writing partner Wall, who was in
11:25
my band in Savannah for about a year.
11:27
Then we started recording together and then he bought a,
11:30
he bought a, a semi string guitar with a drop down D and
11:32
started sending me metal songs. He's like, dude, listen to this.
11:35
Can you record some of that and then Add all of those songs?
11:38
That was the one that I gravitated toward.
11:40
I thought, oh, I can maybe do something with this.
11:42
And then it was just what was it?
11:43
My, I really believe of writing comes from like a subconscious
11:45
space. You know, what's on your, what's
11:46
on your mind, the back burner. And so two things kind of had
11:50
the boogeyman idea of flow. One was that I was doing the
11:52
movie The barn 3 and there's three characters in it and the
11:56
main bag 3 bad guys have been in the all three movies.
11:58
The main bad guy is a is a old miner with a pickaxe.
12:02
They called the boogeyman. So that was there.
12:04
And then last year for trolling of the coroner, it was the 40th
12:08
anniversary. So did a did a ton of
12:09
conventions and it all culminated at the assiduous Film
12:13
Festival in Spain, which is siges is about 30 minutes from
12:16
Barcelona. It was it was an honor to get a
12:18
screening there. That's the biggest sci-fi and
12:20
horror Film Festival in Europe. And so introduced the film and I
12:24
went outside because I've seen shown on the corner so many
12:26
times. You know, I never want to see it
12:27
again if I don't have to be honest.
12:29
But so I was sitting outside waiting for the film and, and
12:31
the guy that was hosting it came out and he said, hey, man, I got
12:33
to tell you something. He goes when I was a kid, he
12:37
goes when I was a kid, you were you were the most scary person.
12:41
Like we passed the VHS around all his 10 year old kids and you
12:45
were known as the boogeyman of Barcelona.
12:48
I thought that's a really catchy thing, the boogeyman of virus.
12:51
And I was like, he's, I was like, wow, really?
12:53
He's like, yeah, we all were afraid of you.
12:55
You were the 1. And so those two things were
12:58
stuck in my mind. So then when I started writing
13:00
the song, just feared the Boogie came out.
13:02
It was just, it had been, it had been percolating back there from
13:05
different ideas and I wanted to write a song for the movie if I
13:07
could. I'm trying to do that now.
13:08
So if I'm doing this, especially as low budget things like, hey
13:10
man, can I present a song to you guys, The pop in the movie.
13:13
And so Justin liking it to put in the movie.
13:16
And I also got him to give us some, some footage from the
13:20
previous two films. We're releasing a music video on
13:22
Thursday, November 20th. We'll have a music video out on
13:26
Feed the Boogie. Nice.
13:29
So I love that you went back to like the guy was like here, put
13:33
some metal he. Happened to be writing metal
13:38
songs already, so it's perfect for a horror movie that like is
13:40
heavy laden with metal music. It was just like, oh, we got
13:43
something here and said we can get placed in the movie.
13:45
But the fact that you're actually making music, recording
13:48
music, performing music with no big ulterior motive of saying no
13:54
grandeur, no, nothing, like you're doing it from the heart.
13:57
You're doing it because you love it.
13:58
Yeah. Did.
13:59
Did you notice yourself that when you if or if, even if you
14:03
had that conversation with the self, when the minute you said
14:06
I'm doing this because I love it and for nothing else, that it
14:09
suddenly became easier? It's it's, it's an interesting
14:13
battle. I mean, you go through as an
14:14
actor too, like I can't help but try to succeed at this music
14:17
thing because that's what you're supposed to do, right?
14:20
And another reason you're The funny thing about it is you go
14:23
through all this bullshit and jump through all these hoops
14:26
just so people can hear your damn music.
14:28
Like you just want people, you just, you just want to share
14:29
your music with the world. It's it sounds cliche, but
14:31
that's all you're trying to ultimately do, right.
14:35
But to do that on any kind of large level, even enough to just
14:38
do like small tours when you're touring like 300 seat theaters
14:42
or whatever is an enormous amount of work.
14:45
You know, it really is. And, and and they want to know
14:48
what's your social numbers? What's this, what's that?
14:51
You know, it's a pain in the ass is what it is.
14:53
All is. But if you don't provide them
14:56
the things that because they want, if it's a booking agent
14:58
or, or, or a manager, they want to see they can make a dime on
15:01
you. That's all.
15:02
That's what they're about. Whether you know, some of the
15:05
acting agents are acting managers, they look at you and
15:07
go, this is talent. Can I take this talent and
15:11
monetize it? That's the game they play.
15:14
And all you want to do is work on cool projects.
15:17
So it's, it's been the same, it's the same grind ultimately
15:20
that I dealt with in my acting career.
15:22
It's just a little, I find the music business a little more
15:24
mysterious. It's not as easy to just Google
15:26
give me the, you know, give me the 100 booking agents in in
15:30
music industry. You can't you can find the top
15:32
ones, but you can't find the ones that would maybe book you
15:35
work with me and in the movie business you can type.
15:37
You'll get every casting. Every agent in Hollywood is on
15:41
there like that. So it's a very it's a little
15:44
more cloaked the music business I find.
15:47
But so I am in that grind right now.
15:49
I'm I do the music because I love it, but I am in the grind
15:52
of trying to get the music out and learn that that what the
15:55
hustle is. And it's a crazy hustle, man.
15:57
Like, if you want to get a song on Billboard, you better come up
16:00
with cash and there's no guarantee it's going to even hit
16:03
the Billboard chart. But just to get to pay to play
16:06
the game is insane. And that's what the record
16:09
labels do. If you get on a label, they got
16:11
the money. They pay the radio stations.
16:14
They say they don't do pale anywhere, but they do.
16:15
And it's a significant amount of money just to get these dudes to
16:19
consider spinning your shit. It's a crazy game, man.
16:23
It's not like the old days, to be honest, where like, you know,
16:25
if you were a band, someone came and discovered you in a club.
16:28
They said, hey, you know, I mean, obviously the motive was
16:31
still the same because like, hey, I can make some money off
16:34
of you, but I can also give you a career.
16:36
And I feel like in some ways the end of.
16:39
The career is. Yeah, right.
16:40
I mean, like, in some ways the industry, even though it's
16:42
always been kind of a shitty place to be, dog eat dog kind of
16:46
thing, there was people that actually worked in those
16:48
positions who actually did have a little bit of care about, OK,
16:52
you know what? Development and all that was
16:54
real, absolutely, just like it was back in in the back in the
16:58
in film, back in the studio days when you were on payroll there.
17:01
It was like they didn't like, you know, serious artist
17:03
development. Yeah, those days are on.
17:05
Both ends are like gone, you know, and.
17:08
It's interesting you were talking about the, the whole
17:10
concept of, of trying to get your music out because you know,
17:13
I've been doing this God since I was like a teenager and been
17:16
doing the folk thing since 95. And that was the first time I
17:21
really gung ho tries to go in and get my music heard and
17:26
whatnot. And I was, it was a rude
17:28
awakening for me, especially over the last decade where you
17:32
want to send your music to somebody to listen to and the
17:35
first thing they do is they reply back and they go, what are
17:37
yours? What are your numbers?
17:39
What's your socials? Yeah, like.
17:40
Like what is what is your socials like what, what, how
17:43
many, what is your website traffic?
17:45
And I'm going, I'm a fucking folk singer, man.
17:48
Like I should like on paper, I shouldn't even own a computer,
17:53
you know? I mean, you know what I mean?
17:58
It's like, it's, it's like, it's like, I'm not Dream Theater,
18:01
dude. I'm like, you know, but that's
18:05
but, you know, and, and even now it's like I, I see young people
18:09
in the music industry kind of like what you're talking about.
18:12
Is that like why is it more prevalent in the music industry
18:15
than in the? Well now Spotify and all that,
18:17
man, that's a whole another beast.
18:19
You can't make any money on that shit.
18:21
I got, I got AI got a payout for $25 from them and I was so
18:25
excited, but then I was like, wait, where did this come from?
18:27
It was an album that's been on there for like 7 years.
18:32
I was just like, click 25 bucks. I was like, I'm taking myself to
18:36
the Chinese buffet. Yeah, like, but like I did.
18:41
Digital thing, that's a whole another beast we could talk
18:43
about, you know, But that's for movies and for and for and for
18:47
music. The digital's the death.
18:48
Digital's death. Well, that's what I was going to
18:50
ask you because like coming from your perspective, because I've
18:53
never really talked to anyone who's in the in the movie
18:56
industry, is that what kind of parallels are there to the
18:59
frustration and the complication of getting your music out now
19:03
versus getting a role in a film or like I mean, I'm assuming.
19:08
It's about the distribution we're talking about now, right?
19:11
Distribution. So like, you know, the, the, you
19:13
know, there's two sides to every coin, right?
19:14
So on the one side, more artists than ever can can be seen or
19:18
hers musically when we went with the things like like like
19:22
Spotify and streaming. But at the same token, you know,
19:25
nobody's making any money on on selling music anymore because
19:28
there's no physical copies to sell.
19:30
At the best, people are selling their money, making their money
19:32
on merch or people coming to their shows, right?
19:34
So, so that golden goose of the CD is toast, right?
19:39
That was the golden goose, you know, so the same, so I knew
19:42
that eventually the same thing was going to happen to movies is
19:44
it was just going to take longer.
19:46
And it did. I mean, basically back in the
19:48
day it was selling, it was the VHS and then selling the DVD.
19:52
Now that goose has been cooked, right?
19:53
So now it's all streaming devices how it's mainly hurt the
19:57
actor is and that was one of the big part of the strike and
20:01
things were about this last time around was in the in in right
20:05
when I started my career in the 80s is when the actors fought to
20:08
get residual income and that I didn't understand that I was
20:12
young and I was I was like, oh, I get I get I get when they
20:15
screen the things I get some money.
20:16
Great. Well, that if I didn't have that
20:18
extra revenue coming in from from that stuff, I would not
20:23
have made a sustainer career. There have been many, many
20:24
times. A a residual check came in from
20:27
Sweetum, Alabama or Back to the Future, something that was to
20:30
pay well, that paid my rent. You know, when things were slow
20:34
getting an acting gig. But now that this next
20:36
generation, they're coming up against it again.
20:38
Because with the streaming, the the payouts are much less, just
20:43
like the payouts are much less on a Spotify.
20:47
An example I can give to quantify it would be another one
20:51
of the residual checks that I would get was that was pretty
20:53
good was the Tom Hanks movie of In the Burbs, which a lot of
20:56
their fans love. It's.
20:57
One of my favorite movies. I would say has which has this
20:59
huge cult following, yeah. So people, people, you know, so
21:04
that's always done well on on in residual income because because
21:08
Universal owns NBC, so they rent it on NBC.
21:11
Are they rent it on their other affiliates, right?
21:13
And that's how they all pay themselves basically saying then
21:16
like, I can't buy me love plays on ABC because that's comes from
21:19
Disney, right? That's how that whole game is
21:21
played, right? They just keep paying themselves
21:23
and but so they did, they're doing a remake with Keke Palmer,
21:28
a loose remake of the burbs with Keke Palmer as a television
21:31
series. And so they decided to take the
21:34
the the stream. They decided to move the birds
21:37
to streaming to help pump the show right.
21:39
That's going to be coming out. Those residuals are about a 10th
21:43
of what I was making when they were just showing it on
21:45
television. So it just proves the theory,
21:48
you know, that I that that streaming is not good for actors
21:52
paycheck actors payrolls, because I'm telling you,
21:54
residuals is what keeps a character actor alive.
21:57
You take that out of it. And you also take now that
21:59
they're shooting not as much in LA, now people are shooting all
22:02
over and they're hiring a lot more local hires.
22:04
Like now that I live in Savannah, I'm in the whole SE
22:07
market and that's a big market. It's not just Atlanta.
22:09
It's 400 miles in any direction from Atlanta.
22:12
So I've worked in Kentucky, North Carolina, South Carolina,
22:15
the pay is not as good, but but there's work.
22:17
And so they're hiring local hires for the smaller roles now.
22:21
So even as a character actor in LA now, your options have
22:23
dwindled down even that much more.
22:25
I think. I think you're not going to have
22:26
very many talented character actors in LA anymore.
22:30
It's either you hit big or you don't hit at all, you know?
22:34
My wife and I, we lived in Atlanta for God probably about
22:37
12 years or so, and before we moved to South Carolina a couple
22:41
years ago. And I remember Atlanta just
22:44
being like, all of a sudden it was Hollywood.
22:46
And I was like, I'm like, what happened?
22:49
Like where are all these? You know, like it was the, it
22:52
was the, you know, they give the, they give the paybacks.
22:54
You know, if you shoot in the state of Georgia, for every
22:56
dollar you get X amount back and that's that.
22:59
It started in Vancouver years ago.
23:01
Vancouver, Canada was the first one started.
23:03
And that was when everyone was shooting everything in
23:05
Vancouver. You go, you'd go to do a guest
23:07
star on a Vancouver show, 21 Jump St. and everybody in the
23:09
hotel, it was more actors in the hotel than there was, you see in
23:12
LA, it was crazy. So they did it first and then
23:15
they tried it in Louisiana, tried it in Texas and then and
23:19
then and then Georgia. Really, they took it on and
23:22
yeah, it would. And but now, right now it's
23:24
after the strike. It's struggling too, because
23:25
Netflix basically moved all their stuff overseas.
23:29
They're producing all these movies overseas right now.
23:30
So like in the States right now, the the making of the movie
23:34
industry is like in real trouble right now.
23:36
I'm, you know, I'm kind of lucky.
23:38
I'm, you know, I'm at a point in my life where I don't, you know,
23:39
I get a, you know, I get a pension and all this shit.
23:42
I don't have to really worry about it anymore, man.
23:45
But I think it's a tough time in the movie industry for, for up
23:48
and comers. I think it's a real tough time.
23:50
So I had a good, I had an interesting question to ask you.
23:53
Well, First off, before I get to that one, I wanted to ask you,
23:55
it's like, what was it that what was your calling to be, to go to
24:00
no, to be a musician? Because see, I threw a curveball
24:03
at you. Like, what was it that called
24:07
you to say like, you know what? Like that's something I'd like
24:10
to do. Oh, it's very simple, man.
24:12
When there was this thing called Z Channel, which was the first
24:15
cable box that was ever installed in like the like late
24:19
70s and two things played on there constantly.
24:23
Rocky Horror Picture Show, like 10 years old.
24:25
I could not comprehend what the hell was going on with that.
24:28
But I but I watched it because it was so bizarre and
24:30
interesting. But the other one was Woodstock.
24:32
And I watched that a lot of times.
24:34
And when Ritchie Havens comes out and starts playing freedom,
24:37
if that doesn't get to you on some level in your gut and
24:40
heart, you ain't got one. I was like, I don't know what
24:42
this is, but I like it, you know, and, and that was really
24:47
the beginning. Now, I mean, you know, music,
24:49
you know, I was young man in the 70s, music was everywhere, you
24:51
know, and you know, my brother was much older than me.
24:54
He was turning me on to the Doors, the Black Sabbath and all
24:56
that kind of stuff. And the idea of, you know,
24:59
playing music sounded interesting to me and that sort
25:02
of guys and, and I lived in a, you know, Chicano neighborhoods
25:05
in Los Angeles where oldies were were prevalent, you know, like,
25:09
and and and I think that that's where some of my strength as a
25:11
strong writer comes from because those songs are well written.
25:14
You know, those songs, you know, they know how to write craft
25:18
tunes back then, in my opinion. And, you know, Aaron Neville's
25:21
Tell It Like It Is is one of my favorite all time songs.
25:24
His voice gives me chills. It literally puts the hair in
25:27
the back of my neck, stands up when Aaron Neville sings Tell it
25:30
like it is. I love that song.
25:32
That's one of my favorites of all time.
25:33
So so I was growing up, so I had a, you know, amalgamation of
25:36
different materials coming at me at the same time.
25:38
And back then, music radio was everything like it was, it's not
25:41
like it is now, you know, like it was everywhere.
25:44
You know, you were always hearing music, you know, jukebox
25:46
or in your car or it was a big, big part of your source of
25:50
entertainment. And and then my dad listened a
25:52
lot of jazz. So I was getting influenced by
25:54
that. And my mom was listening a lot
25:55
of show tunes and stuff like that.
25:57
And all of us, I was, I was getting it from everywhere, you
26:00
know, getting influences, you know.
26:01
It's so funny, I have to credit you for bringing up tell it like
26:05
it is because I read this in another interview that you did.
26:09
And growing up in New Orleans, I did.
26:11
I was, I was born and raised in New Orleans.
26:13
And like, I was so pleasantly surprised to hear someone name
26:17
drop the Nevels or the Nevel brothers because oh man.
26:20
The whole nevels, I mean, they're like they're like
26:21
legends. It's again and and God, are you
26:24
talking about in New Orleans, man?
26:25
They're they're it. They're the kings of New
26:27
Orleans, is what they used to call.
26:30
There's a, there's a guy here in Savannah who named Big E he's
26:35
like 64. And he was, he played at Tulane
26:38
University, football, basketball.
26:40
But he also at 19 years old was playing bass for the Neville
26:43
Brothers. This guy is a beast dude.
26:46
He is the baddest bass player in town.
26:48
And he's a, you know, he's very supportive of what I do, which
26:52
means the world to me because this guy, he's playing chess,
26:54
man. I'm playing checkers on bass.
26:56
Yeah. I'm playing root nose.
26:57
This guy is like a master Craftsman.
26:59
But yeah, he. Yeah.
27:01
So now, now the brothers man, you know.
27:03
That is amazing. Yeah.
27:04
You want to talk about chess and checkers?
27:05
Dude, I'm playing like that little peg game.
27:07
That's Cracker Barrel. You know what I mean?
27:09
Like this? 3/4 of the truth.
27:11
There's nothing wrong with that either man.
27:13
It really isn't If if it's if it's authentic, it's authentic.
27:16
It doesn't. Some people are very some of the
27:18
most proficient players the world can't write a song for
27:21
shit. Matter of fact, most league
27:22
players and bands don't write the music.
27:24
It's usually the rhythm, dude, you know?
27:26
There was, there was a songwriter.
27:28
There was a songwriter in Atlanta that I was friends with.
27:30
I remember him telling me one time, he said.
27:33
He said, you know, I took music lessons for yeah, over 10 years
27:37
because I did this, that the other, he says.
27:39
But I what I came to learn was that if you can't say it with
27:43
only five chords, then you're probably overspeaking.
27:46
And I was like, that makes a lot of sense.
27:49
So it's kind of nice. Title.
27:51
You can't write a song on a piano or a acoustic guitar if
27:55
it's got no, If you can't do that, it's got no bones.
27:57
It has. It has to be able to be that
27:59
stripped down. It has to be good already.
28:01
And everything else is just a build.
28:02
And that's what I've I've missed most of my stuff on acoustic
28:05
guitar. Now they play bass.
28:06
Starting to write some stuff on bass as well which is fun.
28:09
It's amazing how playing the bass though, I feel like for me
28:12
at least, it opened things up a little more because you weren't
28:15
so concentrating on the truck like the the the, the form of
28:20
chords and the other like you can just get like a root, you
28:23
know, note for something. And then you were like, OK, I
28:25
can translate that later, but I feel a little more free to kind
28:28
of. It's also just really owed my
28:30
ears to what the bottom end is happening in music.
28:32
A lot of times I was hearing more the guitar and the vocal
28:34
and not really hearing the bottom end.
28:36
So now it's been a real, you know, real education on the
28:39
bottom end and the drums and playing with the drums and that
28:41
whole process. So it's been good for me.
28:43
It's just help open my ears all the more.
28:45
You're always looking for a new breakthrough, a new way to
28:47
expand. That's that's been the, that's
28:49
been the one for the last year or two.
28:51
So who's who's been on your playlists lately?
28:54
I don't really do the playlist thing.
28:56
Glad you're and I'm like. You see how I had to do that?
28:58
I had to go. I had to go modern.
29:00
So let me kick then. Let me kick back.
29:02
Then I still. Listen to records and fucking
29:04
tapes and stuff. Who's on the mixtapes?
29:06
Well, yeah, they had mixtapes. Oh my God, that's really old
29:09
school. I didn't do that either.
29:10
I I actually like listening to radio.
29:12
I like not knowing what I'm going to hear next, which is
29:15
passive People like people, most people like to control stuff,
29:18
but I'm not know who I'm listening to a lot of Blues
29:20
like, like I'm, I'm, you know, this is Howlin' Wolf and Buddy
29:22
Guy and stuff like that. That's I'm, I'm, I've been
29:26
definitely gravitating more, you know, past, you know, not past
29:28
rock, but more into the Blues, which when I play, I say 25% of
29:33
what I'm doing with my, my band is Blues.
29:36
So, so you know that talk about 3 chords.
29:39
I mean the 135, you know, basically, you know, just what
29:41
key are we in is But Blues, there's so many ways you can you
29:45
can riff on that very simple concept, so many ways you can
29:48
riff on it. You can also really fuck it up
29:50
too. If you're, if you're thinking
29:51
too hard, you've come at it like with too much of A technical
29:54
ability, Like people don't realize that you know, you can
29:58
know all you want, all you can about an instrument, but when
30:02
you go to play something like Blues or folk or whatever, it's
30:05
like you need to dial that down. And that is a harder challenge
30:09
for a lot of people. Yeah, I, I again, I just the way
30:12
I select, like I said, I found I have Courtney Gaines group,
30:14
which, you know, you can find on Facebook if you want to see what
30:16
gigs we're doing or whatever. But basically, I mean, there's a
30:18
lot really, really technically proficient in towns and
30:21
musicians in this town. I was surprised like how good
30:24
there are. And, and mainly the idea is to
30:26
play like note for notice, right?
30:28
That's kind of like what the the benchmark mark is.
30:30
I can't hang with those guys and I will.
30:32
So I don't even try. What I try to do is give an
30:34
interpretation of a song in a way that maybe somebody hasn't
30:37
even thought about doing it. So the first song we I usually
30:40
open up with is Desperado. And I don't do it as a ballad.
30:43
I do it as a mid tempo song. And so when we start, nobody
30:46
knows what it is. And then I start singing and
30:48
people are like, what? Like what is this?
30:49
Like, let's not let you know how it should be done at all.
30:53
But it sets the bar immediately that like, yeah, I'm going to be
30:56
doing covers, but they're not necessarily how you've heard
30:59
them before or, you know, like that.
31:01
And, and and people end up really liking it.
31:02
You people just come and go. Wow, that was a really cool take
31:05
on that song. You know, I people go like, I'm
31:07
not even the eagle. I don't like the eagles, but I
31:08
like the way you did it. That that to me is cool.
31:11
That's that's the art. That's the artist part of stuff.
31:13
And that artist part doesn't necessarily mean that you're a
31:15
shred master. It means you.
31:17
It's the ability to see, see it, interpret it in your own way and
31:21
make it yours. That's what that's what I think.
31:24
Anyway, I always wanted to form a metal Grateful Dead cover
31:27
band. Yes, and call it call it
31:30
Grateful Shred. Brilliant.
31:33
You, you know how much money That would be the gig, dude, You
31:36
that would be the gig. You could make bucks on that
31:39
one. Great.
31:40
Shred I love. It but maybe we should edit this
31:44
part out then you and I like take.
31:46
This to the mouth. I know there's the problem.
31:48
But that's the beauty behind it. You don't have to.
31:50
It's. Just the name.
31:51
It's grateful shred. You do I do.
31:55
I just started playing Athea in my band, which is like is the
31:59
the simplest Grateful Dead song I could find that I could play
32:02
bass and sing to, you know? But it's fun.
32:05
I like it. All the works on my guitar
32:07
player. He has to do all the nice, you
32:08
know, all the nice playing. I'm just holding it down, you
32:11
know? But I like that song.
32:12
Let's go. That's another one of those
32:14
songs that when you listen to it, there's like some some
32:16
simplicity to it, but then you go to play it and you realize,
32:19
like, what the fuck am I doing, man?
32:21
There's a lot going on here. I'm just trying to do that
32:24
bounce. You keep that.
32:29
You keep that. Dead bounce, you know.
32:33
So one of my last questions I want to ask you too was
32:37
obviously Jerry Allen White has gone and played Bruce
32:40
Springsteen and the and the the new biopic.
32:43
Yeah. Delivery from nowhere.
32:45
Yeah. That is one of those things that
32:47
I was super interested in because I love seeing actors go
32:50
into roles like that, but actually go in like head first,
32:54
playing the songs, singing what not of.
32:56
Course, if the only way to do it would be to do that, who would
32:59
you? Love to see yourself play and
33:01
I'm not. Getting too old, man.
33:02
But I think if there was somebody I would have played
33:03
that I could have nailed completely vocally, particularly
33:07
IS, and I got to work with him once as an actor on Nash
33:09
Bridges, is Willie Nelson. Oh wow.
33:12
I actually play always. I play always on my mind in my
33:15
band now, and I tell the will I tell the Willie Nelson?
33:17
I don't think you can see it very well back there, but that
33:21
that acoustic guitar Willie Nelson signed for me.
33:24
That dude, that's a flex that I will allow.
33:28
I'm not. I'm not a big autograph guy
33:31
myself, but you know, I had a chance to meet Willie Nelson and
33:34
I brought a good string guitar look all beat up just like his.
33:37
And he was, he was, he was a very nice guy.
33:39
Played it, signed it. I was like, I like, dude, can we
33:42
get this done? I was like, I could go
33:43
concentrate of working, you know, because this is like, you
33:46
know, he's super cool. So, so.
33:49
But yeah, I think I get him. You're always on my mind.
33:53
I mean, I could do it, you know? It's not too late.
33:56
It is not too late. Dude, it would have to be like
33:59
Willie Nelson has to pass or they decide they're going to
34:01
make one about him. Would have to be like the old
34:02
Willie Nelson about the old Willie Nelson.
34:05
You know, it's not, not like when he's in his, you know, like
34:08
he's 30 or even 40. It's like.
34:11
Actually, I'm kind of, I'm kind of looking at you right now as
34:13
like, like maybe like late 80s Willie Nelson, Farm Aid Willie
34:17
Nelson. Yeah, that'd.
34:18
Be with the, with the. That'd be awesome, man.
34:20
With the bandana and the whole trick would obviously to like if
34:24
you do it real, right, which is like, yeah, I take the pride of
34:26
my acting to to take those things that are now kind of his
34:29
cliches as they were and still be able to bring it in so real
34:32
that that, you know, you get past those benchmark cliches of
34:36
the ponytails and the bandanas and all of that.
34:39
He was a he was a prime example to me of one of those kind of
34:42
artists that you looked at and then when you heard it, there
34:45
was such a like divide of like, oh, you sound like that.
34:48
That's incredible. I know back in, you know, of
34:51
course, back in the day before you had access to knowing what
34:54
people sounded like right away. Oh, sure.
34:56
You didn't even think about that.
34:57
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously the big thing
34:59
about Willie's just an outstanding songwriter.
35:01
I mean, that's how he broke in the business.
35:02
That's how all the good guys in Nashville breaking the business,
35:04
they break in his songwriters. And yeah, you know, but yeah, I
35:07
mean, talk about a guy. I mean, he'd be, he'd breaking
35:09
all the rules. But he's country, but he's got
35:10
long hair and out about smoking weed.
35:13
And, you know, it's like he was doing it.
35:14
He did it a whole different way. You know he was a Nashville
35:19
rebel man. And he's also, like, on that
35:21
other side of the fence that most people would assume that
35:24
he's on, you know? Right.
35:26
It's just so interesting. Exactly right.
35:28
Very unique talent. So one more thing, tell me about
35:31
the album. Is it coming out this year or I
35:34
mean it'll? Be early next year right and so
35:38
it's it's it's like like like you're kind of trying to pay out
35:42
like what do I do exactly It's a little all over the place.
35:44
I mean there's there's some bangers on there's like four or
35:46
five, you know 3-4 bangers on it.
35:47
There's also some very Americana stuff on it, you know, so I
35:53
again, I write from mood. I don't write from, you know,
35:56
trying to think, Oh, I'm going to do nothing but this in this
35:59
record, whatever. And then also wall work with me
36:01
on it, as we were talking about before and we, we dug up some of
36:04
his songs and did them as well. Some he he wrote in Peru that
36:08
would be in Spanish. I rewrote the lyrics and
36:10
melodies. And so it's, it's, it's so it's
36:13
got a little bit of everything in it, honestly, but I'm, I'm
36:15
pretty happy with it. And he's such a good engineer
36:18
and producer. Feel like he brought out the
36:20
best in me and pushed me vocally and things.
36:22
And that's awesome. That's what you want.
36:24
You want somebody you trust, you feel comfortable enough to take
36:26
some risks. And so, you know, so there's
36:28
some, there's some pop rock, some pop rock on there too, a
36:31
little bit, you know, it's all rock, but it's, there's some of
36:34
it that's pretty sellable in my mind.
36:36
So we'll see where that takes us.
36:37
I don't know. Do you feel like that without
36:39
the constraints of being in a constraints of being on a label
36:42
or something that that is a little easier to be able to do?
36:46
Right, I'm not there's nobody money talks and bullshit walks,
36:49
right? If you sign a deal with
36:50
somebody, now they own you and now they're going to tell you
36:52
that that one we likely do do 12 more just like that, you know,
36:56
that's, you know, I mean, I understand like he was an actor,
36:58
like I'm doing a romantic comedy or something or whatever the
37:01
case may be. You got to play into the genre,
37:03
right? So they will do, they will
37:05
pigeonhole you like that in the record business too.
37:07
But because, yeah, I'm not under anybody, anybody's label.
37:10
All I'm doing now is shopping this thing and and, you know,
37:12
and seeing if I can get picked up by a label.
37:14
I've got some interest right now.
37:15
I want to make sure it's the right deal.
37:16
If not, we'll do it. We'll do it independently.
37:18
But, but yeah, I don't, I don't have those constraints and I
37:21
don't want those constraints, you know, because this isn't how
37:24
I've made my living. This is how I express myself.
37:27
So, you know, thank God nobody's offered me $1,000,000 to sell,
37:30
you know, to completely sell the hell out, because I probably
37:32
would for 1,000,000 bucks, I'd be like Malachi metal band.
37:35
Let's do it. Metal for Malachi.
37:38
I love it. Seriously.
37:40
Now, if I wanted to make it, that would have been the way.
37:43
That would have been the way. Create a metal band dude.
37:46
For $1,000,000. Out there.
37:50
Dude for $1,000,000 I would lose 80 lbs and join a K pop band if
37:54
I had to so. There you go.
37:55
Thank God they haven't put that money in front of me.
37:57
I can just do with that. Well, Courtney was so great
38:00
talking to you and getting to know you man.
38:02
I really appreciate you taking the time and Fear the Boogie Man
38:06
is out on Spotify and streaming services as we speak.
38:10
And do you have a full website also?
38:12
No, you can just find me on Courtney Gaines.
38:15
You find me on Courtney Gaines IG and Courtney Gaines Group on
38:18
IG and then also Courtney Gaines Facebook, Courtney Gaines Group.
38:21
So those those are the ways to find me.
38:23
And you're also on band camp as well.
38:25
Yeah, with the with the the the Safe Haven EP is on band camp.
38:29
You can 5 songs. You can hear it three times for
38:31
free, and if you like it, you can get a Digi download or you
38:33
can get a Digi download on the CD.
38:35
That'd be great. Or you could pirate it.
38:37
No, I'm just kidding. Dude, people don't make any real
38:41
money on it anyway. If you know, they just get it
38:42
out there. People don't even do that
38:44
anymore. Like, like, like what do you
38:46
like? What do you mean?
38:47
You said download music for free.
38:50
That was a deal. Like we do that all the time
38:52
now. Right, it's not pirating
38:56
anymore. Well dude, thanks again for
38:58
taking the time to talk. It's been a pleasure.
39:00
Cool man, good to talk to you.