Latest / Nightmare Success In and Out / Real Estate Guru gets 10yr sentence- Mike Morawski

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Real Estate Guru gets 10yr sentence- Mike Morawski · Nightmare Success In and Out

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What happens when he works here? Becomes your reality.
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Hi. I'm Brian Cassidy.
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Welcome to the nightmare. Success in and out podcast,
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where we explore a, how to overcome your fears.
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And Nightmares is set yourself free.
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We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in
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Leavenworth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
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These stories can be inspiring. Sometimes sad, there's some
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humor but hopefully you can come away with a nugget of something
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that will help you knock down some of the prisons.
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You It up in your own mind. Welcome back.
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Nine more success in and out listeners.
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I am, I'm really excited to jump into this interview today.
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I have a great guest, Mike moravsky, he's a man of real
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estate and when I say that the gonna give a little bit of a
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background here, he's got 30 plus years in a real estate
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investment business that's over 285 million dollars in real
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estate transactions. He's Entrepreneur.
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He's an author. He's a real estate trainer.
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He's a public speaker. He's a personal coach, his teeth
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investment of Oz. Officer of to multifamily hedge
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funds. He's the author of the book Exit
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Plan. He's the founder, CEO of my core
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intentions, and he's the host of Insider Secrets podcast and he's
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personal trainer coach. So it's, he's got it all and he
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was sentenced to 10 years in prison, and it's a great.
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Come back story because, you know, we on this show, it's all
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about what happens when your worst fear becomes your reality.
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How do you adapt to survive overcome set yourself?
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Free will, Mike, is doing all that and I can't wait to get
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into it. But first, I want to get into a
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Nightmare success, since you, okay, folks, let's jump into
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this mic. Welcome to the show.
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We're in. Thanks for having me.
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I've been looking forward to this.
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I have to the whole root canal, it's going to the dentist
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comment. I thought God, I would have
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rather had a root canal that go to prison for 10 years.
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That's true, a root canal and I've had a root canal that that
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was not a good thing. So it's a hell of a balance and
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I want to give a shout out to Danny Navarro, Danny was on our
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show, I think couple of podcasts to go for those listening at
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home is great story but he connected me to Mike, which I
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always appreciate because some of my very best episodes that I
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have a referrals coming from other nightmare success.
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Guess so Mike you're up in Chicago, right?
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I am Am I am in Chicago? You know, we're getting into
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that spring. Hopefully, here and somebody
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said, this morning, we're supposed to have a snow storm
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tomorrow. So, you know, it's that time of
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year, right? It doesn't feel like spring when
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it starts snowing again, though. It's like, no.
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I actually, I went up to see my middle daughter Carly couple
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weeks ago, and it was weird because I, she kept saying it
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snowed like four or five inches. And I went back past the
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airport. And you know there's no snow and
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then by the time we got to where she was she's up north and there
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was like five inches of snow. It was like a direct line that
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went through there and there was real snow there.
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There's where we're definitely for us.
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Oh okay. Got if you get Brent, look me
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up. Let's have coffee.
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Yeah, absolutely. We're sure I, we had up there
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because we have to see my daughter and Sam her her husband
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and their love. And life up there.
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They're out of the big city downtown.
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So Yeah so did you grow up my in Chicago?
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In the suburbs? Okay so I just I live in the
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city now you know when I came home from prison and re did my
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life figured out what I was or try to figure out what I was
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going to do. I just said, hey I've always
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wanted to live in the city, I'm gonna move downtown, so we'll
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take me back a little bit to your early life of little Mike
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growing up as a kid. Ed family, siblings.
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What was going on in your world growing up?
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Yes, I'm the oldest of three. Okay, you know, I'm the hero.
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Yeah, the Pioneer. So to say family background, you
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know, came from a, you know, pretty dysfunctional household
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but I think more importantly is I didn't grow up in a household
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of entrepreneurs. Yeah.
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And I don't know where I got that blood.
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I do remember sitting on the side of it.
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Swimming pool one day, we were on family vacation and I
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remember, I had to be eight years old, Brent, and I asked my
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dad I said, hey, what are all the rooms around this building?
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And he said, oh, people come here, they stay here, and they
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pay the owner of money to stay here.
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And I don't know that instant. I was like, damn, I want to be
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the owner of people paying me money.
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And I think that's where I got that real estate bug was was
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back then, because I'd always I'm curious about buildings and
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real estate. So in your blue.
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Yeah, well, II know that you kind of were entrepreneur
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thinking early on, I mean, you had a paper route and you, you
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were kind of figuring things out as a kid.
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Not every kid has a paper route. Yeah.
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And today, you can't even get one, but I think I had to
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actually go, but the whole Lemonade Stand thing and a
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couple of routes and always being an entrepreneur.
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Trying to figure things out. You know, when I was a young
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kid, my dad used to work for the Chicago, a couple of the Chicago
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newspapers. Yeah.
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The Chicago Tribune actually. And you would take me to work
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with them in the summer and he put me in a factory and I would
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sell papers in the morning to the guys and men and women
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coming in going to work in the factory.
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Right idea. Yeah so but he taught me here.
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Taught me some basic skills like how to count change without a
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calculator or a cash register write and how to make change for
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odd numbers and things like that and and taught me directions and
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how to get around. And so it was always interesting
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but well, you know, those were you close Mike with your dad?
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I mean, was it? Yeah, I was yeah.
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He actually he actually, you know, God can I say this?
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I'm on the air, but I I don't know, I've never said this on a
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podcast, he actually got murdered.
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We had nuts 1983, so we were close and it was my parents had
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split up by. Then I was out of high school
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and I had, you know, traumatic, I mean, for someone to die,
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obviously that's traumatic. But when somebody dies, the this
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violent, I just can't even know how you wrap your mind around
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that. Yeah.
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And you know, Brent it was violent.
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It was a Syndicate. Hit my.
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Dad happened to be with somebody who these guys were after.
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And, you know, the police kind of said that, because the one
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guy got shot 10 times, my dad got shot once and but you know,
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that was a long time ago. I was 23.
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Yeah, 24. I'm a little bit older than
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that. Now, You know, we've both got
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great hair, so you never know how somebody is.
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And so, it's funny because when I was in prison, there was.
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So in 2005, they rounded up all these guys from The Syndicate.
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They had this big thing here in the, in Chicago, called Family,
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secret trial, it was they all got convicted of murder, there
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were 23 different. Murders.
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My dad was one of those and they, you know, say what they
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put the rest of the Syndicate in jail but you know, that never
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happened. But I had what it was.
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I just can't imagine. Mike did You know, going through
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that because I guess backing up a little bit here.
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When when you were growing up and he talking about your dad
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and you know how you kind of helped you out.
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Did what did you like as a kid? Were you was it kind of a normal
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childhood? You play sports, go to school,
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play in the neighborhood. Was that kind of your your
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world. Yeah, I play baseball.
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My mom always told me you should be a professional baseball
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player they did. Is much money back then is
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nothing now they did make but I you know, baseball was my
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passion. I played baseball, I played
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football, I wrestled in high school, okay?
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And so I was pretty athletic, you know, and did that lead?
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You through your high school years being involved in that?
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Did, did you go to college and and like, how did that all
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progress for you? So I was going to go to Arizona
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State actually Talks about a scholarship and I got hurt
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senior year 4th day of summer, practice for football.
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I stepped in a rabbit hole and blew my knee out and it was, you
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know, it was over for me. So with that Drugs and alcohol.
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Yeah, yeah real. So one up yeah, yeah.
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Went down in that rabbit hole and drugs and alcohol.
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So I mean, how long did you and that world of really probably
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was a depression. That was your, your goal.
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You were shooting for. How long did you stay in that
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world of being down? Yeah, so great question.
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And so I thought that, you know, I thought life was going to be
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to be a cocaine dealer, you know, and one dope and get
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involved in some God, I've never talked about this stuff on the
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podcast before. So the tension this is going to
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be, this will be a good one. Yeah.
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And that didn't work out either because, you know, my addiction
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took over, you know, Rodney Dangerfield, had an old line.
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He said man, I'd quit snorting coke.
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If I didn't like the smell. Well, so much.
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So, you know, the day came where I needed.
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So I was living in an old farmhouse and I lived in the
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basement and I thought I was so cool.
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Bret. I was an entrepreneur, I had two
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mattresses on the floor, you know, had my desk.
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I had to milk crates with a board on it.
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That's my desk and I was in the construction business just
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starting out. Yeah.
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And, and I'm young, right? So and upstairs was another
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couple living. And then above the garage, there
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was another apartment and it was a Friday night.
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And I'm, you know, I'm deep in my disease at that time, but
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it's a Friday night and I'm hanging out with this girl.
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And we, and the couple upstairs and the couple who lives, Above
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the garage and we are partying were partying hard.
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And so it starts Friday night and by Sunday, late night,
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midnight, 1:00 Johnny, who was in the apartment above the
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garage says, hey, let's play Russian Roulette And pull the
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pull the gun out, puts it on the table.
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And is says, who's going first? And and I look at this girl, and
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we say, hey, we're leaving we, then the other guy, Chris, Tim,
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and Chris, they lead. And I don't get to the bottom of
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the stairs and I hear bang and the girl, his girlfriend Kathy
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scream and run back upstairs and he It blown half his head off.
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That was enough to get me into treatment.
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The next day was a wake-up call. Yeah, so I went to treatment
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about about four months later, my dad got murdered and, you
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know, just kind of from there. You know, tried to figure out
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how to live life, you know, get rid of it will make you want to
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fall back into the drugs and alcohol.
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Are you had you studied yourself enough that even though this
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traumatic event happened that you were going to you were going
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to step through it. Yeah.
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So it's funny right? Because I was in this six-week
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treatment program or I was in a four-week treatment program and
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they threw me out after six weeks.
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Told me to come back when I wanted to get serious.
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And I, well, I'm always, I've always had this attitude of I'll
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show you, you know, and and I walked out of there saying I'll
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show you. So I started going a and I got
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really serious and I got sober and, you know, I was sober for
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26 years. So, and and I always say, you
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know, I always say that I was sober most of the times, but I
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had all those times to where I was at, you know Drive, I never
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went back. Use drugs or drink again over
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the period of time till my business started to fail.
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Yeah, you know and at the time when I got sober, I was in the
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construction business so I was building a construction company.
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Yeah, I want to know about all that because it's interesting
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how your life from what I can tell the background story is you
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you, that's how you really entered the world of real estate
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was is you were you got into Construction?
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Ian. Yeah, so you know my dad always
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said, he said, look if you ever go into business for yourself
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food shelter clothing. Yeah.
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And I've always been in shelter, Right?
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Started with corruption. So, a funny story.
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I had a swimming pool business and I'm in the Midwest and it's
15:45
not a good business in the wintertime, not in Chicago, I
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will figure something else out to do.
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So I started doing kitchen and bath Remodeling, and that left
15:54
the room additions. And before I knew it, that's all
15:56
I was doing was Construction. But like, any entrepreneur
16:00
Brent, I was, you know, doing the marketing, the sales, the
16:04
contract writing your, during the hiring and firing, where all
16:08
the tenants in the same field banging Nails.
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Yeah, and woke up one morning and I was married at the time,
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my first wife and woke up in the morning, looked at my wife and I
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said, I'm done. I can't do this anymore,
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burnt-out just burnt to a crisp and how many years have been.
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So you got burned, 15. All right, that's a good amount
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of time. Yeah, yeah, 15 years.
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So I had somebody knocking on my door, they wanted to buy the
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company and I sold the company. Wow.
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So I a little bit, little bit of startup Capital, Runway capital,
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and I went and bought a to Flat house happened.
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And today it's sexy. But back that nobody who is
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doing it, right? So labor.
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Them in one of these units, remodeling the other one and you
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know I sold the company with the intention of taking a year off
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but as an entrepreneur we never take time off, right?
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So so I get into this other project but I had heard Jim
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Rohn, say years ago that success leaves Clues.
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Always understood that, right? So if you model somebody who's
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successful, you can shorten your learning curve, you can do do
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things and grow at a It is steadier pace and even if you
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follow people who've made mistakes, you're going to learn
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a lot. Yeah, now I'm a big believer
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that you know saying that Mike is such a big tip because if you
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find somebody that's getting it, right?
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And they're doing something that you can Implement in your
17:44
business, it's like getting the answers to the test before the
17:47
test and it also gives you a lot more confidence to implement
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that because you already know somebody else is making it work.
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So many people miss that and and I think, you know, it's I think
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maybe it's just not having your eyes open and thinking, you got
18:02
to figure it out and reinvent everything yourself because
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there's so many Clues out there and I like what you said.
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You can also learn from the mistakes that happen because
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then you find out, okay, that's the when I get to that, I'm not
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going to do that and that's those building building
18:18
business. I, you know, I built a division
18:21
in our company that was totally model modeled off a
18:24
pharmaceutical company and we were in the funeral business and
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it Perfectly but it's a for entrepreneurs you you don't just
18:35
get a three-ring binder to be okay.
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Here's the entrepreneur through minor you have to look create
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Implement take action fall back, mistakes happen.
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Get a little wiser and you move forward.
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Yeah, 100% 100%. So yeah, so you've got the to
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you. You're now you're in business,
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you've got the two, Lat, you're Remodeling and that's right on.
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Go So and this is my first experience in real estate at
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this time. So I meet a real estate agent
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really successful, this is back when houses were fifty thousand
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dollars average and he was selling 100 a year.
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So I went to him and I said, hey, I think I'd like to go in
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this business. He said, I think you'd be great
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at it. So he encouraged me.
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And then I went to him and I said, hey, could I share with
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you? You know, and work, you know,
19:30
see how your team operates he goes, no, he goes, but Going to
19:33
do better than that. I'm going to make you a cassette
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tape. And this is this a long time
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ago, now, right? So here's a 20 year, olds are
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say what are those? Yeah.
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Right much less find something to make 1.
19:46
Right? And and I am not, I follow.
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I listened to that tape over and over and over again.
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I went into business in the early 90s and I sold 78 houses.
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My first nine months in the - well as reflux Rookie of the
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Year, went on to build a team selling 125 homes, a year did
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that consecutively for about 12 years and then 2005 came around.
20:16
And I saw the market starting to ship and I had people working
20:20
for me. And here again, I'm the hero I
20:22
don't want to lay anybody off. I don't want to give anybody bad
20:24
news. I, I think, you know, I always
20:29
wanted to be in the apartment business.
20:30
It was one of those dreams I had I watched a couple of Apartments
20:34
indicators here in the Chicago Market that started from nothing
20:39
and and one in particular today is the largest read in the world
20:44
and they're in 80 countries every asset class and I said man
20:48
anything's possible. Yeah so I understood you could
20:52
raise private Equity, marry it with a great real estate deal
20:55
stay in the middle and as long as everything went, well
20:59
everybody do well. I syndicated my first deal in
21:03
2005 over the next 30 months. I raised 18 million dollars.
21:09
I bought four thousand apartments.
21:10
In five us markets, I built a property management company
21:14
managing 7,500 units and I did that in 30 months, that's
21:19
incredible. 2008 rolled around and it was like hitting a brick
21:24
wall and a freight train. I grew way too fast so I always
21:28
tell people I made five mistakes.
21:30
The first is I grew way too fast.
21:32
Very unstable as a company. Don't ever do what I did you
21:37
know yes the models work the systems work, but take your
21:40
time, be patient. It's a marathon not a Sprint.
21:45
I was overall Security in though, you know.
21:47
Like I think that's one thing that is kind of Lays.
21:51
Behind all that when you're growing something the the fun
21:57
and the feel of growth and seeing people do well that are
22:02
with you and your company. It just it's got a certain
22:05
Rhythm and feel to it and I think that's where you can get
22:08
blindsided and, you know, the little things don't seem that
22:14
big and so they can get bigger as you're moving and I think
22:17
that's what happens a lot of times.
22:20
Yeah. Yeah, I I agree.
22:24
I think that you do, get it. I like that word intoxicated,
22:27
right kind of, you know, you fall in love with it.
22:31
Yeah, so yeah. Oh no, I was just going to say.
22:37
So I grew this company. 2008, rolled around started to unravel
22:43
had no idea where where the market was headed.
22:46
I had probably 12 companies that I should have let go to
22:49
foreclosure and And a handful of investors, get hurt, but here
22:53
again, I'm the hero and I have to try and save everybody so I
23:00
decided I'm going to start moving money from profitable
23:04
companies to non profitable companies, trying to keep
23:08
everything afloat. So none of my investors get
23:10
hurt, my attorney, my accountant both said, it's okay to do that.
23:14
Just leave a paper trail. I'm of the belief that this
23:17
point that this is a short recession, it's going to be And
23:21
the 12-month 17 18 months like a typical recession and we're
23:25
going to tend to 12 percent correction in the market and
23:28
then everything's going to bounce back.
23:29
Right? Well, was I wrong seven or eight
23:32
was the Great Recession, right? 40 percent correction in the
23:36
market. You can't withstand that storm.
23:40
So, you know, moving money was one thing.
23:44
But non-disclosure was another see when you raise private
23:48
Capital, your held at a much higher standard.
23:51
And you need to tell people where their money is and what
23:54
the movement is. We didn't lie on any documents
23:59
about anything, but I didn't tell my investors that I took
24:04
their money or their profits from here and put it here so
24:08
that they wouldn't get hurt. Yeah, so I wound up being
24:12
charged and wire fraud and mail fraud charges for non-disclosure
24:18
issues and you know, Brett. You know why?
24:21
Wire fraud and mail, fraud charges us so Bast, right?
24:23
Anyway, so actually could go to prison for for wiring.
24:27
Their electric bill pay really well and it's very scary when
24:32
you look at mail fraud, wire fraud as because that's what we
24:36
had and you know, 30-year business, they stack those
24:39
charges many times. You want to charge somebody that
24:43
they put something the males May times.
24:45
You want to charge somebody for the wire fraud.
24:47
Did you? How did you how did it?
24:49
Come on, you Mike. Like the mean, obviously, that's
24:53
where you ended up. But how did it, did you feel it
24:57
coming at you? Did you know, you were being
24:58
investigated? Did you were there are
25:01
indications that? Did you get a knock on the door?
25:05
Yeah, so great question, right? I don't know that I'm, I knew I
25:10
didn't never thought I was breaking the law.
25:13
You know, actually our in-house legal counsel said this.
25:16
He said, look, he goes. Let's put, let's shut everything
25:20
down while bankruptcy. If we need to and we can open
25:24
back up in six months, everybody does it.
25:27
That was the exact conversation. And so what we want up doing was
25:34
in November of 2010. We had put all of our assets
25:38
with the receiver. We did kind of a voluntary
25:41
bankruptcy, but we never went bankrupt.
25:44
We just turned all our assets over.
25:46
So all that real estate we gave, you know, and receiver came in,
25:51
to operate it to kind of be that bandwidth between us and the
25:55
investor, right? The noise was so loud.
25:59
I got a phone call one morning from one of our vice presidents
26:03
and and bread. I had 100 people working for As
26:05
you know, I always build the company.
26:06
My goal was to build this monstrosity National company,
26:10
right? And I get a call from one of our
26:13
vice presidents. One morning who says, pay the
26:17
FBI was just at my house asking questions and I was like damn
26:23
you're kidding are you? So I didn't really see it a
26:26
cold. Chill up your spine when that
26:28
when that happens. Yeah, exactly, uh-huh.
26:33
So I had That particular individual was working in an
26:38
off-site Place. Working with another guy who was
26:43
trying to do. What we were trying to do at the
26:47
time was get some Bond monetized.
26:50
It was a couple hundred million dollars in bonds.
26:52
We thought if we could get you know, a portion of that
26:54
monetized that we'd be able to have some social capital sir.
26:59
And so we had paid this guy, some upfront fees like a
27:03
consulting fee coaching V2, you know, to try and do this.
27:08
Well, he wound up getting indicted, not the guy worked for
27:11
me, but, but this other group want up, get excited on
27:14
something. He did five years before that in
27:17
Arizona, that wasn't even on anybody's radar.
27:23
And then, so that happened, then because we were named as a
27:28
victim, in that guy's case, there were a couple of phone
27:32
calls to the FBI, From investors to out of 250 investors saying,
27:41
hey, you know, we were trying to get our Capital out.
27:45
Well, right, you know, real estates in liquid and and
27:49
especially when the market shifts, I mean, there's no
27:52
Capital to get out. So we we we think that it was a
28:01
combination of those couple of things.
28:04
There wasn't a turn, Ernie, who tried to do a class action
28:07
lawsuit? He called, I don't know where he
28:09
got a list of our investors, but he called all of our investors
28:13
and everybody except for two or three investors told him to go
28:17
scratch. We weren't doing anything wrong
28:20
and and even at sentencing, I had 12 investors that were in
28:24
courts and don't put them in prison, he's worth more to us on
28:28
the street than he is put away. Yeah.
28:31
You know, and they just didn't see it that way.
28:34
How long did that? Only that process lasts like the
28:37
time that you find out that the FBI is sniffing around to your
28:42
standing in front of the judge. Yeah, so so 2010 in November, we
28:51
put all of our assets with a receiver but prior to that so
28:57
August of 2010, I was on vacation with my family.
29:03
We're in Southern California. For Nia annual vacation, come
29:07
home from vacation. How many kids you got?
29:10
By the way, I've got to ask you that.
29:12
Yeah, five five kids. Yeah, three.
29:16
Don't talk to me. Yeah.
29:18
Today as a result of all, this is an absolute shame.
29:24
I mean, I would give anything to have those relationships back.
29:27
And and that's the, that's the only regret from this whole
29:31
thing I have is my relationship with my children today.
29:35
There's so much collateral damage that happens with that.
29:38
And you know I've whole family goes through something like this
29:43
when someone is targeted and an investigation happens and it's
29:46
just, it's a horrible thing. I wouldn't wish it on anybody.
29:50
Even if somebody was really mean to me.
29:51
I I really the experience of having to go through a federal
29:55
investigation as night is, is the nightmare of nightmares,
29:59
because you go to bed with it, you wake up with it and you
30:02
know, the whole just keeps getting bigger and deeper and
30:05
And everybody that's around, you feels that.
30:07
And it's a lot. I want to give you.
30:10
Yeah, go ahead. Your let me, let me finish this
30:12
because I think this is really important at this, at this
30:15
point. So in August of 2010, I'm on
30:18
vacation. I come back.
30:20
My ex-partner hands me to business cards.
30:22
He says, you need to find a criminal attorney.
30:24
I go criminal. I had no idea that that we were
30:27
at a point. So I find a criminal attorney
30:31
and he says, I don't think you guys have done anything wrong,
30:33
you'll be okay. Nope.
30:35
November of 2010. We put all our assets with the
30:38
receiver in May of 2011. I get indicted shortly after
30:48
that. I'm in my attorney's office
30:50
reading the 302s, the FBI report and and I am reading these
30:56
reports and I go My ex-partner testified at the grand jury in
31:03
August in 2010. When I was on vacation, To throw
31:09
me under the bus. So my ex-partner our in-house
31:13
legal counsel and our Director of Finance.
31:17
I testified at the grand jury in August crafted this story and
31:22
I'm reading this stuff that I'm going oh my God none of this
31:26
shit ever happened. They're queuing me and there was
31:31
and and I got listen. So you know, I got so mad that
31:37
day and I was so angry and I was in tears.
31:40
In my attorney's office, it was a Friday afternoon and a my
31:44
attorney. He He he said look, he goes,
31:48
you're not leaving because I said, I said, you know, hey if
31:52
I'm if I'm going to prison, I'm going to prison for murder.
31:56
I'm gonna go home and I'm going right to this guy's house.
32:00
Bernie, so that was at 3:00 in the afternoon on a Friday.
32:04
My attorney was expected at home by his wife to go out for a
32:08
dinner function at six, we ever left his office till 8:30,
32:14
because he wanted to make sure that I wasn't going to go.
32:16
Her that bad. Yeah, I was really upset.
32:20
I would have been bad. And yeah, well, I might have
32:22
been home sooner though. It's true.
32:26
It's true. It's an inside joke for that
32:31
might be true. So I want to get into you
32:36
stepping into the unknown world of prison.
32:39
But before we do that, there's a guy that has a company that is
32:44
Crisis management. He's a sponsor that company.
32:46
It's Erin Duncan dotnet full-service Global
32:50
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32:55
company that tries to make and does a really good job of making
32:58
bad news. Go away, they're known as the
32:59
trauma surgeons of brand crisis, has corporate scandals
33:03
high-profile litigation legal, investigations, prosecution's
33:08
and you know it's they do the work that a lot of attorneys
33:14
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33:16
That Discovery and find things to help a crisis out and they
33:22
know what they're looking for their services, include crisis,
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management crisis, communication media relations reputation
33:29
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coaching for a confidential consultation regarding a crisis
33:37
or reputation issue. Email, Aaron W.
33:41
Duncan at gmail.com text or phone 6-3 6-2 3650, 71 for
33:48
anybody who's got a crisis out there.
33:50
I could have used these guys back in the day, so don't be
33:53
afraid to give these guys a call.
33:54
If you feel like you've got some Dark Places and you need help.
33:58
So, yeah, we could have used that guy, right.
34:01
Mike have him come in and save the day and get you out of the
34:05
crisis or at least Wade you through the mess.
34:10
So, let's let's talk about this. So you your attorney now, you
34:14
know that you're cooked. They're taking your people in
34:18
and they've got this narrative. Now that is only going to grow
34:22
bigger because that's the way it is.
34:24
When you see the United States of America versus your name,
34:28
that might be one of the most intimidating pieces of paper.
34:30
You can look at, you know, a hundred percent.
34:33
So you go through, how long does this whole investigation from
34:37
indictment to getting sentenced last?
34:43
So I guess I got indicted in May of two of 2011 and I reported
34:50
self-surrender July 13th of 2013 10 see what's there, a couple of
34:56
years of living, under the umbrella of indictment and it
35:00
was terrible, it was a thoughtful.
35:03
I mean every time the phone rang Squad card go past you with
35:07
their lights on. I mean it was just, it was a, it
35:10
was awful. Yeah.
35:12
And like you said, I wouldn't wish it on anybody.
35:17
Here's what I can tell you, though, I got sentenced to 10
35:20
years. My ex-partner was home in 30
35:22
months. Wow.
35:24
Well, that could be, that's how that works.
35:26
I mean, that's that's how those things work.
35:28
And I want to know how you felt though.
35:31
The day that you were in there. Did you know that you were the
35:36
possibility of getting 10 years that been worked out in the back
35:40
rooms? And what When he lays down 10
35:43
years, what what is Mike think? So it's a big number.
35:50
We had a sentencing hearing blind, plea.
35:55
I plead guilty sentencing hearing lasted, seven and a half
36:01
hours, five and a half hours. I had a forensic accountant on
36:05
the stand. That the government paid for and
36:08
prove that my loss was two million and the government said
36:15
that's nice. Nice.
36:16
But we're going to we're going to charge you with 18 million in
36:19
restitution so but during the sentencing hearing my attorney
36:27
leaned over and he wrote the number 48 on a piece of paper.
36:31
So you're going to get 48 months.
36:34
So, I'm standing and the judge is reading all the, you know,
36:40
stuff. Yeah.
36:42
The mashugana that he reads prior to telling you, what what
36:46
the number is, right? And when he said 120 months,
36:55
This is, this happened in the courtroom, everybody sucked.
36:59
All the air out of the courtroom.
37:01
It was all of a sudden like surreal and I'm in my mind,
37:06
going 120 months, 12 into 121, I thought that's 10 fucking years.
37:13
And can I say that tires can say that we're on explicit.
37:18
So I'm like 10 years. And, and then I In around, in my
37:24
wife to my daughters are in tears in the courtroom.
37:30
And, you know, I went to left court that day after my
37:40
sentencing, they gave me. And then they tried to arrest me
37:43
right away and my attorney, you know, the only good thing my
37:46
attorney did was fight for me to have 90 days to get my life
37:50
together. And You know, so so I didn't
37:55
report that was in April of 2013.
37:59
I wanted up reporting in July, so I had like 74 days.
38:04
I was on an ankle monitor, but I left court that day and my my
38:10
wife and to my daughters and myself in the car, we went to
38:16
one of my daughters houses, who was living with, with her mom.
38:21
And, you know, when I told her Her that I got ten years.
38:26
She ran into her room and I've never talked to her again.
38:31
So, you know, I have a good relationship with my oldest
38:37
daughter and her and my grandkids but you know, the
38:42
aftermath is devastating. Yeah, it devastating and that
38:48
never gets taken into consideration by by the
38:52
government by anybody, you know? They get another notch on their
38:55
belt. Actually, my prosecutors a judge
38:58
today and then good for him, you know, we worked hard to get
39:01
there, right? But listen, here's a, here's
39:08
what I know, five years before I was indicted, the SEC would have
39:14
stopped in stepped in slap. My hand charge me. 250 thousand
39:19
dollar fine. So go back and straighten your
39:22
business out. And don't let it happen again
39:25
and we do have an opportunity to straighten everything out.
39:29
There was no you know but after Bernie Madoff, anybody all the
39:36
white collar stuff got just got crazy walk.
39:41
Walk me into because you're going you're going into prison
39:46
which is something you never planned on, it's the unknown
39:49
world. Where did they send you?
39:55
I went to with the dilute which is, you know, actually Barbara
40:01
Walters did a s expose on yeah years ago and it was Club bed
40:08
that bowling alley in a swimming pool and a three-hole golf
40:11
course. And and they didn't have any of
40:13
that. When a quicker, they got rid of
40:15
it once that happened. I think it's really late, late
40:18
80s when she did that that expectation that that stripped
40:21
everything of everything. Yeah.
40:24
What's what are you thinking, your your voluntarily Surrender
40:28
Your stand at the gate. You know, your got a 10-year
40:31
sentence. What's what is going through
40:33
your mind, Mike that with this walking into this world that you
40:38
never planned on but know that you're going to be here for a
40:40
while. I had no idea.
40:42
So the day I got indicted I left court that day my wife and I
40:46
climb in the car and I said, hey look I said we have two choices.
40:48
I said I can screw around put an envelope together with a couple
40:52
hundred thousand in it and Burn through that a couple years ago,
40:55
get it have to get a job, or I can build a business for you.
40:59
So, I took the next two years and delayed and delayed and
41:02
delayed. While I built a property
41:04
management company that she still owns and operates here in
41:08
Chicago. Today, it kept hurting the kids
41:10
in the house so it's been her livelihood right before I went
41:15
away. So I really didn't think much
41:19
about what it was going to be like what was going to happen.
41:22
But I remember getting so I can the airplane it's a Monday
41:29
morning, I get on the airplane to fly to deliver.
41:35
And we're about 30 minutes into the flight, and the pilot comes
41:39
out and says, flight attendants. Prepare the plane for an
41:42
emergency landing. What?
41:44
And I think to myself, what a way to end this story writing
41:49
down in a ball of flames and we want to get back to O'Hare
41:54
safely but it was they couldn't pressurize the cabin.
41:59
So they had to go back. So I have to call the person and
42:02
you know the guy gets on the phone and he's like, yeah.
42:06
You must have called the airlines to find out that I was
42:08
telling the truth. Her people just try to be here
42:10
before midnight, keep us posted, so I call my wife.
42:15
Come back, pick me up, she picks me up, brings me back to back
42:20
home. I spend the day with her and the
42:22
kids takes me back to the airport that night and And I get
42:27
on the plane, I get to Duluth get in the cab and you know the
42:33
guy drives me from the airport to the prison and I get in and
42:38
you know, they're just Dickie to your when you get.
42:41
Yeah. Oh you're by yourself, huh?
42:44
Didn't have, you know, you know all their snide comments as
42:49
yeah, right. Yeah.
42:50
But they put me in the they put me in this observation rum
42:56
Steel. Lll sell with a steel toilet and
43:00
concrete bed with a with a mattress pad, that was maybe a
43:04
half inch thick. I mean, you don't got pads got
43:06
more cushion than this thing had.
43:09
And I sat there from 1:00 in the morning till seven just
43:16
thinking. Like, I was like, what the fuck
43:20
did I do to my life? What did I do?
43:24
And God, you're making me? Think about stuff that I just
43:28
haven't really thought about. And so, you know bread, I cried
43:37
prisons, not a place. You want to cry.
43:39
No, but I cried every day for 18 months, 18 months.
43:43
I was in prison, three weeks. My wife decided she was going to
43:47
divorce me. It wrecked me.
43:51
I, you know, two kids wouldn't talk to me.
43:54
And I was wondering what the hell happened in my life?
43:58
I walked around every day. Just wondering what was now,
44:02
right? And so I walk in the gym it's
44:05
about. I'm about to six weeks in and
44:07
remember, I've gone from running marathons and being in great
44:10
shape to be in 35 pounds overweight, I hate myself, you
44:13
know. And yeah and I walk in the
44:17
prison in this guy walks over to me and he goes hey, get over it.
44:22
You guys don't let these people beat you.
44:24
Only want to take everything from you you've ever known or
44:27
Ever Wanted. He goes, you can get it all
44:30
back. He goes you're smart guy.
44:32
You built a 100 million dollar company, you built companies
44:34
before that he goes, they can't take what you have inside,
44:38
right? I don't know what it was but I
44:40
think we all have these defining moments in our life and it's
44:43
with and I went, okay, He should come to my class workout start
44:49
losing weight, you'll start feeling better and I did, I
44:52
don't know what it was, but I took him up on it.
44:55
And I was just window shopping that day.
44:57
I wasn't looking at the gym do anything and so I started going
45:01
to this guy's class and they started losing weight.
45:03
I started feeling better. I wound up going to college.
45:06
I got a Bachelor's degree in theology.
45:08
Yeah I started I wrote two books.
45:12
I started teaching and education so I taught real estate
45:15
investing property management and ethics how ironic a federal
45:20
eitc closest a right I was An outreach program.
45:25
I went into the community. I told my story 40 times to
45:28
local business owners small and college students.
45:32
Love. I want to be a professor from
45:34
the University of Minnesota, he and I co-authored a paper
45:38
together that we had published in the Business Journal of
45:40
Ethics that today gets taught at the Collegiate level.
45:44
For forensic, accounting and sales and marketing classes.
45:48
And today I'm home. I'm in the coaching and training
45:51
business. I teach people not to make A
45:54
mistakes I made, yeah, how to exit their real estate deals.
45:59
That's the name of my book, a good plan, except I got approved
46:03
by the SEC, to go back and be an issue, or a Securities and the
46:07
sponsor of multifamily and raise Capital again.
46:11
So working on on, you know, raising Capital putting deals
46:15
together and putting a life back together.
46:18
Let's, let's unpack a little bit of that of what you just said
46:21
because I think it's so interesting.
46:25
That you were at your Rock, Bottom moment, I guess you maybe
46:28
had a rock bottom moment when you just the, your dad got
46:33
murdered. But I think this moment would
46:34
have been much different because you're older and you've got more
46:37
on the table of what is yours but I think it's interesting how
46:43
a rock bottom moment. Could be that.
46:46
You totally gave up got in a fetal position and the world's
46:50
unfair and it'll never be right. And look at me, I'm at now and
46:56
you did exactly the opposite of that.
46:58
Like you went your mindset changed to a new beginning.
47:05
You begin to get confidence again.
47:06
That no I am they didn't take my brain.
47:10
I still in me. And what I think is interesting
47:13
about all that is in prison, you didn't lose yourself.
47:17
You actually started doing things that you had always done.
47:21
And I'm pretty confident that, that probably Lee helped you eat
47:25
up your time because you were using your brain, the way that
47:28
you used your brain on the outside.
47:30
Yeah. And that can be used in so many
47:34
different things. In life is, you don't lose
47:36
yourself in a bad situation. You have to grab and grip
47:39
yourself, even if it's your Rock Bottom moment, you have a
47:42
choice, you know, you take the victim route, or you take the
47:45
Survivor Rod. You, you made a hard turn
47:48
towards Survivor when you started getting close to the
47:52
door knowing that you're getting.
47:54
Nowt. What were you thinking, were you
47:59
thinking? I'm going to step in and create
48:03
what I've been thinking and this is going to be my morale ski
48:07
2.0. Yeah.
48:10
I you know I'm I'm a big fan of Job in the Bible and I was
48:18
coming out thinking, man. I have this white board, I can
48:22
redesign everything and I had this business plan that I had
48:25
built and was going to, you know, just come back and do the
48:28
coaching and training business speak publicly and I do all that
48:34
but I never thought that I was going to raise Capital again or
48:37
that. I would go back into To the real
48:39
estate space in the capacity that I'm in today.
48:42
Yeah, and there's a couple of people in my court that have
48:46
encouraged me and love me through all of this.
48:50
One of my friends says that I'm going to be the Michael Milken
48:53
of multi fans by. He to me that guy is the Epic.
48:59
Yeah, I followed that all the way back in the 80s and how he
49:02
did, what he did. And yeah just never gave up his
49:06
Brilliance and and people had to come to him.
49:09
And they didn't want to, but they needed a because he was
49:11
just that smart. I love that.
49:14
Never give up your brilliant and he didn't, he and he went
49:20
through cancer, and he went through everything and, and, and
49:23
kept being who he was. Yeah.
49:26
Was it hard Mike for you being an ex-felon?
49:31
You know, you tattooed with that.
49:33
You never give it up. Doesn't matter how much time
49:35
they give you, you're going to be an ex-felon when you go out.
49:39
In the world. How did you step through that?
49:41
Because you had to start building again, it's a great
49:43
question. So, for the first six months, I
49:46
wouldn't tell anybody. Yeah, I've bought, here's the
49:50
thing that happened, just like before I went in, after I got
49:53
indicted, I was always looking over my shoulder and wondering
49:56
when it was going to come up or somebody was going to say
49:59
something. So I have a call with a guy from
50:03
New York one morning and he called me.
50:07
And he said, look, I was just on a That I prom California to New
50:12
York last night. I read your book, it's
50:14
brilliant, he goes, but tell me who Frank constant is.
50:20
Oh God, you might want to edit that out.
50:22
Sir he and I said, oh he's my ex-partner, he goes, good
50:29
answer. Because if you would have told
50:30
me any different, I would have known, you were a liar and it
50:36
some, you know, again, one of those defining moment.
50:39
So I talked to some of my clothes confident people around
50:42
me and I started telling my story every chance I could.
50:49
I've been on liberating though, right?
50:51
It is, yeah, because it provides hope and inspiration and I want
50:56
people to know, don't be defined by your past.
50:58
Exactly. Who cares.
51:00
If there was alcoholism drug abuse addiction if there was
51:05
sexual violence, if there was a verbal violence, Physical.
51:10
Who cares? Don't let that crap.
51:13
Hold you back right? Move forward yet.
51:15
Out of get. Get on.
51:18
So I think quite honestly first of all people like a good
51:23
comeback and it also makes you more authentic Mike that you did
51:29
build a big Empire of your own, you lost it and it becomes more
51:34
believable. That yes you've gone through all
51:36
this you know where the land mines are.
51:39
And you're not going to do that again.
51:41
You're going to build something how you want to build it.
51:45
And people once they hear and feel that, I think it draws
51:51
people. And I think that's why you're
51:53
doing the job that you're doing now is because it's if you keep
51:59
that on the outside and then they have to find it out some
52:01
way. It's like a, why is he not
52:03
talking about that? But the fact that you're leading
52:05
with that, I just think it makes you more effective of all the
52:09
Things that you're doing your coaching people, you're walking
52:11
them through real estate, you're putting the syndicates together.
52:13
Your get, how hard was it for you to get relicense back in to
52:18
be able to? I miss my I'm not licensed.
52:23
So I'm coaching a couple of people in my coaching business
52:27
and I had been underwriting deals.
52:30
Okay, on know. Kind of what's my spare time,
52:34
you know, as an entrepreneur Spirit, right?
52:36
Find this deal. And so I went to one of my
52:39
coaching clients and I said, hey, I think you might be ready,
52:41
I said, you know, do you think this is something you want to
52:44
do? So, we started to walk down the
52:46
road and I said, look, you and I are not going to do this on On
52:49
our own went to another coaching client brought her in and the
52:53
three partnered on a deal Securities.
52:56
Attorney out of Boulder. My, you know, my hats off to
53:00
her. I never even thought about this
53:03
and she says, hey, you know, I think I can get you approved by
53:06
the SEC, to go back and do this. And I said, I said have it.
53:11
So I don't hear from her for about three months about the
53:14
topic. One day, she shows up on a call
53:16
and goes, hey, look what I got letter from the SEC says, you
53:19
know, Just go back. All you have to do is just close
53:21
it for six months and then you're done.
53:23
I said, let's go back to him. Tell him that.
53:25
I'll disclose it forever. Yeah.
53:28
And they were even happier with that so I don't, you don't have
53:31
to get a license for what I do the aisle, but I got the
53:36
approval and I never thought Brett.
53:39
I never thought that I would do this again.
53:41
And here's here's what happened. I'm on a meet up one day and
53:44
there's probably 150 people on this Meetup.
53:47
I'm telling my story and some guy, Yeah.
53:49
And I don't even know who it was today, but some guy out of the
53:52
clear blue. Nowhere goes, hey, are you
53:53
raising Capital again? And I know he goes, well, let me
53:57
know when you are because I wouldn't want to invest with
53:59
anybody other than you because you made the mistake.
54:03
Well I think that's just I love that story and I think the thing
54:07
that the other thing I love is that you went ahead and went
54:10
through with it in a guy like you it goes ahead and put
54:14
yourself out there and you get approved.
54:16
You're a Trailblazer for the people who who Don't think it's
54:20
possible and you what you do is you open that crack in the door
54:25
there and start walking through that.
54:27
That helps other people walk through that door because those
54:30
are the things that need to happen.
54:31
There's 25 million ex-felons out there and there's an awful lot
54:35
of them. That think that there's a dead
54:37
end because of what happened to them.
54:39
But these type of stories might give people hope that you can do
54:45
it. And, and that's a huge thing
54:49
because like, Like you said, that's a mindset thing, you
54:51
changed your mindset in prison, and you've continued on as
54:54
you've gotten out. Is it easy?
54:57
Absolutely not. There's nothing easy about
55:00
anything that you've done or anything you've talked about, I
55:03
think maybe probably you being a smart guy that's wired into
55:07
thinking. A certain way, might not be easy
55:11
for somebody else but having the ability to step into stuff that
55:15
scares, you is something that you do.
55:19
Yeah, it's not easy without person.
55:22
Exactly what I. Exactly.
55:24
Oh, you know, it's, it's worth it though.
55:31
So, getting back home and doing, how long has it been since
55:34
you've been out? I got, I came home the week,
55:36
they closed the world down for the pandemic, so March of 2020.
55:41
Yeah, I was at home confinement for 10 months, and then I had
55:45
two years of probation January, I've got off probation and left
55:51
the country, so I love it. So I mean, you feel like you
55:56
feel like now this couple of years going into 2023, do you I
56:01
feel because I think it takes a while to get your feet under you
56:03
to feel like, okay back I'm me. Do you feel pretty good?
56:10
Yeah, I feel a lot better Brent, you know, listen I think rested
56:15
you know, this restitution will haunt us for the rest of our
56:18
lives and, you know, here's what I say, you know, you know, today
56:25
in my life I'm sober again about nine and a half years, but I'm
56:30
really sober today. They have a great relationship
56:32
with Jesus. Yeah, those are cornerstones in
56:35
my life. What is really important?
56:37
And I say, listen, if God wants me to pay all that money back,
56:41
then, he's going to bless me beyond belief, and we are going
56:44
to have a hell of a good time along the way.
56:46
Yep, I love it. That's a great way to think
56:48
about it, to Mike. What do you think?
56:53
Because you've lived, you've looked quite a journey here.
56:57
For the listeners out of there. What do you think your biggest
56:59
takeaway from all this stuff that you've been through?
57:04
Relationships are critical and really, really important.
57:11
You have relationships are really important and that the
57:15
really true people in your life after you go through a time like
57:22
that are still true people. Yes I have a handful of people
57:26
in my life that were there for me, every step of the way.
57:32
And if they weren't they certainly have been since then.
57:39
That's a big one though relationships if you don't have
57:42
them, it's a lonely walk. Yeah and I you know, I've been
57:47
really liking getting to know you and you know what we're
57:52
building here? So I I like you know, it's
57:56
about, you know, what can I do for?
57:59
Somebody else, today my message, help them does my product help
58:03
them. Do I give them something that of
58:08
Yeah and that fuels you up. Yeah.
58:11
Hey, for those out there, if you're into reading books,
58:14
there's one right behind Mike that I can see is the exit plan.
58:18
He says to me that he's also and he should be riding his life
58:21
story that I'm going to be pressuring him on and keep him
58:25
on that because I think people need to read that life story.
58:29
If anybody else wants to read a book, I've got one too.
58:32
It's not a success. Loyalty, betrayal Life Behind
58:35
Bars. Adapting.
58:36
Finally Breaking Free. You know, everybody, the crazy
58:41
thing about Apple, if you go to Apple, hit that follow button up
58:44
there. It's got a little three, three
58:46
lines there, follow it, scroll down, leave a review, Apple
58:51
loves reviews and that helps promote the show.
58:54
I love it when people get on my website and we talked back and
58:58
forth on Brent, caste.com, and always loved in the likes.
59:04
And the comments on Instagram and Facebook, lovely.
59:07
The support, love you guys, listening as I used to say, when
59:12
I was writing back and forth when I was in prison, stay
59:14
strong and I'll do the same Mike.
59:16
Thanks so much for sharing your story today.
59:18
It's a really inspirational story.
59:20
I appreciate it. Yeah, I appreciate it.
59:22
And, you know, Brett if anybody wants a copy of that book, they
59:29
can go to my website at my core intentions.com.
59:34
And if you want to connect with me, I love to A network and I'm
59:38
open to that. So you can email me directly at
59:41
my cat might mirowski.com and or find me on social media.
59:46
Anywhere wherever you find out, I've been reading about him for
59:50
a few days. I appreciate it.
59:53
Mike, dechaine it. All right, diver success in and
59:57
out. Thanks everybody.