Latest / Adventure Sports Podcast / Ep. 1118: Trekking in Peru Revisited - Daisy and Robert Kunstaetter

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Ep. 1118: Trekking in Peru Revisited - Daisy and Robert Kunstaetter · Adventure Sports Podcast

0:09
[SPEAKER_03]: You're listening to the Adventure Sports podcast.
0:11
[SPEAKER_03]: We talk with adventures from around the globe to bring you the inspiration and motivation you need to get started in the outdoors or to keep you moving if you're already there.
0:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Now here's your host, Kurt Lindville.
0:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Hi, friends.
0:23
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to love this revisit episode.
0:25
[SPEAKER_02]: It is episode number 1118.
0:27
[SPEAKER_02]: It's from 7 or 8 years ago now, and this is not your Red Bull crazy athlete episode.
0:37
[SPEAKER_02]: This episode is about deep travel, this is what I would like to call it.
0:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Really getting into the culture and the architecture.
0:46
[SPEAKER_02]: and the geology and the geography of an area and those areas are primarily Peru we talk about but also Ecuador to some degree.
0:55
[SPEAKER_02]: It is a beautiful deep dive and I think you're going to love it.
0:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So thanks for listening today.
1:01
[SPEAKER_02]: As we visit with Daisy and Robert Kunestetter and they share their decades of living and riding travel guides in these amazing areas.
1:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello friends, Kurt here.
1:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks again for listening to the Adventure Sports podcast today.
1:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I have a wonderful interview today with a couple who live in Ecuador, actually in Ville, Cumbaba.
1:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't say that quite right.
1:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to try that again.
1:30
[SPEAKER_02]: In Ville, Cabamba.
1:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Ecuador.
1:33
[SPEAKER_04]: Very good, Kurt.
1:35
[SPEAKER_02]: They've lived there for 14 years and they are writers who write trekking guides for Ecuador and Peru.
1:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I am really excited to visit with them today about life in South America and adventure in South America, Robert and Daisy Kunstetter.
1:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the program.
1:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you, Curtis.
1:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Curtis.
1:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Muchas gracias y buenas tardes a todos.
2:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Afternoon.
2:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Buenos Aires.
2:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess the first question is just to get some context about who you are and what you're doing.
2:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So you live in Ecuador, but you've spent a lot of time in Peru and I saw on your website.
2:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought this was fun.
2:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Daisy, you were born and raised in the
2:28
[SPEAKER_02]: her studies at university and she and Robert met.
2:31
[SPEAKER_02]: They planned a one-year adventure back down to South America that has lasted now, did you say 35 years?
2:40
[SPEAKER_01]: They're about, see us.
2:41
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's been down there.
2:43
[SPEAKER_05]: And counting, Kurt.
2:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we got to hear that story.
2:46
[SPEAKER_02]: So how does a one-year trip turn into a 35-year lifestyle?
2:52
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so much to enjoy down here,
2:56
[SPEAKER_01]: When you're certainly not enough, it's a wonderful continent, South America.
3:01
[SPEAKER_01]: All of the Americas really, and there's just so much to know and so much to enjoy, so we're still doing it.
3:09
[SPEAKER_05]: And it has to gradually occur.
3:11
[SPEAKER_05]: It wasn't a decision that we took from one moment to the next.
3:16
[SPEAKER_05]: One trail led us to another, and here we are.
3:28
[SPEAKER_05]: There have been a great many changes over those years.
3:32
[SPEAKER_05]: These were particularly Peru had a troubled time from 1980 to about the year 2000.
3:41
[SPEAKER_05]: There was a lot of hardship in the country.
3:45
[SPEAKER_05]: There was an insurgent movement that some people might have heard of called Cendero Rominoza that caused a great deal of suffering among the Peruvian people.
3:56
[SPEAKER_05]: And those were the years when we first came to travel there and the contrast between those dark days and what we see now couldn't be any greater.
4:05
[SPEAKER_05]: The travel times are behind the country.
4:12
[SPEAKER_05]: It's open to visitors and tourists and by and large the trekking routes and the back
4:26
[SPEAKER_05]: the safest parts of the country more so than the large cities of the coast, for example.
4:32
[SPEAKER_05]: And so visitors can come and enjoy their Peruvian experience without the sorts of concerns that we had when we first came there.
4:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm glad you brought that up, you know, in the western mindset, some of us remember a lot of the press that came out during those troubled times, but we don't hear how things have changed because only the bad news is reported, right?
4:55
[SPEAKER_02]: So in the back of my mind, I used travels fast.
4:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, oh, Peru, they had a lot of unrest there.
5:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Did they call themselves an English, the shining light?
5:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that right?
5:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Shining path.
5:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry, say again.
5:11
[SPEAKER_01]: the shining path.
5:12
[SPEAKER_02]: The shining path, oh, okay.
5:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
5:16
[SPEAKER_01]: But that has, that's finished about, I think, in nine, about 2000.
5:24
[SPEAKER_01]: In 2000, so it's been now 17 years of peace and and considerable prosperity as well.
5:34
[SPEAKER_05]: Peru is an increasingly middle class society.
5:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And the same with Ecuador.
5:39
[SPEAKER_05]: Ecuador, even more so.
5:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Olivia perhaps a little less, but in all the countries, perhaps that's the biggest change.
5:48
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not backwards poor countries, people might expect.
5:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's fun.
5:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And at the same time, they still have a lot of natural beauty that is pristine and can be explored.
6:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where the adventurous people should head.
6:09
[SPEAKER_05]: And also authenticity, that's a key word that I think we'd like to mention about all three countries, but certainly about Peru, it's the part of our experience in preparing the 30 tracks for this book in researching the 33 tracks, in covering some 1500 kilometers on foot in the course of three years.
6:30
[SPEAKER_05]: Our experiences were diverse, but there was a common thread that ran through them.
6:35
[SPEAKER_05]: They were always authentic.
6:36
[SPEAKER_05]: They were for real, and I think that's perhaps what we most enjoyed.
6:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.
6:41
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think that authenticity is what draws a lot of us to travel and adventure.
6:47
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to have a real experience, especially in our world where so much is virtual now.
6:54
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, we do our virtual and Disney fight.
6:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.
6:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
6:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
6:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So that authenticity is something people have come to crave, I think.
7:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, maybe we should make up a new term here.
7:08
[SPEAKER_02]: We can call it authenticity.
7:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, authenticity, deficit, disorder.
7:17
[SPEAKER_02]: How about that one?
7:18
[UNKNOWN]: Ha ha.
7:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, there's no lack of authenticity at this end.
7:23
[SPEAKER_05]: I think it's worth mentioning to our listeners, people who might be interested in coming down to South America, particularly to Peru and enjoying the wonderful tracking there.
7:34
[SPEAKER_05]: Although there's much better infrastructure than they're used to be, they shouldn't expect the same level of infrastructure that they would find, for example, in national parks of the United States, Canada, Australia, or Europe.
7:47
[SPEAKER_05]: You still have to be quite self-sufficient here, outside of the principal tourist areas.
7:53
[SPEAKER_05]: You have to be able to rely on yourself, on your own gear and on your own abilities, to enjoy a track and to do so safely.
8:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I know there's ways of doing it, if you feel self-confident, you can go on your own, but not one person alone, I wouldn't recommend, but a couple of people, and explore.
8:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And other people might prefer to go on a tour, and there's no shortage of those available, for tracking, for traveling, for experiencing South America.
8:29
[SPEAKER_02]: it sounds so delightful.
8:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Well Daisy can we ask you specifically what it was like to grow up in the endies?
8:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Wonderful!
8:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I was born in Keto, the capital of Ecuador and especially in those days it was a beautiful city surrounding five mountains surrounded by the endies so much so that there were times that I would sit in my high school class and look out the window and see Katopaxi one of our
8:59
[SPEAKER_01]: snowcapped volcanoes and daydream until the teacher called out and noticed when they noticed it's very beautiful and it was wonderful growing up here.
9:13
[SPEAKER_02]: that's fun, that's really neat.
9:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Well let's let the listeners know where they can get more information while we continue the interview so we'll give the websites and what your books are just to kind of get everyone oriented and then we'll dive in and more adventures in Peru and Ecuador but the book that most recently came out is trekking Peru, a traveler's guide and that's by mountaineers books.
9:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So when was that book released and and how can people find more information about it?
9:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It was released in June of this year 2017 and there's information about it in www.trackingperu.org www.trackingperu.org
10:03
[SPEAKER_01]: and that is not dot com although if you go to dot com you'll learn more about peru but that's not your website your website is dot org so we have to get everyone's in the habit of typing com that's just the way it is right this is dot org dot com belongs to a agency a friend of ours in the city of what is in the cordillera blanca in pedo and he said it I believe for many years long before we probably thought of
10:29
[SPEAKER_01]: doing the tracking peru book.
10:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's fantastic.
10:32
[SPEAKER_02]: So you have other books as well, but you have trekking in Ecuador, which is a book that is very parallel to trekking peru.
10:43
[SPEAKER_05]: That's right.
10:43
[SPEAKER_05]: That was our first publication for the mountaineers, and we're proud of that as well.
10:48
[SPEAKER_05]: It's been around for some time now, and many readers have written to us over those years about the very special at times life-changing experiences
10:59
[SPEAKER_05]: as a result of reading our book coming here to enjoy the trekking opportunities, the adventure opportunities in Ecuador, and that's a great source of satisfaction for us.
11:09
[SPEAKER_05]: We also write for another publisher called Footprint Travel Guides, their based in England, and they publish a wonderful series of general travel guides.
11:22
[SPEAKER_05]: The most important of them by far is the South American Handbook.
11:27
[SPEAKER_05]: The author of that book is our good friend and colleague, Ben Box, and they do travel guides to individual countries of South America as well, of which we've written books about Peru, Ecuador, and Bolivia over the years.
11:42
[SPEAKER_05]: Perhaps two other websites that are worth mentioning in that context is the website for trekking in Ecuador, which is www.trackinginacodor, all run together, and that's dot com.
11:54
[SPEAKER_05]: And also the Footprint website, which is www.footprint travelguides altogether.com.
12:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, there's another website that is more information specifically about the two of you, and that is journeywriters.com.
12:12
[SPEAKER_05]: That's correct.
12:13
[SPEAKER_05]: So there's more than enough food for thought there.
12:16
[SPEAKER_02]: So how many books have you written now?
12:19
[SPEAKER_05]: You know that's a good question.
12:20
[SPEAKER_05]: We're not exactly sure.
12:22
[SPEAKER_05]: Somewhere around 30 or 35, because at times we do an entire book at times where co-authors, at times we do the cartography, at times we do chapters for books like the South American Handbook.
12:38
[SPEAKER_05]: And so I suppose we should keep a more careful list, but I think we're rounding somewhere around 35 at this point.
12:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think it's wonderful that we have the opportunity to visit with two of the most prolific writers about trekking in South America.
12:52
[SPEAKER_02]: That's awesome.
12:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm glad that you're on the show to share with us.
12:55
[SPEAKER_05]: Only some of those books are about trekking, though, Kurt, and I think it's worth mentioning that the two trekking books are special to us in the sense that we started both of them with a blank sheet of paper.
13:06
[SPEAKER_05]: The travel books are wonderful, but there we build on the work of previous authors and editors.
13:14
[SPEAKER_05]: We do new additions and sometimes there are new additions of books that we have written, sometimes there are new additions of books that someone like our colleague Ben Box and others have written.
13:25
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's very nice, it satisfying work, but there's nothing quite like writing a book all your own from scratch.
13:33
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's what it was like to write trekking Peru.
13:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, here's a question for you.
13:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to have to kind of shape the question to your circumstances.
13:41
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of Westerners would love to go and travel and see a new place, like Peru or Ecuador.
13:48
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's just a touch of fear about the unknown.
13:52
[SPEAKER_02]: There's, you know, questions about language barriers and cultural differences, and that sort of thing.
13:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, the two of you, Daisy, you grew up in the Andes, so that probably feels pretty home to you, pretty normal.
14:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And then Robert, you've been there for so long now.
14:09
[SPEAKER_02]: But what would you tell people who have an apprehension about those locations?
14:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the first thing to do before going to
14:18
[SPEAKER_01]: any country is learning the language or a little bit enough that you can show your interest and get your bearings is helpful.
14:28
[SPEAKER_01]: A number of people do speak English, especially in the cities, especially in tourist centers, but as soon as you move away from these, you're much better
14:47
[SPEAKER_01]: to experience a place when you can communicate with people.
14:50
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be a very first step.
14:53
[SPEAKER_01]: But on the other hand, you shouldn't be afraid to go for it.
14:56
[SPEAKER_01]: People are very friendly, Latin hospitality, in Indian hospitality, or well-known, and they're for real.
15:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Going back to the language, there's just one additional thing
15:17
[SPEAKER_01]: in Ecuador as well, but there's a native language that's Ketra is the most white spread and there's Imara in mostly in the area around the Titi Kaka Lake basin.
15:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And so even with Spanish sometimes we find that we might be a little lost and we've learned a few words of the other languages enough to maybe greet people and of course once you greet them they start talking
15:47
[SPEAKER_01]: When all it all spills, a smile goes a long way.
15:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, yeah, that's wonderful.
15:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I've also heard of a great idea.
15:55
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a picture book.
15:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's just a book full of pictures.
15:59
[SPEAKER_02]: You can point to something and then people know what you're looking for.
16:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I find that it doesn't matter what the language is, you can get by when you have a resource like that.
16:08
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes?
16:09
[SPEAKER_05]: That's interesting.
16:10
[SPEAKER_05]: That's interesting.
16:11
[SPEAKER_05]: We've never used one like that, but we've used lots of hand and facial gestures.
16:17
[SPEAKER_05]: and just goodwill gets you by people go out of their way to be helpful.
16:23
[SPEAKER_05]: We've been the recipients of so much kindness, so much hospitality, so much goodwill over the years here, but be all that as it may, I would echo Daisy's initial remarks that the best way people can prepare for travels in this part of the world is to learn some Spanish.
16:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure, yeah you bet.
16:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Well Robert, what was it like for you and your first few weeks when you were in South America?
16:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I know you've been there a long time now, so you have to go plug into those old memories.
16:52
[SPEAKER_02]: But what impressed you the most about what it was like there?
16:56
[SPEAKER_05]: That's a very good question.
16:58
[SPEAKER_05]: I think some of what impressed me related to the scenery to the natural beauty of the areas that we visited, how different it was from the nonetheless beautiful areas I grown up with in Eastern Canada.
17:13
[SPEAKER_05]: but it was so much more lush, it was so much wilder and more exotic to the senses here.
17:21
[SPEAKER_05]: I was also impressed by how much more relaxed the people and the customs were more easygoing.
17:30
[SPEAKER_05]: That's a two sided coin, of course, a two-aged sword.
17:34
[SPEAKER_05]: Things are a little bit less reliable, they're less punctual in this part of the world.
17:39
[SPEAKER_05]: Magnana is alive and well.
17:41
[SPEAKER_05]: Despite all the changes, despite all the modernization, despite all the information technology, this area is as connected as anywhere else on the planet, we're currently speaking to you from our home in a village of 4,500 people in the southern
18:09
[SPEAKER_05]: somehow everything was possible, and I've tenaciously clung to that feeling over the subsequent decades.
18:18
[SPEAKER_02]: In the book, Trekking Peru, you said that you chose 30 trekking routes and you covered 1,500 kilometers to research this book.
18:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So, wow, walk us through some of that.
18:30
[SPEAKER_02]: What experiences did you have?
18:32
[SPEAKER_05]: We've had a great many of them, more than we can possibly talk about
18:38
[SPEAKER_05]: But you know, one of the tracks that we did, somehow sticks with us even more than the others.
18:48
[SPEAKER_05]: It was a track to an area called Kizwachaka.
18:52
[SPEAKER_05]: Where four communities get together once a year, every year, to rebuild their Inka rope suspension bridge over the canyon of the Apurimak river.
19:02
[SPEAKER_05]: Ropes suspension bridges were very important in Inka times
19:08
[SPEAKER_05]: As some readers, some listeners, I'm sorry.
19:10
[SPEAKER_05]: I keep preparing to everybody as readers.
19:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Last year, because we're right next to them.
19:14
[SPEAKER_05]: It must be because we're right, but as some listeners might know, the Kapak Nyan, the great Inca Road, ran from what is today the border between Colombia and Ecuador, all the way south to central Chile and Argentina.
19:32
[SPEAKER_05]: It wasn't the single road.
19:34
[SPEAKER_05]: It was a network of roads.
19:36
[SPEAKER_05]: which the Incas actually adopted from pre-existing civilizations and improved and consolidated and it added up to an amazing 30,000 kilometers in total length.
19:49
[SPEAKER_05]: In order to make that vast road network feasible, they needed to spend the great canyons which cut through the slopes of the Andes Mountains and they needed to connect the roads
20:05
[SPEAKER_05]: suspension bridges.
20:07
[SPEAKER_05]: And one of our tracks in tracking Peru took us to the annual rebuilding of the very last one of these bridges to survive and is rebuilt every single year.
20:21
[SPEAKER_05]: Usually the first weekend in June although there are some variation in the dates and if people are going to do that they should they should inquire locally to make sure they're not there a week
20:34
[SPEAKER_05]: What do you think listeners would be most interested in knowing about regarding that track?
20:41
[SPEAKER_05]: And I should turn it over to Daisy for her to fill in some more of the details as well.
20:45
[SPEAKER_02]: To you, Kurt.
20:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, well, I think we're going to have to find out the amount of time commitment it takes, some of the logistics, but before we do, I want to hear more details about the experience itself.
20:55
[SPEAKER_02]: So Daisy, what is a landscape like, and what can you expect to encounter on that track?
21:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, this track leaves from a city called Yanaoka, and first to you, it's already relatively high.
21:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember exactly the altitude over there.
21:20
[SPEAKER_01]: It's above 3000, exactly.
21:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And you go a little higher over to a plateau, and you go over this ridge, and you make your way.
21:34
[SPEAKER_01]: down and you start seeing the canyon of the aporema river to deep the river.
21:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I must add that Peru has many deep canyons and this is one of them.
21:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And just to see the turquoise water of the river when you first get up on top and look down it's pretty amazing.
21:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So how high is this bridge?
22:02
[SPEAKER_05]: The bridge is about 25 meters above the level of the water, and it's some 35 meters long.
22:09
[SPEAKER_05]: It's quite impressive.
22:10
[SPEAKER_05]: I wish we had the facilities to show you a photo here, but those listeners who are interested can see a more detailed talk and slideshow that we gave about this recently on YouTube.
22:23
[SPEAKER_05]: And we can pass you the link, actually, the best way for them to do it.
22:28
[SPEAKER_05]: is just to go to our website, where they can find the link.
22:31
[SPEAKER_02]: The website is at trekkingproud.org website, is that correct?
22:34
[SPEAKER_05]: The trekkingproud.org website, and with a caveat, that will be up tomorrow morning.
22:41
[SPEAKER_05]: OK.
22:42
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
22:44
[SPEAKER_05]: The website, the website is up and running, but the link to the YouTube video will be there tomorrow morning.
22:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, the show doesn't go out immediately.
22:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So by the time the show errors, it should be alive.
22:56
[SPEAKER_02]: So everybody can look at it right now.
22:59
[SPEAKER_05]: All right, very good.
23:01
[SPEAKER_05]: So by all means, go to trekkingparu.org, www.trickingparu.org, and there will be a link on the front page to the YouTube with a slide show and a question and answer period with full full details about this inkabridge
23:19
[SPEAKER_05]: But you asked us about one of our most memorable experiences.
23:23
[SPEAKER_05]: That's one of them.
23:25
[SPEAKER_05]: But the range of experiences is extremely wide.
23:30
[SPEAKER_05]: Another track that comes to my mind at the moment was the longest one in the book.
23:35
[SPEAKER_05]: And that took us for some 135 kilometers.
23:41
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, from the Korgia Vizkanota in the Department
23:49
[SPEAKER_05]: in the neighboring department of Puno.
23:51
[SPEAKER_05]: We were three weeks on the trail.
23:53
[SPEAKER_05]: And just the rhythm of life, as we track, from village to village, from geographical area to geographical area, from base into rich top, down to the next base.
24:05
[SPEAKER_05]: And in a wild area, there were a few villages along the route to resupply.
24:12
[SPEAKER_05]: But not many.
24:13
[SPEAKER_05]: Not many.
24:15
[SPEAKER_05]: Surrounded by high-glaciated summits, including Osangate, at some 6,300 meters, the highest in the Cordigera Vilcanota, past Calcaya, with glaciers that are some 35 kilometers long, the largest in the tropics of the western hemisphere, I believe.
24:35
[SPEAKER_05]: Just living on the road, on the trail
24:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I must add that not all the tracks are that long and that there are many options where people who want to do day walks out of town, out of a city and some medium size walks, one of my favorite goes to a beautiful lake and the color is something I've never seen before.
25:12
[SPEAKER_01]: in the Cordillera Blanca, south end of the Cordillera Blanca, in central and north central and east of Peru, and it has this color, it's hard to describe, it's not the typical glacial turquoise, it's this Azur blue, deep blue, and you would think well it's a reflection from the sky,
25:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Clouds rolled in, it was the same.
25:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you get close to the edge, the water is crystal clear.
25:46
[SPEAKER_01]: You can see the rocks at the bottom.
25:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So there are some beautiful landscapes that can be seen on long tracks and also on charter ones.
25:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that sounds so nice.
25:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you hiking primarily on foot trails or are these like horse trails or are they roads or do the tracks include all of those?
26:10
[SPEAKER_05]: It, the tracks do include all of those.
26:12
[SPEAKER_05]: We tend to avoid roadwalking where we can.
26:14
[SPEAKER_05]: We don't necessarily want to be competing with motor vehicles.
26:19
[SPEAKER_05]: There's no shortage of trails in Peru of every imaginable description.
26:24
[SPEAKER_05]: Both ancient ones dating to pre-inca.
26:27
[SPEAKER_05]: And of course, Inca times with this fantastic road network that they had, much of which still survives.
26:34
[SPEAKER_05]: But there are also trails that are simply used today
26:40
[SPEAKER_05]: where the elementary school teacher walks in from the town where he might live for a full day in some cases two days to get to the school where he's teaching.
26:52
[SPEAKER_05]: And there are a few places where there are no trails at all and we travel across country.
26:58
[SPEAKER_02]: There is so much rich heritage that keeps popping up and what you're talking about here.
27:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it would be fun to hear more about that.
27:08
[SPEAKER_02]: There are so many things that we've heard about, like a Munch of Peachu, of course, is world-famous.
27:14
[SPEAKER_02]: But there are so many other ruins and villages and historical sites.
27:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Fill us in a little bit on that if you would, please.
27:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for asking, because there is so much to say about that.
27:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And something that we wanted to say, how you can hike well beyond Munch of Peachu.
27:33
[SPEAKER_01]: much of beaches the best known and just among the Inca ruins that are in Peru and neighboring countries.
27:43
[SPEAKER_01]: There are so many, so many more.
27:45
[SPEAKER_01]: The network of roads that Robert mentioned, the Capac Nian was the main one, the Great Road, but it had many branches.
27:57
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a
28:02
[SPEAKER_01]: around these transverse roads that are like rungs of a ladder and in many of them you can see even these staircases that just go up and up and up and you know at one point we were
28:31
[SPEAKER_01]: where there might be a place to cross a range and you just kept following this old ancient trail that led you almost through a tunnel through the rocks and over to the other side.
28:46
[SPEAKER_05]: And on a well-formed staircase.
28:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, these staircases are just amazing.
28:53
[SPEAKER_05]: A term that was coined by our friend and colleague and our mentor, really, for the trekking Peru project,
29:01
[SPEAKER_05]: Someone originally from Lima Peru, his name is Ricardo Espinoza.
29:06
[SPEAKER_05]: We've learned a great deal from him over the years, and we have a great deal of admiration for his achievements.
29:14
[SPEAKER_05]: Among them, a track that he did from Kito, the capital of Ecuador, to La Paz, the capital of Bolivia, traversing the entire highlands of Peru, from north to south, on the Capacñan.
29:29
[SPEAKER_05]: on the ancient Dinka Road, whenever this was possible.
29:31
[SPEAKER_05]: But, Ricardo coined the term for some of the stairways that you see over these mountain passes as stairways to heaven.
29:40
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think that's a very appropriate term in many senses of the word.
29:43
[SPEAKER_05]: So when we talked about the different terrain that you might be walking on, be it the vehicle roads, horse packing trails, footpaths, cross country, we should add stone stairways because you spend a lot of time on those, in fact.
29:57
[SPEAKER_01]: going back to the heritage, yes, once again, the Incas were the last ones, they were there when the Spanish came and so they're the best known.
30:08
[SPEAKER_01]: But before they came so many other cultures and if you travel throughout the Andes and especially in Peru, you run across many different cultures
30:25
[SPEAKER_01]: where you can still find ruins from other cultures like the Chajapoya and the Wadi and many others.
30:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess they're just names to most people, but if you are interested in archaeology, just a little bit, start reading up on Peruvian archaeology, let's say, you'll find out that
30:55
[SPEAKER_01]: are walking along and you're stepping on some potchairs.
31:00
[SPEAKER_01]: It's incredible.
31:01
[SPEAKER_05]: It's hard to walk a trail in Peru without stumbling on something the archeological significance.
31:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's neat.
31:08
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, there's some other things in Peru.
31:10
[SPEAKER_02]: What about the NASCAR lines?
31:12
[SPEAKER_05]: The NASCAR lines are located on the coast of Peru to the south of the capital, Lima.
31:17
[SPEAKER_05]: They're enigmatic, of course, and they're beautiful, they're intriguing.
31:21
[SPEAKER_05]: They're best seen from the air.
31:23
[SPEAKER_05]: So, many people choose to visit them by flying over in small aircraft.
31:27
[SPEAKER_05]: There's an observation tower as well for those who prefer not to take their feet off the ground, but it's more interesting to go up in one of the small aircraft.
31:37
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not an area that's particularly suitable for cracking, but it makes an absolutely fascinating visit.
31:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, well, some people that may not know about the nascalines is that these are our lines and kind of stick figures and things that were made at such a large scale that you cannot even see them, unless maybe you're on an overlooking mountain top or in an airplane.
31:59
[SPEAKER_05]: If you're standing next to them, they look like deep furrows in the ground.
32:03
[SPEAKER_05]: And I said they were inigmatic because people are still trying to guess what their significance was.
32:11
[SPEAKER_05]: Why a civilization went to so much effort to draw these things when, as you point out, they couldn't be seen under ordinary circumstances.
32:22
[SPEAKER_05]: And so there have been different theories over the years, some a little bit more far-fetched than others.
32:27
[SPEAKER_05]: They are probably likely to have been a giant calendar.
32:33
[SPEAKER_05]: The straight lines that have been stretched through the desert sands of the Pampacolodada,
32:40
[SPEAKER_05]: of NASCA are a reference to constellations, perhaps.
32:45
[SPEAKER_05]: There are straight lines with which certain celestial bodies might have lined up at certain key times of the year, equinoxes, and solstices, or certain bright stars might have lined up at certain times.
32:57
[SPEAKER_05]: And then the figures that are associated with them, there's a spider, there's a hummingbird, there are various others.
33:05
[SPEAKER_05]: Some of the nature of some of the figures is actually hard to describe, some have
33:10
[SPEAKER_05]: thought to be astronauts and a reference to visitors to the area from other planets.
33:16
[SPEAKER_05]: Who knows?
33:16
[SPEAKER_05]: There's lots of conjecture.
33:18
[SPEAKER_05]: But as I pointed out, it being in the center of a very dry flat desert area makes it a fascinating place to visit, place for conventional tourism and for these overflights for which the area is, of course, famous, but not specifically for trekking.
33:36
[SPEAKER_05]: That's not an area to wander off on your own with a day pack and a liter
33:40
[SPEAKER_05]: because you're in the middle of a great, big desert.
33:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure, right.
33:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, let's jump back to the Andes.
33:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that my curiosity is just about all the variety that there is in the area.
33:51
[SPEAKER_02]: There's so much to see.
33:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And I guess be curious about it.
33:56
[SPEAKER_02]: It just sounds like a fascinating place to go and discover.
34:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Certainly it is.
34:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And you find large cordillitis, large mountain ranges.
34:11
[SPEAKER_01]: go for, I don't know, 200 kilometers and there's like the cordillera blanca's full of it's all snow covered peaks and there's wonderful trekking there and if you go to the south of the country there are volcanoes like in the Atikippa area there's some active volcanoes even and you're walking amidst the large volcanoes like we said before canyons are everywhere
34:41
[SPEAKER_01]: and some of the deepest canyons in the world are there as well.
34:46
[SPEAKER_01]: There's just so much in the way of natural beauty.
34:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Every area is a little different.
34:54
[SPEAKER_01]: In the central highlands, you have these terraces, man-made terraces, that were built to cope with a very steep terrain.
35:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And some of these,
35:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And some areas are still in use, so you see the people are growing crops, and the crops change depending on the altitude, so the lower down you might have corn and higher up you might have potatoes and they're almost on the same field, but because of the very steep slopes you get different climate and it's interesting.
35:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, if someone wanted to come and track Peru or
35:39
[SPEAKER_02]: they encountered down there.
35:41
[SPEAKER_05]: In that sense, the two countries are actually quite different.
35:45
[SPEAKER_05]: Peru has a well-defined, wet and dry season in the highlands and the dry season is preferred for trekking.
35:54
[SPEAKER_05]: It's typically from May, through September, inclusive, and that's when you can most
36:09
[SPEAKER_05]: At altitude, temperatures can dip well below the freezing point, so you have to be prepared in terms of your gear, your tent, your sleeping bag, your warm clothing.
36:20
[SPEAKER_05]: But you won't get a lot of rain.
36:23
[SPEAKER_05]: There can be exceptions, of course, but generally it's nice and dry.
36:26
[SPEAKER_05]: In Ecuador, on the other hand, being closer to the equator and having much more humidity in general, you can have wet conditions at any time of the year.
36:37
[SPEAKER_05]: Generally, in the mountains, the dry season is the same as I mentioned from May, through September, but there's more likely to be rain, even outside the wet season, and you have to be more prepared for that.
36:51
[SPEAKER_05]: That's an important difference.
36:53
[SPEAKER_01]: On the other hand, the temperatures aren't as low, it's warmer than it is in Peru or Bolivia.
37:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Mmm, okay.
37:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a little warmer, yeah.
37:07
[SPEAKER_01]: The higher you go, the cooler is going to be, but even at the higher altitudes, the altitudes you'll be tracking in Ecuador are lower than those you might be tracking in Peru or Bolivia.
37:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's not us called even when it's cold.
37:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's funny that was actually my next question is what are the elevations that you're going to encounter on these tracks?
37:30
[SPEAKER_05]: In terms of the book, our tracks run from in Peru,
37:36
[SPEAKER_05]: R-tracks run from about 1,500 meters above sea level, right up to 5,250 meters above sea level.
37:46
[SPEAKER_05]: 5,250 was the highest pass that we crossed.
37:49
[SPEAKER_05]: Apache, one can a, Apache, and so, yeah, you have to be prepared for altitude.
37:56
[SPEAKER_05]: You have to give yourself time to a climatize to altitude, that's very important.
38:00
[SPEAKER_05]: And the best way to a climatize is just to take it slow and easy.
38:06
[SPEAKER_05]: people who fly into high altitude areas, don't give their body sufficient time to acclimatize and they're the ones most likely to feel the symptoms of sorochia or mountain sickness.
38:18
[SPEAKER_05]: And so our recommendation or what we do whenever possible is to make the transition gradually from the coast to the highlands.
38:28
[SPEAKER_05]: And certainly you shouldn't head out on a demanding track
38:36
[SPEAKER_05]: such as coup score or what as, you need time to apply the dice.
38:40
[SPEAKER_05]: It's very important.
38:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you're not talking about low-altitudes here, especially the high-pass you just mentioned.
38:47
[SPEAKER_02]: 52, 50 meters that translates to what were somewhere around 17,000 feet.
38:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, 17, 18,000 feet.
38:53
[SPEAKER_05]: And so yeah, you have to take that very seriously.
38:59
[SPEAKER_05]: But the body has various mechanisms, various physiological and biochemical mechanisms for adapting to altitude.
39:08
[SPEAKER_05]: It just needs time to do it.
39:11
[SPEAKER_05]: And so the official recommendation by physicians is not to climb more than 300 meters a day at high altitude.
39:21
[SPEAKER_05]: That's not always practical.
39:23
[SPEAKER_05]: You sometimes need to climb, you sometimes need to climb more than that.
39:28
[SPEAKER_05]: at gradually increasing altitudes, gives you a chance to acclimatize, making sure to keep well hydrated.
39:36
[SPEAKER_05]: Although this hasn't been well documented in the literature, there seems to be an increase in your in-output without it you're you're you're peeing a lot as you climb and so you tend to dry out and you need to keep up with that by drinking more than you normally would.
39:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Since it's called you don't feel like drinking sometimes, but you have to push yourself.
39:56
[SPEAKER_05]: Needless to say, avoid alcohol and certainly tobacco at those sorts of altitudes.
40:02
[SPEAKER_05]: And just be patient with yourself.
40:05
[SPEAKER_05]: If you do find that you're getting some of the symptoms of mountain sickness, which includes headache, a pounding heartbeat with minimal exertion, nausea, occasionally even vomiting and fatigue, then slow down, take it easy.
40:22
[SPEAKER_05]: If the symptoms are mild, you can weigh it out for a night and see how it goes, but if the symptoms are becoming more severe, you shouldn't hesitate to turn around and go back down.
40:33
[SPEAKER_05]: This scent is the only reliable treatment for mountain sickness.
40:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm, yeah, good word.
40:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So what is the vegetation like?
40:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Are people going to be experiencing dense forests, high prairies, jungles, what would people expect?
40:51
[SPEAKER_01]: depends where you go.
40:53
[SPEAKER_01]: You can expect all of those going back to trekking Peru since it's on in the highlands.
41:00
[SPEAKER_01]: There's some cloud forests and there's many high platoes and some areas.
41:11
[SPEAKER_01]: You get some forests.
41:13
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a tree called a polyleptic Latin name.
41:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It's one of the highest-growing trees.
41:23
[SPEAKER_01]: What is one of the world's most precious forest?
41:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Forest is a polyleppis forest.
41:28
[SPEAKER_01]: You can in Bolivia, but you get these kind of forests along some of the tracks in Peru as well.
41:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And in other areas, you're above tree line.
41:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's maybe rocky with some straw or something.
41:48
[SPEAKER_01]: What's amazing is that even in the highest places, if you look carefully between the rocks you'll find these little flowers that show up especially at the beginning of at the end of the rainy season like if you go early in May you'll find flowers where you wouldn't expect and if you go higher you'll be on more aims and not likely to find maybe some likeness or something like that.
42:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And with the climate change, there's more and more deglation.
42:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So generally, the tracks do not go above the snow line, the ice line.
42:30
[SPEAKER_01]: But in that, like I said, it's climbing.
42:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're getting further away from the ice these days than years ago when the glaciers came down lower.
42:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Some, there are possibilities for walking from the Highlands towards some lower areas towards the lower areas towards the coast or towards the jungle.
42:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, the lower you get the more vegetation you get.
43:00
[SPEAKER_01]: But generally speaking, the rainforests, let's say, are not suitable for too much trekking, because navigation is difficult.
43:10
[SPEAKER_01]: You probably would need
43:12
[SPEAKER_01]: to go with a native person from the area if you want to go walking in the jungle.
43:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Just so much dense vegetation that it would be almost impossible to find your way through, huh?
43:23
[SPEAKER_01]: you'll find your way through somewhere, but you might not find your way back out.
43:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Good point.
43:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Good point.
43:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow, so the hiking that you did, the trekking that you did, put together these two books, there had to be some surprises and some discoveries that were really amazing to you.
43:42
[SPEAKER_02]: So Daisy, how about you go first?
43:44
[SPEAKER_02]: What was something that surprised you about Peru or Ecuador?
43:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, that's a
43:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we can, can pass it on to Robert, maybe he has somebody else on it.
43:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's start with Robert.
43:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Then Robert, what do you think about it?
43:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you can ask Robert now again.
44:01
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, one of the things that surprised me at first, but now perhaps I've grown accustomed to and is one of the experiences that I most cherish about being out in the back country of Peru and indeed the other countries as well.
44:19
[SPEAKER_05]: is the hospitality of the people that we meet along the trails.
44:24
[SPEAKER_05]: One might expect that folks would be perhaps cold.
44:30
[SPEAKER_05]: And indeed, they seem to be that way at first.
44:34
[SPEAKER_05]: They're shy.
44:35
[SPEAKER_05]: They're a little bit withdrawn.
44:37
[SPEAKER_05]: And so based on that impression, you think, well, they don't really care about you or they're a little bit afraid of you
44:49
[SPEAKER_05]: But if you give yourself just a little bit of time, you make a little bit of effort to break the ice by speaking the few words of the local language that you do know, by being open to their way of thinking their way of looking at things, obviously by treating everyone with respect and courtesy, by not pulling out your camera or your cell phone and pointing it in someone's face as the first thing you do.
45:16
[SPEAKER_05]: You'll find that people are actually very warm, very hospitable, very generous of themselves, and often of the few material possessions they have, indeed the less people have, the more generous they tend to be.
45:34
[SPEAKER_05]: We've been the recipients of so much kind hospitality over the years, people have welcomed us to their homes, we will come to a village, for example,
45:44
[SPEAKER_05]: And ask for permission to pitch our tent outside someone's home, which is something you should always do if you're out in the back country, you can pitch your tent anywhere you want and that's fine.
45:53
[SPEAKER_05]: But if you're in a slightly populated area, you will want to ask for permission and when we do often does not the answer is, no, no, you won't pitch your tent outside my house.
46:04
[SPEAKER_05]: You're going to come and sleep inside because we'll make room for you.
46:07
[SPEAKER_05]: However small the home or however large the family.
46:10
[SPEAKER_05]: There's always room to spread out your sleeping bags in the kitchen or next to the fire.
46:15
[SPEAKER_05]: And that sort of kindness, that sort of generosity, at first surprised me a great deal.
46:22
[SPEAKER_05]: Now I've come to realize it's just part of the fundamental and the enormous of reciprocity of always offering something to the stranger who comes through your community and indeed it's the responsibility of
46:39
[SPEAKER_05]: the tracker to reciprocate for that, in whatever way he has at his disposal.
46:44
[SPEAKER_05]: Share some of your own food with your hosts.
46:47
[SPEAKER_05]: Offer to pay after you've been given a night's hospitality.
46:51
[SPEAKER_05]: Offer to pay a reasonable amount, offering too much isn't a good idea either, because that creates an unfair expectation of the next tracker, who comes down the trail.
47:02
[SPEAKER_05]: Offer to help, maybe you'll be the guest of some older people who are having difficulty
47:09
[SPEAKER_05]: with some of the tasks they have to do in the countryside?
47:11
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, take a couple of hours and maybe I can help you fix those fence posts or whatever else needs doing.
47:19
[SPEAKER_05]: But be willing to share of yourself in the same way that people share with you.
47:25
[SPEAKER_05]: and you'll be in store for many memorable surprises of your own.
47:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.
47:30
[SPEAKER_02]: That sounds so nice.
47:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I was just getting ready to ask.
47:33
[SPEAKER_02]: How can you give back again?
47:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm glad that you went there because most people I think overlook that.
47:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I get a lot of guests that talk about the hospitality that they've enjoyed around the world, but rarely do they say, and here's how you can give back.
47:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So thank you for that.
47:48
[SPEAKER_02]: That's really important.
47:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And one thing perhaps on the topic of giving
47:54
[SPEAKER_01]: In some places where they've seen a lot of tourists, there might be some people begging children and adults.
48:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a good idea to give candy to kids, for instance, because it just brings that expectation from the next person coming by, better not to give too beggars unless I mean sometimes you're
48:24
[SPEAKER_01]: getting something working their land or whatever then you know you share your food that's perfectly acceptable but it's a good idea to let's say if you get to a community maybe through the community you can pass something along for the children, for the school, something like that and you asked before
48:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I hadn't thought of it because I was used to things in this part of the world in the Andes, but some people might find some of the food interesting.
49:06
[SPEAKER_01]: There are the potatoes native to the Andes, even though Idaho and the Prince Edward Island might not think so or Ireland, but really it's native crop of the Andes.
49:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It was domesticated somewhere around Lake Titicaca from what we're told.
49:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And there are many varieties of potatoes in that.
49:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Can be interesting if you're walking around people do often give you food and they'll give you what they eat, which is often boiled potatoes, but just the native varieties that aren't
49:50
[SPEAKER_01]: potatoes, they're different colors, there's some are very small, they're delicious, and in addition to the potatoes, there are other Indian tubers that are related, some are like the sweet potato, but different varieties as well, and others that are these long things that are very sweet, they're called Ocas and something else that is called Masra or Isania.
50:20
[SPEAKER_01]: You'll have the opportunity to taste these if you stay with people in their homes because usually that's what they'll give you, they'll make a soup and then they'll give you boiled potatoes of some sort, and corn is also native to the Americas, and there's some very nice corn there, there's one type that they call choclocus cano, it's they're huge kernels, and they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice, they're very nice
50:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It's delicious, so that perhaps is something that I'm at a benefit of trekking in the Andes.
50:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I love the way that you can enjoy some of the local foods when one travels.
51:03
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just, it adds so much of the experience, but it's not just about the food, is it?
51:08
[SPEAKER_02]: It's about sharing a meal with others.
51:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's something, it's just precious to share a meal with people.
51:17
[SPEAKER_02]: There's something innately human about that that I think is so important.
51:21
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's, that's really unique.
51:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Out of the way places, people are cooking with fire.
51:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And I say fire, I don't necessarily say wood, because in many of these places there is no wood.
51:35
[SPEAKER_01]: You might find it interesting to know that people might be burning cow dung or from the native animals, from the camelids, from the lamus and alpacas.
51:50
[SPEAKER_01]: They collected, they dry it, and that's what they burn,
51:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And you'll be sitting with the family next to the fire.
51:59
[SPEAKER_01]: They're probably been kind and give you the little stool closest to the fire.
52:05
[SPEAKER_01]: They tend to sit in these tiny little stools that I find rather uncomfortable, but it's a matter of what you're used to, yes.
52:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're sitting low to the ground next to the stove, with where they're cooking.
52:20
[SPEAKER_01]: You'll come out smelling like smoke.
52:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Some people say the, the tongue makes the, gives the food a beefy flavor.
52:30
[SPEAKER_01]: The soup comes out with a beefy flavor, but even if, even if it's your boiled noodles, they taste different if they're cooked that way.
52:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we're talking about authenticity again, aren't we?
52:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we are.
52:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's wonderful.
52:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I love it.
52:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, for travelers that want to go to Peru or to Ecuador or
52:53
[SPEAKER_05]: uh... one of the health concerns that they need to take into account you know there's a whole chapter devoted to that in each of the the two tracking books that we've written as well as in all the books that we write uh... for footprint the general travel guides and so it it's more than more information that we could have a while standing on one foot but perhaps the most important thing to keep in mind is that you should be aware of your own limitations and to respect them
53:23
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, part of tracking involves pushing yourself, perhaps through the limit, but not beyond.
53:29
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, you don't want to get yourself into trouble by doing more than you're physically capable of.
53:35
[SPEAKER_05]: The other things are fairly straightforward.
53:38
[SPEAKER_05]: You want to be careful with the water.
53:41
[SPEAKER_05]: Really water throughout the end, these of South America, should not be consumed without being purified, and that doesn't matter if it comes from a tap
53:52
[SPEAKER_05]: from a spring, a well, or a river in the mountains.
53:55
[SPEAKER_05]: It must be purified in some way.
53:57
[SPEAKER_05]: And there are several different ways of doing that.
54:00
[SPEAKER_05]: It's discussed in the books.
54:01
[SPEAKER_05]: Our personal preference is ceramic filter with an incorporated pump.
54:07
[SPEAKER_05]: These are readily available and they're an indispensable part of our travel kit.
54:11
[SPEAKER_05]: But you should always purify your water.
54:15
[SPEAKER_05]: Boiling is another way to purify it.
54:16
[SPEAKER_05]: But of course, if you wanted to purify your water exclusively
54:20
[SPEAKER_05]: you'd have to carry more fuel than you can for a long trek.
54:24
[SPEAKER_05]: You want to be careful about food as well.
54:27
[SPEAKER_05]: Especially in cities and towns, you don't want to eat on the street.
54:31
[SPEAKER_05]: The street vendors may be well-intentioned and their dishes might be very tasty, but they simply have no way of maintaining the hygiene of their utensils.
54:40
[SPEAKER_05]: Look for cleanliness when you go into a restaurant in a place that you're not familiar with.
54:45
[SPEAKER_05]: When you buy fruit and vegetables in a market,
54:50
[SPEAKER_05]: before you eat them.
54:51
[SPEAKER_05]: You want to take precautions against insects, as well, especially in lowland areas.
54:56
[SPEAKER_05]: You'll inevitably get a few bites, but in areas where there may be diseases like malaria, yellow fever, and dengue fever, you want to be especially careful by wearing, by wearing long sleeve shirts, by having a good fly screen on your tent, and by judicious use of insect repellent.
55:15
[SPEAKER_05]: When that's necessary,
55:19
[SPEAKER_05]: So it doesn't apply specifically to the tracks in tracking the rubies which we tend to be in the highlands.
55:25
[SPEAKER_05]: And those are really the most basic precautions, but also if you do develop some minor illness, be it a stomach upset or an upper respiratory infection, which is fairly common in the cold dry air of the highlands, just be patient with yourself.
55:40
[SPEAKER_05]: Don't get scared.
55:42
[SPEAKER_05]: People get sick and get well in South America, just as they do anywhere else in the world.
55:47
[SPEAKER_01]: to the food drunken mention, not eating in the street.
55:50
[SPEAKER_01]: We were talking before about eating with families.
55:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Generally, if it's been boiled, it's something you can eat.
55:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Just boiling will kill some of the stuff that might be in the soup.
56:03
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
56:04
[SPEAKER_05]: If it's freshly cooked, then it's generally safe.
56:07
[SPEAKER_05]: Sure.
56:07
[SPEAKER_05]: Sure.
56:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, we have burned through almost all of our time, but I would love to hear a story about an encounter that you had that was especially meaningful.
56:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll give you a moment to think about what that might be, but something that impacted you and became a memory that you're going to hold on to for years to come.
56:28
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I'm looking for.
56:29
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, there have been so many of them.
56:31
[SPEAKER_05]: It's hard to pinpoint anyone in particular, but sometimes the most memorable encounters
56:38
[SPEAKER_05]: have been with young children.
56:40
[SPEAKER_05]: The sons and daughters of our hosts, invillages and towns, or shepherds and shepherdesses that we will meet along the trail as they look after their flocks of sheep, or goats, or cattle, lammas, and alpacas.
56:56
[SPEAKER_05]: And they will often tell us about the most amazing places that we've never, we would have never found on our own and they'll leave their flocks and say, hey,
57:07
[SPEAKER_05]: Come with us, we'll show you where this is.
57:10
[SPEAKER_05]: And they've taken us as just one example to this immense boulder called Khatun Rumioka.
57:18
[SPEAKER_05]: It's in the back bush of the Department of Puno in the south of Peru, in the Cordigena Carabaya.
57:25
[SPEAKER_05]: And later on, we learned that this is what's called a glacial erratic.
57:31
[SPEAKER_05]: These immense boulders, the size of a two-story house,
57:35
[SPEAKER_05]: will have been carried there by glaciers in Euras gone by.
57:41
[SPEAKER_05]: And so wandering through the fields in a relatively flat landscape with a few rolling hills on the side, these little kids, this brother and sister, took us to this immense holder that the four of us then stood in the shadow oven, we took some photos and stuff.
58:00
[SPEAKER_05]: It's on the one hand, the beauty, the wonder of the landscape of this glacially radic that seems so incongruous in its surroundings.
58:08
[SPEAKER_05]: And at the same time, the goodwill of these young kids who not necessarily expecting anything in return, but just to share some of what they hold to be special and fascinating in their surroundings in their home went out of their way to show it to us, to share it with us.
58:29
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure we'll think of as dozen more, but there have been so many, it's hard to pinpoint just one.
58:36
[SPEAKER_02]: well I love the way that again and again you bring us back to the people it's all about the landscape and the trekking itself the adventure of travel but again you bring us back to the people and especially experiences that you have eating with the local people visiting with the children and you know one thing about going on a little adventure with the children like you just described that is so delightful and surprising that people that may not be that familiar with it is the way that the joy and the
59:06
[SPEAKER_02]: is contagious and it makes something that might seem a little less than extraordinary, very extraordinary because you get to see it through the eyes of the innocent ones.
59:19
[SPEAKER_05]: It keeps you innocent as well.
59:21
[SPEAKER_05]: It's the perfect antidote to cynicism, which unfortunately is all too rife in other contexts.
59:29
[SPEAKER_05]: There are more stories we could share with you if you wish,
59:33
[SPEAKER_05]: One that's just come to Daisy's mind is about an earthquake that we missed in the case.
59:40
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's hear me.
59:41
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, there is a thing.
59:42
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, Daisy's turned.
59:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we were on a track in the Department of Gusco where there are like, people know many, many ruins and some of these are these terraces, like, go on forever, I mentioned them before.
1:00:03
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going by a place called Pinchaku Nuyoku.
1:00:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Pinchaku Nuyoku.
1:00:09
[SPEAKER_01]: It's pronunciation isn't perfect.
1:00:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's between a wonderful place called Joke Gidao, which I would say rivals, much of a picture, and it's beauty.
1:00:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also an ink of place.
1:00:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were near this place, and we went by these terraces.
1:00:33
[SPEAKER_01]: We got there, it was the afternoon, so we sat down and it was so beautiful, sunny, we sat there and we were debating whether we should camp there and Robert sat down to make some notes.
1:00:49
[SPEAKER_01]: These terraces had working water channels going through them, so I went to take a little
1:01:02
[SPEAKER_01]: The next day we moved on and we crossed the river to the next bridge and we got to the next place we were headed a little tiny hamlet where a family had a campground so to speak a little area where they allowed people to camp and when we got there they said are you okay it's good to see you but where were you last night in the evening where were you during the earthquake
1:01:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we were sitting on these inked terraces.
1:01:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Built over 500 years ago, we did not feel a thing.
1:01:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Robert was sitting with his back to one of the walls.
1:01:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I was bathing in one of their channels, one of their irrigation channels.
1:01:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And we did not feel a thing.
1:01:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's pretty amazing that these structures
1:02:00
[SPEAKER_01]: hundreds of years.
1:02:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It's amazing.
1:02:03
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I don't know much about it, but I've seen pictures of some of the stonework that was done by the Incas and others who built these things.
1:02:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's intricate, amazing stonework that I think it holds together potentially because of the way the stones are cut to such amazing kind of jigsaw puzzle-type shapes.
1:02:21
[SPEAKER_05]: Without any mortar, without any masonry whatsoever.
1:02:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so they can shift, but they don't fall apart.
1:02:27
[SPEAKER_02]: They're just kind of like a tongue-in-grew, they're held together.
1:02:30
[SPEAKER_02]: That's really neat stuff, really neat stuff.
1:02:32
[SPEAKER_05]: And archaeologists continue to study them, and I think they're still a great deal for contemporary architects to learn about how these structures were built.
1:02:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
1:02:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:02:43
[SPEAKER_02]: There's so much that we can learn from travel and so many amazing experiences that we can have and so many memories that, you know, we can collect and put on our treasure chest of memories.
1:02:54
[SPEAKER_02]: We've got to do more of it.
1:02:56
[SPEAKER_02]: So let people know again, how can they find your travel guides?
1:03:00
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
1:03:01
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, the first place to go is our website journeywriters.com and that has
1:03:11
[SPEAKER_05]: both by the mountaineers, the publishers of trekking Peru, which is our latest book, and by footprint travel guides, who publish our general travel guides to South America, including guide books to Peru and Bolivia.
1:03:28
[SPEAKER_05]: So the best one stop shop is journeywriters.com, that's right, and all the links, all the links branch out from there, like the different branches of the encarote.
1:03:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I don't know about our listeners, but you have really made me want to go to Peru.
1:03:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I've long looked at Peru as an amazing destination and talking with you makes me want to go all the more I'm going to have to get down there.
1:03:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So thank you so much for sharing that corner of the world with us.
1:03:56
[SPEAKER_05]: If you'll permit us the final word, Curtis, we would like to thank you very much for offering us this opportunity to share with your well-established body of listeners.
1:04:06
[SPEAKER_05]: It's been a pleasure for us and we would also like to thank both our publishers.
1:04:11
[SPEAKER_05]: The mountaineers books of Seattle, Washington, and footprint travel guides of Bath in the United Kingdom for giving us the opportunity to share our experiences with a wide readership.
1:04:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Kurt, and thank you to all the listeners, and we invite you all to come and experience South America firsthand.
1:04:34
[SPEAKER_01]: We're sure you will not be disappointed.
1:04:37
[SPEAKER_02]: No doubt, no doubt.
1:04:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So for all of our listeners out there, thank you so much for taking the time to listen today.
1:04:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And remember, until the next show, get out there and have some fun, but you might be between now and the next show, think about planning your next trip to Peru, or to Ecuador, or someplace like that, to experience some of the things that Robert and Daisy have been talking to us about, wonderful.
1:05:02
[SPEAKER_02]: So get out there and have some fun.