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Bewitched - Breaking the Spell After Spiritual Mentoring Goes Wrong - Elizabeth's Story · Reclaiming Consciousness

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Reclaiming Consciousness.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Elise Bassine, trauma and breathwork expert and creator of the Metamorphosis Method, the only methodology bridging the gap between spiritual healing and clinical trauma work.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: For many years, our consciousness has been hijacked by societal and cultural programming, religion, the media, and familial and ancestral trauma.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: In this podcast, you'll discover my unique perspective on trauma healing and how it is the gateway to fully reclaiming your consciousness.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: You'll hear stories and teachings that expand your mind as you discover how every relationship challenge, business block, or limiting pattern is an invitation to reclaim the parts of your consciousness you unknowingly gave away.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Get ready to go deep.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's dive in.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone, welcome back to the show.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we are in the home stretch of the Bewitch series.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh this week we have Elizabeth's episode.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: And um, this one is truly unique.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're all very unique, yet all the same.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like the group of people that we chose to be interviewed, well, they kind of chose themselves in a weird way.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we chose them, but also they were all people that we felt had a very unique perspective and really added a unique puzzle piece to the story.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: And to be perfectly honest, I have definitely had some internal conflict around this whole series for many reasons.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, one being that part of me has been like not wanting to put so much time and energy into this person, Betty.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other part of me really believes that not only is this an important story to tell, but also my place within all of it, which to me is the trauma healing piece.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: And also for so long, I have felt like it was part of my work to understand the deeper layers of complex trauma and also trauma's effect on the brain, specifically around mind control and the way that your beliefs can be created or implemented based on trauma, you know, and the different ways that that has been done on our planet, and also really wanting to create tools for people to heal from that.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I do believe that this is part of that.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, I think bringing this story forward is important from the perspective of the work that I want to do in the world and also creating this new conversation and new way of thinking, new way of looking at the practitioner-client relationship, the online coaching space, and raising the bar in the ethics that we have as a community and really re-examining that and looking at what that means.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, I have a lot of thought leadership and expertise in that space.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that conversation is one that I love and I love bringing forward.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that this series has been a really powerful conduit for me to bring that conversation forward as far as what does it mean to hold ourselves to a higher ethical standard and how do we do that?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then what are the things that stop us from doing that?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that the unhealed trauma or unacknowledged wounding that creates these dynamics and that facilitates people acting in ways that are abusive or manipulative.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: If we're not aware of those things and they're not brought into the greater conversation, then how can we shift them?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that is for me the deeper purpose around bringing this forward.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: And as you've heard me share, I've had a lot of new teachings come through, especially my 11 patterns of manipulation, which I'll be sharing at some point soon.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: But this really is about bringing a bigger conversation forward as far as you know what we're requiring of ourselves, what it really means to hire a mentor or to learn from somebody, and what should that relationship be at its highest level?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then also what are the deeper layers of trauma that facilitate relationships that end up not being held to that higher standard.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: So just wanted to say that as some things I've been reflecting on as we go through this and as you know, we're wrapping up.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we have three more interviews.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: This week is Elizabeth.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: And Elizabeth had been in Betty's world since I believe 2016.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: So she has a very unique perspective as far as how the evolution happened and when she first met her and how it evolved.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I think this is gonna be a really powerful interview.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: But again, we see the same patterns, you know, the trauma bonding making her feel special, all of the women in the group being successful and her being attracted because of that.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: There's a few other things in the episode which you'll see.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I think you guys are gonna enjoy this.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: And please reach out if you have any questions about anything.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I appreciate all of you who've been messaging me and telling me how impactful this has been for you.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you again for that.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Just a few things coming up here.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: We have past lives and money right now on sale.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: So um, we'll link that below.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: That is really a non-negotiable for any woman, I think any woman who listens to this podcast because it gives you very practical tools that you can use to clear the fear of being seen, the fear of being judged or criticized, those procrastination blocks, those stories you tell yourself about why you need to wait to do the thing that you really want to do, or all of that stuff that kind of stops you from stepping forward into your authenticity, into your purpose and sharing it.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: This is your toolkit for that to uh permanently dissolve those blocks as it relates to the past life archetypal energies of the fear of being ostracized or killed for sharing your gift.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: So please reach out with any questions about that.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: Also, the next round of the Metamorphosis will be starting at the end of May.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: And if you join the Metamorphosis now, you'll receive$500 off and you'll receive Past Lives of Money as a bonus.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have been interested in doing the Metamorphosis, if you haven't done it yet, or even if you already have, please reach out.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you've already done it, you can do it at a discount if it's your second time or third time doing it.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: I have plenty of people that do it for the second or third time because it's so good every single time.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's always something new, there's always new and better results and more things that come up.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you've never done it before, and especially if you're somebody who's really resonating with the Bewitch series and you're really asking those bigger questions of like, how do we prevent this type of thing from happening?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: The metamorphosis is how we prevent it because that's where you really go deeper into your unconscious wounding, the subconscious mind, where a lot of these memories are stored that you might not be aware of.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then you become aware of them and shift them so that you are not a match for these patterns of manipulation.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: You're not a match for certain types of abusive relationship dynamics.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: And you're also not a match for, you know, the things that stop you from moving forward in your life, like knowing that you want to step forward with your purpose, but not sure exactly what to do, where to start, or what that is, or you know what it is, but there's something stopping you from moving forward with it, the metamorphosis will solve that for you and you will leave feeling confident and ready to take action on what it is that you know you're meant to do in the world.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: And if you already have a business, most likely you will take it to the next level with more clients, more opportunities, more money coming in.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Also, if you're just interested in up-leveling your relationships, your relationship with yourself, this is the place to do it.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: So the results speak for themselves.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can go on the website and look at all of the insane client results that have come out of this program.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's tried and true.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're interested in that, please reach out to me and I will leave it there.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Enjoy the episode with Elizabeth.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_03: When I was a little baby entrepreneur back in 2012, 2011, 2013, there was this woman who was vibrant and alive and friggin' magical on the scene.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: And her name was Elizabeth Purvis.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I watched and I studied, and then I found out she was a computer science nerd from the 90s, like me, except I wasn't computer science, I was biology, but you get the point.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I watched what you were doing, Elizabeth.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_03: And it wasn't ever that I wanted to be like you, but you were always so inspiring to me as I was beginning my own business.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_03: And all these years later, 10 years later or so, here we sit on the Bewitched breaking the spell after spiritual mentoring goes wrong podcast.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_03: And one of the reasons that I'm here is because of you, not blaming you, of course, because we just but when I was looking at what you were doing, one of the questions I started asking is who is she working with?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: There was something that you put out probably in 2015 or something that was so vibrant and so alive and magnetic.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, I have to know what she's doing behind the scenes.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: And that's how I came across, Betty, is through your recommendation and testimonial, I'll say.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so today we're here with you, Elizabeth Kervis.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_03: I want to welcome you to our podcast.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: And there's just so much to say.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things that I want to say as we get started is that I'm so glad that you decided to step into this hot seat with us because you carry historical knowledge.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: You carry a thread in this tapestry that we are weaving that no one else has because you have this perspective of having known Betty for so long.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: And not to mention your simply unique perspective on everything going on and the energetics of the world.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: So, welcome to the show.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: We're so happy to have you here.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you so much.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: I am so excited to be here.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Just really, really grateful for this conversation, not just because of all the healing that it's bringing around Betty specifically, but just because of all the healing it's bringing around this whole issue of spiritual mentoring gone wrong.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: And really, to me, a big part of what is important for all of us as transformational leaders, as I say, is learning how it's gonna, this is gonna sound weird to say because no one wants to be the Betty.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think anyone ever sets out, that's my view.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think people set out to be the Betty.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder if Betty even set out to be the Betty.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of doubt it actually.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: But we all have a a major, major responsibility as leaders, and I believe it's getting even more and more important how we show up.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that this conversation is really sparking a lot of that for everyone, in addition to all the all the things on the spiritual venture side.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just absolutely thrilled that you're having this conversation, absolutely thrilled that it's resonating with so many people, and just really happy to contribute however I can.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: We're happy to have you.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm really excited because you and I connected tangentially, but never got to like fully connect.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really excited to hear your perspective on this because it's one that I don't feel very familiar with.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm super excited.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: So why don't we just start at the beginning, whoever that is for you?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so funny.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was really thinking about I made if I don't have notes, then I can't be fully present.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I sat down and thought about what I really wanted to share.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing I want to do is we begin because I want to talk about how I came across Betty and how I entered her world.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: But in order to do that in a really productive way, I kind of have to back up the truck a little bit and give a little bit of my backstory actually and who I am and the perspective I come from.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: A couple things to know about me, in addition to what I do.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I think most my name's Elizabeth Purvis, my company is called Seven Figure Goddess, and I help transformational leaders make a lot of money, basically, in a nutshell, in all kinds of ways.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: But before I came into this world, I had a background about 30 years in traditional Western magic, specifically Wicca, which is also known as modern-day witchcraft.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: I have initiations in an established Wiccan tradition, and it's a neo-pagan tradition, which is an attempt to kind of recreate the pagan traditions of Europe.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot to say about that.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like we have our share of making stuff up and cultural appropriation, all that.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a real purity there, and there was for me.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I spent a lot of time in this world and became very, very passionate about magic, magic to start and transformational work as the kind of follow-on of that.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: See, to me, now transformational leaders, we're all magicians.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: And even in my community, I call us magicians, right?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm very, very passionate about magic and transformational work as a toolkit and a skill set for humanity.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I've spent a lot of time, I've devoted my life essentially to amplifying and legitimizing this work.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: And what I realized when I was on the journey of learning magic and being in this tradition was that part of my role in the world is to do what I think of as bring magic to the mainstream.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really been my directive for a long time.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: My conversion, so to speak, I'll use that word lightly, but my kind of entry into magical work was when I was 23.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I read a book.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: It was like that's a whole story in of itself.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a fun story, but I wasn't Wiccan before I read the book.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was Wiccan the minute after I read the book, that kind of thing.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I was 23, I was in New York City in the 90s, which is a fantastic place to be, an exploring magical person.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, in your early 20s.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: My number one concern, and one of the reasons why I wanted to give some of this background is that from the moment I stepped on the magical path, my number one concern was always, where are the sane people?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Where are the sane magicians?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that was the word I use.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of it's obviously a really imperfect word.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's not an appropriate word at this point.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: But that's what I was telling myself and when I was 23 years old.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, where are the people who are using this to make their lives better?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Where are the peeps who are embracing this religion called Wicca?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a number of different factions in magic, of course.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: So there's the magic practice, and there's also the religion.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I was attracted to both of them.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'm a goddess worshiper, like through and through.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: And where are the peeps who are legit?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I wanted at age 23.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that has been kind of a directive for a while.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to know who had their act together, who had the established lineage.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to connect with leaders even then.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Who has the goods?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: That was always my perspective.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I was very blessed to find them.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Not without my first experience finding a magical lineage was a complete disaster with some of the same elements that we're seeing here in this psychodrama, as Robin likes to say.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: But ultimately, and I was burned.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: So after my first experience, and again, I won't go down that rabbit hole, but again, I was like, where are the ones that know how to lead group work?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Where are the ones who actually have like legit careers and are trained?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And this was always my frame as far back as that.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the group I ended up find finding was a group called Proteus.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I had an incredible experience with them.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: And if you look at the history of Proteus, was started by a woman named Judy Harrow, who was a licensed social worker.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: And she was a part of the original Wiccan tradition, the Gardinarian tradition.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: So we can trace our lineage all the way back to Gardner in 1939 or whatever.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of twists and turns along the way.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, Judy, one of the things that she did is that she broke away from the Gardnarians because she was like, we need to update this for the 21st century.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Some of this stuff, like we need to actually add to it, and we we got kicked out of the crowd, essentially.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: We got kicked out of the club.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Bigger story.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm bringing it up because there was this integrity that she had, and there were also oaths that I took.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: I spent a lot of time thinking about like, how is it that I want to do this?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: And who do I want to learn from?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a fantastic experience with that, and it really set me up for everything else that was to come after, if that makes sense.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: The next piece of this that's important, I worked with Proteus, and then we we broke off from Proteus and we hived off, whatever it we say.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I worked with that group in that tradition from 2000 to 2009, and I had an incredible experience.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Another part of my background is that on the I guess the healing front, a big part of my life is attachment style.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I am in the avoid an attachment camp.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason why that's important, recovering, I've done a lot of work on it.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's been it's a whole, but it actually really feeds into this story in many ways because Betty was around for some of that, which we'll get to.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I tend to break away.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I will tend to like, I'm here until I'm out.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that put me in a place.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so five years later, so here I come from this very vibrant magical community in New York City, which I loved.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: And the people in it, I still love.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, I'm connected with them all and I talk them all out.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a long time since then.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: But at that time, I was in Portland, Oregon.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: My husband took me from New York City to Portland, which is where we were.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: I just had a baby.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was very much in the period of my business of figuring out what I wanted to say and who what I was a stand for and who I was and who my body at work and what my body at work was about.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted nothing more than to connect with really sane, I'll use that word again, magical people.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Enter spaghetti.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: So does that all make sense so far?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully that's not wasn't too much info, but I feel like that's a really important context.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: No, I think it's important to look at how mindful and intentional about this process you were.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_03: You weren't going about it haphazardly, throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that that really allows us to lean into the decision-making process that you went through, whether it was completely conscious or intuitively guided, it doesn't, whatever, as far as that goes, but also just the word that keeps coming to mind is mindfulness with which you undertook this.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: One thing that stands out to me too about what you shared is like you weren't coming from a place of I need somebody to tell me what to do, or I need somebody to guide me.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's more like I want to find the other people.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: So you're coming of like from this leadership place of wanting to co-create with other people, not you weren't looking for somebody who was all knowing or who that wasn't the vibe.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I will say though, that my bugaboo to, and I'm really appreciating that reflection because I think there's probably more of what you're speaking going on than what I was consciously aware of at the time is that I was in another sort of battle with another mentor, which I I'm kind of trying to figure out how I want to talk about because I don't want to go off the rabbit hole of that.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: But that's also related.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was questioning, like, who am I and what do I have to offer?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: I had some of that.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my big theme in life is power and authority.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I can absolutely get into these authority dances, but I also do it from a place of I know how powerful I am.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: I really do.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I always have.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's like on the good days.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: In my book, I talk, in my book, I talk about this a little bit.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's a part of my book called The Confidence Standard.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I talk about how we don't have a lot of confidence a lot of the time as really strong women.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: But if we clear that out, we know how badass we are.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: We know.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so there was a lot of that dance going on.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I wasn't looking for for someone to guide me and help me or whatever, but I was looking for those legit peeps.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so my bugaboo is if someone presents like that, I can easily, and I and the the boxes are ticked, then I can get on the train.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time, I thought it was a pretty good train to get on.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it was quite a while, quite a while before like I really started seeing problems.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I just want to name that as part of the process too.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really where I was.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I got this business, I got this baby, right?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like I had my my daughter was one year old at the time.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I was in this place of I just I need the community too.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: So Betty had been on my radar for a couple.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Of years at that point, actually.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'd seen her website and she was very magnetic.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: And how we actually got together is kind of funny because in hindsight, it just doesn't seem like something Betty would do, except maybe it is something that Betty would do.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: So what happened was I was connected with someone else.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I honestly can't even remember, like, she didn't stick around in my life.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it wasn't a friendship that ended up sticking.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: But we were like, we want to get together a little peer mastermind, which of course I don't recommend doing necessarily.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: But at the time, I was like, what if this, I know, this pure mastermind.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: And we were like, who else can we invite?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, there's this woman.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, just I kind of can't believe I did this.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I was like, there's this woman.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know her.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: But what if I call her up and invite her?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I did.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'd seen her website, I'd seen her body of work, I'd seen her writings, and I was really impressed.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I was also a little bit fascinated, and this is where I get into magical nerd territory, because I come from this real Western magic occultist background.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then over here we have the Ascensionists and the Light Workers.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always interested in the different lensings on basically, which is often the same path.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: And from my lensing, she was firmly in the Ascensionist light worker camp.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I hadn't had any real experience with those folks.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, what is this?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: This is kind of fascinating.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I called her up out of the blue.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, and amazingly she said yes.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I was really blown away by her presence.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: She had this confidence.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I, again, it's like, I know how confident I am, except when I'm not confident.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time I felt incredibly wobbly because I was destabilized from breaking away from this past mentor.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I have this one-year-old and I have this body of work that I'm trying to make sense of.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I apply my engineering mind to all my work.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I was doing at that time a ton of due diligence in the manifesting world.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I want to know how this stuff works.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: I want to know how it works from the laws perspective.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: I want to know how it works from the brain perspective and the subconscious perspective.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to know all of it.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: So all of this is going on.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: And we're in this little mini mastermind.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I am picking up what she's putting down because she's got a whole different way.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: At the time to me, it was a different way that I was like, that's totally my experience.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm on board with.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I choose to align myself with.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm putting it through the filter of all the things as I always do.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I was really, really drawn to just her teaching and her way of being.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I was also drawn to this is because I don't, I haven't heard this a whole lot on the series so far.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I was very drawn to her wealth consciousness and her manifesting ability.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: So at that time, she let it slip.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: So this is early 2014.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's my rem recollection of the time frame.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, Yeah, a couple of years ago, I decided I was gonna just start making my money work for me instead of working so hard for my money.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: And she's just saying this kind of like blasé, like, and I have all kinds of money drama at the time.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: I am like, I know how to make it and I can make a ton of it, but I don't know what the hell I'm doing with it and all of that.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I, it was in and out.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that of course made me feel like a fraud in some ways and all this nonsense in the coaching industry and all that.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: But she was just like, Yeah, so I just go out and I just do it.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I want that.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time, the story that she told, I mean, I don't know how accurate this is, but she was just getting into real estate investing, and she told the story of how she got into real estate investing.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, and like within months, according to her, she had several commercial properties.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like zero to whatever, a hundred in no time at all.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I am that is very much in alignment with what my spirit wants to do.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: I am very interested in the big I am unapologetic about the big leaps and the big score.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now, on the scaling side, you got to slow down to speed up.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: This is what we know.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I was very, very attracted to that.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, I want to know how to do that.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: But from the spiritual lensing and from the consciousness lensing, I wasn't actually going to her for business help or anything.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: So the little mini mastermind went on for a while until it didn't.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember this wasn't like a Betty Snake bite, but it was very much, she did get to the point.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: I was I was impressed with this at the time.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, what are we doing here?
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: And if we're not doing anything, then let's not do anything.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, okay, you're right.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how I ended up starting having sessions with her.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: And she was really helping me on the mindset stuff.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: And really, she was a spiritual teacher.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I was going for the spiritual stuff more than anything.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted the, for lack of a better word, the ascensionist magic.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to learn like what that was about.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I learned a lot by watching her and watching what she did and reading her stuff.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of like the where we were when some interesting things started to happen.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: And at that time, again, so that sort of takes us into like 2015.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: And there was some, that was a really, really pivotal time for me.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: I had been really bound up in my previous mentor who I'd gotten enmeshed with, and Betty was helping me with that.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: She was helping me kind of uncouple that.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say that my experience of that at the time, my work with her with that at the time, was generally pretty positive, except when, and I'm kind of jumping ahead again, long after I had kind of like dealt with it and was kind of wanting to move on, she was still very interested in finding this person in my energy, finding this person in my space, finding like bringing it back, like bringing the conversation back.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_03: Something is occurring to me.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_03: Lise, I want to run this past you as well, because something occurred to me, Elizabeth, as you were sharing the early decision making to step in and work with her, get to know her, that kind of thing.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: Kind of relates to where I was when I stepped in with her, doing a lot of good work in the world, but there was a lot of wobbles internally.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: There might have been some trauma that you hadn't processed through.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_03: There might have been some question marks about legitimacy, confidence, those kinds of things.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: And it reminds me of like a narcissistic dude sitting at the bar being able to track where's the wounded bird?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: That just came out of my mouth.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know if that's the best analogy, but there is something in this about her being able to track who's hurting and who's also very, very powerful at the same time.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: Does that make sense?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: I would, I would think that's incredibly accurate.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Especially if we like pull back and look at everyone who's in our world.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_03: We look at the the intelligent, confident, adept people with energetics already adept, even though we still had more things to learn.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: And then and then we look at the siphoning that probably began early on that we weren't even aware of was happening.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: We just knew that we were hurting, or I'm speaking all of us, I suppose at this point, hurting, or something that we thought she could help us with, but then it became more and more toxic as time went on.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Again, my frame was I want to know who's legit.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: I want to know who's real.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: And some of that, of course, was my own wobbles about not feeling legit and not feeling real when we know that that's just not accurate.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: So there's there's all of that kind of going on.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, I also had this insatiable curiosity.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to know.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I was also trying to decide too.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is really important.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think I was trying to decide which lane I was really gonna be in.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Another part of my story from way back and in business is that way, way back, when you get trained in Wicca, when you get trained in Protean witchcraft, you're basically expected there's a contract that you take on that you're gonna pass it on in some way.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I always knew that I wasn't gonna run a Wiccan coven.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't going to be a Wiccan elder per se.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: But there was this like, you're gonna bring that, you're gonna be part of the movement.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is what she said to me, is what the goddess said.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: She was like, You're gonna be part of the movement, not the only one, Elizabeth, not the only one.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: At the time, I thought it's all on my shoulders.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: But she was like, You're gonna be part of the movement to bring magic to the mainstream.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was looking for what is that really gonna look like for me at the end of the day?
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because I have both of these sides.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a metaphysical teacher and I'm really, really good at the metaphysical teaching.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm also really, really good at the offers and the messaging and the per using perception and perspective to create these big jumps.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, that's also magic has to have like a thing to work through.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: You can just do magic for the sake of magic, but I'm always about what's the outcome?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: What's the thing we're applying this to?
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: I was in this vulnerable spot of not feeling quite like I was good enough or that I had something amazing to offer, and that had been shipped away at as well by the by another mentor.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think she saw that because I wanted all the info and I wanted to be in her vibe to kind of like, I'm trying to test and see if I'm modeling her or not modeling her.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that was a perfect place for us to get started on the journey, you could say.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that lifelong love of learning and that insatiable quest for knowledge and understanding, the intellectual challenge of it, I think, is another piece of the puzzle that we can see as a theme that runs through all of our stories as well.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: And she wasn't the only one.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was doing work with the priestesses.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: I was about to step into my neurolinguistic programming training, which was with NLP Marin.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Again, to my mind, they were the legit, their incredibly well-respected tradition of neurolinguistic programming.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, again, looking for how's this all gonna come together?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: And which of these two sides am I really gonna kind of like be the public?
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, where's my lane gonna be in terms of making my programs and selling stuff and all of that?
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: So all of that's all the backdrop.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: And on top of this, motherhood, money ups and downs.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: And because motherhood was kicking up the attachment stuff, big way, big, big way.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: We can add marriage crisis on top of all that.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: So in 2015, there was like this bit of the honeymoon period, right?
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I started working for mid to end 2014 and early 2015.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: It was the start of the honeymoon period.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I was getting a lot out of it and I was learning and I was taking it all in and all of that.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the first turn, I would say, was a participation in an MLM company, and she recruited me.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I say that word recruit kind of lightly because it's like I said, yeah, I was all for it.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, let's do it.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: I was very excited.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: My husband less so.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was going through a Joel Osteen period at the time, and he was like, What?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Joel.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he's like, Joel Osteen is in my house now?
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm like, okay, so Betty's got this thing, and he's like, Amway, what is going on?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: I just remember it.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: He's uh he's so insupportive, and he's like, he trusts my judgment.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: If you need to do something, you're gonna do it.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_03: I just love that he was commenting on the Amway and the Joel Osteen at the same time, like simultaneously, you have these very contrasting perspectives coming through.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very much from what you know I do and who I am.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just really, I did.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: I went through this little Joel Osteen phase because there's actually a lot to learn from Joel, and there's a lot in the laws with Joel and all the things.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not a Joel Osteen fan anymore.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, at the time, those things were back to back, and he was like face palm at that time.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: So when she approached me with the opportunity, it was very much this like in crowd vibe that we all know so well.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think all of us have been pitched by Betty before.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I got the Betty pitch, and it's the very in-crowd.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm over here doing this awesome thing.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: But the way she would present it was always just very neutral.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: You can come over here or not, it doesn't matter.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: But if you want to be in the cool kids, come over here.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that was the first of my hesitancy around it, was the first of two snake bites.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: I've been tracking the snake bite thing, and I only got the snake bite twice.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the thing, and this is a piece that I wanted to speak to.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's no real great place for it to go.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll just I'll plant the seeds here.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: The reason why I only got the snake bite twice is because I have got no tolerance for the snake bite.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that comes from way before, years ago, when I was 14 years old, a very mean woman who had this reputation in my town that I was growing up in.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: And my best friend and I were working in her store after school, and she chewed me a new asshole in front of my best friend, 14 years old, completely humiliated.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember sitting in the car, and my best friend Beth is on the other side of me.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: We're Beth and Beth at the time because I went by Beth.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, no one will ever talk to me that way again.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Ever.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what I have since learned is that we can have a little more flex than that.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: That was like a real like hard bound, but there were many things I set up hard boundaries around.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Also, and this goes back to my witchcraft days.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: I set up a hard boundary at age 23 as I got on the magical path, more like 24 or 25, because I'd had that really bad experience in the first group I was practicing when I said, Goddess, I am not available for the nonsense.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a really good client.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: You want me as a client, and oh my goodness, magical groups, I'm gonna amplify you if I'm a part of your group.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I could see that, and I could see the pulling and the tugging from peeps who recognize that as well.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, we're already on, and I know when we're doing consciousness work and we're doing, we're drawn to what we do, what we all do here in the transformational leadership world, right?
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of us are in it because we have old wounds that we're healing.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: We want to help others get over what we got over.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm generalizing isn't the only thing, right?
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's part of why we're in it in the first place.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that is a real rife environment for shenanigans.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: And plus, and then you add like magic stuff on top of that.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: You add like Western esoteric thought.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I'm just not available.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: So 24 years old, I'm saying this.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I had two hard boundaries set up way beforehand that I believe really helped me.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: And one of them was you talked to me like that once, you never talked to me again.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: And the first snake bite, it was not a deal breaker snake bite, it was pretty close.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember I can just hear she was like, You're always looking, you're either looking for a way in or you're looking for a way out.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Are you looking for a way in?
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Are you looking for a way out?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: That was like her thing.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so finally I'm like, Yeah, I'll do it.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like to be, I had some wobble.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: I had natural wobble, and that's when the snack down came because I was really into the working with this for as long as we did, actually.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: There were a lot of things I enjoyed about the company, actually, irrespective of her.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd actually danced around it before with someone else approached me, whatever.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: When that snake bite happened, I was very, very upset.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: I remember going to bed and Leland's in bed spooning me, and I'm crying my head off.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing about it is I was like, I thought this person was like a friend.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: I know she's like at this point, she's still in mentor land, but we're not quite on colleague level yet.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I thought that she cared about me.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: So why is she talking to me like this?
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: And the husband doesn't forget stuff like that.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: He still remembers it to this day.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I think that's when the cognitive dissonance that was probably the first go-round of cognitive dissonance.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: I got over it.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: There was too much of the good stuff still going on.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: There was too much of the good stuff for me.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I also at that time was starting to learn that there's flex when people like there are people and they do things and sometimes they explode.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said yes, and onward we go.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't like there was a big downward spiral after that.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: We were still working together, she was still holding space, she was still incredibly smart about so many things.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: And she was helping me through nonsense with my other mentors, she was helping me understand my lineage, right?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Here we are going along our merry way.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: But there was that one first incident.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then in 2015, so there, so when I look at like the historical pieces, I want to name the things that stood out.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that was the first one, and then the second one came later in 2015.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because as I said, new baby, attachment dust up.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: And at that time, Leland and I didn't know what that was.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't know what that was.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: We had no idea.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: We just knew that we were in fight or flight 24-7.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we ended up getting support by the end of 2015.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: That was all going on.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm more proud of that than anything else.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like we really, I my NLP person rewired my attachment style.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: We did therapy, obviously.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: And within six months, there was a complete transformation.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then there was the recoding and the integrating.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's two reasons why that's important, vis-v Betty.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: Number one is that was when I started learning the modality.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: So until now, I had just been on the receiving end of the modality that she uses.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: That was when I was like, I gotta learn how to do this for myself.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: In August of 2015, I'm big on timelines.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like I keep track of the days and the stuff.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I know it's a little, maybe a little too in the weeds for some.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_03: No, I think it's really important to have this progression take place because really, as I said at the beginning, you know, this historical background is just a really important part of the story.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I want to really speak to the state I was in, because that's important, as you pointed out.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: So when we first got started, it was in the everything you said before, Robin.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: And now we're down the track a little bit.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: And Leland and I had a major crisis point in August of 2015.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, we need coaching.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: And he's no, we need therapy.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: I love Leland.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: I love him so much.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I was also like, because he's my partner.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: This is really important.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: We decided again, decisions I made well before she came into my life.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not divorcing this man.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: Period.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: When the bomb happened, we were like, we were all in on the bomb and figuring out what this is.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: The first part of that, it took about six months, and you two with your backgrounds will appreciate this, before I even we even knew what it was because we were so inflamed, anxious avoidance.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: That is a really hard thing on your nervous system.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you put a baby into the mix with that, so much so that we could barely uh communicate.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: And we didn't even know what it was until six months later.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a whole story.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need to tell that particular, it's pretty like, oh my God.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: But this is where we were.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: And at that time, and I was like, I need to learn this modality.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: This modality is gonna help me.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it sure did.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'll never forget the first time I practiced it.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: And very quickly, it replaced everything that I was really using.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say that that wasn't Betty, that was me and who I'm talking to.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I was so grateful.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: It helped me so much.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I learned more about the Ascensionists and I learned more about the light worker world, all that through all of this, which I just am inert about and find fascinating.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: But it really, really helped me.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: So there was this period of time, August 2015, before we even knew what attachment was where there was a lot happening.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that brings me to the second major what the with Betty turning point.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: She helped me through some of that stuff.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: But again, it's like I have real strong boundaries.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think part of me knew that she was not necessarily the safe space, especially after what I'm about to share here.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: And she also knew it's like this is the good part of the avoidant.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: Good part of the avoidant is don't mess with me.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: Don't you dare.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's the good side.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's a positive side.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: And all this time, my experience of her is really masterful in sessions.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: I was very, very impressed with the way that she could hold space and be neutral at that time.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: And she was very proud of how she was able to show up with people.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like she did.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: There was a neutrality, which is challenging to do as a practitioner, I think, at least for me sometimes.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: But she was able to really hold the space.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: And at that time, there were these little humans behumaning things, but that's kind of how I saw them most of the time.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: The snake bite thing was something else.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: But then this happened.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just say that.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess what I'm trying to say is I was receiving a great deal of support from her.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: And at the same time, my boundaries were in place consciously or unconsciously.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: She told me something about Leland in a past life.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that was that he'd killed me and all my family.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_03: So this was in response to your question, what's going on in my marriage?
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: Or I can't remember the context.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: I can't remember exactly how it happened.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_03: The bigger context is you and Leland are in crisis.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_03: You've got a little baby, you're trying to sort through all of the all of the layers of it, and suddenly she sort of swoops in and pinpoints this is part of the root cause, is my interpretation.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: I as best as my memory, I don't wanna, I don't want to speak out of turn because it was so long ago, but that that tracks, I'll put it that way.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: That tracks.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it also tracks with one of the patterns that I'm tracking, which is really now which is telling you about a trauma that is impacting you or was in your past that you're not aware of, and using that to traumatize you and reform a trauma bond with you.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for that insight.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you would know that.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: I would not know that necessarily.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: That explains a lot.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's exactly what happened.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: That is exactly what happened.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then she gets to swoop in and help you process the fact that your husband did that.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, just wait until I tell you what happens next.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: I will say though, I had real strong boundaries with her.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: I was interested in the magic.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was interested in her bl brand of magic and how it worked.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm a magician and I fucking love magic.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to know everything about it.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: But yes, that resonates as she might say to us if we were sitting here totally spot on.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: Let me back up a little bit and get back to my train of thought here.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: Take that in.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you, Elise.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's really, really useful.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: But here's what happened.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was at a very run vulnerable spot.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: We had not identified attachment stuff as the issue.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: So there was this period of time where it was every day.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: Every day.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: And we hadn't identified what it was.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: And our therapist, when it did finally come out what it was, I was like, I just I took her to task.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, why didn't you tell me?
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, I did.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: I did many times.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't hear her.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I was still in this inflamed place.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: So right after that happened, like the day that that news was delivered, I was like, I've got to call Wald.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I gotta do.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: Wald is my original magic teacher, uh Wald and Rosanna Amberstone of the Tarot School.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so funny, they're in New York and they stay up really late.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I knew they'd be around.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: I knew they'd be around.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I wasn't just calling him about that.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: So Tarot was my one of my modalities, really.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I put it down.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many amazing things about Tarot and the the Western magical history of Tarot and the occultist history of Tarot.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, and the way that Wald North Ann teach it is just so beautiful and symbolic and nerd for symbolism and all this.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, I gotta talk to Wald.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: And he was up in the middle of the night, as he always is.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I was processing a lot.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't just what had happened in this session with Betty, it was also the journey that he and I were on, which I don't talk about publicly a lot because it's not my place.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to say I'm being very careful as I share these bits of information to be out of respect for him.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: But what happened with Wall was I'm getting my thoughts together.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's okay.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_03: Take your time because I remember you were telling me this story about how one of from my memory, one of the reasons you called him was for perspective from somebody you trusted.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_03: And this goes to the larger context that Elise was referring to over the bringing forward a past life memory that you had no awareness of, creating trauma response, and then creating the trauma bond after.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_03: So when you talk to Walt, Walt said something very clearly to you, as I remember it.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he was like, why on earth did she tell her they'd tell you that?
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: What use was that?
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: What use?
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: Walt didn't know.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: Walt is an esotericist with you know 50 years of magical practice and everything, but he he's not thinking about the about the trauma bond stuff.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_03: No, of course.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_03: And and the thing that I think that Elise and I have both spoken into is this when you are trained as a counselor, when you are trained as a therapist, early on, we were taught you don't bring stuff up that the client doesn't bring up first.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_03: What is the point of this?
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_03: And given Betty's alleged background in that space of social work, one would expect that she would have a similar ethos to that.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_03: But clearly in this case, that was not something that was taken into consideration.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: And the way that she would always frame it is that there was she was always checking before revealing information.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: But that's very different than the two of you.
• 48:18
  unknown: Yeah.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: And oh, how convenient that is.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I never made that connection before.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks to both of you because I was just like, and I was talking to Wald about a lot of things at that time because at but at that time we hadn't identified what the problem was.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: It hadn't come out.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was solid six months of him and I on the path before the opening in the brain was able to let in what was really going on.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: But he was just like, what was the point?
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't have a good answer for him.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: How did you like kind of reconcile that within your own mind?
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because obviously then you continued on working with her.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, I shut, I was like, I was like consciously or unconsciously, because I don't remember telling myself this, but I was like, this person cannot be trusted with my relationships.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: I was not letting her anywhere near my daughter in terms of any questions about any of that, parenting or whatever.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: What I wanted from Betty was the magic.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: I love magicians who are really good magicians.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I always am wanting to up my game.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the modality that we found to me was mind-blowing.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that was kind of what kept me on the path, so to speak.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: And also, I will say that's when I started to notice things about her relationships that seemed odd.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Namely, she didn't have any, as far as I could see.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: Elise, go ahead.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, someone is smiling over there.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: This is like kind of my wheelhouse, right?
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: The whole relationship thing.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: I know you're seeing a bunch of stuff that I didn't even know about.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: It is a red flag, right?
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember even thinking about that from my own perspective when I started working with her much later on, and even just looking at the way she would talk about her relationship with her husband, or just the way she would talk about the way she related to people in general, to me, felt odd.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a good word for it.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it felt odd.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it all of it made me feel uncomfortable.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't even know how to describe it, but it's just like everything just felt like it was somehow spun in this way to make her seem like she was somehow superior to everybody that she was relating to, but also in this way where I'm like, like something tells me you don't have a group of girlfriends that you drink wine with.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: Something tells me you probably don't have that.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know what I mean?
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like where I was just like, I couldn't conceptualize a relationship that she would have that I would relate to or fully understand beyond just like the mentorship relationships.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: I will that absolutely tracks.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny that you mentioned that because I remember in those in those early days, I was looking for that in her.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: I was kind of consciously or unconsciously looking for these signals that there was kind of more than just this one mentorship role.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't see a lot.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_03: That's what happens when you've got somebody who's low on empathy, psychopathic or sociopathic, is that they can present as charismatic, as knowledgeable, as well adjusted, we'll say.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_03: But when it comes down to the capacity to experience empathy, to walk around in somebody else's shoes, to have any kind of deep-seated emotional intelligence where you understand other people's emotions and I'll use the word empathize with them.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_03: That was markedly absent as I look back and I look at that neutrality that we're we talk about, but when I look at it from a like a clinical perspective, the people who are neutral are actually low on empathy.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_03: Not always.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I can be neutral as well.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, I totally get what you're saying.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like the connections are coming together because divine neutrality is really friggin' awesome when you have empathy to go with it.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'll say too, when I teach how to hold a neutral space when you're as a practitioner, that comes from empathy.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's grounded in empathy because you are wanting to create a space where someone feels safe to heal.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_03: So you can put your shit aside to create that neutral space, but it's not because you don't have any feelings, not because you lack compassion, not because you simply cannot have the time for other people's emotions or emotional experiences.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll tell you what, and Robin, you know this, so you've done my Neo.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: The reference point I had at the time was Strengths Finder.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: My number one on the Strengths Finder is empathy.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, there you go.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember at the time it was Fabian Frederickson who I did it with.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll never forget this.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, empathy, what's that?
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: That sucks.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: Raba.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I was not on a group call.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: And she was so cute.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: She was like, All right, so while you're boohooing over there, let me just tell you that this is like the number one emotional intelligence and sales power skill on the planet.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_03: When we look at the Neo, of course, all of these other assessments, including Strengths Binder, which was one of my favorites for a long time, can be mapped into those big five personality factors.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I have, of course, given so many of us the Neos at this point.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone scores high on emotions, which is the capacity to and understanding of your emotions and other people's emotions.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_03: But when we get somebody like Betty into the mix, very, very clearly, there is a lack of that.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very much so.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I believe actually, because we're so empathetic, that we just naturally assume that the person who we're working with is going to be equally so.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: 10,000%.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: And if we're not resourced and if we're compromised in any way, right?
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because at that time, what was going on in my house every day was you were compromised.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I was totally compromised.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I've been compromised, Elisa's been compromised, and that's when the antisocial, the psychopathy comes into play with somebody like that.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's that I'll call it the snake energy.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, there's my snake bite right there.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: But Wald was like, why on earth did she tell you that?
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: What was the point, Elizabeth?
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: What was the point?
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_00: And again, what I was there for was the magic.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: My perception was in the ascensionist world, which is a world I don't know.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm over here in Western magic.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you didn't mess with me over there.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: I either know the stuff or I know someone who does.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: But over here in this other like interesting little realm that I'm like light worker, what is that?
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the apprentice, except not because I've got all of this history.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so let's move forward into the next like salient event, the next thing that really kind of marks the milestone of your relationship with Betty.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was very much taken in by her modality, and I decided to learn her modality and to learn it well and to do it.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it really took over, and it's okay.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_00: It still is like that.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: Was the one gift that she gave me.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's lots of gifts and learning and stuff, but that was the like the relationship I had with that modality was and remains real.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_03: The technology is the technology.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: The technology is the technology, and she was real good at teaching the technology, I gotta say.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I went on to do that, teacher training all around there.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: And also at the same time, so there's parallel journeys.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm on a parenting journey.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: Leland and I are on our journey of healing our attachment style and and really healing our marriage and staying together and everything.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I was also on the journey of my business and what like all the things.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like one of the reasons why I was I wanted to absorb all the magical modalities is because I wanted to know like, where's my where am I landing here?
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: What's my body work?
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: I started like learning all of that, right?
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that went on.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: So by now we're up to about 2016.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: Between 2016 and 2018, or like kind of the golden Betty years.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I was learning all the things and I was going through this transition in my own life.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: Another important part of this is that I was downloading my own major body of work.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was transitioning into what I do now, which is the offers and messaging on the one side and highest level frequency on the other side.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: And my modality for that is my body of work called the standards.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I was downloading the standards and I was downloading stuff that was going to go into my book and all of that and getting it out there for the first time.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things I will say around this time is I'm like, you're not a business mentor.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: So you just like she tried to carry both roles.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, no, at least not from my lensing.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not going there.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not, we're not doing that.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: So by the time I got through my kind of training with her on the modality and that kind of stuff, I was starting to feel full.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I was also kind of at the tail end, not the tail end of the of the marriage journey.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_00: There was a lot that went on after that and continues to this day.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_00: But around, I would say 2018, and there was no cutting off.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: There was no like, I'm out of here.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_00: In Betty's world, you're kind of always in the client base.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I'd stopped the private work with her sometime in 2018 or early 2019, I would say.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: And by that time, I was trained in her modality.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was teaching her modality.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was in love with the modality, doing it all day, every day.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_00: Around that time, there was this real major turning point in 2019.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: All of the dregulation from the attachment work that we'd done, because we know, like you two know, attachment stuff, that is just nervous system on fire all day, every day.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_00: Her last, what I would say, kind of big body of work that I participated in was like a mastery level of her modality.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that I participated in that in 2019.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that was really kind of the last kind of major thing that I did.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that brings us up to 2020.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: 2020.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_03: Let's rock and roll.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_00: All the 2020s.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that really kind of dovetails with a lot of what you all have covered in other places spaces interviews.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't really need to do a whole big deep dive.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_00: So there was no breakup or anything like that and lockdown.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: I remember March walking around in my old neighborhood.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: And by this time, Lila and I are solid.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_00: I got this beautiful child, and all is pretty well, except for what is about to happen on the world stage.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember her talking about it and giving me all the intel because even early on, she was starting to bring in information from other places and spaces and other things.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: And her guides are telling her this and her guides are telling her that.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I will tell you at those the beginning, I was eating it up because a lot of it was new to me.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of it was like, this is like light worker stuff.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't like occultist magician stuff.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: This is a whole other world I'm not really familiar with even now, different side of it.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_01: Can you give us an example of what she was saying that you were eating up?
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: She had the intel from the start about the pandemic and the secret forces and what was really going on.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I was hearing about it all on Boxer.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_03: 20-minute boxers.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_03: What were we talking about?
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's only a 15-minute limit, Robin, on Boxer.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_03: I wasn't well because I've never gone beyond 10.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but already we're starting to talk about the dark forces on the planet, the deep states and the Luciferians and that whole scene.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: And the way she's talking to me, because by this time I've started to break off as a client.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_00: So now we're on peer-to-peer level a little bit, and there's that kind of energy going on back and forth.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm teaching her stuff, and I've got like people in my world to be in her world.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_03: So you're referring people to her.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_03: Is that how that yeah?
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: By that time, I started teaching her modality, which I felt very passionate about.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I still feel this way.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone needs to have this.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: This is the direct line.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is the shortest, fastest path.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like I that was my experience.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, all my people need to hear this.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_00: You need to have this.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so I started just teaching the level one.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's all I taught.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's all I really cared.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: I did all the rest of the getting certified and everything, but I just want people to have this ability.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_03: And because let's be honest, the level one training was the cornerstone and the best training.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_03: And then after that, it sort of was average.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this was kind of the milieu for quite a bit of time.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I won't go too far into this piece.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like the breakaway was more important than this.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_00: But the key pieces are so right now I'm teaching her stuff.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now we've got this kind of like more of a peer relationship, but she doesn't quite, she's not quite ready to do that.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I wanted to ask you about that.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_03: She used to say to me, and I think Elise, she said this to you too we wear multiple hats.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's so great that we can talk about these things, or we can, she would talk shit about other people in the field or whatever.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_03: And it always under the kind of umbrella of we wear different hats.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_03: And in this case, I want to give you the behind the scenes and my perspective on Susie over here and Patty over there, whatever.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_03: So it became this sort of in-group and a really, really special sort of coveted position, even though perhaps we each independently thought we were the only one.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_03: There was a whole crew who were sort of in that space, it seems like.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I also knew because I was just like, she's sitting here talking smack about everybody to me.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: So she's talking smack about me to everybody else.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I just know that.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_00: I had a lot going on at that time, just a lot of like nervous system overwhelm.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, there was the in-group and the out group.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_00: And at that time, I had started to two things I think were significant at that time.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: One, she had a program where she would do these kind of weekly debriefs of what was going on in the world and all the dark forces and how they were operating.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_00: And because we were teachers of her modality, we were all in her little in-group too.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_00: There was all kinds of energies flying around.
• 1:02:22
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_01: I remember too, like she immediately put me in that teacher's group, even though I never went through the training.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember always feeling so weird about it because I was like, I'm not teaching this.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_01: Even when she would like, whatever, I don't want to go off on a tangent, but I just found it weird.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_01: I just felt like she wanted me there.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: The reason why I'm having this reaction is because rewind the clock way back to the late 90s when I'm in my first Wicca tradition.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that's exactly what the leader would do.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_00: She would elevate people to fourth degree.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's ridiculous.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's no my path to second in the Proteus tradition took years.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_00: We took these oaths.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like Judy created very strong oaths that basically said, you will not use magic against another person without their permission.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you're not going to train anyone who would.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it got her kicked out of the club.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_00: Her ethics and her integrity was just like, that's why I was attracted to her.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I entered her world coming from another magical group where they were just elevating left and right.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_03: I almost feel it was like for optics as well.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_03: So that the group was bigger and that there were people in there, appeared to be people in there.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_03: And yet, on the other hand, periodically she would go in there and sort of do the finger pointing.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're not going to teach this, you need to excuse yourself from this group and everything.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_03: Where perhaps, like with you, Elise, you didn't even ask to be in it in the first place.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't ask to be in it.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_01: I never wanted, I knew that modality before, right?
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I never felt drawn to like do it with her or teach it.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_01: I have my own modality to teach.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't what I wanted to do.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it was just like weird.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_01: But then at the same time, I didn't want to decline.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I just did.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it was, yeah, I think it was also for optics too.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's like we could have a whole other two-hour conversation about that whole way of doing things.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_03: So as we progressed through this is five years ago now, by the way.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_00: So now we're at about, yeah, 2021, etc.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_00: At that point, I was teaching her level one to my clients because I wanted them to have the modality.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_00: That was really my big, my big thing.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I was happy to be part of the in-group and the teachers group.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_00: Let's be clear.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: Even going way back 25 years ago, my question was always like, where are the pagans who are operating at a high level?
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_00: There weren't a lot of them.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_00: I found my way to a group that was right.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that's probably not being very generous.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_00: I take that back.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_00: But it was like, I that was always my criteria.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that's part of kind of what kept me in it because I saw all the people that were a part of this world and a part of the modality and teaching the modality.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, of course.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things that we've always said she's been great at is gathering the spiritually intelligent leaders together.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really what I was in it.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I started teaching it to my own people, of course.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when the gossip about my clients started, when she would come back and tell me the various bad behavior.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the bad behavior.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_03: How did you take that?
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_03: Because I know when I would hear that from her, I would internalize that and think, am I misreading this person?
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_03: Or she doesn't act like that with me.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_03: What's going on there?
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_00: I was definitely still in a state of nervous system overwhelm.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: After the attachment work and stuff with Leland, I mean, I had a whole panic attack situation and then I had a whole bunch of recalibrating to do.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I was pretty compromised, I would say.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_03: So it's probably just more information that just came.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: Came through your field that I thought it was odd.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_00: She just would come to me with stuff that my clients had done and she would tell me what they had done.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like tattling on them?
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_00: And this sort of like in confidence thing.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I straight up, I probably didn't handle that very well.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm kind of feeling into it.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of like, what did I do and why and who and where?
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_00: I also am just like, again, my kind of avoidant self can only handle so much drama.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's also a little shocking.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm reflecting on when I was in that position.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember kind of being in sort of like a freeze state where like I felt like I was literally just like standing there frozen.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_01: She's telling me this thing that doesn't feel true to me, but also telling me like I should fire this person.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm like, but I'm not gonna do that.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_01: But it was just like this kind of frozen state of like, what?
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_00: Hilariously, she wouldn't say that to me.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_00: That would trigger Elizabeth's hardline avoidant boundaries.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I started to notice the pattern and I probably didn't handle it very well.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_00: And there's that persuasive technique of the of the colluding and the I'm telling you this and creating this little in-group thing.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of started to break away from her, but I was pulled in when the pandemic happened, and all the stuff, all the intel that she was putting down during the pandemic.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_00: And during that time, I started teaching her modality.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_00: And there's all this stuff going on.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's when the gossip about my clients started.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where I just go kind of in hindsight, because I love the modality and I should have probably should have tried to find another way.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I also really loved the way that she taught it.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I love like how kind of direct it was and everything.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_03: Unless there's anything else in between this, but one of the things that I wanted to have you talk about is when she hired you.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's the next thing on my list here, too.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so let's go there.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because yeah, there was this long stretch of time where that was kind of the dynamic.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_00: There was that like in-group dynamic, and we had the teachers' group, and we had all the things that was going on, and all of the intel about the world that was being shared, and I'm sitting here trying to process this and all of that.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it was in early 2023.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_00: So before the avatar, let's say, made its appearance.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's so generous that you would give it that name.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, I'm probably misusing that word.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_00: Dial it back.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_01: What do we want to call it?
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_01: What do we want to call it instead?
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to know what my term is.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to say it.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_01: We'll just call it the thing.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_02: The thing, the thing.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_03: We can be generous and call it the entity, I suppose.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_03: Or the walk in.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_00: We've also been referring to it as the walk-in, but the only thing I'll say before I move on, because that that's when things really speed speed up.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_00: 20, I was out by early 2024.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that year 2023, I'd also really pulled back.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_00: But the modality, I will name this, the modality that she taught me changed my life and is one of the things that kept us in the loop.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, the community, all of you.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_00: I had heard the stories about Elise and what she was doing.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, I knew what you were doing, Robin.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I like I knew all the different people in the world, right?
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I was also just so overwhelmed with my own life at that time.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_00: I have this daughter and I have this husband, and we have all this stuff going on.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sitting here just trying to track as best I can.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the modality had me, right?
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_00: But fast forward to early 2023, and she hired me.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_03: Did that come out of the blue or had that been kind of building for a while?
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I didn't know this.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't think it was out of the blue, and I've kind of blocked a lot of it out.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been all over the place here, so I'm trying to come back.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_00: At that time, that the industry changes had started by then.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_00: So there were a lot of freakouts because there weren't as many signups and not as much happening by that time.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_00: And my thing is offers and messaging.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_00: There was something that I did in the business that got her that, you know.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, she ended up hiring me.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was the messaging.
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she wanted stuff on the messaging, but I'm trying to think of what I was offering and oh no, no, I'm sorry, with the inbox doing everything in Messenger rather than on phone calls and things like that.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_03: I think that might have been part of it.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna say what I want to tell you about that because it's gonna be too revealing.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_00: But oh yes, please.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, follow up until you later.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, no, in terms of like confidentiality and names and things like that, I'm gonna dial it back.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_00: But no, she was already in that, I'll put it that way, by that time.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, she basically uh hired me to help her with her offers and her messaging.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I was really intimidated.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna lie.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_00: But it just goes to show how the dynamic that was in play.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_03: She told me that before I parted ways with her in 2024, that she had hired you.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_03: And it shocked me because she is always presented with she gets all of her information from the guides.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like that has been across the board, whether it's the information about what was going on in 2020, whatever, was always positioned to me like it was stuff that she downloaded from the guides.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_03: There were no human beings who were feeding her information or anything like that.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_03: I've since discovered, obviously, that is not true.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_03: So when you when she said that she hired you, I was, it just took me by surprise.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_03: So, what was that like having her as a client?
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was impossible.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, here's the thing I'm gonna be real transparent about my work.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I work with people's offers and their messages, messaging.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's really fiddly and kind of brain drain until you get it.
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_00: And what I have found is that peeps who are at a certain level, they might be in pain and they might hire you to get out of pain, but they don't want to back up the truck enough to make the change.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_00: If someone's already at 300K and I'm like, no, we gotta stop and slow down and figure out your messages, and this is gonna be like kind of like a four-month painful process, they don't want to hear that.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Is the is the bottom line.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely went into some people pleasing mode.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_00: By that time, she was firmly kind of like in the I was, I was definitely in the power over, power under.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I was and I would say in a compromised position, let's put it that way, while at the same time trying to navigate the things.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I the thing had not appeared yet, but it was on the way.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_03: For sure it was on the way.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_03: There were already signs that it was rolling in, like a friggin' tsunami.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_00: So the bottom line is that she was really challenging to coach, and she basically people will have their own process and they'll kind of so it was it was short and kind of painful, and it wasn't fruitful for either of us, I would say.
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_00: But it also shook my confidence because I'm like, when you come in here and you follow the process and you listen to me on offers, you get the outcome.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, what's your problem if you can't help her?
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Also, I just want to know, too, like as far as the difficulties in working with her, was it the typical thing that we would imagine of her making you wrong?
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Or what was the problem, or why was it so challenging?
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_00: I always got the feeling that no matter what I did or told her, it wasn't good enough.
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_00: The perfectionism.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want to get your offers down, it's a skill set.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_00: And for better or for worse, I teach the skill set.
• 1:13:19
  SPEAKER_00: I teach you how to listen to what your people are saying, I teach you how to step into the person and unpack what's really going on.
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not just here to spit out the copy.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're intimidated and someone clearly you can tell someone doesn't really want to do that, they they kind of have expected it to be way easier.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_00: I will say that the offer stuff, if you put in six months of time learning the skill, if you're talking to someone who's a certain further certain place and space already, and they're kind of locked in their ways, and I don't mean this in any no shade, and this isn't just her, it can be very hard to back up the truck and do that work.
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_03: For sure.
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it was really challenging.
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why, like, my perfect person in our business is someone who's right at that six-figure mark who hasn't really settled on a thing yet.
• 1:14:02
  SPEAKER_00: But it didn't end well, and that was like the start of the real break between her and I.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:14:08
  SPEAKER_03: So then October rolls around, October 2023.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_03: Elise and I are in Santa Fe.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_03: The thing, the entity walks in and And Elizabeth goes, That is bullshit.
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Can you walk us through that a little bit?
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because you were more of an observer in the sense because you weren't there.
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think Robin and I got really sucked into the energy and the narrative because we were there, but you were just watching.
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_01: So what was your other than that's bullshit?
• 1:14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what was kind of your process and thoughts around it?
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And she asked me to go on those retreats.
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't conscious at the time.
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_00: I was just like, I got all this shit going on with Leland and Bridget, you know what I mean?
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_00: But of course, unconsciously, I knew the score because here was the disconnect for me.
• 1:14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Here was the like just I will say this one little nugget.
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_00: The thing was being presented as the divine feminine.
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_00: And if there's one thing that I know, the name of my business, babe, seven figure goddess.
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that caused major.
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, I've been a witch for 30 years, and I've been a priestess for 30 years.
• 1:15:14
  SPEAKER_03: No, no.
• 1:15:14
  SPEAKER_03: What were the signals that told you it was off?
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_00: I will just say that what that put me in was major cognitive dissonance.
• 1:15:22
  SPEAKER_00: I just really want to name that.
• 1:15:23
  SPEAKER_00: You can hear it even as I tell the story.
• 1:15:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm right back there.
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_00: As you know, as we talk about, like you're trying to navigate all of these forces, both within yourself and without.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_00: You're trying to navigate the making sense of it.
• 1:15:37
  SPEAKER_00: You're trying to navigate what's happening.
• 1:15:39
  SPEAKER_00: And there was a lot of that for me at the time for that four-month period.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, this is where I'm, I was real grateful that my avoidant kicked in because I'm like, EBS, it's backing up the truck.
• 1:15:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was heartbreaking because there was nothing divine feminine about it.
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, a lot of the same things that you and others have spoken about in this beautiful forum that you've created was very much in alignment with what I was finding.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, it's like there's no love here.
• 1:16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have like interactions with her after she came back from the Santa Fe retreat?
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have like conversations or anything like that?
• 1:16:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, we had broken up on the biz side, because the biz piece was in April of 2023.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_00: If I recall correctly, I may not be remembering properly.
• 1:16:28
  SPEAKER_00: But if I recall correctly, the work that we had done together was done by the time she came back.
• 1:16:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember on the other side of the Santa Fe retreat, her commenting probably in one of my private sessions about how Elizabeth hasn't bothered to reach out to even get to know.
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, she said that many times.
• 1:16:46
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, I think there's a thing that happens where when she knows that somebody is sussing her out, she will preemptively create a narrative around it.
• 1:16:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I saw her do that with you because she said, I don't remember where at this point.
• 1:17:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember if it was in private or wherever, but she was like, Elizabeth is not whatever the narrative was about how you weren't gonna receive it or whatever, you wouldn't, you weren't gonna understand, or you were gonna be against her, or that type of narrative.
• 1:17:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's just interesting that she preemptively created the narrative because she knew what your reaction was gonna be.
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm sorry, that's not no.
• 1:17:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is where just to move the story along, I'm like, Leland, help.
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_00: And he remembered all the way back in 2015.
• 1:17:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I don't even know what the fudgeinators to make of this.
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then I started seeing my language in her stuff.
• 1:17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us more about that.
• 1:17:49
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be real careful here because the whole copying IP thing is a way I've held myself back.
• 1:17:56
  SPEAKER_00: I have not, it's not the first time I've had IP kerfuffles with people.
• 1:18:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just put it that way.
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a fantastic link into all my own programming and patterning.
• 1:18:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't want to speak too much of it, but there are particular parts of my work.
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I'm not, I don't want to say too much so we don't get into specifics that are identifying.
• 1:18:16
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a certain piece that I teach about that she started talking about that I'd never heard anyone else talk about but me in seven years.
• 1:18:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, mm-mm.
• 1:18:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I was just like, back it up, back it up, back it up.
• 1:18:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I did a lot of processing as I often do on my own with this and with Leland, and I felt very, very isolated.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it was good three months of navigating this, navigating.
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_00: And this is she's ensconced in my stuff, and I'm never teaching her stuff again.
• 1:18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And there was all of that.
• 1:18:44
  SPEAKER_00: These are details that I ended up working out.
• 1:18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I started seeing my like my language and her things.
• 1:18:50
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I don't want to put that's the thing that I have, so I don't want to put too much weight on it.
• 1:18:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's a pattern, it's the pattern because each of us have had the experience of seeing something that for me, I would have a session with her privately about what the angle I was gonna take or the perspective I was gonna take in my copy, and then the next thing I would know, the exact language that we used in my session would show up in her work.
• 1:19:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there was a summit that Elise had the whole the whole name of it that suddenly appeared on the scene.
• 1:19:21
  SPEAKER_01: She then took my name and created a summit out of it, and she did the same thing to Andrea.
• 1:19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Andrea had a program called something, and then she took that name and made it into a whole she made that name her whole brand.
• 1:19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I had a I mean, my body of work is called the standards.
• 1:19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, okay.
• 1:19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, so anyway, yeah.
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Anywho, moving, but I was starting to bat, and Leland is the one.
• 1:19:47
  SPEAKER_00: I this is where I started to get isolated because this is the avoidance kicking in, and I'm isolating myself from you.
• 1:19:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know you yet, but I was isolating myself from everybody.
• 1:19:57
  SPEAKER_03: And Betty was promoting that as well.
• 1:19:59
  SPEAKER_03: So let's divide and conquer.
• 1:20:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's in-group, out group.
• 1:20:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you were doing that for the reasons that you would do that, and also there were forces outside of you who are also contributing to the isolation as well, I will say.
• 1:20:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sitting here thinking about my clients because I'm not happy because I did.
• 1:20:17
  SPEAKER_00: I taught, I taught her level one, and a lot of my people went through it.
• 1:20:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's a whole we could have a whole second conversation about that.
• 1:20:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I will just say for the record, though, that that was like, and the gossiping and the all of that is just but fast forwarding to where we are, I'm doing my breakaway, and this was at the end of 2023, into 2020, beginning of 2024.
• 1:20:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I did a lot of processing with Leland about it, and he still he just remembered, he remembered holding me while I'm crying my eyes out for a snake bite time.
• 1:20:46
  SPEAKER_00: The trauma, yeah.
• 1:20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:20:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so finally, you never plan these things, but I was like, I saw my opening and I poked the bear.
• 1:20:55
  SPEAKER_00: How'd you poke the bear?
• 1:20:57
  SPEAKER_00: I saw something and then I that she posted and I immediately posted about it.
• 1:21:03
  SPEAKER_00: She basically posted something that was an idea of mine, and I immediately posted or that I always talked about.
• 1:21:09
  SPEAKER_00: I immediately posted it back.
• 1:21:11
  SPEAKER_00: And sure, she was in my box in two minutes.
• 1:21:13
  SPEAKER_01: You posted the same post?
• 1:21:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, I can't remember.
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_00: I can't hold on to the details, but it was it was like I saw something that she posted, and I was like, first of all, that's one of my ideas, and I'm gonna come right in here and post something that I know is going to get a rise out of her.
• 1:21:30
  SPEAKER_00: That was the important piece.
• 1:21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and then she messaged you immediately.
• 1:21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, sure enough.
• 1:21:36
  SPEAKER_03: It was like three, two, meanwhile, she was messaging me about all of this behind the scenes, giving me a behind the scenes look of what was going on with Elizabeth.
• 1:21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Behind the scenes, yeah, Miss Elizabeth.
• 1:21:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that really led to the set, this sort of the snack and snake bite called be competitive.
• 1:21:55
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the thing, I was taking her stuff when she was taking my stuff.
• 1:21:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and I was like, baby doll, you know I've been through that before.
• 1:22:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know I see through that one.
• 1:22:05
  SPEAKER_03: Interestingly, simultaneously to that, it within the same month that was January of 2024.
• 1:22:12
  SPEAKER_03: Elise got the same message.
• 1:22:14
  SPEAKER_03: You're competing with me.
• 1:22:16
  SPEAKER_03: You're copying me.
• 1:22:17
  SPEAKER_03: I got the same message, you're competing with me, you're trying to be me.
• 1:22:21
  SPEAKER_00: And here's one of the creepiest things that she said to me in the breakup or in this chewing me out or whatever.
• 1:22:27
  SPEAKER_00: We're not as bonded as I thought.
• 1:22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 1:22:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, you know what?
• 1:22:33
  SPEAKER_00: No, mama, don't play pledge allegiance to the magic teacher.
• 1:22:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the elder now.
• 1:22:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was the elder before I knew you.
• 1:22:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'm dying, I'm dying over here.
• 1:22:44
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 1:22:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, no, you you're not.
• 1:22:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's no turning of the tables.
• 1:22:48
  SPEAKER_00: I know who I am as a Western magic practitioner, and I know who I am at age 50 plus.
• 1:22:56
  SPEAKER_00: We're just not, we're not playing that game as a priestess who knows the divine feminine.
• 1:23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Are you kidding me?
• 1:23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 1:23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-uh.
• 1:23:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that was it.
• 1:23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And the beautiful thing about avoid an attachment, which I the thing I treasure is that we can hit the eject button real fast.
• 1:23:12
  SPEAKER_03: And you did.
• 1:23:12
  SPEAKER_00: You were like, And I did.
• 1:23:15
  SPEAKER_00: My process with this piece is that I will go through a very long process and I will do all my processing before hitting the eject button.
• 1:23:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I had done about five or eight, six months of processing or however it was, maybe four, whatever it was, before hitting the eject button.
• 1:23:29
  SPEAKER_00: But when the eject button is hit, the eject button is hit and we're done.
• 1:23:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it was really heartbreaking.
• 1:23:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I wrote her a note and I wrote, which you probably read and saw, and she Oh, I got the whole thing.
• 1:23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 1:23:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I wrote everyone else a note and I tried to be as neutral as possible.
• 1:23:47
  SPEAKER_00: You did beautifully.
• 1:23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:23:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was very proud of the note because and I got support from one of my team members, Marianne, who's been on our team for many years and is very dear to me and is definitely like an advocate and just amazing human.
• 1:24:02
  SPEAKER_00: She helped me write it, and we in no uncertain terms laid out the deal.
• 1:24:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I wish you well.
• 1:24:09
  SPEAKER_00: This is the response I got.
• 1:24:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then I had to do the cleanup work of uncoupling all of her stuff from our stuff and all of that.
• 1:24:18
  SPEAKER_00: But that was really it.
• 1:24:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then I will say what happened.
• 1:24:22
  SPEAKER_00: There's one other piece to this that happened before the big bust up.
• 1:24:28
  SPEAKER_00: I had asked the goddess, I said, I said, Goddess, stuff's happening and I need to break free from illusions.
• 1:24:34
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to shatter every last illusion that I'm holding on to that is not in my purest and highest good.
• 1:24:40
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to show me all the places I'm deluding myself.
• 1:24:43
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to reveal the people who need to be revealed.
• 1:24:45
  SPEAKER_00: I I mean, I'm like divine love with capital DL.
• 1:24:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna still love the shit out of you.
• 1:24:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I still love her.
• 1:24:51
  SPEAKER_00: I still love her.
• 1:24:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, you gotta show me, show me.
• 1:24:55
  SPEAKER_00: And boy, did she ever.
• 1:24:56
  SPEAKER_00: And she's, I said, you need to, I need to break out of the illusion, which is was her whole, her whole jam.
• 1:25:03
  SPEAKER_00: That was her whole jam with the modality that we learned.
• 1:25:06
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm gonna have to go here in just a moment.
• 1:25:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I know that you have some lessons and some insights from your learning together, but before I go, I wanted to fast forward to after I left.
• 1:25:19
  SPEAKER_03: This was after Croatian, I came back.
• 1:25:21
  SPEAKER_03: You were one of my first people who I, you and Elise both were some of my first people who I reached out to, who I trusted.
• 1:25:29
  SPEAKER_03: So can you just speak to that just for a couple of moments from your perspective?
• 1:25:34
  SPEAKER_03: What was that like to hear?
• 1:25:36
  SPEAKER_03: It was a huge relief.
• 1:25:37
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I was, I don't want to say protected because it was just there were things, structures in my life and in my magical practice that I'd already set up that kept me out of a lot of what you two experienced, especially you, Robin.
• 1:25:51
  SPEAKER_00: But it was heartbreaking to have to leave this community that I loved so much and the people in it.
• 1:25:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I really felt, and some of this is the avoidance, and some of this is my own stuff, but I felt like I was I was over here and I had just lost this big part of my life.
• 1:26:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it was such a relief when you and I started talking about it.
• 1:26:13
  SPEAKER_03: I just remember us sitting and comparing notes, and I remember taking you through kind of the journey that I had been on and having both your support and your affirmation and insights and genuine friendship that I really believe had been sort of there was a wedge between us all those years, and we know who the wedge was.
• 1:26:38
  SPEAKER_03: And now that that was removed, all of a sudden now we've this this has opened up in a really beautiful way that I couldn't have it's beautiful because it's like it's opened up between the two of them.
• 1:26:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I've always been, I mean, I remember when you did my neo assessment and I was just like I'm crying from happiness afterward because it revealed so much, and I'm drawn and connecting to the women who actually have the goods.
• 1:26:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:26:59
  SPEAKER_00: Always what I'm looking for.
• 1:27:00
  SPEAKER_00: And even when I was 23, running around New York City trying to find the magical practitioners, I was like, who's got the goods?
• 1:27:07
  SPEAKER_00: Is kind of how I say it.
• 1:27:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you were one of those people, and I just didn't know you yet, Elise.
• 1:27:12
  SPEAKER_00: But it was like it was so hard to be out of that group for a while because it really was the magical community that I had created for myself.
• 1:27:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:27:22
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for sharing that.
• 1:27:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna go ahead and sign off.
• 1:27:25
  SPEAKER_03: Elise, I'll let you bring us home.
• 1:27:27
  SPEAKER_03: And Elizabeth, thank you so much for your story.
• 1:27:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's gonna help a lot of people and it really brings for me anyway, it just answers a lot of questions about what happened before, before 2023 and the the arrival of the entity.
• 1:27:43
  SPEAKER_00: The entity.
• 1:27:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, going through it really helps me understand too, and I've gained more insights here.
• 1:27:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess what I would really like to kind of start to bring this home with is from your perspective, right?
• 1:27:55
  SPEAKER_01: As somebody who's kind of known her longer than most people we've had on the We've had a couple of people who've known her since those earlier years.
• 1:28:03
  SPEAKER_01: For me, the whole biggest reason why I wanted to do this series was to answer this question of what the hell happened here, right?
• 1:28:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think that Robin and I have often gone back and forth along like looking at the timeline and being like asking this question of was she always this way?
• 1:28:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it just got worse and worse, or was there a point at which like she was benevolent or something?
• 1:28:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then it shifted.
• 1:28:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm curious your perspective on all of that of just like, how do you make sense of this in your own mind?
• 1:28:39
  SPEAKER_01: And what would be the answer to your question of like, kind of, was she always this way?
• 1:28:44
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there were there were elements.
• 1:28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Do I feel like this is when I when we ask the question, like, was this all she always this way?
• 1:28:51
  SPEAKER_00: Where I always go is was this all the master plan all along?
• 1:28:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think it was.
• 1:28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:28:56
  SPEAKER_00: I really don't.
• 1:28:57
  SPEAKER_00: I feel all of us as spiritual teachers and mentors and trauma therapists, and we all are human and we're all navigating our magician and our divine self and our human self.
• 1:29:07
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times I see in my mentors and my teachers and in myself that little not split, but those two things in the same body.
• 1:29:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now that I've unpacked it more, I do see like the early weirdness that was weird to start.
• 1:29:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like I need to think about or unpack that a little more before I really come to any conclusions.
• 1:29:28
  SPEAKER_00: And this series has helped illuminate some, and talking to the two of you has helped illuminate some of that.
• 1:29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Was it always this way?
• 1:29:35
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there was probably just like anything, there's a progression and there's forces.
• 1:29:41
  SPEAKER_00: And some of this is just basic psychology.
• 1:29:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the behaviors and the manipulation for lack want to call it that, it can happen.
• 1:29:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's subtle over time.
• 1:29:52
  SPEAKER_00: I would not say that this was always like some master plan that she had from the beginning.
• 1:29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe she did, and like I was just snowed because I had my own lensing and I was ever since my early days in magical training, but what I was always seeking, my radar from age 22 on was who are the legit people?
• 1:30:11
  SPEAKER_00: Who are the ones that have the goods and who are doing the real work?
• 1:30:16
  SPEAKER_00: And she presented that way.
• 1:30:18
  SPEAKER_00: So the the kind of learnings that I take from this are just like number one, this can happen over many years.
• 1:30:25
  SPEAKER_00: It can start subtly.
• 1:30:26
  SPEAKER_00: This I do know about magical people, for lack of a better way of putting it, right?
• 1:30:30
  SPEAKER_00: What we do has us on the fringes of psychology and it has us on the fringes, one foot in the upper plains and one foot in the lower plains.
• 1:30:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very vulnerable place to be.
• 1:30:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it takes an incredible amount of mastery to be able to navigate those two worlds, in my experience.
• 1:30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:30:47
  SPEAKER_00: So some of this I just go, we can unpack like what the fudge nators happened here with her.
• 1:30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like what happened and when.
• 1:30:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that's like a fascinating conversation.
• 1:30:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that's important to name for my own self, too.
• 1:31:02
  SPEAKER_00: The other piece of learning is what are our motivations for aligning with the mentor?
• 1:31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:31:06
  SPEAKER_00: What unmet need, Elizabeth, are you trying to get met by aligning with this person?
• 1:31:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was already a master by then.
• 1:31:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was already like, or you know, mastery level in my craft.
• 1:31:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was an elder in my tradition.
• 1:31:20
  SPEAKER_00: I hadn't been elevated all the way, but I was second degree and that was enough.
• 1:31:24
  SPEAKER_00: You'd done enough by then.
• 1:31:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:31:26
  SPEAKER_00: With more to come.
• 1:31:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:31:27
  SPEAKER_00: What are your motivations here?
• 1:31:29
  SPEAKER_00: If you are trying to get your needs met in some way other than stated, the relationship can be high.
• 1:31:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you know that like you, this is like your ballow wick.
• 1:31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:31:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it really begs the question to for people like, why get a mentor?
• 1:31:46
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, that question has changed so much.
• 1:31:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think for me, I was at a point when I started working with her that I had just started my business.
• 1:31:54
  SPEAKER_01: And to to have somebody who had so much experience to me was like, oh, this is exactly what I need, not knowing what I didn't know.
• 1:32:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then also thinking that all I needed was a mentor.
• 1:32:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that would just guide me on my path when really I needed someone to teach me how to run a fucking business.
• 1:32:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:32:13
  SPEAKER_01: How about that?
• 1:32:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like she did not teach me.
• 1:32:17
  SPEAKER_00: No, she didn't have, she was not a business coach in any way, shape, or form.
• 1:32:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, not at all.
• 1:32:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and that was something I saw early on, too, which is like another reason why we I had the kind of earlier break.
• 1:32:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was like 2019 and I'm done.
• 1:32:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:32:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was not coming to her for business.
• 1:32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Even me early on.
• 1:32:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think in the beginning I did stuff that she said, but then after that, I was kind of like, and I was so early on too, but I could just tell immediately, like all the ideas she was giving me were like, I'm not doing that.
• 1:32:45
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't make sense.
• 1:32:47
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like it was, it just wasn't what I was gonna do.
• 1:32:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how else to put it.
• 1:32:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I think now coming out on the other side of this, for me, if I'm gonna hire somebody, it's going to be for a very specific thing.
• 1:33:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to be because I want to learn this or I want to get better at this.
• 1:33:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna be like, oh, I just need this person to guide me in whatever way.
• 1:33:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that was kind of how she positioned herself.
• 1:33:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that was for me the mistake that I made was to just think that I needed that overall person in my life.
• 1:33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:33:30
  SPEAKER_00: But this sparks for me what you're saying is also that dovetails pretty quickly into the community that she was able to create.
• 1:33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:33:38
  SPEAKER_01: And this was another pattern because every single woman said the same thing that the thing that drew them the most was the women.
• 1:33:48
  SPEAKER_01: The community.
• 1:33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Once I got like the magical teaching part that I needed, then it was really making the transition from seeing her as a mentor to to not really, because that part had come to a good close and there wasn't really any clean break there.
• 1:34:03
  SPEAKER_00: But then the community that she had around her was always just well full of full of us.
• 1:34:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:34:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that was a thing.
• 1:34:12
  SPEAKER_00: That was a that was a real thing.
• 1:34:14
  SPEAKER_01: As somebody with this very extensive background with magic and all of your training, when we say, okay, when the thing came from your objective lens, but also magic lens, like how do you make sense of or describe what happened?
• 1:34:36
  SPEAKER_00: I will say I don't know exactly what happened in terms of the entity showing up.
• 1:34:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm incredibly curious about that, you know.
• 1:34:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I just as a magician and as like a person who's been in this world for so long, I will say that another thing that was like a uh-uh, no, was the fact that she was embodying 24-7.
• 1:34:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, that is a freaking red flag.
• 1:34:59
  SPEAKER_00: That is like no witch or priestess or magician that I know does that.
• 1:35:04
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a reason why.
• 1:35:05
  SPEAKER_01: What is the reason why?
• 1:35:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just a little too close to your psychology.
• 1:35:10
  SPEAKER_00: You've got the psychology background that I don't have, so I don't want to start throwing around terms out of school.
• 1:35:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm just like, that's is the word break appropriate.
• 1:35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Every magical practitioner that I know who knows their shit has boundaries.
• 1:35:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is the on time, this is the off time, this is the on time, this is the off time.
• 1:35:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that was a huge, huge red flag.
• 1:35:36
  SPEAKER_00: That was a huge red flag.
• 1:35:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, in terms of exactly all of what I'm still in the inquiry, but I will say that it's like the discernment is ongoing.
• 1:35:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:35:47
  SPEAKER_01: What did you think about like when you heard the stories of the women on the Croatia retreat?
• 1:35:54
  SPEAKER_01: What is your reaction to that?
• 1:35:56
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, a lot of anger.
• 1:35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Same.
• 1:35:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly how I felt.
• 1:36:00
  SPEAKER_01: I felt so angry.
• 1:36:01
  SPEAKER_00: In that feminine anger way, it's the anger sadness, same time.
• 1:36:06
  SPEAKER_00: I just get teared up thinking about it.
• 1:36:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 1:36:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm I'm tearing up now because I get teary a lot.
• 1:36:13
  SPEAKER_00: So do I?
• 1:36:14
  SPEAKER_00: My lineage, my magical lineage, Proteus.
• 1:36:17
  SPEAKER_00: The ethics were there from the start.
• 1:36:22
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't, we weren't taught anything until we and I could see myself in Judy's living room as this, you know, I'm 28 years old.
• 1:36:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not gonna say, and I and I'm very that was a part of my life in 20 to 20 2020.
• 1:36:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna say that.
• 1:36:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've shifted and changed a lot since then, but the ethics piece is huge.
• 1:36:41
  SPEAKER_00: So when I hear the stories, and even if I just because again, for me, I felt when a lot of the late stage stuff was going on, the the we were all dealing with the pandemic, it was perfect storm.
• 1:36:52
  SPEAKER_00: We're all dealing with the pandemic, we're all searching for answers, we all want bigger answers, and we're all in this really particular, we're all isolated and we're all in this really particular kind of vulnerable state.
• 1:37:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:37:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it was the perfect time for that.
• 1:37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which just makes me go again.
• 1:37:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I don't have all the answers.
• 1:37:12
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to know kind of what the bigger, the bigger picture is.
• 1:37:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think that we're kind of putting it all together.
• 1:37:18
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, like the way that I look at everything, like from the trauma lens, is always patterns, right?
• 1:37:26
  SPEAKER_01: Pattern, patterns and parallels.
• 1:37:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I've I've come up with quite a few at this point.
• 1:37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I could see the gears turning as I was talking.
• 1:37:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 1:37:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna make a a list of all of them because it's it's quite extensive.
• 1:37:41
  SPEAKER_01: But there's very strong patterns and themes running through everybody's stories that I think are really important on the back end to look at.
• 1:37:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I know we have to wrap up.
• 1:37:52
  SPEAKER_01: So is there anything else you just want to share or any last just thoughts around this to kind of tie it together?
• 1:38:01
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, I want to just say to anyone who's ever been in any kind of crazy mentor, because I feel like one of the gifts of this series, Betty obviously has been the vehicle through which you're driving this bus, right?
• 1:38:12
  SPEAKER_00: But the bus is spiritual mentoring gone wrong.
• 1:38:15
  SPEAKER_00: The bus is when we as very imperfect humans, and I'm talking about the mentors too, are on this path that we're on toward changing consciousness and magic and all the things and the pitfalls and all of that.
• 1:38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like when we're on, when we're on that path, no one is immune.
• 1:38:35
  SPEAKER_00: If you've ever been kicking yourself because you got horn swoggled by like a mentor or something, there's lessons here for everyone.
• 1:38:44
  SPEAKER_00: There's always, there's always the lessons.
• 1:38:46
  SPEAKER_00: There's the learning for me.
• 1:38:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's a big, big piece of it.
• 1:38:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's part of, I feel like why we have these experiences in the in the first place.
• 1:38:55
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 1:38:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a bigger conversation because so many people have had experiences like this, not just with Betty and not just with coaches or mentors, but with romantic partners or family members or whatever it is.
• 1:39:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's it really is an opportunity for our growth.
• 1:39:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's an opportunity to raise consciousness.
• 1:39:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the other thing I would just say is that everyone gets to trust themselves.
• 1:39:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that you're a big stand for this, like, because a lot of what she created was the cognitive dissonance, doubting of your reality, which is a classic part of the playbook.
• 1:39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, for sure.
• 1:39:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it was to varying degrees, depending on the person and what she thought she could get away with.
• 1:39:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because what I see, for example, with you versus me versus other people, I can see where she stopped because she knew she couldn't go any further.
• 1:39:58
  SPEAKER_01: With me, I I don't think she could do the thing where she would try to drive a wedge between me and like my family.
• 1:40:04
  SPEAKER_01: So she just didn't really try that.
• 1:40:06
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:40:07
  SPEAKER_00: I shut that down.
• 1:40:08
  SPEAKER_00: That was an absolute hard note.
• 1:40:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that wouldn't have worked for me, but she did try to do it with me with like clients or other mentors that I worked with.
• 1:40:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it was kind of like seeing what she could get away with with each person and trying to use those techniques in the way that she could based on the person.
• 1:40:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:40:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think she also was tracking like how much availability, how many spoons the person had in any given time.
• 1:40:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was a really in that 2020 to 20 through 2023, I did not have a lot of spoons.
• 1:40:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so you can find where the where the entry point is based on that.
• 1:40:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I would just say to keeps listening, discernment is ongoing too.
• 1:40:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the people can start good relationship turns.
• 1:40:57
  SPEAKER_00: But I would just like, I feel in a way too, that this whole process has been an initiation that has made me even stronger and even more strong in my conviction about how I want to show up.
• 1:41:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:41:10
  SPEAKER_00: A big part of my work and a big part of what I'm a stand for is how do we operate as responsible, for lack of a better word, spiritual practitioners, spiritual teachers, magical practitioners, transformational leaders?
• 1:41:25
  SPEAKER_00: How do we do that in a way that honors our divine nature, but also our very human side?
• 1:41:31
  SPEAKER_00: And how well are we taking care of our human and how well are we clearing out within us stuff that can cause problems and holding a really high standard to that to the best that we can?
• 1:41:44
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 1:41:45
  SPEAKER_00: To the best that we can, because we're not perfect, and you've had like professional training in this, so you know the importance of it.
• 1:41:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I do think it like that's kind of where the road goes, like after this is okay, now how do we hold ourselves to a higher standard?
• 1:42:02
  SPEAKER_01: And what does that look like?
• 1:42:04
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, we've been talking about that a little bit offline, but I think that that's kind of where we end up within all of this.
• 1:42:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's where we end up.
• 1:42:12
  SPEAKER_00: And like, how do we what do we want to model for others?
• 1:42:16
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's in a vulnerable state when they hire a mentor.
• 1:42:19
  SPEAKER_00: They they're in a vulnerable state when they hire a spiritual teacher, and they can be the strongest person in the world, but they're coming from a place of strength and vulnerability at the same time so that they can grow.
• 1:42:29
  SPEAKER_00: And how do we hold that?
• 1:42:31
  SPEAKER_00: And how do we carry that?
• 1:42:33
  SPEAKER_00: And what is the example that we want to set?
• 1:42:36
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 1:42:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I really take forward from this, and it's always like, how do I want to show up?
• 1:42:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say I'm still processing what happened because it was such a big part of my life and and all of that.
• 1:42:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I I like to think that I really did the best I could in terms of navigating Elizabeth as a mentor and Elizabeth as the one on the receiving end and being part of this.
• 1:42:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think we all did the best that we could, and now we're just trying to figure out what the hell happened.
• 1:43:07
  SPEAKER_01: What the hell?
• 1:43:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a whole other, yeah, it's what the hell happened.
• 1:43:10
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's some interesting, interesting things.
• 1:43:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I and I think it's actually a really useful question to have because we get more information about this whole journey and this whole process when we understand what the hell happened.
• 1:43:20
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:43:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just so grateful for the two of you for having this conversation and for having for creating this platform and this forum and to for the deep dive that the two of you are doing.
• 1:43:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know it just we've even seen as I've watched people connect on Facebook, posts that I've made and posts that you've made.
• 1:43:39
  SPEAKER_00: Many, many people have a Betty.
• 1:43:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:43:41
  SPEAKER_00: Part of our next evolution is like, how do we want to show up in the face of the Betty's and what lessons do we want to take forward?
• 1:43:50
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 1:43:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:43:52
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for sharing all of that.
• 1:43:55
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for being here.
• 1:43:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so grateful that you could be part of this and just for sharing your your unique perspective.
• 1:44:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's going to be very helpful for people.
• 1:44:05
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 1:44:06
  SPEAKER_00: That is my intention.
• 1:44:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's definitely my intention.
• 1:44:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I want people to want people to know that they're not alone and that we all, we all, this is this is part to me too.
• 1:44:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is part of the becoming the spiritual teacher or becoming the mentor, the teacher is really looking this stuff in the eyes.
• 1:44:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:44:24
  SPEAKER_00: And deciding how do we want to show up in the face of it all.
• 1:44:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:44:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Elizabeth.
• 1:44:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for being here.
• 1:44:33
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to follow the show on Apple or Spotify.
• 1:44:36
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• 1:44:41
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• 1:44:49
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• 1:44:53
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• 1:44:57
  SPEAKER_01: See you next time.