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Katie Woolf spoke with Police Association President Paul McCue · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Now, I'm sure you've all seen the footage which emerged
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: of Northern Territory police officers allegedly man handling and threatening
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: a group of youths. Now, this incident happened in Alice
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Springs Watchhouse during an arrest in twenty eighteen. It's since
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: been the subject of an ombudsman inquiry, but police say
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: they're unable to reveal what disciplinary outcomes of those proceedings
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: took place. Meanwhile, the Police Association slammed the ABC who
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: obtained and published the footage, describing it as manipulated footage.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Now joining me on the line is the Police Association
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: president Paul McHugh. Good morning, Paul, Good morning Katie. Now Paul,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: you have taken aim at the ABC over this report.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Why is this manipulated footage?
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Well, what you've seen online and what everyone would have
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: seen online, is just cherry picked footage of what would
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: have been a very long and involved incident. You know,
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: we know those youths were involved in the theft of
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: a view and a chase. We don't know the circumstances.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Nobody knows the circumstances fully around what happened there. Of course,
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: the footage that were shown, and the language and the
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: behavior wasn't necessarily reflective of what police do every day.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: But what we saw there was cherry picked footage designed
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: specifically designed to create a negative narrative around police in
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  Speaker 2: our community, and it is you know, it's so frustrating
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: when we know the incredible work police are doing out there,
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  Speaker 2: and you know, as well as the fact this was
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  Speaker 2: two and a half years ago, the matter's been dealt with.
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  Speaker 2: The police, as you know, have a heavily governed profession
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  Speaker 2: in terms of if there are behaviors that the public
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: don't feel are appropriate, there are mechanisms in place and
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: they were dealt with. And here we go again, sticking
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: the boot into the cops when they're out there doing
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  Speaker 2: what they do, serving in protecting the community, and we
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: were just extremely frustrated that they had to go down
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: that path.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Well, do you think it's a for this vision to
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: be released two years after the incident and after discipline
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: reaction has been taken.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: We've got to question the motives behind it, Katie. I
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: think you know, the footage isn't great, but as I've said,
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: it is manipulated. It's fast forwarded to the words that
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: the ABC wanted everyone to hear, and there's got to
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: be a reason behind that, and it really is masking,
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: in our view, the real issues that are going on
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: in the community. And we know those down in our
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: springs and in the top end around you know, use
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: walking the streets, later, not have a care, very young
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: children committing crime, domestic violence happening, alcohol related harm. But
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: these are the big issues, and yet here we go,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: we cherry pick something from two or three years ago,
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Nellie to have a crack at the cops again, and
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: we are fed up with it, and we know the
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: incredible work they do, and we don't need to be
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: putting up with this nonsense, and we won't.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Paul, what was your reaction when you saw that vision?
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  Speaker 1: I mean, did you think to yourself, oh goodness, you
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: know those police they could maybe have used different words
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: or they you know, they seemed incredibly frustrated. What was
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: your reaction?
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Well, obviously, you know, you look at it and you go, wow,
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  Speaker 2: that's not appropriate. But we again, we don't know really
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: what was going on in that circumstance. We don't know
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: what that officer had dealt with that day, how many
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: hours he'd worked, had he worked a double shift, I
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: mean police at the moment, and I'd like to work
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: enormous amounts of overtime, you know, just just to keep
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: a frontline response capability. So we don't know really the
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: ins and outs of that matter, and people making comment
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: based on a few snippets of footage that the ABC
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: have put up is irresponsible and unnecessary, and I think
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: until you really know the full picture, it really is
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: unhelpful and divisive and should not occur.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Paul, I know that there will be some people listening
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  Speaker 1: to this in you right now who will be thinking
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: to themselves, it's never okay, you know, to call the
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: people that you're arresting by derogatory terms, and it's not
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: okay to treat them in the manner that you know
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: of what we saw in that vision. I mean, what
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: would you say to those listeners?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, obviously, you know, and if people do have
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: those opinions and feel that way, you know, when they're
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: being spoken to by the police, or if they think
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: that the police are not behaving as they should behave
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  Speaker 2: or not actually executing their duties appropriate, there are mechanisms
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: in place, and that's what's happened on this occasion a
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: complaint through the ombersmen went to internal police investigations. They
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: undertook an investigation and provided an outcome, and that was
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: some time ago, and that is the appropriate way to
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: deal with it. And some of those outcomes can be
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  Speaker 2: managerial guidance, it can be extra training, it can be emotions.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, there are a whole range of things that
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: come out of these things. So you know that it's
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: the appropriate way of doing it, not cherry picking and
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: throwing it up on social media. It's just sensationalists and unnecessary.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Paul, do you know what action was taken with these officers.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: No, I don't, and obviously when unfortunately we're not allowed
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: to disclose that through legislative you know frameworks. But no,
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know the specific outcoming this instance. But as
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: I said, there are a range of options available to
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: police and into their discipline processes.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: Well, since that vision has come out yesterday, have you
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: spoken to many of the police officers that work in
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Olae Springs and how are they feeling today?
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  Speaker 2: Well, they're pretty disappointed. I mean they bust their backsides
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  Speaker 2: every single day, you know, to just they are often
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  Speaker 2: the only point of call at the middle of the night.
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  Speaker 2: It's a blue uniform out there doing the business keeping
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  Speaker 2: the streets safe. And you know, and the ironic part
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  Speaker 2: of this, Katie, is those people that like to dig down,
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: boots in and kick the police in the guts over
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  Speaker 2: things from time to time are the very people who
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: are going to be ringing the police number when they're
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: in strifle, when they're in trouble, and they'll be calling
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: on police because they are often the only people out
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  Speaker 2: there and they are the front line of our protection
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: of our community. And so they are feeling pretty disappointed
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: that the Alice Springs ABC and the ABC generally have
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: decided to throw this up so long after the event,
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: and particularly given what they've been doing this year for us, Katie,
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  Speaker 2: And you know, in terms of protul Well and Paul.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: You know, the thing that I keep going back to,
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  Speaker 1: and I'm trying my best, you know, to stay middle
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  Speaker 1: ground here, but the thing that I keep going back
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  Speaker 1: to is it is just a couple of months ago
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  Speaker 1: that we saw an innocent man lose his life on
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  Speaker 1: the roads, allegedly due to young people who stole the
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: car in Alice Springs and hit him. You know, the
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: police have got it's such a bloody hard job to
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: do in Alice Springs. In fact, you know, they've got
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: a hard job to do no matter where they are.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: But I just think that this is such an unhelpful thing,
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: you know, to release two years after it's happened. Now.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: I'm a journalist and obviously I would always say that,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: you know, you can't hide a story because the timing's
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: not right. But the community is hurting at the moment.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: We've got so many people who are feeling at their
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: wits end with the way that youth crime is unfolding
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: in Alice Springs. I just think to myself, how to
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: our Northern Territory Police, How do those offices in Alice
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Springs feel today?
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty tough, and I think they are doing
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: some You ever look at some of the work they're
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: doing down there with the community. I mean, you know,
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: not just in our Springs, but the remote communities surrounding
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  Speaker 2: our Springs and through Central Australia and across the whole territory.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, they live and invest their lives into that
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  Speaker 2: uniform and they get involved in the community like no other,
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  Speaker 2: and they really commit to serve the community in a
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: way that goes above and beyond, and yet here we go,
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: let's have a crack at a moment. Where is the
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: outrage for when the police get assaulted at enormous rates
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  Speaker 2: every year? And where is the outrage when the kids
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: are wandering the streets late at night or there's another
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: horrible domestic violence incident on a public street corner. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: come on, there are big issues out there that need
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  Speaker 2: to be addressed, and you know, this matter has been
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: dealt with, the officer's been dealt with, and it's time
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  Speaker 2: to move on.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Well, I tell you what, we were outraged when I
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: saw that vision a couple of weeks ago of a
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  Speaker 1: female police officer being assaulted at the hands of a
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  Speaker 1: teenage girl. And I think that this really, you know,
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: what we've seen here, what we've seen in you know,
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  Speaker 1: in the vision with the police, but also what we've
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: seen obviously in this vision that was released or that
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: we saw a couple of weeks ago of that terrible
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  Speaker 1: assault on an officer. Is it seems to me like
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: we've got a community that is at their wits ends.
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  Speaker 1: You know, We've got a police force that is probably
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: feeling like they have are tied behind their backs.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: That is often the case, Katian, and I know that
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: the Police Minister and the Chief Minister are down there,
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  Speaker 2: you know, as recently as a couple of weeks ago,
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  Speaker 2: and talking to those police on the front line that
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: are trying to do with that issue. And it is
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: a bloody tough job. I mean, as you put it
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  Speaker 2: many times, it is not easy being on the front
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  Speaker 2: line right now, particularly, I mean, let's not forget the
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: COVID implication of what they had to occur there, and
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  Speaker 2: you know it is a frustrating time. They've had a
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: lot of hours, a lot of hours over time just
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: to keep us safe. We need to be thanking them.
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  Speaker 2: We're not for one second condoning the language used in
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  Speaker 2: that footage. But ultimately it is a long time ago,
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  Speaker 2: there would have been lessons learned from that. The matter
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: has been dealt with and we need to we need
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: to move on from it.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: Well, sorry to cut you there, mate, I do just
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  Speaker 1: want to ask obviously, we know that borders. The government
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: yesterday made that announcement about police being taken off some
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: of those border locations. This is something that you and
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  Speaker 1: I have spoken about on numerous occasions. You've been calling
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: for this to happen now for weeks. Were you pleased
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: and the government made that announcement yesterday, Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Look extremely please. I mean I've always said obviously they
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: have to rely on the health advice and so forth,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: but we know the borders are open, we know at
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: the moment there's no hotspots, and you know it'll be
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: welcome news for a lot of those officers that have
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: had to work away from their families in many of
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: those really remote locations to be able to come back
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: right at Christmas get some rest and respite because they've
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: been doing it tough for a long time. So really
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: welcome news and I know it'll be welcomed by the
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: troops on the ground for sure.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: Police Association President Paul McHugh. We will leave it there.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: I always appreciate your time, mate, Thanks for having your
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: chat today.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Good on you, cheez Katie.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Thank you. You are listening to Mix one oh four
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: point nine's three sixty