Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / The Ban That Could Save Our Kids’ Childhood

Transcript

The Ban That Could Save Our Kids’ Childhood · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello, this is the Happy Families Podcast. Minimum age legislation
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: is creeping up. It's only a couple of months away now.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: December tenth is when the Federal Government's Social Media minimum
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: age legislation kicks off. In a lot of ways, this
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: is first of its kind across the globe and there
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: are a lot of people who are watching with interest.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Today on the Happy Families Podcast, we unpack what it means,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: what people misunderstand, and a whole lot more about how
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: this thing is actually going to work. The clock's ticking
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: and we're going to tell you all about it right
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: after this. Stay with us. Hello, Welcome to the Happy
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Families Podcast. It's real parenting solutions every single day on
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. We love that you choose
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: to listen to us. Hopefully you've had a great school holidays.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: A couple of states still going through their holidays, but
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: here in Queensland where we live, it's back to school
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: and we're kicking off the term with a conversation that
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: is on a lot of people's minds. The Social Media
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Minimum Age Legislation. Term four is the last term of
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: school where kids under sixteen get access to social media.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: It's all about to change.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Tilly died at just fifteen today. Her mom took her
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: story from regional New South Wales to the world, speaking
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: at the United Nations. Exhausted and broken, she just couldn't
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: fight anymore, and social media played a direct role in
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: her death.
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: Well, I've got a whole heap of questions for you today, Okay,
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: I'd really love to unpack this because I think that
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: there's plenty of parents who either don't understand the policy
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: and what's going to change for them and their children,
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: or kind of misunderstand what the purpose of it is.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: So my first question for you is what does this
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: policy actually do.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: So the policy is designed literally to limit access to
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: social media platforms to children under the age of sixteen.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: That's it in a nutshell. It's pretty widely misunderstood. It's
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: been very much mischaracterized around the world. But if I
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: was to read this directly from the E Safety Commissioner's
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: FAQ about it, it says this age restricted platforms won't
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: be allowed to let under sixteens create or keep an account,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: and that's because being logged into an account increases the
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: likelihood that they're going to be exposed to pressures and
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: risks that can be hard to deal with. These come
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: from social media platform design features that encourage them to
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: spend more time on screens while also serving up content
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: that can harm their health and well being. Under sixteens
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: and this is critical will still be able to see
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: publicly available social media content that doesn't require being logged
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: into an account to view. Okay, So that's what it does.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: It keeps kids from having an account, It keeps kids
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: from getting access to anything that's locked down behind an account.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: But if there is content on social media platforms that
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: is available for public viewing, children and teachers and whoever
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: else will be able to access that content and it
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: will be able to be viewed.
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: So you're suggesting that you don't need to have a
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: profile to be able to access publicly available content.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, even now as an adult. So I believe
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: that you don't have a TikTok account, right, yep, But
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: you can still jump online and look for short videos
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: and TikTok content will come up in your online search.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: You don't have to have an account to be able
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: to see the content. So the social media minimum age
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: legislation once more does not stop kids from viewing content
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: on social media. They can see publicly available social media
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: content so long as it doesn't require being logged into
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: an account. If people have privacy settings on, you have
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: to have an account to be able to get in
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: there and be friends with them whatever. But they will
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: not be able to keep an account, create an account,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: and therefore have the algorithm doing what algorithms do, which
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: serves up increasingly half for material and provides ongoingly compelling
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: content to keep them there longer.
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: So it seems like a really lofty goal on the
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: government's part to I guess rain in some control over
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: what has been just openly available to these kids.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean social media has been the wild wildwist
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: it still is.
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: How are they going to monitor it? Like, how do
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: they know that this child is sixteen or We've seen
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: so many times that kids are pretty clever and they
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: know how to get their way around all these different
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: controls and platforms, So how do they monitor it?
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to be talking with Julie Inman Grant,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: the e Safety Commissioner, in a couple of weeks and
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: ask a little bit more about this. The details on
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: this are a little bit skinny, but basically, again from
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: the FAQ on the E Safety Commission's website, there is
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: a range of technologies available to check age at the
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: point of account sign up and later on as well.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: It's going to be up to each platform to decide
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: which method they choose to use, and E Safety is
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: going to publish regulatory guidance to help platforms to decide
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: which methods are going to be most effective and comply
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: with the Online Safety Act. The guidelines as well are
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: going to draw on the Australian Government's Age Assurance Technology
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: trial as well as a whole lot of stakeholder consultations,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: and essentially, no Australian is going to be forced to
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: use government ID to prove their age online. The age
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: restricted social media platforms have to offer reasonable alternatives to users,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: but basically this is going to be on the platforms
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: to make sure that all users are over the age
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: of sixteen.
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: So I find this part curious then, because we've done
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: so many podcasts we've actually acknowledged that these platforms do
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: not have our children's best interests at heart, correct, and
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: yet all of a sudden we're actually putting the onus
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: back on them to take care of our kids.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's because too many parents either won't do
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: it or be want to be their kids' best friends,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: so they actively assist them to be online or see,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: it's just too hard, like parents are just what they're trying.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: They're trying, they're trying, and the kids find ways around it.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: So now the focus is very much on what the
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: platforms are going to do to keep kids off.
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: So who gets in trouble if someone falls through the cracks?
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: Is it the platform or is it parents and kids?
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, So again, if we have a look at the
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: FAQ on the E Safety website, it says this there
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: are no penalties for under sixteens who access an age
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: restricted social media platform. There are no penalties for their
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: parents or cares. This is about protecting young people, not
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: punishing or isolating them. The goal is to help parents
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: and cares support their health and well being of under sixteens.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: The penalties therefore go to the platforms. A court can
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: order civil penalties for platforms that don't take reasonable steps
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: to prevent underage users from having accounts on their platforms.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: This includes court imposed fines of up to a total
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: of forty nine point five million Australian dollars. That is,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: for each case brought against Meta or against TikTok, or
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: against Snap or against a YouTube. For each case where
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: it can be proved that they have not taken reasonable
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: steps to prevent an under sixteen accessing their platform, they
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: can be fined up to forty nine point five million dollars.
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: I know you and a handful of your colleagues worked
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: really hard to get this legislation in place, and I
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: know that it means a lot to you, But I
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: am curious. Do you really think that this is going
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: to move the needle at all for our kids?
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean it will. It's not going to change everything.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: They've still got access to gaming. There's still work to
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: be done in terms of access to explicit content. They
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: will still be able to be on the platforms in
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: one form or another, in that the platforms can continue
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: to serve up content in the public domain, and kids
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: and screens are inextricably linked. But I think it is
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: going to soften the impact of the platforms. I think
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: the platforms for under sixteens are going to become less engaging,
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: and that's because the algorithm no longer knows who they are.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: They can't log in unless they're using their parents accounts,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: and I don't know too many parents that are going
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: to be like, of course, you can have my social
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: media account. Here's the thing I reckon. There's going to
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: be some parents who are going to sign up for
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: like a second account and just let the kids use
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: that one. You can be me. But the algorithm, apparently
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: this is hearsay. We'll be able to tell whether it's
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: a teenager using the account or not, and hopefully that
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: will flag it and be like, Okay, a parent has
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: signed up for this pretended it's them, but it's actually
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: the child. I have a sense that the technology company
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: is going to be able to figure out who's using it,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: and forty nine point five million dollar fines are not
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: attractive to companies like this. This should work. Let me
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: also highlight there is enormous support among parents and even
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: surprisingly some growing support among young people for this ban
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: for this minimum age legislation. Ahead of the implementation, YouGov
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: did a survey and found that seventy seven percent of
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Australians back the under sixteen social media minimum age legislation.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: That's up from sixty one percent just a few months earlier,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: there's only twenty three percent that opposed the measure. In addition,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: eighty seven percent of Austrains support the introduction of stronger
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: penalties for social media companies that are doing this. The
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: polls are showing really strong support across all aspects of
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: the government's proposed social media regulations.
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: So I feel like there are going to be so
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: many found is that are going to be breathing a
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: sigh of relief that finally they have a village that's
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: actually starting to recognize the damage that this is doing
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: to individuals and family units. But I'm also concerned that
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: in doing so, parents become less vigilant. And I think
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: that this actually would suggest that more than ever, as parents,
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: we actually need to band together and we need to
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: be more vigilant than we've ever been because we've now
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: been given this safeguard. It's in place, and if we
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: can honor that safeguard and work together as communities to
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: continue to safeguard our children in more profoundly impactful ways,
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: that's when the needle shifts, not because the government's put
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: in this policy.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so nature will fill a vacuum, and if the
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: kids aren't able to do X, y Z, they'll find
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: something else to do there. And so it's going to
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: be up to us to make sure that we're delaying
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: access to screen, having conversations with kids about what they're
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: doing on screens, and giving them in riching environments where
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: they can go and be creative, come up with other ideas,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: do other things that are going to be far more
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: in their best interests. If we just think, oh, well,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: the government's done it now we don't have to do anything,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: then we're selling our children short. And we're also we
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: have far too much belief in the power of legislation.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: It can move the needle, but it's not going to
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: change everything.
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: I was actually speaking with a young man recently about
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: his real fears that this is just another ploy from
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: the government to take control of us. They want they
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: want they want our id they want to you know,
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: they want to know everything about us, and that we're
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: heading towards a dictatorship because we no longer have the
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: choice to decide whether or not we will have an account.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: How do you allay those fears?
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: Because for him it was real, like it was intensely
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: real for him.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: So a couple of things. First, of all, young men
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: and young women who are getting all of their news
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: from influencers who are spreading fear and panic are just
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: going to end up with anxiety and be miserable about it.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Number two, you don't have to have an account if
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: you don't want to, so nobody's getting your details if
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: you're not putting your details up there. If you do
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: want to have an account, guess what. Alphabet is the
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: parent company of Google, who also owns YouTube and Meta.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: They know more about you than you know about you,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: and they like, if you're worried about the government knowing
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: about you, I'd be just as concerned, if not more concerned,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: about what these corporations know. And they know everything. And
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: by the way, the government knows everything about you as well.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: They know where you live. They've got all of your
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: ID already because of things like driver's licenses and passports
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: and because of spending habits. The ATO does actually talk
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: to the banks and gets all the information about where
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: money is coming from, where money is going to the
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: idea that this is going to turn us into a
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: surveillance state. The Big Brother is watching that ship sailed
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: years ago, right like we're already there we're already there. Yeah,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: if you don't want to be on the grid, use cash,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: get rid of your social media, don't have a credit card,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: be very very careful about even having an email account,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: and I don't know, get a dial up phone for
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: your wall in your kitchen, and don't talk to me
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: on a mobile phone. It's conspiracy theory thinking at its
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: its most basic, and I just don't buy it. The
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: government already has all the information they need is kind
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: of where I'm going with that.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: So you alluded to it earlier on in your comments,
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: The idea that there is quite a lot of misunderstanding
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: about what this policy is and what it is going
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: to I guess give us as a community. Can you
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: just unpack some of that for us?
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so let's go through. I'm going to go
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: through each platform and I'll do this fairly quickly. All
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: this information is available online. But if you listen to
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: the pod and you're sort of going, oh, yeah, I
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: need to figure out what we're doing about this YouTube.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: What stays for under sixteens is this full access to
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: view or content, but you're going to be accountless, You're
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: going to be logged out. That includes via web browsers.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: It includes the YouTube app. As an under sixteen, you're
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: logged out unless you're using your parents account because sometimes
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: parents stay logged in like on the TV or something
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: like that, you're going to be logged out. And therefore
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: what goes is the cross device, cross session personalized algorithmic recommendations.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: You know how when you're on one device and you're
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: going to the next device and you can kind of
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: pick up watching what you're watching from elsewhere, it knows,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: it knows who you are, it knows what you've been watching,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: and it continues to recommend things to you because it
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: knows you on all of your devices. So that goes.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: The ability to upload and post content goes, and the
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: ability to interact with strangers in the comments goes for
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: YouTube as well. When it comes to Instagram, very very
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: limited access. So as part of the way that they
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: acquire users on Instagram, Meta pretty much restricts access to
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: people who have an account. You can get public access
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: to landing pages and maybe a little bit, but they
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: pretty strongly restrict browsing of any public content unless you
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: have an account, and that's a business decision made by Meta,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: that's not an Australian government decision. So what's going to
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: go if you're under sixteen? There goes the cross device,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: cross session of personalized algorithmic recommendations. Again, it doesn't know
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: who you are. You also won't be able to have
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: unlimited scrolling. That's just gone. That's against the way that
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Instagram works. You'll lose the ability to upload and post content,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: the ability to react to or comment on other people's posts,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: the ability to interact with strangers via the comments, the
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: ability to interact with strangers via DMS, no more direct messaging. Also,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: there won't be any notifications that lure you back to
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: the platform, and you're going to lose most access unless
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Meta changes as policy, and you also won't have meta
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: AI access, which I think is fantastic and that's going
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: to apply pretty much across Facebook as well.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: So that is really going to impact how our teenagers communicate.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. And again that's why building that
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: community and finding ways to fill that vacuum, fill that hole,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: making sure that kids have got a way to be
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: in touch with each other matters. Good news is there
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: are I mean Wayne Warburton about a month ago on
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: the podcast when I raised that with him. He just said,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: it's just ridiculous. There are so many ways for kids
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: to get in touch with each other even without using
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: the dominant social media platforms that if they're crying foul
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: over that, they're just not using their imaginations. It's still
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: completely doable. What about okay, So TikTok once again, here's
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: what stays. All of the public content via a web
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: browser that's going to remain available as it currently is.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Any public content and landing pages that you can access
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: without an account, you'll still be able to see that,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: and you will be able to see the comments from
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: other users. But remember this, the TikTok mobile app will
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: require an account to use, and if you're under sixteen,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: you won't be allowed to have an account. So here's
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: what goes access to private content once again, the cross device,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: cross session, personalized algorithmic recommendations that I'm going to just
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: throw in here. TikTok is a China It's owned by ByteDance,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: which is a Chinese owned company, and the CCP, the
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Chinese Communist Party, has their tentacles into every single Chinese organization,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: so fundamentally those recommendations are controlled by the Chinese government,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: and I think that that's going to be a really
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: good thing that our young kids aren't being exposed to
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: what the Chinese government wants them to see. If you're
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: on TikTok and you're under sixteen, you won't be able
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: to upload and post content, or react to or comment
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: on other people's posts, or react with strangers, or send
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: direct messages, and you won't get those notifications bringing you
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: back to the platform. It's basically the same with Snapchat
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: as well. That's the only platform that we haven't covered.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: That's one of the major ones. You still get all
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: the public content via web browsers, but Snapchat is designed
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: to use with an account, So if you are a
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: teenager under sixteen, you're not going to have disappearing messages,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: you're not going to get access to private content, you're
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: not going to get the gamified streaks that increase that
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: pressure to keep you there. You're going to lose the notifications,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: all the stuff that we're talking about. This is going
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: to severely hamper restricts, reduce access to and time on
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: social media for our young people if they're under sixteen.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: There will be ways around it because people always find it,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: but generally speaking when social media platforms are going to
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: get stung forty nine point five million dollars for not
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: taking every reasonable precaution. This is a win for our
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: young people.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: So guess my last question for you is understanding and
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: recognizing how prevalent the use of social media has been
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: for about thirteen plus and sometimes much younger children. In essence,
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: we're going cold turkey. One day they're going to have
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: access and the next day they're not. Right, is there
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: going to be anything available to parents to help them
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: navigate that transition period.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: I keep on getting so many like I've had so
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: many interviews in the press and in the media about this,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: and my response is they'll be okay, Like they'll be
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: a little bit sad, they'll be a little bit frustrated,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: and then they'll figure it out. Kids are creative, Kids have ingenuity.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: Kids will start to hassle you about different ways that
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: they can contact their friends. You'll have to do that
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: thing that parents used to do before social media, Like
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: go back fifteen twenty years where parents used to talk
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: to each other about getting the kids together, and then
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: the kids are going to have to do things like
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: ring each other or send each other text messages or
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: get on the bike and ride to each other's houses. Again,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: there are going to be some kids who struggle. There
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: are going to be some disadvantages. I'm not denying that,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: but overwhelmingly I think this is a net positive.
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: I think back on our parenting journey and I remember
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: the day our eldest received, against our desire, a mobile phone,
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: and I look at the lives that we lived before
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: those small devices were placed in our kids' hands, and
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: maybe I'm wearing rose colored glasses, but family life was
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: so much simpler. There were some challenges, obviously, family life
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: is full of it. It's messy, but on the whole,
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: the challenges that we were experiencing were everyday challenges as
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: opposed to a constant navigation of impactful negatively impactful information
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: that our children are being fed on a daily basis.
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: And as much as there's been some good that's come
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: out of them, honestly, I'd go back to the day
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: when my phone was stuck on a wall any day.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: I know we're sounding like a couple of old fogies
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: right now, but I just don't think that the changes
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: that social media has brought to the world have been
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: a fundamentally positive. I think social media has been an
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: overall net negative in far too many lives to justify
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: its existence.
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: If for no other reason, then it zaps our time
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: and literally takes us away out I've lost human people
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: that matter most in our lives.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: If anyway, I'm going to talk to Julian and Grant,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: the ESCAPT Commissioner, in the next couple of weeks about
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: more around this. If this has been helpful, please share
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: it with somebody you know who's maybe struggling with or
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: has some questions around these topics. And play it for
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: your kids as well, because the kids will want to
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: know what's going on and this could be helpful. Play
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: it on one and a half speed. I mean, they
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: don't need to listen to us talk in slow motion.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast has been produced today by Justin
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Ruland from Bridge Medium. Imhammits provides additional research, admin and
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: other support, and if you'd like more information about making
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: your family happy, visit us at happy families dot com
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: dot au.