Latest / For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast / #326 - For Azeroth!: "One Button to Rule Them All"

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#326 - For Azeroth!: "One Button to Rule Them All" · For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast

0:00
So we had a big amount of news that came in jumbo size, Wow
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cast. And unfortunately last week we
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didn't put out an episode because I was stupid.
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But yeah, there's a lot to cover.
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So I guess we'll get right here. Victory.
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For the Forsaken. For Lauderon.
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For the Karen Tour for Pandaria. For calendar to.
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The. Burning.
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Region. For Gilnaeus that has not died,
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for the Lich King, for the Sindora, for the Alliance, for
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the. Horde for Azeroth.
0:48
Hello and welcome to you for Azeroth.
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I am one of your hosts, Manny, AKA The Treatment of Manny, and
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joining me is the other two parts of The Triumphant starting
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First, 'cause Lex, I know you really want to get into this.
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How are you Lex, and how's the World of Warcraft treating you?
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I'm doing good. My team got mugsy down last week
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and we are holding. So this tomorrow, Yeah, so
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Thursday. So probably the day that the
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episode comes out, God willing, we'll have AOTC, which is crazy
1:18
to think about 'cause it's been 2 weeks of the season and also
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200 years. Congrats, Congrats.
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There you go. And on the other side of, well,
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I wouldn't say the bench, but other side of this country is
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Sean. Hello Sean, How are you and
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how's the World of Warcraft been treating you?
1:38
I'm Andy, Warcraft's been great. We got one armed bandit down, so
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we are now working on mugsy. Oh so.
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You're almost my the point with the we're at.
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Almost at to the yeah, the point that you're on, that's pretty
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good. Alexa, I would like to make one
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quick pitch. There's not really a good reason
1:53
to extend because you unlocked the skip to mugsy now, so you
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could skip right to mugsy and then get another shot at the
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loot from there. House of Cards is usually a
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pretty big upgrade for a lot of people.
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Issue that we ran the the thinking that we had is that it
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didn't. And if for anyone in my Guild
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who's listening, this is not a drag at all.
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It didn't feel though, like we got mugsy because we had the
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dance down perfectly and everything was like 100% like
2:18
good to go, we are clean, we're going to get in like we'll have
2:20
this on farm forever. It kind of felt like we got
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mugsy down because like we were holding up really tight and we
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were able to push, push, push, then we got it.
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So the last thing we'd want to do is to say that we're working
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on AOTC and then spend another night hitting our head against
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Mugsy again. Makes sense one.
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I will give you 1 tip for Galliwicks, that is when he
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starts to cast suppression in phase two.
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Don't worry about it in phase one, but in his phase where he's
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in the robot body get far fast. Oh good, so that's for everyone
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else 'cause I just felt I always fell off anyway, so I get
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everywhere wherever. I want, yeah.
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Yes, well, everyone else in Timbermaw Tavern listen to what
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Sean's saying. That's right, I guess maybe that
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might be considered phase three cause Phase 2 is when he's on
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the edge. It's when he's in his robot body
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after he does the beams. No, I know what you're talking
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about. Yeah.
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Just yeah, just roars and whatever you can to just get
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that distance. GTFO, get the Frick out.
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OK. So I'm glad that that's going
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well, that you guys are all progressing through and that my
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team still needs to do our achievement runs and such.
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We're just currently doing farm. I'm hoping we do that pretty
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soon. I've got my quote UN quote goal
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of hitting three KIO, but last week I just could not bring
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myself to do any mythic plus just like cards on the table.
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I recently got let go from my job, so I've been spending more
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time on the IRL and such and haven't been on the discord and
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and that and then that also helped contribute to missing
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last week. I do appreciate everybody who
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reached out and was like, Hey, what happened to that episode of
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For Azov, including you 2 who were like, hey, what happened to
4:10
that episode of For Azov? So I do apologize to everybody,
4:15
but I also want to thank all of our patrons and all of our fans
4:20
because like, like the support is always great.
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I got a new mic because my mic broke down and Sean for the
4:26
millionth time said, dude, that's what the patrons for.
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And I'm just like, yeah, OK, this is this is the breaking
4:31
point here. So thank you everybody.
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But let's get into the meat of the news because today Ian
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Hasekosis sat down with two people from the Pod C podcast.
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That is of course Dratnos and Limit Max.
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And they talked about not only a couple of features that are
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coming in 11 point 1.7, which is the legacy of Aerithor, but also
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the future of add-ons in general and a new philosophy shift that
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is coming with add-ons. So I guess we should talk about
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the add-ons coming first 'cause that's a small sort of thing and
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that kind of sets as an example for what's coming next, though,
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Lex, you had a pretty strong reaction to that.
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I was, I was having a very bad day today, but I think that I
5:25
can speak hopefully to the doomer community because I spent
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this afternoon doomering hard, like texting Manny and Sean.
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Like, I don't know if I'm going to keep playing at 11 point 1.7.
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I think this game is not going to want to what I want to play
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anymore. I think everything is ruined.
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I don't know what to do. This is terrible.
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This is awful. And then I watched the video
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again and I talked to my Guild and I took a little walk with my
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puppy and I went, oh, actually this is fine and we're all fine.
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Everything's going to be fine. So basically what is coming at
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11 point 1.7 is if you know the add on.
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Hi Keely, it's very similar to that.
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So it's going to be allegedly if I haven't PTR Ed this.
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I don't know if either of you have PTR Ed this yet.
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The PTR it's not up at the time of this recording.
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It might be up by the time this episode's out.
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So good for you to cover that off Love that.
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So nobody's PTR D it, but the point is it's basically going to
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recommend the next spell in your rotation, like the next best
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step in your rotation for you. There's also going to be a
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single button mode basically, and that is going to have, it's
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basically going to have a, a, a GCD punishment if you use that.
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So right now I don't know if that's what they're going to
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stick with, but right now it's .2 seconds long, like more GCD.
6:39
Because the point of that is not to replace play, like playing
6:45
the game manually. It's mostly I meant as
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accessibility, right? If for whatever reason people
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can't or don't want to do more than just press 1 button that's
6:57
made for them. But they they even said
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explicitly they do not want this to be the type of mode where
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your raid leader is like, you know, just turn on single button
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mode. That's, that's the opposite of
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what they're looking for. So when I first heard this, I
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freaked out and I was very convinced that this was going to
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make it so the game was going to become significantly more like
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just press ABCDEFG in order forever the way it's supposed to
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be, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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Which is not how I like, which is how some people like to play.
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And what they want to do is plug and play and they want to just
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go and know exactly what to do. And the point is just execute
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the commands in the order that they're supposed to be executed
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in as quickly as possible. First of all, I should say Ian
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very explicitly said that's not what they want to do.
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What they want to do is they want to make this more
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accessible for people learning while still giving a lot of
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opportunities for people to be able to play on their own and
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expand how how they're going. And this also isn't going to be
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like significantly more to my from what they were saying.
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It's not going to be more advanced than Hakeeli is right
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now, which for those of you who play with Hakeeli, I mean I I
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tried it and I got rid of it, which is another reason I was
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feeling like this is terrible because I felt like it was going
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to be kind of forced on me. Hi, Keeley gives you the basic
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rotation, but it's not going to take into account nuance right,
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So it's not going to take into account oh, we hero at this
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point of the boss. So that's what I want to save
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cooldowns. It's not going to take into
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account, you know, like I I think it will be looking at how
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many ads are around you, but it's not going to take into
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account like, oh, I'm supposed to focus this I'm supposed to go
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over here. I have this like it's very wrote
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and just like button, button, button.
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So there's still going to be a lot of room for you to learn on
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your own. This is more so so you can plug
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in and just go for it. Yeah, very much so.
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And I love the .2 second additional to the GCD.
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It seems very small and it's not going to matter to the people
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that it's intended not to matter to.
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If you're learning and you're not that that sure that .2
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second delay is probably way shorter than it would take you
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to be like, OK, what am I supposed to press next or
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analyze the situation for people who know the rotation down pat
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for the people who are like pushing like being like I'm
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going to do my rotation so good. That point to is a genuine DPS
9:17
loss. So.
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Sorry, I want to pause. Maybe maybe I'm not right and
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you are not misunderstanding. But just to be really clear, the
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point to GCD punishment is only for single button mode.
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So there is a mode that's coming in where literally you will
9:30
press 1 button in order and and won't have to do or like do
9:34
anything beyond that. But sorry, maybe that was what
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you were talking about. OK, sorry.
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Yeah, that's sorry. I apologize because you were
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talking about two things. So I should I should clarify
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that it is that it is specifically the one button
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rotation that people were worried would like would cause
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them to be forced to use this because there is something to be
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said about something that is more baseline in the game.
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Even if it is opt in instead of opt out, there is a there is a
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lot more of a assumed you should at least use this versus
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something something else that's outside the game.
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But that like I said, the people who are going to be like, oh,
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you need to do it for your DPS increase.
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The fact that actually, if you learn it yourself, you should
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be, should be better on just the basic, let's say dummy rotation
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is one thing. Just like you were talking about
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earlier. The fact that it, it's context
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sensitivity isn't phenomenal. Like it doesn't know when the
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ads are about to spawn and maybe you should hold that that cool
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down to line up with the ads that are about to come in.
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It doesn't doesn't know that hey, the the boss is about to
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switch over from like phase one to phase two and whatever that
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entails. So there's a lot of that kind of
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context that this add on should like the way they explained it
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should not be smart enough to do that.
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And if you are basing it on the hit Kelly add on the Kelly
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doesn't do that. It doesn't integrate itself with
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time is as far as I know when I played with it back in the day.
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So there's there's a lot to be said about like it as a learning
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tool and an accessibility tool, but not something that's going
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to take over all the guilds and everybody's going to be like,
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Sean, what are you doing? Actually having five buttons
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there. You need one button and press
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that. I genuinely don't think that,
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Sean, from your look at this, do you think forward like the one
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button thing? Do you think this is ever going
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to be a point of discussion for your Guild?
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Not my mythic Guild, but 100%. I think there are at least 1/4
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of my AOTC Guild that would benefit greatly from using the
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one button mode, if not more. I'm going to be honest, if
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you're not orange parsing, if you're a normal Raider or an or
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heroic only Raider and you're not orange parsing, you're
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probably going to benefit from this button, this one button
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mode, because it never messes up your rotation and it opens you
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up to do mechanics better because you don't have to think
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about what buttons you're pressing.
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You can focus on not dying. So if you're alive, you're doing
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better. You're making me hate this
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again. I was so fine and I'm completely
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like, if you guys are right and this is actually going to be a
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benefit to like like this is going to be more powerful than
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just playing on your own. I'm kind of back to this sucks
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like I I did. I I think I will say I think the
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Blizzard is good. Like if that is true, I think
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Blizzard will nerf it because I did.
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That was not what Ian said said this was supposed to be.
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This is not supposed to be a thing that's better for the
12:36
average player. This is supposed to be an
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accessibility tool. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my
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my understanding is that like the point of the single button
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mode is that it's only for like really extreme examples.
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But the average player is blue and purple.
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Parsing that is the average player.
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Poor players are green and Gray. Average players are blue and
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purple. Exceptional are orange, pink and
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gold. So if you're not in that band,
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if you're a green parser, you're below average.
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So you will gain benefit from it almost guaranteed.
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I, I I I I would never tell anybody.
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Hey, you have to turn this on. So but but for Full disclosure,
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I use when IDPSI use Achille with old Achille I will green
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parse at best in any situation, no matter what boss it is, no
13:21
matter where it is. As soon as I turn it on, I go to
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purple right away and I use it. The way I use it is I like I
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know the fight. I know when a sudden if it tells
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me to use a cool down, when I know I should hold the cool
13:34
down, I just hold the cool down. And and because you can set it
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to show you 3 the next three steps.
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So just hold the cool down, do the step after it until you're
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holding cool downs or do your your you know, your your
13:45
rotation, your your normal non cool down rotation in that
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interim. And this is actually where I
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think the one button micro is going to be strongest and why I
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am most excited about it in those moments when it's high
13:55
pressure, high mechanic and you're really focused on just
13:58
being alive and dodging minds on mugsy or you're trying to get
14:02
something done that you you had. You can't mess it up and and
14:05
your rotation falls off. And this happens to anybody
14:07
who's not a world first Raider. You drop your rotation.
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If you're not getting 100% off time on a boss, your rotation
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suffers for you hit the wrong button, you have dead.
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And this is what I also don't think the GCD penalty is going
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to be a punishment at all because if I go and look at logs
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for anybody who's in that range of blue and lower, there's so
14:24
many ways the GCDS. So who cares if you're only
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having a point to take a penalty?
14:29
It's better than the 18. You didn't do it all anyway, if
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you're able to go from using the one button macro to mixing in
14:38
your own rotation. So I, I'll send a cool down when
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I know I should use a cool down or I will pull out of the rope,
14:44
pull out of it when and do my rotation normally when I, I need
14:47
to and then go back into it when I'm not like in a, in a high
14:51
stress moment, high movement moment.
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I use the use the one button macro when I'm out of that
14:54
moment and it's just regular, you know, you gotta breathe
14:56
through a second. I switch back into doing it
14:58
myself. I, I don't see I'm, I'm, I'm
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gonna use it, I'm gonna try it. I'm gonna see how it goes.
15:04
I, I suspect it makes me a better DPS and, and the reason I
15:10
know because I had this discussion with my EU Guild and,
15:13
and a lot of them have said, listen, if this game boils down
15:15
to 1 button, that's not fun for me, I'm not going to play it.
15:17
You don't have to, but I don't want to be a burden on my team.
15:20
It bothers me to know that I could be doing something that
15:23
makes my team better and I'm, I'm actively choosing to not do
15:27
that and it's making the team worse.
15:30
I can't function that way but. But that's the reason that I
15:34
don't want this to be powerful. Right, but it's an accessibility
15:38
feature. If they don't make it fun, if
15:40
they don't make it at least on par, then they're basically
15:43
telling everybody who does need it for accessibility.
15:46
You don't get to RAID. You don't matter.
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No, no, no, no. Sorry.
15:49
Let me, let me. OK, I need to interject here,
15:52
right? If it is so proficient that the
15:58
majority of players benefit from using it instead of doing the
16:02
rotation on the by themselves, it will become de facto not
16:08
mandatory. It's not that you have to use
16:10
it, you can play comparably well, but if it takes you from a
16:15
blue parse to a purple parse or a purple parse to an orange
16:17
parse. I don't.
16:19
I don't think it'll get you to orange, but I it'll definitely,
16:22
it'll definitely get you to at least blue, I guarantee.
16:24
But I'm just saying like if it bumps you up a grade level from
16:26
what people are are running with on like Warcraft logs or
16:31
whatever rating system that that happens to be king at the time,
16:34
right? The mindset of the player base
16:37
will be that it is mandatory. And that is very much against
16:42
what Ian was trying trying to do, right?
16:46
If it is a something that is installed in the game
16:51
out-of-the-box and it improves your improves your performance,
16:56
even if it keeps you within blue, but it takes you from like
16:59
low blue to high blue or takes you from like high blue into
17:02
purple, right? So many people will say, well, I
17:06
have to use I have no choice. Why am I even bothering using
17:09
using my brain right. And the entirety of the
17:14
second-half of the the conversation was about mandatory
17:20
add-ons. And I don't think Blizzard wants
17:21
to create mandatory add-ons. So if it at .2 it doesn't
17:26
matter. As you say, Lex is right.
17:29
They will make it a two second GCD.
17:30
They will make it and it's not good unless then they would.
17:34
I think they would write is that it's not.
17:36
Supposed to be like like like it's it's only supposed to be
17:39
usable. Like OK, I'm going to be super
17:41
honest, like not to go back into doomerism.
17:44
If it is the type of thing where like I as I'm going to be
17:47
honest, I'm a green part parsing player.
17:49
If I don't use it, I feel like a burden.
17:51
I'm probably going to quit, right?
17:52
Like that will make this game not fun enough that I'm probably
17:54
going to walk or go back to healing, I guess because you
17:56
know, you can't do that with healing.
17:58
That was. What other people said they
17:59
would just swap to healer full time, Yeah.
18:02
It's like, and I think that's true because like as much as
18:05
Sean, you want to say, yeah, I'm going to use it because I don't
18:08
want to feel like a burden to my team.
18:10
That's a lot of people down the spectrum of gaming.
18:14
And while your reaction will be I'm going to turn it on because
18:17
I don't want to be a burden, another person will reaction
18:20
will be I have to turn it on because I don't want to be a
18:23
burden. And now I don't feel like I'm
18:24
playing. So I'm just not going to play,
18:27
and that's incredibly damaging. I I agree with everything you're
18:32
both saying. I don't see a world where this
18:34
doesn't make players who aren't exceptionally skilled better.
18:39
I don't see it because you're making it an accessibility, a
18:42
feature for accessibility. There are people who genuinely
18:45
need this to play. They have pain issues, they have
18:47
physical disabilities. They can't play otherwise.
18:49
And if you make it not even if if you make it so all they do is
18:53
Gray parse, why have it at all? They're going to just feel
18:56
horrible, you know what I mean? You can play the raid, but
18:59
you're going to, you're going to suck.
19:00
I, I don't think Blizzard's going to do that.
19:02
I don't think Blizzard's going to do that and I don't.
19:04
I wouldn't want them. To I think they can and I think
19:06
that like people are conflating accessibility with a lot of
19:10
things. I think that the accessibility
19:12
that they're talking about with this one button rotation and
19:16
with the Kelly, what comes next is the ability to learn to get a
19:23
understanding of your rotation without having to go to Icy
19:26
Veins and read up on it and then practice without having to go
19:29
out outside of the game. So you can go through and be
19:32
like, oh, OK, that's what my rotation is.
19:35
And I can now try and mimic that myself and get it and get an
19:40
understanding. And I think that's the
19:42
accessibility that we're more focused that Blizzard is more
19:45
focused on because if they start going like, hey, before you were
19:48
Gray parsing, but now with this one button thing, you can purple
19:51
parse. Anybody who isn't purple parsing
19:54
or better is doing themselves a disservice by not turning this
19:59
on. And that's incredibly dangerous
20:02
territory for an any add on Blizzard made or not.
20:05
Yeah, I don't know. So I do think it's those are the
20:07
the two different conversations. The rotational helper 100% is a
20:10
great tool to learn a rotation for a class.
20:13
We shouldn't need 3 page guides and 30 minute videos to learn
20:16
how to play a new class. The rotation helper is is
20:18
excellent for that. It's it's why Achillea is
20:20
excellent. I think it's going to be
20:21
excellent when Blizzard designs it because they know the API
20:23
inside a note so they're going to do it right.
20:25
I also think we would benefit from simplifying the complexity
20:28
in some of these classes. So you don't need a program to
20:32
tell you, OK, you can cast execute now because because you
20:35
have two procs of sudden death and you have two stacks of this,
20:38
but you only have one stack of this.
20:39
So don't execute yet. Like we shouldn't have to
20:41
compute that. So I think those are two, two
20:44
separate arguments that I don't think the one button helper, I
20:47
don't think the one button macro helps anybody learn a rotation.
20:49
You're not going to learn anything because you're just
20:50
going to be hitting A1 button. I do think it's important for
20:53
for people who who can't like physically can't play the game
20:56
for for whatever reason, whatever their their disability
20:59
is. And I don't think it's, I don't
21:01
think Blizzard wants to be in a situation where they tell them
21:03
we're going to give you this function so that you can play
21:05
the game and but you're just going to be really bad at it.
21:11
I actually think you're wrong. The quote from Ann is sorry,
21:13
maybe I'm wrong, but I'm sorry. That was very impressive.
21:16
But the the the quote from Ann is quote that it's there for
21:20
people who maybe honestly aren't interested in the gameplay of
21:22
mastering their spec. They want to explore Azoroth and
21:25
experience the story and mechanics get in the way of that
21:27
sometimes. This should be for them.
21:29
They're like, they're here. This is for people who want to
21:31
experience the story and explore as Roth makes me think that
21:34
they're thinking of this as primarily for open world
21:37
players. This is to get people who
21:38
otherwise could not play World of Warcraft at all playing World
21:42
of Warcraft. This is not to get people who
21:44
otherwise would be playing World of Warcraft into rating.
21:47
I could be. I really hope I'm not wrong.
21:49
Like I, I, I don't mean that badly because I like, I feel, I
21:53
feel like on the one hand, like, yeah, yeah, it's it's it's like
21:57
accessibility, but also like the the game can't be the it's it's
22:03
equally like like the a world first Raider could play it by
22:06
pressing 1 button, right? That's not a reasonable
22:10
accommodation. I don't.
22:11
Think and I, I don't think they will, I like it.
22:13
The, the GC difference would matter to the, to the players at
22:16
that level and there like there are rotational things that they
22:18
would do slightly differently, but I, I can't see them
22:21
designing it and not having it follow your ideal rotation.
22:24
They're not going to make it. But I think they're going to, I
22:27
think they're going to punish I, I think that if it does turn out
22:29
to the point to GCD cooldown isn't punished, I, I, I think
22:31
they're going to punish you with like GCDS and, and, and I, I
22:36
also, I also, honestly, I'm not there's.
22:37
Also people on my rate team that would still benefit from it.
22:40
I, I, we had people 7 seconds don't hit a button, 7 seconds
22:43
they haven't had casting ability.
22:47
Sorry, we're doing, we're doing a lot to get our opinions out.
22:51
And so like I, I do want to sort of reintroduce some structure
22:54
into this. Yeah.
22:57
And so Sean, I believe that if everybody could use this as a
23:02
helping tool, it would be great. I think that that would be
23:05
fantastic to to like get people into learning new specs and new
23:12
hero talents and new classes and that work.
23:15
And that to me is increasing accessibility.
23:17
I think it means that when people are going around and
23:20
doing story content and such into like, man, I really wanted
23:23
to do the undead heritage armor or the Sylvanas loyalty thing or
23:28
the hunter lodge, whatever, that they could just jump onto it, do
23:33
this one button and focus on what they really want to focus
23:36
on. Which is like, oh, I unlocked
23:37
this cool trans mog and oh, I unlocked this cool trans mog and
23:42
oh I, I got to experience this story.
23:45
That to me is like opening up a world of accessibility and help
23:50
helping out people. And that's where I see the
23:53
single button thing being in there.
23:56
If they are going into follower dungeons where the mechanics
24:00
aren't going to be as punishing and therefore you could be
24:03
following this one button thing and sort of being like, OK, I'm
24:05
going to like mouse click and move, move around because you've
24:08
got the you can Click to a position point.
24:11
Now that I think is part of it, where like the cognitive load
24:17
might be something that was holding them back.
24:18
And so removing that from the rotation let's them focus on
24:22
other parts. But in terms of rating at a
24:27
organized level, which I'm going to put at normal, right, because
24:33
rating at normal is an organized level going into mythic zeros is
24:39
organized level. So I'm not even talking about
24:43
mythic rating or high level mythic plus, I'm talking about
24:46
just strict organized level. I think at that point this the
24:53
use of the one button should be an impediment to the level that
24:59
you should be playing, right? And I think that that's where I
25:02
would want to see this aimed at in terms of it's, it's
25:07
helpfulness. I can go through through heroic
25:10
because I can cue into that. I can go into LFR and it'll give
25:13
me enough. And who cares if I am green or
25:16
Gray parsing in an LFR I like, I'm never going to see these
25:20
people again. But once you go into the
25:23
organized level, that's where I see the Hikelly analog starting
25:29
to take over, where it's like, I'm going to tell you what's
25:32
next. I'm going to say, hey, this is
25:33
when you should switch over to your AOE, because now the next
25:36
suggested thing is this. But you now need to input these
25:40
buttons yourself. Now there is a portion of the
25:43
player base that is in a bad area.
25:47
When I put those goals at those people who have limitations,
25:50
right? Where this one button thing is
25:52
genuinely helping them do stuff. But now I've put this this
25:58
arbitrary wall because I've I've made this decision that beyond
26:03
here, it's not going to get you the performance as somebody who
26:08
is able bodied and able to do this thing, these sort of inputs
26:13
manually, right? And I have to live with that as
26:19
somebody who's making that, making the call on this podcast.
26:23
And the designers have to live with that as somebody who's
26:26
making the call for the entirety of the game.
26:29
But in all cases, where the line is drawn is arbitrary.
26:33
And I think that in all cases, there will be parts of the
26:38
player base that are going to be negatively impacted.
26:41
And so I would like for you, Sean, and then I'm going to pass
26:47
over to you, Lex, to sort of say like where you would want these
26:50
two to come in and then where you feel like the impact is
26:56
going to be. So let me pass it over to you
26:58
first, Sean. I, I would, I mean the path that
27:02
you just described sounds great. I, I don't think that's going to
27:05
happen, but the path you describe sounds great.
27:07
I do think the rotational helper should be used by anybody
27:12
learning a new class or anybody even on their own class.
27:13
Like I have a friend who also uses Achille.
27:16
He's a Hall of Fame Raider. He uses Achille and he keeps it
27:20
in the corner for if he loses where he's at in his rotation or
27:23
if something is really crazy, he can refer back to it.
27:25
And then he, he goes, you know, back knows his rotation.
27:28
Otherwise, outside of that, just use it as like a reminder.
27:30
Those tools are great for that. There's also a huge portion of
27:33
the, of the, of the, of the player base said when you say
27:35
Achille, they, they think, oh, you're terrible.
27:37
Oh, you use Achille. Oh, you're bad, you're bad at
27:39
the game. Like, well, this guy's a Hall of
27:40
Fame Raider and his parcels are all better than yours and he
27:44
blows you away. And I think plus.
27:45
So maybe don't be so judgmental. Yeah, I don't know.
27:51
I just I hope you're right. I hope it's not something that
27:54
where the vast majority of people that are doing normal and
27:58
heroic grades and that's where they cap won't benefit from
28:03
using it. I just don't see a world where
28:05
that happens. I also suspect that the new
28:09
common insult in pugs when your damage is low is maybe you
28:13
should switch to 1 button. Yeah, guaranteed, guaranteed.
28:19
Yeah, I don't, I mean, I don't want Lex to quit the game And,
28:22
and I, and like I said, I don't for me, I would try it out and
28:25
see how it works. And because I don't want to feel
28:29
like a burden on my team. Nobody on my team would ever
28:32
make me feel like a burden, you know what I mean?
28:33
I, I and everybody all know I'm a, I'm a tank anyway.
28:36
I, I, I don't need any of that stuff for tanking, but yeah,
28:39
like it's, that's entirely a thing on me.
28:41
But there are a lot of people out there who are like, you
28:44
know, genuinely at risk of being cut from teams if they don't
28:47
outperform other players. And I don't know, I just, if you
28:51
can focus on mechanics and there are other teams that are like,
28:54
hey, we, we choose our roster based on who does the best on
28:56
mechanics. Like, well, my damage is middle,
28:58
but I survived every mechanic because I, I didn't have to
29:00
think about anything else. You know, it I the penalty on it
29:04
would have to be so huge for it not to be a benefit to I think a
29:09
lot of players. I think, yeah, I don't know.
29:12
I don't know, Lex, you played an agency only Guild and I know you
29:18
said you were talking to Guild about it.
29:21
They like they what's their stance like?
29:24
Is it like hey use it if you want, Don't use it if you don't
29:26
want? Yes, our and this is what I
29:28
taught. My dog is really, really needy
29:31
today, so she's breaking my mic. Forgive me the.
29:37
Viewers at home Lex is leaned over at a 90° angle into her
29:41
mind she's. Getting a really good look at
29:44
her Warcraft Collector's Edition headset right now.
29:47
It still looks wonderful all these months later.
29:50
This is this is better than the time that she, my 40 LB dog,
29:54
decided that she really needed a hug and climbed bodily into my
29:58
lap. That was 5 minutes ago.
30:00
Yeah, that was 5 minutes ago exactly.
30:01
She's having a rough night, but shit, it's about to happen
30:05
again. So I so first of all, I, when I
30:09
talked to my officer team, what they said basically is our
30:11
philosophy has not changed just because the add on became within
30:15
the game. And our philosophy has always
30:16
been, we will never require add-ons ever.
30:20
We have, we have players who don't use weak auras and that
30:22
means that if there's add on, like if there's a boss that like
30:24
a weak aura would basically clean it up.
30:25
We figure out a different way. We some of our, our folks use
30:31
Hakeeli. We we certainly don't require it
30:34
even like even for people, people like me who are parsing
30:37
like grey and green in most of our fights, we will never be
30:40
like, Hey, you got like we'll coach.
30:42
And if you're basically, if your DPS stays consistently below the
30:46
tanks, we might have conversations about like sitting
30:49
or cutting you. We overwhelmingly our priority
30:54
is that we have a good time together and that's and and that
30:58
works for us. We have some really, really
31:01
talented players who have even like left and come back because
31:04
they were like, you know what, I tried higher level rating and I
31:07
would rather hang out with the Tavern.
31:09
We've also had higher level of people who left for higher level
31:12
play rating and are doing amazing and we love them and we
31:14
support them. Right, There's multiple ways.
31:16
But anyway, so yes, my Guild has within.
31:20
I mean, this is within the officer chaps.
31:22
This hasn't gone to the community as a whole, but we
31:25
have the, the, the officers are all, to my knowledge, on the
31:30
same page that none of us would require anyone to take anything.
31:37
And I, I guess that's also the other thing.
31:39
If you're like me and you're like, Oh my God, the idea of
31:43
playing a single button mode makes me want to delete every
31:46
single account I've ever had and start playing Final Fantasy.
31:49
Talk to your team. Ideally, they're on the same
31:52
page as you. If they're not on the same page
31:54
as you look at others, right, Find other teams because I get
31:59
it. I also really do not like I one
32:02
of my, my overwhelming frustrations with World of
32:03
Warcraft is that it does feel like it is becoming
32:06
significantly more rote, right? My dad used to be a, a Raider in
32:10
like Wrath, like, and like at a pretty high level, like at the
32:13
point where you have to like apply and go through everything
32:15
and you might, you're getting fat half the nights and
32:17
everything and you have to like prove yourself to go in.
32:21
And, and he, so he was telling me all the stories of like his
32:24
old rating team members who like had their like spreadsheets and
32:27
they would be like, Hey, actually, I noticed an
32:28
irritation. You did this, but like,
32:30
actually, if you did this file and this file, it would be
32:31
significantly better. And dah, dah, dah.
32:33
And I kind of, I, I know that that's never going to come back
32:36
because at this point, the like the, the spreadsheet is the icy
32:40
veins and it's already done for us.
32:43
But, and maybe that's not true. Maybe at like a higher level
32:46
people are, you know, doing a little bit more like hyper
32:49
needle comparison. But like, yeah, it does kind of
32:52
make me sad that everything is is told to me.
32:57
Like honestly, if somebody was like, hey, I have a Guild that's
33:00
super friendly and cool and we are all like, if like sign an
33:04
oath that you will never watch a boss video and you will never
33:10
read Icy Veins and everything you have to either figure out by
33:13
playing or by talking to other guildies.
33:15
I don't think I leave my Guild 'cause I love my Guild, but I
33:17
think about it 'cause that sounds really fun for me.
33:22
But anyway, that whole long ramble was to say I'm, I, I, I'm
33:27
basically at the same point Manny's at.
33:28
I think that this is something that I want to make it so that
33:30
people can play the game if they otherwise would not have the
33:34
ability to play the game and raid to a degree, but I don't
33:40
want this to ever. I, I, I think that it would be
33:42
really destructive for the game if the like like 50% of players
33:48
would just immediately do better if they switched to this mode.
33:51
I think that would be devastating for the gameplay as
33:56
a whole. Can't wait to find out guys.
33:58
I can't. I'm so excited to try this out
34:00
on the PTR. I definitely want to see this on
34:03
the PTR and it is a question about like how much do they go
34:07
for accessibility and empowering players that might otherwise
34:10
face barriers versus like how much they want to make this sort
34:16
of enforced part of the UI, right?
34:20
And like it can be as simple as whether when you get on day one
34:24
of 11 point 1.7, whether it's automatically on or if it's opt
34:29
in like they had with the new cooldown manager.
34:33
And so it seems like with these new add-ons, because looking
34:36
back at it, I think this has been a challenge that they've
34:38
been looking at for a while. So the cooldown manager was a
34:42
very weak start to this and now they've said, OK, we're ramping
34:47
up. And that was the second part of
34:50
this conversation because it's not just the fact that we're
34:55
getting this cooldown manager. It's not that we're getting a
34:57
Kelly sort of tell me when kind of thing.
35:00
It's not that we're going to have just the one button, but
35:03
they're looking deeper at things like removing real time raid
35:09
events so that add-ons like DBM won't work anymore and then
35:15
putting in their own integrated raid timers so that you have
35:20
that. They're looking at shutting down
35:23
basically weak cores. We kept saying weak cores, weak
35:26
cores. The king of add-ons is something
35:28
that days might be numbered. And so there's a long
35:33
conversation about this and I really implore everyone, do what
35:37
Lex did. Watch the video multiple times
35:41
make sure you're not just going off of what some angry
35:44
disenfranchised person who jumps into your discord and starts
35:47
saying they've they're going to ruin Wow starts doing because
35:51
there's there is a lot in the video.
35:53
So with the what I considered a change in philosophy, it looks
36:00
like they're going to be pulling in a lot of the add-ons that
36:03
people feel are mandatory that you have that you have to get in
36:07
order to function at a certain level and they're going to be
36:11
bringing that into the core game.
36:13
So I got a question for you guys.
36:15
Outside of DBM and we cores, what do you think are the
36:19
add-ons that like jumped your mind of saying like, OK, that's
36:22
on the hit list, go ahead blacks.
36:25
I bet they're gonna put in location like a coordinates
36:29
tracker, which I think you have to add on and either I'm really
36:32
stupid and it's somewhere in the game or you have to use it in an
36:34
add on. First of all, I think it's
36:36
that's one thing that I think it's ridiculous is not in the
36:38
core game as it stands. But I I think that's like, I
36:42
think Tomcat is one of the first things that'll I don't even have
36:44
it downloaded. And I know that most people have
36:45
Tomcat downloaded. Yeah, TomTom and and all of
36:50
those. Yeah, that, that's very good.
36:52
Good one. Yeah, I could easily see that
36:54
they got the pins. All they just need to do is just
36:57
like actually unlock the game coordinates and so you can share
36:59
it. I think that's a big one.
37:00
What about you, Sean? So bigwigs DBM, those are huge.
37:04
I'd love to have actual Blizzard timers for these bosses because
37:07
that would be amazing and would reduce the need for a lot of
37:10
updates early on, especially the bigwigs for teams that are
37:13
rating like really early in the tier.
37:15
Details. I want to see a Blizzard in game
37:17
details that gives, you know, breakdowns on damage, healing,
37:21
damage taken, interrupts, dispels.
37:24
I want all the same tracking we get from details because that
37:26
stuff's important. It's you know, it's good to know
37:28
all that information. You don't need to just see who
37:30
did the most damage. We know it'll be the people with
37:32
the one button, so it's not a big deal.
37:34
Sorry, Lex. No, it's fine.
37:38
I just, I just want everybody to know that Sean had put a full
37:42
disclaimer out before this episode that he and Lex were not
37:45
going to be friends anymore after this episode.
37:47
We. May not be.
37:48
We may not be. You don't have to say May
37:50
anymore. It's all right.
37:51
Keep going though. I don't think they're going to
37:53
get rid of We Gore's entirely. I think We Gore has a real big,
37:56
really good function. I know they're going to limit
38:00
some of the things that it can do, which is good.
38:03
Ian talked about this makes me nervous, but Ian talked about
38:07
adjusting the way they design bosses if they remove the
38:09
ability to have computational solutions to boss mechanics.
38:14
But that's the like it needs to. It needs to be something it has
38:20
to have. Like they talked about
38:23
disarmament to this arms race against the add on developers.
38:26
I would really like to see Blizzard take a tier and just
38:31
show us a tier with the philosophy that they have for
38:33
how they want to design this stuff with.
38:36
Leave wikors up, let us have what we have.
38:38
Show us, hey, this is what we envisioned for a tier so that we
38:41
can see it and then we can be feel OK, you know what?
38:45
So you put your guns down, we see you've put your guns down.
38:49
We are now OK with you taking away our guns type thing as as
38:54
opposed to the opposite, which is they take our guns away 1st
38:58
and then they still have their guns and then they forgot to
39:00
unload their guns. Oh, they're shooting Manny.
39:02
They're shooting us. So, so Sean, in this scenario,
39:07
for a good apples to apples comparison, would you be willing
39:11
to play a season 4 where all of the raids get adjusted?
39:16
And that's a big perfect way to test it before implementing the
39:20
shutdown of the API and all of that into the next expansion.
39:26
100%, like 100% I would do that. And don't give us those bullshit
39:29
affixes. Just give us the raids adjusted
39:31
the way you want to make them. That would be great.
39:34
Yeah. Show us what you got.
39:37
You put down your arms, we'll put down our we'll gladly give
39:39
them away. I just need to see that.
39:41
You. I just need to see that they
39:44
understand, because they've said they understand in the past and
39:48
they very clearly don't. They don't.
39:51
Well, and to give to give Blizzard a little bit of Flack.
39:55
The other thing I will say is if we've been designing raids and
39:59
Mythic Plus and everything for so long.
40:02
They will not be able to do a full mindset set shift within
40:05
one tier. So I think I, I just to give
40:08
them a little grace. I do think 1 tier, like the
40:12
first tier that we don't have access to the, the weak ores and
40:15
everything that they're thinking and like, and, and they're
40:18
pulling it into fully their own UII think it's going to be a
40:20
nightmare. I think it's going to be a mess.
40:22
I think there's no other way around it.
40:23
I think it they're going to have to feel it out and they're going
40:25
to have to be like, oh God, we thought this was something that
40:28
we could do with our own internal UI, but actually this
40:30
one mechanic is too hard. We need to fix this and I, I
40:33
think there's going to be a season of tooling and I think
40:35
that the first season we're going to be doomering on this
40:37
podcast and we're going to be like, this is the worst thing
40:39
ever and I'm quitting the game. And then I think they're going
40:42
to settle it through. It so so Lex, Lex, in your
40:44
scenario, would you prefer them that they under tuned things and
40:48
it's just like, OK, I guess we can ratchet it up a little bit
40:52
and then in a later season they go, oh, OK, we've we've hit the
40:56
wall. All right, we're not going to do
40:57
that again. Or would you prefer that they
41:00
over tune and bring things down? I see Sean make OK, sorry while
41:05
you think about that Sean has been making head suggested so
41:08
Sean you can give your answer first you.
41:09
Definitely start easier and then add on afterwards.
41:13
You do. If you you lose players the
41:15
other direction, if you start easier and build up, players
41:19
will stay and and play longer. The the top end players are
41:23
going to clear it quickly get bored, go on Twitter and say how
41:26
easy it was and it wasn't wasn't any fun, but they're going to do
41:29
that anyway. They did it this tier.
41:31
They do it every tier. They said the laundry was too
41:33
easy was trying to pulse. So don't listen to those people.
41:39
Make it easy. Let people get and then Bill,
41:41
OK, we did this. It worked.
41:43
Everybody survived the no week auras.
41:46
Now let's add on. Hey, what can we do next?
41:47
All right, let's add, let's, let's let's amp it up and find
41:50
that balance. If you come out of the gate too
41:52
hard, you're going to people are just going to start look at look
41:55
at mythic plus last season, it came out too hard.
41:58
People said, you know what, I don't need to do this.
41:59
I'm just going to go Delve. Do that.
42:01
Who would quit mythic class after saying they were going to
42:04
work really hard on mythic class and then go to Dells instead
42:06
because they really didn't actually have to.
42:07
Who do that? And and to Alexis point, those
42:10
same people, whoever they are, don't return in the next season,
42:13
even if it is made easier, it's harder to win people back.
42:16
So, yeah, I agree with what you're saying there, Sean.
42:18
So the reason that I kind of like mentally checked out there
42:21
for a second when you're giving me that option is I started
42:22
dreaming of this amazing magical world where they somehow have
42:25
enough Dell devs. So what they could do is they
42:27
could make like a fully separate server that like is just for
42:30
like whatever either you know, opt in or players who are
42:35
particularly like like super high level players.
42:37
So they can be testing this at a higher level and have like 2
42:41
simultaneous like, you know, you have the retail World of
42:44
Warcraft, but then also which you know what they could do.
42:47
No, they would hate this, but wouldn't it be fun if they did
42:48
that with Classic? They did, you know, poor Classic
42:51
players. They wouldn't get anything.
42:52
But they did get a lot more players.
42:53
Because I wouldn't want to test it anywhere.
42:55
So in my magical world where, Yeah, because the thing about
42:58
Classic players is what they really want to do is new stuff.
43:00
That's why they're playing Classic, because they want to
43:02
play this game like no one's ever played it before.
43:05
I don't. Know why people are upset about
43:06
1 button? They just we have classic.
43:08
They love that that's only three buttons.
43:12
Wow. Listen guys, they're at Mop now.
43:15
It's evolved way beyond three buttons.
43:17
It's at 4 now, friends. Anyway.
43:20
So wouldn't it be great if we could, like I, I would love it
43:22
if they could be testing this simultaneously and outside of
43:24
retail entirely so they can really experiment and play with
43:26
people who are expecting they're being experimented on.
43:28
But that's not on the table because I'm also the person on
43:31
this podcast who every other day says they're working the devs
43:33
too hard. So I can't be like, we'll put
43:34
give the devs more work. So in that case, given that that
43:37
option's off the table, I think, yeah, easier than a tune harder.
43:41
OK, beyond the details being actually integrated, I think
43:45
that there is something to be said about the API and how that
43:49
hooks into those sort of stuff. When you have details that are
43:52
that are integrated, what kind of information can you pull out
43:55
of that that that you can then give to a website?
43:58
Like there's so many sites that use the API that the same things
44:03
that the add-ons are using in order to get their information,
44:06
you're looking at Warcraft logs, you're looking at radar IO,
44:09
right? You're looking at all these
44:10
things that will go and be like, OK, we're going to go analyze
44:14
this and say, oh, you could have done better here.
44:17
You could have like, this is how many interrupts were done.
44:19
This is the timeline of the fight.
44:22
And that stuff can be done live right now.
44:25
If they shut that stuff down and it's sort of an integrated 1, is
44:29
that something that they go, OK, here's a website you can go to
44:33
and you can pull off the logs. And then it becomes like a lot
44:36
more like how we used to do I, I don't know, like theory crafting
44:42
where you would have to like download it onto your, your
44:46
platform and then run through it and everything.
44:48
Like how restrictive do we think it's going to get?
44:51
And how restrictive do we want it to be?
44:53
Because like, as soon as you allow it to be instantaneous,
44:57
instantaneous access, then who cares if you can't see it right
45:01
on inside the thing. You just have an overlay or it
45:03
on a second screen or something. So they actually dialed that
45:06
back like 3 tiers ago. I think it was echo of an
45:11
Etherium was the fight that input that that that encouraged
45:13
them to dial it back because people were using the actual in
45:16
game live Warcraft, the the in game fight log to make overlays
45:20
for that fight. And Blizzard said, hey, we don't
45:22
want that. And they actually changed it so
45:23
you can no longer access an A a fight log until that fight has
45:28
ended. So it's all right.
45:31
And I can't see them changing it from that.
45:33
You definitely want to access to a poll right after the poll ends
45:36
to, to analyze it. I don't think that's going to
45:38
change. So, and, and it's because you
45:41
can't read it mid poll, you can't generate any of those
45:45
overlays any more like you were able to.
45:46
So I, I think they've already curbed that, that potential
45:51
issue and I'm glad they did and I'm, I'm glad where it's at now.
45:55
Yeah, I really don't want people being able to do things like
45:57
that. I think that especially given
45:59
that there is a bit of a bullying problem in World 4
46:02
craft. Sometimes I think that for like
46:05
people pugging groups and like LFG not LFG.
46:10
What am I thinking of? I lost mythic plus but pugs.
46:12
Pugs is the one I'm looking for. I'm having a It's been a long.
46:15
Day, any kind of group, group Finder activity, whether it's
46:19
like automated or manual, Yeah, I get that.
46:21
Yeah, I, I, I would like them to not have an easy time.
46:25
I, I would like it to be hard for them to pull up the fight
46:28
and be like, oh, you did this thing wrong these five times
46:32
because I don't want them to have more ammunition.
46:38
And for like for the, the good people who are not who just want
46:41
the access to the information so they can coach long term because
46:44
they're in an established Guild. Just do that after the right or
46:48
after the basic plus or after the fight.
46:50
Again, yeah, it depends on the level that you're going at and
46:53
what's going on. Like even in a Group, A group
46:55
like let's say I was part of the Timbermont Tavern, I could see a
47:00
scenario where it's like, OK, we've been doing like 3 or 4
47:04
polls. We keep having this issue.
47:06
Let's go look at, let's go look at like what what's been going
47:10
on there? And like maybe you're looking at
47:12
a video and then looking back at, at stuff and you're like,
47:16
hey, everybody take your 5 minute break.
47:17
Go look at this video. It's something I can easily see
47:19
Kirk doing. Yeah, I honestly, I don't want
47:22
them to touch Warcraft logs. I want them to leave that
47:24
independent. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but
47:26
like that I, I that sort of thing, I think it's just better
47:30
managed like held externally and managed externally versus like
47:33
details, which is giving you like, well, I guess if it's
47:36
using Blizzard API, then actually they're probably gonna
47:38
be pretty identical, right? Like you can.
47:41
So maybe I'm making it up, maybe it doesn't matter.
47:45
Like the way the information is presented and how you can break
47:49
it down is obviously different between details and Warcraft
47:52
logs. Like when you are looking
47:55
through like your details or whatever damage meters you want
47:59
to look at, you can flip over and be like, oh, how many
48:02
interrupts were there and who did the did the interrupts.
48:05
But in Warcraft logs you can see when they did it.
48:08
You can get a full timeline. You can see where people are
48:10
moving around the room. You can see when people were
48:13
taking damage versus the healing.
48:15
There's a lot of breakdown that is different between the two and
48:19
but they still pull from the same API and it and so when
48:23
Sean, you're saying like, hey, the fight needs to be completed
48:25
and then you'll get that, that information.
48:29
I think that's really great for Warcraft logs in a term in terms
48:34
of a damage meter. Oh, that needs to be instant.
48:37
That needs to be happening mid fight.
48:38
You need to. Yeah, that's that's what I was
48:41
going to say. Like it's not even just like the
48:43
damage meter. It might just be like a OK, I
48:45
just need to see how many people are interrupting and so I can
48:49
say like part way through a fight, Hey, Sean, I've only seen
48:53
two interrupts from you. Come on, stay on it.
48:55
It's just a coach towards it, like without being a jerk.
48:58
So like that's that's the sort of stuff where it's like causing
49:01
it to be in game in a closed system where people can't get to
49:06
it is will enable that kind of differentiator.
49:10
The other thing that is now kind of coming to mind, especially as
49:12
we're talking about Warcraft logs, is I know most add-ons are
49:16
a labor of love, but I think some people are making money off
49:21
of things like Patreons and stuff.
49:23
And I didn't even really process that until right now.
49:26
But like, some people are going to lose livelihoods off this
49:31
right? Yeah, not just Patreon.
49:33
Curseforge pays add on developers for downloads, so the
49:37
biggest ones, DBM bigwigs that are on essentially every single
49:40
player account could potentially be able to work, yeah.
49:47
Or I have to find something new to pivot to?
49:49
Yeah. I mean, I guess I don't see this
49:51
as a tragedy. I know.
49:53
Like it's people's livelihood I'm getting.
49:59
Yeah, everybody's gonna be. I become like, what's the
50:03
opposite of Ebenezer Scrooge? Like the the bum who's also
50:05
saying Bah, humbug. That's where I'm at right now
50:08
anyways. No, no.
50:10
But what I mean is that like it's a reality that as Blizzard
50:15
has integrated various things and such, add-ons that used to
50:18
be quite popular have become obsolete.
50:22
The original gear score, a lot of the things that use like
50:27
world markers that Blizzard was like, Nope, we're shutting that
50:30
down. Like it, it happens
50:31
consistently. This is no different other than
50:34
Blizzard has given a ton of warning for these people to
50:37
pivot. So I feel like they're doing it
50:39
in the nicest way possible. And so I don't consider this
50:44
like an absolute tragedy. It wasn't like they're saying
50:47
like, hey, guys, with the release of 11 point 1.7, all
50:50
add-ons are shut down. Good day to you, Sir.
50:52
Like it's so like it's just it feels like the best way that
50:56
they could have gone about this in a very forward facing way.
51:01
They're saying, hey, you're going to notice these add-ons
51:03
coming in, right? And hey, hey, Kelly, this was a
51:08
lot like your ad on Kelly. How many times did they say his
51:11
name like in that thing? I want to say I hope I would
51:16
like to see them keep it open so we can have the option.
51:19
Because based on the video that rotational helper looks like it
51:23
just lights up your action bars. I don't play with action bars on
51:28
so that's useless to me. But think about it this way, it
51:33
can be A modification splinter or or layer of the cooldown
51:40
manager, right? Which is basically for me I.
51:43
Don't use that garbage either. I don't use the cooldown manager
51:47
either, but like it further as they further improve things.
51:51
It'll happen and they're introducing it first and
51:55
iterating upon it before they take away the options for
51:58
anything else, which is also the best way that they could have
52:01
gone about this process. But for me, I use Kelly's add
52:06
on. I have my bars that are down at
52:08
the bottom, which I pretty much never look at.
52:11
And then the stuff that I'm actually tracking is right there
52:13
near my character so I can I can follow stuff and actually, sorry
52:18
Kelly, I don't think I use your thing anymore.
52:20
I use a week or so. Mine's closer to the cooldown
52:24
manager, just like actually good.
52:26
So like, that's what I'm using right now.
52:29
And as they make these changes, things will fall off.
52:32
I used to love bartender, bartender Addy bags, used to
52:36
love them. And then Blizzard added in stuff
52:39
and I was like, I want to see. Can I add Bagnon to my requested
52:44
add-ons that they implement? Because their bags are
52:47
atrocious. I would just like it's
52:49
subdivided into categories. That's something that bags.
52:52
It's so good. Whereas it's like Susan went to
52:54
my bag. It's like, oh, you're a potion.
52:55
There you go in that column. I'm good.
52:58
Yeah, give me any option between one giant bag with everything
53:01
thrown in haphazardly, and then eight small bags with everything
53:06
thrown in. You can organize those 8 bags to
53:11
like only have particular options.
53:12
Sorry, we're going off top. One thing that might solve both
53:16
our fears of this not actually being as good as the add-ons
53:19
themselves and my fears of people being out of work is
53:23
wouldn't it be great if they just hired the big add on
53:26
writers? Like wouldn't that be so easy?
53:28
Like they already know how to work with the World of Warcraft
53:30
system. They already know what players
53:31
want. They probably Ted like there's
53:33
probably reasons they're like no, we you know, we try to XYZ
53:35
things and we found that it didn't work so fast out that
53:39
would. Be great.
53:39
Did you see Kelly's tweet though?
53:41
No. What was it it?
53:43
Was just for a while the genie look firstly blizzards have been
53:46
after him for a while looking at like a quote from 2017 who
53:49
cares? But like his entire thing was
53:51
just the genie cuffs coming off being like, I'm free.
53:55
The Kelly is so, so happy to be rid of it.
53:57
It was such like I remember speaking to him when it was like
54:02
gearing up stuff for Dragonflight, right?
54:05
Because they did a lot of changes with Dragonflight with
54:08
the new stuff. And it's just like programming
54:12
all of those in with all the new talents because we switched
54:14
talent, talent stuff. It was just like, oh man, like
54:17
the amount of work that that required.
54:19
And for him, literally genie thing, I'm free.
54:22
Okay, did I take it back? It's perfect.
54:24
Never. Yeah, great.
54:25
But. That's one person.
54:26
One person and. Like I said, I would, I actually
54:29
much prefer that they hire add on writers and a give them
54:34
actual stable jobs right with actual pay.
54:36
I mean, I don't know how much better World of War Blizzard pay
54:39
is than, you know, writing your. Own or how stable it is?
54:42
I mean, didn't EA just layoff 400 people?
54:46
OK, I'm not saying they are like, you know, conscripted into
54:50
labor, but I, I, I would, I would, I would rather as a
54:54
player that the people who have been doing this for ages and
54:58
ages continue onwards versus World of Warcraft starts from
55:02
scratch. And like all the lessons learned
55:04
that weren't like verbally stated, like, oh, we used to do
55:07
it like this, but now we're doing it like this.
55:08
That's like the quiet tweaks that made things cleaner that we
55:11
can't even think of because they weren't put in our faces have to
55:14
be redone. Well, you look at the people
55:17
that they brought in for this Wow cast, this wasn't like this
55:21
wasn't Lynxy sitting down and talking with Ian.
55:24
This was a world first Raider and a very well known high level
55:29
player, right? That like even if they because
55:33
we know that Max isn't writing his own week or is he's got a
55:36
team that does that during the race, the world first, we know
55:39
that Dratnos isn't writing his own week or is he's just going
55:42
out and finding the best and recommending them to people.
55:46
These are people in the community that they brought in
55:48
to do this. And I think that's the exact
55:50
same sort of mentality that Bliss has been doing for years.
55:53
You look at Taryn Gregory, right?
55:55
He didn't do cinematics for video games throughout his
56:02
entire career. He did cinematics and like
56:05
Machina and then Blizzard was like come work for us.
56:08
You look at Ian has acoustis elitist jerks history and he was
56:13
brought in for encounter design and then worked his way up.
56:16
So like, this is definitely the company that is going to at
56:19
least consult, if not bring in these these people to to do
56:24
that. You always hear about like
56:26
people being like, oh, I'm doing my Blizzard tour and it's sort
56:29
of like, I think something's going on there.
56:31
How come I haven't seen any videos from you lately?
56:34
Drat knows what's going on. Oh, I'm just going on a little
56:36
vacation. Yeah.
56:38
So yeah, I think you. That's a pretty safe bet there,
56:42
Lex. All of that that makes me feel
56:43
better. I feel happy now.
56:45
Everything's fine. Sean's world is not going to
56:47
happen. They're not going to make me do
56:48
1 button. And even if they do, even if
56:49
they the big they does make me do 1 button, then it's OK
56:52
because my Guild is going to come in and give me a big hug
56:54
and say it's OK, Lex, we know that you part's really bad.
56:57
We like hanging out with you anyway.
56:58
And they won't make me do 1 button.
57:00
And also all everyone is going to have a job.
57:03
They just need you to cast something in that 7 second gap
57:06
where you're apparently doing nothing.
57:08
What are you doing in that 7 seconds?
57:09
Probably clicking a. Button that I thought was not
57:12
on. Cool.
57:14
I'm picking it three times and I'm like why it looks like it's
57:17
not? Cool down.
57:17
Oh my God, that is so that it's So what?
57:20
Half of these logs are just like the.
57:24
Hot looks open. Why isn't the hot going?
57:27
And then I see that. We didn't even talk about they
57:32
they announced after we've recorded last week the dinars
57:36
and the increase to the item level, the gear Palooza uncapped
57:41
crests, war bound valor stones we're.
57:44
Going to talk the entire housing thing, right?
57:46
Yeah, we can talk about that next week, 'cause that was then
57:49
it actually will be out, right? The first, the Gira Palooza,
57:52
starts next week, doesn't it? There's no, it's the 14th.
57:54
Never mind. We'll prime people.
57:56
We'll get them real excited by talking.
57:58
About all the information they need to get into it and a whole
58:01
lot of me being like no guys no anyways.
58:04
I think ultimately though, I do just Manny was just about to say
58:08
goodbye. Ultimately, I I think maybe I'm
58:12
wrong, but I feel like the general take away from the
58:15
Wowcast today was that things the future could be bright like
58:20
they are they the more that is in the game naturally or
58:24
natively is better for new players will be better for
58:27
players who aren't already using add-ons and it should only
58:31
improve performance. Like I assume Blizzard's going
58:35
to optimize better than who? That's a big that is a.
58:39
I assume he's doing a lot of work though.
58:41
We. Did 11 point 1.5, I can
58:43
understand everybody's faith being shaken, but like I was
58:46
actually going to log, sign us off or say say that.
58:51
What I was going to say is the one part of this conversation
58:54
that we haven't talked about is actually that I don't expect
58:58
these add-ons to be as powerful as the third party add-ons.
59:04
And that is going to be by design.
59:06
They are doing this so that the tools you have are less
59:10
effective, which means that they can do less threatening
59:14
mechanics. You're not easier.
59:17
Yeah. And like that's they sound
59:21
genuinely. Said they don't want to do that.
59:23
They want to make it less complex.
59:24
Yes, still challenging. Less complex.
59:27
Yeah, right. But like, it just means that
59:29
like I know, but like, I'm sorry, I know it's it's nice
59:33
flowery language to say less complex, right?
59:36
But I do mean easier. And the reason I say easier is
59:40
because a get out of dodge in in .5 seconds.
59:45
I need something to let me know that that's happening and just
59:50
air horns and everything so that I'm moving before it comes down.
59:54
Get out of dodge in two seconds. I don't need those air horns.
59:58
I can get out of dodge and react on my own in that time.
1:00:02
And that's a big component of what they're they're doing.
1:00:04
They're going to like this isn't just a de escalation in that
1:00:07
we're not going to do certain mechanics.
1:00:09
It's that the mechanics that they are going to do don't need
1:00:12
to be as split second reactionary or like you need to
1:00:17
have some sort of like. Prognosis of like, hey, we need
1:00:22
you to go exactly here and you to go to these coordinates and
1:00:25
you to go these coordinates so that everybody else can stack in
1:00:28
this in this pixel square so that we can survive this
1:00:31
mechanic. He played echo of an authorian.
1:00:36
That was the boss that we ended on in our mythic in our mythic
1:00:39
question back when my team was doing mythic is no fairy was
1:00:42
just like, yeah, we're done for this decent friends.
1:00:45
I know what boss you're describing for.
1:00:50
Right. And so I think that, yeah, just
1:00:55
playable by humans, or as Sean would say, playable by mortal
1:00:59
men, yeah, is. Give the normies a chance.
1:01:02
Give the normies right is where I'd like to see the game even at
1:01:06
the mythic level right And that's what I think this this is
1:01:10
if you can bring the add-ons that can help people step up to
1:01:14
the organized level and you can squelch the add-ons so that the
1:01:19
the highest doesn't require inhuman precision and.
1:01:23
You can make that not have to press 1 button all day and
1:01:25
pretend that that's playing a video game.
1:01:28
And I think that that makes all the content far more accessible.
1:01:31
You don't need the computational power to power all these things
1:01:36
in the best computer to like make sure your frame rate never
1:01:38
drops below this right while running all these extra
1:01:42
processes. And you've got the help to get
1:01:45
you into the organized level. And I think that's a big thing
1:01:48
about accessibility there. But with that, I am going to end
1:01:52
this episode because we have been going and yes, we have a
1:01:55
lot to talk about in the future. So World Warcraft is looking
1:01:58
bright. Until next time, though, may all
1:02:00
your hits be kids.